Kevin O'Leary: This Daily Habit Is Keeping You Poor. Here's What You Should Do Every Time You Get Paid!

0:00 That is the stupidest thing you can ever do. What is the most important thing for someone who's just trying to grow their money? So I learned this from my mother and I actually built a whole company around it. Yeah, there she is. So I haven't seen that picture. Yeah. I mean what she did. Performance was extraordinary.

0:27 And with that she put my brother and I through college. She took care of her family and they When I saw the results, I said that's it. That's how I'm gonna invest for the rest of my life. So talk me through this as much detail as possible. Let's start with this. Kevin O'Leary, aka Mr. Wonderful, is the self-made millionaire and investor. Who's built and sold companies for billions.

0:52 I don't care. Because there's people that don't think ahead and find themselves mired in debt, but then pissing away money. Spend me$28 for lunch. I mean that's just stupid. What about the house? The mistake that people make is they buy too much house. Never let the mortgage and the cost of maintaining the house be more than one third of your income. Now how much does the person that you fall in love with have an impact? I'm kidding. It's everything. And I did some research, and most marriages can survive infidelity. They can't survive financial stress. But if everybody that's listening does this one thing, you will have over a million house. Dollars.

1:27 Kevin, can anybody be an entrepreneur? No. Only a third of people can become successful entrepreneurs because there's a couple of things that you must achieve to be successful. First, Quick one before we get back to this episode. Just give me thirty seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us, and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here.

2:00 Please join the twenty four percent of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm gonna make to you. I'm gonna do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're gonna deliver the guest that you want me to speak to, and we're gonna continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. Oh

2:25 Kevin, I'm gonna ask you to do something which is quite difficult, because I'd find it quite hard if someone asked me to do this. But before we get into the detail Can you give me a thirty thousand Food. on your entrepreneurship and investing career. Just the

2:39 Just the three bullet points that are most pertinent before we dig into those. Specifics. Every entrepreneur I've ever talked to, um, that finds himself where I am today has has a defining moment where they are Pushed. It's it's something they can remember.

2:54 And they remember it in perpetuity. And I'll remember my moment. Getting fired. In an ice cream store. That's simple. First day on the job. asked to serve scoop ice cream.

3:05 And um I did that all day, but when people sample ice cream, they get a taster and they take their gum out and they throw it on the floor. Somebody's gotta scrape the gum off the floor at the end of the day. I only took that job because I was very interested in a girl who was working in the shoe store and I figured

3:22 I could You know, hang out with her afterwards. And uh I saw her waiting for me and the Woman who owned the store said, You've got a script to come off the floor. And I didn't want to

3:33 Her to see me on my knees with a scraper bad for my brand. I was in high school. She said, No, no, you have to do it. I said, You know, you hired me as a scooper, not a scraper. She said um How about you're fired?

3:48 And I didn't know what that meant. And it was the defining moment for me because I realized there's They're on the store? And there's people that scrape the shit off the floor. And you have to decide who you are. And I'm not saying being an employee is a bad thing, not at all.

4:04 But for me, um, it it hit me. It just hit me. Kevin there's a Present for you. We give a present to all of our guests. Really? Underneath that black. Can I open it? You can open it. I just take this out.

4:17 Oh, look at that. You heard the story. That is exactly how it looked. Except it was black gum. And that was exactly the tile. It was just like that, Mexican tile. That's really freaking me out. So you were asked to scrape gum off a message entire. Just like that.

4:34 And in order to do that, you've got to get down on your knees and do it. And um I just couldn't do it. And I And I and then you know the rest of the story. I eventually could afford to bulldoze the whole mall if I went to. And we went back to meet her and thank her for Her pushing me off the treadmill into that

4:51 direction and the she was gone and there was a bodega there instead. You said there that you realise that there's kind of two people in life. There's the entrepreneur is the person that owns the ice cream parlor and there's the person that scrapes it off the floor. That provoked a question in me, which is do you think anybody can own the ice cream parlor? I do think anybody can be an entrepreneur.

5:11 No. I've Tried to teach it. Um And I mentor it all the time to the CEOs that I work with.

5:20 Uh there are some attributes of people that can do this. Certain element of risk tolerance, certain element of focus. And then the other element which I've really started to believe in of late is karma. Luck. You need to be lucky.

5:36 You need it's like Napoleon was once asked. And he said, My favorite generals are lucky generals, my lucky generals. And I'm starting to think that in life um Particular entrepreneurship.

5:50 You look at the difference the path of success and failure, and I nobody's exposed to it more than I am in terms of how many investments I made I've made over the decades. Yeah. I think if you want a percentage. You know, I teach these cohorts in it at Harvard.

6:08 I'm an executive fellow there, I'm very proud of that work. You get class of one hundred and twenty people in a room. Two thirds of them want to become consultants. That's why they're there.

6:18 And lead A life of mediocrity and never make a decision of consequence in their lives. And after Twenty. They are tainted with that disease forever. There'll always be good consultants, but

6:29 They will never achieve greatness in any way. In life, only a third of people can become successful entrepreneurs, that's it. And the rest can be very successful employees. And there's nothing wrong with that. You can have a fantastic life. You won't be Shackle to the You know that The ups and downs of entrepreneurship, the challenge of it, how hard it is.

6:49 But you'll never be free. And that's the debate. That's it right there. Do you want personal freedom? It's the only path. That's it. It's the only path. It is the only path. I mean you can't I I've always said it's not about the pursuit of money. It's not about the pursuit of greed. You will fail if you do that. It's it's the undying

7:06 Love. Freedom. So that one third of people that you say will be successful, they'll Pursue their their dreams, they'll build a business, whatever it might be. Yeah. Do you think it's possible for us in this conversation to increase the probability of their success? You said you don't think you can you can make someone an entrepreneur. But ca is there things you can do to increase their probability of success? Yes.

7:28 There are a couple of things that you must achieve to be successful and let me explain what they would be. And this is not some academic study, this is Real data. From real situations of real CEOs I've worked with and learned from, because I used to work for guys like Steve Jobs and others. In my career.

7:48 Let me um Let me give you one that I think is very important. We'll start with this one. I used to work for Steve Jobs in the early nineties, making all of his educational software. I mean it was just oh there they are. My goodness, you guys do good research. Those are the kind of things that we did for him. You know?

8:07 Yeah. Yeah, all of that. It's hard to find. Those are CD Roms. But you know. In developing that software.

8:16 We used to go quarterly, um Heidi Rosen. Was there in the room, she's still a a very famous venture capitalist. And I would say Steve, you know We gotta do some market research on Oregon Trail. I mean, it's a huge title. It's in 110,000 school buildings. We gotta do an update. It's gonna cost you twelve, fifteen million bucks.

8:37 We wanna find out what the students want, we wanna find out what the teachers want, we wanna find out what the parents want. Steve would say By the way. Not a nice guy. Not a nice guy. He would say to a room full of people.

8:51 Kevin, I don't give a shit what the students want or the parents think. Or anybody thinks it's what I want. They don't know what they want till I tell them what they want. And I said, Steve, you sound like such an asshole. You have no idea what that sounds like. He says no no. That's how it is, Kevin.

9:10 Now are you making money with me? Are we are you am I your fastest growing OEM? Have we not been wildly successful and continue to be? I said, Yes, Steve, that's true. He said. Then fucking shut up. And do what I say.

9:23 That's how you talk to you. One hundred percent. And Here's what I learned. Look how wildly successful he was.

9:35 But here's why. There's a concept that he understood. that very few people focused on back then in the early nineties of signal to noise ratio. What was so brilliant about jobs was that I tell every CO now. And I don't care if you're an S P five hundred CEO or you're just starting a business.

9:56 His vision. was the top three to five things you have to get done in the next eighteen hours. Not your vision for the business next week or next month or next year but Just the next eighteen hours you're awake.

10:10 You're going to get those three things or those five things done that you have deemed critical for your mission. They must get done today. Anything that stops you from doing that is the noise. So the s signal to noise ratio to be successful For Steve Jobs.

10:27 It was eighty twenty. Eighty signal. twenty noise. And I knew that to be true with him because he would email me at two thirty in the morning, expect me to get back to him, because back then we didn't have texts, it was all email. He was right.

10:41 He was right. And the only other person that I've seen that has a higher ratio than that Elon Musk. He has no noise. He does not deal with noise.

10:51 He is one hundred percent signaled twenty four seconds. I mean the guy is just a little bit more. Sixty seconds of every minute. Sixty minutes of every hour. The eighteen hours he's awake, it's all signal.

11:04 And look what he's achieved. Now it's very awkward for him socially. Because Noise is dealing with your family sometimes, or noise is saying hi to a friend, or noise is Is is listening to some doom scrolling on, you know, some social media app. that just takes your mind, or maybe playing your guitar.

11:22 But Very few people on earth, if you could go back in history, you're gonna find out that the geniuses of their time We're close to a hundred percent signal. And so I can Really sort of summarise this for my

11:33 Audience, signal is the most urgent thing you should be focused on right now and noise is basically everything. No, the goals you set for that the the way the w that you were awake. If you're gonna be awake eighteen hours. And you've determined that there's three things you have to get done. You're gonna get those done. No matter what it takes, you're gonna get those done. And you're not gonna let anything distract you from the three to five things. If you're a CEO.

11:56 And you achieve that. And you can get those done. With eighty percent of your time based on that. You're extraordinarily successful. You are absolutely and you're Steve Jobs, or you're an Elon Musk, or you're somebody if you

12:09 If you even talk to Bezos. I don't know him personally, but I've heard in many interviews. Like I knew uh you know, I've I've I've met Elon just a few times. I spent a lot of time with jobs. What? They say the same thing.

12:22 Basels will not make a decision after one o'clock in the afternoon because he felt that the noise was too high. The signal for him was in the morning hours. It this is a crucial aspect of success. that I now understand to be

12:37 The ability of of uh It defines uh an entrepreneur. A man or woman that understands the signal noise ratio, that focuses on that. They'll be successful. The ones that can't that get down to a fifty fifty signal noise they'll fail.

12:52 It's that simple. Yeah. It's a very simple concept. You know You made one of your things today, this interview. You're gonna get it done.

13:01 You're gonna all these people around and everything else, this is one of the th three to five things you're gonna get done. I have five things today. I'm gonna get'em done. I'll do the same thing tomorrow. And the day after that. And you have to decide how much signal You need

13:15 to get those three to five things done. And for jobs it was eighty percent. What's the opposite of that? Sometimes looking at the opposite helps us to understand something. So the opposite of having Well I hire managers and CEOs that have a balance in life between the discipline, the binary aspect of business, which is

13:34 I make money, I lose money. And the chaos of the arts or some other pursuit, dance. Painting photography. collecting crystals, whatever it is that that they that they have that balance you you need you need the yin and yang in your mind to make correct decisions. It doesn't mean it takes you off

13:52 The signal. The signal is you gotta get stuff done. But how do you live your life? And so I spent a fair amount of my time practicing my guitar or working with my photography or My my watch, you know, uh uh uh tonight, uh very late tonight, I will meet a master watchmaker and we will deal with the design of a new piece unique is gonna make for me. And I'm gonna love that moment. That's gonna be something completely different to what I did all day long. And we'll start our journey together over the next two years to make this piece unique.

