Stop waiting for clarity. Unfreeze and act, with Accenture’s Julie Sweet

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1:20 Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. Today, AI is how we do work. So I don't see that as coercion in any way.

1:41 You have to work in the way we work in order to be successful here. When I was selected as the CEO, big reason was because I hadn't grown up here and I was willing to change things. And just ask the question like why can't we do this? That's Julie Sweet, CEO of Accenture. As AI disruption deepens and missiles, I wanted to talk to Julie about what she's hearing from her many clients and what advice she's giving.

2:19 Julie shares some on the ground stories, including how she personally stays looped in on the constant changes. She also talks about why using AI tools is now a requirement for promotion at Accenture, why she's doubling down on entry level hiring and more. It's a high-level leadership session with lots of practical insight. sights, so let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response. I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Julie Sweet, CEO and chair at global consulting firm Accenture. Julie, thanks for uh joining us. Thanks for having me, Bob.

2:59 So I Accenture works across A hundred and twenty countries, nine thousand clients, you're in every industry. You you kind of have this unique visibility into how organizations and leaders are navigating what is really a uh

3:14 A chaotic fast moving environment right now. Are there questions that you're particularly hearing right now? Well, Bob, it's interesting if I if I just start with Iran, right? Because you know, I'm getting actually a lot of questions, particularly Europe, where, you know, if you think about the potential energy crunch, uh, it's expected to hit harder in Europe than say, you know, the impact on the US. Everyone believes that this environment where, you know, energy is a risk, right?

3:45 It's just their new norm. And actually there's more optimism because if you can compare this to, you know 2022, right, when the Ukrainian war started, Europe is in a much better position from a resilience perspective. And it's a theme that we've been seeing for quite some time. You know, I got to the same questions even a couple months ago when we had, you know, sort of again, this whole issue around uh tariffs and imposing them is that CEOs are really just expecting

4:19 The unexpected. Like it's being built in. And that's why resilience is such a big theme. There's also The big questions are continuing on on AI, et cetera, but I wanted to address kind of the latest, uh, which is the impact of the Iran War. When I talk to CEOs right now, there's this sort of Sense that some of them. seem almost frozen, like they're they're waiting for clarity. And I know you've kind of encouraged the opposite, you know, don't take cover, take chances. Like how do you know when to act and when to wait?

4:52 The reality is as a CEO, you can't bake anything into your plan. Simply because It is so unknown. And That's where transparency really matters, is being able to say. Here's what we know, here's what we don't know. And then we're making our action plan with those things in mind. Right. And

5:14 So when you think about like when do you know to act. Or not act. In my view, you're always acting. It's intentional decisions. It's an action to say I because I don't know this, I can't alter my plants. One of the biggest trists right now is even less around the impact on the economy from what's going on on the Strait of Hormuz and energy. The bigger risk that many companies are talking about is do we have a cyber attack or attack on critical infrastructure that spins out of that? And for that.

5:47 There are actions you can take. Right, because we're helping clients look at their cyber resilience, right? This already been a big, big growth area for us because AI itself has increased the attack surface. But When you think about what the risks are, you can't really tell what's gonna happen on the energy front.

6:09 But knowing what do you know, what don't you know. And are there actions that can be taken. And then you act. And that's why right now, you know, there's a million different scenarios that are really bad for the global economy. But

6:25 They're just scenarios. Right now. Right. And so Trying to take actions, build it into you know your guidance and your plan. You know, could result in a lot worse impact on your company than simply understanding. whether or not those unknowables really prevent you from executing.

6:48 Alongside all this. geopolitical activity. There is also the technological shifts that we're experiencing. You made a a bold move last year where you merged a bunch of divisions into a single unit that you call reinvention services around AI. You're coming off your biggest ever quarter of revenue growth in new business. We see businesses that are you know, they're not tech businesses that sort of may not be getting the return on investment from their AI that they had expected or they had hoped or something like that. Like Does it does it work in some places and not others? Are there industries and functions that are more fit for AI than others? Or it's more about

7:29 Culture and commitment. Well, in some ways, Bob, it's gonna it's gonna be all of the same. So first of all, we have to remember the technology while changing fast is still really early. Yeah. And there's a lot of actual value that companies are doing before they get AI. Advanced AI has been kind of a catalyst. So let me give you an example. We work with a pharma company that takes drugs to market. And there's a process that once the drug is approved, you have lots and lots of regulatory stuff. So like what you write to explain it to the physician takes a long time.

