#775: Jon Batiste — The Quest for Originality, How to Get Unstuck, His Favorite Mantras, and Strategies for Living a Creative Life

0:00 Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferris and welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferris Show. This isn't just any episode. This one turned out. Really, really. Special. And I really encourage everybody to listen to this once. As audio only if you are

0:18 Listening to this without Any video. But also go to youtube.com slash Tim Ferris two R's two S to see. the video. We recorded this episode in the recording studio. Designed by Jimi Hendrix where he slept.

0:35 The acoustics, the surroundings, everything is gorgeous, and my guest was in the flow. We happened to mesh really well together. And it's one of those episodes that I will remember for many years. My guest, John Batiste. is a five time Grammy Award winning and Academy Award winning singer, songwriter, and composer. I met him ages and ages ago.

0:59 Back when he was a mere Incredible, incredible musician, composer, etcetera. But I've been able to watch him become the Marquis Lights John Battiste and it has been a thrill. to watch we talk about it all. His eighth studio album, Beethoven Blues, is set for a November fifteenth release. When we are sitting in Jimi Hendrix's studio, there are pianos.

1:20 Guitars, you name it, and we don't just talk. We walk around and he uses music to answer some of my questions. It's Phenomenal. Beethoven Blues.

1:31 Marks the first installment in his solo piano series showcasing Batiste's interpretation of Beethoven's iconic works. reimagined and that is an understatement. You're gonna hear a lot of it in this episode. towards the last twenty five percent. So Buckle up and stick around. Beethoven Blues follows Batiste's studio album, World Music Radio, which received five Grammy nominations, including Album of the Year. As a composer.

1:56 He scored Jason Reitman's Saturday Night Now in Theaters. The film depicts the chaotic 90 minutes before Saturday Night Live's very first broadcast in 1975. Underscore. By Batisse blending of jazz, classical, and contemporary elements. He composed and produced the music live on set, capturing the intensity of the show's debut. He also appears in the film as Billy Preston.

2:19 The show's first musical guest. And certainly he has lived that out himself. Additionally, Batiste composed and performed music for the Disney Pixar film Soul, for which he won an Academy Award and for best original score alongside Trent Reznor. and Atticus Ross. You can find him at John Battiste.com. That's J O N B A T I S T E dot com on Instagram and socials at John Batiste.

2:43 And Boy oh boy. I love this. I really think you guys are in for a treat. Stick around, listen to the whole thing, watch it a second time on video. at youtube dot com slash Tim Ferris.

2:56 So we're gonna get to the good stuff, but first just a few words. from those who make this podcast possible. The following quote is from one of the most legendary entrepreneurs and investors in Silicon Valley. And here it goes. This team executes at a level you rarely see even among the best technology companies.

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6:24 At this altitude, I can run fly out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. And I'll answer your personal question. No se doye. a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal headoscaler. So The snow monkeys in Japan figured it out. So we've we've been doing it a long time. They just hang out in the hot springs.

6:53 Did you ever go to a place In Japan. Okenawa. I've uh spent time there because I lived in Japan uh when I was younger. Yeah. So I've been to Okinawa. I have, yeah, culturally super different from the rest of Japan. It's cool.

7:08 I can't wait to go. I wanted to ask you if you have been I've never been, but I've always wanted to just go there and like It's been a long period of time. Like months. Yeah. Feel like it could change you. I think it could in part because I asked everybody down there because the Okinawans

7:26 have so many hundred plus senior citizens. They live a long time, or at least they used to. And I asked every person I met, what's the secret? And they all had a different answer, which was pretty adorable. But the one constant was they were all active. I had a driver who was helping us out. He considered himself young. He was eighty-five. And We would drive and he'd point to the retirement homes and he'd say

7:50 That's where you go to die. That's when you stop. He's like as soon as you sit on the couch and start watching TV, it's over. And we would go to the farmers markets and you'd see people who are ninety eight, hundred and three, walking around shopping Tending garden. active. They're still engaged. That's absolutely Incredible.

8:09 Because All of those things you would think of are um Mundane. And that you were trying to get away from doing. Exactly. That's what I'm trying to retire from. Yep.

8:21 Or I want to outsource that which That almost becomes a way of life. It's like a philosophy. Yeah. Totally. I remember I was reading Different books by Kurt Vonnegut is one of my favorite writers. Oh yeah, and he had an I think it was an essay. He was like

8:39 If people tell you the purpose of life is not to fart around, don't believe them. He's like, I go to the post office, I wait in line. Most people don't want to do that, he's like, but That's the connective tissue. All those in between moments, right? And if you're only celebrating The huge this, the huge that, the big events. I mean, you're missing like ninety eight percent of your life.

8:57 Oh man. Wow. There's something about that I think about Often. How do you maintain A flow state.

9:07 in waking life throughout the mundane. How do you embrace the mundane and find The muse in the mundane. Mm-hmm. Without having to go To some sacred place. Yeah, exactly. To take a time out. Like

9:21 I have to go and plug into something else to Connect. Yeah, totally. Versus just being connected. The Muse in the Mundane, how do you How have you found that? Or how have you tried to find that?

9:35 Mistakes. All right. Mistakes are amazing. Mistakes are brilliant. It's a gift to go about your day. Mm-hmm. And for something. Either mistake or

9:46 Some that you didn't plan. An interruption. Some Seeming calamity. Mm-hmm. Happening.

9:53 Yeah. That allows for you to not only respond But to create. Mm-hmm.

10:00 And then in that moment you have the ability to discover something. That's much greater than anything that you could invent or or devise because There's something that happens with the synapses. And the way That you respond

10:16 to seeming calamity. That brings you to your highest potential. So I have to ask you about something I read when I was doing research for this, which is always fun because I get to be like a creepy stalker online for people I know. Yeah. Which otherwise would be very strange and uncomfortable for everybody. And I was reading this piece from The Guardian and I wanna ask about Introspection because you're very reflective. Mm-hmm.

10:42 And I admire that. I mean you seem to have cultivated self awareness in a lot of what you do. In this Guardian piece, they said maybe that's because he didn't speak until he was ten or something along those lines. Did you Not speak?

10:56 For a lot of your I guess childhood. given the framing that they put in the article. Man, you know what's amazing is those years I don't have so many memories of those years I And I don't understand why. I've just started to excavate that.

11:11 Mm-hmm. More and more. In The last year. Just trying to figure out what was going on. What was the context?

11:20 And For all intents of purposes, my life has truly been blessed. I've had such a great Upbringing. But there was something about

11:32 Being born into the world. That felt like I needed to observe Before I participated. Felt like I needed to watch what was happening. Mm-hmm. And

11:44 synthesize what was happening. All the different perspectives, all the different personalities, growing up around a lot of colorful personalities. Lot of sounds and rhythms, a lot of Life. Life force energy. Yeah.

11:56 And a lot of danger. Mm-hmm. So I think the aspect of being a In All of that. Meeting my natural state.

12:05 My innate makeup. It was deepening introspection. Something That I still have Yet to put words to a fully understand.

12:16 In my early years put me in a space Where I was observing and gathering. Observing and gathering, observing gathering. And then eventually it became

12:29 Okay. Let me emerge. Into a new era. Let me try to mold some things. And it started with music. Let me try to mold the world around me. Let me try to shift things and create things.

12:42 And influence things, dare I say. Yeah. Let me try. In little ways I would start. And then it extended far beyond music. What age would you say that was? Hard to pin down, but

12:55 Yeah, exactly. Around fourteen or fifteen. It was music that allowed for me to To have a

13:08 opportunity to present myself. On stage you have to present yourself in a way that is Amplifying aspects. And ultimately.

13:19 You have a decision to make as a performer to decide How far between who you actually are And who you've created.

13:28 To project. On the stage. Are you? How big is the jump, the discrepancy between those two? It's a choice you make. How do you think about because I remember chatting with Andrew Zimmern.

13:40 T V host does a lot of different things and he said be very careful about And I'm paraphrasing it. He's like, Be very careful about who you are in episode one, season one. Because you could paint yourself into a corner where you have to be that guy. Now forever if it's popular.

13:54 How have you thought about that? I thought about it from First the perspective of how do I get to a point where All that's within me. All these things that I feel, these ideas that I have, this Vision.

