Possible: Steve Kerr and Kris Brown on leadership and purpose in sports

0:03 There's eight. Children or teens a day that are shot. accidentally in the United States by guns that are not stored safely. So this is not hey, we're trying to take your guns away. This is we want our kids to be safe. We want you to be safe. There's a middle ground to be found here where you get your second amendment rights. We protect our children, and we can form a much healthier society.

0:27 Seventy six percent of school shooters get their guns from a home where that firearm is not safely stored. We could cut. Tomorrow And it wouldn't take another law being passed, that's worth doing. Yeah.

0:50 Hi, I'm Reed Hoffman. And I'm Aria Finger. We want to know how together we can use technology like AI. To help us shape the best possible future. We asked technologists, ambitious builders, and deep thinkers to help us sketch out the brightest version of the future.

1:07 And we learn what it'll take to get there. This is possible. Full disclosure.

1:15 And to no surprise to those who know me, my knowledge of sports is, shall we say, limited. But I do know firsthand how powerful it is when the right team Leader mission and opportunity. Come into alignment. While my lens is entrepreneurship.

1:30 I see how sports can uniquely foster. Teamwork. Build resilience. And amplify human potential. Prominent coaches and athletes, no doubt.

1:40 Have plenty to offer us about tackling some of the toughest challenges. we face as a society. And one of our guests today has shown us exactly that. Steve Kerr, one of my lifelong idols and head coach of the Golden State Warriors, is celebrated for leading his team to four NBA championships. and a record breaking seventy three and nine season.

2:00 Before his coaching career, he was part of the legendary Chicago Bulls roster, of course, led by Michael Jordan. And beyond the court, perhaps most importantly, his success is matched by his powerful and outspoken advocacy against gun violence. A commitment deeply rooted in his own personal History. Joining him is Chris Brown. President Brady

2:22 The nation's oldest gun violence prevention organization. For more than thirty years. Chris has been at the forefront of this work. Beginning with her efforts. On the groundbreaking Brady Bill.

2:32 That established federal background checks. Together, Chris and Steve bring both expertise and reach. One leading a national movement. The other using a global platform to amplify this cause. In this conversation, they'll share how their partnership addresses the crisis of gun violence and how sports can be a force for cultural change.

2:54 Then in the second half of the episode, we dive deeper into Steve Kerr's leadership philosophy and the new technologies from AI to robotics that are reshaping the NBA. and amplifying players potential. This episode does touch on technology, but explores a wider range of our normal definition of what's possible. Through advocacy, policy, and coalition building. Here's our conversation.

3:17 With Steve Kerr and Chris Brown. All right, Steve, great to see you again, Chris. Uh, very nice to meet you. Excellent to have you on the podcast. I'll kick us off. So Steve, as coach of the Golden State Warriors, you've led teams to four championships, and even that historic Seventy three nine season. You often talk about culture and helping players become the best versions of themselves. What do you see as the cornerstone?

3:50 Of your leadership philosophy. I would say uh Collaboration, coaching. I think it's really important if you're in a position of authority to really know your stuff. But it's equally as important to admit that you don't know everything. So I really empow my players to voice their opinions and and all of our coaches. It doesn't matter if they're the newest guy or the oldest guy. I want everybody to chip in. And when everyone feels comfortable bringing ideas and you end up with genuine collaboration, You usually end up

4:21 In the best place. And can you talk to us about a story of like you talked about your sort of imposter syndrome in your early days with the Chicago Bulls. I don't know why, because candidly I was 11 years old and this is true. Every single day I checked the newspaper in the morning to make sure that Michael Jordan still had the most points of anyone and to make sure that you still had the top uh three point percentage of anyone in the league every day as an 11 year old. I got the paper and that's all I cared about. So I don't know why you had this imposter syndrome that maybe you had to overcome, but Can you can you share a story of perhaps this particular player who you think sort of really thrived under that philosophy? Well, first uh as a player, I didn't have any uh scholarship offers coming out of high school. And so I really was an underdog for for a reason. I I really wasn't that good to be honest with you. I was kind of a late bloomer. And so I had to s sort of build my confidence as I learned and I grew, but I played for great coaches and and Phil Jackson was uh just an incredible communicator and collaborator

5:23 And when I got to Chicago, my career really Took off. I learned from Phil, I learned from Greg Popovich, and that style that I have really mirrors theirs. You know, there was just an open forum every day in in Chicago, in San Antonio. So I I think, you know, Draymond Green comes to mind. He's as smart of a defensive basketball player I've ever seen. So when I started opening it up You know, to him, uh saying, Hey, what do you think?

5:52 Boy, he jumped in and he loved sharing his opinion. And by the way, he's usually right. So he's a guy I think of. Draymond will like to hear that he's usually right. Yeah. You know, the values that you've learned on the court extend beyond basketball. And into the issues that you champion.

6:09 So how have these leadership values, the leadership style uh fueled your advocacy Against gun violence and your partnership. With Chris and Brady. You know, I was personally affected by gun violence. My dad w was killed um when he was um fifty two.

6:26 I was eighteen. So it's something that affected my family deeply. And I think I realized as I became, you know, more recognizable, more famous um as the Warriors coach. We we really took off and started winning championships and, you know, social media is exploding and and I just became a much more recognizable figure and I realized that I could actually uh have a voice in in this area where I had deep concerns. But I I needed to learn more about the issue. I needed to learn how to speak on the issue in an intelligent way. So Brady reached out to me, and it was that was like nine years ago, I think. And um, it was the best thing that I could do because it uh Brady taught me. how to speak on this issue and what was happening and what's important and where are the areas where we can make improvements and we've had a great partnership ever since.