14:19 And That's something that just takes me away from all the shit I'm gonna be dealing with today. And I also tell successful entrepreneurs In the same day. You will get a f and I've this happened to me today. It happens every day. You're gonna get a call from some aspect of of your

14:36 But you you call it your empire, whatever you want, where your this company's going bankrupt. It's just gonna go bankrupt and you're gonna lose I don't know. Ten million bucks on that deal. And that's a piece of information you're dealing with.

14:50 Half an hour later. This actually happened to me today. One of my companies going public. It's a four hundred and fifty X for me. the stock will get unlocked sometime in in the fall. But

15:06 How can how do you How do you fit that together? Utter catastrophe, destruction, woe, loss. Utter euphoria. Half an hour later.

15:18 That's That's what my life is like. That's entrepreneurship, obviously on diff a different scale for most founders. Well the founders deal with the same thing. They get disastrous news, they lose a an account, like a Costco or something if it's consumer goods or service, and they get something else. The the the ebb and flow.

15:36 is is the management of expectations and your ability emotionally To navigate those ups and downs is part of what entrepreneurship is, but it goes back to the signal. It can't take you off the signal. This is what Steve taught me. Yes it's great news. Yes it's bad news, but Focus on the signal, O Leary. Focus on the signal.

15:59 That's it. Where does this analogy come from of signal and noise? It was his genius of uh of of making it so simple. What are the three things you gotta get done today? What are they? What are they? How do you know what they are?

16:11 They will make themselves apparent. They will definitely make themselves apparent. And you will realize

16:19 I have to deal with that. You may have them set up from the day before. I actually still use sticky notes on my mirror. Gotta get these three things done. And or five center, whatever it is, but then something else will hit. That's the skill of understanding. Is that noise hitting me? Where's that signal?

16:36 There is the есен. of the great entrepreneur, the great manager, the great leader. Is that signal or is that noise? What is it? That's what you're looking for. You're hiring somebody that can can actually distinguish signal and noise. Because it could be noise.

16:52 It could be irrelevant. You have to determine only you. Makes that decision. That's the key right there. This is what I teach. Entrepreneurs and engineers and

17:06 This is the most important thing. It's that judgment of prioritization, but then the sort of force of execution to get it done. And can you Keep the noise away from

17:19 From the things you gotta get done. That's one. The other which Is something that I've learned over the last five years.

17:27 And this uh you might find this interesting, but most of my particularly the nascent startups and you're you're involved in the same format I am. You're Dragon's Den in England, I'm Shark Tank in the US. I you know, you put up five hundred thousand or a million bucks into somebody's business eight eight out of ten is gonna fail, maybe six out of ten, depend you just don't know. And

17:48 I love it when people tell me, Oh I I know. When I make an investment, it's gonna work. Ha ha They are so full of shit.

17:58 They they ha I'm talking about startups. They have no idea what's going to work. And you won't know for five to seven years, which is why you need diversif diversification in the portfolio. But I would go as far as to say now. You know, when I meet um Venture capital firms and young analysts that work there, and they think they're so damn smart. They've never operated a business.

18:21 They know nothing. They have no idea what they're doing. They're gonna hope that one or two of their portfolio uh is gonna work out in seven years and pay for all the other mistakes. But the serendipitous nature of success in entrepreneurship is brutal. It is. So that does that mean though that it's

18:37 I guess I was gonna say does that not mean that it's highly luck? Investing's highly like entrepreneurship must be. I said karma. You know, I call it karma, but you need executional skills. But here's another skill that I think we should talk about. Um

18:53 When you look at at least m my experience over decades of making these uh nascent, these early stage investments, these A round investments. Remarkably, and I've done them in all eleven sectors of the of the economy. The majority of the successes five to seven years later are companies run by women. Why is that?

19:13 W why is that? And so They don't know each other, they're in different sectors. They never meet each other. Why is that? And I have come to the conclusion, um

19:26 Two things. They set goals that they can achieve so that in the early stage of their businesses They put growth rate targets like fifteen, sixteen percent versus men at thirty percent very often. Men hit their target sixty five percent of the time, at least my portfolio, and and women ninety f plus per time percent of the time. And that keeps the the the the the team very sticky. They want to be part of a so they don't have a lot of attrition when they're small. They don't lose the head of finance and marketing. That that works. But they have another attribute.

19:53 And this was pointed out to me by one of my female CEOs a few years ago to me. She said, You know, Kevin, you talk too much. You talk too much. Um You talk two thirds, you listen one third. Why don't you try reversing the ratio? She said that to you. Yeah.

20:07 Yeah. Ha ha ha. Very thankful actually, because I tried it. And um

20:17 If you don't talk. And you listen, you become far more effective as a manager or an investor in my case. You weren't gonna get by talking. And so if you go into a room

20:29 I just did this a few minutes ago before I came here. I'm involved in a litigation. We decided to attempt settlement talks. Which is why I was a few minutes late. And Um

20:41 You know, we knew we were going in there to settle. And it it's long protruded, you know. It's a long, long, long. Uh. Litigation.

20:52 And I remembered her as we sat at the table like this. There were other people in the room, but The two uh You know. Yeah.

21:02 I just looked at him. I understand. For a long time. A long time. And

21:11 It gets uncomfortable and no one else is talking. You know, just looking. And um Maybe after ninety seconds he blurted out something he shouldn't have said.

21:27 And I knew exactly what the price was. Right there. That was the end of it. You learn that as a podcaster. You learn that there's actually something going on in the silence.

21:39 There is something going on in silence and it's it's It's the number that he was going to settle at. So we saved ourselves two hours, you know. It's a it's an attribute that many people can't do because they can't stand the social uncomfort of it. I have no problem with it. I could sit here and look at you for ten minutes. It wouldn't matter to me. And I've actually found it to be a very useful piece of information. It's not just in negotiating, but to listen

22:03 to employees, listen to investors, listen to financiers, listen to alternative ideas to yours. And become more powerful from it. You're in the very business of people selling to you and pitching to you. We both sit on A a similar show And where people come in and pitch to us.

22:19 You're seeing at times ten to twelve pictures a day. So you've developed this muscle over the last Couple of decades now. Almost this instinctive, spidey sense of when an entrepreneur will be successful, at least in the context of securing investment. What have you come to learn about the f the attributes of the ones that are successful? Is there is there anything one can take from that? In the moment.

22:42 when that entrepreneur comes out onto the carpet in the context of Shark Tank or Dragonston even. They need the setup shot of the product with the entrepreneur and they have a in our case a steady cam or a a jib that comes down and shoots it. So The the stage director. Eric. uh is his name. I've worked with him for years.

23:01 says to the Entrepreneurs I've never met. Usually it's a team or it's a family or it's whatever, three or four or two people, whatever. Hold on. Hold on.

23:11 Hold on Don't speak. Hold And Don't mind the camera coming into your face. Hold. Hold

23:20 Maybe for Two minutes. And I'm right there in front of them. I'm twelve feet from them and I just look at them. Not smiling, not blinking. Not frowning, just looking at him.

23:33 And before they say a single word, I know if they're winners or losers. Just like that. And why is that? Why is that? When

23:44 And I'm right probably ninety nine percent of the time. Maybe I get it wrong. One out of a hundred. I doubt it though. You walk in a room Even though you've practiced

23:56 You know you in the context of of Shark Tank. twenty plus cameras. a billion plus dollars in in the five chairs there. You've been practicing for months your pitch. But it wasn't the real deal.

24:10 Here you are. Cameras are rolling. You know you've only got so many minutes. This is your moment.

24:20 And you're on national television, a hundred plus million people will see you in syndication. It's all in your mind. It's all in your mind. It's going through your head. Can you project? Who you are with your eyes and the way you're standing. Can you project your confidence? Or you're looking at the ground.

24:39 Or you're looking away from me'cause you can't stand me looking at you directly without saying anything to you. Or do you push back? Or do you say I'm gonna st I'm gonna stake my aura, I'm gonna stake my ground here. I'm gonna show you I'm ready. See what I'm getting at? Yeah. And I can feel it. I can see that they're ready to do battle.

25:01 They're ready to answer, they're ready to present, they're ready, ready, ready, ready, or they're not. And I've taken that out of the Shark Take. I see that every day in life. I see it. So you have to learn. How to project yourself. in front of your peers or who's who you want.

25:18 to you want to lead. Or teach. Or if you're a general or a preacher. That is maybe An innate

25:28 something you're born with, or maybe you can learn that. I don't know. I don't care. But if you don't have it, you're gonna fail. And you're just That's before a word is spoken. Before the first word is spoken.

25:42 And so Then what has to happen. Then Eric says. Go. You're on.

25:49 And everybody's just sitting there looking at you. Can you articulate your idea in ninety seconds or less? Can you, whatever props you have or whatever you're gonna say, can I get the big idea right away? The ones that had that aura generally get there. Thirty seconds later. I get it.

26:10 I get what they're here for. I understand their product. Okay, that's good. Unfortunately. Great ideas are diamond dozen. I mean, there's millions of them. The next phase begins.

26:22 This is after nine seconds. Can you? Explain why you're the right person to execute on this idea and create a business from it because you know something about this space. You work for a competitor, you've tried three times before and failed. You've figured out what you did wrong. What is it about you or your team that can take this Idea and Make it happen.

26:46 Now when you get those two things together, you can feel the aura of the room. The isotope is sizzling because you've derished a great idea. You got an operator in and the But then the third thing, this is the killer. It's the killer. I've seen it so many times. In real life, and Shark Tank's real life it is, but

27:05 You gotta know your numbers. How big is a market growing, what's the gross margin? I mean I've said this a million times to people. I teach this every day. How many competitors are there? When are you gonna break even? What month? If you get the first two right and you don't know your numbers, you deserve to burn in hell and I'll put you there myself. I mean you wasted an opportunity for an entrepreneur that did know their numbers that could have been in that spot that I could have invested in. You know your numbers.

27:28 I take you up behind the barn and shoot you. You should have brought somebody. that understands the language of business because those three together are the definition of leadership. Right there. I've never heard someone talk about

27:40 Aura. In entrepreneurship. Quite like that. And I was just trying to do it. For the people listening that.

27:47 are either trying to figure out if they have an aura or to grow that aura. What does it what does it look and feel like? Is it physically? Is it shoulders back? Is it You said it's eye contact. Or is it indescribable? And do you think you could c

28:00 Take someone who doesn't have that aura. In business and Teach them it. Does business give you that aura? I think you can teach it. I certainly try and teach it to my children. Um

28:12 I try and teach it to my students. And the best way to do it is to look at yourself in the mirror sometime. You know, just What do you look like to yourself? You know, if you're gonna go make a presentation to take down a million dollar line of credit or something,

28:32 You want to dress the part, obviously. But you're gonna walk in a room with, you know, a loan officer and maybe an assistant, maybe one other, depending on the size of the deal. They'll never met you, probably, and you're gonna have to project What does that take? It takes an aura of confidence and it's in the eyes, it's in the way you're you're standing, it's in how the way you're dressed.

