Michael Jordan (The Life)

0:00 Two quick things before we jump into this podcast. Number one, this book changed my life. I read this book and I made this podcast almost two years ago. I'm reposting it today. In case you missed it. the first time if you already Heard it. It's worth listening to again.

0:14 And number two, I recommend you sign up for the private AMA feed that I have. I've been making short episodes every week based on questions that I get from other members. If you become a member, you'll be able to ask me questions directly. There's actually a private email address that you get access to. in the confirmation email. I read every single email that comes in myself. Uh, you'll also be able to learn from questions.

0:33 Uh the questions of other members. And you can also add your name and a link to your website with your question. So other members can check out what you're working on. That feature alone is worth the investment. I made twenty seven of these episodes. So far.

0:47 You can get access to them right now when you become a member. You can actually join by using the link that's in the show notes in your podcast player. And you can also find it at Thunderspodcast dot com. It took the fewest of words to set him off.

1:02 Sometimes nothing more than the faintest trace of a smirk. He was also capable of making things up. Conjuring up on a front out of thin air. That's what they would all realize afterward.

1:14 He would seize on apparently meaningless cracks or gestures and And plunge them deep into his heart. Until they glowed radioactively. The nuclear fuel rods. Of his great fire.

1:26 Only much later. Would the public come to understand just how incapable he was? Of even the tiniest details. Many observers mistakenly thought that these affronts

1:37 Were laughable things of Michael's own manufacturer. Little devices. To spur his competitive juices. And that he would jokingly toss them aside when he was done with them. After he had wrung another sweaty victory from the evening.

1:51 But he could not let them go. any more than he could shed his right arm. They were as organic to his being as as his famous tongue. Many of the things that deeply offended Michael Jordan were hardly the stuff that

2:05 Of stinging rebuke. Except perhaps The very first one. Which As it later turned out.

2:12 was the most important Of all Just go in the house with the women. that James Jordan uttered to his youngest son.

2:22 This one was the one that glowed neon bright across the decades. His father's mean words. had activated deep within Some errant strain of DNA. A mutation of competitive nature.

2:36 So strong as to almost seem titanium. Years later. During the early days of his NBA career He confessed

2:45 That it was his father's early treatment of him. And his dad's declaration Of his worthlessness. That became the driving force. That motivated him.

2:54 Each accomplishment. That he achieved Was his battle cry for defeating his father's negative opinions of him. Michael paid him back. Again.

3:05 And again. By achieving so much in a life that his father could never hope to grasp. That is what offspring Of disapproving fathers often do. Without even realizing it.

3:17 They lock in on an answer. And deliver it over and over. Confirming. That they do not need. To just go in the house.

3:25 And they continue to confirm it. Even after the father has gone to dust. As if they are unconsciously. Yelling across time. In an argument.

3:35 With the old man. That was an excerpt from the book that I'm going to talk to you about today, which is Michael The Life, and it was written by Roland Lazenby. Remember that part about his father. Or for the end,'cause the the end of the book brings that that story full circle.

3:50 Um so before I jump in the book, I'm gonna tell you why I wanted to do this book. One I would say I I've looked up to Michael Jordan since I was a little kid. He's probably if I look back, he's probably the first like hero I ever had? And so I had a a deep personal interest in in learning more about'em.

4:03 But also I I've come across recently I was thinking about um Like some you you come across these deals that uh that people or individuals are able to obtain for themselves in their life and career. Tenemos Impossible to believe.

4:17 And so uh we've seen uh a few examples of these over the last couple of weeks. Coco Chanel. Um, she went from orphan to the richest woman in the world by the time she died. Part of her doing that is signing a deal where she got two percent, two and a half percent. I can't remember if it was two percent or two and half percent. Of gross sales.

4:34 worldwide grow sales for uh for all the Chanel perfumes, which is one of the most successful commercial uh most commercially successful products ever created. That gave her an income if it was adjusted in today's dollars. She was getting paid this uh starting in the nineteen forties. It'd be it'd be the equivalent of if you made three hundred million dollars a year. uh in today's dollars and the company had to pay for every single one of your living expenses.

4:59 Another example of this is that's hard to believe is that Steven Spielberg Gets two percent. Of all Uh ticket sales. at universal theme parks.

5:08 So without having to do anything else. That's estimated to bring him about fifty to seventy five million dollars a year. And then you have Jordan. Which we'll talk about today, the Jordan Brand. He gets five percent

5:21 of gross sales for the Jordan Brand. Uh the the most recent numbers I found was three point six billion a year in sales, which would mean he makes about a hundred and eighty million he made a hundred and eighty million dollars. And so I just wanna bring that to your attention because it's just a reminder that, you know, life is unpredictable. Coco Sarda's an orphan. Steven Spielberg started out as a seventeen year old kid trying to get an internship on Universal Law.

5:45 And as Jordan says in the book and in interviews He just started out as a poor country boy from Wilming, North Carolina. And there's a sentence in the prologue that I think speaks to just how unbelievable life can be. And it's a quote from Jordan and he says, Sometimes I wonder what it will be like to look back on all of this. Whether it will even seem real.

6:03 And so I wanna stay in the prologue. There's a bunch of just one liners that I think will prompt a lot of thoughts. The no left myself on this one is this is a one sentence summary of Michael Jordan. His competence was exceeded only by his confidence. And what's interesting is we'll see that the confidence he had later in his career.

6:19 Was very real. The confidence he had when he was in high school. maybe even early days of college. Lotta was just him hyping himself up to convince himself. To some degree you could say it's a false confidence to convince himself that he can compete with the very best.

6:33 So he had this like fake External confidence. That acted as fuel and covered up internal doubts. another line for you and then I left myself, Is this something I wanna copy?

6:46 I was actually on the friend uh I was on the phone. uh with a friend of mine having a conversation about what I was uh learning in this book'cause he's a huge Jordan fan as well. And when I talked about Jordan having this trait that I'm about to reach, he's like, This is something that I'm extremely interested in hearing about. This is something I'm extremely interested in copying. He says he worked at his game. And if he wasn't good at something, he had the motivation to be the best at it.

7:05 And the method he used for improvement was a complete and utter dedication to practice, which is another main theme of the book that I'm gonna talk about a lot about'cause I think there's just There's so many parallels between uh the the how Jordan prepared for his basketball career. um that we can use in our work. In fact I've started reading another book on him and he talks about that. In the prologue of this other book I have.

7:24 Where it's just like I the same approach I used for basketball. I used to approach to building the Jordan brand. It's the same thing. Another trait that he had. was the fact that he was very interested in seeing like what is the limits of my potential. Um and so it says mostly he tested himself. It seemed that he discovered the secret quite early in his competitive life.

7:41 The more pressure he heaped on himself. The greater his ability to rise to the occasion. And finally one more thing from the prologue. Um it says oh actually I'll read my note to you after I read this. Text winner who worked with Jordan longer than any other coach. said he had never encountered a more complicated figure.

8:00 He is a mystery man in an awful lot of ways. And I think he will always be. Maybe even to himself. And so the note of myself on this page is after reading seven hundred pages about him. I feel this way too. I've talked to you about this in the past that

8:14 One of the great things about reading biographies is You know you're spending In some cases fifteen. I mean I spent thirty hours. reading this book. This is a gigantic book. Yeah. I wish you could see how many notes I have. It's insane. But normally when you get to the end of that kind of experience.

8:29 You feel you know the person or you have an idea of who they are. I don't feel I know who Jordan is. I know about his drive, his competitive spirit, I know about the traits that I want to emulate. And a and using my own career. But Jordan the person is still very misunderstood, even to me.

8:46 and an enigma. So not only did I read, so let me tell you how I prepare for this podcast too. Before I sat down. To speak to you. I read close to seven hundred pages. took probably a hundred and a hundred or over a hundred notes in the book. I also re watched the ten part series the documentary's on Netflix.

9:03 Called the last dance. Which covers Mainly Jordan's last year, but it also gives a uh an entire like overview of his career and his early life. It's a you know, a ten hour documentary. And then what I did is because a lot of people talk about his uh his retirement or excuse me, his induction into the Hall of Fame

9:19 His speech. I watched that speech twice. And then I found the transcript and I read and took notes on that as well. So I'm gonna combine notes that I have on all three of those things and hopefully by the end of this. You have a good understanding of Jordan's approach to not only his basketball game, but then his business that has you know made him

9:35 I think the the the estimate is s almost two billion dollars so far by the time he signs with Nike in nineteen eighty four. So let's go to his early life. Let's go to a famous story of his where he gets cut. It d it's really he's he's playing high school basketball. He wants

9:50 To make the varsity team. fifteen years old at the time. And he doesn't make it. So Not if myself is lazy and unmotivated about things he is not interested in, but obsessed with his one goal. So says the fifteen year old boy who pinned his hopes on trying out

10:04 for the high school varsity basketball team in the fall of nineteen seventy eight was a far cry From the supremely confident Michael Jordan the world would come to know. So that's that's a echo of what I was saying earlier, how I think the confidence he has in later life, no doubt, that is extremely real. But I think he had a false sense of confidence that he actually used uh uses fuel.

10:23 as a way to convince himself that he can do this. So he says And he hated um so they're talking about the fact His mom and dad would talk about he had no interest in ever having like a job. Um, he was completely obsessed with sports and being as good at as baseball at baseball and basketball. as he possibly could.

10:38 But he wouldn't go out just to do things to to make money, like his other siblings would. So he says he had and he hated working. Making no effort to do anything to earn extra money. It was clear to his father that Michael would do anything to avoid Uh would do anything to avoid anything that resembled effort.

10:54 That's the laziest boy I've ever seen, James Jordan would say, time and again. If he had to get a job in a factory punching a clock, he'd starve to death. And that's a surprising sentence because he's known for his legendary work ethic. And it says, and now we see that it's not that he was lazy, it's just that he wasn't interested. Yet that laziness magically disintegrated when it came to sports. And if it involved a ball in the air, a contest to be settled, the switch came on.

11:17 In his adolescent mind. Michael figured maybe he could be a professional athlete. That was really about the only thing That interested him. And so that's another main theme of Jordan's life, singular.

11:31 He has one goal. I want to be a professional athlete. Once he gets to the NBA, he still only has then he he switches to another goal, but it's not multiple goals. He has one goal when he gets to the the NBA. I want to win as many championships as possible.

11:44 And the way he looked at it was I can't be the b the best player I can be if I'm not focused on just one thing. There's actually a scene about this in The Last Dance. I took a screenshot. And now I made it my um my home screen on my phone and it says a guy that was totally focused On one thing. And one thing only.

11:59 And so now we get to the to the experience of where he does not make the team And this again, w uh at the w what they said in the beginning, he uses every single slight Everything is motivation and he never forgets he's got like the the the memory of an elephant. The realization of his defeat fell on him like a boulder that day. He walked home alone, avoiding anyone along the way.

12:20 I went to my room and I closed the door and I cried. Jordan later recalled. For a while I couldn't stop crying. And so this is the first example. of many examples of pain as I'm reading this book, as I'm watching the documentary.

12:33 It's amazing how often. Not only Jordan, but also his teammates talk about the pain. the pain they went through. You have physical pain of obviously the sport, but the emotional pain is really what I was trying to focus on. Of constantly trying to achieve a goal. Coming up short.

