Transcript

The Devil Wears Prada workplace: Toxic or timeless?

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1:50 Wake up, sweetheart. Hey everyone, Bob here. Today we have a special super fun episode about the iconic movie The Devil Wears Prada. As a new sequel hits theaters, we're exploring the enduring impact and business lessons of the now 20-year-old original. I brought in two leaders with deep experience in publishing. fashion and entertainment, who dish with me about careers, ambition, the definition of success, and more, plus some personal stories about the magazine industry that you're not gonna want to miss. So let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian. And this

2:30 Із рапід респанс. Today We're gonna have twice the fun because I'm joined by two guests, Janice Minn, CEO of The Anchler and former editor of the Hollywood Reporter and Us Weekly, and Sarah Ball, editor in chief of the Wall Street Journal's WSJ magazine, formerly at GQ and Vanity Fair. Janice, Sarah. Great to have you uh both back on the show.

2:57 Thanks for having me. Thank you for having us. Yeah. So we're here to talk about the business and cultural lessons of the iconic film The Devil Wears Prada as the sequel hits theaters. The original film revolves around Andy, a nerdy, earnest, recent journalism school grad played by Anne Hathaway, who lands a job as an assistant to Miranda Priestley, The Devil in Question, played by Meryl Streep. Miranda's editor in chief of Fashine. Runway, which is a playoff of Vogue, and it's iconic leader, Anna Winter. I wanna start with um your personal relationships to the original movie. Sarah, when you joined Vanity Fair, you were joining

3:40 The same company that housed The devil. Anna Winter, you know, both Vanity Fair and Vogue are owned by Condinet. Did you relate to Anne Hathaway's character as a young newcomer to the company? I think that anybody who has been entry level at Condé Nast does relate to Andy, and certainly the original film. Um

4:02 was filmed in part. Those the turnstiles are the same that were actual at old four Times Square at Condana. So the literal process of getting into the building and your on your first day. is similar in real life as it was for Andy in the film. That was your life. That was that was my life. I mean, I I was a little bit different. I had been a reporter at a news magazine and joined Vanity Fair. Um In 2010, those earnest clips that she's bustling with. I had those. I definitely was that person. Um, but I had had a couple of years of professional experience before. So that gave me a little more of my sea legs. But certainly the, you know, looking around the Condonas cafeteria that is in the film and seeing.

4:43 These exotic creatures in all kinds of interpretations of work attire. That was a new, I had come from. A real newsroom environment of yelling each other's last name and kind of gruff deadline behavior and coming to Cande was was I experienced it through very similar eyes. So Janice, when when the Devil Us product came out, you were editor in chief of Us Weekly. So you were the devil. In your own newsroom when it came out. Yes. I was the devil. And I did wear Prada, I will say. Um but like You know, for anyone who worked in publishing at the time, there was a world of difference between working for Jan Wener um versus working at Condent Ast. And you know, Jan Wener ran a pretty down and dirty company, um, which would probably seem incredibly

5:32 flush t by today's standards. You could still go downstairs and there's like a line of black cars waiting there to take magazine people home. This is pre-Uber days, right? You had to you had to have some way to get to get a car home. Yeah. Yes. And obviously pre-publishing collapse. Um But I remember like at one point Jan trying to convert that into taking a cab and like Like like people like I mean, oh my God, you're gonna make us take cabs and you know, that was pretty shocking stuff. But you know, the the movie when it came out because we were working so inside the business, you kind of knew what was an exaggeration and what actually wasn't an exaggeration. It was an era of gatekeepers that

6:16 Kind of Like its last gasp was probably You know. that era you know, about to collapse maybe a few years after the movie came out. The original film brought in

6:28 Over three hundred million dollars at the box office globally on on a on a modest thirty five million dollar budget, Meryl Streep won a Golden Globe Award, got an Oscar nomination. Do you guys remember was the film like highly anticipated at the time or was it kind of a surprise? Обсіли the book was a huge best seller and had really saturated the culture. Um the film quite famously toned down a little bit of the maybe vitriol or the the devilness of the devil. And it did have a little bit of a