28:56 It's it's not a joke to be dressed for success. You know, it's it's um It's But it's it's something about presenting yourself.

29:07 And Keeping Your eyes focused on who's talking to you. so that they know that you're absorbing the information, that you respect the information. that you're about to get into a narrative with them of respect.

29:20 Even though there may be disagreements. All of this is happening in the first Sixty seconds. And it's setting up for the rest of Your life with that person.

29:30 It could be who you're gonna marry, it could be who you're gonna work with, it could be your partner in business, it could be your banker, it could be anybody. It could be a soldier that's gonna give up their life for you. It's sort of Who are you? That's it.

29:43 Just closing off on the point you made about w women being your most successful investments and the companies that have given you the greatest returns tend to be Led by women. Does that mean that You Focus on hiring women into executive roles.

29:56 Yeah, and practically all women. Um, particularly Asian women. I am a uh You know, this whole thing about DI and all this stuff. I've always had diversity because I only hire on merit. I don't care

30:09 If you what sex you are, or what you call yourself, or what where you came from, or the color of your skin, or what planet you were born on. I couldn't give it Shit. Can you execute? And the way I hire people.

30:23 That's why I have such a diverse staff in my operating company. I don't hire you. I say look, you sound good. Yeah. You look great on paper.

30:33 But that doesn't mean anything if you can't work within the team. So I know you want a job and you want benefits and all that stuff. I'm not gonna do that. If you wanna be part of my universe, you're gonna work for four to six months as a contractor at a much higher salary. Because you're not gonna get any stock options, you're not gonna get any uh benefits.

30:52 But I just want to see what it's like. for you to work with all of the people that we deal with every day, all the lawyers, all the bankers, all of the You know. Do.

31:08 Nine to five anymore. I do project based work. I don't care where you live. We have people working in Dubai, Abu Dhabi. Uh England. Everywhere. Everywhere. And and you know, we meet, uh we try and find an hour every week where we can see each other, but we're just constantly communicating using modern day tools today.

31:26 But You know Can you actually Be given a mandate. And execute on it.

31:35 That's it. I don't care when you do it. If you have to get the financial so let's say you're running in finance, you gotta get'em up the fifteenth for taxes. I don't care when you do it. But if you miss the fifteenth, I care. So I I need to find out if those people can fit into that kind of an environment. Some of them make it, some of them don't.

31:52 Some sometimes we know right away after ninety days, okay, let's hire him, bring him in the team, and you know, let's give them the whole package. And sometimes after a month we say, No, it's not a work. Here's like You know. That's it. I think I think more companies should do that, actually. It's more like the Swiss apprentice system. They bring you into a lot like you know, uh my stepfather's Swiss, I've been going to Switzerland for fifty years.

32:13 So if you're a giant company like a Pfizer or a Nestle, you pull'em out of high school at fourteen. You give them a job in the afternoon. they become an apprentice. They want to learn. They want to work. They want to understand what it's like. And then you find the the winners at while they're still in high school. Then you give them summer jobs and then you bring them into the company. That's where I got the idea from. The Swiss are genius that way. 'Cause you're sort of mitigating the risk, I guess. You're taking less of a

32:39 No, but you're also finding out if their their DNA is going to fit with your I mean I want my team to make a ton of money. I I just I want them to be successful. I want every person to be proud to work with the other and and just w we're we're almost invincible. We're so damn good at what we do. You have the same thing here. You you don't have people that don't work for you well.

33:00 You get rid of them. You whack them. I'm more just formal about it. Boom, you're gone. W with the investments that you've made, how many investments how many offers have you done on Shark Tank now, probably like eight. We know we don't even count it anymore. We look at the portfolio rolling over five to seven year period. A lot.

33:17 I like a lot. And I and the thing is the th what I've learned is You get a you get an exit like uh Base pause. From five years ago or something. Anaskaya remarkable woman. It was the the cat DNA thing. I mean, nobody saw that coming. I thought the thing was a joke.

33:35 Um I was so wrong. I mean that's the whole point. And and she She had the highest ir in I think in the whole format's history. Nobody's made sh her she was around for thirty six months. And taken out at such an extreme number and all cash that There was an N D A sign between Sony and the the the pharmaceutical company. I can't even tell what it was. It was extraordinary. It was

33:55 Extraordinary. Was it nine figures? Tough NDA. They didn't buy it for The cat DNA testing. They bought it for the data.

34:10 Mm-hmm. With AI didn't really wasn't emerging. Then it would exist, but it wasn't. With the data they have now?

34:19 Products for animals that are extraordinary in terms of feeds and medicines. Yeah. That much data on the hundred and ten million cats. In America because she got it all during the pandemic. Thousands and Thousands and thousands of of the

34:35 You know. It was it was never about It was it was a data company. It's like my son telling me when he got his internship at Tesla. Hey Dad, it's not a car company. It's a data company.

34:47 Mm-hmm. Buy the stock'cause I'm never buying the stock. It's a joke. It's so expensive. You said You're an idiot. It's not a car company. So I bought the stock. And he was right.

34:55 It became my most successful investment. I ev I had to keep selling it down to five percent. My cost base is zero on Tesla now. Fuck it. Yeah, but before it split and he worked there for five years. One of the personas that I have that watches this show a lot are Young people. Not always young, but

35:11 Pero on the sofa thinking about being an entrepreneur. And they talk about it a lot. You know, they they come up to me in the street. Two thirds will never do it.

35:21 The y you might as well do it when you have less burdensome risk like a mortgage and a family. You might as well do it in your twenties. You're gonna fail the first time, maybe the second, maybe the third. You only need one success. And I had plenty of failures and I've I still have failures. I mean it's just you know that when I t I talked about this morning, uh it's you know, when I Yeah.

35:41 You know, I I said I said to the largest shareholders as as I was in the car and your assistant was you know, uh looking at me in the limo, I was telling the other two shareholders, listen, guys. It's it's a binary decision. Soon as I get out of this interview, we're gonna make a decision. This company's going bankrupt. Oh on the bankrupt company. Yeah, yeah. And so if we want to save it, everybody's gonna have to pony up X million.

36:03 And um We're gonna own the whole thing. We're just gonna own it all. We're just gonna do a cram down round at a fraction of a cent, you know, on the whole thing. You wanna do that or you wanna let it go bankrupt? You guys choose. I'm one third of it.

36:16 So it's gonna have to be You know. Two against one. And I'll do whatever they want because that's how I am. But it's You know.

36:24 You wanna get yourself in a position in life, and I think most CEOs understand this. You are going to have bad outcomes. There are going to be bad outcomes. But never put yourself in a situation where one bad outcome Defines who you are.

36:39 I mean For those shareholders they're gonna be unhappy. But then I got the call. On the IBO. Those shadows will be very happy. They're gonna make four hundred four hundred X. So it that was one of my deals. And so it's sort of like

36:56 Learn to live with the idea that You are going to fail. You're going to lose money. By taking risk. Will it change relationships permanently? Maybe, but if they're if you're respect it and you're honest and you're transparent.

37:13 Probably not. I think there's a lot of people don't like me for my bluntness. I don't care. I think a lot of people respect me for my blindness. They may not like me.

37:24 And you know, it's sort of um The only people that really matter to me are probably my twentieth closest friends and my family. Do you think if you hadn't worked with or known Steve Jobs you would be a different person? A hundred percent.

37:38 Steve changed my life. There's no question. I don't like him. But I feel so bad that he he didn't have to die that way.

37:49 He just wouldn't go with the modern medicine at the time, is my view. Guy's a friggin' genius. He was so smart. In terms of Keeping on track.

38:03 to get getting stuff done and look what he achieved. Right. He was Difficult. Difficult.

38:13 Because he wasn't always right. But he was right so much that the mistakes just didn't matter. And I thought You know, the people that Spent enough time with him.

38:25 Know what I'm talking about. Um You know It occurred to me. Uh,'cause I know Wozniak too, not as well as jobs, but

38:34 They really needed each other. They really needed each other. Because Was understood. He was he understood.

38:43 What the Let me draw an analogy here for you. I think it's a good one. Take the situation going on right now with Nvidia. AMD

38:56 to a certain extent in Tel. Um Maybe broad calm. Where policy makers in Washington have decided that we can't sell those chips. to countries like China or Russia.

39:09 Or whatever the list is of adversaries. That's bad policy. And Here's why. What I learned from

39:19 From Jobs. The ch the computer, the chip is the Queen Bee. It's

39:28 It's the it's The Queen Bee. But It has no value without the honeybees, which are the programmers around it that form a community that That spend all of their energy

39:39 Writing code. That works with The Queen Bee, which is the chip. Yeah. pushes out its influence because every coder

39:49 becomes familiar with that firmware that Bosnia computer rights to that platform. Is Part of the honeybees.

40:00 Jobs understood that. He said I've gotta get every honeybee writing. For the map. Writing for the OS of Apple. It's the same with

40:13 The NVIDIA chip. We ні to sell it to everybody. Evr even adversaries, because within That country of Russia or China is some genius kid.

40:27 You don't know who he is or she is. that's gonna write the next piece of firmware or advance AI. From the Queen Bee. The chip. The American Queen Bee.

40:40 The minute you Shut down a market. And you don't Your adversary sends their queen bee in which is Huawei. We can't let that happen because I don't think the lawmakers understand what jobs understood.

40:54 You create the hive with the queen in the middle. That's the chip. You convince every b around. To make the honey. which is the software and it is the AI in this in this case. You make it off that chip, and when you advance the chip again, everybody knows how to take that set.

41:13 And Stay within the American Ship. That you're advancing. Maybe you keep the one generation behind, maybe.

41:23 Maybe that's the policy, but you don't ever Let an adversary put their queen bee in the middle of the hive. You see what I'm saying? Of course, and that is what Jobs did. That was the war between Gates and Jobs. On the OS, on the operating system. Yeah, it's the same thing. It's exactly the same thing. And so so when I see this policy now.

41:44 I go out of my mind. I mean the first thing I do is get on a plane go to Washington because A I is so important for all the investments I've made. I do not want to be putting Chinese honey into my companies at all.

41:57 That's simple. So for that person that's stewing over their ideas now. If they had just A couple of minutes with you. And they and they asked you the question, Kevin, I'm about to start this business, I'm about to go on this journey of trying to go from zero to something in my life.

42:12 Is there anything else? That I need to know as I set up upon this sort of next ten years of my life. I'm twenty one years old. What what are because I think every entrepreneur has like their principles. You you talked about one, which is the signal versus noise thing. Are there any other foundational principles that you think are conducive with success? Yeah, I mean I've what I'm t telling twenty one twenty one year olds now is look.

