Transcript

Advice Line with Norma Kamali of Norma Kamali (November 2024)

0:01 Hey everyone, it's Guy here. So our team is just getting back from our break, and this week we've got an amazing episode from the Archives, our advice line conversation with the legendary fashion designer Norma Kamali. We'll be back with brand new advice line episodes starting next week, and I'll be joined by some awesome guests like Lady Gaga's former manager, Troy Carter. So stay tuned. And again, thank you to everyone who's called in so far. We love hearing your stories. We love Talking through your business challenges, keep it up.

0:31 And enjoy the show. Yeah. Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you.

0:55 And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. You can also send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com, and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at gyros.com. And we'll put all this info in the podcast description. Alright. Let's get to it.

1:35 Joining me this week is Fashion Designer Legendary Fashion Designer Norma Kamali. Norma, welcome back to the show. I'm happy to be back. It's so great to have you back on the show. You were first on how I built this, uh, in 2021, and uh and of course you told the story of how you built your hugely influential fashion business. And and of course if those of you listening have not yet heard that story, please check out our feed. We've just posted the original episode and we'll also put a link in the description. It is such an amazing story. Uh, but basically in the in the in the sixties Norma was working as an airline clerk and then using her employee discount to fly to London and then buy up clothes sort of secondhand clothes there and then opened a store in New York to sell them, eventually start designing

2:22 your own clothing and you created all these iconic Pieces. Red swimsuit, the sleeping bag jacket. Um And really built one of the first great American brands. And and I let me just say it again, Norma.

2:36 You are a legend. Eight decades of life. And you are still actively running your brand out of New York City today. Yep. Yes. Very actively, um and enjoying every minute of it. I feel privileged to have a creative life. I'm very lucky. And total inspiration, Norma. You really are We have a bunch of early stage founders here, uh ready to to jump on, but before they do, if you're in uh indulge me, I've got a couple of questions for you before we bring them on. So

3:11 You know, you really built your brand on designs that stood out in part because they were so different. They were kind of weird at the time. But Just because customers love a product, right? And and and they love and loved Yours.

3:26 It doesn't always mean that that the business is profitable. There was a point. in your journey where where you were really hot and in the New York fashion world, but you guys were having trouble paying the rent. I remember you telling us a story. Yeah. How do you turn Customer love and satisfaction and buzz around your brand into

3:46 growth into profitability. Well I I think um a lot of creative people believe they're not a Good at business. And I believe that that's not true. I think it's something we've been fed to believe.

4:02 А найк-морю к лер. And maybe it's by having really good mentors I was very fortunate to have incredible advice uh throughout my career.

4:19 And learning as much as I could about how to look at where I needed help in the business, how I needed to evaluate Sales versus productivity and also how to m maximize the opportunity of the attention you're getting from the press. Um and that's

4:42 Yeah. That's A very that's as important as the creative concept storytelling. Um Norma uh your you know, your brand was and is your vision, right? And and I think a lot of

4:56 Entrepreneurs can identify with that, right? That feeling. Um, but at a certain point, certainly in your industry, to become A global brand You often have to partner with bigger companies, right? You worked with

5:09 with the Walmart, you worked with uh um you you did a lot of interesting things. And so how do you protect Your vision. When you start to do things like mm you know, work with with partners, with bigger partners.

5:23 That's the that's the big challenge and and I still am the sole own of my company, which tells I really like to control The fit and the quality of the product. But I was copied a lot and I wasn't making money because other people were making money from my designs. Yeah. And when I knew I did a collection that I felt was strong I partnered with Jones Harrel And

5:54 it was a huge success because I had the ability to use their manufacturing and distribution and sales with my designs and um sort of storytelling. And the combination was incredibly profitable for everyone. By doing that it gave me exposure and the ability to um do many other things um and also go to sleep at night knowing I could pay the rent finally. Yeah. Um I love it. All right, Norma, why don't we bring in our first collar. Um and let's bring caller number one on to the show. Welcome to the advice line. You are on with Mia Norma Kamali, please uh introduce yourself, tell us your name.

6:42 where you're calling from and just a little bit about your business and and we'll take it from there. Well hello, lovely to to meet you both. Uh my name is Ahmed Ijaz. I am calling from England in the United Kingdom and I am the founder of Cambridge Spectacle Company. Uh we make beautiful glasses and and we've started to do eye examinations as well now. Amazing. Okay. Welcome to the show. Ahmed, and thank you for calling in. So you have a

7:06 And uh uh is it like a are you an optometrist? Do you do like eye exams and sell glasses? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I I am actually an optometrist by by training. Um but when I started this brand I I actually quit my job as an optometrist. uh and started focusing on designing glasses, designing uh prescription eyewear. Yeah, so so we we initially started with a with a sort of a distribution deal with uh a big company in the UK.