7:17 I used to run an organization, do something, and we would always actually talk about the partnership that you guys had as such an amazing example of a nonprofit organization partnering with someone who both had personal experience, but could also use their voice. And Chris, I think you've done just an excellent job. And you, you know, you began your career on Capitol Hill. advocating for what would become the groundbreaking Brady Bill. And that, for those who don't know, that mandated federal background checks for firearm sales, which seems like such a no-brainer. And so Looking back at that early work, Chris, what were the significant lessons you learned about the intersection of policy, advocacy, you know, publicity that sort of continues to guide your work? So many lessons learned from that. And truly from the masters, Jim and Sarah.

8:02 Brady, I guess three really sort of stand out to me. The importance of never giving up when you know you're fighting for something that's so critically important. That's the first. The second is The importance of innovation. We don't always think about Government is innovative, but when you're trying to get a bill passed into law, you have to be innovative and you have to be responsive. And the third is probably being strategic. about how we approach an issue that's the number one killer of our kids.

8:33 And you know, Jim and Sarah were lifelong gun owners. Jim was shot about three months into his service. As Ronald Reagan's press secretary. He had grievous injuries. He died years later, but after being Harmed enough that he was basically bound to a wheelchair. He died twice at GW and was revived. He, in other words, had suffered

8:57 The worst. That gun violence could deliver him. The worst had happened. And yet he devoted his life with Sarah to ensure other people Did not Get injured.

9:09 And killed. In this way, in much the same way that Steve is doing. Right, and that I think for me as a human being. I feel that for those of us who are not. victims of gun violence, it's on us to lift our voices here. And that to me was a real lesson because I do have to tell people over and over again, it gives me hope that after six years and seven votes, that's how long it took for the Brady Law to be enacted, it actually passed

9:37 the Senate by unanimous consent. That means not a single member of the Senate voted against it. It's a lot because they were strategic. They kept lists of every single conversation they had and they found different persuasion and they were innovative. They changed the bill over time, and thank goodness, because that law has now stopped. the sale of more than five million firearms to prohibited purchasers. And so that's really a guide star for us and how we think about the issue. As one that is challenging. But that is

10:12 Absolutely. solvable because It is a stain on our country that guns are the number one killer of our kids, and I won't accept it. And I know that Steve and many others will not either. Amazing work.

10:26 But part of the reason why we wanted to have this conversation,'cause it's obviously Incredibly important. For saving American children's lives, American lives. You know, I don't know how many unanimous Senate votes there are in history. It'd be kind of interesting. I'm thinking it might be a good AI, uh deep research topic for me to go ask that. Hi there. Gemini here

10:47 with some additional context. The question of how often major legislation passes by unanimous consent like the Brady Bill is tricky. It is extremely rare for a contentious, major bill to pass with a truly unanimous vote. The Brady Bill which mandated federal background checks for handgun purchases, is a perfect illustration of why.

11:06 While the final procedural step in the Senate, adopt the conference report, was accomplished via a voice vote. Often referred to as unanimous consent when no one objects. The core bill was highly divisive. Earlier. The bill had passed the Senate 63-36 and the House 238-189.

11:23 The significance of that final, unanimous procedure was not full agreement. but rather a procedural concession. After a seven-year political war, The gun lobby's opposition had been defeated on the substantive votes. That final quick step simply reflected the opposition acknowledging defeat and choosing not to drag out the end of a bill that was already a landmark, high-profile victory for gun violence prevention advocates.

11:48 So like kind of elaborating this, you know, one of the things that we also thought was kind of the wonder of the story is not just the success at preventing Five million. wrong sales of guns and What that means for saving lives and saving children's lives.

12:04 But also the fact that it's an all of us. you know, kind of issue. But how does um Steve's voice as a basketball coach you know, help strengthen the mission and collective impact. What's surprised and delighted you most Uh, so far in the nine years of this partnership. Well, I have to say on my plane ride over here.

12:23 I watched Ted Lasso for the fifteenth time, probably. And I was thinking to myself, the human being that comes closest to Ted Lasso that I'm so thrilled to know is absolutely Coach Kerr. in every possible way. And I think For our cause. The folks who are really

12:42 causing issues for us are yes, gun rights extremists, but more Sinister is hopelessness. And we can't be inured to gun violence, so seeing someone like Coach Kerr following you Vol day any basketball questions uh don't matter. Since we left shooter on fourteen children were killed four hundred miles from here. Yeah.

13:07 And a and a teacher. When are we gonna do something? I'm tired of the Моменцов сайленс. Enough. So I ask you, Mitch McConnell, I ask all of you senators who refuse to do anything about the violence and school shootings and supermarket shootings, I ask you.

13:25 Are you going to put your own Desire for power ahead of the lives. Of our children. And our elderly and our church goers. Because that's what it looks like.

13:37 They won't vote on it because they want to hold on to their own power. It's pathetic. I've had enough. Everyone I know that I meet across this country. Remembers That even if they didn't see it.

13:52 It went viral for a reason. He's a survivor. He lost his father this way, but he's a coach, and too often. It's been thoughts and prayers or a moment of silence and People saw that raw emotion and felt Empowered. I want to do something more.

14:10 And It's beyond that, too, because for every meeting that we have with Coach, even though he is by now an absolute expert on our issue. He comes with a notebook and a pen. He's always a student. Of

14:25 This cause of what more he can do. He shows up and he wants to use his platform. We can't find a partner. Who is better? More capable. And I hope he can be a beacon to many others who, even if you don't have a full platform. You have spheres of influence. Well first of all, thank you for the

14:47 Wonderful uh compliment. Chris. I was actually just doodling at one during those meetings I wasn't taking that. No, it's drawing out plays. Yeah, drawing up plays, yeah. I I think the uh The most important thing for people to Realize is that

15:03 We know that The government is not going to handle this on their own, right? There's just this is like a cultural issue. It's a legislation issue. It's you know, we're we're just stuck in this stupid political society where we are right now, where it's completely dysfunctional. So what is going to change this? Is the people.