42:37 Go work for twenty four months. in a sector you love, that you're passionate about. Even if they don't pay you. Go in there and be an apprentice. Um If you're that passionate, you're gonna be able to convince some manager to go work for free in there. You're just they're gonna recognize your passion. And

42:53 They're gonna bring you in. Do that first. Most Young entrepreneurs saying nah nah I don't want to work for anybody. Yeah, you do actually. You you do want to work for somebody. You wanna just understand how all the cogs move. Just twenty four months.

43:07 After that. Launch. The first one will probably fail. gonna start with your parents giving you ten thousand bucks, whatever it is, friends and family. But we you will have the baseline knowledge of your industry. You will know who the participants are, you will understand how it works.

43:22 And you'll have a ha much higher probability of success. But the key is to launch sort of in your Or in your middle You need to burn a few years failing. And and that that matters.

43:36 On the point of H how to lead people. Uh when people hear about jobs' approach, they sometimes assume that you also have to be an arsehole. And this is the this is the conflicting thing because the world has changed since jobs was

43:49 In a leadership position. Things have gone a little bit more Soft. Shall one say. Have you seen all f all types of leadership win out in that regard?

43:58 The direct. you know, signal focused. kind of brash approach. But also the kind of thing. Approach.

44:07 I don't think kind works. I think respect works. I I I the same number of assholes are out there being successful now that they were back in the nineties. Um It doesn't matter. Um

44:20 whether you're an asshole or whether people like you or not. I mean people get so stuck on this stuff. It it's The team you're building Are not your friends. They are the team you're building to execute on a mandate.

44:35 Your customers come first, they're more important. And then of course the employees and how are they respected or not. There are people that work for me I don't like. It doesn't matter. I respect them. I respect their ability

44:48 To execute. And That above all is the most important thing. If you start getting into interpersonal relationships, you will fail because you may have to fire that person one day. People that hire family. Take huge risk.

45:01 Nepotism's a horrible disease. It's it's uh some of the greatest uh private companies on earth. never let the kids run them. They just put them on the board and they hire professional management. That's how they keep wealth Multi generational.

45:16 Think about TetraPak, for example. People may not know that name, but it's a massive successful company, IKEA. I mean, you know, it's sort of you have to learn those lessons. It's it's um It's about respect. In both directions. It's not about likability.

45:34 Or softness or S Social. met metric. It it really isn't. And

45:43 Trying to redefine leadership that way. Because it's on trend. It's not gonna work. I started my first business at twelve years old and then I started more businesses at fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and eighteen. And at that time, what I didn't realise is that being a founder with no money meant that I also had to be the marketeteer, the sales rep, the finance team, customer service, and the recruiter. But if you're starting a business today, thankfully there's a tool that wears all of those hats for you. Our sponsor today, which is Shopify.

46:16 Because of all of its AI integrations, using Shopify feels a bit like you've hired an entire growth team from day one, taking care of writing product descriptions, your website design, and enhancing your product's images. Not to mention the bits you'd expect Shopify to handle, like the shipping, like the taxes, like the inventory. And if you're looking to get your business started, go to shopify.com slash Bartlett and sign up for a$1 per month trial. That's Shopify.com slash Bartlett. What about finding the definition of the word company is group of people. So in terms of finding great people.

46:52 Is there anything that you can offer to entrepreneurs that are listening about how you've done that and what you've learned over time? The mistakes you've made with assembling your group of people. Yeah, hiring them without testing them first. I've made that mistake. So you so you now test them first? Yeah. Just'cause someone says they can execute doesn't mean they can.

47:10 I mean it's of course, and you're an interviewer, you're not gonna say I can't execute. you know, you're looking at their past, you're saying, This looks terrific. Looks like you can fit in, but it's on a piece of paper. They haven't been road tested, they haven't been put in a situation where they have to make individual decisions. That that have consequence. The people you want are able to make decisions that have consequence.

47:29 Good bad good consequence, bad consequence. You don't know yet. But They have to have be able to make that decision on their own. Without Calling you up because you gave them that mandate. Maybe you

47:40 put a set of parameter you could spend a million bucks no more without calling me, but whatever it is. I don't want to hear from him. I just want the outcome. What about resilience and hard work? How how much does that matter to you? Because I know you said you they can work when you know they as long as they get the job done. But are you trying to figure out if they are

47:58 A bit of a psychopath in terms of hard work if they're possessed obsessed. I don't find the ones that are psychopaths hard work are actually the most successful. It's not the case. I find the ones that are eclectic people. That have other pursuits that are Nothing to do with The business they're in. That

48:18 to crazy staff You know, maybe it's riding motorcycles in the desert. I don't know. You know, I'm these are the examples I'm just using'cause I'm living with them. And say, look, I've gotta go and ride a bicycle across the the desert. Okay. How many days are gonna be on?

48:33 I don't know, maybe three. Okay. Is that anything that is immediate? That tells me that If you look at if you look at the year's outcome from that person, you're gonna find that they probably outperformed.

48:47 You want the eclectic ones, you want the ones. That are not just robots working. It's gonna be cheaper to get a robot. I'm gonna buy those two when they come available. I want people that have creative

49:03 And Unusual solution that you know, just think outside of the box. It's it's really interesting that way. Everybody wants to hear from you about is

49:18 How to keep and grow your wealth. Because you know, making Well, if I kind of understand through the lens of entrepreneurship, take a big bet. Um hopefully have an exit or you know draw a dividend or make profit from a company you started. But in terms of

49:31 What you did. and your relationship with your money. What is the most important things for someone to understand who's just trying to grow their money? Yeah, yeah, and I learned this from my mother and I actually built a whole indexing company around it. When I was very young I found out something uh that Um

49:46 So she um was fiercely independent. She's one of three daughters, uh of Lebanese descent. My Irish was father, my my father my original father, biological father was Irish. She didn't yeah, there she is, George Ed. So I haven't seen that picture in the one.

50:39 She was very independent. And ever wanted a man to control her life so she started at an early age when she was working for her father.

50:52 They paid the girls. family all work there. She worked in the accounting department. And billing. That she got paid cash. And so she

51:03 Take twenty percent. That cash each week. And She would put it into two asset classes. Stocks that pay dividends.

51:15 Large cap. Stocks. And telco bonds. Seven year telco bonds. paid about six and a half to eight percent back then.

51:26 She bought the long bonds. She had that portfolio for fifty five years. Um She never spent Any of the principle.

51:34 Only the dividends and the interest she put my brother and I through college. You know, she took care of her family and her sisters. When they f fell in hard times. But her rule is very simple. No more than five percent in any one stock or bond of the portfolio, and no more than twenty percent in any one sector. Ever.

51:53 Ever. So when a stock ran up past five, she'd sell it down. This is not genius. This is just diversification. Yeah. When she passed and I s I was the older brother and I saw the portfolio. Because the lawyer said

52:08 Listen, you gotta come down here, you're the executive at Will I said yeah but My mother was middle class. He said no. You gotta come down here. Um she kept her account secret from

52:20 Both of her husbands. She wanted her own independent money. And back then you could do that. And um Yeah.

52:29 I mean what that portfolio did, the performance was extraordinary. It was hedge fund guy or anything. Fifty five years. When I saw the results, I said, That's it.

52:41 That's how I'm gonna invest for the rest of my life. Exactly what Georgia did. No more than five percent. In any one stock ever, no mat no matter What it is and no more.

52:52 The twenty percent in any one sector, with the exception of real estate. Which is a very large part of what I Have Mm. And I it's a th it's a third.

53:02 So that's broken the rule, but there's reasons for that and I'm very happy with that portfolio. But Um that If sh if if everybody that's listening to this does that They will maintain and grow their wealth, but it's people bet, they make big bets.

53:18 They just they think they're so damn right. They put half their net worth into one sector or one stock and they get wiped out. That's what happens. So would your mother pick the stocks herself, or would she invest in an index fund or she indexed. Okay even back then, you know, the they didn't have ETFs, but they had mutual funds that said their own the only

53:39 stock in this mutual fund i is it doesn't have any debt and it pays dividends, you know, whatever. They were very rudimentary back then. They were just collections of stocks. I think she had like th twenty eight names or something like that in the portfolio. But if you looked at them, they were really boring large cap names. But they were f sectorally diverse. There wasn't ten sectors back then. There's only there was there wasn't eleven, there was ten So they didn't have real estate as a sector. So

54:06 But you know, I looked at it saying, Well, these are really boring. You learnt a lot about money from your early upbringing, right? From your That early context. Yeah, because what she said to me was look You know

54:20 I I even do this today with wealthy people call me up all the time and say, look, um you know, they get divorced. It's really h I this a very wealthy woman got divorced recently and she said, Look I you know Divorcing and She's a billionaire. She was divorcing. She'm more multi billionaire. And so she said, Look, I I'm getting everybody's calling me up. Um

54:42 To be my advisor. 'Cause I'm separating from my husband, it's all his guys. That did all the management of our fairly wealth. Would you be my advisor? I said no, I don't do that. Um But

54:53 You know, I can I can just give you some basic advice. And you can hire people to stick on the mandate and I gave her Georgette's strategy, but she I I had her do something else too. So let's get a piece of paper. You're a billionaire.

55:06 Let's put everything on this piece of paper on the last ninety days that you've spent on. Whatever the hell it is, I don't care. And let's put on no computer, no spread sheet on this. Let's look at all the income that you've made off. Your portfolio as it stands now, whether it's gold you have or land or stocks or bonds.

55:26 Let's just ch do a ch a gut check. And Do you outspend yourself? She said, Why would I give a shit? I said Wouldn't you like to know?

55:36 How much money you're burning? Living your lifestyle the way you live? Just out of interest. Maybe you have enough for the rest of your life, but maybe you want to give some of it to your family one day or or give it to charity. Wouldn't you like to know? Because one of my rules is never outspend yourself on any thirty or sixty day cycle, ever.

55:53 Ever. I don't have any debt. So So I'm very careful about that. And we went through this little thing. She freaked out. She was

56:03 Passing away money. Just bleeding. Hundreds of thousands of dollars a week. I mean, I don't care how rich you are, you don't want to be stupid. And

56:15 I said, does that shock you? One of the things has to happen. I mean You're you're losing millions of dollars a quarter. Like Why?

56:24 Why? Like you don't you ha you've had nobody restrict what you do with your money. 'Cause you're gonna have to sell stocks at some point or sell gold or sell land to keep this up. And are you really that happy? Like

56:37 What do you what's all the shit you're buying? Like what is all this crap? that you you don't need. It was a eye opener for her. So I'm my point is most people don't do that exercise. I don't care if you're only making fifty six thousand a year or sixty eight, the average salary. So are you in the camp that you shouldn't spend money on the small things, like the coffee, if you don't need it, you should make the coffee at home, is that kind of I I just I can't stand it when I see kids that are making seventy grand a year. Spending twenty eight dollars for lunch.

57:05 I mean, that's just stupid. It's just think about that in the context of that being put into an index and making eight to cent eight to ten percent a year for the next fifty years. What's an index for someone that doesn't matter. I even have it I even built an app for this. purpose just so I could there's many apps out there you don't have to use mine. Mine's called Beanstalks, but you just allocate fifteen percent of your salary and it automatically puts it into two.