7:32 who who were part of Walmart at the time as their opticians. And um you know, that that was great. But we've moved into opening our own uh optometry practices now. Um so so um you know, sort of similar to to Warby Parker in in the United States, that that kind of brand. I see. Okay, now I'm starting to make sense. You're basically

7:54 M try to model your business off of Warby Parker in the US. Like basically high designs, high end dis quality designs, but But at a lower price point. So I I you know for for me, Warby uh w when those guys, you know, did what they did, I was I was just sort of qualifying from university and i I I thought it was game changing and I I didn't quite understand why we didn't have something similar in the UK and um you know we weren't celebrating British highway. We know we've got Oakley and Rayban as as American companies and there's a lot of Scandinavian companies out there, but I felt that there really needed to be a uh uh you know, hopefully one day a global British eyewear brand.

8:31 Uh that that dominates. Yeah. And presumably Warby Parker doesn't operate. I think they only operate in the US, right? Yeah, that that's that's right. Yeah, so I did send them an email in twenty fifteen and I said to them uh to the to the customer service, I'd love to start this in the in the UK but I I I didn't hear back, so I thought um Well I I better start this myself.

8:51 Nice. Well I'm sure you heard our episode with Warby Parker with Neil Demethal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And uh amazing story. Okay, so W what's the vision here? The vision presumably is to try and scale this thing? Yeah. So so look we're we're opening a second store in London in in the next week or so. Um so so we've just acquired a store there and uh we've acquired that customer database and all the frames are gonna be uh you know, changed to to Cambridge Spectacle co-frames. Uh and then we're in we're in negotiations right now to to open a third store in in Birmingham.

9:23 Um so the goal is three sites by by the end of this year. Wow. How how are you how are you financing all this? So a friend of mine, he sort of um said, How much do you need to to get going? And I had no money, but I had a deal on the table with As their opticians, I didn't tell them I had no money. Um, and uh my friend uh you know, I told him I needed a hundred and fifty thousand pounds to get going and he he um fortunately said I'll I'll do you the full amount, Ahmed, because I I know you and I I trust you.

9:55 So he he kicked us off and then we did a little bit of crowdfunding as well via a European crowd equity uh platform. All right. I got a bunch of questions for you, but before I do that, I wanna hear what your question is. for us today. Yeah, so look, I I I think you know, to that customer proposition is strong and you know, customers seem to love our brand, but the the question really is how how do we get that same kind of excitement around the brand um across to investors because

10:22 It's very difficult when you're in a pitch and you've got you know, five, ten minutes and they're seeing pitch after pitch as as angels or or V C for them to fall in love with your brand. So You know, how how are we really gonna be able to translate that love and show them not just the financials, but hey, this is this is gonna be big, you know, customers love this. How do you get how do you generate the buzz to to to attract investors? Just out of curiosity, what what's your revenue right now?

10:47 Annual revenue. So we're doing about in the store about uh twenty thousand pounds to twenty th five thousand pounds, about thirty So thirty five thousand dollars a month, um that that's in the first year. That's great. Okay, so you're looking at three to three hundred fifty thousand maybe four hundred thousand revenue this year. Uh let me bring in Norma Kamali. Norma, a lot I have a lot of questions. You may have questions for Ahmed um Go.

11:09 Let's hear let's hear your thoughts. Well I I think the first question I have is What makes you different Other than your ambition to use your reputation, um and your history and and value. But

11:30 It really takes a a lot more. to sell someone and it It has to be done. maybe in a sentence or two and and no more. So What

11:45 What is Different. About your product. Or your approach to marketing your product. That would make

11:56 me want to invest in in uh your potential success. Yeah. So I mean I I think from a from a customer point of view, we always tell them how Our designs are inspired by Cambridge and made by us. Rather than

12:12 And you say Cambridge like the the the town, Cambridge, the city, the university, the sort of aura of that town? Yeah, exactly. So I I lived there for a while and my brother who helped out is is an MBA from the university. Um and uh so we we will always have a you know, discuss with the patients the fact that we we all the glasses are inspired by that city, named after Rhodes, places in that city. Um and that's what customers seem to be responding well to. And then