14:06 becomes a reality. So that took so much Stepping outside of my comfort zone. We call it throw yourself in the water. We would do things like When I was in college

14:17 My band and I would go in the subway. And we would play for people. We wouldn't ask for money. We wouldn't busk. We would just play Concerts for people who weren't expecting a concert. To just

14:30 Get to the point where we were Fearless about Presenting art. And also Wanted to change the atmosphere.

14:37 in this community of a train station that has all these people From different walks of life. Now locked in the train together. So it's a certain Aspect of

14:49 Winning them over. That we worked on. How do we create harmony in this scenario. And then that extended.

14:55 Now let's go. And strike up conversation with people. That we don't know. And talk to them about things. that they're going through.

15:04 And then let's share some things that we don't want to share. That we're going through. I have a big question for you. I think it's really to all of this, and I've wanted to ask you a lot. And Molly's getting excited and stretching over here. So I think it's a good sign. So the question is about How

15:19 To choose Where you go on this quest of originality. It seems like that. was part of your life pretty early, maybe fifteen, sixteen, seventeen. The phrase that keeps coming back is quests.

15:33 for originality. And of course we're all original. We're all One of a kind. Yes, yes, uh. But in a saturated world in a busy world. With so many fastets of ourselves, you can go in a million different directions. You have a lot of choices. So

15:49 How have you chosen Which pathways to explore. Like interacting with these people on the subway. Playing some of the instruments you've played that I know were not assigned to you at Julia. Yes, yes, yes. So how do you pick which aspects of yourself or which scent trails to explore?

16:08 You have to Understand. What is it that's yearning to be expressed within you. Even if you're

16:18 Dreadfully. Afraid of it. You can have something within. That seems so far away from the reality. Of your current state.

16:31 That's It couldn't possibly be for you. Yeah. In your mind. And every five of your being is telling you.

16:40 This is it. What I should be pursuing. This isn't Who I am. That's the one right there. That one right there. The scary one. This isn't who I won't go away. Yeah.

16:52 But it sticks with you and you start to say, Oh It's not going away. Could you give an example? Do any examples come to mind for you personally? Oh my gosh. Well Performing.

17:03 For me, my first experiences with performing Well. Traumatic. At best. I mean

17:12 the level of performance anxiety that I still have is Unbelievably. Paralyzing to the point that I've I've developed mantras and different ways of reaching Four.

17:25 What's inside the Just a greater sense of purpose and philosophy that really is a foundation that lifts me to the point Of taking the stage and sharing it because it's bigger than oneself, right?

17:38 And did you feel that yearning to perform? Was it an image? Was it a feeling? Was that the yearning? That was part of it. I remember my first time on a talent show. dancing, which is another aspect of it. Dancing. Something that I was not naturally accustomed to doing

17:56 Besides just at family functions. And it wasn't something that came natural to me. I was more of someone who Was a spiritual mover. Versus

18:07 The most precise dancer. But I went on a talent show with my best friend. We were in elementary school at the time. And he goes on to say he was a very natural dancer. And he convinced me to join him.

18:21 On the talent show stage in front of the entire school. From K through eight. The whole school, all the teachers, everybody just Gathered. In the auditorium.

18:32 The music stars playing. It was like some sort of decrepit Michael Jackson beat like Fisher Price that you did. Cast you SK one, I remember. It was going, man. And I get up there. And I'm going

18:50 And f at this time what I knew was The Running Man, MC Hammer. I remember. You know that? Oh pants parachute thing. Yeah. Gotta gotta be careful. Can't ride any horses with that, but yeah, you can dance with them on No, you gotta get away from that. I I said, man, listen, let me try to run a man. That didn't work. Everything I turned to didn't work.

19:17 Okay, let me try to do the moon walk. Keon just did it too. That didn't work. It was a mix of Cheers. And laughter? both this sort of excitement by what he was doing from the audience and also this sort of What is wrong with this child to think that he could be up there?

19:36 I was mortified. And I remember leaving that. Scenario. And thinking I would never I've had so many moments.

19:45 That's the thing that I remember most about performance. Early on. Every moment I try to perform. I faced rejection.

19:53 I don't ever have to do that again. There's nothing in that for me. Now fast forward, you know, I'm thinking about that dancing moment. Because It came back to me again a couple of years ago when we were at the Grammy's and we were rehearsal.

20:07 And I'm leading this Performance With thirty dancers. And there's a moment.

20:15 Where We all run. The tape is probably somewhere out there. But there's a moment. Where we all run in place.

20:24 We break the fourth wall, we jump into the audience. And we run from the stage and the vision Jamel McWilliams and I we were Let's just break through the screen.

20:35 Let's break through any pretense. Let's build And energy with our collective here. This group of us.

20:45 Yeah just Permeates every soul watching. I remember even saying at some point on the stage, touch the screen. Get a blessing. It was almost like

20:54 Tony Robbins motivational speech meets You know Baptist Church. We got to this point where the energy it was fierce. You know, just like a shaman, just moving the energy around. We got to this run and move, and that was the launch of it all. And I remember thinking back.

21:12 to when I was that kid in second grade. And I was Almost booed off the stage if it wasn't for Keon, right? And I'm doing this move. At the Grammys.

21:23 And it's happening in real time. There's a collective life force energy that's coming from it. And that's the thing that Creating that, moments like that, moments long before that. Whether it's in the subway.

21:36 Just creating that energy was the call. That was what you were yearning for, was creating the energy? That Type of Electricity. It's electricity.

21:47 It's community. It's what the world Could be it's an aspirational vision of Of us? I thought for a while like

21:56 What is the field that I enter into? to create this or to cultivate this. What is that space? And I didn't have words for it for many years. And it evolves over time and it requires performance, but it's so much

22:11 I've never said uh shared this, but I even think I mean we already getting deep, so why not? Let's go for it. But this idea. has led me to places that

22:21 In recent times I don't know. How much longer I will be performing. Or be a musician. Why is that? I've never said that.

22:32 But it's been coming up in the last I mean to like and I have talked about it before, just Because we have that type of relationship of exploring and and challenging each other, but The form of the vocation. It's shifting.

22:45 And The gift of music for me. And its meaning in my life and its application. within the vocation is also shifting. Do you know where it's shifting to, or do you just feel the tectonic plates shifting and you're like, All right, let's

23:00 Pause and pay attention. How are you experiencing that? Shift. That's shifting. Man. It's such an intuitive thing.

23:08 It's such a trust based relationship. You don't Force it. You don't Force it.

23:16 You can't force it. It just tells you when it's time. Is that a sensitivity that you think everybody has, or do you think you have greater sensitivity to feel that and to sit with it? Even though it's might be uncomfortable to not have A compass pointing you in a certain direction.

23:34 I think those early years Couple with Now By my own Volition.

23:41 You know, when I was in college There were times when they sent me for psychiatric evaluation. In those early years There may be some route. To

23:53 Your first question about Why wasn't I speaking? There may be some root Within The way that my psyche was formed. And for me also the superpower within that.

24:06 That's allowed for me to develop a relationship with presence and with being that allows for me to trust and have faith. And also just the natural State of an artist is to have a Complete faith.

24:19 Unwavering faith in the ability for you to make this thing real that no one sees or can experience yet, but you. And you have to Do your best with words which fail to describe it. to m communicate to collaborators to potentially join the ranks of building this thing.

24:36 You know, I do. I think wanna turn this into the confessional on my part. So maybe for another time. No, go for it. Well I I do There are experiences on the maybe far end of the spectrum, you have mystical experiences, which by definition are ineffable, right? They they are they they translate very poorly to words. And then there are these felt senses and these evolved capabilities that also predate language, so it's very difficult, if not impossible, to apply clean prose to describing them.

25:10 And To that extent. I do think I feel what you're saying. And I'm curious As these things are taking shape in your body and your mind, these things you feel that are not yet externalized.

25:23 How much of it is waiting and how much of it is sort of tickling the muse for these original Concepts or ideas. Or impulses. Are there ways that you help yourself to generate Or be receptive. to new directions and new ideas.

