Bruno Fernandes: Roy Keane Twisted My Words. They Offered Me £200M, I Said No.

0:00 In the in the football career you go through A lot. Ups and downs and a lot of uh difficult moments. And uh say the ones that suffered most of the Yeah.

0:16 The um They see your Good moments, your bad moments. Your good side, your bad side also. But uh they always stand by you. Your time at Manchester United's been a bit of a roller coaster like this. And so on that day when you get a big offer to leave Manchester United for a contract that was worth a reportedly 200 million.

0:36 Why didn't you go? Manchester United's captain, Bruno Fernandez, has arguably become their greatest player in the post-Ferguson era. There isn't a single player in the Premier League who has more assists since his arrival. He's won more club player of the year awards than Ronaldo, and only five players have scored more. than his 70 league goals. So I'm at the Manchester United training ground to ask him the questions the footballing world wants to know. Including recently Roy Kean criticised your mentality based on a quote he claimed you said. How do you respond to that? He came criticizing me, killing me, saying that I'm not good enough, that I'm not a good captain, that I'm not a good player for the club. It's okay, I don't mind. What I don't like was when people lie about things. I even asked Ole, his number, to have a word with him. Did you speak to him?

1:34 Guys, I've got a favor to ask before this episode begins. The algorithm, if you follow a show, will deliver you the best episodes from that show very prominently in your feed. So when we have our best episodes on this show The most shared episodes, the most rated episodes. I would love you to know. And the simple way for you to know that is to hit that follow button. But also it's the simple easy free thing that you can do to help us make this show better. And I would be hugely grateful if you could take a minute on the app you're listening to this one right now and hit that follow button. Thank you so, so so much. Uh Bruna.

2:10 Somebody, I always think you have to start with where they started and the the early context that they grew up in. And we were just talking before we started recording about Porto. I'm on a journey to understand why you are the way that you are, because you're such an anomaly on the pitch. And your your career, when I track the journey of where you've come from and how you continually were promoted and pushed forward at a very young age, it's clear to me that your early context, your early upbringing, and whatever it was that was present at that age has shaped you in some very, very important way. What is the sort of earliest thing I need to understand about where you came from and that environment? For me it's all about family is about

2:45 taking care of uh other people and I think to succeed not just in in sports but in life you need to be you need to be very careful of of your surroundings. So I think the values of my family, the values of my of my parents were were what make me the person and the player I am today. The older I've gotten, I'm now thirty three, so I think I'm two years older than you, the more I've realized actually with time what I learned from my parents. And like the values that my dad in particular gave me. He never s a lot of other things, it's not something he ever said to me. It's like

3:18 Modeling what he did. So seeing how he behaves. Yeah. What's that for you? It's it's kind of the same, you know, like um my father was never a person to Just show his emotions too much or tell you what to do or how to do it.

3:32 uh he would just do it and you would understand by by by his behavior, by the way he does things that uh that was was never a question of like hugging, kissing and stuff. It's got now into that even when I come out of games and stuff, you see like I I I I always get his hug, I always get the k his kiss and is this is something that I as a kid I knew how much she loved me, but uh

3:59 In in this small aspects was always my mom giving this kind of flu was more Uh in the way of he was showing how things have to be done, how how much you have to sacrifice yourself to certain things My dad was very strong with me in terms of like games. Imagine I could come out of a game scoring two, three goals or whatsoever, and my parents

4:22 My dad in this case will always pick up the bad moments I had in games to make me understand. That wasn't that. That was good. That wasn't great. It's always margin to improvement, you know, it's always small things. And I think

4:35 I've learned such from such a young age to deal with criticism. biggest clubs in terms of like carrying criticism and attention. That doesn't hurt me. Like

4:47 I don't like it. Obviously no one likes to get criticized. But it doesn't hurt me. It doesn't change the way I behave. It doesn't way to to Doesn't change the way I want to do things. But from the other side. It makes me understand I still

4:59 Things to improve. And I listen to that and I I I I look at my game and I see if it's needed of changing of improvement in my game. And and my dad was always very strong in that with me. And I see nowadays the parents, you know.

5:13 My dad. Never wanted me to be a footballer. He wanted me to become A better person, a better player. On

5:21 Or a better student. Everything I wanted I wanted to do, he just wanted to me to do it at like hundred percent. You need you want to do this, you have to do the best you can. You can't just be happy with uh you go to a test and let's say in Portugal was from zero to hundred percent. And you have Ninety eight.

5:37 and you'll be the most happy person in the world. No. You can be happy because that result is amazing. But you left two percent then. that you still can improve. So you're always always showing me that Even if was just a small thing or a small detail. you still have something more to do, you still still have something more that you can improve or become better. And that's something that has stuck with me not just in football, but in life. I don't like to do things

5:59 fifty percent, sixty seven to eighty. Whenever I'm included in something, I want I want to go full. I want to learn as much as I can. I want to be The best version I can. In that aspect. Whatever it is. I mean it's it's really interesting because I

6:14 I I wonder to myself how You s I think you start playing football at five years old. Yeah, five. And were you good from Five years old. Were you were you different from your peers at a young age? In such a young age and I never think about being a footballer. I just wanted to play football for life.

6:29 I'm just happy playing football. I just want to have Every time all time. And you joined uh F C Investor? Yeah, that was my first glove. At fuggy is what I mean. I've got some photos of yours. As a young man here.

6:42 You must be roughly around that age then. And remarkably I read that after one training session they moved you Into the older group. And you played with people two years older than you when you were

6:56 Four five years old? Yeah, I was five playing with a seven years old. Why did they move you into a different group? I went for the first session and it was a footsal session. Five aside. Uh but like an indoor thing.

7:08 And uh after that first session they told me that like no, you need to get on the grass. And then I think it comes just uh You know I looked at the other players and at the other other people that were training with me and I didn't want to Be better than them. I just wanted to like

7:23 Getting getting it done was the same as getting it as my brother that was five year years old. For me it was no difference. If I have to beat him up, I will beat him up, you know, like one V one, I'm gonna go past him. I have to tackle I'm gonna tackle him. He's gonna tackle me stronger, it doesn't matter. I tackle him again. And and I was I had no fear. And I think that was the thing that

7:43 Make me become a Better and better because I was never The best. Like technical ability, yes, I was good. Was the best? No. Speed. Was I quick? Yeah, I was quite the quick. Was the the quickest. No, I was the strongest. No. I was the tallest, no, but

7:56 I had no fear of anything of that. I had to speak with someone that was quicker than me, I'm gonna speed with him and I'm gonna yeah, I m I might not beat him, but I'm gonna get close to that. I actually read that you were so aggressive that referees sometimes asked your coach At Infester Sergio to sub you off otherwise They'd have to send you off. Yeah. I mean that kind of correlates with what you were saying there about fear. Yeah. You were aggressive. I wasn't I that's what I mean. Like I had I had no fear, you know, like I I wouldn't

8:24 look at faces or sizes whatsoever and think like oh Uh. bigger than me, you know, like he's gonna it's gonna be stronger than me or so. How getting to Any any any ball in any moment in the in in the game with with no fear at all.

8:38 This is probably the best times in my career between Infesta and Boa Vista, because this one is Infesta, this one is at Boa Vista when I've just I state. Probably a year at Infesta and Wavista got me straight away. And then quickly almost in all the clubs you know, I I'm looking at when you were seventeen years old and you left Portugal and moved to Italy to join Navarro. Yeah. And after three months there you were promoted to the first team. Um

9:12 And But then you very quickly joined. You don't easy? Yes. And at UNESCO you met a guy called Francesco, I can't pronounce his surname, but

9:21 Gudlini? Guidaline, yeah. He was really, really formative in your career, wasn't he? You were what, eighteen eighteen years old? Eighteen years old. Yeah. Why was he such an important part of your career. What did he teach you or give you? Are you Danis?

9:34 He was the manager that probably gave me the Bases and the foundation to be fearless and express myself, you know, like to get my head out of so many things that were going on and as a young kid that has just made in the step into the Serie A. And he's like Oof, I need to

9:52 Now is the moment I need to show myself. But he was like You don't. You you showed me that you have the qualities when you were in second division in Italy. That's why we bought you. And to be honest, I was On the edge of coming to Watford on loan? Watford. Yeah. Because the it's the same owners.

10:09 Mm-hmm. We're getting at the edge of the transfer window. They just bought me and obviously they had a big squad with a lot of players and they were like We're gonna send you to Watford, you're gonna you're gonna be there playing for them, blah blah. And I was like what I ever done, like I wasn't I wasn't good enough. And then in the same moment they call me to go to the auto park my stuff,'cause it was like last days this

10:30 Pack my stuff. I was with the with my girlfriend wife now. And She was like. Yeah. Don't worry, we're gonna we're gonna go anywhere else and you're gonna you're gonna succeed. And I said, but why can't I make it here? Like what what what was that I did wrong that like the manager's like not looking at me the same

10:48 that is looking to other players and in my head was like Have I done something wrong? I've not like showed my full potential, have I not shown that I'm good enough to be in this team. And I don't know why in the middle of all this So the sporting director called me again and says, Bruno, you can't go anymore.

11:05 The manager wants you to stay? He says. He loved you? He loves your attitude. You want you to learn from him. He wants you to understand how he wants to play and everything. He says you might not play much this season, but he's pretty sure that you are you are the type of player that will succeed at this club.

