He made $100m betting on the NBA… here’s how

Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/4d27046300b54502

This was the biggest, greatest edge in the history of gambling edges, I can promise you. I've never uttered this in public to anyone ever before.
You wanna nuke it? Yeah.

I feel like I can rule the world a no way
be what I want to
I put my all in it like a day song. Alright, so let's travel. So we gotta tell your story because your story is
You basically did what
Me and probably fifty percent of other young guys wanted to do in their life, it's like
Oh, what if I could take a few thousand dollars
Find an edge, beat the house in Vegas.
And turn a few thousand dollars into millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars, and ultimately
I believe over hundreds of millions of dollars
V not by counting cards in blackjack, first by uh you know, sports betting.
And then you get recruited by Mark Cuban to go work for an NBA team at one point. You now own your own soccer club. So you've had this like really cool.
Life and career. You're like a comic book character.
Yeah, you're like your man cave came to life, you know? Like it worked. Um that's dope. But
You know, of course, no story is perfect. Uh you know, there's ups and downs, and it's not all not like you planned it out this way. But what we like most on this podcast, this podcast mostly a business podcast, so somebody comes on.
And they tell us about their company or their investments or whatever.
And um but we what we like most is people who play their own game. What I like about you is you play your own game. Um you're pretty independent thinker. And so I want to kind of walk through the story. So
You know what I'll call chapter one.
Is
stumbling into gambling and and f and find figuring out how to have that edge. Can you tell a little bit about that story?
Sa I I think I know a little bit of it, but I know Sam, you don't know any of that story, right? Like how he how he first got and made a name for himself doing this.
No.
Yeah, I mean I grew up around gambling. My dad was
I use the term unsuccessful gambler, some people might refer to it as degenerate.
Uh he was a he was he was someone who gambled a lot.
Unsuccessfully.
And um
you know, had a lot of uh caused a lot of problems in our family.
Uh, not the trigger code, it was bad. But I grew up around the horse race track and I grew up around watching football, NFL football on Sunday.
Basically trying to like help my dad make pics.
What city?
I grew up in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. So I was at the Cinoboya Downs race track.
Um, from I guess it was every Saturday, Sunday, Wednesday.
For most of my
Uh teenage years, I would say twelve to
Sixteen, seventeen, eighteen.
Um and so yeah, I just kinda was around. That's how I kinda and I was a I always thought it to was rather interesting. I also saw like
First thing I didn't realise when I was younger was just how it comp was near impossible to be
The horses just because of the takeout, the Vag is so high.
Like thirty thirty six percent. They gotta pay for everything, the stables, the horse pools, you know, all of it.
Um
But I just thought well these people don't know what they're doing, like they're
You know, like they they have no process, they don't know what's happening, there's
Um, they're very emotional. Like I grew up I'm in Greek family.
So you would hear these people like they just were not in control of their emotions in any way. They'd be upset when they win, they'd upset when they lose. They would be arguing with each other, they'd have a I'm very low key.
So to me, um, it was very different for me.
So that's how I got started.
And then at some point um after I
After I uh graduate from high school
Uh
I went to Vegas with my dad.
He was there.
And um I went there for like a month or so or he was there gambling, like uh like my dad was it it was daylight hours.
And he had money in his pocket, he was gambling.
He was he came he was a a first generate he he moved to Canada when he was
He's got a great you should have him on the show. Uh he's had a great story. He moved to Canada when he was like twenty years old.
Didn't speak a lick of English.
Became a dishwasher at Kentucky fried chicken.
And just worked his ass off.
And so he
Move this way up from dishwasher to restaurant.
To
Finally uh getting involved in real estate somehow by some way, owning a commercial development. He was up he had strip malls all over Winnipeg.
So he's an entrepreneur.
Big time entrepreneur. Yes.
And when you go to Vegas, you're not twenty one, right? You just graduated
From high school, so what do you do with your dad? You're in a casino, you can't really do much. I've parked myself in the sports book.
And hope that nobody tells you. Yeah, you just sit there. But they don't. Like you're just in the sports book. So you're just sitting there, you know, you're and I just watched basketball. It's like the first time I really ever watched NBA basketball to that extent. I was previously I was watching a lot of hockey and
And Canadian football.
And um yeah, my dad would
Give me a little bit of money, not a lot.
And I would watch basketball and I would sit there from four PM Pacific to
ten PM, eleven PM Pacific and just watch the games on these giant T Vs and then
I started to really enjoy the
routine of watching the West Coast games.
So I started to like kind of
pay attention more to the West Coast teams. That was like Chris Weber's rookie year when he played for
Uh Golden State.
Um
And they had uh run TMC, I think it was before that.
Um
And so yeah, that's all I did. Were you were you losing money at at first? Wha what was going on? How did you start making money? I didn't I didn't really win. I wasn't losing a lot though. Like oh I I wasn't
I had an okay opinion by the end, but yeah, I was losing, of course. Like I was probably flipping coins and paying big, so I was like probably.
fifty fifty roughly, but needed you know, but was paying I needed to win eleven to ten. Eleven out of every ten.
So it wasn't bad. It wasn't like I was getting my
Ask handed to me or anything.
Um
But then I realized I really like this and I wanna get good at it. And then I just thought about what do what what does that entail? What do I have to do to get good at it?
And so I just went to work.
And just
Started taping games to start
Reading a lot of newspaper uh articles on the Internet.
When you're when you're saying you're learning to get good at it, um, how much of it is a human side where you're like learning human emotions of like the players and leadership and things like that and like the story.
versus uh statistics. Yeah, back then there was not
A lot of good statistics. There was just the uh there's just something called the box score.
Which is just not very important.
It's not very illustrative of the game.
So it was almost that and a little bit of database work in terms of like just getting aggregates from teams in certain situations.
I'm also
tried to like really also understand the market more, I think.
In other words, the opening lines with OS I the what I got to be really good when I was in Vegas around that time was seeing the sharps.
That would line up at the Stardust Casino.
In the morning, they had something called the lottery. So the lines would be posted.
In the morning.
And then
Every sharp would be able to get
make a full limit bet down in the morning and they'd have to do a lottery to see who could go first.
And then they make a bet and then the book would decide to adjust.
So I start just like looking to see like okay, who are the actual sharps? Who are the guys who seem like they're moving money for other people? What are they betting?
So you're treating it like a job. You must have been getting there early then. What time is that?
Yeah, I mean, I mean it's not a lot of work. It's not manual labor. I'm not like laying bricks or like riding off the back of a Bronthosaurus like Fred Flintstone breaking rocks, but
Uh.

And so did you go ask them to learn from them or you just watching them from afar and figuring it out yourself?
I just w wanted to see like okay, this guy made a bet the line didn't move, that's interesting. Then you see him back
Like op the next day and the next day and then
And then you see the by the way it wouldn't just be one, you'd see like now
Yeah.
Four o'clock.
Post time the lines would move even more.
So it's like okay, this this line moved a lot. There wasn't an injury. That guy bet it early.
So it's just like little things, just pat like I think if I have one skill in life aside from being
Um
uh not not really caring what other people who I don't know think about me, I think, and just being confident in that. I think it's like maybe like a little bit of pattern recognition. I think I'm decent at that.