6:59 you know, glancing sympathy for what it's like to be inside the publishing industry and kind of gave the viewer that rubber necker sense of looking inside of these glamorous institutions as opposed to sort of more focus on the degradation of being the assistant. It Included more than excluded people who wanted to Be party to the fashion industry. The costumes, the montage of her coats, um, that still sort of endures in the culture, and that was like You know, Sex in the City kind of peaking in the dawn of a Sex in the City movie. So it was like the opulence of the costumes, I think also played into the vigness of that hit.

7:34 This was an era like, you know, in in the business sense of mid budget movies. You could do a thirty five million dollar movie and have an enormous hit that starred. All women and plus Stanley Tucci, right? That's like that seems almost like some fantastical dream today. I think to Sarah's point, Manhattan was it. At in that decade, right? Like it was the place to be. It seemed super exciting. A lot of this was fueled by sex in the city. And this dream of, you know, one day you're gonna come to New York and have a job in one of these very, very glamorous industries, and you will make it and you'll date. You know, Adrian Grenier from Entourage, which is another relic of that decade. Um

8:15 He did not make it back for the sequel. I think it was a fantasy when I think probably people who are starting in their careers. felt like there still were career fantasies, which is very different from I think how young people Are viewing the job market right now. So alongside the the storytelling elements, the Devil Wars Prada is a business movie about work and ambition and what it takes to succeed. So I want to take you through some key scenes and see what sort of lessons we can pull out of them. Um you mentioned Stanley Tucci's character, uh Nigel, the the first is the gird your loin scenes, right? When that's what that's what Nigel says right before Meryl Streep's character first enters her office and everyone's running around in a panic. All right, everyone, gird your loin.

9:01 Find it. The energy is fear, right? Miranda is the villain. Fear is a little bit um out of style as a leadership stance these days, where there's more sort of vuncular Tim Cook than like Brash Steve Jobs, although Donald Trump certainly leans into it. Is the message of this scene that like

9:22 Fear is Good. A motivator or capricious First of all, the phrase gird your loins has become like so many lines from this film have become their own little memes, their own little taglines. The day that um

9:37 Chloe Mall, who is a friend who has who also came up through Condé, got her now now position running American Vogue, and I texted her, congratulations. And she wrote back Gird Your Loins as a cheeky response. And I just think that's the level of sort of sitcom funny clam that that Gird Your Loins line has. She obviously meant it as a enormous joke. Um, I think that it It's meant to convey The personality driven enterprise that is runway under Miranda Priestley that you know it's it's one point of view. There's one captain of this ship and we're in service of that. And there's a sense of fear of going up You see the models and staffers diving out of the elevators if Miranda's stepping into the elevator. So yes, I think it's meant to evoke the kind of

10:20 Theatrics that went into um producing this thing that is one person's point of view. And there's so many reasons why that has fractured as a workable model for publishing and why the fear based workplace isn't um you know is no longer In vogue, so to speak, pun partially intended. It was a real testament to the cults of personality that used to form around editors. And um, and that was like a almost like a job requirement of being a well regarded editor. Like'cause people were hiring you to write a publication because Because they wanted

10:57 It to have your vision of the world imparted on it and You know, through that cult of personality around a um well regarded editor, you know, advertisers would come, you know, you could hold events that you could hire the right people. No one cares about editors anymore, right? Like nobody cares. And so I think if you fast forward to today, it's a little bit, you know founder vibes, right? Like you have cult of personality around founders around Silicon Valley. I mean, I presume when Elon Musk walks, you know, into the SpaceX campus in Texas, there's probably, you know, some people are probably sweating it out.

11:37 And I'm not sure if there are a lot of other industries that have that anymore. Leadership in general feels like there are some places where you have your Elon Musk, but At most places People feel a lot more comfortable.