11:21 And then we had many conversations and I think When you want to Managers for young players But very quick we'll play and we'll think like oh

11:31 I'm I'm the guy now. He's gonna And make you understand. Stay calm. I got you.

11:37 But it's still not there. And he was so good for me. It was like a Father figure, you know, like for but not just for me. If you speak with every player that was there at that time. They knew they were important for him. Because he always showed that and that's why we made me

11:50 So much more complete in terms of understanding the moments and the process that managers have to go through. their heads and what they think about players that is better or whatsoever that you don't understand. Whenever a manager puts you on the bench, you just think Doesn't like me. But

12:08 The way he did it with me and all the play that were around me at that time. We were so happy that the environment was very, very good. As a young man when you're This age, you're eighteen years old, what are your dreams? And if I'd ask you at the time What does your future look like? What would you have said to me?

12:24 As soon as I've I became a professional player. I I was like I want to be on on on on the top clubs, I want to play for for the big clubs, I want to be in the Champions League, I want to to play for trophies, I want to become the players I'm looking at. I want I want to become like them. Did you think you could? Yeah.

12:41 Always. I've never and never doubt And at twenty two you get a call, um, and you return to Portugal and sign a five year deal with sporting. In a deal worth Reportedly eight point five million. That next season you scored twenty goals and added thirteen assists. Which was unheard of unheard of for a player in your position. And what I read as well is that

13:01 Cotnum. We're interested in you at that time. Um and it was It was at one point highly likely that you were gonna end up moving to Tottenham. I'm very glad you didn't as a Man United fan, but tell me about that. So Tottenham g call you. Yeah. I spoke with Totnam and uh we were very close to get an agreement done.

13:20 Um then in the last Two days or one day of market, the sporting just said we we're not gonna sell him. We gonna keep him because we need him. And you wanted to go to Tottenham. Yes, because I wanted to play in the Premier League. Why?

13:34 Because for me it's the best league in the world. It's the most competitive one is the one that I think when you grow up you dream to play for in like Full stadiums. Top clubs, top players. Obviously I was I was lucky enough That my dream club to play in England was Man United, then obviously Tot them at the time.

13:54 was the option I had and I was very, very happy to join them because they showed me The process that they were going through the manager that was there at the time that also really wanted me. All the new things, the new facilities and everything, so I was very happy with the With everything that I could see uh going forward. But uh it didn't happen and for bigger reasons, I I guess, and um

14:16 Then in January I got I got the call. That uh I was I was hoping for for uh for two, three years already. Tell me about that call. 'Cause I know Manchester United has has been, you know, in your eye for a long time. I mean you I I know you grew up watching people like Cristiano Ronaldo play for this club and I think when he I think when he first played for Portugal, you were you were a young guy, you were like eight, eight or ten years old or something. And he had been a a great star of Manchester United. But but I think generally people of m our age group, we grow up in the heyday of Manchester United, the Star Alex Ferguson era as well. So why Manchester United? And can you zoom me in, if I'm a fly on the wall when you get that phone call. From your agent, I guess.

14:55 That Manchester United are in ch I can see the smile on your face. I was um let's say I was in my wardrobe. I was getting getting ready to go to bed. We just had to my wife was just putting uh kids uh my daughter at that time, I only had my daughter uh to bed. And I get the call from my agent. Uh I knew things were going on and everything, but After what happened with Tottenham, I didn't want to put my focus on transfer windows. And I I never did it in every step of my career that I've changed club. I always said to my agent.

15:25 Whenever he's like Ninety five percent that the club really wants me and is ready to make an offer. Tell me and then I decide if it's like the right moment and I want to go. A part of that is I'm like just keeping apart. keep me apart. I don't want to know it. I don't want like to lose the focus of what I'm doing to something that I can't control.

15:43 And after the Tottenham thing I was like even more because obviously I was basically done and then all of a sudden last day sporting just says like guys oh They text uh total and say like uh we're not gonna make it. So He called me and he said, Bruno, so you told me to not speak to you until we had something Like Concrete.

16:01 But just so you know. They also have agreement already, everything. So just on your side now. To say. Yes or no. And I was like yes or no to what?

16:10 And he said, Come on, you've seen the news. I said, My judge calls me Gas Miguel. The news are Every day different. Every day they're gonna put a new club that is interested in me, so I'm not I'm not gonna be focused on that. He said, Okay.

16:23 Many night is coming for you. I know I know this is like Why you want So just so you know this is this is the one that you've been waiting for, so It's on you now to make a decision and then uh for like Ten, twenty seconds I didn't I didn't said anything. I I was I was crying, but I didn't want to talk because you know, like your voice starts going a little bit

16:43 Shocky and then all of a sudden my My wife gets into the war and says I'm still on the call and she goes like why are you crying? And like even on the phone say, Are you crying? I was like Miguel just call me and then in the moment I'm trying to explain to my wife what's going on, he's calling me like

17:02 Repetitively like I I need an answer. And I was like and my wife was like, Why are you crying so like this is like But you have dream for, like this this is the moment you've you've waiting for. And I was like, Oh I don't know. It's I think just too much. Like I I've I've never expected after everything that happened with Tottenham

17:20 I would have got the chance to come to the Premier League again and having the chance to come to the Premier League with Men United is it's it's like Hundred percent of the dream complete. So Obviously then like uh I just I just call him back and I say like I I don't even want to know anything else, just tell them I'm going. Obviously I was very good at sporting and I was very happy there because I I really enjoyed my time at sporting because

17:45 Pro the best version of of myself as a player, where I improved so much in that two years and a half, but then was like The dream of Playing for the Premier League and I think From every sporting fund they really understood that

18:01 Was was ready for me to to go and do the next step. And when you join Mm-hmm, the Famous photo. Are you signing with Manchester United? Yeah.

18:13 funny the the smile that you still have on your face when you look at these same yeah it's uh because I think when when you look back, as I said, like This is a The day your dream comes true. So Is uh is probably

18:28 Professional wise I think I put this one and sporting Together. because of the importance that sporting had in my career. But obviously this

18:38 This was the cherry on on top of the cake because this is where I wanted to be. And you joined the club at a time when the club was in a bit of uh turmoil. Struggling. Yeah, Sir Alex Ferguson has left. Um, we've cycled through a bunch of managers and we've got um Oli Gonasol as the manager at that point. I think the club was seventh in the Premier League when you joined. Um

18:59 And it was going through a time of turbulence. You knew that Manchester United wasn't the most stable club in the world. But you chose to come here anyway. And based on your rec record at sporting, you'd have had a lot of other opportunities to join a club that was more stable. That was you know, and it's interesting'cause clubs can have a big impact on a player's Future.

19:18 few players can have a big impact on the club, but it also goes the uh the other way. And as someone that runs businesses, you know the environment you join has a huge impact on everyone's behavior. No no irrespective of how hard you try. You chose to join a club that was at the time unstable. Look the the game I looked before I came here was I think Burley.

19:40 United Burnley. And United loses at home. Two one. I don't remember exactly but I know. I know they've lost that game and it was just like

19:49 Days before I came. And I was like I I still think there is there's a lot of potential in that team. And a part of having potential on that team. I'm joining one of the biggest clubs in the world and

20:03 I know that clubs go through periods where Things don't go the way they want. But Sometimes it's not just because they're not great. It's just because other teams are being better than them. And that's that's fine because in football you're not gonna win all the time. But the thing you can do is like you can bring

20:20 Your own values, your own experience, your own qualities. I'm trying to help everyone else around you to The team you want to see. And I think at that time

20:32 That period of And we had the Covid time and all the stuff, but that period. From there to the end of the season the team was unbelievable. And the season after we got second place And because we struggle in certain moments of keeping keeping up to To the standard of City that

20:47 at a very good end of season, but for me Was like I I wasn't like I'll I'll fix that. I was like I'm gonna be the the magic magic powder that's gonna solve all the problems, but I really knew that this club had something special.

21:03 And for me to join it was was like I can be part of something that gonna become great again and I still believe that. And obviously it can take time. It's taking more time than I thought, yes, of course. But at that time I had too many dreams in my head and uh they still are here.

21:20 And still a lot of things that I want to achieve. But this smile and this guy that came here in twenty twenty is is is still is still is still the same guy that wants to To win and succeed at this club? I'm wondering, you know, because there's been so much said about the environment at Manchester United over the years. I I know a little bit about the environment when Sir Alex Ferguson was here because I interviewed a lot of his players and having been to Carrington before and uh actually going to the grounds and actually sitting in the hospitality lounge and waitresses coming over to me. and talking about when Sir Alex Ferguson was here and how he knew everyone's name. And then how it changed.

21:54 I it was really interesting to me to get a lot of this feedback because It highlighted how Small things in culture. can have a big impact right down to the the way players play. And there's always the story that Gary Neville told me about with Wend and her charity balls. He told me a story of the players walking past Wendy who got the charity ball signed for a local charity. And one day a couple of them didn't sign it. And so Alex Ferguson came downstairs and he quote

22:19 Fucking killed us. And it's it's a strange thing to do, like to care that much about a small detail in culture. But over time, Gary told me he's he understands why Sir Alex Ferguson cared so much. So my question to you is really about the cultural evolution at this club. And what the fans are desperate to know about like how it's changed and how it feels different. From the time you arrived in twenty eighteen up until today.