I can see patterns and I'm also able to identify
Like oh was that an actual pattern or was I just fooling myself with randomness there?
Did you have a role model? Like was there uh you know, as um
As like a as like an eighteen or nineteen year old, are you thinking to yourself, uh, you know, there are other people who have gotten super rich doing this, I think I can do it? Or were you like, There's some people who make an okay living doing this, I think I can do it, or you're like, I don't think about next year. It just this is uh what I'm enjoying today.
When you're nineteen, you don't really think like that. I don't like in terms of like, Oh, I wanna make a
I'm always been someone who's always like
been very confident that I was going to be successful.
I would recite things in my head when I was a kid, like I'm gonna be a millionaire. I've just
I would just do that.
And so um at that age I think I was just kind of
I wasn't sure how I was gonna make it. I just knew I was gonna make it. Like I kinda went through life with this like irrational confidence, I think. Was there a definition of making it? Was it like ten million dollars by the time I'm twenty five?
Yeah, I think I when I was tree planting I
Um, I would r had like I was listening to like Tony Robbins books and reading them. Like listening to'em at night and then reading'em in the morning. And I think yeah, I had like ten things that I wanted and I and yeah, I think it was ten million before the age of
Of thirty, I think.
Um back then that was a lot of money.
Now you can sp spin up a meme coin and
And you're taken by that by noon.
The background.
What was the first profitable pattern you figured out?
The one that really really kinda works.
First profitable my first my my first bit of money was Canadian football. Not like soccer, but actual like football, three down football.
Um
There's a lot of things going on then. There was um
They expanded into America at that time.
And so you had
some interest for whatever reason in Las Vegas to book Canadian football league games or like offshore markets.
And so uh and the Canadian teams had to abide by different rules than the American teams.
So that was part of it. You had to have a certain amount of Canadians on your roster that were starting.
American teams didn't.
Didn't have that.
Uh the Canadian stadiums were all compliant to Canadian Football League rules.
American Stadiums did not.
So some of the end zones, like the I rules are like the end zones are twenty yards deep.
But in some stadiums in America they didn't have that.
Luxury. So they were like
squared off at the back and so those games are lower scoring.
Um
That was a big part of it. And I just got to be really good at knowing a lot about Canadian football and which teams were sharp or doing innovative things.
Um
So clean football.
So can you give us a sense of the
the kind of the journey. So you start with a rough roughly what bank roll?
And then how long did it take you to get to your first million and then
At one point I think you were betting like a million dollars a day, or maybe even more than ten million a day. I mean I was betting
A lot.
I mean I think like so
It's a long
So I think the
Most
It got to be I I was a sky cap at the Winnipeg International Airport. That's when things really took off for me and I don't think anyone's ever said that before in their life that were off. Wha w what is a sky cap?
The dudes are I was like the first white sky cap hired at the Winnipeg. It's like the dudes who sit courts uh sit curbside and carry people's luggage in and check their luggage in. In in the US they check the luggage in?
But in in Canada that's not allowed because transport can so you would just carry people's luggage in.
So I'd like

Uh we don't like being called bad boys.
Uh

But yeah, basically. Yeah. So carrying people's luggage.
Orlay or or in Canada, a big thing in the winter.
Well, snowbirds who are fleeing Winnipeg to go move to Florida for the winter.
And they're in wheelchairs and you're just like wheeling them through customs.
And immigration making sure they're bad.
What per hour, roughly? I was making a lot. So I started out as a Sky Cap. In the w summertime I was printing money.
And I was making
I started out as a sky cap. I realized that the Saturday, Sunday ships were very profitable because we had American fishing travel that were people to come in on.
these boats and they've got to take a charter plane.
To go fishing somewhere in
Northern Canada.
Um
And those days you're making four or five hundred dollars in an eight hour shift.
Easy.
Wow. And so I basically went to the boss of the company's like, hey, I really want to work the Saturday and Sunday shift. What do I got to do to make it happen? He's like, No, we gotta spread those around.
It's not fair.
And the other dudes weren't making any money. They would make like eighty dollars. So I just started paying them for their Saturday. I started paying them
Eighty bucks to work.
Sunday.
And then he got the owner got wind of that and he got upset. And so then he started working the Saturdays and Sundays and couldn't figure out why he wasn't making money that I was, but I was just like, What were you doing? You were like complimenting these folks and just getting tipped? I was just like uh you know, I there's I was doing things like getting them
limbels to go to the strip clubs when the four hours that they're they're getting them Cuban cigars because Cuban cigars are illegal and when they land and like making sure they had like Cuban cigars and charging them like three times the value for that just like little things like that. Just being a
I was being intensive, I was like a concierge of the Winnipeg International Airport.
Um
But I anyways, I ended up taking over the company from him. I just undercut his contract.
And so there was actually at the National Airport, I was making so much. Bad boy to taking walk in his office and you're like, Hey guy, move.
No, I didn't know.
I was like I went to them and I was like, Yo, like I've already got North it was Northwest Airlines, now Delta, I guess, but it was North West. I was like, Hey, I've already got them to agree to the contract. Everyone wants to work for me.
Um
You can just I can give you some money.
And you can just move on, or I can just undercut you.
The money I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna say yeah, we can it's a win win.
And he was like nope, don't want to do that.
Whatever.
So I ended up doing that, I ended up undercutting him.
So
How old are you?
I was
Twenty two, twenty three?
Time?
Um actually a crazy so
I was making so much money at the Winnipeg Ash international airports of Sky Cap.
And gambling.
That mostly sky cap.
That um
At the time, Eric, there was actually like a bunch of there is
There was some cocaine that was found in Air Canada.
I had like a past of wherever as a sky cap and there was like a situation where some drugs
were found.
Like big amount of drugs from like
And I one of the US customs and immigration
uh employees who I became friends with said like hey you gotta they think you're s like we we know what you're doing here as a sky cap and I know you
But you're like
suspect number one. Like just so you know. Like like you they don't understand why you have a s up like a brand new Cadillac.
What are not brand new, but like you're driving a Cadillac like some gangster
And you're walking around with wads of cash, like I had lots lots of cash from the stall tips.
And so I was like, What?
And he's like, Yeah, like it's they were laughing, they thought it was funny. They realized, of course, it had nothing to do with it, but you can Google it, so it's it actually happened. There's like some kind of thing that happened in Winnipeg at the time where they found something. So what was your what was your income at the age of twenty two, twenty three, twenty four?
Doing all this.
Um like fifty or sixty thousand a summer easily.
Um
I was I know I was I was living with my
My mom and my br my older brother, we were like paying my parents rent for a while.
After my dad kinda
had like a downslope on the you know the during the nineteen eighty seven whatever the interest rates went up. Strip mall business wasn't so good anymore.
Um especially when you're borrowing money to
Uh uh.
At floating rates to
Build these strip malls.
Um
So yeah, that was about what I was I I had was making at the time. So you're you've been rich since you were twenty
three years old. Oh, I don't think so because I've been spending, you know, like I wasn't exactly saving, like the money was going, I was like going out for dinner every night. I was like spending the money, I was coming taking trips to Vegas, I was doing stuff. But yeah, I was and I had to pay for my school also. I had to pay for my university.
