Eric Weinstein (Ex-Harvard Physicist): The Collapse Has Already Started! Jeffrey Epstein Was A Front!

Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/1977cec65f83f7f8

Jeffrey Epstein was a product of at least one element of the intelligence community. I would bet money on it.
The CIA FBI. I don't know who ran him, but he knew a tremendous amount about my scientific work and ways that he wasn't supposed to. Very powerful people told me I needed to meet him. He certainly was not a financier in any standard sense. That was a cover story. I need to know what this thing was, and I want to know why people don't investigate it. I want to know why nobody asks for the filings.
But I think more than anything, we don't trust our scientists because our scientists are the most powerful people in our society. So do you think science is being controlled so that it can be used in a way that's beneficial?
Let's put it this way. Eric Weinstein is a renowned mathematician. One of the most fearless and provocative thinkers of our time. He dissects the failures of science, exposes elite networks, and proposes bold new theories that could save humanity. The top of mind for me at the moment is the apocalypse and tropical fruit.
I'm not kidding. You're looking at the end, man. Do you really think this is the start of the end?
Course it is.
Look at how much has happened in the last month.
And the big problem is that we share one atmosphere. All of humanity's eggs are in one basket.
So what needs to happen to get me a future. So I think Elon is a hundred percent right. Gotta get to another sphere. But he's being a complete when it comes to science and he's being a total hero when it comes to engineering.
But you can't engineer your way to the stars with the science we have. The physics.
Opens the universe to
But we have a real problem. The new idea in physics changes the balance of power in the world. The desire of our government is to get the science to give us as much power as possible.
But then they castrate the scientists.
Because our government isn't good enough to keep its own secret.
My employer was a special informant to the FBI. There's a doctrine that says physicists don't have free speech.
They're stopping the world's most important group.
Making progress.
Physics is the only thing that's gonna get your attention.
Let's talk about it.
Quick one before we get back to this episode. Just give me thirty seconds of your time.
Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us, and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place.
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Thank you.
Thank you so much. Back to the episode.
Uh

You are a particularly captivating individual for the very fact that you
Grace so many different intellectual subjects.
As we sit here now having this conversation
I wanna know.
What subjects at this moment in t in time are occupying most of your thoughts and most of your thinking?
We have
Uh a strong listenership here.
And
I think the responsibility that I have meeting someone like you is to understand
What we should be talking about.
So top of mind for me at the moment is tropical fruit and physics.

I'm not kidding.
Tropical fruit and physics. Yeah, yeah.
But that's just because you're catching me on a particular day.
Okay.
And um my l my local um ninety nine ranch market ran out of Rambutan, which I'm addicted to.
No, I have serious issues with tropical fruit. I'm I'm completely obsessed by it. What about this week? What what's been occupying most of your thoughts this week?
Well, the apocalypse.
And physics.
Why'd you say the apocalypse?
Um what do you mean by the apocalypse? Well we're becoming uh uh a nerd to
We just watched hypersonic
missiles flam into a modern city.
On T V.
And
We're watching one of the world's
most remarkable civilizations the Persians take.
uh direct hits from both Israel and
the US and I'm just beside myself.
I mean it it this is incredibly dramatic.
If if you think about you know it's just the idea of the Jews and the Persians or
Oh still here.
And
You know, one of the things that I find really just painful is that
I care about certain certain cultures that I know well.
more than others, and these are two of my absolute favourites.
What's what's going on at this moment in time because it feels like
There's more conflict than there's ever been.
I don't know whether that's just a a bias that I have in this moment, but whether I'm looking at the wrong social media algorithm, but it feels like the world isn't is tense. Well you're too you're too young for the cold war.
So I don't know how old
You are too.
Yeah, so you you you really missed I grew up in a different world where things were tense because there were two players
And it w you know it was more or less the US
And the Soviets.
And then we decided it w one of the dumbest things we ever came up with, a very smart man
Came up with the dumbest one of the dumbest ideas, which was the end of history.
And
You know, the the post World War Two order.
is here to stop us from using the technologies that came out of this. And I you know, I talk about this a lot.
It was a six month period between November of fifty two and April of fifty three.
Were we unlocked first?
the power of the nucleus because we could fuse hydrogen and
Yeah.
Uh other thing we were able to do was uh figure out the three dimensional structure.
of nucleic acid in the form of the double helix.
And suddenly we
In in no time flat we had access to the two most powerful levers
uh humanity.
has ever had or may perhaps ever will.
And so we're just not
in a position to deal with this. And the remarkable thing
What does that mean, sorry?
In terms of you said we had access to the two most remarkable things.
Well
The hydrogen bomb.
Is not something that has ever been used.
By anyone against
An enemy.
This is the first full scale test of a hydrogen device.
If the reaction goes
We're in the thermonuclear era.
So we're we're awaiting its first use in war. We we d we did use fission devices, but we didn't use fusion devices.
And they're at completely different scales.
So
The Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the only two situations in which a nuke has ever been used against this uh a population, civilian or otherwise.
And
We don't know, for example, whether or not I don't know.
Um at least Covid had its origins in a bioweapons program.
So
At some level we're playing with levers and tools that are so powerful.
We do realize that the the key ingredient that made Covid so
Unique.
was a four amino acid sequence inserted into spike protein.
So that's twelve nucleotides.
Coding for four amino acids shut down planet Earth for a couple of years.
That's how powerful this is, you know, and and there are very few things that
Have this kind of leverage.
In twenty seventeen we
Had a discovery of white paper.
Called attention is all you need and it
Oddly many of us.
dealing with AI and LMs and talking that language don't even
Realize there's a paper that you can read that changed everything.
uh it's eight authors uh out of Google, I think. Um and that opened up AI.
Uh, Satoshi in two thousand eight, two thousand and nine.
With the
the solution to the double distributed double spend problem where you could effectively port
Um
conservation laws from the physical world into the digital world.
giving us digital gold, uh but just as a be as a beginning.
These ideas that have such high leverage
Or
making us powerful beyond
Any previous world with no
attendant increase in our wisdom.
And our ability to use
And wield these things. And right now you're seeing
The face where we're
Unveiling. What does drone warfare look like in FPV?
What is it?
First person.

The lens uh of the drone as it slams into a personnel carrier.
You know, maybe you've maybe you've seen this on Telegram where you're just
Watching individuals being menaced.
by mechanical flying birds equipped to kill them.
So
We didn't know what drone warfare looked like.
This is the beginning of drone warfare.
We didn't know what
hypersonic missiles look like when they slam into a population center.
I was just in Tel Aviv.
Yeah.
Couple months ago.
And I was in, you know, shelters because the Hoodies
And some of the um Palestinian Arabs in Gaza were letting off missiles.
But not like this.
Persians really.
You know.
And by the way, they're choosing, I think, to not inflict maximal damage.
I don't I don't think that they
They could have gotten the body count.
uh a lot higher if they wanted to they're trying to speak
the language of violence in a very measured fashion.
So is this a particularly


Can't even believe the question.
You're looking at the end, man.
This is the beginning. This is a slow roll out.
of a completely different world.
We've all been in a completely artificially stagnant bubble.
For decades, my entire life up until now.
It's been in a bubble.
The only people who've seen real life are extremely old.
Who are those people that I've seen real life?
Well, I would say people who went through the depression, World War Two.
You know, in China people who went through mouse
Great leap forward. But most of us have no idea of what I'm doing.
Like a real pandemic, like a Spanish flu or black plague is like. We don't know what
uh Poland went through where they lost, you know, I don't know, twenty, twenty five percent of their population to war.
Look at the stat statistics on the Battle of Stalingrad.
We don't really understand. We've we we've just
Our whole life has been in a bubble.
You said I'm looking at the end.
Yeah.
Remember all the talk about the singularity? Like Ray Kurtzweil, we're heading to the singularity, what is the singularity gonna be like?
You're in it.
But this is if this is now.
You're looking at the disintegration of NATO.
You're looking at people who don't know how to maintain the systems that were engineered by their great grandparents after World War Two. That order.
That you know, you're from the UK.
If you think about
How how the UK woke up to the idea that they had
Built into their heads.
That we are the masters of the world.
So you you saw the beginning of the end.
Of this
concept of the British Empire.
That moment.
Is coming for the US.
And it it may be.
that it's coming for Israel, or maybe that it's coming for Iran.
See, in nineteen sixty seven the Israelis felt invincible.
In the six day war.
And then in nineteen seventy three they had the Yom Kipper War.
And all the people that they were
Yeah, priding themselves having beaten these ferocious enemies that were arrayed against them.
woke up on Yom Kippur in nineteen seventy three and bloodied the Israelis and they
Surprise them.
So the Israelis underestimated their enemy and
that changed the entire character of the country. It went from being a
Triumphal.
state that felt that David could defeat Goliath to realizing that Goliath was quite powerful.
And
you know, the same thing is going to happen here. You you saw the celebration that Trump
you know, had dealt this blow to the Iranian nuclear facilities. You you watch the Persians come back. It's gonna
We're starting to realize what the boundaries are as people are more bold.
In trying things. Maybe she's gonna try to cross the Taiwan Strait.
I don't know.
But the era of stasis where very little happened over very long periods of time is over.
So you think this is the start of escalation?
This is the start of the undoing of the post world war two order.
The idea that the post World War II order is still in place is astounding.
So what happens next?
We either scare the crap out of ourselves and come to our senses or we don't.
We scare the crap out of ourselves and come to our senses. Or we don't.
Mm.
And what does that look like scaring the crap out of ourselves? Well, I don't know. How did you feel about the hypersonic missiles? Like we started this, and I'm talking about tropical fruit.
'Cause I'm trying to figure out whether I I should buy a jackfruit and stink up my wife's kitchen.
You know, and on the other hand, I just saw hypersonic missiles slam into the buildings I was just in.
Meetings and Tel A?
There's a a nuclear
Throughout that weirdly hangs.
over us. And I I almost feel at some deep level we all understand and feel that threat that there's these nine or ten countries around the world that have the ability to basically wipe out
All of us at any moment. I feel like that's almost
Within us all.
That knowing is within us all I totally disagree. Really? Yeah. I think about nothing else sometimes and I still don't believe
I don't believe it.
There's a difference between knowing something in your head and knowing something embodied.
Yeah.
I don't know if we were able to distinguish whether we know it or not how to whether it's embodied
Unconsciously to the point that it's changing how we act.
Do you know what I mean? Because I'm I'm now aware that there's nine countries and I'm also aware of that really it's one individual's

