La Colombe Coffee Roasters: Todd Carmichael and J.P. Iberti. A Brotherhood Built on Coffee (2020)

0:00 Uh Hey everyone and happy new year. So this week we're running one of our favorite episodes. It's the story of La Colombe coffee, and this episode is special because you'll hear a bit of an HIBT crossover. When the company's investors wanted to take the brand in a different direction, Lakalom was saved by Hamdi Ulekia of Chabani, who was also a past guest on the show. We first aired this episode back in 2020, and since then, the story has kept evolving. Chabani has gone on to acquire Lakalom outright. And today you can find their coffee, cold brew, and canned lattes in grocery stores all over the country. Anyway, it's a great episode, and I hope you enjoy it. We started the old investor

0:52 Discussions. And we landed on one. We did the deal. And that lasted fifty-two days. to the first board meeting I said, Okay

1:01 I believe that coal brew is going to be a thing and Lockalom needs to be the Father of it. And they said Nah. We don't want to do that.

1:10 What they want to do. They wanted us to build two hundred cafes. So I just I said, We're out of here. We're gonna buy you out.

1:24 Welcome to How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements. Build. I'm Guy Raz and on the show today. How two part-time baristas in Seattle became best friends. Move to Philadelphia.

1:43 Went on to pioneer the specialty coffee movement in the US? Founding La Calom Coffee Roasters. Tell me if this sounds familiar to you. You're in your early twenties and you don't really know what you want to be when you grow up. And one day, you're hanging out with your best friend, maybe sharing a meal or a drink in their apartment or at a dive bar, and then one of you says, Hey, you and I, we should totally start something together because we are an awesome team. Like a record store or a beer bar or a podcast company. Whatever it is, you both get really excited and start coming up with all kinds of ideas. The type of beer you'll serve, the kinds of records you'll play in the store, the podcasts you'll make. You can't stop thinking about it. But then

2:35 A few months later, reality tends to kick in. You get a job offer with health benefits, your friend gets into a relationship with someone who wants to move across the country, and the whole idea fades away. Have you been there? I have. So have Todd Carmichael and J.P. E. Bertie. Except, in their case, it didn't fade away. Back in the late 1980s, Todd and JP dreamed of starting a specialty coffee shop. Well, it took a while, but Eventually.

3:10 They opened it up. Black along. No. This happened to be around the same time that two other coffee companies were starting up, one in Chicago called Intelligentsia, the other in North Carolina called Counterculture.

3:25 And along with La Colombe. These three coffee brands came to be known as pioneers in the so-called third wave coffee movement in the US. The first wave was instant coffee and diner coffee, basically coffee that was cheap and generic, that people drank a lot of after World War II. Then, in the 1970s and 80s, places like Pete's Coffee and later Starbucks introduced Americans to the second wave, coffee with a more sophisticated flavor profile and European style drinks like espresso's and lattes. And the third wave? Well, it basically defines what most high-end coffee shops are today. Places that source high quality beans directly from farms, often roast the beans themselves, and have highly trained baristas pulling your espresso drinks. Lacalome started out as a one shop in a run down part of Philadelphia.

4:23 Today, you can find its cold brew cans in tons of convenience stores across the US, and the company is now valued at around a billion dollars. But to get there was a long, slow grind. As you will hear them explain. JP Aberti, the JP stands for Jean Philippe. was born in southern France.

4:45 His dad ran a business supplying fresh meat and produce to restaurants. But grew up literally and figuratively a world away. Eastern Washington state. And at home.

4:58 A lot of times. His mom struggled to put food on the table. My father left just as I was born. My parents are both bipolar. It's so

5:10 That kind of really dictated Uh a lot of their lives. Mm. But my father did kinda come in and out. As

5:17 Folks who struggle with their minds do. But my mother was really the constant. What kind of jobs did your mom do to support the family? Well first She couldn't maintain an office job for very long.

5:31 And what was left for her was either typing pool, but A typing pool is very difficult for a bipolar person because they're so inconsistent. You know, they could work for four straight days, but then they could not show up for two, right? And so It became cocktail waitressed. Okay.

5:47 And usually not in the The glamorous places. She was a cocktail waitress in like truck stop. Kind of places.

5:55 So you were mainly raised by just your mom and presumably not a whole lot of financial security as a kid? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They I guess they call that Food insecure? We just called it kind of hungry back then. And I had three sisters as well.

6:09 Mm-hmm. And so we kind of took care of each other. And I knew I needed to leave my hometown. I just didn't know how to do it. I had a globe that my grandfather gave me and I studied it and studied it and studied it. Yeah. And I started these dreams. And they weren't monetary. It was more like I wanted to live. I wanted to live a life.

6:28 And I knew it couldn't happen there. What did you do for money to pay for your own like your car and whatever like what did you do how did you uh did you have like side businesses as a kid? Yeah, I did lots of different things. So I had one, my main gig was farming. Then I had side gigs. I'm really good with my hands. I can fix things. And so I started uh buying equipment. And refurbishing it and selling it.

6:50 It started with lawnmowers and it got all the way to large equipment. So there was always this side gig going on. And then the main job was Harvest. You you got into um distant running, like cross country, I guess, in high school and

7:04 I guess you must have been a pretty good runner, i is that right? Yeah, I was uh state champion team we won two or three years in a row. I was in top ten and And five thousand and then I got a full scholarship to the University of Washington. Wow. And Bear in mind I mean the

7:20 So poor kids don't really get great educations for lots of reasons. One is that you just keep moving a lot, right? So by the time I got into the University of Washington, I still I didn't know how to Add fractions. I mean I didn't know anything about the world. I didn't know nothing. And so there was this big piece. Oh.

7:35 make up that happened. Once I was able to leave and start real school. So I didn't really start s School, school until I got into University of Washington. But it sounds like you were like really interested in learning. I mean, maybe school is difficult for you, but it sounds like you really actually Applies yourself.

7:53 Oh yeah, so bipolar disorder really takes hold of you in your early twenties, right? And You know, I've seen it in my family, and so I was against a ticking time bomb. You thought you you it was just a matter of time before you were diagnosed. Yeah.

8:07 I was afraid it was coming. Yeah. So I wanted to get as much in my brain before that happened. as possible. So I was under a time constraint, I thought. I remember thinking that. And then I think the desire to to apply myself in school that way too was just absolute fear. Okay.

8:24 Just the fear of failing and the fear of being the first to go and not being making it through or I don't wanna be poor. Yeah. I just deep fear. Of being in a trailer.

8:35 And it was real to me. So nineteen eighty two, you are in Seattle studying at the University of Washington. And you also have a part time job, right? I guess at the time. This is this is this is Seattle before like Sub Pop and Starbucks and Microsoft. I mean they're they were sort of there, but it's still like early eighties Seattle, totally different place than it is today.