12:47 having to to to fall down, to dash yourself off, to pick yourself up It really reminded me of what the founder of Four Seasons says. And yeah, ever since I read that, that's founder's uh number one eighty four, if you haven't gone back and listened to that episode. But Izzy Sharp, the guy that founded four seasons There's just a line. It's it's amazing, you know, you you read hundreds of I guess tens of thousands of of um pages.

13:08 And just how some s a random one sentence will stick in your mind and you'll never forget it. And he talked about, you know, how difficult it was building up you know, w one of the most premier luxury brands in the world. And he says excellence is often just a capacity for taking pain. The ability to experience it.

13:26 Go through it. And keep going. So eventually Jordan makes the team. Um, this is something that comes up over and over again. It's in the book, it's in the documentary, it's in his speech. uh into his induction to the hall of fame. It's that time is the best filter and you should study the greats, which is exactly what you and I are doing right now, right?

13:43 And so says young Michael had begun taking note of the pro games on TV. Later, thanks to the rise of ESPN, the televising of NBA games became omnipresent. and Jordan's own play would spawn generation of young players attempting to imitate his game. That wasn't it was extremely hard to see games on TV at the time he's doing this, right? He explained that he had done the same.

14:00 Finding rare and special instructors. through television. We're finding rare and special instructors through books, right? First there was David Thompson. This is the guy. This is his hero. Who he looked up to. This is the guy that he asked to to accompany him to his um

14:14 his induction to hall of fame. First there was David Thompson, followed by Doctor J. And this is also m maybe a surprising part where Jordan's got a gigantic ego. Right, of course he does.

14:25 But one part where he does not have an ego is constantly talking about hey, I couldn't have done what I did. Without learning from the people that came before me. And he has uh later in the book, I'll give you uh towards the very end. He's talking about uh Kobe Bryant in two thousand eight. And there's this interview in the book where he talks about that. Like he's very

14:44 Contrait is not the right word. He's just there's no ego involved. He's like of course You know, stop saying that Kobe's copying me. We all copied somebody. In everything I've seen with Jordan, everything I've read about him, he's constantly talking about learning from it and respecting the people that came before him. Uh so this is just a sentence.

15:01 Even at a very this he's still in high school. And he's extremely driven. And it says at each step along the path, others would express amazement at ho at how hard he competed. At every level. He was driven as if he was pursuing something that others couldn't see.

15:17 And then so I was still in high school. We're gonna see that he ha he makes a mistake. He eventually smart smartens up though. He understands that teams win. not individuals and that you have to manage your ego. And so he's talking about, you know, I didn't want

15:30 Since the team didn't want me, I didn't want them to win. And she says I wanted them to lose to prove that I could help them. that that this is what I was thinking at that time. You made a mistake by not putting me on the team and you're gonna see it because you're gonna lose. That experience brought Jordan face to face With his own selfishness for the first time.

15:46 It would be one of the dominant themes of his career. Learning to channel The tremendous drive and ego of his competitive nature into a team game. And so one of the things that helped Jordan smarten up is that every single person from a high school coach His college coaches

16:03 His professional coaches, his trainer. They talk about that Jordan surprisingly to maybe s they're meaning surprisingly to people that don't know him. is the fact that one of his best attributes was the ability to listen. And we're gonna see that right here. He goes up to this coach, he's still in high school, he says but what impressed me but but what impressed me was that

16:21 Michael said, was what Michael said. Wobby introduced me to him. Mr. Gibbons. What do I need to do to be a better player? He's a junior in high school when this is happening.

16:30 This reminded me of something that um I heard the the the Nick Saban, the coach of Alabama's football team. say one time that was really interesting, I think applies definitely to to Jordan. And he was talking to his team. He says, Average players want to be left alone. Good players want to be coached.

16:45 Great players want the coach to tell you the truth. Every day on every play. Because they want to be perfect. This is Michael reflecting on the preparation and what he was doing and trying to get better'cause they're talking about the difference between sophomore year and

17:00 Junior year they could not believe how much you progress, same thing from junior year to senior year. And his college coaches said the same thing. And so what he's about to tell us here is really you have to find what gives you that extra motivation. So he says whenever I was working out and got tired and figured out to stop. I'd close my eyes and see that list in the locker room.

17:18 Without my name on it. And that usually got me going again. And this is one of his high school coaches remembering Uh, Jordan's approach to his teammate. So this is uh something that that's talked about over and over again. Um, the fact that he was extremely hard. Some of his teammates would w would uh would describe him as a bully.

17:34 Um really w this one sentence he's about to say here Reminded me of what Steve Jobs told us that you should be a yardstick for quality. Some people are not used to an environment where excellence is expected. Where excellence is expected. That's a f that's a fantastic thought. Nobody had ever had this kids drive.

17:51 Even in high school. He took pride in his defense. Mike was fe at this point in his life he's known as Mike Jordan. Mike was furious. If his teammates didn't play good defense in practice.

18:03 It's a dedication to practice. Uh it's something uh it's gonna be one of my w main takeaways from this book that I'm gonna think about constantly. Uh this is still Jordan at seventeen. What he's about to say here reminds me of Arnold Schwarzenegger what he taught what he taught us. That if you see your seeing your goal in your mind helps you see it in person.

18:20 So it says at seventeen he had a clear of what he wanted. And he wasn't reluctant about expressing it publicly. My goal is to be a pro athlete. And so we see he's deadly serious about that goal. This is a description of high school Jordan. as he is getting recruit to play college ball.

18:36 The coach would later recall. That Jordan kept sneaking back into succeeding groups. For more work. Okay, so we're still right before Jordan goes to college. This is he what I'm about to describe to you, the I'm gonna tell you the story real quick.

18:50 Jordan later refers to this story that I'm about to tell you is he says, I it was the turning point of my life. That is a crazy sentence when you think about his life, right? So what's about to happen is he's he's gonna test himself Against Better competition.

19:04 And this helps him realize Wait a minute. I'm good at this. I'm really good at this. And so he's gonna go to this thing called the five star camp.

19:13 Remember, he's just like a he describes himself as a poor co uh poor country boy. From Wilmington, North Carolina at this point. He's maybe good at uh small uh small high school in North Carolina. He doesn't know how He's never been tested against the greatest competition. Okay, so that's about to happen here. So says the result was that the unknown player from Wilmington

19:31 Still something of a mystery. to the Carolina coaches was headed to five stars. Pittsburgh to camp. to see how he stacked up against other players from across the country. And these are players, it says, who had actually made their varsity teams as freshmen and sophomores.

19:47 Which Jordan obviously didn't. And distinguish themselves. And check out this sentence. The conventional wisdom Was that the best young players

19:56 had already been identified. Conventional wisdom is we already know who the great players are. Jordan's not on that list. And so this is what Jordan says about this time. I was so nervous. My hands were sweating, he recalled.

20:09 I saw all these all Americans. And I was just the lowest thing on the totem pole. Here I was a country boy from Wilmington. And right away. All the spectators to coaches like who is Mike Jordan?

20:21 Who is this guy? Something I never heard of before. They call him a one possession player, which means that all you have to do is see them once. And so and then this is the effect on Jordan's own confidence. Jordan uh Jordan could sense immediately that he had something the others didn't. How great of sentence is that? He sensed immediately that he had something the others didn't.

20:39 The more I played. The more confident I became, he remembered. I thought to myself Maybe I can play with these guys. So now he's on the radar, he starts getting recruited.

20:49 He's going to visit um the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He's gonna meet Patrick Ewing, who winds up spending his career with the the Knicks. And it says uh he didn't realise it Oh, this is something I need to point out to you too, because this is again No no one's life is all good, right? There's a lot of downside to being as much pressure and as famous as t as he winds up becoming. You know he he talks about

21:09 Multiple times he felt like he was a prisoner in his own hotel room. Uh he didn't realize it at the time of his visits in the fall of nineteen eighty, but he was selecting the place where he would spend the last days of his true freedom. Before success took possession of his life. That's another great sentence. Um Ewing met Jordan for the first time that weekend. Years later, Ewing smiled at the memory.

21:27 He was talking a lot of junk. He was talking about how he was gonna dunk on me. He talks smack. From that moment on. He always had that swagger.

21:36 You heard him. Before you saw him. And this is the reason I'm I'm pointing this out to you. 'Cause he's hyping himself up here, right? Remember the confidence is false. It's like he's using his fuel. Eventually it'll be real. Belief comes before ability.

21:49 Uh, you hear him before you saw him. At least part of that. Was his youthful Fear. Jordan would admit And so he's saying that false confidence it's false confidence comes out of fear. Have you ever heard

22:01 Uh the song Last Call. By Kanye West. It is really a song about entrepreneurship. He the it's like two minutes of music and then he like talks for I think like ten minutes, something like that. I mean he gives the story.

22:14 Of how he broke into The music industry. That that song popped in my mind when I'm reading this part about where Jordan is in his life, right? eighteen year old kid.

22:25 Raw talent. has a has a goal, I wanna be a pr professional athlete, is not at all clear that he can achieve that yet, right? And up until that point of his life he had other people telling him, No, you're not good enough, right? That's why he didn't get he he wasn't uh selected to be on the varsity team. So there's just a few lines from the last call I'm gonna pull out here because I thought this was very interesting. There is a A direct parallel between I think the confidence

22:47 The egotistical conf egotistical confidence between that Kanye West definitely has And then Michael Jordan definitely has, right? And now both of them it's very real confidence. But at the time it probably wasn't. And so K in in this line, Kanye's talking about, you know, everybody's th they uh they think I'm just a producer, but I wanna be a rapper as well. I w I can be an artist, I can make my own music.

23:06 And so he's going around to all these different record labels. This is before Jay Z signs him. And everybody's telling him, No, Kanye, you're not good enough, which is exactly what just No, Jordan, you're not good enough for the varsity team. So he says some say he arrogant, can y'all blame him? It was straight embarrassing how y'all played'em. Last year shopping my demo, I was trying to shine. So he's t this is he's telling the story, I just told you that.

23:26 I'm going around you know, you're playing me, you're telling me I'm not good enough. It I was embarrassed. I was hurt. Think of Jordan crying in his room, going home. And crying after not making it, right? Uh last year's uh it was straight embarrassing how y'all played'em. Last year shop my demo, I was trying to shine. Every motherfucker told me that I couldn't rhyme. So let's stop right there.

23:44 Right, at this point in his in in Kanye's life. No, you you can't rhyme, you're not good, right? He sold Twenty, sixty million records, something? No, not not sixty million. I think tw over twenty million records and over a hundred million digital downloads, right? One of the most commercially successful

23:59 You just said I couldn't rhyme. I wind up being one of the most commercially successful uh musicians in history. Same thing with uh when when Sam Walton's working in J C Penny, the story I tell you over and over again I've never forgot I learned probably three or four years ago when I read the book.

24:13 This manager J C Penny says, Sam You're not cut out for retail. goes on to become the most successful retailer of all time, right? What is Jordan's diversity coach or potential coach telling him, You're not good enough to be on my team. So

24:25 Sam Walton, Kanye. Michael Jordan all went through the same thing, how they reacted. made all the difference and was very similar. Now I could let these dream killers kill my self esteem. Walton's not gonna do that. West is not gonna do that. Jordan's not gonna do that.

24:39 All right, could this is the the main point of why I'm bringing this to your attention. Or I could use my arrogance. As the steam to power my dreams. I use it as my gas, so they say that I'm gassed. But without it I'd be last, so I ought to last.

24:55 I really do believe based on what I read in this book and what I've Learn s spinning, you know. All these hours studying Michael Jordan. I feel at the very beginning he used his arrogance.

