Tom Aspinall: The UFC Doesn't Want You To Know This! Jon Jones Wasn't Living Like An Athlete!

0:00 I'm the number one heavyweight in the world right now, and I'm scared to fight everybody. What about John Jones? I'd be an idiot otherwise. But now that I understand fear and what it does for me, it just fuels me so much in a way that nothing else can. So I'll be prepared to do whatever I need to do. But I just don't like what he's doing because I can't function knowing that I trained for a fight and didn't actually fight somebody. John Jones is officially retired. Tom Aspinall is the heavyweight champion of the UFC. Did you see this coming?

0:29 And do you have any idea when you'll be back in the octagon? I do, yeah, yeah. Um, you're the only ever British heavyweight champion of the UFC. So what advice can you give young men that are struggling to find that sense of purpose? It takes years to become an overnight success. I've been going since I was eight years old and I've been up against so many tests from career ending injuries to financial struggles to mental struggles, and at one point we had three kids at the age of twenty five, and I had no money. I mean my first profile at 200 quid. I felt the pressure trying to be a young guy but having all this responsibility on me. Having to borrow money from friends to find out piece for my kids so I could keep living on this dream. But Outlasting people and consistency is massively underrated. And in today's day and age, people just have a lot of options, but that obsessiveness of being 100% focused on something, you win. Tom, there's this black box in front of me, which contains something which represents a pivotal moment in your career. What is the story behind this?

1:26 It was the most devastating thing that happened in my whole career. So ahead of showing you that interview which we recorded a while ago, I wanted to call Tom and get his first reaction to the news that he's now the UFC's undisputed heavyweight champion of the world. So what I'm about to show you is a conversation I had with Tom Hours after the news was announced that he's now the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world. And then I'm gonna play the long form interview that me and Tom had several weeks ago, right here in the studio. Enjoy. Quick one before we get back to this episode. Just give me thirty seconds of your time.

1:59 Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us, and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here. Please join the twenty four percent of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm gonna make to you. I'm gonna do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're gonna deliver the guest that you want me to speak to, and we're gonna continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show.

2:36 Thank you. Tom, did you um Did you see this coming? Uh Yes.

2:45 But I just didn't expect it. Um When it happened. I expected it. So next week I'm going to Vegas. I'm going for The Well they they say it's the biggest fight card of the year, uh a fight card called International Fight Week.

2:59 And I knew that I had some news coming. On international fight week. We got wind that John Jones is gonna retire. And then they're gonna announce it on international fight week, but for some reason they announced it um Last night.

3:11 I don't know what that reason is. It took me by surprise at least. Um, but they announced it last night. What was your initial honest gut reaction when you found out he was retiring? Where were you? What was your first feeling when you heard that news? Well, I only knew a hundred percent actually last night. It was always like rumours Of him retiring. He's putting stuff out on the media saying that he's retiring.

3:35 'Cause MMA especially at an elite level is quite There's not many people. Like you you hear rumors a lot. So I heard rumors from people close to him that he's gonna retire and that he's not living. Like an athlete. Um who's fighting at the top level anymore and that he's not interested and he's not in the gym and et cetera.

3:51 But I knew that there was gonna be a decision made by the US C coming soon, whether he's gonna continue and Um We got it last night for sure. We we finally got it confirmed last night, so I am uh very happy to get

4:04 This part of my career. Behind me in the rear view mirror now. But but how did you feel? Because I think y from the conversation we had, which we're gonna play in a second. It was clear to me that you wanted

4:16 To have John Jones on your record. You wanted to fight him. What I really want is it is the undisputed title. That's really what I was chasing the whole time. I was never really chasing one guy. John Jones was always just a bonus because of the store'cause of the resume that he's got and'cause of the name that he has and the the status that it holds within the within the sport, like he's so well respected. I think that would have been a great

4:37 Scalp. For me to have On my resume. But uh ultimately I was chasing the belt. I was chasing being the number one heavyweight fighter in the world, which uh I am, and I can say that I am now, especially with John not around and he's retired and that's behind us, but Um

4:51 Ultimately the thing that I wanted really was was the belt. The fact that John's left the sport Obviously it would have been better for me career wise to have that name. financially it would have been great as well, but Um the thing that I was ultimately chasing. was uh

5:05 The heavyweight title. And how do you think about John's decision? Do y do you view it as a strategic dodge or do you view it as a genuine sort of closing of that chapter In his uh Of his legacy.

5:20 I think that he's entitled to do whatever he wants. To be honest. I'm not um He's done way more in the sport than I have, so He should do whatever he feels is right.

5:29 It uh speaking as as just a a fighter, yeah. If it was s if it was so public. For me personally, I don't know if my ego could take it. Having not done it. Um but that's that's honestly that's

5:43 His progressive. I don't hold any ill will against him for it. And I'm I'm happy to move on with my career now that it's over because you got to remember I've not fought F Nearly a year now because of this. And I've been healthy the whole time. I've been in the gym the whole time. I've been doing exactly what I'm supposed to do as a high level operating athlete.

6:04 at the elite level. So I'm glad that that is behind us now. Do you in part I guess take this as a bit of a compliment that there was such huge public pressure for him to fight you? And actually the route that he chose was to retire instead of fighting you. I mean that's quite a compliment for someone of John Jones' stature. Uh

6:24 I try not to let my ego take control. Of me? Um, I could see why people would think that. But to me it's just like Maybe when I've retired I'll cons when I've retired myself, which is not gonna happen.

6:35 In the next couple of years at least. Um, I'll think about that kind of stuff. But for right now it's just like We've gotta focus on another fight. We've gotta get me active. We've gotta get me back out there and doing what doing what I'm supposed to be doing. 'Cause right now I've been thinking about that whole situation and being held up and frustrated for almost a year. And it's not

6:52 It's what I love doing. I've been I've been held back for the whole time and it's not been very fun, to be honest with you. So My the the ego side of my brain is like Yeah, I've kinda beaten without fighting him. And I did say that. I've said that the whole time that I'm gonna retire him without fighting him. Uh, but I don't kinda wanna harp harp on about that really. I wanna kinda just put that behind me.

7:11 I move forward on my own path now. I hear. And you know, John Jones is a an unpredictable individual. So there's still a possibility that that retirement wasn't a legit retirement and that he might get a bit bored and end up, you know, deciding that he wants to come back and fight you. Is that something that you would consider if that were to happen? I'm sure with where he's at.

7:31 He can like jump the queue. Any time he wants. So You know, this time of year down the line. We'll have another.

7:38 three or four contenders knocking on for a title shot, I'm sure. But any time someone like him wants to step up and say, Listen, I wanna fight again, they're gonna get an immediate title shot. So Uh, I'm never gonna count that out and I'm sure that Maybe he's you know, I'm in a sp in my career where there's not all that much footage out there on me. Maybe he sees something on me in the next few fights and he thinks, You know what, I can beat this guy. I'm gonna come back and beat him. So mentally I'm never counting that out. I think

8:04 the the the fight is always it could always pop back up and come back around on me, so Uh, that's something that I would obviously accept. But as I said before, I think a lot of people get it confused over the last kind of ten months ish. Is that I was chasing John Jones. That was never the case. I was chasing the the undisputed heavyweight title. That's it. So

8:23 If I ca if I do get the opportunity to put John Jones on my resume, of course I'll I'll accept that with open arms, but if not I'm content, I'll move forward and I'll uh create my own legacy without him. And what what ch has changed overnight? Is there as a UFC fan, is there anything that I'm unaware of that changes when Dana announces you as the undisputed? Does your contract change? Does Does uh is there anything that changes?

8:47 Other than the fact that you've now got a sort of a clear path and you're now the one being chased. You're no longer chasing Well, I was on uh'cause I was an interim cha I was a champion in my own right as well. So I o I I was already getting A lot of the uh a lot of the perks that come with being a champion.

9:03 Stuff like paper view points is something that you get. When you're champion. You also can you know. Uh pay per view points is where you get a cut of the pay per view sales. Okay.

9:12 So I don't want to go into the details of my contracts, of course, but you'll get if someone pays, you know, sixty dollars for a pay per view. you might get two dollars, you might get five dollars per bar, you might get ten people different people have different um different perks and the contract. So I I was already having that'cause I was a I was a champion in my own right anyway. But yeah, not nothing actually really changes, just the fact that There isn't two belts anymore in the division, which is great. There's one face, one name.

9:38 And one guy in in the division and to me that is what That's what separates uh MMA from other sports. Other other fight sports, at least, is that, for example, in boxing you can have like five, six, seven, eight, even sometimes different.

9:52 organization, you got the WBO, the WBC, the IBO, the IBF, and all these different ones that I don't even know about. And they all have different champions in each organization. Whereas generally speaking The number one guy in the world is the UFC champion and

10:09 Before John Jones retired, there was two of us in the division, which is a little bit of a strange Strange conundrum that I wasn't comfortable being in. I think that there should be one guy in every division and uh now that j John's gone, obviously we didn't get to Fight about it, which I would have liked. Um but at least there's one guy and um

10:27 I'm I'm happy with that moving forward. And who's the who's the number one contender now? You're now being chased, right? You you were doing a little bit of chasing in terms of trying to get that um unified, but But who in your mind is the number one contender now for the heavyweight Title Bell. Oh that's uh

10:43 That's I'm I'm more than happy being chased. That's fantastic. I w I would rather be. The hunted as opposed to the hunter, because I've I've been chasing I I don't like chasing fights. I like just being the guy and everyone comes to me, that's fantastic. So most of the I've actually fought a lot of the top ten. Um One of the guys I've not fought is uh Cyril Gan a French guy. That's a a fight that I was look I was actually chasing that fight a few times before.

11:07 He was he was ducking and diving around himself a little bit, so he is due a little bit of a beating off me. I look forward to that. Um Couple more guys down the rankings. A Brazilian guy, Jelton Almeida, I've not fought. There's a a guy I've already beat called uh Alexander Volkov, who's doing really well for himself as well, so

11:25 Who knows, you never know in the heavyweight division. There's a couple of up and coming guys who have not mentioned as well. So there's some some good fights to be made over the next couple of years for sure. If I were to say myself it'd be great to see you fight gone. You know In London or in the UK somewhere. Um as your next fight. Did you have any idea what you're doing next and when you'll be

11:44 Back in the octagon. I do. But I also want to keep I also want to keep my job. So I'd there's not much I can say on it, to be honest. Um but yeah. Yeah, we're gonna be fighting hopefully twice this year.

11:59 That's that's my point, at least. I think I think I've wasted enough time. Um Now so Um, we're looking for a quick We're look we're looking to get a fight booked.

12:08 quick on and it's looking like it's gonna be You know. Pretty soon anyway. Um, and then hopefully If everything goes well in the first one. um uninjured, which is

12:18 You know, it's easier said than done, uh getting through a fight. with it with a guy my size and and coming out with no injuries. But um if I if I can do that, I would like to fight at the end of the year as well. That'd be perfect. And uh are you off to training now? Are you you're flying out to Vegas? So I'm assuming you're you're going to the UFC center out there and starting training. No, so I'm I'm trading. Constantly, regardless if I've got a fight or not. The only thing that changes for me is basically intensity in uh

12:46 In the sessions, but I'm actually going to Vegas for well I am the heavyweight champion of the world, so they're gonna want me at the big shows. Uh so I'm gonna I'm gonna be showing my face there, doing a little bit of media and stuff. I will, of course, be doing a little bit of training. You know, just different stuff. I've working with a new sponsor who I'm gonna be with till the end of my career, which is champion. So I'll be working with them out there and Uh, just doing bits for the UFC meeting fans and and doing bits of training, just being around the scene and i I don't often to be honest, I'm so Routine and

13:15 I'm so routine based and goal focused that I don't like to leave My home routine and training regiment. That often so uh when I go to the US and do things like this, I like to do as much in a short space of time as possible so I can get back to my uh'cause I know what I know what I need to do to To be good and to win fights. And uh

13:35 That's be at home and be in my routine and and be focused. So I don't like to leave my routine too much and go overseas and do all this other stuff. So I'll be killing as many birds with one stone in this trip as possible. You're um you're a family man. Uh Tom, I I got a s real understanding of that in the conversation that I'm about to play. Um, your family very close to you, your father. What's the reaction been like with your your partner, your your your kids, your your father, your your parents? Over the last couple of hours since you've been crowned as the undisputed.

14:04 Uh, to be honest, um, it didn't really make much of a difference. I think a lot of people said the same thing outside of my family as well. It was like you were kinda the champion anyway.'Cause I think the way that John Jones played it the last year or so, it just didn't A l a lot of people didn't see him as the the unified heavyweight champion anyway. So I th I think a lot of people close to me like I told my kids this morning they were just like not bothered at all. Didn't make the slightest bit of difference. I said look, I'm only telling you So when your friends tell you at school, you'll know and they're like, Okay, fair enough. That that was it. There was no there was no great reaction there.

14:41 What did you say to him? Well it was just my my it's mainly my oldest son because my My twins, they're a little bit too young to really understand. They've just turned six, so they don't really get it. But my oldest son's nine, almost. Um his friends. A follow in the MA a little bit more, so he kinda is starting thinking it's cool now. So I told my son I was like, listen

14:59 And just let you know, John Jones retired. I'm the undisputed champion now. I've got you know, the there's one And he was just like, Oh Okay.

15:07 And I was like, I'm just I'm not that bothered. I'm just letting you know, so if your friends say anything, you know. And he was like, Okay. Thanks. John's probably watching this. Has undoubtedly.

15:18 had one of the greatest careers in the history of the UFC up there with the likes of Kabib and many of the legends through history. What would you say to him? If he was watching this now. That's g it's a great question. I I don't I don't know if he will be watching this, I'm not sure, but if it if he is

15:35 Uh, I think he's had an amazing career. And I think he should enjoy the rest of his life. I think if he if he truly feels like he's done enough, which He keeps saying that he does.

