The Singular Life of Rick Rubin

0:00 I just made an episode about Rick Rubin's ideas on creativity. and how to do great work over and over again for a long period of time. To prepare for that episode, actually re listen to an episode. that I made about the singular life story. of Rick Rubin a few years ago. There were so many interesting ideas.

0:16 And stories in that episode. That I re-listened to it twice. So I'm going to replay that episode for you now. Before I do, I want to remind you about the great sponsors and supporters of founders. The first one is Ramp. Ramp helps your business save both time and money.

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1:03 Vanta will help your company win trusts, close deals, and stay secure. faster and with less effort, make sure you go to vanta.com forward slash founders and you will get a thousand dollars off. That is vanta.com forward slash founders. And finally, collateral helps you improve the way your company tells its own story. Collateral transforms your complex ideas into compelling narratives. Collateral crafts institutional grade marketing collateral for all types of companies. By using collateral, you improve the way that your company tells its own story. Storytelling is one of the highest forms of leverage, and you should invest heavily in it. And you can do that. by going to collateral dot com. And now here is the life story of Rick Rubin. I hope you enjoy this as much as I did.

1:45 There's no greater enigma than Rick Rubin working in record production today. His career began in hip hop. He co-founded Def Jam Records. with Russell Simmons in nineteen eighty four. He produced Rap's first number one album.

1:58 And was widely credited for launching hip hop. as a viable commercial medium. Refusing to play it safe. Ruben jumped ship from wrap to metal. Leaving Defcam.

2:08 To found another record label, Deaf American. Where he signed and produced groundbreaking acts. Like Slayer. After his work on the hugely successful red hot chili peppers A claimed album Blood Sugar Sex Magic.

2:21 Ruben was only seven years into his career. And already a living legend. Though he worked with legends like Mick Jagger, A C D C. And Tom Petty in the early nineteen nineties. It was his recordings with Johnny Cash.

2:33 That still stand out. As his most astonishing And studied collaboration. By the turn of the century. Ruben had invented.

2:41 Reinvente or redefined. So many musical genres That there was no way to categorized his style. Rolling Stones called him The most successful producer of any genre.

2:53 But the praise and album sales didn't shake Rubin's focus. As he dedicated himself To artist after artist. Grammy nominations and awards poured in. Including winning producer of the year.

3:05 But Rick Rubin Workaholic and recluse. Found too busy. To a tent. That is an excerpt from the book I'm gonna talk to you about today, which is Rick Rubin in the studio, and is written by Jake Brown.

3:17 This book Uh, wasn't even on my radar. A few weeks ago I did a podcast on Jay Z. It's episode number two thirty eight. And in that podcast, I talked about Jay-Z studying and working with Rick Rubin. And he said something that I thought was interesting. He's like Rick ain't normal. He is strange by strange standards. Rick's twenty years into his career and dude has not changed.

3:37 He's got his own vibe. You gotta love'em for that. And so after that episode came out, a listener contacted me and they're like, Hey, you should check out Lex Friedman's podcast. He just released with Rick Rubin and I started watching it. And I absolutely loved it.

3:50 And I realized as I was taking notes. listening to that episode, I was like, I need to find a biography of Rick Rubin immediately. So I'm working off of Rick Rubin's biography, the one I just read from you. I read apart to you from Uh I took notes on Lex Friedman's podcast. I'm gonna link all this below.

4:05 uh in the show notes but b below the the link to the book if you want to buy the book. Uh but I used Lex Friedman's podcast. I took notes on that. Peter or Tia's podcast, which I'll link to. And then I watched um a three part excuse me, four part documentary. on Rick Rubin's studio in Malibu. It's on Showtime. It's called Shangri La.

4:25 And then I also spent several hours listening to Rick's own podcast. I didn't even know he had a podcast and it's actually really, really good. It's called Broken Record. And listening to him speak for so many hours actually enhanced my understanding and reading of his biography. Because Rick, just like a ton of the other founders that you and I have said in the podcast. They identify a handful

4:43 of core belief That's really important to like their philosophy of w on work and life and they repeat'em over and over again. So I'm gonna jump right into the book and w one of his core beliefs is in the beauty Of simplicity. In fact it's repeated so much. I had this

4:56 This idea of Da Vinci if Leonard Da Vinci was able to speak to Rick Rubin. and say and repeat his f one of his most famous quotes which is simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. I think Rick would have smiled and nodded his head. And so we go to the first chapter. It's called Production by Reduction. This is one of my favorite ideas of Rick Rubens.

5:15 So it says when Rick enters the studio, his goal is to record music in quote its most basic and purest form. No extra bells and whistles. All we know chaff. And then's what he says. When I started producing Minimalism was my thing.

5:29 My first record actually says Instead of produced by Rick Rubin It says reduced by Rick Rubin. And he was producing that album when he was around eighteen years old. Def Jam, the company he founds, which is probably the most iconic hip hop label of all time, was actually founded by Rick Rubin in his dorm room.

5:47 at NYU. So we're gonna get into a lot of that early history because it's just fascinating. It's the s it's exact equivalent of like the Silicon Valley Starting your company out of your out of your garage. He just happened to do it in the dorm room. Going back to Rick Rubin's quote, it's still a natural part of me not to have a lot of extra stuff involved. That doesn't add to the production. And try to get to the essence of what the music is.

6:06 You want to feel like you have a relationship. With the artist. When you're done listening to their record. And then Rick describes how he works. And when I read this paragraph the the The thing that jumped out to me most was

6:18 This is exactly like Steve Jobs and his hero Edwin Land, the founder of Polaroid. How they would talk about seeing the finished product first. In their mind. And then working backwards from that be like, Okay, that's the finished state.

6:32 Now I just have to go through the steps to get there and I'm gonna read a section of this uh famous interview. But let me read uh what what Rick says about this n here. He says finding the potential and seeing how to realize it can be the best part. And then the actual work of having to get there

6:47 is just going through the process. Once you hear it in your head. It's like being a carpenter. Trying to build the thing. When you already know what it is. So that's the key.

6:57 You're trying to build the thing when you already know what it is. And so there's this famous meeting that happens when Steve Jobs still is in his twenties. Uh, Edwin Land, I think, is in his seventies at this point. Steve Jobs borrowed a lot of ideas from other people. uh obviously he he had like this deep historical knowledge and he used that deep historical knowledge and influence the work in building Apple and Pixar and everything else that he was involved in.

7:19 But the one person he took the most ideas from was uh undoubtedly Edwin Land. And so let me read this this excerpt from this meeting that they were having.

7:28 It says doctor Lan was saying I could see what the Polaroid camera should be. It was just as real to me. As if it was sitting in front of me before I had ever built one. And Steve said yes. That's exactly the way I saw the Macintosh.

7:43 He said if I was to ask If I asked someone who had only used a personal calculator What a Macintosh should be like. They couldn't have told me. There was no way to do consumer research on it.

7:52 So I had to go and create it. And then Show to people and say Now what do you think? And then this next sentence I think is the most important part and it really

8:02 Yeah. From Spending an unbelievable amount of hours probably close to forty hours studying Rick Rubin in the last couple of days. This I think this is this gets to his essence. Both of them had this ability to not invent products.

8:15 But to discover them. Both of them Sa these products have always existed. It's just that no one has ever seen them before. We were the ones who discovered them.

8:25 The Polaroid camera always existed. And the Macintosh always existed. It is a matter of discovery. So back to the book. This is where Rick.

8:34 describes like what w like what exactly do you bring to Like you're a producer, but he's not a technical producer. And really when he describes the role that he plays with the bands and the artists and the rappers and the musicians that he works with. I'm like, Oh, he's the founder. He's playing the role of the founder. Check this out. Uh l listen to what he says and yeah I think it'll make sense to you.

8:53 Uh he says says it's almost more like I join a band when I produce a record. But I'm unlike all the other members of the band who each have their own personal agenda. The bass player is concerned about the bass part. Everyone else is concerned about their own part. I'm the only member of the band

9:09 That doesn't care about any of those particulars. I just care. That the whole thing Is as good as it can be. My goal

9:18 is to just get out of the way. And let the people I'm working with be the best versions of themselves. And then Rick goes into the process of like how do I choose He's gonna say something here that I found

9:32 Almost on the identical thought when I read all of Warren Buffett's shareholder letters. I think it's uh founders episode eighty eight if you haven't listened to that yet. But he says I like so little in the first place, meaning so little music in the first place. Very few records come out that interest me at all. Very few bands do I ever see that interest me at all. I don't like anything.

9:51 That's mediocre. I like it when people take things to their limit. And so that line where he's like there's just so v there's very few records that are that are great that are really interesting. Uh, so Warren Buffett was talking w in the show letters was talking about the fact that him and Charlie Munger have spent Decade after decade after decade of intense

10:09 Focus in studying of business just like Rick Rubin has spent decade after decade. of intense focus on music, right? So Rick Rubin starts his career And eighteen. He's turning sixty next year, maybe this year. And he's still doing the same job. That's what made me

10:24 I'm interested in him in general because that's so many people that I like, admire and respect also like and admire and respect him. So I was like, Okay, it's clear no brainer. I should study this guy, I can clearly learn from something from him. But I'm obsessed. Absolutely obsessed. with people that do things for an extremely long time. How many people that you know?

