Jürgen Klopp: Would You Go Back To Manage LFC...? The Real Reason I Fell In Love With Liverpool!

0:00 It was an intense time. We had to win football games, but all the rest was on my plate as well. I need a break. And you cannot do that in that business. You cannot say, Give me a year, see you later. So it begs the question, Do you think you could ever go back and manage Liverpool again? It's possible. So what would it take?

0:24 Okay. You change the club, you change the city. You arrived at a time when clubs were in a period of dysfunction to bring that club back to its glory. And you did that over and over and over again. Now to win in a very decisive moment you have to be the best team, and to be the best team Everybody has to buy into their team and walk through fire together. How do I get people to walk through fire? I better go back to the start. Growing up. My mom was very caring. She loved people and my dad had expectations. The problem was I was absolutely useless in most of the things, even with football. My teammates were better than me. And I thought I only can get on that level if from the first until last minute I was a warrior on the pitch, but it made me the guy I am today.

1:06 And so my team plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band because you have ninety minutes and there's no guarantee to get anything. But the only chance to get something is to give you all. So do you want to have the maximum success? Don't waste time with holding back. I wanna know why Manchester United didn't know and tried. But there are some reasons in that conversation which I didn't like. Arnie Slot coming in after you and didn't change much. That's super smart. Not changing much, and all of a sudden you win the league by some distance. But this year Liverpool have spent what 450 odd million. You never had a transfer window like that. Nobody ever told me that it's possible that we can spend that. You seem to always be successful. How does someone succeed you? Wanna be able to become the best team in England, you need to

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2:45 To understand you and the man and the anomaly that you went on to be in your career and still are. What do I need to understand about Your very earliest context, where you came from. And how can you point out to me how that very early context created the person you are Today and that everybody knows you to be.

3:05 I think we all are who we are because the environment we we grew up. My dog boss a salesman. And my mom from a family My grandpa had a brewery

3:17 And she worked there, blah ba, and all this kind of thing. So but her only purpose was Her kids. She loved me More than My own life, definitely.

3:27 And my dad had expectations. He loved me as well, but he had expectation when my mom didn't. So my mom was just happy that I was there and my dad had always Something Um where he was not really happy with and all the things my dad wanted me to do.

3:42 I love doing. So he wanted me to to to to be a sports guy. Each sport, tennis, skiing, football, that was his life. So he wondered that his son is good at that. And I love doing it. If I would have been, I don't know, sitting at home and and drawing or whatever, he would every day take me out and say, Go outside and and and play something. But then

4:05 Pretty quick. When I became better, it was never good enough. So that was the process. So that's how I was brought up. Yeah, it's him. That's definitely Yeah. Can I keep these pictures of the Because I have them um but I'm not sure where.

4:24 Yeah, exactly. Good looking guy, yeah. Was he a tough tough man? It's not long ago. I never got hit by whatever, never, never, never. It was just he wanted to to bring the best out of me. I think that was what he wanted.

4:41 Tough in a way. Yeah. How people who are brought up in in that time probably, but not tough. endless that you thought uh do you don't want to have to do anything with him. No no no I loved him to bit. And he loved me. Was very proud. But never s never said it and these kind of things, so

4:58 Was he was a good guy. A really good guy, but With his son he wanted him to be ambitious and was a bit afraid that I might be not ambitious enough. So competitive man I hear. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

5:12 Reading about stories of um him racing you on ski slopes and And sprint races and never letting you win. That's true. Who knows if it was right, probably it was right. I I don't know, it was not nice in a way when you tell the story, it's like my God, come on, let the poor boy win or whatever. But it had no chance. It's just you stand on the touchline And you're on to the halfway line.

5:34 And when you and when you look back over the the the course of your career, are there moments where you have flashback to lessons that he taught you, or principles or values that he taught you? But you think Gosh, I got that from my dad. The ones kill. I I realized that my dad had, without knowing that time it was a skill, he could speak publicly.

5:54 You don't know that you have that, but I have it. Today I know it. I d I don't care if a camera is in my face or whatever, I say what I have to say in that moment, um without Being too worried. What might people think about it if I'm convinced it's right and I I say talking in public is not a problem, it's probably from him. My law for people. Unintentionally, it's from my mom.

6:19 So this makes of a very confident and a very caring very confident dad and very caring mom. Yeah. It's where I was brought up in the middle of it. And you wanted to be a doctor before before then. So you were aiming to be a doctor?

6:35 That didn't work out. Yeah. That's true. Why why why doctor? It's no, it was always it just something I wanted to do. So in all this f wonderful upbringing

6:46 It was pretty clear. The money is still an issue, not in a sense that we didn't have enough. We always had kind of enough, but I remember discussions, bad discussions about money. arguments if you want, who spent that, who spent that. I was the little one that just sat around and h listened to it. But there was a moment in my life when I when I realised I have to earn a lot of money and then I can sort it all. I want to earn money.

7:10 to not having This kind of discussions. Which My wife or with the kids or whatever. So it it grew as a as a as a thought when you are a young man and you think what could you do with life? And for me it was clear I cannot earn my money with football because in my mind I wasn't good enough. And then I got surprised by

7:31 Some people they thought, Oh There's something. Um that Could be interesting. As a football player.

7:40 What was it that they They saw in you as a young man'cause I've got all these wonderful photos of you. As a young player and Oh my god. So in my village I was the best player.

7:53 in my village. So I scored the goals, I was the fastest, all these kinds of physical talent. I was really fast later on when I studied sports science. I could jump far, I could jump high, all these kind of things. So it was a physical talent. The problem was um Small spaces. Technique. That was my problem. So What they saw probably is the attitude.

8:15 I was uh a warrior on the pitch. To get kick me o out of the game or get me out of the game. I was really focused. I had a really good attitude for the game. But I didn't see it. So I I was not I was

8:33 Was literally surprised. Bye. the approach from from professional football clubs. I didn't think oh who's coming, so it was like Uh the question was, are you number seven?

8:44 From the game before the yeah. Oh come on, let's have a chat. Do you want to come to Frankfurt? That was the question. It was before that. It is Seven.

8:55 And you were twenty years old at the time when you went to Frankfurt? Yeah. Well, I mean a lot happens in your twentieth year of life. Yeah. A lot happens.

9:03 Wow. Yeah, I came to Frankfurt. I It didn't take long, that I Matt Mark's Mom.

9:11 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your son's mom, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then um She got pregnant and

9:18 Um December eighty eight. I Became a father. Were you scared?

9:25 When he years old, become a father. Massively when I heard she's pregnant. I was I want to run away and go oh God. It's not me. So

9:35 The moment when I when I got aware of the fact that I will be a dead, I was really scared. Thirteenth of December. Of December nineteen eighty eight, when Mark was born. Was The night.

9:47 When I became an adult? And the night. Who changed my life. In the right. Direction.

9:55 From that moment on I was always more an adult than all the other people in the in my age group. So they've got the university, they were on parties I couldn't go. I went on holiday. I couldn't. I played football Low wages, third division Germany.

10:11 Had two other jobs. One in the morning, one at night. Um and playing semi professional football. That taught me the discipline I didn't.

10:22 have to learn at home because I had no no jobs to do in the house. So I caught it a bit later. But um It made me the guy I am today. Because of that experience, when you became A a manager yourself.

10:36 Putain become a bit of a re personal reference point to understand the individuals that you were managing because If you We're managing a twenty one year old dad. Versus a twenty one year old that didn't have

10:49 Kids. Did you understand them to be different? Mm. One is in your you know, in your own words, one is potentially a a man and an adult. Yeah. And one doesn't know what that is, yes. Yes, of course. I I I don't just want to say I like people. Then I'm super curious. Everybody has a story to tell, so I want to hear it. I think I think I asked that question in part'cause I heard stories that Sir Alex Ferguson would prefer players who had

11:11 A girlfriend or wife. And kids? Yeah. And I was I was wondering if there's any truth to that. If they have a different stability or Oh it's probably

11:21 Yeah. The couple of problems you can you can have a grade. Partner. Married or not, and then everything is fine. It's the wrong partners. It's not great.

11:32 Not great for some and you have too many. It's not great. So there are so many things in life so I d ever never I never thought about that. I heard about it, uh Coaches Germany, very s successful uh manager, Otto Rehagel. I love him to bits. Fantastic guy. He had as well he I think he said it once as well that he wants Um Married.

11:52 Yeah Yeah. That's not that's one part of Of the personality, but not the overwhelming or the the most decisive or whatever. So it's like you and you need on the football is a football, you need the cheeky but the the cheeky ones as well. So they need them. Street smart you need as well. They get out of situations

12:16 In life. And on the pitch, stuff like this. So it's a mix of everything. That's what I loved about football teams. I I treated them. Let me say fifty percent of the time.

12:28 Completely the same. And fifty percent. What he needs, what he needs, what he needs. But in front of the other tea of their teammates. So Why do you um treat me like that? You would have n would never say that to him.

12:43 No. Because he's from Argentina, grew up without a window and you are from Munich and everything was fine. You want me to treat you like him. Really? to bring all these people from different areas in the world together, you cannot expect that they all Tick the same way.

12:59 It's just not possible. Growing up in Germany is obviously different to growing up in Senegal. It is different. So but then we come together in our own dressing room and then everybody says, Oh, this is the rule. For all of you.

13:12 Oh yeah. Be and Time, of course, for easy. But then all the other stuff Come on, calm down. You want the we want a f a f um a football team

13:26 skill sets full of different talent, full of different personality. You want that because that's what you need. That what makes you unpredictable. But then you put just one I don't know, helmet over it and say, so That's for all of you. That's how we go. There are moments in the game where they have to act like that. In all the other in all the other moments they have to be themselves. So Freedom. Like that.

13:47 This is one of the most Sh shocking. Counterintuitive um ideas that I've That I that I heard.

13:55 From players with other managers, specifically because I've just interviewed so many of Sir Alex Ferguson's former players. One of the shocking things they all said was that he treated people differently. And to hear you say the same thing as well. It it It really is the opposite of what you hear in business. In business you hear that you have to be a consistent leader. That you have to be consistent, treat people the same.

14:15 Um but in the world of football People like you tell me. I think in business in life it's the same. So U to lead. That's one number one thing you lead yourself. So that's the first one. In the morning you stand up, you have to kick your own body and say, Come on.

14:32 It's not a great estate. But anyhow, we go. And then the people you lead you need to understand. Do it properly. So no. That means you you you talk to them, you listen to them, you ask them, Where are you from?

14:45 What's your background? What are we doing here and there? And why did you that and stuff like this. So it means it's already in that conversation, it's clear It's different. For the other guy. It's not about the rules like punctuality, la la early in, late out, not about these kind of things. But how can we get the best out of people if we treat them all the same? It's it's crazy. It's in business. I I don't think it is like that, but I've never I only worked in this football business, or maybe it's just working here. I cannot see that. For me it's super important. That you really

15:16 Pick the individual from where It stands. Not from where you want it. To be? No. Can you give me an example that I would know?

15:25 Uh Two people that you treated differently and why you made the decision to treat them differently based on their origin. So you have a young player as an example. So you you trend Alexander Allen comes up to the first team. So and then you ca then James Milner is already I don't know, thirty one or whatever, he how old ever he was at that time. So

15:45 Sure. So James makes clear first and foremost that Trent doesn't Go crazy. So because he sorts all these kinds of things. But there's so many things, but uh just as an example, but James doesn't have to do this and that because you know he is doing it anyway. So for for Trent you still have to educate the boy. This example, which you probably didn't think of, but it explains w how how different they are. They're different age groups. One is sixteen or seventeen and the other one is thirty three. So that shows already that's not possible.

16:13 So you are talking about the rules in football. So everybody has to work hard. Everybody has to do in my case, everybody has to defend the shit out of the opposition team. So that that's everybody has to buy into that. There's no no no no. I always said if If you're not Lionel Messi. You have to defend. You have you have to defend. So because I never had L Message, so they all had to defend.

16:40 For example, everybody has to do that. But then to get there that that that they That they're really Grow together as a group. In a group everybody accepts that they are different. Otherwise we are I don't know, an army. And and they are different. But it's not I mean just because we are the same shirt. We have all our own qualities. So and to that to bring them

17:03 to life. Yeah. You have to be to have to get treated in the right way. And that's what what I loved to figure out How is that how is that possible? That was the conversations I had. The conversation with players during a Season.

17:18 Of course there were football talks, but we had already enough meetings. The m the the most important conversations were the private conversations. Why are So when when the players not training well. Could be. Could. That he just is not ready for training. Had a drink last night, didn't sleep enough, but Or

17:36 You ask. So that's all what you think. Uh he looks like he didn't sleep enough, or uh bring him in, ask him. What's going on? And he will be surprised. Most of the time.

17:47 They either slept enough or didn't sleep enough for the right reason because something happened and nobody could sleep. Uh they had no drink, blah blah blah, but they lost focus right now because massive problems at home. You without asking will never find out. So here's the one guy with a problem. Here's another guy. He's flying. Don't treat them the same. The one needs more support than the other one you need to bring down a little bit. So all these kind of that's how you work with people. In the end, what you want is that it's the job of a leader is to make the target, the aim

18:19 The final destination, whatever, that clear, like the sun. That everybody's automatically going there and you don't have to push them every day and say by the way, there's the sun. That's run there. So that y that they they know it. On the way there You support them in different in different ways. It's not so important what I want to say.

18:39 in a moment of anger or whatever. It happens, emotion, do that to us, especially around a football game, if you shout something did I really say that did it. Did I I did. Yeah, but it's not so important in a talk conversation with people they which depend on you you're responsible for. It's not so important what you say, it's much more important what they need to hear. It's not them telling them what they want to hear, no, what they need to hear To deal with their situation.

19:06 So that's what leadership means. Not just telling them off for whatever, that doesn't work, that doesn't work. Try to understand why. And that was I I love that part in my job. And I still do that if you want, um right now. Not with world class players all the time, or coaches, point directors, whatever. They're all young.

19:28 um younger than me at least. And um That's how I understand. My role and understood my role. Was there certain players in your team that you felt you could be

19:39 And others that you felt you could never really be tough with because that would make That would hurt their performance. I'm reflecting. Of of course. Of course. You have them.