15:46 He will be at peace. He doesn't need me or anybody else to tell him. uh how good he's done. He should he he'll know it himself, so Uh I hope that he's He's enjoying his life, he's enjoying his family, and he's celebrating his career'cause it's been amazing.

16:01 Tom, uh congratulations. I think uh I speak on behalf of a lot of Brits and really people all around the world when I say that um you're the champion I think the UFC, especially at the the heavyweight division, has really been longing for. Someone who wants to be active, someone who is um Seeking the biggest fights, someone who is willing to fight anybody, but also someone that's just really, really relatable and I think sends a message to all of all of us that. What I'd class as a very

16:28 normal guy from humble beginnings can reach the very Top of the professional um pyramid as it relates to sports and entertainment. So thank you so much for uh representing the UK in uh UF in the UFC, especially at the heavyweight level, which we've never had before. But I will all be rooting for you, uh for so many reasons, because of who you are, but also because of the exciting way that you've um conducted yourself in and outside of the octagon. So I'm gonna let you go. Um we're gonna play the interview now that we recorded a little while ago.

16:56 But um yeah, gonna be watching your career very, very closely and um gonna be ringside whenever you fight next. Uh I know there's a lot of people that are gonna turn out to support you. So Thank you so much, Tom. Thank you very much for having me. And uh If you're there, as always. 'Cause we know each other now and I know it's difficult when you know somebody personally.

17:15 Um A any time I fight, you gotta strap in. Be ready for anything because it's heavyweight ermate at the highest level and Anything can happen, so Thank you for having me, Steven, and I look forward to uh to seeing you there. Thank you.

17:32 I'd met you when you were A kid. And I'd ask you. What you want to be when you're older?

17:40 What would you have said to me? Well, it depends on the age, of course. But I think if you were to ask me from The age of being Nine years old and above.

17:52 I would have said that I'm gonna be UFC heavyweight jumping. At nine years old. Yeah. As soon as I kinda like Went to a gym. And I realised

18:02 There's people in this gym. Who are adults. And they don't have a regular job. And they're just showing up to the gym every day. And fighting every few months and getting money for it.

18:12 Well, I was I was literally Like this is what I want to do. So take me back. So where do you where do you come from? For someone that doesn't know who you are, they don't know your story, they don't know Tom Aspinall's origin. Where'd you come from?

18:26 Um, so I'm from a place I was born in Salford, which is like Greater Manchester, and then I moved to a different part of Greater Manchester, a place called Allison. There's not a lot of p stuff going on there, to be honest. I mean, it's just uh like a normal Working class blue collar. place. Do you know what I mean? A lot a lot of Families like the parents.

18:46 Working factories, they Mechanics, they Plummers. And what were your family? In that context.

18:55 So My dad originally worked in IT. He got paid some redundancy money. And then he decided to Start teaching grappling full time.

19:06 Which We're talking when we're talking like twenty years ago. The grappling industry in the UK was non existent. And obviously I was quite a

19:17 I was a buddin. But I wasn't I wasn't even like a budding prospect at the time. I dad had no fights at the time. But I was training and I was enjoying my training and my dad wanted to spend more time perfecting me to Help me do what I enjoy a little bit more. Well how how come your dad knew how About grappling.

19:33 Because he he's been into like martial arts for as like a lifetime as well. So was he the inspiration for you to go to the gym the first time and start training or? So it's difficult to say because I had like a bit of a blurred line as to where I started. actually train in martial arts. So I started training when I was young.

19:51 But it was my dance thing more. And I just used to go with my dad, like to spend some time with my dad and'cause I didn't really have much else to do. But I used to always go down to the gym and when I started training, there were no like kids' classes. Like now you can go to the end of the road. And there'll be an MMA gym with kids' classes on with twenty kids in the class. Like that wasn't my case when I started at eight, nine years old. Like I used to go to the gym. There used to be 10, 40 year old guys rolling around on the floor with each other. And I just used to jump in when there was a smaller guy available. Otherwise I'd just be like kicking the football around the gym or something like that. Like basically I've grown up in in gym. But when I actually started training seriously.

20:28 That was probably when I was like fourteen, thirteen, fourteen, something like that. And was there ever a moment in those early years where You realized or someone said something to you that you can still remember that proved to you that you We're better than normal people at this thing.

20:43 I do remember a few instances. Like I said, I used to train with adults even when I was a child. Um I was quite aware. Even from being young. that the adults were like taking it easy on me.

20:55 You know, like they were letting me get position and letting me do certain things on'em and they weren't really trying as much. I'm uh I remember feeling like

21:06 The adults are starting Going harder on me. Do you if that makes sense. Does that make sense? Like I remember I used to just have all my own way in training because the adults a lot of the time were like my dad's friends and his students and then they would alwa I would always be around the gym so they'd know me and they'd take it easy and stuff like that. And then I remember like a couple of the couple of the guys who I trained with, like I said, I was like eleven, twelve years old.

21:29 And I remember a couple of the guys like It became a lot. more physical training, like it became a lot more competitive, whereas before they were just like letting me do my thing and Then they started fighting back a little bit more. And then I remember thinking, Ah, well, I must be all right. Like if they're if they're trying. I remember realizing that people actually started trying against me and then they finish around and look like They'd done a work out a little bit rather than just played with a kid, if that makes sense.

21:53 And was that Mm. I'm trying to figure out as well the the thing that encouraged you to keep going at that point, because at that age you can end up playing football, you can end up going and joining this club, you can end up focusing on some drama class that you're doing, but there must have been something that kinda held you in this habit. I mean I've definitely tried all that stuff. I definitely um I mean my area's like quite a big rugby area.

22:14 So like Rugby Lee we play up there and Uh I definitely delved in that a little bit, but yeah, I just never really was my thing, you know. I think 'Cause my dad and my brother was heavily involved with martial arts and

22:27 That's just where I always felt like safe. To a degree, he's like in the gym. I know it sounds really weird. But I felt like when you're involved in martial arts it's almost like there can be ten guys in the room. And they can all be from different backgrounds.

22:41 Male, female. One guy can be twelve years old, the other guy can be sixty five years old. One guy's retired, the other guy's at college. One guy's black, the other guy's Chinese. It doesn't matter, like when you're in there. It does none of that matters and everyone just respects each other.

22:55 and gets on regardless of like race, gender, age What the job is and it none of that stuff matters. Everyone just respects each other the same. And I was always like drawn to that. More than anything, I was alwa that's why I always felt my most comfortable, and especially'cause I was a bit more of a shy kid. I felt like I could really express myself.

23:15 through martial arts and something else about martial arts is like'cause it's an individual sport. It's like always on you. If you do well or not. And I realised like the more time I put in, the more I got out of it. Like

23:30 Mentally and physically. Like I will get better. The more I did it, whereas With teams balls. Especially rugby because that's a team sport I've done the most.

23:39 Like there would be games where I personally Hub Hub like an amazing game. But the team had lost. And I could see the next guy

23:49 not trying as hard as me. Or sometimes vice versa. Sometimes they'd You know, I'd I'd had a terrible game, but the team would won and everyone would be really happy and I'd be like I had a bad game and I couldn't I could never shake that. I'd always like wanna I always liked control. Control. Yeah. Being in charge of like

24:06 My own thing that MMA in particular is very much that it's like If you're not putting the work in, like you will get exposed. You will get your ego checked literally on a daily basis if you're not doing what you need to do. And I love that, like it gives you a sense of like accountability for Just your everyday habits. Like your thought process, what you're putting in your body.

24:28 How much recovery you get in? How many reps are you doing in the gym? Everything, like everything. is accounted for. Publicly. And I quite like that. I quite love that actually.

24:38 Um, your mother in this picture, where does she fit into this picture you've painted for me? And who is she? Uh sh first of all. She is the nicest woman. that's ever walked the face of the earth. I think she is such a lovely person. Yeah. There is literally you know when someone says the term oh she's not got oh they've not got a bad bone in the body that literally applies to my mom, but as far as So my last fight that I had, which was in Manchester, my home my hometown.

25:02 That was the first fight that my mum's ever been to. And I'm already like number one in the world. I'm like, Huddy hell, Mom, you've lived it this long. But yeah, she she is she just stays away from the MMA side of things. She's just uh a mum, which is great. That's amazing. She is really, really Uh lovely. Person. Why was that the first fight she'd ever come to?

25:23 'Cause it's scary. And I You didn't want her to come or No, it's not no it's not that I didn't want her to I I was It's never been like her thing. So I would never like be like, Oh Mum, can you please come because I know it's

25:36 I know like firsthand. Even from like teammates. fighting how scary it is for me to be in attendance. So I would never like drag along someone who loves me because it's it's horrendous, to be honest with you. Like it's such a unpredictable sport that You just

25:52 Never know, so But I think my mum came because I was like look, mum I don't wanna tell you to come or not come. But this is probably the only time I'm ever gonna fight in Manchester. Like I don't know how many fights I've got left. And I'm on I'm under the notion that I would rather retire.

26:10 Little bit too early than a little bit too late because I've seen the way people get late in the career and I don't I don't want to be like that. So I'm not saying I'm gonna retire any time soon, but I'm just saying like Most of my fights are in the US now. And I don't think you'll ever have a chance to see me fight live again.

26:26 So I think you should come to this one and uh She came and Apparently she enjoyed it. Um as you're talking about the role that's not a little bit more. martial arts has played in your life, it got me thinking about

26:37 About young men in general, because young men in general seem to be really struggling at the moment when we look at a lot of the statistics around like suicidal ideation and purposelessness and Um It made me As you were speaking, I was like Damn, I need to do martial arts.

26:52 If there is y young men listening to this that are struggling in their lives in any way. w what advice would you give them in terms of martial arts or Those early life decisions or even later life decisions about

27:05 You know, Something that they can do to find that sense of purpose that you so clearly found. I mean, let me first of all start by saying I would be completely lost. without it. I think everybody should do it, honestly, because I think that Well it puts your ego in check massively.

27:22 Because you constantly like every time you step onto a matter train. You're getting a you're getting hit in the face with reality constantly. Um If you haven't been Like for me it's like you're getting hit in the face with reality and if you're not consistent.

27:36 That reality will hit ya. Harder and harder each time. So it creates a sense of like purpose in your life. Scar it's not it's not fear.

27:48 But it's like You don't want to miss. because you don't want to get hit with the reality. Like you don't want to be inconsistent with your training. Because you don't want it. be hit harder by the reality next time you go. If that makes sense. Makes perfect sense. I just think that it gives you just a massive structure.

28:04 in your life. And not only that, not not to mention the stuff like No. I'm not gonna sit here and talk about crime rates or anything like that because I don't know the the statistics. But I know that in this country especially Crime is pretty high right now.

28:18 Mm-hmm. So my friend who's come with me is upstairs, Charlie. He does my social media. And He's also a close close friend of mine as well. And

28:27 He's a similar age to me, he's thirty two. And he's literally just started training. Because I literally said to him. Uh Charlie. I say this to everybody who's not involved in martial arts.

28:39 If you need to, and I'm not saying you need to be a world champion, you need to train every But you need to have a general idea. of how to defend yourself if it ever happens. Like you you don't need to be good. You don't need to Have a fight. You don't need to be preparing to fight someone in a ring and a cage or whatever. But I think everybody should be comfortable with a general idea of how to defend themselves if they need to. Whether that be if you own a house

29:03 If you have children. If you have a girlfriend or a boyfriend or whatever, if you have somebody who you might need to protect who can't protect the self or something that you might need to protect. You need to have some kind of idea. on on how to protect that, in my that's that's my opinion. Um Because

29:21 Fighting's a scary thing. At the best it's like I'm the number one heavyweight in the world right now, and I'm scared to fight somebody. So Like I wouldn't like to be completely clueless. Because it must be so scary and I think that it would be re I I would recommend it to anybody of any age to do some kind of martial arts.

29:39 So there's a couple things you said there which I'm most certainly gonna Ask you about. The first thing you said was about how martial arts brings The consequence of like a lack of discipline. Up close, but also increases the consequence. And it was I was thinking as you were saying that, I was thinking, Oh my God, this is so true, because if I

29:56 If I may eighteen year old guy and I'm sat at this on the sofa at home doing nothing with my life. The consequence of that is quite hard to see in the short term. What you're saying is by doing martial arts, the consequence becomes weakly and becomes you're gonna get your fucking nose broken. Yeah. So

30:12 So that's motivating to get your get your life together. And then the other thing you said is I'm the number one in the world and even I'm scared to fight somebody. Okay. Who? Yeah. Everybody. I don't wanna fight anybody.

30:24 I don't I mean, I'm I wanna fight professionally, I love doing that. But I mean as far as like uh a confrontation with somebody. That's the last thing I was trying to do. I don't wanna do that with anybody. So you weren't saying that you're scared to fight a particular person. Well, yeah, yeah. I mean

30:37 Yeah, I'm scared to fight everybody. Yeah, and I think that That for for Professional combat athletes.

30:46 across the board, whether that's boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, MA, whatever you're into. I think that's like a very, very uh taboo subject. is like fear. 'cause everybody wants to be this like big m like I'm a friggin' six foot five.

31:01 Hundred and fifteen kilo. Guy with like cauliflower ears and everything, like tattoos of the whole lot. It's pretty difficult to sit here and say like I'm scared to fight anybody. Um Like have that and be and be

31:13 Literally the number one heavyweight in the world. But kinda the realisation of the fear that I've got. Now that I understand fear and what it is and what it does for me. It just fuels me so much to do what I do. In MMA we have terms like

31:29 A gym warrior, people call it. Like a someone who spars in the gym really, really well. And then they get under the lights. And they don't fight anywhere near. what they do in the gym. Now generally speaking That is because they don't understand fear properly.

31:45 And I think I've got in a place where I completely understand That fear fuels me. in a way that nothing else can feel me and I'm completely comfortable with it. I'm super intrigued by this. So I wanna talk about this. Um This idea of fear, but also the journey that you've been on with fear. Yeah.

32:03 So have you always been Fearful to find people. Yeah, and I think But if you know You either lying to yourself or you're a complete idiot.

