Gavin Newsom, The Next President Of The US? "America's At Breaking Point & Trump's Playing Dangerous Games!"

0:00 Epstein and Trump were close. Sorry, Donald, just a fact. And when Elon Musk tweets Trump's on the list, and a few days later, there is no list. It begs questions. So they dangled this in order to get votes. And they lied to people. And we're only six months in, and the vandalization that he's done pushing the boundaries on the rule of law. This is darkness. Really? Because I hear this every election cycle. No, it's a dangerous game and America is struggling, and I really worry about our democracy. But Trump is likely to lose power unless they can rig the game. Governor Avenue, sir. Are you going to try and become the next president of the United States? Governor of California Gavin Newsome. Gavin Newsome. Who is the real Gavin Newsom? I think most people see me as sort of the slick guy. Grew up with a trust fund, but I didn't come from any wealth. Like my mom was a single mom. But she was working two, three jobs. She ran out of her own bedroom, sacrificed everything for two kids, and I was going nowhere academically.

0:56 But she never gave up on me. And as your sort of political career starts to accelerate, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. Yeah, and she was in so much pain, suffering, she's gonna do an assisted suicide. And uh I was holding her hand and she's And

1:11 But look, everything defines the best of me. Grit, hard work is reflected in her. He's a stone called life. There's always conflict between you and Trump. I think he enjoys sparring with me. I know he thrives on it, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it. Every time I have a conversation, it's unbelievably cordial. He says, You need anything, call me. Including the night before. Or quote unquote federalized the National Guard, but then tells me he wants to take me out. Do you think he's gonna try and stay in power? So I don't think I'm exaggerating, but when people close to Donald Trump son, the governor of California hates They're not

1:53 You're out? Just give me thirty seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us, and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here.

2:16 Please join the twenty four percent of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm gonna make to you. I'm gonna do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're gonna deliver the guests that you want me to speak to, and we're gonna continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. Governor Gavin Newson.

2:43 Can you quite believe Your life. Your You're running One of the most consequential

2:50 states in America, arguably the most consequential state in America, but also I I read that it's the fourth highest GDP in the world now. In the world. It's always in the headlines. There's always conflict between you and Trump. I just wanted to start with this question, like can you believe your life? If you talk to my ten year old self, this is impossible. Couldn't even dreamt it. I don't know if it was a dream or a nightmare.

3:14 At ten. I mean, I'm not sure this is what I wanted. At ten. I'm not sure I wanted this at Twenty. Or even thirty.

3:22 And I know you're gonna continue to shoulder roll. What I'm gonna say. But Many of the bookmakers, the odds have you as being the next president of the United States in twenty twenty eight. Yeah. I'm gonna throw the I'm know you're gonna shoulder roll it and tell me California that's a Well that's surreal.

3:38 I mean that's ridiculo I mean, that's something that Even in in those higher moments, not low moments, where I may have had a little bit more confidence. Million years we'll never imagine. that I would be at this moment. And I yeah, that's that creates a lot of humility.

3:53 I've a lot of grace around that. I mean the idea that that's you're even in the conversation. I know that sounds rotten cliche, throw humble brag. The fact that I'm in the conversation. Is extraordinary. Is it a reality? I don't know. I mean that's that's fate will determine. I I I totally understand that, but I but I want to just get clear on one thing, which is

4:13 You would Be honored. Two play the role as president of the United States if and when that opportunity cooled or presented itself. Yeah, I mean I I don't know about playing the role, but if it if it you know if the moment meets you and you meet the moment, if you can express with congruency the why.

4:31 And you can do it without. The pretense and the You could do with authenticity. And you truly believe That you add value.

4:40 Yeah. Against others that may be lined up. Um Yeah. But You know, I won't go through the motion. I don't need to be something to do something.

4:48 Yeah. For me it's it's it's uh it's you've gotta I mean gotta feel it. It's gotta be in my my core, my soul. It's gotta be a burning. need and desire to be accountable and to to reflect the moment and reflect the aspirations and the dreams and uh of millions and millions of people and and to have enough confidence. Uh that you feel you can deliver in that respect. Do you think you could deliver in that respect? I I you know, increasingly.

5:12 Which is strange. I wouldn't have been I don't know that I could have said that a few years ago. I mean that. I feel like things for me have radically changed and we can get into why. I mean I've gone through they're they're working on the seventh recall against me right now. I went through a recall process. I've been on the receiving end of a national effort to you know try to do everything to undermine what I'm doing and And going up against Trump and Trumpism and and the surround sound and these propaganda networks twenty-four-seven, I'm I'm more resolved now. I mean in an intense way.

5:40 Ways I d I'm I'm discovering myself. In this process, I'm in the other side. Of where I ever expected to be, even a year ago. And uh I feel Deeply accountable and deeply responsible.

5:54 I don't know where that Takes me. But I know I have a responsibility over the next eighteen months. And I'm gonna run the 110 yard dash. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna run the ninety yard dash on the way out of here. And so that's that's what I know. I got to sell by date. And I'm gonna put everything on the line.

6:11 Let's get into it then in terms of your early context in your childhood because I think You have to understand that to understand the person and the complexities of the person that I'm sat in front of today. So can you give me the specifics of your earliest context? You know, it's it you know, I think shaped like so many people watching. I mean, how many of us uh over half of us had similar experiences of uh, you know, um nineteen year old who's pregnant. uh with her firstborn me. And a few years later she's on her own with two kids. Uh she came from no wealth.

6:40 No real privilege. Her father committed suicide was a prisoner of war coming out of uh World War Two. She struggled with her own identity, her own confidence. Uh she struggled raising two kids. Uh my father who left us, but not in disgrace, uh who was an extraordinary figure, but an elusive figure growing up and you sort of marked So much of my early childhood is sort of longing trying to connect. But the the anchor.

7:04 The rock was this rock star single mom. And and everything defines the best of me and the worst of me. this notion of grit, hard work, you gotta manifest, nothing's gonna be handed to you. Um is reflected in her at the same time a lot of the anxiety and and and fear. Uh sense of, you know, I mean sometimes loneliness. I mean, she was a very lonely person. Tessa Yeah, Tessa passed away.

7:27 almost two decades ago. And uh I'm I'm now older than she was when she passed away. And and you know, I just I never fully appreciate it. Huh. To the degree I do now. As a father.

7:39 Yeah, as a mother struggling with not only Herself. Just trying to be a good mother, trying to have a career a life. But also struggling to

7:49 Support her kids. And support a kid, in this case me, who was struggling in every way, particularly with pretty severe learning disabilities, with self esteem and um and never fully appreciated. Her sacrifice. Give me the colour on the learning disabilities because someone looks at you someone so accomplished in both business and in politics and you say that you had learning d difficulties as a child. I mean I was I was a guy in the back of of the class.

8:15 I was a guy with the head down. I was a guy you know. Soaking wet, sweating. Uh is a guy shaking underneath, not physically shaking. Um Desperate not to be called on in the class. I'm someone who still can't read a speech.

8:28 You're in the wrong business, I think, politics. You can't read a speech. Can do a teleprompter. But you'll never see me. Haven't seen me go up and down looking at speech. I can't. Still struggle to read if I read. I have to underline everything. I have to uh organized uh everything through not only underlining, highlighting, and then I go back and reread what I underlined in order to understand it. Once I understand it, boy, I understand it. I mean then it's

8:51 you know, part of who I am, which is the other side of dyslexia. But I you know, it was I was a guy that yet was was going nowhere academically. Yeah, I was just I was that kid and uh I had a sister that was the o exact opposite. Yeah, well I'm getting my nine sixty in American SAT. She was getting thirteen eighty. It was easy for her.

9:10 Uh everything was easy for her. And so that contrast and that anxiety that came from that contrast and the struggle that my mom had of trying to sort of work with me or work and, you know. That was uh that marked so much of you know my memories and decades of my life. And at that early age, sub ten, w what did you think of yourself? What was your self perception, self image?

9:30 The thing that we're going to do. You know, I don't Think I shared. Uh is the thing that is most indelible in my life when my mother in struggling with me and I'll never forget it. And I don't

9:41 recall if I responded to her at the time. But It's marked half a century of my life. When she said it. because I couldn't I was just I was giving up. I couldn't read this chapter or whatever it was. She said it's okay to be average.

9:55 Like And I think about that all the time, man. I mean and and I Forgive her, I think. For that.

10:06 I think Because she was struggling with me? But that's a hell of a thing to say to a kid. And I think she was just saying it's okay. You don't have to be your sister.

10:15 You're not your dad. You know, you never be that person. I loved her deeply and I'm here because of her. But That shapes.

10:24 A lot of the early That that person. But You know, and it's shape too, I've become because I've done everything in my power to Two

10:33 overcompensate. For The struggle. And for that mindset. Where

10:40 I could have easily believed that. And I could have easily become that. In terms of money in the home, well y I sometimes think of when I think of about my own childhood, money was almost this other person. You know it's funny, we talk about attachment styles and we say some people have like this avoidant attachment style, this anxious attachment style, this secure attachment style. And I think of money in the same way. It it it's In homes it's a

11:02 person, sometimes it's distant and never there, sometimes it's causing the argument. What was money in your household? Like what was the relationship that you'd formed with it? Well, I had interesting experience with with Money. Because We didn't come from any wealth.

11:16 But my father Uh his relationships were attached to extraordinary wealth. abundance of wealth. His closest friends in the world were some of the richest families in the world. Um

11:29 And He while he didn't have himself. tremendous amount of wealth. He led a very wealthy lifestyle. Meanwhile, my mom and I and my sister were there, uh doing, you know Our Swanson's um you know. Frozen food. No, we're doing our craft macaroni and cheese. We're doing our you know, but money was always

11:47 the source of the stress. 'Cause he didn't have much to give her. She didn't have much. Period. So she was working two, three jobs. And when I say two, three jobs, when I say that, I mean literally two, three jobs. We had guests always living at the house. I didn't understand what guests living at the house mean. She moved out of her own bedroom. To rent out the bedroom.

12:05 Um if you wanted something at a paper root, worked for Jeff Hicks Construction. If you want a basketball hoop, you're gonna have to work for it. There was nothing handed, nothing given. And so she was grinding, she's working and part time waitress. I got in the restaurant business. I was a bus boy. There's some moments that changed my life there that I'll never ever ever ever ever forget. And so Money

12:26 Was a source of stress. But also some evil in the context of Too much. And seen the abundance. With people I knew.

12:34 with trust funds with a relationship to money where they lost their motivation, they lost their purpose, their meaning, their mission. And so when I started getting a business, it was never about making money. It was about making a difference. It was about building something, a brand. was about adding some value. And that pursuit. I think create a mindset where the businesses actually really thrived.

12:56 because it wasn't about the money. It was about something more important. It was bigger than that. And and so my relation to money in that respect really became a gift, a guide. in terms of my entrepreneurial. Uh pursuits dyslexia. Certainly. Was the greatest gift in relationship to the entrepreneurial suits. And that led to this, led to me sitting here with you as governor of California in politics.

13:18 And when did you find out you had dyslexia?'Cause I I read that your mother She didn't she didn't tell me. And I I wonder I I think about this'cause I've got a couple of kids that are struggling. And And uh we made the mistake with one of them to tell him, Yeah, I think you got and now he uses it as a crutch. And I she never wanted it as a crutch. She never told me. She said.

13:37 I found out about it. I was home early one day. Came back from school. And I I I don't know why I ended up in her room. And I'm looking, she's got a little desk and there's a file open and I'm like And then I saw the word dyslexia. I'm like

13:50 The hell is this? And I remember she got home, I said, Mom, what is this? And she goes, Put that away. Like what is it? She goes no. And we had this conversation.

