Transcript

Advice Line with Susan Griffin-Black of EO Products

0:06 Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show. Who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you like help with. Alright, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Susan Griffin Black, founder of the personal care brand EO Products. Susan, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for having me. So good to see you guy. It is great to see you were uh first on the show back in twenty nineteen. Uh you came on to tell us the origin story of EO products and how you grew it from a ten gallon pot.

0:56 in a garage into a major natural personal care brand. And we will put a link to that episode, of course, as we always do, in the show notes. You should go check it out. It's really specially if you're interested not just in skincare products, but in learning how to take a brand from basically a farmer's market to a massive national brand. This is the story that you gotta listen to. Um Susan, I know that that, you know, today you are you're focused on on leading EO products and and continuing to grow the brand. Um can you kind of tell us a little bit about what you know we left off in twenty nineteen. We've of course kept in touch. You've kept in touch with our team, but for people who don't really know what's going on with EO, tell us a little bit about where you guys are today.

1:36 Well when we spoke in twenty nineteen You know, we had a Pretty clear growth plan and strategy and then Surprise.

1:47 Covid. I was on my way to our annual Natural Products Expo Trade Show in Anaheim. And As I was driving there, the sh trade show was canceled. Mm.

2:01 Whose partner is an ER doc and said Everybody's gotta come home now. And I remember it was like a Friday night. I woke up Saturday morning, we had a little retail store in downtown Mill Valley. And people were lined up around the block. Because

2:21 They wanted hand sanitizer. I mean, from what I understand, I mean you saw like a ten X surge, right, in hand sanitizer demand. Yes. During COVID and and thank you for sending me some to you did. That was so nice. Um, but of course as the demand fell, you know, you saw like a fifty percent drop in sales, and this was, of course, a challenge. Uh probably one of the

2:45 most challenging things you had to deal with. It really was, you know, we um because we'd been around for you know twenty five years I think people could have as much slack as they could and we worked together

3:00 It was very relationship based. A packaging company That we did maybe thirty thousand dollars worth of business prior to covet. We are on the hook for two million dollars. Wow. And I

3:17 Had to link in With the CEO. And Just explain our story and see if he would give us a promisory note. Oh for the next two years to

3:28 And work our way out of that, which they did. But it was It was that and dealing with the problem of You know, just Three times as much, five times as much inventory as we should have. And then also lay offs for the first time, you know, that was in your entire history.

3:48 Major, yeah. Yeah. Um I often come back to your episode because it it really and we've had versions of this on the show now. But it was so remarkable for p and for people haven't heard it, is that you started this company with your then husband Brad. Mm-hmm.

4:03 You divorced in the middle of building this company and the two of you decided To stay Running the business despite being divorced and despite going on and and and having new relationships. And it's a remarkable story because you together

4:20 Said, this is the best thing for the company. We're going to scale it together. I remember when we when I interviewed you just thinking, what an adult decision, like what a smart hard but smart decision that you and Brad made. Yeah,'cause often You've got partner. founder partners breakups that they're not married. They're just f they just are falling out.

4:40 And what you guys managed to do was just incredibly Hard but smart. I think it was smart, but and it was Good for the business and good for our family and good for our children. And you know, uh

4:55 When you're a founder entrepreneur, your business is kind of like another kid in some ways, right? So It was really the highest good in this situation. And I also wanna say for the record, you know, there were no other people involved and there was not like a betrayal. So

5:14 So I have to say that out loud because I've had this conversation over the years so many times and you know, people ask us all the time and We've been divorced for longer than we were married, you know? And we're we're family, you know. It's just How we are. Um well again, we will put a link to it in the show notes. It's a great episode.

5:33 Especially to understand founder dynamics, so I strongly recommend people check it out. Um, Susan, are you ready to take our first caller? I am. All right, let's bring our collar on. Hello, welcome to the advice line. You're on with Susan Griffin Black. Co founder of EO Products, please tell us your name, where you're calling from and a little bit about your business. Well, thank you. Hi, Guy. Hi, Susan. So honored to be here with you. Really love you both so much. Um, so I'm Dr. Ruchi Gupta. I live in Chicago, and my company is Yobi. And Yobi is a unique skin, scalp, and hair care line using our probiotic based natural ingredients. To protect that skin barrier. Wow, thanks for calling. Should I call you Dr. Gupta or No, call me Ruchi.