32:12 Yeah. I think I think If you are gonna sit in an arena And the arena's packed to the rims with twenty plus thousand people. And there's another guy over the other side of the arena. waiting to fight you who's trained for the last ten weeks, and you've got to meet'em in the center of the octagon with millions of people watching around the world.

32:32 and know that you can get separated from your own consciousness. Are you not scared? You're either lying to yourself or you're just a complete idiot. Yeah. With your mum watching for the first time,

32:43 Yeah, I mean I see you guys do the walkouts and I'm just like Wow. Yeah, it's crazy.

32:55 It's hard to ever comment on someone being good or bad at something that it takes that much courage to do, that I've clearly not demonstrated in my own life. So So fear. So you've always been scared to You've always had fear when face with an opponent. But you also alluded to the fact that there's work that you've done. To overcome that fear or to e put it into perspective, I guess. Yeah. What's that work?

33:16 The the gym warrior. And the guy who's under the lights is can be two different people, and I've seen it a lot. all over the years I've seen it so much. Um Still see it now, still see it all the time. See when you train, this is this is my personal opinion, this is not facts, but this is my personal opinion.

33:33 I would say the training aspect is probably around eighty percent physical. And twenty percent mental, the training aspect. On fight night. When you are in that arena. And you are you have got them bright lights beaming down on you.

33:47 And you can hear the crowd going crazy and you know that there's millions of people watching you. You've got them tiny gloves on. There's another massive guy stood across me with his shirt off. I believe It completely flips. And becomes about eighty.

34:01 Plus percent mental. I remember somebody, I actually can't remember who it was, it might have even been on a podcast or something. Saying look, we spend all this time Preparing physically because to be an MMA fighter, you have to dedicate a lot of time, and I mean a lot of time to preparing physically. So that that can be Yeah, train around about

34:20 Between three and five hours a day, possibly f on the physical training, and that's not to mention the stretching. The eating, the sleeping, the physio. the saunas, the all the other stuff that comes with becoming a good athlete. So I'm probably dedicating a solid Most of the twenty four hours a day, if you're gonna

34:39 count sleeping as well, which I believe is a part of being a professional athlete. is dedicated to me becoming the best version and athlete of myself as possible. Now you're dedicating all that time to training. Physically. How much are you dedicating to Mental.

34:57 Um If you had asked Mulsefiers. Especially at the top level. You're talking top ten guys in the world. What do you think is the most important aspect, the physical side or the mental side? I will guarantee at least fifty percent of them guys. Would say the mental side.

35:11 No If you compare in mental and physical. We're spending this much time On the physical. But this much time on the mental side, next to nothing.

35:21 And uh I could say A massive discrepancy. In that and I wanted to Bring the bring the mental side up.

35:29 So you're in the mental gym too. All the time. And what is that? A lot of uh a lot of visualization. Okay. So talk me through this. Give me I want as much detail as possible. Okay. Okay.

35:39 So I work with a hypnotherapist, which I think is very important. Yep. I write stuff down. I have stuff. Where I can see it.

35:49 I'll look at that a lot. Even stuff like I'm just a massive daydreamer. Massive daydreamer. And

35:58 I can just see in my mind clearly. This is something that's programmed into me for years and years. Um it's almost like mental see in MA we we have a term and I don't know if this goes across the board, but we call it drilling. So like if there's a technique if you're practicing like a want to. And you're doing it repeatedly.

36:15 You call it drilling. You drill in a one two. Drilling is like repetition, repetition. I like mentally drill. situation. So when you're talking about the walk out, when I'm physically walking out

36:28 Mentally I've walked out. ten thousand times before I've actually physic walked out. So by the time I'm there physically I've been there so many times mentally that it feels quite Quite normal to me. And then

36:41 I constantly tell myself that I gotta enjoy it. because I'm completely aware now, especially. I'm closer to the end than I am the beginning now. Definitely. I don't know when I'm gonna retire. I have no plans to retire right now, but I'm definitely close to the end then and the beginning. And

36:56 The moments that we have. These walk out moments. these fear moments of being stood in the cage with another guy who stood in the cage with me. And we know that Once these officials get out of the ring and they close that cage, we are gonna fight. And someone

37:10 he's gonna win or someone's gonna lose. Like those are really special moments and you have to enjoy'em. Because When I'm sixty years old, and hopefully I've got grandkids and I can I wanna be telling them about these special moments and I not wishing'em away and really, really enjoying them and That's something that

37:27 Mentally. I try and practice. being in the moment and enjoying it a lot. And I feel like a lot of fighters, they just they're just so stressed about the end result that they can't even focus on enjoying the self and they're right now. And I know for me personally, When I'm enjoying myself, that's when I do my best.

37:46 So I wanna enjoy myself. I wanna talk to you about a few things you said there. You talked about Visualization was what you mentioned first, and writing things down. What kind of things do you write down? And like what what's your pro your whole process there?'Cause I'm sure there's people at home that would love to understand some of these practices so that they can implement them in their own life. And then also speak to the the value that it's brought to your life doing these kind of things. You talk about visualization.

38:08 People think about this like weird woo woo kind of thing, sit sitting there with crystals on you and weird music and meditation. It's not like that. It's as simple as getting a piece of paper, writing down This week I will do this and enjoy it. As simple as that. That that's all I do.

38:26 This year. I will win two fights. I will enjoy both of'em and I will perform to my best. Mm. Just reading it every so often.

38:33 And how often do you do that? Is it something you do at the start of the year or is it just like sporadically really. I'm not it's not something I I'm not the kind of guy who goes right. beginning of the year, this is my uh visualization board or anything like that. Not that there's anything wrong with that. That's just not what I do personally. I just write when I feel like writing stuff, I'll write it and most of the time I've got it in my bedside table or I've got it somewhere that I can see it and

38:56 I'll pick it up. I'll read it. A few times the same sentence. I put it down and I feel like it's in there. I wrote recently the

39:04 things are working for me. Because I'm in a really weird situation with my career that I've never really been before. Where um There's a lot of politics involved. In my my kinda next move.

39:17 John Jones. Yeah, I think I said to you like off camera is like usually it's like right Get off for the fight. What was the fight? Fight. Fight's over.

39:26 A little bit downtime. Another fight, work towards that fight over, blah blah blah. Whereas now I'm just kind of like a little bit in limbo. When I don't know what's happening. And I'm just like

39:36 Usually I'm used to like having my life mapped out as to when I need to dedicate more time to this and how much uh what training partners come in there and what I need to focus on. But now I'm just a l in a little bit limbo where I don't know really what's going on. And I wanted to really write down just to solidify that. All this is happening.

39:57 when you are in those kind of situations, I know me personally I start to Like conspire in my own like that everyone's conspiring against me. Like, oh, this is not working out for me. And I start thinking negatively, but I think sometimes you just gotta write down like

40:11 This is gonna be all right. Like this is the whatever's happening right now, I don't know what it is. I don't know. I can't fix it personally,'cause it's nothing to do with me. But I know that's gonna work it's gonna end up all right and it's gonna work out for me, so couple of weeks ago I remember just writing that down. Putting it in the

40:25 Thing next to my bed. And uh sometimes when I'm waking up I feel in a bit stressed, I'll just read it, put it away, and then that's it. So at any moment, maybe today, maybe now, maybe your phone upstairs could have a text message on it from Dana White saying Where did it go? Yeah, pretty much. I am now like

40:41 Training. I'm I mean I'm always training anyway. training's a massive part of my life, but I could get a text at any moment telling me I'm gonna fight in six weeks and that would be amazing. Um it would be the biggest fight of all time. Yeah, but I don't think that's gonna happen because they are giving it that It's the definitely, in my opinion. There's a few massive fights to be made at the moment in MMA.

41:02 Uh but I think as far as Thirst from fans. Mm. This is the one that people want to see the most. Um When I say that, does it make you nervous?

41:12 Uh everything I just said, and when I said it was the biggest fight of all time. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I want to do. Yeah, that's what I want to be involved with, yeah. That's That's why we do this thing. We don't like I have had A lot of fights. That nobody cared about.

41:27 In all honesty, like I've had a lot of fights But I think d people don't realise like See Me and other guys at the top of the division. You know, we're traveling the world, we're making money, we're winning titles, we're doing all this good stuff.

41:41 Honestly. Most of my fights there was a hundred people there. And I came away with Hundred quid cash. And nobody gave a shit.

41:50 Either way. Yeah. That's uh And that's that's the realisation of it, like MMA is such a tough sport to

41:59 Like a lot of kids l not a lot of kids, but a lot of parents, if I meet a parent on the street as kids involved in MMA or whatever. A lot of the time we'll say like, Oh, what advice have you got for And In all honesty. A lot of the time.

42:13 I'm like Have a back up plan. Because it's so difficult to make any money. out of uh or any like I was saying I'm going to an event tomorrow, actually. It's a local show. I was a I'm actually champion on the show.

42:27 It's a great show, do you know what I mean? There'll be there'll be a couple of thousand people there tomorrow. And it's um there's got a big fight card, like There's maybe twenty fighters on. So there's forty fighters fighting tomorrow and I I'm going to it. And uh I was trying to

42:42 So my friend last night actually said, Oh, is there anyone uh decent on the car? So yeah, yeah, there's a couple of guys on and He said, Oh, will it will anybody go to the UC? And we just got chatting about that and and how that looks and how it looks to get in the UFC and And I said to want to be honest with you. If one person out of the forty can Buy a house.

43:02 From MMA. I would be very surprised. And that's one in four a decent level. Like it's just so hard. to make a living out of ever made. There is absolutely no career path to doing it, really, especially in this country, like it's getting Tougher and tougher and I'm trying to

43:20 I'm trying to raise as much awareness about MMA as possible. I want Kids. To be able to look at guys like me. And other guys and be like

43:30 If he's making career out of it. I can, but it is so hard in this country, that's why I'm doing as much as I can to try and get this thing as mainstream as possible. I mean, even in the UK if I think there's been what, hundreds of thousands of kids that probably practiced MMA over the last couple of years and

43:47 How many of them really get to the point where they could buy a house from it? Yeah, you can name them like Y you Conor McGregor. Ian Gary. Yeah.

43:57 Patty Pimlet. Leon Edwards. I mean there there's definitely guys who who have made a lot of money out of it and And have a good living, but Honestly, like I've been around gyms all my life and I would say ninety five percent of people I've never made more than five grand for a fight.

44:14 How much were you getting paid throughout your amateur career?'Cause you were An amateur fighter. Up until the point where you basically ran out of people you could fight. Yeah. Um I think you had nine amateur fights, right? Nine. Nine. Which at the time was quite a lot. I would always recommend get as much as much experience as you can as an amateur before you move on to pro. But yeah, so as a as an amateur I was obviously getting

44:34 ticket money. So I'd sell So so the way it worked when I was fighting as an amateur at least, it was like If you would sell a ticket for thirty quid. You would get a five or of it. So the the promoters it.

44:45 work off that like a little percentage thing going. So of those nine amateur fights, how much do you think you you all together? Oh I was maybe making between fifty and a hundred quid a fight. Okay, so that's Nearly a grand. Yeah, nearly a grand. Yeah, nearly a grand on that. And then you w went you had a professional run as well. Was it seven fights as a professional MMA?

45:05 Before I got to the I've no idea. Before I got to the UFC probably s yeah, maybe seven. Yeah. So I remember my first pro fight, I got two hundred quid. Okay, so you doubled. Doubled it. Smashing it. I was absolutely smashing it then. So so that's yeah, another so you probably made two grand or something there. And then the UFC pays much better. Much better. Much better. Which is when you can start to make a living from it. They start off pretty good. Uh the thing

45:32 I'm really lucky in the fact that I've got A fan friendly style. So people want to see me fight, especially the heavyweights people wanna see. A lot a lot of the people. Like

45:41 Who were not They've not got a technically trained eye. They see two. Guys punching each other, one guy. Unconscious. That that's that's the brutality of it, and that's the that's the reality of it.

45:53 And my style. Generally speaking. Brings that. Well, I mean, generally speaking, don't you hold the world record for The average time that a fight ends. Yes.

46:04 Yeah. Which is pretty crazy. So I mean that's why You're such a draw, right?'Cause you're knocking everyone out within two minutes on average. Yep. Yeah, so Like you m

46:13 I progress through contracts and money quite quickly because of my style, but not everybody does. So generally speaking You get in the UFC you get what's called show money. Which is your money to show up. Which is What can you tell me?

46:26 Usually it's ten grand. Yeah. Dollars. Yeah. Um I mean People's contracts are different, but I'm just speaking generally. People start off at ten and ten.

46:37 To get show money. Win money. So generally speaking, and this this varies amongst you know, if someone's got A career in another big organization. Sometimes they'll sign him for more than that.

46:50 But I was coming off a regional show. So I I think I I either got ten and ten or twelve and twelve, I can't remember. But generally speaking it's like You get your show money, which is between ten and fifteen K. Dollars. And then you win bonus. Is double your show money.

47:05 Usually. So Ten and ten, twelve and twelve, fifteen and five. For how long? Are you on that contract? They usually do four fights. Okay. But the thing is They can terminate that at any time. So

47:17 If you're in like a fight that's boring, it's a bit of a stinker. Even if you win they can just be like Yeah, Done. Don't with that. Interesting. So if it's four fights, you're getting ten and ten

47:28 You could earn that's eighty K If you win, you usually go up, so it'd be like ten and ten. Twelve and twelve. Fourteen and fourteen, sixteen and sixteen, something like that. Okay. The low end is you could make eighty K from those first. Yeah. But if you lose

47:42 He's getting ten. That's the uh Yeah, and generally speaking, like if you go ten and ten. You win. You got twelve and twelve. You win.