12:38 also we we give a portion of our profits to I research as well. But I think Norma, this is where I I struggle that If I gave that across to an investor It's probably not the thing that excites them. Um or maybe it is, like you know, it's uh maybe I'm I'm just not explaining it and and they would be excited by that. Well, I I must say Um I now think, Oh, this is interesting. It's a very authentic British

13:05 Brand. That has the character of history and quality just by that reference and the the idea of your contributing to the health and well being of ICAR. It was very nice and very uh a sign of goodwill and on top of this classic British history. that you're basing the brand on. So those two points

13:32 definitely have more of my interest than the idea of the name and you're opening different you know, uh brick and mortar locations. First knowing the that history and the and the reference Definitely raises interest. You know, it's interesting because I'm I'm looking at your website here.

13:54 And you your your question is how do we generate more buzz around the story? And the story Is if the story is Cambridge Like the university, the the aura of that place. I'm not seeing enough of that. What what Warby Parker did really well was first of all an invented name, right? And they they took

14:13 put'em together, but then they name their glasses. They give each pair of glasses, each design, like an interesting name. Like, is there a world where could you Just looking at like the list of graduates. of the University of Cambridge. I mean, could you call one like George the Fifth a you know, a pair of glasses called the Cornwall. Yeah. Here you go, Pit the Younger. There's all these people who uh Nehru Nahru went to Cambridge. Could you call a pair of the Nehru's? Uh I mean it just seems like there's a way to connect it more closely 'Cause for most people, Cambridge is is the university, right? Uh maybe even make like a pair called like the Philbyes, right? Because he those spies went there.

14:53 То мі в тері Is about Britain, Cambridge. You gotta lean into that more before you're gonna really be able to get people excited about it. Mm-hmm.

15:02 Yeah, no, I think I think Guy that's that's that's an incredible uh approach and idea. Uh you know, Prince I think was named when we designed that after Prince Charles at the time, who's now King Charles because he went to the University of Cambridge. But you wouldn't you wouldn't really know that looking at it, right? So so I think yeah, we we we must do Must do better that at at that and if that's what generates the buzz as Norma says, if you know, y you are excited by the fact that it's um it's linked so so heavily to to Cambridge.

15:30 Then that's a great idea. Yeah. Norma, the other thing I'm wondering about is like in fashion, right? The the trick is To get the cool kids to wear your stuff. Like the other thing Warby Parker did is They found the cool kids. who are frugal.

15:46 Who didn't have money. But could wear their glasses. That's the th those are the people they got those glasses on, right? Nor normally I mean it's a safe and fashion, right? Yeah, I w I've been thinking from the beginning of the conversation, well, what's the demographic? We know if you have a great price you can have a younger demographic. And I think having um some sort of uh an interaction with the clients to take pictures of themselves, put it on social media wearing Your glasses and also

16:23 How how many things can you do with those glasses? They can obviously be prescription, they can I use mine for my computer where I have a soft tint, but I also have sunglass versions of my prescription. So I think having we you know, really rolling out all the possibilities and looking at marketing it through actual evolution of uh your client base. Yeah. Yeah, no, I I I think I think that's that's a good idea. I mean when we when we started the brand We had to think about the the audience and you know, older young and Whilst we knew uh older people would buy very focals and bifocals and they would be ultimately more expensive and more more profitable.

17:07 we we decided that well, if you build a brand for younger people, the older people will come. But if you build a brand for older people, the younger people won't come to it, right? So so so yeah, I think I think we do need to go back to to um making sure that we get the younger people in to to promote the brand as as as you say Warby did, yeah, which would which would be a great idea. You know, there's a s an episode of the show we did uh maybe a year or two ago. on mod pizza and actually the founders were on the advice line a couple months ago.

17:34 And what's cool, you should listen to that episode because their first business that they started was called Seattle Coffee Company. And they started it in a kiosk at Covent Garden and they saw what was happening with Starbucks in the US at the time. And this was in the nineties. They saw Starbucks was growing so fast. They decided to replicate that model in the UK. They were two Americans. Um Allian Scott Svenson. And they uh

17:59 very quickly to scale Seattle Coffee Company and just build I think they built like fifty locations across the UK in a just a matter of a few years. And then, of course, the Starbucks came in and bought it. And converted them all to Starbucks, which was an a a great outcome for everybody. To me there's a world where something like that could happen, you know, where A world where Warby Parker decides to go to the UK.