6:19 Thank you for calling in. So you are a doctor and and I'm assuming you're a German Or uh skin. What kind of doctor are you? So I'm actually a pediatrician. Uh, I'm a professor at Northwestern and Lurie Children's and I lead a research lab that studies eczema and food allergies.

6:39 So I'm assuming that's how the yeah, tell me how this idea came about. Well, it's very personal and um as fate would have it, our daughter was born with severe eczema. and cradle cap and I found myself using steroids and all these chemical filled products on her. So she became the inspiration for our research. We got a team of dermatologists, microbiologists together.

7:04 And we finally developed this formula that cleared her skin, then it worked for so many of our patients, and then We thought we really need to share this with the world. Yeah,'cause I mean, I think a lot of people listening have, you know, little eczema on a bit of skin and my way of dealing with it, if I can avoid scratching it, is to just not touch it and then it Just goes away. You know, sometimes it could take a week or two or more. But that's not ideal.

7:30 Yeah, so people talk about the microbiome and we think about it in the gut, right? A lot of people are taking probiotics, uh, but we don't think about it on the skin. And our skin contains, you know billions of bacteria, fungi, viruses, and they all live in this Harmony. Well when this Harmony gets disrupted, that's when your skin breaks down and you get that irritation, itching, and breakdown of the skin barrier. And so instead of you like having this urge to itch and just avoiding it, you know, being able to put something on that skin that helps rebalance it and support that barrier.

8:09 hopefully your itch will go away way faster. Um and so you decide to start a skin care line. Tell me how Where you sell it and and w yeah, a little bit about how you can get it and and how you're doing, how the business is doing. Sure. So we have five products. We have a scalp mask, a shampoo, conditioner, skin cream, and body oil.

8:28 And we're currently selling on our website, yobcare.com, and then we also sell on Amazon. We are starting to sell in more like businesses like spa, salons. Physicians Offices Medispa. And tell me a little bit about how the business is doing. Like how did you do in sales last year, for example?

8:48 Yes, last year uh we ended with about three hundred and thirty thousand and uh we are growing and we're hoping this year to Double or Little more than double that. Okay, before we dive in further, what is your question for us?

9:04 So my question um We started talking about it is where do we sell? Do we focus and double down on D to C or spread our focus and really get into these professional channels, spa's, doctors offices? All right, let's let's dive in. Susan, uh please uh

9:22 Please join the call here. So excited to meet you and did a little research on your website and I wish you were around when My kids were little, you know. There because there's a real need for

9:41 Products that work that are Not steroids and so You know, um I'm not an expert really at D to C because We've sort of chosen a different path to be in natural food stores.

9:56 And that can get quite pricey in its own right. Yeah. But I like spreading out distribution Because it all feeds back into D to C anyway, if you know And

10:10 It just gives you more exposure and more advocacy and more Accessibility. Well, and our products are for adults too, so Susan, I'd like to share. But and we thought about Whole Foods because I I know your story very well. And um we did talk to our local Whole Foods. Uh And to your point, you know, it's just the shelf space and the cost for being on shelves.

10:36 versus, you know, in offices where they're recommending you. So I'd love your thoughts. Well, I love offices that are recommending you. I I think that's Terrific. I guess it's how do you scale that? And how much effort it takes to scale that, right? With what sales force and

10:55 You know. Yeah, I yeah. I mean the the the challenge, I mean, as you know, is The customer acquisition costs. with D D C are just increasingly getting they're just getting higher and higher, right? But it sounds like I mean by the way, what what's the the repeat purchases uh um to the website?