22:42 I've brought in. My behaviour my the way I've been raised and all these things. And I think Every different player has brought different things to the to the club. But I think

22:53 One of the things that has to be al always there is the respect for people. And I think uh that says for me is a non negotiable thing. Like if any player comes to this club and he doesn't respect the physios, the peop the stewards, the people that are In all the desk we have here, the people that work for us in the restaurant, the chefs and all these people that are Around us.

23:16 Taking care of us even if you don't see it, or if you don't think it, or whatever is For me is a non negotiable thing that the respect has to be always there. And more than respect the care. You need to care about them because If you have a good foundation, a good base of respect and and care in in your club, it's gonna get better.

23:35 The environment gets better, everything is more positive. Because I think and and this is probably the way I've been raised. I treat everyone in the same way. I don't treat the players in a way that I don't treat the Clean lady or the

23:48 people that are in the front desk or the people that the stewards and uh at the entrance, you know. If I say good morning to these ones, I say good morning to these ones. I don't change that. If I give a handshake to these ones, I give a handshake to this one. If I greet them as I'm greeting my teammates they will feel part of it, they will feel involved, they will feel as important as them. Even knowing that. The role of them is completely different of the other ones because The the role of a CO is one thing.

24:13 Mm. But if the cleaner doesn't clean everything nice and leaves everything prepared and well well done and everything. You will notice that something is wrong. You will notice that this is not the place where you want to work for you do you notice that you don't want to be the CO of a company that As trash everywhere. Yeah.

24:29 Yeah so we Why wouldn't you greet the person that takes care of you, takes care of your place to look so good and to make an impact when people come in from the outside? It reminds me of something actually Johnny Ive said. So Johnny Ive is the famous Apple designer that d designed all the Apple products that we know and love. And he said, um, it's very hard to feel care. He goes, but everyone can feel when someone didn't care. You go to a restaurant and they didn't care. Small things.

24:56 in the background this ambient feeling you have when you uh arrive somewhere. But you can't you can't like point out exactly what it is, but you can feel it. That's the thing. I think It's more that you feel it but you don't see it. And I think

25:10 Touching this point I was I was talking about cleaners. My mom was a She was cleaning houses for work. So I never wanted the people that were cleaning the house to treat my mom

25:21 Badly or let's say. Downgrade the work she's doing for them. Because for example now I have a person that works in my house. I don't allow my kids to talk badly to her. I don't allow my kids to say.

25:32 Grab that to put it in place. And I said it to her in the first day she came to work and I said If something is not in the in the right place Obviously I want you to clean. I want you to put things in place. I want all of this But I don't want my kids to tell you

25:46 Oh that uh arrange that or put this in place. No. If they want something. They can ask you. But first of all they need to be respectful. If they can't make it, they have to ask you.

25:57 But in the respect way. But if it's something that they can make You have to make them make it. Not like Oh, you do it. No, just explain them how to do it. Show them the way. So they learn with it. And this probably

26:11 The way I behave with the people that work with me, it comes a lot because of my background of not liking to see my mom Because I was not in the houses obviously. I don't know if they treated well or not. My mom never said to me that any of the people that she worked for were So I really think that That made me understand that because I f I don't want that for my mom.

26:34 I won't make that to other people. I've been a Man United fan since I was a kid. So like my siblings were born in Manchester. I was saying to you before I was born in um in Botswana in Africa, but because I've got too older. brothers who are Man United fans, I very quickly became a Manchester United fan. I remember like three, four years old. And then as soon as I could when I was eighteen, I moved up from the southwest to Manchester at eighteen years old and I lived here and went to my first Manchester United games. I've seen the club go on this incredible journey. um from, you know, Sir Alex Ferguson's era to this sort of period of transition to where we are now. And it's my observation, my honest observation, that after in the post Fergie era,

27:10 the club made some bad decisions as it relates to recruitment and culture. Um people often talk about um Ed Woodwards. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna try and stitch you up in any way, I'll get you to talk about anything particular. I'm just expressing my opinion. They talk about Ed Woodwards uh strategy towards signing players and it being a bit flippant. And then you look at the the sort of group of lads that we had, and just as a United fan watching on the pitch, I felt the culture was a bit confused. Because it didn't seem like it seems now, where it seems like there's this really strong central agreement around the values. It felt a bit

27:43 I don't know, a bit like we're sign players because they were famous or big, but not because they fit. And I feel when I look at the club now I go, Oh, these guys kinda fit. And whoever's doing recruiting is thinking about character. It feels to me

27:59 like there's been this process over the last couple of years of getting rid of the wrong character profile. And I think how Amarim really spoke to this. You really talked about getting rid of the players that didn't have the right character profile. Just to add one more line to this, I've spoken to a lot of players at the club in past and present, and they expressed the same to me as well, that there was an issue with sort of character profile. That has now been Solved for. I think

28:23 The main mistake that the club has done through the years that We've changed Manager to manager. They were very different. And that's already a bad sign.

28:33 Not of recruitment because then you bring in players that fit that manager. But the next one you brought plays a completely different way. Um The Three or four or five that you bought.

28:44 Don't fit this one anymore. And then you have to f buy another four or five. And then The constantly change of strategy in in in the club or in the way we wanted to play or whatsoever was not

28:58 Obviously It becomes that The players don't suit any more the system is not even more the character than it comes up, but it's more the system. Then obviously we we can talk about character that players that were Certain players that were not A perfect fit for the club, but you never know it until you bring it to the club. I think sometimes you can see it. And I think is there players that I think the club

29:18 by the behavior they have on the pitch or the behavior they have on on social media, whatsoever, you can see if they will be a fit for the club or not. And I think The main thing for the club, as you said there. You need to bring good characters. Because that will be more important to build something that good quality is because good quality is they all They will laugh.

29:36 You don't bring a player to Man United that doesn't have qualities. But if you can add the qualities to the character That's a win win. Because The qualities will be moments that the quality won't be

29:47 As good as you want, because players go through periods that sometimes they play very good, sometimes they play very bad. Remains the same. And that's the character you want where they are on a low to be the right character to push himself to be on a high, or at the same time when they are on the low, to be the right character to push the other ones.

30:05 To be at at the top level. And I think that's the main thing that the club has to do in terms of recruitment and everything, is bringing people, first of all, that want to be a Man United to play for Man United. Not to be a Man United just because it's a big club. They want to be here because This is the club they think and they really understand that they want to succeed with this club. They want to bring this club back to

30:27 the days we were used to see men united. I know it's been twelve or thirteen years, I know, but we want that to get as short as possible to become that club that won twenty Premier League titles and is joined the most in the Premier League. So character Because the quality You always gonna get it.

30:46 And you can improve it. This is what I heard from uh Patrice Ever, I remember him telling me that he met Sir Alex Ferguson in a in an airport, I think in France, and Sir Alex Ferguson sat him down and said, Are you willing to die for Manchester United? And he said, Yes. And so he shook his hand, he said, Welcome to Manchester United. And that's a different way of recruiting. He's not testing if he can kick a ball well, he's testing if he's got the heart.

31:07 And that mentality That I think Fergie and previous sort of uh cohorts of Manchester United really, really cared about. I think Sir Alex. Obviously he's done mistakes in recruitment too, because obviously not every player was great, but

31:21 He always brings players. in any time in any moment, they would fit the club. And that's the main thing I think in terms of recruitment, that that this is like something that is not for me to get involved, but I will say it I understand the club as different manager comes in in comes in and different Ways of playing it whatsoever. But the recruitment has to be for many United because The player will get

31:42 Normally a five years contract. And the manager will get too. And you know that if it's not something is not working, the club always gets rid of the manager first, then he gets rid of the player because it's much more difficult. So I think You always have to bring players. That fit the club. And then you bring managers.

31:58 That fit the club? And the players you've got. And I think that says to be the the the the thing that for example, let's talk about Clopping that. Why they were so successful.

32:09 They chose the players. In together with the club that will fit the club. The system and the way they want it to play. And through the years have it had mistakes, of course. Have they bought players that didn't work? Yes.

32:22 I think were more the ones that worked than the ones that didn't. And the ones that didn't work I haven't seen many of them coming out and talking bad about the club or about the manager whatsoever. Yeah. It's difficult to be there and a club by you for fifty, sixty, seventy million and then you don't play when you thought, Oh, oh I'm gonna play because they're paying this amount of money for me, I'm gonna play. Then you get there, you don't play. Of course it's difficult. But what I've seen is that They built in a way that the squad was strong enough. to take care of those players that were not playing and that were struggling.

32:51 One of the things I've noticed as a change, especially this season, is all this social media distraction people posting on their Instagram stories when they don't play their brother's sister posting my brother should be playing, whatever. All of this sort of like social media. Stuff. that some players were doing over the last couple of years seems to have vanished. And this is just an interesting, you know, we talk about small things being interesting signals. So one of the things I've noticed this year.

33:18 There isn't social media Nonsense going on. How like I guess my question is

33:25 Is that something the club has done? Has there been have they sat you down and said stop the social media stuff? Or is it just a consequence of getting the right people together? I think it's they'll be both, but at the same time I think the club has to be the one being strong with the players. when they see something that is not right or they don't like it or it's not good on the players on

33:44 on the attention this club gets. I think t the club needs to talk with them. And with the agents, with the families whatsoever that speaks out and says something because I think it's also on the players to make the families and um

34:00 Everyone that is behind them understand that what they put out or what they say uh can have consequences on our careers. Do you do you talk to the players about this? Uh if I if I see something that I don't like or if I see them posting or replying to some people on social whatsoever, because for example From such a young age. I've said to my parents, I've said to my brother, I've said to my sister, I don't want you

34:21 Talking without my like. Without me knowing it. Not because They don't know how to talk or ever, but They're not aware what can be bad or wrong.