15:23 of our country. We know that about ninety percent of Americans want universal background checks. We know that the vast majority of people, whether you're a re Republican or a Democrat, actually want common sense gun safety laws, right? We all know that we are protecting our own children or our neighbor's children. So We can't leave it up. to our elected representatives to do this on their we have to

15:49 uh the cause to the point where The public opinion is so strong. that they have no choice but to address it. Right now it's just being ignored because it's a really good hot button. to get yourself elected on. And there's fear mongering like every other point in our, you know, political world these days, there's all this fear mongering goes going on. They want to take away your guns, right?

16:13 That's not true at all. You know, in fact, really the people we are trying to reach is the gun owners. A hundred percent. We want you to Provide your Children with the safest possible home. So that's why Brady has this end family fire campaign going on. There's eight

16:30 children or teens a day. That are shot. accidentally in the United States by guns that are not stored safely. So this is not Hey, we're trying to take your guns away. This is we want our kids to be safe. We want you to be safe. There's a middle ground to be found here where you get your second amendment rights. We protect our children and we can form a much healthier society. I think, Steve, one thing you said that's so important. Everything right now is partisan. Everyone thinks it's fifty fifty. But to your point.

17:01 It's not fifty fifty on this issue. Ninety percent of Americans are in agreement that this is something we need Republican, Democrat, military families, gun owners. And Chris, what you said that I think is so critical again in these polarized times is the worst thing that can happen is that we lose hope. The opposite of hope is cynicism. And if we think there's nothing to be done, then nothing is gonna be done. If we need a legislative solution, what what could we do? Is there a way to build like actual bipartisan momentum on this issue? Yes, there is. And I do want to note that only Uh about three years ago now, we did in fact pass what's called the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, right? We had 15 Republicans vote yes on that measure. And it was

17:49 After Uvalde, and there was a lot of pressure to do something more. Did it have everything we wanted? No. It didn't But Uh it was an important milestone for us, and I will tell you for It it is

18:02 too often partisan in the United States Congress. It's the only house or Senate, where this issue is it all controversial. They know. Huge, vast majorities. Of their constituents.

18:16 care about this issue tremendously. My friends who are in the legislature when they go door knocking They say It's guns and health care as the top two issues. Gun violence prevention is an issue up and down the ballot. It's not just at the federal level, right? We have fifty mostly contiguous states. California is one of the states where We have gotten more gun violence prevention bills passed than any other state.

18:44 Now we often hear from folks on the other side Well, it doesn't matter, you know. State laws really don't work. That is bunk. The five states With the

18:55 Most strong gun laws. Have a seventy one percent Reduced experience. Compared to the states

19:05 Витвікст Laws. We we're not sitting around as an organization that has chapters and advocates and partners across this country waiting for this particular Congress or this particular president to move forward. But we are incubating The next set of solutions in every possible state that we can, and increasingly in many purple states. And I just want to add

19:31 For us at Brady, this is a Public health epidemic. And so we looked at How have we solved other public health epidemics in time? Drunk driving used to be a huge killer. People weren't wearing seat belts.

19:45 The way those issues were solved, yes, they got better policy. Yes, they got better enforcement of the law. But it started actually. with social norm change campaigns, with buckle up. With designated driver, you have to win the hearts and minds of people. And bridge divides that way.

20:04 And then The policy's a lot easier to have happen, as is the enforcement. That's why for us at Brady, our big focus is on our End Family Fire campaign and also working with Hollywood. We now have agreements with all of the major studios. To reframe how guns are portrayed on TV. Let's lift up responsible gun ownership. Let's have people putting firearms.

20:30 In safes. Let's have the police officer coming home and locking up his gun because you know what Most of them Almost everyone I've ever talked to who's a law enforcement officer says the minute I get home, that's the first thing. that I do, and they're trained to do that, and that's what their collective bargaining agreements require, right? So I think for us, we think about this very holistically, if you can't change the laws.

20:55 You change the lawmakers. And ultimately That power Rest with us. We have to inform ourselves of who is a gun violence prevention champion like Maxwell Frost, who we helped elect amazing first Gen Z member of Congress.

21:11 And who's not? Because almost every candidate running out there is staking a position on one side of the line or the other. It's pretty binary. Completely agree. Now, this is kind of a little bit of a stage left question, but I'm curious for either of you, do you see any role for technology, uh innovation? Might be a social media question in terms of memes, you know. TikTok, YouTube, et cetera. Um, but also maybe other things that you think hold real promise. Chris, let's start with you and then Steve will pun intended pass the ball.

21:46 Well, the first that I would raise is why is it harder For me to access my phone. Then it is. To access a firearm. Why don't we have smart gun technology on every single gun?

21:59 Manufactured in the United States. And the reason is because The gun industry effectively uh behaves as a cabal.

22:09 And is mostly unregulated. But There would be a great opportunity And a good market For an innovator

22:17 Who decided that they wanted to partner. With one of those companies. To make money is selling smart guns to many gun owners who would be eager. To purchase exactly those kinds of firearms. And the same is true, Reed. For gun safes, we've seen a lot of

22:35 Improvement in gun safes. I have a neighbor who just bought one. Smaller for his handgun. I Put my finger on it, it opened in one second. There's a lot more opportunity to make even less expensive. So so the kids couldn't open them, for example. A hundred percent. So kids can't open them. And I I just have to say why is that so important? Seventy six percent of school shooters get their guns from a home where that firearm is not safely stored.

23:00 We could cut Gundas and half. Tomorrow And it wouldn't take another law being passed. It wouldn't take better enforcement. Of course, I want these things. So that's really important. The other opportunity, and since I'm talking to you, Reed Hoffman, I'm gonna raise this again. The gun industry has immunity from liability.