25:06 as the steam to power his dreams. And once his belief in himself matched with once it's using once his skill level Matched his confidence.

25:20 there was no turning back and there was just gonna be no denying or no stopping Michael Jordan. This is a little bit about the the progress he's making. playing college ball and this is gonna be maybe bizarre to you. But again, I think of i everything I everything new I read, I think in terms of all the all the the stuff I've read up until this point, right? So

25:37 What Michael Jordan is about to say here is gonna be very similar to what we learned from Edwin Lant. Right, uh the the founder of Polaroid. And so this is Jordan. He says, I started to do things other people couldn't do. And that intrigued me more. Because of the excitement I got from the fans, from the people, and still having the the ability to do things that other people can't do.

25:58 But want to do. And they can only see that through you. That drives me. I'm able to do something that no one else can do. So I read that paragraph.

26:09 And what popped in my mind is Edwin Land, one of my favorite quotes from him. My motto is very personal. Lancet. And may not fit with anyone else. Don't do anything.

26:19 That someone else can do. And so now we have another coach talking about what Jordan learned from he he w he winds up losing. They thought they were gonna win the championship in high school. And they went up losing their last game. And so the the coach is talking about the describing

26:35 why these events are important in in Jordan's life and understanding him, right? You've got to understand what fuels that guy. What makes him great? He took the pain of that lost. Oh that loss. For most people the pain of loss is temporary.

26:47 He took that loss. And held on to it. It's part of what made him. This is so Jordan again, one on one, very unique, but what he went through, what he experiences, the way he reacts to things to things is not

27:00 There's there's a couple of examples that that pop to my mind. There's a there's a talk on YouTube where the the Lakers invited uh The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, to give him a a talk. And the name of the talk or the theme of the talk is Remember the hard times. And he talks about what keeps him They're like why the hell are you making so many movies? Like you're already wealthy like why are you working so hard?

27:18 When you've already you know, you built an empire, you're wealthy beyond Belief. And so he he thinks about the time where he got caught Uh not only from uh winds up losing his spot. Th there's a whole s I'm not gonna go like I'll summer I'll give you like pre summer here, but

27:32 It's like probably like a fifteen minute talk, something like that. We talked about losing a spot in college. Not making an NFL, then getting cut from the Canadian Football League and having seven bucks in his pocket. That's what he named his company for. And he just says, Like I always would like I start my day, remember like my back is always against the wall. And so the fact that I never forget the the hard times

27:51 Makes me not put take my foot off the pedal. This is something we saw back on Founders number one sixteen, the founder of Seagrams. Sam Bronfman. Might have been a billionaire in his state. This is the guy that started Seagram's This gigantic uh um alcohol company.

28:05 And his in that that biography I read of him, his daughter is telling the story. Thirty years after this happened, Sam Bronfman sitting in a mansion with his family shuddering. Literally shuddering at the thought. of going to s having to go to his family was so poor. Of having to go to school

28:23 With holes in his clothes. That thought didn't leave him thirty years later. And the reason I I bring this up and I try to tie all this together because I if it's motivating. It's motivating for me. It's motivating for other people. I'm sure it's motivating for you. The best description of this That I've ever found.

28:39 came from the first autobiography James Dyson read. Or shooting road. Against the odds. And he talks about that. He says throughout my story I will try to return to Brunel, that's Isn't Bar Kingdom Brunel, his hero.

28:51 And to other designers and engineers To show how identifying with them and seeing parallels with every stage of my own life. Enable t me to see my career as a whole. And to know that it would turn out the way it has.

29:06 And so the point there is Dyson went through this. Jordan like you're going to have to go through periods of pain. Jordan went to it. The Rock, Samuel Bromman. And in Jordan's case he's telling us, use that pain and Rock said the same thing, Sam's saying the same thing.

29:19 Use that pain as fuel. So now Jordan arrives to college. eighteen year old kid. And we see something that he he does for the for the next twenty years of his career. The total immersion into the fundamentals.

29:34 And later it when he's a when he's w gets to view how other NBA players approach their craft. He's shocked about how lazy they are. understanding that they're not practicing as much as he is, they're not working on the fundamentals. And I I think it also gives them a boost of confidence. It's like they have no idea. I think later on he says something like um They have no idea of like the work the game requires. I I have a quote on that, so we'll we'll get to that in the future.

29:55 Uh, Michael Jordan arrived on the North Carolina campus in the fall of nineteen eighty one to find that he was about to play for a very different kind of coach. This is Dean Smith. Legendary college basketball coach. Michael refers to him uh multiple times and in this other book I have on him. Uh as his second father. And so it says the next stage of Jordan's journey brought a total immersion into the discipline of the sport.

30:14 When you come out of high school, you have natural raw ability, Jordan once explained. No one coaches it. When I went to North Carolina, it was a different phase of my life. knowledge of basketball. Uh he's downloading knowledge of basketball on rebounds, defense, free throw shooting. And all and and different techniques.

30:33 And so just a random sentence I wanna pull out here for you,'cause I thought this is this relates to something I've heard Michael say in other interviews. So y the one of the most heavily recruit college basketball prospects is like a year or two ahead of um Uh, Jordan was this guy named Ralph Samson? And he like made the cover sports illustrated a bunch of times, like he w he was

30:52 What W as as um As unknown as Jordan was Ralph Sampson was known, if that makes any sense. So he this is listen to what he says here. It's fantastic. Ralph Sampson reflected on Michael Jordan. This force that had upset all of his best laid plans and monumental expectations. This next sentence is the most important part.

31:11 No one had seen him coming. And so in this in this uh this interview, Jordan said something that I've I have saved on my phone forever. And he talks about, you know, everybody after he retires, even when he was towards the end of his career is like, Oh, this guy's the next they would name all these other Basketball players. Some of'em even had names as Baby Jordan.

31:29 Uh you know, younger guys. They're saying this is the next Jordan, this is the next Jordan. And this is what Jordan said about this, which I think ties into what Ralph Samps just told us, and no one had seen him coming. This is what Michael Jordan says. Don't be in a rush to try to find the next Michael Jordan. First of all, you didn't find me.

31:45 I just happen to come along. You and this is the most important part. You won't have to find that next person. It's going to happen. Okay, so let's go to his greatest skill. Remember, freshman

31:57 I think we're still I'm pretty sure he's still a freshman here. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Okay, yep, it is. Okay, so this is on the ability to listen. to take in helpful information and apply it. Uh, easily the great and he doesn't have a monopoly on his skill. That's something you and I can do, right? Easily the greatest reason Jordan was successful in those first months.

32:15 Yeah, at Chapel Hill. With his ability to listen. To his coaches, his capacity to be coached. Was his single most impressive attribute. Beyond even the eighteen year old's spectacular physical gifts.

32:27 Dean Smith asserted. I had never seen a player listen so closely. to what the coaches said and then go and do it. And I love this anecdote. It's in the book, but it's also in the last dance. Even so Jordan's approach was not perfect. He's eighteen, of course. It's impossible that it'd be perfect, right?

32:44 Jordan's occasionally Casual effort. had raised a red flag. Uh when Roy Williams challenged him on it. Jordan replied that he was working as hard as the others.

32:54 Which prompted Williams to reply that if he wanted to accomplish great things, he had to work that much harder than the others. previous in this conversation was Jordan telling Williams that he wanted to be the best, right? He wanted to be the best player. So it says William and then this is the result. Williams was struck afterward by the fact that it only took one conversation with Jordan. No one would ever outwork him again. My greatest skill was being teachable.

33:19 Jordan later observed. I was like a sponge. And that's also made me think it's like why I'm constantly pushing, you know, encouraging other people to read as many biographies as you can, as like spend as much time As you have doing this because it's it's a form of listening, right? You're having a one sided conversation.

33:36 There's a a tweet I I saw one time and I saved on my phone. And it says uh I learn more from speaking with other others than reading is complete nonsense. The smartest people in the history of the world have distilled their life's work into a few hundred pages. No, a thirty minute conversation with your buddy won't teach you more. And I think the whole point is there.

33:56 The main point is the smartest people in the history of the world have distilled their life's work into a few hundred pages. When you pick up that book, you're having a one sided conversation and you can't talk back. You were forced to listen. Jordan just got done telling us that his greatest skill was listening, the ability to be teachable and to and to act as a sponge. And absorb it all.

34:16 So now let's go to his second year in college. The first year they win the championship. He wins it. He it's it's called the shot. I've actually watched I actually watched it uh on YouTube several times. Uh it says that that's the another turning point in his life where he goes from Mike Jordan to Michael Jordan because he gets the game winning shot for the championship.

34:32 But it he his uh he's got an older teammate James Worthy, who go who himself goes on to a great career in the NBA. But the section is now we're starting to see that the remember the confidence outstripped the ability to begin with. Now we're seeing they're kind of they're they're slowly that gap is narrowing. And so another reminder, I believe in me.

34:51 There had been those, like James Worthy, who thought his confidence as a freshman had been Had been too much. But this second year they all began to grasp. That Jordan's belief in himself Reflected a level of intensity.

35:05 No one had contemplated before. He's also differentiating himself, Jordan, that is. from other people. You know, people are in college. They're drinking, they're doing drugs. Same thing happens when he gets into the NBA at the very beginning. But they're th now you have uh all these students that lived on the same floor as Jordan when he's nineteen. So this is observations from fellow students about Michael at nineteen.

35:26 And you can really summarize this up this sentence. Or shouldn't you section? Focused. Seriously Committed.

35:32 He was surprised to see little evidence of a party animal. Jordan was a serious guy. Then he had a teammate, he said and they're comparing contrasting Jordan's teammate. Buzz was definitely Not as dedicated to basketball as Michael was. Buzz is getting distracted by partying, by girls, by everything else that you would expect from a college athlete, right? The impression I got

35:50 was that he was so committed he wouldn't allow himself to be sidetracked. Even at that age. He knew he wanted to be the best and he knew the pitfall. And he wasn't gonna fall into it. He seemed very sure of himself.

36:03 Sure of what he wanted to do. And nothing was going to stop him. And this is what Jordan said. I have a dream to play in the NBA. And so one of these guys was a like a

36:16 One of the the people that lived on its floor uh he was his goal after college was to go to like be in movies and um work in Hollywood. And so you know, this is the early eighties. And so the it was really hard for for as an athlete to to watch tape on yourself. So it talks about

36:33 Um he would have Like a I guess a V CR in a camcorder at the time. And so he'd go to the the this guy, I forgot his name. um would would film all of Jordan's games and and maybe his practices. Definitely his games. I don't know about his practices, but what he said, he's like Jordan would come and sit in my room. And watch himself for hours. And he said what he was struck most by is not only how much time he dedicated to to re watching like what he was doing.

36:57 But how silent. Two and was. He wouldn't say a damn word. The whole time. And so again, I think that really is just another

37:04 Example of what Jordan had just said what Deem Smith had just said what all his coaches said his ability to listen. The game is speaking to him. And he's sitting there and shutting up and taking in that information and using that information to improve in the future. the end of the year they they went up

37:20 uh coming up short, they don't win the championship again. And so we see two traits that wind up uh staying with him for the rest of his career still to this day, if you hear him talk. And so it says w uh number one, it he hates losing, and number two, that he demands excellence from his teammates. Regardless, Jordan Jordan plunged into a deep

37:37 Funk. At the abrupt at the abrupt end of the season. It I felt a bitter taste in my mouth, he said. I was so upset with certain teammates. Oh, excuse me, he was so upset with certain teammates he felt lack the necessary competitive drive.