47:53 You go fourteen and fourteen. But you lose that one. You go back to twelve and twelve. Does that make sense? If you have it

48:01 An exciting style. And the US U light ya. See, I'm very lucky'cause I'm from the UK. and people from the UK get behind the fighters a lot of the time and I'm very lucky that I've got that myself. So I did

48:14 Ten of ten. And then I think Twelve and twelve, if I remember rightly. And then they re signed me then,'cause they had two first round finishes. Ah. So they re sign me for a bigger contract then, which is great, and then I they signed me for another four fights and then you know, you win a couple more in exciting fashion and you can you can get bigger contracts. You don't have to stay for the four. So after two fights you've got a new deal. Yes. And that drastically changes the money. Yes.

48:38 Yeah. Like from Still in the tens? Still in the tens. Yeah, yeah. Bigger tens, fifties. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

48:46 I thought um someone like Ian Gary who came in from uh what's the organization he came in? Cage Warriors. Cage Warriors. I also came in from Cage Warriors. Oh okay. So he must have been I thought he was on fifty. I mean he might have been. Yeah, maybe he was, I don't know. It varies from person to person, but from my experience I came in. It's either ten and ten or twelve and twelve, I can't remember exactly. And when does the big the big like six figure Show money. Begin. So

49:13 I got a a good contract. Because I took The title fight on two weeks notice. So I was in a bit of a position there where like I could kinda like save the card. 'Cause there was a title fight on the card.

49:26 Somebody pulled out. They asked me to step in. So, you know, I was in a position that the UFC was kinda kinda like needed me a little bit then. So um But to answer the question, everyone's different with that, but with the money aspect, it's like when you start becoming popular. and winning fights that when people want to see you, basically. That's it's just as much about

49:47 Do people want to watch you fight? Nice. That's like a b it's not just about Winning fights. Winning fights is Extremely important. But

49:57 You you gotta make people wanna see you. So that was against Serv Sergey Pavlovich. That's right. In that was in the the end of two thousand twenty three. Yes. November. And that was your first six figure payday. Because you took that.

50:10 Massive fight on short notice. Yes. It was your biggest paid day. It was my biggest paid. Uh at the time, I got a bigger one in my last fight. Oh but it was your biggest payday up until that point? By far. By far. By far.

50:21 By how much far? Buy it. More than double. More than double. And that was a six figure paydo.

50:27 Yes. Okay. Th the reason why that's so surpr surprising and interesting is because you were fighting at that point for the interim heavyweight title. Yeah. So I'm thinking about those kids back in Salford.

50:39 Yeah. And if they if they want to get a Life threatening. Six figure'cause that's what it is. Six figure payday. Than The journey that you went on is from the age of

50:50 What, seven years old you start? Seven, eight, something like that, yeah. Till you uh Thirty years old. So twenty three years. For you to get

50:59 A six figure payday from a Heavyweight. UFC title. It's a long time. It's a lot of work. Yeah.

51:07 A whole lot of work. Yeah. I was thinking about your story arc and if if you were to like Paint it on a graph, like drawing a graph. Am I right in thinking it's like slow, flat, and then quite sudden. Oh yeah, there's lot yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's there's a lot of that going on.

51:21 They say don't they something like that. It takes years to fig to become an overnight success or whatever. Yeah. And that's exactly what I'm dealing with, yeah. Really yeah, it's crazy. Like you say, I've been going since I was eight years old and the stuff that I've gone through in that time. is unbeliev I'm a massive believer in like Just Outlasting people.

51:41 Like Just being consistent. and outlasting people. a lot of the time overtakes. Anything else.

51:49 Mm-hmm. Like there's so many times. And a lot of it is down to my dad as well. Is like I wanted to quit. And he's just remark uh don't get me wrong, I I have quite a couple of times uh with MMA.

52:01 Uh It's been like So I think you really need to think about this because You've been spending your whole life doing it.

52:10 Like I don't Quit now. You know what I mean? Like there's there's been a lot of that from my dad. And uh I think a lot of other dads would have just been like, Yeah, you've done enough now, you've tried your best. Just leave it at that. Whereas it's always been

52:22 You know, my dad's always believed in me. Uh and my mum as well. Not not just my dad. And a lot of close people around me as well, to be honest. I'm very lucky in that regard. that uh people have push me to continue, which is great. When was the first time you quit?

52:35 Quite quite a lot of times, mate, to be honest. Uh a lot of different reasons. Injuries. Yeah. Tough, very very, very tough to deal with injuries as a professional athlete. Not getting regular fights is also tough. See now I'm like was complaining to you a minute ago about I'm not gonna fight uh this that and the other but I'm gonna get a fight.

52:56 the the thirst from the fans is there that the UFC want me to fight. I've got a belt, I gotta defend. We've got to unify this. There's there's millions of dollars at stake here. Like I'm gonna fight soon. I don't know when it's gonna be. But at one point Nobody cared if I fought or not. And I had no money.

53:12 And that that I think The the toughest time for me was So I I had my first kid when I was twenty three. wife was pregnant when she was twenty two, when we were twenty two, and the first kid at twenty three. And then

53:26 When I was twenty four. We found out that she was pregnant again. Um Which I'm very happy about, of course. I don't want to seem like it's a negative thing. And that we're having twins. Um

53:40 We had the twins, everything's great. And I had no money. And I mean. I didn't have any money.

53:49 That's all. And I'm like living on this dream of May becoming this global superstar with these millions of pounds in the bank and with these titles and travel I'm living on that dream. But I'm in Otherton, in Greater Manchester.

54:06 It's raining outside. I can't afford to put fuel in my car. And I've got three kids upstairs crying. Do you know what I mean? That that's that's what I was on. And I really felt like At the time. I don't I don't wanna say like I'm some big masculine guy or anything, but I felt a little bit

54:24 demasculated, if that's right. I felt like I'm here with this wife and kids and I ain't Providing nothing. Like and that was really tough for me mentally at that time, where I'm like How am I?

54:37 Gonna provide for all these people. Like I've got to do something else because and I felt I don't think that people around me W Like Tom's living in a dream world. He needs to get a proper job and earn some money for his family and kids. I don't think people'cause there was a lot of people around me who actually believe believed in the dream as well, which is amazing.

54:57 But I felt the pressure. I felt like people felt like that a little bit, even if they weren't saying it, so Uh the I think for me was the the toughest time for me, I think, is when Just after I've had my kids.

55:11 I'm away training every day. I'm I'm barely spending any time at the h at home. When I am spending time at home, I'm completely exhausted from training. The kids have me up all the time. They're crying. My wife's not happy. I've got no money. I train all this time. Daughter fight. Then it gets cancelled a week before.

55:27 Do you know what I mean? That was really, really tough to deal with at the time. How do you from a mental health perspective how How were you during that season of life? Not great. Very, very tough. I think

55:40 First of all. I mean everybody's different. But Having three kids at the age of twenty five. It's quite tough.

55:48 I don't think I was well I wouldn't change it for the world. I absolutely love being a dad. Love my kids to death. The most important thing in my life. Um I wouldn't change it for the world, but I think now looking back at me like seven years ago having three children. I don't know how I did it.

56:05 It was really, really tough. Like I think that's really young. And light. I was very underdeveloped mentally. to have that kind of responsibility and raise children and a family and a house and have a wife and try and get my career off the ground. Like it was really, really tough at the time. So I think I was just in survival mode, to be honest with you.

56:23 Actually it's funny you should say,'cause I've been having these conversations recently with a couple of friends, it's like My friend. Now is having twins, he's just found out. He asked me, what's it like? And I said, To be honest with you, I'm gonna be really honest because I I pride myself as a nice person.

56:41 It was the hardest thing I've ever done. I can't even remember the first year. And I can't because it was so difficult. And it wasn't just the twins, it was also The money situation. Fat my career's not going anywhere, the stress I was under Just the trying to be a young

56:57 guy but having all this responsibility on me. But like I said, I absolutely wouldn't change it for the world. It's is literally shaped me into the person that I am today and I'm really, really proud of where I am now. But uh at the time it it was very tough for me mentally. Was there was there a hardest moment that you reflect on?'Cause w sometimes when we think back to our lives, we can remember like a vivid rock bottom where something happened. We went to put petrol in the car or And or when we

57:22 We were alone in our mind started saying dark things to us. It was there a a a rock bottom in that period of life? I don't I I was still like aware. Of how um Lucky I was.

57:35 to have like three beautiful children and And still be chasing the dream that I was on. But I think I just hated it. Owing anybody money. Like I felt like

57:46 I just hate going to people and asking them for money. Like that was like my worst. Nightmare and I had to lend like borrow a lot of money off my dad. uh to borrow some money off friends just to put fuel in the car to get to the gym to be living in what I thought at the time was like a make believe I I didn't think it was a make believe dream, but I think I feel like the people

58:05 on the outside thought What is he doing? Like, what is this guy doing? Like he needs to like look after his family. Like I felt I felt that a lot. And a lot of that might have just been in my own psyche, to be honest with you. A lot of it I don't think came from my close circle, but I remember like having to borrow money from friends. to like put fuel in my car. buy nappies for my kids and stuff like that, just so I can like

58:29 keep living on this dream of having a fight in six weeks. Getting six hundred quid and being able to give'em twenty quid back. Like that was it's tough. It was tough. Does that not put a lot of pressure on the relationship?'Cause I mean, bloody hell, relationships are hard enough without Twins. Another child, yeah.

58:45 Um And everything else that makes life and relationships difficult. So It's quite remarkable that You know Being in a relationship's not easy in a in any in any in any in any regard, being in a relationship and showing life for somebody isn't easy. Um

59:02 Yeah, it it did. It did, but you know what, we got through it and we're really strong and I'm really uh happy with the family unit that we've built. I try and be the best dad that I can be. Like that's more important than anything else to me. Um, is just spending time and making my kids um as good as I can. And I'm aware that As a dad and as a parent, you can't Control.

59:23 as such what your kids you can't mould a kid into what you want it. to be. You can't say like I got three kids and they're all completely different. They're all brought up exactly the same, but they're all completely different. And you can never say This is what my kid's gonna be. And this is who he's gonna be and how he's gonna be.

59:40 But just to be able to hopefully bring some kind of positive outlook on their life and and hopefully give'em a positive experience on this earth is a What I'm looking to do. Your your partner, you're married to Justina. Yeah. Did she understand? Oh, she understands more than anybody.

59:55 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If it wasn't for her. My dad, my mom. Couple of friends around. I would have been.

1:00:02 Yeah, I would have been a mess. Absolutely Matt, yeah. She was very understanding because I know that most women They would have been putting the pressure on big time. Yeah. She was it's w because when we met, I've been with her since I was nineteen. She was nineteen, also with the same age. Um That was my dream.

1:00:18 From the beginning. So she like got on board with that. Um And she's kept me. She stopped me from quitting a lot of times as well. She stopped me from quitting so many times, yeah. There's

1:00:27 This sport's tough and like I said, there's no So in football, for example, I know a little bit about football. You start from a grassroots team as a kid, then you go to an academy and then you can get signed at the age of like twelve, thirteen and start playing for the under thirteens and professional club and there's a place where you can go and obviously football's a tough game, they can cut you off like that as well.

1:00:48 But at least you there's a career path of what you're gonna do and where you're gonna go, whereas MA you're basically shooting in the dark for ninety five percent of it. Um And I'm very lucky to have people Like my wife, my family, my uh Mom and dad and the people around me who believe in me as well.

1:01:04 Yeah, it's correct. I mean, we started talking about this because of that. That kinda graph of your career where it's kinda Flat. relative to what then happened and then quick all of a sudden. And even when you think about the financials, it's like very, very

1:01:17 Little and then if you get all the right forces behind you in terms of like personality and timing, and then someone drops out here, you get the interim shot, you win. Then things take off. And that it's it's also remarkable to me that it's happened in such a s short period of time. Um, relative to how long you've been doing this because yeah, when I looked down and I saw that this was twenty twenty three, that you got that shot. You're kind of a new face on the scene to some degree, relative to some of the some of these other guys. Yeah.

1:01:43 Definitely, definitely. I think the new generation is definitely coming in now. In in uh Like the old guard, the old champions are kinda they're at the back end of the career and now it's time for Um New guys, which is that's progression. That's that's great. Quick one, I want to talk about something we all need to take seriously, which is cybersecurity. Whether you're a first time founder facing your very first audit or a seasoned professional who's been through it all, staying compliant is getting more critical than ever and more complicated, I have to say.

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1:03:04 The box. We'll remove the belt. I mean it's not I'll be honest, mate, it's not that exciting. Interesting. It probably stinks as well. Probably smell it from over there. I'm okay, I'm going to call it. This is a this is a knee pot. Okay.

1:03:18 I What is the story behind The knee pad. Why did you bring that? So

1:03:27 First of all, I I've had a knee problem. For a long time. I started the knee problem when we were talking about the things that we've just been talking about, the financial struggles. And I knew that I was never kinda like one. Two fights away from getting to the UFC.

1:03:42 So I wanted to train through the knee problems. Then I got to the UFC. I'm training I I fight I win. Oh my knees knee's all right. I'm doing like I'm doing pretty well here. Like I can fight with one knee.

1:03:55 Fight again or win, then I get a new contract. And then I fight they offer me another fight. I don't I don't want to say no to the UFC I'm on this roll, I've still got this bad knee, I'm training with one leg and You're training with one leg. Yeah, I've trained with one leg for a long time. Yeah, pretty much. I never kicked with the leg, I never went on the knee ever or anything like that. Anyway.

1:04:13 This kept going and going. I was fighting with one leg. Then the most devastating thing that happened in my whole career was My need just give out in front of

1:04:26 twenty five thousand. home fans. in the Ulcer Arena in London. In what was a title eliminator fight. So

1:04:35 If us would have won that fight. we would have got a title shot next. So it's a massive fight with with title imp implications. And not only did I lose the fight Because of the injury. Uh losing the fight is one thing. Like if I go in there

1:04:50 I have a good fight. I I show off all my training, but I get knocked out, for example. Like, even though I'm gonna be sad that I've lost the fight, I am relatively satisfied that I went in there I had a go. came came up short. Like I I can live with that.