23:22 Purported and you know as a businessman there is something That you focus on when you know there's a risk of litigation. Associated with innovation. Like research and development and all of these things. And you as a supplier of a product. would be very unlikely to allow your

23:43 product to be sold by a dealer That routinely sells to traffickers of firearms, right? That wouldn't make a lot of sense. That doesn't happen. With gun manufacturers today. What we know Із фацен

23:59 of gun dealers in this country and we have more of them than McDonald's and and Starbucks combined. Five percent of them. А респал форти пер Of guns recovered in crime. So what if you had an organization that knew which dealers in the country We're routinely violating the law.

24:19 And you could provide that information through a technology solution. To gun purchasers, to the federal government and state governments, the organization that could help a tech entrepreneur do that. is Brady. We have that information. We just need to make it ubiquitous, and we need technology platforms. To do that.

24:42 I think there's a stack of great ideas there. You know, I know this may be heretical, especially amongst the gun industry, but like I tend to be in favor of as opposed to like the no liability, it's like here is where you have safe harbor. Yes. If you're behaving within these norms. Right. Exactly. Like you have a list.

25:02 Of people you don't sell to because they sell a whole bunch of guns to criminals, or the people who go and kill a whole bunch of people, you know, like, okay. Don't sell to those people. Exactly. So we have a code of conduct that Could be used as a safe harbour.

25:17 Have you made sure you trained your employees? Do you bring your inventory back at night? Right. Have you done all of these things? Well, you should get a safe harbor. I I completely agree with you. I mean, I think it's so clear here that this is such an important issue, and there's so many things we can do. We can go the legislative route, uh, we can go the technological route. And then of course, I think sort of at the heart of all of that is what is the public communications and how are we gonna get sort of everyday citizens, everyday Americans to do something? And so Steve, you spoke up about uh Laura Ingram's shut up and dribble comment, uh telling you know, athletes just stay in your lane, please. Like what is your argument against that? And how do you convince other people who have, you know, stature and influence in social media to speak out when like they'll get some pushback for sure. Well, I don't really try to convince anybody. I just try to set an example that if we choose to, we have that power. And the thing I learned right away was

26:14 know what you're talking about. Um the first thing I said when I did the podcast in 2015 Where I brought it up. And by the way, the reason I did it is'cause we had three consecutive moments of silence during the playoffs that year. For mass shootings, you know, and and by the third one, it's like okay, enough. When I did the podcast, I said, you know, we can't have these automatic weapons. out on the streets. And I immediately got all this feedback from gun owners like we don't

26:41 Have automatic weapons. We have semi automatic weapons. And I learned quickly, like, oh, I better know what I'm talking about. So make sure you do your homework. That's why I connected with Brady to learn maybe the most important thing I learned was was day one that I think about every day is don't call it gun control. Soon as you say gun control, it sounds like government control. Refer to it as gun violence prevention, because that's really what we're trying to do. We're not trying to control anybody. We're just trying to save lives and protect people. So there's this middle ground that's just waiting for us, but I think most people don't really understand the power that they have. And you can talk to your representative.

27:19 And bring all these things up. And ultimately that's what it's gonna take is a cultural movement where Our representatives have no choice but to listen to us. Have you guys done any kind of social media campaigns like the Ice Bucket Challenge, other kinds of things? Have they have they worked?'Cause kind of cultural norms, like one of the things that we tend to think as technologists is these new media allow a much broader participatory. Like you can imagine

27:45 you know, high school kids saying, Save my life, be responsible about guns. You know, have you guys done any of that? Reed, maybe you could help me with that. You know, honestly. Delighted. I uh honestly, th I think there are so many opportunities. You know, I got rid of social media four years ago and I've been living blissfully ever since. But uh unfortunately I wouldn't know how to even start on a campaign like that. But If I had somebody helping me with it. One hundred percent. I would try to optimize my platform in a way that could reach more people. You know, one of the most powerful voices after Uvalde was actually Matthew McConahy. You know, he drove to Uvalde and he's a he's a Texan, he's a gun owner. I think it's one thing for people to hear From me, the you know, the liberal coach from San Francisco. Uh, but I think the more people out there who can really relate to from the gun owners side, we know.

28:37 We want to amplify those voices and we have so many different stories to tell. The ability to do that in a way that would partner with Others who have

28:50 Larger social media platforms could be transformative because what's happening right now is that either bots, right, or Really extremist individuals who don't represent What ninety percent of Americans think. con seem to control the narrative and they're cowing Participation away from

29:10 The average person So we need to demonstrate, hey, look, there is this broad swath of support because it's there, but I don't think it's as obvious to the average American. As it is to Me and others in this movement. couple of my team members I know will enthusiastically, as well as myself and Aria try to help on this. Um Aria was the CO of Do Something, which is the largest teen philanthropy network. So we will endeavor to help because I think it's very important.

29:39 So, Chris, uh, this is a classic possible question. Can you leave us with a final thought about what you think is possible to achieve if everything breaks humanity's way? In the next fifteen years. And then what's our first step? To set off in that direction. In fifteen years.

29:54 If we focus On Things like and family fire, safe storage. And the cultural piece of this, we have the ability to not only ensure that every firearm in every home is safely stored, and of course

30:10 That is cutting gun dust in half. But then on top of that, the technologies around controlling the supply chain. When we're talking about That issue that is driving

30:23 Homicides across the country. So that's a different element of gun violence. We can materially decrease those homicides. We could stop trafficking if we wanted to. with the right supply chain approach Augmented by technology and And The blue sky there is gun violence is not the number one killer of our kids. It's more in line

30:45 with the experience of every other industrialized Country. Across the globe, we have twenty-five times that. And I remember just to close, when I lived in Switzerland, I lived in that kind of environment. I lived in Zurich for seven years and I raised my daughter's first seven years of their lives there and

31:03 I would often get asked the question when I was there by pretty sophisticated people who were traveling to the United States, hey, Chris, where can I go in the United States and not get shot? And it was a totally legitimate question based on how their press Covers.