25:40 You know I was checking out Alfred Hitchcock the other night. Suspense. If you think about The device

25:49 In cinema. That he mastered. And you experience that through The things that

25:57 He created. Mm-hmm. At least for me, that was something that brought me back to And understanding of The Muse.

26:07 Which is this idea. That suspense is created. When there are stakes. And when you don't know What's gonna happen on the other side.

26:17 So You Then have to put Everything on the line. that you believe in, that motivates you, that powers you.

26:26 You have to put it on the line. In order To move toward Whatever your desired outcome is. In a limited amount of time.

26:35 And sometimes without enough Intel or intellectual processing of the information to even know which direction you want to take it in. You just have the moment.

26:47 So for me I love to create. These Pocket of suspense. These pockets of

26:56 Pressurized. Creativity. A pressurized experience. That leads me to discovery. That

27:04 It pushes me forward. And I think about things that are not music. Like cinema or There's so many things that are not connected to The actual craft.

27:15 that I draw from much, much, much more. than actually thinking about The inspiration of Music and the fruit of the craft itself. So

27:25 If we take a closer look at The stakes and the unknown. I'm wondering if I'm hearing you correctly because I was just a week ago having a conversation with a number of friends. Having dinner, drinks. And I posed a question which was what do you do when you get

27:41 Stuck. Or you're feeling stuck. You want to f push yourself in a new direction. And there were a lot of different answers, but there's one common thread which was in effect I need to book the theater so I write the play. a feeling of getting in over your head where you commit to something and then you

27:59 Figure out. what that thing is gonna be. But now you have something like on the schedule. People are involved. And then you're in the dark groping around, you kinda figure it out. I'm wondering if you apply some version of that.

28:12 In your own life if that's what In a sense you mean by like stakes and Moving into the unknown, or if it takes Other forms. That

28:21 was the gateway drug. But what happens for me at this point. is the zoom out. In the zoom out. Is this perspective?

28:30 On all things. Time. The perspective of your lineage. The Understanding of

28:38 Your life span. All these things That require you to zoom out to really assess And feeling your married. to grasp.

28:48 And it makes those commitments feel minor to me. Even if they're attached to Some monetary outcome or some consequence.

28:59 That is deemed Dangerous. By the way that we uh metrics on these things. Almost become

29:06 So irrelevant to me that It requires me to have another motivation. In order to really reach the thing that is most impactful and most resonant within what kind of motivation Motivates you these days. So when you have the zoom out

29:23 When I come back to The creative process. It almost has to be the opposite of what it used to be. Which is you know Let me put myself in a position

29:33 Throw myself in the water and figure out how I'm gonna evolve and do something. Then it eventually went to How do I go into How do I bridge this into a whole nother craft? How do I create That's why I love

29:44 The idea of What we call genres, which are just silos that Promote ignorance. That's fun for me. That's not based on a truth.

29:53 So the zoom out helps you to Assess all the Truth. The laws. This is what is, right.

30:00 Then The motivation has to come. In the opposite way. Of force. It has to come

30:08 Almost Like a dream comes to you in the night. You can't do anything about Your dreams per se. But feed

30:17 The dream machine. You can't Generate. The opportunity for you to have a certain dream. Right.

30:24 You can perhaps Interact with your dream once it arrives. And it's so ephemeral. Even remembering your dreams. Oftentimes.

30:35 Can be difficult depending on what space you are in your life. It makes everything that happens Delicate. And it makes everything that I commit to

30:46 in some ways very tenuous when it comes to the mammoth mechanics of our industry. And I'm getting to a point Which is a part of the realization where Perhaps does not A context within

30:57 The industry. And the mechanics there in that As they exist today. That I can find true inspiration from. And that I can connect the dots.

31:07 There's a constellation of inspiration that crosses so many spectrums of society. And I can't Access it. If I play by these rules. Yeah, if you're If you're in the silo playing by the

31:20 The laws and quotation marks, right? Exactly. And the zoom out gives you such a perspective on that. That it makes you Fiercely prepared for when

31:30 the dream comes because then you'll embrace it because it's your top priority. It's the chief Motivation. But you can't make it come. Yeah. But you're primed to receive it when it shows up. You're ready.

31:43 So when I don't have inspiration or I have a block I do nothing. I live. And it's absolutely Because of

31:51 The deeper inspiration. That I I'm blessed. I feel it's been cultivated. I'm connected to it.

32:00 And I know it's real. It doesn't have to greet me every day. I know it's there. Not a lot of maintenance required. Yes.

32:08 It just requires you to be Focus and be ready when it's there. So let's say The muse makes an appearance. You're receptive.

32:20 And you're not grasping, but your hands are ready to catch, right? And then you go into execution mode on whatever it might be, or you start exploring. I wanna come back. Which was the performance anxiety and the mantras and various things that you use to ground you. What are the mantras that you

32:40 Have landed on. Well I haven't shared all the I share some Two of them we share at the shows when we perform often. One is One that I thought of for children.

32:52 And I thought of for the child within me. And it's I feel good. I feel free. I feel fine just being me. And you go over and over and over and over.

33:03 I feel good. Uh feel free. I feel fine just being me. Circular melody. I feel good today. Also good today. I feel good.

33:13 I feel free. I feel fine. One, two, three. Pum pum pum. Pum pum pum.

33:19 Boom, boom, boom. So everybody sings along automatically. Everybody's staffed. I've seen it because I was in Moody Theater in Austin. watching this just s extend into the audience. Yes. Amazing to watch. Oh amazing to experience participate in, too. I was so man, it was Such a great feeling. Seeing you there. Just'cause I understand you get it on so many levels.

33:43 You really understand. It's such a spiritual practice. It's not So Much about

33:51 Me showing up and playing instruments or You know, look at how great the band. Look at the dance, look at the More and more, more and more, and it always has been, but more and more. How do we continue to refine This spiritual practice, this ritual of community, of sharing, of artistry.

34:09 All of it. And what are we pointing at? What are we Focus this life force energy at next. So those mantras for me are the

34:18 If you don't live it. And It's not a part of you, it's not gonna come out of the instrument. What we play is life. What we create is life.

34:28 The quality of the human being. The quality of the vessel. Even a broken vessel, which is oftentimes the most effective, the most relatable, the most universal. But There has to be that space in you that you've saved.

34:43 That is the sacred space. It doesn't have to be Of course there are great ways to cultivate Physical world. Sacred. Places and practices.

34:54 So for me. those mantras and my prayers and that sense of understanding how to Always know if that's there and if it's not there, it might be time to take Six months a year or whatever I need to take. Oh.

35:07 So that then I can Not that is there. But right now I'm in a period. Where It's very strong.

35:14 So It allows for me to be fearless. Which is something that I haven't felt that this strongly. In a while.

35:23 Oh yeah, gotta ride the wave then. You know what I mean? Yeah, you got a battle for the wave. Yeah. Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by AG1, the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole body health. And I do get asked a lot what I would take if I could only take one supplement. And the true answer is invariably AG1. It simply covers a ton of bases. I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me.

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36:35 What other mantras? Can you share? Oh man, this is deep. You going in. I'm going in. I'm going in. Scuba gear intact. Him.

36:46 Yeah, you know. Because I believe in the power of mantras. Oh you I do. In meditation, in repetition. The ability to in a sense end up with the mind of no mind.

37:01 to cleanse the the palate. I mean, there's so many different ways you can use mantras also. Which is why this is as deeply interesting to me. It can be a concentration practice. It can be sort of an erasing practice to regain some equilibrium. There's so many different ways to use Repetition. Could be drumming too. It doesn't have to be Could be

37:21 Instrumental. There are so many different ways. That you can enter unusual uncommon. States. using repetition. So

37:30 I'm very, very interested in this. Which is why I'm asking. For sure. So Two of the ones that I I Not for stage, but just more for crisis that I go to is be still and know, which is from the Bible. Be still and know that I'm God. It is this idea. Yeah.

37:47 I'll give you a a practice, so Be still and know. That I am God. Be still and know that I am. Be still and know.

37:58 That I Be still and know that. Be still. And no. Be still.

38:04 B. Just this idea. I've set With that. And each phrase has a different meaning.

38:11 Even be still and Then breath. Uh. Room Tone This there's messages in that

38:18 That space. There's messages in the crevice. So I've done that. And sat in that.