Decision as to whether those
nuclear bombs were to fly.
So there's a part of me that's I don't know, maybe in suspended disbelief or
At a deeper level feels an angst.
But nobody knows what to do with it. And this is part of what what Elon is all about, which is that
I am convinced that everybody else needs to be talking about this much more and I need to be talking about this much less.
I talk about this all the time.
Yeah, people are always
Yeah.
I want to survive more than anything else.
There's so many things that I love about this place.
And I don't like the idea that we're all trapped here.
With one atmosphere.
With nine individuals, if you like.
Who could all wake up on the wrong side of the bed and say
Uh.
Today's the day.
Part of what I'm so exercised about with respect to the apocalypse is how many things I wanna save.
I mean, this city just went up in flames.
It's very
It focuses the mind. How many things can I save in one car load?
If I know that the police are not gonna let me come back to my home.
Do you save photos? Do you save musical instruments?
Do you save financial records? What what is it that you save? Yeah. It was a very focusing
question. We're already over it. We can't even remember the fires.
On that point of
The things that give us meaning in our lives.
Where do you think we're at as a society in terms of our
feelings of meaning and purpose and connectedness to
maybe something transcendent or I was smulling over this idea the other day, I actually posted it on on my LinkedIn page of all places.
I I I said that um I think we need to ladder up to things to feel like anchored and content in life. Like we you know, we ladder we start with ourselves and we ladder up to family, then community, then maybe a mission or a purpose, and then maybe to something transcendent. And it feels like it because of the design of our lives and the optimization of it, we w we're increasingly laddering up to just ourselves.
Yeah. I think even in my life I'm wondering whether
There's like a layer missing.
Like
Which is the religious layer.
Or spiritually.
H good question.
You'll come over Friday night and pray with us.
I'd say I do pray.
That's pretty weak. But it's not a it's not the way that I see prayer on in movies and stuff.
So that's the thing, all right? We have this idea that somebody puts their hands together. Yeah.
And they just believe.
Yeah. A lot of time when you're praying, you don't really believe.
You're not sure that you're doing anything sensible, you you feel ridiculous.
Mm-hmm.
And that's true even if you're a believer.
Do you think we need religion?
Yeah.
Said the atheist.
Are you an atheist? Yeah.
But I take religion super seriously.
I don't think we're meant to live without it.
That's an interesting thing.
Conundrum.
I don't think so. Everybody gets hung up on it. I
sort of wonder what their problem is.
Sh
aren't meant to live without religion. We're meant to be orientated by something
Transcendent.
But you don't believe that that it's real.
I think that
You know, there's this great trick that I learned.
When I was scuba diving.
Which is that your
Need to breathe.
Is triggered by the build up of CO two in your lungs.
And there are all sorts of things you can do.
to decrease your need to breathe.
One is you can hyperventilate.
You can get rid of all of the CO two that's residual.
You can also inure your lungs to CO two by smoking.
You can also breathe out the precious air that your instincts tell you to hold in.
You can do all these things and then you can go super deep. You can equali learn how to equalize the pressure in your ears.
By holding your nose and and and these techniques.
And suddenly you're far deeper than you've ever been, and you're exploring the rocks and the fishes, and there's a turtle and there's an eel.
And you get a message. You're out of air.
And you look up and you see, I am really far from the surface. This is terrifying.
That's what happens when you
Unhook.
The proximate, which is air hunger.
From the ultimate, which is the need to breathe.
So thirst is proximate to dehydration, hunger.
Is proximate.
to the need for nourishment.
In part.
Religion and prayer.
Is there to keep us from unhooking
All of these protective things and just turning life into a hoot.
You can have a hoot without religion.
But if everybody has a hoot, the whole society collapses.
Some point I think.
A president of the United States may have said that people who defend this country were suckers.
Something like that.
I thought
God damn you.
Maybe it's true even.
But
How many families have have received a
A flag draped coffin.
Um
So
Right.
We lost something precious, but we are part of the American tapestry in a way that few families can be.
And when we outsmart ourselves, when we unhook all of these things.
You know, every single young woman
has an idea about what the opportunity cost.
Of
Not going on OnlyFans is.
Before we didn't know what the opportunity cost. There was no measurement of it.
We're becoming too sophisticated. We've got too much information.
We're deranging ourselves. We're having a blast.
And we're
completely undoing all of the superstructure of the world.
The number of people who don't
Have children or want children or
My kids make fun of me that I just go around telling people to make babies.
And it's the most normal thing in the world.
I meet parents who don't harass their own children to get married and have families.
Like what are you doing?
The superstructures of the world. Yeah.
One being f family
Yeah.
Traditions. Yeah.
Things that ground that connect you to
And what are the symptoms of that unhooking from the superstructures of the world? How much do you care about
Things.
How much do you care about people
Say your name four generations out.
Me. Yeah, you. That's right.
But you're
I'm asking all of you who believe that.
Yeah.
That is so sad.
It's so weird.
That no one cares about their legacy because they don't see a future.
So what I'm trying to say is
I'm desperate to get you a future so that you care.
What needs to happen to get me a future?
Something remarkable.
Something utterly remarkable because it's not it it's not going that way.
And that's what that's what the physics part is. Like I talk about physics constantly.
Physics is the only thing that's gonna get your future.
How how
Well, right now the big problem is that we share one atmosphere.
Yeah. So everything that can
All the really bad things, whether it's pathogens,
Like imagine something.
Covid like but far worse.
Or
Climate.
Or
Mm.
Radiation.
All of these things
Don't know anything about borders.
To an extent there's a southern and a northern hemisphere that are separate.
But even that's not.
A great border. So we can draw all the borders on land that we want, but we still have basically
One or two atmospheres, and I would really say one.
And we've now gotten powerful enough to really screw it up.
Right. And so through nukes or through carbon emissions. All three of those things. Okay. Right.
Everything that you care about.
It's on one sphere with one at one atmosphere.
And I think Elon is a hundred percent right.
We gotta get to another sphere.
I can't believe
That
He's focused on Mars.
I mean by by
Sure.
Focus on the moon, focus on Mars, focus on chemical rockets.
But throw a couple billion towards physics for God's sakes, and let us get it.
Let us get serious.
About exploring the cosmos.
This is our womb.
This is not our home.
When you know you know the song closing time?
No, I don't.
Closing time.
Yeah.
You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. I think it's about birth.
Yeah, it's time to be born.
You can't stay here.
This is completely obvious to me, and I am the only person who s who talks this way, and so I sound like a lunatic and I get tired of it.
But the real reason it's it you know, it's about the mangoes.
It's about the Rom Butan, it's about the music.
It's about all the things that I love.
So why would you want to leave?
I wanna take it with us and I wanna see what else is out there. And I wanna meet people.
Why don't you just stay here and
Fix this.
On it.
Because you can't.
The odds of fixing one sphere for a permanent future, you've already talked about you don't care about the future.
I care about my I don't have children yet either, so I don't yeah, I don't have that.
But I
My children don't have children.
And their children don't have children.
And I care about them, and they're not even here.
We've got some time left here, though.
Well we did.

Have you looked what's happened in the last month?
It's coming undone. Pakistan and India.
Do you really think this is the start of the end?
Course it is.
The World War Two order was keeping it it's the control rods keeping the world from going super critical.
Can't we just put the rods back together?
Have you looked at who
We had an election with Donald Trump.
versus Kamala Harris in the US.
Tell me what's going on in the UK. What are we doing in the mayoral race for for New York?
I don't know if you're watching what I'm watching.
Look at the mess.
That's going on in Gaza.
Russia is nuclear.
Israel is presumably nuclear.
Pakistan and India are nuclear. The US is nuclear. Iran is almost nuclear.
China's pissed off about Iran because it was trying to make a play through the region.
North Korea's watching.
Oh, and and look at the UK in turmoil.
UK is a very nuclear country.
To say nothing of France.
This is not going to go well. We just we
By the way, look at how much is happening.
With AI.
Right.
Everything was really stagnant.
So I I I I have this famous challenge that I give people, which is
Go into a room.
And subtract the screen.
And forget about style. How do you know you're not in nineteen seventy three?
Like drones are the beginning.
Imagine I needed a refill on my coffee and
You know, you did something and a drone brought me a coffee to not interrupt the flow.
That w we know we weren't in seventy three, but in general drones aren't a big part of our lives.
These robots I've never seen a human eyed robot actually doing anything other than on YouTube where it's like
Doing the mashed potato.
Mm-hmm.
So in general, yeah.
Things were just really stagnant for a really long time. And then during that period of stagnation, we we had this crazy narrative, which is like the dizzying pace of change is
Making it almost impossible to keep up.
While things were incredibly stagnant.
And so it just shows you sort of this weird way in which
w our our minds can be programmed to completely ignore what we're experiencing.
Is there not a chance that we'll just continue to
Okay, if you want to go with chance.
Look, until
Until you're worried about your great great grandchildren.
I don't wanna have this conversation with you.
I want you to start caring about that.
I want you to go to church.
Yeah, you you're air.
To a great
Truition.
One of the most important traditions in the world has to be Christianity.
Is both Judaism and Islam.
Are screwed up over the law.
Were legal traditions.
Christianity not so much.
I think I first time somebody crystallized that for me was Sam Harris.
It's a really important point.
You're heir to an incredibly powerful and important tradition.
And if we don't have a Christian substrate, we're in real trouble because all of our society is based on it on an assumption of a Christian substrate.
Yo
Advising me to be
What
Christian in tradition, but not in
Necessarily in belief.
Well this is the thing, you're alienated because you think that you have to be a believer in order to go in, otherwise you're faking it.
Yeah.

Get over yourself. That's not how it works. That's me just be being honest. I do think that if I went to a church and I I sang and I I prayed and stuff and I didn't believe I would
That I'd be like
It'd be f it'd be fake.
Okay.
Did do you do you imagine that all those people who go to church are just sitting there a hundred percent sure that there's a there's a Jesus to breed him?
Do you know any Christians?
Yeah.
Yeah. They're not like that.
They sneak off and do bad things.
If they were confident that Jesus was watching.
Everything that they were doing.
They're constantly talking about how they sin.
I'm a sinner.
Right. It's a very complicated, interesting.
Piece of kit.
And my claim is that
You know.
I said the Lord's Prayer is part of going to high school.
I sat in a church.
A chapel.
A high school in LA that had a stained glass window with an American soldier trampling a Nazi flag.
Into the stained glass window.
It's amazing.
How does this link to
Me I was about to say
Don't you have faith that we'll just be able to kind of keep this it feels like a bit of a standoff. You're the one with the faith.
I'm the one who's nervous.
You look.
You're the believer.
I'm not gonna trust that.
No, no, no, I'm gonna get my hands dirty and try to do something of that. Do you know what it I think it impart because
As you said, I've been alive for thirty two years and through that time has been relative peace, especially in the Western world. So it's all I've ever known. So y I I'm born with this assumption that this is just kinda how it goes, that there's always threat, but we kinda figure it out.
Come to the Pacific Palisades. It looks like Gaza.
Yeah.
Yeah, I've got some friends that lost their houses there.
Check that Lena.
In uh West Maui recently.
No.
It's an absolute disaster.
Is AI a protagonist in this story? Is it sure.
In what in what respect?
Well what do you w what do you think about it?
We're going through.
Going through a wild revolution at the moment. And
I just hear people saying the dumbest things about
What do I think about I'm scared I might say something dumb now, but I I say something dumb. I think well I look at both sides of the coin and I look at the
opportunity and the and the threat. My concern when I hear about
the CEOs of the biggest air companies in the world talking about this fast takeoff, is that the transition will be too quick for us to adjust.
And when they say fast takeoff they mean that H I like arrives
And
Yeah.
the rate of its learning accelerates so quickly
It really um
disrupts the need for
human beings to do a lot of the sort of
Jobs we're doing today that are centered on intelligence.
Which jobs require intelligence. Because we've had the industrial revolution where we've
outsourced a lot of labour to machines, but
I don't think so.
Really? Yeah, I think a large portion of our conversation was actually an L L M.
We didn't actually get

Outside of the LLM.
You and I are two chat bots for the most part. You're a good one.
Thank you.
I'm on a huge platform again.
You know?
But my claim is that that's the really disturbing part that more or less we're LLMs. More or less we don't do a single intelligent thing all day long.
And the reason that they're able to mimic us is because we don't realize that intelligence is a last resort for us.
We try to automate.
Like you know, if you think about greetings.
Your assistant was very kind. I got out of a a black car that you guys sat around.
And
I was greeted with the phrase
There he is. The man, the myth. And I knew what was coming next. The legend.

Right.
A sort of humorous way of giving an intimate greeting.
But it's still an LLM.
And I'm not saying that your assistant is an LLM. I'm saying that more or less what we do all day long is L M interaction.
Hey buddy, how are you?
Good, good. Things have been really busy.
How about you? Well I got some travel coming up, kinda excited about it, but I have to get through some work first. I understand.
That's an entirely scripted conversation.
That's why I'm trying to say that I wanna do podcasting that is outside of the LLM model. I don't wanna do just dangerous, stupid stuff, but I wanna talk about things that
I've never explored.
Where I don't have something.
You know.
Ready.
Do you think AI will ever break out of the
The the L L M.
Or will it expand? L as well.
I don't know see I think that
Waiting for AGI as the problem is a is a bad idea. I think the problems are gonna get here far before AGI.
I think even that the AGI expectation is something we're trained to do.
Do you think AGI is coming? Do you think we'll survive AGI? Will A G B I be good or bad?
All of that's pre programmed into you.
Why do you why are you waiting for AGI?
Did you not?
To Alpha Fold Three? Did you did you track that?
Do you know about this?
Was that the chess game? The well it's the chess game that became the protein folding game.
And you want to talk about great games. Protein folding. Now that's a game.
I have no no knowledge of this at all. Okay.
What do you know about proteins?
Very little.
Okay, think about proteins as tiny machines.
Yeah.
But
There's copying machine, there's a scissors and a shearing machine, there's a
A light making machine, all sorts of things.
And all of those machines are weirdly coded.
Imagine that you had like a
A children's show.
And uh
bunch of girl superheroes and they all had necklaces with
uh twenty different kinds of beads around their neck. And so
When
They needed a machine, they'd take off the necklace.
They'd throw it into a thing called a ribosome. The ribosome would
take these twenty kinds of pearls and suddenly it would build you a car.
Or a spaceship or a gun or who knows what. Well that's that's that's the story of DNA.
R and A.
And uh
And protein.
The only thing is
Isn't it weird that a linear sequence suddenly crumples up
into a three dimensional object that does something.
So for example.
I don't know if you've ever seen um
These Turkish rabbits that glow in the dark.
No. Okay. So they took green fluorescent protein out of jellyfish. Yeah.
And they
Uh
splice them into the nucleic acids.
Of rabbits.
And the Turks bred all of these glow in the dark bunnies.
And what that is is a structure so there's
There's something called secondary structure in protein.
Where
Sometimes you get these spirals called alpha helices, and then sometimes you get a two dimensional sheet that's made from taking
Uh
A switchback.
in in strings of amino acids.
And then if you wrap that around you don't have a beta sheet, you have a beta barrel. And these beta barrels are the
glow in the dark aspect of green fluorescent protein. Okay.
And
What we didn't know was how a series of A C Ts and Gs
could code for sequences of amino acids could form three dimensional structures.
So if you just read DNA, you didn't know
Well that's gonna be a s a sports car.
Yeah.
Alpha Fold.
Figured it out for the most part.
Like to a to an enormous extent.
Humans were stuck there.
And what does that mean?
It means that you could
uh I don't know, you could target your enemies that have particular regions uh on their cell surfaces and you could