19:50 Sadio Mane and and and and Mosala too. top example. So In the end there are not a lot of people who saw it coming, we knew they are great. We knew they have massive talents, they have fantastic potential. But they were not who they became later on.

20:08 In that time. It's not that they came to Liverpool and said What just wanna tell you I defend anyway, so we don't have to talk about that. Just explain me how we do it. And we obviously to to be successful as a football team, you have to organize a football team to get stability. To get stability you need to find a way to defend properly and together. If you have that Based on that

20:32 they can start flying. Then we then let's talk about the football part. So and now there are obviously no defenders. But we were famous for our pressing and counterpressing, so I talked a lot to them and it was And the the way We spoke about it was just one hundred percent clear. You wanna win m more often.

20:49 No, do you want to have the maximum success, you wanna be able to become the best team in England at one point. Yeah? Okay, then do that. Come on. So

20:59 Agreement. We went on. But then with years and not because they change or whatever, here a little bit less, there a little bit less, and y I have to decide, do I go for them like I would go for a young boy playing in that position. Turned. run, fight, jump and take them off in a moment or No, of course not. You don't do that. In that moment.

21:23 It's a story in the newspaper. We had this one argument I think with Moard West Ham at the at a sideline when it didn't start and I brought him on and he was not happy. The problem our problems then are always in public. So it's not a real big thing, but in the moment we didn't agree. Definitely. So And how do you deal with that the next day? I club I think I can say

21:46 Um we have a very good relationship today. Um even though on that day it didn't look like um and that's all the things. So you learn You try to do it the right way, you try to show the players respect, but at one point It's never enough, and you have to accept that as well. Because

22:05 The players th they grow, they get bigger and bigger and bigger, and at one point you hear years later, he never spoke to me. Whatever another player from wherever s says about a former coach, about me, about Jose Mourinho. He never spoke to me. I think. Oh no, we spoke a lot.

22:22 We just can't remember and we didn't speak what you wanted. We didn't I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear, so you can never make it one hundred percent right. But You can only do as good as you. as it's possible for you and that's what I tried all the time to create a relationship. Yeah.

22:40 Even when we had arguments, we always found a way out. Yes. Me Player? And

22:47 It never. um got carried into the team. That I lost respect uh they lost respect for me because I acted that way. So we always stayed together. We always find a way that they understood okay. It's really important that we get through this, that they sort it, the boss sort it with him or the boss sort it with us. That we can

23:07 Go from here. Again. From a very young age, one of the things I found really surprising is in as I was going through all of these football teams you played in as a young man, it appeared that you were always the captain. repeatedly p uh assigned to be the captain. And I wondered why. What was it that you were doing?

23:25 From a very young age, that meant all of your coaches back then asked you to be captain of the team. I have no clue. The coach I learned the most of Wolfgang Frank. Um when he came back to Mainz, he was at Mainz. Um very successful spell left. And then we were in trouble again, he came back.

23:41 And I was the captain. And we had a very experienced player from a first division coming to mind in the second division, Lars Schmidt was his name. So and and Wolfgang So Young, can we talk? Yeah, of course.

23:55 Young I want to make the last the captain. Well yeah. Cool. So then you are not Captain Mr. Yeah.

24:01 Alors. So it was exactly like that. It meant nothing to me. So my role was not I was a leader in the team. Not. On purpose. I was on the pitch and aggressive leader, which I didn't like.

24:14 So hard rate above one hundred. Fourty. I lost it very often in a very, very not good way. So really aggressive talk. shouting at everybody and in all their uh really because I had to Very often I had to apologize to my teammates.

24:34 Where did that come from? I don't I don't know. There's real dichotomy with you because you're such a sweet, kind guy. You have your mother in you in terms of the empathy and the love of people. But then there's this other. Explosive power. I didn't like it at all. And I was afraid.

24:51 When I stop playing. Tell it. Then I take it. over so I was emotional. I was had moments where I lost it with referees and stuff like that. But Generally I'm I was really I'm a I'm a very calm person.

25:04 So people think because I'm probably I think I'm a motty weight or whatever, I do get up in the morning and come in the dressing room and say, Come on, boys, so there we go again and Not at all. I mean it happens. From time to time, but not that often. No, I have no explanation for it. If I would have had an explanation, it was a little bit I knew I'm not good enough. Actually, my my teammates were better than me. And I thought

25:29 I only can If I Squeeze everything out. On a from an aggressive point of view, stuff like this. So that was a bit my explanation because they're they are so much better. But if I calm down and want to play cool football

25:45 Yeah, I'm out. You eventually become the manager. Of mine's? Yeah. You're my age when you get that job. And the the former manager's been sacked.

25:54 The club have never Gotten to the Bundesliga. the the the first division in Germany. You don't have experience managing A club of this size or scale previously.

26:06 The chairman comes to you, the owner comes to you and says They want you to do the job. Why did they want you to do the job? Because I didn't find anybody else in the short in the short period of time, so we played Sunday and the next game was on Wednesday. The idea was Just to do that game. So

26:21 The the the whole story is That Eck hat Grautzone. um the manager at that time. He we we lost the game on Sunday.

26:31 Camp, a crisis camp, let me say, because on Wednesday was another very important game we had to play, so he took us to a hotel. That we stay there, have two good sessions, and then we go for this very, very important and maybe decisive game. And at night we have a meeting. A meeting uh with all the players and he said. Gentlemen, I wanna want to ask one question. I do you still

26:53 Trust me, are you still behind me? Uh I don't want to answer now. I order beer for all of you. I go out, half an hour I come back and you tell me. So he goes on.

27:04 We just bring some beer in, we sit there. Look at each other and think Mm-hmm. And discuss a little bit. And I was not captain that time. Yeah, I was not the captain. So but then

27:15 It's like that. That uh The decisions no. What? Yeah, he asked.

27:21 Why you ask everybody no. So and it's like we are now we have a discussion, yeah. The majority. Some people some players didn't speak, but the m it was clear If you ask, the answer is no. So

27:34 If I get I'm not captain. But the captain. Global you tell him. I tell him.

27:41 Why? Oh he comes in He comes in and And that Actually No.

27:52 And he was shocked. It was really shocked. He didn't expect that. It's it's more like a a little thing to do, and then we say, Yes, we go through that together, or something like that, but we said no. Why? Because he was not the right person. Why?

28:06 Because he we we played bad and we he was Ah, I love Eckhart Grautzen, but that time for that team Was really he was just not the right coach. That can happen. Mm doesn't say anything about you. Wrong training, wrong lineups, wrong tactics.

28:23 Wrong everything. So that's how things go bad in the wrong direction but in that time. And We had no b that time I mean have to make the decision, yeah, who can take over Oh that we just could say no. He could have said okay. I will prove you wrong or whatever, but he ran out.

28:40 And said, Tomorrow morning nine o'clock training. Uh okay. And then he wanted to do a press conference. Where he Tob Bullet wanted to tell the public that he

28:51 Kicks out all the experienced players and starts now the rest of the season and plays only the young kids. So I was one of the old bags. I was thirty three. Um But I didn't know that that should happen. So he called The sporting director, meaning a press conference.

29:07 And I wanna talk to them and tell them we change everything. And the spawn director says, Yeah, we do a press conference. But the subject will be be secur. Okay. So

29:19 Done? And all I didn't have a coach. So and then they called me and for that game, can you do it? And I said, Yeah, yeah. I can do it. And I did it and we won the game.

29:29 And they didn't find an a manager, so we had Sunday and other games we w the first game we won one nil, the second game one three one. Yeah. From the first seven games we won six and drew one. So and we stay in the league pretty comfortably. Comfortably is incredible. We were a bunch of friends. I they were all my friends and I was their boss. They had to tell me that they're changed from now on in the coach's dressing room. Yeah, but but what are you doing here?

29:55 Yeah, so coaches that's your office. Okay. The first night I think we had the twin room. So And it got one more game.

30:04 To sleep there with my friend you and Clumney there in the in the same room. And then next day they all told me, Yeah, yeah, you have a you get your own room. Oh. Okay. So but all the rest we were a real bunch of of friends. And they respected me from day from the first second. What was your approach going into that? You y you go from being a player to a manager of these boys. Like what

30:25 Wha what's in your mind? Are you thinking I'm just gonna let them do whatever they wanna do? I'm gonna But we had Wolfgang Franker very, very uh the best the best manager we all had when we were at Mainz. She was exceptional. Me At minds. But they're A football team who lost all the games when the other team had better players.

30:42 I think sounds normal. But you know, in football is a way. To to win games anyway. We never had that. So then Wolfgang Franken comes in and implement. Four in the back.

30:51 Ball oriented defending. We did nothing else than that. And be changed overnight. into the one opponent nobody wants to play against. We were like machines. We were like machines. We're not great football, we were like machines. Th there were games our goalkeeper didn't touch the ball once. We were just defending that was new that time, so it was really for all of them. That means we all became believer in that.

31:16 Then Wolfgang left. And none of the other coaches. Could do that. No. There was no connection to the coaches after Wolfgang.

31:24 Mm. So I was wanted to play us. who benefited massively from Wolfgang Frank and now I arrived and the only thing I did when I the the the two sessions I had were both exactly about that. Four for two ball oriented movements and be go for MSV Duisburg that time.

31:43 We go for them like nobody else. But I like these moments. I like to find a reason. Why it makes sense. That why we give our absolute all

31:53 In a moment like this. why we don't invest only the The minimum, why invest the maximum? Why we would regret it if you don't do it. How better life is if we do it.

32:05 how much more fun it is if we do I love I love these moments and probably something like that. I told them. And From that moment on, nobody wanted to play against us anymore. So like we've like

32:19 Wow. Animals. It was great. It was a fantastic time. Same team. Um Pretty much. Uh.

32:27 Changed overnight. So you fix the defensive situation, the formation. And you also told the players in that dressing room a story of why We had to give this

32:38 Give everything. Mm. Show the they they wrote us off, show the outside world, whatever you can do. Most of the time it was real life, but that time In my meetings later on. I never prepared in a way that I wrote something down or whatever.

32:54 our life was preparation. What happened during the week with us in the world. That was preparation for meeting. I never thought long about it, just remembered it and when I n when I needed it, we spoke. I I told the boys. But that time. They needed one person to believe in them. And I did.

33:13 It was not that I had to convince myself I have to tell them, no. Before that season I told in an interview This is the best squad Minds ever had. It be really difficult for me to play. But

33:27 Good for us that the team is so good. And then we were in an Yeah. Hopeless situation. before I took over. So I when I Became the manager.

33:36 I was the one who thought this team is incredible. Nobody knows it yet. But we will make sure. In a few weeks they will have a sense, at least. How point

33:48 Did that prove to be this idea of making sure that the players you have Throughout your career. Had belief in themselves. It's all about that. It's not football, it's life. You had no when you started your podcast, you people probably told you

34:04 Well, that might be something for you. But you are not sure. And then with each little thing here and there, oh How many people listen to your first podcast? Do you remember I think I read it somewhere.

34:17 Something around that. So It's a start. So it's a start and it and all the rest is if you want history, and that's always in life like that. That it's just Give it a chance. Yeah.

34:31 Of course it makes sense you believe in yourself, but Not everybody's gonna be able to do it can do that. So if but then if you meet somebody who helps you with that, who has a perspective, who can see Something in you. Then tell. Tell them.

34:45 Why you should keep it for yourself. Oh my God, I think he's a talent, she's a talent, whatever. Oh yeah, she's good at that, he's good at that. Yeah, but we don't tell each other, so Where's the problem? Did someone do that for you? told you that you should believe in yourself. They saw something in you. Once I said I never struggled with confidence, but I don't know why. That's the truth.

35:05 Uh, but it's true. I never struggle with confidence. There's no reason for it. My two best friends in school. A genius. And we sat together doing exactly this reading the same books, did the invest the same amount of time. They at the best A levels in school.

35:21 And I was far of that. So A normal reaction would be Pool. I'm a dump, obviously. But I never thought that.

35:31 And I don't really know why why why that happened. So um I took it how it was. I thought oh Respect. You up you can remember all these things? Crazy. I can't. Uh but you had lots of players that struggled with confidence. Yeah. Yeah.

35:45 I tried to create a situation. To make sure That The player if if they are not confident yet. They are confident.

35:56 But you know, it there are moments when they lose it confidence. It's like uh described it once as a little flower and constantly somebody steps on it. It's like that. Oh, and then it's growing again and oh now we are confident again stuff like this. In football it's really difficult because it's like you cannot play without making mistakes. So if a mistake costs you confident Uh that's r a real a real challenge. Um

36:18 But but I try to yeah. If you would believe as much in yourself as I do. That will be a start. But as long as you cannot do that just Trust me.

36:31 So You are Good because I don't work with Not with other play. I don't waste time. I don't that's well and it's true I don't.

36:39 So I really I really see something and if I see it I'm patient enough to Work on it? Um much more patient than the public. Wants me to be?

36:50 But of course the the the idea is that at one day I help you learn flying, but in the end you have to fly. Yourself, obviously. I cannot I cannot do that for you. That's what it is football. You have to perform alone. They cannot look at me. Mm-hmm. What shall I do?

37:06 And that's my job is to prepare them as good to make it. The education, the co the Coaching, as as wide as Chetch pick. For me, that's the idea. But not too much.

37:18 As well. It's Yeah. Was a good time in my life. doing all these kind of things. I I I work with some of the best footballers in the world.

37:28 Um Really good time. Do you sometimes have to Lie in public to protect. A player's confidence. I was wonder I wonder this because you see managers come out and say, Oh, he can't play because he's injured or whatever and

37:41 They they say things, but I wonder sometimes if managers are protecting players Because they're struggling or not sure I ever had to lie, to be one I'm honest. I don't know, but we protect players. Super empower. So for me super important. Um He lacks confidence. That's in football obvious.

38:00 You see that. You were on one on one on a goalie. And you don't make it, you can see it, it's because you don't have confidence. That's that's how it is. There's not a lot of other reasons. It can be wind, weather, ball, opponent. It's there, but You do it once, you do it twice, three times. Yes, that's like that's not good for the confidence of nobody. Having that in training you you have The job is not to talk too much about to give him a chance to

38:23 get confidence back with the things you do in training, that it doesn't last forever. So Um The one thing you have to Protect players from

38:32 Is public? Mm. Try to because They are. Ruthless in moments, huh? They don't care.