11:12 Yeah, about forty percent. Amazing. I mean that's really great, right? So you ha you already you really want to double down On your existing um customer base, because that's really where the where you've got that long term value. I think that you want to continue the D to C, for sure. Um But you also wanna focus on the other side, which is your story and the trust that is embedded in

11:36 this product. I mean I I think about orgain. We had an episode on orgain a couple of years ago. And Andrew Abraham is a doctor, right? And he He as a young man, he had cancer and he was fed, you know, those like shakes to gain weight and they were horrible. And so he wanted to make a natural better version of that and that's how he created or gain. And that's the story he tells on that packaging. I think that you could literally put your picture on there and say, I created this for my daughter, you know, in a research lab, because your story is so compelling and that's what you're selling. That's your asset. It's trust. It's not just the product. And so I think that

12:14 You really you know, while you continue D to C, you really want to see if you can get this into the hands of dermatologists and pediatricians and m medispa and you know, salons because That's it's about discoverability. And I would start in your area, like you're in Chicago.

12:35 The Chicago area, I would really focus building it out there first,'cause it uh to to build it out city by city is gonna be more expensive. Um but I think that's really where the Right now where you should put Your energy.

12:50 Okay. No, this is really helpful and that's we were thinking about that. Let's start Chicago, let's call every salon, every spa, every muddy spa, every head spa, all these cool things that are are starting to become popular. And then I'm trying to do yeah, I've I've heard all your not all probably, but most of your episodes and you know, your advice on, you know, getting yourself out there. So I'm trying to educate on social media and I I wanna You know, give sound information on eczema on skin, but on any health topics you know, to really I think that's my space, like you said. So appreciate it.

13:27 Yeah. I mean it's so authentic. You know, and I also really like what you said, Guy, about Local You know, we got all crazy in the beginning and we'd be running, you know.

13:40 You know, if you just get grounded kind of Where you are, who you know in the community. And take like you know A hundred and fifty mile radius to start. And then it sort of ripples from there.

13:54 Maybe, you know. Uh Mur's apothecary near you. You know, uh, Zidermers in New York. Air one.

14:04 You know, very high end. Personal, been around a long time. still really serving their customers in that particular way.

14:15 And a lot of testimony and a lot of like really good people. Will show up on that path. I totally agree. I mean, this is a huge market, right? I mean eczema it any kind of skin issues. I think probably it's huge number of people. And I think once people Discover it.

14:33 You also want to make it really easy for them to reorder. Are you using Q R codes yet at all? Yes. Okay. Great. Yeah, I think that's a great thing. Are you sending reminders to people um every couple of weeks or you know, hey, time to reorder or anything like that? And subscriptions also, you know, possible, right? Yes. We started subscriptions on our website and Amazon. And we do remind them if we don't see they've ordered and Three months we'll send him a hey. And I notice you have a blog on your site. Do you send that out to your um mailing list?

15:08 The articles. Oh, I don't know if we now. I mean it's this free advice from a m a medical profession. This is really valuable information. I would take the blog entries and turn them into a uh monthly newsletter and just to have Just send it out to your customers and you're saying, Hey, tell a friend and we'll give you twenty five percent off your next order. It's a great idea. No, I really appreciate it. I mean, we're sending newsletters, but I'm trying to get more education out into the world. That's it. It's all about that. And don't and just give people free information that's useful. Don't ask for anything in return. Just give it to them. They will really this is what we do and this is the this is the

15:45 The secret of this show. We just give out. Information that we know is gonna be helpful for listeners. We don't ask for anything in return except for your your attention, which is actually asking a lot. But we don't ask you to give us money or anything. Just listen to the show. So I I would I would definitely think about that.

16:01 Yes, and guy all as doctors we like giving out free advice. Because we trust our doctors. That's our goal is to help and support. Yeah. Yeah. So giving away free education on Any of these topics, eczema, allergies, et cetera, is is my end goal. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Um the brand is called Yobi. Uh Doctor Gupta Thank you so much for calling in. Good luck. Thank you so much. So grateful. All right, we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back with another collar and another round of advice. Stay with us, I'm Guy Roz, and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and my guest today is Susan Griffin Black. She's the founder of the personal care brand EO Products, and we are taking your call and uh let's bring in our next call. Are you ready? Absolutely.

