Hexclad: Danny Winer

0:06 We would literally Line up boxes in Cole's back yard. And we'd run down a line and I'd be like twelve inch pan, twelve inch pan, twelve inch pan. Hand packaging. Hand packaging them. To save money. And then we'd be like taping'em.

0:19 Closed and we had We had so many papercuts on our fingers. That's it. There were sometimes would be little blood spots on the on the box, and we would have to take windex and go back and clean the blood off the top of the box, and we would drive them to the Costco. To sell them.

0:40 Welcome to How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements. They built. I'm Guy Roz and on the show today, how Danny Weiner grew hexclad from a backyard business into a five hundred million dollar cookware company. In just under ten years. Anything you use to cook food, pots pans, Dutch ovens, they're part of a$73 billion global industry known as cookware.

1:17 Everyone has to cook, right? But surprisingly, at least in the US, there aren't that many brand that people know. Sure, you might recognize Alclad or Lodge or even Le Crusade, but for the most part, people tend to buy whatever's cheapest at Target or Walmart. And that's opened the doors to a bunch of new upstart brand over the past few years. One of these brands is called Hexclad. It was launched about a decade ago by two guys who previously worked as sales reps for another cookware company that's no longer in business. Danny Weiner, one of the founders, discovered the pans at a trade show in China back in 2015.

1:58 He was instantly intrigued by the pan's non stick features. And it's hexagon like pattern on the surface. Danny would end up teaming with the inventor in Korea, rebranding the product as Hexclad. and coming up with a whole new line of cookware with that same surface. In 2024, barely a decade after its founding,

2:21 HexClad sold over$500 million worth of its products. Now, when Danny first came across this technology, He and his co-founder, Cole McRae, were running low on cash. Their previous business, which was selling high-end home juicers, Was about to collapse. Danny went to that trade show in China as a kind of Hail Mary move.

2:44 Hoping for a miracle. Even more remarkable is that He never intended to become an entrepreneur. let alone an expert in cookware. Danny wanted to become an actor.

2:56 He grew up in Buffalo, New York, and studied film and theater at NYU. After graduating, he moved to Los Angeles, where he hit round after round of auditions. And cattle calls. I don't think I ever wanted to be А Брап лево ста.

3:13 I think what I wanted was just enough of it. That I could l I could like maybe go back to New York and call my shots in the theater. You know, and things like that and bounce back and forth and make a good living, but I didn't have to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars and you know be a Harrison Ford.

3:30 And you could've I mean, I'm looking at you, I mean I could see you in good fellas, or you know, you could be be you know, sort of a you could play an Italian guy or a Jewish guy or you know, you but like a New York kind of C character act type. Yeah, you know, listen, you you wonder why These things don't work out for you at a given time.

3:51 Yeah. You know, you I I I always wonder wonder, you know, does the universe give you success when you're ready to handle it? I don't know. Could it could I have gone down You know, the wrong path. If it'd been easy.

4:04 So you get to LA and what what did you do? Did you start to go on auditions? I started going on auditions. You know, it was so different than New York because I remember the first audition I went to. I showed up. You know, give my resume. My head shot.

4:20 And They line me up. And they were looking at my height. And then they go, Okay, thanks for coming in. And I'm like

4:28 Wait, uh But do I get to Read or act like No, I'm I'm the wrong height. And I'm like

4:36 How about a courtesy?'Cause like I might be wrong for this. But You know, I found out I uh I I think they they'd hired a the girl who was gonna be in it and she was like five one. So they kinda wanted a guy who was like five eight. Now I'm five eleven. Uh it was like it was a very disrespectful process at the time, I found. So this is a period of like three or th roughly three years where you're sort of going back and forth

4:59 In and out of auditions. And did you did you ever land? I mean you must have landed some things. You land that gets you going. And like I don't even have access to this, but a couple of like short films that never really got anywhere. Maybe they played in a festival, but it was a really good role. type of thing. And I can't even go into detail'cause I just barely remember them. But then I get like a couple commercials and and sometimes you have a line and sometimes you don't. And sometimes it's music and you're just on the beach and you're running around and you know, and you and a girl are running down the sand and you know, and that's the commercial. And Um you're like, Well, I guess it's acting in a way.

5:38 Do you remember feeling anxious at that time? just feeling a lot of anxiety about the future and about life? Um there is a little bit, but I think in a way you still I would say you know I'm now I'm like I'm probably about twenty-seven ish. I'm still dumb enough. To think like that. Well you know.

6:01 It's not me, it's them, and they're gonna see and people are gonna wanna hire me and But I think the what started creeping in was I don't like failing. I think it's and I was feeling beginning to feel like a failure. And the thing is when you fail, like look, uh you know

6:17 Uh e eventually at the end of the fourth quarter, right? They blow the whistle and the game's over. And there's no like, oh, I don't want to feel like fail well, you did fail. Today you failed. So so now you have to you know, dust yourself off and decide how do I win next time, whatever that looks like. Um And I think that feeling was beginning to creep into my m my mind that one I don't want to be seen as a failure. I don't like looking at myself in the mirror when I'm failing. Nobody nob nobody does. Yeah. Yeah.

6:49 I guess around nineteen ninety four. you you get in a car accident. Um a bad one. Yes, very much. And

7:00 you ended up w like having to go through rehab and like we walking with a cane. For like A long time, many months. Back brace. What what What happened, I mean

7:12 Um Were you just Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I mean what happened? Well,

7:18 You know This it's obviously one of these life changing moments. And Yeah. You know it was a

7:27 bad accent. I sh shattered my right leg, I broke vertebrae in my back. And I had to get better, but And I and obviously when you're young and broke. Now you're even

7:37 Broker, but you're not younger. So And r it during that period. I said Number one focus.

7:46 Is I have to make money. I don't know what that looks like. I'd never been so poor. You know, I I had this moment, in fact. This is one of the

7:56 a a pivotal moment in my life and I don't know if I've ever told it publicly. I've told a few friends, but I was on crutches still, so I'd had like pins taken out of my leg, but I had to walk with with crutches to s Because my legs weren't strong enough. And um

8:11 And we lived um My buddy and I had a house in Eagle Rock, California. And We lived kinda on the side of the hill. And

8:21 I had no money and I you know, at home I couldn't work yet, so I'd be until he came home from work, I'd be sitting in this house and you know, we didn't have cell phones then. I you know, I don't think we even even had a internet then. And The movie Braveheart came out. And I remember I had a free movie pass. to the Glendale movie theater.

8:42 So I'm Mike. I'm gonna go see this movie to cheer me up. And I I crutch down the hill. And I go to the bus stop.

8:50 You know, I have no car now. And I take the boss, I see Braveheart, you know, it inspires me, and I come back. And I see there on the side of the road This

9:01 This gentleman. Who's standing there were bags of oranges. And I'm like Look, this poor guy's gotta stand out here and I go how much of the bag of oranges? He's like, Two dollars.

9:12 I have two dollars left after the movie thing. So buy the bag of oranges and he puts them in like a plastic shopping bag and And Іно, ам кручing up the hill, and I get almost.

9:23 to the top of the hill and I'm exhausted. And The bottom of The garbage bag rips and all my oranges start tumbling out and they're rolling. All the way down the hill.

