#333 Red Bull's Billionaire Maniac Founder: Dietrich Mateschitz

0:00 Okay, so I want to jump right into this episode, but I have two very special announcements to make. I'll do so at the end. So make sure that you stick around. to the end of this podcast. I'll give you a sneak peek now. One has to do With the first ever in person founders conference that is happening in sixty days. I'll tell you why I'm doing it. what it is and how you can attend.

0:19 After this incredible story. Of the Red Bull Founder. I'll see you on the other side. Dietrich Matishitz is one of the most successful entrepreneurs of our age. A man who single handedly changed the landscape of the beverage industry by creating not just a new brand

0:34 But a whole new category. The energy drink. He is the visionary who brought the world Red Bull. In return for his innovation, the world has made him very very rich over the last few years he was taking anywhere from five hundred million to eight hundred million a year.

0:50 in annual dividends. And he had a net worth somewhere between twenty and thirty billion dollars. Matchets also runs an efficient enterprise. In 2010, Red Bull employed just seven thousand seven hundred and fifty eight people. Which works out to more than six hundred and sixty seven thousand in revenue per person. This success is the realization of a business plan.

1:11 that issues conventional advertising in favor of marketing through its own events. Shows, sports teams, and publications. Red Bull has produced its own TV programs, films, magazines, websites, and a steady diet. Of videos online featuring snowboarders, rally cars, surfers. Cliff divers, and concerts, and a guy jumping from space.

1:32 Matches cause the multimedia assault. One of the most important line extensions so far. As a major content provider, it is our goal to communicate and distribute The world of Red Bull in all major media segments from TV to print. To new media.

1:49 Red Bull also owns four soccer teams. They have a NASCAR team and two Formula One Racing Teams. He finances the annual two hundred million dollar cost of his F one teams out of the company's healthy operating income. And this is what he said about that. In literal financial terms, our sports teams are not yet profitable. But in value terms they are. The total editorial media value plus the media assets created around the teams.

2:15 That's such a good insight. Plus the media assets created around the teams are superior. To pure advertising expenditures. He then launches into a spiel that he's been delivering for the past twenty five years. He explains

2:28 That Red Bull is not just a drink. Instead, it's a philosophy. One seemingly derived from his own outlook on life. And a functional product. Used to improve strength and performance and to revitalize.

2:40 The body and mind. Those are his words. He is also quite serious, prone to beginning sentences with the phrase it is a must. As in it is a must. To believe in one's product. If this was just a marketing gimmick, it would never work.

2:54 And it is something that he believed on because he worked on Red Bull. for over the last forty years of his life. He just recently passed away. That's why I want to do this episode now. This is a little bit about the beginnings of how he discovered this idea. He was on a chance trip to Thailand in nineteen eighty two. Which would prove to be a turning point in his life. He was curious to know what attracted the locals there to an uncarbonated tonic

3:15 Which they called A word in Thai I'm not even gonna try to pronounce, which literally translates to Red Bull. He tried some of this himself. And found that it instantly cured his jet lag. Not long after that, he was sitting at the bar at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel in Hong Kong and he was reading a magazine. In the magazine it mentioned that the top corporate taxpayer in Japan that year

3:34 was the maker of such tonics suddenly The idea hit him. He would sell that stuff in the West. He then approached a Thai businessman who was selling the tonic in Southeast Asia and suggested that the two introduce the drink to the rest of the world. with one crucial change, it would be carbonated. Uh, this is gonna be his partners.

3:52 His last name, I'm gonna guess is U Vidha. And he liked the idea and so the two agreed to invest five hundred thousand dollars apiece to establish a forty nine forty nine partnership with the remaining two percent going to Uvidaha's son. So when I said earlier that he was paying

4:10 dividends, you know, somewhere between five hundred and eight hundred million to himself a year. And his net worth was, you know, somewhere between twenty and thirty. uh billion dollars. That is from this forty nine percent that he owned of Red Bull. In addition to adding carbonation, he also Positioned it differently. This would allow for his product positioning master stroke. He would sell Red Bull as an ultra premium drink in a category all of its own.