17:05 Welcome to the advice line you're on with Susan Griffin Black of EO Products. Uh please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business. Hi Guy and Susan. Uh, my name is Peter Andrews. I am based in San Francisco. And I'm the founder of Culture Wine Company. Which is an importer, distributor, and e commerce retailer focused exclusively on new wave South African wines. So the wineries that I work with are all practicing organic farming and minimal intervention winemaking.

17:33 They're all small family owned. Awesome, welcome to the show, Peter. So you bring in South African wines from these new wave Wine makers, tell me w and where do you distribute them? How do you where do you sell them? Yeah, so I have three channels that my business is licensed in. So I have a DTC website.

17:51 Culturewineco.com Where I ship to forty four states around the US. Uh, there's also a wine club like monthly subscription service. In there. Um, I direct distribute in California. And then I also I'm just started midway through last year branching into other states with distribution partners.

18:10 So I'm now in Tennessee Georgia and Washington State. I've been working on a few more now through hopefully before end of the year. Awesome. And have you been in wine for a long time? Yeah. So I've been in the food and beverage industry for my entire career. Um, started as a chef.

18:25 Made wine in Italy. I've worked in and opened and operated small bottle shops. And also worked in executive leadership for uh a local very kind of luxury Focused wine retailer, but we were grossing fifty million a year by the time I left.

18:40 Well. So how so you start you started this how long ago, this culture line company? Yeah, I only started it in twenty twenty three. Um, and it it really was spurred from a trip to South Africa. Mm-hmm. Um where You know, being in the industry, I can count on one hand how many times. A distributor has come to show me South African wine.

18:59 So I kind of took that as the quality Wasn't that high. And it took a visit on a holiday where my inspiration was Absolutely peaked.

19:09 And um because of that I I started the company. How is the business doing? I mean I we're hearing a lot of we've had wine small wine businesses call you know call into the show and he makes things, right? I mean I I live in California too, and it's been challenging to say the least for many wine makers. How did you guys do last year? Yeah, so

19:31 It's been growing steadily since I've got my first container to California. Which was only in November of twenty three. Uh we were up last year sixty percent. Wow. And year to date, we're up over a hundred and fifty percent. Amazing. Um

19:45 Gen Z and millennials are are definitely partaking. But they want experiences, they want to feel like they are seen in the product. And so I put on a wine festival here called Hellishennin. That's bringing together wine makers from not just South Africa, but California and France and even Australia this year. And I think

20:01 This kind of grassroots element of it and creating community within it is really working. And so I just kind of keep saying true north with that. that kind of marketing strategy. All right, before we bring in Susan, uh tell us your question. Yeah, so I'm not just trying to grow a business, but an entire category in South African wine.

20:20 So how would you suggest I allocate my time and resources between growing cultures wholesale and DTC businesses? While also increasing demand for South African wine more broadly. All right, Susan, I wanna bring you in. Any thoughts or questions that you might have for Peter? Yes, um

20:37 Can you just tell us a little bit about South African wines, like what was your sort of Aha moment when you were visiting That Prompted.

20:47 This Track. Yeah, yeah, totally. I feel like we need a whole bottle of Shannon Blanc to to go into this, but I think with South African wine.

20:55 It's the oldest of Uh the New World wine producing region so they'm making wine for almost four hundred years. But I think the best Quality. has been made in only in the last thirty since apartheid has ended.

21:09 And I think historically what we've seen come into the US has been kind of focused on the value category. And I think Especially in the last thirty years, you've seen the quality increase so dramatically. That now the marketing needs to change. The messaging needs to change.

21:24 And we need to have better storytelling about the incredible dynamic young winemakers that are taking hold of the industry. So that's where my focus is. I only I'm really trying to premiumize And change the narrative and make People realize whether that's trade or consumers. That South African wine is is world class and worthy of being in Michelin restaurants.

21:46 Great bottle lists and just Generally something you can drink. Yeah, and do the high end sommelier and restaurants and Just understand

21:57 anything about South African wine because it's been at the lower end, is it like sort of a bevmo product or a You know, where has it been traditionally at retail? Yeah, so I think traditionally the the Trying to sell wine nationally is very challenging, and usually that means the big guys get the most amount of representation.