38:40 until something happens or whatever, support us sometimes. I think we were really lucky with that. We created that bond between the supporters and the team that they were not angry, disappointed, yes, but not angry in a way that I don't want to see them anymore? So that helped, but of course we have to protect them sometimes. You have to protect them sometimes from themselves. As well. So That's the job?

39:04 Did you have to involve yourself much with social media usage of your team members? And did you did you ever consider someone's social media usage when you were considering signing them to join the club? 'Cause I I think this now as a Manchester United fan, I think some of it Well, some of our players are posting on social media little indirect messages and little emojis and commenting things, I just think, Oh God, troublemaker. So we had situations that play us. Textes or or posted something.

39:32 At night and deleted it, but I still got aware of it. Mm-hmm. So not that I read it, but people tell me, Oh, last night didn't happen. When Three o'clock.

39:41 Three o'clock. Okay. What is it? Yeah, isn't it? Uh

39:47 What I do in these situations. Even deleted. I go in the dressing room when they're all there on the house. Last night this and that happened. Uh Got deleted.

39:57 I know what's there, but maybe you wanna tell you Everybody? You would ask them to say it in front of everybody. Yeah. Oh nice, eh?

40:06 Mm-hmm. Th then the the the thing is I didn't I don't go for him to uh and tell him how can you write that or whatever. I I somebody told me so I know it. Alright. Not important really, but

40:19 Come on, tell the whole team. What is what he wanted to say? And instead. It's not great in that situation. I don't like to bring people in that, but I think that's a Deserve punishment for something like that?

40:33 But actually the effect is Nobody ever did it. Again. Because nobody wants to be in that situation in a dressing room sitting there and be the one who has to explain something he did last night or whatever. I discussed.

40:48 Individual problems. If it was okay. Quiet. In front of the team. If it was important for the team? Yeah.

40:56 Come on, explain why you did that. Why you went out that long. What happened in the last two hours. Yeah.

41:07 Things going well for you. Yeah. Mines? Before I had That's

41:14 The Tier's the year and two years before were not for the same reason. So you probably know we g didn't get promoted for a point and a goal. First a goal. First a point, then a goal. And then this happened.

41:29 That was the first day when it really went well. So this was the day that you were You got your mind promoted for the first time in their history to the Bundesliga. Yeah. But before winning that I I learned How to lose.

41:43 This is very important, I would say. I think that's again To learn. Even though you want to be as successful as somehow possible. You have to accept that from time to time you lose.

41:59 And then keep then when you then keep going You have a good chance if you learn from it. A defeat is a defeat. If you don't learn from it. If you learn from it it's a very, very important information. And obviously in football we have a lot of opportunities To get beat.

42:15 And opportunities to to learn from it. But this was the biggest relief. In my life. Not happiness. Yeah, I was just pure relief.

42:26 The pressure was mounting. That was crazy. Not only of myself, nobody. Not from outside, I don't know, even know about the outside world thought.

42:36 But To make it happen th that yeah. Oh, it's really special. But it took two years of Coming close. Yeah.

42:46 And dealing with the disappointment. Yeah. True. When I spoke to Jamie Carriger I I asked Jamie Carragher actually this earlier th this morning, I said I said to him. You know, what what was he curious about with you? And this is ac actually what he said. He said there were so many near misses in your career, whether it was in the Champions League or I remember when you were head to head with Man City that in that season and you were one point shy of winning

43:08 Winning the league. And his question was he's fascinated with how you you were so good at dealing with the disappointment of near misses because sometimes near misses can cripple people. They can turn them into a downward spiral, it can be like the plant that got stood on. It can crush someone's confidence. But it appears through your career that

43:28 me and Mrs. ended up being Positive forces. For you. It's not that I knew that Always but

43:39 But may we spoke about very early but what maybe the person I am. These people of course, mom, dad. My faith. As well. So and I

43:50 I knew Always. That I'm not here to get everything. I am here to give everything. So

44:00 That doesn't help in a moment when you when you m when you fail for a point. No. But in the general understanding as a person of course it helps. So I'm not surprised That I fail. I don't

44:12 I don't think I'm I don't see myself As a constant winner. In my in my Mind. I see myself as a constant tryer.

44:21 Tell. I don't know constant winners, but there might be some out there. Um but I trust Can't imagine a world.

44:30 It would be like that. All the all the people running around there and the all the the happy people that win all the time. Nobody wins all the time. Uh nobody does. So it's all about dealing with the things you want and not get and then you want it more and or or not any more or whatever. So The moments were not great, but I learned it here.

44:49 Doing it that day. Changed. the the destiny of the club of Minds of F is my destiny, the players' destiny changed everything. So We wanted it that hard.

45:01 But we learn before We have to try harder. And that's what I always took. If you don't get Yeah. Result you want?

45:10 Try again. And try harder. It was Christian that gave you that job, wasn't it? Yeah. Mr. Heidel.

45:18 Christian Heidel. I am I spoke to Christian Heidel. He made a His English is very funny, isn't it? Yeah, I've had I've had to I'm gonna translate it for the viewers, but I'm gonna actually play what he said to you in in Germany so you can hear it. Global Yes dear Global we've known each other for exactly thirty-five years now.

45:40 First we were both players. Then you subsequently became my esteemed coach. It all started in mites. You changed an entire club. You changed an entire city. Back then we were promoted to the Bundesliga together, and today Mainz has been in the Bundesliga for over twenty five years.

45:57 Back then that was actually unimaginable. You go to Dortmund, change your club, change an entire city, and win every title there is to win. You move to Liverpool and the same thing happens for the third time. You change your club, you change your city. I don't think any coach before you has ever achieved that.

46:13 And I'm always asked. What makes Jurgen Klopp special? To this day he has simply remained a genuine person, always authentic, which is incredibly important. Apart from the fact that you are, of course, an outstanding expert. I hope we'll see each other again soon on our little shared island in Mallorca.

46:29 Um and have a great day. And lots of fun with your podcast. Wow. You know the wall. Yeah.

46:36 Lobo. Well yeah. You change the club. You change the city. Yeah. You did that over and over and over again. You went on and did that Again at Dortmund.

46:47 Um winning a huge range of awards there at a time when they were When considered to be hopeful. And then you went off to Liverpool and Did the same and as you I was reading about how when you travel to Liverpool there was thirty thousand Liverpool fans watching your plane fly across

47:03 um the channel to Liverpool because they were all very excited. And you arrived at a time when they were in a a period of dysfunction, kinda similar to where Manchester United are now, I guess. And you managed to bring them up from being a team that were Dysfunctional hadn't won. There was a lot of pessimism around the club. I think as a Man United fan, I was hoping and wondering. That if Liverpool would ever come back, I was hoping they would never come back again. But you brought them back annoyingly.

47:28 W when you when you arrived at Liverpool that day You said in that press conference that you're the normal one. Remember that? What what did you observe? When you arrive, what was the culture? What was the feeling?

47:40 And what was your first thought about what you had to do to to bring that club back to its glory. The the feeling I got I had roughly a week. to to think about everything from the op from the first call Two.

47:52 signature, I think. Did you have other offers from other clubs? Oh in that moment not. But in the summer I had a lot of offers like before, I mean I when I finished at at Dortmund. Um but in that moment it was just Liverpool. But It was kind of destiny because I didn't want to it was not we were on a family holiday in Lisabon with the with the the two boys. Ula and I sitting there, phone goes. My agent.

48:16 Why is he crawling? Yeah. Liverpool. And the b both

48:23 Yes. The boys. Yeah. Okay. But did she and she didn't see my lips when when I spoke. What? And realise Oh god.

48:31 We start again. We will we will um go to Liverpool. What did you boys? Or come on. If you're not a Man United fan, you know what Liverpool means for po to people. Um and

48:44 Day day day. Yeah. They loved it, and we we fell instantly in love with that club. So Didn't did Manchester United have a call? Yeah, I spoke to them So In the year when Sir Alex retired, they

48:58 They spoke. So I was that time I would have been interested, I was a young Uh we had a sensational team at Dortmund. Mike

49:09 God. So somebody m they probably thought, My what is he doing there? Um, later on I heard that my players handle Adam Lalana, James Mellon so that they flew to to to a Real Madrid when we played a semi final in the Champions League to watch us and wanted to see what is Dortmund doing. My God, what a football that is and

49:29 I I mean you can get bigger compliments. It's really it's really good. I wanna know why Manchester United didn't No, and No, they they tried. I I tr it was the wrong time, wrong moment. For me I I was in c I had a contract at Dortmund, I wouldn't have left. Not really for for for nobody in that time. They just needed a manager, but the manager they wanted in that case now it was one of a few options, I think Um so it was you that turned down Manchester United, not Manchester United turning You don't.

49:57 Yeah. That way. So I yeah. So We need someone else on negotiations. We need someone. No, no, no. He's not there anymore, the guy who negotiated that. So um there are now other people in charge. It's long ago, long ago. So W why wouldn't I like Manchester United' often known as the biggest club in the world. Why wouldn't you take that?

50:16 Chop. Why didn't you take that job? Manchester United, the greatest United States. Well, we are now not in private in a private space. So there are some reasons what the people in that conversation told me which I didn't like. Oh really? So

50:31 You know, it was that big. We get all the players we want. We are like we can this, we get him, we get him, we get him, we get him and I was sitting there. Yeah. So it I I it was not my project. It didn't feel like my it was the wrong time, but on top of that it was not my project.

50:49 Well, you can't. I didn't want to spring back I don't know. Pope Paul is a sensational player. My God. But it d these things don't work usually, but these kind of things, or Cristiano, my God, we all know that he's the best player, or together with Messi, the best player in the world. So But bring it back never helps. And that time in two thousand thirteen it was obviously not about Cristiano. Maybe about Paula, I'm not even sure when don't get the numbers together. But it was just the idea is we bring the best players together and then let's go.

51:20 It wasn't about the football. And I sat there and was like uh I am not sure that's not for me. So and then the pure Pure football.

51:32 Project. comes up with with Liverpool. And a sensational talk to to Mike Gordon. Should That's really important as well. Like he was the is the owner. I know John and and Tom of course as well, but Mike was responsible for us. I wanted after the talk, I want to be his friend. He's such a good guy.

51:50 So that's how it started and in the end it Yeah. Pretty special. I find this fascinating because as a Manchester United fan, I I observed from the moment Sir Alex Ferguson left we adopted a very different approach and we brought in all these massive name players, Dean Maria, Falcow, Ibr you know, I Ibrahimovich, Pogba, Ronaldo.

52:10 And we we failed. And It it taught me something as a entrepreneur about what matters more. And I I actually when I read through your philosophy, it's quite clear in your philosophy that you you prefer attitude and character versus

52:26 How many Instagram followers you've got and what you've done in the past. Yeah, of course. And I I wanted to get your take on why you think The last. This is very selfish of me. The last sort of fifteen years at Manchester United haven't worked out as an objective observer.

52:41 I wanna I need to know you you can't you're a man that was able to take teams and make them successful, and we are currently Underdogs in many regards, because of the last fifteen years. What is it that we've missed in that time? What have we overlooked in your view? I know you don't want to hear that. You have a hypothesis though. Think a second.

53:04 Since I joined Liverpool. About what Man United did right or wrong. I just did. So it's like I buy into a situation. So um I went to Liverpool and that moment you became our opponent, not my enemy, but a a very important opponent. One who is much more fun to beat than maybe and and and like others. We lived there for nine years. So I know so many people great people.

53:31 Yeah. So absolutely, but then you go to the game and think, Oh my God, that's something different. Not I make that up. It's like that. Yeah. Um but I really didn't think. But but always in football is like this. And again, like in life. You have a problem. And

53:45 You only try to find a solution for now knowing You have two days later another problem. You know it. But search for now. Just find a solution for that problem. There's no mid, no long term. So Jenny Okay, we have to Deal with that for another day or two and then we can sort it. And that means in

54:03 In our sense we we have to deal with that for a year or two. And I did and then we can make a big step. And this f in our case and football case r contracts are running out Player goes anyway, we can sell him, we can do this, but Because you're in such a rush all the time, just because you want to or have to win the next game. A little bit like that.

54:25 being now in a situation probably united, in the years when they were not happy there would By the time from that time, Jose becoming second and nobody was really happy there and Oh. Remember that? In that time second was not good enough, and now you are not even close to that. But that's not a man united story for my it's just a football story. It's always like that in the foot in the world of football. You win.

54:48 You are the greatest. You lose You know nothing about the game. You draw, you're boring. So there's not that and you you're constant and it's only about your own idea what you really want to do and where you wanna go. And Everything in life is about development. We today you were not the same ten years ago, I was not the same ten years ago. So it means the time between in then and now counts. So if it counts.

55:12 For me the next ten years do the same, so it's important what I do, it's important what I see in a year, two, three. So I have to plan my own life mid and long term as much as I can do that and especially the destiny and and the future of a football club. A player. Can score a goal, can score five goals, but never solve the problems. If you have

55:33 Real problems. And I don't know the United problems. But that Liverpool was the same. It's not about that. On the day when we s when we lost Sold Phil continue. That was not the day when I thought Oh. Good that we have the money. I lost a player I wanted to work with for the next t ten years, if you want. It was not the that that I thought

55:55 And we can invest it. Yeah. We invest it smartly, that's true. But it's not that we found a player for the position and sort of that that's we had to sort differently, but we found two really solid, solid w and becoming world class players with Alison and Pangai. That was for the future. To go from there. And now that's the difference, I think. I've had so many founders speak to me and say, Why didn't this particular ad that I ran on this platform work for me?