9:35 And I just I can't chase them. А мна фізикли абил. to chase them.

9:41 And I looked down the hill and I start to cry. And And yeah, and the thing is I'm not a I don't cry often and I start crying and I'm like, I can't believe I'm going through all this. And I had that moment of self pity.

9:57 And then somehow I saw myself like in the third person, you know, on the hill with these crutches with a torn plastic bag. And I just started laughing. And I'm like I I I I can't believe this is what I'm going through right now, but it was a pivotal moment. For me.

10:15 So Alright, so you You go through this sort of traumatic accident and you are unable to work and clearly You haven't really

10:24 Manage to get any kind of traction as an actor. And I guess around this time You had a friend. Who uh somebody you actually knew from NYU. Yes.

10:34 Who was uh he was like Selling cookware at trade shows. And I said, Hey, do you wanna Help me out.

10:45 Is that what happened around that time? Th that's exactly what happened. I hadn't worked yet. So I was I was just getting off my my cane. At that point. Yeah. But I had to work. I had n no money and he said, Listen You know, uh you wanna come to this convention center, we saw cookware, I'm a cookware. He goes

11:03 Yeah, he goes, I need you I need somebody to help run the credit cards and stuff. He goes, I'll give you five hundred bucks. And I'm like Five hundred bucks. Sweet. I'm there. And I went and helped him and it was hard because It w it's Ten hours on your feet and I'm like

11:18 I'm like I was in a lot of pain, you know. So um But You know, I saw him

11:25 Do well. And He's like I go if you need help again. Let me know and he goes, Well, I'm doing another one of these in I don't know, a week or two.

11:35 Do you want to help me? I'm like, Yeah. And I'm like, whenever you need the help because At that point, I'm like, oh, I do have my days free. I can still go to an audition if I get one, and I can work these Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays with him. And then I got good enough at it on my own. That

11:50 The company Offered me to do my own events and You know, and that's the first time where I go I don't want to do this.

12:02 But This makes sense because I can make money, I can make it quickly, I can don't have to completely kill my dream. Yet. But I can get a lot of bang for my bucket and I'm getting better and better at this.

12:15 So this was your okay, your friend, his fernybody, and what kind of cookware were they selling? Pans and pots and pans. Yep, pots pots and bands. And it was uh like a restaurant line of Uh a cookware. So you so you basically get

12:29 a job as a sort of a s a commission based sales rep for them. And and did they I mean did they put you through like sales training first before before you started to go out and pitch? So w essentially what wound up happening in my case was I'd worked for months with my friend.

12:47 Like once I started generating income for him as well, he's like, Hey, I'll pay you more because you're really valuable to me. I can go grab lunch. And I come back and you've made sales. So By the time I was offered This You know.

13:02 This spot. I was very good, like I was very trained. I knew the cooker space. So you're still and and so then you become A sales rep for this company. But but you still had one foot.

13:15 in entertainment, right? You still y you were still kind of going to And y j y you may be overly generous saying a foot, it may have been it may have been my big toe and in at that point But you know what? There was the point where you're kind of done.

13:38 And I remember I think I had a nine A. M. audition. And I the alarm went. And I looked. And I hit. snooze and I went back to sleep and I knew that day.

13:48 At that point I needed to do this. It was producing a very good income at this point. You saw this as something that Yeah, and I think you uh are

13:59 admitting this now in hindsight, but that at the time you kinda felt like that it was not really what you had planned to do with your life. N well no. And And look, the fact is Very few people.

14:13 are on that, you know. on the on the plan they set for themselves lying in a on their bunk bed when they were twelve years old. Yeah. So Yeah, you know. Identifying what I was good at and removing

14:27 ego. I mean I have a healthy ego like A lot of people do. Um And You know what was kind of interesting as I felt like oh

14:36 I'm not. Friggin' salesmen. But I was making a good living. And I had a a really good Brand another NYU. But he

14:45 Um Who was a lawyer and he was seeing me like work these weekends and then have the days off, and he's working his ass off. And here are you, you know, he's got law school loans, and he's like Listen, is there any chance I could get one of these cookware jobs? Buddy, you're a lawyer. You know? Yeah. It sucks being a lawyer.

15:04 Yeah, it's a grind. It's a grind. It's a grind. So this really is sort of now you're full on into this career and eventually you get promoted and and national sales manager, VP of sales. And and while you're there, you you need another I mean you you become friends with people and one of the one of them would would become critical in the future, which we'll get to, but this is a guy named Cole McRae. Mm-hmm. Tell me a little bit about Cole.

15:29 Cole is one of the most interesting guys I know. Because I met him right before I I went into the office. So at this point we're both salesmen when I meet him. And he just

15:43 You know, we have we have similar senses of humor, like we like dark humor. We like saying, you know, stuff that other people won't say. So we we kinda we became friendly, and then when I became his boss. You know, he quickly became The top salesman.

15:59 He was very, very good. And so he was like my my main guy but Coal is also He does not mince words about stuff. So now just hey I'm in the office a couple years now, and I think I just got

16:14 mm made VP of of Sal's. And he like he'll come in the office and I'm as He he w walks in, he sees me sitting there, he goes like this. Well, somebody's getting fat.

16:27 I'm like I'm not getting fat. You know, I mean maybe I put a few pounds, I'm at a desk for the first time. He goes, You're fat Five o'clock, you're coming to the gym with me. Okay. I'm like fine, I'll go to the gym with you. And then he and I started working out. Like if he wasn't off travelling for a for a show, we worked out, you know, four or five nights a week.

16:48 Which eventually is where The idea. during our workouts of starting our own company game. All right, we'll get there. But but for now, I mean, you and Cole are kinda killing it, right? In the in the mid nineties into the two thousands. Um you become VP of sales, he's your t top sales guy.

17:06 Um, but I guess I guess around uh two thousand nine, ten, right, b business starts to shrink. I mean it's it's the the financial crisis has happened. Um And I I guess around that time I read that you started to sort of look at e commerce, right, to help Try to boost sales. Uh and and that was e-commerce was pretty new, right? I mean e commerce was relatively new, it's just catching on. Um I mean I mean by that point was the company even even selling anything online?

17:34 Technically yes, but But not really. So At this point in our area. in say the kitchenware space.

17:43 your website and the ability to purchase online was looked at is just a tool to help you sell in person. You you don't buy cookware that way. You know, it's kinda like People weren't quite yet. They were just beginning to buy clothes. Online that way.

17:59 So did you ever go to to your boss, the owner of the company, and say, Hey, we should really we should get onto these like platforms or Facebook or we should really be Doing like You know, let's let's go build a Facebook community and you know, try to Try to see if we ca if that helps sales.

18:18 So that's Exactly what happened. I got excited one thing I'd noticed at this point. Was I'd read an article about the about decline in cookbook sales.

18:31 And um Which would t totally go the opposite way like a few years later,'cause then they'll just skyrocket. But yes, keep going. You know, why is this? Well I'm like well there's a ton of great recipes online. People now like say people

18:46 Love cookbooks again. You know, and um but at this point they're like, Oh, wait a minute, I don't have to spend thirty dollars to buy to to get all these recipes that I don't really like and the twenty that I do like. So they're starting to digest Content. Online.