So I was paying for my university, I was supporting my parents, so I wasn't rich, I just worked hard.
I'll also I also while I was working as Skycom, I also worked as a video store.
at Rogers Video. I was working forty hours a week at Roger's video in the summer. Skycap in the morning and Roger's video.
Uh, which is like a Canadian blockbuster and the in so
out of work ethic I guess. You're more of a hustler than I I thought.'Cause you
I guess like I don't know, the public perception is you're like kind of
Just a sharp year. It it's all it's all mental. You sit in your room, you have your models, and then you make bets, and the money comes in. I I didn't know at least some of these stories about
You kinda hustling as the uh the sky cap and figuring out how to like run your own operation down there. So that's pretty cool.
W when did uh like I don't know, Sam if you've heard these stories, but I guess a couple of your famous
Uh betting stories are
I guess you went all in at one point on the Lakers to win the championship and at like six to one odds.
Yeah, six and a half to one roughly Wha how much is all in and what and what age and the timeline. It was like eighty seven thousand Canadian, give or take. And and that was all your money?
Yeah. But you could go buy I looked at it like okay, with all my money now, it's like October.
Fishing.
Yeah.
fishing season just ended at Winnipeg International Airport.
I've already paid for my tuition at the University of Manitoba to get my useless
uh philosophy degree.
Um I'm living in my brother's basement.
Worst case I lose this bet and I just go back to skycapping and just make half of that or two thirds of that back again.
So but yeah, I made the bet. It wasn't a sharp bet.
By any stretch, like I looking back, it wasn't sharp, but it felt sharp to me at the time. Um you know, you don't have a your your risk model hasn't developed, your amygdala hasn't fully developed to to you're that age to really understand if you're making good decisions.
So
Did he win? Yeah, he won, yeah.
Sam, have you heard the Bill Burr quote about risk?
No, what's he say? The c the comedian. He he has this great line about risk because you know, being a comedian is like
It's risky at many levels, right? You're probably not gonna be a successful, famous millionaire traveling, touring comedian. But on top,
Just stepping on the stage is a risk. You're gonna get humiliated most of the time when you you're not that funny.
And he goes
They were like somebody asked him, they were like, you know, did you how was it taking that risk? Uh the take taking uh taking on that risk, taking that leap of faith, and he goes,
I didn't see it as a risk. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. It's like I'm kinda dumb, but you know, the the one smart thing I realized early on was
The risk was waking up.
uh in a in a king size bed when I'm forty years old.
Turning over to a woman that I don't love anymore that I'm married because I thought it was the right thing to do, dreading this job I have to go to in six hours.
And he's like that became the risk in my head was waking up like that.
And
In compar he goes, chasing your dream, there's no risk at all. He goes, Yeah. He goes, there's no there's no risk in chasing your dream because you're doing the thing you want to do and versus
living this life that you don't want to live just to play it safe, that seemed like a bigger risk.
Definitely to that. I mean, I don't know if any of you guys had the pleasure of spending a winter in Winnipeg.
Uh
It's not pleasant.
So
Yeah, uh one of the other stories then that's pretty sweet is he uh
I guess at one point
Uh like in Vegas you can bet on the the full game, which is what most people do. Like me, I'm a casual. I go in, I just bet on the overunder, maybe on the the
The final score.
And what he realized was like
The the you could also bet on the first half only, which was like not as common of a bet, but the way that Vegas was doing it is they would take the full score, which they're pretty accurate at predicting.
And then for the half time square they were just cut in half, divided by two.
Roughly. Make the first half a little bit higher scoring.
In general.
I could tell you guys my look, I haven't told this I tell this story in a way that makes it so the edge still lives on for the people that are still betting.
But
You guys caught me out.
Okay.
This is
That's all.
Maybe go viral. I don't know. Probably fuck up a lot of people's l money.
But I think the I think that I think most people have figured it out by now. But I've never uttered this in public to anyone ever before.
True story.
Um
Okay.
The away team gets to choose
Which basket it wants to shoot on.
Orient.
So
You have teams who play.
Back then.
I would say
Thirty teams in the NDA.
Twenty eight of them, twenty seven of them.
When they're on the road, would always want their offense.
Shooting.
In front of
their own bench and they would want their defense
shooting in front of their bench in the second half.
Therefore, the first halves are higher scoring, the second halves are lower scoring, you've got the bench in front of you, you can c bark out instructions, this and that.
Three coaches, God bless'em. I wouldn't be here without them.
Uh decided that
Uh they wanted to flip it.
And they wanted to have the defense in front of them.
In the first half.
In the second half they want to randomize the game.
And make the second half higher scoring.
So you would literally like Eddie Jordan, it was J Jerry Sloan was the king of this. He was the first original guy from Utah.
And so
This was the biggest, greatest edge in the history of gambling edges, I can promise you.
You would have situations where
The total would be higher in the first half.
Lower in the second half, and the team would literally score.
On average a hundred and six points in the first half and eighty seven or something like this, or ninety, whatever it was back then in the second half.
You also have the advantage of fouling at the end of games, which will also make the score in the second half higher scoring.
And overtime, which is a nice little bonus two working in your favor. So the second half over
was like
You'd have teams playing doing this forty one times a year.
And they would go nine overs in the first half.
Thirty, whatever.
Thirty two.
thirty three with some pushes in the second half.
And you could just print
Money making this bet.
And that's what I did.
And I figured that out very, very quickly.
Actually, didn't figure it out that quickly, to be honest, I'm not as bright as I think I am, because it took me a long time to figure out what the fuck was happening. I just knew these teams had situations where
On the road, their games were much lower scoring in the first half.
than they were when they played at home.
And I thought, Well, they're they're trying to slow the game down, it's this and that, but really it's just
You're more efficient when your offense is in front of your bench.
Because the other team's defense can't get set.
And you can bark on and that seems like a clear pattern, right? Like you'd only need a season of games to understand that pattern. Well you don't know that teams are doing this. Not like they say, Hey, the Mavericks are shooting in front of their own like they're the one team. Nobody's paying attention to this.
Nobody knows that
A team that that that that back then it was you it was a perfect situation because it was three to four teams a year.
They were all shit teams.
It was
And my heyday it was the Utah Jazz who was a shit team.
The Washington Wizards
With Eddie Jordan, shit team.
Byron Scott, New Jersey Nets, shit team.
And then you had a few teams like
Um the Minnesota Timberwolves did it some games, not other games, which is the dream scenario nowadays that's probably screwing these gamblers because when that happens you've
So
Um so that was it. That was the edge. That's why I made a lot of my money. And you could I I I if I had
A bankroll of

This is not responsible. Please don't follow this about. But if I had a bank roll of like two hundred and fifty K because I was betting on credit, you settle at the end of the week.
I'd have a situation where if I somehow lost all my bets, I'd be like two or three million dollars in debt.
But it didn't matter because I knew my edge was so big.
That I was betting and I somehow partnered up with some
Big book big big bookmaker slash
Uh
a legend Mafia guy in Montreal, which is another story.
Who was able to get me down for a lot of money.
And he just basically I gave him the bets. I told him what I wanted to bet, he would go bet them for me, he'd collect, he'd give me the money, I'd win.