8:07 We've said for a long time like you could actually cut that instead of it being months, it could be much shorter if you change the process to be standardized, if you keep your data in all one place. None of that requires Gen AI or advanced AI, but for most companies they haven't done that. Okay. So when we work with them because AI, j advanced AI was now The catalyst because that enables

8:31 If you have all the standardized processes, you to actually create the content faster, right? But the first piece always could have been done and had it been done. And so much of the work that we're doing is actually work that companies are saying, Okay, wait a minute, before I spend the money on the advanced AI, I should. clean up my processes that are fragmented, right? I should standardize things. I should not have as many people in middle management, like completely not because of agents, but why would I spend money to create an agent? To replace A manager that I shouldn't have in the first place. Is part of the hope that like

9:13 you know, the motivation for not having done it is oh the agent or AI will come in and do this for me. Like I can skip a skip a layer, save money and you know, like that's the silver bullet. And if I'm hearing you right, you're like, yeah, maybe not. Yeah. I mean I think there was this view at the beginning where companies thought because it's so easy, oh, are they just gonna do it all? Right. Do like I just asked this model, and this model is going to tell me how to re change change my company. A hundred percent that is not. You know, the models don't know how to change the company, right? And if you spend money. On your current structure, just replacing it, you're

9:52 You're at best going to get incremental value and the real value is actually reinvent everything you do. And that reinvention doesn't start just with the advanced AI, but a lot of really basic lessons where companies haven't had the will to fix it. I I tell with COs every day. Like in three years. You should be able to tell what did I use AI? To make the impossible possible. Because if the only thing you're doing is sort of incrementally improving how you're operating, right, you're not gonna get the biggest value. the biggest is in the core operations of a company, like things you can you're gonna be able to do with asset management and um and you know any industrial company, things you're gonna be able to do the g with the grid and the utilities.

10:40 The tech isn't completely there yet. It's still error prone. That's why everybody's tracing how long does the tech work, right? The the memory piece of it. And so where you get value today is anything with like customers, because those are short interactions. So the tech has to continue to improve and the strategy has to be I'm going to use this tech to do something I couldn't do before. There's this phrase A AI first. You know, you've described Accenture as an AI first company. It's something a lot of other players

11:13 Aspire to, but struggle to implement. Is it hard to be AI first? Like what does it mean? First of all, it is hard. And the reason why it's hard is it requires your leaders To understand what AI does. And this is so different than the digital era, right? Moving to the cloud and stuff. A lot of it was plumbing. So as a leader, you didn't have to understand it because it was being handled by the tech folks.

11:42 To be AI first, you have to say, what can AI actually do? So you have to understand things like, oh, wait a minute, it has to have a certain amount of memory to actually be able to do something. You have to understand what it's actually um able to be accurate about. And then Think about your business to say, where can I get a big enough return for using something this like in this cost. So it starts with leaders having to understand technology in a totally different way. So like when ChatGPT first emerged in You know, November 2022. The people who received the most training initially were actually my top 50 leaders because I knew that if they didn't understand the power, they would not be able to help us actually transform how we're delivering our services and

12:29 What our clients could use it for. So leader led learning is a huge unlock. And then AI first is asking yourself. Wait. Is this something that AI could do? It's something as simple as Bob, like The way I used to gather information, you know, there I call somebody and I say, Go do the research. Right. And now like I have an agent that can go like

12:54 Gather everything, synthesize it. It still needs to be read. It's not always accurate, by the way. But like that's that's a completely different way of thinking. And that's like a small example, but imagine if that's throughout everything you do with your business. You have to first ask the question, can we approach this totally differently? And for you, like how how did you train yourself to understand AI and I guess how do you stay caught up today? I'm spending time literally every day, right, learning

13:25 uh getting the latest updates. I'll read something, uh, this latest release and I'll ping my team. Let's talk about what this really means. What did we see in advance? A lot of the technology that's being released today is not being tested in enterprises first, which is a big shift. Stuff's being released before it's actually been tested at scale. In September we introduced A agentic AI training for every person at Accenture, whether you work in HR or you're you know a technologist and we'd It's an hour of computer-based training, it's two hours of in-person training, and then we have another two hours of a course that we created with Stanford.