1:05:06 Whereas With the knee. I went in the Got injured straight away. The knee was down, I couldn't walk.

1:05:16 Oh yeah. Surgery and then I was unsure whether my career was gonna be over or not. And that was a massive, massive turning point in um In my life, not just in my career, but in my life, um, that really, really give me a chance to think and slow down. And figure out what's

1:05:34 important and what isn't. And uh that all came because of one of the biggest Worst thing that's happened in my life, but One of the most important things as well, and one of the I got the most growth. from that knee injury than I've got from anything else in my life, I think.

1:05:48 What kind of growth emerged from that? At the time, I was doing a lot of things wrong. In my personal life. And in my professional life. Like

1:05:57 I had a lot of people around me that shouldn't have been there. I was doing some training sessions and training with people that I shouldn't have really been training with. Um I wasn't living a good lifestyle in terms of diet and

1:06:11 My recovery. I wasn't a hundred percent focused and I should have been, but because everything was going so well. And I'm a little bit Oh like superstitious. I didn't want to change anything. Because I'm like, Well, it's going well. I don't want to start changing it. And I knew that there was a lot of things wrong. I knew that there were people that I shouldn't have been surrounding myself with. I knew that they were

1:06:32 training sessions that were just wasting my time really and they were um toxic people around me that shouldn't have been there and I and I need they needed to go, but I didn't want to Change everything. Because it was all going so well. And when

1:06:46 When you talk about like a rock bottom moment. When you saw on the floor of the UFC Octagon in the Auto Arena. With your leg up in there. And this twenty five thousand people.

1:06:59 Who are there for you. Um start leaving the building. Yes. A bad feeling. It's a really bad feeling. So that really rate made me like reassess. Um

1:07:10 some of the de s the the decisions that I was making at the time. And the Tom Aspenal before and after that moment. Completely different people. I feel like a completely rebuilt myself, not only physically.

1:07:22 'cause I think you can s look you look at me physically. In fights before. and see a physical change just in terms of my physique and the way I'm moving around. Obviously I one leg before and I've got two legs now, which is way better. But mentally

1:07:35 The growth has been enormous. Is that I completely cut out anything negative. that was in my life. Anything that wasn't anything or any one that wasn't serving me to become like run parallel with my journey. to becoming the best heavyweight in the world are completely cut off.

1:07:52 Quite. Because'cause of I was so superstitious, I think. But but why Why did you why was it so important for you to remove those people? At that particular moment.

1:08:05 As an athlete. I needed to Not only as an athlete, as a as a As a man. I needed to

1:08:12 really slow down. 'Cause I was on this like fast track. It's like I got in the UFC and it was just like fight, fight, fight, but and every time it's like more and more popular, more interviews, more media, more fame, more money, more this, that and and I didn't really have time to like assess really what was round me. I didn't have time to like start cutting people off and start changing this and tweaking this and doing I just

1:08:36 Didn't see it because I was on this like I was just going and going and going and when I had that and Next minute I'm sat on the couch for six months with this big Cut on my leg. I can't walk. I'm like doing physio and doing all the rest of it and um

1:08:51 Yeah, I just feel like As an athlete and a man, I really had that time to slow down and and really assess my life and be like This isn't working. It needs to change. That was actually the closest point.

1:09:03 where I was pretty close to throwing in the towel then, to be honest. on my career because At that point. I've not made like mega money or anything. But I've made enough money to like be

1:09:15 Comfortable. Um Yeah, I bought a house at that time. I'd made some decent money but nothing like life changing, but I've made enough money to then I don't know, be

1:09:27 Living my life to an all right. You know, standard for However long. Um I was like, Well, I'm financially comfortable now. I've had some fights in the UFC, I've had some success. I was I think I was just outside the top five at that time, or something, maybe top ten. No, I've gone way further than a lot of people have done. Maybe I'll just

1:09:45 Like leave it there. Was there an element of you that wondered if The public would ever want to see you again. Oh, of course, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, definitely.

1:09:54 Because I didn't have a f an actual fight, I felt like people thought a fate injury or something. So I think like a lot of people thought Yeah, he didn't he didn't really want to be in there with Not a Pongman. I felt'cause especially my opponent at the time, Curtis Blaze, he was like running through everybody.

1:10:10 Um, and I felt like a lot of people were like Tell just didn't want to fight. So I felt like very insecure about myself at the time and I really like when I came back, I really had like a chip on my shoulder and I still got it. That like I wanna

1:10:24 I wanna prove to everybody that Like I'm the best everywhere in the world. You got six months on the sofa. Did you Read things people are saying. I try not to, but I always do.

1:10:35 I try not to, but Um Yeah, but I think I think it's quite healthy in a way, though, as well. I think it that fueled me a lot as well.

1:10:44 Is that people started quitting on me and stuff. And a lot of people even like people like, Yeah, you know, you got a lot of ways to make money now. Like you've already done loads of media, you know, you you good you're good on the mic and stuff, you can maybe be a pundit and stuff like that. For a time I was like, Yeah, the maybe I can. Maybe I can just like It'll be a pundit and you know, I've been in there, I've main evented a couple of times and stuff. I've been for almost the elite level.

1:11:08 Mm. Yeah, maybe I maybe I can just do that. But then I started reading these negative comments. And I was like Uh actually. I wanna fight like

1:11:17 What what is this? Why where am I going? I'm letting these regular people Like speak like talk to me and and put regular thoughts in my mind and I'm not a regular person. So I'm I'm an elite.

1:11:31 special athlete. And I always have that belief in myself that I'm not regular. I don't want to be regular. And I can't let regular people tell me how to Uh how's it function?

1:11:41 Um I was almost at the point where I was I was letting regular people tell me how to function and The the the kind of like online Hate us. Spurred me to be like

1:11:54 No. I've got I've got to come back and win this aisle. There's no chance this is gonna be the end of me. Did it knock your confidence at all? The nature of The loss and it's your first and only loss in the UFC and you w went on to beat this guy in a rematch.

1:12:09 Um Did it knock your confidence at all, even though it was via injury? Yeah. No. No, because I was really particular that

1:12:17 So there there was two things that I really wanted to do. After the fight. So I lost to a guy called Uh Curtis Blades, that's when I injured my knee. In fifteen seconds. In fifteen seconds, yeah, right at the beginning of the fight. So

1:12:30 I wanted to fight Curtis again. that that was really important to me is that I fight him again because I can't function. As a human being. No one.

1:12:40 that I trained for a fight and didn't actually fight somebody. If I would have lost At least I can like look myself in the mirror and be like I try my best. That's all I can do. But I seriously had unfinished business. And the other thing was

1:12:55 That the injury happened at the auto arena. Mm-hmm. Which From anyone from the UK knows that that is like a prestigious A re like if you're if you're a a UFC fighter.

1:13:06 You're English. You wanna fire the all two. Especially the headline the altar. Unbelievable experience. And I couldn't then.

1:13:14 never fight at the Auto Arena again. I had to fight at the Ulto. Like they were the two things. I wanted to fight Blades again and I wanted to fight at the Ul Two just so I can like mentally Just tick them two things off. And then move forward. And uh I did both of'em and I won both fights, so Happy with that. John Jones.

1:13:33 Yeah. How do you feel about him? I'm sick of talking about it. I bet you are, yeah,'cause that's all what people want to talk about. Yeah, yeah, I mean A lot of people now they think like oh all Tom does is talk about John. Um

1:13:46 It's not the case. I don't want to talk about John, but That's all people ask me about. Do you know what I mean? Everybody like I said before, it's w it's probably one of the most anticipated fights in UFC history, me and John Jones. So obviously that's the subject that people want to talk about. That's what people are interested in. So Um Johnny's an absolute leg legend of the sport, to answer that.

1:14:10 The way I feel about him personally is quite relevant. the the stuff that he's done. in the UFC, he will be absolutely immortal forever. He will always be known as one of the best ever. And I really um

1:14:23 as a mar mixed martial arts fan. Really, really respect what he's done. In the spot. Are you fearful of fighting him? Oh absolutely. Absolutely. I mean I'd be an idiot otherwise, like he's the best

1:14:35 Um, one of the best to ever Put a pair of UFC gloves on. And I think Like I say, regardless. Of

1:14:44 what is done outside the oxygen. Um for anyone watching who doesn't know, I am referring to these legal issues that he's got. And that's not that's nothing to do with me. I I have no idea about any of that. I don't know him personally. Um I think inside the octagon.

1:15:02 He is one hundred percent one of the best people to ever do it. What do you admire about John Jones? In terms of his fighting style. He's extremely smart. Extremely smart. The way he

1:15:16 Goes about But also His uh business outside the octagon and the matchup that he's chosen for himself. Uh very smart.

1:15:29 Very, very smart. The way that he's shoals. Guys. who he matches up stylistically really well with. Or who are well past. The prime.

1:15:40 I think it's genius. Are you saying that he's a avoided people that would might have beaten. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that he's he's Chol's very well. It shows very, very wisely.

1:15:53 the right opponents at the right time, which is super smart. So to answer your question, yeah, probably I'm saying that. So what about his You admire that his his sort of fighting IQ. Yeah, he's sort one of the smartest fighters to ever fight in in Explain that to me like a I'm a muggle, so I don't know.

1:16:15 He Well he has a certain way. of making Fight us fight his style. If that makes sense. So

1:16:26 He will constantly Keep his opponent guessing. with kinda like different things that they like he will always have a style that Suits him really well.

1:16:39 And he will forces opponent to fight that way. If that makes sense. Yeah, it does, yeah. But yeah, I guess it's kinda difficult if you're uneducated on it, but He has his style and He will never

1:16:51 come out of that and risk fighting in somebody else's style ever. He will constantly force elite guys to fight his style, which is really, really difficult to do in a in a technical perspective. Kinda saw that against uh Stipe, I thought'cause Yeah, but Stepe's also forty two years old with a million miles on the clock. You have to remember that. But you are right, you're definitely right. But uh

1:17:13 From seeing it up close'cause I was sat. Re like I was almost in touch in distance of the octagon. Stipe was more than off beat in that fight in terms of Oh How far he is away from his prime.

1:17:26 What is it what is what is it that John Jones is doing there? Because you see these great athletes who have their own really clearly defined style, then you see them get in the ring with John Jones. And suddenly. This Like Bastalle seems to have

1:17:39 vanished. Or they're scared or Or he's Doing something to keep them out like on the back foot and outside of their zone of comfort so they can never really get into the rhythm so they play his game. Yeah. What is it he's doing there? Like is it Well first of all

1:17:54 He John Jones is a light heavyweight. Yeah. So he's now moved up to heavy. He's had two fights heavyweight, but traditionally there's a light heavyweight. For a light heavyweight, he's extremely long in terms of wing span and and leg length. And when you're that much taller and This is not I'm I'm not saying anything about but most of the guys he's fought. Uh from middleweight coming up.

1:18:16 So he's generally the taller guy. And keeps people at the end of his reach so well. Like his distant distance management is One of the best ever. He does that really well. And then when he's moved up to heavyweight, he's fought a guy in Sorgown who No disrespect to him.

1:18:32 Doesn't have a ground game. Yeah. John Jones is one of the best wrestlers. Ever. in in MMA.

1:18:38 and a forty two year old stipe. So he's shows really, really well what he does, but He just uses his distance management and his timing is incredible. Like the way he uses The attributes that he's got is Honestly like from From somebody who's studied martial arts from

1:18:56 Eight years old. It's like it's it's almost Like beautiful for me to watch. The way he expresses

1:19:05 Different techniques. under that much pressure against the league competition, it's amazing to watch. He's got an incredible set of skills in that regard, because he can kick, he can punch, he can grapple. He can wrestle I think in today's

1:19:20 Mixed martial arts. Everybody has to do all that. Arguably everybody has to be almost elite in everything. The thing that he does really well is he does everything on his terms. inside the octagon.

1:19:33 Like Everybody can do all all the stuff that you just listed. Punch, kick, elbow, knee, wrestle, grapple, choke, arm bar, whatever. But he does it all on his terms, and that is something that is the elite of the elite. And

1:19:47 Like I say, all of us. All of us. I want to say Oz I'm talking about the professional MMA fighter who's had one fight. Two John Jones. All of us, everything in between that. Can do everything really well.

1:19:59 You have to be able to to be able to swim. But he just does it. on his terms when his opponent is not expecting it, and that is Unbelievable. So you must

1:20:09 Be thinking about how You stop that. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It's difficult because I don't want to overobs about it'cause there's no contract with my name and his name signed. Yeah. But in the back of my mind when I'm training, of course, I'm thinking about that kind of stuff. But I think what I bring to the table is I'm way bigger than anyone he's ever thought. Um

1:20:29 Close to my prime. I don't think I've reached it quite yet. I think I've still got maybe a year or so before I get there. And I think I'm just really I w I don't want to say I'm athletically gifted,'cause I'm def I've definitely put a lot of work into it.

1:20:44 But I think when it comes to um athleticism for a big guy. I think um Like I I don't wanna sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet, but I'm just being real. I think that I'm like head and shoulders above any other heavyweight And my d not only that my decision making.

1:21:00 I think that's the difference is like a lot of people like any heavyweight, put a pair of gloves on, they can knock anybody out. That goes without saying, we're massive guys. But my decision making Is it lead? Like elite elite the best, some of the best in MMA and I hate to sit here with a lot of cameras around me and s look you in the face and tell you that, but it's the honest truth. I believe that.

1:21:21 I'm also almost in my prime. I'm hungry and I bring all these physical and technical attributes to the table, which somebody like, for example, Steep me old chic, who's eleven, twelve years older than me. And a million miles on the clock doesn't bring. So when people see your fighting style and they hear that you've got the world record for the lowest average time

1:21:41 To end fights. Something just over two minutes. On average, your fights last before you knock the guy out. They're gonna be thinking right, so Tom's strategy here is he's gonna storm Uh John Jones and Throw that.