37:49 Such questioning of teammates came to be a common theme in his life. It was very hard. For me it it Excuse me, it was hard to deal with a guy who wasn't as competitive. He later said.

38:02 So he's gonna play for the Olympics. This is his first Olympic experience around this time. This is before they had um professional basketball players, I think,'cause these are all college guys. And they go down to Venezuela to play in uh in the Pan Am games. And something's gonna take place here that reminded me of a trait that Arnold Schwarzenegger had as well. I think the the more it's terms like drive and commitment to excellence.

38:24 The two people that pop to my mind most when I'm reading the book And how like they they compare uh to Jordan is really Steve Jobs in order source segment. We'll see Like the the Arnold says like my drive was not normal.

38:36 Right, people thought it was strange. Like, why are you so driven? Like stop. Do less, is what everybody around him's telling him. We just heard one of the coaches. say Jordan s had would sneak in, he was so obsessed with working, he would sneak in and do more work. Right? It's very rare.

38:49 So they they go to Venezuela, the the the accommodations for the the for the amateur athletes are like really crappy. And then for myself is my room doesn't have windows or doors. Doesn't matter. Uh, Arnold didn't care that his weight room didn't have heat in the winter. He s knew hey, to get my to get to my goal. Breaking into Hollywood.

39:09 He was following Reg Park's blueprint. He's like, I gotta win Mr. Olympia. How do I win Mr Olympia? I have to work out all the time. So he he had not only did he ha go to the gym, but when he come he continued lifting weights, realized the more reps I do the the the closer I get to my goal, right? But

39:23 He was living in Austria at the time. In the winter like his the weight that he had like a very they were they did not have a lot of money. Uh like a very Like primitive weight room. It would literally be below freezing. Arnold didn't care. And we see the same thing with Michael right here. I don't care. I have a goal.

39:39 Get out of my way. I'm doing this. Team USA made its way to Venezuela for the games and discovered their dormitory was little more than a concrete shell. The village wasn't completed. The windows weren't on, the doors weren't on. Jordan took one look at the concrete, then pitched his bag on the floor and said, Let's get to work.

39:55 Hartman was struck by his all business by the all business approach. No whining. No complaining about the accommodations. We're here to get our medal, Jordan told his teammates. Let's go about our business.

40:08 So he's being coached by uh the legendary Bobby Knight at this point in the story. Um, legendary infamous man infamous, whatever you want to describe him as But I thought this was interesting'cause what Bobby Knight's approach to I didn't I didn't know this before I read this one paragraph is very similar to what we learn from Bill Walsh in his book The Score Takes Care of Itself, right? You do every little thing Correctly you don't have to worry about the score. Um so it says Night let his Olympic charges know from the very first day that he was focused on perfection.

40:33 I have told them I have no interest in who we're playing or what the score is. I'm interested in this team being the best team it can possibly be. And I'll push you in any way I can get to that end. So that line I'll push you in any way I can get to the end. That that sounds like that could have easily come out of Jordan's mouth. Okay, so let's get to his business.

40:52 Um, and we'll see the you know the the the the the business that is now Paying'em a hundred and eighty million a year, and who knows where that where that's gonna go in the future, right? Uh It starts out, it's very unknown. It did the prehistory of the Jordan brand is fascinating to me. And so I'm gonna go into that uh I'm gonna spend some a lot of time in this section actually.

41:11 So There there's this guy named Sonny Vicaro. So in basketball in nineteen seventy eight, you could buy your way into a hell of a lot of good graces. And Sunny Vicaro would transform Nike into living proof of that axiom.

41:26 He was a guy from the streets. Basketball wasn't there to let him into its inner circle. So we operated outside the circle. and became incredibly successful for himself and the company. And he has plays a very important role

41:39 And to Nike, he's the one that's gonna tell Nike, No, no, stop spreading your money. What's our budget? Our budget's two point five million? Give it all to this, dude. And so I'll get to that in a minute. By nineteen seventy seven Vicaro uh paid a call to Nike's offices in Oregon to pitch the idea for a new shoe.

41:53 Nike wasn't interested, but Rob Strasser one of the company's top executives at the time was fascinated By Vicar's relationships with all those coaches. So these are all these college coaches that he's been uh developing relationships with They're eventually gonna Nike's gonna give him uh

42:06 this budget and he's like, Hey, go out and pay all these coaches, right? With the g and goal is obviously have them wear our stuff. Uh other uh says They were fascinated by his relationships with all his coaches. Other Nike bosses wanted to have the FBI run a background check on Vicaro. But but Rob would have none of it.

42:23 He hired Vicaro at five hundred dollars a month. and put thirty grand into his bank account and told him to go sign coaches to Nike endorsement contracts. You have to remember, Vicaro said at the time Nike was just a twenty five million dollar company. The main idea was simple enough. Get coaches to outfit their amateur players in Nike shoes, sending a strong message to fans and consumers.

42:44 And so th this is where Fakara's gonna tell him just double down on one person. And this is where Jordan's agent. I don't know if he was the one that came I think he was the one that came up with the uh the idea because before he had a lot of um His his uh

42:56 Like his clientele was was like tennis players, individual players. So they had an idea was like Why don't we we market uh basketball players an individual. Yes, it's a team sport, but focus on the individual. So says uh Nike executives had a two point five million dollar budget for pro basketball shoe endorsements and we're thinking about spreading it among many s young players. Don't do that, Vicaro told said. Uh give it all to the kid. Give it all to Jordan. To make our to make our to make one player work. Nike would have to tie together many things, including shoes and clothing.

43:22 into a unique product line complete with advertising and branding. Rob approached Rob Strasser, the guy from Nike, approached David Falk, which is uh Jordan's agent. And told him that Nike was thinking of signing Jordan. They agree that Jordan should be marketed as they might market a tennis player. As an individual

43:38 More than as a basketball player. And that's just one of m many key decisions. But this idea, okay, let's let's Let's market this guy as an individual that just happens to be playing a team sport. This was fascinating to me. This is Jordan's first reaction to Nike. He wasn't a Divis fan.

43:53 At the time, uh Converse was the official shoot of the NBA, so Converse was in the play. goes to Didas, they wind up turning him down. He did not want to go with Nike. Remember, Nike's a tiny company at this point. The first time in my life I'd ever met Michael, we sat down and talked about him going to Nike. He didn't even know about Nike. I told him Michael, you don't know me, but we're gonna build a shoe for you.

44:11 No one has this shoe. Jordan thought Veccaro so this is a conversation between him and Sonny Vicaro. Jordan Veccaro seemed shady. Michael was a pain in my ass. Fukara recalled. First of all, he didn't compute the money.

44:23 Second of all, he was still a kid. He kept asking for a car and Vicar was like, Do you understand the money we're gonna give you? Like You can buy whatever why are you asking for a car? Well, you can buy whatever car you want. A shoe contract meant nothing back in the eighties. So he was totally indifferent.

44:37 He didn't want to come with us. He wanted to go to Adidas. So eventually there's a there's a there's a uh um a meeting set up between Jordan And his family, his mom and dad. And Nike. And Jordan calls his mom the night before. And so the no on this page is his mom was key.

44:55 She made she m There would be no Jordan Brand, at least not with Nike, that is, without His mother. And so it says the night before Jordan uh and his parents were to fly to Oregon to to meet Uh to hear Nike's

45:06 Uh Officials present their vision. Um, Jordan phoned his parents and told them he wasn't going. He was tired of all his recent travels and the last thing he wanted was a cross country trip. For a shoe he didn't even like.

45:18 Just pause there. Imagine this this alternative history, right? Where there's no Jordan and Nike collaboration. This is crazy. How valuable was his mom? Right? Literally the decision she's about to make. He's worth billions. Dolores Jordan insisted.

45:32 That her son be at the airport in the morning. She would have it no other way. And at this point in his life. he would still listen to her. Eventually he's gonna get so big they They still have a good relationship but they wind up being alienated, uh I think this is right after her his his father's murder. before you know Jordan becomes uncontrollable. But this point in his life

45:49 You know he's still l very much listening. He says later on everything started with her. Uh so it talks about that they're in the meeting fast forwarding. Uh, Vicaro couldn't take his eyes off Dolores Jordan. He watched her expression as this is really smart how Nike pitched this, by the way. He watched her expression as it was explained that her son would receive royalties on each shoe sold. Vecaro told that the uh told the Jordans

46:12 That Nike was all in. For its commitment. We are all in. I was betting my job, Nike was betting their future. It was unbelievable. That was our whole budget. For Michael's mother, it was like a family.

46:25 If we're willing to bet on it. It's like we were saying we wanted you this much. Michael, we're going we're gonna go broke if you bust out. That was the whole point of it. And this is What I mean. It's not like I'm not you're not paying me a wage. We're partners, right? Very smart. It was Dolores' reaction, he recalled. Someone was making them a partner.

46:44 Instead of paying them a wage. So now he's in the NBA. And This this part really just hypes me up'cause it it really does inspire me to like keep pushing and to try to like I you can always do more. And we're seeing from a very young age. He's coming to a really crappy teen.

47:01 There is actually Um Okay, let me read this part first and then I'm gonna I gotta I I I wanna tell you this note I took. on the very end of the Jordan documentary. So it says uh he came to practice ever, practice.

47:13 practice. This is not Alan Irison here. This is Michael Jordan. He came to practice every day like it was game seven of the NBA finals. That's what set the tone for our team. So they say within like the first I think by game three they realized. This this kid is

47:26 the best player we have on the team. Um, there's no doubt I'm playing at a new tougher level, he said. I've got a lot to learn. You knew you knew you had somebody special because Michael was always there at practice and Forty five minutes early. He wanted to work on a shooting and after practice he'd make you help him.

47:42 He'd be working he'd keep working on the shooting. He didn't care how long he was out there. Michael love to play the game. So what I left the note I left myself on this page is Stephen King quote number nine. If you love it, you do it until your fingers bleed. So Um usually in in the show notes you you can see I usually leave a link for um

48:00 Like the my highlights and my usually it's like my top ten highlights. Uh from the books that I read. It's also it it's on my personal email list. If you happen to be interested, I'm Just if for any any book I read for the podcast. I'll just send you an email if you want it.

48:15 Uh it's obviously free. You don't have to Do anything, but um It's just like that to what I'm trying to do is design within constraints. Before I'd have like thirty, forty highlights on there. And I'm like, No, I force myself and it takes quite a while. It's easy to whittle down like maybe

48:28 Let's say you have fifty highlights. It's easy to get it to like twenty. maybe fifteen. It's really hard. Takes a while that like which one am I gonna kick off there, but I like the the the the exercise. And it's a way for me to like go and review things really quickly. Can just pull up what are the ten most important things I learned from the Stephen King book, for example. And so what I then left myself here was that we're talking about Stephen King quote number nine. Um so it says, uh this is what Step King said. Talent renders the whole idea of rehearsal meaningless.

48:54 When you find something which you're talented You do it, whatever it is. Until your fingers bleed or your eyes are ready to fall out of your head. the the sort of strenuous reading and writing program I advocate in this is a r program I'm on. Four to six hours a day every day.