8:58 Um and you got you actually got a job at Starbucks, right? That's right. So, you know, when I showed up, all I really knew how to do well is fix Motors.

9:08 And harvest. I couldn't really work where other students were working. And I looked into a warehouse, you know, just right off the bus line that would take me to school. And there were these guys uh dragging these grain sacks around. And I thought I could

9:24 That's grain work. I could totally do grain work. I could hump sacks all day long. So I got the gig and when I went inside You know, the names on the bags were way different than I expected. You know, they were Like Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, Panama. And I realized right then this was

9:41 Raw coffee. And you probably knew nothing about coffee, I'm assuming. I knew zero. You know, I knew that You know, for my grandfather drank instant coffee. That's just about all, you know. And but what I liked about it

9:52 Was not only was it a gig But The names. That's the world that I had dreamt of. That these bags actually came from those places.

10:03 was just mesmerizing to me. Alright, so you get a job, um, at this warehouse moving sacks of beans, right? what happens? I mean do you Like, I'm trying to figure out how you go from hauling bags coffee at the warehouse to getting really interested in coffee. Well, what I really wanted to do, and this probably exposes the kid in me.

10:24 But I wanted to be a bar E Star. I wanted to be The cool kit. Right? And Starbucks wouldn't let me do it.

10:32 You know, come on, I mean I I was a flannel wearing farm boy, you know, I cut my own hair, you know, it's just it was just I probably didn't present as well as they'd like. And so I I changed Teams. I went over to a place called Espresso Roma. And they gave me a shot at it. Then I became this barista.

10:52 And and did you learn how to roast coffee? Not I mean, I did, but not to a degree that I would call it skillful. Not like JP. I mean JP's the master of that, you know. Alright, so this is nineteen eighty two, eighty three, you're you're working in the coffee place, you're a student at the University of Washington, um JP Tell me about where where you grew up. You you are f originally from France? That's right. I uh I grew up um

11:17 In Nice in the south of France. Uh-huh. My dad was a purveyor of fruit and vegetable. He started a business and uh became pretty successful. And my mom was a homemaker.

11:29 So I had um had a good uprising. My I have two older sister. They basically were out of the house when when I was growing up. And I think my parents were over Having children when they

11:43 When I was growing up. Um, I guess as a kid you were interested in in aviation flight. Is that w is that true? I mean is that Yeah, that's uh from you know I I wanted to be a pilot. I was fascinating by you know Flying an airplane.

11:57 And uh my sister Married. An American guide. From Seattle. So that was the connection to the North West. So you knew about Seattle from him and then And then I I read that you basically w after high school went to Seattle to to go to flight school, right?

12:15 That's right. I I did a lot of my flying out of uh Boeing Field. In Seattle. And um I went to a little cafe called Torrefacian Italia, which was in Pine Square. first generation Italian family and the basically we became really friend and one day they they offered me the job

12:35 And I took it, I became a barista. Okay, so you are in flight school. and get this job at this this coffee shop, this coffee bar in Pioneer Square in Seattle. And Todd, how did you Like how did you meet J P? Was it through the coffee shop somehow? So

12:49 First. I'm hearing these rumors that this French guy is working for T I. We called it twenty five City Italian's T I. And how did you how did you hear we how why would you have even heard that rumor? Because you gotta imagine that there's maybe six cafes in all of Seattle. Oh, I see, okay. And to be a barista by then and to be on coffee was like being like a DJ. You know, you were known. Yeah.

13:13 And so T I was like, I have to say it's the was at that time was the best coffee roasting company in the United States of America, hands down. That little shop in Pioneer Square. Oh my god, yeah. Umberto was a very famous roaster in Italy, Numbria, before he even started roasting in Seattle. So he came in with like top shelf knowledge that no one really had access to. And so there's this rumor this French guy is is around. And there's this new sound that was happening at the time, right? That they called was called grunge, right? Yep.

13:44 And there was a band called Green River that later would become Pearl Jam, right? Sure. So there was this little venue called Oxford. And they put up the stage and this band called Green River was gonna come on. And so you can imagine the crowd and they they didn't serve Like beer in a glass. They sort served reinier beer in a can. Yeah. And I'm standing at the bar, solo.

14:06 And This guy walks in. He's got a gold, uh like looks I think it's silk vest over a white puffy sleeve shirt. And it's this French guy. And he actually reaches over the bar and says May I have a champagne, please? So he orders the champagne.

14:23 And I said, Are you this Jean Pierre guy? And he goes, Jean Philippe. And I was like, Okay, Jean Philippe, you rose for Tia. He goes, Yeah. And then the next question is, he goes, Do you have a stove? I said, Yeah, I've a stove and he goes. Can I use it? And I'm you know, I'm still I have

14:38 very little money and I go, nah, you could use it any time as long as you cook for two. I thought I could get some free food out of this. And that's how we met. And literally f Thursday, Friday, Saturday night. Every week for the next three years he cooked dinner at my house.

14:52 So so JP, you is is that your recollection of what happened? Yeah, I'm not sure about the gold vest. You know, I'm looking back in in yeah, I'm not sure I ever owned one of these, but it might have had some Yeah. So you you you met Todd and and you ask him if he had a stove, like a cooking stove? Like didn't you have an apartment where you lived that had a stove?

15:16 Uh well I lived on campus and and it was an electric stove, so it wasn't that great and um You know, until I left France I didn't realize how food was important. to me, you know, and um Eighty seven was a different time in America. I mean coffee was getting here and getting good. But you know, things like bread

15:38 When not We were not where we are today. You know, it was a different world back then. So food was important and I wanted uh I wanted to eat. So we you know, we probably talked about food and you know Back and forth and the question was yeah, you you have Gastov. And that's really the kind of the beginning of your friendship?

15:56 Yeah, and then from there we would We would eat. And we would play cards. We would drink whiskey sometimes, remember J P or like really cheap wine. Yeah.

16:06 About The world's best coffee company. start to hang out and you start to say, Hey, we should Maybe one day open our own place. Yeah it was

16:18 With ideas like Why don't we go directly to the farm? That's what your father did.

16:26 And I know as working from a farm that if you take the time to come to our farm, you would get the best stuff. So we would talk about This whole concept that later on became coffee sourcing or farm to table. And then Later on we just made it. But meantime, JP, you are still studying to be a pilot.

16:45 I was, but it was you know, it was a good escape. To dream you know, about about starting a business. And I was not committed. at this time. You know, for for me it was still just A dream. Yeah. You were just kinda spitballing ideas people. Yeah, two two young guys just hanging out talking about, you know, wouldn't it be cool if we did this? Wouldn't it be cool if we did with that. Meantime, I'm Todd, you have graduated

17:08 from the University of Washington. Mm. You were was that what you were doing, working at the coffee place? Was that how you were making your living? No, um so I graduated, I'd applied for and got into business school. And so then I I got a job as a tax consultant. For a company called Ernst and Winnie at the time. It was it one of the big eight accounting firms?