And that was that. So that's the edge. That's the whole edge in a nutshell. Okay. This is it say that I have so many questions, but it it you know I'm a new friend. I don't know it's always I've had like friends who I've told this to are like, Oh, can you please share that on my podcast with me?
I'm saying ah I feel bad for the people who are still grinding out a living doing this, but you know what?
It's a new day.
Terrorists are here. This is my terrorists of a gambling community.
I'm a I I'm I'm a new fan of yours. You know, Sean was like, we gotta talk to this guy. So I'm a new fan. So I went and read everything I could in the past week. Can you give some type of
Can you can you give me a noob, some type of scale as to your winnings? Like are we talking like hundreds of millions of dollars in winnings or whatever you're comfortable with?
Yeah, no, I mean look, I
I made between ten to twelve million dollars a year gambling for
Ten to fifteen years.
Minimum. So we're talking nine nine figures in the I spent a lot. Like I didn't just always that was that was like my net win, you know. I'm not talking about local I won, but I lost. I mean like I lived a pretty good life. Like I took care of my parents, I did other things, but yeah, I profited a lot gambling on basketball for sure. Like a bad year for me on the NPA, I think it was like six or seven million.
Averager is probably eight.
And in the early heydays I made more money.
Then
I um yeah, then I but I was also I made some mistakes afterwards, but yeah I was in your personal life, are you living a life of a twenty eight year old rich guy of like I mean are you spending seven figures a year?
in personal like No other bus I tried like other business things. I like, you know, I helped out some family. I bought like a profitable in in Montreal. I bought
You know, some stuff from my yeah, I mean, So you're not you're not you you kind of overplay you're you're it doesn't seem like you're being irresponsible.
No, I was just like, I just think life is short and what's the point of how money if you don't spend it, so
But I don't spend it I spend it on experience.
I said on experiences, like I'm not a flashy guy, I don't
drive a fancy car, I don't wear jewelry, I've never had a watch, I've never had any expensive
You know, I'm pretty basic in my clothing.
Just like a lot of NBA players like end up going broke or NFL players end up going broke in their like later career. One of the crazy things about like I grew up
idolizing Phil Ivy and a lot of poker guys, basically.
And
Once I got into the world of business and investing, okay, this was kind of like what real wealth looks like. And I realized that a lot of the guys who were really great poker players, really great gamblers.
that you thought were really great gamblers, like
I don't think they were as successful.
Like businessmen.
As I thought. Like I you know, I I don't I don't think they made as much in their peak, and I think they lost a lot along the way, or they had huge downswing somewhere along the way.
As far as you know
Are you the most s like did you do the best? Are you the most successful sports better that you know, or were there people better than you that that made more than you?
Um Billy Walters is very I mean, Billy Walters had the biggest like my edge was
I had to like scrap for my edge because
But Billy Walters had the first computer program.
When
Like they were using giant like
There's old Westinghouse machines.
To feed the information on those giant cards for computer programming.
So and they had like a computer program when the Vegas odds makers would just sit there
And like sit around a tailored I think the line should be seven and a half. What do you think, Jack? And I think it should be around eight and a half and then like
Billy Walter's computer guy's like no it's like four point three is the right uh price on this game. So they had like the best edge ever.
He made a lot of money, super successful.
And Billy Walters he I think I saw a sixty minute special on him. Is he the uh he's a he's a southern guy.
Wait, what is it?
Yeah, I I read him I read about him uh you know, I saw the sixty minute and he was exactly like I thought he was going to be. Like he seemed like a fast talking wheeling and dealing. No, not a fast talker. He opposite. The number one thing Billy Walters had going for him is he's from the south.
And if you're a gambler.
One of the greatest things you can have going for you is people thinking you're not as intelligent as you're talking about. I don't mean I guess I should upset that's talking. I guess I mean like um
Charming. Charming.
Uh oh yeah, yeah, no, but he'd be like, Well, I like to bake a bed if I could. I mean I like to make a form of game.
The thing about Billy is like people underestimated how sharp he was early on.
But he's as sharp as they come.
Did you have any uh you know, like in the movies where it's like
At some point the casino's like facial recognition, they're like don't let this guy bet anymore.
you know, tape you in the back and bruise you up a little bit. Like did you ever run into problems with
Winning too much.
So
The way sports betting works, you're not usually betting in the casino. You're betting with like
Back then when I was at my heyday, you were betting with literal like
Street people.
So that had like corner book making operations.
Casinos are
For losers.
And people who can't win.
And if you win, they'll just not let you do it anymore.
And so
So you need to find a way to bet on credit through like you need to find someone
Who's gonna play a game of telephone with you, who's gonna take your bets and then maybe bet more later, or thin loser, like or or you find a stock like my big business.
Like nobody nobody knew who I was.
Nobody knew I was winning money betting because I was never the guy making the bets.
I'd always find what's called a beard.
Who would make my bets for me.
And so I've had numbers of like numerous beards throughout the years who were making my bets for me and they were the
Yeah.
either they were really successful business people or degenerate gamblers or like Hollywood people or like
Floyd Mayweather, who's a beard for like half an afternoon for me.
Um
How d how did that go?
Um
Yeah, he just wasn't he wasn't
It was too d he was too difficult to work with. I mean he's got so much money and he's like impulsive.
No, I've done hit in the head for like most of his life. Like, you know, he's how much how much
I mean just piggybacked off your bets.
Right. He's a huge bank girl. Couldn't he have just piggybacked off your bet? You're telling him to go back. I think Floyd was already moving for someone else.
Whether it was Billy Walters or someone, like for sure, someone got into Floyd and Floyd making those bets. Like nobody posts their bets on Instagram for millions and millions of dollars.
Unless there's an angle.
Whether they're sponsored by the casino or they're
So yeah, I think he was moving money for someone, but someone introduced I I sat next to him at a Miami Heat playoff game.
And he liked
My friend who was sitting next to me got like took a liking to her.
And so they became friends and so we somehow had a situation
Where for an afternoon him and
The guy his business his his business guy and I were
talking and Floyd was gonna make the bets, but it just didn't work. Like I told him I wanted to bet one game and they said no, we like the other side.
And I was like, That's cool, but can you please go bet this one for me?
And they're like, No, we don't want to do that. Like, you know, we want to bet the other side. And I was like, Okay, well then just we'll just bet against each other. You bet that side I'll bet this side. And they're like, No, but you always win. We can't do that.
And I was just like, Yeah, I'm out. I can't deal with this anymore.
So that was it.
Yeah.
Is the motivation on all this getting rich or is it getting a rush? Is it
an intellectual challenge. What's the uh like what's what's the motivation.
No, the Rush is like I'm not a Rush guy.
It's um I think it's the intellectual challenge.
Also I
I realized as I've gotten older that I
I take pride in putting myself in really, really stressful situations.
And
Seeing how well I perform?
Like that's like my probably a weakness of mine is I'll put myself in these really stressful situations.
Without knowing it, but I'll do that.
Wh what's an example of that?
Like being all in Bitcoin since two thousand and thirteen, like for a hundred and
Sixty to one hundred and seventy percent of your net worth at various different points in time. So you borrowed
Yeah.
So
Betting on sports.