31:20 Our gun violence epidemic, which Is Gob smacking to them. They do not understand it. And I will tell you If you live in a society where gun violence isn't an everyday reality

31:33 You have A happiness quotient, a peace. quotient. That changes how you behave and it changes how you parent. What I want is for every American to regain that.

31:45 Because we've lost it. We're not always cognizant of it, but I know too many people. Who stopped going to the movies? or to concerts or look at where all of the exits are. That's not the land of the free and home of the brave.

31:58 That's a stain on our country. We can reclaim that again, and that's I think worth doing. I mean, too often the people who are are not fighting for gun violence prevention wrap themselves in freedom. And to your point, Chris, like actually what freedom means is to be a parent who doesn't have to worry about their kid going to school. That's what freedom is. And and it's what we should all get to enjoy. Yeah, absolutely. Chris. Thank you. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you. Stay tuned for the second part of our interview with Steve Kerr. But first, a word from our sponsor.

32:29 Steve, so my little brother and my little brother, he's six nine, he actually played basketball at Stanford. So he was also a pack ten when an existed athlete. And it's actually funny you were getting a snack. I remember visiting him at Stanford and he just like had like P and Js in his bag. Like Dan Grunfeld came over and was like, I have ten bananas. You want one? My brother's like, Oh, I have ten P and J like anyone, like Lopez twins, you wanna? And I was like, What is happening? But I get it. As a basketball player, you you need to have snacks at all times. I'll say. I'll say. Um and so he had the privilege of working with some legendary coaches throughout his career and then actually became a coach as well. But you have worked, as you mentioned, with some of the greatest coaches in the MBA, Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich. Is there any anecdote or lesson instilled in you by them?

33:27 It maybe went even beyond basketball strategy, leadership, et cetera. What what did you learn from them that you still, you know, draw on today? Well, I think what I Didn't realize at the time when I was playing for them. was that the culture was really set by their values and their authenticity. And they were such different human beings, you know, Phil was uh Beatnik in the seventies and you know, he wrote a book and it was called Maverick and it was about his hippie life. And he talked about, you know, taking mushrooms and psychedelics and You know, Pop was an air force uh cadet and uh military style and and uh you know, it was uh two completely different approaches, but

34:07 Each was so authentic. and so true to their values. And I don't think I realized it while I was playing for them. I think I sort of put it together after the fact. But When I became a coach and I asked both of those two and um several other mentors, you know, what's the most important thing for me to know as a coach.

34:27 Everybody's like be yourself. You have to be yourself. As soon as you try to be someone else and emulate someone You're you're in trouble. And and so I just think the authenticity of how you lead is the number one thing. I couldn't agree more. I mean, I I was certainly not a leader on the same stage as you, but I absolutely remember trying to be other people. Like, oh my God, if I'm just as creative as them, or if I just like no me too. Me too. I mean, no, it they're they're you're tempted to go that route because you see someone else who's so successful and you go, Oh gosh, maybe I should be doing things more like them, but there's a huge difference between taking an idea from someone and actually trying to take on their persona. You know, I read about other coaches all the time, and I love to read about different ways people are leading and But it's um crucial to maintain your own

35:17 approach an identity while instilling ideas that you learn. From others. I strongly agree with both of you on this a corollary that I think I may have put in the startup of you. My very first book is Generally speaking, you want to play to your strengths.

35:31 versus try to paper over your weaknesses. You you have a team To help with the different kind of the weaknesses side. That's right. But you want to play to your strengths and you want to play to where you can be great. So true. And the so the the people that I hire uh to be on my staff. Um, I try to hire people who can cover up my weaknesses and who have, you know, stronger abilities on in certain areas where when we have a staff meeting and we're brainstorming, I can lean on them. And and um and that's when it really clicks, I think, uh for a team, for a coaching staff, or any group of people When everyone is comfortable that they can bring a strength And they don't have to bring everything, you know, especially the leader just knowing what you don't know is important and really empowering others to fill those blanks. It it makes them feel good and it's better for for everybody and it just strengthens the whole group. Thousand percent. So um

36:22 See, we don't normally do this, but I wanna invite our show runner, Sean who has not only been a Wars fan Since the eighties um But who was also a collegiate basketball player himself. So I'll resume after him, but leave The basketball nerdy question.

36:40 To him. All right. Let's go, Sean. All right. All right. Honored uh cameo for a second here. Uh and great to see you, Steve. Um. So I can think of a few of many moments. Or as a coach. Your instincts completely change the game. So there's Iguala in the twenty fifteen finals.

36:59 Uh the Bogat versus Tony Allen matchup, which was pretty innovative and unusual in that game versus Memphis. Then letting your players run the huddles versus the suns. Again, these are just a few of like many come to mind. So as fans, we ask and we hear about the in game instincts of a player so often.

37:18 But less about the in-game instincts of coaches. So really the question I wanted to ask you was that like in those instances and others, can you talk about your in-game instincts as a coach? Like how much of it is planned and how much of it is pure gut and feel in the moment. Yeah. No, it's a great question. I I um you we go into every game with a game plan, you know But you know the old line from Mike Tyson, everyone's got a plan until you get punched in the face, right? So you have to be ready to adjust, but so you try to uh envision, you know, what could go wrong. Um, for example, you know, foul trouble for

37:53 Steph Current is if he picks up two quick fouls. Um How are we gonna handle that? It depends on our opponent, right? If it's a if it's an opponent that we think he can uh survive against maybe because of the personnel. I'll let'em play. If it's a team that draws a lot of fouls and it's really a d a difficult team to guard one on one. I'll probably take him out. And and so you kinda go into these games with an idea of a game plan, a rotation. And then you learn over time your team, you learn them really well, both individually and collectively. And hopefully, you know, as you go through the season, you