11:53 Challenging what the boss is telling them and bosses sort of Maybe want to be liked a little bit more than they did then. Yeah. Well I mean Sarah worked in a company where it's commonplace where you have an employee meeting and it's recorded. And then leaked out to the media. I mean, the these are unthinkable things from that era, right? And you know, as part of that, I think, as illustrated by the first Devil Wars Prada. Like I think people who worked in certain jobs swallowed a lot of humiliation along the way in order to kind of toe the line. Mm.

12:26 Right, there's so many more mechanisms for accountability. We see now stories about toxic work environments. They're quickly sort of held accountable and dissected with long investigations. There's leaking of meetings or screen shopping slacks. Employees obviously rejecting anything that is goes into a Toxic, abrasive environment, and rightfully so.

12:48 I was noticing re watching the movie, like the body shaming in the movie isn't subtle. I mean they call Andy the you know the smart fat girl. Like that language might get you canceled today, right? Beyond cancel. I I mean I have friends who have worked And vogue, right? And They have said to me they've never been so hungry in their life, right? I mean, that was that was certainly, I think, a part not just of vogue, but of fashion culture. And um and Uh an expectation, the iconic people of fashion, you know, Carolyn Bassett or Kate Moss.

13:24 These were people who's you know, one of their, you know, quote unquote best qualities was being, you know This wafish thin real thin woman. Is is the vibe about that different in the fashion industry? Now, Sarah?

13:39 shortly after the film came out, there was this enormous um you know, surge of kind of a reckoning, the body positivity movement. We're gonna move towards size inclusivity. Then there have been challenges with that. And again, holding both brands and Publications to account about Size diversity. Um, and you've seen all of many fashion publications move through that time. And then now we're sort of in the GLP one. You know, how GLP wands have influenced that conversation is really interesting and still happening in Lifetime. Obviously, there is the it the fashion industry being built on the modeling industry, which is very still centered around aesthetics and still you see a lot of.

14:18 You know, not only Slim, but also unusually like Six three women who are very trim from around the world coming down runways. I think the conversation has Become more self aware around representation and is a consideration for.

14:33 фашизм and фаши фотограф Um, and it is not as um certainly as s the kind of abusive overtones of the first film. You you do see a huge TikTok um Trend, I'm sure you guys have seen this of models from the two thousands talking about the ways they were sent home from shoots and just drop shipped back home because they couldn't be seen and they needed to sort of hide until they were trimmer. This goes to again the Victoria's Secret runway show being enormously popular and the sort of workouts to get slim for Victoria's Secret, all of that ops culture.

15:07 Um now looks very retro. But as to whether we've grown completely grown out of it, I think no. With again, I just think it's become more about the sort of Ozempic factor and um what is in a s actively in debate. I think the fact that we even have the conversation at all is huge progress. I think, you know, infamously, there was that sixty minutes interview with Anna Winter. I believe it was in that decade, where she she was asked a question about I think overweight people, fat people might have been the term that was used. And she said something disparaging. And that Was

15:44 completely fine. Like and that was completely acceptable in that era. And so if today if you had that sort of interview that editor, that boss would have been coached in a million different ways, would have been so prep, every harsh corner would have been sanded down, or that phrase would have never been said. No, it's the famous the part that's the beginning when you're introduced to Meryl and she's like Is there no tall, slim paratrooper in the army that I can feature? It's not just the fashion coverage, it's also all the that they were there were They were sort of upholding an aesthetic standard across the news, which is also just sort of

16:24 you know, mind blowing to think about. Let me go to another another scene from the film. One of the the next key scene for me is the is what I call the the cerulean scene. This is where Miranda basically You know, mops the floor with Andy. She breaks down how this sort of frumpy blue sweater that Andy is wearing demonstrates the power and the intellect and the the influence of the fashion business. It's just this like shake you up moment. It's sort of comical how you think that you've made a choice that exempt you from the fashion industry when in fact You're wearing a sweater that was selected for you by the people in this room. Looking back on this now, like what what does this scene say to you guys?