It could mean anything.
Could be nanorobots.
I don't know what it means, but my point is is that that's already here.
And you're not focused on it.
And you're thinking AGI
And the funny part is is that's your L M that got programmed to wait for AGI.
Well I heard, you know, people that I think are very smart much smarter than me talk about the
Don't listen to them.
Elon.
Sure.
I mean he's he says that it's our biggest existential threat is A AI.
You on
Has become the outsourcing for much of our intelligence, and if Elon means anything to you.
He's really saying to you, Don't listen to me, do something remarkable.
He's saying where is everybody?
Why is there only one Elon?
There used to be lots of them.
Why is there only one Elon?
Yeah, not the right question. Where where did all the other Elans go?
Same question, is it not?
No, I think that the why is there only one Elon makes Elon feel more singular. You know, if you ever get a chance to go to Cappadocia.
Or
Bryce National Park in Utah.
You see what happens, which is that you'll have a stone that was resting on the soil.
And suddenly the wind starts to erode everything except the compactified soil right under that stone, and you get what's called a ferry chimney.
And so the claim is that sometimes you get these isolated structures.
And the key point is everything else eroded away.
We're supposed to have tons of Eli.
And everybody else got taken out.
What or who took them out?
Look at how much trouble Elon has being Elon.
Look, we keep hearing about him, you know.
He's on drugs.
Great.
Take drugs.
No, I'm not kidding.
Do you know how many amazing people take drugs?
If you care about jazz, jazz is a whole you know it's a history of drugs.
Whenever I'm listening to Ray Charles, I'm hearing heroin.
Okay.
What are they doing at Burning Man?
They're trying to live.
luxuriously under oppression.
Simultaneously, luxuriously, and as d dirty and disgusting as you'll ever be.
Hopefully they're having tons of
Eye opening, mind bending experiences.
Chasing some way of getting out of the LLM?
And you know, my feeling about this is
It's not even honest.
I I I believe that Elon, for example, does understand that population and growth is really important.
But I also think he just enjoys making babies.
In an in a in a weird way.
This idea of I'm going to have an empire of my children.
Is a forbidden concept.
Try explaining that to HR.
Mm.
You know, it's like what did you say at work?
So the key point is Elon is barely able to be Elon.
Do you think we're overestimating the impact AI's gonna have?
'Cause people yeah, a lot of people see it as this really fundamentally transformative.
No.

You don't think we're underestimating it.
I think it's gonna be
I I I think that what AI means to us is is bizarre.
We've we've come up with this whole script about AGI and
Well
It's going to take
Everything we do that's repetitive.
Is on the chopping bar.
And since almost everything we do is repetitive.
We don't need to get to AGI.
We just need to do things where lots of people create lots of repetitive data.
And then we tokenize it.
We train
The AI on the tokens.
And then for the most part it says you know it
Doesn't matter. It can be a photograph, it can be music.
Whatever it is.
Amino acids.
Just give me a large enough data set and let me add it and and and you know.
Take a hike for for a little while. I'll train on it. And then I'll know how to do that.
You know what it's bad at?
Things that where there isn't much data.
So I I just I just found out about these orphan proteins where
Like everybody's got a different version of hemoglobin.
Mm-hmm.
But you know the the the quaternary structure if you
Hemoglobas these

You know, four different proteins around a central element.
What happens when you have a protein that has no analog anywhere else? The the system doesn't have the ability to learn it.
If if I train you on the blues and you find out what a twelve bar blues progression is, then you find out that there's a variation where this you know, the second bar goes to the fourth rather than just staying on the one for
four bars and then sometimes the fourth bar has a seven in it to create tension. Okay, so it's gonna learn every single form of the blues.
Like that.
And because there's a large corpus of that stuff, it's gonna get really good at blues music.
You know.
If you take something that basically
Never happens.
It's not gonna have an easy ability to train and give you more.
So I think that AI
Yeah.
Almost certainly going to transform the economy because everything that we we know how to do through education creates repetitive behaviors.
We don't know how to educate for creativity and genius. We know how to educate
for doing higher level things. So radiology's great example.
Radiologists.
Or you know.
Some of the first uh in the crosshairs.
I'm gonna stare at some imaging.
And I'm gonna say I think that's a tumor.
I think that's benign.
And that's gonna say just give me give me give me
All of these tokens.
Like, well, they're x rays, they're cat ski No, no, they're just tokens.
So
Yeah.
It's going to start to automate away every repetitive behavior and then what's gonna be left
is the tiny number of things that aren't really highly repetitive, or things where we really care that a human does it.
Very interesting what's happened with chess.
I know.
If you've been following chess.
I
loosely understand it, mainly because I've spoken to a lot of AI experts and they often reference chess.
As as an example.
That fell.
So they've been longer.
In the AI.
tractor beam than any of the rest of us in some sense.
How did it fall?
Through
Deep blue.
And IBM and Gary Kasparov.
But does that mean that people people aren't interested in chess anymore? No, that's the whole point.
So d Magnus Carlson, the greatest chess player of our time and perhaps of all time.
Was on Joe Rogan.
And Joe asked him the simple question, Can your phone beat you? He's like, Yeah, easily.
So the point is we can't compete.
With
I don't know.
Stockfish or whatever whatever the top chess programs of our time don't know anymore. But nobody cares about those programs except for AI experts.
We care about the drama.
Of
You know, Anon versus Carlson.
Two humans. Two humans.
Because it's about us. We're we're very narcissistic in this way.
And so there was a period.
And you know, this is something that my wife uh
tried to popularize. So she said this thing about the golden age of AI complementarity.
Where the AIs aren't good enough.
To take over from us.
But they're amazing tools, and so there's a period where we're teamed up.
You know, the prompt engineering revolution.
They're not good enough to come up with their own prompts.
And
A great example of this that she and I've been talking about is the cyborg chess.
Oh.
Which is a period where humans and
The AIs could form teams that would do better.
The AI just looks at the human and says
Y you're just holding me back.
You've got two children. Yeah.
When they're thinking about their career prospects.
with all that you think and know and believe about the future that we're heading towards. What what kind of career advice would you be
Giving to them.
I give the I gave gave them somewhat different career advice.
So to my son.
My my advice was do the hardest, most technical thing you possibly can do.
And be prepared.
to use that ability, that facility in different ways than your
You're honing it, but
Train yourself.
With my daughter, um
I think she cares deeply about people.
And you know, th this is a typical male female divide. And I'm not by the way, I'm not gonna talk.
overly much about them because I try to keep them out.
But she is uh you know somebody who's
Taking
Same level of analytic ability.
But putting it in the service of the law and trying to help.
people who are, you know, really unfortunate very idealistic. And so at some level the law
Is not going to allow us to have AI lawyers for quite some time. It's not gonna trust anything. We we've got jury.
uh trials and and judges and a legal system that's written into our founding documents.
To the average person.
I would say get your board in the water.
And
Prepare to paddle like all get out.
The tsunami of a lifetime is coming and nothing your elders have seen is gonna prepare.
Th there's no good advice to give that's specific.
Let's put it this way, one of the things when people tell me about their moving from one city to another.
I have a phrase that nobody likes, which is every place is over.
Oh, moving to Austin. Yeah, it's over.
Miami. It's over.
Nashville over.
Yeah, all these places are over.
And every occupation that is named is over.
I'm gonna be a dentist.
Yeah.
Radiologist.
Accountant.
Teacher.
These are all over.
Whatever's coming.
Get flexible.
Get good.
Get good on a bunch of different stuff.
Learn to think across disciplines.
I have no idea what what's gonna be left for us.
But you know, somebody's gonna come out on top.
And I I hate to tell people that you should try to come out on top.
I don't think it's healthy to have everyone trying to be
World class.
Think you should be able to just have a life.
I have a golden retriever.
I don't know that it's the greatest golden retriever in the world.
Sometimes I think it is, but
There's a lot of dumb stuff.
But he's my golden retriever. I just don't think it
I think that this
Mania for optimization.
Like if you look at your own videos, you'll find
Some of the best performing videos.
Or.
This is how to succeed.
This is how to get anyone you want.
This is how to get out of a bad situation. People just want
Capacity.
But for what?
Okay, you've optimized your day, you've optimized your health.
Your social media's optimized.
Now what?
No.
I don't know.
W what should be then
So you know, is it the is it time to just
Ps one would say, Well now I c one would incorrectly say, Well now I can play with my golden retriever, and then one would say, Well, you should have been playing with your golden retriever the whole time.
Let me put it a little differently.
Through some bizarre accident.
I've gotten a chance to meet
incredible people that I don't even talk about who I've met.
You know.
I've got a chance to see the world. I haven't seen South America, but I've seen
Most of the other contents that
Other than that.
The Antarctic.
I've had a really
Rich life.


Those opportunities.
But they got a chance to have three kids.
I'm not sure I wouldn't trade places.
I so enjoyed raising my children.
It's available to everyone.
It it's such a strange thing that we're talking about optimization about all this stuff. I I get to think about the the substrate of the universe.
Theoretical physics.
I dream about visiting the stars.
I dream about multiple dimensions of time, meeting aliens, all sorts of things.
I still think having kids with like
Unbeatable.
I'm so sad that it's over.
I'm so sad that they moved out.
I cannot believe that I was dumb enough to live in a society that doesn't believe
And having your kids with you your whole life.
The idea that we look at places where kids live at home as backwards is beyond me.
And shout out to uh the entire Indian subcontinent.
You know, it's just like
Family is everything. They drive me crazy.
But it it's just
Meaning is available for you.
And again.
Yeah.
Every time I get a chance to eat a rumbo time.
It's one of my favorite fruits.
Mangoes, rhombutons, jackfruit.
Seat the fall if you can get custard apple.
The amount of pleasure I get.
I've never had a good custard apple in the entire time I've lived in the US. Not one.
I've had a frozen one imported from Taiwan.
You get this Cherimoya. Just get out of here, Cherimoya. You're not good.
Great custard apple. Great seed to fall around fall.
What a pleasure.
To be on this earth.
And it's available.
To almost anyone.
I just think that you can find meaning.
Yeah.
For God's sake.
go to Spotify if you have a a connection, if you can afford a connection to Spotify.
And put in Pablo Casal's version of the Bachella suites.
You're as rich as you need to be.
I've flown private. I'd much
Prefer.
To listen to Pablo Casal's playing the
It's an economy.

To be deprived of real luxury.
I don't know, I just uh to me
Meaning is everywhere.
I can't swing a cat without hitting meaning.
Have you always been like that?
Or is that something that you've cultivated?
The the point about being able to swing a cat and find meaning, so many people that will be listening now.
Could swing a
A hundred mile.
stick and wouldn't hit meaning in their lives.
But you seem to be able to find it in the
The purer things, the more simple things.
I'm wondering if that's something that we can all cultivate with a change of perspective or if it's
Just the way that you've always been.
Why is Joe Rogan such a big deal?
You ever listen to Joe Rogan talk about pugilism?
Two gentlemen beating the crap out of each other.
As poetry.
It's chess.
I I could listen to Joe talk about MMA.
For days.
Yeah.
You know?
The story of Mighty Mouse.
The guy trapped in some I don't know.
flyweight division with unbelievable skills who never gets to meet
A formidable enemy.
You know?
Do you think that's a privilege? Do you think that there's a privilege in being able to craft a story because so much of the meaning you're describing now comes from these st great stories and not everybody
is able to craft the story upon seeing something, you probably look at this item in front of me, this glass, and create a story about it that drives meaning, that makes you feel something. I worry about its manufacturer. How is it?
That we got a surface of revolution. What what is what is the industrial process? How do I take a picture of this and get it?
A photograph of the machine that made it. You know that fly that has been buzzing around us this entire interview? Do you remember when Obama had a fly?
Yeah, and he caught it in

Yeah.
The confidence of that man.
See, I'd try that and I'd miss and I'd screw it up in front of many other people.
You know.
It's like I I took so much meaning away from that fly.
Were you trying to, or is that just a sort of previous yeah, all did.
Not everyone.
Some people would have gone. How was it that you
knew exactly what I was talking about.
Because he captured a moment.
He was the girl in the red dress.
No, there's this thing that women say, not every woman can wear red.
Well not every man.
You can grab a fly with confidence.
I think I think we all see this.
I think we all see beauty everywhere.
Remember that movie American Beauty with the the plastic bag that gets in the
Air funnel going up.
And the key point is the ability just
To see beauty wherever you find it.
You know, everything behind you m means something to me.
The letter B.
Uh strange to me that there's only one phonetic alphabet and that every phonetic alphabet is descended from it.
You know?