22:17 But I think the big guys have looked at South Africa as a way to create like an inexpensive category. So now that I'm coming in and bringing these small artisan organic farms making like seriously good wine. I'm trying to get the best Somaliers and wine buyers to say, like, just give me twenty minutes of your time. Let me show you these wines and I promise once it's in the glass it'll deliver.

22:39 And it's been working. I've I've worked with several Michelin restaurants, Michelin Star restaurants here in the Bay Area and around California. And And they're selling the wine. My uh my California distribution channel has an eighty percent reorder rate. Eighty percent. Yeah. And that's and that's wholesale. It's that.

22:56 Okay, so eight is that is that eighty percent of your whole entire business is wholesale? Seventy percent of my business is coming from the California direct. Okay. And eighty percent of that reorders. Okay. And what what percentage of your business is direct to your website? So fi only fifteen percent.

23:13 Okay. Um Basically the way that I've used That channel to date is all the wholesale work that I'm doing. kinda funnels people into realizing I even exist. I haven't spent any money on digital advertising. I do have a pretty robust social media presence like through Instagram and I

23:29 Keep wanting to try to build that. But It's been entirely organic. Yeah. Um, so there's a lot of opportunity there. Um, but I've really just let All the work I'm doing wholesale kind of feed into the DTC side. And what's the tariff situation for you right now?

23:44 So Definitely a huge headwind. Um twenty twenty five, it was thirty percent. So it was the highest of all major wine producing nations. Mm-hmm. It's now reduced to ten percent. But

23:55 Now we have the the fun of a weakening dollar and rising fuel costs. So that's basically brought us back to square one. And I think that the real challenge with South African wine within that is There's not as much price elasticity. In regions like Burgundy or Champagne, there's kind of clout to it where you can say, Hey, I have to go up in price ten, fifteen, twenty percent. You just don't have that.

24:17 That type of ability yet with South Africa. So Margin pressure is definitely a real a real concern. You know, you're so well situated with your relationships from you know, your

24:29 Y your whole life of work. Yeah. My um My family was early in In the wine business in Paso Robles they made Small Vineyard, Windward Vineyard.

24:41 Burgundy and Pinot Noir, that's all they made. So I've heard about all of the ins and outs of this for a lot of my life and Really understand. the relationship piece of it. that you know, the people you know and that trust you

24:59 Will work with you and grow with you. And you're bringing something of quality, it seems very organic and natural that It'll work. I agree. You've been in this business a long time. You've got so many relationships and so many advantages. And I I mean, I'm assuming most of your sales are still in California, right? Yes. But

25:19 To me it's and you know this having been in the business so long, like There are strategic places where you really want to double down. I'm thinking Nashville. I'm thinking Austin, you know, um I'm thinking Chicago, uh not just New York. And San Francisco

25:34 But Charleston, like places where There really is um More of a An intentional I that word's overused, but intentional Conversations around

25:46 Food and wine. No, you're it's like you're speaking my language. I uh My goal, I think one of the biggest shortcomings with I even the primium South African wines that have been here. Those are very small producers.

25:57 And they're put into far too many states. There's not enough wine to satisfy those states, and then consumers don't know who they are. And so my goal is to be in a small set of states with distribution partners. That are cities like Charleston. Nashville.

26:14 Chicago. I wanna be able to go to those markets and Train the distributors, train the sales teams, and the somaliers and wine buyers. So To your point, I I just kicked off with my distributor in Tennessee.

26:28 Two weeks ago. And we sold a hundred cases of wine in three days. Amazing. You know, so it's there's so much potential in markets like that where it's just it's I think people don't think of it first like they would say New York, but you go there and there's incredible food scenes. I think what you're really w after is how do you

26:47 You you how do you create more demand for for South African wine, right? And Susan may have a different view. Uh, and again it's may just be of'cause of my age. But I really tend to only drink whites now because Reds are harder for me to drink, right? I love them.

27:03 But um and maybe your younger customers it doesn't matter. But if there was a way where you could really focus, like eight seventy percent of your inventory's whites, I just I feel like that's been happening for a while, I might be wrong. Yeah, so you're I mean you're speaking to a broader industry trend.