56:22 Maybe the copy wasn't good, the creative wasn't strong, but usually the problem is they're not having the right conversation because that ad never reached the right person. And if you're in B2B marketing, that is much of the game. And this is where LinkedIn ads solve that problem for you. Their targeting is ridiculously specific. You can target by job title, seniority, company size, industry, and even someone's skill set. And then network includes over a billion professionals, about 130 million of them are decision makers. So when you use LinkedIn ads, you're putting your brand in front of the right people. And LinkedIn ads also drive the highest B2B return on ad spend across all ad networks in my experience. If you want to give them a try, head over to LinkedIn.com slash diary. And when you spend two hundred and fifty dollars on your first LinkedIn ads campaign, you'll get An extra

57:10 Two hundred and fifty dollar credit from me for the next one. That's LinkedIn.com slash diary. Terms and conditions apply. Do any of you remember a conversation I had on this podcast with anthropologist Daniel Lieberman? It was one of our most viewed conversations of all time, and the most replayed moment in that conversation was when I talked about this product. These are what I call Barefoot shoes by Vivo Barefoot, which have significantly reduced support, which gives my feet. The opportunity that they desperately want and need to strengthen. We're living in a comfort crisis. And that at all times in our lives we're making this trade of whether to have more comfort now and therefore more discomfort in the future is Or a little bit less comfort now. But to be stronger and healthier in the future. And research from Liverpool University has backed this up. They've shown that wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes for six months can increase foot strength by up to 60%. So if you want to start strengthening your feet,

58:04 And your body visit vivoberfoot.com/slash Steven, and you'll get twenty percent off when you use code StevenB20 at checkout. That also comes with a one hundred day money back guarantee. What I love about Football. is the analogies to the world I'm in, which is the world of business, where you can watch a team like we're seeing, I think, Crystal Palace at the moment, who objectively don't have

58:28 Maybe the best players in the world, they don't have the most money. Bournemouth as well, yeah. But they're doing something which is creating this magic. And it's this wonderful narrative of You don't need to have the the most talent or resources. to have the best outcome. So what is that gap between like and that's there must be something. No, look, it's

58:49 It's a situation, a moment in the situation where Crystal Pellets and Bournemouth is massively different to the situation for United. If if Bournemouth wins the game one nil and doesn't perform particularly well. You take it and you go on. I'm not sure you would really find an article in in in in the newspaper about it. Just win it and go. But united is united. United each step. is under the

59:09 And the focus and what? Oh, he didn't they won. But he didn't play great. So th they win a game and then somebody uh doesn't perform well, so pick him out and go for him for throttle thing. Wow. Well so the coach has to pick him up again, No, it's all right, stuff like this and the next one and the next they're different. Completely different.

59:30 situations. The only problem you have now In the time you try to sort your problems. All the other clubs improved their situations. Mm-hmm. So Liverpool has an incredible squad, yes. Are they one hundred percent happy right now with the three defeats? No, probably not. But incredible squad.

59:50 Arsenal incredible squad. City City. I mean and I want to strike back, so it's already three clubs. Chelsea They in that time when everybody thought, Do they have an overview about their transfer market? Do they know who they own and who they loan and stuff like this? Obviously, somehow It pays off.

1:00:07 So You have already five clubs. They are above you. Are you happy with position six? No. Yeah. So and here's the problem.

1:00:16 Should you be happy theoretically with position six? Maybe. This year? And build on that. So find

1:00:24 Um find a reason. Find a reason to enjoy the situation again. Find a reason to enjoy a a one nil Victory Tunnel Victor at home. Whoever against whoever.

1:00:36 South Hampton. Try to enjoy that. Really, be happy, go home. And not listening to others who tell you then. That's what we had years ago.

1:00:48 When we decided after a a draw Against West Brom. To say thank you to the supporters. We stand in front of the cop. And h hold his other hand.

1:01:00 And said thank you. And then the press conference Tony Poole is uh Uh what a what a world we are living in when Liverpool with the money they spend celebrate a point against West Brom. Mm-hmm. Oh.

1:01:14 Thank you. Um so but it's it's it's your choice. How you grow together again. And I think after all the years now without Lot of good football. They need to find a way to grow.

1:01:27 Together. I fully believe in Ruben I'm reading. Um I think he's he's a man that's focused on culture and I I like how honest he is as well.

1:01:37 And I think with the team that they have around them with people like Jason Wilcox and Ineos, who I've met Um and colour and all the others that are there. I think we're we've never been in a better place. I personally feel like that because I just think they're aiming for more long term things. Dreaming up. The only problem if you have no clue about football, but besides that. So

1:02:01 Good on you. Good on you. I have faith. Yeah, it's great. I don't know if all my friends do, but I but I certainly do. And I the only reason I have faith is because I see the club aiming at more long term things now. And not buying it's what you have to do. players'cause they have loads of Instagram followers. When you got that phone call from Liverpool and they asked you to to come and join, you said

1:02:22 Well, the reason you chose Liverpool is'cause they felt like a football project versus Manchester United who Seem to be a bit more sh Less forent. But it's not the same year. Two two years before. I'm wondering. What is it about their proposal that made you think it was a football project?

1:02:41 Oh, the situation. I knew the club, I knew the team. So if you look at Yeah. On top of that. I didn't think it that way. But uh when it's

1:02:50 Left. It was And they became champion in his last year, but it was not that the team was the one you build a future on. So that's how it is. When you come in as new it's it's a bit built to fail. If you want. But I didn't see it that way. And that time it was had other reasons, but if I would have thought longer about it, it would have been probably Yeah.

1:03:10 So David Moy is an fantastic, fantastic manager. Um but he proves every year. Um couldn't do the job and since then it's a bit of a problem. So a new team needs Time. He was stitched up. So well needs time. So Liverpool the team, as I I said when I came.

1:03:27 Um nobody likes the team. Not even a team likes the team. Uh I like the team. So I like the team. I knew the players, I thought been Bobby Famine moved there, thought, Oh that's a smart that's a smart transfer. I know Chris I knew Christian Pentecost, I love Divo Gorigi, I knew John Hennesson, I knew Adam Lan, I know many plenty of players and heard only

1:03:45 Kind of good enough. And Oh. Well. Let's see.

1:03:50 So I like the team. So that's a football team, proper football super attitude. I mean Um Um play. handle Millie and Adam together midfield. Maybe I did. I don't even know my my first lineup, but this um it's a proper engine room. It's smart players, it's people who really want to

1:04:08 want to um perform, want to work hard and all these kind of things. And what you need four star. I knew Liverpool was not the same club than they were before. It's not that I Went into the shiny. Room. I played there a year before with Dortmund in the summer in the pre season, and it was massively disappointed about the dressing rooms I I remembered you have this

1:04:31 pictures in your mind you think oh my God's envy And you walk in and make two steps into the dressing room when you run against the wall and you think Kidding? That all?

1:04:43 Where's the rest? So English dress rooms are really, really small in the old stadium. There we think Oh my God, how can you bring it it was built for eleven players and now we come here w with thirty. So And people in that room doesn't help. So

1:04:57 I I knew about the history, I knew that nobody's happy, I knew that I like the team. Um That's a good start. And did they tell you that they were gonna develop the the ground, the stadium? Did they make any promises to your assurances? Did they tell you? That's that's nothing I need to talk about in the in this kind of conversation. I know my the the job I had in that moment was just to improve the football team, not the club that I was involved in, all the other stuff happened with time.

1:05:26 the time just that we uh realize this is my responsibility now as well. Um you d you never know. I don't plan seven, eight, nine year spells in a club. It just happens. It's like I I don't I don't Think they could sack me, but I know. Could happen. So I plan.

1:05:44 From a specific moment on when I sort of the first few things then I plan mid and long term or always did. Knowing it might not be for me. But um I wasn't I was never uh worried about that too much. ultimately bring the city behind you. Was there anything you thought, Okay, the first thing gonna have to do is get rid of him, change this So

1:06:11 But A year before and like not in that season, but the the the Two years before they b nearly became chairman. It was a different team and it was a very specific way of football. Offensively oh my god, they were ridiculously good. Defensively, yeah. Lucky, good goalie there, stuff like this. It was not the same, so

1:06:31 We didn't have the team from that time. We didn't have Suarez. We didn't have Sterling. We didn't ha yeah, we had still um Dennis Dorish stuff like this. But it was different, different team, completely different. I I I arrived there, I had five strikers. Mm. It was Christie Manteger, Danny Inks, Divo Gorigi, Bobby Ferminio.

1:06:49 Ten year story, five strikers and I want to play a one striker system. Pooh. How do we deal with that? But it was it was fine and it there was so much quality. Just not really sort it. So the first thing I had to sort is like to to organise them. So find g find a way to make sure that they understand that we have a chance to win the next football game. We have to do a couple of things for that. For Tottenham, three days time to train.

1:07:12 Yeah. Jump in their face. And let's see what what what we get for it. So it doesn't it's not organized. It's like that we started with an organized chaos. So I gave them a few ideas about where we have to where we where we want to put them under pressure and in that moment now do it. And afterwards we work we talk about it how it worked out because there was no time to Trained. We anyway we had no time the week after we played European League, I think, in the mid week and then you play again and

1:07:37 No, it's like You are in a rush. A a coaching career with all the games you have to play if you really want to, a top team especially, if you you really want to develop a style of football, you are set up to fail. Because it's like you have no time in the pre season, there's no the players are everywhere playing big tournaments, blah blah blah, and then come two weeks before the season starts into Your camp.

1:08:00 Okay. So That's right. Let's go from here. Then you play top teams play every three days from a specific day on B Obviously. We lost a lot of finals. That means we played a lot of finals. That means we played all the games until the end of the season. Which is a lot. So there's no really time. So to train and really develop things. So you have to use each little moment.

1:08:25 A specific idea. We all can. Buy into. And

1:08:31 That's what we did. I loved our first game against Tottenham. Simon Minule had to make a good few good really m good saves, but they had to do as well. And that year Tottenham was really strong. They became second behind Leicester, I think that was that season. And That's a start. What are those

1:08:47 little ideas that you would started to implement one by one. So many if you don't have time to change football. And we cannot go there and show them a little bit pass the ball here, pass the ball there. And then if you pass the ball back again, you can shoot on your alone in front of the goal. That doesn't work like that. Make sure that you are stable. If you're stable it means that

1:09:15 The other team, whatever they try, it's not easy for them to get through and shoot just Finish. I don't like that. So if you can avoid that. Do it. Because we are people, but we now realised a few times it's not easy that you If they have five, six chances

1:09:30 After each other. opportunities after each other, then it's like that you you f you don't feel great. Nobody plays his best football if each attack of the opponent ends in the arms of your goalie. That just doesn't work. So how can we do that? And stability is to organize a team that's number one Two and three. on the to do list of a successful manager. And that's what I did. We organized. And then we ex we we told them to run their socks off. If you want the people have to sh you have to show the people that you want to change something. You have to show the people that you want to achieve something. How we can tell I can tell them.

1:10:02 By the end, you have to show them. So run. And they and they went for it. I I loved it so much. They loved it so much. It's easy. They're all top fit. They want to run. So just show them which direction and it goes. And then we developed step by step Our own way. of football. Um

1:10:20 But we got we got stable pretty quickly, not as much as we wanted. I think we became six, seventh, eight. I I don't even know first season. Great. Lost both. Not great. Um

1:10:31 But then We we knew each other and we loved working together with this group, brought in Super players? really super super players, super character, super players. And stick together.

1:10:45 I mean, what can you do? We we lost it we lost the European League final in Basel. How it always is to have some party after the game. So you can not organise a party, but you all know if you lose. Who wants to go to the party? So

1:10:59 I was the new manager, yes. Not that new anymore, seven eight months in or so. And I realise some players are there, but it wasn't a team hotel. So that's what I called them told them. All here.

1:11:11 Come on, come downstairs. Ah, boss. Really? I tell you what, this was only the start. We only are together since six seven months this is not the last final we play in. This is the first final we played. Okay. We lost. It's not important. The first international find we lost. No problem. We go again. And I went on a stay on the dance floor.

1:11:31 But it was a dance floor. And I Well we're saying we are Liverpool, Shah. I mean I had Um had a few parties after the

1:11:40 And I always thought that'd be a little bit more. I don't waste time. At all. On not being happy about what we achieved over the whole year because qualifying for a final

1:11:52 It's a real achievement. Losing it. is not great, but until then everything was fine and I never accepted That beat and all the rest. So we have a party.

1:12:04 And then B. Went on to achieve No things. And we we need a bit of time, obviously. But

1:12:12 It was okay. And this goes back to the point earlier about controlling the mindset and the psychology after you lose to make sure that you don't get depressed and If you don't learn from a defeat, it's a real defeat. If you learn from it, it's just it's a very, very important information. And that's uh how I always understood.

1:12:30 Understood it too. I had enough opportunities to learn. Really? Yeah, I I was I I I lost more Champions League finals than most people play. It's not a great thing to say. It's the truth anyway. You're known for what they call heavy metal football.

1:12:46 Yeah, but that phrase. And you know what I'm saying. So and it was not m in my mind that I thought You wanna play heavy metal football. They asked me about Arsen Wenger. And the comparison and they they think we are similar in a way in a

1:13:07 Ah senh I know. So Come on, don't be disrespectful to us, saying I'm a young ba ba ba man from somewhere. Um But if you want to compare us then I'm not sure that's possible because Ar Arsen's football is rather like an orchestra and I m my team plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band. But that was the first day when I

1:13:25 Thought about my team, I got heavy metal man. But it But it's true. Yeah, somehow. It is true. And I know that more than anyone is a Manchester United fan watching I'd hate playing your football teams because they

1:13:38 They ran so much, they were so passionate, they never let up, they would they could always win in the last minute. And the intensity was j you were just anxious as a as a football fan watching the games because it was so Alone. And it was overwhel it's almost a overwhelming emotionally. And I I I remember through your era you would win sometimes you'd win games by seven you'd score seven goals, five goals. Every week when I pull up my phone to check the scores that we'll Liverpool have scored five again. Oh, they've scored seven again, they've scored six again. Sometimes you would concede three, but you had it was it was

1:14:08 It was crazy how to high intensity The way you played football was. Don't waste time with holding back. Yeah.

1:14:16 I don't understand it. We have nothing to do in ninety minutes, ninety five minutes, whatever. I don't. We had to learn I had to learn to to manage games. Inside me until the last day it was like

1:14:29 Come on. Yeah. Come on, try. But then I to I when I mean it be I I grow up and I got more mature and stuff like this, it was like okay, come on, hold the ball, control the ball. All the things you you at one point you do you you learn

1:14:42 Yeah. Some uh at any time on your on your journey. And that's that's how it is. And I love the game so much and could play it not that good, that I was so happy that I could work with these outstanding players. I couldn't so I I loved it. I enjoyed it so much seeing them. doing what they're doing. I was the I was number one supporter of my team.