18:26 You know, but but to get that kind of money and to build that scale quickly. Back to your s your question. You've gotta just get your story down. 'Cause'cause you have all the

18:38 The fundamentals. The foundation there. It's just now Um really chiseling away and and getting it right.

18:47 Yeah, I mean look, w getting to fifty stores is is is you know, my ambition is to get to a hundred stores and Um if if if Warby Parker or someone comes along we'd be we'd be happy to talk at that point. We have actually spoken to a big British V C here in in in the UK and and they have said that get to five stores and and we will look at backing you to get to twenty with you know a few million pounds. Um So so but we had a connection to that investor at that V C firm. Um so so he's been great and he's been monitoring our progress. Um, but it's just making sure that the other BCs do follow on in that round as well.

19:18 and and having that kind of growth story that war be had in America. Yeah. It's awesome. Awesome idea. Thanks so much to the brand is called Cambridge Spectacle. Good luck. Good luck. Nice to meet you both. Thank you. Thank you so much for the advice. That's great. I mean he's got a l g Cromwells. I'm looking at this list. He's g do the

19:40 The Nero's So much fun. Wallpoles. Yeah. I think he has to Focus on the story Um creating a buzz before he opens more stores. I think getting really grounding that message, um

20:01 True British Character and fun. Yeah, and I mean the thing about the UK is that it's the the a total addressable market there is still significant, right? Population sixty five million. Yeah. It's a b I mean, it's a you can build a huge brand just in the UK. Yeah. You know, Lichtenstein.

20:24 But you could do that in the UK. Yeah. Stay with us because after the break, we'll talk to another founder working to take their business to the next level. That's after the break. I'm Guy Roz, and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and my guest today is fashion designer Norma Kamali. Uh, Norma, what do you say?

21:02 Should we take another call? I think so. Lots of fun. Hello, uh caller, please uh join us. Welcome to the advice line. You are on with me. Norma Kamali, tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just very briefly about your business. I'm Bob Wolkov from Chicago, big fan of the show. Um Sonny Balls, which I'm fo I'm the founder of.

21:23 Is a new category in the fast casual restaurant industry where soup is the star of the menu. Our goal is to become the sweet green of soup. I love it. Bob, welcome to the show. Thank you for calling in the sweet green of soup. That's very clear. I know exact I I imagine. Exactly what you're trying to do. So you've got one one or One shop in Chicago right now?

21:45 Two we have two, one at the Merchandise Mart and one at Northwestern Hospital. And w when did you start this? When did you launch this brand? Well, I started it when COVID was still a thing, uh toward the end of it, and I'm a contrarian. And just believe that if I started when all the restaurants were closing and I could build brand and start to learn a business that I didn't know. That's what I did. I love it. W d were you in food at the time? I mean, d was that was that your background? My whole career was in r real estate and I had this idea when I was in my twenties.

22:19 And I finally decided to open it when I was fifty eight. I love it. F so really Starting From scratch at fifty A, we just did a great episode about Lily's chocolates, and Cynthia Tice was fifty seven when she started that brand, so You open the first location, you've got two now, and you

22:37 And it's soup, basically. So Soup is the star. So if you picture an ice cream store, but instead of ice cream We have ten soups that were actually designed by a James Bird award winning chef. Nice. And you pair it, or you can pair it with a sandwich or one of our s uh salads.

22:58 And in lieu of колд суп, ви в дизайн. A unique line of smoothie bowls which actually have a ice cream like texture, but are healthy. It's like eating a healthy ice cream and that's designed for the summer months. Got it. Okay. And and what's your um what's what's your question for us? So my question is that so people love they crave our soup after they try us and we have a four point nine nine star rating on Google. But there is a resistence to

23:30 Not the first adopters, but people that when they think of going to lunch, that think of Mexican, they think of hamburgers, they think of a salad. They don't think of soup. And the other thing is when you're competing against brands that are already well known. that we are not top of mind. And so my question is how do we continue to acquire uh new customers?

23:54 How do you break through, right? Oh yeah. Norma. Uh Thoughts for for Bob, questions for Bob? Um, the first thing I'm thinking is what

24:05 is the value added. Is there nutritional value? Do you have Information about the ingredients, is it something that's efficient? for especially for women or men who are working out and they want to keep There. High protein and and really low carbs. I love soup.