17:29 I was wearing a suit. I had a leather lunch box and Everything. And um you do that job for a year. From what I understand, and then you took off, you left the US. Yeah. Tell me the story. Why did you leave the US? Where well where'd you go and why?

17:42 Well, I mean the why is is multifaceted. You know, part of it was It was becoming clear to me that I have a Furnace in my brain, right? So

17:54 That I inherited certain traits from my parents. And that That sort of environment wasn't safe for me. The environment of working in an office. Yeah.

18:04 I had a lot of confidence in my skill set. I had a lot of confidence in myself. It's not that. It's just that I needed to go and find a place That I could fit. Right. I knew I needed to put together ninety five thousand dollars so I could start this coffee company with my best friend. Wait, so be so you were totally committed to this idea. You really wanted to start a coffee company. with JP.

18:27 And JP when Todd said, Hey, I'm gonna go overseas,'cause you he went to Europe, and then I'm gonna come back and we're gonna start this business, did you take that seriously or did you think, uh, okay, have fun? Yeah, I mean You know, this is closer to eighty nine ninety. At that point I moved in. working in the afternoon in a production warehouse. So, you know, I was really learning the whole thing about, you know, producing coffee but also serving coffee. And I really liked what I was doing. So you know, idea in mind The dream.

18:59 Own place. Sure. But um Yeah, and Todd ended up going to the south of France. which uh where I'm from. So, you know, y I connected him with all my friend people I grew up with and It was um And I remember JP you took that flight, we flew together, remember?

19:17 Yeah. You both flew to Europe together that first time you went out. Yeah, he accompanied me and then he spent a a week or two with his family and then he flew back and I stayed. But when you were in France, uh you did not speak French going in there. You just like landed there and and what did you start to do to earn a living? Well, right away it was Pretty simple. I took a train into Monte Carlo and I interviewed and got jobs. I mean accounting jobs right away. Because most of'em are like shipping companies and a lot of companies that are there to avoid tax, so they're not really part of the culture.

19:47 And so you know the operating language is is English. Sure. And uh I did a lot of odd jobs, that's for sure. Consulting, tax work, accounting. No job too big, too small kind of thing. Yeah. I found a little boat.

20:01 I reconditioned it and I lived on it. So basically I always kind of embrace the idea that You know, you could save money by living in poverty, so don't change that, right? And JP what did you do for those three years? Just continue to work at the coffee place and study um aviation?

20:17 Yeah, so by I I graduated in nineteen ninety. So I became a flight instructor And I really, really worked a lot in coffee. I mean we were getting uh opening more stores, getting busier and busier and the and the business was really blooming. So I was becoming a big part of of Torre Fession Italia. And that was really it really became

20:38 My center. Hm. coffee, my coffee profession just took over. This one I realized Hey, this is gonna be my career. You know, my sander was the university in flying for a long time. And then it shifted.

20:51 So so Todd, um while you were in Europe, I guess You actually wrote down a a business plan while you were there, right? For for this this idea of a coffee company that that you'd been dreaming about. Yes. By hand, with with a pen. So okay, so you sat down and what what was the sort of the rough outline of the business plan? Like what what was it gonna be? What was it a coffee shop that sells coffee and what else? Well

21:15 The idea and it was both JP and I've really just written down is that We were comfortable being purveyors. And we want to pervey to the very best of the best of the best. We had a deep deep belief that there would be this restaurant.

21:32 Renaissance. In America, uh there was gonna be this huge inflow of French and Italian high level cuisine. And that the coffee in America wasn't going to accommodate it. Coffee in America was just dedicated to you know, fast to go business, Starbucks style.

21:48 that they weren't bringing it to the culinary level. And we we were that company. We wanted to be And We would work directly With the farms, we would work directly with the chefs.

22:00 That we would bring coffee to a whole new level. That it's not just like salt and pepper on the table, but it'd be we give it a name, a f a place, uh An identity. In your mind, JP, do you think this guy's gonna come back? Or or was that I I'm just tryna I'm trying to f'cause it sounds like Todd, you really had a very clear plan. Like you had this plan. You knew you were gonna do this one day. Were you kinda JP were you just sort of waiting for this to happen? I knew you were serious.

22:26 You know, but I didn't say yes and I didn't say no, right. You know, I knew a lot about the kitchens. I knew a lot about chefs, I knew a lot about coffee and Tada had the business and The coffee experience as well and It was just clear. It was you know, I knew that once we both said hey

22:44 Let's do this. It was gonna be a success. Huh. Alright, so Todd, after three years, you've saved enough money. Did you just like move back to Seattle and and say to JP Hey, let's do this. Like w was he was he ready to to jump right back in with you?

23:00 So I I didn't move back to Seattle, I flew and I squatted in his closet. In JP's closet. Yeah, he had a closet that was big enough for For me to lay in. And I told him I wasn't gonna leave until he agreed, although I did respect how hard that would be on him.

23:17 We had a long conversation. I could feel that he was leaning. Because let's get real, you know There could be no lock alone without GP. There could be no Todd without GP. And I don't think there could be A J P without you know, it it's like it's the these are the key ingredients. And so J P ha it took you some convincing how how long do you think it took you before you said, All right, uh I'm in

23:40 Well, I think it was a process, you know, it probably took me the whole three years to get there. The three years while Todd was away. Yeah, and really seeing you know, and something happened with Torfession Italia in nineteen ninety three. It all came to a uh crossroad and Toyota Itali was sold and um It was a strange time, you know, I was like, Oh man, this is the end.

24:03 You know, Umberto is gonna be gone. All the people that you know are like family to me are gonna be gone. So then at that moment I knew that if I wanted to stay in coffee I had to do something. Right. I mean our friendship was already, you know, a brotherhood, you know, and and it was clear that I was not gonna do something on my own. When we come back in just a moment, Todd and JP walk into one of the top restaurants in the country uninvited and walk out.

24:33 With their first account. Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So it's 1993, and JP and Todd have decided to start their own coffee business. But the first thing they need is a name. And JP finds inspiration. In his hometown.

25:08 I come from a little town called Saint Paul de Vance, who is very well known for the culture that. Um a lot of painters, a lot of writers spend time there, you know, big name Picasso Matisse. Paint it there and there and there's a little Bed and breakfast that became really famous because the artists used to stay there and instead of paying women bored, they just left sketches.

25:31 And it's called La Colombe d'or, and and I have a connection to it because you know it was one of my father account, you know, we he served fruit and vegetable there, but we also knew the family very well. The family that founded it were friends. And you know, I ended up having a summer job there when I was thirteen, fourteen, you know, washing dishes. And you know. So I think the inspiration of the of the name is connected to the place But it's also the symbol. What

26:00 Uh La Colombez, you know, internationally'cause Colomb means uh it it means dove, right? The dogs. Yeah. And and so that that sort of Evoking that kind of idea, the the la Colombe. Was Mm-hmm. Was the idea behind it, well.