1:15:04 Teams. Where bye, boss. I love what they did. So and that's what I I I carried through the week. I didn't tell them. I d I told them I wanna be your friend, but don't want to be I cannot be your best friend. Because I'm the one who tells you all.

1:15:15 Very often they'll tell you this is not right, this is not right. But then but the feeling the general feeling was I love them. In my mind, my ex players, I love them all. And some of them Don't love back, let me say like that, probably for some reasons or whatever, but that doesn't mean anything to me. I love my clubs. Do you think it's important

1:15:35 How you in? Because you you know, this heavy metal high intensity find was great for the fans. They they love watching three, four, five, six, seven they love watching that stuff. Do you think that matters or do you think it's just about getting the three points? Just yeah, we didn't win that often five nil or seven. It felt like it. No. It's

1:16:01 Yeah, of course it's important. So if you have your Backpacked. Going to stadium as a player. If you have your boots and if you have a well shirt, if we have

1:16:10 Don't waste time with anything then giving you all. There's no guarantee to get Anything. But the only chance to get something. So give you all from the first until last minute. You have to understand this game is only that fun for us because all the people are watching it. That's why we earn the money. I mean it. I know that's what people want to hear, but it's we earn the money because everybody's interested in it. Everybody wants to see it, knows about it, reads everything about it, all these kind of things and for that With all the stories around, the only thing we really have to deliver

1:16:41 Yes. Give you absolute all. In a game like that. Whatever, whichever game is there. Five thirty.

1:16:48 Two thirty, three thirty, whenever the game starts. Give you absolute all. But why not just one nil and defense and boring and pass it round and That happens. That happens in games. You are you realise, okay It's called a goal about today's not our days. Come on, let's get it over the line. That happens. But it cannot be the target or the purpose for the next game again. Let's do it like that. Not for There are clubs if you own realistic target is to stay in the league.

1:17:15 A wonder it's a wonderful result. But we talk about a club like Liverpool. We are We're are bigger. than that. You have to win each football game when you are manager of Liverpool. That's what people that's not that the before the season anybody thinks Oh I don't know, thirty eight games? Oh that makes sense. Ooh, more than hundred. Neb nobody had ever. So it's not like that, but still each defeat and each destroy is like How could it happen?

1:17:43 Like And so and that's why you have to To play in a specific way. Not all clubs have the same things to do, but the top clubs they have to win all the games and when you have the chance you win them clear. You win them high with the proper results, stuff like this. You have to make the people enjoy the football you play. And I love That.

1:18:03 I I loved it. I w honestly. It's like the the the games we played, the the the the the the the results. we we had were just incredible. It's just a a amazing. Not all of them. And I love the Bon Hills as much as I do all the others. The Champions League final was the worst the worst final of all the four My team's played. But we want it. Would I take

1:18:23 But it changes okay that's the other three as well, so a little bit the the performance in the other games was really good, but we lost. Yeah, it was not fantastic, but we won. So All fine.

1:18:34 It's about the result. But if you have a result and another result. It has to lead to really good football at one point. As good as possible for your specific team.

1:18:46 You want to stay in the league? Do it with good football. You wanna Mm qualify for Europe, do it with good football because we are there for the people. We don't it's not there that we just go home and the people think, Oh, it's unwatchable, eh? I'm not sure I come next week again.

1:19:00 That's not that's not fair. Try. To play. The game is really is r is a really cool game. So let's make sure that everybody sees it. And what is the Liverpool way? Wha what is inherent in when you come to Liverpool, you are the manager or you are a player

1:19:14 What is the thing that you have to do that's specific to Liverpool in order to be successful. You have to understand the community. I mean the community just a city community and it's a bigger community a around the world. And there are so many people. And this club went through a lot. Not as the only club in the world, but Come on. But that moment we just think about ourselves. Went through a lot. The reaction of to these situations was always exceptional.

1:19:37 to be one hundred percent honest. And that's what you have to understand, what you have to learn. That that me this club means more to the people than just football. So and that was you have you have to understand and that's why what we do is more important than it maybe is Somewhere else. That that's the responsibil b responsibility we always took and understood one hundred percent. Our boy uh the players understood. Uh to play for Liverpool is not just a club where you play during your career. It's The club and it's something you will definitely r remember for life. So that we try we try to make sure that the boys understood.

1:20:16 If we give our absolute everything now We meet in ten, fifteen years, look back. Everything It was the best we could have done. the absolute best we could have done. I think that's how you sh

1:20:27 So my view on life is as well. The other stuff is just Salting the problem in front of you. Mm-hmm. There's something we have to sort but when you sort you think about what's the effect for for for the rest. And that's what some people

1:20:42 Some clubs maybe. Don't want to see because the pressure is too big. Just to make sure. Okay, tomorrow at least they will not write. We have no clue.

1:20:53 Tomorrow at least they will say they found a solution. And then we can think about Um The next day or whatever. How does how does someone I don't know how someone succeed succeeds you because you have such a big aura.

1:21:06 Are you aware that you have a big aura? Don't know if anybody has uh the awareness of that. I heard about it, but I Does not they don't know what it means. One hundred percent, to be honest. But I see with other people. And energy when you you arrive, it's the passion, it's the ability to talk, it's the ability to inspire people. It is, you know, it has an impact on the rival team you're playing because they go clocks here and big personality, big charisma.

1:21:31 So Arnie Slot coming in after you, he's he doesn't appear to be as ha have the same size of an aura. And I I don't know, I just think Big big shoes to fill.

1:21:43 In terms of your aura. I have to go to the toilet. How about you too? Oh reading. Yeah.

1:21:54 That's good. Big shoes. Big shoes. I would not want to Fill such shoes. A couple of things. First and foremost, I

1:22:05 Uh I thought I have. To say What I had to say. When I when I um

1:22:13 Announced my Exit, if you want. My retirement, whatever you'll call it. And the time and people charged it, wrong moment, blah blah blah, but ever it can they cannot change that. It was fine. The feeling was I have to say that. Then we have to finish the season as good as somehow possible in either well. You win something, but you couldn't do that for whatever reason. And then you have to make sure because that's still something you have to do, you have to try.

1:22:38 to make it as easy as somehow possible For the guy who's coming after you. That's what I tried as well. Because I wanted Them all to d do incredibly well.

1:22:52 And also if somebody It's not doing it that way. The first Hint you can get that. Maybe.

1:23:02 He wants the next guy not to do it, but there is shouting, Oh my God He did that, he did that, he did that. And I don't need that. I want Liverpool to do well. I want Liverpool to win. But it did. So what I liked a lot about Arnett, and Arnold didn't hesitate, but you said no these shoes, Arnett didn't have that problem. He thought okay, that's a good that's a great club, that's a great team and he's right, it was a fantastic It's a fantastic club and it's a fantastic team and he

1:23:29 Step into that. We had a lot of contact after that. He was super He's a super, super good guy. Um I got. Like the team. Oh.

1:23:40 Thanks a lot, ba, all these kind of things. Yeah, and he May the best. He got the best out of this team and they they they became champion in an incredible manner. To be honest. So And I'm really, really happy about that. So that's all. That's all.

1:23:54 Is it It all about it shows again, it's all about how you see it. You can see you step into my Footsteps, how you say called it. Or you take over a fantastic football team. It was a brilliant

1:24:07 I mean my my best friend's uh Liverpool fan and he said Before you left actually, he said this is the best squad Liverpool have ever had. Yeah. Um Arnie has inherited that squad, which is considered to be the best squad by many people that Liverpool have ever had. And in that first year.

1:24:22 Didn't really change much. There wasn't really there wasn't any big signings coming. I actually heard from one of the the players in Liverpool that To a a really good friend of mine that the best thing Arnie had done was actually in that first year

1:24:34 Don't change much. Don't come in and try and radically change things and what Arnest Lod would say himself. I think he said it. It's that's super smart. So it's not about what Arne wants to show the world what he can do. It's about how to get the best out of this team. And that's exactly what he did. Not changing much means he changed a little bit. We became third a year before. So there's not a lot you have to change, but a few decisive things you have to change. And all of a sudden you win the league by some distance. So that's what it is. Not that he has to put his new own stamp. This team was was was good in a in a lot of ways, but we didn't win.

1:25:12 the year before. So and that's what he what his what his um job boss and he did that in an incredible impressive manner. So and That's all you want. And you need people. Who

1:25:25 Have the confidence. to do these kind of things because um Doesn't make sense if you have a uh a manager who is not one hundred percent sure about the things he is wants to do and I want us to play like this, or if that's not possible, I want to play like this, or I wanna

1:25:43 But we maybe Completely different. That doesn't work. Being a football manager is already a challenge. All the different things you have to do. Being a football manager in in

1:25:54 competitive league like the Premier League is a real challenge. being a football manager in the world we are living in with ch media Social media and all these kind of things. It's an incredible challenge. Believe me. You You have no clue.

1:26:10 What's coming up the next day. You think, Oh my God, where's that coming from? H who was that? Oh my player. You do read his story, whatever, and all of a sudden you think Uh. From a problem it turns into your problem. And a and a wing, so sort that and all the rest as well. So you need this kind of I love that about Arnold that he came in and and took over.

1:26:35 And he knew he got a good team, yes, it was. Um And you did a perfect job. I mean in terms of making changes this year You s Liverpool have spent what, four hundred and fifty odd million

1:26:47 Which is a crazy number. I mean the uh broke I think he'd broken the transfer record in various positions several times with Wirts and um with Isaac now as well. So change has arrived. These are these are new people. They're coming in with their own their own ideologies from their previous clubs. They've all arrived at once, a lot of new faces at once.

1:27:07 Is this not now where the challenge begins? Because this is This is gonna become Arnie's team now. Yeah. That's not a problem. That's just completely normal. And it it doesn't mean exactly that there must be a lot of change. I mean No team in the by the way, it's four fifty or whatever maybe I don't know the exact numbers, but they they earned a lot of money as well.

1:27:29 Um And change always has an impact and change always needs time and don't and but people talk then about Yeah, but this the if No, that's not like that. They he keeps us exactly the same team like us. Yeah, Darwin Yoon is still there, Luis Diaz is still there as an example. So they start playing it but they have problems. So yeah. Yeah, then we need a change.

1:27:49 So now they're not there anymore. The new guys are there and they are good really, really good players. It's not working out immediately. Yeah, why? Why it's not working yet? Because Development needs time. Uh then nobody can change that. And people never need to find uh need to adapt to situations, need to adapt to things and that all these kind of things. So it's all it's all good, it's all in place. What you have uh Liverpool this year has to be in the competition, in the decisive moments, and then They have to be ready to go for it. There's no guarantee that you then will win it again. That doesn't happen just

1:28:22 Like this. You cannot be champion. spend money and be chairman again. The other teams don't sleep. That's how it is. And to become champion, you need luck in moments here and there. That's how it is. Nobody wants to hear that, but crossbar Over the line, not over the line, all these kind of things. It can go in your direction or in the other direction. So it's all fine. And we discussed the situation now like it's a Yeah.

1:28:45 We struggle. Surprise. Yeah, we we take we take the money and throw it against them. Four hundred fifty million. Yeah, but they earned two hundred ought million as well. So it's all fine. If you're with Liverpool. And only these people are really

1:29:01 There's only the only people who matter if you're with Liverpool Yeah. You trust them and they do w the right they did the right stuff, they do the right things. So work on it and become the best football team this team can be.

1:29:14 You never had a transfer window like that, where you spent that much money and No, we built we built three stands and a and a training ground. Yeah, exactly. And y and I remember the press conference, I think when you were referring to cities ability to spend money. I had no clue that it was possible. Nobody nobody ever told me that it's possible that we can that we can spend. Like that. My last year at Liverpool, so we obviously So the Adidas deal, the new stadium, all these kind of things, yeah, they earn more money, but it was never no never ever I I could have asked for the amount of money. But that's not a problem. That time it was not there, no problem at all. Really not. And I love the fact

1:29:55 That we were as successful as we were. And Build new stands and build a training ground because We talk now about a transfer window in the way you want to talk about it, mm, spend a lot of money.

1:30:09 Um But there's no discussion about the stance and no discussion about the training ground. They are second to none the training ground, mm m the stands are wonderful. So and and at the same place where Enfield is A good build. Pretty much a new stadium without leaving the old one. So that's a fantastic story and that will stay forever. And maybe at one point they decide

1:30:31 the cop could be even for more people or whatever. I don't know if that ever will happen. But you could do stuff there. And that's what I love about this. I mean I think I really want As much as I can. It's not my first target because I have to win football games with my team, but I want That uh club. benefits from the time we were together after we left. I want that. This might be a quite a naive observation, but in the time when you're at Liverpool, my assessment of Liverpool was you never

1:31:00 You didn't necessarily have The world's most famous starting eleven. Team. But you could be Anybody.

1:31:07 Mm. So you know you when you brought in Milner. who was at City before and when you brought in these s uh other players, I would see I'd be like, Why are they why are they signing Him, he's not but then when they'd play for Liverpool, they would be unbelievable players and you could be anybody. So there was almost this culture at Liverpool, which which I observed where You didn't necessarily go for the Galactico plays, you weren't trying to get Ronaldo or Messi. You were going for sort of these Players that had character and and c a culture fit.

1:31:34 And ultimately that meant that You know, you it at times it looked like you were playing with twelve men. And so then this neutr this transfer window that I've just observed. Where you ha you have gone for the very, very best Names.

1:31:45 the c you know, some of the best players on planet Earth that were number one choices for Real Madrid and the biggest clubs on Earth. I almost don't recognise Liverpool. It moving like that in a window. Yeah. There's part of me that I'm like oh h hopefully that this is their Falcow. D Maria.

1:32:00 moment, Ronaldo moment where they where they bought big players but they didn't think of culture. I'm praying. Yeah. You wish. That's the difference. You wish.