34:30 They might think they were gonna say something that is gonna be good for me. But maybe has repercussions on other people and I don't want them to do that. So My parents never spoke. My brother never spoke. My sister never spoke when I wasn't playing.

34:43 Let people make noise, let people talk. Doesn't matter what they say. I know for my mom, for example, she suffers a lot with this and I say Take it in. Don't care.

34:53 Pray it pray at your saints like you do to me all the time. And and make sure they do the right thing for me,'cause that's that's what matters. And she she kind of like it's Okay with that. Obviously I know that probably when my brother says something or my sister, they want to reply to something, they want to say it's not true. Why why you're talking about this or my my brother, what's over I don't want them to get involved in that because not gonna be good for them.

35:15 Mm. Not gonna be good for me. And it's not gonna be good for my environment, and I don't want that. But I think that is because I was strong with my family in the in the first moment. And I think that's where to have to be. I don't go home. To my family and saying like

35:28 Oh no, this manager this, this manage it that. I might say what I like or I don't like or whatever, but I don't go in the way of like Oh if I had someone that could put something out because I've been doing this, I mean I don't care like Oh Bruno's training so well. Bruno is doing this, Bruno is doing that.

35:46 I know I'm doing it. That's enough for me. Mm. And it's true because you know, you've been through this this process of t transition with Oli, then Carrick, then Rath, then Eric, then Ruben, then Fletcher, then Carrick again.

35:59 And actually one of the remarkable things is I've Never noticed. Your Attitude towards the managers. Be any different.

36:08 I can't tell. I can't tell. As far as I'm aware, you support them all. And that's how it should be. I think if you've got a problem, I think as you know, play you should go tell them.

36:17 But we shouldn't know. And well we don't know. With you I don't know what you think of them. I agree with that. I like every manager that comes in my way because I learn with them. And every manager that comes in It was Their own idea.

36:32 As their own thinking, as their own uh way of playing and they want me to do one thing, the other one another thing, the other one another thing. And for me that's good. Because they believe that I'm capable of doing different things that I was doing before. So What I won't give to the managers

36:48 Is The choice or the option in their head to think I'm not gonna play Bruno. What do you do when you're not happy about something, though? As the captain, do you go have a chat with them?

36:58 No, I do whatever they want me to do. If they think is the best thing for the team, I'm gonna do it. Either I Agree. Or not, believe it more or not, I make myself Available for what they want to do.

37:10 Hundred percent. If then it works or not? That's on them to I'm not gonna go to the manager and ask them to change Formation, the way they play. If they ask me.

37:24 I give my opinion. If they don't ask me, I don't say anything. What have you learned about what a good manager does and how to be a good manager from the six managers You've had to be able to do it. Formi look through my career I've always

37:39 heard that you know, like certain players should be treated in a different way than other players. I don't believe in that. Is that the same as having a business? The right person to do that.

37:53 So I don't think That's You then should change the way you behave with them. You should probably Approach them in different ways.

38:04 I believe in that because I'm not the same as you. Yeah. So do you treat players different on the pitch? Because you're you you know, you shout at lots of your teammates. Are there some that you won't shout at as much? I treat I treat all of them the same. And I think they're kind of getting To know. Exactly why I do it. Everything that we train in the imagine let's see.

38:23 During the week we train this. And we have seen images of this, we know what we have to do. The managers prepared for us for that. I demand that. At least.

38:33 I don't I don't care who you are. We've been a full week preparing the training the game for this. This we need to know how to do it. Then if you can make a pass Or you can make a goal, or you can make a tackle.

38:44 That's different. That's it. the qualities I need from each one individually. I've learned to talk with them in different ways. But

38:55 with the same end result. Not like I won't like go to One and say like being scared of saying things to him and the other one like because he's younger whatsoever, I'm gonna like shout at him whatsoever. No, if I have to shout at this one, I'll shout this one. If I have to shout at this one, I'll shout at this one. If I have to praise this one, I'll praise this one the same way I praise this one. And I think that you can see in my interviews. I'm not afraid of saying what I feel.

39:19 At the same time I'm not afraid of praising players for what they've done or what they're doing. Even if they Probably in the moment they did They haven't done as much as they needed to get the praise. But for me

39:32 I think he needs that phase to get into the next level. So I'm gonna give him something, but I make him aware. I've give you something. But I'm expecting something ma more from you.

39:43 My dad giving me like you need to be better, you need to do more. because he knows I'm capable of more. And this is why I demand from the players. I demand I'm I'm I'm very strong on them because I I really believe in them. I have said this so many times to so many different players, it's like Trust me, the day I stop talking to you, the day I start shouting I stop shouting at you.

40:05 is because I don't believe in you anymore. And I don't believe you can improve anymore. Your time at Manchester United's been a bit of a roller coaster like this. Kind of like up and down and up and down. You went second and then you drop down the league in second. And uh I mean, the last two years have been a prime example of that, finishing near the near the bottom end of the table, and then this year back up to third. I'm wondering, as a fan. When things get bad And you hear all these sort of rumours breaking online that the manager's gonna be sacked. Does that Impact.

40:31 The dressing room. Like do you guys in the dressing room Because you've been through it so many times where a manager has been removed, do how what's that like? When you know things are going bad. No, first of all you feel it for the manager.

40:44 Is the is the first thing because I think obviously Certain players will feel it more than others. Because is there players that play more than others? And they obviously the ones that probably don't play They

40:55 don't like to see managers going, but at the same time, if a new manager comes in is a new opportunity for them to probably get into the team more times they were getting before. And I think going through the process of changing manager is probably the worst thing in sp in in in sports. Because It's starting from zero again. And either either people believe it or not. When you're through a process. You want to get to the end of the process and understanding what's

41:18 What that test gave to you as a player. And what you can do more. with that staff, with that team, uh and with that manager. To go even further more. Why didn't you lose hope? Because you went through that.

41:31 Process of starting from zero, making progress, manager goes back to zero. Making progress, manager goes back to zero. I I've spoken this with Diogo before. Every time we come for pre season. Is like And you start.

41:47 And you always get that belief of like this is gonna be the This is gonna be the time. This is gonna be the time. These moments through the season that you this you you get this belief that things are not going well. But the main thing I have is belief in myself.

42:00 So I always Think If I do things right. And I take people to do things right and I help them to Do things right as a team.

42:09 We still have a chance of Pushing ourselves into positions we want to be. And this Let's say this season has been that case, because We strugg we struggle. Obviously we didn't change manager because of results because we were

42:22 Two points behind second place. And like Five points behind five first place war. same points till I think from third to seventh place was everyone with the same points, something like that. So we were we were there. was something different with the s with the club that they felt that the the trust between them was was broke or whatsoever and they

42:44 Kind of. Decided to Start a new process. And that was bad. Because for us when Ruben came

42:52 What was passed from the club is like this is gonna be a process. But we're gonna go through this, gonna be good and bad times. But we're gonna go through this. Obviously then the club decided that it was time to part ways and you started from zero for from with Michael. But then

43:08 You've got results. And you went to the end of the season and you finished third. And you finish what you're doing. Doing probably in the time Michael was here till the end of the season till till now is we're probably the team that has made more points. What did Michael change?

43:22 I think in in the first moment what what what Michael tried to do is like to give st stability to the team because As everyone is understands when you come in after A break. You understand that. You need to give stability and

43:36 Peace to Get back to the level. If all we could have And he bought The foundation and the base that has been in this club.

43:46 Um From the time he played. And then he left? So he knows he knows the club.

43:54 He knows how the club wants to play. And he knows what the fans want to see. How is he different? Like what's what tactically or from a Character perspective. Wh what does Michael bring as a manager? I know as you know just an hour ago or so it was announced that he's gonna be the Manchester United manager going forward, um, which is great news.

44:12 Um but what is if you had to describe him to me as a leader and a manager, what how is he different? I think he's a very calmness, you know, in terms of uh

44:24 Why he wants from the team, the way he demands, the way he coaches Um It gives you it gives you a good way of going to the game with with a good peace of mind. But with a lot of responsibility. Because I think

44:36 From the time he was here with Sir Alex he gave a lot of responsibility to the players to make decisions and to make choices on the pitch. That have to be on you. He gives you the base, he gives you the foundation. He gives you certain rules.

44:49 That is like the non negotiable ones. But then he also knows and he wants us to take some responsibility to the game. that things might change because you prepare a game full week, obviously. But then the team could come and Uh

45:01 Do a different thing. Like you prepare to play against four three three because they always played four three three and then they come and they play three five two. And then you go like oh. And now. The manager can't be on the sideline telling you where to press, where to go. So Has a pl as a players.

45:15 have the foundation, have the base, have the rules non-negotiables, and from there on We need to find a way of like Okay. Let's imagine we compress. Because they've changed everything and the press we prepared was not was not the one we needed.

45:28 Let's get compact. Let's get together. They don't get into our block. When we have the ball, we play with the ball. We get into the off time and then the manager will give us the message that he wants to give or whatever he has seen that we need to do differently in a way of getting a better result from the from the pressure. And I think that's what he gave to us the Calmness. And the way he prepares games was very good, but when things were not going in the way we wanted He gave responsibility to the players to like

45:53 Make it work. Then we solve it. Ah, so like a bit of freedom to It's not exactly freedom because Freedom is a different thing. It gives you freedom with the ball to make decisions.