26:15 So here's the amazing thing. This is Nineteen ninety three. Юрбак і Сієтл, Сіятл із епіцентр. of US coffee culture at this point. I mean this is it is ground zero for the explosion of coffee in America. And you guys are

26:31 In Seattle. I mean we would make Total perfect business sense to open up In Seattle at that point. But instead you start

26:39 You start looking at cities on the east coast and you end up in Philadelphia. What why Philadelphia? S so Uh Ph Philip was a different place then. But we we ended up walking the city, and it's a beautiful city architecturally.

26:57 the way it's laid out is a is an amazing city. You know, and being European and walking and cycling everywhere, I still use my bicycle to go to work. It just, you know, for me the fact that We could walk anywhere was just like This is definitely making the top of the chart right now. And there was huge opportunity in term of getting production space, warehouse space, just because the city was

27:21 Probably at the bottom. So the two main beautiful, you know, roads in the city right now is walnut and chestnut. They were Pretty much closed down. There were no cafes in the city. You know, it's a city of a million some people, and there wasn't one cup of coffee.

27:35 And so I uh J P and I we went and I said, Hey, let's remember JP we sat and we had some beers together. Mm-hmm. And I chose to interpret Everything that we'd seen this way. that if you're gonna take an elevator ride and you're looking to get altitude, you want to get in on the ground floor. And that Philadelphia was displaying that it is here on the ground floor and it can't stay this way and will not stay this way.

27:59 Th this was either of you ever been to Philadelphia at that point? Never. You've never been there. Never. Mm. I mean we saw great opportunities in Philadelphia, you know, we saw we saw a city with great bones.

28:12 And it was it was fine for what we wanted to do, that the city specially after send down. There was nobody in the streets. But you know, it didn't really matter because her her idea was to be purveyors and to serve the kitchen. So it didn't really matter. Yeah. You know, and what thing that was important is at the time Le Becfin was voted which is a Philadelphia restaurant was voted number one restaurant in the country. Chef on the Yeah. And also the proximity to New York City, yeah.

28:43 And and also, presumably Philadelphia was cheap. Very. Insanely so. So um so you find a location

28:51 on Rittenhouse Square, which is the probably the most famous place now in Philadelphia today, one of them. What was it? It was like a a small storefront that you found? It was actually two. Uh, you know, this area of the town was really suffering. Businesses would come and go so quickly that there was Space is almost everywhere. Wow.

29:10 But they were all, you know, filly spaces, so they're really narrow. Mm-hmm. Two side by side. So we took'em both. And we just smashed the wall between'em and started working.

29:20 And where did you you just uh where did you source the equipment from? You just bought a bunch of I mean, uh you had some money to start out with'cause you'd save that money. So you used all this capital to buy roasting like roasting machines? Yeah. Yeah. We took an epic trip. During the summer we we travelled from Nice. All through Italy.

29:40 And we bought everything we needed. Roasting equipment. The spray machine. Um and pendant ceramics. Everything that we needed. Hand painted saran because you served your coffee, and I think you still do. I've been to that location of Fritten House Square.

29:55 And I remember the first time I went there, I was struck by the hand like the painted earthenware ceramic mugs that you got and the little plates, little saucers that they came on. And that was from the beginning, that's how you serve coffee there? Yeah. We were travelling all the way through Italy, I'll always remember it because We had an envelope, we had travelers checks.

30:14 And we would go directly into a factory. And begin negotiating like on the floor. And we want, okay, we'd like those two espresso machines. We want X we negotiate, negotiate, and we go, All right, take the box off. How about if we don't take the box? Like we were and we would hump these machines into his dad's car. Wow. Like And we We found the roaster in northern Italy, paid for it, strapped it to a pallet, and watched it ship.

30:40 So this is 1994. You've got a small location um a Fritten House Square you've your roasting beans there. And by the way, um I live in in uh in the Bay Area, so I pass by several roaster on a given week and you can smell that smell. It is really strong. Like when you're by a roastery, I mean w were were any of your neighbors uh in in the other businesses like sort of I don't know, complaining? It's a nice smell, but it can be overwhelming. Well Uh we ran our first load and it was clear that

31:12 With that environment in that part of town, you couldn't roast in that cafe. You had all this equipment in there, you realize you actually cannot roast in there, you have d presumably didn't have the ventilation for it. We didn't have the ventil it was not. gonna work. The way the building is uh formed, the way the wind comes down and the barometric pressure but It was that moment where I thought well like we were

31:34 We were ready to Open. I mean, we had now it spend all I think we had maybe five hundred dollars left in the bank account. I mean, there wasn't anything left. We needed to go. And we had all the green there. We'd had everything was ready to fire up. The green was the coffee beans, right? Yeah.

31:49 And it was really clear that we weren't not be able to open. I mean it was just this the nightmare scenario in my mind was like, Oh, they came this close, right? So

32:01 I went and rented a jackhammer. And I jackhammered a hole. Into a garbage chute. That runs the outside of the building, and I think it's about twenty stories high. Yeah.

32:13 And I piped the then cemented the piping into the garbage suit. And Told JP to fire it up. And uh And now it takes forever to get that whole chute heated up, but once you get hot air to rise, it just sucks it like a syringe.

32:30 Up the garbage chute. The garbage chute was your chimney. Yeah. I'm assuming you did not ask for permission to do this. No, no no. In fact, we built the cafe by our like with no permits. Like I did all the wiring, all the plumbing, like we asked forgiveness rather than permission on pretty much anything. But the the big deal was if someone would force a giant bag into that chute.

32:52 And it would get lodged. And so I would take the freight elevator up. go up on the roof and we would drop bowling balls. Remember Katie dislodge the trash. Didn't anybody complain in the building?

33:07 Yeah, we did get a lot of complaints. We got the fire department in, you know, about two, three times a week. Oh, because somebody was like somebody's burning. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And did the fire department sight you or anything? Or did they no. We would turn the lights off and hide behind the bar. Ha ha ha We would hide Holly Eyed.

33:27 And then we roasted in the middle of the night. Which helped but they made the life just Really, really. Really rough. Yeah. How did you in that initial batch of coffee, where did you get it from? Where did you

33:40 Was there like a a a distributor in in the US that you went to and said we want, you know, a hundred bags of this and a hundred bags of that? That would have bankrupt us. Yeah, we bought only a few bags. And where did you buy it from? I think the the broker was I think they're still around. I think it's called the Paragon Coffee. Out of New York. And how did you know which coffee to buy? Like which one was gonna be

34:02 Good coffee. We sampled a lot of coffee right. I mean hundreds. Hundreds. Hundreds. We have just behind me.