Um
And making money was challenging.
And in terms of your winning money.
Like I was living in Canada at the time.
Um
I was
Uh betting all over the world.
And having to receive money from people all over the world.
And so
My bank accounts were constantly getting closed.
Even in Canada, I was like, I'm a professional gambler, this is what I do, I pay my taxes as a professional gambler.
one of the few dummies in Canada who actually'cause in Canada tax gambling is considered non taxable. So I was like one of the few people who actually
paid tax on their gambling winnings in Canada'cause I was considered an expert.
Um, but I didn't have to, but I did that.
Probably stupid on my part.
Um
But um but yeah, so just that.
And then
seeing how easy it was to move money with Bitcoin. And then and then the other part of it was later on in life, I left Canada after I got tired of paying taxes.
Um in Canada and I moved to Monaco.
And that entire
Principality is built on
Minimizing your tax exposure.
It's it's you know, we're looking at flats that are like the current places in Monaco now that just got built.
Or
eighty five, ninety million dollars.
For a three thousand square foot condo it's the most expensive real estate in the world.
And the only reason it's that expensive is because
There's a limited amount of land and everyone lives there because of tax.
Zero.
Zero tax.
And so my point is is that that whole
That's like a Swiss bank account.
It will move, people are willing to but whereas
There's a lot of people whether they're
Whereas Bitcoin you can you can
You don't have to invest in Monaco real estate to hedge. You can
have your money in your pocket. You don't have to worry about a bank. You can move money intermediate without any intermediate, permission.
Even the bank accounts I had, whether they be in Monaco or Canada, they'd always been like, Why are you sending this money? Where's it going? Why'd you get it? And now it's even worse. So that was
Part of it.
I like the I like the math behind it. It made sense to me as a math guy.
Um
Yeah, I just and I'm an independent guy to begin with, and so
I didn't really click.
For me until later on. I heard about it maybe five or six times, port finally clicked, it finally clicked because I was betting with someone
In China.
who had owed m who had had a really difficult time in paying me money also I was living in
Vancouver.
Before I move to
And my entire apartment building was owned by
Chinese expats who are literally laundering their money in Canadian real estate.
None of them lived in my building.
The entire building was empty except for six people.
But the entire building was sold.
And all of Vancouver been to Vancouver, Canada, it's an it's an entire money laundering c
operation. The real estate is all owned by foreign people trying to escape
Regimes that are
Yeah, they're just capital flight.
So Bitcoin just made sense. Okay, I'm gonna go buy a a a a conduit.
Canada or I'm gonna buy some Bitcoin and put it in my wallet.
to escape some total some regime, some capital. So were you taking the ten million uh gross earnings and just going straight to Bitcoin?
No, then I was g I was trying to get paid by people who owed me money.
And so this the first person the first time I ever acquired Bitcoin I had a a g a gentleman in in um
Fellow I'm at playing poker.
Who got me a bunch of accounts in China to bet on NBA basketball.
Asia, let's say I don't know where it was exactly, but somewhere
And he was like
Uh it was twenty thirteen ish. And I was like, Hey, like how are you gonna send me money? At some point we had like an H an H S B C account in Hong Kong.
And he's like, I can send you bitcoin.
No like
Bitcoin really? You guys like Bitcoin? I think the price was around a hundred and
eighty dollars at the time. He's like, Yeah, everyone in China loves Bitcoin.
I was just like
Like if everyone in China loves Bitcoin, maybe I should love Bitcoin too. Like what is why do they love it in China? And he's like explaining to why everyone loves it and how great it is.
And so that was it. So I I
I bought it then it very quickly went to six hundred, then a thousand, like very
after and then it and then it slowly went down to about hundred and fifty after I think Bitfinex got hacked after that.
The next summer.
But that's when I got involved and it clicked for me instantly.
When I was all the situation moving to Monaco for taxes.
Seeing my all of the real estate in Canada being super expensive for native Canadians, especially in Vancouver, because of
Especially people from Asia buying real estate and just
Holding it.
And not doing anything with it.
And I just like why would you like what Michael Saylor now has a really good
view on it's like why would you ever own real estate you're at the mercy of the government who can change the rules and change the taxes
Or you could just buy Bitcoin.
So that was it.
Wha w w when you're dealing with um
You know, I'm not saying that you're shady or you do ever do anything illegal, but when gambling as an outs well, as an outsider when I hear about gambling
I um I you know, I've I watched the movie Casino and I like I know like I think of Ma Mafia and whatever.
Yeah.
When you're owed money and I and I had read stories how you're you were owed money and you talked about it.
What what's up with the gambling culture?
Do people actually pay their debts just on a handshake agreement?
Um yeah, I mean, I think I had an advantage. I mean, just to be clear, like I lived in Canada, gambling was legal, I paid my taxes, I wasn't doing anything illegal.
Um
Some of the people who I'm my my my customers are all breaking the law because they're bookmakers. So the I'm not the customer.
I'm the sharp.
They're the sucker, I'm winning the money. They you know, they think they may think they're they're that I'm the customer, but really I'm not. So
So
Um
So for me the hard part was like okay, Revenue Canada wants fifty seven percent of my money as my partner, but they're putting all my customers out of business by
Making it hard. So that that was part of it.
To answer your question, is it hard to get paid? Yeah, people lose money.
Um because I'm betting through intermediaries for the most part.
I think like part of the deal is you have to guarantee the money.
When you're making the bets.
And people would go out of their way to guarantee me, not because they're afraid of me, because why would they be? I'm not I've never ever
done anything to get money other than be like annoying.
Um, but like if you knew that I was always going to win.
And if you didn't pay me, you knew you were not gonna get my bets anymore.
you might go out of pocket.
To make sure your relationship with me was good.
knowing that eventually you're gonna make the money back if you're smart enough.
Yeah, if you're smart enough you'd realize why would I step for Alibos? Her olibos is gonna win, we're gonna win it back next year. I'll go out of pocket.
We'll figure out a solution.
That's generally what happened with me.
That's a good threat though. You look
I'm gonna call you like
At least five or six times.
To get paid. I know I didn't even I was pretty bad at it to be honest. Like the the the way to get paid is to be the most annoying person in that person's life.
So I had a
I had a famous poker player who's like a really good dude, but he was for sure a degenerate and he owed me money.
And um not not the m like this guy Eric Lindgren, he talked like he he
That's what I was referring to, yeah.
Yeah.
And I would just like I would just like
He w I w if he won a tournament, I would like get on a plane and just like be there when they paid him. I would just like hand out and just you just gotta you know, but you also have to be like
kind of like understanding that
This guy needs to live his life and how also have some money to but you know, he was a guy who
who at the time owned a piece of full tilt, so they had all this individu all this imaginary money they they thought they were all gonna be so rich.
And so he didn't really worry, you know, he didn't really worry about getting paid because he thought eventually they'd get paid by full tilt poker, but then full tilt poker got shot down. So all these guys.
Yeah. Anyways, yeah, that's what you do, you just be annoying.
What what inspired you to buy the soccer team?
So like where like how long did you have that idea before you end up doing it?
I wanna buy an NBA team.
And then I work I saw like the sausage was made and I was like, Yeah, the NDA's not for me.
Um
What do you do by that? Why not?