19:03 And I became very aware of this, and I'm seeing The food network exploding and I'm like this is a big deal and we need to create a community here. And I went to the CO of the company. And I had Facebook up and I go I

19:18 I wanna tell you my idea. I go I don't have it completely fleshed out yet. But I go, this is where we need to be. I pointed at the screen. I'm like, we gotta create a community. And Then we own the experience with our customer and this is going to lead to sales.

19:33 And he he quite literally did Hand to the face to me. And he goes, Listen, kid, this Facebook thing. It's never gonna last. And that was the moment.

19:45 That was I walked out and I'm like I gotta start my own company. Yeah I mean, to be fair at that time. Right, two thousand ten, eleven. wasn't uncommon for somebody, especially somebody from you know s older to feel that way, that this is just a fad or this is just to post your books and your likes and your music you're listening to, your

20:07 Vacation pictures, right? Like I think that 'Cause this is around the time when like Cheryl Sandberg just joins the company. So Facebook is about to transform into a massive advertising platform.

20:19 But um But you feel like If They don't Change.

20:26 Um you might not have a job. Like the company might not might not survive. Exactly, because let's face it, you you we you know, people are terrified of change, right? Because the future is scary often. Іно, авіа то. Let's

20:41 pivot slightly and, you know, really embrace social media. But I but when I look at it very Analytically, I didn't see a downside. It doesn't not exist anymore, right? Yeah. It uh it they wound up fading out, but at that point

20:59 I was I was gone at that point. I think, you know, s they locked the doors around sometime around seventeen or so. All right. You and Cole had been talking about maybe doing something together one day. Like if you were to start a business

21:13 You're brainstorming ideas around things that you would use in the kitchen? Yes. Absolutely. And you and I guess you start to you start to look for what that product could be, right? You're still working for the the cookware company. But how, um

21:28 How did you start to go search for this next thing that you wanted to do? So as we we you know played around with what this could look like, you know, it started at the gym, we we talk about ideas. Now that he'd got me back working out, we were both very, very health conscious at this point. We we get Both become big. Juicing fans.

21:49 uh you know green juice and you know it was like becoming huge at that point We were reading about like New advances in making coal pressed juice. At home. with a couple of Korean companies, but they hadn't really like the big juicer was like the Jack Lane juicer at the time. Right. And that's and and just for people who like

22:11 d we that's a juice where you put the carrot in and it grinds it up and it basically is heating the the the the fruits or vegetables and so You lose some of the vitamin content. But cold press. just slowly co presses it down, and then th the the the thinking is a juice retains the vitamin content because it's not heated, but but generally you can't do that at home. You have to buy like you could buy cold pressed juices. And you're and you you were you were starting to see that there were Home versions of this being created? Yes. So so we were doing our research and we thought um

22:43 This the health benefits are huge, like we had seen Like Vitamix. Like But

22:51 Quite frankly, still like smoothies are not as good as vegetable juice. You were looking for something cool to sell. Yes. And if and eventually you found A juicer. We did.

23:03 And we thought we'd found the holy grail because what was interesting, it was a cold press juicer. It had been invented in Korea, and what was was great about it. was it only had one part to claim. You've popped out the center. Like it was like a giant screw.

23:18 And you just washed it all off. So it was like Wow, this is easy to clean. This is the holy grail. So we you know, we were very excited. About Bringing that to market. And how much how much were these gonna retail for? These were gonna retail for about four hundred

23:34 US dollars. Got it. Okay, so you have this idea, you go back And you and Cole agree that this is what you're gonna Do Mm-hmm. And so

23:44 I'm assuming you Both. at this point leave leave the company. To start your own company. So

23:51 By the time I think I left It took all of thirteen and to fourteen till we were ready. So Once the product was ready to be sold, that's right about when I left the company. Yeah, in terms of negotiating it.

24:05 Yeah, I mean you had to make a deal, presumably, where you would be the exclusive distributor in the United States. Exactly. And how much I mean, did you have to have a lot of money up front to make this happen? I mean Because uh obviously you were making a good salary, coal was probably making a good salary, but y I mean, I can't imagine you had millions and millions of dollars to put down. Mm. No for this

24:28 Well, there were a couple things. One, there was a level of ignorance. On our part. About exactly everything we would need. But Our goal at the time

24:36 was To really do this. Slowly And Judiciously.

24:43 So You know spending the money um carefully and we'd be able to self fund at that point.

24:54 And then kind of reinvest the profits. So it was pretty much ready to sell. Which which was great. And and what what was it brand what wasn't it called? It's called Jespresso.

25:06 Juice press, okay, like and and Um, and so the idea was you were gonna sell these I mean you had this idea of direct to consumer, right? Or or and was that what you were gonna do here? Well it was because we also felt that direct to consumer Tied in quite nicely with demonstration sales.

25:26 Because in a way. I can deliver this little demo to one of two ways. I can deliver it to you in person. Or I can deliver it to you in thirty to sixty seconds with a video with a video on Facebook. And If it's good enough, you'll watch the whole video on Facebook. And that was your strategy. Let's just go in on Facebook.

25:46 With videos? Yes. And it's also like, you know, w um very quickly We thought also, this is great. Soon as you're on there, we want you to start sharing your recipes. We want you to start sharing your videos. Now the thing is. You know Y hop you get the participation quickly. Because we don't have money.

26:06 There were no paid influencers at this point, either. Right. Well did you guys see the juicer as sort of the first product that would become part of a larger Constellation of products? Yes. I never thought we were gonna sell a hundred million dollars worth of juicers. But I thought, you know, if we could get a suite of products that are complimentary in in the kitchen space. Maybe we have five, six. Seven of them and

26:31 You know, my goal was can we can we get each one to generate about ten million in revenue. And if we can, we got a business. Yeah, sure. Where were you selling them, by the way, mainly online? So at that point we were selling some online. Some at trade shows we try to find like kind of health and wellness and uh gourmet shows. Um ones that kinda lend themselves to a higher price point.

26:52 And we had started selling them with Costco in their Road Show program as well. What we were never expecting was in 15 that Whole Foods makes an announcement that we're putting a juice bar in every Whole Foods, fresh squeeze, cold pressed juice. That you know, all of a sudden creation and John But they're gonna even make Real juice, not just delicious sugar. You know, Jews. holding hope that people aren't gonna pay 10 bucks for a juice.

27:25 And This was said it before. Never underestimate the laziness of the American public because we want it now, we want it easy. And there's a

27:37 In LA called the Beverly Hills Juice Club, and I think that's the one I was in, where I saw a girl Order a juice. And she didn't have enough money on her credit card to put it all on one card, I think. And I'm like, wait a minute.

27:52 That was quite an aha moment. She doesn't have eight dollars or seven dollars. but she won't make it at home. So you see I mean you have this amazing year in twenty fifteen. But it's not you start to feel like this is not gonna be representative. This is just a blip. You know, again, we were starting to see like the first half.

28:14 of fifteen was going well. Ви приврастли оптимістик. Тен ми ресін. A little bit of a plateau. And this is as we're seeing more and more juice shops pop up. I'm like Grudgingly be coming to grips with the fact that

28:31 This may not have legs. I wanna point something out here, which I think is really cool. Mm. important which is You you

28:40 Sh left your safe job. As you were getting close to fifty. I mean you were you had a very good career, a good salary But you really started This business when you were like forty nine.