38:26 And it's changed my entire perspective on a crisis or Something that I felt. Perhaps I was wrong, or perhaps You know. There's so many.

38:36 Opportunities for us. in this life. To transmutate. Darkness. into light or even darkness into just into perspective.

38:45 Another one is Thy will be done. Which is One of surrender. Now We believe there's a divine power. There's however you name it.

38:55 Whatever your relationship to it is. We've for the most part had an experience that something Beyond explanation. The universe is carrying us.

39:05 In some way. Thy will be done. Is Trusting that there's a divine logic to it all. When there's nothing that you can do.

39:13 That will be done. That will be done. Thy will be done. Because the belief Of

39:20 This divine logic. allows for you to understand. That There's a path. And

39:26 You are accounted for. In that path. You are accounted for there's so much. That is allowed. For you to be the culmination of so many things as

39:36 led to you and there will never be another you. You the only one. That specificity alone. It's something that comes to me. when I'm in that s thy will be done. It's a revelation of so many other things.

39:48 Which is also allowing for The right thing. to occur and for me to be accepting of it. Versus For me to control it without knowledge of what the true right thing is.

40:01 So there's so much that you have to cleanse yourself of From believing. From holding on to that's not actually connected to the best outcome. But you can't always know that.

40:12 Especially in crisis. Very hard to know. And so many parables are always like this this happened. Such good news, maybe. Right. Such and such happened. This is terrible. Maybe. It just depends on so many things outside of our sphere of Knowledge that's not.

40:27 on so many levels can't be known. When would you be inclined? To say to yourself. That last mantra. When would you apply that in your life?

40:36 There's So many things that happened to us. With our health. I talk about

40:44 As You know, yeah. Had her on the show. Yes, and I also borrow a lot of phrases from her. In particular this idea of Being between two kingdoms, this idea of the kingdom

40:57 of the will. The kingdom of the sick. And we all exist. in this in between space. And we have a passport for both.

41:06 She created this Understanding of that through the way she lives through it. Where she gracefully moves through this time.

41:17 With such grace. Such clarity. I think about that. I think about how

41:26 There's a certain Surrender. That's required of all of us in times when we deal with health challenges, whether it's us or a loved one. And you find yourself in moments where there's literally nothing that you can do to take away

41:40 Pain or to take away. The unknown. And the anxiety of waiting. So That's an opportunity for a great

41:49 Amount of growth. That's an opportunity for a lesson to be instilled in a way. That Almost nothing else that I can think of.

41:58 affords you. The chance for. That will be done. That will be done. Yeah, this uh coach I worked with for a while he used to say, This is your pop quiz from the universe. When something unexpected would pop up.

42:12 You'd be like, All right, all that meditation you've been doing. Let's see it. That's it. Let's see, brush. Come on, brush. You've been rehearsing. This is game time. Let's see how it goes. Yeah, yeah.

42:23 Oh Tim. You know what I'm saying? When you you in that moment. Yeah. Yeah, I've had a lot of sympathy for watching you both go through that journey and I can only imagine what it's like. I mean I I have been, of course, and Most people listening have been in a position where they feel powerless to help or they don't know how to help.

42:41 A loved one. But I had a lot of sympathy for a challenging road. And also Really?

42:49 Then uh In awe of how much growth both of you have Exhibited through The challenges and pain and so on. In any case, I just want to say that. Oh man. It means a lot to hear that and it feels so much

43:04 So much of the time. As Hadd as it may sound. It feels like a privilege to go through it. Together.

43:13 And the way that we Have seen it. It shifted into Almost The orientation of blessing.

43:22 And that's not to say that the difficulties are any easier. Right. doesn't change the nature of hard things. They're hard.

43:32 But There's something About life. There's a truth. There's something about

43:39 Going through the fire. That is Is so required. And Something about suffering.

43:46 That is so essential. This idea that we're meant to Run from Pain.

43:53 Or run from difficult Things. And find the most Leisurely And

44:00 Completely Frictionless. Existence possible. It's such a lie. It's not

44:07 Just a lie because it's not possible. But if it were possible. That would kill you the most. It would rob you. In so many ways. Which is, of course, easy for me to say sitting in this comfortable chair right now. Yet in the midst of it, it's sometimes hard to see at the same time.

44:24 There was uh An astrophysicist Jan Eleven who was on the podcast some time ago and I'm gonna butcher this quote, but it's more the concept for me that has really stuck. She said, something along the lines of I used to look for the underlying path that would help me navigate around obstacles, and then I realized there is no underlying path, like the obstacles Are the path.

44:44 Through which. You discover yourself. Through which you learn. Through which you grow. That is the path.

44:51 That's the path. Take those away. That's it. And then you're just Just a free floating essence of comfort, that's just not the human experience. Yeah. And also you're talking about blessings. So I could imagine even an earlier version of me would say, like, Oh, come on now. I mean

45:09 I suppose that's helpful, but maybe it's delusional and it's overly optimistic, but it's deeper than that. And I think that misses the mark because Given A longer time frame, given all the unknowns. It could be a blessing, it could be a curse, but you can't know which it is over time, and it depends a lot on your perspective. So you might as well choose a blessing. That is the more enabling

45:31 Perspective. And Since you can't know. Choose the side of the coin that is most enabling.

45:39 Seems to me, at least. In the abstract, it's easy to say, you know. Taxi runs over my foot. We'll see how I do later today, but It's that and it's also You only will know when you are there. You have to go there to know there.

45:54 You only know What it can be for you. When you're in the fire. Everybody can talk about what they would do. When they are there.

46:04 Right. We can all say May If that would have happened to me I would

46:10 You know, Slay the Dragon. Yeah. Uh I would, you know, whatever you think you would do. Мост офтен. is not what you would do.

46:20 And that's not because you're not who you think you are. Is because There's so many other factors. You can't know. And for many things in my life that I think about

46:30 The things I've learned the most from are When I've embraced the discomfort. And realize what I was made of through it. Let me just sit with that for a second. Yeah. Do you have And then we're gonna rewind the clock and I'm gonna go back to

46:44 Very young John with a question or two, but do you Any favorite failures. Now I put failures in quotation marks. Because this is something that at the time Seemed crushing or seemed awful that actually in some way set the stage.

47:01 For much. Bigger or better things later. Do you have any? of those types of slips or rejections or failures that come to mind?

47:12 Wow, I feel like my life is riddled with them. And I also feel like I move through them. fairly quickly. Not Cavalier, but There's a sense of understanding it now that I didn't have

47:27 Then Yeah, how do you move through them quickly? Why do you think that is? It's because I know they're for my own good. Not that they're all for my own good. I guess the reason is because I don't actually believe that failure exists.

47:40 Alright. It's not that it's necessarily for your own good, but failure doesn't exist. There's opportunity for you to take something from the experience. And even If the experience is reinforcing something that you already know.

47:54 It's reinforcing something that you already know. It's an opportunity for you to see This experience, this thing that you wanted, this thing that maybe you hope would work out. But didn't work out. All of that adds to the fabric and the richness of your character and your experience and your knowledge base.

48:12 So that you as I say, you go there to know there. You've been there. I've traveled that road. I've played those notes. I know that piece.

48:21 As on the song Ah on est. And there's always on the other side of everything the Opportunity for transformation. Can you tell a story of

48:31 Any I'm not gonna use the the word failure. Growth opportunities. that you encountered before you turned into John Batiste and kind of marquee lights, right?'Cause you've really Popped in a huge way.

48:44 since I first met you ages ago in probably Utah or wherever we happened to be. Before that Can you tell the story of any incidents where things didn't go your way? And how you metabolized it? Man, I grew up in

49:02 Between Kenna, Louisiana, which is a very Old school southern Country. Railroad tracks running through the middle of it with canals.

49:13 Provincial Southern Town. Just outside of New Orleans. And New Orleans is another planet. Yeah. And I grew up

49:20 You know, as a kid, getting bullied For uh all types of things, man. When I was in school I get bullied. Whether it was Are you okay? Are you with us?

49:31 Are you slow? You know Your feet. Your nose, your hair. All these aspects of

49:38 Self esteem. That were attacked. So then You go through life In the early years.