4:32 At two dollars a can, it was far and away the most expensive carbonated drink on the shelves. This is what he said about that. If we only had a fifteen percent price premium We'd merely be a premium brand among soft drinks. And not a different category altogether. At this point most histories of Red Bull tend to depart

4:49 from Metachits and focus on Red Bull itself, which is exactly How he wants it. A curious hybrid of a mogul Matashitz has a zest for life. That rivals Richard Branson's, but his obsession with controlling information puts him closer to Steve Jobs. Like

5:06 The Apple founder Manachits. Pulls the strings behind a consumer cult. And cult. rely on message control and cults rely on message control.

5:18 Matashitz is notoriously secretive. He is close to some of Austria's most prominent people. This part made me laugh. He is close to some of Austria's most prominent people. Though Matashit says he doesn't place a premium on collecting friends or socializing. I don't believe in fifty friends.

5:33 I believe in a smaller number. Nor do I care about society events. It is the most useless use of time. When I go out when I go out from time to time, it's just to convince myself Then I'm not missing out on a lot.

5:47 And so the little that he does speak, he says very interesting things. This is another thing that I thought was very interesting. The success of Red Bull defies logic in one important regard. It doesn't taste very good. Mash? Matashit says he doesn't care about the taste issue then.

6:01 He didn't care about the taste issue then and he doesn't care about it now. This is what he says. It's not just another flavored sugar water differentiated by color or taste or flavor. It is an efficiency product. I'm talking about improving endurance. Concentration.

6:14 Reaction time, speed. V Vigilance. An emotional status Taste is of no importance. Whatsoever.

6:22 That part actually shocked me. And Red Bull, I mean, it i I wouldn't say it like tastes great, but doesn't it it certainly doesn't taste bad. I think maybe the the author uh was exaggerating a little bit here. Mashus has proved his marketing genius, especially in the era that's another funny thing. Especially in the era of crisis management, with his early decision to foster rumors about Red Bull's content. Instead of trying to squash them, I'm gonna go into a lot more detail. uh later on about this, but I wanna give you an overview. This is what I'm trying to do. I'm just gonna give you an overview of

6:51 who he was and ha his approach to company building, which I found Fascinating, by the way. I've been texting friends nonstop. I was like, I cannot believe all this stuff. This is an example of that. So he he again, he wants to foster rumors. That is just free. We're gonna go into you know Christian Dior's comment on this, which I just covered a few weeks ago. You're just like, oh, this is just free propaganda. You need to don't try to squash them, foster them. And so the in the early days of Red Bull you have all this

7:14 Like why is Red Bull so effective? Why is it giving me so much energy? Why is it letting me to party all all night? 'Cause that was uh like it really spread in clubs to begin with. And so Uh, he says uh his early decision to foster rumors about Red Bull's content instead of trying to squaw to quash them. Tails begin to circulate that taurine, which is one of the main ingredients for Red Bull. Was derived from bull testicles.

7:34 Or even that it was bull semen. Oh. The company let the gossip travel unchecked. and even set up a page devoted to the rumors on its website. He has an incredible, incredible quote about this. He says the most dangerous thing For a brand

7:49 Branded product. is low interest. That reminds me of Edwin Lan. Founder of Polaroid. Steve Jobs Hero and the patron saint of founders podcast. He said something that was fascinating.

8:00 And he says Uh the the test of invention is the power of an inventor. To push your invention through. Not in the face of staunch opposition, which most people think, right? But staunch indifference.

8:13 Edwin Lan, like Master Sist, would tell you that indifference is your enemy. If they're talking about your product, that is a good thing, even if they think that it's coming from Yeah. The secret ingredient is is bull testicles. Was this all by design? Did he really anticipate that a combination of rumors and public outcry would play such a big part in driving early sales? Even think about that. I'm gonna pause real quick. I was just like

8:34 Think about if you said, Okay, well, uh, you know, the the I have a new drink and there's like some caffeine in it, some sugar. You know, maybe some B twelve or some other vitamins. I've already forgotten what he said. But if somebody whispers like, Hey, there's this new energy drink and the energy comes from bull testicles Even if uh one, I wouldn't drink it because of that.