24:32 But I always I wanna know the value of the calories I'm Eating. What will the takeaway be? So

24:42 Uh uh just to give you an idea, we had one customer who went to our their dietitian and said, You can eat everything in the store. Um we actually have one soup that's a wellness soup. But all all of our soups are gluten free, dairy free, with a lot of vegan options. We have ten soups, five of them are meat, four chicken and one delicious chili. Um, and then five that are vegetarian. So they're v I mean, we put the reason I said sweet green is because I do look at us as in the healthy fast casual sector.

25:16 The nutrition I think is everything and I think really promoting uh so many people take supplements for good health and if they know that in the soup they're gonna get that nutrition Um and have a tasty kind of lunch at the same time. That's just a bonus.

25:39 Bob, I'm curious. Your your question is, how do I get people to think of soup as a meal? And I imagine that Really it's lunch, the lunchtime crowd. Th that you wanna focus on and I'm looking at your website, very nice. I love the graphics and the drawings and designs. But there's two things I don't see here. I don't see ingredients, which I think would be really great to put on. They're just, you know,'cause I'm a s I'm assuming they're clean, simple ingredients you're using Vegetables and broth. The second thing is

26:07 Is there a world and these are s the these and you know this as a as a guy who's been around in business for a long time. Sometimes a slogan or a or a mantra or a mission statement can be transformational when everyone get can gather around a shared common definition of what you're doing. And I

26:26 I wonder if there's a world where you put something under Sunny Bowls instead of super food that says You know A new way to lunch or a new way to Think about yeah, your your your meal.

26:39 One of the things we're trying to do also like on our Instagram is have three kind of pillars. One healthy. Two delicious and three, we're trying to create kind of a f uh humorous brand. To get people to connect, so Yeah, I think of Geico and and doing things um that get people to wanna view us and

27:02 So forth. To mi it seems like the opportunity is in A break through product, like or a breakthrough delivery mechanism where people start to talk about

27:15 one thing that you're doing that then brings other people in. So here's my idea, Norma. I wanna I wanna get your sense and give me real feedback. Don't just say I love the idea, because if it's a stupid idea, tell me it's a stupid idea. But you know how how people walk how people consume coffee today, right? They get a cup of coffee at Starbucks and they walk down the street with it. They're they're drinking the Starbucks coffee.

27:39 What if there was like a a pureed soup, like a sippin' soup that you serve in like a to-go coffee cup. with your logo on it and you kinda market it as a uh grab and go. Well it's funny because one of the ideas I've had for the store is you know, when Panera you have the push for the coffee, but instead of coffee we have different bone broth. Oh yeah. So you drink that as your Are you doing that?

28:04 My my direct my operations person is fighting me on it. But you haven't started doing that yet? No, we have not started doing that. Bone broth m Norma. Bone broth. Bone broth is no um collagen, it's got it's a hot thing. People love bone broth. Yeah.

28:20 Yeah. I there was a uh in uh the US and New York that Did uh very successful bone broth. um presentation. However, in the summer months they fell apart um and they it they couldn't carry as busy as they were in the winter. But I think the idea of having a cup

28:45 that really says I am drinking soup, um it's from this place. And uh and that it's bold and beautiful. I I love that idea. Uh yeah, I mean that you know, I think about The thing that Norma talked about with protein, to me, I I we hear it Time and again.

29:06 Protein is where this is going. Everybody is building protein brand not everybody, but lots of people are building protein brands. And I Uh and Norma, you you've written about this. You are uh By the way, Bob, Norma's one of the foremost experts. really truly experts on aging nutrition America.

29:24 And Norma, you you're on this protein thing, right? But this is a big part of you of how you And it's not like you're eating Steaks and chops every night, but but it's it's a quality protein. Right. Protein, um, I think is

29:38 really looked at now very carefully in building uh strength, muscle mass and for me it's very hard. To get that protein in because I don't eat meat. But if I can get protein in any way I'll have soup and vegetables and anything else, protein powders that can even be added to the soups. I think there's so much opportunity there.

30:08 I think that there's one one other idea I have for you, one other slogan. Your grandmother was right. Something like that. We have a we have a Bubby's chicken soup. Perfect.

30:22 Yes. a nourishing, nutritious, uh Filled with vitamins. You know, it's some some way to get across the idea. That

30:33 Uh your in one quick efficient delivery mechanism you're getting pretty much everything you need. for that meal. Yeah.

30:43 Bob, I'm gonna come to Chicago once your new slogan is is out. It says the new way to eat lunch. I'm gonna say it's me, Bob. And I'm and I want my bowl of chili. I I you're all you're more than welcome. Love to have you. All right. Bob Wil Cop, Sunny Bulls. Good luck. Congrats. Thanks for calling in. Lots of luck, Bob. Good luck. Yeah.