49:45 With no real understanding of what you have a value to offer the world. What you have to connect. So fast forward you get to a point. Well you discover music.

49:56 But it's still something that You know, amongst my family. I was the youngest and least talented. When I was growing up I didn't think that I would ever be a performer'cause there were thirty other people who had that covered. It wasn't wild to try to paint a picture of that in my mind. People that's a lot of performers, yeah.

50:13 People don't get That they think Oh, you were born with A tambourine in your hand and you came out singing. This is not the case.

50:23 There was a glorious awkwardness that was a a decade or more. before I touched the instrument. Started at eleven years old. Late bloomer in the context of everybody around me. Now There was so many bad gigs, bad performances. And I was known as the kid who would play

50:40 Expressionless. I would be playing and it would be All well and good. But my face would have no expression. None.

50:47 It would be like I was shut off. So I get to the point where there's a long period of hours and hours in the practice room and performances. Between fourteen and seventeen.

50:59 Where were you at the time still in New Orleans. New Orleans. Living in Kenneth, going back and forth in New Orleans. Performing at night. going to two schools at once. Just this idea that You had the art school in that evening, then in the mornings you had an academic school. Still getting bullied.

51:14 Still also becoming somewhat of A young musical Phenom. But

51:21 Not the best one. So there's like still not really like Uh You don't really know where you fit or where it's all going. And was at that point was piano the sort of key To that.

51:35 Phenom perception or was it the piano. That was the thing. That was something that You know, I Alternate between playing in clubs.

51:44 At fourteen, fifteen years old. That I wasn't supposed to be in. At night. After going to school.

51:52 And then I would also on the weekends be doing Classical piano lessons and piano competitions. So alternate between those two. realities and also going

52:02 And really finding this sort of Tribe my peers. Starting bands with First my cousins. Travis and Jamal who are older and multi instrumental and

52:12 Inspired me. Then Troy, Trombone, Shorty, Andrews, who's Maybe At the time we met.

52:18 Eleven or twelve. He'd been playing for a decade and touring the world. So We start bands, we're doing club shows, we're doing all these things. And constantly just presenting

52:29 things that are experimental and pushing ourselves to do things that we've never done. I didn't have a desire Or a real push to go into music.

52:39 Until I was maybe Seventeen. And I moved to New York on my own and the first Yeah, please for one sec. So okay. That's a cliffhanger. So first story of failure. Yes. Yeah.

52:50 What did it what did the conversation look like when you're informing Friends and family that You're gonna move to New York. What was the drive behind this?

53:01 How did that go? And then we're gonna get back to the cliffhanger of I felt like there was a great deal of support. My mother is a visionary when it comes to understanding What

53:13 Someone could be. She was the the driving force of The piano being the instrument that I focus on at eleven versus You know, several other things that When the periphery. I could have chosen the drums. And just in brief, why did she

53:28 Think that was A clutch move. I don't understand how she does it, but she does she just saw. That's the thing. That's how you have a piano player inside of you. Yes. Yes.

53:39 Even if she didn't see that fully. She saw That The piano. Is the right direction.

53:48 for you to take in music. Uh is it because it's the option that opens up the most options? Or is there more to it? I don't know if she had a vision. She mentioned sometimes that There's a sophistication.

54:00 to the piano that she was attracted to. That felt like it was The instrument for someone who is gonna apply all of their forces And all of the

54:11 Abilities. It's a conductor's instrument. It's the maestro's instrument. So I know that that was a part of her think it's the thing that's gonna Allow for you to be

54:22 As highbrow or as lowbrow as you want. I think it was a smart I mean it seems maybe self evident to say, but Very prescient.

54:32 Incredibly powerful. Deeply. Directing. Because when I look at what you're capable of doing part of the reason it seems to me that you're able to harness this broad spectrum. of options is because you have

54:46 That highbrow card to pull out. And if people want to nitpick or they want to do this and this, you're like, All right. I mean just sit down for a second. And then they're like, Okay, I take it back. Yeah. Which buys you permission to do A really wide range of things. Yes. Yeah. Yes. That

55:03 is her thing. She's very Clairvoyant. It's also a leadership quality has She was environmentalist. Before it was the in vogue thing.

55:13 to do it for many years. You know, she she would at at a different time Not having been born in the south, a black woman like her would be a CEO of a company. It's a different thing that she has that's insignificant. to think about now in retrospect all the decisions that she made. Which eventually led to me graduating high school.

55:33 A year early. Moving to New York as a minor at seventeen. And Her supporting that. My dad also supporting that as a

55:42 musical mentor, my first musical mentor, he was the one who was like, Okay New York where cats really play, bruh. You know, in New Orleans We play.

55:53 And then there's like a legit thing. W you know the cats in New York. They're a little stiff. But you learn a lot. So he supported that too. From a different angle, right? So I went up there and he's like, you know.

56:05 If you can make it in there. You have a lot to come back with. Division was never Oh you'll go there and stay there. You did I do.

56:15 So you you were saying your first failure. So you get to New York. What happens? It's a disaster. Man.

56:24 Listen. Molly's like I'm listening. I went to New York. And Within the first week.

56:33 Um In the subway. Traveling around. And I pass out on the platform. Pass out on the platform.

56:39 Yeah. Is a mouth. And like what's going on? What's happening here? This doesn't happen a lot. I pay attention to this.

56:46 Molly's sitting right next to you. Hello, Molly. It's my external nervous system. So you pass that on the platform. Yes, yes. Sounds dangerous. Yeah, very dangerous. Luckily there were some friends there. Who could Catch me and take me to

57:01 Which at this time was uh I think it was Roosevelt, the ER. The one that's right next to Lincoln Center. Maybe it's near Fordum. We went there. I'm there, they say Oh, you're exhausted.

57:12 And Maybe you're having um some migraines or something. They give me Tylenol, tell me to go away. Um having night sweats. I'm basically feeling this sharp pain. In my lung.

57:23 And then I start to pass out again. I feel this intensity. Meanwhile. The second day that I was there before all this happened. I'm in the dorms of Juilliard. I'm unpacking. I'm doing all the things. The bunk is up.

57:37 I fall off the bump. And Basically. Fracture rib if not close to it. They do the X ray. They like, You got a lot happening. But

57:46 Now, this is the wildest part. I go back to the ER. They say you have walking pneumonia that you've had. For two weeks. You have to stay here.

57:57 overnight over a few days while you know we give you the IV fluids and the antibiotics and all the things. I miss the orientation. Of the school year. I missed all the things that you kinda get acclimated to. And there's nobody that is in New York. I have a

58:12 Second cousin who lives in Harlem. who I get acquainted with. And we become closer during this time. But I remember thinking, Am I supposed to be here? From falling out the bunk.

58:22 I'm like, No, I can't miss this. So I go back. I'm just in there. Next thing you know, I'm fainting in the subway. Oh man. Oh, I'm just exhausted. I gotta cool out. Next thing you know, I'm in the nights of sweating. I'm something's happening. That's my lung scrying out. You know.

58:36 You've had pneumonia. You've been walking around with this. So Between that being the first Yeah. Of me being in New York.

58:45 First time at Julio. First time being Away from home. It completely felt like a a crash and burn scenario. It's time for you to get out of here.

58:56 All the signs point to the exit. Everything's telling Me. at this time internally, as I'm sitting in the hospital. I remember those days. It was like three or four days I was there. And I felt This sort of

59:08 As a kid, you like I don't wanna tell my parents. But I also don't feel like I belong here. I need to get out of here.

59:16 And it's also this kind of There was a dichotomy of Coming from This very rich cultural heritage and this beautiful Expression of

59:28 Excellence and pedagogy, but Julia being this European classical legitimizing Entity That

59:36 Especially as a young black kid. Pushing the boundaries. Of what generationally my family has achieved. And also musically eventually wanted to You know, become a disruptor from inside of all of it and just

59:50 In the most benevolent way, rip it all down and build it again a different way. Knowing that that was somewhat of a motivation and then landing and sort of dead on arrival. Felt like It was ultimately

1:00:04 The type of failure that It almost not only made me go home, but Quit music. Just kinda just like this isn't my profession. I can just go home.

1:00:13 I had a whole bunch of things I could have done. Other than this. You know, to sit in there by yourself thinking about Is this a message? So what happened?