8:52 But I won't forget it. That's actually a really powerful insight that he ha that he had there. Uh so kids uh was it all by design did he really anticipate that a combination of rumor and public outcry would play such a big part in driving early sales, or talking about the fact that Red Bull was Forbidden to be sold.

9:07 In several uh European countries that he uh initially tried to launch in. Uh, Massachusetts is emphatic. Yes, we expected it. It was part of the strategy from the beginning. We would make the brand interesting enough.

9:18 That people wanted to get their hands on it. Red Bull's marketing campaign has always been its claim that it can improve athletic and performance. To prove it, the company took a book and targeted athletes except

9:30 With a twist. Matches has zeroed in on the extreme sports. Crowd. Okay, so that idea is not new. I've done multiple podcasts and read multiple biographies. of the founders of companies like Adidas. Nike.

9:44 And then Van's shoe. If you realize like Adidas started getting a lot of traction by sponsoring They're making athletic shoes, so they sponsor athletes. Nike sees the success they're doing, and so they do the same thing. There, there's a lot of stories about them competing. uh in the early days of Nike. But what was fascinating is Paul Van Duren, who I did a podcast on a long time ago.

10:03 He's the founder of Vance. What he did he's like well I'm not making athletic shoes. But I like the idea that Adidas and Nike used. to gain traction, initial sales traction.

10:12 And so he copied he didn't copy the what, he copied the how. you know, uh Olympians or basketball players, whatever, he's he found an uh underserved, uh excuse me, underserved niche, which was skateboarders. And so he went out and tried to sign

10:27 Like the ear in the early skateboarding industry. And that was a huge Influence on the early success. of vans. And so you see Mash Chits. uh using a very similar playbook from Gatorade and then other products that also

10:39 We're very successful targeting athletes. Today, Red Bull underrates more than five hundred athletes in ninety seven sports. This state is about what I'm working off of is like fif about fifteen years old, so it's probably much much higher than that. Like everything else at Red Bull, the negotiations that lead to these sponsorship deals are unorthodox as well. Windsurfer Robbie Neish recalls his fur the first time he met Matishus almost twenty years ago.

11:01 We talked. In the courtyard of his office, and pretty soon we realized that we were both really into cars. That was the end of our business meeting because he wanted me to show He wanted to show me his Ferrari GTO. So we went driving off into the mountains and after fifteen minutes he pulled over, got out, and told me to drive back.

11:16 I didn't want to. That's a million dollar car. But he said it was I was either going to drive the Ferrari back or walk back. I was so scared that I drove it like my grandmother, the lines between Red Bull. Red Bull athletes and Red Bull events are blurry on purpose. Another great idea. This is why I kept texting people about this guy.

11:34 To Matashitz, it's just one big image campaign with many manifestations. Let me read that again. The lines between Red Bull. Red Bull athletes and Red Bull events are blurry on purpose. To Matashitz, it's just one big image campaign with many manifestation. Potential customers Might actually attend one of the dozens. of global events that Red Bull puts on. It could be a Red Bull soap ock ra race.

11:54 Soapbox race in Los Angeles or a motorcross motocross spectacular in Brazil the week after. This what they said about that this is fun stuff. And it's a lot more interesting than writing a check To buy thirty seconds during the Super Bowl. Despite the fact that he's approaching seventy.

12:09 He maintains quite a clip. He still moves like an athlete. He rides horses, rides a motorcycle, pilots his planes, And last year competed in an off road motorcycle race. He has long insisted he has no plans to sell or take Red Bull public. It's not a question of money, he said. It's a question of fun. Can you imagine me?

12:29 At a shareholders' meeting. Matishitz has certainly created some envyable havens for himself like Richard Branson. He has his own private island in Fiji. He bought it off of uh Malcolbes. When I ask him what motivated him to buy a vacation home so far away, he resort he resorts to quoting Malcoles himself.