49:11 Will not seem strenuous. I'm doing the reading part, not the writing part, obviously. Uh four to six hour days every day will not seem strenuous if you really enjoy doing these things and have an aptitude for them. So that's exactly what we're seeing from Michael Jordan as a rookie. I'm showing up to practice forty five minutes early. When I'm in practice, I'm practicing like it's game seven in the NBA finals. And then when it's over, I'm pulling in coaches and teammates and saying, Teach me more, teach me more, teach me more.

49:36 And so the notes I also took uh extensive notes on the the Jordan documentary. And so he's talking about he this is he says this in the last episode. Well um especially the last sentence here. So He's comparing and contrasting. He you know, he wins his last title in ninety eight, wins his first one in ninety one.

49:53 Uh, so we're now we're in like nineteen eighty four. So we're he's got seven years of struggle. Before he gets there, right? So this is Jordan Talking. In ninety one, I was young. Full of energy and hungry. In nineteen ninety eight.

50:04 When I've won when you won six out of eight championships, six six championships out of eight years. And y and and and yet just as dominant as you were in ninety one. That's where the craftsmanship came in. I think ninety eight. was much better than any of the other years because of how I was able to use my mind as well as my body. So I just I'm a sucker.

50:24 For him using that word craftsmanship, right? I love that idea. It was maddening. to for me to leave at my peak. But this is why this one sentence. Is really why I wanted to put this in.

50:35 to where we're at in the book. Because it's we're in the shitty what he's gonna call a shitty team, right? We're in that part, right? But it's just really motivating'cause It talks about the power of one individual, the power of a formidable individual. We went from a shitty team

50:50 to one of the all time best dynasties. All you needed. was one little match To start that whole fire. And I love

51:02 That sentence that he said. One little match to start the whole fire and I love that they put it at the end of the documentary too. He right now and this this guy that's showing up forty five minutes before practice Playing like it's game seven. S listening and doing extra work. He is that little match, that one person that's gonna start gigantic fire, and that fire is gonna be one of the all time great dynasties.

51:22 And so he comes right out the gate. He's gonna win rookie of the year, but we' I'm gonna go to the business part. This is the best advertising you could possibly ask for at the time. Th the the NBA had this rule where you could only wear it says uh the league's guidelines called for players to wear white shoes. So the first Jordan one was r the famous red and black model that people are still wearing and using today. And so they wind up um

51:44 They wind up banning that shoe. And so it says uh the Jordan NBA said Jordan would have to pay five thousand dollars each time he wore the new shoe. Uh Nike Nike immediately phoned Sonny Vicaro. Uh, so this is what Sonny said. Both Rob and Peter, these executives at Nike, said fuck'em. That's exactly what they said.

52:01 I said, What do you mean? We're gonna do without him wearing the shoe on the court? And Stressor quickly decided that no, Nike was going to have was gonna have Jordan wear the shoes anyway. And then the company would pay his fines each night. uh then the NBA could not have handed a better marketing platform to Nike.

52:18 When you tell the public that something is banned, what does the public always do? Tell them they're not allowed to do something and they do it. Nike would ring up an astounding hundred and fifty million dollars. In air Jordan sails. Over the first three years.

52:34 Brought Jordan the first wave Of profound personal will. So they had thought Now here's the weird thing, and I can't get confirmation here. So

52:44 Uh the thing I'm about to tell you, I got confirmation. So Nike thought that they would sell three million dollars worth of Jordan shoes. Within the first four years. This the author just said that they sold a hundred and fifty In the first three years. I everywhere else I've read besides this book Said that they full they sold a hundred and twenty six million the first year.

53:04 So I don't know if they did a hundred and twenty six million the first year. Or a hundred for fifty million the first three years. I mean that is quite a big difference. What they're telling you is it's way higher than what Nike forecasts it. And part of that is due to the fact that you know, you have this gigantic media attention now saying, Hey, these shoes are so Like they're they're banned and now you have a lot more people that know about it. And it it obviously helps that this guy came out like right away. Like, okay, he's one of the best players.

53:29 I'm gonna fast forward um He He he scores he winds up scoring s uh Sixty three points. in a playoff game, which was a single game record at the time.

53:40 This is in nineteen eighty six. So he's been in the the year the league for a few years. But the reason I bring this up to your attention Is because after the game There's a famous quote that Larry Bird, he's playing against the Celtics, Larry Bird. And he says that's God disguised as Michael Jordan, Bird said afterward.

53:54 And Jordan. w again, w a main theme if you if you listen to him talking, you read about him, is he really respected those that came before him. He wants like He wants to learn from them. He wants to compete with them, right? He wants to and in and he wants to be better than

54:08 This is very similar to Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs would idolize Founders that came before him. He wasn't worried about, you know, being the richest person. He wanted legacy, like historical legacy. He wanted to be on Mount Rushmore and in indeed, I think in Walt in Isaacs' biography it says that he wanted to be

54:24 Like a step up above his heroes, right? Drawing the same way. So Larry at the point that Larry said this Uh Larry's one of the best, if not the best player in the league.

54:35 the time he had three straight MVPs, multiple championships, if I'm not mistaken. And this is what Larry this is Again, go back to the s thing you and I have been talking about, like the difference between real like false confidence and real confidence like this is you have somebody that's extremely talented Uh somebody you admire telling you

54:54 Dude, you're really good at this, right? I earned Larry Bird's respect. To me that showed me I was on the right track. That was the biggest compliment I had. At that particular time.

55:05 Okay, so he's Fantastic player, one of the best players in the league. getting all star games, scoring championships, all this other stuff, but they're not winning. Right. They're not winning the like This is where he realizes that it goes back to Jordan being smart.

55:16 Doesn't mean he's gonna come along easily, but he understands like I I'm a single person cannot win the game. I've gotta come up with a different philosophy. So this is going to be an intro to Text Winner. Text winner. I don't know why I could just call them text. Text winner. And this is going to be the architect of the system that Uh that

55:34 that the Bulls use to win their championships. Phil Jackson continu Phil Jackson and and Tex continue to use this for the Lakers after um Jordan retires. But Let me let me read my note to you first,'cause I think this will actually be beneficial, right? 'Cause uh what Text is what's happening here is like stuff mean you and I can do, right? So there's four things I'm gonna tell you about text.

55:53 One, he looked at an existing industry differently than other people. Okay. Very important. Number two. He was able to innovate.

56:01 As a result of that difference. Number three. He developed his own philosophy on work. And number four. Jordan's response to this.

56:11 Jordan said. Text taught me a lot about basketball. I loved him. That is a quote from I think that's a quote from his Hall of Fame speech. So let's go into this. And this is about the triangle. They call it the triple post and the triangle. I'm gonna Just to call it a triangle, okay?

56:25 in late six uh in his late sixties at the time, so Jordan's this young, you know, aggressive kid. Uh I'll see. Twenty three, maybe twenty some somewhere around there. So and and Texas in the sixties.

56:39 In his late sixties, Winner had more than four decades of first rate coaching experience. Other people in basketball scoffed at Tex Winner. As some sort of oddball. Winners offense was not just X and O's and he liked to point out As he liked to point out, but a system.

56:54 A philosophy for playing the game. Complete with an entire set of related fundamentals. Text was foc said again. Text was focused on detail in a way that no other pro coach even considered. Tex was a very obstinate, aggressive man.

57:11 He believed in the triangle. That was his gospel. He wanted it installed. So he's not the head coach. Think this might be Doug Collins is a coach.

57:20 Eventually. He's gonna get pushed out. Uh Jerry Krauss really believed in in Text Winner. And Jerry Krauss is the GM of uh Yeah. Um and kind of the villain in the last dance. But uh says Winner believed he had been hired to teach. So he taught wherever possible.

57:35 With the sort of frank, direct feedback That most players had not heard since middle school. And so this direct frankness obviously is gonna be a little bit of uh conflict which is completely normal. This is a famous story, so winds up n um, you know Texas trying to get Jordan to play more team ball.

57:54 And so it says as Jordan walked in and Jordan at this point in in his career, he's you know, dominating the ball, scoring will. does really well during regular season, maybe even at the beginning of the playoffs, but they're not they can't beat a team, right? If you're an individual, you can't beat a team. So it says as Jordan walks up the floor Text warned or text told him there's no I and team. Jordan looked at Winner and replied, Yeah, but there's an I in win. So it's gonna take several years of failure for them to eventually Doug Collins gets pushed out.

58:21 Uh, Phil Jackson's in. Phil Jackson is always focused on detail on defense, he says. So he's the head of uh He's the head coach, but then he lets Techs teach everybody offense. And so that's when they're they're gonna I'll I'll get to all this in the future. I'm just telling you. 'Cause it's it's several pages in front of us. I do want to pull out something that's that's in the interim though.

58:38 This is about the fact that they they He didn't just start with the Jordan brand, right? You signed your first Java Nike, then he has success, so he resigned another one, but this insistence on on having equity on being a partner is really important. As Michael's getting more and more attention, he sells, of course, more shoe more shoes. And so he's starting to build the foundation of what will eventually be his future. billion dollar empire.

58:59 Uh so it says first I thought this was a fad, Jordan would say, looking back on his response to the shoe line. But it is far greater now than it used to be. The numbers are just outrageous. Eventually a fat new Nike contract would be signed, a deal that would be opened the door a few years later. for the emergence of the Jordan brand and create unimaginable wealth for the athlete. So it talks about the sequence of events, she signs first.

59:19 He then he gets the big raise, then the Jordan Brand. That was a seminal deal in the history of deals, there's no question. And to Michael's credit and to Mike and to Nike's credit, they created an empire. And so I saw somebody I was reading um somebody analyze the deal. And they said not only is it the the the greatest single athlete endorsement deal of all time, but it's also the greatest, like

59:41 So he he made more money than anybody else? But it also said he's he's underpaid. Those two things could be true at the same time, which is wild to think about. So

59:51 Do you got an idea? Uh Jordan will listen, but you also you need him to fail to learn. Right. And so I'm I'm gonna pull out the this is during the the point in his career where they just cannot get past such

1:00:05 The Detroit Pistons, right? Can't even get to the finals if you if you don't go to Detroit. The Detroit's gonna wind up winning two championships. It's a very good team, obviously. But the the Noah left myself here and this is he needed this failure. To become better. That is the m the main theme I'm trying to talk to you about, but

1:00:22 his team's weaknesses and you want your weaknesses exposed. Right. We just talked about what Nick Sabin said. Average players want to be left alone. Great players wanna be told the truth. They wanna be coached all the time. And you wanna know if you're you're messing up. And so the competition the know myself is here, it's the competition has studied you.

1:00:39 And found a way to beat you. What do you do next? The Jordan rules, which is the the the system Mm. that the Detroit used to to counteract Jordan's bulls.

1:00:52 Um, did Jordan Rule succeeded against b uh J uh against the Bulls so well that they became a textbook for guarding athletic scores. In the seventeen regular season and playoff games between the Bulls and the Pistons over two seasons, The Pistons would win fourteen. That is an ass kicking.

1:01:10 You're playing somebody seventeen times and they beat you fourteen times. That is how lopsided this is. That scheme helped Detroit win two NBA championships, but it also helped Chicago in the long run. Check this out. By forcing Jordan and the Bulls to find an answer. I think that Jordan rules defense as much as anything else. played a part in the making of Michael Jordan Tex Winner said.

1:01:33 And again, this is not a straight line. It's not a straight line. It's an up and down process. And so we see Jordan, he's still not ready, still young, still immature. He has not figured it out yet. These to me, this is like the most inspiring parts of the of these these these life stories, right? So saying afterward, his coach Doug Collins suggested to Jordan that he was taking too many shots and not hitting enough of them. Jordan responded with a sort of childness childishness.