1:00:23 You're here. What Resurrected. The confidence or the direction. Just the inner knowing, man. You gotta just know.

1:00:31 All right, hold on, hold on. I don't have a I believe you. I believe you and I Underscore it and You're a sensitive guy. When I say sensitive, I mean like your instrumentation is sensitive. You're like a jewellery scale, not some like scale at the sports club in New York that's five pounds off. You're down to like the nanogram. So you have sensitive instrumentation.

1:00:50 You think to yourself, Man. I really Thought A, B, and C here I am. I've had this

1:00:58 Twelve car pile up of disasters. Maybe I should just go home. What did the little whispers say? That Started to tilt it back.

1:01:07 in the other direction towards that inner knowing. What was the feeling? That's one question. If you want to take it a different angle, I would say, let's say there's a kid. Ten years from now. Basically you. Very similar. Kenner, Louisiana.

1:01:21 Actually hard. Sends you a letter. All these things have happened. Different set of disasters, basically. I really don't know if this is for me.

1:01:30 I could go back and do A, B, and C. So very similar situation. And he's like Maybe he hasn't earned annoying, but you don't know. What do you say to that kit? Would be another way. You can take it whichever direction makes sense.

1:01:41 So Youngster Take your time. There's no rush.

1:01:48 Pace yourself. What doesn't kill you makes you strong is what they say. But until you experience it, that's the only way. the texture that that added to me. Immediately.

1:02:01 In retrospect is why I continue. The inner knowing that These experiences Which Or just

1:02:10 You know. A series of Unfortunate. Things at an unfortunate time. Can be

1:02:18 Exacerbated in your mind. And in your psyche, especially if you stewing. So I think And I will tell this to the youngster. That happening to you.

1:02:28 Is The gift. of your arrival. Because it allows for you to figure out Upon entry.

1:02:36 How to process All of the discomfort that's to come. In different forms and different ways. So pace yourself. Take your time.

1:02:46 It's your time. It doesn't all have to happen. Right now. And as I'm listening to describe the Gift of

1:02:54 these unfortunate events because it's preparing you for the discomfort to come. It makes me think of psychological and spiritual callouses. It's like oh Now you can do some real heavy lifting. Yeah, yeah, now you yeah, yeah. That's right. So the sensitivities I want to double click on again just for a second because

1:03:15 Personally and I've seen this in friends. Busy, busy, busy, go, go, go, hundred miles an hour. Trying to do everything all at once. And uh that hasn't been me forever, but there have been periods of time When I'm like that. And

1:03:28 When I'm in that gear, I wouldn't say That If someone were to ask me Do you feel a deep sense of inner knowing about where you're gonna be.

1:03:38 A year or two from now where you want to be at say no. However If I slow down a bit. If I declutter my mind a bit.

1:03:47 Not necessarily watching paint dry, but I create the space, whether it's through meditating, whether it's through exercise of a certain type, like I just did archery before I came here, which clears my mind really well. Then The volume of the competing voices my head. Has been lowered enough that I can hear things, right?

1:04:07 And I'm wondering. if you have ways to do that for yourself, or if the signal's just so strong you don't need to do that. But I mean, you have a lot of projects and commitments, and I'm sure you have a million opportunities presented to you. When things get noisy. How do you help yourself to Here.

1:04:25 The inner feelings and voice. And so on. So that it doesn't get drowned out. Oof. Man.

1:04:33 Tim. We have to Um What been entrusted to us to own.

1:04:39 We really Have so much That is divinely bestowed upon us. And you wake up

1:04:48 Every day As a steward of it all. And then You get up and you have a choice to up. Pick up my phone.

1:04:56 Do I give my mainframe away to some other thoughts or ideas or visions, so Distraction, if you want to even call it that. It's a choice. Whatever. I don't really How did that

1:05:07 Set that. Intention. Prior to Land on the rest. What am I feeding?

1:05:14 Into my psyche. What am I watching? The I gate. What am I listening to? That's why I make music a certain way. 'Cause I know that for some.

1:05:24 That's gonna be a fueling Prerequisite for them. Mm, it's gonna be there. Fertile ground. Yeah, something powerful is going to emerge from that.

1:05:34 So for me It's like owning A car or You have this.

1:05:41 You have this thing. It's on lease. And to me that's it. I don't try to hear. As I was saying before.

1:05:48 It's like a dream if it comes. I don't Rely on that. And I have ways like for you archery. Connects.

1:05:59 You are primes you to be connected. I've strayed away from The desire to have This Mystical encounter.

1:06:08 At every turn. In order to prove The existence of Be Still and Know. This is for funny how that's come. When you evoke

1:06:16 These mantras I'm telling you, man. But That's not a real thing. That's not a real need for me.

1:06:27 I've been given. Now to own what I've been given also When it comes to how to be primed to hear. And to receive. The download.

1:06:37 It's found in the mundane things. And also the basic things. Do you drink enough water? Do you get enough sleep? Do you feel your heart with love?

1:06:47 When you can. Do you feel your mind? With good things, not even just Things that are of good report. Course is great.

1:06:56 But also Information. that will empower you with what you have. For me, I've studied music. as an empowering force for what I have.

1:07:05 I've studied many things, music being chief among them. That's going to Ignite me. Based on what I've been given. What ignites you.

1:07:14 How do you surround Yourself with all that. And then Okay, we have a sense of that to some degree. We have a lot of experts in that to some level. The flip is

1:07:24 How do you Cultivate giving it all away. All the time. How do you give it? The measure of your greatness is the measure of your generosity.

1:07:33 How do you give it? Now this is sharing the thing that you have on lease. This thing you've been endowed with. That's hard. 'Cause you can cultivate Portals of giving.

1:07:44 You can donate. You can give your time, which is the highest level of giving. In terms of intentionally giving. of your time is the highest level that you can go. But

1:07:56 Can you give of your time and your resources and your energy? In a way that's not regulated by a portal or something that you set up In advance. Can you live in a posture of giving?

1:08:09 Can you create A Generus temple within. And can you walk through the world? And live in a space.

1:08:18 Where You're unfettered and unbothered. By the need, but also You've preserved, you've Maintain the vessel.

1:08:26 So that you Don't completely Read yourself. You don't want

1:08:32 To be drained. There's many things that can drain you and pull from you. And there's darkness in the world. So then The discernment

1:08:40 comes with this sort of awareness. And there's spaces and time when I'm much, much more aligned with that and It's so clear. In so many moments. Of the deepest, most lasting

1:08:54 Impact and inspiration have happened when I'm in that space. But It's maintenance. It comes back to like It's so simple. It's so simple.

1:09:06 And we feel good when we do that. Because that's how the machine was made. We have joy when we do that. We feel purpose when we do that. It's like the machine was made a certain way. If you take care of the machine That you have.

1:09:19 It's gonna function a certain way. Yeah, you gotta do the maintenance. May not be sexy, but Machine needs maintenance. That thing need

1:09:27 Come on. Get it together. Come on, doctor. Yeah.

1:09:33 Just a few more questions. I'm having so much fun. I mean, I can go for six more hours, but if you could put something metaphorically speaking on a billboard. Right, so this isn't an advertisement. It's to get a message. Stealing a quote, anything out. To the world. Just pretend that hundreds of millions of people would see it, billions, who knows.

1:09:52 Could be anything. What might you put on that billboard? I don't know if I will take that opportunity. Tell me why. I don't feel called to do that.

1:10:01 And I also don't feel like we're in A time. Well anything Without Context.

1:10:08 Can be received Purely. Tell me more about that. This is a thread that I think I'm also pulling on in my own way. So I wanna hear more about what you mean by that. Everything is received now based upon

1:10:22 The context That we have defined Within different cultures. And all of our culture. Of humanity.

1:10:30 And the stereotypes And The Practices, the the social cultural practices and all of the ways we relate to each other and exist.

1:10:41 We've decided to go in the direction Of Believing. That I can look at you.

1:10:48 Or I can Here. Something A snippet of you. Fragment.

1:10:54 A fragment of Tim. Is all I need. To understand. And whereas

1:11:01 There's a Proliferation of Data And we're more connected now than we've ever been. But we're not

1:11:08 Where More susceptible to deception as well. And we Express and connect.