34:09 obviously the podcast folks can't see it. It's the original roaster. It's a little cylinder. It holds about a half a pound of coffee and you put it on a gas stove. You put your green coffee into it and you turn it by hand. And then you dump it all out into a colander and you Use s some kind of cool air to cool it down.

34:26 And if you would have gone to JP's apartment to time up in Spruit Street before we settled on all the buys we would make We had hundreds of bowls of this coffee everywhere. Right. And we were hand grinding it and copying it and hand grinding it, copying it. We built up our first blends there. And in in nineteen ninety four, right, even though Starbucks was starting to kind of grow. It was in San Francisco and Los Angeles and

34:49 And and people were sort of starting to develop a taste for that Starbucks darker roast, which a lot of people for a long time hated. They thought it it would taste burnt or bitter or how did you know what people would want to drink at that point. I mean it was still you know, our coffee palette wasn't that sophisticated in nineteen ninety four. Yeah, but you see, we had the best audience. You know, we had chefs.'Cause you were going to restaurants. Mm-hmm. You were focused on really trying to appeal to chefs.

35:17 Oh yeah, that that's that was it. That's the that was it. And part of it too is It it's you. If you love it. Then that's the one you should stick with. You know, so

35:26 First. We wanted to please ourselves. And then you introduce this to some of the best palettes in the world. And they like it. You're you're good. I I think it's really hard to make

35:37 Food and beverage. For everybody. It's like Kurt Vonnegut wrote for his sister. He wrote for one person. And I think that

35:46 When I make food and beverage, I have like one or two people I think about. How did you find the restaurants? Um, how did you get into them? How did you did you just kinda pound the pavement and start to call and and Well I I'll tell you about the first one and then that started the the whole kind of Process. So it was October fifteenth, we walked on the street, we went to the number one restaurant in the country at the time, the Becfah. We went into the back of the kitchen. Someone stopped and asked us, What are you doing here? And we said

36:16 We're here to make Coffee for chef. So they just assumed maybe that was an interview. So we went we Tore the grinder down, cleaned it, tore the espresso machine, cleaned that, put our coffee into it, made a beautiful, beautiful coffee, and then said, Where's Chef? We went upstairs, he was screaming as you know, as he was a screamer. It was the nineties, right?

36:36 Wanted to know and we said we're here to make coffee for you. Put it in front of them and you just step back. And so that's how we got the Bec Fah that that day. You mean he said right then and there, Okay, you can be my coffee supplier for my restaurant. He actually picked the grinder up. Uh with the old stuff and threw it all in the trash and said, Go get your shit. Wow. You know, it's like in other words, bring your stuff now. It's the truth. Yeah. And you thought, all right, we gotta start with le Becfond, because that is the best French restaurant in the United States. And if we're in there, then other French restaurants or other high end restaurants are gonna want our stuff.

37:08 Well the second one was the same day was uh f the f uh Jean Marie Lacroix. Extraordinary shift. Also in Philadelphia, I think this is the four seasons, right? Yep, yep. Yeah. That's right. And we did the same deal. We just walked in the back. So we're here to make coffee for Chef and he said bring it today. So that night We were being Bruden.

37:27 Two of the best restaurants in in the country. And By the end of that week we're getting calls from major players in New York and everyone saying, Oh what just go f I want to try? Was all the Frenchies. Yeah, and uh you know the media were not what it is today, obviously, and back then Chef Would only talk to chef, you know, they wouldn't buy things because they saw a nut somewhere. But once somebody finds something, they're eager to talk about it. And by the way, what was your price point higher? I mean, was it more expensive to buy your coffee? When we arrived in Philly

37:58 Coffee wholesale to restaurants was at about a dollar fifty a pound. Mm-hmm. And ours was the mid sevens. So weren't some restaurants like are you out of your mind? No They weren't.

38:10 No, because w we explain to them I go chef. Coffee is a spice. And that's all I had to say. Hm. Because you you could buy saffron for nothing and you'd have to use like a bird's nest amount in your dish to make it taste anything like saffron.

38:24 Or you get the stuff from Pakistan or Afghanistan. Where you use a pinch, but it's gonna cost you. Yeah. And they understood that. And w was it was it pretty clear t to both of you right away that you were gonna have a sustainable business within the first six months, that you were gonna turn a profit?

38:41 Yep. Do you remember JP? Yeah. And and I don't wanna look at it and but say it was Destiny or whatever, but it was so clear because the space between The food that this restaurant was serving, the level was so high, the food was so good, and where the coffee was in their dining room,

38:59 What's such a void? It was so clear. Yeah. And You know, we got one, two, three And started we got no. It just burned. It just burned.

39:13 When we come back in just a moment. how Todd and JP started to explore sourcing coffee beans directly from farmers all around the world. And later on. how a big private equity investment in the company turned into a nightmare. and how Todd and JP managed to wrangle their way out of it.

39:32 Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to How I Built This. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So It's nineteen ninety four in Philadelphia.

39:58 And Todd and JP are selling wholesale specialty coffee to more and more high-end restaurants, but the idea of premium and expensive. Still isn't mainstream. And Todd and JP find that it's a challenge just to describe to consumers What's different about the coffee they're making? Because espresso in America up to that point was an abrasive liquid. It was not to be consumed without tons of sugar or milk on it.

40:27 And we wanted to break that mistique. So we were looking for something that was European but like nine levels higher. We wanted something nutty, sweet, that was like molasses. So that's what really guided us. Yeah, I I mean the word I remember using describing the first coffee we did was balanced. We really wanted to achieve a a soft

40:48 The sweet finish. Cause we felt like the American consumer, the the public at this time needed to be intruders to better coffee, but also not to scare them away. So it was important that the coffee were really clean. And this is something that we focused on and we we had a role. It was three words. That's right. Remember it was three words per blend. Yeah. to to describe them.

41:10 And That played a really important role in the creating those first three, four blends that we made. I I'm just curious, um why you were so focused on on the cafe, I mean the ceramic cups and

41:25 and the service in that cafe if you never intended to open cafes if that was not your business plan. Streak red. Yeah. Street cred, street cred. We're serving some of the greatest

41:37 Chefs in the country. And If we were gonna have a brick and mortar space, which we really felt we needed one to have some street presence, Mm. We needed to execute on a level that no one else could.

41:48 And did you get did you get beyond sort of the the north east and the mid Atlantic? Were you distributing to Places beyond that? Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's a funny thing with kitchen, you know, a lot of people go into a kitchen and then move away to San Francisco, LA Denver, Miami and

42:05 We had such roots in the kitchen we supply that people ended up Taking Us with them when they moved. So we we did move From kitchen to kitchen.