1:21:52 That hand and knock him out. And John Jones is gonna be thinking the same. John Jones is gonna be like, Right, he's gonna try and finish me quick. That's his game. There's literally a world record that says that's his game. Yep. I love that. Like if people think that's all I bring to the table.

1:22:07 Like I like Begin a bit of a mystery. I absolutely love that. Like there's so much of my game that I've not had the opportunity to show yet. And

1:22:18 I I absolutely love it, you know, when people like critique the fact that I've not been into the later arms or Maybe I've not looked at the conditioning that other guys have got or Look, that's not my problem. That's the problem of my of my opponents. They can't deal with what I'm throwing. I never, ever go out there to finish the fight quick. It just happens.

1:22:37 And That isn't actually an issue for me, that's the issue for the guy standing across the octagon from me because I have never been in a fight where I'm trying to finish, really. I'm just trying to go out there, do my thing, see what comes and see what's what like

1:22:53 And the fact that people are doubting what I can do. And because just because they don't know,'cause they've not seen it with their own eyes, they think I can't do it, which To me is um humongous advantage. Humongous advantage. Like John Jones, for example.

1:23:06 Is known. For his Film study. Like he loves watching his opponent and seeing how they move, seeing the patterns that they bring up and

1:23:17 Light. Good luck with doing that with me, mate, because the footage isn't out there. And I think that's also part of the reason why he's not quick to sign any contracts or to agree on anything. Yeah, the money's a factor, of course. Yeah, he's right, the end of his career and he he might want to retire. I don't know. I don't know how John's mind works, but Definitely somewhere it's an insecurity of his that there isn't any footage out there of me that you can watch for longer than

1:23:39 Three or four minutes. And that is just a humongous advantage for me. Massive. Because you finished the fight so quick, yeah. Yeah, there's so much.

1:23:50 I've not even been close to showing. And I I'm very excited to surprise some of these guys when I when I do show it. I can't imagine how many times you must have played over in your head. You talking about drilling earlier. That fight.

1:24:05 Yeah. Talk to me about that. Yeah, I've definitely replay like played it a lot. Um, but I do that with all opponents, eva even even guys in the in the division right now who have Not got any pr prospects of fighting at the moment. I think about that a lot. Like I think about how I match up physically and mentally with them. Uh so if you're playing that over in your head.

1:24:26 Run me through the tape you're playing. Well that's the top secret. Is that really the case that there's a particular Strategy and you're free playing in your head over. Absolutely. But there's there's one thing.

1:24:40 That I know for sure. This this is nailed on. Guaranteed. And this goes for any human being in the world, and this has been proved time and time again. Even though sometimes I don't believe that it can happen.

1:24:52 But now I know. If I punch a human being in the face as hard as I can and it lands. They will be unconscious. I know it.

1:25:02 because it's been proved at the elite level. multiple times. So I need one. And that's it. Well I wanted to test that, so we've got Jack here, who is

1:25:15 Oh, punch you got not today. Have you had your punch power tested? Yeah, I I have had it tested. Um There are guys that are Have

1:25:27 More punch power than me on the machine. Mm-hmm. And probably in real life as well, wh whatever. But I think See, I don't want to tell you because I don't want people to watch it and and know my secrets.

1:25:37 But I punch people when they're not expecting it and they're the one they're the ones that hurt. Um I disguise it in a certain way. You know, I do bits on my YouTube channel and stuff about me explaining techniques and and doing different things and No, I've got something called a school platform.

1:25:55 Which I know you had Alex Hall Mosey on the channel as well, who who is as shares in school and I show different techniques and stuff like that, but I'll never show. My game. If that makes sense. I'll show a generalization. of what to do and strategy and what to focus on or not, but my personal game or what I do for my style, I'll never show it because

1:26:14 That's something for only me and my coaches to know. And when you think about your routine for those six weeks, yeah, what advice can you give to like An average person. About the health routine that you go through to get into elite elite shape. What are the tips and tricks you've learned that you could impart on me as someone that's not necessarily a fighter, but

1:26:31 Well, something that I'm learning as I'm getting a little bit older. And I'm not saying I'm old by any chance, by any stretch of the imagination, but as I'm getting older and I'm getting more I've been training a long time, even though I'm not um the up there in age, but I can definitely feel more of my body than I used to, especially being a bigger guy. Um

1:26:51 generally we carry more injuries, but I think The If you train in, for example, four hours a day. What I found is doing at least half of that time recovering.

1:27:04 Is what I'm aiming to do. So However the recovery looks to you, whether that's Stretching. Breathing exercises, sauna, swimming, steam room, jacuzzi.

1:27:15 You know, there's a there's a whole you Google recovery from exercise, there'll be a million things that you can do. But I like to try and do fifty percent of my training. The easiest way I can say is if I'm training for four hours, I try and do two hours worth of recovery. Um And I think that's helped me a lot, not to mention Massively, massively underrated and as a heavyweight, I can kinda eat what I want, really.

1:27:36 If I want to. And well, I don't have a the smaller weights, they all have to be under a certain weight. So weight cutting is like a big thing in OMA. People they do extreme diets and then cut a lot of water out the last week and try and get you know, squeeze as much as they can to get under this weight division, they weigh in, then they put the weight back on. Mm. I just have to be over ninety three kilos and I do that, no problem. But But doesn't your nutrition have an impact on your performance? Of course. Of course. That's that's kinda what I'm getting to is like it is so important what you put in your body. Like I didn't realise that until I was maybe

1:28:11 Twenty eight years old. Twenty seven, twenty eight years old. Um And it needs to be monitored. Like Again, going back to writing stuff down like Write down what you eat in a day.

1:28:25 And eliminate one thing for the next day and write how you feel. Like that's what I did a lot. It's like and now I'm at the point where like I will eat similar things and similar times. Every day. Because I know how my body functions on that. And I know that If I'm doing an intense session there, I need a little bit more cars before and after.

1:28:43 And what kind of cars is something that I've worked out to how I feel before and after and Again, it's just a lot of Every person's body is different, so I would never like to sit here and I'm not a nutrition expert and and start going on about what people need to eat because that's not my expertise. But

1:29:01 I know from a personal point of view. that writing things down and experimenting, taking this out and adding this in and then writing notes on how you feel and doing that every day. Uh Been massive for me. Mm.

1:29:12 What about sleep? You mentioned sleep earlier. Do like to sleep a lot. I'm just a big napper. Like if I if I train in the morning I'm going to sleep straight after. And

1:29:22 That takes a lot of discipline, you know. Like it takes a lot of discipline for me to be like I'm coming home from training. I'm gonna shower, eat and sleep. And Nothing's coming in the way of that. Like it takes a especially like with kids.

1:29:35 Mm. Well if I'm coming home. And if if I've done a two hour sess session in the morning, I'm coming home, the kids are excited to see me. This guy's Wants to play on the Xbox, the little one wants to play outside, this one wants a snack. And that one wants to play outside and then it's just madness. And then one of them spilled a drink, you gotta clean this up, and then one wants this on the TV. It's just a constant thing.

1:29:55 For me to then walk in and be like Oh what's bad? I'll be up in an hour and a half. You know what I mean? Like that's that's discipline as well. That's it, but All these little increments they just pay off massively.

1:30:08 Because I talked about ketosis on this podcast and ketones, a brand called Ketone IQ sent me their little product here. And it was on my desk when I got to the office. I picked it up, it sat on my desk for a couple of weeks, then one day I tried it. And honestly, I have not looked back ever since. I now have this everywhere I go. When I travel all around the world, it's in my hotel room, my team will put it there. Before I did the podcast recording today that I've just finished.

1:30:33 I had a shot of ketone IQ. And as is always the case when I fall in love with a product, I called the CEO and asked if I could invest a couple of million quid into their company. So I'm now an investor in the company as well as them being a brand sponsor. I find it so easy to drop into deep focus work when I've had one of these. I would love you to try one. and see the impact it has on you, your focus, your productivity, and your endurance. So if you want to try today, visit ketone.com slash steven for thirty percent off your subscription. Plus you'll receive a free gift with your second shipment. That's ketone.com slash Steven. I'm excited for you. I am. The hardest conversations are often the ones we avoid. But what if you had the right question to start them with?

1:31:15 Every single guest in the Driver CO has left behind a question. In this Diary. And it's a question designed to challenge, to connect, and to go deeper with the next guest. And these are all the questions that I have here. In my hand. On one side you've got the question that was asked.

1:31:31 The name of the person who wrote it. And on the other side, if you scan that You can watch the person who came after. You answered it. Fifty one questions split across three different levels, the warm up level, the open up level, and the deep level. So you decide how deep the conversation goes. And people play these conversation cards in boardrooms at work, in bedrooms, alone at night. And on first dates.

1:31:54 And everywhere in between. I'll put a link to the conversation cards in the description below, and you can get yours at thediary.com. You mentioned a term earlier on that we didn't go into, which was Hypnotherapy. Yes.

1:32:07 For someone that doesn't know what hypnotherapy is. Can you give me like a broad idea of what it is and how the role that it's played in your life and any evidence you might have seen that it actually works? Yep. So I'm going like quite hard on the hypnotherapy now. I actually spoke to my hypnotherapist yesterday and I'm gonna start doing uh twice a week. Um A few different reasons really, both personal and professional. I had a situation recently, uh, with my kid.

1:32:36 Where uh my kid was in hospital. And it really kicked off my anxiety massively. And since then I'm struggling to relax a little bit more than than I would usually. Uh struggling to switch off. So I think that For me personally, again

1:32:49 don't want to sit here and preach about hypnotherapy'cause it's not my expertise at all. But for me personally it brings my anxiety down a lot. So it helps with that. Um it also helps with sleep. It also helps with just

1:33:02 Being just in a more Tranquil Place. In general. And

1:33:09 When you At the those qualities into What can be a very anxiety filled Anxiety filled spore.

1:33:19 I think that's just a massive advantage. Not to mention the other stuff that we talked about, like life and and just general stressiness as well. For someone that doesn't know anything about the hypnotherapy that you do, they might think that it's like you know, in back in the day it was like Swinging the thing in front of your face and then you fall asleep and they tell you you're a dog and you bark and stuff. Yeah. Um but but it's not that, is it? It's

1:33:41 What is it? Again, people are gonna start thinking it's like some like like say some woo woo thing where you start like going unconscious and doing all we it's nothing like that. It's like Essentially just in a room. The way that I do it, at least I'm in a room with a guy talking to me. I'm completely relaxed, lay down or sat up. Doesn't matter, usually with my eyes closed. And usually it'll take you through a story of like you go into a place, you're walking down a street, or what you'll set the scene kind of thing. And I used to think,

1:34:10 I need to listen. and focus in on every word he's saying. Like I need to put myself exactly where You know, follow the story. quote unquote story. Exactly as he's telling me to follow it.

1:34:22 Mm-hmm. And I actually spoke to him about it. And I was like I'm struggling to like listen for that long and for'cause it goes on like forty five minutes. I'm struggling to like follow the path that you're leading me down for that long. And he's like, Listen.

1:34:37 Don't worry. You can be thinking about whatever you want. You don't have to follow what I'm telling you. You say,'Cause your subconscious is listening all the time. It's say it's the same when couple of times I was like fighting to stay awake'cause I was tired. And most of the time I do it after training as well, so I'm tired. Like fighting to stay awake. And I said, Look, I'm fighting to stay awake. I'm like getting really tired. And he's like, Look, if you fall asleep. Doesn't matter your subconscious is still listening, so it doesn't matter what's going on.

1:35:00 And a lot of the time I'm just there, I'm just like chilling out. I'm listening to what he's saying, but I'm also drifting off of my own thoughts and I don't know how again I'm not a s like a psychologist, hypnotherapist, or anything like that, but I only know from my own personal perspective. S When it comes to like Anxiety and

1:35:19 positive thinking and just generally being in a better place mentally. I just believe in it a lot. I think it really helps me. Anxiety. What journey have you been on with your anxiety? Um It's something uh

1:35:32 I've always kinda dealt with, but I I think it's not uncommon. to deal with it. And I think that a lot of people think it think it is uncommon. Like I Uh I'm a little bit O C D. And I think that O C D um anxiety goes hand in hand.

1:35:48 Like I think that And it used to be a lot worse, to be honest. I used to I've struggled with it. uh when I was a child and still struggle with it now, but Uh used to be a lot worse when I was younger. And how did that manifest it? Oh at one point at one point it was like I couldn't sit in a room unless the room was the way I wanted it to look.

1:36:05 Like unless the curtains were Claws the right way. The drawers were shut perfectly, everything was facing forward. T V was on a certain angle, like I couldn't rest. Uh because of like I would think like something bad is gonna happen unless

1:36:20 All else. Right. But after a after a while I kinda grew out of that a little bit and Got a hold on it, but it still creeps back, mate, sometimes. I try and keep it at bay. Does it come out at certain moments when certain things happen? Yeah.

1:36:34 Yeah, it does it gets worse. Um Again, like I said, I've been s through something quite traumatic recently, weren't I? some was in hospital and that's a whole nother story of its own, but at one point we were really concerned about like my son's Health, really. Um

1:36:49 And that was a big traumatic thing for me and I've noticed a lot that my old starts to come back and I wanna Do s certain certain stuff again because my anxiety is creeping up and Just gotta really.

1:37:00 Try and keep it at bay. And anxiety separate to that. Um Your your anxiety. Is

1:37:08 Always been something in the background in your life, but it it flares up in certain situations. Yeah. So I mean I'm I'm in an an anxiety fueled sport. So Uh I think uh naturally.

1:37:21 There's a lot going on because of that, but It's just something I think everybody deals with it. I don't think I'm I don't think I'm uncommon to anybody else. I think Especially these days, it's a lot more accepted to be like talking about it and stuff. Um super common, in it's very growing. It's very common. Very, very common. I think social media Doesn't help with that, especially for like I mean for myself it's

1:37:42 Like I have a thing now with I've only done for the last couple of fights where Social media's gone from my life when I got a fight date. Because There is no chance that I'm thinking about my opponent all day. And I'm also scrolling and reading all the comments all day. It's just not

1:37:57 I just won't deal with it. And that for the next fight I'm actually gonna Uh Have like a training camp full. Oh, okay.