1:11:15 In those ways. In lieu of going deeper. And a billboard. And media and all these expressions.

1:11:23 Which is why I love this. Because It allows for that. But all these other forms that we've Propped up as primary.

1:11:31 Separate us from depth. Yeah, it's the the surface level that doesn't lead to the deeper levels, it prevents. Us from getting to the deeper levels in a sense. So you don't want a traffic in that anymore.

1:11:45 Oh no. In any way. The reason I started this Podcast ten plus years ago now. was to be able to get into the deep water. Yeah. To have the space for that.

1:11:56 And hopefully at the time I didn't know, but attract a listenership. Who also Felt. Yeah.

1:12:03 thirst for the subtleties that you can only touch upon. and the holistic edges of a person or a topic that you can only get access to. When you have the space. When you have the time. So

1:12:17 I resonate. A lot with that. Sometimes things take Multiple listens, multiple. Exposure if you feel something from something.

1:12:26 That's your first Signal. The emotional connection. Something even if you don't understand why. something relates to something you experienced, or something that you heard.

1:12:36 You want You aspire to Has been revealed as Clues, uh Tip so

1:12:42 Some vision. Right. That's how you know that there's many, many, many more layers. There. For you. Yeah totally.

1:12:50 I was just thinking as you were saying that of this book that I've read so many times called Awareness by Anthony DeMello. I think the subtitle is The Promises and Perils of Reality. In any case. A really fun book, very short, and I've read it on Kindle, but I've also read it

1:13:08 And what strikes me is each time I read it, because I have one copy with highlights over time. I highlight different things. Whenever I go back because I am a different person in a different situation or A developing

1:13:24 With different feelings about things. And it's just remarkable. How each pass Reads like a new book almost.

1:13:36 This is the thing that I've been thinking about. For years. This idea that As people. Whether creative or not, but It applies to the creative.

1:13:46 Obviously. We only have Two Maybe three. Ideas.

1:13:53 in life. We have two Ideas. That we are constantly Refining.

1:14:01 Recreating Presenting. Refining. Recreating. Presenting.

1:14:08 And it's Your life's Idea set. Then if that's the case. How much and I ask you this because I wanna know if you

1:14:20 Made a list. Of the five books or the five things or five places. 'Cause I love your list. This inspired me. What

1:14:29 Are the five things that you know you could possess in this lifetime. If you had to wipe everything else away. And the only knowledge and the only Inspiration only experience. The only everything

1:14:43 That you could draw from Were Of this five. 'Cause I'm reaching a point. Where

1:14:50 That's almost something that I'm willing to live by. Instead of the pursuit of more Knowledge. more understanding, more Broad.

1:15:01 vision and connectivity. How do I go as deep As I can. Within A handful of things.

1:15:09 That are for me. And leave the rest. Yeah. Which is a radical like So for you.

1:15:17 If you were to play that game, what are the five Maybe maybe you should have a podcast. Maybe that's your next I will I will give it a shot and then I want to ask you the same thing because what's a cool twist on The question is it's not just books, documentaries. People.

1:15:35 But Experiences or beliefs. They could be in the list. Then it gets really interesting. Right? Yes. Then it gets super interesting. No. Now you have to own it. So for me, I was thinking as you were talking This is rough draft, right? Yeah, of course. I totally get it. It's changing every other day. But but what comes to mind for me was number one Everything's gonna be okay.

1:16:04 I think from a very young age I've just been hyper vigilant, had a lot of bad things happen to me as a kid. So my system has always been oriented towards things are not okay and they are not gonna be okay. So you have to be constantly scanning your environment, scanning people for threats, et cetera. So number one would just be Everything's gonna be okay. Mm-hmm.

1:16:22 Number two would be It's all about relationships. The relationships are what matter. Friends, family. That's it. That's it. And also your relationship with yourself, but honestly I feel like

1:16:32 I best develop myself in relationship. So I pay attention to The question of do I like the version of myself that I am when I'm with this person? So the relationships.

1:16:45 Being everything. Number three, this one We could dig into it if we want, but I would say death isn't the end, so don't be afraid of it. That might require some explanation. But I would say don't spend your whole life afraid of death.

1:16:58 That'd be number three. That one got a lot of meat on the bone. Yeah, there's a lot of meat on the bone there. And

1:17:08 I would say Honestly, those are the top three that immediately come to mind. What I might say is For me personally. Don't be afraid of your sensitivity.

1:17:19 It can be hard, but it's a gift. The instrumentation, like my sight, my hearing, it's all very, very, very sensitive. So being in a place like New York City can be completely overwhelming. Being at a dinner party with eight people can be really overwhelming. So Interestingly. So I very rarely go to concerts, but when I attended your event, it resonated differently because It wasn't

1:17:40 unidirectional. It was not the sage on the stage, or the performer on the stage. inflicting sound on the audience. It was a collective experiment. And there's a lot of emergent Participation and interaction which

1:17:56 changed how my senses metabolize the whole thing, which is very interesting. Wow. So I didn't feel any overwhelm at all. at that event. But on a pure decibel level, it wasn't overwhelming, but you're in a concert, right? And it's it's a cozy venue. Oh you feel it. So that I would probably talk to myself about the sensitivity. 'Cause I've viewed it as a liability for a long time, but I think there are different ways to frame it.

1:18:19 That's what comes to mind for me. What about What about for you? Man. Wow. You might I could play my answer.

1:18:28 Yeah, let's do that. Because it's In abstract form, but Rapidly approaching clarity. Let's do it.

1:18:37 Yeah. Absolutely, a hundred percent. Where are we gonna do that over here? Yeah. I mean

1:18:42 Is that okay if we Yeah, we got the lava mics on. We can just wander over. Oh, we don't need okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's give it a shot. I'm excited about this. So see. I do these concerts. Oh I call them streams. It's like stream of consciousness.

1:19:32 Completely improved. Spontaneous composition, right? I'll sit at the piano. And without any sheet music or any preparation. I will play.

1:19:45 Ninety minutes, two hours. And It really invites the audience to feel This Wave.

1:19:55 It's akin to a collective chant. And we're We're in spaces that We're discovering together. Mm.

1:20:05 At the PN I was just gonna Stream for a minute. You, yeah. That's beautiful, man.

1:22:27 Beautiful to be with your share. Yeah, likewise. Yeah, I like your answer. Yeah. What does that feel like to you to do that? What is the felt sense?

1:22:39 Feels like you A travelling You're moving. And your hand is telling you This is what I wanna play.

1:22:54 And as you play it. You're seeing All of the colors and you're hearing the sound it Starts to tell you Now I wanna go here.

1:23:10 Yeah. Sometimes is telling you things that you don't know. You're not familiar. But it's going to anyway. And that's the biggest

1:23:25 different. Because it's telling you something you haven't practiced, you don't know if you can actually play. You don't know if you actually will make it. Why do you think it takes you there? It's the truest expression.

1:23:44 The moment calls for what it calls for. And you can't really dictate. What the moment calls for based on your preparation. Yeah, or your preference. Your preferences

1:24:00 It's it's Because it's your preference is probably not true. Yeah. That makes sense to me. So it truly is music that is channeled from

1:24:15 It's channel to you. for everyone in that moment never to happen again. Yeah. Yeah.

1:24:25 Thank you so much. Wow. Yes, uh

1:24:34 Yes, sir. You know? Yeah. So glad we did this. This is amazing, man, to have the piano here like this. I didn't know you were gonna have this. I never have you done that. I haven't heard that before with the piano. The only time we ever had a piano make a guest appearance, very different, was

1:24:53 Two thousand Let me get this right. Fifteen? Long time ago I interviewed Jamie Fox at his house. Ah yeah! He got on the piano for a second. It was very short.

1:25:08 but totally different context. Totally different context. 'cause there's the there's the instrument. Then there's the vessel, then there's the communication between the two. And that's the that's that's the one and only time that Piano and my recollection has made an appearance in 750 episodes.

1:25:28 This is a first. Yeah. Yeah. And that's amazing.