Uh
I basically view everything as a hyperlink. I just want to click on the world and see what it goes to.
Not everybody does, though.
But we do.
They don't make the step, is what I'm saying,'cause people would see the B and nothing would cross their conscious mind.
There's an absolutely horrible account.
That has been just dogging me for years trying to make my life miserable.
And
A social media account. Yeah.
Doesn't matter. Yeah.
And the person said, You know, one thing I just never understand is
He's not
He's not hawking a book.
He's just talking.
Wha why are his numbers high?
The answer is everybody cares about.
Stuff.
They want an invitation.
One of the funniest things that gets said about me on social media is he goes on forever and he never says anything.
And then like I look at the word clouds of things that I
I've talked about people just Googling everything incessantly.
You know, if you didn't know who Pablo Casals was, now you do.
Now you know what a real cello sounds like.
Um
I don't know. I just
Can't believe that I'm so far through this life and that there's so little left.
Can't believe this doesn't go off her.
That for thee?
Yeah.
My people just got hit.
And
Yeah, you want to talk about the river and the sea.
That river is not
The Jordan River.
And that sea is not the Mediterranean.
The Arab world stretches from the Atlantic
With Morocco.
Right up to the
What is it?
Shah Allah Rabbi, a waterway that divides Iraq.
From Iran.
And I don't think
This is stable.
There is no way in which
We should be fighting like this.
This is ridiculous.
Trump.
Trump.
Use the F word.
And he's getting taking a ton of crap.
Why would you use the F well well i isn't it interesting that people view Trump as so tacky.
You know, he's
He's got this queen sort of
Bluster. He doesn't
Doesn't reek of uh
Finalist clubs at Harvard or
Skull and bones or whatever.
No.
Trump doesn't use the F word for a reason.
But he needs it once in a blue moon and it better mean something.
And he said this to Iran and he said this to Israel.
These two p two countries have been
Fighting for so long.
They don't know what the fuck they're doing.
He didn't make a mistake.
The rest of the world has just forgotten how to calibrate.
What do you see Trump in?
How is he clothed?
He's almost always in a suit and tie.
And he almost never says the F word.
And it's carefully calibrated to get everybody's attention and we're so
Asleep that we don't even hear it.
This is World War Three.
And it's already started.
Biden was there.
In the oval office.
Non compassmentus.
And I was being told don't worry, there's a
committee that's replaced him.
Because I was talking about the fact that he can't be president.
I I just don't know what we're doing.
I'm so mystified by everybody else. You know, it's like Elon makes sense to me.
I'm not Elon.
very different person, but at least Elon makes sense to me.
Not a hundred percent, but ninety eight percent Elon makes sense to me. It's everybody else that I'm completely confused about.
What part of what Elon is saying makes so much sense to you?
Oh, jeez, everything.
One, we have to have babies. We have to keep going.
Two.
It can't all be about problems.
You have to be excited to be alive every morning.
You have to work your ass off your whole life. You wanna know one of the most beautiful things that ever happened?
Somebody telling you.
That he was the world's richest human being.
He said, Huh.
It's interesting.
Okay, back to work.
Amazing, right?
There's no reward.
That he can't have.
More of by stopping work and enjoying his wealth, except doing stuff.
Mm
I was born in this country.
My
Parents were born in this country.
My grandparents on one side were not
But my grandparents on the other side were
Elon is so American.
That cowboy spirit
The it
He does all sorts of stuff I can't stand. I don't wanna see one more of those Pepe memes ever.
I really don't. What the fuck is his problem?
Okay.
I don't know him at all.
But Elon at his best is
is the United States.
You know?
Anything is possible here.
And we and we just waste our lives on
Inner personal drama.
He wastes his life to an enormous extent as a troll.
I cannot
That's the part of him that I don't understand is one why he's not focused one hundred percent on physics.
I think he sees it as going through grok and AI. He doesn't want to trust humans.
I think he sees Mars as energizing to engineers.
And the stars are enervating to engineers because the science there's no amount of engineer you can't engineer your way to the stars with the science we have.
But
He he's he's being a complete pussy when it comes to science and he's being a total hero when it comes to engineering.
Um
But he is the quintessential American.
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A second ago you said you can't believe it doesn't go on forever.
Yeah.
You or the universe or
I can't believe my story doesn't go on for look, I've never died before, so I have no experience with it. So as f as far as I know.
I've always been alive.
And it'll always go on that way.
But there's another thing that you know I I've talked about occasionally.
Which is I'm not the most public spirited human being.
You know, I I am somebody who will take the last
The last Rombo T.
You know, and I know that you're not supposed to do that in almost any culture on earth, but sometimes it's just sitting there and it bothers me.
Okay. So I'm not the I'm not the classiest person on earth.
But I'll tell you something. If you have a kid
And you have a choice about eating the Rambutan yourself or giving the Rambutan to your child. This it's a no brainer. You're gonna enjoy the Rambutan so much more if you give it to your kid.
Uh you'll see.
Mm.
And that's the way in which this goes on forever.
That's great.
I mean just
How many young people do I have to yell at?
I don't know if I want to have kids. I don't want to bring anyone into this horrible world.
What do you think?
It bothers you I can I can see it personally bothers you.
Do you have any idea how much hate there is right now for Israel?
Do you have any idea how
destabilizing this action against Iran was.
Do you have any idea how many people have suffered for how long?
Under the Mullers.
We are being cheated of Persia.
I'm not talking about
Iran for the Persians.
I'm talking about
We are cheated.
Persia.
The entire planet.
One of the greatest societies on earth taken off a lot.
Look.
You're catching me on the wrong week.
And I don't want to dwell on it.
Th this is just incredibly irresponsible.
We're not gonna survive.
Israel is certainly not gonna survive this.
If the Abrahamic world does not get its head out of its ass.
If the Christian world does not start to stand up for itself without becoming this Christ's king nightmare.
You know, I was in Tel Aviv before this all happened, and I I just said it from the stage, make the Middle East Christian again.
Th does nobody understand their role is sort of my question.
How can you have Bethlehem without
A strong Christian presence.
Have you ever been to the church of the Holy Sepulchre?
No.
Can I give you another assignment?
Yeah.
Get off your ass and go. You got the money.
Walk the stations of the cross.
And for God's sakes, stop with the issue about belief.
You can pray like the rest of us. We're not sure if we're praying. We're not sure if the thing is hooked up and anyone's listening.
Uh.
You have the right to go back even with doubt, even with knowledge.
And you have the right to believe about it tomorrow.
You know, where where you're not going to be, but people are gonna be mentioning your name.
When you say that you're
Your people are under attack.
Who are you referencing as your people?
I w would in general
There's
several groups of people that I would describe as my people.
The Jews would be one, dyslexics would be another, Americans would be another.
Scientists would be another.
It depends on on what these think. But right now I'm thinking about the Jews and I'm thinking about the fact that the social media
businesses have lost complete control.
Of
Uh the bot farms.
And we're just seeing this unbel I I I feel like I'm living through the nineteen thirties again.
I uh we've seen this movie before.
It doesn't end well.
You know what happened in Gaza.
is an unbelievable tragedy.
And that tragedy was partially architected by the United States of America, shoving a two state solution down the throats.
Of Palestinian Arabs who absolutely do not want a two state solution.
And the creation.
In part.
of the situation where Israel has a hand, the US has a hand, the Palestinian Arabs have a hand.
Creation of Hamas.
And the and the promotion of this just
Unbelievable genius sinwar.
The leader of Hamas.
Who is continuing to best BB Danyahu from the grave.
Yeah, it's just an amazing feat.
Nobody reads anymore, as you know.
Um
There's an old Sherlock Holmes story called The Problem at Thor Bridge. Ever heard of it?
Um
So you're British.
Um
Sherlock Holmes gets called in on a case in which
Um
There's a murder.
And the murder.
Is traced.
The murder is traced to this gentleman who still exists.
Uh
What Sherlock Holmes figures out
Is that it's not a murder, it's a suicide in which the gun
Well
fall into the
Never.
At Thor Bridge because it's tied to a weight.
And the person uses the suicide.
To frame someone else.
Yeah, it's just one of these genius little
Vignettes. And that's what Sinwar was. He was a a genius.
He he knew he was gonna die.
Who was Sinwa? Sinwa is the person who
Who's committed suicide.
Sin Sinwar's suicide was an IDF.
Assisted suicide.
I wrote about this almost instantly after the October seventh invasion.
It didn't make any sense.
that Gaza would undertake.
such an act against Israel given the asymmetry.
And
But this mirrored was that before the nineteen nineties.

Committed suicide to then cause
The people of Gaza to invade Israel.
No, no, no.
Sidmore would be happy enough for all the Gazans to die.
And so
What he did was he architected a situation in which Israel
would be compelled to respond using the wrong tools.
He tricked Israel.

I I'm very confident to r to talk about this because
If you check my old tweets, I say IDF assisted suicide.
And Munkhausen by proxy and Zugzwang.
Right, and I said these are the concepts familiarize w yourself because Israel is going to invade
Gaza.
And I knew what was gonna happen because
Took me like why would you do this? It doesn't make sense.
From
first order logic, but third and fourth order logic, you're like, Oh, of course it makes sense.
This is hybrid war. The most important thing for Sinwar is video.
Why?
Look at the effect of the video.
The video of Gaza.
has turned the world to an extent against Israel that's sort of inconceivable.
There's a doctrine called hybrid warfare.
And I think it came out of
The U S in the early two thousands.
And it says that the kinetic component of warfare, the killing, the actual shooting and the planes and the bombs and all this kinda stuff.
Is
Not the major component.
The social media is really important.
The video is important.
The mimetic complex is important.
And
Israel has an advantage.
over the Gaza and Arabs.
In kinetic warfare.
And then one knew that. He was like
Brilliant.
All we need to do is force Israel to come after us. And this is this thing I was gonna say before the nineteen nineties.
We had a spate of killings.
Of policemen.
Firing on people who had pulled toy guns on them.
And we would we would say things and I remember this like
Whatever you do, don't point a toy gun at a policeman. You're it's don't you realize what's gonna happen?

Police assisted suicide.
The policeman is the instrument.
That's what I knew was gonna happen.
And for better or for worse, B just couldn't figure out.
Where it was.
And B B was dumber and Sinwar was smarter.
Is it
Is there any way back from here?
Because you said this is World War Three.
Well the y the the wave there th there is, but it's slim and it's evaporating.
I mean, almost everything depends on Saudi Arabia and the
And the Iran ans.
The Persians.
If the Persians didn't take this opportunity to rise up against their oppressors,
I don't know what they're waiting for.
Yes, you're gonna get killed in some numbers, but
You have to figure out whether you're interested in tyranny or not.
So the Persians are absolutely falling down on the ground, uh on the job.
Not
rising up against the mulas.
This is a coordinated moment. Like you know, there's there's a moment for a prison break.
This would be it.
Who are the Mullers?
The Ayatollahs, the government of Iran. I mean, yeah, the the the theocratic government of Iran. So the rulers of Iran, basically, the people that are So I I don't know if if you if you know a a ton of Persians, th they're varied in their religiosity.
But there's a you know, there's an underground gay scene in Tehran. There's
super hyper modern.
People
Just like you and me who can't stand these guys.
Yeah.
And so you're saying that if they rise up that would be one of the parts of the solution.
The other thing is Saudi Arabia and and
I have to be very measured and careful here.
Um
You can't
fantasize about the Middle East becoming
Western Europe overnight.
Every time we do this we make a terrible mistake.
When you have a modernizer like MBS in Saudi Arabia.
He's the ruler of Saudi Arabia, right? De facto.
He can't
suddenly become a modern person. So, you know, if if if we end up talking about Khashoggi and murders and the murdered journalists and all this stuff, the whole conversation will do real.
But he's a modernizer.
And there was a moment
Where he needed
To not
Condemn Israel publicly and thank it privately.
But to say
We've all been terrorized by this country.
And Israel did what everyone
Needed.
We needed to rise up against the mulas because you can't have a nuclear theocracy.
You can't have a highly developed notion of heaven.
Where this is the
This is the ante room where you're waiting to get into the real room.
That issue.
Of
Mm.
Needing to be
Rid of an aspect.
aspiring nuclear theocracy.
Something that in that
Israel undertook. Now
Something that I'm gonna say.
There are three words in Yiddish which you may have heard or may not may not. Shlemil, Shlomazil, and Nebuch
So
There are three
unfortunate people. You don't want to be any one of those three. But the subtlety is that
The Schlamille.
Is a klutz.
And the Schlamiel spills hot soup.
on the schlamozzle so the schlamozzle is the unfortunate person to whom bad things happen
And then never.
is the weak ineffectual person who
Decides that it's
His job to clean up the mess.
So the Schlamel spills the scalding hot soup on the Schlamazel and the Nebuch cleans it up.
Now in the US
We've got this terrible sort of Christian nationalist.
uh problem that we've developed, which is what sometimes people call the woke right.
Well
We have a bunch of people who've been badly treated.
White Christian Americans have been badly treated in the woke era.
They've been forced to salute everybody else's
Yeah.
Yay for uh you know, I don't know.
Honduran.
Lesbian's Day. And and it's like okay, enough. We don't we don't wanna do that anymore. We've also done great things and
I absolutely think that they've been mistreated.
Yeah.
And they've gone sort of metastatic.
And their attitude is no more wars for Israel. America first.
what I was getting to with the Slamash Slamasl and the Nebuchadnezzar.
Is that most Americans don't have any idea who Kermit Roosevelt was. Do you have any idea of who Kermit?
So the US
In the UK jointly.
Overthrough.
A democratically elector in Iran.
through something called operation Ajax.
We installed the Shaw.
And then there's this period where everybody stupidly celebrates the mini skirts and the jazz that was going through Tehran.
Which was a bridge too far.
In other words, the mini skirts were a really bad idea.
Because they weren't re they were ready for some amount of modernization and they weren't ready for that.
And so we pushed it too far.
And so we got the mulas for forty years, and now we chop off people's
fingers and we pluck out people's eyes and we
Yeah.