17:07 This scene is one of the um It's a real truth of this film that there was Festigial pockets exists. A

17:19 Top down dictation of certain taste codes that then Go through the fashion ecosystem, which is a global business, I believe. is like a an explanatory didactic monologue to explain exactly why Vogue, why there wasn't just arbitrary self-decreed power, but the kind of power in Miranda's mind that she's giving herself is that she is leading not just this team of taste makers, but she's leading a global industry. And there really was truth to some of that at the time, and there remains there remain aspects of the industry for which This is true and the symbiotic relationship between

17:56 editorial fashion shoots and what's featured in them, and advertising fashion shoots, and what products are popularized among people. And this like this this idea that that fashes down from a handful of taste makers. I mean, is that still true in a in a social media world? It's over. This is all bottom up now, right? And this is where gatekeepers are struggling. Gatekeeper sit on top of kind of, you know, I don't want to say a diminishing group of people, but they're sitting on top of a audience that likes the idea of curation in what they're receiving, whereas, you know, anyone Gen Z and younger is not waiting for me or Sarah to tell them how to think or what to feel. Um or what to buy.

18:41 The taste makers are different. They're they still exist in the ecosystem and producing this handbag. I'm seeding it to some influencers. People are seeing them on the arms of influencers. they are then creating that demand and want. It's no longer me walking down the street with a bag. Or spot.

18:59 Sarah, I mean, wouldn't an example of this be, and you can correct me if I got this wrong, but like even like vintage coach bags, which were not a thing that any editor put forth that was not, you know, in the pages of Vogue or Harper's Bazaar and then suddenly, you know, everyone wants a vintage coach bag. A complete bottom up. I think where the where where it's fascinating is to see then You know coach and steward vapors interpret some of that enthusiasm and speak to that Gen Z customer and realize, wow, there's real enthusiasm here and we're gonna create

19:30 designs that speak to a young customer, like you kind of watch that happen, but it is exactly to Janice's point, it's it is bottom up. And it this started not long after the film came out at some of these publications putting moving past the model cover into the celebrity cover and then moving past the celebrity cover into the Kate Upton, Kim Kardashian, Lauren Sanchos Bezos, like into this. Figment of popular culture cover that isn't really particularly a an actor, actress, director, um, slim female paratrooper. Elected official that represents the kind of The the people have spoken and they are dying to see.

20:08 Gird your loins and grab your blue sweathers. We're only getting started. Still to come? The Mat Gala? Paris Fashion Week, and what Andy really learns by the end of the movie. We'll be right back. Mm.

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21:34 I hope to see you there. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There can be two types of companies. Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered.

21:51 I'm Rana El Calyubi. And on my podcast, Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Before the break, Janice Smith of the Ankler and Sarah Ball of WSJ magazine dished about enduring lessons from The Devil Wears Prada and what's changed since the film came out. Now we talk about the Met Gala scene from the movie, Paris Fashion Week, and what the impact of the sequel might be.

22:39 Let's jump back in. I wanna go deeper into like the the boss assistant relationship in the movie. You know, once once Andy embraces the job and decides to give it her all, her boundaries fall, right? She takes calls from Miranda at all hours, she misses her boyfriend's birthday. She takes on the impossible, whether it's, you know, a flight home and a hurricane or an unpublished Harry Potter manuscript. It's like this vibe there that you you sort of in the movie that you start out by paying your dues, right? It's sort of this. traditional trade off of, you know Y you you have to give up your life to advance and to learn.

23:16 That need that message for new generations seems like maybe it's Shifting a little bit. Well, I think it's that w line you get when you interview someone where they'll say You know, I really want I'm l life work balance is really important to me. And that's fine. I like Go for it. And I I think that

23:36 Is an different expectation of people. Of work that people would have had in two thousand six. Um when you were trying to make it in let's say the publishing industry. That's a very different expectation. I agree with that. There's a kind of

23:52 Boundaries around the workday. At the same time you're still responding out of hours. I think that The the way that it's expressed at that era and that time was that the only way to show passion and interest and the way to box out all of these competitors and these. Crowded fields is to be at my desk twenty four seven. And if not, we're gonna find another Another disposable person to put at the desk twenty four seven. I think right. Cause there are gonna be a thousand grinders who who would take your spot in a second. Right.