12:46 He gave a nice answer, which was Doesn't everybody want their own South Pacific Island? Well, in my case, he was right. I did. Matashus also says that he's always been attracted to the idea of having his own independent state. The country of Red Bull.

13:02 Which would have the shortest set of laws in the world. The rules would be simple. Nobody tells you what you have to do. Only what you don't have to do. Okay, so that was an excerpt not from the book that I'm gonna talk to you about today. That's an excerpt from this long form piece.

13:17 In Bloomberg. called Red Bull's Billionaire Maniac. The book that I am going to talk to you about today. As far as I know, is the only biography ever written about the founder of Red Bull and it is only available In German.

13:30 My friend Cameron Priest, who's been a longtime listener of founders, and he's probably over the years sent me no exaggeration, at least forty great Biography recommendations. Actually help me Translated. Into English. The translation's not the greatest.

13:43 Spending several hours reading what is technically English, but in in a in a way the words were organized. It's almost like you're reading a different language. So what I did is I just pulled out a bunch of highlights and tr try to rewrite them into explaining the main ideas that Matish has used to build, you know, one of the most valuable private companies on earth. And I think the story is incredibly important because He even though he's not American, he's Austrian. He lived something like the American dream from employee to billionaire. And

14:10 Did that with just one Brilliant idea. And as we go through this you'll see a lot of his in ideas actually interact well. Together. So he's this really unique, but I would say cohesive company building philosophy that is completely unique to his personality.

14:23 um and the way he wants to rent live his life. What like you said, he could have taken it public, he could have sold out He's just like, I just want to have fun. I'm making plenty of money. Somehow I think I'll survive making eight hundred million dollars a year and I never want to stop because I'm having fun. And so he was working on Red Bull up until he died. So before I jump into how he views Red Bull as he calls it a marketing conglomerate. I wanna go over what they talked about, they hinted at. in that article, just how private and secretive and how he was just obsessed with controlling the message. He's just a very private person. He was always, always promoting Red Bull and never promoting himself. And so the author of this book, and I apologize I'm butchering all these names. I've already mispronounced I don't know, like half a dozen things.

15:04 His name's Wolfgang. for for Wegger. I'm just gonna call him Wolfgang. So he actually runs into As he's writing the book, he he actually has a chance encounter. With Dietrich.

15:15 And he tells him That He's writing a biography on him. And Dietrich does not like that and y you there's gonna be some wild stuff here.

15:24 Uh, he is neither interested in an authorized biography or in a in a case history about Red Bull. I was able to have a brief personal conversation with him, and when he found out that he wanted to write a book on him. Uh he described the publication of a book that he had not authorized as quote a disaster. So you and I have talked about this maxim over and over again. Very common in the history of entrepreneurship.

15:44 Uh, bad boys move in silence, they find an advantage. They don't like telling they don't like broadcasting how successful they are, and they certainly don't want to tell you what their next move is. And so this entire book, right? It says it's Yeah, there's a strict prohibition of discussing internal matters. So if you are an employee of Red Bull, you can't say anything about what's going on.

16:02 So most of the people interviewed in the book are actually Former employees Of Red Bull, but this is fascinating. They unanimously these people have left the company, right? But they unanimously express positive opinions about their former employer.

16:17 He is universally described as a person with great charisma. So the way he is with employees and people he knows is very different than the way he is with journalists. With journalists, he's extremely shy. And reserved. And the few times he's done interviews, he's done some with like these European publications, he did one with The Economist. Uh with Bloomberg, this is what he says about that. My philosophy is very simple. Since it's not me on the shelf for sale.

16:39 But Red Bull, it's perfectly logical that Red Bull is at the center of our marketing activities and not the person. Naturally, I also have a pronounced desire for privacy. And then we see he utilizes an idea. that you and I talked about on episode two ninety two I I did this uh episode on this guy named Daniel Ludwig. The name of that book is called The Invisible Billionaire.