42:17 You know, and it it went one d started. Then it went A lot faster. Meanwhile, in the nineteen nineties, were you still buying your coffee from brokers or were you starting to buy it directly from farms? Yeah, w is the nineties we started weaning off.

42:33 that because it was clear that, you know, at first we You know, we were the only ones looking for that type of coffee. So we had you know the everything was Easy to get. Easy to get. W no one else wanted it. And you could pick whatever coffee you wanted at the beginning, but then it became harder as high end roaster started to come online. Yeah.

42:51 the demand started picking up. And then it was then it was clear that we Our timing was right, so it dovetailed right into Let's go look for ourselves, right? How did you do that? Uh Well, I mean uh one of the first ones was, strangely enough, we met

43:05 A Swiss guy who owned a farm in Brazil. Remember that what was that gu Swiss guy's name. Or Wh and you met him w you met him where where'd you meet him? Oh god, how did we meet him? We m we met him through uh nineteenth Street, Britannels Cafe. He came in. Oh that's right. So I think w we met him through like chocolate. I th we're playing around with chocolate. He's got a farm. We go to the farm and once you do that.

43:32 Then you become hungry for it. So you go to visit this guy's farm in he has a coffee plantation in Brazil. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you go there. And w what do you think? Well, then you know, you spend time on the farms and we start figuring out right away exactly what's making the better coffee and what's making the inferior stuff, right? We start immediately getting interested in varieties and growing styles and all that. Which is not a big giant leap.

43:56 The real key is How do you get All these boxes from let's say A mountain in Rwanda. to Philly.

44:04 Mm. This is the challenge and the processes that it has to go through. So that is the real big first to step. It's like figuring out how to do that. Yeah. A supply chain together.

44:16 And once you get that Then you go, all right. Then you feel confident walking into Haiti and going up in the mountains and saying, All right, let's look for some farms. So it was literally because The coffee business is very, very I think complex as an understatement, right? There are so many middlemen and and the when you go to the actual farmer They're making pennies. They're not making anything. They're selling it to a

44:42 middle man who's has a couple of connections in the bigger city and then sells it to somebody the bigger city and the bigger city person is They're the ones who are selling it to a distributor in the US. So there's a lot of hands that goes through before It comes to the The the roaster. And the people at the bottom of that chain get

44:58 Tell you nothing. Nothing. Very little. You have an idea that that's what's happening, but when you go and you visualize it, you see it. And you see the eagerness that farmers have to work with you.

45:09 Because that chain of events that you described can sometimes be ten or more deeper than that. Wouldn't there be middlemen who would feel threatened by this, who would say you know, who would threaten the farmer or maybe even threaten you guys or ha didn't that happen? Well In the case of Brazil

45:26 No. Brazil is a very sophisticated country when it comes to farming. And you're not gonna really run into it there. You can go to directly to a farmer and say, I wanna buy your beans and they'd say fine. But you y you say El Salvador? Oh indeed. Haiti? Oh my God.

45:41 Haiti there were times. that I felt, yeah, this could be it. I'm I'm probably gonna not make it out. If you're alive. How do you buy directly from farmers in places like Haiti?

45:52 or in a place like El Salvador, if there are middlemen who depend on on that income too and and who are gonna be threatened by you Going around them. Well, I mean, first, l let's use Haiti for an example. What you realize is that there is strength in numbers. Once you get the faith and confidence of farmers, then you can do pretty much what you want. The problem is in places like Haiti

46:16 Or in Africa or n or or even El Salvador. There are loads of gringos that show up making promises and then never come back. You have to show a resilience that you're coming back time and time and time again. And once you've done that. Again Haiti.

46:31 I was called Un blanc. A white guy. Mm-hmm But now I'm called Le Blanc. I'm the white guy. Like I they know I'll come back.

46:39 So then they can buck the system. And Traders that are trading over borders or they're y they're, you know, taking big line share and it ends up in Some Maxwell House blend. They're looking for giant volumes and we're not disrupting that.

46:53 We're looking for this creme de la creme. And often They leave you alone. So all right, so you've got this business going. You're doing well. And then in two thousand

47:03 Six years in. Todd, you decide. to take a three month sabbatical, go to a tiny island in the South Pacific, With I guess a hundred. people who live on it and just kinda live there for three months. So first of all, Todd, what was going on in your life? Why did you feel like you needed to take sabbatical?

47:20 Uh I think that I started to well I was suffering from my brain. Mm. You know, I was a hard driving guy and I I was just I was having

47:32 difficult times. I just said oh so I actually went to JP and I felt really bad. I said You know, I was gonna end up like my father, right? I thought I was gonna go mad. Mm. Just total twenty four seven anxiety mania. I just couldn't sleep. I couldn't you know, it's just really my furnace was just burning really hot. But I just got in a space where I didn't think I was gonna be okay. And you know, there was a lot of

47:57 Problems back home. with my m my mother and my sisters and my dad, you know, my dad had killed himself and it was just like And there was just loads of pressure and then I got involved in bad relationships and it just like I wasn't managing well, right? So I went to JP and I said you can have my shares.

48:15 Hm. I don't want to ruin this thing. You can have it all. Wow. I was just And this is the kind of brother this guy is. He could have easily'cause I would I mean, when I was saying it, my hands were shaking. And when I get that way I stop eating, so I wasn't eating, I wasn't sleeping. So I just drove myself into this really, really tough place. JP, when he said to you, Hey, I'm gonna leave the business, you um you got it. Can you handle it? We're Or you like Wait what?

48:40 Yeah, I uh the story is, you know, he was Todd was going through a a hard time. You know, and you needed to hit reset. Yeah, I felt like you know, being Brothers, you know, I felt like hey, listen. Go take your time, you know. It was even to the point where it was like, you know what, I think I'm done.

48:58 So I told I said listen. Don't make any decision now. And you know, it was clear, it was like, you know, you're gonna help somebody. The that you love and Not gonna take anything from you.

49:09 You gonna go get Better and Uh come back and we'll talk. So you went off for three months and you picked some tiny remote island to just live there. And what did you do for three months there? Well, okay, so I built my own little hut.

49:26 And uh I arrived with zero money and just a little backpack and a surfboard. Uh there's a giant wave not too far away called King Kong. I fished. And uh I surfed my brains out and then I wrote a book. And it was a piece of junk, let me just tell you, it was trashy. Tra I just

49:44 You would not make it past the first chapter. But I think I did that like chopping wood. You know, it was therapeutic and I wanted to prove to myself that I could write something, right? So I did. And so there was a lot of stuff from my past that I'd never dealt with. And it was it helped a lot.