24:20 This is a smaller industry than it used to be. These publishing teams are smaller and and the the basement on entry level work has risen and skill set. And so there isn't just this all you have to be is a body sitting there, answering the phone and running around with stuff. I think that you're asking this person to be more skilled. And with with that comes more of the shape of a day that follows, you know, the the the shape of a professional's day. The kind of um work burden that Andy is under, which in some ways people today would be even more aghast at. Like, no, I'm not I'm not gonna work that way. But at the same time, like that job wouldn't even exist. Right. No. I mean I you certainly could not justify in your organization hiring someone who will, you know, pick cranberries out of your salad or go you be responsible for getting you coffee all day. But

25:08 Yeah, the dog. Right. That just just that just wouldn't not possibly happen. Um, you know, I had I had Uh, worked for an editor once before I became an editor in chief who, you know, had the assistant run out her stool sample to the doctor, right? And like that like that was sort of I mean, everyone in the office was aghast, but you certainly weren't gonna say a thing about it. You were almost like the personal handmaiden. to the editor if you were in that job, whether you were male or female, and you were at the beck and call. At all times. And that was in a weird way like the expectation of the job. And I think in the decade after. Um after Devil Wars Prada, like

25:47 HR teams has become very invested in um, you know, assistants can't do your personal work for you, they can't plan your kids'. Birthday party. You know, you can't have them go pick up your dry cleaning. And I think those boundaries were not in effect until. Um there was enough ground swell and the culture shifted to, you know, put those into effect. I mean this this uh handmade phrasing that you have, if you think about it in professional terms, it makes me think about the Met Gala scene in in the movie. I mean the Metgala itself is, if anything, a bigger deal. today culturally, but there Andy's there with Miranda and she she's whispering this critical information about a guest into Miranda's ear. It's Ambassador Franklin.

26:29 And that's the woman that he left his wife for, Rebecca. I've heard business folks reference this scene, you know, as like this, oh, is this a superpower that AI could deliver to me one day? Right. Well, I think you're so you're so important. You don't need to know who any of the little people are. You are the most important. Everyone knows who you are. They don't need you don't need to know who they are, but You know, the handmaiden certainly better know who every single one of those people

26:56 Uh is and better not screw it up. That's a one of the more legitimate business uses in that she's there You show her advantage suddenly professionally by knowing the world, getting to know the players, knowing this is an important donor, knowing this is an important executive. It's surprised that they're here. And kind of that to me is her as chief of staff. Which is a sort of modern contempt more contemporary version, when she's got the surfboards for spring break and knocking over the crowd. I think that feels like the archaic version. But you think about the vanity f where I was the Vanity Fair can party that was such a big deal and it lives on Dario Amode of Anthropic, he's gonna need somebody whispering in the who this Hollywood crowd is.

27:35 that still I think is alive active thing, which are these scenes of power, these kind of publishing could create these enclaves. So the the climax of the movie comes at Paris Fashion Week. There there's so much business gravitas attributed to that moment. Although I I have had some guests on the show argue that Fashion Week

27:55 isn't what it used to be What does the movie's depiction of fashion week say about the industry then and the industry now? The makeover of Fashion. Doesn't resemble what it used to. There's still it's still quite a big scene. It still is the case that you go to a show in Milan and Paris. It is a red carpet. It is Hordes of people on stadiums taking photos. It's going through a tunnel. It's fearing you're gonna be trampled in a stampede. It is glamorous. There is a front row. There are celebrities. There are flashbulbs going off. It is like an awards show. Like a it's just