10:41 Габінворкін сам. Are studying the same field. Dedicating their their the life. To the same thing for forty one years. That's also why Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger are so interesting to me.

10:53 The fact is they're, you know, ninety eight, uh I think Charlie's ninety eight now and I think more in something like ninety three or ninety two, and they're still working on the same thing they've been interested in. Since they were, you know, in Warren's case, a teenager. It's a war on rights. Our major contribution to the operations of our subsidiaries, meaning the businesses that he owns Is a plause.

11:11 It's not the indiscriminate applause of a Pollyanna. That's like an old school word I had to look up. It's just like an excessively cheerful or optimistic person. So he's like it's not we're we're not just applauding'cause we're just excited or we're optimistic. Rather it's informed applause. That was a really interesting phrase he he chose there.

11:29 Rather it is the informed applause. based upon the two long careers That we have spent intensively observing business performance and managerial behavior.

11:40 And so Warren's saying before I get to his punchline, he's saying, listen, me and Charlie have dedicated our lives to this, we've seen a ton of different businesses. The vast majority are mediocre, just like Rick Rubin saying the vast majority of anything. is going to be mediocre. And so if Rick Rubin is admiring what you're doing, just like if Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett are admiring what you're doing. That it that there's like a added importance on their opinion, right? And this is why.

12:03 Charlie and I have seen so much of the ordinary in business. That we can truly appreciate A virtuoso Perform. And if you work back from what he's saying.

12:14 is most businesses Or poorly run. or averagely are run in an average manner. Most managers, most

12:22 CEOs. are either poor at their job Or average. So it pays to pay attention to the people that are putting on virtuoso performances. They know something that others don't. And then two more things from this section that we've s that you and I have talked about over and over again. Love what you do or find something else. Love

12:39 Est Lauder who's once said, Love your career or find another. That's the perfect way to describe it. So he says the bottom line for Ruben to take on any projects is I'm falling in love. When he feels like he's falling in love. With the artist, with their with their work. He's like, Okay, this is the person

12:54 I want to work with. Think about the best products or services that you happen to use personally. They're undoubtedly can be traced back to somebody that gives a damn. They truly love What they do.

13:05 And then he goes to this is I mean I've I feel like the entire last well on the the in and out um the podcast I did on the founder of In and Out Burger. I think like he just had one Essentially one thing he just repeats over and over again. It's like I'm not sacrificing quality for anything. Not sacrificing for a partner, not sacrificing it for employees, anybody. I'm going to

13:24 Pray at the altar of quality above all. Rick Rubin says the same thing. I believe in the quality of content Over everything else. This is also something he he repeats over and over again in all the interviews I watch with him. So we spend me and the artists spend a great deal of time working on material Long before

13:41 We ever think about going into the recording studio. This is so so important. I I would summarize in the maxim that I repeat to you over and over again, the public praises people for what they practice in private. The public praises people for what they practice in private. So before you hear this album Where they go into the studio and they record And in many cases I would go through um'cause the book goes through in order, like from the eighties, nineties all the way up to two thousands. This book is still almost fifteen years old, so it's missing out on like his his latest stuff.

14:08 But it goes through like His approach and every single project like not every single one, but m some of his like most his best or like classic projects, like how what role did he play? What were his thoughts? All that stuff. It was very fascinating. So what I would do is as I uh I would read the chapters I'd also be listening to some of the albums, but that idea about how long. He's like, Listen, you can't predict sometimes it takes a few months.

14:31 Sometimes we're working on a the same album. For multiple years. And so in that documentary Shangri Law He's talking to LL Cool J. L. Cool J winds up being one of the first people he signs. He signs L O Cool J. when El Old J was sixteen years old.

14:44 Rick Ru moves twenty. That's how I'll get there. It's a crazy how that happens too. So a lot of ideas for us uh in that section. But they're so they're talking now as older men. This documentary just came in the last few years. And he says something to uh L O S like what what increases the chances of like writing a great song? And he says just

15:02 Practice. Be diligent. In the process of always looking. If you need ten songs. You might need to write fifty.

15:10 Or a thousand songs. To find ten good ones. It's like fishing. You can't say that you'll catch a fish today. But you show up and fish every day and your chances get better.

15:21 And so that is another main theme, I think, of the the philosophy of Rick Rubin. is the fact that he's obsessed with simplicity. He wants Only what what is essential, right? But to get to to whittle down to get to that simplicity. He will encourage you to do more. He is by far a workaholic, for sure.

15:38 And so he's like, if I wanna get the the ten most perfect songs We might have to go through fifty, a hundred A thousand songs. And I think that's extremely important. to keep in mind how much work is required. You cannot deceive yourself about what what the what this game requires. That's a quote from uh

15:55 Michael Jordan. But I think about like what Steve Jobs said. He's like listen, when you're designing a product It's keeping five thousand things in your brain. And fitting them all together in new and different ways. And then I would combine that quote from Steve Jobs with another one of my favorite quotes of his. And he says there's a tremendous amount of craftsmanship.

16:11 between an idea and a finished product. And that's exactly what uh Rick Rubin is describing to us in this book. We spend a great deal of time Working on material. Long before we ever think about going into a recording studio. I do the exact same thing. The reason I feel comfortable

16:27 ask like recommending founders to my friends and family and people I truly, you know, care about, the most important people in my life. Effort and work goes into every single episode. Before I sit down to talk to you, without exception, before every single episode. I have to read at the very minimum.

16:44 I have to read an entire book? And in Rick Rubin's case, I've I told you, I've probably spent forty hours Like d deeply ingesting Who he is as a person, the how he thinks. And then you have to filter through all that to maybe get, you know, maybe I could talk to you for an hour, maybe two hours. I don't even know how long it's gonna last because I'm barely a few pages into this book.

17:02 I haven't Even got to the beginning of the copious amount of notes I took, but Um I just I really believe that with with my entire soul. I think the best thing the things that you and I most admire. They spent a great deal of time, way more time, than we could ever believe.

17:16 working on it before we ever get to see it. And so I just turned the page and I ran over my own point. The no left myself on this is Ruben's advice. Do more. Uh, Ruben feels the real work of making an album is in the songwriting. But that work can be drudgery.

17:31 Writing is dull and and unglamorous stuff for most people. It's really pretty miserable. But if you write thirty songs. There's a better chance. that the that the ten on your album

17:42 Will be re will be better than if you just write ten. So he's like less is more, but you have to do more to get to less. It's the way I would describe. Rick's philosophy. And then he talks about something over and over again. He's like, Listen, you you need to have an open mind. He's like we know next to nothing. So the idea you can predict

17:58 ha like you you have an idea of what a great product is, but the idea is you you can you're gonna get it right the first time. He's like you've got to experiment You've got to iterate. I would say this reminds me very much of I I've told you my favorite book that I've ever read for the podcast was James Dyson's autobiography. I read two of them. His second autobiography when he wrote as an old man is very interesting, but the one that he wrote Right after having

18:18 struggling for fifteen years and finally Dyson is on, you know, somewhat solid footing. But when you publish that book between na then and now His business is like Right. Three hundred times bigger.

18:29 But that book is all about the struggle, the early days of that every single person is trying to do something difficult, whether you're starting a company. Trying to be a musician, whatever it is. You know that story. You felt you've lived that story. And in that book he just constantly talks about he's like, This man, just experiment. He calls it the Edison from Thomas Edison.

18:46 the Edison principle of designing a product. And I think Steve Jobs would agree with that too. Or it's not Steve Jobs. I think Rick Rubin would agree with that too,'cause listen to what he's about to say. This is one of the things we talk about at the beginning of a project. Let's try every idea.

18:59 And see where it takes us. Don't prejudge it. Sometimes it still comes up. Where someone in the band makes a suggestion and part of me says That's a bad idea.

19:08 Let's not waste time on that. And then I stop myself and think Let's try it. Let's experiment. And see what it sounds like. And very often

19:17 It sounds good. So think about the the the lesson behind with that simple paragraph, right? It's like you gotta try it. There's so many times in my own experience. Where if somebody says something like oh That's gonna suck.

19:27 And then we do it. And it doesn't suck. So clearly the lesson is you got to experiment. Just Don't prejudge it. Create a demo, create a prototype.

19:36 Put it out to some customers, whatever it your process is. And then see what happens. This next sentence is really important. I double underlined it. Ruben's most valuable quality is his own confidence. The reason that's important is because you can transfer that feeling, that confidence that you have

19:51 to other people. Yeah, I so every day my form of practice is I go back and I reread past highlights from all the books and I have over twenty thousand highlights, right? And one I just happened to be reading yesterday, which I had forgot because Steve Jobs, when he was young, he um One of his his best friends had joined like this religious cult in San Francisco. Her name's Elizabeth.

20:12 And part of the cult's rules were that you have to cut off everybody from your life. Um and Steve Jobs just shows up at the Colt House. And he just completely rejected that. He's like, Nope, she's coming with me And there's nothing you can do about it. And so they wind up traveling to this apple farm. And they talk about

20:28 uh the fact that sh Elizabeth was telling the story about Steve Jobs And she said something that was really fascinating, and she said he had the attitude. That he could do anything. And therefore so can you. And she talks about the fact that sh he helped her

20:43 Believe in herself. She didn't have the confidence. Obviously if you're really strong personality. probably not going to be joining some kind of religious cult. But the fact that he had this this abundance of confidence, like oh I should have that self confidence too. And I think Rick is really known for that because I I listened to a lot of the people that he that uh that he produced records for.