46:05 Because he says. That's your responsibility on the ball. I can't tell you where to pass the ball. I can't tell you where to shoot. I can help you where the space is gonna be. And I think that the most important thing for a player is knowing where space is gonna be. You need to know where spaces are. To then play with it. You know that they have big gaps there, that we can hurt them from there. And this is the message that Michael has passed to the team. It's like

46:27 If we talk from here, they have less people on this side. We can bring more people in the box from this side. We want a very good counterpress because they have Two strikers, so we need to have three people in in the back. Two of them mark, one of them stays behind. So this is the small things and the foundation that he gives to us, but then he's he he says many times I can't tell you where to pass, I can't tell you where to shoot. I give you the solutions.

46:49 But might not be there. So you have to find a way of making the good pass, the good shot, the good decision. Cause I'm not gonna be in your head. In that moment. Might in their head it's gonna be the ideas I gave you. And some of them will be good, some of them won't won't work out. So you have to make a way of like Understand the good ones I gave you and the other ones that are not working well.

47:10 You need to find a way of make it work. So it's more just he gives you the principles. Uh instead of Specific. uh instructions on how to play and what to do.

47:19 Mm. Kind of gives you, but then it lets you balance to the game. Let's say He lets the players read the game. Because

47:30 In ninety minutes many things happen. And Not gonna always happen what you see in the video. Hopefully we yes, but not always. For example,

47:38 Let's say We had the chance against um Nottingham Forest, that I passed the ball to Brian and he scores. We have sін the same chance. From Villa against Forest.

47:50 The exact same shots, exact same movements, exact same passes. And we've seen that, we've visualized that. And that's why that works. Because We had the ideas. We knew we could make that happen.

48:01 And we made it. Yeah. Does he get angry? 'Cause he seems like such a calm guy. When you see him in press conferences, he's very calm and very you know Yeah, he did he did he did cut hungry one once or twice, but he's very calm in the way he speaks. But I think

48:16 I think everyone gets hungry anyway. But um is a very calm presence and is is is someone that speaks very well. No the timing, the words, uh he knows what to say. Um

48:27 And Whenever he got when he let's get let's say more aggressive within us was was the time that we needed to to get that from him. And the way that you play is interesting because it uh when I was looking at um a bunch of your quotes over time, but also how I think about business, you are a player that takes more risks than most people. And we talk a lot about failure in business and how you have to increase your rate of failure to to to get better outcomes. But you're a player that is

48:53 Not shy of taking a risk. And you play in a way where you you sometimes lose the ball. But you also, as we've seen this year and in many other years You often are generating more opportunities than any other player on the pitch. How do you think about this? Because The way you play means that sometimes you're gonna make a lot of mistakes.

49:09 You're gonna lose the ball, more so than other players. I'd argue even more so than some of the previous midfielders we've had like Carrick who would often choose a more safe option than trying to play it through a thin gap. What's your attitude towards risk?

49:22 I think it's always risk reward, you know, you n you need to understand how much reward you're gonna get from that. Um and if Taking that risk is good for the team or not. Let's say the position I play You need that.

49:36 Is has to be one of your main skills to take risks, to do things Pet. The game demands from you. Teammates in the front get the ball in the positions.

49:49 That's gonna be The rate of success for them to score goal is gonna be higher. I might miss Two or three times. But if I get one right.

49:59 That Can become a goal for us. I think there's nothing better than a risk reward. That is a goal. So

50:07 I think When you play as a number ten position, obviously you don't want to lose the ball. You just you have to Make that As less as possible.

50:16 But In certain positions you lose the ball more often than others. Wingers will lose the more the ball on one V ones. Than midfielders do. Fullbacks will do normally more crosses.

50:27 Then Santa Box will do. Number sixes will make more tackles than A striker will do. So

50:34 Is a balance in the team that you need to have. Let's imagine I played with Kobe and Cassettes. They're not a risk player. So

50:43 If I take four times Let's say uh risky pass. And they take one each. That's six times a game.

50:51 So I need to be the one that takes four. They need to be the ones that take one one each. Because The responsibility they have in the team Is the one that they make the team play.

51:02 from the build up, push the team forward to then get the ball into the players that have to take the risks. Because If you don't have the players that take the risks You're gonna end up Bubbling. And we talk like for example, let's say Mine City.

51:18 There is a theme that's that let's say Guardiola, Tikitaka, all these things. The Brun was the player that takes the risks. Mm. Cherky is not the player that takes the risks. Feel full then. Doku.

51:29 Maris. Will be the ones that taking the risks on a one V one. Has the manager ever told you to take less risks? Eric. Told me to take less shots. From the outside of the box.

51:41 Ішов ми а борт від майк. Shots on target, shots of target and goals. Uh show me the positions where I was more effective. And he told me I think you need to get more into these positions to then make a shot. Into what positions?

51:56 Let's say. Close to the box, like in in the position we all see the box. And you would say like more throws left hand side, you score more goals. More throws the right hand side. Your

52:08 You aim more to gold. Towards the middle of the of of the of the edge of the box. So it was like Get more into the left side or get more into the right side. Or Close range, long range.

52:21 So But then obviously. Is a is is we come back to the risk and reward.'Cause sometimes obviously you're gonna score a great goal from twenty five yards out. Mm-hmm. But how many times you're gonna do it.

52:33 Out of five, you maybe score one? And it's a lot already. I need to make that Risk. Become less and less and less.

52:42 Getting more risk probably from eighteen yards. Because they're too possibility of me scoring a goal. He might be Three and five?

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53:29 the skills that they have and much more. You're no longer hoping your ad reaches the right person. Instead you're defining exactly who sees it. And LinkedIn Ads drives the highest B2B return on ad spend across all major ad networks. Give them a try at LinkedIn.com slash diary. And if you spend two hundred and fifty dollars on your first campaign, you'll get a two hundred and fifty dollar credit for your next one just by going to LinkedIn dot com slash diary. Keep this to yourself. Terms and conditions apply. Of all the things I thought would ever turn up on my desk, a red light toothbrush was not one of them. Here we are. This is made by our sponsor, Bon Charge, and you'll probably know of their red light face mask and their infrared sauna blanket, because I use them religiously and I've spoken about them on this podcast before. But Their toothbrush is new to me. I was sent one of these a few weeks ago, and ever since then I've been using it religiously because I love their products. And this is the first toothbrush that combines both red light and near infrared light with sonic cleaning app.

54:29 the same time. The same red light technology that's used for skin and inflammation is now built into a device you already know so well. And I'm using it at least two times a day at the moment to clean my teeth. It's great for your gums, for stimulating gum circulation and for soreness, and the best part is it's not an extra thing to add to your routine. It just replaces your current toothbrush. If you give it a try you'll get twenty percent off at Boncharge.com slash DOAC and also you'll get free shipping and a one year warranty. That's Boncharge.com slash D Oac. You've had lots of managers, so they've all asked you of different to be, you know, play in different positions. Yeah. On

55:11 On this pitch here. Where is it that you you like to play the most? I think Yeah.

55:18 The positions where I can be more Effective is This square, let's say. Yeah. I would say let's let's put it like this.

55:27 Yeah. Oh you just need a square. Let's say Imagine we attacking this type. This This is the spaces where I think I can be more effective.

55:38 In this square year. And different managers asked you to play. In different positions within here. Because for example, Uh let's say

55:46 But yeah. With Ruben he used to play. Tree at the back. One wing back, two midfielders. Uh not having back.

55:57 And it's trying. Two times. With Ruben I played a lot of times. Here. In this position when he first came.

56:07 And you wanted me to And and in this position, these two. More more More than often you wanted me to be one of these two. To help you.

56:16 To help these two midfielders to build up. And to get D sky higher. The position when he can be in the last line. And to get the ball into this two.

56:26 So what position would you call that? Like left. If this was the left then, let's say, but he wanted me to play more like As a left midfielder. Okay. To help them to like first of all to have more stability in the middle. Second to get the ball

56:40 Going forward. Yeah. to take the risk of passing the ball forward. Then I played a lot of times here. What we're gonna do is we're gonna make you Unfortunately we're gonna make you blue just so we can see which one you are. Okay. Okay. So

56:51 In this one, when I played here, many times he wanted me here. Because they were pressing let's say three against three? And he wanted me to come and do the overload. So We have One more player to build up.

57:02 So they will open up these ones a little bit more. get this one more expensive. Normally it was Luke Shaw and as a full back he was used to play in this space. And so then we could drive the ball and they couldn't press with the three they had. they won't be able to press because we always had this one also to bounce the ball. Then

57:19 Whenever we Go up the pitch with the ball. You want me here? Ruben did. Yeah. You want me to play more

57:27 A little bit more higher. to be one of the three tenths and make this line of three tens. Then for example with uh Ole. I was playing You would

57:36 Play like four two. Three one. And I will be the number ten and you wanted me to do this. Uh I can't go across. And sometimes you want me to do this.

57:48 And get the ball here. Or here. to make the long passes and to make the switches to the to the wingers. I think This bit here in the middle.

57:58 Is when I'm more Can I I think we all can see Um

58:03 Best version of Bruno. If you ask me where I prefer to play. Anywhere on the pitch. I think For the way we play?