31:03 I mean so so you don't do bone broth, right, because you're you're vegetarian. I have started bone broth, but I there are other broths uh That are vegetable broths and some I'm just started eating chicken, I have to say it's been a struggle. Yeah, as long as it's not recognizable, there's sort of kebabs and things like that that are I can deal with. But I I mean I as you know, I eat meat, but I love tofu. I think tofu is a great protein source. Beans great protein source. Yeah, absolutely. That's a

31:36 For me, it's probably where I get most of my uh protein. Normaal. I I wish People listening could see you right now. Because

31:46 I I'm is you know, I'm fifty. You're my model. I wanna be you. That's what I wanna be uh I mean you're you you're physically fit, you're energetic, you're beautiful, you're just you've got all these incredible energy ideas. I mean how do how do we get there? What's the fountain of youth? What's the secret?

32:05 I think you know, in the the world we live in now there's so much really good information on healthy lifestyle and the ability to to Change. habits to more positive, uh proactive aging with power attitudes and learning something new every day and really uh keep moving, all of that.

32:31 Is Where everybody is going. And you're an example of what that lets you are. You are. I think a big part of it, Norma, isn't just what you eat and your exercise, but your Outlook. How do you I mean I think part of it's just you're just wired that way. You're just a positive. You're wired that way, but

32:52 It's a practice too, right? Yeah. I d I I think so. And one of the things that I realize is, and that was pointed out to me by Marty, is that Marty's your partner. says you know

33:10 You wake up every morning no matter how bad the day before was As if Everything is okay and and I look at it as well, I have a new start, I have a new chance to Try it again and um and not sort of hang in the The dreary feeling of the day before

33:33 And I think that that's important to to really clean the slate, take another look at it, and um give it another shot. Okay, next up after the break, another collar with another business challenge. I'm Guy Raz and we're answering your questions right here. On the advice line. on how I built this lab.

34:03 Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking your calls with Norma Kamali. Uh so Norma, let's let's get right back into it and take another call. I'm looking forward to, yes. Welcome to the advice line you're on with Norma Kamali, please Introduce yourself, tell us where you're calling from and a little bit about your business. Hi there, Norma. Hi there, guy. My name is Adriana Alvarez. I'm calling from Sacramento, California. I am the owner and the founder of LoveHershop.com. We are an athleisure brand, um, and we are best known for our leggings. We to bring affordable

34:40 products to the market, high quality products that Um women's Typically want to see At a better price. Mm-hmm. Awesome. Well thanks for calling in. Um so uh Adriana, tell us a little bit more about

34:54 There it's it's a active wear apparel Uh like stuff you'd wear to work out, basically. Yeah, definitely. It's all work out apparel and all of our products are designed and engineered in house by our all all women team. Um, and these leggings, um, they came about to the market after um I had an an experience with a pair of leggings um that were gifted to me that were from a very well known brand. They were very expensive, they were over a hundred dollars a pair. And after I used them, I realized that um they actually didn't work for me. And um I didn't know if they didn't work for me because I mean so many women use this particular brand. Um, but then I started realizing when I went back to the um group of women and moms that I was working out with, a lot of them said the same thing. Um so it turns out that, you know, moms Or women that have curves, women that have different body types, we do need something that holds us in a little bit better, that um kind of accentuates our curves and also um

35:54 A lot of the mom that I was working out with were not willing to pay a hundred dollars for a pair of leggings. Yeah. Wow, it's so cool. So and and so You it's not like s quote unquote surplus size. Uh d is designed for all body types, essentially.

36:09 Yeah, definitely all body types, but these definitely are leggings that you would work out in. Um, for example, uh we get a lot of the feedback from our customers stating that they love that our leggings stay in place during workouts that require a lot of jumping, uh jump squats. Um also women have ran marathons in our leggings. And uh one of the biggest things I think we get is the way that they feel on their body is more of a shapewear effect. But they do look um amazing and they kinda lift in tone and um and they kinda suck you in. Wow. And I'm looking at your website now and and it's like thirty bucks for a pair of leggings. I think um You know, just to name a brand. We've had the founder of Lulu Lemon on the show and a few years ago, Chip Wilson, he's not involved anymore, but uh they're like a hundred bucks.