21:01 And they said that they're like, he brought out the best of me. He made me believe in myself. And in some cases it's really crazy'cause people were super successful, like Johnny Cash said that. Neil Diamond. All these people that had Remarkable careers. And maybe they struggled for a few years and so their confidence was dented.

21:17 Which is shocking, that Johnny Cash, right, one of the most legendary musicians to ever live. Towards the end of his life, before he starts do I think he did th the last three albums of his life, he did with Rick Rubin. It's just like oh I didn't I didn't think I had it anymore. Uh so it's go back to this. Um this goes back to uh to R Rubin's

21:34 fanaticism with just stripping everything down to its essence. He loves minimalism, simplicity. A good test of a song's metal is stripping down to its basics. If a s this is what he says, if a song is great on an acoustic guitar you can make a hundred different versions of that song and it's gonna still be great. Then he goes back to the importance of

21:51 Preparing before you show up. He says as detailed and lengthy as the pre production process can be. Rubin's productions tend to be quite short. On actual in studio time.

22:01 And that's what he says, I often make records faster than a lot of other people. It usually has to do with how prepared we are in advance. It's the pre production time. That really makes all the difference. Sometimes it's a couple of weeks, sometimes it's a few months, sometimes it's a year or two.

22:16 to get ready to go into the studio. And cut the whole album in a week. My preference is always to get as much done before you go in. to the studio as possible.

22:28 more advice for artists I think we can apply to whatever work that we're doing. You combine really high expectations with the belief that your life depends on this work. Rubin continues to rally his collaborators, asking the asking them to set their expectations of themselves really high. If we're gonna do this, let's aim for greatness. You have to believe.

22:46 What you were doing. Is the most important thing. In the world. And so not only in this book, but also in a bunch of the the conversations I hear I heard uh him have. He talks about his role. He thinks almost like uh the roles like a coach or some what of a like a teacher.

23:01 And so this is a little bit about that. And he says, Listen, a key part of my job is simply listening. A lot of artists really like having someone To bounce things off of. Because it's hard to truly know. This is very similar to what

23:13 Uh when I covered Charlie Munger's fantastic biography. Damn right is the name of the book. It's episode two twenty one. He said something in that book. that I thought was really fantastic. He talks about the role he played with Warren Buffett. He says, Listen, everybody engaged in complicated work.

23:28 Needs colleagues. Just the discipline. Of having to put your thoughts in order with somebody else. is a very useful thing. So which the process Charlie's describing is the exact same process.

23:40 That Rick Rubin is describing that he has. Charlie has it with Warren Buffett and some of their business partners. Rick Rubin has it. with the musicians that he's producing for. And then he continues describing his

23:51 the his process of how he works. But I'm gonna read you a couple of highlights from these two pages. The way I would summarize the section for my own thoughts. was that your work is a reflection of you. And so says although he's a very private person, Ruben doesn't shy away from making his professional life Very personal.

24:06 I'm doing things that touch me personally. And that I feel and I am moved by. Rubin is very clear on what his strengths and limitations are. I don't know how to work a board. I don't turn knobs.

24:17 I have no technical ability whatsoever. My primary asset is I know when I like something or not. It always comes down to taste. I'm there for any key creative decision.

24:29 He summed up the drive behind his life's work very simply. I'm just trying to make my favorite music. And so think about that line. I'm just trying to make my favorite music. On one of these podcasts I was listening to, he was asked Do you have any advice for young people? And he says the only advice I have is to not listen to anyone. And do what you love.

24:48 And make your favorite things. Be the audience. Be the audience. Make the thing for you. The audience.

24:56 You can't make something great. with someone else in mind So then we're gonna get into his early life. So he had three main loves. that he discovered really early. His love of music, his love of magic. And his love of professional wrestling.

25:09 So he's gotta pick one, right? He obviously chose music. But his love of magic and his love of professional wrestling. he uses those influences in his work. He did it from a very young age. He still continues to use it to this day. And so it says Ruben spent his formative years in the hard rock glory days of the nineteen seventies. I loved A C D C, he said.

25:26 The group's minimalist approach would show up years later. In his sonic approach to recording rock records. And even in the way he constructed. Hip hop ums. And this is what he says, there's so little adornment. So going back to that that mean theme, simplify

25:39 His push for minimalism just I want the essence of the song and nothing more. In fact he talks about something that's very interesting. Let me find the my note on it real quick. This is really one of the clearest ways he described and like why he constantly simplifies, like why I'm not a producer, I'm a reducer, is the way to think of it. I'm not a producer, I'm a reducer. That's a f a really fascinating thought if you if you sit there and think about it for a while. This is the reason he simplifies. He says often when you're in the studio, there'll be an idea

26:03 That we need to add layers to make the song seem bigger. But what we discovered is sometimes the more things you add The smaller it gets. And a lot of that is counterintuitive. You need to discover in practice.

26:17 So back to his early life it says Ruben immersed himself in the world of rock and roll. He had the requisite long hair, the leather jacket And a position as a lead guitarist in a punk band. One part of the lifestyle though he avoided entirely was alcohol and drugs and on the Peter Tia uh interview. Like why so many people including that that Rick

26:38 worked with. Like they died of drug and alcohol. overdoses and so there is a There is a discipline and it seems weird'cause you look at the guy, maybe hear him speak, he seems kinda calm and mellow. But he has extreme levels of discipline.

26:52 And Part of that discipline is Just avoiding things. Like not trying to be brilliant, but avoiding obviously th uh obvious dumb things. Obviously things that that are not good for your life. No one thinks, hey

27:02 heroin's good for my life. Hey uh Excessive cocaine habit is good for my life. Drinking all the time is good for my life. And so it says one of the part of that that lifestyle he avoided entirely was alcohol and drugs, Ruben had a discipline and focus

27:14 rare for someone his age. And he just explains it very simply like everything else. I just didn't want to give up any of my time. I was deeply into something, meaning music. So his love of music kept Ruben from the need to distract or entertain himself with drugs. Before music, his deep focus was on magic. From the time I was nine years old, I loved magic. Even though I was a little kid.

27:34 I take the train from Long Island into Manhattan And I'd hang out in magic shops. I still think about magic. All the time. Ruben's fascination with and love for magic and music.

27:45 was something that delighted his endlessly supportive parents. So this is good. His mom and dad. Just They were he had d dreams. Not dreams. He his idea is like you can't make money in music. Like I that was just gonna be a hobby. So he's like originally saying I'll go to N Y U

27:59 Then I'll go to law school and the idea is like I'll just have a day job and then I'll make music as a hobby. And the day job just uh allows me to fund my hobby. And no matter what, like the fact that he his parent he told his parents he's gonna be attorney He switches off. He's like, I'm gonna be this mute music producer. I'm gonna go to California, I'm gonna Do all these things and his parents like, Okay, that sounds good to me. So says his parents were endlessly supportive who showed the same devotion to their son

28:21 as he did to his passions. Ruben's mother would drive him to concerts in New York City, wait outside the venue until the show is over. No matter how late the hour and then drive her son home for a few precious hours of sleep. Before waking him up for school the next day.

28:35 And then his quote for his senior year, they say it's his graduation quote was pretty prophetic. And it gives you an idea of who this person is. I wanna play loud, I wanna be heard. And I want all to know. I'm not one of the herd.

28:48 And so now we get into the founding of his first company. At the beginning of every section there's like these quotes, this advice from Rick Rubin. This is the first one. The key to it. is doing what you believe in. As opposed to what you think is going to work.

29:01 There were never any plans to make anything happen. I just did what I liked and believed in it. And luckily it all worked out. And so the birth of him making music and him eventually founding Def Jam. is because he just saw a gap in the market. It wasn't anything more complicated than that.

29:18 Rubin began his career as a DJ. throwing parties in his NYU dorm room. The move from DJ to producer resulted from a dearth Of good material for him to play. I didn't know anything about the record business.

29:30 But I recognize that hip hop records that were coming out That I would buy as a fan. And the music that I would hear when I go to the club were two different things. What I set out to do as a fan, he repeats it.

29:42 Was to make records. That sounded like what I liked about going to a hip hop club. So his point is This is very it's like think about the the top down nature of most industries, top down nature of the music industry at this time. It's like no, this is What we're making.

29:57 But that that comes from like executives or the cases, like this is what we're pushing out. Where Th what's taking place in these underground hip hop and and and metal clubs that he's going to. And this is the early eighties.

30:09 That is the bottom up. Because as the DJ you play something. You get immediate feedback from the audience. The record executives are separated from what the actual customer wants, right? It's like no, we're pushing this down the channel. Ruman's like, Why don't we just

30:22 Like why don't we just make records? that we like be and we know we like them because when they get they they get played at this clothes room people go crazy. Again, that's like a simple idea that you can build a pot like a very valuable company around. I remember hearing Elon Musk gave this interview one time. There's a documentary. That Elon watch and I happen to watch it too. It's like Who Killed the Electric Car, I think it's called.

30:40 And GM had done an electric car. And they uh they made maybe like I don't know, like a thousand, two thousand, or some small number like that. But that electric car. Helligate court following. So much that when GM closed the program, they repossessed the cars. You couldn't

30:53 Own them. If I'm not mistaken the releasing, I could be mistaken on the details, but the the punchline I remember correctly. And so the people were so distraught that GM forcibly removed their cars from them. that when they went to Like be impounded and essentially GM destroy the cars.