I mean for for one, the the fran the franchise valuations are going up and up and up and up.
It's a very, very, very um
difficult business to buy because you're competing with the sh richest people in the world who want these assets.
So it's very difficult.
And then I just found I started finding the sport not that interesting anymore.
After seeing like how
Everything was
Al I didn't I didn't like I think
Uh
The bubble for me kind of ended it because it was
During that time when
The the league which is cool'cause the the league was primarily they became like almost like a social
cause versus the and I thought that's good for society in some ways if you believe that. And but for me it just became too much. I just wanted
I just want sport. I just like sport.
So around that time I didn't want to you know I didn't want to
I think people
I think where the MBA maybe missed things is I think a lot of people wanted to escape during coronavirus.
Into sport.
I want I okay, forget about other people. I want to escape
The shitty
the the whatever, the riots, the burn, the whatever. I wanted to escape all that into sport.
And I'm watching the NBA and it's
And maybe maybe the the answer isn't for maybe the answer isn't escape for for people who are I'm not American, but maybe for Americans who are living through it and they really believe that that
Whatever, that's cool. But for me I was just like, Yeah, I don't wanna watch this. Like I just want I just wanna
I wanna watch a basketball game. I don't have like
A message.
So yeah, it just became it became too much, I think, in some ways. Became overwhelming.
And then also your
I was working for the Mavericks at the same time.
And they were in the bubble, and I'm hearing the stories from them. And you have like African American coaches who are like really upset with what's happening as they should be. The players are upset. It just became like really
draining emotionally in a way that made me really kind of sad.
And um
I started watching football.
More.
Because
Soccer was the first store sport to start up after Covid.
And so I just got really into it.
And we were already building models to begin with before then.
I thought you know what, I wanna
This is new, it's exciting.
Uh it's more
Mathematical in the sense of
It's unsolved.
It's a lot more there's a lot the game tree is bigger, it's more nuanced.
Basketball's pretty simple. You got a top five player.
Yeah.
Put him on the court, you surround him with other players, but he's the guy, like heel it's called heliocentrism.
And then you profit.
And then you trade them for
Anthony Davis and one first.
I don't know. But that's it. You just find a guy like Luca.
Or Lebron.
Or Jokic.
Or whatever.
Um
And off you go.
But
Not that difficult.
You said we. You said we're we're we are building models. I think Sean and I were talking and he was like this guy's like a lone wolf.
Uh
Well y y y and I don't know the truth, and I want you to tell me the truth. Do you
Um, I think you don't have a family. I think you're you're uh and I think that like from an outside perspective, it doesn't seem like you have this massive company. Like what's a lone wolf. Yeah, okay. This now I am a lone wolf, when you put it that way, yeah. Like I've always been very um
Yeah. So I but I have people who work for me. I have people who have vehicles memory. Can you explain that? What what's your what's the the organ of the team look like?
It's so
I have ha now my organization not counting the football team.
Which is completely separate.
Just like two hundred and fifty people or something worked for me. I don't know how many it is. It's a lock.
Um, maybe less. I don't know.
Account Academy player. Um but no, I just have
Like I still do my basketball betting.
I spend zero time on it.
It's an automated program. But when I first started betting on basketball programmatically with a model
When I decided that
My
Method works, but it only works if my mindset is good.

I wanna have a life.
And have like emotional relationships with females and have a partnership, whatever, and I'm upset, I'm making bad decisions when I'm gambling, it's harder to be like
a perfect arbiter of what's right and what's wrong and what's the right information.
When you're the input.
So I wanted to automate.
Me, basically.
Mm.
And so um
So yeah, I I I hired a couple different quads.
Unsuccessfully, they weren't great.
Um, kept trying and then a friend of mine, a poker player by the name of
Well, uh he played poker, a guy named Brandon Adams was teaching at Harvard at the time.
And
I was playing poker with him.
Really, really smart guy.
And he said, I have this student that I need you need to talk to, he's a genius.
And he'd be perfect.
And I met him and that was the guy who
Basically together we built our simulation models that really

the half time thing, which I
Made a lot of money on.
Um this was now full game bets on
Yeah, sides, totals, everything.
And so hip him and I together built.
And our operation was myself, this individual.
Um
And then
One person who basically
Well,
Two people who are putting the bets in and also making the lineups.
Um
And then me and my the person the the the the we call them the whiz'cause he doesn't want to be
Nobody wants to know who he is, but um he's out there. What's up?
Um and we had a f we had a falling out.
I'm not following out, but he when I went to go work for the Mavs, I basically turned over the business to them.
And he ran it for a while.
Enjoy it.
They didn't.
Do that well.
And he left.
And then when I
Quit the Mavs.
We started back up again.
And um
That was it. So I basically did the gambling.
Again.
Not for myself.
But
for the people who worked for me.
to allow them to make continue to make a lot of money because
I've had guys who worked for me now for over twelve or thirteen years with a gap.
With a gap appeared in average.
And so um they run everything and they do everything. Dude, you're basically running it like a like a small little seed fund, Sean. You know what I mean? Like a hedge fund. Algorithmic hedge fund like
Jump minus
Yeah.
So you know, those guys, they measure their success on um, you know, IRR or you know, annual returns. And if if they could get
twenty percent, thirty percent returns.
What's a good return annual return for you? What's a bad annual return for you? Wh where do you land? You know, I know what multifamily can get you, I know what private equity can get you, I know what venture can get you. It's hard to really quantify because I'm never able to bet my entire network. Like
I can't take in outside capital.
And so like we're I I don't look at it as more like an annual R A R or or an it's more of a
Return on investment on every bet you're making.
And so every bet we make
Um
A bad year for us was four and a half.
for four to four and a half percent.
On every bet we're making.
A good year is like in the n eights and nines. And now of course
You want to have as many bets as possible.
and the most profit as possible. So your you want your ROI to go down a little bit.
As your bets go up.
So it's like you're threading the needle?
Um
But the game has changed so much now that
Now we've got like two models that are that are going
At all times.
And we use like a mix between the two of them. And it's cum when I say it's automated, it's completely automated. Like zero last four or five years since even before I you know, even when these guys are running it themselves.
Like nobody's saying, Oh, I don't I think the model's wrong. Like it gets teams wrong for sure.
And we have a guy who says, like, yeah, we're really off on these Oklahoma City totals.
Like we we we think they should be higher scoring, but they're not. We think they'd be low score we think they're higher scoring, but they're going under
I'm just like cool.
We're not making any changes like that with the model.
And has you know, now I I like we said this before I don't pay attention to this too much to sports, but I think it's fucking insane though that like every sport is basically a gambling thing now.
Like it's like it's I think it's weird. Um
But it's messed up. I think it's wrong.
And
But does that make you richer then because you have more uh r retail investors?
Yeah, this the amount of m I don't even look like last night, like I probably lost more money on Fartcoin yesterday.
Uh my Fartcoin holding.
Uh
On paper.
But I wouldn't
Great to make in an entire year betting NBA. So I don't I I don't care what we make in the NBA, I just do it
Because it's meaningful for the people who work for me.
And they have a a massive
profit share in it. So that's why we do it.