14:00 She said, I didn't really want to talk to you about it. You've been struggling with I said, I know I can't read and stuff you know I'm stupid, Mom. And she said, No, you're not stupid. We're working through all that. And she just didn't want to give create the stigma. She didn't want me to use this as a crutch, as an excuse. I think I and I'm angry back to the sort of Yeah, dialecting my own brain about Good bet.

14:20 Um I appreciated that. Because it was an excuse. Not a victim. Decisions, not conditions, term our fate and future. This notion uh that We can shape things. That I don't uh that I wasn't stigmatized.

14:33 in that respect. So I can make excuses around it. I had to work around it. I had to work through it. And I think that was the path she she chose and and I'm in many ways grateful that she did. Were you bullied by other children? Yeah. We had uh Baltimore Street. I told the president this too.

14:49 Yeah. Speaking of Trump, uh he He we were talking a few weeks ago and he goes, Hey This new scum thing, you know,'cause he calls me new scum. Gavin New Scott.

14:59 He goes pretty original, right? It's not Mr. President, it's not particularly original. Uh. And he goes, What do you mean? What do you mean? I said, Well there were there was uh the bully on Baltimore Street.

15:10 Uh in Cortamadera, California used to call me new scum. He goes, ah hey, well yeah, what yeah. I mean he was seven, eight, or nine. You're seventy nine, Mr President. I told him that too. And he moved immediately off on another topic. Uh yeah. So we you know, I was I was the bowl cut guy.

15:27 The hair, you know, the the Dutch boy look, you know, you remember that off. You remember the old Dutch boy stuff. Um sort of American, iconic American. Brand uh and And uh And it was easy to see why I might have been bullied. So you get the haircut.

15:46 Yeah, you get the vibe. This is uh this is my father Trying to insert So g Irish Catholic family. My dad went to uh uh Catholic schools and so by definition, I went to Catholic school.

15:58 My mother who loved the sailor outfits, knee high black socks. Uh Yeah, you're likely to get bullied or going on the bus. It's not the best cut, but we've all we've all had we've all been on the journey with our haircuts. It's good. When I hear your story and the the context you grew up in with with your mother, with the bullying, with the challenges at school. Um with the dad, that's a way. And I know the stats around young boys that grow up in particular that don't have a father figure in home at home.

16:24 That for me that's a perfect recipe for like Small T, maybe big T trauma. In some capacity. Later in your life you talked about having Uh

16:34 Challenges with alcohol. Yeah, oh yeah, no. And I I wondered if that if that that picture That's part of the same picture, which is putting the mask on various forms of escapism. Yeah. No, a hundred percent well my my my grandfather that took his life was was an alcoholic.

16:51 Um And my mother struggled a little bit. And it was more self medicating. For me, I started discovering that as well. Of course I look, I got in the wine business. Yeah. So I'm immediately attracted to the business side of it. Opened a wine store right out of college, opened a number of restaurants at seven or eight restaurants. Have four wineries as I speak today. So wine became ubiquitous in my life is also my connection back to my dad, which is a whole nother journey. And you started that business in nineteen ninety two, which was the year I was born.

17:20 And as I'm rubbing it. As I sit here thirty two years later, the business still exists. You've placed it into a trust. It still exists and uh it grew about there were twenty two or four businesses at peak. About a thousand employees a peak. Came from that one business. I was the only full time employee for almost two years.

17:40 Yeah, man, I'll tell you just the greatest training for politics in life, just opening your own business, small business. And uh those were some special days and uh and went from that to a restaurant up the block. A few years later, a hotel, a winery, now four wineries. Uh we had five or six restaurant uh hotels and nine restaurants at peak and Businesses are still around.

18:01 I I was reading that you had This sort You gave employees Five hundred dollars. For a magical moment award.

18:09 Well it was a failure award. A failure award. And then it became my sister took over'cause I I got into politics and uh she said, I don't like this failure framework. I said, Well it's it's the b I love failure. I'm good at it. Dyslexics are the best at it. I I mean there's nothing linear about our lives. It's fail forward fast, missed under percent of shots you don't take. So you were giving employees five hundred dollars to Well, yeah, I had a great just a a very brief example. So I had a little hotel up in Squaw Valley, Lake Tahoe area, and a lot of mosquitoes during the summer months. It's an old motel built for the

18:41 the winter Olympics, the 1960 winter Olympics, built in nineteen fifty nine for the delegates. Was supposed to be torn down. It sort of patched together and we we we held it together, but it had no air conditioning. So you'd keep the doors open, you keep the windows open, but in the summer the mosquitoes came in, drove the guests crazy. So we had this nightclerk, you know, those crazy nightclerks come in, and he was getting complaints all the time about the mosquitoes. And he on his own decid one day to go before he went to work, then in eleven o'clock at night, and he bought a bunch of catfish. at the store. Because there's a bunch of ponds. around the business. And he figured that's where all the mosquitoes are starting.

19:13 So the catfish will eat the larva the of of of the mosquitoes and he'd solve the problem. So he just on his own decided to buy a bunch of catfish, dumped them in the ponds all around the hotel. Well, about four in the morning, this engineer calls me gruff guy, he says, The raccoons had a feeding frenzy. And ran through the hotel.

19:32 Because the doors were open. With Bunch of Yeah. Flying fish in their their mouths and fish everywhere. And Ludo said, You gotta fire that son of a bitch, this goddamn idiot.

19:44 And I started laughing. Went up there the next morning. Met with him and I said. This is a magical thing. You tried to solve a goddamn problem. And

19:52 We created the failure award. And I gave the biggest screw up every single month. a bonus. And at the end of the year we'd put them all together. January screw up, February screw up, and we'd have the failure of the week a year award. And did that for years until my sister said, We'll call it the magical moment award. But it was about initiative initiative, taking initiative, taking responsibility, taking ownership.

20:13 Trying new things, seeing what works, iteration. Ought to put our own mindset. It's not linear. Thinking creatively, outside the box. That's what a dyslexic by definition has to do. And that's what I thought a successful business needed to do.

20:27 And it literally empowered our employees loved it. 'Cause they felt seen and heard. And safe, I guess. And safe. Because they were like, as long as they do it with you know, no one's jumping off cliffs here. We're not encouraging, you know, recklessness, but risk taking. And it literally allowed the business not just to survive, but to start to thrive in ways I could never imagine.

20:47 I I think that's really important. It's just such an important lesson to so many business owners, especially in these changing times where everything's moving so quickly and AI and technology. That most people are incentivized just to Business as usual. Yeah.

21:01 Protect. our position if we're successful or you know to prolonged convention or whatever that might mean, but businesses that adopt that approach clearly have An edge in these rapidly changing times. Yeah, no, and and look, I mean it back to just, you know, I I remember that there was a a book Tom Peters wrote called The Pursuit of Wow. I mean if there was one book

21:20 They just Just hit me in the core. that sort of expressed everything I wanted to become. He's talking about hire the smile, train the skill. Uh about finding the superstar.

21:30 leaders and developing owners. with your leadership team. that they you know, he talked about I remember the Ritz Carlton at the time gave Literally cash. To

21:41 the folks that were cleaning the rooms. and gave them the ability to use the cash as needed to solve a problem. for their customers. They created ownership with frontline employees. that were undervalued or devalued.

21:55 He talked about, I remember, diversity as a business essential. With all the anti-woke, anti DEI stuff we're dealing with in the United States of America. I mean, from a business perspective, there's a business imperative. But it was it was Peter's decades ago that really created that mindset for me in the business, diversity broadly defined. Uh in every way, shape, or form. And so the business became this sort of

22:19 The pursuit of wow, of awe, of surprise. Iteration. of of daring energy. So the core ideology just kept growing in that space, restaurants, hotels, wineries, and a dacious, adventurous people that wanted to sort of build a brand, build something that was special. It wasn't about money, it was about pursuit of meaning and purpose, moments. So why did you leave that and do politics? I know.

22:42 Ha ha ha. There was a ph two things happened. I got a phone call. I was running the wine store, closing it up, doing bookkeeping accounting, you know, my the warehouse was in my apartment. Um one night right before I'm closing up, this guy runs in. Um

22:57 to the store. And you're very nervous guy. He's like, Can can you help me? What's a good champagne? Just I gotta get called. He's like, Thank you. Put it away. I'm like, It's good. He goes, Can you wrap it? I said, Yeah, I got it wrapped. He says Thank you, ma'am. About thirty minutes later, the guy comes back. I'm like oh

23:11 Yeah. Like I screwed up or something. But he's got this girl with him. And he's knocking on the door and I open key back up. He comes in, he goes, Just wanna introduce you to my fiancee. And I said. Wow, he goes.

23:23 Well, Your champagne, I just asked her. To marry down the block at the Palace of Fine Arts. And we love the champagne. And I just wanna say thank you. You were so nice to me. Mm.

23:32 I remember literally sitting there crying. After he left. Like that's everything that this is like. This is this is this is business, man. It's not a transaction. It's relationships.

23:44 Talk about moments, magic, man. That's that's it. To your point, I thought this is it, this is my bliss. This I'm gonna just keep doing this forever. And then I got a damn call from the mayor of San Francisco. Can I just ask you on that question? When that guy came in with his fiance, why was it so meaningful to you? I can literally still see the emotion in your face. Um Twenty years later. Because what I did had meaning.

24:06 It mattered. In a way I never thought I thought it was a transaction. Yeah. I was buying something, I was selling something. Wasn't that, man.

24:14 It was it was marking. a really important moment in his life. Business changed after that. It wasn't business. It was just it was it was a different proposition. Then you get a phone call. And I get a phone call and uh screwed everything up.

24:29 Willie Brown says, You've been you know, you just opened this store And uh you know, I've been reading you were complaining getting those permits, it was taking too long and He's Willie Brown. Willie Brown, the mayor of San Francisco, former speaker of the California Assembly, one of the most dynamic One of the most extraordinary politicians. In California history.

24:48 I would argue American history. And I don't say that lightly. Some of the world's great leaders will identify as Willie Brown as one of the most transformative political leaders. And uh so there's a couple articles in the paper about me bitching about permits and parking or something. And he calls me, he goes Awesome.

25:05 It's Willie Brown. I'm like Oh, Mr. Mayor. Hey. Come on down, next Wednesday. I don't know.

25:11 put you on the film commission. I'm like, this is amazing. I'm gonna be on the film commission. I'm 20 something years old, got a wine store. About to open a restaurant uh was working on and now he's put me on the film commission. I go down to City Hall. That next Wednesday. It's a group of twenty or thirty people. He's swearing a bunch of people into commissions and he says and Gavin Newsom.

25:28 Yeah. Open a wine store down the block, blah blah blah, goes the new chair. of the parking and traffic commission. I'm like I thought I was going on a film commission.

25:38 Literally didn't tell me or anyone. I didn't even know what chair meant. All of a sudden, twenty six, seven years old, I'm now the president. Of San Francisco's parking and traffic commission. He just randomly put me in that position.

25:52 Inspiration. Desperation. Oh what the hell I was doing. And that was how My political career began. Literally that phone call.

26:01 That appointment. Not to Film. But parking and traffic. And uh that marked uh

26:08 a pretty significant moment in hindsight in my life. And that was a a pivotal moment in your your trajectory'cause you were on course to continue being an entrepreneur probably for the rest of your life. Yeah. Yeah. Could have been somebody. So give me the whistle stop between that moment when he places you in this role To hear.

26:29 I know I know whistle stop is a tough word to use to describe that journey, but what is the whistle stop like I put my head down, I uh I learned everything I could back to sort of the humility of not knowing what you don't know and Recognizing. You know, success leaves clues and You can learn from everybody. And uh started listening, learning from people, absorbing.

26:49 And I applied myself as parking traffic commissioner so much so nine months later. uh there was a vacancy on our our board of supervisors, our city council. And Willie Brown goes, You know what? You've been doing a pretty decent job here, man. I'm gonna give you a shot.