1:38:06 Who are actually involved. in my training camp or personal life. And when I say personal life, I'm talking about my wife, my mom and dad. And probably that's it.

1:38:16 Like I don't wanna have any outside noise coming in at all. Your son's doing it K now? Sun's doing okay now, yeah. Yeah.

1:38:24 Yeah, thankfully, everything's good. Puts things in perspective, doesn't it? Honestly, unbelievably. Um Yeah, I mean It wasn't really, really bad.

1:38:35 Without going into too too many details, but Uh Spent a stay in hospital. Um with something that we weren't sure what it was at first and yeah, massively, absolutely like nothing else really matters if

1:38:48 As long like as long as you've got your Health and You know, your family's health, like You're in a pretty good spot. I think because

1:38:57 It's just a horrible place to be. Is this the son that received an autism diagnosis? No, this is my So one of my twins has autism. Yeah. Yeah, this is The non autistic

1:39:07 Okay. Tell me about your son that was receive the autism diagnosis and the sort of journey you've been on there. I I think this is really, really important because I've done this podcast a while. Yeah. And I get so many DMs from parents You have

1:39:21 an autistic child asking me to talk more about the subject because They just don't feel like the information's out there and they There's a number of feelings that they feel. I think one of them that I see in my DMs expressed is a bit of guilt. Yeah. To some degree, which is an interesting one, but also just a lack of people talking about the experience. So Tak take me on the journey from

1:39:40 When that child was born. And um the path to the diagnosis. I mean I'll I'll give as much detail as possible because like you say, I think Parents.

1:39:51 Need. Details. And There isn't a lot. out about it. And

1:39:58 Now for me recently, like I say, I've been through s something traumatic. With Another one of my kids. And

1:40:07 The NHS has been absolute nothing short of unbelievable. Like We're in an emergency situation where we need an emergency treatment. And my kid got twenty four hours a day looking after while there was an emergency going on and it was unbelievable. We came away, me and my wife being like

1:40:25 We are so lucky to live in this country'cause my wife isn't from this country as well. Sure. We we both came away being like we are so lucky to live here in a place where you can get free Everything. in an emergency level straight away.

1:40:41 So I'm not trying to throw the NHS under the bus at all. 'Cause when there's an emergency it's amazing. That being said. As far as the autistic community We are being failed.

1:40:55 And I don't know if that's from the NHS. from the government. I don't know who that's from. But I was in a spot So five my my twins are nearly six, they're coming up to six. Um As in a spot like

1:41:08 My twins were born. And they were born just before the lockdown. Then Covid hit everything like the world went to shit, as we know. And then My kids got in in

1:41:19 a place where, you know, we had a child before And We're aware that Kids. hit milestones.

1:41:26 Well you've got twins, so they're the hitting the milestones are different. stages. Um Then we start to notice like Maybe maybe two year the kids are maybe two years old. Start to m know it's like one kid is A fair bit.

1:41:41 Beyond. the other one in in terms of speech. terms of how responsive he is, in terms of Eye contact in s in terms of law, we we could see something's different. But me personally as a dad, I was kinda like in denial.

1:41:58 us to Right, this is lockdown's fault. This kid is two years old, he's been in the house, he's been around Me, my wife, and two brothers. Sometimes grandparents when the government would would let us and that's it.

1:42:11 For like two years. He's not in social situations. He's not around other kids and That kinda went on. For a bit I was kinda like heavily in denial about it. Even though now looking back. I could clearly see.

1:42:25 That things weren't moving. Nobody. Especially because He's got this twin and the twins like you know, he he's moving at a different rate. So it was right there in front of my face. Um

1:42:36 But I'm just like, in this denial, he'll catch up, it's just a lockdown's fault. The government's keeping us all locked inside, blah, blah, blah. Patty McGinnis. Funny enough, it was a guy from uh My area, like from a similar area. Don't know Patty at all, never met him.

1:42:50 Um But he had this programme, um, and it was about autism. And I don't know why one day me and my wife we sat down and watched his programme. And he, I believe, has three autistic children. All of his all of his three children are diagnosed with autism.

1:43:05 So anyway, I'm watching this documentary and he's he's talking about all the different symptoms'cause it's a massive spectrum autism. There's there's a million different things. And I'm watching he's talking about this one kid he does this. This is this is the way that altism presents himself this particular kid. And in my mind I'm thinking.

1:43:25 Yeah, my my son does do that a little bit. And then he's talking about a different good. W who also is diagnosed with autism, the way that the The child does this and I'm thinking. Anyway, he's he's going through talking about his different children and

1:43:39 I'm thinking Oh. Oh. My my child sticks a lot of these boxes. Mm.

1:43:46 And then I Google it. I don't I know nothing about autism at the time. And obviously that's the worst thing you can ever do. And I'm going through these symptoms being like wow This is When I don't know what to do. Like we need to try and

1:43:58 Try and get help. So anyway, make a doctor's appointment in the GP. And that is a complete Mess. it's difficult to get an appointment. We go in, they put us on a waiting list.

1:44:10 Anyway. A year or so goes by. The children. isn't developing at the speed of his twin. We can see this clearly.

1:44:21 We are worried about what's going on. And um We don't know what to do. Like we are literally We have no idea about what's going on, how to progress this child. What his future's gonna look like.

1:44:36 We know nothing about autism. Me and my wife at the time. Absolutely zero about it. We don't know It's just so Such an We're talking about anxiety. Like

1:44:47 You don't know what your child's future's gonna look like and how to help him. Or her. on how to progress as a human being. That is some of the worst anxiety that you can ever have. Mm.

1:44:58 You've brought this kid To this earth. Um you can't even point'em in the right direction of where to go. On how to

1:45:08 navigate the way through life and it's it's a really, really difficult thing. Anyway I go on a question of sport, the show. Party McGinnis is the host. Me and Pott me and Potty are chatting a little bit. And uh after the show or whatever, and I said

1:45:24 Not but if you don't mind me asking. Uh, I'll I'll watch your show about um autism. I'm trying to get my kid diagnosed. I've been I've been on the waiting list a year. Like what shall we do?

1:45:35 So anyway, gives me the number. to the to the specialist. I call the specialist. We go in for a meeting, long story short. Paid for the diagnosis. Got this kid diagnosed.

1:45:48 And Now my children. Is in a mainstream school. He has a one to one. One to one teacher.

1:45:56 He's getting the help he needs. He's doing really well. He's progressing. W how the future's gonna look. We don't know. We l we're dealing with it day to day. And now I am completely aware.

1:46:10 That as a person in a good financial situation. I have the ability to do that is to go Pay the money. And get that. And now

1:46:19 There is so many people. So so many people. Who And I mean I get hundreds of messages about it, hundreds of people stopping me on the street about it.

1:46:30 Because I've spoken a little bit about autism. Who they are going to the GP going for assessments and they cannot get a diagnosis. They're on a three, four, five year waiting list.

1:46:42 And these kids are getting sent to mainstream schools. And the kids are just regressing and regressing and regressing. Because they don't have any help and The parents of the kids. have zero direction and they don't know what to do.

1:46:58 And we're in a really tough spot with it in this country where like I say we've got this amazing NHS I don't know if it's the NHS that's holding this or the government, but and I don't know what's causing autism. There's a a million things out there about vaccinations, about diet, about things that they're watching on TV, about the toys that they play with, you know, there's a load of different theories on it. Me personally, I don't know what it is, obviously. I'm not a specialist with that, but And know that

1:47:23 Awesome is getting bigger and bigger each year. There's more and more people. trying to get diagnosed. There's more and more people getting diagnosed. And the help just isn't there? The help.

1:47:35 Especially in schools, like I'm so lucky that my son has an amazing one-to-one teacher. Every day he goes in and he enjoys school and it progresses a little bit. And we know what we're in a position where we've had help as parents. That we know what kind of direction and where to navigate him in sometimes.

1:47:54 Now there's so many parents out there who've been on like I say three, four, five, six, seven year waiting list. Their kids are just getting worse and worse and worse. And as a penalty to that, the parents' life are then getting worse and worse and worse. And they have absolutely no direction.

1:48:11 of where to go and what to do, and it's a serious, serious crisis that we've got in this country at the moment. There are in this country there are seven hundred thousand Autistic adults and children, um But in the US, roughly two point five percent of the Uspulation has been diagnosed with autism. And it is four times more common in boys than girls.

1:48:31 And there was a seven hundred and eighty seven percent rise in the number of autism diagnosis over the last roughly two decades. Um, which is on one hand awareness. being h it's higher so people are going and getting a diagnosis, but some think there might be other factors that are actually increasing the amount of people that are Autistic. Why for someone that doesn't understand autism and the process that and the plight of a parent that has an autistic child

1:48:56 Is the diagnosis so critical? Is it because you then get additional support and guidance and you can access that support if you have a diagnosis. So I was under the notion that if my kid is diagnosed autistic or not. Doesn't matter.

1:49:10 That was that was my original thing. Doesn't matter, he's still my kid. Still gonna love him, I'm still gonna guide him through whatever he needs to in life. Now I completely respect anybody who's doing that.

1:49:21 It has a hundred percent respect from from me and I'm sure everybody else. But the biggest issue is Like Me personally. I'm a professional athlete. It's like

1:49:32 I know. Tá. For this many hours a day, I need to be in the gym and training. When I'm not in the gym, I need to be recovering. When I'm not in the gym, I need to be eating the right things. And I have this process. O of things that make me successful. That's how I work in my life. If you don't have a diagnosis.

1:49:48 of autism. The only way I can describe it. Because I've been there. Is you just kinda like tread in water. You you're just stuck in one place.

1:49:57 Flailing around. And not really knowing. How should Do them steps and progress your family life and your child's life. That's the way that I look at it personally. I'm I'm speaking 100% for myself.

1:50:11 But if you've not got a diagnosis First of all, you're not getting Any funding? Which, like I said, I'm in a financial position where I don't need any funding. But there's a lot of people out there.

1:50:21 We do need funding. And funding looks like Outlets for the child. Help in school. Help at home.

1:50:30 Help for the parents. Help for the friends. Sensory rooms in school. sensory toys, you know, th the there's a whole host of things that can help autistic children or autistic people. And without that diagnosis, if you don't if you're a parent and you don't have that for your child

1:50:48 From my personal experience. It feels like you're treading water. I feel like I needed A process of This is these are the steps that we have to take.

1:50:58 To help my child progress. And I think that it's a What we need. Is it's not about

1:51:05 Another number. Um the the statistics that you've read out it's not about that. It's not about me saying I've got an autistic child or whatever. It's about the help that your child can get.

1:51:17 And right now. We definitely don't have enough help in this country. I heard one of my best friends was diagnosed with autism. Um been one of my best friends for a long time. He's actually also worked at my company. Um for for many, many years. And he spoke to me about the Sense of relief.

1:51:33 that he experienced when he got his diagnosis, but also It was kinda like Like you're describing, there's suddenly a sense of direction and understanding. Like someone turned the lights on. Yeah. with the lights on, he was able to make better decisions and it's not held him back in any way. If anything, it's done the opposite. It's helped him to understand himself. But I think for for some of us who don't understand, haven't been through that. We either don't can't relate, but but also we have no

1:51:58 No idea that there's additional sort. I had no idea until you just said it just then, that there's additional support given in schools and stuff like that to kids who have that diagnosis. So It's critically important and I'm so glad that you share that with us because hopefully there's some people watching In the government, but also parents that can get together and that are Presumably getting together to Change this. Yeah, I mean it's a tough thing

1:52:19 For me to talk about because I'm completely aware. That there will be people watching this. And thinking Who is this knucklehead?

1:52:27 Talking about Like autism diagnosis are what the government needs to go through. Ball. It's also an experience that I've lived.

1:52:36 And it's also an experience that I'm still living. Mm-hmm. And that I'm fully aware. Just from my local area and my circle of friends and people around me. That the

1:52:46 Is A shit ton of people. Who are who are in the same boat as I am. I need help. And

1:52:52 Uh, I feel extremely lucky and grateful that I've got the help. And that we are progressing, but I know that there's a lot of people who don't and that are struggling. So I want to try and speak for those people if I can. Thank you for doing it. That's um there's a lot of my audience that I can be very, very grateful for that. There's something sat next to me on the table here, which is this

1:53:10 This belt. It's very, very heavy. I know this is just a replica, but you do have the real one at home. And the reason why um you only bought me the replica instead of the real thing is Um, is because The real thing costs a lot of money, apparently. Apparently. Apparently. So I I heard rumors online that the real thing Actually costs about three hundred grand. Yeah.

1:53:32 And you have to sign a contract when you receive this bell. But if you lose it. Then you have to personally pay. If it goes missing, I'm paying for it, so Hopefully that will That won't happen. But it's in a very safe spot, so

1:53:44 It won't it won't go missing. I'm not gonna ask you where you keep it,'cause there's people listening, but um it's just what are these f flags around it? I've actually never seen one before, so I'm not too sure. I know this bit. This bit here. Decide. Yeah. So these these little um

1:54:00 These stones, whatever they are. Uh, you get one of those different so they're all I think on the real one, the diamonds, and this is a Is is that a Ruby or something? A Ruby looks like him. You get a Ruby when you defend it.

1:54:12 So I defended it once, so I got one. And then obviously that fills up the more you do it. Oh, so if you defend it one, two, three, four, five, six, seven times, it's gonna be all eight rubies. Yeah. Okay. Wha wh what does that say there? It says UFC three oh four Edwards versus Mohammed Two. My personal one has my like my name on it and the the proper details, but'cause this is a replica. And when you won that

1:54:34 Interim heavyweight championship. And then and you woke up the next day. How did you feel? Honestly. I woke up about three days later. I did sorry, I didn't sleep for about three days after.