So
Well let me just recap a couple things. You said uh
If every bet, you know, blow in four or five percent, good, nine, ten percent, that means you need to bet like a hundred million dollars of total betting volume. Totally total dollars bet to make ten million. Is that right? Yeah. Well, you don't need a hundred million to do that because you're doing it every day, multiple times over. And so yeah. So yeah, like that's exactly right. Yeah.
So couldn't you have just applied your brain to like
buying HVAC companies as like private equity and gotten better returns, right? Like
You know, like I always think about this with w like if I hear somebody's a pro
Black tech player.
I'm like, first of all, I don't even know if that's act technically a thing. I don't know if Blackjack is like a game you can get an edge in anymore, but secondly
If you're that good and that smart, like couldn't you just apply applied it to a
easier game and made more money. Like don't you think about that for yourself? Ah, if my dad was Ray Dalio, I probably would have went a different path, but unfortunately my dad was my dad was a Greek gambler who spent his time at the racetrack. So this is what I knew. I don't know what else to say.
But you have done it. You have done, right? You buy a team. That seems like it could be a a great business move and you did
Crypto.
Yeah, the crypto thing is really the part I think that
Uh
Is because th I don't have an edge in finance. These people have bigger they're smarter. Like maybe I could have h honed in on one specific category that I knew very well.
But again, like I try to like I I'm a gambler in the sense that
I like gambling games, but like the number one edge in poker is playing with players who are worse than you.
That's just it.
And so I try to apply that also to my businesses. I try to
Stay away from
People that are smarter than me, where there's plenty of them.
In terms of that I'm competing against.
Um, and so yeah, I mean am I gonna compete with like
No, I don't think so. I mean may maybe, but
At this point I'm I think I'm good at what I'm doing. I like my quality of life.
Well, what do you do with your money now? Do you um like your income or your investments? Do you do do you do any boring stuff? I mean, I mostly do boring stuff, uh index funds. Yeah, I do super bor I super do super boring stuff. Every dollar I earn goes directly into Bitcoin. That's my boring stuff.
Is that so that's still how how you roll then?
Um correct.
Yeah. Wow. Every dollar I make betting sports goes into Bitcoin.
Has forever.
I just So you've made more money off Bitcoin than you have sports betting.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. I've done very well with Bitcoin. I've done very well. But you know, what's the what's your end game with Bitcoin? Is it
Hold forever is it Bitcoin becomes global.
You know, reserve currency. Like what where does it
There's no exit with Bitcoin, right for you?
I don't know I wish I could do better Michael Saylor increasing, but I don't know this guy, I like this guy. I feel like his end game as crazy as this guy is. I feel like he's kind of
He's a savant. Like he's kinda figured what is your end game? I don't know, dollars, what am I gonna do with dollars? Like sorry, I'm not
They're printing more of it. Like it's not it doesn't seem like it works for me.
I remember like
Being in Covid, living in Malbow during Covid and
The houses
That I've rented.
Had gone up in value.
Like
triple like rich people stuff was going becoming more and more expensive as more and more money entered the system.
So what's my end game?
I don't know.
Protect my wealth, I guess.
Uh
Maintain my sovereignty.
That's my end game.
I don't know like I just to be clear, I don't have it in
I like Bitcoin, but it's
It's still I'm not like the pure Bitcoin guys, like the guys who are like have their own seed and they have it memorized in their head. Like that's not me. My money's an IBIT.
It's in the bank.
It's
With a third party. It's not smart, but
I like my quality of life.
I
I pr I don't wanna have I don't wanna be my own bank. Like being my own bank was cool before.
People knew what crypto was, now being your own bank is not cool, like for me.
Just to be clear, like I love Bitcoin. I love the self sovereignty of it.
That's the ethos, but my money is custodied.
with institutions, unfortunately. Do you own anything? Like do you own any real estate and cars and uh like items or do you live light? Yeah.
Dude, are you this I feel like a lot of this guy thinks I'm like some kind of like I'm like an alien who just dropped into the world and has nothing to do with the Bitcoin and watches sports all day. Sean and I actually both rent homes and I don't I I I I actually don't own a lot of stuff. I I like and light. S Sean does too. Uh
And we don't actually own houses. We like to run houses. So recently I no I I was with you guys and I didn't own any real st like I bought real estate when I was younger.
Um
Yeah, I didn't I didn't before that I was I just thought like the better move is Bitcoin than
Like I'm not why am I gonna buy this house in Mao, but when I can rent and buy Bitcoin? I sold
I also sold all of my assets.
During the two thousand seventeen
Dump.
I own property.
Uh
outside of I own property in Mexico, I have some vacation property I have some property in Europe.
out of plane.
Sold it all.
Uh actually had some friends try to schedule an intervention for me because they thought I'd lost my mind when I sold everything to buy more Bitcoin at thirty three hundred.
Uh you you sold all your shit to buy the dip? That's incredible.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
I gotta ask you a different question. What are you into now? Like we asked a bunch about the past, but like what's the future shit you're really like somebody said you're into biohacking or you're you're into the street. Sam mentioned something interesting about like owning things and and and I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Uh what am I into now? I'm into biohacking. I'm into um
Yeah, I don't know. Like I think like I'm into it's interesting because I'm I'm I'm I'm
I'm really into like analog things.
Like
Records.
Fox.
O I'm I'm you know, old games.
old like pinball machines.
Yeah.
I mean, are you like detoxing from phone? Like your ph phone goes away from hours and days.
Oh, I forget what it's called, but this new thing that's black and white.
I'm trying to comment to that.
Um, I think Obox is is the new one that that just came out.
Palma Palma two, I think is what it is. It's supposed to be getting shipped. Um
But that looks really cool. We love those things. I use the break all the time.
Um and then there's like Daylight, which is like another like dumb phones, basically. Daylight's nice. I've used Daylight. Yeah. Yeah. I'm into that. I'm into like to be honest, like uh during Covid I
I start getting into like Western life, like it's gonna sound crazy, but like I want a ranch.
Yeah. I bought a ranch. I would love to. I would I bought a yacht before, I was like on the Mediterranean cruising and now I'm like, no, I want a ranch, I want courses, I want simple life.
Um that's what I'm entering.
What are you doing for biohacking? Like what what
What's your kind of like what's w I guess but maybe
What are you finding valuable or helpful or or you're seeing the best thing. Yeah. I'll I do I do a lot of peptide stuff.
Um
I kinda grew up in like I I spent a lot of time, I should say, in like rich guy LA circles for a minute playing poker and all these guys were on like T R T and H G H and all this other stuff.
And they look great.
But they weren't necessarily
Optimizing for living longer.
So H G H is great, you feel awesome on it, but you're definitely not living longer, taking it.
T R T I think can be good for some people. It didn't work for me. I tried it. It made me
Um
Irritable?
So I I do other things to raise my testosterone, like
I take some
Rhodacea or whatever, and Fadosha artists and I do a lot of squats and kettlebell stuff and so I do quite well with that.
Um, but what am I taking? I'm taking peptides for the most part. I think the best thing I've ever done
I do a lot of sauna.
Um red light therapy.
I would say the best.
I mean I yeah, I I I I admire what he's doing. It it I just think like what's the I mean, he's doing it for science, I guess, but for me it's
Yeah, not for me.