58:12 This is the position I I can be more Effective. But I think I Really enjoy to play here.

58:19 Because I really enjoy too Get the team to play. I played many times with uh Ten od like these. Mm. I was the number six playing with two eights.

58:30 And I really enjoy it to play here. And he make make myself being different a different player more aggressive off the ball, someone that has to cover spaces for these ones. Regardless of where you are on the pitch. W which can change. What

58:44 is non negotiable. In terms of how you play. Commitment. That's that's non negotiable. Like the commitment I have For what we have to do.

58:54 It doesn't change by Me liking the position or not, me preferring one position or the other. Um That that won't change. Um

59:05 I think Running. Fighting. And Tim Spirit can never miss. And also one remarkable thing about you is you don't seem to ever get injured. I get tired. And I've been oh

59:20 But how how does that happen? Because I I watch you run it'd be the eighty ninth minute and you're running up and down still. Is that genetic or is that something you do in training? What is that? I think obviously I've I have to say that I have good genetics, but Um Is

59:34 I I was talking with Dio about this the other day also in and the nutritionist about like genetics. How how are you How you treat yourself and everything. Uh but then then at the same time I said to them, You know what's different on me than the other ones? 'Cause I always train a hundred percent. I make the training as a game, I don't care.

59:51 I go full. And if I I I don't feel good, I I I need to make some extras. If I feel that the training wasn't like enough Let's do something else. Let's do some shots. Let's do some crosses to someone. Let's do something that can make me go out of training and feeling like I'm tired. Why is that important? Because I think in the game you need to get tired. And then

1:00:10 You know, like for example when you are when I'm training shooting practice or last third passes. I rather train that when I'm tired. Because it's gonna be The last twenty minutes of the game. Your brain is not gonna work the same way it was working in the beginning.

1:00:25 because you get tired and you get to think slower a little bit. So You need to be able to train your body And your brain when they are tired. And I think if you do that in training When you get to the game and you start getting tired.

1:00:38 Your brain is used to that also. Your body is used to be tired and it knows how to react into into that moment. These core principles that have been central to how you play, have led you to Being given this. The captain's armband, which was quite there's lots of talk of it at the time because Maguire was the captain before you. And it's quite tipi atypical for the captain to be displaced while they're still at the club and for someone else to be brought in. And as fans from the outside, we wonder

1:01:05 how Maguire takes that, how Harry reacts to that, but also what that means to you to become captain of uh Your dream club. No, obviously for me was Was this strange time because I wasn't not expecting, you know, uh Tennar called me to his uh office.

1:01:21 Yeah. And to ask me if I wanted to be the captain? of the club because he had decided to change the captain and he wanted me to be to be the one to lead the team from now on. Uh obviously First thought was like

1:01:37 Very grateful. Um Like Something that I've never dreamed about, you know, like you You can have many dreams, but you don't dream about being the captain, you know, like of your club.

1:01:46 And I think The second thought was like This is gonna be tough on Harry. And the first person that I spoke with after I got out of that was Harry. Because he knew already. I think the manager spoke to him and before I said yes, I want to speak with him.

1:02:02 Uh The manager basically made me the question if I wanted also that. He didn't said like you're gonna be the captain, that's it point. He asked me. And I went to speak with Ari and the first question I made was uh if he was leaving the club. Because obviously, as you said, it's not Something.

1:02:18 normal. I've never been through this in in my whole career. And I spoke with him about that the offer that they gave it to me and to be honest to him And he said he said like if is there someone that that deserves that is you and I'm I'm very happy that he's Is you Getting the Captain Armand that uh if if if I have to

1:02:39 Take it off of myself. I think you really deserve that. And I think that was The point that made me understand I was doing things right, you know. Uh obviously I know for him was very difficult and I don't think he would have said something bad even if he felt it

1:02:55 Uh to me but the way we spoke and the way I think I've been treating him through these years also in the same way Of like I said straight away to him, like Yeah. you might have lost the Armand but you're still one of our leaders and uh that won't change everything that

1:03:10 We've been through because Ari when he was the captain, we always make decisions together also, because I was one of them. And that doesn't change now because every time I have to do or take some decisions for the team, I speak with certain players and Harry is one of them that is always there. And your performance this season speaks for itself. Uh you've won You've d well, you've done thirty four appearances, which I think is an achievement in and of itself,'cause a lot of players aren't that consistent on the pitch. Um, you've scored eight goals, twenty assists, you've got twelve player of the match awards, which is the most by any player in the Premier League. six player of the month awards and only Sergio, Agrero, Harry Kane and Mohammed Salah have more, all of them have seven.

1:03:49 And you've also won some Matt Busby's Player of the Year award for the fifth time. the most by any other Man United player. And this that's an award voted by the fans. And there's other awards that I know you've won uh in recent times. I saw you on stage the other day winning more awards. What has What's happened? Wha why why are you sudden you know, you've had you've been consistent throughout the whole time since you've been at the club, but this year seems to stand out. For some reason.

1:04:12 No, I think. I think for this season, first of all, I think when the team shines the individual comes up. And I think this season is being much better from the last Let's say two seasons. At the same time, uh I think the assists record and all this going around made made me having a lot of headlines and and and and stuff like that obviously is a is an achievement that hasn't been done

1:04:36 For Any players just Kevin De Bruyne and Thierry. So I've got the little graph here. It says yeah, Kevin De Bruyne and Thierry. I actually spoke to to Thierry about this as well, and he sends his regards to you. Congratulates you on um Joining him up there. Um with with the record.

1:04:53 Yeah, it's uh it's something like and that I'm very grateful for, you know, like we I put him I put my name in this in this case with them. Up there is something something that Never dreamed about or think about. I like uh I probably start thinking about that when I got probably into sixteen, seventeen assist. I was like, Oh Oh.

1:05:11 I'm actually getting closer now. Uh but it was not something that was in my head because In my head is always improving my last season. And getting Better numbers, better outputs, better performance.

1:05:23 And was never in my mind that I would go to eighteen, nineteen, twenty or whatsoever. Uh but obviously when you start getting close, you start thinking about a little bit. And then all of us as fans start watching the games to see if you can do it and then and then obviously I think Um, I've been very consistent in terms of performance during my

1:05:42 Six years here. But Um probably other years were people that stand out that uh more than me and uh that's why I probably didn't got as much attention as I did this season. With being captain and with being at the biggest club in the world. I think in terms of fan base. Um, with that comes pressure.

1:06:00 And responsibility. The world talks about you. You know, no matter what industry you're in, an occupational hazard of b of being at the very, very top or the peak of your powers, or being even better is more and more talk. And you know, I think especially because of this. People are talking even more about Bruno Fernandez than I've ever seen.

1:06:18 You know, in my group chat, I've got a Man United group chat and we're watching the game, we're watching we're willing you to We were willing you to reach this record, which you did. And now because you're you know, people are saying you're the you're the player of the year in the Premier League, they're they're giving you all these big awards. With that comes even more criticism and I think this is where your childhood has prepared you. Yeah. Your dad. Sounds like your dad prepared you. I I wanted to I wanted to clear something up because it was on my mind. Um and I imagine it's frustrating for you, which is when your words are twisted in the media. And recently Roy Keane criticized your mentality based on a quote he got completely backwards.

1:06:52 He claimed you said, I should have shot, but I made the passes and used that to suggest that you were chasing individual assist stats. But everyone who actually listened to the interview, including myself, knows you said almost the exact opposite. You were being self critical of yourself and saying you should have passed the ball instead of shot because you wanted the best for your team. And so Interestingly,'cause I've spoken to so many of your f your players, your you know, your teammates over the last couple of days about you. They also told me that this is ex the exact opposite of your mentality on the pitch and off the pitch. And I know it must be frustrating for you your leadership style to be m sort of misrepresented in that way. Um how how how do you respond to that? Like how do you deal with that when you hear it and you go, That's not what I said? Yeah, to be honest, like I've always said I

1:07:35 don't mind criticism. I've always taken criticism from everyone and anyone and I never replied to anything or whatsoever. People have an opinion, they think it's good, bad, whatever. What I don't like was when People lie about things. And this case that you said about Roykin Basically, because you can Either either you saw some other interview or

1:07:57 He can't say that I said one thing that I've just not said. And luckily for me, is everything on record. Imagine if he wasn't, like then people will think like, Oh yeah, Bruno is is the guy always trying to go to assist. But one thing that is consistent is my number of creation. So it's not to have been trying to reach this now. No, I've been creating chances since I came to the Premier League. Probably more than anyone else. So he hasn't changed that. My

1:08:21 type of play or hame of play or way of playing hasn't changed since I think came to the Premier League. It's not that This season probably Roy King saw someone like Bruno creating more because he wanted the assist record. No, you're seeing the same Bruno that It's about risky reward, it's about creating chances for his teammates, is about getting the best out of the other ones. Because The thing is like you will get criticized anyway. If you say if you're scoring goals, you'll get criticized because you're not passing the ball in your shooting. If you're if you if you're doing assists is because you're passing too much and you're not shooting to score goals. So

1:08:53 It's gonna always be like that. People will always make the the the balance the way they want. They won't balance things. They will And obviously I think I've always showed a lot of respect for uh for Raquin and for everything he's done for the club and for everything he's he's is um he's always said I've never ever had something to say, I've never said something wrong. I even asked Ole his number to text him, to be honest. That I don't mind the criticism. I don't like when people lie about things that I say.