from crazy. They're barbaric bare.
They're horrible human beings.
Okay. These are really bad men.
The Molas.
And we did that.
So the scalding hot soup.
Yeah.
Revolutionary
Theocratic Iran.
And we spilled it all over the Middle East.
which is the Schlamazzle.
We spilled it on Saudi Arabia. We spilled it.
On Iraq, we spilled it on Israel.
Everybody suffers from having these people installed because of
the US and the UK.
Instituting a problem back in the fifties.
And who's the Nav?
Who cleans this up?
Israel volunteers.
For this job.
And then Saudi Arabia pretends, Oh my god, this is terrible.
Our our Muslim brother is being attacked by our Jewish uh barbarian
I I I just can't believe anybody's
Dumb enough to fall for all.
Like
We're involved in a story where nobody can sort things out. There's no talking heads anyone believes in.
And if I didn't understand this, then how is it that I have a tweet
From you know.
Ten days after October seventh, or I appeared on trigonometry, I'm telling Israel hasn't even walked into Gaza yet.
And I know what the strategy is.
Iran sent hypersonic missiles into the ground in Israel.
As a message.
Violence is a language, and they spoke it well.
The the Mullins may be crazy, but they're still Persians.
They're they're extraordinarily skilled.
And so what they did is they wasted some of their arsenal saying you have no iron dome.
And we're not gonna kill you.
We're gonna put our missiles, we're gonna waste our missiles by sending them into your earth and try to kill no one.
And the Israelis.
These brilliant genius Israelis who pull off all sorts of things that the world can't believe.
Are dumb enough, some of them.
Say.
They send all these missiles and they couldn't even hit anyone.
And I'm just thinking
D d do none of you understand anything?
I I just don't even know where I am.
And I I'm looking at
You know, I I I know Tulsi.
Telsey Gabbot the
Tulsie's amazing. She's the head of the intelligence program for the United States.
Director of National Intelligence, right?
Tulsi.
Has seen the devastation not of war, but of
US action abroad. Like we haven't really had full wars, but we get involved in Afghanistan or Iraq or wherever.
And you know, people die and there are firefights. It's not like it has nothing to do with war, but
full on war is a is a very different thing. We t we say the Iraq war, but I
I I wanna be very careful about the language.
You know, w w w war usually involves you getting
rocked at home, not just your your troops abroad.
I don't think she
I don't think she appreciates the gravity of the situation. That somehow what we need to do is we need to stabilize this thing.
For fifty to a hundred years.
While we desperately try to figure out a long term solution.
This idea of like just
We're not taking responsibility for the world we already screwed up.
I don't wanna send Americans.
I you know, I'm not an Israeli, I'm an American.
I don't wanna send
My fellow Americans.
to die in foreign battles that we have no business being in but
We have to take ownership.
of our history with oil and energy in the Middle East.
What does that look like taking on a ship?
Recognizing that we created the mulas.
And doing what about it?
Along with Sinwar.
And to a much lesser extent Israel.
By foisting this two state solution.
On people who would never put up with it.
Like I I lived in in Israel for two years.
You would have conversations with Arabs.
Some of whom are Israelis.
You know?
And they would say look
You know, you just don't understand the West Bank and you don't understand the the difference between the West Bank and Gaza.
And they would tell me straight up.
You're going to get us all killed with this two state solution. Stop it.
And I you know, it's very hard for me to hear.
But w w we're just having a child's conversation about the Middle East.
And I will say this about the UK.
The British Foreign Service
had a different failure mode than the US. They really learned the regions.
They learned the dialects of the languages of the countries that they were
involved in the British Empire took
many places that they w were involved in seriously. And they have a very complicated legacy. You know, I'm
I spent a lot of time in Bombay and there's a lot of debate among very educated
Indians.
about figuring out how to think about the the British legacy all the great institutional
structures that were built, all of the
Prejudice and bigotry.
Why was uh such a small country able to colonize such a large land, basically working with the locals, you know?
It's a rich conversation. We're having childlike conversations about all of this.
I'm sorry if I'm going on about this, but
It's just a very weird thing that we're
We can't get anybody's attention.
You can't even get my attention, you know, I I'm watching
Hypersonic missiles slam into the places I just was.
And then I'm watching a cat video.
And then I'm trying to figure out what to order through Uber Eats, and it's just like I can't stay focused.
It's really important to put this uh
To put this right.
And the US screwed up the Middle East along with the UK really good.
And we have a lot of responsibility and if we want to go isolationist, I understand that.
But you first have to put
Back the chicken soup that you spilled.
And how did you do that?
I'm not sure.
I'm not the director of national intelligence. I'm not
I'm not the secretary of defense. I'm not
In the oval osp. I mean, you know, it's it's very weird. I was
Workmates with J D Vance.
You know?
These these are people who are
You know, Bobby Kennedy lives one canyon over from me in Los Angeles.
The people around
Power.
In the US
Godspeed. You know, just just wish them well.
I don't care what party you're in.
But to to try to sabotage Trump or
Sabotage Tulsi or sabotage.
Pete Higgs.
These guys need to figure this out and they need to be at a totally different level.
And he's figuring it out.
Peace in the region.

You know the piece with
Between Egypt and Israel is a shitty, crappy, horrible piece.
But it's peace.
It's not a loving relationship.
It's not a question of everybody going back and forth between the two countries saying, you know, we used to be
Enemies now we're friends. It's a lousy cold piece.
I'll take it.
We need to have peace between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs who can live in peace.
And we need the people who cannot live in peace.
We need to find some place else for them to be.
It is absolutely imperative.
And it by the way, this goes for the Israelis.
There are small number of hardcore Israeli cell holders who cannot live
Uh
you know, in peace with their neighbors.
It's very important that the people who cannot live in peace not be there.
Do we need to go to are are you suggesting that we
Focus on regime change in Iran?
That is really the responsibility of the Persians.
So I wanna I wanna get clear on
what you see as a solution because you're saying the Persian people have to rise up
The US need to care but not get involved in
That
Regime change.
A bunch of things need to happen if we're to have a long term solution.
I make you president tomorrow.
I hate when people do this. But I it's the clearest way of understanding the actions you would first of all, if I was president tomorrow, I sure as hell wouldn't be on a podcast discussing strategy with you.
Trump does it.
Yeah, but I decline to answer all sorts of questions on camera. Fair. Yeah.
So m my feeling is that you do a lot more behind closed doors. And this idea of just handing people
You're the king of the world. What do you do tomorrow to stop you know, it's like don't do that to me,'cause it's just it's a no win question.
If I was gonna I I do a lot of stressing communication, I'd meet with people in private.
I'd use lots of carrots and sticks. I try to use long range thinking.
And I wouldn't tell you what my plan is. And by the way.
I very much respect.
Donald Trump in certain ways, one of which is that and this confuses our friend Sam Harris, no end.
Sam is always like well he's not being truthful, he's not making sense. He's a negotiator.
You don't sit down to a negotiation with an open book saying let me make sense to you.
You sit there saying, You don't know what I'm gonna do next.
You don't know how big the stick is.
You don't know how much carrot there is?
Maybe I'm prepared to give you more.
Maybe my stick isn't as big as you think, or maybe it's twice as big.
Do you think anyone has o good answers?
I'll be honest, I think that Trump.
Is in part respected because he has some intuitions.
About this stuff.
His intuition is not to say everything.
His intuition is that negotiation is more important than transparency.
And it at a time when everybody's
craving transparency. Tell me everything.
No.
I'm not gonna tell you everything.
I'm gonna try to save some children today.
I'm gonna threaten.
I'm gonna control.
I'm gonna do all sorts of things.
And and you know, that's what I do.
I would I would assemble the best people around me.
I would stop giving so many press conferences. I wouldn't tweet every four seconds. I'd be extremely strategic about it.
But
You know, the situation
In Tel Aviv.
And in Gaza makes me sick to my stomach.
And in and in Ukraine.
Almost all of my DNA comes from Ukraine.
least pass through it.
I've been there.
And you know
Russians in Ukraine Ukraine used to be known as Little Russia.
This is a d how are we sitting here watching this?
What Moron decided in two thousand and four
That we were just going to hand full article five status.
To former Soviet
Republics without consequence.
І із на кас.
That I don't
I would love to have.
Estonia.
Latvia and Lithuania.
in NATO.
Not at this cost.
Look.
The world is a brutal, brutal place.
We've gotten really bad at at international
Understandings.
I can't stand what's happened to Europe.
Europe has been completely denatured.
We're we're playing with fire everywhere and I just
I don't know how to talk about it because
Every time I talk about things where I'm the only person who sounds like this.
It's bad for my life.
Look, i if if you're in general a a Ukraine hawk and you say
Yeah, we we need to make sure that U Ukraine is completely supported so that they don't give an inch of territory.
Yeah, you'll take a lot of crap, but you'll be in a large group.
And if you basically have the idea that Russia, you know, was minding its own business and the US
was encircling it and good Russia, bad US.
You'll have a lot of company for that perspective.
I don't sound like any of that.
most important thing is to stabilize the world again, and we're not gonna get another chance like World War Two if we're not smart.
We're crazy to give up this order that we have and
Again, you know, one more time I'm talking about this stuff and I don't want to be talking about
Stop.
Elon is a hundred percent right. We can't talk about problems all
It's cheap meaning.
There's an entire universe to explore.
And we're sitting here focused on our own drama.
Always.
And I'm getting sucked into it. I don't want it.
I wanna be talking about
Travelling.
Through time and space.
Using
Easter eggs and hidden features of what we thought was the space time continuum.
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I've got this uh
Yeah.

Tell me.
Um, well I'd I'd love you to tell me this is the flower of life
Yeah.
And I was
I was reading through some of your work and I came across this sentence that said, You'd kept a secret for thirty years.
in terms of your belief about the nature of the reality that we live in and that you thought maybe it was more than
Just the dimensions we experienced. Maybe there was
Fourteen dimensions.
I've always w I wonder this a lot, you know,'cause we we're fixated on
problems. We're fixated on what we see and what we hear and what we feel. But I wonder sometimes if
If even that is an illusion. I I've spent a lot of time actually thinking recently about the simulation theory and is this whole reality just some simulation on some kids' video game and another
Dimension.
Um
So I thought you know you're a physicist. Do me a favor.
Put that in a triangle pattern here.
Okay. So we have three mugs.
Think of those as vertices of a tetrahedron.
And think of this coaster floating here as the fourth vertex.
Mm-hmm.
For every
Two vertices. So the number of vertices we would agree is four.
Yeah. What's what's his vertice mean?
Points. Yeah.
One two three four.
Things and this is points. Mm-hmm.
Draw a line segment.
Between
All of these four vertices. How many line segments are there?
Well
Two, three.
Oh
Five.
Six.
Six? Yep.
So there's six edges.
Four vertices.
How many triangular faces that have three vertices on them?
Oh full.
Yeah.
This is how to think about the actual dimensions that we have open to us. The four faces we know about.
The key point that I was trying to get at is
I don't believe that you just have the four dimensions
I believe that you have
All six edges are dimensions.
And all
Four vertices are also dimensions.
I'm talking about a hidden world.
It's very interesting.
Physics has gone stagnant.
In terms of how we usually measure progress. The w the way we measure progress is
The change in something called the action or the Lagrangian, the specialized device.
And that used to change a lot, and then in nineteen seventy three it stopped changing.
The major thing that we have is we have no new ideas about how to change the Lagrangian