57:30 Buckets, some stocks and some bonds. The stocks are ETFs, exchange traded funds that just track the S P five hundred. Very simply. The S P five hundred is the top five hundred stocks. Yeah. So it's just you know, people that tell me, Oh, I can beat the S P I can pick stocks. They're so full of crap. Not over the long period they can. So it's better you might as well just own ETS. I have a version of the S P that I designed with other people that strips out all the crappy balance sheets, but that's just me. You can just buy the index that you want. You know the EGF. And then you pay low fees. And then over time it appreciates, and then if you buy some treasury bills or w uh fixed income, you get that. You should have less of those when you're young and more of them when you're older. Just just diversification.

58:10 But You The best test I do with my kids' friends too. Go into a closet. Go into your closet.

58:17 And look at how much shit you have you don't wear. Because you either bought it'cause you thought you were gonna wear it. And never wore it or wore it once. And you end up wearing twenty percent of your portfolio all of the time and eighty percent you you pissed away. I mean that's really stupid. And so

58:35 For a young person, a young woman, or man Don't do that. Start putting in Just By the m minimum stuff. And another thing I learned from my mother, this is interesting'cause I saw it happen at her death.

58:47 She You know Would buy two Chanel jackets a year. Really expensive Chanel jackets. Handmade Chanel jackets. I do business with Chanel because of you know the legacy of my mother and the whole Coco Chanel thing and watches. I love those guys.

59:04 And Her theory was This will never get old. And it never did. A classic vintage Chanel jacket from the fifties that's well kept.

59:16 Is worth a fortune. Today. The classic. It still wears beautifully. They're so well made. So she wouldn't buy crap. She'd buy really good stuff, but a little just small amounts of it. And over the years she built up this portfolio of amazing clothing. And when she died, the women in in our family had a catfight over her portfolio. Unbelievable. Is that in part why you have so many watches? I've noticed you have a watch on either wrist right now.

59:39 Yeah, I'm pretty big in watches. I mean but But watches to me Every piece I have Marks something in my life that was important, a deal. A child.

59:50 Graduation. Um You know, something, every piece. I've got a lot of watches. I I don't even say any more because of the insurance policy I have. I got a lot. Do you invest in s you you're talking about your your mother's investing strategy and one of the things you said is she invested in dividend stocks. Yes.

1:00:06 What is a dividend stock? And should I be investing in dividend stocks? Yeah. I mean, you know, a company if it's profitable and it's operating, its business plan is working and it's growing market share, at some point says I'm going to distribute some of the success of our profits to our shareholders. That's the dividend. And so they send that cash to you and you can either redeploy it r um in other ways or live off it or whatever. Many tech stocks until recently did not pay dividends, but now the behemoth tech stocks do pay dividends because The demand of an aging population is I need to eat. And so I like to own the stock for growth, but I also want to get some of the profits. And so dividend paying stocks uh used to be utilities, uh, but not so today. Every s every sector has dividend paying stock, so I prefer to own dividend paying stocks, div payers.

1:00:52 And then I also own fixed income products. I also own crypto now and I own alternative assets like gold and watches. My watch collections has actually done quite well, even though there's been a correction. There's volatility, but I have some watches that have You know, I bought for Two hundred thousand are worth over a million today. Crypto.

1:01:10 So Are you still bullish on crypto as an investment? I am actually, but people get crypto confused with its real potential. Um Uh Let's talk about

1:01:21 Digital payment systems. Because what's about to pass first, we're days away from this happening, is the Genius Act, which is actually the stablecoin act. It's it was just passed by the Senate forty eight hours ago, it's going back to the House. I I actually worked on that bill two years ago. So if that bill passes, it's really nothing to do with speculating on crypto. It's a new form of payment. So If I wanted to order a watch in uh from Seumon Bridge, who's somebody I buy watches from, he's a master watchmaker. Right now I have to take US dollars, I've got to get through a know your client um prerogative. Um I'm treated like a criminal by transferring hundred thousand dollars over, turning it into Swiss francs. Takes about a week. I get screwed for about two hundred basis points in the whole thing.

1:02:00 If I if he accepted USDC, which is actually a uh a stablecoin back with the US dollar, just went public, very successful IPO, I was a shareholder in that company, too. That's one of my best IPOs in in the last two years. The transaction would happen. And

1:02:17 The fees would be at hundredth of what the costs are right now. So it's a digital payment system. The price doesn't s It's not. It's no it's no speculation on it, it's backed by the US dollar. Treasury bills.

1:02:28 So it's sort of a new form of of digital payment That's different than Bitcoin, which is a speculation. It's If you believe in Bitcoin, you think it's a digital gold and you

1:02:41 Live to the volatility. I believe in both. I believe that the crypto will be the twelfth sector of the S P in some period of time because it provides productivity to all eleven other sectors. So the way I own it is I own The exchanges.

1:02:58 My exchange up in one called Wonderfi up in Canada just got acquired uh last week or two weeks ago by Robin Hood. I'm happy because I think Vlad who runs Robin Hood's great. And n now he's got a million plus accounts in Canada in a market that he'd never participated in. But the point is This is never going away. It's gonna stay forever. So how do you participate? You can buy some Bitcoin, just like you can buy gold. buy it an ETF or actually own it yourself, you can buy the exchanges.

1:03:24 You can Use Um, you know, can buy circle stock now it's public. You can Circle makes USDC, you can buy USDC in in an account and make four point one percent interest on it right now. So there's a lot of ways to participate. But yes, I'm here to stay. But I've grow I've grown up. I was around during the period where the crypto cowboys lived. And and I survived that all. And I even testified in front of the Senate and the House and whatever else the testimonies were.

1:03:49 Join me. The tumultuous period. And most of those guys went to jail. Your portfolio in terms of Bitcoin allocation or crypalllocation, what is it now? It's at about all in. It was 19.1 percent. Yeah, we have to keep it under 20, it's a sector. So remember, in that is the cryptos itself, Bitcoin, the USDC, and the shares of the infrastructure companies. Like circle and everything else. I've got, you know, it was a very successful IPO. One of the first things most people do when they get a bit of money, usually from the

1:04:20 Their job is they get a mortgage on a house. Because we're kinda taught as we grow up that the best way to make or the the the not maybe the best, but the most obvious way to create wealth is to buy your first home. Yeah. There's a very basic rule for that. And I understand it and I did the same thing.

1:04:39 But what I made sure again for my mother was Never let the mortgage and the cost of maintaining the house be more than one third Of your income. One third of your income.

1:04:53 If it's more than one third you bought too much house. So it's better to buy a house that's maybe it's only gonna be nineteen hundred square feet to start. In a neighborhood that You may not want to stay there for the rest of your life, but Start to accrue the benefit of real estate from that point of view, learn how to manage it. Maybe you rent part of it out or whatever.

1:05:10 But it can't be more than a third of your income. The mistake that people made and they're starting to suffer from it now is when money was so cheap. Mortgage mortgage rates were under four percent, or three point two percent some of them. They bought massive houses. And now they're running into having to refinance those houses at much higher rates, more than seven percent.

1:05:29 And it's becoming sixty, seven, eighty percent of their income. They're screwed. They bought too much house. So it's about making sure that you can manage that. And also you want some diversification. Yes, a mortgage is okay. Particular if you're having a family.

1:05:43 Because you're gonna pay rent or you're gonna pay a mortgage one of the two. But she wants some diversification and just starting to build up that. investment account for when you retire. So that you have something to live up. If you only put aside fifteen percent, if you're you're making seventy thousand a year and you put fifteen percent aside. From when you're twenty five?

1:06:03 Will have over a million and a half dollars if you just invested it. In the stock index in the S P five hundred. That's what that's what history has told you. In what time frame? Your whole career. I mean you're gonna be sixty five, you're twenty five. Sixty five.

1:06:16 You just stick with that. protocol. And you'll watch it grow. You'll watch it grow. You go up and down as the market goes up and down, some years it'll go flat, whatever. But it's the people that don't even think ahead and find themselves at forty five mired in debt, including a mortgage. You want to get rid of your mortgage in your forties. Most people's primary investment asset is the house they buy. Yes, it is, but it's also the debt they own. It's a primary asset. How much debt does it have on it? It's only the equity value is the asset. So if you're buying a house that's too big and it's you've only put down ten percent and it's ninety percent mortgage. What do you really own? You really own the ten percent

1:06:54 Sometimes housing goes flat for a while. It's It's okay. But it's not okay if it's too much house.

1:07:03 If you're a twenty five year old and you're on that seventy K that you talked about. And your objective was to make money. You don't have kids, you don't you're not in a relationship. Would you buy a house? No. No, I wouldn't because why do I need a house if I'm only unless I'm renting as an income property.

1:07:20 I'm buying a house because I'm getting married. I'm going to raise a family. I need a house. I mean that's that the the use case for buying a house you think. I think it is. But it's not there are many people that say, Oh, I love real estate, I'm gonna buy three houses, I'm gonna rent them out. That's a different business. And I know people in their twenties that do that. In fact they're successful. That's all they do. And so that their job is to find houses, buy them, fix them up, rent them. And they manage that geographically tight portfolio.

1:07:45 It happens a lot in student housing, for example. Got a good friend who's involved in student housing, he's very successful. He just focuses on one aspect buildings that rent to students and he manages it. And he you know raises a family, he's successful. But that's one thing he does. That's not the same as saying I'm gonna buy a house because I'm I just got married and I'm gonna raise I'm gonna have a child in the next twenty four months.

1:08:06 Then you should have a house. But if you're ch you said to me I'm single, I want to make money, I wouldn't buy a house. That's not the number one asset class. I think I'd get a diversified portfolio. And just ride the pony with that for a while until I meet That special person I'm gonna, you know. And then I have a little nest egg I can work with. I mean

1:08:26 Wealth creation. Comes down to one word. Discipline. That's it. The ability to look at something and say

1:08:36 I'm not gonna buy that. I'm gonna keep that money working for me. Not many people have that discipline. Wealthy people have that discipline. You meet them later in life.

1:08:48 You realize when they were young and had nothing. Even the ones that were employees their whole lives that are now financially free. had the discipline to say no. There's so much stuff you don't need. And you should never buy a watch unless you can afford it.

1:09:02 ever go on debt for a watch, because people hear this stuff say I'm gonna buy watches like O'Leary with red bands. No you're not That's why I wear watches now that cost under five hundred dollars to show kids. You wanna get into horology, you don't have to spend Yeah. Fifty thousand dollars. Here's a

1:09:17 There's a time X for Two hundred sixty five dollars. It looks beautiful. Look at that. You said uh You know, don't buy the house until you meet your partner, et cetera. How much does the person that you fall in love with have an impact on your

1:09:28 finances your money, your chance of success, in your view. Everything. Are you kidding? I mean it's it's everything. If you read I mean think about this. Y you need to find somebody if you're an entrepreneur, so that's for the we're talking about the third now that wanna go on the rocket ship ride. You better find somebody that's willing to tolerate the fact that you're never home.