28:28 Sort of it is a very it's certainly not Oh, it's just Foddest and retiring now. It's just No. If anything, these luxury brands have so much invested in a luxury turnaround that they've become even more circusy. The front row is filled with influencers. It's filled with a new level of celebrity and editors are There, but there may be a Shunt it over into more of a corner so that these celebrities can have front rows. Well, let's can we talk about Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez showing up. to fashion week and and

29:00 Like You know, you're Whatever top three wealthiest people in the world. And this is where you're choosing to spend your time. And that reveals the power of Fashion Week. You know, you want to go where the flashbulbs are, right? They are not subtle people. Um used to be it would be upper east side, you know, socialites who would come fly into Paris and Um, now it's tech oligarchs and their spouses. Part of where we are in culture where everyone's looking in their own life for tent pole moments.

29:31 That everything is gone IRL. When you could stream fashion shows, people are like, ah, no one's gonna go anywhere. But in fact, the opposite has occurred that something like the social clout you have from being there, from being in the room, from being photographed is still irreplaceable. The security is so heightened because there are people who crash who can copy a QR code who can try to hack their way in. So now it is like You know, it is incredibly intense to get in. Mark Zuckerberg and Priscilla Chan were also at their first kind of front row show together this year. They were in Um they were at Prada. So it is

30:04 What what's different is an editor An editor in chief is not making that connection. You know, the brand and the tech company are Um, often either in business together occasionally or there They're directly in contact. And I think you what you're seeing is those publications don't need to marry those two industries together in the same way as in the film, the kind of the list.

30:24 You know, the sense that it's all being held together by a publication is not true. At the end of the movie, Andy decides that, you know, to stay true to herself She has to move on, but she also appreciates Miranda kind of unexpectedly. And and I I I wonder what you what you feel about this takeaway,'cause part of it it's like Dealing with the slings and arrows of a tough workplace is valuable learning. She like she got something out of it, but ultimately.

30:52 We should all follow our soul, and that means not being seduced by money and power. Publishing was an amazing place for women, right? It was like one of the first industries where you saw women rise to the top. And it in I think in the decades since we've seen how hard that actually is for women. So publishing was like this rarefied world where women held the power. That just doesn't really exist in another industry right now. So I think that in some ways Andy is Reflecting her begrudging respect, or not even begrudging her respect for how hard this woman. Thought and

31:27 fought her way to the top and stayed there. That is an extremely hard thing to do. I think anyone who has had a decades long career in journalism should get a medal. It is a really hard thing to do. And um so uh I think that that end also reflects that Andy had the choice to go follow her heart and do something she wanted. I don't think people in journalism today always have that choice. It's a little bit about Who'll pay me? Who'll pay me now? Is this a way station or is it a destination? And I'm glad I'm still making money in this field. So I I think that has completely shifted. And and without giving anything away, it's in the reviews that just came out for Devil Wars Prada too. You see how that works out for Andy and it doesn't work out well.

32:10 Certainly her leaving for local news, like the the high village voice that they show, this like utopian or like that that heartbreakingly that does not exist. But I think that you do you do feel at the end that she developed real skills, resilience and friction and having to learn learning how to spell gabbana and all these things. Have made her stronger and more sophisticated professionally. And that's where it became not just a story about fashion, but really a story about coming to New York, about getting off, stepping off the bus into New York, gonna make my way. I'm gonna be knocked down a thousand times, but I'm gonna get up. And I think that that to me is a very hopeful message that I do hope isn't fully eroded by the kind of Dower outlook right now for young people entering the workforce. I haven't seen the sequel, as I said. The plot involves Andy coming back to Runway to help manage Miranda's reputation online, which is a very 2026 scenario in some ways, right? Tables turn. Well, also say, like this is in the reviews today, so I'm not spoiling anything. There's a scene where um

33:12 Miranda Priestley's being led onto an airplane and she passes through business class and is seated in coach. I mean these, you know, it is very like on the nose about publishing in 2026. And so I think insiders will be will find that entertaining. Um, and you know, I think everyone probably has like a comp in their own work life that would make it resonate too. Sarah, is is the fashion excited by the timing of the sequel? Like do the does the fashion industry want this? Oh yeah. I think that there's so much excitement for the film among the fashion industry, and I think the timing of it. with the Met Gala and all of it all at once makes people sort of extra aware of it. It feels it's very referential. A lot has been written about this. There's not the same Vogue holding film at arm's length. There's a total embrace of it. Miranda Priestley on the cover, excuse me, Meryl Streep. Well Miranda Priestley on the cover.