Anybody finds that
exciting or interesting. So there's been no progress. Nobody goes to Stockholm to get a Nobel Prize because they changed the Lagrangian of the world.
What's the Lagrangian?
The Lagrangian
Mm.
You probably think about physics in terms of equations.
Like Maxwell's equations or the Einstein equations, or whatever.
Think about it an equation.
As being
Not the primary thing that physicists
Think about it.
So I give this example.
The Beatles had four basically different configurations.
When Ringo was
Four the front man, he was singing Octopus's Garden.
George Harrison is
Singing while my guitar gently weeps.
You know, uh
Paul is thinking about Penny Lane and John is thinking about Strawberry Fields Forever.
Those four equations
Those would be
Those
Different configurations of the Beatles, with one of them front and everybody else backing the front man.
would be the equations, but the Beatles would be the Lagrangian.
It's the thing that generates the four different configurations. Okay.
And there's this bizarre force field that anybody who wants to talk about
Physics.
And doing something new, in particular leaving.
Or traversing time.
Or multiple dimensions of time. Anything that's really close to
What might be possible.
Get slammed.
We don't know why.
Because
It's very cheap to explore ideas and we have no new ideas.
But the only thing about a new idea in physics
Is that a new idea changes the balance of power in the world?
So remember the thing I was saying about Alpha Fold Three?
Yeah.
Alpha Fold three changed the balance of power in the world.
Bitcoin changed the balance of power in the world.
The diffuse proposal.
From the Eco Health Alliance.
change the balance of power in the world if that was the source of the Covid virus.
Anytime somebody has a really big idea.
And the biggest idea and you know.
I talk about this, people don't grasp it.
Probably the most dangerous thought anyone has ever had.
was Rutherford in nineteen eleven saying
I wonder whether it's
There's a neutral version of the proton.
It doesn't sound dangerous.
But it's hard to send a proton into a bunch of protons because it's positively charged, and a massive nucleus is really positively charged, and so there's a repulsion.
If there's a neutral version of the proton and these things are barely stuck together with the strong force, even though they're trying to scream away from each other because they want they're all positively charged.
You can send a neutral version of the proton right into the center.
Tap. I'm just imagine you have a bunch of magnets that are trying to flee from each other and the velcro around them is barely holding it together.
So now you've got
You have a bullet in the form of a neutral proton, a neutron.
And it hits this thing where the magnets want to come apart and the Velcro is barely holding it together.
Well that idea.
led to the chain reaction.
And the nuclear bomb? Well that that was the fission bar.
And then
A geometer.
So I'm a geometer.
And not a physicist.
And a physicist named Edward Teller, and the geometer is named Stanislaus Ulong.
Said.
I wonder if there's a way to take
The chemical bomb.
That creates the fission bomb.
And use the fission bomb as the detonator for a fusion bomb.
So
Bomb number one.
Number two, bomb number three.
What they figured out was is that
The only way to create that
is to reflect light.
In a particular way.
To compress.
Hydrogen into helium and release.
Energy.
Because anything other than light wouldn't get
To the
the tertiary stage fast enough.
before the atomic bomb like you're using a Hiroshima Nagasaki as a detonator.
That's how crazy it is.
So that
Chao ID.
Which is maybe there's a neutral version of the proton.
Maybe I can send that into the middle of an atom that's very heavy that was built in a stellar collision.
Maybe if I have a bunch of those
uranium or plutonium type things, each one when they break apart will have more neutrons inside. That is more neutral protons that will hit more nuclei.
That will release more energy.
And maybe that can then focus the light, the gamma radiation that comes off of this thing, or who knows what.

A narrow rod.
To create
fusion which only occurs on the sun.
In the sun.
But but do it on earth. So we're gonna take a little bit of the sun.
On earth.
That chain of ideas.
Was the most dangerous thing anybody's ever thunk.
And that's why when you try to do physics, you don't know why are people making fun of me? Why are they being mean? Why are they dissuading me from talking?
I don't know.
You have a suspicion.
Well,
There was a guy named Jack Raper.
The unfortunately named Mr Jack Raper.
Who was a reporter in Cleveland.
Who for some reason during the war in nineteen forty four decided to vacation in
New Mexico.
So he goes to New Mexico and he comes back and he says, I've got a crazy story.
There's a city.
that nobody knows about with a mayor.
Who's supposed to be the second Einstein.
And it's the most secretive city in the world.
And the mayor.
Is working on a doomsday weapon, and even the people who live in the city don't know what it is.
And he writes the story of Los Alamos and publishes it in nineteen forty four.
The scoop of the millennium to say nothing of the century. Nobody knows about this article.
And it's called Forbidden City.
We pretended that it never happened.
For those that don't know Los Alamos is where
the atomic the uh nuclear bomb was I guess
conceived and brought to life and tested.
It was really
It was really designed there.
And
Most of the
nuclear processing took place at other sites, whether Hanford or Oak Ridge, I'm not sure.
And it was tested a a short distance away.
Uh at the Trinity site.
So go watch the movie Oppenheimer, if you will. But this is why physics
Physicists are the only occupation in the country that doesn't have full free speech.

So are you suggesting that there's dangers in
Leaving
In more dimensions that
Maybe some people might not want