1:09:49 For the first ten years. They're gonna raise a family by themselves. Because There's no balance in life. That that idea of balance is complete bullshit. I mean it's just bullshit. You have to work so hard to compete globally these days in every sector. You're gonna work your ass off. And it's not gonna happen over I mean, Anna Sky did it in three years, but she had worked much harder previously. It was not her first deal.

1:10:13 But she was just lucky. I mean she Was this the cat DNA? I mean she she she she she but she's you know she's she's working again. She's back w she wants to work. I mean that's what happens. You never stop working. But the thing is. That partnership. And this is what people don't get about marriage. Marriage is a business. I know people go nuts when I say that, but it's a business and

1:10:38 The first child you're gonna have. Is money. It's gonna be the first child, and it's gonna sit at the table with you every day. It's It's there. Sitting there.

1:10:48 If you don't have money, you don't have a marriage. I mean the reason people get married is to form a form of financial stability so that they can afford a family. And you have to figure out Yeah, I'm I'm I've been with my wife a long time and we've been separated for a couple of years. But uh you know, family's very important to me, so I we got back together again and we and you know, our daughters back together and very happy we did it.

1:11:10 But It's We make financial decisions together. We we always check in. You know, anything that's material.

1:11:21 you know, if we're gonna do a renovation or something and and I respect her for that. I have a lot of respect for her because she doesn't just spend mone we didn't have any money when we started. We had nothing. That's why a great marriage can work because you build it together. You really care about it. You care about your family. You also care about what you you've created in wealth. And I consider my money her money, like'cause she was the family that let me go and do this stuff. Now I don't have the same relationship with our kids that she does because she raised them. But that's the thing you give up and you have to give something up, that's it. You can be a great father, a great provider, but you're never gonna have the closest that she had reading them stories when they were young. I wasn't there.

1:11:58 But you know, the outcome has been good. I think everybody looks at that and says, All right, that's great. But My mother never believed in entitlement and so I don't believe in it either. I'm not gifting my kids A ton of money. You know?

1:12:11 I I want them to launch and they've done that successfully. They gotta they gotta work. You know, they gotta do their thing. I've heard you say before that the most important financial decision you'll ever make is who you'll marry. Yes. Why

1:12:23 Because think of the geometric loss of wealth. Every time you Get divorced. You pay the woman that you divorced or man

1:12:33 And you pay the government. a third often thro capital gains and liquidation. Because you can't separate all the assets without liquidating them sometimes. So you've got the government sitting there, you've got the other spouse sitting there. This is the stupidest thing you can ever do. It took your whole life to To actually

1:12:55 Create this nest egg. Could be you know, you're forty five or whatever, you've you've got a comfortable life and all of a sudden you don't like your wife or husband. Think about that for a while. Because you are going to wipe out Up to two thirds of your wealth. You better really like somebody else a lot.

1:13:13 And frankly. Sometimes it's not. The other person that you're divorcing, it's you. You're the problem. If you're getting married for the third time, you're a guy or a woman.

1:13:25 It's not them. It's you. There's something wrong with you. And you should probably not get into another economic union. You should probably just date till you drop dead.

1:13:34 Because it's stupid. Marriages are tough. I mean they're tough. Anybody's been married for more than twenty years knows exactly what I'm talking about. But they have they accrue more benefit than than You know, anything. So if as long if you're happy fifty one percent of the day with your wife, Stay with him or her.

1:13:50 Husband or wife. You that's very important. How often do you think divorces are a result of money issues? Well, you may be shocked at this. I wrote a book. um about this and I decided uh men, women of money a long time ago. Ten years plus

1:14:09 And I did some research and I I uh went to meet some of the top Um divorce lawyers. North America. In New York, in Boston.

1:14:19 In other cities. And I should look. I r I wanna kinda to a pie chart of reasons for divorce that seemed fifty percent seem to end in divorce within five to seven years. Every one of them, they didn't know each other, said it's not infidelity. Nothing to do with it. Most marriages can

1:14:36 Uh survive infidelity. They can't survive financial stress. And so what happens invariably is You fall in love, but you didn't do any due diligence on that person's spending habits or their financial history. Because

1:14:51 L'amore is so wonderful in the early days. You didn't do any diligence on Or them.

1:15:01 Or their brother or bankruptcy in the past or whatever it is. And then you get married. And you know, the euphoria starts to wear off and you notice that The other is outspending. You.

1:15:14 Just Buying a lot of stuff. Beyond your means. And that starts the first Friction.

1:15:23 And then that credit card comes in with a hundred thousand dollars on it. At twenty three percent interest and another And you're you're starting to sink. Because you may have married somebody who can't stop spending.

1:15:39 This is just a typical There are people that can't have no discipline. They just can't. They gotta have the boat, they gotta have this, they gotta have that, and they pressure their other to say, look, I wanna keep up with the Joneses next store, even though they may only each have a salary of a hundred grand each. Can't do it. And they have kids and they're trying to put them to college.

1:15:59 That's divorce. That's Why? Almost ninety percent of of unions break up is is is that classic Financial pressure. And

1:16:11 Divorce gets them out of that mess. Because they can no longer spend on your credit card anymore, but it's a horrible way to go. So I've you know, I'm an investor in a company called Holopren Up that does divorces for uh does um uh prenups for women. And prenups Forced during the euphoric period.

1:16:28 Diligence. It's that simple. You're gonna find out if that person has a financial problem. going into the marriage. They have to disclose.

1:16:38 Their financial background. So you you talk about these five love languages of money. The mooch someone who won't pay for anything. Right. Should

1:16:47 I date someone like that? It's a warning signal. It's a problem. Or they don't really want you for companionship. They just want you for financial support. The spenderholic, someone who always offers to pay for everything to appear popular and successful.

1:17:02 Bad morning sign. Huge. I mean that isn't that is Insecurity. measurable by cash outlay.

1:17:11 The loafer, someone who has no ambition and drive for money. The thief, someone who steals. Can have no tolerance for that. And the meaning a balanced spender who lives within their means.

1:17:25 Love that. Mary Amini. That's it. That's that's the those are the marriages that last an entire life. That's it. That's what you're looking for. That's

1:17:34 Great advice right there. Whatever the book costs, that's that's the best value right there. And then ask yourself, Am I dating one of these Or not. You know? You know, you should talk about money on the third date. Think about a date think about dating.

1:17:49 First date. Oh my goodness, this is a really interesting person. Um or not. Then there's never a second date. Second date I want To learn more.

1:17:57 I'm really interested. You're going into a third date, there's something going on. There's something going on. You both want to meet again. That's the first time you should say look. I know this is crazy. But

1:18:10 We're here together a third time because something's going on here. And I'm just wondering. What are your long term goals? I mean, it's not about our marriage or anything else other than we're having a great time, but What are your ambitions? I'm really interested in you. I'd like to know what you think. And the maybe the woman says, or the guy says, What are you checking me out? You say, Yeah.

1:18:28 Yeah, relationship. Yeah. It's a form of Finding out is the connection. You know, I I I should be a marriage counselor. That's what I think. I mean it's it's really

1:18:39 Dating is is the is the dance. But it should involve exploring where we're going financially. I've built companies from scratch and backed many more. And there's a blind spot that I keep seeing in early stage founders. They spend very little time thinking about HR. And it's not because they're reckless or they don't care. It's because they're obsessed with building their companies. And I can't fault them for that. At that stage you're thinking about the product, how to attract new customers, how to grow your team. Really how to survive. And HR slips down the list because it doesn't feel urgent. But sooner or later It is. And when things get messy, tools like our sponsor today, Just Works, go from being a nice to have to being a necessity. Something goes sideways, and you find yourself having conversations you did not see coming. This is when you learn that HR really is the infrastructure of your company and without it, things wobble. And just work stops you learning this the hard way.

1:19:31 It takes care of the stuff that would otherwise drain your energy and your time, automating payroll, health insurance benefits, and it gives your team human support at any hour. It grows with your small business from startup through to growth, even when you start hiring team members abroad. So if you want HR support, that's there through the exciting times. And the challenging times, head to just works dot com now. That's just works. Dot com. One of the big uh protagonists in the story of many things we've discussed, money, investing, building businesses now is this thing called artificial intelligence, which you mentioned earlier. Yes. It's like entered the room. Yes. It's changing lots of these equations in a really profound way.

1:20:09 Yeah, again, g for that person who is maybe at the start of their career, or even, you know, they're they're a lawyer right now. How are you thinking about AI? What should they be thinking about? Because I don't think we've seen something quite like this. Not certainly not in my lifetime. I've not seen disruption of this scale. I wasn't around for the Doctor Combium. I was too young, I was ten or something. I was eight. Yeah. So so how should we be thinking about this moment? Is it a huge opportunity for wealth creation or

1:20:32 Yeah it's immense. It's bigger than the internet. Uh I'll tell you why. I wanna keep it down to earth, uh, because um I'm actually using it now in use cases. There's every sector of the economy, every aspect of research, every aspect of business has a huge opportunity here, but let's just take use cases that you would understand, everybody listening would understand. In today's post Pandemic world.

1:20:56 Most businesses have developed large and small direct consumer strategies where they try and build relationships with customers and sell them product direct. Yeah, they still use retail. Say you're Nike or something. And um You we you were twenty seven percent uh, you know, direct to consumer before the pandemic, you're now fifty percent. And and direct to consumer gets you Higher margins, but it also gets you data.

1:21:18 Get you information about the preferences of your customer base, what they like, what they don't like, the flavors and what they buy, when they buy, where they buy it, all that stuff. That's very interesting, that data. And Let me give you an example. Wine business. If you think about

1:21:34 The wine business, the challenge of a Thousand year old business. You don't know what the weather's gonna be like. You don't know what varietals to to to grow. because you don't know what the preference of the customer is because you're selling it through multiple tiers of distribution. During the pandemic, forty three states in America opened up direct to consumer sales from the wineries in the West Coast.

1:21:54 For the first time ever the wineries found out. What people buy. Where they buy it, when they buy it, what they drink. but varietals and I'm in the wine business. I sell the three million bottles a year of wine. One of my companies.

1:22:06 Actually a shark tank company. Um and we partner with a company called uh QVC. We sell on online and and and so I can tell you today. This month. This week.

1:22:18 The number one varietal in southern Florida. For women ages forty four. is Moscato. A sweet wine.

1:22:26 I think it tastes like shit. I don't care what I think. It's the number one wine right now. And I knew that So to make that Vridal available. Six months ago.

1:22:35 So that I would be able to ship it and put the inventory, the CapEx in the right place at the right time to support that demand. For the rest of this summer. A sweet cold Moscato wine. That means I spent a lot less money.

1:22:50 A lot less risk. I don't have any vials they don't watch this summer. I have exactly what they want. That was AI. It cost me virtually nothing. to get that data. You u it five, ten years ago it would have cost me a million bucks to go do all the market research. I got that for eighteen thousand dollars.

1:23:08 So that's using an AI tool. Here's another example. So do I use that tool? A hundred percent. And there's many tools. You don't have to just use chat. There's many different competing platforms. So we use them all. We check the assumptions by checking it all on all of them, see the little variances.