16:58 When Daniel was alive in the eighties, he was the richest American. uh and no one knew who he was. So I think there was only like one picture of him. And Daniel actually Ludwig actually paid Uh his PR team. to keep his name out of the press.

17:14 Mataschutz does the same thing. The press office of the Red Bull headquarters is is a press Prevention офіс Whose task Is to say nothing. and find a justification for why their boss is unavailable.

17:26 And so even though Matashist was one of the great greatest promoters that we've probably seen. in the last half a century, public relations was not a part of the company's marketing strategy. And the interviews that they do do They're only granted to select publications and select journals.

17:41 And I really need to hammer home this point about how extreme He was in doing this there. He he's in Austria. He's the the richest man in Austria, right? And there's a society magazine. So like you know, I don't c I guess we'd call it like kind of like a tabloid. Or like a gossip magazine.

17:56 In the States. But he actually buys it. He buys this magazine just so he will not appear in it. And he was actually asked about this and he actually confirmed it. He's like, Well, the best way to prevent me From appearing in it is to own it. And so this is tied to his very strong desire. He wants to control the message.

18:12 He wants to tell his own story. That's why he's so heavy in them being available on all forms of media. But he's also a perfectionist who has to control his projects. the product that he's making and the environment one hundred percent. And so extreme success usually comes from extreme characters, extreme personality traits. He actually threatened to have this is way before

18:31 uh this book was actually written about him, but there was another Potential biographer, this Russian author. Uh that tried To start writing a biography. An unauthorized biography on Matashutes?

18:42 And uh management threatened to have his kneecaps broken. Um, he didn't like that the author was going to like his hometown. I think it was like knocking on the door of his elderly mother. And it says this aroused the wrath. Of the otherwise charming manishes.

18:55 You've harassed my mother, and I will not tolerate this. As long as a preforated kneecap in Moscow Cost five hundred dollars, you will not be safe. And so let's go into what he was doing he started Red Bull. This is one of the most fascinating things because as far as I know, it's his first business that he started and he was 41 years old. He was an employee for Unilever. Uh but way before that and any

19:15 What's fascinating, he calls himself like a very lazy student. So he actually chose marketing as his major and It was perfect because he's one of the greatest marketers I've ever seen. But he had to work his way through college. He was actually working at like a steelworks company. And he'd also take jobs as a ski instructor and a tour guide.

19:31 But he didn't think he was that good at school. He called himself a lazy student. Because he took He took twenty semesters to graduate. And he says normally

19:40 You you finished the university of economics at the age of twenty two. And not twenty eight years old like he did. Which was interesting'cause uh that he was a bad student because both of his parents he didn't come for money, both of his parents were school teachers. So after college he takes he starts working for one of the the largest uh consumer package good companies in the world, Unilever.

19:59 He works all the way up and becomes a marketing director. For the international division of a unilever subsidiary called Blendex. It's toothpaste. He's marketing toothpaste. And he did this for a very long time.

20:11 uh he wind up traveling all the time for work. And this is how he's gonna discover Red Bull, which I mentioned earlier. So he's on the road three to four months per year. Often they're sending him all the way out to the Far East, he's all over Asia. And it might have been fun as a younger man, but as he ages Uh you did not want to live that life of this frequent flyer, never home.

20:30 And he has this realization where he said in an interview one time, All I could see were the same gray planes, the same gray suits, and the same gray faces. I wondered if I wanted to spend the next decade Like this. And so he's around thirty eight years old when he's having this thought. Like this can't I don't want I don't want to be forty eight and still in the same position.

20:51 And really what motivated him, he's he this is something he was gonna repeat over and over again. He desperately, desperately wanted independence. He wanted financial independence and he wanted ti independence and control over how he spent his time. And so it's at the same time that he's having these thoughts that he finds that Thai version, the uncarbonated version of Red Bull. Gives him a lot of energy and cures his jet lag. and then reads the article, it's like wait a minute, the people that make drinks like this

21:13 pay the mo the they make the most money, they pay the most taxes. In this entire country. And so he immediately starts to study the existing products in this very nation energy drink market. And he would literally grab every single uh samples of every single kind of drink that's very similar.