1:32:13 Exactly. Incredible strike. Yeah. Incredible striker, flow where to orbit. Eat your words if you have the wrong use the wrong words, or it's an incredible talent. Uh I think it's the incredible player

1:32:25 Um Yeah, just offensive players. It's a really, really, really good Well Jordan. Squat.

1:32:35 If the young sender half is not getting injured, it's the perfect squad. Now he's injured that doesn't help, then there you might be a majority on the sander half position besides that, it's a perfect squat. Two super left backs. Really super right back. So it's it's just a really good football. That's how you set the team up. And now we have to deal with the situation. They all think they have to start the game, but that's the normal job. It's not that it's difficult over that's the normal job. You have this discussion who will start a week or two in the th in the third week, one is injured and you're happy that the other can start. So that's That's the The world. A football manager.

1:33:10 Is Living in so we ha we don't have to to worry about What's that the Uh really interesting so you don't have to worry about Liverpool. They will be fine.

1:33:22 This was the just the net spend graph of the different clubs. Um Yeah. Well you uh While you were there. And it's quite clear that you um

1:33:32 You aren't spending The same as your rivals during your time. And a lot of the fans in the media speculated that that the owners The Fermi Sports Group just weren't giving you the money. But you were still getting the results, which is pretty much. No, no, no. So yeah.

1:33:45 What's the what's the public perception that I didn't ask for the money. That's probably not right. I probably had these conversations, but I didn't ask in a way If you don't get it. We can do it. It's not my job to think about how much we can squeeze out of whatever Area.

1:34:03 I was I I felt massively responsi m my my idea was always with the The boys we have. Become the best team you can be. And You were right when you said um we were maybe not the best team. I think uh was a period when

1:34:22 we played football you could have thought that's maybe the best played by the best team. No, exactly between eighteen and twenty there was a pretty long spell. Um But the Always. And it was the idea.

1:34:36 We always were able to beat the best team. And that was the idea. Because that's a constant Thing. The next best, the next best, we can beat you, we can beat you, be the best.

1:34:47 You know, you are the one everybody wants to beat. I love that. So and that's Net Spen and stuff like this I was never too worried about. We had all these conversations. Yeah. I I was I was happy with how it was. I couldn't have discussions with people, it no I can decide how much money be spent. So just not possible. And Arnest Lott cannot decide how much money spent. That's how it is. You do do there are other people who decide that and if you have the money then you spend four really good players what Liverpool did this year. And I think it was it was the right thing to do. And

1:35:19 I'm pretty sure. One specific moment changed the whole transfer window. Yeah, that was the The saddest. Okay.

1:35:29 Of of last year. Um And How do you? How do you Replace.

1:35:37 Somebody like Jogo. It's not about the player itself, it's about the He was he he was good with absolutely everybody. Absolutely everybody.

1:35:54 His He arrived, he had no real if I think he was a bit surprised that we approached him, that we asked for him, and then he came and then we he delivered from day one. I remember still when I saw him the first time playing four wolves. He said, Phew. What's that? When I went to the you always hear these stories when people tell me and it's it's true that Moose Aladdin had to convince me and stuff like this, not convinced that I take him, but it was like there were other players as well, and Mo was one of the others, and then we we decided all together for Moore, but it's fine. But this nobody came to me and told me.

1:36:27 Come on. Let's have a look at Yoga Jota. I saw him and I said Please. And that's and he he he

1:36:36 He excelled all the expectations as as a guy, super smart, super super teammate. And now He sits in a dressing room and I I cannot imagine right now the dressing room without him being there. That's As so har it's so hard. I still cannot speak properly about it. It's it's really like that. It was a an incredible shock. And that's for the boys as well. I and I don't We could think we don't speak about it because otherwise some Bad journalists make a story of it, what I said about him and how it what it means.

1:37:08 Nobody at Liverpool will ever use it as an excuse. But It is the situation you walk every day in this room where he was omnipresent. He was Can you imagine he

1:37:22 To to to to talk about Timmy, he w he was so close with James with James Milner. They're not the same age group, they're nothing the same. It's just he was so but on the other side very close with Costas Simicas. That's like Mount and Mar uh um uh moon and Mars. So That's it. There was him.

1:37:40 As a per on a personal level. Yeah. Not easy. Impossible. And now as a club. Take all the the emotional stuff out and think how do we replace him? And you have to think about that. Wow.

1:37:53 That's difficult. Impossible, I would say. And now we charge the transfer window where they buy the players. That was not the plan, I'm pretty sure. That too. That he had to get to um Replaced?

1:38:07 Do you remember where you were when you heard the news? Yeah. I got a message in the morning. Plus I have bad news. And then I got the and I got the message.

1:38:19 From a from a friend from Liverpool. And I I Couldn't believe it. I John's not possible. I heard it

1:38:30 And and know what it means, but I couldn't believe it. The whole story. I saw all the pictures obviously from the wedding and all the boys were there and and stuff like that and it was so Well, only before that and um Yeah.

1:38:46 I know exactly where I was. I was I was exactly how long I sat there without speaking a word. Oh. It it is it is his it is a family member. It is exactly like that. So look it's it's r it's really like that you have it's it's an example

1:39:08 For the things you have to deal with without knowing at all. You cannot be prepared to deal with things like that. And today we we talk about uh The transfer one of Liverpool that would have looked completely different. Yeah. So you have to sort

1:39:25 You d never expect that, yet you have to think about. Everybody wanted this boy. To play the next. Ten years. At Liverpool. All around player.

1:39:37 All positions. Can play, put postmart. On July the third, two thousand twenty five Diego was killed in a car crash alongside his brother in Spain. Before then he had got married to his partner? And he had several beautiful children.

1:39:54 He he said of you, he said the first time you and him met. He just felt Your presence. He said I think that's one of his main characteristics, the way you can You can just feel him.

1:40:04 Only with his Presence. And Diego went on to be incredibly successful under your Leadership at Liverpool. Yeah.

1:40:14 It's true. Yeah, same. I could say the same. I could say the same about him. I was as impressed. With his presence. Very sp very special.

1:40:24 Very special. Young man. Have to say. How much of a role do Does a manager like you play in the transfer window? This is something that's always speculated by the fans. Do you remember the first when I came and told me about a transfer committee?

1:40:42 I never had the they they told me that uh the journalists ask me, uh, because they implemented a transfer committee because they didn't want to have the man that the manager's debt. Decisive in a transfer window, obviously before me there was some issues. Yeah. Is there no problem with that? I can discuss with everyone.

1:40:59 As long as no player signs for the club I don't want. I'm used to not getting all the players I want. That's completely normal. It's not up to the coaches and we say we're need one that play and I say, Yeah, it's too expensive then you can ask again, sorry Can we make it happen? Um

1:41:14 knowing they all try absolutely everything to get the right price and get the player in. You cannot do anything with that. That Anybody in a club would bring in a player you don't you don't agree on. That does that that's not possible. But it's very, very normal in in a football court to manage the life.

1:41:31 That you don't get all the players you want. So No problem with that. As long as the transfer window is open. You try to Create build the best possible squad.

1:41:43 On the Day after the transfer window. You have the best possible squad, whichever transfers you made, and that's the way you go into the rest of the season. Michael Edwards left during your tenure. He was uh sort of one of the key people that that was

1:41:59 Responsible for looking for players? And and signing them? And he's back now. So first and foremost, before I don't want to say anything else because I really have a really good relationship. Michael was absolutely great in what he's doing. Um, but it was not on one day his job alone to bring in players. There were a lot of other Junior Board Ian Graham.

1:42:20 Um so many the people they were involved in in in the Berry Hunter Oh, these kind of things were involved in these kind of things. It was a process. We were really we were really close together. It's not one sitting there and m being the genius and having producing ideas and anything. Oh? Might. Called.

1:42:36 Mm. He's available. I didn't even know him. He's yeah, so like we know f we know football players. Like

1:42:44 negotiating, finding the right moment to sell, finding the right moment to buy That's a sporting director's job, but he was before and now is I don't even know exactly the role. Something in the holding company to put so Richard Us is now there doing an incredible job. Um so th these kind of things it's it's it's really it's all in a idle world So like people from outside. A idolizing sometimes people like that definitely some of them with me. May they do with Michael, but Michael never did a job alone. I never did a job alone. Um, it was always like a

1:43:17 A really good. Yeah. They work together just really well. We didn't have a lot of disagreements where you think Boof.

1:43:27 Where's that coming from? Why you want him? It's a process. And football team is an open book. Everybody can read it every day. So if you want to add something, it should not be a surprise to everybody. I think, ah Where's that idea coming from? You think we need a left back. Why? We have already four. That doesn't happen. You are it's a work on progress all the time during a season, but the transfer windows It class, obviously. And English People in professional football enjoy D Day a bit more than probably in other countries. Um so

1:44:01 That's what I didn't get that t to a full extent, but um I learned Um A lot. About the excitement of a good transfer window. Did you always get on with them?

1:44:12 Yeah. I I would say one hundred percent, and Michael definitely and Richard, I don't know. We've spoke quite a few times after um after I left. Um, so I like him. So and I think they did an incre they did an incredible job, honestly.

1:44:24 Because you became Bigger than Uh the the coach. Such a huge I mean, you still are such a huge figure in the in the city. I mean my my assistant who's been with me, my P has been with me for ten years. She's from Liverpool and she sh I'm probably gonna embarrass her now.

1:44:40 You're like The king. Uh. Not even in Liverpool, you're the king. globally. Exactly. If I was if I was a Michael Edwards or someone else at the club and I was trying to I that you have you had ultimate power. Kind of like

1:44:55 Sir Alex Ferguson. He became It's uh you know, he was everything. He is the state he's on the stadium, he is the club. So I I I always wondered how anyone would be able to overturn your opinion or argue with you when you are the city. You're like You're the great Jurgen Clock.

1:45:11 But that's the outside world. Come on. I'm an idiot. I don't I don't sit there and and I always said I need other people Two. understand things. It's like I my own IP opinion. I know already.

1:45:25 Well. The morning I get up, I know my opinion, so come on. How can you get a a better view on it on things? That's how it is. It's just by discussing with people. Yes, the final decision I have to make, and I have no problem with that. But for that I need all people being really involved. And if you want to have an argument, have an argument. In the end I will make the decisions. Absolutely problem. Did we have argument? Maybe yes. I don't remember them. But it's not important because it's just in the end, it's it's about the outcome. It's about what is best for the club. And I never had a problem with that. I'd never thought They all have to please me. So

1:45:59 I Realized. How famous I am M. After I left Liverpool.

1:46:06 I have no clue. I was never in Liverpool out there. On and on the bus it's normal that the people cheer because we they're everybody is they cheer for everybody. So I realized how good I was as a coach since I'm not in a job anymore. So because I thought what I can do everybody can do. And I realized maybe not. So it's i it's one hundred percent the truth. Because in the job you just to try to sort Every day. The things in front of you. That's what you try. Can I ask you about newness? He he didn't seem very happy on your last your last day.

1:46:37 Darwin. Darwin. Yeah. We had a absolutely good relationship as good as can be with a striker is not scoring as often as he wants. as the people want and as I think he could have And

1:46:52 With a striker who didn't play as often as definitely he wants. So how can you have a fantastic relationship? Is would it be if he would s would I don't I didn't see that picture, I heard about it. If he would have stand there and be the number one and jumping after me, crying his eyes out and and and hugging me for ten minutes. I was okay. What's going on here? completely normal situation. I cannot My first concern cannot be to please everybody. It's just not possible.

1:47:22 It's not possibly net job. Easy. The the first problem starts with Twenty five players. Eleven starting positions.

1:47:31 So So more players are not happy than you make happy. So that you have to get through this. And I'm pretty sure he had super moments Mm. At Liverpool, we had super moments together. And in my last day, if I would have been him, I would have thought as well.

1:47:50 Okay. Come on, the next one is a new chance for me. Because players do that. If if it's if it goes really well for them, it's not that they think Thanks to the coach. If it's not going well. They think.

1:48:03 Okay. It doesn't bring me often enough, it's not my fault. Baba, all these kind of We are humans, we are all the same. So it's not that they are special in that moment and some of them think yeah, I have to do more. I have to do more for the week one, week two, week three, and then thing Now it did three weeks more, it's still not pick it's not picking me. So It's this it's it's a bit You cannot have always harmony and and and flowers and all these kind of things. That's a competitive environment and you need to perform to get

1:48:32 What you think you deserve. When did you decid did you decide that you wanted to sign Darwin? How is that how did that decision? Exactly like before, we decided it all to all together involved in that in that process. And yes, that's how it is nowadays. Uh we would have loved to sign him For lesser money. Of course.

1:48:52 But it it was in that moment not possible. We needed a strike. We own we wanted to have An an extra like an extra option? For Striker, like we had Bobby always the the best false nine in the world. Yeah. And now we needed somebody with a bit more speed and stuff like this. We need uh the actions uh more and and stadium. I'm not sure I'm sure the salary was still there.

1:49:14 Probably not. So Sonia win that year. Yeah, I think Sony went that yeah. So we had to we had to change as well. So it'll be Luis Diaz great, Cody Gakbook great. What kind of player we don't have. I thought Cody can play a little bit like Bobby. good footballer on the side but feels much better on the on the on the wing All these kind of things. So Yeah, of course we all sign him together, no problem.

1:49:36 Maybe didn't work out as good as it could. But Without Darwin Eunice, so many things wouldn't have happened. Uh

1:49:46 Biggest comeback of all times at Newcastle. For itself. I love that day. Yeah. Just give me fifteen seconds to explain how you can build a viable business online. The people I see winning in life don't have a perfect plan. They just take the first step and then the next and then they keep going.

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1:50:44 Dot store. We launch these conversation cards and they sold out. And we launch them again and they sold out again. We launch them again and they sold out again. Because people love playing these with colleagues at work, with friends at home, and also with family. And we've also got a big audience that use them as journal prompts. Every single time a guest comes on the door of a CEO, they leave a question for the next guest. in the diary. And I've sat here with some of the most incredible people in the world. And they've left all of these questions in the diary. And I've ranked them from one to three in terms of the depth. One being a starter question and level three, if you look on the back here, this is a level three, becomes a much deeper question. That builds even more connection. If you turn the cards over and you scan that QR code, you can see who answered the card.