1:01:59 For game five, Jordan made his point by taking a mere eight shots from the floor, so he's throwing a fit. It was the kind of action that had driven Collins to privately tell Reinsdorf, who owns the bulls, that the team simply could not win with Jordan. Remember Jordan is still not ready. He has not figured it out. Jordan was angry. And frustrated. I guess.

1:02:17 To know myself on this page I need to tell you. This part. is called agony and terror. Imagine believing Your dream will never come true.

1:02:28 Jordan was angry and frustrated. But he wasn't about to reel reveal his pain at the loss. He would say, Don't let don't let anyone know that you're hurting. Don't let other folks know what's in your mind. You know as much about them as possible.

1:02:41 But for them to know More about you is to give them an edge. He hid his frustrations, and He hid his sadness. He hid his disappointments and his agony.

1:02:51 The Pistons would go on to claim their first title and the Bulls would face yet another bout of recrimination Turmoil and change. And check out this quote here. For a while. It looked like we were never.

1:03:03 Going to get past that. And so Krauss makes the decision even though Doug got them uh Doug Collins got them to the Eastern Conference Finals. Why they they won a bunch of games, who winds up letting them go at the end of the season, puts in Jackson. This is a first smart move by Phil. Um And this is his first idea as the new head coach. I brought in Phil and we talk philosophy.

1:03:24 Uh, the first thing he said is I've always been a defensive oriented guy. I'm gonna tr I'm gonna turn the offense over to Tex. and I'm gonna run the triangle. So fills up An interesting thing. An interesting guy.

1:03:36 And um Yeah. I might read his his autobiography too,'cause I think it's fascinating. Um but This is

1:03:44 I I gotta bring this up'cause it's in the book and it's in the documentary and I have notes on on both. So I wanna talk to you about this,'cause this was actually surprising. I also I think the first time I might have missed this when I watched Last Dance. I actually think Kobe was the one that brought this to my attention. Um'cause Kobe noticed this about Phil Jackson and the Bulls and he said that uh you would notice when you're watching the games like Whether they were up twenty or down by twenty, they were unbothered. And so Coby liked the idea of the the the uh

1:04:11 copying this practice and this idea of mindfulness of being in the moment of being over complete control. And in the documentary it talks about uh Think it was the the year they got past they finally got to pass the pistons, like Uh

1:04:23 Pippin, Scotty Pippen. Uh Jordan's right hand. Uh man was fouled really hard and before they'd get in like emotional outbursts and like physical fights and stuff. And they knew they were they were gonna beat the Pistons.

1:04:35 And Jordan, I think says in the documentary, um Once you got hard found, just Just We've

1:04:42 Didn't react. Like I'm not gonna let you see me get upset. I'm completely unbothered. I'm completely in the moment, like He said I At that moment I knew like we had'em.

1:04:51 Like they they were playing emotional m emotion blur's judgment. And we were cold blooded, right? And so this has to do with this this mindfulness that they that Phil taught Michael, which is really surprising because you think Michael's just a psychopathic driven competitive person.

1:05:06 Kobe being two, and yet they both adopted this mindfulness. This is it's like a derivative of Zen Zen Buddhism Buddhism. Let me read this to you. And I'm gonna go to the last. episode of the documentary as well. Uh Jackson's his essenti eccentricities at first. It would take f time for him to get his players to accept meditation and mindfulness. And his other unique practices.

1:05:27 Remember, this is another. I love the idea of like taking an industry. That already exist. and analyzing it and then doing something different, right? It's never too late to make a change. I don't know how many coaches in the NBA And

1:05:39 At this point we're doing this. Uh in time, Jordan would take great benefit. From Jackson's Zen approach. and the mindfulness sessions he provided to team the team No matter how unusual they seemed.

1:05:52 And so In the last episode of The Last Dance. They had just won. The final championship. Well, actually let me read so something that happens at the beginning. There's like another um author who's wrote uh I think he's written I think at least

1:06:06 I think he's wrote two other books. Biographies of Michael. And this is what he said about Michael. Most people struggle to be present. Most people live in fear because we project the past into the future.

1:06:17 Michael is a mystic. He's completely present. He was never anywhere else. His gift was that he was completely present. The big downfall of otherwise gifted players is thinking about failure. He would say

1:06:30 Why would I think about missing a shot I haven't taken yet? And so now this is in ninety eight after they win their last championship. The night of the championship. Jordan's playing the piano. It looks like they're in a hotel room. I can't even tell where they are, but he's got like reporters and stuff in there, too. And so says uh the North Myself is Jordan's playing the piano in So Total Room after winning a championship as championship number six. And asked

1:06:51 You got another one in you. And his sentence was very interesting, something that we're see that in where we're in the book is what Phil's introducing him to. This is This is Jordan. It's the moment, man.

1:07:04 It's the moment. That Zen Buddhism shit. Get in the moment and stay there. Just stay in the moment. Until next October.

1:07:13 And then we'll know where the hell we are. So now I want to go back to this idea of adopting this philosophy. as a triangle. And again, the the when you're learning something new, when you're trying to change something The transition is not going to be easy. And this transition that they're in in the history of the Bulls, which is gonna build their foundation for that dynasty, right?

1:07:31 It reminds me of the Robinson Crusoe story. in that book The Tao of Capital. I think that's founders number seventy, somewhere back there by Mar Spitznagel. I'm gonna read a quote from there in a minute. But it's idea that you go slow now. So you can go faster later.

1:07:45 Okay. The more he learned about it, the more he saw how steadfastly Tex believed in it. You're talking about Jordan there. And Phil was the head uh and Phil was the head coach and he was saying how things are going to be. And it was like a gold mine.

1:07:55 You got players in the system seeing it and prospering. But that took much selling by Jackson and months with the team under under Tex Winners instruction. The transition was not easy. Some observers sense an atmosphere bordering on mutiny Over Jackson's first two seasons.

1:08:10 As Jordan's frustrations built. Making these changes. would require much patience. So from Jordan's perspective, at this point, it could seem like we're going to step backwards, right? We're going slower on purpose, but we will go farther and faster. In the future. Uh the the operative phrase became that Jordan was going to have to learn to trust his teammates.

1:08:31 Later, Tex would look back and marvel at Jackson's determination to stick with the offense and his persuasiveness with Jordan. They didn't know it at the time, but they were embarking on the most remarkable error in pro basketball history. Rooted in the great discipline. Rooted in the great discipline. Jordan and his teammates began developing that first year.

1:08:49 Their philosophy, their system. made Jackson's Bulls unlike any other team in the NBA. It didn't happen all at once. He started to see that over a period of time. As the concepts built up.

1:09:05 And so what do I mean about that? So the Dow capital This whole the central theme of that book is a roundabout. Uh the the main point. And yeah, I've read that book uh so many times. I've read uh uh the I've listened to some chapters I can't the chapter on Conifer trees?

1:09:20 I think it's chapter number three, if I remember correctly. Can't remember how many times I listened to that. I still don't even think I understand it completely. I definitely don't understand it like the author does, right? But the the the there's two stories in that book that really synthesized his main point that helps me at least have an a a tiny bit of grasp of his overall idea. And there's a story of Henry Ford and

1:09:39 And of Robinson Crusoe about this idea of taking a step backwards. To being uh to to being uh better than you otherwise would have been without that step backwards in some time in the future. So

1:09:51 He talks about Robin Crus Crusoe on the island trying to catch fish. So just a few highlights. Uh, you know, he needs to catch at least five fish a day to to To sustain himself. And so he s he winds up cutting back to

1:10:04 to trying to invest in ways to catch even greater fish with less effort in the future. Robinson Crusoe ultimately catches more fish First me. Robinson Crusoe ultimately catches more fish by first catching fewer fish. Very counterintuitive to humans, right? And exactly what Jordan's going through in his career at this point in the book. by focusing his efforts in the immediate towards indirect means. Not ends.

1:10:26 It is highly strategic. Yielding. Or losing now. to rela to realize an advantage in the future. So instead of catching five fish today.

1:10:36 five fish the the next day he catches I think like you know two or three And but he's using the time that he would be fishing. to build a net and a boat and all these other things that are gonna make him better in the future, okay? At last the boat and the net are ready. The hungry crusseaux takes to the water and in less than two hours catches five fish, which used to take him all day. Now with his daily needs met, he can invest in other roundabout production.

1:10:58 such as a rack for drying fish, and evaporating sea water to collect salt and preserve them. Soon Crusoe. has an exceedingly efficient fishing operation. Catch far more fish than you can consume. And accumulating a stockpile of protein for his diet.

1:11:13 and equivalently a stockpile of time. for replacing and creating even more capital goods. As crucial. Crusot shows us Entrepreneurs engaging

1:11:23 in roundabout production must contemplate the basic considerations of how long it takes What it costs. How many resources must be invested to get increased output? and how long one has to wait for a payback.

1:11:37 Henry Ford The embodiment of the roundabout entrepreneur would invest a tremendous amount of time and effort To assemble the tools of production. In order to improve speed. efficiency and an output.

1:11:48 In the manufacturing process in the future. So we might take a temporary step back, might be a year or two. But eventually this system, this philosophy will w will enable us to to Accumulate. resources in the case of an entrepreneur, that could be time and money in the case of uh basketball team championships that we wouldn't have uh we wouldn't have been able to get to otherwise, right? Without taking this step backwards.

1:12:09 So this is right before they go on their first championship run. There's an old axiom that's really t applicable here that it's darkest before the dawn. Okay. This is the right before. Check this out. This is You had a replay. So he's got two championship runs, right? This is the first one.

1:12:24 The second one it comes right after Great deal of frustration right before a great deal of frustration. Same thing's gonna happen in the second championship run. Alright, so it says Furious with his teammates, Jordan cursed them yet again at halftime, then sobbed in the back of the team bus afterward. I was crying and screaming, he recalled.

1:12:44 There's that pain. Excellence is often the capacity for taking paint. I made up my mind right then and there and it would never happen again. That was the summer I first started lifting weights. If I was gonna take some of this beating, I was also gonna start dishing it out. So it's talking about the physical play that that the Pistons played with, right? They were just beating the shit out of them. And he was w you know, was really thin.

1:13:03 I think it's like fifteen pounds of muscle. I forgot what it was. It was it was a good deal. I got tired of them dominating me physically, which each uh with each Chicago loss in the playoffs, critics had grown more convinced that bulls were flawed as a one man team. Others wondered if you're not going to be able to Check this out. N this is what they're saying about Jordan, right? He's about to be to ru to to

1:13:21 Start what is g gonna be w the greatest One of the greatest dynasties in the NBA. Others p other people were wondering. If they weren't headed for the same anguish as Elgin Baylor, Pete Marovic, Dave Bling, all great players who never played on a championship team. Jordan was infuriated.

1:13:37 By such speculation and criticism. He was literally nauseated. by the losses each year in Detroit. So I'm gonna fast forward a little bit. Start playing as a team.

1:13:49 This is where they're gonna win their first championships. This is after seven years of struggle. And you you can see this, uh, Jordan even used that term. Pretty sure he's hugging the trophy. Right after they they beat the Lakers in the ninety one finals. And then notify myself is even a legendary talent like Michael Jordan needed to be coach.