1:23:24 Number two. I have to shoot an ad. I have to shoot a commercial. I'm gonna shoot it here in LA. I'm gonna do it in a studio like this with a green screen.

1:23:34 And um I'm gonna spend, you know Two hundred fifty thousand dollars for a thirty uh you know, a fifteen, a thirty, and a sixty out of the same shoot. And I'm then gonna go into post. with the green screen and I'm gonna spend more money in posts. I'm gonna add whatever I need, whatever background I'm gonna need. Or

1:23:52 I could fly To Dubai. Where they have a giant studio with a six K digital wall. Where AI link up Your script.

1:24:05 to the background. There is no post production. You basically shoot the commercial. In four hours. And it's done.

1:24:15 The background's perfect. The imagery's perfect. Your script is perfect. And I did that two weeks ago for the first time. I'd never seen that before. We did it for a fraction of the cost of what it would have cost to do it in the old way in post production.

1:24:29 But then I'll say what freaked me out. They reshot the commercial without me there, using Kevin. Agent.

1:24:40 An AI view. I wasn't even there. And Just to show That they could produce a new commercial with the same background.

1:24:49 For nine thousand dollars. That would have cost. Four hundred thousand from scratch. So there's gonna be a lot of job disruption then. Because as you said, but on the other hand, I've now got content for that

1:25:04 business. I was shooting that c you know, I got content for that particular business I was gonna shoot that commercial for. And I said, Guys Let's tweak it and shoot it again. He said, Yeah, we'll do it in two seconds. We'll send you the The fifteen seconds back.

1:25:18 I said I I I don't like what I said there. Can I change what I said? Yeah well do you want it in Spanish? Do you want it in Japanese, you want it in Arabic? That's the power, the productivity that we're gonna get. We're gonna our budget's for producing content. And software and everything else, right? Creating everything is gonna get it. That all came from NVIDIA chips.

1:25:44 That not that's not from Chinese chips. Whoever controls the chip and the honeybees that the honeybees are those guys are all Indians and Pakistanis. They're genius mathematicians. That's the team over there running off that platform. If we had let Anyways, I don't wanna I'm just freaked out that we gotta control that. We we need democracy to control that. Your children, what are you saying to them though about their professional

1:26:06 ambitions in a world where Creating stuff like that and you know. Whether it's who do you want to do your your taxes, an accountant or an AI, who do you want to do your legal documents, who do you want to do you're any sort of like white collar job, you're make your videos, edit your videos. I I tell them, you know, everybody's got a lot of angst but AI. I I tell them listen.

1:26:26 Everybody chillacks, it's a tool. You know It's the same classic thing where radio was going to be dis displaced by television. Radio's bigger than it ever has been. It it just it doesn't matter.

1:26:40 The one thing I concern myself with With AI is warfare. And I think the country that has the best AI and data centers. And the most advanced chip technology will win the wars of the future, which will be fought by drones and robots. I know that sounds kinda crazy. No, it doesn't sound crazy. That's where it's happening now, isn't it? I try and explain to them my honeybee analogy saying this is about defense.

1:27:09 I don't want to live under authoritarian I know we debate the whole uh I don't wanna live around Chinese honey. I just don't. And those are gonna be the two superpowers.

1:27:21 You both you're in one vertical. Either you let the Chinese make the honey? On AI. Or we make the honey. And let the Chinese buy some honey from us.

1:27:31 I know where I wanna live. I know what I wanna do, and I think I can convince a lot of senators the same idea because you gotta understand the Wozniak jobs analogy that we That was the genius of jobs. Make the honey. But know who the Queen B is. The genius of jobs brings me to a question I've wanted to ask someone like you for a long, long time, which is, Do you think Apple is dead?

1:27:54 No. You don't. You know, it's so interesting. Uh people don't understand the genius of Apple because This is again came from jobs. You know, he used to say to my team.

1:28:07 over and over again, and I mentioned earlier. They don't know what they want until I tell them. And I always just just as close as you and I are right now, you're Steve. See Steve. How the fuck do you know that? How do you know that?

1:28:25 You don't know that. You don't know what you don't know. You said, Show me where I'm wrong. Show me one instance of us working together, I'm wrong. I said, It hasn't happened yet, Steve. Doesn't mean it won't. Get back to work.

1:28:40 Don't worry about it. I'll worry about it. You make the software, I have the chips. Make the software. Go make the honey. I have the clean bee. Don't worry about it.

1:28:50 And That Is pretty Interesting because You gotta prove it.

1:28:58 That he What's wrong. Let's take let's accelerate now. But the philosophy of Apple and I'll give you the w the way you win at it, you look at it. I can go by A three hundred and thirty dollar laptop right here.

1:29:13 with the same processing power of this eighteen hundred dollar Mac. Laptop. Why would I Spin spend eighteen hundred when I could buy this for three hundred. Why?

1:29:26 Brand. I want to be part of this universe. This honey. Right over here. The Apple Care, the fact that the OS works on all the platforms and the messages are shown on all platforms simultaneously. All the OS, all the honey.

1:29:43 is the power of brand. It's I'm not leaving. This universe.

1:29:50 And Apple is One of the world's largest Companies. And you may say, Oh, an innovation is gonna make everybody leave that. platform. I don't think so.

1:29:59 They let other people sometimes bring in a new market and then they take it over. And I saw Steve do that multiple times. He did it. Um With the phone. I was around for that. That was crazy.

1:30:11 I mean He had the vision that we would someday run our software on the phone. I said, You're out of your mind. The screen's too small. He said no. You're gonna go vertical. You're gonna rewrite all this crap vertically. I mean I can't fault him.

1:30:27 On anything, although I kept telling him. You're gonna get it wrong one day, you're not gonna be right all the time. I can't find when he wasn't right. That that's that's the frustration because I teach this You know. to a har bunch of really smart kids at Harvard, of which, by the way, a third are international students.

1:30:44 And They're When did you catch him? So What was he doing?

1:30:53 Was did he have a practice or a or principles that Allow him to see round the corner. He spent a lot of time at night, um You know Even

1:31:06 studying fonts and looking at art and um Focusing on the signal. I think his wife talked about that a lot. She spent more time with him than anybody else, although Waz talks about it a lot because those guys spent countless hours together. And But

1:31:25 Jobs to find He would take Instances from nature. Into his head. Or from Japanese

1:31:35 You know, scripture or text or imagery. And redefine it. into technology. in a way that no one else was doing. And that's the idea of the honey and the bee and the queen and all that stuff.

1:31:49 View of the world. And I don't know if you can understand this, but because it was so It came from nature. It was easy for people to assimilate it. It wasn't foreign. When they looked at the imagery and the design, he he tried to pull from from pleasing images.

1:32:08 From nature, like the fonts on the first Max. I remember when we were writing the code for that saying, Steve This is not what people are used to seeing. On a computer screen, you said. No it isn't.

1:32:20 That's why it's gonna work. You if you think about the very first scalable fonts. I saw that first. And I said, See, this is this is almost foreign. He said, Well how's it make you feel? I said, It makes me feel pretty good. It just looks like it's

1:32:34 If you m I I don't you weren't even born when this stuff was happening. But it was It hi was so far ahead. And this is the same way Elon is redefining whether it's you know, space X or whether it's What he's doing in neurosurgery or Tesla or you know

1:32:53 All of these initiatives, uh, you know, satellite technologies. They are the same, those guys. Except you know, Elon's a hundred percent signal. I said that earlier. They are the same and they should be their treasures, their national treasures. It doesn't matter if you like them, it doesn't matter but what their politics are, it's just irrelevant. The c contributions they're making to society and to America, frankly, and the competitive and competitive nature of of of countries. That's why I thought it was so important that Trump make up with Elon. The most powerful man on earth should have a a very good relationship with the most the richest man on earth because he's the largest industrialist on earth.

1:33:30 Maybe there's like an inherent Inability. By way of them being. Who you just said they are. But they know they're smart enough to know.

1:33:39 It's the same way I felt about jobs. I'm getting back on the plane this quarter. I know he's gonna beat me up. But it doesn't matter. It it's The greater good is that we get this software out there, advanced bath ma you know, math and reading scores. Was he happy?

1:33:53 Steve. I don't know the answer to that question. Do you think he was a happy person? I don't know. He was always barking at me. I never saw him happy. I don't think I ever saw him laugh. I don't He may not have been. You know that I mean that's probably something You look like a torture guy to me.

1:34:13 But um You know, that may have been his curse. I you know some you Do you love him? Yeah. I can see it in your face. Hundred percent.

1:34:27 I saw a lot of emotion in your face the first time you spoke about him and I thought that's surprising for someone that barked at you. Well. He respected me. That's for sure. He wouldn't execute on my ideas.

1:34:39 He expected me to execute on his, but he was never wrong. Where did the emotion stem from? Oh, you know, it brings me back into that room with Heidi Rose in and all the crazy crap. I mean, it was just nuts. And you know the p you know, I'd have to spend a lot of time The only the the only meeting I really remember, um the the one that really sticks in my mind

1:34:59 When we were in Cupertino and we were disc I think I don't know, we were going after him for f eighteen million or something and how he was there. Heidi Rosen. Um she's a famous um Venture capitalist, but she was also kind of the Museum.

1:35:18 The person They could actually deal with jobs all day long. Get Apple. And bring him back to earth when he was out of his mind. I'll give you an example of how that would work. And I've seen her sin, you know. It's it's it's

1:35:30 I don't even know if she remembers this particular Anyways, we leave. He's barking at me. And he's got one of my product managers in tears because she wanted to do the market research. He said, No way, I'm I we're just gonna do what I say and she just felt like her job was useless. And it for him it was. I mean he just didn't give a shit what she thought. Although she ran the universe of Oregon Trail or something, some massive title, like a huge multi million dollar title on the Mac in every hundred and ten thousand schools in America. And

1:35:59 He he was so pissed that you know the in these Old buildings. They have a little window. Where you have a little knob and it only opens up four inches so you can't jump out of it in a hotel or something. So

1:36:11 We were We had a Hertz rental and we're the whole team's going out. I'm gonna drive the car back to San Francisco and the fly back to Boston. And He he undoes the window and he's got his head stuck and there's yelling at me from From

1:36:28 You know what? What the fuck? Like what like what m what more can we we've you already kicked us out, you know? And then on the way, we had these old brick the the earliest cell phones, these brick phones. ID calls me and says Okay He'll do it for twelve million.

1:36:47 I do why we have to go through all that shit. Like Why do we even have to get abused? she said. Why is the sky blue? You know. Just get back on the plane and go do it.

1:36:59 Th it was a huge hit. Like it's just you know it's a huge hit. Like it's just the guy was if you looked at it like uh He he he could he could write the hit songs. That's what he did. You write the hit song. So you don't even if you hate the producer, you want the the guy that can do the hit songs, right?

1:37:12 Could he not have been nice, do you think? Not in his DNA. Yeah. Do you think if he he was a nice person he would say, but that's the thing. That's noise.