28:54 And a lot of people think, Oh God, that's late. I mean in fact Uh it's not. Um but the other thing is that And I've p said this in the show

29:03 A lot of evidence to show that um late So Entrepreneurs who are older, not late, but older, have a much higher rate of success because they come to the table with a lot of experience. But it is

29:17 scary because the stakes are somewhat higher. Like if you fail At forty nine or fifty, it's just harder to recover than if you're twenty five. You know, I'm so glad you brought that up. 'Cause it really. It's very important because the fact is

29:33 Um, there's something about this country that is both amazing and challenging, which is We love An underdog story. We love

29:44 A rags to riches story. But also there is this level in In our country, where we want to knock people down when they hit a level of success. We celebrate the twenty five year olds who fail, we pity the fifty year olds who fail. Yeah.

29:58 Were you Were you nervous about about doing that? In your fifties, and your late forties? I mean, was it any part of you like, God, this is I'm nervous. It's scary. There's a level of terror to it.

30:10 Luckily. I think um Very often ignorance is bliss, right? So What you don't know, you know, can't really hurt you, so to speak. So there were certain areas.

30:22 Where I've said it a couple of times, I was naive, especially starting with Juice Presso. And maybe this overconfidence that because I was a good salesman and I really believed in the product. I could Convince you that This was in your best interest to buy this.

30:40 And we saw that business drop. Month by month by month. And the thing is This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life, and it was one of the smartest things. Because I had a look.

30:52 I don't look very closely at this. And go. This business is not salvageable. And my ego wanted to fix it.

31:01 But the thing is Sometimes you gotta pull the plug, right? And sometimes you need somebody else to tell you that. Um It's very hard looking in the mirror.

31:10 Sometimes, you know, very often we're looking all over the place for the reason why we're not doing well, and then we skip the mirror. In this place I played a role, but I misjudge the market. That's what I did wrong. I don't think the way I I I brought the product to market, the way we tried to sell it, I think we did the right thing there. I misjudge the market and shame on me.

31:31 You know. And we were in the juicer business. Like on a Tuesday night at five PM. And the next morning At nine a, we were not in the juicer business anymore.

31:44 When we come back in just a moment. How trying to avoid Chinese premier Xi Jinping led Danny to start Hexclad. Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Hey, welcome back to how I built this. I'm Guy Raz. So it's 2015, and even though Juice Presso made about$5 million, Danny and Cole know the business doesn't have legs. So they amp up their search for new products, and Danny even heads overseas to check out some Asian trade shows. And there, in the basement, at the Canton Fair Danny finds it.

32:34 A new non stick technology he believes he can turn into a cookware success. Thanks in part to one very important man. I think one time somebody asked me, Well who do you owe it all to? And I go on a way, I owe it to Xi Jinping. Because he he showed up At the Canton Fair this day.

32:53 to cut like the opening day ribbon or something. And I'd been at the preview day the night before and I met somebody, I don't even remember what it was, he had some interesting product and I said, Okay, I'm gonna meet you tomorrow at noon. And I go to show up to walk into this hall and there's just thirty Chinese soldiers there. And they've got their guns.

33:16 And they're and apparently I'm being directed. I got it. Go down three flights of steps into the basement, walk all the way and come back up on the other end. And I'm like, I'm looking at my watch and I'm like, Damn Xi Jinping, you're making me late to my meeting. So I head down into this basement area, and I think for anybody who's ever been to a trade show like this.

33:37 Those selling. Every last bit of real estate they can get somebody to set up a booth and And I'm walking down there and this is another one of the moments in my life where I'm like I'm not on my phone.

33:50 I'm not looking right, I'm looking left. And I look and I see this round. Plate. S steel played. With hexagons all over it.

34:00 I know. Hm. That's interesting. So I walk over. And immediately, you know, they they most of these booths they hire like young college students'cause they can speak some English.

34:11 And this girl comes up, she goes, Oh, do you like that? That you know She's like, Yes, we invented that. That's the line everybody says. It could be 10 booths selling the same tea kettle, and they'll all be like, Oh, we invented this. We invented, you know, they're all claiming ownership. And I'm like, Okay, sure you did. I go, This is interesting. Have you ever made a frying pan with it?

34:31 And they go, Oh yeah, we're experimenting with them right now. And I go inside their booth and they show me One pan and I'm like, Well This would never sell in America.

34:42 And A gentleman walks up and he spoke English, so we started talking to us yes, we're really developing You know, the frying pans and that. And I go, Oh, I used to be in the cookware business.

34:54 And And he goes, Oh, we're like, Well, well, so where do you sell in the US? And I started saying, Well, you know, we've sold all over. And then I get to and I've also done a good amount of business with Costco. Mm. And his ey up. He's like Costco. Oh, we would love to do business with Costco. So I kinda jumped on that and I'm like Well, you know.

35:13 I know them very well and But I go, I think I've seen this. Techni I've yeah I lied. I'm like, I've seen this all over the Canton Fair. He goes No, no, this is ours. I go No, come on, tell me the truth. And he goes and gets a book.

35:27 And in the book he's just got page after page of global patents. And I'm like Did I actually run into The real deal, like the guy who actually did invent this and has the patents to prove it. Because I've never seen anybody pull out a book with patents before.

35:45 Yeah, and you and oftentimes you go to these trade shows and there's like forty of the same But this was he he's basically saying, No, no, I'm the inventor. This is our product. Can you Can you explain what it was about it that that appealed to you right away? I mean it's it's a non-stick pan with these like hexagon shapes on the you know, l on the lining of the pan. Why did it why was that intriguing to you? Why was that interesting to you?

36:12 For a couple a couple of reasons. So to say Essentially what they do is they laser etch these hexagons. So the non stick is sitting in the removed portion of metal, so it's it sits slightly recessed. So One of the biggest problems with non stick pans with people, you scratch them with a metal spatula and then they wind up peeling and flaking and they get they get into your food and they last three months. Yeah, exactly. And also

36:40 They don't They don't sear very well. Um You know, you you essentially to get a good sear on a stainless uh on a non stick pan, you have to overheat the pan. And you will destroy the pan to get a sear. So I'm like, wait a minute, you got this steel But you can get a sear at a lower medium heat.

36:58 I'd been selling cookware for fifteen years at that point. I'm like People complained about Not getting a good sear. They complained about They're they're non stick peeling. And then they're like oh by the way

37:11 Because of the design it's also oven safe. to at least five hundred degrees. So uh just to be clear, I mean Most non stick pans. R and were aluminum.

37:25 Pants. There were some. I mean I think ScanPan was doing steel and and a couple other. But for the most part It was aluminum with a a c coating of you know, that Teflon style coating. Right. Which still you can still get them versions of that. And this was different because it was ste it was steel, which I um and which um conducts heat better. Well, aluminum does too, but but steel is um Preferred by like

37:53 Serious cooks. And then Uh and it had this non stick element, but it was different. It wasn't like Teflon. It was Etched hexagons.

38:03 Yes. That that covered the whole surface of the pan. Yes. So you come across this brand what's the guy's name by the way? Uh his name was m is Mr. Lee.