27:03 So I was a relatively young guy. Now is the Entrepreneur business. person on our city council slash board of supervisors. And I just hit the ground running.

27:13 I opened I by that time opened a few extra businesses. It was a part time job, but I started to apply myself a little bit more full time, had to de put together a management group to start managing the business. and started applying myself more. is a supervisor. Spent almost seven, eight years doing that.

27:30 And as a relatively young guy, thirty three, four. And Willie Brown was termed out as mayor and there was an open uh with the mayor's. Uh uh seaton, I think at thirty three I announced Why the hell not? Um you know.

27:42 Give it a shot. Miss a hundred percent of shots you don't take. And uh it was I think polling third or fourth. and decided to go for it and ran for mayor of San Francisco. You became mayor of San Francisco. You had a big impact uh uh uh while you were mayor of San Francisco. One of the things people r remember you a lot for is

27:59 Your attitude towards same sex couples and the uh Defense of Marriage Act. Where you took a quite controversial stance at the time. By enabling I believe it was um same sex couples in the state to get their marriage licenses. Well I was uh

28:15 Yeah, it was uh two thousand four. And uh my party, the Democratic Party, was not uh Um People were not. enthusiastic weren't even promoting, in fact, they were almost universally opposed to same sex marriage.

28:28 And I had an experience in Washington, DC. Nancy Plosi, the speaker of the House, invited me as a new mayor. to listen to George Bush give his final State of the Union speech. And I was there um with an extra ticket, her husband's ticket. And I was up there in the rafters listening to George Bush give his speech. And in the speech, he's talking about Iraq war. He's talking about st a lot of interesting things. And he ends with, it's time for a constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage. And everyone starts applauding. And the people around me are applauding. I'm like, Jesus. I walk back out. And you had to

29:00 Put your cell phones, early cell phone days. And we're all in line waiting to get our cell phones back. And I remember the couple right next to me. As I'm waiting in line after the speech goes up. That was a hell of a speech the president gave.

29:13 I'm so sick and tired, I'll never forget. These guys say. I'm so sick and tired of the homosexual agenda. I like I literally turned homosexual.

29:21 That was pejorative. And all I thought about is, man, I want to introduce myself as mayor of San Francisco. I didn't say a word. I didn't even thought about marriage equality. When I ran for mayor, no one asked me about it. We're talking about domestic partnerships. It was literally that moment.

29:35 That I walked outside. Use that cell phone, call my chief of staff. And said we need to do something about it. He goes, Well what do you mean? And I said, Well I'm come back tomorrow, man.

29:46 What's do something. I just got elected mayor. And Made the decision then. And it unfolded a few weeks later.

29:54 to start marrying same-sex couples. And we married Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin. They've been together almost fifty years. You talk about faith, love, and devotion, constancy, what marriage should be about. They were denied the ability to marry for only one reason. They were a same sex couple and uh we decided to test The law. And Was told that

30:12 People found out. And they were not going to allow us to move forward with the first v this marriage. We were gonna do a simple ceremonial marriage and then file a lawsuit. Courts open at nine o'clock. They were gonna do a temporary restraining order.

30:26 I realized I was mayor. I could open City Hall earlier. So we open City Hall at eight. We married Fill us in line. Fill us uh in line.

30:37 um Dell rather. And Nine o'clock the courts opened. And we waited for the decision. And the judge said there's no irreparable harm. There's no reason to have a temporary sternum which

30:48 Met. That we could s keep Marrying same skise couples, which was not what we Had. Imagine.

30:55 Fast forward. What we call the Winter of love in San Francisco. Not the summer love. February two thousand four, four thousand thirty six couples from forty six states in eight countries.

31:07 came to San Francisco to Live their lives out loud. To say I do. In this magical experience that just Shook me to the core.

31:17 And Changed. Just my relationship. to my party. They were pissed.

31:25 They were furious. The Democratic Party. Yes. And I got an earfall from all of them people I would. Adored, revered, the same people. All of them. I mean this is the road advice that everyone gets. Whatever you do, just do the right thing. Do what you think is right. I remember that's what they you know, Hey young man, congrats on being mayor. Just do what you think is right. You do what you think is right. How the hell who the hell are you? I mean, I remember those who the hell are you?

31:51 To do what you just did. And It sort of shook. My confidence and This hole.

31:58 racket of politics. Like what am I doing? What did I just do? Um But it was it was uh hell of a first impression. As mayor. Uh to do that and uh that sort of started my political life. When I overlap the dates here, you you when your mayoral

32:13 Mayoral race in two thousand and three. Um Your mother g was getting was sick in the years in the lead up to that. She was diagnosed with breast cancer. Yep. So you're contending with The woman in your life who's clearly had the most uh impactful role on shaping who you are and being there for you when the odds were against you and when no one else was.

32:32 in the lead up and it's as your sort of political career starts to accelerate. She is suffering with breast cancer. Yep. And also suffering with her son being in politics. She did not want me to go in politics. In fact The The biggest

32:48 regret she had is that I was walking down the path that my father was interested in that led to their divorce in the first place. He pursued politics and lost in two elections for state senate and for county supervisor. Ironically the seat that I held. lost both races was in debt. Was humiliated.

33:06 Defeated. Said he had a breakdown. And left. That's when they got divorced. And she saw me walking down his path.

33:15 And she loved seeing me. In business. She ended up working for me as our bookkeeper. And she saw my passion in the business. She said, Why the hell you get in politics? Don't do this to yourself. And she literally on near deathbed said, Just please don't do this. Don't

33:30 Don't keep doing this. She was really upset that I ran from May. Something I think about. You know, there's there're days where I'm like I go, She told me so.

33:42 You know, when you're sitting there facing a recall. Uh yeah, like told you so. A recall for anyone that doesn't know is you know, in the middle of you know, you get a four year term and two years later they say Try to get rid of you.

33:55 And uh I faced that just second time in a half century in California. I I defeated it overwhelmingly. But that was a hell of a thing to experience and to see the nationalization of that recall. I mean the the entire Republican Party. came out to try to take me out politically. And you think about what your mom said, like She may have been right.

34:14 When did you realise that your mother wasn't going to make it with her It was when it's a S She went through l so often as a case, she fought back. It was in remission and then boom it hit again and it metastized and it was and she did it was uh I'll tell you

34:31 This I will never, ever, ever, ever recommend for anyone. And this is just my own personal experience. She called me, left a voice message. Imagine getting this voice message. I was very busy.

34:44 Doing all this stuff. And obviously not attentive enough to her and she was making the point. She goes, Hi, honey. Your mother. You haven't seen me in a while.

34:53 But next Thursday. I won't be around. So you may want to come next Wednesday because it will be my last day. Literally left a voicemail like that. I called my sister, I'm like, What the hell is this? She goes

35:04 She's crying. She said she just told me she's gonna do an assisted suicide. Because it's so bad. She left a voicemail. And so that next week. I was there, my sister and I.

35:15 We're in her room. Doctor comes in, gives her some What turned out to be oxycotton, I remember, like early on. Like what are these pills? She had to take those an hour before he got there. She takes them? Gotta smell what we're going through.

35:30 Photos like this, man. All the old photos of us growing up and we're sitting there on My sister on the left, I'm on the right. My mom there.

35:40 Took these pills, waiting for the doctor. And she's going through all these old photo albums about us growing up. Talking about these moments. Yeah. Come on, man. So

35:53 Yeah. And uh But Doctor comes in and ministers.

36:00 And she starts gasping. My sister runs out. The doctor had already left. And I was like I She's gasping for air. And I'm just Sitting there.

36:11 And holding her hand as she's And Their last breath. And uh I just sat there. My sister no one

36:19 walked in I felt like for a day it felt like hours, but it was just probably ten minutes. Or someone finally came in. Just Mother passed away and

36:28 Uh Not realizing that moment what it represented, what it ultimately meant. Yeah. I regret. That was hard.

36:38 Being there for assisted suicide. Yeah. By the way, it's proud we changed the law in California. That was probably done illegally. I don't even want to know. And if you want to come after me, come after me. Um

36:49 She needed to do it. She was in so much pain suffering. Now it's legal to do that, but it wasn't at the time when she did it. Um and um So that was uh That was a moment. And um

37:01 Yeah, that was uh you know Yeah. Just became mayor. It was back to just making stupid mistakes, man. You know, you're brand new mayor. You're overwhelmed, you're trying to figure yourself out. You lose your mom. No excuse. Um was in a marriage that was going south.

37:17 You know, it was uh it was you know. What did she say to you when she I had no idea that you sat there as sh she was administered the drugs that took her life. what were those conversations? What do you say to someone in such a s situation where it's the last conversations you're having? It was um

37:35 You know, you you say the perfunctory things, you know. Just know how much you meant to me, how much I love you, and I th and she Um She all she cared about is just don't forget me. She said that. That was the last word she said.

37:49 God is my witness. Don't. Forget me. And uh And one of the things I'm most proud of, my sister.

37:58 We started through our plumpjack. We start a foundation. Um So every year we raise money to cancer research. In my mom's name. And uh

38:08 And we've never forgotten her. And uh But she was someone that could have easily been forgotten, man. Um she's just, you know, sacrificed everything for two kids. She you know she loved us. Her.

38:22 character experience, no money, nothing. I mean she was just She struggled her own life. And uh just gave it all to us. And uh So

38:30 Yeah, those are And we all have. People in our lives like that. What a gift. And uh Yeah, I was blessed. Were there any words unsaid? Sometimes once people have moved on and you mature as as an adult and a man, you r you see things differently and you

38:43 I mentioned the earlier. being perhaps way too Canada, I imagine. After this is over, my folks what the hell were you you know? Who cares? Life's too short. Um but when I said you know, when she talked about being average, I I didn't confront her on that.

38:59 That just that was for me. Perhaps more than her. It wasn't about me. This moment. It was about just yeah.

39:07 It was so important for her to walk through. All these memories and again. That's what it's about, man. It's memories. Moments. With about nothing else.

39:17 When you're later. You win the race to become governor of San Francisco, do you think about Huh. Do you think do you wish she could have seen Yeah.

39:28 I I wish you could see my four kids. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on. Yeah. I got sworn in as governor of California. And my wife's there.

39:39 We got a three year old. He's got his pacifier and he's got his blanket. Any In the middle of my speech. Runs up. I'm giving the speech.

39:49 stressed out again. I don't read speeches, but so was a read I had a read. So I'm like, I can't look because I'm gonna lose my sight on the on the teleprompter. And my son runs up. My wife was nervous to run up on stage'cause it was like, this is a big damn deal. And he comes right up, grabs me. And

40:08 Everyone kind of like is moving around the audience. I'm like What do I do? And I like just instinctually lifted him. And he put his head right on the side. And start to fall asleep. And I read the speech.

40:20 With my son. No one remembers a damn word I said. I don't remember word. Everyone members. What it felt like.

40:28 Oh, I thought about that moment. If my mom was around to see that. Wasn't the governor. It was uh It was the parrot.

40:38 And uh Yeah, sorry, man. It's uh Unbecoming. Give me but

40:44 That that's uh I wish I wish she was around for them. Why? Because it's uh

40:51 Well, I wish I could thank her for Be An extraordinary parrot. I never did. I told you I took it for granted. I never knew how hard it was until I had my own kids, but I

41:01 I think she'd be so proud of Of uh Of Of our

41:06 Yeah. Absolutely. Nine year old Dutch, fifteen year old Montana. I think she'd be proud of me. In that respect.

41:13 I think She wanted me to be happy. She wanted me to be a good husband. I got this incredible rock star wife, Jennifer. I got these four Unbelievable kids, man. Just fill me with joy.