38:29 You learn more and more things, you pick up things and by the playoffs you you really have a great feel. for the adjustments that you have to make. And then of course it's up to the gods, you know, the the ball has to go in, and and that's why every coach is subject to incredible scrutiny and criticism because Yeah, we make decisions that

38:51 All we're trying to do is give give ourselves the best Chance. That doesn't mean it's gonna work. You know, so you give yourself the best chance, you think. And then if it doesn't work. I tell the players all the time the reason they pay us a lot of money is because people care and they're emotional and passionate. Part of my job is to just take it, just accept that uh

39:14 You know, we're gonna take a lot of heat as coaches, they're gonna take a lot of heat as players. This is the business, but you just support each other and live with the results. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Um thanks so much. Yeah, thank you. As you can tell, uh, Sean, uh for the super nerdy basketball uh questions. I think that was a three pointer on that one. Um, but that actually brings me to another question here, which is, you know, one of the challenging change of landscape. that social media brings and kind of the modern world at tech. is there's this blood

39:47 of attention, participation, you know, athletes face, you know, judgment and criticism, especially on social media. So how do you help Do the leadership on that part of it. Yeah. It was it was really easy in in my day, you know, if you'd if you wanted to avoid it. He didn't turn on Talk radio, which was like

40:07 Maybe from two to five in the afternoon. And you didn't pick up the local newspaper. So when I was a player, I would literally pick up USA Today because I knew there wouldn't be any stories about our team. But I could see all the box scores and the score. You know, this is pre-internet, obviously. Um once the internet came around, it changed everything and and our players now they have this judgment and criticism at their fingertips. I go in at half time. Everybody's on their phone. Um, it's just the way we live. So You know, we use some humor sometimes to try to, you know, I'll just go in and

40:40 Make a joke. What what are people saying about me on social media? You know, did I get any likes on uh you know, on social media in that first half for my decision making guy, you know, guys will kinda chuckle and Put their phones down. But the biggest thing honestly is is giving them

40:56 The reminder that they control The input. Right. I mean you don't have to look at this stuff. And when I got off of social media four years ago.

41:06 So best decision I made because I I immediately Eliminated. I don't know, eighty or ninety percent of The criticism that I was reading about myself. And I don't care who you are, you're a human being, it affects you. But the other part of it is just w and we tell our our team every year, you know, this is a hard job. It's a dream job.

41:28 But it's a hard job. You know, you're Gonna get injured, you're gonna get booed. You're gonna get trade, you're gonna get cut. And people on social media are gonna destroy you.

41:38 But this is why you are making them the amount of money you are. And that doesn't justify These crazy people out there who are, you know Making death threats if you lose a game. But it's a reminder, like

41:53 If you want to do this for a living, this is the job. And now you have to learn how to navigate it. And you know, that's kind of the foundation that we lay for our guys. So the the people who listen to possible are nonprofit leaders like Chris. They are technologists who are building technology companies. And Reed and I, like what we try to do with this podcast is to sort of bring out everyone's better angels. Like what is possible with your company, with your NGO, with your voice as a citizen, like how can we often use technology to sort of build this better future? And so you cannot do that unless your organization, your company is a strong team. And so I think so many people look to you. How do you build these incredible teams? And you know, the the obvious is like, Well, you know, you get some good players, you look for raw talent, you look for good statistics, like What are the intangibles you think that are sometimes overlooked when you're building those championship caliber teams?

42:45 Well, the number one um commodity for lack of a better word in the NBA is a superstar player with high character. You know, uh it they're they're just really hard to find. People like Steph Curry or Michael Jordan or Tim Duncan, by the way, I've followed all of those three through my career, and it's the reason I've had success, is because I've been on the same team as these guys. But I've recognized that internal leadership from your best players. is crucial, you know, for a company out there. Every hire is so important, but uh especially the key people you lean on, the values that you share that you espouse, uh, it's really important that you share those. Values with

43:27 your team leaders, your your people, your internal leadership. And those values have to come alive every day. They can't be words on a wall. You know, I've I've played on teams where there's slogans written on a wall and you're like, I don't feel that every day. I think the thing I've learned from my coaches is whatever your values are. If those things are coming alive every single day, then Your your players, your employees.

43:50 They feel those values and then it's like Oh, wait a second. This is real. And then the authenticity of the relationship day after day, the communication. If all that is real, then People look forward to coming to work and working together. Having said that, if if I didn't have Steph Curry, I Would have been fired years ago. So you gotta have a good product, you know, you gotta you have to have talent, you have to have ideas. It's r and that's why it's really a collaboration, you know, it's multiple people and dynamics coming together.

44:23 at once, and even though we all try to make that happen, it's not always possible. Absolutely. Yeah, and and by the way, I've met Steph. He's a treasure. He's incredible. He's incredible. So you know they The NBA has had a

44:36 a long history of adopting advanced analytics. AI. Now taking a step further, you know, there was um one example, uh Daryl Morey of the uh Philadelphia seventy sixers said that LLM models are taken into account as a vote in any decision from draft picks to game strategy. So how is this money ball kind of approach fundamentally changed how teams Make decisions today.

45:00 When I got here eleven years ago, we had one analytics person. Now we have a whole department. My coaching staff and I had no idea how to read the numbers that they were feeding us. There were all these figures That eleven years ago were not familiar to us. We were uh we were versed in the basic box score field goal attempts, field goal percentage, the stuff that's been tracked forever. So all of a sudden they're giving us these numbers, points per possession, points per shot that didn't make much sense to us. So we started in on it, you know, for me 11 years ago when I began coaching, and what we realized was we needed coaches who were younger and more versed in computers and analytics. So we started hiring

45:45 Some former college basketball players who had Uh a a better knowledge of all this stuff to join our staff. We also built up our analytics team.