38:14 Okay, so you start to talk to him and at that point. Trade show at that point. I can't imagine you're thinking I want to sell these, or were you? Or are you thinking, I gotta, I gotta lock this up?

38:26 I knew they had something special. It was not ready for the Western market. But I was excited about it. So you know, when I went back to my hotel room, I was alone.

38:37 And I called coal. You know and I'm like This might be a winner. You know, we talked about it, and then essentially I went back the next day, we talked more. They're they're like look.

38:49 We're gonna make some new samples. A little bit deeper. 'Cause they they were too shallow. And um And I go, Great, I go, I'll help you. I know I know what'll sell in America. So that was in the spring of fifteen.

39:04 I wound up spending Almost I'd say until around August one of sixteen. So we we probably spent sixteen months working on the pans together.

39:16 Okay, a c I one a bunch of questions. So so basically Once again, like with the Juice Presso, you've gotta come up with a deal. Where you are gonna be the exclusive distributor of this product, presumably for a country or territory, maybe more Um but this was different because it wasn't just

39:36 that you were gonna distribute his products, you were actually you want him to design to use his technology to design cookware, to design pans. Pots, other things. That you wanted to help him Build because you had experience in that. How does that work? Well, I would say he was already

39:54 working on cookware. He was thinking of the needs of the Korean market, which are slightly different than the needs of, say, the US market. So I was giving him feedback of what I would need. To make that product successful.

40:10 in the US. And Really, this in the beginning was a handshake agreement. You know, there was a lot of faith on both parts. And I know this І стрій.

40:22 But we We trusted each other. Like when I still see him, I'll fly over once a year at least to see the factory, and he and I just look at each other and we kinda laugh and hug because we there was a lot of trust in it. He's like, I'm not gonna sell to anybody else in America. And you're gonna trust that

40:40 I'm gonna make the product. Great. And not cut you out. And For that first year.

40:49 We both openly said we're taking chances on each other, because they were very small. He just had this great idea. And he had a factory to produce it. And I told him my my plan and I said You know, I want to be a direct consumer cookware brand. I go, I wanna sell online because I wanna control the story. And by the way

41:09 This unique design needs its story told. How many people did you have working for you? Was it just you and Cole? At that point we we were so bootstrapped. We were me and Cole and our assistant if as full time employees in the office. Bookkeeping. Stuff for us. We you know, used outsize outside bookkeeping. we had at that time'cause we were still growing the road show at Costco, so maybe we only had about fifteen

41:45 Employees there. But they were all on contract. Yes. How did you pay for the initial orders of I mean by this point the The the the pans

41:56 And the pots are starting to be. H where where did you have the cash? So we'd gotten to the point that we were kind of we were breaking even on the juicer, so

42:10 maybe a tiny bit of profit there in like say b May May ish. June. We placed our first cookware order. At the end of July, we'd kinda had it. Perfect. We made the cookware.

42:23 We could only afford one twenty foot container at the point, because we cole and I had to come up the m money out of You know, our pockets. And we found a way w it was even It was cheaper for us to send the cookware over Unboxed.

42:39 So we could fit more In a container. And then box it and Cole's back yard.

42:45 Roughly how much money did that cost you? That first order wasn't that much'cause it was a small container. I think it was around seventy five thousand. Dollars. Worth a product. And then once you sort of package it and sell it, probably would sell for

42:58 At least twice that. Yeah, m probab like three. Three times that. And by the way, did you have a name for it yet? I mean they had a name for what they came up with, but you were gonna brand it as something different, right? So yeah, yeah. We had to make the boxes. And Cole and I was nine thirty at night and we had a trademark something the next day, nine AM. And we're like, Cole's like What about HexCloud? I'm like, nah, I don't

43:21 I don't know. I don't like it. Hexagon and clad. Like you think of like there's all clad, there's other cookware that's clad, yeah. Clad. Yeah. So Cole's like coming and I'm like we can think of something better. And then finally, like an hour later, he's like Dude. Come on. We gotta call.

43:37 All right. Hexclad. And and people have always like, We love your name, you you know, your your branding company that came up with it. Uh they did great. Nah, Cole just came up with it at nine thirty and And then we just we had to go start making the boxes the next day, and uh and in fact And we've gotten compliments on our logo.

43:58 The Hex Glad logo. We had no money to hire an artist or a company to design it, so I found a website. That does these contests between artists all over the world.

44:08 Yeah. So I put it up there like two hundred and ninety nine bucks to make the Hexclad logo. All right, so you've got a logo, you've got this initial order, but if you if you want to go big, you you need some serious money behind this to to to to generate, you know to basically get some inventory produced. Um And so did you I am I have to imagine you thought, Well, let's go out and raise money. I mean this is two thousand sixteen

44:33 I mean, this is the height of the I mean, there's a lot of money going to to D T C companies at that point. This this was the start of it. So I went out trying to raise money. And Mostly in LA or New York or both. Most mostly in LA. Oh and up north.

44:48 And um I may have had one meeting in in New York. And I got this. Um

44:55 There were a couple of things. Like one They didn't get the pan. And I'm like, am I not? explaining this technology properly. But

45:05 They were like, Okay, it's different. I go, Yeah, I go, This is A a a new advance in a tired old business that hasn't known any innovation. Since Teflon came out essentially. It's and it's scratch proof. It's non stick. Scratch proof. I want to say scratch resistant. If you dig in there with a knife, you can scratch you you can scratch it. But if you're cooking normally, you grab a metal spatula, metal spoons, whisk. It's fine.

45:30 And these they're like, Okay, that's good, but um And they go, Okay, well listen. Forget let's just say everybody loves your idea. How are you gonna get shelf space? And I went

45:41 Uh-huh. I don't want shelf space. They're like why? Yeah, I go, I don't need all clad shelf space at Bed bath and beyond. They're like h well how that

45:51 I go, we're gonna be the first. direct to consumer cookware brand. We are gonna mar take out the middleman, we're gonna market to our customers and start a journey with them. And people were like, You cannot sell cookware that way. People don't buy their cookware that way.

46:10 You know, they looked at me like I was out of my mind. So There wasn't a single investor you met with that was interested in a few people mildly interested, but Not really. And

46:22 Look. I didn't completely blame them. Part of me was like You know, I'm like, I need to maybe do a better job of telling this story. But really what it is was consistently people were like, Nobody's gonna buy cookware this way. And it was and it was these were hard no's. They weren't like let's go to committee.

46:43 They were like hard nose. And so During during sixteen And seventeen. You know, we

46:53 I cashed out. My four oh one K that I'd had, I my we're talking my Roth my I took all the money out, paid penalties, I everything I'd had saved up. I had ninety percent of my Life savings.

47:07 the by the time we hit tied up in the company. We we applied for credit cards and we were paying one credit card with another credit card. We may have even exaggerated a couple of things to get Another credit card. Mm. How much money did did the p two of you have to put in?

47:23 I would say we were probably Flooring with like around Between the two of us like eight hundred grand, nine hundred grand that we had in That's scary. I mean you're'cause at this point, you know, you

47:37 Being fifty, saving that um money. You know, you're you're already thinking, Okay, in fifteen years I'm a retire I've got uh So to take ha four or five hundred thousand dollars of your whole life savings out.