27:20 White wine is definitely outselling red wine these days. And it's partly why I started the wine festival. It only focuses on Shannon Blanc. Which is amazing, I mean, right? It can't get better than Shannon Blanc. And South Africa grows you know sixty percent of the world's Shenan now. So it's really become the homeland of it. So uh you're you're you're definitely very consistent with the industry trends there. Awesome. Susan, any last thoughts?

27:45 I love the idea of the white wine focus also because it really seems to be happening and then anything that's You know, more natural. And If they're growing regeneratively Then I would say make that

27:59 You know, just that word on labels and talking about it with customers because it really sort of exceeds the expectations of organic. that that would be a really good thing to focus on as well.'Cause that's a real differentiator. Yeah.

28:14 Definitely. I actually a couple of my estates are regenerative. growers. So you're yeah, definitely will highlight that more. All right, keep going. I hope we could we've been a little bit helpful, Peter. Um but sounds like you're on to something. I mean, um, especially as the broader industry is co uh has some headwind. So Congrats, good luck, and you know, keep us posted. All best, Peter. Thank you.

28:35 Culture Wine Company, check it out. Um we're gonna take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to the advice line. Right here on how I built this lab. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Roz, and today I'm taking your calls with EO Products founder Susan Griffin Black. So Susan, let's go to our final Caller. Uh welcome to the advice line. You are on with Susan Griffin Black. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

29:18 Hi Guy Hi Susan. My name is Dominic Windham Giddens and I'm calling you from the beautiful Caribbean island of Barbados. I'm the co founder of Windham's Bajing Coffee Roasters and Cane Dog Coffee. We're a specialty coffee roaster where we're focusing on crafting coffees. With vibrancy, flavor From our island experience and we want to become an international Bajan coffee brand. Wow. Okay, welcome to the show, uh, Dominic. And Cane Dog Coffee, is that your dog?

29:48 King dog coffee is my dog, yes, my dog uh the mascot is my dog Macchiato, Mac for short. And and I'm s assuming cane is the sugarcane, right? Sugarcane, yeah. So cane dog is technically the term for a stray. An animal that's born in the cane fields. Uh they're friendly, they're scrappy. Regretfully, it's uh it's a negative. I found macchiato on the side of a cart road or a or a track road, you would call it. He came up to us, I saw him, I l saw his beautiful eyes.

30:21 Yeah. And now he lives a pretty good life. I bet. And he's given us he's our spirit guide and helping us. Pushing uh our coffee around the world. I love okay, so when did you start this business, Dominic? We've been in this business for twenty five years. All I've ever done is in Barbados completely. I started when I was twenty two with my wife. My wife is actually our CEO. And so we've been to married and in business together for twenty five years. Are you a lifelong Barbadian? I'm Bayan. I was born, raised, and educated in Barbados. Wow, amazing. Okay, so you've got this coffee brand. Tell me a little bit about where you're selling it.

31:01 So We sell it everywhere. That's just the truth. We're all Barbados. Everywhere in Barbados. We're a small tiny island. So that's we've we've primarily focused on Horeca hotels, restaurants, and cafes. We have a little high end tourism. You then go to offices, then you go to supermarkets, you go to gift shops, you go to Little b what we what you will call a bodega, a little rum shop. Wherever you can find someone who's gonna buy your product, we sell it to. So you're everywhere in Barbados and g how are you how what are you what are you generating a year in in sales?

31:34 We just this year hit about two million US dollars. Got it. Okay, and are your margins pretty good? The margins are good, barbarous is an expensive country to live in and work in. Yeah. on average organically ten percent every year. And we have

31:55 We're breaking out. We do actually sell direct to consumer in the US, UK, and Canada. We've shipped as far as China. People find us, they love us, and they keep on buying and again and again and again. All right, and you're also selling I think emission direct to consumer too, right? So what percentage of your sales are through your website? Well we yeah, so we started off as a food service company, so That is the bulk of sales. We're eighty percent. Hotels, restaurants, and cafes.