41:25 Um I struggle to be a better parent, husband. Politics. Yeah. But uh that's all she wanted for me. When you're in the public eye, um As I guess I kind of am now because people watch me a lot. Um it's there's al always this balance between

41:42 What people see, which is a very two dimensional thing, which is what people see of me. And then there's the the the imperfect, messy home life, which I contend with every single day. Like even on the way here this morning, I'm like, I'm gonna be late for Gavin New Gavin Newsom because my girlfriend's having like period cramps and I'm like, I don't wanna leave my girlfriend, but I need to go, I'm gonna be late, and I'm like trying to you know and then we had the alarms going off in the house and then The all the lights flicker because you just moved in, as you know, and then the it's just craziness. And then you look at my phone and there's business problems and then there's my my my family problems are going on and then I come here. And I interview you. I'm sorry. No no no, but obviously it's a great it's a tremendous honor, as you know, but it's just it's I say that because there is a behind the scenes. And the behind the scenes is not as perfect as the exterior. No, I know. You're alluding to the season of your life being filled with

42:32 Imperfection. Yeah. Tell me about the human imperfection that was was taking place behind the scenes as you were Excelling professionally. I think there was a A magazine.

42:44 Uh economist. Did a headline said Young man in a hurry. He wants to be governor. Seriously. And it wasn't question mark. It was more There we are. It was more like

42:55 Like he's serious, he actually thinks he could be governor was kind of a snarky Headline piece. But the headline struck me Young Man in a hurry. That's who I was. was the entrepreneur.

43:07 I'm sort of trying to You know. Just trying to make things happen, trying new things, seeing what works. I mean a little bit more success than failure. Um

43:17 Yeah. learning from mistakes, moving on. Um you know, move pretty quickly, relatively young age. I mean I was I think one of the youngest mayors in San Francisco history. Um, you know, in my thirties. And um

43:29 And you know, I'm losing my mom. A relationship my my first wife who was it was uh ended extraordinarily well. She's you know, I I nothing Negative to say, et cetera, but it ended. That was embarrassing. You know, that's you're it's in the public. Everything's the pu I'm growing up in the public. I'm growing up with this just bright lights. How did you fuck up?

43:48 Yeah, I just I I I just I got I I didn't I wasn't situationally where I wasn't emotionally mature.

43:57 In terms of I remember uh a good friend of mine, Mimi Silbert, who's just a rock star got my sh just just got my act. She she is the one who got me to get my act together. She goes. I s She's not.

44:10 You're the mayor. In San Francisco. I said. Yeah, I know. She goes, Well then start acting like it. I said, what are you talking about?

44:17 I said. I said, I when I go on around, I don't need to be in the front row. She has. You need to be in the I said, I don't need to I don't like being in the front row. I don't like the I don't need to be right. She says, the fucking mayor. And you'll be in the front row. And you'll have people watch you in the front row because that's what they want from their mayor. And I'm like

44:32 I remember saying this like what? I just say he's like, no, I'm good. She says it's not about you. I said, well no, I I don't need that. I don't need the I like the job. I don't that's that's not part of the job. That's the pad. That's like the press conference sign. I like I don't and it was such a She literally It had such a I remember that I remember

44:50 Yeah. Sitting there with dinner with her. At Delancey Street. When she said that to me. And it sort of hit me in the core.

44:57 There was I w there was a lack of maturity. That I I was just the entrepreneur. That happened to be mayor. And I It's ironic, based on our conversation, needed to play the role.

45:11 A little bit more than I was. And I needed to mature. And I needed to get my act together. And I you know, and that I went through a process. There was a couple of years there, a year. Where

45:22 You know, a lot of things happened all at once. And I was able to get through it. What were those things that happened all at once? Well, I mean divorce, you lose your mom, divorce. Dealing with A new job dealing with high profile decisions that became very national all of a sudden I'm You know.

45:39 punching above my weight as a a young elected official in ways that I not many people didn't necessarily imagine the marriage Quality issues being one of them. Involved in. To your point about drinking a little too much?

45:52 Um and after the divorce making some stupid mistakes that uh that I owned up to and regret. And uh having to work through all that. I mean, these are you know, it's around this time. You know, and uh You know, what I could tell this kid. What would you tell him?

46:09 Get your shit together. You're referring to an extramarital affair which you owned up to. Yeah, I wasn't married, but she was. And uh And I it's funny, I I've I've got a a little Um memoir that I'm putting out, ironically called Young Man in a Hurry next year.

46:24 I love the title. Relate as well. That I'm very s you know, I I reflect on that and dive deeper in a very self critical way and I hope very honest way. And I hope people can appreciate that. I think people will, because I think every normal b human being understands that they too are imperfect and especially when Life takes hold.

46:43 Yeah. And you're growing and you're learning, we all make mistakes. I've made mistakes and expect to make a lot more. Yeah. But I think it's in the admittance of those mistakes and acknowledging them that That's where we uh That's when we find out who we actually are. Yeah. You know?

46:57 And I yeah, humiliated. Humiliated. I had no knowledge of any of this stuff, but so when you say humiliated, I just humiliate my dad, uh He said something and I'll tell you carried Forward with me.

47:10 Uh he was so disappointed in me. And he said, You go home with the one and brought you to the dance. And that was the impact I had on one of my Friends that I You know.

47:22 Because of that very and I don't it's not a way, it's just like the shortest It wasn't even a relationship. It was like just Just some stupid stuff. And um and I've just tried to you know, I mean the fact that we're friends today is like really important to me, like one of the most important things, like to sort of reconcile and that's been really Um profoundly important as part of

47:42 journey. Uh but Yeah, I I let him down. Embarrassed. My dad, I embarrassed myself.

47:49 I wasn't myself. And um I had to give my shit together and um and did. I just a drop of the dime. I mean, back to just me Silbert and just a rock star and she told me you know, I remember she said You're coming over to see me tonight, and we're gonna fix this.

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49:07 And the challenging times, head to just works dot com now. That's just works. Dot com At that age you were a very young man. I mean you still look look like a young man now. God bless you, brother. Um But uh the uh young men are in particular s have a particular set of struggles in the modern world. And you've used certain words that sort of parlay into that. You've used the words purpose and meaning.

49:28 And if we look at some of the stats around how young men are doing. In the country, it's not great. And even y even young boys are doing terribly across the world for a variety of reasons. And when we think about the political climate. And what's happened in this last election cycle. And how young men are voting increasingly for a certain set of ideas.

49:45 What Wha what do you think is going on with young men? And what is the solution or answer that will lead them to a better outcome? I'm really proud of it. My wife Um

49:55 Who's Ben. A real leader. She's w done a half dozen documentaries. She did one that was particularly well received called um a misrepresentation about the myths and disinformation around women and girls. She followed up like two years later in twenty fifteen.

50:12 Uh with a documentary called The Mask You Live In. About masculinity. In twenty fifteen. She was highlighting all the things the trend lines. a decade ago than are headlines today.

50:24 Mm as it relates to the crisis of of boys and men. And she was noting the suicide rate. She was talking about, you know, deaths of despair. She was talking about educational attainment. She was talking about all these issues that were at a next level crisis. And it was so ahead of our time in so many respects. And and she's come back to me on that over and over again, particularly with our two boys and their maturation versus my two girls, uh, in the relationship we have to our deeper understanding of how men and Uh and and and girls and women and boys are different.

50:54 And And so This is code red. in this country, around the world increasingly. And if it was to happen to any minority group, particularly in my party, the Democratic Party, we'd be all over it.

51:06 Instead, we've been timid about it. Because men have this sort of hierarchical uh the the benefits in society go back hundreds and hundreds of years of men are really struggling, really. You know, men still dominate in all these key positions of power and influence. But when you see all what's happening underneath. It is a crisis, and as a consequence.

51:25 the Republican Party, Donald Trump in particular, and I think some respects what's happening in this sort of manosphere, and I don't mean that pejoratively, but in you know, there's been not an exploitation, at least there's a recognition. In a relationship to it. that has attracted a lot of young men that are seeking meaning, purpose, and mission. And as a consequence, it's also been weaponized. uh, particularly by one party in a way that I don't think is ultimately

51:51 beneficial or positive. Our party needs to own up to that and we need to address These realities. Uh Richard Reeves is doing amazing work on it. Scott Galloway's doing amazing work on it. So many folks in this space, uh you know Katz have been doing it dec decade ago talking about it. But Democratic Party.

52:11 my party needs to own up in this space and just so I'm not you know accused of preaching and not practicing. I've worked for the last six months on an executive order that we're about to release in this space. That goes to Issues around education.

52:25 Can't be what you can't see in a lot of these Kindergarten elementary teachers, most of'em are women. It's so about recruiting more men. uh to become teachers, focusing on caregiving, focusing more broadly on very intentional interventions to begin to address this crisis. The Democratic Party, I think it's fair to say, most certainly play their hand wrong in this regard. And the word played is obviously again c comes loaded, but but very much I think

52:52 I think To so some c I think people could fairly say to some degree turned against Or misunderstood men. Is probably a better way of saying it.

53:04 Misunderstood the plight of men and boys. And the the the Republican Party, I think, the message that they offered, although there's Shades of You know.

53:18 Behaviour. Or um narrative that is not productive. At least spoke directly to men. Hundred percent. We didn't What do you think the Democratic Party got wrong as it relates to appealing to young men?

53:31 What's the narrative that the Democratic Party Projected but sh shouldn't have. I think uh there was just deep uh lack of empathy. Yeah. Any compassion.

53:42 Uh in in in recognition. even deeper understanding. I think it's still something I still have conversations with folks and And people are very uncomfortable in my party talking about this, particularly Members.

53:57 o of my party and leadership positions, particularly women. That just feel like Come on, we just went through me too. We're struggling with gender equality. Inequality. We still don't have equal representations in all these CEO positions, and obviously we're struggling in legislatures. Uh we continue to have this glass ceiling we can't break. And what more proof do you need than Kamala Harris and and uh in Hillary Clinton? Uh we don't even get paid for

54:20 the same amount as as men and what the hell are you talking to me about the unique plight and challenges of men. And then you start saying, Well, there's gonna be two to one graduates coming from our UC system here in California in the next six years. Like, that's not true. And and then they see the dads, women, and they go. Oh, I didn't realize that. Or two to one women graduates in the year. I mean, we're on that track. I mean, we're moving down that path. You see the suicide rates are just off the chart. You see the deaths of despair, meaning overdoses off the charts. And you see all of these indexes of unhappiness and loneliness and isolation. You see, I mean, Scott, he's been just he's the best. I mean, talking about what this means in terms of just the inability for for boys to ever become men.

55:01 To be caregivers. uh to be those warriors, to have, you know, to to be uh those role models, to even have to have the masculine traits of just real being able to be engaged in a real relationship. as opposed to attached to some notion of relationship online porn or something. And so I it's a comprehensive. strategy that needs to be engaged. And

55:22 For me politically, it's As I said, it's code red, not just a little bit. The substance. The morality of it. but also the politics attached to it because the other party is weaponized this and it's it's multicultural, it's multi-ethnic. It's not just it's not just white male.

55:38 uh grievance that's being expressed in this space. If and when you become president in twenty twenty eight or another year. How is the attitude towards men going to shift and what are the practical ways that you get there? Well I I don't think you wait. For that moment. I think we have to shape that moment. I think we have to take responsibility. We have to take account. We have to have a sober first of all, you have to have a deeper sober reflection. Why the hell Democratic Party

56:03 is at twenty seven percent in polls just a few months ago. I mean it's a toxic party in terms of its brand. Why? Uh exactly. We need to understand that. I can give you twenty five theories. Can you give me in super'cause I'm not a politician, so I don't understand a lot of the political talk, but like That is staggering. Yes.