Mike
Point is
I don't think our government
knows the real secrets of physics.
If I had to make a bet tomorrow.
I don't think there's a secret government office that knows physics.
Okay. Mm-hmm.
I think that there were
Bunch of very smart people who knew how dangerous physics
was and that the idea that we would continue to do it in public
struck them as insane.
Because it's
Could lead to destruction.
When I tell you that the most dangerous idea in human history is maybe there's a neutral version of the proton, that's supposed to sound insane.
Yeah.
But the entire
chain of ideas, results.
In nuclear fusion happening on Earth.
At the direction of the president of the United States.
And that's what I'm trying to get at, which people don't understand, which is
You probably don't even realize that the department of energy is really the department of physics.
Because we we we pretend that it's
The department of energy. Like we had a war department that became the department of defense.
We're scared of the possibility of physics. We don't even want to talk about it.
Yeah.
literally no other occupation.
has
Lost free speech.
Like physics.
There's a special doctrine called restricted data.
That says
You cannot
Right.
Physics on a napkin.
Even if you have nothing to do with the government, I think even if you're not an American.
If it has anything.
that could possibly have to do with nuclear weapons.
In other words, any advance.
That might have to do with nuclear weapons.
You have to recognize that the instant you put pen to paper or you start talking to somebody.
You're committing
A violation of the nineteen seventeen Espionage Act.
And if you think that's crazy, start exploring the words restricted data, nineteen seventeen Espionage Act, 1946 and 1954 Atomic Energy Acts.
The doctrine of born secret.
It is illegal to pursue
Q clearance data, if you don't have a Q clearance, but if you're creating Q clearance data out of your own head as a byproduct of trying to do physics.
You are actually potentially committing a capital offense.
And your theory of everything.
Your theory the theory you just talked to me about there. What does that mean for the for the average person that's listening to this?
We don't know. Did Rutherford
Know what he was doing.
No.
I talk about this a lot, but I do think it's probably one of the greatest lyrics.
Ever in any song.
And unfortunately it occurs in
A song that got way too popular.
Um
The baffled king composing Hallelujah. That line.
A baffled king does not realize what he is doing.
When he composes.
Rutherford was a baffled king.
Maybe there is a neutral version of the proton.
He was composing the end of the human race.
And your ideas about the
Nature of reality.
And your proposal.
I'm I am baffled.
I don't know what it leads to, is what I'm trying to tell you.
There's more than this dimension that we understand and more than I think.
I can name for you what particles there are left to be found.
Mm-hmm.
And the what comes back to me
Is you don't have any predictions, and I'm thinking.
This doesn't even make sense.
Literally I'm telling you there are
Maybe there's a neutral version of the proton doesn't begin to talk about all the things that I'm talking about.
So many new forces.
So many new particles.
Ways to go.
Yeah.
There's no longer an arrow of time in my theory.
So you could live forever, theoretically. What does it mean?
If if you think about a final theory
And again, by the way, I just want to say something.
I say my theory sometimes when I'm having to defend it.
But it isn't mine.
Yeah, it
It just is.
You know.
Everest didn't belong
To Sir Edmund Hillary or to Mallory.
Or even to the surveyor for whom
The mountain is named.
When you chose
To make the first descent on E Everest.
You just chose a route.
And then you i either did or did not traverse the route. We don't know whether Mallory may have succeeded.
But my point is that
This isn't my theory.
There is a theory that's there.
It might be wrong.
It's possible.
I may have screwed it up.
But
It's got so much in it that I have no idea what it means.
And the simple way to understand this theory is that there's dimensions that exist beyond the ones that we know.
We already know from Einstein.
That these dimensions are implicitly
In Einstein's theory.
Every single dimension that I'm talking about.
is being constructed out of the four that we began with. When I
Put the cups here and the coaster.
The edges were calculated from the vertices and the faces were calculated from the edges.
My point being
These dimensions are already here.
And because the dimensions are already here.
They were already present in Einstein's theory all along. When you ask for what Einstein's real equation is.
We actually don't think about it that way. We call it the Einstein field equations plural.
How many of them are there?
Ten.
Why are there ten?
Because there are
Six edges.
And four vertices.
that weren't accounted for.
They're already in Einstein's theory.
We just didn't take them seriously as directions you could go in.
You've heard about the simulation theory, haven't you?
What I don't want to talk about.
Right.
Well,
Again, it's the LLM problem.
The really interesting thing comes from
I don't know.
And maybe the maybe the cosmos is traversable.
Maybe time's travel replaces time travel.
You see
If I flip all of the dimensions of time.
And space.
So I have one of time, three of space in Einstein's theory.
Okay. The time dimension gets a minus sign, the the three spatians get a plus sign. And the three spatial dimensions are X, Y, and Z.
Yeah.
Zed.
Forgive me.
Which is for s for a simple person.
Depth, width, and height.
Yeah, you can go like forward, backwards, up, down.
Okay, so we have three dimensions there, and then we have one of time because the conversation
Takes place over time.
You're moving around.
Now
Flip.
The time dimension to being plus.
When it was minus before and all the plus dimensions to being minus.
So I've now I have three time dimensions and one space dimension.
It would look exactly the same.
The one space dimension would take the function of time.
And the three time dimensions would have the function of space.
Відо івенті.
The idea of the
that there is not necessarily an arrow of time if time is not one dimensional.
The only
Dimension that has an arrow.
is one.
If something has one dimension you can say
And you know, I tried to do this on Rogan. I said if you have a cassette tape
And you wanna go back to an earlier song, again you're younger.
Listeners will have no idea what we're talking about.
Um
You have to go back through all of the songs before. But if you have a
stylists on a turn table. Some of them will be hipsters with vinyl in their own homes.
You can lift the stylus up and it doesn't need to go back and
Unplay each song in reverse.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
You may be able to go back in time without going back through time.
I don't know what this means, but it's a lot like saying maybe there's a neutral version of the proton. Now what I'm concerned about
Is that essentially none of my physics friends know that there is a doctrine of restricted data. They've never heard of the 1946 and 54 Atomic Energy Acts.
They don't know.
That the department of energy that funds them.
Is really the the department of physics.
They don't know the extent to which we went to hide all of this stuff. They don't know that they're not allowed to talk.
To foreign nationals.
From hostile nations on our own soil.
Because of a doctrine called deemed exports.
There's an entire hidden world of national security.
And the penalty for talking about national security.
With people who don't
Live that.
is that you're a conspiracy theorist.
Do you have this terminology? Do you know the X do you want to Google it?
Well you're
Uh uh this is also just something that's really interesting about the UFO UAP world.
We had this admission recently.
That the government knew.
That at a minimum
Again, I don't think this is
By anywhere close to the full story. At a minimum
There were secret fake
Special access programs. Do you know about special access programs? Su super secret programs are called special access programs.
Then there's a s further category called
unacknowledged special access programs or use apps, which is
You can know that a special access program exists.
Like you know
Maybe warhead recovery is a might be a known one.
But then like there might be an unacknowledged special access program, which is like
theft of of foreign nuclear warheads, which
We it's not even on the books. Only only the super secret.
lawmakers, uh you know, in the gang of eight or whatever it is, can know that that exists.
And then there are further designations of
secretness. There's waved and bigoted
So you can have like a wave bigoted
U unacknowledged special access program.
And you don't know any of this language.
And then there's this chorus of morons.
Who the instant you start to educate people about the existence of the super super secret squirrel club.
Rise up and say
This is all conspiracy theory.
And you're saying
Wait a second. We just admitted
UFO.
UAP land.
That we have a fake special access program.
Which I
predicted on Joe Rogan. I said we may be faking a UFO situation.
The cost and the penalty at a personal level.
For letting people know how the government keeps secrets.
Is personal destruction.
The US faked uh UFO programs. Yes, correct. You don't know about the
I think the Wall Street Journal had an article about it. So these guys knew when they filed their reports on the UFO UAP.
That there actually is
At a minimum.
A fake UFO UAP program.
Why would they want to fake UFOs?
This is so weird.
Did you did you happen to watch
Joe Rogan episode nineteen forty five where I talked about the whole history of the golden age of general relativity and its relationship to UFO, UAP, anti gravity research and the atomic bomb.
I didn't know. Okay.
When we invaded
The beaches of Normandy on D Day.
That was call operation overlord.
We had an entirely fake invasion planned.
of Norway called Operation Fortitude, that was part of Operation Bodyguard, which is part of just total deception.
And why? Because we were building up troops to do something huge.
So we tried to convince
We like planted plans for the invasion of Norway on dead bodies to wash up on beaches so the Germans would find them.
We fake stuff all the time.
That's what we do.
And
You can't talk about what we do.
That is deceptive.
Without being ruined.
By what are called
Covert influence operation.
Like if you'll s y you watch my Twitter account, you'll see all sorts of accounts to send on it.
Fraud, Charlotte and Grifter, blah blah blah blah blah.
Some of that is just people being mean.
But you'll notice that
Like if I really start talking about
physics and I start talking about security and I start talking about
Things that anyone can Google and most of us don't think to do it.
Suddenly it gets really, really intense.
And the whole point is it's supposed to be untraceable.
It's supposed to be a way in which
Like almost certainly.
We know a ton about what happened in the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
Because of
Two bioweapons conventions that we were signatories to and which we ratified. There the the Geneva Convention and a Bioweapons Convention in the 1970s.
But that's not top of mind for ordinary people. They just watched
You know, their great grandma die.
And they're watch their children get
sick and they watched their own brain fog.
They can't know whether that was a bioweapon that we were working on coming out of the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill with Ralph Beric's lab.
You know.
We're we're up to constant secret stuff.
Why would they fake the UFOs though?
What was the what was that distraction?
Yeah.
What if you saw that before we were ready to say it existed?
Yeah, you'd think it was a UFO or something. So wouldn't it be better if we had a UFO?
Story ready to go when we had cool aerospace.
Oh okay.
So you're saying they're working on something which they didn't want you to know.
W if we convince China or Russia or Iran
that we had incredible powers that they don't have.
Then they might be very reluctant to strike us.
Or they might be a
Waste a tremendous amount of money developing
anti gravity technology when there's no such thing.
There are plenty of good reasons to fake such things. Why would we fake an in why would we plan an invasion of Norway?
We weren't going to invade.
But if that's a distraction technique
Do you have any hypothesis as to what
But
That's not my job.
Yeah.
Because as soon as you do that.
I know that my the quality of my guessing
is not going to be at the quality of my detecting when we're up to bullshit.
Okay.
So in other words.
If you ask me
Why is physics stagnant?
I can say I don't know, but there's a decent chance that we know how dangerous physics is and that it's crazy to do it in an open university environment. We've taken precautions. We have a system of national laboratories.
Which are effectively our secret university system.
uh where you have to be an American. So we're we're using our regular universities and the whole world comes through it.
You know, we have Chinese people learning physics side by side our own people.
And I guess you're saying that you don't know if UFOs exist, but you you're you're sure now that they were faking this. I'm absolutely positive.
That we have.
Unacknowledged programs.
That have UFO written on the side of them.
Okay. In other words, the number of people who repeat
Who repeat strikingly similar things.
who appear to be completely sober in every other respect with no known acting ability.
There is no way in the world that these people just spontaneously have decided to destroy their sanity, their career, and their reputation.
I've got you. At a minimum.
We're faking.
I think we are doing a lot more than faking a UFO pro.
I don't know what it is.
And I also would not be talking about this on a large podcast, but for one thing.
I have a particular hatred for one aspect of our intelligence community, and I I don't mean
that I dis disagree or don't like or I'm not uncomfortable.
When
Our secret squirrel club inside the intelligence world and inside in particular covert operations targets our own people who are not read into these programs for personal destruction.
Reputational destruction, mental destruction, economic destruction.
We take our best people and we make fun of them.
We belittle them and we destroy their families, their lives, their ability to earn.
I have a very strong sense that you never destroy your best people.
Do you think you're under attack?
Let me talk about Leo Zillard instead.
Leo Zillard is the father of the Manhattan Project.
Which was the where the nuclear bomb was created. He was not allowed to go in.
side the Manhattan Project because they didn't trust him.
He was a genius.
He was the idea for the Manhattan Project. He and Einstein made sure that it happened.
The government barely trusted Oppenheimer if you saw the film.
What they did with Leo Zillard was they minded him.
They knew how good he was, they knew how important he was, they listened to him, and they didn't destroy him. He undoubtedly knew that the program was going on.
But he wasn't allowed inside the program.
I think that's okay.
I think it's okay that our security state
recognizes that some people are not cut out to keep secrets, some people are not cut out
To die with certain facts that have to be kept hidden.
That's fine.
The desire of our government to destroy people who have no idea what they've tripped over.
Because our government isn't good enough to keep its own secrets.
This is an abomination.
You cannot destroy your A Team.
Who are you referring to when you say people are being destroyed? Are you referring to people like yourself?
You know
If you look at for example
Jeffrey Epstein.
Jeffrey Epstein conducted a conference called Confronting Gravity.
I don't know who Geoffrey Epstein was, but I'll
I would certainly bet money that he was a product of at least one
Uh or more
elements of the intelligence community.
The CIA, the FBI.
That those are ours.
Right, Department of Homeland Security has some of the stuff.
Geospatial intelligence has some of those you know, it's a it's a large network.
Um
I'm talking about people like David Grush.
I'm talking about people potentially like David Fravor.
I'm talking about people like Jake Barber.
I'm talking about scientists.
Like Leah Zillard.
Imagine if Leo Zillard didn't know that the Manhattan Project
was going on, or Jack Raper, a journalist who broke a story.
These people all think that they're doing their jobs.
I desperately want to know why Jeffrey Epstein knew so much.
About my work.
And I wanna know why he was connected to my graduate program.
I was I was in the Harvard mathematics department.
Jeffrey Epstein was absolutely connected to the Harvard Math Department. I wanna know why.
How is he connected to that department? You're pushing me to say things I'm not gonna say.
But I I don't mind. I'm curious. I'm not trying to push you out. I understand. But I'm just not going to do it.
I'm saying that anybody who wants
You say he was connected to the math department. To the Harvard Mathematics Department. How did you know he was connected?
You can Google it.
You could Google it right now.
This is not
I can point.
And all sorts of
stuff that's hidden in plain sight. So I'll take your word for it. And the assertion that I'm picking up on is that
Jeffrey Epstein was planted.
in your world to
I'm not saying he's planned. I don't know who he was. I don't know who ran him. He certainly was not a financier in any standard sense. Really? That was a cover story, yes.
The way that we know Geoffrey Estein
In the UK especially, it's just this guy who was this rich guy who had this island who brought people there and then did these
Despicable things that are Disgraced Financier, Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, that's what we that's the story. Disgraced financier, Jeffrey Epstein. It's called perseveration. He was a disgraced financier.
What kind of a financier disgraced one?
What was his name? Oh, it was Disgraced Financier Jeffrey Epsy.
They perseverate that into your mind so that you auto complete that in your LLM life.
Do you believe that that's what Jeffrey Epstein was?
You may um you
Yeah.
I
He wasn't a financier the day I met him.
What was he?
He was a weird guy who didn't seem to know a lot about currency trading.
Claiming to run
uh multi billion dollar FX hedge fund.
When you say a weird guy, what made him weird?
Same stuff I've said on Chris William. I'm not gonna go back through that. Just
My my point is you're getting a different interview.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
So what I'm trying to get at is
Geoffrey Epstein knew a tremendous amount about my work when nobody knew anything about my work.
And he had a pipeline into me that I didn't understand, which is that he was connected to my graduate program.
And you can check out the conference called Exploring Gravity uh
And host a physical workshop called Confronting Gravity. Confronting Gravity, that's right. In March two thousand six. Yeah, what is Jeffrey Epstein? Jeffrey Epstein is very focused on gravity.
Was it a gravity conference? Yeah. It was about gravity. Yeah. What the fuck was he doing talking about bloody gravity if he's a financier?
It was very important to get Nobel laureates and some of the smartest people on earth to come to the Virgin Islands and talk about gravity. Stephen Hawking was there, David Gross was there, Lawrence Krauss was there, Lisa Randle was there.
Right before his conviction.
And I'm telling you he was very focused on the Harvard math department.
And he knew all about me in ways that he wasn't supposed to.
I I have to I have to be clear. I have to be clear on my understanding of what you're saying. From what I understood and you can say Steve I'm not gonna answer that, whatever, but I just have to'cause I've you've opened up a curiosity hole in my mind. So let me try and fill it. Even if it's the conversation I would Chris I
Um just evade you if I'm fine, you're within the right to evade me. And I hold the right to ask, which is um
So is what I'm hearing is.
You believe and I'm just gonna say it how I think it's
Is what I'm hearing is you believe that Jeffrey U Jeffrey Epstein
was not a financier, he was planted in some way to entertainment. He was a construct.
In some way.
Two
Mess with the
Progression of physics.
Jeffrey Epstein
Apparently I think some
I'll I'll tell you what I said. When I met him
When the meeting was over, I immediately called it
My wife.
And I said, I have just met a construct. She said, What do you mean? I said, This person is not who they claim to be. Somebody has constructed this human being to be something that they are not.
Which is a hedge fund genius.
Somebody who could understand the Euro and the Yen like nobody else. Bullshit.
Not true.
I believe that whoever constructed Jeffrey Epstein was running multiple different programs through the same thing, having put in a large initial investment.
It wasn't about one thing. If you build a mall, you don't just have clothing stores in the mall, you have a food court in the mall.
Right, you have jewellery in the mall. You you you have all sorts of different things in the mall.
Jeffrey Epstein was
A construct of something.
That was running multiple things. One of those things was science, and I don't think that the science and the pedophilia were necessarily in the same bucket.
І was funding all sorts of people.
I don't think everybody at that
Yeah, part of the problem with calling his plane the Lolita Express and calling his island pedophile island.
Is that
You just can't see all the different things that were going through the sky.
I don't think almost any of the scientists are exposed.
Yeah, maybe a few of them, but very few of them.
To anything really horrible.
I think he was trying to keep a periscope on everything that was interesting.
And I think that his girlfriend's father
Robert Maxwell.
was all through scientific pub publishing.
And I think Pergamon Press.
Was
In part a control mechanism.
For making sure that
Revolutionary discoveries were taking place within a framework.
Anybody can look.
You can write
A sub stack article and you can hit post.
And suddenly the world has access to your sub stack art.
That is a nightmare.
What if somebody posts
You know, weaponized anthrax.
What if they do the equivalent of saying, What if there's a neutral proton?
So you think he was controlling science?
I think that Robert Maxwell was in part trying to control science.
I think Geoffrey Estein was in part trying to fund science, trying to control it. I don't really know.
Again, you know, part of the problem with why conspiracy theorists have a bad name.
Is that they're not content to live in ignorance.
And I mean I am.
I I know something is really off with this story.
W
If if you look at me saying things like you don't know whether Biden is gonna make it to November
Ha ha ha, Eric. You know what an idiot. Blah blah blah. Okay.
Then he has a debate. He doesn't make it to November.
Yeah, I I'm not no Stradomist, I'm just dumb enough.
To say
something in public that that makes sense. Let me say something in public that makes sense.