50:00 Th this was three months or almost three months on this remote island, no Wi Fi, but this is two thousand, so no internet. And JP you were not in touch with him that whole time. Yeah. Yeah. And were you not worried? Were you not like you were just like, Yeah, okay, go, and I'll figure it out. And and you just ran the the business for while he was gone? No, I mean uh

50:18 I was worried that he was not gonna go for a while. So once he went I knew that was the start of of him getting better. Wow. And the business, you know, we we uh work we always had such A group of very tight people, you know, if we look at the turnover that

50:37 La Colombas had over the years, it's very low. So we just had that core of of People from the beginning. You know, so three months was You know, felt like two weeks. I mean it was just Not much, you know, to end all. It wasn't like

50:54 Impossible. Um so when he comes back. Was he how did he seem to you? A much better and in different place completely. I mean I was just like Completely different person.

51:05 And uh, you know, happy to see him, that's for sure. You know? You decide. Thirteen years after you open your first location, Offertenhouse Square in Philadelphia, to open a new location, outside of Philadelphia for the first time.'Cause I think at that point you had like two locations in Philadelphia maybe or three. Was it two JP? Yeah, no, Dillworth Dillworth had just started. Two in Philadelphia. And you decide to go to New York.

51:32 To the most challenging market in the world, right? And by the way. It sounds like the business model at this point was starting to change because Oh, it changed big time. The cafe wasn't really the point, but now you're opening a cafe in New York, so Why? Two thousand seven and two thousand eight. Вас демейджер

51:51 fault line and in the company it was the a massive shift in everything. Hm. Сі, ви фотформта. That the Ninet стріт кафе восмалі.

52:03 Yeah. It wasn't due to the fact that we're any good at what we do. It's just that we got lucky. And we were really afraid of making a second one. Because it would prove to everyone that the first one was just An anomaly.

52:15 Yeah. So Be honest with you. We were scared, yeah. Because what if it were a failure?

52:22 And so We finally decided to face our fears and we opened one in New York. Like we evolved in isolation, that we've got to this point that we're gonna turn this thing into a true business. We could Become the reference coffee roasting company in the world if we start right now. You know, and if you if you look at

52:41 the top line revenue of Black Colombia is intense hockey stick that started in two thousand eight. We just completely decided that we were gonna dominate in this area. So clearly you're you you are shifting now at this point to cafes and does that mean that at this point, two thousand seven, two thousand eight, you were shifting away from the wholesale side or did you continue that though? Oh we continue that, no. They're called categories, right? So

53:05 You never You never abandon the energy that you're giving to one category because you've added a second. And we have five now. And you

53:15 You realize that you don't have to leave your first child because you're having a second one. Yeah. So um so you guys are now ful onto this new path of cafes And tell me about how you were able to do this. I mean you ha presumably you had to go seek out outside investment, right? This was gonna be the first time you were gonna get outside money into the business, right?

53:37 Yeah. I mean there's a couple of things that were going on too, is that I became fascinated with this thing that It wasn't being done anywhere yet called Cold Brew. I had this idea that you could brew coffee, put it in a bottle and sell it.

53:50 To stores. Mm. So that was just starting, so I knew. When GP and I believed in ready to drink coffee. So we had that, and we had the cafes, so we looked at each other and went, Man

54:01 Yeah. So we started the old investor Discussions. And It was so awful.

54:08 Because We have different blood types. To such a degree that it just I it was so difficult. And we landed on one. We did the deal.

54:17 And that lasted fifty two days. to the first board meeting, I say, Okay. I believe that Cold Brew is going to be a thing and Lacalom needs to be the Father of it. We also need to create ready to drink drinks that include milk.

54:32 And hopefully one if I can invent it, one that's frothy. Yeah. Nah. We don't want to do that. What they want to do.

54:39 They wanted us to build two hundred cafes. This is your new board. This is your board because you you had to have a board when you bring in outside investors. And of course Some of those board seats were held by that. Was it a private equity company? Yeah, so it was a private equity company, me and JP. So I just

54:55 I said, We're out of here. We're gonna buy you out. I gave him a sum too, actually. I told him how much. Double. But i in order to buy them out, presumably the you'd have to Find like another investor to get the money to do that.

55:07 That's true. You know, first we agreed we would need an angel investor. It would have to be someone who's craft based. who believes in making behaving themselves in the world and and creating value for other people. And Participating in communities and Being decent.

55:22 Yeah. And so I thought of hey there's that Handy Ukaya guy. From Tabani. Chabani. I'd met him uh

55:30 Months earlier. He he is as well as JP and I are concerned about The refugees coming across the border from Syria into Turkey. Yeah. He's a craft man, so you make things you understand, right? Yeah. I mean he understood, you know, the complexities of Greek yogurt and why that mouthfeel is so important. He understood

55:48 The beauty of clean milk. He understood clean ingredients. So I go in my lab and I create Uh the very first draft latte. drill a hole in a can, I put a volleyball valve in it, I put coffee. I put milk, I seam the can.

56:03 And I jack the contents up with nitrous oxides to make it self foaming, and I bring it up to New York. And I said this is gonna be the most expensive coffee you've ever tasted. And uh Yeah. He loved it.

56:15 And then what, you say, Hey, I need a favor from you or hey, wait would you be interested in investing? What what's your pitch to him? What do you say to him? That's exactly how I say it. I I don't know how smooth or awkward I was, but I said I wanna take Coffee into the future. And I want you to be a part of it.

56:30 In order for that to happen, you need to take out this VC. And he said. Great. Let's meet him. And we met him? And he did.

56:39 And they had no problem with it. They were like sure we'll sell. That's fine. Yeah, you d they doubled their money in a couple months. Right. That's pretty good. Yeah. So it did cost bad decision that was that I guess you guys took.

56:52 It did, but you know what? In retrospect it didn't. It was very helpful. We had to go to the next level of growing up. And we ended up getting a lot of really good executive people from it. And A real different way of looking at our business.

57:06 So it was like oh there was a whole bunch of maturity that we got out of that deal. Then I'd still say I would do it again. Mm. And this um the the draft latte cans, I mean they became an incredible hit. Like they're

57:19 I think they're distributed all over the country. I read something like they're in like one out of three US grocery stores. I'd say yeah, it's probably higher than that now. I'd say we're getting like two out of three. Wow. It's close. And and JP, what do you think of of the strategy now? I mean it seems like you guys chose the right path. Back when you kind of told the the private equity company, hey, you know, we don't want to open two hundred locations. We're gonna go in this

57:42 Different direction. Yeah, you know, I've seen so many good concept over the years. being pushed. to really roll out I'm not saying that, you know, we can't get to

57:54 But There's a balance of things. Right. I'm really, really, really happy that we We kept growing the business in different channels than just retail. I mean how many great concept have we seen over the years that

58:10 you know, just got crushed because V C money got in and and pushed it too hard. I mien there's dozen of example, and it's you know, I think we were naive. to think that that was a a solid plan and we we learn and you know Thank God Hamdi is with us. And uh this we're not different path.