56:19 And and why did it happen? Yes. Thank you. That's the question. Why do how do you think that's the one that's why it's one of the reasons I started my own podcast. It was part of that exploration. Again, back to humility and grace, two words I'll use over and over and over and over again. Seek first to understand before you're understood. I listened to all the punditry hours after the election. results. Yeah. And everyone was an an expert. I'm like, that's amazing. You're an expert? It was Israel, for sure. No, it was inflation, for sure. No, it was interest rates, for sure. No, it was incumbency uh for sure. No, it was uh it was woke for sure. It was trans for sure. Everyone was for sure

56:57 They knew exactly what it was. I'm like, this is amazing. Everyone just knows what's going on. Meanwhile, I'm like 20 pages in. writing this down say, oh it it's about lost manif Oh no, it's about the man of No, it's about B was about Joe Rogan. We didn't go into Oh, for sure. Uh it was about she know she didn't, you know, she didn't say this or she it was the view for sure she could have separated from Biden. No, it's a it was a And and then I'm like, well, wait a second, I I need to really understand this more fully. Well you know. Uh and so that became my own journey back to the entrepreneur, the inter trying to iterate and deciding to get some folks that I vehemently disagree on.

57:32 with it on my uh on a new podcast, Charlie Kirk, because you know, for sure He was successful in convincing a lot of young men to turn out in record numbers for Trump. I wanted to learn about that. Back to this notion of success leaves cute clues. I wanna pick his brain. What are you doing right, man? Show some humility and grace as it relates to

57:50 Uh not try to be argumentative in in the interview? Just I'm trying to pick I wanna know. Why you're so successful. That offended a lot of people. What did you discover?

58:00 Uh. There he's got a plan. He's executing a plan, he's got a strategy, he's got a date. that he's identified with a goal attached to it. Uh he's got a dream with a deadline.

58:11 He's there. In places people don't expect him to be. He's meeting with folks. without any filter. He's willing to confront people he disagrees with and and agrees with. He's willing to be out there on the field. He's he's organized.

58:24 A construct. And he's been very deliberative of building a sense of community. And this notion of community. We all want to be Connected. to something bigger than ourselves. It's all big part of this as well, part of the MAGA movement.

58:36 And particularly w with people feeling disconnected. you're naturally gonna wanna find your way back. To something bigger than themselves that sort of moors you and gives you a sense of purpose and and meaning as well. And when people are lost, they do go s in search of Someone who resonates with them and someone who speaks directly to the their polite. And I it my observation as someone that's not an American

58:56 When I think about someone like Charlie Kirk versus Kamala Harris, it's the absolute opposite approach. Yeah. Kamala Harris Lots of people say she avoided going on Rogan, she wanted him to fly to she wanted to fly to her She was gonna give him a tiny sh short time window. It was probably gonna be a bit sanitized in all all respects. And then Charlie Cook sits on campuses across the US. And has students come up and ask him any question and his response is

59:22 He shows you his response. To his credit, and he um is doesn't care about sanitization or being politically correct. Correct. And he puts it on YouTube. For hours and hours and hours and hours.

59:35 And I think in a glass box world Where we get to see inside now because of technology, the black box approach where your PR team paints paints tries to paint an image on the outside. is over. And we start in this election cycle. And you're doing it, you're leading the ch I have to give you credit, you are leading the charge there because I can't think of another key political figure globally.

59:55 who has started a podcast where you literally invite the other side On say You doing I think you're playing the glass box approach. Everything you said resonated with me.

1:00:08 Um had Steve Bannon on. Yeah. Which uh is uh just you know itself was interesting. Look. Um Yeah. These folks exist and persist. You can deny it. My party can deny it at its own peril. Back to your point about what the hell's happening to my party. And so trying to understand that, trying to unpack that.

1:00:27 But you know it's interesting, just I think you know, coma is an old friend of mine. I don't want to get in it. common and I say old friend and people roll their eyes in politics, people say, you know, old friend, it means they're friend of me. But we we go back before we were both in politics. We both share that Willie Brown, the former mayor in common in terms of a relationship that we both had. And as a consequence of the relationship we had with him, we were able to get to know one another as sort of this cohort. And um And I I I think a lot about, you know.

1:00:55 What we've just gone through. I wish I'd love to see coma. I'm seeing. I'd love to see her. Yeah. Picture of mom and dad.

1:01:04 And I know her as well or m uh better than most. Yeah. But I would love to see that side of her. I would. So this notion of what'd you say, glass box? Glass box versus black box. Black box. Uh. Hey.

1:01:17 Uh I'm on here for a reason. I just, you know, it's like I'm out of any excuse. Look, you are who you are. And uh let it let it all out there. And I think People I I I I think we claim we long for authenticity. I still mostly believe that. Sometimes I question that.

1:01:35 'Cause people want you to be your authentic self, but they're like, Well, don't swear as much, or be your authentic self, but don't be so emotional or be your authentic self, but there's a but Uh but I think at the end of the day, I think we're we've crossed that. I think we're on the other side. People just want more. Of you. Regardless of what it is. Because even the crazy thing I I I observe about Trump is

1:01:57 Even the imperfect things he says that would once upon a time have revolted some people and would have had adverse reactions. The fact that he's willing to say them creates the impression in my mind. That I know who he is. Yeah. And

1:02:12 You don't have to like someone, but if you trust that you know who they are. Then you feel I think safer in predicting what they'll do. Totally. Now if I don't see Kamala sat on Joe Rogan or some some someone like this getting to know her unfiltered, you know, you your team didn't tell me there's your team didn't give me any parameters. They didn't say you can't ask him about this, don't talk about this. There was no parameters. At least people will know who you are.

1:02:35 Yeah. And I think most people don't. They see me as sort of in a slick guy that, you know, was like they think I was grew up in it with a trust fund. Everything was handed to'em. People don't know my entrepreneurial background. I don't think they they they they they believe what they they may have seen on Fox News out here or so, you know, one American news. And the weaponization of that. And so You know, he I just it's critical. I think for our party generally, I think for both parties now, just you've just got to get out of that bubble. I give Trump to your point credit in that respect in every way, shape, or form.

1:03:05 criticize him for many things. He can't criticize him for accessibility, uh, for at least appearing to be authentic. in terms of his approach, his willingness to confront and engage. And I I think that's very refreshing. How do you think America's doing? I think we're struggling. Our identity.

1:03:21 I think we're um You know, Trump has made it. Made us feel free to shove again. It's not our Better.

1:03:28 Self. Um you know, the the sort of John Meetcham. language, you know, the soul of America is is is is struggling. And I really worry about our institutions. I worry about our democracy. I worry about Neighbors turning on neighbors. Uh people forgetting the universal truths that we all want to be loved. We all need to be loved. I talked about

1:03:48 Everybody needing to be connected. We also need to be respected. And I think people are talking down to each other, talking past each other. It's again why I want platform people I disagree with, El and Newt Gingrich on former speaker Gingrich, who led my recall effort against me. You know I just I'm trying to Just find some balance in that respect because you know. They're good people that vehemently disagree with us.

1:04:09 Uh I don't know that it benefits any of us to uh to demean or belittle folks. That's my thing with Trump. attacks vulnerable communities. My mom Her what her real

1:04:20 Early indelible. inspiration for me in terms of one of those two, three jobs she had. It wasn't just working as a waitress and doing the bookkeeping. But she worked for aid to adoption of special kids with the debt family that had kids with Intellectual and physical. uh disabilities.

1:04:36 And I remember w spending time with these kids. And I hate bullies. I I mean forgive the word hate. I know I I just I Just like I hate bullies. I don't like people

1:04:46 demeaning other people. I don't like people scapegoating scapegoating vulnerable communities. My why is standing up for ideals and striking out against injustice. It defines nine out of ten things for me. Personal professional. Standing up for ideals, striking out against injustice. And it's just to me.

1:05:02 Unjust. To see people. Demeaned and belittled. And to use uh to see vulnerable communities used as pods. to talk about, you know, alligator whatever in in Florida and talk about immigrants and dem demeaning in uh ways and they have to zig and zag uh if they want to avoid getting

1:05:22 killed by an alligator or something or mocking people with disabilities. I that's where I that's where I get. That's where I stand. Firm. And uh right now my biggest fear you asked about how our where our country is.

1:05:34 I Feel like Trump has opened that overton window in a way. Uh that I very concerned. About our ability to get back.

1:05:43 To find our better humanity. Who does Trump care about? Himself, period, full stop. It's not complicated. He doesn't He doesn't care if he's the heel or the hero, as long as he's the star. It's

1:05:54 I mean it's and that's just anyone that spent time with him, I spent time with as much or more than any Democrat, certainly any democratic governor in the country, period, full stop. I did it through COVID, my f his first term and certainly even in the second term. And what surprised you? Nothing to surprise me now is that he's a very different guy than he was in the first term. He's uh There's no Limits now.

1:06:15 It's there's a megalomania there. Meglamalia. He feels no limits now. And you feel that. In every way. He can say and do whatever the hell he wants.

1:06:26 And there's no oversight, there's no advice and consent, there's no co equal branch of government. Speaker of our House of Representatives completely abdicated that. The question is, do the courts hold up? Or we the people. And uh I'll tell you that in in we're celebrating our two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the founding fathers, the best of the Roman Republic, Greek democracy, and And uh, you know, this notion of of of system of checks and balances, popular sovereignty and uh I think it's uh

1:06:52 It's on life support now, and I don't say that lightly. I say that very thoughtfully, and I say that as a guy. That's watched the president of the United States not send military in his first term. Or is the first six months anywhere in the world except to an American city. We have five thousand military in the streets of Los Angeles.

1:07:10 A war within. So I say this very soberly. And mindful of the moment we are in American history. Do you think he wants to see you fail? I think he wants to take me out and down at the same time I think he enjoys

1:07:25 the sparring with me. I think he um I think he thrives on it. I know he does'cause he calls you Gavin New Scum. Yes. But then meets with you privately. Yeah. And what are those meetings like? Uh unbelievably cordial, unbelievable. It drives people crazy when I say this, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it. Every time I have a conversation, including the the night before Federalize the National Guard.

1:07:47 We had an unbelievably good conversation. And we were going back and forth. He said, use this cell phone, keep keep calling me on this cell phone directly. You need anything, call me. You need anything, call me, which is an amazing final statement as I hung up, only to read eight hours later, uh that at new scum I read him the Riot Act, which he never did completely made. Hundred percent made it up. And then federalizes the guard. Um

1:08:10 It's uh It's a game, it's a show. It's a dangerous game. And it's a very exhausting show. And it's becoming derivative. And uh

1:08:20 And more dangerous. Shouldn't no. It shouldn't. Look, I used to have my beef with George W. Bush, George H. W. Bush, we'd we'd have our beef on the other side. uh Republicans certainly with Clinton or Obama or even Biden. Long for those days. University, I go in the office of Ronald Reagan's old office, Governor Ronald Reagan. That's my old office in as governor of California. I mean You know, his his last speech in the Oval Office's last speech was about the life force of new Americans, Lady Liberty's Torch.

1:08:51 are better angels. I mean, what happened to that Republican Party? Um and uh This is different. This is darkness. Really? Because I hear this every election cycle.

1:09:03 This is this is We're we're only six months in. Mm-hmm. The vandalization that he's done to this democracy and institutions? I mean eliminating oversight. I'm not just talking about a co equal branch of government.

1:09:16 What does that mean for the average person that doesn't make bumps? No, he's eliminated the inspector generals. auditing capacity. He's going after uh polit uh political opponents removing them from key positions of power and influence and putting in uh acolytes, putting out people uh that just do his bidding.

1:09:34 He's pushing the boundaries on the rule of law. He's threatening to recall not just people he disagrees with he wanted my arrest. Remember the president of the United States said Newsom should be arrested. They said on what grounds? He got elected.

1:09:47 Said he doesn't like the fact that his political enemy got elected. I mean he's not He doesn't say that lightly. And you know, w once the mind is stretched, it never goes back to its original form. So every time he does this.

1:09:59 He's sort of testing these boundaries. And This is what makes me more concerned. I'll give you a proof point. God is my witness. We're sitting here.