14:06 Everybody needs to understand this wherever they are because it's going to become a bigger and bigger part of how we're operating as a company in addition to what we're selling. And because it's being uh a a lot of the tools are being introduced really at a consumer level before they're at an enterprise level. Does that mean you have folks who like You know, they're bringing the AI in with them, like they've tried it somewhere else and they're bringing it in, but you're not really sure of the credibility or the resilience that you want to have it be used internally.

14:37 Well no, I mean we're using it internally, but the thing is we understand where the technology is and where it should be used and where it's not ready to be used. What what you're pointing out something different. You know, a lot of people ask me about entry level jobs and why are they going, wait, we're hiring globally in all our major markets more entry level jobs this year than we did last year. What's the number one advantage? The number one advantage for the

15:04 College graduates were bringing in is that they are much more AI fluent than someone who's even been here two or three years. You're using it. In their education, they're using it every day. And and the idea that we hear about that sort of these entry level jobs are gonna be replaced by AI You kinda think that's

15:25 That's a myth. Well, what I would say is that It is very early. in this technology's evolution

15:34 And we can make choices. And so like at Accenture. We said look, entry level jobs are important economically. It is less expensive. It's how we actually create more experienced people.

15:47 Right, like sort of that whole path, if you don't have anybody entry level, how do you create the next generations? And it's also the right thing for our communities. We can't thrive if the community doesn't thrive. Right. And so we said We need to crack the code. on what are the changes we need to make as a company to continue to have entry level. So we've reconstituted jobs, right? We understand which tasks and jobs should be automated, can be replaced by agents. So then we've recreated new entry level jobs. With the skills that are not gonna be replaced. We've changed the way we train when we bring people in. So that we're giving them the skills that they may not yet have, change the way we onboard and train people. And then we're introducing things like better uh communication training because if someone can be more productive earlier, then that means they have less apprenticeship time, like working with clients. So we need to make sure they have better communication skills faster, but they're not learning over as long a period of apprenticeship. So

16:48 It's an intentional strategy, which is paying off for us economically. It's also the right thing to do. I love Julie's expression, leader led learning. You've got to understand all these changes at the top, and then also lean into young newcomers who are AI native. So what about the rest of the organization and what kind of responsibility does business have in society overall to prepare people for an AI future? We'll talk about that more after the break. Stay with us. The Wired Newsroom is known for award-winning reporting on how technology shapes our world.

17:31 On Wire's Uncanny Valley, we take that curiosity even further. Each week, journalists from Wired break down the biggest stories in tech while speaking directly with the people building, challenging, and reshaping the future. Is the AI boom sustainable? How do you protect your privacy in an age of constant surveillance? Uncanny Valley tackles the questions driving today's tech debates and lighting up your group chats.

17:53 Listen to new episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show because every Friday we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely for From Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find. Just search Rapid Response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there.

18:35 Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. Those are great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Chayubi. And on my podcast, Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone.

19:04 Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Before the break, Accenture CEO Julie Sweet talked about how war in Iran and AI disruption are rattling CEO's assumptions. Now we talk about why Accenture tracks AI use in determining promotions, what she calls today's biggest leadership essential, and why tension in the C-suite is a good thing. plus lessons she's learned from her cancer battle. Let's jump back in.

19:47 Accenture has committed Billions to re skilling employees. But those who don't get serious about reskilling with AI, we've seen these reports that they're they're gonna be shown the door. Um, that you you track your staff's use of AI tools when considering promotions. I How do you navigate this line between AI encouragement and what some might see as like coercion? Well I don't think it's

20:13 Coercion in any sense of the world. So think about this. Um when we introduce right, you went from a type I'm old enough, I remember. Like I I actually took a typewriting class, right? So I remember all this. Like no one would have said that requiring someone to use a computer is coercion, right? It's how the companies were gonna get work done. Today.

20:35 AI at Accenture is how we do work. And by the way. If you're coming in from as a college graduate right now, you don't even question that. College graduates, I've had clients tell me that It's the college graduates who come and say, What do you mean you're not using this? Because they want to be at the company that's actually using it. You have to work in the way we work.