36:53 For a pair of Lulu Lemons and Um, this is a very competitive space that you've gotten into, at leisure where it's really hard for one person to start it. On their own, um, are you bootstrapping this thing? Yeah, I um started this business um after it actually started as a side hustle. Um, but during COVID, I I worked for the Coca-Cola company and during COVID, Coca-Cola decided to um kill off a brand that I was helping manage. And at that point I decided to take my severance package and Injected 100% in my own business and uh first year of sales. This is when I was still running it out of my house. I did over a million dollars in sales. Wow.

37:35 And that was purely by doing like social media ads and stuff like that? Um yeah, ads. I've never paid for an influencer to speak about our brand. Our customers are our influencers. Um I've kind of always been an authentic person where I don't want somebody to sell me something because they're being paid to be, you know, out there selling it. So um I think What has made us very successful is a lot of like moms have power, man. Moms will share with their social media groups, and um, that's kind of how we took off. That's awesome. And what's your question for us today? So my question is we're currently like in a at an expansion stage. We've been growing and we've been so blessed with the growth. However, um we are looking I don't know if it's right now is a good time for us to look for outside investors to bring into the business so that we can say yes to a lot of the um things that we have currently been saying no to just because we don't have the staff, um, or we don't have the expertise in in those areas. Got it. Okay.

38:34 Norma Wow, right up your alley. We're talking about an apparel brand here. Um and and Adriana's doing something different. It's it's uh lower price point, it's you know, really designed to accept accentuate curves. She's bootstrapped this thing, you uh bootstrapped your business, and now you're a hundred percent owner of it.

38:55 Um First of all, questions for for Adriana. Well, first of all Your website looks Fantastic.

39:04 Thank you. The moms focus, very specialized. Everything looks great. I love that you have a huge marketplace to to reach out to. Nothing better than moms who have had babies, they want to feel good, they always want to work out, they want to feel held in. I commend you for really Being very smart about what you decided to put your severance money in. And that was a good idea. Um I think

39:35 The next step is usually the tough one because You have to make big decisions. Where are you gonna get additional funding? I think There are choices you have, and I think friends and family Uh.

39:52 Always a good Step. People that Are your customers. Could also be

40:00 Good investors. I think before you jump into a relationship where they take a part of your business or a percentage of what you're doing. I think you still identifying who you are and building that Um and and I think you have a little ways to go.

40:18 as far as investment in fabric and cost of goods. Where do you make the where do you make them? We do make it all overseas. We have five different five different cut and sews, but um we do actually have our own uh we source our material and then we have our material sent to our cut and sew. Um just so that because we're very specific on the material we're using. And is the distribution other than your website? No, not at all. Um we started as j really just doing pop up shops and um when we pivoted over to online sales, that's when the business and the focus really took us there so we couldn't pivot back. Um just because we're doing so much online sales. Yeah, and what about sales on TikTok or Instagram? We do not sell on TikTok. We have an Instagram page, but we do not sell directly on Instagram either.

41:10 I would try it. We do Very well. I think it's a it's a A very big opportunity. Learn a little bit more about it because it opens up Another it's like having another store.

41:25 I see. Yeah. Uh Adriana, are you specifically targeting Moms or or or women who are

41:34 Mom ages. Um, it is women that are mom ages,'cause we do have a lot of customers, uh that are not moms, but are like we we get a lot of college customers to Between like twenty and forty. Yes, definitely. Um I would say it's between twenty five and forty five is our our demographic our sweet spot. Uh you know, we we did a an episode on twenty one seeds tequila recently, and that the what differentiated that brand was Basically it was a m it was a boost tequila for moms, you know, or or or book club. It was and and people were making tequila for frat boys and you know, men sipping tequila. Nobody was making I mean, very few people were focusing on on moms. And I I love this idea because If you look a and I just looked at this, if you look at the spending power of women in the United States between

42:21 twenty five and forty five? It's like five to fifteen trillion dollars a year. It's a massive amount of money. you know, in terms of what they spend not obviously on athletes or just everything, you know, overall. But it's a huge opportunity And there's um A clear thesis here, which I really love.