47:51 Pay the penalties. to put into this thing and then If you're wiped out. That's not gonna be good. Yeah, I'm probably gonna be turning bar again.

48:02 Or you know, or sell you sell it. Yeah. I'll tell you guys, it was that was terrifying. And this is the part where I you know I want to encourage entrepreneurs. But I would wake up

48:16 panicked at four AM. And sixteen. And seventeen. Because We now we're all in.

48:24 You know, still with the juicer, we'd started, you know, breaking even at least. We're not feeding the machine. Yeah. And um I still have money in the bank, but now this took more money to develop, and we were very good at stretching a dollar. But it was It was frightening.

48:42 Why were you so confident in this product? I mean I mean uh it's it's a kind of a rhetorical question, but Ha you you went to all these VCs And they looked at it and and what they're looking for is innovation. Right. Like an AI wired, you know, like a uh uh internet connected pan or something That is very different. To most of them they they just saw a pan.

49:05 that was not was a slight variation on Teflon to them, right? You're saying, No, no, this is totally different. It's rev but why why did you Even after hearing all that pushback Why did you think that this was so special?

49:19 Well, you know, Cole and I had spent a good chunk of our Adult life. Selling cookware. Yeah. We know that people buy it, people cook. People are cooking more.

49:30 You know, I I think I I'd mentioned now I'm also being Validated. Buy The explosion of Instagram shafs. Of food content.

49:42 producers, you know, and I got questioned by my boss and by other people. Now I've been proven right on this. And I was confident, and I knew this. I knew that I could sell the this was a great product. So we launched our website in November of of sixteen.

49:59 And I still have the email. We sold a ten inch pan. Why this person bought it, we started, you know, running Facebook ads and I wanted to understand what people were reacting to. So as we hit that end.

50:13 of sixteen and Beginning of seventy I think I even booked a Trage a Gourmet show. Mm-hmm.

50:21 And I went there. With Hex clad. Nobody knew it. Yeah.

50:26 And And I remember it was Like all day Friday. I didn't sell anything. And I'm like

50:33 I'm worried. And I had one of my one of my best friends came with me at the time. He's like, I'll help you out, we'll do it. You know, he was a good salesman. And And we hadn't sold anything. And it was one o'clock on Saturday, I'm like Oh God, maybe I am wrong.

50:49 Well then one o'clock I finally Connected with somebody. I'm gonna get it. Okay, I'll take it. And then I kept

51:00 Demoing. I'm like one after another. And all of a sudden cut to three hours of me not tal like n just talking nonstop. And we sold. eighteen of our frying pan sets.

51:12 And also I was realising what was resonating with people and what wasn't. I found I was not only just promoting the benefits, but I was apologizing for

51:29 The things that weren't as good about it. Like for example If you take a Teflon pan out of a box, the Teflon pan We'll clean up easier. Now

51:42 Our pan's gonna clean up much better than an aluminum or a stainless steel pan. But it's only gonna clean up about 85% as well as the Teflon Pam, but the the benefit is You don't have to worry about metal and all those other things. And once I honed in on all that stuff. then we started connecting and people started buying. So what what about

52:01 Y I mean,'cause it was supposed to be direct to consumer. Wheeler Facebook ads it doesn't sound like the Facebook ads were really moving product. Well we had no money, first of all. So we were only we could have sp we were spending like a thousand bucks a month at the in and sixteen But also what this gave us an opportunity to do, as we s did a couple of these shows.

52:23 I was able to take my learnings. And then tweak the Facebook ads a little bit. Right. And then w what happened was I decided to take a chance to reach out to my Costco. Connection.

52:36 Alright, so you decide I mean you had this in, a Costco with a juice pressso. Yes. And you and Cole say, Let's Let's try this again. Let's try to bring these pans to Costco. So I think about a year after you get your first shiping in. you get a chance to do an in store demo in Costco's November of twenty seventeen. Is it is it in one Costco? Or is it gonna be in in multiple Cuscas?

52:57 What they do is they give you one test store with a couple of back up test stores. I mean they they they have the option that if it's completely disastrous. They could pull the plug, I guess. But I think usually they're gonna give you a few stores. And so where where did you Did you go yourself to demonstrate it?

53:13 I went there. I I I relied on one of my old reps from my old company. Who had needed was looking for a new opportunity and we've been talking and he really liked the product. He's like, I'll do it for you. Well.

53:27 So so really If you get into Costco, it's not a guarantee that you're gonna succeed. Like like there are products that that did try Costco and don't exist anymore. Oh yeah. Like it can because their margins are very slim they you know, they they require I mean, they demand a very low price.

53:46 Yep. And you gotta move product in order to make money there. Yes, um You know It it's scary, but

53:53 I also knew I w I went back to me standing at the Saint Louis. food and whatever gourmet show when we'd done it months earlier. And I just saw like I knew what people did in demonstration with this. Like they it resonated. They liked it. What kind of food did you make? Just omelets or Like oh,'cause they want to see an egg.

54:12 cook and I think we did cheese, you know, and we then we make a quesadilla for them. Some sticky stuff. And And then talk about the deal and show about the value props. Like, you know, and you make some dumb jokes like Ladies, this is husbandproof cookware. You can use the metal spatula or whatever it might. But when we got that opportunity. Fountain Valley, I remember

54:34 We sold In the neighborhood of five thousand dollars worth of product that first day. And is that I mean that sounds like a lot to me. Is that a lot? Sure. Yeah, that's that's a lot. I guess if you're doing twenty grand a month.

54:46 Doing five grand in a day is pretty awesome. And and in the road shows your schedule their ten day events. So I think when we finished we were flirting with Around forty thousand US dollars in that ten day period. And what was the goal? What did you what was the metric that you had to hit in order to prove it out?

55:07 I'm guessing we we more than three x'd what they were hoping for. Wow. All right. So so you prove this out. And now you are going and and what does that mean? Does that mean they they come back to you and say, Okay, well let's go national? Well, uh immediately they're like great numbers. And we already had store two and three scheduled, so that means those are gonna go through. In the couple days between the starting of st stores two and three.

55:32 They offer us. Two or three more stores. And we're like, Yeah, let's do'em. Well Now store two goes equally as well, and we're like w we cannot afford to have inventory sitting around.

55:44 So now we're we're running into inventory problems. And we were still at this point, like having product come in. Unpackaged. Because we couldn't afford

55:55 So we would literally Line up boxes in Cole's back yard. And we'd run down a line and I'd be like twelve inch pan, twelve inch pan, twelve inch pan, ten inch pan, ten inch pan. Hand packaging. Hand packaging them. To save money. And then we'd be like taping'em

56:10 Closed and we had We had so many paper cuts on our fingers. That there were sometimes would be little blood spots on the on the box, and we would have to take windex and go back and clean the blood off the top of the box, and we would drive them to the Costco to sell to sell them. Oh. Yeah, it was it was it was scary and exhilarating at the same time.

56:33 When we come back in just a moment, how Danny and Cole turned this backyard business into a$500 million company. In under ten years. Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to how I built this. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So 2017 to 2018 is a pivotal time for Danny and Cole.