31:09 They held a candlelight vigil. And so Elon said that and I heard him in an interview one time he goes When's the last time you somebody held a candlelight vigil vigil for a product? That one simple sentence. Like clearly there's a demand here if we if I can build an electric car. And make it affordable, like people will respond. When is the last time

31:26 You heard. Of people having a candlelight vigil for a product. So I just love I'm I'm completely obsessed. With these like these just basic observations like Oh, that's pretty simple. I can actually build a very valuable company, a very very valuable life just off that. And Rick's like, Well

31:41 This is weird. I'm buying hip hop albums. Right, and they sound one way. But when I go to the club People are going crazy for hip hop bombs that sound completely different. Why don't we just make more of those? And so he says, I s just saw this void and I started making those records.

31:55 Just because I was a fan. And wanted them to exist. So this is where he starts Def Jam. He's like, All right. So he he does a song, it's called It's Yours. It's one of the first things he produced and again He because he he's a fan. he knows what other like what he likes and he clearly knows because he's going to the clubs what other people like.

32:13 He's like, Okay, I'm gonna make this record, I'm gonna make an album just because no one else is doing this, so I have to do it. His goal here is like I'm just gonna break even, right? I just wanna cover my cost so I can keep making records. Watch what happens next. This is wild. It's just incredible. This is another example of like one opportunity leading to the next opportunity leads to a next opportunity. You can't skip steps. Like you gotta get that first opportunity. Then once you get to it like I think about it like climbing stairs.

32:35 Or maybe climbing mountain. Like once you get to that next peak, you you look around the corner or look over and you're like, Oh, there's something else. Farther away I couldn't see at the very bottom of the mountain. But now I can then I can reach that. So it says Ruben approached the production of the song from a fan's point of view. Ruben borrowed five thousand dollars from his parents to press the single.

32:51 imprinting Def Jam records on it. And he says, Myself strictly for the purpose of breaking even, making back my costs. That was always my plan. As it turned out, this record was a hit.

33:03 It sold one hundred tausen copies. In the New York area. That was a very big deal. That is insane. And then he does something he did something smart too on the sleeve. So when you you're buying a physical record, right? It's a literally a record.

33:19 on the sleeve the director comes in, you put Deaf Jam recording. And put his address. The address for Def Jam. Was his dorm room. And that's gonna open up the next opportunity.

33:28 The single sleeve. Listed Rubin's New York address. And that launched an onslaught of demos. Which help fuel the fires of Def Jam.

33:38 So I'm gonna get to why w that was so important. But first we gotta he's realizing, hey, this business is screwy. Despite the song's success, Ruben never never made a dime on the record. So This is all coming full circle because in that podcast I did on Jay Z, Jay Z talks about he said, Listen, man, I studied The reason I came in the the game independent, I own my own record label, which is extremely rare when J Z did that in ninety six.

33:59 'Cause he studied the founding of Def Jam. And he learned from it. He read that book, I think it's called Hitman. Hitman or Hitman. And it talks about all the people that were making the music and putting the music out And doing all the work.

34:12 None of those guys got paid. It was all the record executives and the COs that came through. Yeah, this is this is uh uh tales all the time. This is where we are in the story. With that so essentially like we're living through right now what Jay Z's gonna learn from

34:24 Ten years later. So it says enter Russell Simmons. So this is going to be Rick Rubin's co founder. This is also going to be the guy, Russell Simmons, that Jay Z talked about he's like He was an he was an informal mentor for me.

34:37 I go to meet with him when we're getting signed to Def Jam, I'm sitting across the co the the table from him is like I don't wanna be your artist, I wanna be you. I wanna be the hip hop mogul. There was no such thing as a hip hop mogul until Russell Simmons appeared. He was the very first hip hop mogul. So it says uh un enter Russell Simmons on the recommendation of some other

34:55 Record owner. So some other record owner, record label owner is the one that's going to introduce Rick Rubin and Russell Simmons. And the reason that Rick wanted to meet with him because that guy said of Simmons, no one promotes rap records better. Rubin felt that while most of the rap records at the time weren't any good. See that that thing same thing pops up. A lot of the stuff's out there's mediocre.

35:14 So I'm thinking, hey, most of the rap records aren't very good. The ones that were good always had Russell Simmons' name on them. So he's the manager. of the best wrap acts around in in Rubin's opinion. That partnership.

35:27 Would revolutionize hip hop began with a simple meeting. And Russell's talking about, hey, that album you just produced, the one he sold a hundred thousand copies, I say I love it. He said it was his favorite record and he was excited to meet me and he couldn't believe that I was white. There was nobody white doing anything in hip hop.

35:42 And here h was his favorite hip hop record made by a white guy. I was really excited to meet him. He was already a mogul of rap music. Even though there was no business. It was just a small

35:53 Underground seat. The two became fast friends. We did everything together. We would be together in the studio every night. Ruben and Simmons shared a love of hip hop. a vision of where they felt it should h head

36:04 Both musically and commercially. And one other thing. Both had hit records under their belts. But no profit to show for it. And so they both arrive at the conclusion, like this is dumb.

36:16 These people aren't paying us, so let's just do it ourselves. And so it says Def Jam was set up to overcome business obstacles. Instead of going to somebody and asking them. To this is Ruben talking. Instead of going to somebody and asking them to do things that needed to get done and not getting them done, it's just easier if we take on the responsibility.

36:32 It wasn't gonna get done unless we did it. So Ruben needed an artist to launch Def Jam, the hip hop version of Def Jam, right? The one he's doing with uh Russell Simmons. And

36:42 The reason I said like you it's the importance of like stacking one opportunity on another. Is if he never had that hit single. And if he never put his address on it. he would have never met L Cool J. So

36:54 That's one opportunity he had to get to before he got to his next opportunity. This is the next opportunity. Rubin had just the right artist to launch the new formalized partnership. A young rapper whose demo Was one of the hundreds. That had been sent to his dorm room.

37:07 L L Cool J, who is sixteen years old at this time. And Ruben's giving us context of Just he's in the very early days. A

37:16 Gigantic. industry. The hip hop industry is massive. He says there's no there were no stars in rap music. It was really just a work of passion. Everyone who was doing it was doing it because they loved it.

37:28 Not because anyone thought it was a career. We just tried to do something we liked. How many times has we repeated that? We're Not even one quarter of the way in in the book. And he said, I just did something I loved.

37:38 Just try to focus like I'm the first listener, I'm the first customer. We just try to do something we like. There was no expectations whatsoever. The only hope Was that we would sell enough records to make enough money to make another record.

37:51 Rick Rubin and Russell Simmons is only gonna last for a few years. But while they were together, they actually They were well matched because It it's really important to find a partner that has the skills you lack. So Ruben is going to be in the studio with the artists making the records.

38:04 And then Simmons is going to be the one promoting that. And he was really g both of them were really gifted. At They're So it says

38:13 Ruben then would then pass the baton to Simmons, whose promotional expertise Push the fresh new fresh new sound of the music onto the airwaves of local hip hop stations and into the city's hip hop clubs. Simmons had a talent in old school hustling. So they wind up selling so many of these singles.

38:30 That CBS records. Gets their attention. And they offer a development deal. With a six hundred thousand dollar advance.

38:39 Which was more money than they could e even imagine at the time. And so it says time would prove this deal to be merely a foot in the door. That they would kick open a year later. But for twenty year old Rick Rubin, it was a major milestone. I sent a Xerox of the check to my parents.

38:54 That's when this stopped being a hobby. And so then Russell Simmons has a really smart Marketing. push, he's like let's make a movie about the story. of the early years of Def Jam'cause we're just a few years into the story.

39:06 That movie he winds up getting made is Crush Groove. And it was a movie, but it was really content marketing for Def Jam and their artists. You can actually find the entire Crush Groove movie is on YouTube right now. So actually watching it last night. And Rick Rubin plays Rick Rubin in the in the in the movie. It's fantastic. Crush Groove was a marketing vehicle.

39:25 Russell Simmons dreamed up. to introduce their label and artist roster. So it introduced the world to people like fat boys. LL Cool J, the Beastie Boys. And run DMC.

39:36 And the reason I'm bringing this to your attention is the the next sentence that I double underline that I think is extremely important for all founders or anybody trying to get attention to their work, right? Russell really cared about finding new ways. to expose their music. to a bigger audience. It is very creative. And the person I think did this

39:54 the best out of anybody that that that in recent memory to me. Is Michael Bloomberg, and I didn't know that before I read his autobiography. Found's two twenty eight. If you haven't listened to it. the main listening l main reason to listen to that podcast, uh other than his story is insane. The fact that he owns that company. It's still a private company, makes billions of dollars a year right now. Michael Bloomberg had a lot of creative ways to get

40:14 His product in front. of potential customers and that skill is the foundation what allowed his business to grow into a a large, extremely profitable business. But he's just So clever the way he thought about these things and what he actually put into work. Very similar to this. Like the idea is like

40:32 Who's gonna think hey? I'm starting a record label. I've sold a little bit of singles. Clubs like my music, the radio likes my music, I have you know, four or five acts sign to my record label. All of them are gonna be super famous in their own day, but they're not famous yet. And it's like hey, let's make a movie.