1:10:09 When we do this today on this podcast, we just I just read this morning. That Donald Trump was on the phone with the Texas. Legislature. And they're going through a redistricting thing to basically get five more seats for the midterms. Because they're likely to lose the midterms.

1:10:25 And Trump is like lose power unless They can change the districts. And rig the game. So he stays in power. Do you think he's gonna try and stay in power?

1:10:36 When people close to Donald Trump. When people close to Donald Trump son, the governor of California A hat that says Trump twenty twenty eight. They're not Being around.

1:10:49 They sent you a hat saying Trump twenty twenty eight. Twenty twenty eight. They're not screwing around. I sat in the oval office for ninety minutes with Donald Trump. First democratic governor to do that. And he was looked and he looked around and said, Hey, see he was behind you. I said I looked around the pictures on like F DR and I literally turn him like Oh, seriously? He goes, Yeah.

1:11:08 'Cause what do you think? Three terms, four terms? I said, Oh, come on. And then he just starts laughing. He's having fun. But again, he's throwing things out. He's yes, he's iterating. Do you think he would stay for a third, fourth time? I mean he I think still he's the guy that tried to wreck this country, try to light our democracy on fire. He said it was a it was a day of love, January sixth, so much so that he literally

1:11:34 As you know, pardoned everybody that participated in that melee. I mean That happened. Yeah. It is

1:11:41 Grounds. In and of itself. to question whether or not I'm overstating. Anything. First week in office.

1:11:49 It's it's I mean, this is shocking awe. We have people in masks. Going to car washes. without identifying and people are disappearing. in the streets of America today, thousands of people disappearing. on the streets of America today, based on what you look like, your skin color on the streets of America today, that's happening that is not normal.

1:12:11 And every day he's able to shape shift. And distract us to move someplace else. I've got a big announcement, huge announcement on Putin. I'll do major sanctions in fifty days. Really? I mean This ability to distract, it's serious. What lies underneath.

1:12:26 Is serious. And I don't think I'm exaggerating and I'm very, very cautious. when it comes to this kind of language because you're right. When you st you tend to say you know. Yeah.

1:12:40 Sure. Yeah, crying wolf here. Uh I don't think. Where overstating the seriousness uh uh that uh We have to push back the seriousness of purpose to which this moment needs to be met, that is.

1:12:52 Really? This is not just another, you know, president comes in, they do a bunch of changes, a bunch of executive orders, and then they they leave in three and a half years. He called the elections chief in Georgia and asked, I just need a few thousand votes. He wasn't joking about that. He was dead serious about that. And had they found that?

1:13:15 He would have rigged his own election. You serious? What more evidence do you need? He's quite literally they're so concerned about taking over the house now Democrats. Well on path to do it. They have to rig rig the game. And you think if they don't take back the House of Representatives? They won't move from some form of voter suppression the likes of which we've never seen in this country.

1:13:38 Threats of martial law? What do you think this whole experiment with 5,000 military, weeks and weeks and weeks, doing nothing, by the way? They're sitting in the armory. They're doing nothing. They're there for show, but he's pushing the boundaries of what They're capable of doing. Testing the courts and the constitution. That's for a larger purpose.

1:13:58 And I'm not trying to be You know. I'm not trying to be ma. It may not be Intentional purpose yet, but they'll

1:14:05 Place. An opportunity. To utilize The lessons learned here today. to extend their reach and power tomorrow. And I very much, yes, I worry about our democracy.

1:14:18 In three and a half years. And I worry about that election if they maintain their power. in the House of Representatives. I'm that deeply concerned. Dead serious. On the balance of probability, do you think it's likely Trump will stay try and stay in office in twenty twenty eight? On the balance of probability? No.

1:14:34 No, okay. But I can see a scenario. But not on the balance property. And that's on the basis of one thing, time of life. Oh okay. If he was sixty nine, not seventy nine? Look.

1:14:47 He uh this is the great grift. He he he did what he never did in the first term. He played in the margins. he was able to take advantage of his brand and his businesses and make a few bucks here and there, but not the money he's making now. I mean the crypto, everything he's doing. I mean I mean the kids now selling cell phones, the whole thing, monetizing everything, coming out with new brands and new plans I mean, he it He finally

1:15:12 is doing what he didn't do the first time is now is he's President of the United States, but now he's gonna make a fortune. So when he's no longer president, he'll have a four hundred million dollar plane that has a billion dollars of upgrades on it. That'll be donated to the foundation that he can use for the rest of his life, thank you to the Qataris. He will have billions and billions of dollars. He'll make the vast majority of his wealth. In just a few years as president of the United States. He will set himself up.

1:15:34 In that respect. He'll have hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of excess campaign cash that you'll be able to use for whatever luxurious lifestyle he ever needs. And I imagine that may satisfy him. as long as he gets his person in to replace them so they can continue that grift going forward.

1:15:52 The American people Elected him. They said that's our guy. That's why My party needs to own up to that.

1:15:59 And uh This is existential. We need to do better and we need to I'm uh that's correct. Are you fa are you faithful, hopeful that the Democratic Party are gonna wake up in time? Two

1:16:10 field a serious campaign that can compete with that very sort of dominant prevailing narrative. I think it it starts yesterday. It's Not about the guy got on the white horse to come save the day. It's not about twenty twenty eight. It's about the midterms, which we just talked about. It's also about what happens between now and the midterms. It's about the rule of law. It's about courts. It's about governors. It's about states. It's about mayors. It's about we the people, citizens. I mean it look, I was inspired in the No Kings Day. I mean you guys.

1:16:38 No, a little bit about Kings. I mean the No Kings Day, five million people showed up on Trump's birthday. That gave me hope. Which was a a sort of a protest against authoritarianism. Yeah, against yeah, it was look it You know it was Justice Brain I said, in a democracy the most important office is not office of president, governor, mayor, office of citizen. You're an entrepreneur. How do you think your party have done with appealing to entrepreneurs. You you preside over San Francisco, which is globally we think of as the center point of innovation and technology. Terrible. But I I think the perception is that the Democratic Party don't like entrepreneurs and the Republicans, it's the home of entrepreneurship. In fact, all of my friends that are entrepreneurs If if they were being honest in private

1:17:16 They would say that they lean towards the Republican Party as it relates to entrepreneurship. It's amazing, but you know it's interesting. Since nineteen eighty nine, the end of the Cold War. Yeah. In the United States of America there's been fifty two million jobs created. There have been three Republican administrations, three democratic administrations. So it's fair to say how'd we do? Republic administrations, Democratic administrations since nineteen eighty nine and then Cold War, the end of last year, fifty two million jobs.

1:17:40 And you'd say, well, it's maybe fifty-fifty, maybe Republicans on the basis of your entrepreneur friends. Republicans probably did sixty percent of those jobs were created. Well. Fifty. of the fifty two million were created under democratic administrations. One point nine million jobs created.

1:17:54 during Republican administrations. You look at the last three Republican presidents. They have one thing in common recessions. During the last administration under Joe Biden, created sixteen point six million jobs. And I know a lot of those were COVID. Jobs. But he blew past that after eighteen months.

1:18:11 He created eight times more jobs than the last three Republican administrations combined. But this economy does better. Job creation. thrives during democratic administration, but perception Is exactly what you said. Yes, so you you you gave me the logic. I know. But the brain isn't

1:18:28 Or you're taking it. Where where's the economy in this country? Why are we the fourth largest economy in the world? We have four of the top seven market cap companies in the world. NVIDIA just came with four trillion dollar market cap. We dominate thirty-two of the top fifty AI companies are right here in California. We dominate in every key industry. We're the biggest manufacturing state. We dominate naming industry. California dominates. So why entrepreneurs are the state? Well, entrepreneurs and pistol. Seventy one percent of the GDP in this country are blue metro counties. Elon left, he went to Texas He left and came right back. Where's Grok? Where's where's his R and D headquarters, world headquarters? Where are the vast majority of his jobs or SpaceX and and Tesla? He did that because he wanted to make a buck. So he can avoid capital gains and avoid income tax as he cashes out.

1:19:14 on 20 years of largesse by the taxpayers in California that created a regulatory environment that created the industry because of our vehicle emission standards and subsidized that industry with billions and billions of dollars of taxpayer money to make Elon rich. And then he turned his back so he didn't have to pay capital gains. Do you know I think And by the way, he's back. All his AI. Where's all his AI? It's in California. Where are all of his research and development folks all in California? Everything you said might be true.

1:19:42 And I don't know the details of it, so I can't comment on that. But again, perception. Come back to perception. I agree. When I In my you know o over in the UK when I watch the Democratic Party um attacking these really successful individuals. And and Biden attacking Elon Musk.

1:20:00 I'm not gonna go into the details of Elon Musk's and his imperfections of the business. He makes it easy to attack both parties or doesn't matter. But let's try let's just try and hit this point, which is the Democratic Party tend to be the ones who are criticizing the world's most successful people and saying that they're this and this and never pausing to say. Actually they did something good as well. And it's the lack of nuance for me where I go I can't I can't trust that these people are just pure evil.

1:20:28 I can't trust that they're just pure evil and only bad things, which is all I hear. But on the right side, you might hear the opposite. Where is the nuance here? Like, can you say something positive about Elon Musk? I've been there's been no bigger champion of Elon Musk for twenty years than I have. I've been his biggest supporter. In fact, I have one of the first Teslas right off the factory floor. I've been his biggest. promoter and supporter for decades and decades. So I've said that over and over and over again. Left politics around the world does seem to have a certain disdain

1:21:00 For successful entrepreneurs. So let's talk about that. It is the worst part of my party. I can't stand it. I do not begrudge other people's success. I ins I'm inspired by it. I admire it. We open this conversation up, all these heroes of mine. Mm-hmm.

1:21:13 And Richard Branson's a hero of mine. I love his success, I love his audacity, I love his ability to compete, I love his ability to promote great jobs, opportunity, wealth. I think it is a big problem in the Democratic Party. And we do not do enough to make this fundamental point.

1:21:29 You know, y that that you cannot be pro job and anti business, period. And we need to say that and we need to demonstrate that. Look, it drove me crazy. Half my friends were up there, like maybe not even half, a lot more than half. were up there with Donald Trump when he got sworn in. And the symbolism of that was He's

1:21:48 Got. The back. And they have his back of entrepreneurs. uh and dream makers in this country. Yeah. And I thought Jesus. I mean just that alone.

1:21:57 Where the hell was my party? Why aren't we making a case for entrepreneurs and and business leaders? Do you respect Elon? I was I've long respect him, but he's changed in the last Seven, eight years. He just has. And I say that with so many mutual friends universally saying that. In fact, I was one of the last to come around. I'm like, no, he's all right. Even after he left, quote unquote Tesla left.

1:22:18 Which they never did. They didn't change they didn't move a job. They just changed the corporate headquarters. He came back a few months later. You can go online and you can see a press conference I had when he moved his world R D headquarters back to California. And I praised Elon. And that wasn't that long ago. That was after quote unquote he left. The state of California. But

1:22:37 He's different now. Something's changed and uh And now of course That's been exposed across the spectrum. It's not just from a prism of left and right. But I've long admired him. He he created this entire market.

1:22:49 And he's 100% right about this big beautiful bill. He's 100 percent right that we're doubling down on stupid, and we're investing in the past as the rest of the world is leaping forward. China is going to clean our clock as it relates to electric vehicles. They're gonna clean our clock in terms of the future and dominate it because of some of what Donald Trump has just done and rolling back progress that was made over the last uh decade or so, particularly as it relates to what just occurred with the IRA and notably with the infrastructure bill that the the President of the United States previous president passed. So I agree with Him on a lot of things, but uh some character issues that I that I question. I use his name, I guess, because he's now so influential in this country, but he's also like a figurehead of like a certain you know of entrepreneurship and innovation. So he's and now he owns X as well, so the platform's so big. Under if you are ever to become president, how what's your attitude gonna be towards

1:23:38 Entrepreneurs like him. And how is that different to the democratic Celebrate a revere. They're entrepreneurialism. We celebrate them. We celebrate their contributions. Again, we don't

1:23:49 We don't I mean the idea That our party is branded. By begrudging. other people's success. It's devastating.