1:09:25 Mm-hmm. Because this is like goes a little bit over the top of the things that I think uh are acceptable. I accept the criticism. I accept that he can say things that I don't like and I don't like to see it. But As I said before, that improves me. Uh what I don't like is that people make their own words on what I said and it's not true.

1:09:45 He came criticism criticising me, killing me, say that I'm not good enough, that I'm not a good captain for him, that I'm not a good player for the club. whatsoever. It's bad. It's it's okay. I don't mind. Is it op is the opinion? I like it. No. Obviously I prefer Roy Kim to give me some praise sometimes because I've achieved something that not many players have achieved. I understand that this club is about winning trophies. I've never taken that off my mind. I've always said in front of everyone that I want to in the Premier League and the Champions League. I never said I wanted to be the best prem player in the Premier League. Never never one time any pl any person has uh heard that Bruno wanted to uh get the assist record or get the goals record or get the player of the season or get the

1:10:25 um being better than anyone else. No Bruno wants the club to be successful, Bruno wants the club to win trophies and that's all Bruno wants. I accept his criticism. I accept that he he might like me like me as a player or not, likes me as a person or not, but what I don't like is that he puts words in my mouth that has not been said. That's the only thing I don't like. Well I am I I did actually ask your Your teammates.

1:10:49 What you were like. And uh I asked them on and off camera, on and off the record. I couldn't get some of them to be very serious, but um What I what I received is lots and lots of voice notes from lots and lots of your your former players. I text around uh last night And I'll play you

1:11:07 What they said. My friend Bruno. Taking this opportunity. To spread some love. To you.

1:11:15 I just wanted to take this opportunity to tell you How much we value You as a player and as a person. I think not many people get to see how are you? After

1:11:26 The games and Uh outside of the pitch. So I would say that's one of your best qualities, the way you care, the way you One of the first to help everyone. The leadership.

1:11:37 Your consistency That's something that I take from from example and you know it. It's been uh a lot of years together right now. So hopefully this This can continue and we can

1:11:49 Win so many things. And so much. Much more things together. So

1:11:56 For me, you're a world class footballer. Consistently world class as well. Uh Which is which is very difficult. I think everyone knows that how good you are. But I think more importantly from

1:12:08 from my view is uh how you are as a human being and that's the side that Not many people get to see. You know, they carry in. Compassionate, supporting, demanding at the right times. But yeah, I think for me that that is by far and away probably your best quality. That's why you're the the leader of this team.

1:12:24 and and such a good human being. So for me proud to call you the captain, but more importantly a friend, so Tot class. I mean what he does on the pitch obviously speaks for itself, but I mean, away from football, he's he's an unbelievable human being. The way he treats people.

1:12:41 Looks after people. The way he lifts others when they need it. And I feel like the respect he gives everyone Everything about his his character.

1:12:53 And I feel like I've been lucky to spend a number of years with him and He's one of them people that you You kind of appreciate having Around you every single day.

1:13:04 He's the type of player who makes people around him better without even trying. We love you, Capitano. We love you, Capitana. I mean I had so many more, but we just don't have the time. Yeah, no, it's just uh you know

1:13:20 The standout from that for me is just uh The way they speak uh From me. As a person, not more as a player, you know, like uh And you you picked some people that I'm very demanding on them, you know, like um

1:13:36 Diogo and Luke as has been uh probably the the place that spent more time with me. Tom is probably up there with Harry, Harry, Luke, Diogo, and then Tom. And he's uh is people that I really respect a lot. But as as I said to you, like he's not What they say about me as a player is more what they say uh from me as as as a person

1:13:56 That uh that makes me very proud and very happy because uh You you can be a good player and uh I'm gonna meet a lot of good players in the in the world of football and it you can train with a lot of them and and we meet them a lot. But uh I think that uh w what it stays at the end is like uh the way you behave as a person and I like to see that I have the good values that my parents showed me. That's what I said at the start, when you started describing what your parents had instilled in you back in Porto.

1:14:24 It sounded like what all your colleagues and your the players you play with said to me as well, because I've done this before, and people will say, Oh, he's a great player, he's amazing, whatever, but what was Consistently true through all of those messages, and there's so many more, is they all chose to speak about you as a human. Yeah. And that's clear that clearly comes from What whatever your parents did at a young age.

1:14:45 Why does that mean so much to you? I can see it in your face. No, because As I said to you, uh I think as a player you can be as good as you want. Like uh at the end of the day I think the way you behave and the way you treat people around you is the most important thing. Because you spend so much time with them that uh They kind of

1:15:06 become part of your day by day. You know, like you s you see more that often than than than I see my parents, for example. I I obviously my wife and my kids is the people that I see the most, but then after that is them I don't see my friends from Portugal as often as them, my parents, my brother, my sister. I I see more them and And the way I behave, the way I've been raised the way I want to live my life and the way I want uh my kids to be. If

1:15:32 is the way they've uh they've said the things about me and this makes me very proud. What what is that mission? I don't know, it's just like uh it's good to hear that, just just that. It's so interesting because it's a I don't think any of the

1:15:51 Anybody else that I've met. Would respond how you're responding to hearing people talk about you as a man? And as a human. Yeah.

1:15:59 I know. I'm just a a soft guy. Doesn't look on a pitch, but I'm quite quite the soft guy. One thing I've learned from interviewing a lot of founders and building companies myself is that trust is the real currency of business. It's the thing that gets customers to buy, partners to say yes, and investors to back you. But as you grow, trust stops being just a feeling and becomes something you have to prove. Because the bigger you get, the more exposed you are. Customer data, security expectations, regulations, all of it. And the risk

1:16:28 of one small mistake becomes incredibly significant. And if you've ever tried to scale while keeping on top of all of that, you'll know it can become a full-time job. But our sponsor Vanta automates your compliance processes and brings compliance, risk, and customer trust Together through their AI powered platform. And the companies already using Vanta say they spend 82% less time on audits because of Vanta's platform. So if your organization wants to inject time back into building and growing, make sure you head over to vanta.com slash diary. That's Vanta. Dot com slash diary I've done almost 700 interviews with some of the most interesting people in the world. And one of the things you learn, which is unexpected, is that vulnerability is the doorway to connection. And after sitting here for two, three hours with a guest, I feel a deep sense of connection to them. And as they leave, what I get them to do. Is to write a question in the diary of a CEO. We've taken all of the questions from the diary of a CEO. We have

1:17:26 Put the question. Here on this card with the name of the person that wrote it. So you can sit at home as I do with my fiance. And my colleagues at work and other people in my life. Well, we get a minute. We play the Directo conversation cards, and it is incredible.

1:17:42 What happens? These are great if you're in a romantic relationship and you want to connect your partner more. These are also great if you're in a team and you want to bond your team together. And I have to say they're also great for families that want to learn more about each other and that need a good excuse to spend some time in a digital world. in the analogue environment connecting human to human. It is remarkable. What the right question at the right time can do. Go to the diary. Dot. Um

1:18:08 And you can get these conversation cards. Right now. One of the things I learnt through my investigations is that you have a a clause in your contract and you don't have to ex uh confirm or deny this and not going to ask you to. But what I what I discovered is that you have a clause in your contract which allows you to leave for I I was I found out sixty million.

1:18:28 And you chose not to leave. Manchester United. you got a very, very, very large Financial offer. I mean I've seen some of the numbers that are reported, up to two hundred million to leave Manchester United, and you chose not to leave. You could have rode off into the sun, sir.

1:18:44 You frankly, I think the way you were playing, you could have gone to almost any club in the world you could have got paid more and probably would have had a a a a more certain guarantee of winning silverware. And for some reason you chose to stay. When that offer came in. reportedly from the Middle East, that you know, the big offer that we're hearing.

1:19:02 for a contract that was worth reportedly two hundred million Why didn't you go? Uh I s I said it before. I I haven't fulfilled my dreams yet, you know, at this club. Was that a conversation you had with your wife? Yeah, also.

1:19:21 What was that conversation? She seems to be there all the time when you make these big decisions. Of course. She's the one uh Probably

1:19:30 I never make a decision by myself. Because obviously moving around nowadays. With two kids as a lot to say, obviously. Um And uh

1:19:42 More than uh I don't know, become uh most richest person in my own town. I want to Live my dreams and pass through the values to my kids that they they need to have And My family is always gonna be the number one priority in everything I do.

1:20:03 Um Because They followed my dream. Uh. Fuck.

1:20:10 The um They my wife Obviously. I know On the other side it looks great life.

1:20:18 Obviously a lot of money, good A lot of good things, but She chose to live my dream with me. And that's There's a lot.

1:20:27 About her, because Let's say that uh When she I was Seventeen years old.

1:20:37 Going to a club. We've Uh One point like Uh

1:20:45 Oh you say fifteen hundred, you say? One thousand five hundred. Yes. Yeah. A month. Uh in Italy.

1:20:52 Yeah. A lot of um Uncertainty, let's say. She had uh Our own life. She had uh

1:21:01 Uh owner. Dreams. And uh obviously She she said like Um

1:21:11 I'm gonna help you. And uh that's what she did. Science uh since they won until now. So She always has a say on

1:21:21 Everything I do. And you've been with her since she was sixteen. You see. Sixty. She was sixty now, I was about to be seventeen, so

1:21:30 More or less that. And uh And then after that we have We have constructed a beautiful family. Two beautiful kids. Yeah.