1:14:06 This is about him, you know, trusting you can't win as an individual, you have to win as a team. And so let me tell you the story. It's fantastic. Come it plays out over a few paragraphs. So says the story's been passed along by many Jordan teammates who supposedly suffered his demands and indifference over the years. It's one of my favorite stories, Steve Kerr. Who filled John Paxson's role on subsequent Bulls teams said in a two thousand twelve interview.

1:14:26 So This is where he learns to trust John Paxson. Michael having a r Michael's having a rough second half. They're double teaming him and he's forcing some shots. And Phil calls a timeout. with like minutes left in the game.

1:14:38 And he's looking right at Michael and goes. Michael, who's open? And Michael won't look up. He goes. Michael, who's open.

1:14:47 Finally Michael looks up at him and goes, PAX And Phil goes Well throw him the fucking ball. And this is a result. This is what I mean, even a legendary talent like Michael Jordan needs to be coach. Paxon would make five long buckets in the final four minutes at a as time and time again.

1:15:04 Jordan penetrated, drew the defense, the double team. Then kick it out. Paxon would finish with twenty and Pippen thirty two, as the Bulls closed out the championship. with a win in game five. The tears became a tide as Jordan made his way through the bedlam of the locker room to inhabit the moment he'd sought for seven years.

1:15:23 I had never lost hope. He said. Okay, so they wind up w winning again in ninety two and then for in the summer after they go, uh this is the dream team, the the Olympics. And there's a conversation between uh that's taking place between Jordan and and Scottie Pippen. on the bus and they're talking about their Olympic teammates.

1:15:42 And This part. really like fired me up because they were surprised and By their by their laziness. Like they Just like when Jordan went to to play at the five star and he's like, Whoa, I can actually be playing with these guys. Like I'm

1:15:54 You know, they might have not have known me. I'm just country boy from Wilmington, but like I'm just as good as these people, maybe even better. They didn't realize how hard they were working and the dedication they had to their craft that others didn't. So Once you realize like oh it m kinda makes sense, like He was about to talk about this other player named Clyde Drexler.

1:16:11 Clyde played for the Portland Trailblazers. Um there's a great There's a if you ever want to look on YouTube. Where it says like just put in Michael Jordan, I took the I took it personally. And it's like somebody uh there's a bunch of these videos, they they cut up all the times over this ten hour documentary.

1:16:26 Uh the last dance about All the time, like Jordan just she constantly takes things personally, right? And one of these is talking about like going into the the the the the matchup in the ninety two finals was That Clyde is, you know. Jordan's main rival.

1:16:40 And You you know, you spend so much time watching this this documentary, I'm starting to laugh at Times or I don't know if it's

1:16:47 Did they expect it? Laughter. And one of this is where um He had already said over and over again, like I took this personally. This happened. I took this personally. And so he talks about this and he says, uh Clyde was a threat.

1:16:58 I'm not saying he wasn't a threat. But me being compared to him? I took offense to that and I just started laughing. And then I read this part in the book and I'm like, Oh, this kinda makes sense because He beats him in the finals, then he plays with him on the the dream team, right? And then he's doing this interview like twenty years later, and it kinda you'll see what he means. So Scotty and and and Michael are talking here and it says, Just imagine, Pippen told Jordan, how good Clyde Drexler would be

1:17:22 If he worked on fundamentals with Tex Winner. Like so many NBA players, Drexler was operating mostly off his great store of talent. absent any serious attention. to the important details of the game. So this is how you can differentiate yourself from your competition, right? Jordan had been surprised.

1:17:39 To learn how lazy Many of his Olympic teammates were about practice. How they were d this is a so, so important. This is the most important sentence of this entire section. How they were deceiving themselves. About what the game required.

1:17:55 Now this is very fascinating'cause there's always parallels, right? There's never just one It made me think of uh I just happened to hear this clip. Um of Chris Bosch. I forgot where he was talking. I know, you know, it was his Hall of Fame. Maybe it's it might have been his Hall of Fame speech. I can't remember, but Chris Bosch was on the two thousand eight Olympic team with Kobe Bryant.

1:18:15 And I'm gonna read this to you. This is fascinating. Tell me it doesn't just relate to what we just heard. Jordan saying how they were deceiving themselves about what the game required. And so Chris says I wanted to establish myself as a young leader on the team by waking up bright and early on day one. So the goal was to be the first one at breakfast. I set my alarm.

1:18:33 I make sure I'm up before sunrise, I get out of bed. I put on my gear and I head downstairs. But when I get there. Kobe's already there. With ice packs on his knees.

1:18:43 Drenched in sweat. It took me a minute to figure it out. But this guy was not only awake before me. He had already worked out. He had just played in the finals days earlier.

1:18:55 Meanwhile, I'd been off for months and I was still exhausted. What he did that day was incomprehensible to me. That dedication he had Only days after falling short of an NBA championship. That taught me something I have never forgotten.

1:19:13 Legends aren't defined by the s their successes. They are defined by how they bounce back from their failures. So let's go back to this sentence. Jordan had been surprised to learn how lazy many of his Olympic teammates We're about practice. How they were deceiving themselves about what the game required.

1:19:33 So that is something I I that's been on my mind a lot this week. Like what can I do? What what is my version of practice to make sure that I'm D like when I come and talk to you. I put in as much as much work as I possibly can. to make sure that these podcasts are as good as they can be.

1:19:50 And that can be applied to Jordan's applying it to his I'm applying it to founders, you're applying it to whatever it is you do during the day. He was surprised to learn how lazy many of his Olympic teammates were about practice, how they were deceiving themselves. About what the game required.

1:20:06 So let's skip ahead in the book. And this is this might be I don't know. I don't It might be my favorite thing.

1:20:13 Because it's like again something I want to constantly think about and to to To take away he's like love to know myself is love to practice. Believe in it. And so this is Jordan about the this was this is what built his Life. Think about like he understands okay.

1:20:30 My business, the Jordan brand that I now have equity in, is only going to be successful. And he said this over and over again. It's like marketing like the marketing I did for that brand was what I did on the court. If I was scoring two points, if I was getting bounced on the playoffs, no one's buying my shoes. Right. So this is a you really think about practice as a foundation.

1:20:47 His love of practice makes w winds up making him billions of dollars over the course of his career, right? That's what he says. Rather than miss games, Jordan had to sit out uh sit Jordan had to sit out his favorite time with the team. I have always like practice. And I hate to miss it. When you miss that one day, you feel you've missed a lot.

1:21:05 You take extra work to make up for that one day. Check the sentence out. I have always been a practice player. I believe in it. Now I'm skipping. I mean, obviously, you know, this book is almost 700 pages. I have to skip over a lot of parts. We're fast forwarding a few years.

1:21:20 They've won the third championship right after that, his father is murdered. He retires, goes to play baseball, eventually comes back. To basketball. And so this is where we're gonna see a direct parallel with Steve Jobs. This is uh this is after Jordan's eighteen month hiatus. Steve Kerr had never played with Jordan before. And so it says Ker was stunned by the way Jordan sees control of the entire team's mental state.

1:21:44 For better or worse. We had no idea, Kur said. He was so intense and condescending in many ways. None of us felt comfortable. On a daily basis he would dominate practice.

1:21:57 Not just physically but emotionally in an intimidating fashion. He was going to make us compete. Whether we wanted to or not. There were certain days where you're exhausted. And Michael doesn't need rest. He doesn't sleep. Even today, I don't even understand this. There's a lot of stories in the book about that, by the way. He doesn't need rest. And other guys do.

1:22:15 And on those days when people were tired, he would ridicule us and cajole us and yell at us. It was tough. It was very hard to deal with. So there is a comment that Steve Jobs made in this interview, I think he's still at next. This is in between

1:22:31 His time it's his two cents at Apple, right? And he he talks about he has this metaphor. I've heard it referred to as the Steve Jobs Rock parable. Um so he's got a metaphor for teams. working on a product that they're passionate about. It's very similar to to to my Michael Jordan's approach, right?

1:22:47 Uh so he says there this is Steve talking. There's an eighty year old man that lived up the street from me. This is a young kid at the time it's happening. One day he showed me a dusty old rock tumbler. We took regular old ugly rocks and some liquid and powder and put them in a tumbler. He said come back tomorrow. Uh the next day we opened up the can and we took out these amazingly beautiful polished rocks. The same common stones that had gone in. They're rubbing against each other.

1:23:11 Creating a little friction, fighting, creating a little noise. had come out these beautiful polished rocks. It is It is through a group of incredibly talented people bumping against each other. Fighting

1:23:23 Working together. They polish each other. They polish the ideas. So that metaphor of that, you know, the gonna have conflict in great teams that are trying to do things that are difficult. Steve Jaz had it at Apple.

1:23:36 Jordan's having it. Steve Current just told us Jordan's having it in practice constantly. It's the same idea. So he's coming back, but he had been playing b he came back towards the end of the season. They only had like a few weeks for the playoffs if I remember correctly. And they um You know, he's not in shape.

1:23:50 He hasn't he hasn't had a entire season to go with the team, so he winds up losing. And this is what I mean about the darkest before the dawn, right before his This the second three Pete. Same thing's happening. Um so the Uh I I watch this on YouTube too, where Nick Anderson on Lando Magic winds up stealing the ball

1:24:06 At the very end. And steals the ball from Jordan. Basically Jordan lost the the game for his team, right? And he talked a lot of junk. He's like number forty five,'cause Jordan came back wearing forty five.

1:24:18 is not number twenty three, Anderson said afterward. And so it says it was a profoundly humbling moment for Jordan. He gets the ball stolen from him half court by Nick Anderson. We had the game one, and then we go to lose we go on to lose that sea uh that series. His last title was in ninety three. So he goes. Two full years.

1:24:35 While fe without feeling like he's on top of the world. Failing his team had bruised his outsized pride. For years he had taken the bull's fortunes on his shoulders, and And lifted them. with brilliant performances in front of millions of adoring witnesses.

1:24:51 Now It was his fall. That was on display. And so Jordan's uh Trainers, this guy named Tim Grover.

1:25:00 I actually listened to his audio book. He has a audio book about what he learned from training Jordan and Kobe and other athletes called Relentless. It's an extreme book. If you pick that up, by the way, there's just gonna be some s very surprising like he's very frank, let's just put it that way. Um But Tim told the story. He's like normally at the end of the season Jordan would take a little bit of time off.

1:25:19 And he would tell me when he wanted to meet again, so I right after they lose uh the magic, but it's just happened. Tim is having a conversation with Jordan. He's like, All right, well I'm I'm about to take off. Give me a call when you want to meet. And George says, I'll see you tomorrow. And Tim's reaction is like oh Okay.

1:25:34 I'll see you tomorrow then. Very he's like, I'm not wasting any time on getting better. So he knows he needs to get in basketball shape. Um you don't get better at something. This is another left myself on this page. You don't get better at something by not doing it. And his pride is on the line.

1:25:47 That is motivating. I'm the kind of person who thrives on challenges, Jordan said. And I took pride in people saying I was the best player in the game. But when I left the game I fell down the ratings. Down below people like Shaq and Akeem Olajuan. That's why I committed myself to going through a whole training camp.

1:26:00 playing every exhibition game and playing every regular season game. At my age, I have to work harder. I cannot afford to cut corners. So this time I plan to go into playoffs. With a whole season of conditioning under my belt. So now is he fully committed to

1:26:15 Conditioning. and taking care of his body, but we g we gotta take care of our mind and our body. Right? And um I love that quote that's in Arnold's Arnold Schwarzenegger's uh autobiography. It's like the Greeks gave us uh he he learned it from one of his first mentors. Yeah.