42:39 Yeah. It's uh it's it's very impressive. And I think um there were a lot of mom bloggers too that are so good and they really have a great audience. And you might want to invite some of them to be a part of your world. You know, I I I think doing collaborations now would be a good idea for you. And I think the bloggers are all so good. They tell their stories about being mothers and

43:10 how they feel about their bodies and and what's going on in their lives. And I think bringing in that conversation and making your website also a place where people go for information just to bring populate it more um would be I think a lot of fun I love that idea. Adriana, what do you um I mean in terms of raising money,

43:34 What what Obviously they would it would enable you to scale, but um w w just roughly what what are you estimating your revenue to be this year? Um, our revenue right now we're targeted at being uh we're ending the year at two million dollars in sales. Awesome. Amazing. Yeah, and and the key points that we would need the capital for that we haven't done but we want to go into is um wholesale distribution, um, expanding and creating a petite line and more

43:58 Sizes uh like plus sizes. So so there's an argument to be made, right, that that having outside capital will help you get there. Um people are gonna give you different different advice, right? Some people are gonna say uh hang on as long as possible because the longer you can hold on, and scale it on your own, the greater the value and the more you can retain. That being said,

44:19 Um you know, if you can find The right partner Who has wholesale apparel experience You know, uh maybe it's a factory. Maybe they become a co investor.

44:32 That's where I I think it starts to make sense to really explore it. If it's just a money play, if it's just about finding somebody with, you know, extra cash, but without the expertise, I would say Uh no way. You know, focus on building the business on your own. But if you can find a really Experienced strategic investor who knows How to get in. To wholesale, who's done it.

44:56 Then it makes sense. to me and in in I mean I I I to me it seems like that's really what you're what you want to look for. And that's not easy. That's gonna take some time. Yeah, I I want to And Be very careful.

45:13 About entering the wholesale distribution network. Uh First of all one of my questions is costing and making sure That you're

45:26 meeting your margins because you are selling through your own website. I'm sure you have a cushion there. But once you get into wholesale There are gonna be all kinds of questions warning discounts, wanting uh all kinds of Um you're in their hands. They they

45:47 are also buying other brands who compete with you Um and you lose the control you have right now. So I would look at more and more opportunities where you have the control, you have the profit margin, especially if you make a mistake, especially if something happens with a fabric you bought or something goes wrong. you have a cushion because of the margin. But before you go into wholesale take a serious I would be happy to if you wanted to reach out to me, I'd be happy to

46:22 Walk you through that because It's very different. And it doesn't mean you can't do it. It's just m being very sure about every it's expanding out in your world first. to take every opportunity. But I love it. I'm I'm I'm really impressed. I really am I know you're gonna be successful. I'm positive. Thank you.

46:47 Adriana, congrats. Adriana Alvarez, love her shop. Uh good luck. We'll be Thank you so much. Congratulations. Congrats. Um Norma, before I let you go, one last question I wish I asked everybody who's been uh who's come back on as a mentor. Which is if you were to like travel back in time. to to to to the Norma in the nineteen sixties, Norma Kamal in the nineteen sixties, and you could say, Norma, I'm coming from two thousand twenty four.

47:12 With with a piece of advice, something I want you to know. W what's something that you would want her to know? About business. Well, you know, I have to say. I I really benefited from my mistakes and learning and um getting advice.

47:31 from people who really helped me along the way. And we demonstrated that, you demonstrate it. I am so impressed with your advice and you of course are an expert on entrepreneurs and Every bit of advice you gave today was stunning. It was amazing. Thank you. Uh so thank you. You deserve the reputation you have. You earned it. This is such a generous uh venture for you to take and I I just love you and I'm I'm so proud to know you. You're really an extraordinary and cry, Norma

48:11 At the same time. Well, you're the best. You know you're the best and and I hope to to come see you in New York soon. See you soon. Yes. Think is the iconic fashion designer Norma Kamali. And by the way, if you haven't heard Norma's original how I built this, uh, you've gotta go back and check it out. You can find a link to it in the podcast description, and here is one of my favorite moments from that interview. Well I started to make some things and I would put them in the store to see how they would do and they would do really well.

48:46 And so the majority of the stock slowly became my designs and I had a full page in vogue and I had a good size page in Bazaar and that was beyond belief because I thought somebody is gonna find me out. I don't know what I'm doing. And I have a full page in b in vogue and bizarre. This is nuts. Like I don't have a clue.

49:19 Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at gyros.com. Each week it's packed with tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations and experiences, interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tell us about your business, the issues, or questions you'd like help with. and hopefully we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery dot com or call us

49:58 At one eight hundred. four three three. One two nine eight. and leave a message there, and we'll put all this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Carrie Thompson with music composed by Ramptina Rablui.

50:12 It was edit by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Chris Massini, Carla Estevez, Elaine Coates, JC Howard, Catherine Seifer, Devin Schwartz, Neva Grant, and Sam Paulson. I'm Guy Roz, and you've been listening to the advice line. How I built this lab.