40:47 This is nineteen eighty eight, maybe, eighty somewhere around there, eighty six, like mid to late eighties. How the hell did you even figure out that idea? Like that's remarkable. And so on the back of some of the success of their music that they put out. they wind up finding a Warner Brothers studio.

41:03 agrees to fund the three million dollar film budget. So says Warner Brothers agreed to finance the three million dollar film budget. The picture's green light. led CBS, who had they had signed their deal with, to change the terms of their original development deal. These are the people that just gave them six hundred grand, right? Now they change that like wow, you guys are getting real popular. They changed the original development deal with Def Jam, signing Def Jam to a two million dollar distribution deal.

41:26 In what Russell Simmons described as the greatest opportunity in the whole world. And again, this is happening in eighty five, so that they sign that deal in in in eighty five. So think about that. Like within one year they go from six hundred thousand, this is amazing. Can't believe this is happening. to

41:41 signing for two million and having a major motion picture studio. Agree to finance three million dollars. of what is essentially content marketing in the form of a movie. And it winds up being a smart investment by Warner Warner Brothers, by the way,'cause they spent three million in the movie and the movie winds up making eleven million dollars at the box office. One of the biggest hits that Rick Rubin's gonna have in this point of his career, like a mainstream hit.

42:03 Beastie Boys winds up being the first hip hop album ever. To go to number one, which he produced. But he does he has the idea to do this crossover song between Run D M C And Aerosmith. And run DMC is

42:16 Kind of well known at the time. Aerosmith is like orders of magnitude more famous. And This would have never happened. If Rick Rubin didn't have an ex

42:25 Excessive. excessive amount of self confidence. This is something that It's talked about over and over again by the people he works with that he believes so much that he makes you believe. Very similar to that Steve Jobs quote I just read to you earlier. And so I'm gonna get into this. It says Ruben's desire to work with Rum D and C

42:40 Dated back to the early eighties. When Ruben upon hearing the group's first music had boldly commented This is the real shit. But I could do it better.

42:49 And so that level of self confidence, right? You need that that level of some confidence is mandatory. to even approach. So he's like, Yeah, not only can I do it better. I'm gonna convince Aerosmith. Who We're again world famous. They're like

43:02 operating in a completely different world than Rick Rubin. He's like, Okay, well I'm gonna sell both Run DM C And Aerosmith. On walk this way. So it says Ruben sold both groups on the idea and once they were together It was interesting, this is what he says. It was interesting because it was very two very two very different cultures.

43:17 We were j all kids. But Aerosmith was already Aerosmith. They carry themselves in a different way than we did. 'Cause they were real rock stars. And we were college students.

43:26 It was an awe inspiring experience for me. Because I grew up on Aerosmith and I love them. I also knew how great they were. So I became fair and then the Think about this how crazy it is. Like I admire them. They're almost like my idols.

43:38 And yet when he gets in there and and running the the production of this this of the music, he still applies his His excessive I wouldn't say control'cause that's not the right word, but it's like his high standards. So says so I became fairly demanding with What I asked them to play and contribute.

43:54 Both sides really didn't know what to make of it. And so this is another example of something that Ruben uses for his entire career. He wants authenticity, just like other humans. Like he wants it to be really simple. So his vision for the music for what they're doing with Rend DM Cerosmith is also the vision that he applies over and over again. His vision was to capture something raw. musical and ferocious.

44:16 The music that we liked wasn't glossy and shiny, he said. It sounded rough and raw. Authentic. It was raw. Like a documentary.

44:27 So it's like I'm not making a movie, I'm making a documentary. That's interesting. It was raw, authentic. Use that word raw over and over again. It's not glossy and shiny. It sounded rough and raw. And then on the very next page he continues to elaborate on that perspective. The music we were making wasn't slick.

44:43 There's a home made and handmade quality to it. So think about that. is a product that gets to scale, right? It's not just one person's listening to it. How many people have listened to Walk This Way over the life of that song?

44:55 Tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of people. So I I th thought that idea was really fascinating. It's like the it's a handmade product. At scale. A handmade product. At scale.

45:06 So after that he gets the biggest opportunity, the biggest breakthrough of his early career, and that's when he's going to produce Beastie Boys album License to Ill. This winds up being what he's working on. Winds up being hip hop's first number one album. it's the first time it's like oh wow, this is the very beginning of an industry that's going to grow even larger. Think about this, ten years later, Jay Z's still looking at that's why it's so important to like

45:28 In my opinion, to go back and study the very beginnings of industries, right? We've done this, you and I have done this together. Beginning of Silicon Valley. Not only it's like the computer chip industry.

45:38 the personal computer industry, the software industry. I just did a podcast on the very beginning of the aviation industry. I've done like thirteen podcasts on the very beginning of the American automotive industry. There is so many things that just happen over and over again. They're all making different things. Some people are making computer chips, some making software, some people are making planes, cars, Rick Rubin's making hip hop music. It's the same thing. You think it's too late, and it's over and over again people like Oh, uh you know it's too late. It's already the the ship has already passed. No.

46:04 These things take forever. So at this point we're in the story. Ten years later. Jay Z like, Hey, I can't say that I thought I was gonna get rich off rap. All I knew that it was clear.

46:15 Clearly going to be a lot bigger than it is now. Before it goes away. And then think about the growth between nineteen ninety six when he said that. And in present day, you know, twenty five, whatever, twenty twenty five years later. It's still growing.

46:27 So he was just dead on right about that. So J wanna pull out one thing from from from this section. And then I wanna transition. I gotta I got a ton of highlights with the with the book, but I wanna go through my notes that I have actually uh written on all these talks that he gave because I think I'll I'm gonna forget to do that. And there's a lot of valuable things. So maybe I'll just give you like a stream of consciousness of of Ruman's ideas and then we'll jump back into the book.

46:48 So this is Ruben talking about and the reason I I wanted to read the notes is because this is something that he talks about over and over again. It's only done when it can't be any better. But once something's done, just Like give it the time to be what it needs to be, but then move on. Like you shouldn't He's got a really interesting way to not have regrets, which I think is very powerful for for us,'cause having regrets so detrimental to it's so common in humanity and also so detrimental to us.

47:12 So says Rubinick maintained total autonomy. Yeah, we're mixing the record and was in no rush. He says, Listen, I would love for it to be done. But the reality of the creative process is it takes however long it takes To be great.

47:25 Very similar kinda echoes with These fights. that Walt Disney would have with his brother. His brother was his partner. His brother's running the money. Well, Disney's obviously making the products.

47:36 And he says, I'll tell you what it costs when it's done. We're innovating. I don't know why these things pop to my mind. When I read these certain sentences, it always draws back to something else you and I have talked about, but That's what I thought of there. It's like listen, I would love it for be done.

47:48 You know, I clearly don't want to be spending more time and money than needs to be, but it's not perfect yet. It's not what I'm ha I'm not happy with it. And he was right to do that because He held on to it till he was ready. And then he releases it and it just opens up opportunity for Literally millions of people in the future.

48:03 That's how crazy. Like that's how We you and I know like found if you have founder mentality, like you know the world's not static. We can push it, we can bend it, we can actually influence the external world. It's crazy. At this point he's he's mixing and he's recording this album.

48:19 In a recording studio that used to be a Chin old Chinese restaurant. And it was like this biggest dumpy place'cause they don't have a lot of money. And you're just able, even without the best equipment, the best resources He's able to make something truly, truly great. I find that personally extremely inspiring.

48:35 And then before I jump to my notes, I just want to read one sentence to you that I double underlined. It's I just said, listen, we're still so so early. In all these things in the internet. In podcasts. In just a million different in technology in general.

48:48 So it says rap music. As recorded work. Was just eight years old. Okay, so I'm just gonna run through a couple like uh give you a stream of Rick Rubin consciousness. So you can download Th these are I don't even know if these these ideas are really related. I just thought they were so interesting that when I heard them I pressed pause.

49:06 And kept rewinding'til I wrote it down. Basically I'm reading you like oh I need to remember this. Like I don't want this to just to disappear. Like I wanna have record of it. So I can go and reference it in the future. And maybe it gives me an idea.

49:19 You know, maybe it doesn't give me an idea today, maybe it gives me an idea, you know, ten years from now. Five years from now, whatever is. So he has this idea he calls the ruthless edit. Again. ta his whole thing is you gotta do more to get to less, right? Less is better, but you gotta do more to get there. So he says, Listen, you made twenty five songs.

49:34 You need ten. Do not pick ten. Ask yourself What are the five? That I absolutely cannot live without.

49:42 And then before you add anything else. Ask What could I add to these five? That I cannot live without That would make it better.

49:51 And not worse. So that is the idea of Ruth was edit. I love that idea. This was This might be my favorite thing he he said.

49:59 'Cause I have I I have this like negative internal monologue that I think is absent from Ruben. And I think if I learn how to adapt like his mindset more than my own mindset, I'll have a more like I'll have a more enjoyable experience for the rest of my life, right? So he says Do you have an engineer? Of constant dissatisfaction. Like do you have this constant self criticism?

50:18 That oh I could have done better, which is very common. That I've heard a lot of people have. But his answer was really surprising. He says no. I'm pleased with the work that we did. I'm excited to keep working.

50:29 It's fun. I don't know what else I'd do with myself. I like making things. It's fun. I feel like oh this is so good. This is so good.