45:57 So now we have a whole team of analytics people and we have uh two in every meeting, every coach's meeting, and we have young coaches who Not only have been raised in the analytics world, but have played basketball using modern basketball analytics and so

46:15 My my knowledge of this area f now from eleven years ago is just dramatically different. I can actually speak the language. And so it's easier to parse through the information. We get reams of data. I know now what matters, what doesn't, just through watching tape, learning the language, conversing with the analytics team and We're getting all kinds of stuff every day, some of which I use with the team. And because our players now have been versed in it, they too recognize it and understand it. So I guess it's like every other movement, right? You just people are now learning and we're learning together and it's becoming more mainstream. Well, to even take it a step further. So Uh, we heard that the warriors are using

46:59 AI powered robots in some practice sessions for you know drills like rebounding and simulating defensive plans. Tell me how true that is. What has that experience been like? If you guys do that, and do you think sort of robots will be part of the routine going forward? It sounds like science fiction. It's it's not happening yet, uh, but it's going to happen. And last year at the NBA Tech Summit, the reason this got out there is because I did uh a segment where I was commanding all these robots. um on defensive drills. But they weren't actually there yet. So we haven't actually done it yet, but the robots do exist and we are studying more and more about what's possible in terms of you know what we can do on the practice floor, what we can do with our players and their development. And so it's gonna be really interesting to see what comes of it over the next decade because this stuff

47:52 It changes and happens so quickly, as you guys know much better than I do. Well, that's what I was gonna say. I mean, there's there's all kinds of technology. I mean, even the nutrition science and the different ways athletes eat or prepare or recover, like all of that is science and technology marching forward. And so When you think about this, it is this a good thing? Is this a bad thing? Like how do you see technology and the NBA progressing going forward? It's a great thing. We have a guy on our performance staff who monitors All of our players throughout practice. He's on his computer screen and the players are wearing monitors underneath their practice jerseys and we we are monitoring Everything that's happening with their heart and their breath and their their energy load. And we are now leaning on our performance team to dictate our practice schedule every day. Not the details of what we're doing, but the output physically that our players put out.

48:47 So in the past, it was up to coaches to kind of guess, you know, how are we have to pace our players through the eighty two game season. And you have to know when to practice harder, one to practice uh lighter. Well now we have evidence and we have experts who are really dictating this stuff. And I think it's awesome because it takes a lot of pressure off me in terms of

49:10 You know, w what we're doing with the players, every we have a formula now and we we think we can keep our players healthier as a result. What's one of the surprising results that come out of the kind of personal performance monitoring. Yeah. So something that came out uh this year, we we have a coaching retreat every year and our analytics team shares different um bits of data and one of the things that jumped out to me this year was that there is a A huge difference in athleticism in terms of

49:39 quick burst, you know, how fast a guy is, and then Reaction time. So some players have better feel than others, right? So they're in the right spot. before the play happens'cause they recognize it. Other guys maybe don't see that.

49:55 But they're more Athletic. Okay, and and this is every team has this dynamic. And I was You know, when I played I was a slower guy who knew where to be, right? Um and every team has faster guys who um if they if you have faster guys who know where to be, then you've got something, right? That's kinda what you're looking for. But the faster guys are more athletic guys who don't. maybe know how to where to be, they have to use way more energy.

50:20 to get to that spot. And so what our analytics team shared with us was that You know, some of the players around the NBA who are the most athletic and the most explosive are incapable Of playing Longer minutes. because they're constantly reacting instead of being proactive. I thought that was fascinating. And I never would have put that together.

50:42 Without You know, that that data. Absolutely. And the other thing that I think is only a question of time. And so it's question is has it started yet or not? is um with AI we've got this whole multimodal thing going. And there's a variety of ways that's already functional ways that people don't expect. Like one of the things that I've said a few different places is something I learned from Ethan Mullock, who's a professor at Horton.

51:05 about like using cameras to study construction sites. Have you guys run the game footage through AI kind of multimodal kind of analysis and so forth? You will. If you haven't. Yeah. But have you done it yet? And has there been anything interesting out of it? Yeah, the league the league has cameras in ever all thirty arenas that gather all kinds of data. Um, for example, one of the bits of data that we didn't have eleven years ago or maybe fifteen years ago was we know exactly how many Miles, Steph Curry.

51:40 Runs Every game. And then we collect that for the entire year. Every year he's number one in the league in the most mileage run. We didn't have any of that back then. We also can tell the speed that players are running at, and so we know who's running fastest and how fast players are running today compared to twenty years ago. The game is dramatically faster now. We also have uh in our

52:04 practice facility. We have cameras with facial recognition. Every time a player on our team comes into our practice arena or practice facility and they take a shot, that shot is recorded onto a program. And so at the end of If we want every day, we but we probably look at it once every couple of weeks. We have it

52:25 Every shot that a player has taken in practice, how many, how many he made, if he missed, was it missing left, missing right, missing long, what the arc of of the shot was. And then we get together with our coaches and we realize, all right, we have all this data, how can we help our players now? With shooting, we also kinda know Which guys are working harder than than others, you know. And uh It's pretty interesting. We never had any of this stuff before. And so we got a lot of data and a lot of information at our fingertips. Another kind of obvious one is, you know. You have opponents.

53:00 Have you done any of that analysis on opponent players too? Cause that would have been that is the next logical step. uh out of this kind of performance analysis. Yeah. So because we have the cameras in every arena, you have the data available on your opponents as well. You know, only from Games. You use the data to help Build game plans. You know Um now with proof not just

53:25 Scouting, let's say a guy has a tendency to You know, go right, drive right instead of drive left. You know, in the old days you watched a lot of tape, you watched that player. And you tell your team, hey, this guy likes to drive ride, so shade that you know, now we know to a team we know exactly on every drive the exact percentage. Maybe it's fifty-one percent, maybe it's seventy-two percent. So that influences how you approach the game. If it's seventy two percent, you're definitely forcing him

53:54 To go the opposite way where he's uncomfortable. So it's not just Eyes it's eyes and data. I mean it takes scouting reports to another level. Yeah. Completely scouting stuff must be. And then by the way, on the biometrics, since the players are Yeah. Wearing the biometrics.