57:07 Costco puts Hexclad into more and more stores and sales grow, and The guys figure out how to make ads work for them on Facebook and really connect with customers. So есенці возappening in in the first half of eight. was we were I would say putting

57:27 almost a hundred percent of the money back into the company. There was no taking salaries, there was no You know, there was none of that. I remember like finally the first time Cole and I took A paycheck.

57:40 And July of eighteen. And we were e we were each able to take uh I think Ten thousand dollars. And that was like

57:51 We were like Ten thousand bucks. We made it. So all right, so twenty nineteen, the direct to consumer side of the business really takes off. And

58:04 And do you remember roughly what you got? I mean, ten ten million in sales in twenty eighteen. Mm-hmm. Do you remember what you guys did in twenty nineteen? Uh we almost doubled that. So we were we were up in the eighteen, nineteen range and Yeah.

58:19 And by the way and profitable. And profitable. So really We were profitable by the middle of eighteen. But you had to be s you still had to be somewhat nervous because you had seen with the juice press Awesome sales.

58:33 And then the whole thing just fall apart. Yes. I mean th you're always gonna be a little nervous, and I guess if you're not nervous, you're you know, not doing your job properly, right? You should always be concerned. Because of course then you hit twenty twenty.

58:48 which is the Covid year. Um and U now all of a sudden all eyes turn to really to to computers and phones. Everyone stuck inside. And a lot of direct to consumer businesses, Peloton and others. Just

59:03 Went crazy. And did it also have that same effect on on sales for you guys? Were people just ordering cookware because they were stuck at home now? Well well there were a couple of things and what was Interesting about that was As

59:19 As we're selling right along with the production capacity of our factory. Um Costco Shut down the Costco Road Show. Right, because of the pandemic. In March they became groceries only.

59:34 And if it wasn't groceries, they weren't selling it. So now we had all this additional product. That we'd paid for. So Essentially now you were expecting to sell X, not

59:47 X plus Y. But Cole and I You know, now we're heading into April one. We're like We don't know quite yet that people how long they're gonna be locked up.

59:59 and how long they're gonna be shopping. We're still doing pretty well online. This is before nobody no one was talking about a payroll protection plan yet. This was just a little bit more. That was a couple months away.

1:00:10 And then we also went Well, we got all this cookware. How much money do we have in the bank? And I remember we had a million bucks. And we just looked at each other and we're like, Let's blow the whole million on advertising on meta. And we spent a millian bucks.

1:00:25 In April. And I think w I think in February we had We were doing a million a month online. And we sold five million dollars in April. Online.

1:00:35 Wow. And we're like, Wow. So we go, Ah, we I we'll probably be able to start taking a salary again. I guess that summer, summer of twenty twenty. somebody on your team because I I I'cause you'd staffed up and you had to staff up, right? And You had somebody who noticed that Gordon Ramsey had been following you guys on Instagram. Yes.

1:00:58 And So obviously you reach out to most probably the most famous chef on the planet. Well to I guess initially to to to give him pans, right? Yeah. So send him like some some gifts. Yeah, it's been such a strange journey and I even that that's like one of them uh

1:01:16 Іно, амі, Гордський і бійше в плане, They know him everywhere and We when to see that he was following us on Instagram was like Wow, and I you know, what I learned later was somebody gifted him a pan, I think during the pandemic, and he he was home like everybody else. He's cooking every day for his kids and

1:01:36 Um So we did reach out. And we're like Can we send you some more pans? And whoever answered on his team said. Sure.

1:01:44 And then we also just said You know, Gordon involved with the cookware company. And they were like, I don't think so. Um

1:01:54 And that led to we're like, well, we'd love to talk. And I don't know, a few days later. I was on uh A call with Gordon's business manager.

1:02:04 And You know, we're discussing, you know, what could this look like. I mean Bit surreal. And in initially they were thinking, okay, maybe a commercial, right? That you wanted him to do a commercial. He threw out the options. He's like, you know, Gordon, like if he likes your product

1:02:18 You know You do a commercial. It's expensive. But he also Probably like a million bucks. I would guess at least you know.

1:02:25 Yeah. Um he never gave me an exact number. But I knew it was a lot, and then you know And it's short term. Unless you

1:02:34 Keep buying it. But then he said, but Gordon likes your product. You know He he Gordon's by the way a very, very shrewd businessman. And um He's like he likes your product and I think he'd love to participate.

1:02:47 And I'm like, Well Let's see what that Looks like And and the idea would be, hey, maybe he actually becomes a an owner, part owner. Yeah, that's what we were that's what we were looking at. I mean, really we wanted to say like w were we a good fit. What are our goals?

1:03:03 How do they Fit. Ethically together. In a way. Like that's one thing I think that's

1:03:10 that Gordon and I have in common. Like we're We're both very hard working. We We don't want to half ass anything. Like

1:03:19 My product. Is a great product. It's well made. It performs well. And I won't sell something.

1:03:28 That way, and Gordon's the same way. And we kind of saw that in each other. And Gordon's very enthusiastic and he's got great ideas like ways you can market stuff. And so we got on this call and I was intimidating. You know, I just go on the screen, it's like we're on right now, but uh there's the the biggest chef in the world on the other side. And we start talking and I I I had twenty minutes scheduled for the call. And Gordon and I talk for an hour and twenty minutes. And we just talked about everything we could do, and and I think when we got off the call, everybody involved was like yeah, this makes sense.

1:03:58 You know Then you just had to get it get the lawyers to what it actually would mean. And and so you of course, we know you I mean, people who know Hexclides know you made a uh you came to an agreement with him and And what did that mean? I mean it meant that he would post on social media, um, you would You would film videos of him using it. What was it going to mean to have him as a brand ambassador and an equity holder? You know

1:04:24 We'd put faith in Our relationship with Mr. Lee early on. With your hopes that there's a follow through with everything. Yes, there there's a contract that has X, Y, and Z deliverables. If g if that was the way we approach this relationship, I would say I don't even know if we would still

1:04:45 Have a relationship with Gordon. Because it's been Like of A very fluid type of relationship. Like yes, w we're gonna uh do a certain amount of content every year.

1:04:56 And Gordon's gonna collab on some posts with us and You know And he's like, I want to use the cookware in a lot of my restaurants. And That was all good, but what he didn't need to do, and it's not in any contract, was

1:05:10 I'm gonna put it on all my T V shows. So You know, we started doing that and like They called me and he's like, You know I know we've been talking about doing something in Canada, he goes, I'm gonna be in Vancouver.

1:05:22 at at the end of February. Why don't we do an event? He didn't have to just offer that. It's like he he does stuff like he's always thinking like Yeah. Like what can we do?

1:05:32 to take this to the next level and the next level and the next level. Yeah, I mean it he is a very good I mean he's pr he's probably easily the best The best sort of co food entrepreneur on the planet. I mean

1:05:45 Um I mean he's a great chef. He's got a Michelin three star restaurant and but he's also a personality that's managed to become So much bigger than than his restaurants and

1:05:57 You know, I I imagine that I mean having him again You know, it it r actually reminds me a lot of a story we did on the show uh a year or two ago about on shoes. Um a brand that was founded by, you know, three Swiss guys, not very well known. They scaled it. on their own. They they turned it into a real powerhouse and then

1:06:17 Roger Federer became really interested in in doing something with him. He's Swiss, they were Swiss. And it you know, and and Roger Federer's involvement. Help take on to the next level. You know, all of a sudden it wasn't just a really popular shoe brand, it's like now one of the the most popular running brands on the planet, and it was started in twenty twelve. So

1:06:37 There's a lot of parallels there, right? Like You guys got it to a pretty great point. Yeah. But then Gordon Ramsey is interested. And he can help you really supercharge. I think we would have continued to scale and he'll sometimes, you know, poke fun with me when we talk, it'd be like oh, you know.