50:37 I feel like it's my reason to be on the planet. So I just keep doing it. And he elaborates like how do you g arrive at this where you just don't have regrets? If it could be better. I would have kept working on it.

50:50 If it could be better, it's not done. I have done everything I can to make it the best it can be. I can't do more. than that. So there's nothing to be critical of. And this is his framework for his music, this mental model that I think I'm gonna remember and take with me.

51:08 My work is almost like a diary entry. Everything we make. Is a reflection in a moment of time. It could be a day. It could be a year.

51:18 It is a reflection in a moment in time. So it's like I can't go back. I can't go back and listen to stuff I did twenty five years ago be like, Oh, I'd do it differently now because I did it to the best of my ability as that version of Rick Rubin. It is a diary, it's not perfection.

51:33 I like that idea. I think it I think I think that's actually really, really helpful. And he also says something s really, really smart. He just nails Regret. It's just a Fantastic.

51:43 explanation of why it's something you have to you can you don't want this in your l older life. Or when you're older rather. And so they're talking about the song that he did with Johnny Cash before Johnny Cash died. And it's called Hurt. And it is a cover of

51:57 the guy from Nine Inch Nails, Trent Resner, wrote the song When he's twenty. Okay, so he writes a song. When he's twenty. It's all about regret and pain and all this sort of stuff.

52:06 And so Rick Rubin's gonna say, Hey, coming out of Trent Resner at twenty is one thing. Coming out of Johnny Cash when you're seventy years old, you're at the end of your life. it has a completely different meaning. And so the no Rick Rubin just nails regret. I'm just gonna read it to you. When you're twenty years old and talking about regret. It's heartbreaking.

52:22 But it's heartbreaking in a different way because you have the your whole life to figure it out. When you're looking back over your life at the end of your life with regret. It's brutal. It's brutal. And I love that he repeated that, the the way he ended. It's brutal. It's brutal. He said it twice.

52:41 It's the thing we have to avoid. At all costs. Because at that point There's nothing you can do about it. Here's another random idea for you. The first thing that Rick asks.

52:52 When he's working with somebody else. Is What's the first thing that got you into music? So uh understanding of why are you doing what you're doing. It's so important. We talk about that all the time. Not only for us to know why we're doing what we're doing. But then to explain it to your customers.

53:06 customers resonate. They want to know why you're doing what you're doing. Another great line. This one this one comes from the documentary. He says these things that we don't understand and cannot explain. happen regularly. And so these things that we don't understand and we cannot explain.

53:22 They happen regularly. Another great line. Negativity is the enemy of creativity. Then he talks about how magical music is. Why he thinks magic and pro wrestling. They all combine, they all understand the same thing.

53:36 And he says they allow you to understand principles. The surface reality Where I think most people spend their time, that's what he's saying. And then there's this whole other bigger story going on behind it.

53:48 So think if you think of You watch a magic trick? You see it happen, you can't believe. And he's like that's what most people are like, Oh, I can't believe that. That's what they're focused on. Rick is always focused on like what's ha the actual story happening behind it. Same thing we listen to an album.

54:00 He knows I had to do that song a thousand times. Wrestling. It's almost like theater, like live theater. Like you're engaged in what's happening in the ring, I'm foc I'm interested in like what's the story. How did they They wrote out the storyboards. Who are the characters? What roles are they playing? What are the psychological effects they're doing?

54:15 And so that idea, there's always this whole other big story. Going on behind it. Then he talks about the importance of ignorance, of being naive before you try something This has popped up over and over again in the history of entrepreneurships. Uh entrepreneurship.

54:28 There's so many examples like the founder saying, Hey, if I knew how hard If I knew what I didn't know, I wouldn't ever start it. If I knew how hard this was gonna be, how long it was actually gonna take. I wouldn't have ever started. So he says the amateur mind possesses a valuable lack of knowledge about rules.

54:40 When matched with passion and gumption. Gravity ceases to exist. And new things take flight. That's just fantastic language. When matched with passion and gumption, gravity ceases to exist and new things take flight.

54:53 So then he talks about using what he learned from professional wrestling in the early days of his career as marketing. There's a video they played in the documentary. That's happening in nineteen eighty five when he's trying to go out and promote the Beastie Boys album. And he's like yelling into he's getting an interview on the streets in New York with a B C boys and a reporter. And he's like super hype.

55:10 And You you hear that and he's like People don't realize like I was just copying the the bad guy wrestler character that I grew up on. He goes, That was performance art as a way of marketing. And so he's yelling he's talking to the um

55:22 It's not like in a rude I mean not really like a mean I didn't take it as like a mean way. But he's like, Oh, I'm obviously talking over your head. This interview is over. Cause he's like, The BC board is the most important thing to ever happen to music. You know, if you've ever watched professional wrestling, it's like They're over the top.

55:37 Like this is the best thing ever happened. Like this is the most important thing. It's completely provocative, I guess is the point. And the follow up question to this is interesting. They're like well He was asked like using over the top professional wrestling marketing efforts. Did it matter to you?

55:53 that a lot of people didn't understand what you were doing. So people thought, Oh, this guy's a jerk, maybe this guy's crazy yelling saying He really believes the B C Boys is the best thing ever happened to music. You know, how can you say that there's a Beatles, there's all these other people that existed before that? And so he's like, Did it matter to you that a lot of people didn't understand? And he had a one word answer that was perfect. Never.

56:12 Let's go back to this unbelievable self belief he had. They interview his college roommate. And He said Rick was the most confident nineteen year old I ever met. Even if he didn't know.

56:24 He said in Did Like he knew. Another thing I love from the documentary. He has

56:30 I mean this shouldn't be surprised to you and I at this point, but he has extensive historical knowledge about his industry. So in the documentary it shows us like this. beautiful library, like this two story library he has in his studio. And it contains all kinds of things. Like Artifacts not only is it like uh he takes uh he's got a lot of old books in there.

56:50 music, movies, he's essentially taking it using the world as a classroom, I guess is the way you think about this. Use the world as a classroom. and then apply all uh like all the ideas you're using to your work. And he actually has A copy of the very first record. that ever mentions the word Hip hop.

57:05 Partially credited with founding. And he went down and tracked the record the first time that the word hip hop ever re ever appeared In recorded music was in nineteen sixty eight.

57:17 Омост чваті єс. before the founding of Def Jam. And what I was what I was interested in about that is in the documentary So we already go into like you clearly see he'll constantly ask his artists to go back. Like he's working with uh Lincoln Park at the time and he's like, Hey, go back and listen to all these records and it's records that were made like thirty or forty years before. And what was interesting is how

57:37 Some people didn't. So he's meeting in two thousand eighteen. with this rapper called Little Yachty. And he's a young kid, so I'm not like at the point I think he's like twenty two or something like that when he's when when he's recording this, so W when he's doing the documentary. So no shade to him, but he like he blew up real fast in in hip hop and has since disappeared.

57:54 And it shouldn't make it shouldn't exactly be surprising that he disappeared,'cause this is what he says in the documentary. I don't know nothing about the history of rap. I was born in nineteen ninety seven. Why do I know need to know? About what somebody else did.

58:08 Why do I need to go research somebody else? And so this idea, this is like it's normal for humans to fail to learn the lessons of history. That's why people that study history that make it a part of their lives for the rest of their lives just have a massive advantage. This is a very old idea. Cicero. So it's over two thousand years almost two thousand years ago. To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born. is to remain always a child.

58:29 Little Yachty. had remained a child and his career has suffered. As a result. Going back to great ideas that Rick Rubin said, he says all the most interesting things happen.

58:40 When you are making stuff no one else is making. A few more great quotes from this documentary. This says uh somebody describing Rick Rubin, which I I love this line. He's living in four different centuries at once. Another great description of'em, kinda this reality distortion field.

58:55 I don't think that he's backed in reality at all. Which is probably one of the reasons he's so successful. And then two more lines from the documentary, which I think is just the perfect mentality to have. My reason this is Rick talking. My reason to exist is to be of service. And then the last thing

59:12 Mainly I'm a researcher. I'm always looking for a better way to do everything. And I never accept. Whatever the accepted version of something is as oh That's how it's supposed to be.

59:23 It is an endless search. So let's go back to the early days. So his early career, he hasn't left Def Jam. He hasn't left New York to go to California. starts like the second part of his career. And so Chuck D.

59:34 which is the main, I guess, wrapper in in Public Enemy. And he's like, Okay. I gotta sign this guy. I gotta work with him. And this is really just the the value of persistence. Feeling that Chuck D was the next greatest artist.

59:46 Ruben had to convince Chuck D of all that. This is Ruben describing that. He considered himself a grown man with a family and a regular job. I put his phone number on a post it note. On my phone. And I would call it every day.

59:58 And just keep bugging him. Saying. We really have to make a record. It's time to make a record. It took six months.

1:00:05 Until Chuck D said Maybe. And think about the alternate reality,'cause Public Enter becomes one of the most influential hip hop groups of all time. they're hugely influenced to the all the artists that come after them. And the idea is like no, I didn't even Chuck didn't even think it was possible. He's like I d you know, there's no f such thing as a career rap.

1:00:22 And then only that, it's for like young kids. I'm too I'm old. I'm I'm I have family at a normal job. If it wasn't for Rick Rubin's persistence there's a very real possibility that public enemy never existed. And again, I think that's another example of like him him transferring his confidence. the opponents of confidence that he has on other people. Like that's just extremely valuable for for people to do that.