1:23:59 Two. I think the to the aspirations of what it means. I so much of what it means to be an American in California is the dream. It's attached to this notion of social mobility that there's a limitlessness in terms of being and doing anything. And so my job as governor And my job in any position would be to create the conditions where people feel included, feel seen, where they can live their lives back when I said earlier out loud, and we create the conditions where their success becomes inevitable or irresistible. And uh I think a lot of what leadership is is climate control, not in the sustainable sense. And it's no longer command and control. What I concern about now is the command and control of crony capitalism coming back.

1:24:40 into the United States of America because of Donald Trump. You gotta kiss the ring. You don't kiss the ring. It's gonna be punitive. You want an exemption on the tariffs, just make a call. Or rather, better yet, make a contribution. Maybe you make a contribution indirectly by buying some crypto.

1:24:54 And that contribution then? Gets the benefit. Maybe. You make a deal uh overseas on weapons and we'll take care of the golf course. Maybe we'll take care of the new two towers for the family.

1:25:05 That's what's happened under Trump in just six months to a degree never, it's unimaginable in the United States to see it at this scale in this uh this level. And uh and that's to me not free enterprise. I've just invested millions into this and become a co-owner of the company. It's a company called Ketone IQ. And the story is quite interesting. I started talking about ketosis on this podcast and the fact that I'm very low carb, very, very low sugar, and my body produces ketones, which have made me incredibly focused. Have improved my endurance, have improved my mood, and have made me more capable at doing what I do here. And because I was talking about it on the podcast, a couple of weeks later, These showed up on my desk in my HQ in London, these little shots. And oh my

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1:26:25 Is the world safer now? Under Trump than it was under Biden. There's nuance to that. I don't think it's a binary. I mean I think it's not a little bit more. In terms of w war and the probability of a a World War Three

1:26:38 I think it's more unpredictable. Than it's been Um I worry about Nuclear proliferation.

1:26:47 I worry about AI. Biden wasn't doing so well. When I watched that debate and he was struggling over his words and couldn't couldn't be coherent with sentences, I did I was his chief surrogate that night. So Chief Surrogate. Yeah. Meaning I was there representing the campaign to make it. Oh, so you were there. Uh for the other thing.

1:27:09 Uh and You go home. With a guy who brought you to the dance. And um You know, I um

1:27:16 I was proud to support him. Uh, but that was a that was a that was a difficult night. Did you realize in that m was it that the moment you realized that he wasn't right when he walked out on stage. Doing well. I was in the back. I'll never forget physically standing up. As I was watching. And going, Ooh, and I turn to my staff, I said something's off right when he walked on stage. Felt it.

1:27:36 It was the only time I saw that was um at a fundraiser here that he had after he had no sleep and I just we all just literally assumed it was just jet lag and he had flown back and forth in over a week back and forth to Europe twice and he had a late night. And um I thought Boy, he's just not On.

1:27:53 Like and that was in private, not just as public. uh comments with President Obama that night. There was a lot of talk rhetoric that there was an internal desire to overthrow him. around that time because you could see on TV he was struggling and in the polls and Donald Trump was reveling in it. And then I heard this narrative coming up that, you know, Nancy Plosi and the Democratic Party were having private conversations and telling him to step down and forcing him out.

1:28:16 All cards on the table a hundred percent truth. Is there any truth in that? Yeah. No, a lot of that was happening. I mean a lot of people were I mean, there was th there was a phone tree that lit up that night. There was a text tree, phone tree, email. Uh just blew up.

1:28:31 Thing. People are in panic. Total full. Fledged panic. Yeah and

1:28:37 And there was A need and desire. To know that he was okay and that this was momentary. Uh or discover there was something else, maybe had a cold, maybe there's some other issue.

1:28:48 And it led to Those kind of conversations that many have been made public. Many private. led to meetings with Democratic governors?

1:28:57 In the White House with the president? Uh around the table. Including me. Mm. What's your path? How are you feeling? Uh some honest back and forth with a few governors that

1:29:09 challenge them a little bit more than one would have expected with sort of protocol within the party. Um and um yeah, a real desire. Obviously. to turn the page and ultimately that manifested with a decision he made. Um and led to uh obviously.

1:29:24 Our nominee her his vice president. He was effectively Effectively pushed out. Of the party by pressure. Yeah, and because he wanted to continue, that was clear. He said that. Yeah, he believed he was the only one that could beat Donald Trump.

1:29:37 Yeah. Having beat him once. He was convinced he could do it again. He believed that his record of the lowest blayment, Hispanic unemployment, lowest unemployment for for women, the best economy in sixty years as it relates to jobs and GDP growth, uh inflation that was cooling from 9.1 and was moving in the right direction with the Chips and Science Act, with the infrastructure bill, the IRA, foreign or bipartisan bills, he felt the first time that's the first time that lowest uninsured rates. They felt like things directionally were moving despite the inflation scars.

1:30:05 And then he can make that case. He felt that he really did feel that way. We're going to step in potentially. Uh last minute. And y but I know in your head you must have been mulling and thinking about going back and forward about different possibilities and outcomes. Things were moving so quickly and there was so such little time. I saw your name mentioned all the time associated with stepping in to replace him. No, I was but I was also the one that was out there uh still campaigning for him after everyone else had had turned his back. But you must be in your head at night thinking

1:30:36 Things could change. Uh. You talked about what shaped me. Those moments. Um

1:30:44 When I say no daylight. When I say you know. I gotta make up for Disappointing this guy and myself. When I'm in, I'm in.

1:30:53 And I'll tell you the coin of the realm in politics is loyalty, period, full stop. Willie Brown taught me that. Um and Joe Biden. Um I was gonna have his back. So I I literally, I'm telling you, look me in the eye. Yeah, because I know it's cynical. Did not be able to do that. Thank you Along those lines.

1:31:09 After he dropped out? Those minutes later. And my cell phone blew up. I confess. that there were a number of people uh that uh

1:31:18 Wondered. Uh and I imagine. Uh you can you know, there were there were plenty of people. Sort of circling go. Well maybe And what were you thinking about?

1:31:27 I Once he dropped down. Um get in trouble for saying this because I haven't said it public. I was a little angry, I didn't get heads up. You didn't get a heads up the yeah. I was embarrassed. I was sitting with a group of people. I was and I was like My phone rang I was like,

1:31:43 Wow. So I was I was my first reaction, honestly, was like Jesus, man, I all this stuff I did for this guy, not even a heads up. And um First missed call, true story. I I I didn't even know it was unknown number. I didn't even look at it for about six hours and it was complex. She already made the call to me. Just a voicemail. Love to talk. So About what? Well she was running, so it's uh

1:32:07 You know, and uh a few hours later I put out a press release supporting her candidacy. What should the Democratic Party have done with the wisdom of hindsight in that moment instead of just putting Kamala straight in. All geniuses and hindsight. I don't know what you could have possibly done with just such a short runway. You had the the vice president of the United States, you had the apparatus that was built within the party, you had the legal ability for her. 'Cause it was the Biden Harris campaign to transfer a lot of that. Yeah. You had little time, you would have opened up to a circular firing squad and relates to the party. In hindsight.

1:32:40 It didn't work. What could you have done with the benefit of hindsight that might have worked. Yeah, I would've, coulda, shoulda. I don't live in that. I think but but I live where we where we were exploring a moment ago. Uh. And that is

1:32:53 in reflection more broadly of where the party is. Less the individuals. And I think that's our biggest mistake. We're so consumed by the individual. Identity politics. Yeah, but well, issues related identity politics probably, but it's not just the person. Oh okay. It's who we represent. And there's a word we didn't use earlier. But you used it. In relationship to Trump. Weakness versus strength.

1:33:17 And I'll tell you to me at the core. The end of the day. To me It's that distinction that perhaps says more things in more ways on more days about where our two parties are. Donald Trump

1:33:29 Exudes. Strangely. Strike. I think he's weakness masquerading a strength.

1:33:35 Weak For many, too many. And I remember Bill Clinton after shellacking, we got crushed in a midterm. And he said, given the choice. Bill Clinton said the American people always support strong And wrong.

1:33:49 Versus weak. And right. There's something about that. I think this notion of strength, I think it goes to young boys, I think it goes to Trump and Trumpism, what he sells, what he represents to people. I think in that distinction.

1:34:03 Maybe as a pathway for our party. And my last question before I get to the book, which is the question left by our last guest, is um There's a there's a high probability which which You know, I'm aware of that I'm sat with the future president of the United States. There's a probability, you know, even if it's a one percent probability, it's an extraordinary opportunity to ask you. Yeah, even if it's a one percent but I I've looked at the the odds before I walked out, so I know it's higher. Um Under you if I took that men in black little pen thing that erases memory and I erase my memory of the Democratic Party and I erase the memory of the Democratic Party for all of my audience watching, and you have a clean slate.

1:34:41 Mm. To redefine that party. And we don't we don't remember or we don't reflect on the past. And that party is coming up in two thousand twenty eight against the Republican MAGA centric party, maybe led by JD Vance. What is What is That proposition. I'm a young man, but not just for young men.

1:34:58 For everybody. What is the proposition you're putting forward? What does it sound like? Uh. And I don't want any of the political stuff going on. And

1:35:09 You can appreciate, I hope. That That I don't have The kind of answer that's worthy of that question. Mm-hmm.

1:35:17 Because it's a spectacular question. Yeah. The question that needs to be answered by whoever is running for president of the United States. And it needs to be done so Congruently. It can't be to your point bullshit. It can't be a pole tested focus group, bunch of words and Pablo. What is your heart? You have to feel it. In so many respects what you just what we just ended on.

1:35:39 I think this notion of the dream, I think this notion of of I think there's something about Why we're together. That is So The the intersection of entrepreneurialism?

1:35:50 Aspiration, inspiration. Growth. Opportunity. Inclusion. That is that that's that that begins to answer and flesh out.

1:36:01 Create an answer that fleshes out. Um, and it's in that space that I'm consumed. I'm consumed by contribution and service, this notion of service. Communitarianism. This notion that we're all better off, we're all better off.

1:36:14 I think public service should be. requirement. um national service. But it's in that space.

1:36:21 Uh that ultimately I think Um A an answer. uh will emerge. And there's lots of um It's funny'cause

1:36:30 It's politics, but it's more and more I've learned about it is this battle between like rationality and logic and then just emotion and uh perception, I guess. Exactly. So you talked about some of the great things the Democratic Party have done. But it's it's crazy how the headlines will be dominated by some issue around quote unquote woke ideology. And it almost becomes the case that people care they're more emotionally compelled by this idea that their kids in schools are being teet taught something. That is corrupting their mind versus how the economy is doing more jobs. I know. And it was it was it's and I think we struggled to recognize that.

1:37:04 How do you recognize that they were shape shifting CRT, E S G D A I, any of them three letters. I mean we were on our heels. We were on the receiving end of all this. We're constantly on the defense. We got I love what President Obama just said, he said, we gotta get more aggressive, get on the offense. I've been saying this for years. What does that mean? Meaning we've got to shape the narrative. Illusion rules, facts don't matter. You got these propaganda networks weaponizing grievance twenty-four-seven, and we're constantly responding. Uh two These these these these

1:37:32 Culture wars. And let me be specific on that. I think you know the the Governor of Utah said it best, never has so much attention been focused on so few. as it relates to the issue of trans athletes. He's hundred percent right. But there's also truism and it's part of, you know, part of Being in business. You're nothing but a mirror of your consistent thoughts. Whatever you focus on, you're gonna find more of.