58:30 Yeah. Th this business has um made both of you rich. And I know that Todd um you grew up w in like serious in insecurity, food and financial insecurity. Um, what does it mean to you to have

58:47 Money. What does that g enable you to do now? Well I think the The first and foremost is, you know I can guarantee the future of my children. Mm.

58:57 And that was that was a big thing for me. I always wanted to have a family and I wanted to be able to provide for them. What you learn, though, is that there's no such thing as security ever. There's no amount that will make you secure. That's just something that you then have to live with. Yeah. It lets me uh

59:14 make a change if I see things I don't like. I could fund programs, I can do things like that. And I I could do more than just bitch about things now. I can actually go and move the needle. And food. And food. Food. I still I'm fifty six years old and I can go to a store with my wife

59:31 And I'm walking in front of the cart and I'll spin around and I say to her I can buy anything in this store. Yeah. God damn it, that's awesome. I could buy anything in this store. And it was years and years and years that wasn't possible. But I guess the the most important one is that

59:47 You know, I have a safe home with my kids in it and I like that a lot. Hm. How about you, JP? You grew up in different circumstances. You grew up uh comfortable, but I mean obviously now you you are well this made you very wealthy.

1:00:00 Yeah, you know, and this is one of the things I respect the most about About the US, you know, it's how People become wealthy, give back. And that includes us. You know, and the it's a great feeling.

1:00:13 And uh it it's it's amazing. I it's not that way in Europe. And um this country is amazing. No, not just us, a la Colomb. It's amazing, you know, it's pretty cool. So being part of that, doing a share Yeah.

1:00:27 It's great. Um, JP when you think about how much of your success has to do with your hard work And Talent and how much has to do with luck.

1:00:36 What do you think? What weight do you give to each each of those? Uh I think luck plays a really big part. really big part in the success of Lacolombe. It's um

1:00:46 Yeah, luck, please. I mean hard work is a given, right? You're gonna work hard. If I were gonna give you a percentage. I would probably call it close to fifty fifty. It's I mean if you if you call luck, you c also talk about timing.

1:01:03 in the first place. Yeah, and and people you meet along the way and and you know, the opportunity that create all that, you know, uh put in the same bag. You know, for me that's luck. Mm. How about you, Todd? Yeah, I just I don't know, when he was talking I I got an image in my mind that it's like

1:01:20 We have these mosaic tables, the broken pieces of La Colomb ceramic, you know, that they've put together to make this mosaic pop. So I would say that the grout is the luck. It's what holds all those broken pieces together. Whatever percentage that is. Because

1:01:38 Obviously they They would they would mean nothing if it weren't for the grout, right? They wouldn't hold together. So Guess thirty five percent of its luck? Or good fortune or destiny or

1:01:50 You know the gods or 'Cause it's true, man. That luck begins With Green River. And whether he was wearing a gold vest or not, I'm not sure. Is meeting JP.

1:02:01 Huge piece of luck. There would be no lack alone. That's Todd Carmichael and JP Iberti, co-founders of La Cologne Coffee Roasters. By the way, in addition to founding Lockalome,

1:02:18 Todd also once held the world's speed record for trekking to the South Pole. On foot. Unassisted. There's a whole documentary about his trip called Race to the Bottom of the Earth that aired on the National Geographic. Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app so you never miss a new episode of the show. And please sign up for my newsletter at guyros.com or on Substack.

1:02:46 This episode was produced by Casey Herman with music composed by Ramptina Rabli. It was edited by Sarah Sarason with research help from Dereth Gales. Our production staff also includes Neva Grant, Catherine Seifer, JC Howard, Sam Paulson, Chris Massini, Alex Chung, Carrie Thomson, John Isabella, Andrea Bruce, Ramel Wood, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This, and Don't Stop the Podcast Just Yet! Пиз. You're about to hear an amazing small business story that you

1:03:18 don't want to miss. This segment is presented by American Express. With a business platinum membership? The best Just got

1:03:26 Even better. And this week's story starts back in 2009, when a former Dell engineer named Peter Mann set out to solve a very personal problem. My son struggled with asthma when he was an infant. He would have an asthma attack to where he would change colors and not breathe and it was really distressing not being able to do much for him. as he, you know, was a little bit older, more middle school age, he would a have an asthma attack just sitting on the couch. Peter learn that one of the big triggers for those asthma attacks were allergens and other particles in the air. So he started looking into air purifiers, and he was pretty underwhelmed at what he found.

1:04:08 It's almost like bulletin board looking terrible websites. And some of them are selling these same products with just different logos on their product. Peter came from the world of tech. So he knew how to develop a product and market it online. And he thought, why not just do this myself? So we have to flight to Hong Kong. negotiated a deal with a manufacturer.

1:04:30 Tested some samples. And about six months later Peter's own air purifier, which he called a Ronzi. arrived at his door. I remember opening it and plugging it in and turning it on and within about fifteen or twenty minutes the air Just felt different.

1:04:47 And his son's scary middle of the night asthma attacks? They went away. It wasn't waking him up, which wasn't waking us up. It was just a huge win-win. Customers love the product too. And Aransi's sales grew steadily over the next decade.

1:05:03 When COVID hit, demand for Peter's air purifiers skyrocketed. but so did competition. It just got to the point where it was oversaturated. So Peter decided to pivot. and focus instead on the technology inside the device, specifically the electric motor.

1:05:22 He merged with a partner, bought a huge factory in Virginia, and built an air purifier in-house from scratch as a way to validate the technology. Now Peter's setting his sights on a much bigger market. with a seemingly endless demand for cool, clean air. AI data centers.

1:05:42 Now around the same time he made that pivot, something happened in Peter's personal life. that completely changed at his business and himself. In 2022, my wife was watching. CBS Morning Show and in April they do profiles of people that are autistic. And she's like, Oh, you need to see this And I watched it and I was like, Oh my gosh, I didn't know I like

1:06:09 Now so many things make sense. Peter thought, that's me. the hyperfocus, the ability to build systems, and some of the social challenges he've experienced as well. Sure enough, at age 55.

1:06:23 he was diagnosed with autism. I did a LinkedIn post and I said, you know, hey, I was recently diagnosed if anyone that's autistic that, you know, is going through interviews or navigating the workplace wants to talk, I'd be happy to talk and Wow. I had video calls with dozens of autistic adults.

1:06:43 Probably 75% of them were just struggling with the interview process. So he's spending more time thinking about ways his company can set people up like him. for success. This kind of hit me like my son's asthma did. By the way, the son whose asthma attacks inspired a Ronse to begin with? Peter says, he's doing great. He seems to have largely outgrown it. He still has an air purifier. These years later.

1:07:11 That's Peter Mann, the founder and CEO of the Air Purifier and now Electric Motor Company. A Ronzi. His small business spotlight was presented by American Express. To build a business like no other, you need a card like no other. There's nothing like business platinum.

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