1:00:42 It's almost like an a uh virtually like an act of service. It's like I believe in you so much, I'm gonna make you believe in you. So at this point he gets interested in saying, Hey, I I wanna also produce a lot of rock records. This is gonna cause a split of Def Jam. But before I get there, it goes back to this obsession with simplicity. He says it doesn't matter who I'm working with, I apply the same basic format. Keep it sparse.

1:01:04 Strip down the sound to something straightforward. But powerful. And so this move by Ruben to go more into rock is actually going to cause a a rift. Just didn't take long because you figure their their partnership only lasted what, three, four years.

1:01:20 If that says this shift. was an indication of the growing distance between part between the partners of Rubin and Russell Simmons. And so what he's about to do here, by instinct, is something that is mentioned a lot of times by people that admire him. Like he had The money, the fame, and the success of Def Jam. Who at the

1:01:37 Almost the peak of their popularity says nope. You're ch causing me to compromise what I wanna make, so I'll just leave it all. He leaves Def Jam. Russell's still Runs it. And so they wind up having a meeting

1:01:47 Well, Rick says he can still remember where they went and having this conversation even many decades later. And he so he says he asked Russell, Do you want to leave? And he said no. And I said, Okay, fine, I'll leave. Ruben said if I would have stayed

1:01:59 it would have been completely different. I don't know if it would have been the same successful thing that it is. The reason I left Def Jam had to do with mine and Russell's vision of our company growing apart. Rubin said that he and Simmons had been stepping on each other's toes a lot. And kinda growing apart creativity. They weren't communicating. I felt like my vision was being compromised and I'm sure he felt like his was too. Reflecting on this time with Def Jam and the labels' influence on the hip hop scene, Ruben said it really was a wave.

1:02:23 We just happened to be in a good spot on the wave. The wave was coming. And that was really interesting because the way he said, he's like, Listen, I was just the right person, the right set of skills at the right point in history. But that wave was gonna happen with or without me. That's exactly what convinced Paul Allen.

1:02:37 And Bill Gates. To stop focusing on school and going all in on Microsoft. And so it's a fantastic paragraph that's in the biography of Bill Gates called Hard Drive. But it says Gates and Allen were convinced that the computer industry was about to reach critical mass. And when it exploded it would usher in a technological revolution of astounding magnitude.

1:02:56 They were on the threshold. Of one of those moments when history held its breath. And jumped. as it had done with the development of the car and the airplane. And this is the punchline, this is the most important part.

1:03:07 They could either lead the revolution Or be swept along by it. So one of the most successful albums that Rick ever produced was The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Blood Sugar, Sex Magic. I just got a couple of highlights from this chapter that I think are just applicable to all kinds of great work in all kinds of fields. So the first thing is the importance of

1:03:24 differentiating a product. have never been part of any movement or any collective thing. Or any existing category. We just try to create our own categories.

1:03:37 Another line from this. It says it's not about being this is Rick talking about what when he was working on this album. It's not about being fancy. It's about serving the song. It's not about being fancy. For our purposes, it's about serving the customer. And this is the band describing what it's like working with Rick on this album. His participation

1:03:54 was incredibly nonchalant. He just comes by and chill out, sometimes horizontally. He's got a pen and paper. And it's somewhere between a nap And a meditation. So that that line's kinda funny. It's like some

1:04:05 comes by s uh sometimes horizontally. So there's a you'll see this in documentary. I saw this in an ad Samsung did for Jay Z album like a decade ago. where Jay Z invites the producers that worked on his album is like Pharrell, Timberlin, Rick Rubin, they're all in the studio in New York City. And they're playing the album and and Rick just lays down on the couch and kinda Closes his eyes and and taps his feet.

1:04:25 So that's it's something he's been doing for a long time. They said he has an incredible head for arrangements. And again part of that. At this point he's twenty years into his career, no maybe fifteen years into his career.

1:04:36 How much music has he listened to? How much music has he studied? encyclopedic knowledge, historical knowledge of his industry. And I think it's really important for two reasons. One, no one can once you a establish a space of knowledge, no one can take it from you, and two It's gonna constantly inform that historical knowledge of studying the great work that came before you.

1:04:54 is going to constantly inform all the work that you do for the rest of your career. And then this is Rick Rubin. Mm. Dis describing why he refuses.

1:05:04 To chase Fads are trends. This was fantastic. He says the newest sounds Have a tendency to sound old. When the next new sound comes along.

1:05:13 But a grand piano sounded great fifty years ago and will sound great fifty years from now. I try to make records. That have a timeless quality. And so one of the things that he did that he helped Red Hat chili peppers was was their their basist.

1:05:29 is w probably the most famous basis of the world it's this guy named Flea. But what Rick is about to say here is I really think it goes back to he was talking about at the beginning of the book. The role he plays. Like, listen Every band player, every person on the team. You know, is focus on their role. I'm the only one that's not concerned about your role, but how your role affects the whole.

1:05:48 So it says Ruben described the evolution that occurred. Up until that time, Flea's bass playing. was a particular style. He was famous for it. He was considered one of the best bass players in the world.

1:05:58 Because of his style. But when we started working together, that bass playing that made him one of the best didn't necessarily serve the songs in the best way. This reminded me Biography of Michael Jordan.

1:06:12 And Michael was a fantastic individual. Basketball player. But he couldn't get past the Detroit Pistons in the playoffs and he failed year after year year. It wasn't tur till he learned how to be the best teammate.

1:06:24 play as a team, not just an individual person. that they actually got were able to get to the next level. That same process is very similar to what Rick is dis describing us here. He's like, listen, he's well known. At that time they thought Michael Jordan was the best basketball player in the in the league, but he hadn't win a championship'cause the best players don't win, the best teams do. But when we started working together that b bass player A bass playing.

1:06:44 That made him one of the best didn't necessarily serve the songs in the best way. It was more about the base being great. It was more th about Jordan being great. And the song is more important than the bass, and the team is more important than the player. So that's me obviously trying to tie that all together. Starting with that record.

1:06:59 Flee changed the way he played. This is what Flea said about that. He goes I consciously avoided Anything busy or fancy. I avoided saying, Hey, I'm flea. The bitchin' bass player.

1:07:12 And then he said, he goes, I try to get small enough to get inside the song. As opposed to stepping out. The focus is not on me. So one thing I really admire about studying Rick Rubin. was that he doesn't rest on his laurels. He's always looking for the next challenge. Right. You could just say, hey I'm gonna produce the the same rap records over and over again.

1:07:29 I already h had some hit rock and metal albums. Let me just do that. He's like, No, no, I need a a another challenge. I need to keep and challenge is how you keep growing and adding more skills, right? So In nineteen ninety four, he's like I'm gonna work with Johnny Cash. And the way he decided to do this is fascinating.

1:07:45 So since in nineteen ninety four, Rick Rubin was focused on a great challenge. Resurrecting the career. of country music legend Johnny Cash. With r with Rubin's trademark production by reduction approach. The albums would bring the legendary Johnny Cash

1:08:00 His first platinum success in years. and showcased a more raw side Tim. Rubin explained how he came to work with Johnny. He says it seemed like it would be a fun challenge to work with an established artist. But I wasn't interested in working with a legend at the top of o of their game. I'd been thinking about who was really great.

1:08:18 But not currently r making really great records. What great artists are not in a great place right now. So Johnny and Rick meet and they and Rick Tells Johnny. His blueprint.

1:08:32 Ruben had a real simple plan. Wherever the magic is. We will follow it. And so this is the first of their hit albums together. It says it was recorded in Rick Rubin's living room. Cash recalled there was no echo.

1:08:42 No slatback. No overdubbing, no mixing, it just goes back to the reduction by production by reduction, right? No overdubbing, no mixing. Just me playing my guitar and singing. I didn't even use a pick.

1:08:54 Every guitar note on the album. Came from my thumb. And this is just this is just great. I just love that this happened. So it says we had nothing to lose and everything to gain. Or excuse me, Johnny Cash had nothing to lose and everything to gain in wearing his heart on his sleeve.

1:09:08 I know I'm sixty two years old and I've been around twice. And now it looks like I might have a third shot at a new audience. He found Rick Rubin help him find. that new audience. So M T V winds up putting

1:09:20 Johnny Cash's video for the first song and it becomes really popular to an age group that probably didn't even know who Johnny Cash existed or much less all the the hits that he had, you know, twenty, thirty, forty years earlier. And the album won a Grammy. And then this is the crazy part. What I mentioned earlier, how Rick can just imbibe like he can He could take the confidence that he has. And again, I think it's like you can clearly

1:09:42 transfer your emotions, both good and bad, to the people around you, right? But this idea where you have a legend, somebody that had already got to the top of their profession. And still having doubts about their ability. Rick made me have faith in myself again. He made me believe in myself.

1:09:59 In my music. Which I thought was gone. Forever. He's working with a different band. I just want to pull out one sentence here'cause I thought it was fantastic. Um, and he's describing this guy named Williams is describing what it was like working with Rick.

1:10:15 Williams described being put to a recording regimen wherein Rick Rubin made us record every track about fifty times each. To obtain the good dynamics. That is a main theme. That we should take away from Rick Rubin. Less is more. But to get there you have to do more.