1:37:53 And so if twenty four seven that's all that's coming from you, California, this gotta be like California crack up, everyone's leaving, worst place to do but everything else, you start to believe it, you start start to shape your conversation, then you start finding proof points. Oh, there's an encompass encampment. Oh, I just read about this crime down at the Walmart. And it's just it everyone's leaving because what'cause Elon left. Everyone so I I think Narrative matters, to your point. Trump understands that better than anybody. He repeats things over in in the you know the vernacular of my buddy Marshawn Lynch and over and over and over and over and over and over over over again. So I think flooding the zone in that respect, you are a master at it. I mean dealing with Jesus, seriously.

1:38:32 I mean of all people should hire you, my friend, uh, that understand Data and analytics, communication. How to target. Um broader message, values.

1:38:43 Brand strength. Um and how to sell. You gotta sell it. You mean we've sitting there talking about the Chips and Science Act. No one knows what the hell you're even talking about. We didn't sell what we were delivering. I think we have to rebrand it. Yeah. And we and it's also look, part of the answer to the question you asked earlier is also in, you know As a client others talk about, but abundance mindset. We've had the scarcity mindset, this sort of zero sum mindset.

1:39:06 And as an entrepreneur, you don't have like scarcity mindset. And I think as part of the bar uh brand building of our party, it's not just in terms of housing and issues related to what Ezra speaks in terms of abundance mindset, but it's that growth abundance mindset. And I think that's part of when I talk about the dream. I'm also saying this.

1:39:24 By the way, from the prison. Then no other governor can lay claim. You have the American dream and you have the California dream. There's no other state that's attached to a dream. And I think there's something evocative in that because that Yeah.

1:39:35 inspires a journey that we can be on. A journey that we can go on together. And so I'm I'm captured by the vernacular of the sixties. And Bobby Kennedy was my political hero, Sar Shriver and Kennedy. Everything about that. Solving for ignorance and poverty and disease and and this notion of going on a journey together. Th th that was what the moon was all about.

1:39:55 And and we can see ourselves on that journey. Right now. You know. Is the blue versus the red team.

1:40:03 Uh this is a war. uh that i within in this country. And I think whoever runs the next four years or three years. Um it's about stitching this back together and and going on a journey together. Uh yeah, because as I say all the time, divorce is not an option. There's just two of the things that sprung to mind as you're talking is I've always wondered in California, specifically in LA. I told you I moved here, just moved into my place yesterday, in fact. Um

1:40:25 I was in a CVS, I think it was. And I was trying to get some toothpaste. Horrible, right? Yeah, I couldn't believe it. I said to the team, this was like six months ago, I was like, I went to a CVF to get some toothpaste. And I've got to the toothpaste and it's in a cage. And I said to the lady there, I was like, Why is the toothpaste in a cage? And she she goes, Look. And she points down the aisle.

1:40:44 And there was a gentleman. Um homeless gentleman who was stuffing things in his sock. Yeah. And I thought, Fucking hell, like if I look over there, there's these mansions in the hills. And if I'm in the C VS, the toothpaste in a cage because the homeless people are stuffing things into their socks. Yeah.

1:41:02 Is that fixable? Yes. And what caused it? Well, and then now you're dealing with larger systemic issues that that go back decades and decades and the has have nots and and uh that goes to drug addiction and the I mean in the specific issues around homelessness and that gets to deep issues about mental health, behavioral health issues, affordability, housing crisis. But look is it fixable? Yes. Why does no one fix it?

1:41:26 It's being fixed. And progress is literally being made. We're seeing significant reductions back to back years in crime. We're seeing significant reductions in organized retail theft. We're seeing significant reductions, including just here in LA, and they announced 17 and a half percent decline over two years. The number of people out in the streets and sidewalks and unsheltered homeless. That was literally announced yesterday by the mayor. So there is progress in all these cases. So absolutely. You're gonna have to get these encampments off the stage. I'm done with it. It's exhausting. Clean them up. It's the job of a mayor. My job as mayor, former mayor of San Francisco. Uh do your job.

1:42:05 Clean'em up. People off the street. There's nothing there's stepping over people on the streets and sidewalks is not compassion. And so we have flooded the zones in terms of support and resources. Now it's about performance. Um I I have the the great honour of working with Prince William in the UK on a on a home homelessness initiative, so I know the complexities of it. And some people think of it as just a housing issue, but having spent time with people at risk of homelessness, I know it's a confidence issue, it's a mental health issue, it's a jobs issue. It's a pathways into employment issue. It's a very, very complicated issue. So that's actually blown my mind homewards have in terms of I mean I said all the time, shelter solve sleep.

1:42:39 Housing and supportive services solve homelessness. You've got to deal with the underlying reasons people are out in the streets and sidewalks in the first place. And so it's about this comprehensive integration integration of care, whole person care as we describe it. We've just gone through the most significant mental health performs in US history. We have flooded the zone. with more support twenty six thousand new units of behavior off housing. We are producing and procuring in the state of California in real time with zoning reforms so we can cite them, workforce development reforms, and we're reorganizing the integration around mental health and the silos and people with drug and alcohol addictions and the integration. And this is the source to me of so much of my real passion in terms of my day job and and you're gonna see real progress in this step. Well I did do some research beforehand and I can see that there's some really significant actions taken and they are nuanced and complex in their solution. So that's very, very encouraging. And it's encouraging to meet someone who understands the complexities of this problem because actually the narrative that will win out in an election cycle is going to be emotional. It's gonna be simple.

1:43:41 And so I think everybody should look out for emotional and simple answers and exclude them. Whenever you hear them. Um Last question before I ask you this one is um All the headlines at the moment are about Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah.

1:43:53 And uh the way that that's been handled really is the thing that I find so f fascinating because on the way into the the presidential office and into those some those big roles. There were certain promises made about the Epstein files and it would be released. And if you uh vote for me, then I will release these files and now There's nothing to see. Yeah.

1:44:12 Wha what what happened there? Well they lied they they lied to you then or they'll lied to you now, period. Someone lied. about this. They dangled this in order to get votes. And they lie to people, they use people.

1:44:24 And um and someone needs to be held to account. And And look I You know, I c I can be cynical about it, I can be very political about it and say it's interesting when Elon we brought up Elon, when Elon Musk tweets something out. Saying Trump's on the list. And a few days later.

1:44:41 There is no list. You can be cynical about that. It leads to some open ended questions. What would you have done if you were Trump in that situation? So say that you you'd been elected and the public demanding What would you have done? One thing is obvious. I I know Pam Bondi well. Uh the Attorney General.

1:44:58 Um we've known each other over the years. She doesn't move without Trump. If she's fired, she's the fall person because there's No question. She was directed by Trump.

1:45:10 To say what she said. She would not. Have. Period, full stop. Done something independent of the president on the Epstein files. So one has to acknowledge that.

1:45:22 So then it begs. Why? Well she Told. Not.

1:45:28 To release the files. Unless A, there's no files and they made it up the entire damn time, just like they made up Obama's birth certificate. Just like they make up. Most things most days. My humble position. I think that's very plausible.

1:45:43 It could be very simple. It's gonna be as simple as that. They started the conspiracy and up, they start it, they're covering their ass, and they're just like shit, we got caught. We we use this, we we sort of squeeze this out. We got everything we needed. We're in power. Or It's more insidious than that. And look, the one thing is just not even There's there's it's just

1:46:02 Simple. Truth. Epstein and Trump were close. They were. Wasn't just a few photographs.

1:46:08 They were close. That's a fact. Sorry, Donald. Just a fact. So

1:46:14 Look, I get why this outrageous folks. I think it's interesting. It's outraged some of the core base. Um I I I enjoy the hell out of it. I'm just I spoke that was my private voice out loud as a democrat.

1:46:28 And um yeah. I and I hope our party gins us up much more. If they would. If you get into office people are gonna say release the list.

1:46:38 I will commit to release the list, but what? Yeah. Yeah. Unless there's some national security secret here or something. And I know that leads to speculation about Masad and other speculation about was he on a foreign intelligence list and is there real implications to our national security? Why did he make all his money? I mean I've got enough problems with homelessness and housing in California to worry about Jeffrey Epstein, but hey They created this mess. Now they gotta clean it up. Governor, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for.

1:47:12 And the question left for you. Uh. Is What is it? Have you received a sign from beyond?

1:47:21 That's good. Uh in the spirit of Epstein and sort of conspiracies, I immediately go to Uh. Yeah, look. Um I don't know about that, but I I there's a spiritual aspect to me. Meaning I

1:47:35 I I'm a person of faith. I grew up Yeah. In the church. Went to Jesuit University.

1:47:41 I quote the Bible often. Many parts, one body. So I feel that connection. That I'm desperate for it.

1:47:52 The person who wrote the question, I'll tell you, give you a little bit of a clue. They're referring to A a late loved one that passed away. More specific. Yeah. Fascinating. I've never

1:48:03 You feel You feel people's presence. When you hear a song. You feel people's presence when you Yeah.

1:48:10 During season of the year and You know, I I I will say All right. I will say.

1:48:19 You've got me. Um And uh This was uncanny. My father

1:48:25 Passed away in his house. In San in San Francisco. I came after in this case. There was no assisted suicide, but It came right after. Um And visit him.

1:48:37 On Right outside the window was a peregrine falcon. Can't make this up. My father was passionate about peregrine Falcons. I've never seen a paragraph I've grew up in San Francisco in my life.

1:48:51 It was a peregrine Falcon, right on the balcony. Right after his death. My sister and I. Think that was the sign?

1:49:00 True story. There's my answer. Thank you. Thank you so much. I am I'm really encouraged by the example you're setting for so many reasons. Um, and I I the reason one of the biggest reasons that I'm super encouraged by the example you're setting is because you're doing what I've wished for so long.

1:49:20 So many people in your position, your political position would do, which is to speak to the other side, but also To get out there and to have conversations like this in this new medium of podcasting that is unfiltered, uncensored, and is long form. And I just I always longed to see that from the Democratic Party, but they've hidden behind and s sanitized messaging for so long, and you're bucking the trend. I was so happy when you sat down with Charlie Kirk.

1:49:46 Because those are the conversations I want to see. And actually being in the same room made me both realise that there's A lot you have in common. And also allowed me to compare the fundamental differences um in person. But also Um It's so wonderful to get to know you as a man.

1:50:02 And where you come from. I appreciate it. Because I because now I now I understand. I understand your motivations. I understand the decisions that I think you'd make. You know, going forward as president. And um it feels like a great honor for you to have given me this time, but also, as I said, for your team not to tell me you can't talk about this, you can't talk about that, and just to let me talk about whatever I wanted to talk about. So Um, thank you so much. And um thank you for having me in your your home state now of of of California. I'm I guess I'm a kind of a half semi resident or something. And um yeah, I'm gonna be watching with uh

1:50:34 With much um curiosity to see how it plays out and you you present a new vision for America. I highly recommend everybody goes and checks out your podcast as well. I'm gonna link it on the screen and below. This is Gavin Newsome, where you do exactly that. You sit with people and have these conversations that are so Unfortunately rare. um with people you often disagree with. It's a fantastic show and it always has me absolutely hooked. And um your book here as well, I'm gonna recommend because it really shaped how I think about your philosophy.

1:51:00 Um it's called Citizen Vilm. Um how to take the Town Square digital and reinvent government, which talks a lot about social media and the role it plays. Thank you so much, Kevin. It's been an honor. My honor. Thank you so much. Really grateful. Thank you so much for the time. Appreciate it. Just give me thirty seconds of your time.

1:51:18 Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us, and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here. Please join the twenty four percent of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm gonna make to you. I'm gonna do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're gonna deliver the guest that you want me to speak to, and we're gonna continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show.

1:51:55 Thank you.

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