1:26:30 This older guy was telling him it's like don't just work out your b your Your body, work out your mind. He said the Greeks gave us the Olympics and the great philosophers. You gotta take care of both. This is where he starts getting into zen and and meditation. Uh there's a psychologist that's hired by Phil Jackson. This guy's named George. George uh Mumford is psychologist and mindfulness expert would uh taught the players to meditate. In short time, Jordan gained a new level of trust with Mumford. And told the psychologist.

1:26:53 that if he had met him earlier in his career He might not have spent his life a prisoner in his hotel room. So that comment really stood out for me for two reasons. One, how much of success in life comes down to how we manage our mind, that internal monologue that's constantly messing with us. And then two.

1:27:10 Jordan's level of fame can destroy a person. So let's fast forward a little bit. This is Jordan on his leadership. And this again is going to echo that Steve Jobs. Be a yardstick of quality. Most people are not. used to environment where excellence is is expected. And it's just this is what he says. And it's he's very you know, this is a very formidable hard dude. He's not He's not playing around it by any means. You have a better understanding for me as a leader if you have the same motivation, the same understanding for what we're trying to achieve and what it takes to get there.

1:27:38 Now if you and I don't get along, certainly you won't understand the dedication it takes to win. So I run those people off. I don't run them off with the intention of running them off. I run'em off with the intention of having them understand what it takes to be a champion. Remember he just said these people didn't understand what the game requires.

1:27:53 what it takes to dedicate yourself to winning. You have to focus. As a leader That's what I have to do. That's going through the fucking stages of being on a losing team.

1:28:03 to a championship team. You're talking about that's where he learned it. He's like, I didn't start on championship teams, I started out as a loser. I had to learn this, I had to transform myself into a champion. And this is not going to be easy. So this is the last year he's playing on the Bulls.

1:28:19 There's an entire chapter when he's on the wizards. Uh As a Jordan fan, I have to just omit that from my memory. I I Deny that ever happened, by the way. Uh but

1:28:29 This was really interesting. Um All good things come from compounding. Right, and at this point Jordan has spent Multiple decades. Training

1:28:38 Learning. working really hard, being coached constantly and he says, It is quite possible That no one ever did anything. Better than Michael Jordan played basketball later in his career. Jordan said that he thought it the last year was his best year. The fact that he used his mind and his body, right?

1:28:53 There is a quote in the last dance that says something like Michael Jordan was as good as his job as anyone else has ever been at their job. And I think that's w why he's worthy of study, right? So a big part in this book and in the last dance is the idea that like They should have had the opportunity to come back. There was

1:29:11 And you see this is very hard to keep high performing. high ego teams, companies together. It's just nearly impossible. And so I'm just I'm not gonna spend too much time on this because I think the documentary does A good job explaining everything.

1:29:24 Especially just watch the last episode and I think Jordan's The way Jordan left it. It's just They should have had the right to come back. Right. You didn't have to have

1:29:32 And you got, you know, giant egos in the in the office, you have giant egos in the coaching staff, you have giant egos in The players like it's just It's disappointing to see, but completely understandable, right? So the nofa is this is not winning. Winning is winning. And they made the classic mistake of not realizing how good they had it while they had it.

1:29:51 So this is about decisions made. Uh the Rhine Store if the owner was always like to win business deals. That's what it means by winning. This is not actually winning. He says Pippen was key to Jordan's success. But Reindorf wanted to trade him for cheaper assets. That would allow Reinsdorf to win the deal. But it was hardly a way to treat the best basketball team in history.

1:30:08 Conversations with Krauss, the GM, and Reinsdorf the owner kept turning to how they were going to pivot away from the Jordan era. And this is um really the most important sentence at this point, I think kinda sums this up. and maybe a mistake we could avoid in the future. They were so busy leaving It They failed to comprehend comprehend what they had when they had.

1:30:27 And that's just That's built into our nature. Old sayings like you don't know what you had till it's gone. Same thing. They were so busy leaving it. That's just another way of saying that. They were no they were so busy leaving it, they failed to comprehend what they had when they had. One sentence here. about Jordan talking about his teammates, uh their you know, the fact that

1:30:46 He was just relentless on them. He says Jordan presented a singlen of purpose. That was hard to dent. So let's go back to that screenshot I took. A guy that was totally focused on one thing. And one thing only. And this second that sentence made me think of uh

1:31:04 When I was reading Henry Singleton the book on Henry Singleton. on the founder of Teledyne. uh Arthur Rock, which is one of the world one one of the first venture capitalists, and an investor in Teledyne, Intel and Apple, I think. He said something about um Henry Singleton.

1:31:18 That made me listen to a sixty hour audio book because of one sentence. And I'll probably ch I'll probably read the physical book. And turn it into a future episode of Founders,'cause I think it's a lot to we can learn from. But uh Arthur Rock said describing singleton. He's like the gall.

1:31:34 'Cause he's talking about singleton obsessed he has a singleness of purpose like De Gaulle had. And making sure France was free. And in Teledine's case and making sure Teledyne's was successful, that that was Singleton's Main purpose.

1:31:46 single minded purpose of Jordan too. You know? Jordan presented a singleness of purpose that was hard to debt. Uh another quote here from Steve Kerr on Jordan that I thought was fantastic. That's what made him a badass. He wasn't just a talent.

1:32:00 It was his understanding of it all, the work ethic, the game itself, the strategy involved. He got it all. He understood it all. And that comes back to what we were talking about at the beginning, like the what I was talking to my friend with But like if he he identified what he was weak at and he worked to get better at it. He wanted to have a complete game. So there's a few chapters of this book. Remember it's a biography. It's not just about his playing career.

1:32:23 Talks about like what he did when he retired. He's put you know, he's a young guy. Young young guy retired now, wealthy beyond means, got Yeah. Beyond belief, rather. Uh they got a private jet. I I wanna give you a uh um in case you decide to read the book, which I highly, highly recommend you do.

1:32:39 I wanna give you an accurate like assessment of what you might what you're gonna run into, right? Um there's a lot of crazy stories. This dude was extreme like Extreme in all aspects of his life. And he essentially retires and just goes on this like global like parting spray.

1:32:54 I mean just all I'm just gonna read this there's like a story that happens that takes place in the book over like two or three pages. I'm just gonna read the one paragraph I wrote on it. His post playing schedule. Th there's a entire story about him having dinners and dinner and drink

1:33:09 at a strip club. With the founder of B E T who owns the Charlotte Hornets at the time or Charlotte podcast at the time. Charles Oakley, his friend and then former Teammate. And Mark Cuban.

1:33:19 And the story goes on. It's pretty wild. And they wind up what makes it even crazy is like they party until like three in the morning. I think they leave the club at like two thirty, fall asleep at three. And they meet back up at five forty five in the morning to play golf the next day. So I don't know if I think the only one that bailed was the founder of B T, but I think Mark Cuban showed up, uh Charles Oakley and Michael Jordan.

1:33:39 You know, they're out partying all night. See for two hours and they're up again. Like he has an relentless schedule. And now it's crazy, it w it wasn't dedicated to Basketball. It was dedicated to

1:33:51 you know, golf and gambling and girls and alcohol and just, you know, pure hedonistic debauchery. And so now this is the section um I mentioned earlier where they're talking about Kobe Bryant in two thousand eight. The quote uh Jordan has on my note is I couldn't have played the way I played if I didn't watch the guys prior to me. This is what I meant. He's got a giant ego, but not when it comes to this stuff. Comparisons of the two players, Kobe and Jordan. Routinely generated heated debates on the internet. Frankly, Jordan didn't see what the fuss was about.

1:34:20 After all, human behavior is mimetic. Humans copied and aped one another. Like every rock band that for decades had sought to be the Beatles or the Rolling Stones, who themselves had derived so much from the great American bluesmen of previous generations. So it's just a way to say everybody learns from somebody. Let's take the information that that was useful to people before us and push it w in down to future generations. We're doing a service to future generations of humans, right? Obviously his play had created a path for Bryant, Jordan observed.

1:34:47 But how many people lighted the path for me? That's the evolution of basketball, and anything else, by the way. There's no way I could have played the way I played if I didn't watch Dave Thompson and And the guys prior to me. There's no way Kobe could have played the way he played without watching me play.

1:35:03 You know that's the evolution of basketball. You cannot change that. And now we get to the port. He's a owner of the basketball team. Going through, you know, same struggle again.

1:35:16 And this is the part I'm gonna close and this is where I asked you to remember how how this uh this conversation between you and I started. And the reference they're about to make from Birmingham. is when he, um right after he quit basketball, he winds up playing I think like double A ball or something like that, the baseball. Like the minor leagues and he he was sent to Birmingham.

1:35:35 He did that to try to get closer to his father. Right. So the this whole story starts out with the main focuses. trying to prove to my father I could accomplish something. I don't have to just go in the house. I can actually be useful. I can be successful, right? And so he's got d there's stories where he's having conversations in his mind, going outside looking up at the stars.

1:35:54 In Alabama. And uh And having conversations with his dad that that was just Brutally murdered. And you see this like

1:36:02 Something I Yeah. to really cherish the relationships we have and realize the impact we have. That goes in both directions. Like if you're a Parent. How important you are to your kids.

1:36:13 cannot be overstated because you see Jordan as a grown man sitting down and and doing interviews for this documentary twenty five years after this happened to him. And there's still tears in his eyes. It's just a reminder to me, like I'm in that I have two kids myself. Like I need to make sure That I'm not only being the best person I can be but also

1:36:31 to to develop a relationship between them. And understand how devastating it is going to be for them. When I inevitably leave. So let's try to tie this all together, okay? During the dark nights in Birmingham, he had visited often with his departed father.

1:36:45 So it wasn't much of a leap. To figure out that on his bleakest nights in Charlotte. Jordan again likely sat alone in the darkness of his arena. Reviewing all that it unfolded. With James Jordan.

1:36:57 Telling the old man of his dashed expectations and embarrassments. It is also not hard to imagine on those nights. That Jordan's thoughts veered toward fantasy. Or at least visualization. Settling on the best thing that he could ever hope to find as an owner.

1:37:11 There's Shimmering for him in the distance. Is a grand season. A deep playoff run. And another championship.

1:37:19 In the midst of this final fantasy The buzzer sounds. It's almost time for tip off. But the arena is suddenly astir. Michael is nowhere to be seen.

1:37:30 He's in his office. In the battles of the arena. Sitting And talking with his dad. as he had his entire life.

1:37:38 The sun's eyes are bright. And wide. And starting to fill to the point. that he's fighting to see his old man through the blur. He suddenly struck to ask the enduring question.

1:37:50 What do you think of me now, Pops? How about all this? Do I still have to go back in the house? One can imagine Jordan pausing. Then realizing.

1:38:00 What his closest friends. And as many fans understood long time ago. that he doesn't have to ask anymore. His long raging debate Can be put away forever.

1:38:11 The answer is right there in front of them. In front of all of us. Something he can clearly see. And that is where I'll leave it. I hope you enjoyed it. I really did put a lot of time and effort into this.

1:38:26 Highly recommend you read the book. If you buy the book using the link that's in the show notes should be supporting the podcast at the same time. That is two hundred and twelve books down. One thousand ago. And I'll talk to you again soon.

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