1:10:29 He uses that same idea over and over again. I moved ahead to another project. This guy Donovan that's in this band sets. What you hear is fourteen songs. But there's eighty six songs that you haven't heard. Once the project began.

1:10:42 I w started writing daily. I wrote one hundred songs over a period of a year and a So again, The public praises people. For what they practice in private.

1:10:51 They are praising These fourteen songs. They didn't see the eighty six. Others. that I had to do and never use just to get to the right fourteen.

1:11:01 And then there's just some great stories in the book, like uh he decides, Hey, I'm gonna get together Tom Petty So there's a fantastic picture in the studio of Tom Betty. Rick Rubin and Johnny Cash. And so this is the album I think that song uh is on. hurt. They played on the the Lex Freeman podcast. I thought it's just to watch Rick listen to it was was really interesting to me.

1:11:21 So it it sounded very different and you know, Johnny's like uh Johnny's known as a cat or as a uh country. As like a country Like music legend. And yet

1:11:30 Because the sound had evolved, he wasn't getting the like the attention or the the support of his industry. And so this just made me laugh out loud. So says the music got major airplay on college radio and alternative rock stations upon its release. But no love from traditional country radio. But the rest of America love the album.

1:11:47 Ironically, the album won a Grammy Award for Best Country Album. Celebrating the achievement in the fuck the system fashion. Rick Rubin ran a full page ad in Billboard featuring the classic photo of Johnny Cash. Middle finger aimed at the camera. With a caption that read.

1:12:03 American Recordings and Johnny Cash would like to acknowledge the Nashville music establishment and country radio. For your support. And so Rick Rubin talks about the importance of selecting the people that you work with, you have to make sure you like them. You have to make sure you admire them. There's no point in w in working with somebody that you don't like, admire, trust.

1:12:21 And as a result, it's not just uh this is not oh this is business. Like that's no, it's not true. This is extremely personal. What we're doing is extremely personal. And so there's a There's this band called System of a Down. And one of the artists in System of a Down talks about like what was it what's it like working with Rick Rubin? He gives you your whole self.

1:12:38 And so it says production with Rick doesn't mean you're going to sit in the studio. It might mean you go to a record store or you go to a beach or you go for a drive. You bond as people first. And then you put these songs, and Rick's like the song doctor. If you play something for him.

1:12:53 It's like going in for a checkup. He's like here, take a couple of these vitamins and see how you feel. And the songs always feel better after his suggestions. And so you do. He's just so easy to be around.

1:13:03 That's why people keep going Back to him. And so one of the groups that kept coming back to Rick Rubin were the Rot Chili Peppers. And so they're building They're doing the uh album California Californification.

1:13:14 At this point in the book. And one of the guitarists had left the group. And then he came back. But he wasn't playing as much. So this is gonna remind me, um A few weeks ago, I think it was what, uh maybe episode two forty biography of Mozart that I did. There's a line, there's something that that happens to that book that I I don't think I'll ever forget.

1:13:29 And it's the importance of like not really trying to find the most efficient way. Like sometimes just exposing yourself to hours after hours of hard work. Like that's going to build up skill sets that other people that have not gone through all that time. Lack.

1:13:42 And so he's coming back. Uh I don't know how to pronounce his name, so I'm gonna call him F. F felt somewhat rusty. I hadn't spent too much time playing guitar over the last few years, so my hands were weak. They didn't really get extremely strong.

1:13:54 Until we almost finish recording. So that had an effect on my style of guitar playing. During the recording. I was playing guitar constantly. I would go home.

1:14:04 And play for five hours. After a ten hour recording session. But the main takeaway there was the fact that His music what he's saying is like the music got better the stronger my hands got. My destroy the only way to get your hand strong is to actually put in the hours, right? And so that's exactly what happened to Mozart.

1:14:21 There's this Some kind of instrument called like the viola or something like that. And if I remember correctly, it needs like extreme right hand strength. And so a lot of Mozart's competitors that practice less than Mozart couldn't actually make the instrument perform to its best of its ability. Because they lacked the hand strength, because they didn't practice.

1:14:38 Mozart practiced, Mozart had the hand strength. Mozart then applies that talent that the people that don't practice Lack. And he's able to get magic out of an instrument that his competitors

1:14:49 Did not. And then in just a few sentences I really feel we get like this this kind of blueprint that Rick Rubin like the blueprint of how Rick Rubin works and that we can then apply to so many other things. And there's four things I picked out. How this is how Rick Rubin works, number one.

1:15:04 He works on one thing at a time. Number two, he gives it his undivided attention. Number three, he only works with A players. His job is not to motivate you. A players motivate themselves. And number three, he tries to get his thinking as clear.

1:15:17 As possible. We found that for us we need a producer to to be devoted to us for a few months. That's what Rick does. We've got his undivided attention.

1:15:25 He doesn't do any disciplining, we do it ourselves. I love making music and I love writing music and nobody needs to push me to do that. He's not the kind of person that gets distracted. Or come to the rehearsal studio. With something else on his mind. Or he are carrying his personal life into the studio.

1:15:40 He is very Focused. He's got a clear head. About everything going on. So again.

1:15:46 Work on one thing at a time. Undivided attention. Only work with eight players. And get your thinking as clear as possible. One of my favorite and funniest lines.

1:15:54 It comes from David Ogie. talks about hey all great companies, all great institutions, they're run by a single formidable individual. And he has a a better grasp of language than I do, but he says, Search all the parks in your city. You'll find no statues of committees. Johnny Cash is talking about why his l some of the last albums he ever did were so great.

1:16:11 The common theme I see in these albums Is they were not made by committee. They were made by Rick Rubin. And I The guitarist from the Red Hot Chili Peppers, that guy F I just told you about

1:16:22 Together F and Rick Rubin explored another genre of music to find inspiration. Me and Rick would work together every day. And he's got We could get together every day, excuse me. And he's got these CDs of hits from the sixties.

1:16:35 So right now at this point in the book where we are in in in time. They are using ideas. From work done. Forty years. Before they are meeting.

1:16:45 That's another one of s of Rick's standard MOs. He's constantly saying, Hey I know we're working in nineteen ninety five. I know we're working in two thousand five. Go check out what was done in the fifties. Go check out what these guys were doing in the seventies. Go check out this other thing.

1:16:59 And so we're gonna see Rick Rubin use two parts of his philosophy here again. Persistence. And then production by reduction. And so at this point he's gonna do the exact same thing. He's like hey, who else is

1:17:09 was really good at one point, is really capable of doing great work, but hasn't yet like hasn't shown that they can still do great work. So he goes and and and Tries to Work with Neil Diamond and he just does it relentlessly. Rubin was eager to work with Diamond and unabashedly described his pursuit of the artist as stalking.

1:17:26 At first Diamond found Ruben's enthusiasm. A little scary. I didn't know what to make of it. So eventually as persistence pays off. Yeah, they start working together. And it says once they began working together, Ruben insisted diamond track

1:17:37 All of the album songs playing acoustic guitar. While he's sang. That's exactly what he said. He's like listen A person with just strumming a guitar and singing sounded good. fifty years ago, just like a piano sounded good fifty years ago. And if it sounds good fifty years ago, It'll sound if it survived that long.

1:17:53 That idea, that format survived that long. It is more likely to survive fifty years into the future. So he's like, We're gonna all the other crap that your producers had you do with the bells and whistles. We're getting rid of all that stuff. It's not necessary. And so it says the singer hadn't recorded like that since the nineteen sixties. And he was reluctant to try it.

1:18:10 Diamond would later concede. That Rick was right. Rubin wanted to bring back the Neil Diamond who made those old records great. with a stripped down sound. And then the way

1:18:24 The way Neil Diamond describes Rick. I'm only including this'cause it made me laugh. Since despite his appearance, which can be really intimidating, Rick is a big, lovable bear of a man. The only other problem I had was with his habit of hugging.

1:18:38 At first I was taken aback. After a while I got to like it. He's like Father Earth taking you into his bosom. I don't know why that made me laugh. That's funny. And then towards the end of the book I just realized as I'm reading this, I was like, Oh

1:18:51 He's developed. A very personal Business philosophy. Ruben wanted freedom. And not to have to punch a clock or work in a traditional corporate way.

1:19:01 Ruben has always kept a full vision of a project. in mind as part of his work. He thought about the artwork. The marketing. Videos.

1:19:09 Brand building, and so on. The panic music industry Maybe focus on how to sell music. But Rick Rubin has always been focused on Making great music first.

1:19:21 He is driven. By what is really great. He's very hard to please. Having someone around you like that. Makes you want to bring something

1:19:31 In that's fantastic. And not just mediocre. And the effect of this very personal business philosophy. It's summarized here.

1:19:41 Rubin attributes his success. Two very simple core principles. Try to understand culture as well as music. Surround yourself with people interested in music for the right reasons. And be true to the things that you love.

1:19:55 His great love And fandom for music. has led to honesty and purity In his work. His impact

1:20:04 has been felt by a generation of music fans. Who would credit Ruben. with producing the soundtrack. to their lifetime. And that is where I'll leave it. I absolutely love this book. I loved going deep on uh Rick Rubin, the mind and the philosophy of Rick Rubin this week.

1:20:20 I'll leave a link down below if you want to buy the book. It supports podcasts at the same time. That is two hundred and fifty five books down. One thousand ago. And I'll talk to you again soon.

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