32:24 We then get into supermarkets, they're not there's only two supermarket chains in Barbados. And so we are competing with a lot of international brands. You can't because of our tourism is high end, there's every international brand you could think of has come. The benefit is Because of that we're actually able to create and craft a product.

32:44 that is of international standard and even better. We have now won twenty five awards in the UK for our products. А не гев здесь want to say, can we push further? I m we used to import. Italian espresso into Barbados. It's how I learnt everything that I know.

33:03 But I'm importing an alien culture to my island. So why can't I do the reverse? Got it. And the idea is you want to turn this into a a brand beyond Barbados. Um actually what's your question for us before we we uh Well, I guess because in Susan is very important, as I said, Mandy my wife and I have been running this company and we bootstrapped from the very beginning. Your story is very interesting, how you never took on investors. You

33:30 I think you failed forward sometimes. You were always on the brink of failing. And that's sometimes that's how happens with entrepreneurs, is what happens. The challenge I have is I am Based on an island. Everything that I do costs three times more. Just like I have to get to go to a trade show, I have to get on a plane. I can't drive to the next island or to the next country. How do you think I could scale my company?

33:57 Internationally. While still being based in Barbados. Interesting dilemma. Uh Susan, I have some thoughts. I'm happy to start. I would love to to hear Your thoughts or any questions you might have for Dominic?

34:10 This is a great one, really. Um my question is like where is the closest marketplace with the most potential. That is a great question. The closest marketplace will be the United States. Or the UK. Um the reason why we've always focused on the UK is because historically Barbados

34:32 We're colonized by the UK and we were like a Jew. We were actually known as Little England until we became both independent, but now a republic a couple of years ago. And the majority of our tourism, sixty percent, are UK based. The United States obviously is the Bohemuth. It is the powerhouse that buys everything. And can you can you tell which part of the United States or is it It's all over Um I we do actually have what if I would say Maryland, funny enough, Maryland works because we have one person who's been buying three kilos of our coffee since two thousand and seventeen every three months. So a couple things, right? Sure.

35:10 We did an episode um on Sun Bom, the Sun Tan lotion many years ago, and Uh it was created by a guy in Michigan. Okay, who's gonna buy Suntan lotion from a guy who lives in Michigan? Well, he very smartly started by selling these in boutiques in Hawaii because he knew that affluent travelers went to Hawaii, they need Sun Tan lotion, they would try it and then they would go back home and eventually uh they would see this product and it would evoke those memories.

35:39 The challenge you have, and I think it's solvable is Kane Dog says nothing about Barbados. I mean you have a great story Caribbean. It's Hospitality, warmth, music, culture. Sunshine. I don't see that in your branding, and I wonder if you can

35:58 Because it's like you know, there's a famous um this idea called the Provenceal Paradox. I'm just quoting it because it've it's very funny. It's the idea that people go to Provence And they're sitting on a a balcony somewhere and they're drinking the the rose that they're being served, and they're like, Wow, this is now I'm in Provence drinking this rose. It doesn't even matter what it is, but it's it's the pink wine, and they go home and they bring a case of it home and then they order it. Бизів, а й філлак. that's what you want to tap into. Like Hey, you you can have this island experience.

36:32 At home. With your coffee. Right? You know what I'm saying? Fully agree. The reason why we went to Kane Dog, though, is also because I it started off as a sub brand. It was a to us, it was not our main product.

36:45 But here's the thing. We A B testet it at trade shows. Everyone loves the name cane dog. I don't know why, the name just resonates with people. I mean even something like Premium Caribbean coffee.

36:59 On the front. Like you want to think about your brand As like a premium brand. Like I don't think there's a single brand that people know of as a Caribbean coffee. I I really feel like you wanna

37:13 Really lean into that. I totally agree with Guy. Doesn't everyone want that T shirt? Doesn't everyone want that, you know? Yeah. Mug. And that artwork and that branding and that like does carry the day.