1:54:49 Uh,'cause I was very excited. Um Yeah, pretty good. Pretty I mean, I I won it in weird circumstances. So that fight I took on really short, and I also say actually wasn't in shape for that fight at all. Um I actually just come back. Off a off a stagdo. So I wasn't uh in my best shape when I when I answered that call. Um Was there any anti climax to it?

1:55:11 No No, but There's definitely an um anti climax a little bit. To um Like being quote unquote successful.

1:55:23 Because you still feel the same. Like as you you still have the same um Issues like Issues as you had before. Like

1:55:34 Money, fame and titles doesn't change much in terms of what goes on inside your brain, in my opinion. Maybe it does change for some for some people, but uh for me I still have the same struggles as I did before. It doesn't change anything in that regard. I think when you're younger, especially I don't know, it's like Young people they think that rich people have no problems. Mm. And it just isn't true. It's just far just so far from the truth.

1:55:57 Mm. You know that. Yeah, well, they say more money, more problems, but it's just a a different set of problems than some of the other ones. Well that's it, that's it. I mean at one point, as we spoke about in detail. A big problem was m of mine was I couldn't pay my rent and I couldn't pay fuel to put in the car. That's gone. But there there's more problems that of a role since. Um

1:56:16 The money won't fix. You know what I mean? Are you at all concerned that when you when your time does come, you want to retire relatively early, so you don't get any cognitive issues or have to fight beyond your time? Are you at all concerned about what you do next?'Cause we've seen people like Tyson Fury who sort of really struggle. I I am a little bit, to be honest. I'd be lying if I said otherwise. Um Just because it takes up so much of my time.

1:56:38 Takes up so much of my time. And the time that I'm not actually actually physically training. Like I'm not in the gym. trade in the I am doing other stuff towards it.

1:56:48 I Even stuff like breathing exercises I would class as part of my training. Stretching. Eating right, sleep like I would class this all as part of my Training routine. So when I've not got

1:57:02 The What will my life look like? I don't know. I I don't know and that's something. As we've spoken about before, and I'm aware that I'm on the second half of my career now. When that's done, how does it look?

1:57:15 And I don't know. If anything can ever replace that, in all honesty. What about the money of things? So Are you having to think now?

1:57:25 What's the average age of a UFC fighter retirement? I mean, most people don't even get there, but if you do really, really well, you might fight until If you're really, really lucky y you you might do stipe's age. Forty. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why that is, but yeah. Generally the heavyweight's usually 40 ish. So how'd you think about Financial longevity. And are you investing your money? Have you got people that help you with that? I do, I do. I'm looking to

1:57:49 Um Invest all the time. I actually Yeah. My team has actually been really um really good with that kind of stuff. Like a lot of my uh not a lot, but a few of my sponsorships I actually have uh shares in business as well as as a sponsorship and

1:58:08 Also, I want to do more stuff. I I really love the sport of MMA, so I'm always like even though I'm retired from fighting. I'll never be involved. I'll never be retired from MMA, if that makes sense. I've definitely made mistakes.

1:58:22 in the media space before. Definitely, but I'm learning. And I definitely think there's a place for me somewhere in the future to educate people on MMA. However that looks, whether it's punditry. Whether it's podcasts, whether it's I don't know, some something somewhere, I definitely think that I will give some kind of insight to somebody where people can um hopefully learn something from me in that regard.

1:58:47 I think you're more than capable of doing all that. I'd love to see Give uh breakdowns. I've seen some of the stuff you're doing with school as well. So you've got to do it. I've also I've also uh I don't know why, but they're giving my my own show now on T M T sport as well, breaking down fights. So this is uh this it's a start. I'm just getting the foot in the door. It's not something that I'm focusing on full time now,'cause I'm obviously really busy with other stuff, but um When I'm done, that's what I want to do. How what does your dad think of all of this? He's been such a central figure in your in your life. Wha w this whole John Jones situation, you went in a

1:59:18 the the this belt that sits in front of me here You must have like blown his mind. I don't think so. Really? Yeah, I think that he had this firm belief.

1:59:30 He believed in me way before I believed in myself. I always say. And I think that This is also his dream as well. But I don't think for any of us and this is gonna sound super arrogant.

1:59:40 But it's the truth. I don't think any of us are surprised. But I think that In some way.

1:59:48 uh it was like written for us to do it. I don't know. I I I can't explain it any more than that. Like I feel like we were both expecting to be here. And uh this is where we are and and this is where we're gonna be till till I'm done. Did he ever tell you you were gonna be here? Yeah. What did he say? Just just little sni he was never like, You're gonna be that but it was like look, if you keep doing this

2:00:10 This is where you're gonna go. If you if you keep being dedicated to training. And keep living your life right, and keep focused. you can be heavyweight jumper in the world and I think Yeah. Especially'cause I'm from

2:00:21 Like a smaller town, a blue collar town for sure, a working class town. S. That belief. is shut down so much. From a young age.

2:00:31 by not just parents, but pe other people surrounding in the community like Listen, maybe don't maybe don't Don't think you're gonna be a Hollywood actor because you're not. Maybe

2:00:44 Maybe try and be a bit more realistic and do something a bit No. If you think you're gonna be uh Holy would I say. You go for it.

2:00:52 Like you you go one hundred percent At that and don't let anything waver from where you're going. And I think that that is not told. So especially the younger generation enough. I think that Like say I'm from a very, very

2:01:07 Blue collar humble town. And From my town. There aren't many people who've done anything. Of grey magnitude.

2:01:16 in in terms of sport and otherwise. Um And I think a lot of that Not not all of it, of course, but I think a lot of it comes from the mentality of Yeah, maybe don't maybe don't aim for that. Aim for something a bit lower. And that sh that shouldn't be encouraged in my opinion. Always

2:01:34 Your first option should be the highest of the high. And if you land any lower then you readjust you you change the goalpost a little bit, but the first thing is shoot as high as you can. Are you special? Yes. Why are you special?

2:01:56 I think that I have I don't know First of all, I think I'm really physically gifted. Mm-hmm. In terms of uh

2:02:06 Athleticism. But it's something that I have worked on a lot as well. It's not I didn't just wake up like this. I've definitely worked a lot over the years of it. But I think that aside, I think I've got A gift mentally. And this this has been

2:02:22 Hold a lot. by the people around me through the years. Like I said, there's been a lot of people supporting me. But I think I've got a gift To perform really, really well under massive pressure. Under massive pressure.

2:02:38 And I don't think Like I say, it's been honed a lot for sure. By my dad and the other people around me. Definitely. But I think

2:02:47 that I I have a God given gift or whoever universe given gift or whoever you believe in. Uh. I can perform. extremely well under the highest pressure situations possible. Even though you feel the fear. Even though I feel the fear,'cause I accept the fear.

2:03:04 A bathe in the fear. Mm. I think uh That's not the first time you've said that. No, it's something that someone told me. Something that someone told me recently. I thought it was funny. So when you feel that fit, is there something you say to yourself? Is there like a mantra or a system Well, I I always say that I used to have two fights. I used to be fighting my opponent, I used to be fighting myself.

2:03:23 I used to be bl trying to block out the fear. Trying to like But you know what, I just I just took it on board and accepted that this this is gonna help me. Like you there's so many examples over the years. I I like to give this example. 'Cause uh

2:03:37 This actually happened to one of my close friends. So he's putting a wardrobe up. And the wardrobe it was like a really heavy wardrobe fell on his kid. It was like not even walking at the time. And he is he's a skinny guy, like he's a small slight guy.

2:03:53 He was on his own and he he Pulled the wardrobe off the kid. Uh. And then Anyway, everything was fine. The kid was fine, everything whatever.

2:04:04 Five minutes later he went to move the wardrobe to another part of the room and realised that he couldn't pick it up. And there's only one thing that's made him pick that wall draw up and it's fear. Fear that that kid is gonna get crushed under that really heavy wardrobe. And when he actually went to pick the wardrobe up.

2:04:20 Without that. There was no way you could have done it. He had to you had to wait till somebody came and and help him move the wardrobe across the room. There was no way that you could have done it without the fear. And there's so many situations like if you're running for your life. One hundred percent guaranteed that you're running. Way quicker than you would. If you were just running down the street.

2:04:38 Goes without saying because That fear. fuels you in ways that you nothing else will. And I have accepted that and took it on board. And used it to help me.

2:04:49 I One of the things that I Remember about you more so than other fighters I've seen. Is how

2:04:59 Calm you look in the ring. Yep. And I don't I'm like Does he just know he's like amazingly good, or is there something he's doing? Because you kinda look how I look when I get to the office. And I don't have some six foot five guy that's trying to Kill me.

2:05:16 By design, yeah. Um So one of my one of my absolute heroes in the sport. I've ever made a guy GSP, George Saint Pierre, he's one of the best fighters to ever lace up the gloves. But not only that, he's one of the best humans as well. I'm lucky enough to have met him a few times and had some deep discussions with him. And he's someone I've studied a lot. Both.

2:05:35 inside and outside of the octagon over the years. Um And thing with GSP is He liked me.

2:05:44 has always am admitted how scared he was. And that's something that I've watched countless interviews and podcasts with him and how he talks about it and stuff. And he used a method and he actually told me about the method. where I'm not sure what the method's called and I don't I don't even know if there's any scientific evidence behind it. But it works for him and it's worked for me on multiple occasions where

2:06:05 If you physically present yourself in a way But even if mentally you don't feel like that. Like on Fight Day, for example. The last thing I feel like doing. He's smiling.

2:06:17 In all honesty, I'm not in a smiley mood. But when you smile, you feel good, you relax, you enjoy yourself, you're confident. So I will walk round. Fake smiling. with my head held high and my shoulders back.

2:06:30 Like there's nothing bothering me in the world. Not because There isn't anything bothering me because trust me on Fight Day, there's a lot of stuff bothering me. I have to get in there in front of millions of people and have a fight with someone. And it's highly likely. that I'm going to be separated from my own consciousness in front of millions of people.

2:06:47 The last thing I wanna do is walk round with a smile on my face, with my shoulders back, with my head up high, being friendly and nice to people and being in a good mood and being relaxed. That's the last Thing I feel. But I purposely walk round like that all day. in every situation that I can possibly be in. And sooner or later, believe it or not.

2:07:06 my mind will actually start to Follow my body's lead. And it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable the way that that can happen. And Like you say, you'll see me, I'm stood there in the octagon and I am scared to death.

2:07:20 My opponent is looking at me across the octagon like he wants to kill me. And I'm looking back like I'm in the queue for a sandwich. By design. By design, I do it. The same with the walk to the oxygen. There's a million people throwing beer on me, shouting in my face, booing me, sticking fingers up in my face, saying that I'm gonna die, literally. While I'm walking to fight another human being.

2:07:45 And I look like I've just walk w woke up and taken the dog for a walk. Mm. By design. Because If you're Body does it sooner or later.

2:07:54 your mind will start to follow and Like I say, this is like a bro science thing probably. But this is something that I've experienced a lot myself and it's proven, at least to me and it and to to George as well that Uh it can be done. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're gonna be leaving it for. This question is hilarious as far as I'm concerned. And it kinda Reveals.

2:08:17 Who left the question? But the question is. It's weird saying this G. Why don't you work harder?

2:08:26 That's a good question. Who who's left that? Can you can you figure it out from what we said to him? So this was the last guest. I told you I was in America. Oh Mr Beast? Mr Beast? Why don't you work harder? That's a good question.

2:08:41 It's a it's a good question. I like to think I work as hard as I can. But I think that if everybody looks itself in the mirror I think everybody could work a bit harder. I think I probably like sleep too much. Is the reason that I don't I think that's the only thing holding me back'cause everything when I'm awake

2:08:59 Everything's geared towards me being the best that I can be. So I think maybe I like sleep a little bit too much. Sleep makes you work hard. It does, that's what I thought. That's what I thought. That that that's uh That's still working hard as far as I'm concerned. Tom, thank you so much. Um, you are such an incredible inspiration for so many reasons. Mainly because you're So remarkably down to earth, but at the same time able to confidently

2:09:25 to say on camera, which I by the way really, really admire and respect. But you think you're special. And I think there's a certain nonchalantness that sometimes people come with because they're trying to be like fake humble. Yeah. But I really respect people that say, No, no, no, I think I'm special. And to be able to say that with such humility, but also with such a track record to justify that claim is in tremendously inspiring inspiring because you come from, as you say, like a blue collar area, you come from

2:09:49 a normal place. You're a normal guy that has just committed himself to something. Despite the Any short term or medium term rewards in your life. Because you loved it and you believed in yourself. And I think that for for anybody listening should be evidence enough that we

2:10:05 We all have a chance of at least something. It might not be being the heavyweight champion of the world,'cause you acknowledge you have physical gifts that You know, myself I don't I wasn't born with, but um But we can all do something with that obsession, with that focus, with a supporting group of people around us, with the right mentality. And with a commitment to it, despite um the objective reality that we're going through. But also I admire you so much because if

2:10:28 Everything you've said about your child with autism and the work you're doing to push harder for um to s to reduce the diagnosis times of the NHS at the moment, which So many parents out there are gonna really appreciate. Um, and we are all Oh my. As a nation. You're a good guy.

2:10:46 um as a British guy and uh Wouldn't that be something? Listen, if anybody can do it and I and I Just saying about the special thing. Mm-hmm.

2:11:01 I wasn't born special. And like you said, I am from The most regular background. That you can come from. And

2:11:09 I don't mean to say I'm not saying I'm special that in the fact that like I'm better than anybody else because I believe Anybody can be special. And I think more people need to believe it. You know what I mean? I think that more people

2:11:23 If they work hard enough. And don't quit on themselves. They can be special as well. On a I think we'll leave it at that. Amen.

2:11:32 Thank you so much, Tom. Thank you. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us, and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here. Please join the twenty four percent of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app.

2:11:57 Here's a promise I'm gonna make to you. I'm gonna do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're gonna deliver the guests that you want me to speak to, and we're gonna continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. Uh

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