Um not that bad.
But I do have you know, I do ha I take about twenty supplements a day for sure.
I inject myself with some peptides when I'm
But I think the best thing I've ever done was stem cells.
Are are you doing peptides and stem cells for injury recovery, or you're doing pep I thought peptides is like for injury recovery. Do you use it for other stuff? A peptide's like a protein, yeah. Or an amino acid, I guess, that which is a precursor to protein. Yeah, it's a pre it's a precursor. You can find a peptide that's a precursor for whatever you want to solve for.
So like some is for injury recovery, like D P C one fifty seven. That's what I took. I took that from my Achilles. It was great.
Yeah it's but it also and by the way, that also helps with your gut.
Which then your gut connects to your brain, which helps your brain. It helps you there's a lot of benefits to it. I take customorilin, epamorin, hexarolin.
Um
With a doctor, I get tested very regularly, my blood tests very very regularly. But the best thing I've ever done and the thing I could recommend to anyone who can afford it.
Is aside from sauna.
Five times a day.
Fight himself, excuse me. Um is
Is stem cells.
Getting actual stem cells.
But our Mazankemol.
Which is through the umbilical cord.
Do you do that if you have a injury or like I feel great. Like
Do you
Did you were you look right? So you're probably yeah, I'm I mean I d I yeah, no, you look great. Both of you guys look like
I'm not sure how but you guys look like you're you're doing
great stuff for your health. But I think yeah, do you do you people do it for injury. I did it because I wanted to feel better.
And um I found this place in Panama that I went to stem cell.
Institute.
And um
They were kind of the one of the pioneers behind it.
Doctor Riordan. I think that's like I think
I think
Mel Gibson's dad may may have talked about this on the Joe Rogan show, I'd already gone there, but
I think there's like an episode where Mel Gibson talks about his dad going there to get stem cells. I've seen similar things. Like it's unbelievable. Is this the one where it's like its own sovereign land?
No, I don't know what that is, but this is just Panama. You're at Leggy State of Hilton. I last time I don't think it was sovereign.
Um
Oh, I know what you're talking about. I do know what you're talking about. No, it's nothing like that.
Aren't they doing genetic uh they're doing genetic uh
What Chr Chris what what's it called were you uh
Yeah.
Oh, they're doing that, right? It's like a Peter Teal thing. Genome editing. They're doing genome editing, yeah. Yeah.
I don't want none of that.
I just want
I want building blocks into my body to make me young. So if you can give me the stuff that a little baby has to grow a fucking actual humanity. It's like their own little sovereign area and they're like building like the future Yao Ming superbaby or something. You know like the network state stuff, right? Where it's basically like, Oh, if we can get like you know, I invest in praxis. It's like people wanna creep
Create new land where they can have like you know, let's say
Uh more
They can have different rules, right? For themselves. Yeah, it's like a it's like a land where like Anne Rand is the president, you know, like it's it's like libertarian. It's like libertarian uh land.
Yeah.
You gotta watch the documentary. It's hilarious, because Brian goes there. I think he goes there for like a full plasma like swap with his
son and his dad or something like that. I I don't remember exact procedure he did.
But he goes.
And it's like the two scientists who created this institute
And they show the guy, and the guy's clear like 22 years old. He's so young. And but he has this mustache and he has glasses with like a rope. As if, like, bro, we can see through the disguise. You're 22 years old. And then the narrator standing on another kid's shoulders with a trench coat on. Exactly.
And he's like, you know, I think these guys' hearts are the right place, but you know, they're not like twenty year PhDs, if you know what I mean. It's like yeah,'cause he's twenty. Uh it was it was so funny. You gotta watch that part. Yeah, and I s I actually did watch it, uh and I know what you're talking about now. And I remember like
I had my finger, this is where I need my digital whatever, but I had my finger on the fast par the entire time. Like'cause you can't watch it all the way through. It's just like what is this is not that interesting.
Um but yeah, I do like the talking well no, yeah, it's nothing like that. This is more for you have a rotator tuck.
uh injury.
Um
Some parents were there with some kids who were um
were autistic and they were doing that therapy was people with MS. There'd been a lot of different stuff that they were doing. And I had the most I've done it
Maybe seven times.
Um
The the injuries you have will repair permanent, that's permanent.
The
Superman feeling you have for three to four months.
uh afterwards is fleeting.
But it feels amazing.
For that two or three months period.
And
the there's a lot of physiological effects that you know that you got a good batch. Sometimes you don't get a good batch or it doesn't take, but if you had a good batch
You'll know it.
And it's yeah, it's great. I haven't done it in a while, but it is amazing. Do you do any drugs or drink alcohol? Do you get like fucked up at all?
So you're are you sober?
Yeah, I was never I I think the last time I ever got
I mean I was betting on NFL football and Canadian football.
in c university and waking up with a hangover and I was like, Yeah, this doesn't work. So you've been in like this like vice for this wor a world of vice, but not substances and like your control I'm a control I I like to be in control of myself. I like to be in control of my emotions. I like to be making good decisions. I don't like to be
It not unable to think rationally.
So alcohol doesn't do it for me.
Dude, this is great. Thanks for uh thanks for doing this, man. Where should people follow you? Is Twitter still the best place or X?
Yeah, I mean follow the football club. I'm not looking to promote myself, but I I would love for the football club to get more
know, we were doing some great things this year at the football club and then um You guys won, right? You won the like
We were recently promoted to La Liga Two. We had an amazing first start of the season and then we had a game we had a a stretch where we played twenty two games in six days and
I failed the culture and that I wasn't able to demand that we
Do things that were proper for rest and health for the players.
And we ran our players into the ground during that period.
Because I didn't have you know, that was something that the coaches
Wanted to do.
And then we suffered.
Some injuries.
And we've been basically we we we're in the midst of a six game losing streak right now, which is sad.
Um and we're paying for it from what we did in November, which was
A cultural failure on my part. So I have to do it. Are you able to like apply the biohacking shit that you're learning to uh your sports psychology?
Not in the medicine part of it, but like there's lots of studies on how to optimize health and
And what the mu your your risk of muscle injury goes up.
twenty five percent if you if a football player plays more than one game every six days. There's plenty of research that can make you come to good decisions. But like um sleep and recovery and trying to we're gonna do a better job on we're when I bought the team, we didn't even have a training facility.
So we're building a brand new training facility.
Uh, we hope to announce the land that we've acquired soon.
Um and yeah, we'll do
We'll do stuff like that.
Like doing these bets and hanging out with your dad in Vegas to owning a team and uh implementing like what you ever you want to implement. That's pretty wild, right? That's a good uh that's a good ending so far. Or it's not the end, but it's a good part of the story. You thought that.
I did I was very delusional in when I was younger. I was very like I'm a very I'm really I'm really a big fan of that sort of stuff.
Like
speaking things, not speaking into but just like having the belief and why not? Why not?
I mean
I know the universe is kinda there if you do it like
You you can craft your own path, just keep trying until you get there.
Dude, you're insane.
You're the man. Awesome. You're the man. You um thanks for coming on, dude. You uh you're welcome. Well thank you man. That's it. That's the pod. I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.
I put my law in it like my day song On the road less travel never looking back