37:30 And It's authentic. You know, I m it is the real story, and then that story travels. And especially for the people who Have stayed there and br wanna bring something back with them because you just recreate that experience when you have a coffee. So

37:49 It that is a strong point. Understandfully. Yeah. Here's the thing, because you want you want to get this in the hands of Americans, in the hands of people in the UK, big markets. Very, very hard to do quickly. But you have an opportunity, I would say Take Kane Dog and start it and make sure if you're not already there, to be in every single island. Martinique and and Saint Vincent and Guadeloupe and Montserrat and And Gilla and all the British Virgin Islands make sure that

38:16 That logo, that look, there's stickers, the coffee, it's all over the Caribbean islands first And then you sort of prove the concept and Because and so um Are you the only Caribbean

38:36 Coffee company? No, um I we're we're not the only one. I think we're the only one with so many uh great taste awards. I think the challenge is the real challenge is it's actually it's cheaper and easier for me to send goods to United States, the UK, and Europe. And to get it to an island that's thirty minutes next to us. Purely because of um trade treaties and all that. We can't get our products into the other islands, even though we're meant to be part of a

39:03 Group. they don't really work in that way. United States is a massive market, that's the thing, but it's that's the point. It's too almost too big. And so it's like where would you say, especially as

39:15 where you were able to go f maybe from door to door. I've completed that stage. I now need to say, Okay, how do I take this leap from This little island. And where would you start, I guess? If you were me.

39:28 I think that's the right thing. Where would you start if I wanted to break the United States. Exactly. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go find him. Yeah. I I think it all depends on what kind of regional grosser you can get in with. Right. So so maybe that could be your approach. And and let's say you got into H E B, then you'd go to Texas and you'd say okay, we're gonna try to get into one H E B and hopeful we're gonna go e eventually get to forty of them or how however many they have in Texas. But there are these regional grocery chains and I would think about it that way before you say all right, I'm gonna start in New York, or I'm gonna start in South Florida, or I'm gonna go to Maryland. I would start by

40:06 Trying to identify and pitch different small regional groceries and see Which one is gonna give you a shot? And focus on that market first. Book a two week long trip to the US

40:19 And you go and you sell the hell out of this to any buyer you can. You give'em this coffee and you say this is what you're about to drink is gonna blow your mind. And maybe Maybe you'll hit, maybe one of'em will say, Okay, let's give you a shot. Maybe what I can do is take one of my hotel clients and say

40:36 Send me to one of your hotels in the United States and let me sell coffee. Absolutely. Alright, Dominic, the brand is called Kane Dog Coffee. Good luck. Good luck, good luck. Yeah, best we'll be looking. By season. Yes. Thank you, thank you. All right.

40:52 Cane Dog Coffee See, it sounds like I've had twenty Cups of coffee this this today on this show, Susan. I'm all wired up. Um Susan Thank you so much for coming on the show. Before I let you go though I wanna ask you this question, which is because you started this brand, right? And you have now all of this experience because you've been doing this for, you know

41:12 few decades. If you could go back to you and you started out. Right, when you started this out. Um And you could say, Susan? You need to know this'cause I'm coming from the future.

41:23 What would you tell yourself? I think um Really understanding So Who you are as a person and what's important.

41:33 informs so much of and so many of our choices. This idea of Starting locally. And really, really engaging with people that you know. And you take that first hundred miles and you really go

41:48 hard and strong and see what you learn and who you learn from and all of that. That is a great foundation and base to start from. without driving yourself crazy to be in this market or that market or that because those markets will always be there. And you know, relationships rule the day. Yeah, for sure.

42:09 Um, Susan, thank you so much for coming on the show again. Thanks for having me. It's Susan Griffin Black, co founder of EOPX. And by the way, if you haven't heard Susan's original episode, as I mentioned, you've got to go back and check it out. We'll put a link to it in the show notes. Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at guy.com or on Substack.

42:35 And of course, if you are working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing, because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com. Or call us at 1800-433-1298. Leave a message there, and make sure to tell us how to reach you, and we'll put all of this information in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Casey Herman with music composed by Ramteen Arabli. It was edited by John Isabella and our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez. Our production team at How I Built This also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Sam Paulson, Chris Massini, Elaine Coates, JC Howard, Catherine Seifer, Carrie Thomson, and Neva Grant.

43:25 I'm Guy Roz, and you've been listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.