54:12 Do you data correlate the biometrics with like the shots and discover things from those correlations? The correlation between Like fatigue, you mean? Yes. Uh yes, absolutely. And and uh you know, fortunately we have professionals who do that. Literally the you know, the people who are monitoring all that. Cause I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't know the first thing about how to put this all together, but I have conversations um frequently with our guys who are monitoring it and they'll share with me like hey, after twenty minutes of play, this guy's shot tends to fade. You know, because he's tired. You know, and and you already have a sense as a coach of Yeah, how long a guy's capable of playing.

54:50 But some of this stuff can be really revealing. Like Steph is an incredibly well conditioned athlete. And he's the um exception rather than the rule. He still shoots really well even after playing thirty five minutes, but You definitely learn there's kind of limitations on effectiveness of a certain player. Once he gets past that threshold and As I said, now we have a performance guy on a computer.

55:15 sharing that knowledge. Because he also has access to the analytics team that tells him the shooting percentage after a certain period of time. So it's crazy the difference between now and even twenty years ago what we were doing. By the way, I'm I'm envisioning, because you know, we have this kind of star athlete within like AI researchers and so forth. I'm just thinking about what the parallels between what you're doing here and what you might do at an AI company Uh, with, you know, the person who's being paid. So are there have you thought of any? I mean, we're doing amplification and code agents and so forth, but there's probably some natural things about watching performance of how you build code, build do air research and so forth. Biometrics.

55:56 what the outputs look like, what the fitness function looks like, and then kind of coaching the better performance. And given that the salary levels are if anything, some of them probably even bigger. So the function of like, for example Should you actually have this whole get up? Should you have coaches and so forth? trying to improve it, the answer is absolutely yes, given that it's the economic thing that shows that performance. Yeah. Let's move to rapid fire.

56:27 So is there a movie, song, or book? That fills you with optimism. For the future. I just read Gentlemen in Moscow. And uh I don't know if you've read it. It's a great novel about a guy who's stuck in a hotel.

56:39 you know, for his m basically most of his adult life. And he has a great line. He says, control your circumstances or your circumstances w will control you. There's a bunch of wisdom in that And he makes this wonderful life out of his own circumstances, which aren't ideal, but it's a great reminder that we will adapt, you know, as we go. And I believe in humanity. I believe in people You know, if we're able to avoid some AI apocalypse that I have been reading about lately, then I I believe that human beings will figure this out and we will be able to forge a good future. Excellent book. And and we can talk to you about that AI apocalypse. So you're not worried about that one. Thank you. Thank you. Question number two, is there a question that you wish people asked you more often?

57:26 Yeah, I think the criticism that I get, it's always funny to me because it's um Like this is all we do. And my world is like Everyone's an expert out there. And I get it because I was you know, I'm a sports fan. And so sometimes I sit there watching a football game, like why'd the coach do that? I get it. But it's like I w I wish people would say

57:46 Why are you doing what you're doing instead of You know, what the hell are you doing?'Cause we've we've got lots of answers. Exactly. Where do you see progress or momentum? Outside of basketball.

58:00 That inspires you. I see a younger generation of leaders, the people uh who started March for Our Lives, the Parkland kids, when I see young leaders like that, it gives me hope. We have not left a a great society for our children, obviously. So when I see young people who are leading like Greta Thurnberg or the March for Our Lives group, I'm hugely inspired and I I believe that there's a lot a lot of good that will come in our future from those young leaders. Well, Steve. As one of those people who dutifully bought A Ker Popovich 2020 shirt back in the day. Uh, I just want to say, like you also have just inspired a generation of people that you can be literally working at the highest levels.

58:46 And with integrity, standing up for what you believe in. So, you know, we we appreciate it a hundred percent. Uh and our final question, because I think um amidst these challenging times, we do need optimism and hope and and we have to think that the future's gonna be better. Yeah. You know, can you leave us with your final thought on what you think is possible to achieve if everything breaks humanity's way in the next 15 years and and what's the first step to get there? Oh man, what a tough question. It's really quick. Just 30 seconds. Yeah. Um, you know, sh going back to Chris Brown and the idea and gun violence prevention is a great metaphor for lots of issues that we have. I think the majority of us are actually connected. We we really are. We all want the same thing. We want pr we safety. We want you know family, we want health. Um we want opportunity.

59:36 In my view, can we cut through this uh world of technology that is purposely dividing us along with the people who are doing so? I believe something will happen. Um, because in our nation's history, things have shifted all the time. We've had some really dark times. And um, this is a tough one, but I think things will shift and that will be revealed somehow over the next fifteen years. I certainly hope so. Steve, thank you so much for being here. Yeah, awesome. Thank you guys so much. Really enjoyed it. Possible is produced by Wonder Media Network. It's hosted by R Finger and me, Reed Hoffman. Our show runner is Sean Young.

1:00:18 Possible is produced by Katie Sanders, Edie Allard. Tanasi Delos. Sarah Schleed. Vanessa Handy. Aaliyah Yates.

1:00:26 Paloma Moreno Jimenez. Emulia Agudelo. Jenny Kaplan. is our executive producer and editor. Special thanks to Surya, Yalamanchili, Saida Sapieva, Ian Alice, Greg Viato.

1:00:38 Hart the Till and Ben Relis. And a big thanks to Khalid Robinson, Graham Cruz, Laura Marquez Jackson, Georgette D. Brown, and Jessica Gerber.

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