34:06 With Anna Winter events in support of the film. Um, the film's had this huge global press tour. People are dressing up, they're talking about going dressed up. It's intergenerational, as we know, which I think hits on that kind of event movie going that has been powerful. And Sarah, am I correct? Like I just see a ton of headlines about all the designers is like a revolving door at all the fashion, all the big fashion houses. And so I would have to Think that anything that makes fashion on a big screen is great for fashion right now. Yes, it's like a fan film. Again, I will see where the plot goes and how many overstuffed celebrity cameos are in there and like how a lot more durable or climbsy we feel the sort of dramatic acts of it are, but I do think that um it's kind of that. Feel sweep everybody up.

34:54 And Janice, from a from an entertainment industry perspective, like you know, Hollywood loves a reboot, obviously, but like Okay. Why this sequel now, twenty years later? Well, I think you got the talent to say yes for starters, right? Um, also, I think there is like a really current workplace discussion. That

35:14 You can have Through The lens of this movie now. You know, oh my God, AI, no one can get a job. Um, you know LA's too expensive, New York's too expensive. I mean there's just

35:25 And there isn't, of course, an affordable affordable housing plot line also in the movie. So it was I think there enough has changed in the world that it gave them like a narrative arc. Um and And also it gave you enough time to miss it. I I you know, I think like every time a fast and furious comes out, like, did you miss it? Um so I I think the timing's great. I, you know, it's worth noting that. 20th Century Fox, the studio who first did this movie, you know, kind of no longer ex exists. It got bought by Disney. So it's in in a little way is like um. Also a call back to the kinds of movies that Fox used to make on their own, pre-franchise movies. Yeah, well, I was wondering whether there's any like this is prompting any reflection in Hollywood about sort of the success of the original movie and things we should do differently. No, absolutely not. No reflections. There will be no reflection if it if this succeeds in a big way. There will be nothing about female audience. It'll be like yet another aberration of females coming to movies. Nothing.

36:27 Don't don't don't give. this industry any credit. Try f a little rapid fire round if we can. Uh so Is New York still where you want to move to make it in fashion publishing media? I think yes. I'm gonna go yes on that one.

36:43 Is it as easy as easy as it was then and it wasn't considered easy then? No. I think it's uh now LA, San Francisco, New York. All right. Um do you do either of you have anything you like want to bring back from two thousand six? I just miss the cultural impact of magazines, right? And I think, you know, in all the kind of reckonings that we've been through, maybe it wasn't

37:07 Cultural for Everybody, right? But it certainly was like agenda setting and Um, and this idea of a monoculture, right? That you could, I mean, I was doing Us Weekly. There was no nothing more monoculture than Us Weekly, that everyone kind of knew the same stars, you could talk about them in the same way, everyone shared a conversation. I missed that part. I think that one thing I missed. That again is um

37:32 It's it's just not uh not a current facet of maybe today's workplaces. You know, a ton of investment in some of these publishing companies in their own culture, in sort of really nice workplace and nice things for people, and we're gonna do nice things together and believe that fomenting culture inside the walls is gonna help us produce. the work. I always think about how some of these magazines felt like the magazine was a byproduct, but what was actually the the work creation was creating the culture where we could come up with the

38:04 weirdest, most expensive and hard to do ideas. So I think all of that still exists. It's just a leaner, a leaner environment. So you're not thinking, well, what if we shut down Madison Avenue and we brought in a parade and we flew a drone over and then we, you know, it's a Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Yes, exactly. Doesn't matter what it costs. We'll worry about that later. Watching this movie, w did either of you reflect on a boss in your career who gave you a Miranda Vives, Miranda energy. Oh yeah. I won't name names. You're still afraid of them, huh? I am not no, I disdain them completely. Um No. When you have a terrible boss.