1:51:29 And watch the video of them answering it in real time. So if you would like to get your hands on some of these conversation cards, go to thediary.com or look at the link in the description below. Why did you leave why did you leave Liverpool? I I watched your videos. Um

1:51:43 Y announcing your departure so many times and I was almost trying to read between the lines. Oh. No, I was just you know,'cause you talk about

1:51:53 Just the energy, not having the energy for it. That's kind of how I was interpreting it, you know. You you sat down with your board, your board talked about plans for next year, and you realised in that moment that You didn't have the energy to rebuild and go again, et cetera. No no not to rebuild.

1:52:13 He's a good team, John. My expectation of myself is I'm I'm I I'm I'm the energy giver to everybody in in this environment. Like I that what I what my if somebody struggled come on. Okay, I have mine, but I don't need it. Let's go.

1:52:27 I have to be on top of absolute top of my game to be the guy who deserves to be the Liverpool manager. That's what I said when I said they when I feel, uh Oh that anymore, then I don't So that I say.

1:52:41 Okay, let's wait until it's not a little bit more. Everybody sees it and then they can give me the second and la la la all these kind of things. I cannot do it like that. Not after the time we had together. I realized I don't want to be there after all the time we had together. I want I don't want to be the guy, I don't want to go on tour uh to you say big why? Because it wasn't I loved it all the every day. So it's then You're real fool. I need a break whatever I need to have.

1:53:07 something else. And you cannot do that in that business. You cannot say Ladies and gentlemen. Give me a year, see you later. And to d it it's just not like that. And I really think we we we did what we had to do to to to say What.

1:53:22 We felt And thought in that moment. And it was exactly like that. I didn't have What's next? Didn't want to think about what's next. I just wanted to

1:53:33 to go. I was happy with finishing the season. But then don't ask me. What can we do here, what can we do there, what can we it was all my responsibility for all the time because yes I don't decide money, but all the rest, it was in my hands from a specific moment on. Covid kicked in, no sporting director Michael came after I after I left. It was not there anymore. It not it was not because we had a problem or whatever, not at all. Um it was just They wanted to find a leader for the for the pact and found that with Michael and and and Richard.

1:54:08 And Arne obviously now working really close together. So that what was was the was the decision. But there was a time There was no Richard, no Michael, no Julian Ward. So it was just Me sitting there.

1:54:21 Um Like on the top of all the the things and uh we had to win football games, but all the rest was on my plate as well. It was an intense time. There wasn't a structure around you in that regard. Uh, COVID changed a lot. It's I mean people didn't fly as much anymore. Um the owners didn't come that often over. It was like Batchet cards were on the phone.

1:54:45 Uh from more or less. And we brought in Jörg Schmattke at German, because we didn't have a spoiling direct at the time. Julian came back, but then Um Well I don't even know exactly why why he left again. So th these kind of things that just happened.

1:55:00 And the only guys who were over there were we, the coaches and the football team. So they were just the normal stuff over a day. So he was doing the sporting director stuff? Yeah. us and and together with in that one in that one window with I think it was with Jörg Schmatke, the John guy we brought over.

1:55:17 I I don't even know if Julian Ward was still there. The lawyers The scouts. So Um

1:55:25 Do you think you could ever go back and manage Liverpool again? Is that within the realm of possibilities? I said I will never coach another tea uh a different team in uh in England, so that means Even Yeah, it's Liverpool.

1:55:39 Yeah. So Yeah. Theoretically it's possible. What would it take?

1:55:45 theoretically for you to want to do that. Psychologically must be I I love what I do right now. I don't miss coaching. I don't. I mean I do coach but just different. Not not not players. So and I don't miss it. I don't miss standing in the rain.

1:56:07 two and a half, three hours. Um and and I don't miss Going to press conference. Four. Times. Three times a week.

1:56:18 Having Twelve? Ten, twelve interviews a week? I don't miss that. I don't. So

1:56:28 I don't miss being in the dressing room, like in a sense of that I didn't have it often. I've I coached one thousand eighty something games. So I was in a dress room very, very often and I don't wanna die in a dressing room just because so nice. It smells. So it's it's it's it's these kind of things. So but there might be something I'm eight fifty eight. That's from your perspective old. From other perspective, from the other side, it's not that old. That means I could make the decision in a few years. I don't know. Do I have to make the decision today? I will not coach again. But thank God I don't have to do that. I can just see what the future brings. But now I'm in involved in a project I really love and I love the people I'm working together with.

1:57:13 And the clubs we are responsible for, and the countries the clubs are in. So I like Doing what I'm doing right now. And in my mind Only if I'm Focus one hundred percent on it, I can do it.

1:57:28 Really good, and that's what I always want to do to you. To do. Those are the things you don't miss. What do you miss? Some sometimes people

1:57:37 So Yeah. I I I wish I So that's I don't miss the dressing room as a dressing room, but sitting there in a restaurant With the players and having a a nice chat. That it's nice.

1:57:52 It was always nice. We won a lot of games and so like w there was a often a very good mood in the in the in the building. And standing there hearing them laugh. I c I s still have virtuals laugh in my ear, for example. Yes, this kind d this part of the of the job. It's is obviously And but I'm that's for these players which I had the last time. It's now um Do I miss it in general with football players? Not right now. It's not like that. But I

1:58:24 There is there's really not a lot, to be honest with I miss, because I'm still In the business I I I know most about So the football part

1:58:35 I don't miss because I have it. And the only thing is like the don't have to s be outside. I'm not The guy in the chair before a game and stuff like this. No, I I honestly that's it that's probably the best example. I don't miss anything. That's how it is. When I look at your career

1:58:52 Mines, Dortmund, Liverpool. Seem to always. Be successful. And th it's it's extremely rare. It's extremely rare. And you seem to also always succeed with a lot of passion and all those things. But my question is, uh I think about the audience we have, which are often business people, leaders, CEOs. Is there anything else that we haven't touched upon that is central to your idea of getting the best out of a group of people? We talked about

1:59:18 being a sort of bespoke leader, being the jigsa piece you need to be to get the best out of a person. We talked about giving everything. Is there anything else that's really central central to your philosophy of leadership? And management. Uh You think is important that we haven't

1:59:32 Touched upon yet. That young coaches might be able to create create the best team. Possible. Um I mean in in understanding of the team. Like really, there's there must be a reason why this team wins and not the other team, because there are other teams out there. They try absolutely everything. So don't waste time with

1:59:51 walking next to each other, not knowing anything about each other, not being bothered about the problems of each other, not being interested about each other. No, no, no. I want to grow together. And it was my job to help them to grow, to create situation where they could do that. to make sure and if I had to be harsh to all of them that they found a way to get together, I did that. It was not what I said, it was what they needed to understand why we are a very special team in a Very Hard And difficult competition.

2:00:20 But we have to find a reason why we deserve it more than others. Yes. That's what I what I say, what you have to do. And that's what I People want to convince today with knowledge.

2:00:31 They wanna say, I know everything about that. I can tell you I can explain it to you, sir. But it's in the end, that's one thing and other people can know as well. It's about how close can we really grow together to go out there. And smash. Yeah. Whatever out of them. So that's the that's the the the thing what but what what I wanted to what I always did. So it was always clear.

2:00:55 For us. We would Bok I don't know. We will go through fire. I'm not sure if we say that anything, but we really would do absolutely everything. And without me telling every day to find it to to find a way to grow as much together, that was obvious. How do I get people to walk through fire?

2:01:11 So y you're talking about making sure the bonds amongst themselves are strong? I heard stories of you making sure everybody knew everybody's name when you first arrived and Things like stuff. The staff names, et cetera. What were you doing to get people to walk through fire? And that's exactly that's exactly that's a good question and there's no answer for the question because it means it it would mean you say w you say one thing and

2:01:33 For everybody. Run. That's not like that. You have to create a culture, a s an an environment, a situation Uh a wipe. Well everybody realised this is special.

2:01:45 The underlining message is this is special and now let's go for it. This is worth it. This it means really more to all of us that we really can fight more for it. What is special? The togetherness, the way we we had we we the the way we And the the people can say that's in our club the same, but the way we interacted in the training ground with the kitchen stuff, with the with uh the respect we

2:02:10 We showed every day with the kidmen, with the gardeners, with all the people there. For me Most important. Because you just you just realize that's the res the respect you show is the respect you get. You can't show respect, you don't deserve any. So that's how it is. And you don't have it's not a lesson in the sense of that I tell you sit here. You have to respect the gardener?

2:02:32 And then the other people will respect you as well. You don't do it like that. It's just you learn. That Show respect, you get respect. Don't show respect, you don't deserve it. So all these little things over there. That's not a big thing. It's not that every day I go for them and tell them why is this different? Why is that different. The way you deal with situations, we found a way for us. that the most important information about the game was what I said.

2:02:58 And not boss in the media, not boss in social media. When I said It was good. It was good. There were still all the things out there were written. But that th that were not important anymore. When I said it was not good then could they write Yeah, but you want three nil and then we found a way to talk about it and and worked on it. We created our own

2:03:17 Well in that time which was more important Then The outside world. I was No.

2:03:24 Being respectful to the gardener. Going to Lose you the Champions League. What is the the three lines? I believe just in if you cannot do that, if you don't appreciate what th what what other people do, then you can't appreciate what your teammate is doing. If you don't it that's just a little sign. It's not that of course there's not direct impact from here to there. But in the end I'm pretty sure if we would really have a

2:03:47 A brief look at it. In one or two situations. Like don't you know. And then you go back to to the to the beginning with Yeah, because he isn't. I can tell you. I I'm fascinated by this point because when I was um Oh, when I was at all traffic and

2:04:03 the ladies who serve the food in the la in the Boxes and lounges. When I'd ask them what was different after Fergie left. The thing they kept saying to me was, Oh, it's just so different round here and I'd say, W Explain to me how they'd go, I don't know, just f Silence folks and just knew our names.

2:04:19 Yeah. That's what they would say. And it's a strange thing to hear that the only Symptom. that some of the staff in the stadium could point at was just The new leadership don't know our names. Yeah, but this is obviously not the answer to the men united problems. That's just the situation with the the ladies or whoever working in that in that area. But it shows if that doesn't then you don't know theoretically their names. What it shows is the togetherness is not there anymore. It starts already there.

2:04:46 Yes, Alex. It's just different. And then you Not on day one. But after twenty three years, of course he was different. Of course he knew your name. He saw you growing up. So how can you compare That.

2:04:59 This was under and Edward Wood just for the context, this wasn't under any also Amarim, this was before then a couple of years ago. Yeah. And I just always found that to be for me that w as a b business leader. became a really interesting reference point because it, as you said, it's just a downstream symptom of something where the club has gone from feeling like a family and special and You know, close and tight and these values

2:05:22 to the decay of the values and it's from all the way down to the The stream. At the bottom. But this is this is a generation discussion, isn't it? Like you you in in the past and again I'm not that old that I say in the past everything was better, for sure not, but we are differently. Raised.

2:05:40 That's how it is. I came home. I walked home in a one thousand two hundred people village. I had a four hundred meter walk from the bus station to my home. I walked home, obviously a lady crossed my way. I didn't can remember it. I arrived at home after two hundred meters, aga more meters than My mom said, Why you didn't say hello to Mr So and so? Mm. Yeah. What?

2:06:06 So hey is that does does that help me in life? I'm not sure. It's just how you get re It's just how you get ready. So I didn't run back and say, Sorry, hello. But next time believe me. It leaded to in my life where everybody r a lot of people recognize me. For me difficult not to say hello to people because of that. But I start obviously getting attention. If I can't get through something and now I'm about to say Hello, that doesn't work properly for me anymore, but it's still in me. One thing is the things we read, the other thing is the things we feel, the other thing is the w how we get treated.

2:06:38 We all are the the result. Of a lot of things. And as long as we are together, let's make sure that we influence each other as positive. As somehow possible.

2:06:50 And let's see. Well it leads us to. That's the idea. I have. A lot of m managers or leaders or CEOs would focus on tactics and strategy first and foremost.

2:07:00 And as you say, the information and all those things. But it appears that you focus somewhere else. Not first. Same time. It's not first. It's not same time. It's it's same time.

2:07:11 I Twenty four hours a day. Two hours time for training. There's not a lot more you can do. Maybe you have another in the pre season definitely more another session, two hours, four hours. Twenty hours left.

2:07:23 Seven eight hours sleep. Twelve more hours. Welcome. What can we do with that? That's become the best group we can be.

2:07:30 So that's I'm one hundred percent interested in. Definitely. The best group we can be. Yeah. That's those relationships, those values. Yeah. And were there any particular changes you made to how the team interacted with each other? I know that um that the Ineos guys told me at Manchester United they've changed the like canteen so that

2:07:49 People don't sit on separate tables now and the team are together when they eat. Just small things like this that some people might think are inconsequential. Are there any things that you changed? Any rules or policies? I don't like this. Obvious things too much.

2:08:06 You don't like each other. And the size of the table makes no difference. To be honest. I don't say that's not important. I don't I don't see the the real effect I I want to

2:08:21 Reach it in a different way. I want to To introduce them to each other. In a specific way on the pitch, by the way. That's where it starts because we are a football team, we are not a community and just sit there and drink tea and and eat biscuits. It's a it's a real competitive environment and it's all to get the best out of the boys on the football pitch. So

2:08:45 Rules pitch. Rules dressing room. But then there's so many Things left and right of the rules. There's so many things you can do together. There's so much to talk about. So much to know about. And that's what life is. Otherwise we just live next to each other. And we don't benefit from each other. That makes no sense. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but my general understanding from football team is

2:09:07 football team you can be. This is the This is as important as tactics. as in partners tactics. They can have the best tactics the the guys don't respect, don't like each other, nobody will see them ever.

2:09:22 Ever. So If the worst take this by the law of each other, Boy. They still can win?

2:09:28 That's possible. Ile World. Great team. Good coach. You have a good chance to be successful.

2:09:39 I have I have two pictures that we haven't shown yet, but this this particular picture is of Elizabeth. Yeah. Mama. Yeah, Mama. Yeah.

2:09:49 Two thousand eleven we became champion with Dortmund. My home. Club. S V. My elder sister.

2:10:01 Wrote a poem. My mom. Couldn't have been prouder. Obviously. Uh.