1:21:41 And so on that day when you get you get a big offer to leave Manchester United, she's the first person you speak to. Of course. As always. I spoke obviously first My agent'cause he speaks with me about the offer, but then the first thing I did was Caller.

1:21:54 And I was in uh I think it was Hong Kong that we were. Uh Like we went on a postseason tour. And uh timing was not the best to talk with her because of the time difference and everything.

1:22:09 But she was there again. And uh But uh The word she said was like Have you

1:22:18 Have you achieved everything you wanted to achieve in your career? Like Because obviously. This is the league I want to be, this is the best league in the world, this is where I'm gonna Enjoy my football as I'm not gonna enjoy it in uh any other place. So We

1:22:38 We still have uh James Phil Phil. Why does that make you emotional? I don't know. Talking about family It's uh it's tough.

1:22:49 Just because Um In the in the football career you go through A lot.

1:22:57 Ups and downs. And a lot of uh difficult moments. And uh Let's say the ones that suffered most because They see your

1:23:08 Good moments, your bad moments, your good things, your bad things. Your good side, your bad side also. But uh they always stand by you, so That's the most important thing you can have in life. She's always been there.

1:23:27 She Portuguese. Portuguese council, yeah. Yeah. Very Danceworth, I hear. Yeah, she's She's the one that pushed me down to Earth also when um Probably getting too much or feeling too big.

1:23:41 She's always Also very very tough on me to Make me understand that All these things to improve.

1:23:52 She's the second version of my dad. Probably. That's why I chose her and she chose me in a certain way. Does she know this? Does she know?

1:24:07 Have you been able to tell her? Yeah. Yeah. I'm uh She's not. She's gonna um

1:24:15 I can't say the word she's gonna say after she sees this and she's me crying. She's gonna say I'm very soft. I won't say the word exactly, but let's say I'm the affection one. You know the one that likes Uggs, that likes uh She's she's more

1:24:31 I don't know if she's She likes she's She I think she She's Through her life she had uh she had many things going on and she built this thing around her that she doesn't need

1:24:46 Let's say she doesn't need much lover whatsoever. Many moments where I know she needs I know she feels it. I know She kind of like She's just like not good at saying what she feels.

1:25:01 And uh I'm more open. I I show more my emotions, I show more if I care, if I don't care. If I suffer, if I don't suffer, she she kind of

1:25:11 Close it a little bit for ourselves. Um But uh she's a very strong woman to be honest. I know you have two beautiful kids together. Yeah, We have a beautiful girl. That was the first one.

1:25:25 At the time we were In Italy? And then it came Little Gonzalo. When we were in England.

1:25:33 So one Let's say that she's always thinking that she's half Italian. And one uh that basically looks like British is white, blonde. Um And uh one half English, let's say, and then two full Portuguese people.

1:25:51 You cover your ears is for your daughter. Yeah. She covers her ears, right? Yeah, she used to do it when she was younger. She's too old for that now. She's a little announcement. She's a lot. From me.

1:26:06 in the terms of uh being very strong and very She's like uh she can take care of herself very well is Exactly like her mom. Well I wanted to say

1:26:19 Thank you. I'm a Man United fan. And hearing that you you know, have gone through this very tumultuous period with The club.

1:26:26 Where you could have gone, where you've had many offers from many people to go and do something else. And you've had offers where people offered you even more money, and for whatever reason. I think it I now understand because I've understood your values that your parents instilled in you, you chose to stay and to stick with us as a club and as a fan base. So on behalf of myself and All of my friends that are Man Unite fans and the Man Manchester United fan base. I just wanted to say a huge thank you. Loyalty is increasingly rare these days. In football. Um because people are often thinking about other things. So as a Man United fan Thank you so much.

1:27:00 By doing that, you've also taught me something. As a man. You've also taught me what loyalty is. And how you treat other people. And you've taught me a lesson about responsibility in my businesses, in my relationships, and in my life. And I think this is a really important lesson because there are so many young men that look up to you and what you've said through the good and the bad times. Is that you keep on going.

1:27:22 You keep on going, you keep on fighting, you don't give up, you don't quit. And it's so great that the captain of the biggest club On earth. has those values and puts those values before other things that might tempt someone with Less integrity. So I just wanted to say a huge thank you. And I I also am passing that on from many of your teammates who are very, very, very glad that you stayed.

1:27:43 Okay, thank you very much. I really appreciate that. It's very kind of voice from here. And I hope you stay even longer. Yeah. I think we have a lot of the sort of foundations in place now.

1:27:58 To to carry on. And I think this Not The club, but everything in general, the fans and everyone I think really Really deserve to be back to the glory days.

1:28:12 Things have changed. I mean Ineos are here now. I know the um I know quite a lot of the guys at Ineos. Uh I was a away in the in the tour with a couple of them during uh the American pre season tour. And one of the things they said to me is what that when they arrived in the club there wasn't structure. couple of them had said to me there just wasn't and it's so rare that you have this this

1:28:31 huge gap between the manager and the ownership or the players and the ownership that usually in clubs their structure they've I think from what I've heard from players, they've put that structure in place now. How has it changed? with anyos' arrival. No, I think was uh first of all was important because as you said, uh Not that we didn't have a structure, but it was very difficult for players to understand where you where they had to go.

1:28:55 to talk in certain situations that they we were not very clear we should talk with. And now I think it's very clear that you have Jason. Then you have Omar and then you have Sir Jim. I'm uh I'm very aware that now

1:29:09 the structure that we have is uh is a good foundation and a good base for us to understand Where And which places we need to go. If we need something as a club or as a players. Has it improved? We started a process with uh Ruben. Where we thought that would be a process of three, four years.

1:29:25 That was the plan of the club. Then we know there was a break in in a relationship there between the manager and the club and they had to change, unfortunately. Uh And now they Today they have announced that they want to go in the direction with uh with Michael. And

1:29:40 Hopefully for me, I hope that it stay stable because the main thing the club needs is stability in terms of managing because If you really believe that Michael is the guy and and you took him to the job, I think you have to Give him the foundations he need to build what he thinks he needs for A successful team

1:29:59 At the same time. I think you brought someone in that knows what are the follows of the club. And I think that's the main thing and the most important thing that the club brings people in that know the values and know what's needed and have a great character to be at this club. And Michael's the guy? Yeah, because as I said, I think is the is the one that uh Knows the club better than any any player that hear. Uh he's been probably more time at the club. I've been with him as a manager, assistant manager and then manager. The way he behaves uh

1:30:28 he shows that he has the character to be the manager of many nights and think that's very important to Have someone that in the th the the full process will know always where he wants to go where where he wants to be and how much he wants this club to succeed. And that's statistically accurate. For this to continue on And to continue going forward. Obviously the summer is going to be really, really important. And I was talking to a few of the other players about this as well, like Diego. What needs to happen this summer, in your opinion, for Manchester United to continue to move up and potentially even fight for the title? We need recruitment is is obviously we know we know like obviously we losing Casamiro there is uh a pivot uh pivotal thing that we had so

1:31:12 We're gonna need a player to replace him. uh either is a player that is already in the house, either is a player that's coming, we need to reforce the team to become stronger as a team, not We need uh the best player in the world, this or that. No, we need players that want to come to United to understand that we through the process that we want to win the league. But it might not happen. But this is the way we want to go to

1:31:35 become the successful club that we were before. So I think the recruitment has to be the right one. We need to bring the right people in again, as we did last summer. I think in that Rubin was great in the choices he made to bring the players he he did to to the club because he brought good characters Yeah. And good professionals also, and I think that's very important for the next one. Bruno, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving the question for. And the question that's been left for you.

1:32:03 is if we sat here in five years time And the five years that had just passed were a huge success. What would have ha to have happened? Huge success. Let's say that I've I've won the Premier League.

1:32:21 I've won the Champions League with the club. And uh we've brought Got the old We've brought the club.

1:32:28 Back to the place he has to be. In terms of club, obviously. In five years time I would like to Be able to That's one of the gold ones too with my national team, of course. That's

1:32:40 Let's say that's my biggest goal in terms of career. The World Cup. Probably the World Cup. I would say because winning the Premier League and the Champions League We this club will be amazing, but

1:32:53 Representing my nation will be always the biggest achievement I have in my career. Because Not many players get to do that, you know, like uh representing your This is When you represent your people, when you represent your parents.

1:33:08 Your brother, sister, wife, kids. This is Ye represent that Small nation inside

1:33:17 But in size. But Vegan quality and vegan In love and and fearless a fearless country that has conquered the world many times in different ways. And doing it in the in in in a football way will be will be a a great achievement for us. Irrespective of what happens here.

1:33:35 And I I very much believe that Manchester United has now the potential to go and challenge for these trophies here because of all the hard work that has been put in by many people in this club, but also because of your loyalty. And irrespective of what happens, uh you're gonna be a a cult here at this club forever. Not not not irrespective of this stuff, because I think you've done something which is even harder and even more rare in the modern world, which is you've shown tremendous loyalty, unbelievable character, you've shown humanity, and you've set an example for the club when we were at our weakest, when we needed someone to do that the most. It's all well and good. Doing it when everything's great. It's all well and good. being that committed and that loyal and setting that much of an example and continuing to run on the pitch, but also to be an exceptional human off the pitch when times are hard, I think says even more about a man. So again, on behalf of all the Man United fans, a huge, huge thank you and um Please sign the contract. When he's in the table. Brilliant, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you.

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