1:37:26 He gives a fuck. No being nice is noise. That for him. I mean we spent a lot of time talking about him, but I think there's a lot of lessons learned from him. That I think managers today, parents today Uh certainly CEOs today.

1:37:39 uh you know you're you're about this show's about CEOs, um I wish every CO had spent the time. the minimal time that I spent with jobs had such an impact on me. Yeah. I I I owe a lot of my success to him because I think I always think what was Steve done.

1:37:58 I make decisions like that. It's amazing. The guy's still around. I bet you if you talk to You know, any of the management at at Apple, they they have that Ghost

1:38:07 In those rooms. For sure. Including the current CEO who I think was doing a phenomenal job. He he spent so many hours with jobs. He knows exactly what I'm talking about.

1:38:21 Nobody spent more time in business than that guy, for sure. I asked you a second ago if uh Steve Jobs was happy, but are you happy? I get happier the older I get because um I've I've I'm Very comfortable. I found a place. Um

1:38:36 You know, uh And I this may be just whating does. I mean it just, you know Інвазень, I had a lot of trauma and turmoil and and just You know, um

1:38:51 hard time to find it trying to figure out who I was and I also suffer from dyslexia, which I've come to think of as a superpower now, not An affliction. But

1:39:01 journey you're going to be on until you find it. And then I found it. And then I started on a new journey and and You know It's um

1:39:16 It's something where it You know, you you ask yourself Every day goes by and you know this the noise and signal thing. How much of this day was I happy? Doing the things. And I am very happy if uh if I measure it by

1:39:31 Is there anything that I spend my time doing that I don't want to do today? The answer's no. Because I don't have to. And so I don't waste my time.

1:39:41 I do you know, even coming here to spend two hours with you. When I first, you know, heard about it, I went online and said, Oh yeah, this guy. This guy's great. I'd love to work with him. You know, that kind of thing. you you allocate your time. This is this is I'm happy to do this. I wanna be here. And I think you know we had a very interesting couple of hours together. But

1:40:01 That's the definition of happiness. What concerns me My wife often says to me. We don't need any more money. Why are why are you

1:40:10 Flying three hundred hours a year on an airplane. What are you doing? I said I'm happy. Like You know, I'm I'm happy doing this. I wanna do this stuff, you know, I Sometimes I do five cities in a day. It's friggin' crazy.

1:40:25 And it's the wonderful thing about you know, air travel today you can do that. But It's It's sport for you.

1:40:32 It's it's it's so interesting. I get so many interesting opportunities. I can't turn them down. They're just such You know. Are you driven or are you dragged? You use the word trauma there, and I often ask myself that question because I I came from a all what area. I was the black kid with the strange hair and the strange family. I was insecure. I think that resulted in this

1:40:51 this force of will to try and crack the insecurity or to prove something to myself, which then Resulted in success. I I think there is no drag. There's only driven. Okay.

1:41:05 You don't care about performance. You don't care whether you succeed or not, you're just being sucked into the void of success. You might be able to say that for a rock star that gets a hit song. But um Most of them doesn't last.

1:41:17 I mean you need massive amounts of of drive. And I love the most the most exciting thing I like to do is when someone tells me You can't do that. Like watch insurance. You will never launch a watch insurance company. It you will never do that. You will never get around the compliance state by state. You will never launch in the Middle East. You'll never launch in England.

1:41:39 Bullshit. That's exactly what I did. I found the right team, I found the right partners, I figured it out, I w I was passionate about it. Yeah. I think I'm gonna kick ass.

1:41:50 I think I'm I think in two or three years from now. You won't be able to catch up with me. That's what I think. I'm thirty two years old. What what is the advice that you wish you got at thirty two years old, Kevin? What I have learned and this is

1:42:03 something that you should really think about. For yourself. Your real value, your real Range. Are your followers this army of people

1:42:15 Yeah. Have decided to invest their time in you. You know? You've cut across a a vast swath. of people. So you influence

1:42:29 Very successful managers. And A lot of young entrepreneurs want to hear what you have to say because they are they're expecting you deliver

1:42:39 Valuable information. Across Multiple sectors. And you also have your own data, but men and women. And so

1:42:48 Where do you take that? Because you know it's Do you want to launch a clothing line? Do you want to sell burgers? Do you want to do consulting? You know It's It's You have all those opportunities, but what fits your brand?

1:43:03 And so I have And you'll get to do this. You'll get to do this. You'll be approached by a lot of people that want to ride that network you've built. And my advice to you is

1:43:17 'Cause this has really worked for me. Is this a product or service that I Personally. would use that I would actually use.

1:43:28 Because You'll get offered a lot of money. to talk about. One brand or another brand. They will, and you may be weak and take it.

1:43:38 But The minute Anybody. In your network in your

1:43:47 community thinks you're not authentic, you're fucked. Mm. And you know that. Yeah. And so

1:43:54 You better be authentic, you better be transparent, you better be honest, even when turmoil hits, whatever it's gonna be. I found that saved my ass so many times by just saying, Here's what I know. Here's what happened. And that actually bonds them even closer to you.

1:44:09 And and that's That's the difficulty you're gonna have is how much Do you want to take n because you're gonna have that opportunity. But if you stay authentic and say, I'm gonna do I'm gonna support this brand'cause I use it. Yeah.

1:44:22 Every single brand or commission I have in supporting a business, I use myself. I'm a shareholder in it. And I believe in it and I use the product or you know Whatever.

1:44:35 Like the wines I make myself with my wife, we drink them in our family and everybody knows that. So If it's I wouldn't drink if it's shit wine. Yeah. So it's it's sort of like That's my advice to you because I meet a lot of people. But you're very rare. You what you've built

1:44:52 Maybe by Happen chance that it occurred. Whatever. Alchemy occurred. You have it now. It's yours to lose.

1:45:00 Don't fuck it up. No, everything you said is so true. Obviously the things that I uh The things that we talk about in the show in terms of

1:45:10 brands that I promote, pretty much all of them I've invested my own money into. Yeah. And this is like super important. So I talked about my Whoop. Yeah um If you look at the investments I have and the things I talk about, there's a really clear through line through them. So there's a really clear through and it's actually reflective of just where I am in my life. There's actually a sponsor I used to have on this show that I was very big on, and I just stopped, um I stopped consuming the product. They offered me six million pounds, which is about what, eight million dollars to continue for another year and a half. Yeah. And I said like it just wouldn't I I'm about to basically start Um Talk about and investing in

1:45:42 The antithesis of what you do. Yeah. So I had to turn down that seven million dollars, which is a lot of money for ev anybody. Yeah. But it's because my life shifted and I shifted m in a different direction. People don't see those things. They they don't see that the this foreign government comes along and o offers you four million dollars to go in talk about their country or to go do the Dire VCO in their country. They don't see those decisions that you make. But I think hopefully if you listen to me long enough, you'll see a through line between the things that are authentic to you. Yeah, and I think that so you've already figured it out. And the other thing that I would do and say anybody your age, and'cause I wish I'd done it. Is start focusing on longevity in your thirties. Start thinking about what you eat and what you drink and how much sleep you do and how much exercise you have.

1:46:22 You could live to a hundred and twenty years old. I mean crazy. Yeah, it's sort of If if you understand if you're wearing a whoop, you know what I'm talking about. It's sort of I'm very, very uh focused on what I do and exercise and what I eat and all that. Um But Uh that makes you feel healthier and and more and just better but the

1:46:39 your day as you go through it. But The fact that you figured that out at your age, because most people at your age would have taken the seven million pounds or whatever it was. That would have been a huge mistake. Because

1:46:50 Now the next product that you do endorse I will know with certainty that you use it. Because you told me this. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question that was left for you, funnily enough, I feel like I might have asked it is Where do you believe happiness really comes from?

1:47:15 You know, I think the answer is very simple. Consistently achieving your goals. Because happiness is not a destination, it's a journey. That's what it is. So you have to set those goals, whether it's

1:47:29 Noise to signal going full circle, what we talked about. Or long term. Whatever it is, it's consistently achieving those goals. You'll be happy. Consistently not achieving them, you'll be unhappy. Because it is not

1:47:44 A destination. Happiness is not a destination. Ever. It's a mistake. That's so elusive.

1:47:51 I mean It's just not a destination, it's a journey. This is one of the great things you've taught me today. reaffirmed for me today is this idea of like signal and noise but radical prioritization because kind of dovetailing into what we were just talking about, when you have a lot of opportunity. It gets even harder, I think, to know which ones should be taking your eighteen hours a day.

1:48:12 This is something you're still. You should feel it. You know, you're you're you're kind of a weird dude because you're like a seven year old man in a thirty year old body. You've got you've got the intellect of of experience, which most people don't have at your age. But deals. There's A certain feeling. That you if if you

1:48:29 You should feel that it's a good deal. It should it should be in your gut, and I've learned this. There's many deals that sound great that When I just do the gut check. I don't participate in.

1:48:41 They just Don't give me That came from experience, but you seem to have that in some To avoid that one we just talked about, that's

1:48:52 It it's it's it's intuitive feeling that you generally get by having a lot of winners and losers over time. But you seem to have accelerated that somehow. It's an intuitive nature of where you want to get to. And what it's gonna take to get there and there's gonna be sacrifice along the way.

1:49:09 It's never about the money. Never. It's not about the money. It's You know.

1:49:18 It's do I want to achieve that goal. You know, I'm having a it's it's just a weird thing because I'm I'm I had a similar situation just a couple of days ago. You know, when somebody approached me and said, Look, can you get behind this and And

1:49:35 And I'll pay you. A ton, like just a crazy amount of money and I thought Do I actually want to spend one hour pursuing that? And I went back and said, Look, um No. I just uh it's just not interesting. I I just I don't I can't see my I I can't see myself getting involved in that narrative, which was it was a

1:49:56 But And then he said, Look How about I give you two and a half percent of the company? Yeah. I I just don't want to be associated.

1:50:13 It was noise. Yeah, it's What that would do is Is some opportunity you don't know about down the future. That you you you you you pursued some goal that somehow tainted your brand.

1:50:24 And that opportunity never comes to you. You you're you're the you're the captain of your brand. You got a You have to define yourself right through the journey. It's hard. It's really hard.

1:50:37 You know, it's it's uh It's really hard. And that and that if if there's gonna be a downfall for you, you will have Chosen unwisely somewhere. But it better not be for money.

1:50:50 That's There should never be an amount that you would Take If your gut says no, it doesn't matter. What the money is.

1:50:59 Not after what you've achieved. I mean, you don't need to buy a guarantee anymore. You got it. I'm assuming you've I mean it's very simple.

1:51:10 If you've got five million bucks in the bank. You can do whatever you want now. I mean it's May sound I want more, but

1:51:18 That is enough under Cat Always have. Always. I have an account. It just sits there. With five million bucks in it in T Bills.

1:51:28 I never touch it. That's my nest again. Kevin, thank you. You got it. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us, and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started.

1:51:52 And if you enjoy what we do here. Please join the twenty four percent of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm gonna make to you. I'm gonna do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're gonna deliver the guest that you want me to speak to, and we're gonna continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you.

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