Our national security people suck at their jobs.
The people who are in charge
Of the department of energy, which is masking the department of physics, which is mar masking the department of nuclear weapons.
Right.
The Atomic Energy Act, which are really about atomic weaponry.
recast as Adams for Peace or who knows what.
Jeffrey Epstein, who is not a disgraced financier.
The newspapers that have always had a national interest component and have liaison so that they can work with the CIA and the State Department and they do each other's bidding and scratch each other. This whole network
Is the is what I've called managed reality. We live in managed reality.
We are all in some version of the Truman show.
And you can look at it, you can Google it, I can give you a million search terms. And every time I give a million search terms, you'll watch my reputation get torn apart.
You are you gonna blame me that you didn't know what the whole of society approach is because you didn't know the Daniel Innaway Center for Security in the Pacific came up with an idea for soft fascism?
to fight hybrid wars. You didn't know what hybrid warfare
Look at my talk at Arc.
Jordan Peterson's group the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship. Said almost two million views.
And why is it? Because people are saying I didn't know these terms.
Did you know what the human terrain project is? Do you know do you know about human terrain?
You're a mountain, I'm a valley.
And instead of war
Uh planners.
figuring how do we k use that valley to capture that mountain top because it gives us a uh an eagle's nest uh you know to snipe from or whatever. They say, Okay.
This is the second most powerful podcast in the w in the world, second to Joe Rogan. How do we capture him?
Fuck.
Leave me alone, No, but that's what I'm trying to say. You're human terrain.
Yeah.
When the human terrain wakes up and says, Wait a minute, I'm human terrain?
Well my feeling is
If you don't want me to talk about this on a podcast, then keep your terms s separate.
Nobody knew the term pre bunked malinformation.
Do you know what pre-bunked malinformation is?
Malinformation is information we don't want to get out.
Technically people try to
But
Really it's
Real stuff.
that is deleterious to the narratives that we're trying to push forward and what we're trying to do.
And pre bunked means discredited.
So we knew it debunked.
Just
We have to debunk this information. We get that.
But you didn't know that we had to pre monk malinformation, which is we have to destroy truth telling.
What do you think that means for people like me as podcasters?
Yeah,'cause we're
during these long form conversations, I
He'll snap back.
You say that was a really interesting
Talk.
And then you'll have somebody else on who'll be talking about the importance of melatonin and how we don't understand.
uh the role of sleep.
And then you'll have somebody else.
You know, on
w we're we'll be talking about how do you do a a uh
A clothing brand from scratch.
uh and turn it into a billion dollar unicorn.
You're not gonna stay here on this topic.
This is
Your time with me.
And it'll have some effect and it'll start to fade.
And and and that's what this is.
I'd love to be doing my podcast.
I just don't know how to do it safely.
I want to talk about taking our lives back from the intelligence community. I want to talk about taking our lives back from Silicon Valley, even though those people are my friends.
I wanna talk about taking my life back from the phone.
From despair from not having a future.
I wanna talk about having a glorious existence that is not mediated by morons who sit inside the beltway.
And play with large budgets and hurt people.
particularly really good people who are good at their job.
We're trying to figure out how to advance.
Humankind, their family.
The national interest.
And get
Foul.
I I did not ask for Jeffrey Epstein to fall into my line.
I met him once.
But it was enough to know holy cow.
The Harvard Math Department can't be what I think it is.
Why was he there?
I didn't even know I never heard his name when I was there.
Is that where you met him?
In the in half it.
No no no.
I think one very powerful people at J P J P Morgan.
Told me I needed to meet him.
You didn't want to talk about finance.
You wanted to talk about science.
You can't do your podcast safely.
Do you think my employer was a special informant to the FBI.
He's like one of my closest friends. I'm not gonna say who it is.
Your employer.
Yeah, and one of my closest
Friends.
I I live under a periscope.
Practiscope is really what I meant.
But
Yeah. I I don't
I wanna do physics, man.
I'm really, really good at it.
You know?
And if we have an idea that we shouldn't do physics in public
I would like to have a call from somebody inside.
Hey, Eric, we we need you to come in.
Okay, great.
What's up?
But I didn't use your resources, I didn't use your grants.
Nobody ever informed me, my God, nobody ever informed me about restricted data.
How many people on earth know that there's a doctrine that says physicists don't have free speech?
We can execute you for doing your job.
It's never been tested in the courts, and I hope that the Supreme Court will not allow that.
But you know, if we have a problem that is so serious in theoretical physics
That
It needs the the world's largest exemption from free speech.
We need to amend the constitution. You can't just do this as a sneak attack.
Where you reserve the right casually.
to hook the nineteen seventeen Espionage Act up against the nineteen forty six and fifty four Atomic Energy Act.
I I I've canvassed my
Physics colleagues.
You know, one one of the memes against me, which is very funny, is that no physicists take me seriously when I'm in their offices all the time.
I I just don't know what my life is.
And and with this latest advent of war in the Middle East.
Are are you really gonna pretend that if you can Google all of these things that I have no idea what I'm talking about?
I I'm looking to have a conversation with my own government.
I'm looking to have a conversation about theoretical physics.
And I can do it quietly.
But I have rights?
And I do not believe that the nineteen forty six and nineteen fifty four atomic energy acts are constitutional.
Try me.
There is no restricted data.
You can't do that to an American.
And you can't just keep mounting covert.
Influence campaigns, you know.
I just spent five days in the physics department. I'm not allowed to say that it was five days in the physic department.
As a visitor.
I gave a talk, I'm not allowed to say that I gave a talk.
I don't know what this is.
And I've tired of it, you know, it's just like
If you're managing the Middle East this badly.
If you're managing physics this badly, if you're managing the national economy this badly.
If you screwed up Covid this badly.
By getting inside of the lancet and nature.
Yeah, peer review is this fake
thing that supposedly stretches back to the founding of the Royal Society, and it's very clear from the scholarship around it.
That it comes out of the year.
Night period between nineteen sixty five and nineteen seventy five initiated by the Medicare Act.
predicated on the need for uh
Editors for the journal expansion founded by
Pergamon Press and Robert Maxwell.
by Nintendo Seventy Five
There's a giant battle between the NSF and both fiscal and
Cultural conservatives.
Against something called man a course of study or makeos.
Where peer review
was born in a Utah clinic.
Uh
came out of the medical literature because the federal government in nineteen sixty five of the Medicare Act picked up the need to pay for so many medical procedures. They wanted to say, why are we assigning this many medical procedures? The doctors circled the wagons and said, We will peer review each other.
then in night by nineteen seventy five
The NSF was under the um microscope.
And they used peer review as a self defense of of last resort to say we will be reviewing each other.
Right?
Peer review is a myth.
The scholarship is clear as day.
I can't keep going on the world's largest podcast saying everything that can be Google and figured out and just constantly have as my reward.
that the government refuses to have a conversation with me and sends its its gaggle of uh of idiots to harass me.
You think it's doing that?

Yes, I do.
I do think that some of them are
Actual idiots who just enjoy having
Causing problems. But I think more than anything
We have a real problem.
Science is too powerful.
The real if if you wanted to just cut to the
ultimate core of this.
If four amino acids can shut down planet Earth.
If what is it, a nine page paper?
solving the double spend problem can create a new currency not backed by violence, but backed by mathematics.
If the concept of an inner product in a large vector space
generate something you can't tell isn't a human being.
In twenty seventeen.
Do you have any idea what the power of the human mind is?
At this point.
Linear algebra.
can create something that you would fall in love with.
It can create the most beautiful music you can imagine.
Or can animate a photo of a dead relative so that you can actually have the experience of having some video of you with a great grandparent you can't even remember.
Science is the most amazing, powerful, crazy stuff possible.
And we spend a fortune.
Trying to convince people that scientists are worthless.
That scientists are incapable.
And in large measure they've convinced the scientists themselves. My my colleagues, the supposed physicists.
will spend their entire lives pretending to do physics and retire without ever having actually done anything.
I was in this physics department I was just in. It's been a long time since I've since I've spent that long as a visitor.
The top people in this physics department.
professed that they had no interest in the physical world.
But they only cared about the mathematics that they were doing.
I just thought
You're in a theoretical physics
Group.
And you
Profess openly that you have no interest whatsoever in the physical world.
Well done.
I don't know who you were.
I don't know how it
You did it.
It took you four decades to get the physicist to stop caring about the physic physical world.
Somehow what we did.
Is we stopped the world's most powerful and the world's most important group from making progress.
And
Why Elon Musk is not out here.
Saving this.
But just throwing a few billion at it.
You know, Elon, if you're out there.
It's ad astra, yes or no?
Mars is a stopgap message. Do you want to go to the stars?
Is there something we don't know?
To the Department of Energy. Do you want to have conversations?
Is there anyone at all out here? That's my question. That's why I do the podcasts. And it's by the way, I'm repeating myself. I've said this before, send lawyers, guns, and money. There's no one out here.
But
I will say this.
If we could get out of here.
You know, in terms of transcendence, in terms of things that are really exciting.
There's nothing that I had greater pleasure at.
As a father than taking my children for meteor showers.
We take the dog.
Go to a secret location outside of Los Angeles that's quite dark.
We just lie under the sky.
And watch for hours.
You know?
And look up at the heavens and think, My God, that's a destination. That's some place I could go.
I don't think that there's a more inspiring thing than to figure out the infinity of space.
All of these galaxies and the deep field photographs of these space telescopes.
Filled with worlds.
We're stuck here.
It's like it's enough already. Time to go. Let's have some fun. That's that's really what I'm excited about.
Been great great to be here.
Thank you for being here.
Super fascinating and it's been my
Brain in several different directions at the same time.
I wanna I wanna bring it um back to the person who's who's got to the end of this conversation and they're sat at home.
In their box of shorts maybe.
listening on their iPhone as they fall asleep wherever they are in the world or on a train or plane or whatever.
And allow you to offer them some kind of closing message.
That might make their life better.
In some way.
It's a broad brief, but I think it's the most important brief, which is
You know, can having heard everything we've talked about today.
What advice would you give the listener?
An actionable piece of advice so that they could live
A subjectively better life.
The songs of Tom Learer are pretty terrific, as are the
operettas of Gilbert and Sullivan. You might want to explore the Azores as well as the Indonesian
Archipelago. Indonesia's one of the
easiest languages to learn because it's been
denuded of most of the complexity that screw up people who have a hard time learning other languages.
Buy a poster of tropical fruit and make sure that you visit every single one on that poster before it's time for lights out.
Consider Box B minor mass and the cello suites, particularly by Pablo Casals, and take a serious listen to Eva Cassidy.
uh singing stormy monday
And an album called Live from Blues Alley to see if uh
You really know how to feel things. I think Professor Longhair's big chief.
is one of the most brilliant pieces of piano music. It's absolutely inspiring. And if you really like that, James Carol Booker the Third has an album called The Resurrection of the Bayu Maharaja.
Seriously think.
About
Visiting the island of Saint Helena in the South Atlantic.
Take a look at Kurt Jimongle's channel. He's doing amazing stuff being done by no one else on earth.
I think that Chris Buck is really amazing, and if you think that Crossroads is good, have a listen to his version of Miss You by the Rolling Stones.
An incredible groove, and I didn't really appreciate it the first time I heard it.
I think that the people making spark amps at positive grid
And the my friends at Neural D S P
uh with the quad cortex will
blow your mind with how much great audio
equipment you can make you get as
good electric guitar for a few hundred bucks thanks to advances in China.

and buy yourself a slide or just slide a glass along it and you'll be able to play most songs that you care about within a minute or two, maybe three, because you only need three chords.
Get married.
It may not work out. It may be miserable. Have some kids.
There's nothing else great to do on this planet, at least give it a try.
And if your parents won't pressure you to do it, I'm happy to do it.
Try to keep this thing going.
Try to keep this thing going. Try to dream big about
Legacy. Don't feel embarrassed about
Wanting to conquer the world or leave a permanent stain.
get out of this moment where everybody's worried about narcissism and drama.
Listen for media showers. They're announced regularly. Nobody actually does anything about them, and it's worth inconveniencing yourself with people you love and take the dog.
Really seriously think about you want whether you want to pile on
When you see
What is almost certainly
A federal
Or other campaign.
targeting people who are standing up for you, whether they're trying to figure out where Covid came from.
Trying to figure out.
Who was behind Jeffrey Epstein?
recognize that almost everything you've been taught to do in terms of hating Israel is part of somebody's campaign.
out of cutter the s situation in Gaz is incredibly dire.
Don't stop caring about the people who are living under that.
recognize that the Persians are not the mullahs.
Get involved.
Wish your
Wish your country's leadership well, even if you didn't vote for them and you think that they're horrible people. They've got very hard work to do.
Be good to each other.
Try.
It's a grand adventure.
And um
Make sure you have some fun before it slides out.

We have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for.
And the question that was left for you.
Yeah.

Love this question.
What is the problem that you are doing the most mental gymnastics to avoid?
Cass.
No, I know the answer. It's not appropriate for your audience.
One of the things about
being in the hot seat on podcasts.
Is is that it is not right to force anyone to respond to a question. I know how to falsify an answer to that and I'm not gonna do that. And I'm not gonna share the answer to that question because it's not appropriate.
But it's a great question.
Feel free to leave it for someone else because it doesn't seem fair.
Whoever you were, thank you for the question.

Obviously my reaction was
Just tremendous curiosity, which would be a natural reaction to what you just said.
Thank you for a great interview. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. It's so unbelievably fascinating. And uh you've given me so much unfortunately uh you've given me a lot of answers, but you've given me even more questions.

Product of a good in LA.
Yeah, we'll do it again. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks.
We launched these conversation cards and they sold out. And we launched them again and they sold out again. We launched them again and they sold out again. Because people love playing these with colleagues at work, with friends at home, and also with family. And we've also got a big audience that use them as journal prompts. Every single time a guest comes on the door of a CEO
They leave a question for the next guest in the diary. And I've sat here with some of the most incredible people in the world. And they've left all of these questions in the diary. And I've ranked them from one to three in terms of the depth. One being a starter question. And level three, if you look on the back here, this is a level three.
becomes a much deeper question that builds even more connection. If you turn the cards over
And you scan that QR code.
You can see who answered the card.
And watch the video of them answering it in real time.
So if you would like to get your hands on some of these conversation cards, go to thediary.com or look at the link in the description below.