38:41 You do learn, I think in that final Andy scene kind of way, you're like, okay, like they made me a better version of, you know, an employee myself. But you also learn like this is not how I want to be. I will not conduct myself this way. Like this is like the kind of, you know, and I think when, you know, when I uh was An editor chief of us weekly. And you know, later Hollywood Reporter like, you don't wanna become the caricature of what A movie might tell you that job is. Mm.

39:09 Right, what's conferred on you by dint of that title. I never had a specifically Miranda figure in that. way, but I do think that the editors in chief that I worked for, I'm thinking of like four different editors in chief, they did have a sense of celebrity. It didn't feel like you were necessarily sitting in the room with a a peer colleague. I felt like

39:29 You know, this is somebody who is Who's Their tailor their tailoring is whisked in and they're at their it's like I have a four room office and they have, you know, a a dress. Three assistants. Yeah, assistants and So I think that that like legend status, I I do think about a lot. I think it it that authority and the creation of authority and bearing and the role that inhabiting the role ful in that creation of authority. I think I do think about that a lot.

39:58 Part of what uh leadership sometimes is is uh illusion. Right. And what do you what do you do to create that illusion? Yeah. Yeah. One thing we haven't touched on that's one of the big discussion f to me funniest and most interesting discussion points. Um out of this film is just the role that your partner supporting or not supporting your career has in the career that you pursue. Obviously, um, Adrian Grenier in this film, um, as the sh the rising chef feels, you know, that Andy is focusing way too much time on her career and and maybe the rebuttal at the end is that.

40:31 They're each going to go their separate ways. It has that kind of la land feel of two ambitious people. Um, but so much interesting discussion. The the character of Nate, he he's had a reputational rise and fall over the years as tastes have changed about kind of what your partner should think about a career that's all consuming. Um, I think that. You know, it it Yeah. Has I think it's landed on a place of find the person.

40:56 That supports your dream. Whatever that dream is, even if that dream is is obsessive, right? It doesn't guilt you about it, maybe. Yeah. I mean, we're like we're in the era of trad wives, right? And like where certain politicians will say your job as a woman is to stay home and support your husband, right? And Um and That kind of message would have been impossible to have gained traction, I think, in the era of Devil Wars Prada One. And it it was very much, I would say, career first. Um

41:24 In a way that was I hate to say maybe unique to a generation and That has sort of uh ebbed and flowed since then. So last question. Should we expect uh Devil Wear's Prada three?

41:37 Let's look at the numbers on Monday. Yeah. Well, Janice, Sarah, thanks so much for doing it. It's great to bounce all these things around with you. Thank you for having us. So great to spend time with you. So I had my version of a Miranda Priestley experience early in my career. I worked for a notorious bully in the magazine industry named Steve Brill at a trade magazine called The American Lawyer. The job was hardly glamorous, but I did learn a ton from him.

42:06 Both stuff I wanted to emulate and stuff that I pledged to never do. The thing about career experiences like movies is that our takeaways often depend on us. No matter how hard we work, the most important task is often reflection. What do we prioritize on the job and in life? What can we control? And what do we just have to roll with? You don't have to be a devil or work for a devil to feel the pressure of today's uncertain times, but you do have to get comfortable being uncomfortable. To keep experimenting and learning. Because like fashion itself.

42:41 Nothing stands still. I'm Bob Safian. Thanks for listening. Rapid response is a wait what original. I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our producer is Alex Morris. Associate producer is Mashimaku Tonina.

43:07 Mixing and Mastering by Brian Pugh. Our theme music is by Ryan Holliday. Our head of podcasts is Lital Malad. For more, visit rapidresponesshow.com.