2:10:10 That day I saw my teammates from my first football team, they were all there. Nobody would have thought that somebody from there But arrive where was there. Yeah, great day.

2:10:23 Really nice woman. I have to say. She she passed away in two thousand twenty one, um, after falling ill. Yeah.

2:10:33 Because of everything that was going on at the time with the pandemic, you weren't able to attend her funeral because of the travel restrictions and all those kinds of things. Yeah she did get to see your Your success. That's a big difference. So I was not in a funeral and that was the the Sounds crazy. The online funeral was one of the sadest things I I experienced in my life.

2:10:57 Um, but they made it happen at least, that was good that we could see it, that we could be part of it, we couldn't be there. My mom had in the end had dementia, so it's not that she would have known that I was not there when she was lying there. She was uh that that uh Not a nice thing, but she saw the maturity of My working life, if you want. My dad didn't see my coaching life, so that's It's the

2:11:27 There's no p d nothing is perfect, uh, but mom was Was super happy. could remember us and see us and um recognize us. And the time when he could when she couldn't do that anymore.

2:11:43 Yeah. That's not too long. But That's uh Can't wait for the day when somebody finds a solution for these kind of things.

2:11:52 Uh for these kind of diseases and um Because in UH obviously don't think about it, but if you come old on it, think Who dies today just Of a heart attack. And not by having already dementia or or stuff like this, and don't recognize the kids anymore and stuff like this, you don't want that.

2:12:12 You just can't get through this by ignoring the fact and hoping That's science will find a way until we get there. Yeah. She she started to lose her her memories of Her family.

2:12:30 Because of dementia. Yeah. So like the normal things on phone she didn't know she didn't recognize my voice. First.

2:12:40 This is uh This is a strange strange. You close so many doors. And open to others.

2:12:49 So long time memory. Incredible. She recognized ladies in the street, they were together in primary school, stuff like this, but didn't know. We were just these kind of things. It's not it's not a competition of things you you forget or whatever. There are a lot of things you forget and for especially for the people and that was my sisters who took care of her, obviously. That's not nice if she don't recognize you. Why you bow go away. These things.

2:13:17 How is that to deal how is that to deal with as a family member when someone you love, a a parent can no longer Recognize Who you are. It sounds like a grief as a heartbreak. Yeah. I think my but obviously my ha my sisters were around. Um so but then much harder.

2:13:35 Of course, because they were around. For me It's not a problem at all because I knew She lost me more than our life. In a moment she can recognize me anymore, it it was not a problem for me, I just felt for her. That is a that is really

2:13:49 And it's really so that's so hard. Must be so hard if you have Bright moments where it's you oh. I know, Oh my God, you are here, what are you doing here? And then it's it's really it's really not nice. And I I I I I really sincerely hope that we find. Um Yeah.

2:14:05 medication for that. I think science is uh in a g in a yeah, in a good way. But still a l a long way to go. But thanks for this picture. Yeah. Thank you very much.

2:14:20 Faith is a a big part of your life as well. Yeah. You believe in God. Yeah. And from what I understood, that's not always been the case. When you're a younger man, you weren't Religious in the same way that you are now? Is that accurate or

2:14:33 I'm say I'm religious. I I believe. Uh but I don't but I don't know one hundred percent what religious means, to be one hundred percent honest. But it's um This lady, my mom. Um, prayed every night before going to bed. But the problem uh that the one thing we prayed, the other thing she said, because she couldn't be hard with me. She could she just had no weapons. The only thing she could say is don't forget if you do that again.

2:14:54 I will have to tell the dad at the weekend when he's coming back. So it was like the only threat she had. The only weapon she she carried around. Um obviously was smart enough to realise that whatever I did, she never told my dad. Um Um from time that I went to church I had a a s a a short spell Why I thought because Sunday morning church was when I played games, I have to go to church. I'm not I cannot play football anymore, but that lasted exactly one game. So Bon Sunday. They thought God cannot be that hard. He cannot think that

2:15:30 I have to go I love football so much. It cannot that's ch it can't be like that. Um

2:15:39 And he isn't unisure, so um Yeah, I found my way. For me it's For me it's To live

2:15:49 Together. We have to make sure that we That we don't think the only thing what is interesting is my own Well being we have to make sure that we really understand being alone in a good position doesn't help.

2:16:01 Yes, it's completely normal that we all try. to get as fast as we can in our career, in our life and all these kind of things. But it's really important that we make sure that we that we really try to to work properly together, to live properly together and all these kind of things. For me This is my faith. It's based on my m this this This understanding is based on my faith. So

2:16:24 And and common sense, obviously. Uh and that's the way I believe. And um I think that's the best thing you can say about religion. When it's like that. That it keeps people In a good place if religion can do that.

2:16:40 Then It's not the right religion for me. So it's really about that. We have to be tolerant. We have to It's no problem. It's a wonderful planet. It's a wonderful World we are living in.

2:16:51 But it's not for one or two, it's for all of us and we have to make sure that that works out. And I think The right faith. Can help you. With that.

2:17:02 But I don't I don't know what is the right space. I w only know what is for me. So Yeah. For me it's the right thing to do. And I never doubted it. To be honest.

2:17:12 With all the information you get all li in life. God is real. For me. And um And Jesus, of course. Um

2:17:22 Yeah. What goals have you got left to accomplish? Yeah again, what it what's what is left on your list, if anything, at all? Because you've got you're right, you're probably halfway through your life, the way things are going in terms of people The life expectancy increasing. Halfway through one hundred sixteen, we have the next podcast. Yeah. I want to

2:17:40 Travels what we're doing. Start now. I want to be together with Ulla as much as I can, but not not that much that she Oh I don't wanna be around each other anymore because I really think you you see people and think, What is your husband doing? Oh God. So no no no, I'm not that but I'm very busy, so I'm I'm a lot away. So that's fine. But I won't spend with her, with the kids, with the grandkids. I don't have this kind of ambitions. I wanna do really well for Red Bull. really well. I'm I'm I feel already responsible for all the people I work together with. That's a

2:18:12 Very interesting. Thing for me I feel so quick, really responsible, but I do So I wanna do it as good as we can, have the best time possible. Let's see what happens then. But on a private basis I can tell you. With other things happening around. Stay healthy and enjoy the this part of life.

2:18:30 Because you know now most things happened and most things were really good. There was another time Um you're not sure where you want to go, where where where can What's possible, how safe you will be, um and all these kind of things, where will you live in the future? And so I know where we will live, I know how things worked out, that's really good. I'm not that old that I cannot move, so move. And try and do sports and travel and all these kind of things. So I

2:18:59 I'm more than happy with the things how they How they And out how they happened. I'm really, really happy. I'm surprised. how my career was. I I never thought that and you cannot plan it and and stuff like this. I'm super happy with my private life.

2:19:18 How it is, super happy with the misses, super happy with the kids, super happy with the grandkids. It's all really good. So what can you want more really without sounding ridiculous? That you think oh You always still want that?

2:19:31 And the rest is job and the job I've always wanted to do as somehow possible. And That's still the case. Did he men United then? If you ever want a job at a football club, Manchester United would uh Yeah, yeah, yeah. After all the time you spent together, yeah, you wanna tell me that

2:19:58 Yeah. No, but you know, it's um It's really it's really interesting to me because I think there's always a an assumption that people want to continue to I don't I then I don't understand it. Do the same, you do because that's what you are good at.

2:20:11 I know I'm good as a manager. I know. So why should I I don't have to prove that, not even to me. I have to prove that. I I can raise my hand and tomorrow I can Coach.

2:20:21 Clip. X, Y, and Z. Clubs who are happy now with sector manager and I don't want that. So So

2:20:28 But to be my best friend. That might come back that I say, Okay. I read it that might. I don't know today, but in this moment it's not that I cannot do what I do. Why think it with on like Being still there. I was never like that. I never w looked right or left when I was at Mainz. I could have Change the club every year.

2:20:47 Yeah. It was so obvious that something is going on there pretty special that the clubs wanted We want to have him. And I never thought a second that I want to go there. I wanted to stay at Mainz, to to to do what we do and to learn what I thought I have to learn. Same at Dortmund, same at Liverpool. Until I thought

2:21:06 It's not right. If that comes again. Let's see what we can what we will do. That's what the decision I wanted. I won't didn't want to make the job until I barely can move, I barely can travel, I barely He says, Can you help me? I don't want I didn't want to do that.

2:21:21 Yeah, we're sitting and yes, I'm twenty five years older than you. But we both could probably run around the the corner now and it would not be the biggest difference. You're in great shape. Yeah, that's it. Because I train. Uh that's how it is. But I never did while I was a manager. That's the next thing. I just grew more and more and more. And I'll

2:21:41 Uh we have time for that as well. No. It's good how it is. Well you um Even as a United fan, you you brought so much to the Premier League that it was

2:21:51 It was weirdly sad, also very happy, when you decided that you were gonna leave. I mean, it I I felt two feelings at the same time. I felt very, very happy that this was this Liverpool era. in my view was over because I thought there's no way Uh you leaving the you're more than just a manager, you're the spirit of the city. You're the spirit of the fan base. You actually sort of personify the Liverpool fan base in my mind extremely passionate. All in togetherness. And as you know, your former I think he was your chairman or owner of mine said you did, you brought you brought the team together.

2:22:22 You then brought the city together. And that had a profound impact both on Liverpool but also on the Premier League and on my enjoyment and my misery. as a rival fan, and that's a really, really remarkable thing. You've also inspired me as a lot on a personal level as a leader. Just about, you know, everything you said there about how important it is to focus equally on

2:22:42 the people and the team and the togetherness, and not just on the tactics and the strategy and how passion can be an wonderful accelerant for performance and for Feeling like this is special. And that's something that I think you've personified as a leader. We um We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for.

2:23:03 Oh. And the question is for me know the message. Yes. Oh. Question that's been left. For you. As you look back on your career.

2:23:17 Is there a particular moment, a particular conversation? A particular day. That if you could, you would go back and change. Or say something. You wish.

2:23:28 You had said. I Honestly. The problem is I would s no probably would say no.

2:23:37 I don't I wouldn't go back and and and try to change it because it wouldn't have a big impact. The situations we had The big situations I could influence with the things I said. The specific moments which were then decisive. You just stand there and watch. Aguero.

2:23:58 And Oh no then. We have the same problem with United you ever think that he scored the ball goes in or the ball is over the line for eleven millimeters or not. That has nothing to do with what I say. Would I wish if I could go there. And give it a little push.

2:24:14 Yes. What I wish. James Madison would block the shot of Vincent Company that he cannot score the goal against Leicester. Yes, but it had nothing to do with what I said. And so

2:24:27 The things I said I said in a moment. For the right reasons. Um And sometimes they had to impact I wished. And wanted and sometimes.

2:24:40 Not. Yeah. I had to accept that. That was the other thing that um Jane Carast.

2:24:48 He said when you see when you see ask him how he feels about His former assistant manager, Pep Lingers, going and working, doesn't it? Going and working at Manchester City. No problem.

2:25:03 Uh with that um I work together with Pep Lindus. He was an inspiration for me every day when we worked together. Absolutely every day. I learned a lot from him. M and and Pep Gardiola, I couldn't respect a a manager more. Um And when they ask me.

2:25:20 Like a bit. What do you think can we? Course you can. Pap Linus is that come on find a guy who worked together with Pep Linus and uh Pep Cardiola and Jürgen Club. Hm.

2:25:30 I would read the book. Uh And yeah, and Pep knew exactly Pep um Gaudilla knew exactly what he was looking for. Yeah. He wanted exactly this kind of Um Spark fire from

2:25:47 And and Pep has that Pep is uh Pep Linders has that he's An extreme well of of energy and um so I'm happy for them both. We're playing you guys, um, this week, this weekend. On Sunday.

2:26:02 What? Manchester United Love. Manchester United Liverpool this Sunday. You didn't know. It's the Anfield. The Premier League. Totally.

2:26:10 That's crazy that you don't know. Yeah. But hopefully after so this will come out just after that. So I'm hoping that's four losses. Oh, we come after that. Yeah. Uh hopefully the day after, but we'll see. Um so hopefully this is your fourth Liverpool's fourth loss in a row. And uh the fan base are growing increasingly impatient and uh annoyed and Amarim is now one, another another game in a row.

2:26:35 So this is this conversation will come out straight after. Wow. Oh. Play in field. Yeah.

2:26:43 Uh yeah. Oh, good luck. They have to strike back, yeah, you know. You know that two days ago so it's it's just in the morning I wake up pretty early in the morning, so I that's I I throw on YouTube and have a look and then it shows me Behind the scenes footage from the seven. The seven Oh gosh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:27:05 And I never saw that. I know I saw it, but it's like the seven hil obviously, I know the goals and stuff, but it's the camera different, it's in the stance, it's it's really good. So okay, fine. I've watched it nine nineteen minutes. Really good. So all the goals again and you see Players in the dressing room, all the way to the dress room. Really good. The next day.

2:27:23 I I open. Now I see the five no. It. And Manchester. So

2:27:32 And it was said. And today I come in here and had no clue that you are Manchester United fan. So I but I was really well prepared for that talk, I have to say. Without knowing. Yeah. Yeah.

2:27:46 Thank you so much, Egan. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you for being an inspiration to me, but also thank you for all that you brought to the North West and to Liverpool. So thanks. Welcome. It was my pleasure. Honestly, thank you so much. And I I've I've learned so much from you as a leader and also as a man and in in the lead up to this, I spoke to so many people around you that worked with you. I contacted Jordan Henderson, I spoke to um Harriger who knows you through uh various people. I think he managed him for one game, he he said in Australia. In the Australia game. And they all said the same thing. They all said that you're the same man on and off the camera. You're a person that brings people together, you're extremely likable, but You have high standards and are an incredibly passionate person. And that the the the narrative was consistently here's the same man on and off camera, um, which is a credit to yourself, and no wonder why people were willing to walk through fire with you.

2:28:30 Yeah. Um it's it's incredible what you've accomplished, and I hope Selfishly as a football fan, I hope we we see you back in the game at some point. Maybe Real Madrid or Manchester, you know, whatever. We never know. You never know. Thank you so much.

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