20:55 In order to be successful here. Right. So I don't see that as coercion. In any way, віз are the new tools. a company we didn't go from zero to you won't get promoted like in a month. It's

21:10 Over a three year period of getting used to the technology, making sure it's user friendly, making sure we have the right workbench for people to use, and then saying Hey. This is extension how we operate. So if you want to get promoted You've got to do the things.

21:28 That we do in order To operate Accenture. But you know, there are communities of of folks who are who are anxious about what AI is gonna do to them and folks being left behind. I'm sure you have some clients where they're getting that that feedback There's been a lot of investment in the AI itself. There hasn't been as much investment.

21:49 By companies in the training. Companies have to do more. I also think it means governments have to do more because small and medium sized enterprises don't have the same means. You've said that Every leader needs to think of themselves as a as a reinventer. Reinvention requires a

22:07 A a a tolerance for failure? You know, and most large organizations are kind of wired to punish failure. How do you think about it navigate And encourage that kind of tolerance as to what failure is acceptable and good and learning and what failure is is not. Yeah, it's funny, Bob. I I was just talking with someone explaining to the CEO, I said, you have to remember that when somebody says there's a you know, eighty percent that we're gonna do it. That means there's a twenty percent risk that you're not. And the twenty percent is real.

22:41 Sometimes People forget that actually in everything we do at companies, there's always that risk of failure. And then they're shock when something doesn't go right. It's an important mindset to understand that risks are real and they might happen. The bigger challenge, Bob. It's not about risk. The or fear of failure.

23:03 The biggest issue with being a reinventor is letting go of how you've done things. So we have a leadership essential around we want everybody to check. Respectfully challenge. How we do things. What we recognized was that people didn't see that as their job, but Actually.

23:23 Every one of us should be willing to challenge is the way that I've done this still the right way. And that's really hard if it's your baby, if you created, if you've been doing it for 30 years. So I think it's less about being willing to fail and more about Having the humility To be willing to change. As we're talking about.

23:48 I'm I'm reminded that like only what Five percent of Fortune. Five hundred companies are run by women. I I know you're one of the the highest profile. I'm I'm worried about about how to even ask this. Like, is gender and business something you like talking about?

24:05 Or does the focus on you as a quote unquote woman leader Frustrate you. I am I I don't really I don't care in the sense of is it

24:17 A productive conversation. Right. So I actually have a lot of uh CEOs who will ask me, particularly in parts of the world where there aren't as many, you know, the US has got a lot more women leaders, for example, who want to have the conversation because they genuinely are trying to figure out How you know, how do I unlock that talent pool? You know, what are we what what what am I doing wrong? And and so that

24:45 Focus is a good focus because there are things that are barriers. You know, I sometimes there are places that I go in like Europe and Asia where it's like being in the U the US around the two thousands, right? When I was a young professional. Like'cause it's they're just in a very different space. So You know, now Like what I would tell you that at Accenture When I was selected as the CEO, first as the CEO of North America and then the CEO globally.

25:15 A big reason was because I hadn't grown up here and I was willing to change things because I wasn't wed to how we've done business. For the last 30 years, right? I wasn't wed to, well, we can't do that because so and so won't like it. I was willing to come in and and just ask the question, like, why can't we do this? Right. And That came from actually coming in from the outside. When you have diverse leadership teams, whether it's gender diversity, outside in diversity, you know, backgrounds, they produce more innovation. It is because you get all these different viewpoints

25:57 That you don't have if everybody feels the same. And the same can be gender, but it's as much. The bigger issue is often And they only worked in one place. And they're not Thinking about other

26:12 you know, other opportunities, other ways of doing things. And and these these differences that people bring. I mean that can that can bring conflict, but what you're saying is that conflict As long as it doesn't get personal is good, right? That it sort of helps to illuminate Options, ideas, and possibilities. Absolutely. And in fact The best COs in the world will tell you they don't want a team that always says yes.