1:25:42 Yeah. I have to ask you because I f I number one, I'm excited about it. We can do it here. I don't I don't need to sit down. But Beethoven Blues. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, the blues. I am excited about this. Yes, it's gonna be amazing. Especially after our conversation. Even more so. Wow. And after spending a little more time hanging out. It's been a minute. Yeah. Because because now I'm thinking about the music as

1:26:08 Something that I can Ingest something that I can Let feed me. Yes. Inspire in the sense of breathing in. Mm-hmm. That's right. So could you say a bit more about how that came to be? You know, the idea is something that I

1:26:25 feel uniquely positioned to do is hearing Beethoven's music. And not just playing it as it says, you know, on the score. but being in conversation with Beethoven and extending his music. So As

1:26:39 We talked about, you know, idea of streams, this sort of spontaneous composition. If you were to take Beethoven's music And exist within the music. As if you were

1:26:53 Co composing it with him. And adding all these elements that Many of which All of which existed. After

1:27:04 His time on earth. So you have Things. Like Flamenco music or gospel music.

1:27:12 So jazz music. Primarily. Is The Not just musical innovation.

1:27:27 of the twentieth century. But and innovation of human expression and spirituality. Could you say a little bit more about that? Because I listen to blues. Yes. But I want to understand why you feel that way about it.

1:27:43 And I it's not that I disagree, but I wanna understand the magnitude. Of what you're saying. Yes. Yes. Blues is a form of music.

1:27:52 It's also a form. It's a twelve bar form. It's a sound. It's a style. It's an inflection.

1:28:01 You can sound like the blues without playing the blues. If you moan or you cry the instrument Whales.

1:28:17 It's something that is about our existence in the human condition. And the blues is an allegory. for the human condition in sound. It's a musical allegory.

1:28:29 That exists. Within the context of a cultural movement. So that's something that has not happened. and has existed before it had a name. So for s for you to find things like that in the world.

1:28:43 That are foundational to our existence. And then to figure out How do I name them? And identify them so then they can be shared.

1:28:55 And then furthermore How do you create a whole system? That Not only becomes its own

1:29:03 form of musical engagement, social cultural engagement, their dances, their Blues rituals. juke joints, stomps, boogie woogie. All this That we've

1:29:13 grown accustomed to. Now I can also implement that into other spaces of music. Уж биком здесь демократик експресін. Of humanity. So

1:29:25 What I started to think about with the blues is There are forms of music that express that aspect of the human condition and that That pathos. But didn't have

1:29:36 all of the language that we have to acutely express it and also include The range of cultural diasporic reality that has existed since. So now We can take that.

1:29:52 And Inject. These other forms of music, these other expressions with something that's so profound and so deep and so rooted. So human. It's an opportunity.

1:30:06 It's opportunity of a lifetime for an artist. Um and the blues provides that. Now the one other thing in the technical realm. The blues is simple. And it's complex. The blues is generally three chords.

1:30:18 But you don't always have to be playing those three chords to be playing the blues. Is spiritual. But it's also very much scientific. So if you take these five notes. That's the pentatonic scale.

1:30:34 That's the sound of the blues, the pentatonic scale, though. In This form. has existed in music. Since the beginning.

1:30:43 Gregorian chants, indigenous folk music. Music. of drum circles in West Africa, in Ghana, all the different sounds of Appalachian. Eastern music, you've heard the sound.

1:30:58 You hear this sound. In every culture. Since the beginning. Now if you add

1:31:11 That's what we call the blue scale. The blues is in the sound of the pentatonic scale. That In and of itself

1:31:20 has a perfect symmetry. The blue note is the expression that Our early ancestors in this country. Create it to

1:31:33 Add the sense of The American experience. To this scale. It's more than scale. They added this

1:31:42 To exemplify the specificity of America. and the experience of American. In all different ways you can play the blues even without playing the scale, because the thing about The blues. Inflection.

1:31:58 is that if you can capture that blues inflection You can find melodies that have the blues. You can find Vo voices that have the blues. You can find rhythms that have the blues, mainly the shuffle rhythm. Which is something that came from Africa.

1:32:13 And is the Marriage of six eight over two. And a three beat combined at the same time.

1:32:20 And that evolved into the American shelf rhythm. So all of these things are so interconnected and so sophisticated. So intricate. In the blues

1:32:32 After all that You can sit on a porch or barroom or juke joint. And anybody can sing it. And it's always Two verses and an answer.

1:32:45 The thrill is gone. The thrill is gone away. The thriller's gone. The thrill is gone away. Finish it for me.

1:32:55 Oh No no I'm just saying that's how simple it was codified. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the architecture, like the basic under girding sort of eye beams of the architecture. Are quite simple, but the way that it can be applied. It's just Beyond counting, right? It's the thing that existed in the air.

1:33:16 In the thing that we've all felt within. And it took this American experiment. for it to emerge into a form. Yeah. That makes sense.

1:33:26 Yeah, I mean it's a combination of like Discovering fire, right? This thing that has always been there. that we now have a form for. And it's also something very elemental that can be wielded in a million different ways. And as You have different cultural influences, you have different combinations of people.

1:33:44 newer and newer and newer ways of applying it emerge. We've heard it in rock and roll bass lines our whole life, the old You know, just thinking about all of the ways That I've heard the blues before even really understanding that it's so ubiquitous.

1:34:02 You know what I mean? I'm thinking we here in Jimmy Hendry studio. That's the pentatonic girl. There's just so much that you would You you can listen to so much.

1:34:17 And understand it. So when I took Beethoven I was thinking If you put that on it. Mm-hmm. Beethoven in the Congo. One, two, three, one.

1:34:43 Two one to that You know what I mean? I do. And then you find the blues is a On the piano when I was a kid. Mm that specific.

1:35:39 Segment. Just activated, like ratatouille style. When Anton ego flashes back to being a kid. That was wild. It's incredible what music does. I mean I'm not a musician, but it's so Igniting. To use that word. It's just an incredible key that unlocks.

1:35:58 These songs too are so Deeply connected to us. Beethoven wrote songs we're listening to these compositions, these melodies, themes, all these things we've heard for years and years over generations. So it it ignites People's love not just for music.

1:36:15 but brings them back to moments in their life, experiences in their life. And that's what this album, this music is generally. About the concept of Beethoven blues. But also about The humanity that It will bring

1:36:29 people together, bring somebody back to the instrument who stepped away for many years. Kids who are growing up who Maybe I don't see myself. in classical music, but Now I see oh there's a

1:36:42 I see something that was always there, like the blues. Can bring it out. But It just hadn't been presented to me in that way.

1:36:49 Mm-hmm. And I mean what comes to mind as an image for me also is you have these Various

1:36:57 Tributaries of music that have in some ways separated out. I'm not sure I'm using the right geological term here is but they've sort of separated and flowed out into different fingers. And what you seem to have done starting, maybe not starting, but certainly at Juilliard, especially afterwards, is you've sort of brought these flows back together in a way that they can intermingle which gives people permission.

1:37:21 to make something that is uniquely theirs. To live, baby! To live. Yeah. Ha ha ha ha.

1:37:30 That's it. That's it. It's not just the music. It's not about the music. It's about the music and more. Wow. He played it. I like doing this, these these harmonies like imagine if you

1:37:49 There's a version on the album that goes for 20 minutes. Mm. And it makes this into a It's this healing trance, it's like a meditation. put this album on repeat and listen to it a thousand times.

1:39:14 Oh man. Twenty minutes of that? I mean That feels like That feels like Taken the hypotenuse to catharsis.

1:39:28 Mm. Yes. That's that's it. That's the idea. Yeah. Feel very privileged to even watch you do that.

1:39:39 Brother, thank you. I'm grateful for you building this. Space. And allowing for folks to come in. And share. Who they are and what they

1:39:49 have to offer. And then it become in this feedback loop. Of us all growing. Of us all learning and growing together. That's you, man. Thank you for that.

1:40:00 That's powerful stuff. Thank you. I love doing it. How did this end up being a job? Crazy. Blessing of life, right? John Batiste, John Battiste.com, Beethoven Blues, go get it, everybody. Hey guys, this is Tim again, just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week.

1:40:43 It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcasts. guests and these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun again it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, Just go to Tim.blog slash Friday. Type that into your browser. Tim dot blog slash. Friday, drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.

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