1:06:56 Thank God you got me and you know, and I'll joke. I'm like thank God you got me too and And we're and we're a good team, but yes, like look, Gordon Yeah. Courty. Brings you eyeballs. And that's what this business is about, right? You want eyeballs.

1:07:11 Because if you have a good product And you get The consumer's attention. When they're ready to purchase, they're gonna consider you. So Gordon gets a lot of people to consider our product.

1:07:23 Maybe that's didn't know about us. I mean in that first full year that he was a partner I read that your revenue is a hundred and seventy million dollars. And there's no question that that was a huge help. Absolutely.

1:07:36 Absolutely. You know was huge. We ad we scale that year, maybe we do get it. We do a hundred percent again and we go to Around a hundred. I you know, y it's always hard to guess, but I know this. When you get somebody like Gordon

1:07:52 Who's passionate. You know, it's you add that all together is just a recipe for for growth. Yeah, no question about it. Yeah. But I mean this is now expanded into like if you go to the Hexclad website, you know, his signature's on there, and it's not just pans and pots. I mean, it's like

1:08:11 You guys are doing knives and you're doing cutting boards and aprons and other tools. I mean, there is like a this is like a bunch of different things that you are Now you've really expanded out into a bunch of different places. So Like we do wanna kinda own the kitchen. And that was when like when I met with Gordon, I talked about this. Like I

1:08:33 This is what I want. I go I want to innovate. in every kitchen category. So when we can innovate Bring something new, a better mouse trap, we're gonna do it.

1:08:45 If we can't Totally innovate. I want to make something. That's Of the finest quality.

1:08:53 That just look sexy as hell. It's it's amazing'cause you you know, in a I mean of course it was a it was a long I'm sure it's felt like a very long journey, but right, twenty seventeen to twenty twenty five. And you know, you probably uh you might hit seven hundred, eight hundred million this year. Who knows? And um

1:09:12 How many people now work For Hexclad. How many employees do you have around the world? We have in the neighborhood of uh and by the I should know the exact number, but we are s tiring pretty

1:09:24 Regularly. Yeah, still. Uh, globally I'd say we're we're around Two hundred and thirty five, two hundred and forty. So pretty efficient for the amount of revenue you're bringing in and

1:09:35 And Um Everything is still made in Korea or or ha ha is have they had to build second factories and other Asian countries. So we make different things in different places, like I told you, like the ste are steels manufactured in Japan for that. The cook where most of the cookware's made in in China actually.

1:09:53 Our wood products. Armade in Slovenia. our eco friendly aprons. Here in LA. So

1:10:01 We so we do have a lot of uh global locations where we do manufacture, and we're looking to expand that and diversify. further in the next year or two. So um Danny, here you are, sixty years old. Fifty nine, still I'm I'm I'm clicking. Fifty night. But this is your sixty no, I mean, I I think this should this you should be immensely proud. You know, you're you're you're hitting your sixtieth year and you start a business at fifty. You know, it's a big risk and

1:10:31 And it was a while before you saw any money, and now You are You know, majority owner here. Uh you have no investor still. I mean Gordon Ramsey's an equity holder and but but no outside investor still. We we got one outside investor last year and we did Oh that's right, right, right. Gordon Ramsey's Fox. Fox the partnership of Fox and Studio Ramsey.

1:10:54 global based on the hundred million, like yeah. No, I mean it's it really is an amazing gamble Slash sacrificed to make and then. To see it pay off is I mean

1:11:04 It just must be incredibly fulfilling. feeling, you know, just just like We did this, we made it, this worked. You know it is. And I and I hope like

1:11:19 You know I hope that's not a little bit of a People If they get one thing and I I love that you brought up my H multiple times because We are taught like you know, you you know, it there is a fear. If you're gambling, you're Your livelihood.

1:11:34 You gotta a husband or a wife and you got kids, you got like I I didn't have that. So it was easier. So you know, I'm I'm not as brave, right? I was only screwing over my myself if if If I failed, really. Yeah, it's still something. It absolutely is. And it and it is

1:11:53 It is terrifying. If you see a hole in the marketplace, if you think you have a better mouse trap, uh uh don't go to the roulette table, but you know, kind of but take measured risks on yourself and on the fact that you have something that the market wants. That's how we get Innovation. And I applaud it, even f for people that That failed with it. I mean

1:12:16 You know, failure's been one of the best things. If Juice Presso hadn't failed, HexCloud would not Бі сук сво. When you think about

1:12:28 The journey you took. You know, and and where where you are now. How much of of where you got to do you attribute to the to the grind and the work you put in and how much do you attribute to to luck and timing, you know, just People. just watching social media and getting into cooking and may I don't know. What what do you what do you think?

1:12:48 Um I mean that look, that's a really good question. Is there luck involved? There there is chance, whatever we want to call it, luck chance. Did the a pandemic help?

1:13:02 Yes. Do I think we were already wildly successful? Yes, we were. You know, there's stuff I can tr control. I can't control a pandemic, right? I can't control, you know, a boom or a recession.

1:13:17 I can control My work ethic. You know, that I can control. I can control Me knowing that I have turned over every rock to make sure

1:13:29 This is the best product. That I've looked at every marketing plan to know that this is one that's gonna bring us a set level of revenue next year. I can control that, and it's kind of like you know being kinda out in rough seas. You know? I can man the tiller.

1:13:44 Right. I can stay there and I can For go sleep. I can't control Which wave is coming when if I'm controlling the tiller. I have the best chance of us getting to our place successfully. And so I think that's

1:14:00 What I try to do in my life and in my business. Is Be the best guy at the helm. To be able to

1:14:08 control any k storm that happens. 'Cause it's gonna come, right? It's just just a matter of time. Danny Thanks. God, thank you. This is fun.

1:14:21 That's Danny Weiner, CEO and co-founder of HexClad Cookware. By the way, during his time trying to break into Hollywood, Danny landed a few background parts and commercials, but his potential big break He got a role in a film called Rising Sun, starring Sean Connery. And Wesley Snipes.

1:14:41 It wasn't even a bit part. It was like I was a cop, two cop like a couple cops show up, and I you can't even see me in it, which was so disappointing because originally I had a line. And it was short. I don't know, no, it's like one of these like just the facts, please. Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app so you never miss a new episode of the show. And if you're interested in insights, ideas, and lessons from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs.

1:15:11 Please sign up for my newsletter at guyros.com or on Substack. This episode was produced by Carrie Thompson with music composed by Ramteen Arabui. It was edit by Andrea Bruce with research help from Catherine Cypher. Our engineers were Gilly Moon and Jimmy Keeley. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, JC Howard, Chris Massini, Sam Paulsen, John Isabella, Imon Maani, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to how I built this.

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