26:39 They want a team where there's a healthy tension because At the level of the C suite Things are not just very clear cut. Right. There is Always a lot of like sort of ambiguity. I do not get to make a decision where I just have a hundred percent certainty. And so when you're working through that ambiguity, you want different perspectives. I learned that when I was a young lawyer. Uh

27:06 partner at a law firm. So I was a partner for at Crabassum War for 10 years. And My first year I had this. very difficult problem. And in fact, a client that was trying to get me fired because I wasn't giving them the answer they wanted. And I remember I brought together the most conservative partners and the most liberal partners because I felt like That was the only way to test whether my viewpoint and advice was right. Actuing the people that I thought if anybody is gonna disagree, it's gonna be these three. And I remember I brought nine partners together. And so when we went back and in

27:44 And actually stuck with our position. Like the head of the firm could feel so confident because it wasn't about being right or righteous, right? We'd really had that. difficult discussion with lots of viewpoints and then landed on our position. So I have a a little bit of a personal question. I know that last year, in the midst of all the leadership and business challenges of twenty twenty five, you were diagnosed for a second time with breast cancer.

28:13 uh dealing with health issues while trying to Project strength as a leader. I it's a l it's a lot of extra s stress. Or do the health issues put the work stress into perspective? But I never I never mind talking about it. And I I feel in part because I always use it as a plug to um Whether you're a man or a woman, there are certain cancer screenings that you should do and everyone should get them done because when cancer is caught early, you survive.

28:44 You know, and in my case, my first cancer was um in twenty fifteen and it it was caught by a mammogram. In this case, a decade later, it was caught by a self examination. And it's super important. And as you know, there's lots of like recommended cancer screenings and it's usually when people don't get them that they end up finding cancer too late. Uh so that's one point. Look, I

29:08 Like I'm one of those people like I would never say like wow, you should have cancer because you're gonna have this great insight into your life or something like there's gotta be better ways to have insight. And at the same time, I think You know, you find a silver line. Like my first time I had cancer, one of the things that I really honed in on was I didn't have regrets. I felt like I was living the life that I and making the right choices. And so over the last decade, I used to ask myself that. I used to say, if I found out I had cancer tomorrow, would I still feel like I didn't have regrets in terms of the way I was living my life. And sometimes it would cause me to change. I'd be like, you know what, I'm away too much. Right. Like I'm not feeling good about like that those choices.

29:53 I was hoping that was a theoretical question I was asking myself. Uh but you know, that didn't turn out to be right. And so when this happened, of course, like it had an impact, right? I couldn't travel, you know, et cetera, but I had a phenomenal team. And when you look at our results. You know, we had a great year in the year that I had cancer. I mean we Yeah, took massive market share. We're a seventy billion dollar company growing at seven percent. Uh

30:20 And The testimony is, I believe, in that You know, you build companies to be resilient and you have great teams. I still stand by though. I don't wish on anyone to learn those lessons that way.

30:34 Yeah. Twenty twenty six is great. Starting Cancer free and not having to manage any health issues. Well that is good news to hear. The environment in twenty twenty six feels So unpredictable, you know, politics, regulation, AI, war change it changes everywhere.

30:51 I'm curious whether you have a philosophat of businesses in setting the course. For the future. Look, I you know, we Um believed for a very long time that businesses have responsibilities to

31:07 There are customers. Their employees. They're investors or shareholders. Um And to their communities.

31:16 We spend a lot of our corporate citizenship on digitally reskilling because we know that Helps. uh communities Uh more people who are employed. And that's a direct link.

31:29 To You know, our success as a company. That's why with AI I do think it's Very important.

31:37 That we are being intentional around keeping entry level jobs, that we are being intentional about the new strategies that are needed for reskilling. In the world of AI, it's gonna take more and more of those deliberate strategies to ensure that AI does benefit for all. Too late. This was great. Thank you so much for doing it. Thank you. Julie's focus on deliberate strategies, on intentional actions, it's a steady stream in her advice from Iran response to AI. And when I think about it, there's probably an emotional benefit as well as the practical ones. When we feel ourselves overwhelmed or even panicked.

32:21 What can we do to get we grounded? As Julie says, we can identify what we know and also identify what we don't know, and then be transparent about both with others and with ourselves. I'll confess to having moments of dismay and anxiety, to feeling both frozen and frantic at the same time. In those instances, I try to remind myself about what I can and can't control. And then I build a plan for action. Doing something makes me feel better. And allows me to take agency over my life and my work.

32:55 Even when so much із out of my hands. I'm Bob Safian. Thanks for listening. Rapid response is a wait what original.

33:12 I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our producer is Alex Morris. Associate producer is Mashimaku Tonina. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastanelli. Our theme music is by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcast is Lytal Malad. For more, visit rapidresponesshow.com.

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