21:29 He would get together with other people that he works with. And he he called them, he organized them what he would call Energy drink parties. And at the time they were calling them stimulating juices. So these stimulating juices. We're all

21:41 Like essentially taste test it. And and there was like this l giant like self experiment to see not only how it tastes, but also the effects that it had on them. And so one relationship that he's going to make right now actually changes his life. 'Cause he realizes that there is a Thai franchise partner of a Unilever group, right? They're making toothpaste. But they also produce and bottle

22:01 That that tonic drink. the uncarbonated version of what will become Red Bull. And he pitches him on the idea of them giving him the license to distribute that drink and then add carbonation outside of Asia. And this is when they do that partnership Where they both agree to put in five hundred thousand dollars and then carbonate and then sell this drink.

22:18 In the West. And one main theme that runs through this entire story that's very obvious when you read about'em, whether you read Articles. A book. Anything you you come across he has profound

22:30 profound self belief belief. Because when he's forty one. He quits his job and starts His First company.

22:38 And puts all of the money that he has in it. He doesn't have this like large buffer. He doesn't have a lot of money. And even from the very beginning, and the the reason I think uh I say you have to have a profound self belief Because There's uh you can see brochures. that he was like pitching people on about like the business. I don't I think it might have been using this to try to raise money.

22:55 But he says there is no market for Red Bull. We will create one. And there's this great line in the the the English translation of this German biography. Where it says rarely in the world of business has such a bold announcement been implemented into reality like this one. And so creating your own market is also not only do you have to educate

23:13 uh you know the potential customers, but then you have to deal with all the regulators. And so he tries to set up shop in Germany. And They didn't even know what the hell a energy drink was. And so he had to he applied for what was gonna be the first ever Europe wide approval of a new type of indulgence, which is the energy drink, right? As you might imagine, uh b European bureaucracy is not known for

23:33 for fast approval time. So he's waiting over a year to try to launch Just Uh in Germany. He gets extremely frustrated, so then he winds up packing his bags and going to Austria and he's like, I'm just gonna launch in Austria. Uh, there's a lot of benefits from that.

23:45 But it also one of the main benefits is He had he launched in a single Small market. And for nearly five years. He was able to run experiments and really improve the product, but also

23:57 Figure out the marketing and the messaging. Because he's only in a single small market. So I think he launches in nineteen eighty seven in Austria. And doesn't launch to his second market. Till nineteen ninety two. So they're launching in just one small market. They don't have a lot of money. They just put up

24:11 you know, five hundred thousand dollars each. It's not like Match Shits has any other money. And so When sales didn't take off. He did something that was really smart. He invested some of that money instead of an advertising at the very beginning.

24:22 He actually made more of his Product. And he would bring it and deliver it to places by palate and let people try it and drink it free of charge. This is very similar to one of my favorite entrepreneurs of all time is Estate Lauder. And in the early days of her company, which she also started when she was forty, I just realize that now. She actually took

24:41 uh money out of her advertising budget. And instead made more of her product to give away. And this is what she said about that. You give people a product a try. If they like it, it's quality. Then they buy it. They haven't been lured in by an advertisement. But but convinced by the the product itself. We took the money we had planned to use on advertising and invested instead in enough material to give away large quantities of our product.

25:00 It was so simple. That our competitors sneered. When they heard what they were doing. Today they're all copying us. And so Mataschets knew he needed more money. He went to a bunch of banks. They all said no, only one. There was a small private bank

25:14 Oh my goodness. Spangler? I I'm butchering these these words, but It's a band called I'm gonna call it Spangler. Was the only one to actually believe in the product. And the concept behind it. And so they actually lent him money.

25:26 Now this is another main theme. Uh that's repeated over and over again. Massachusetts is excessively loyal. And so to this day That is the only banking house.

25:36 That Red Bull used in that country. This is where they get the early start. Red Bull started to flourish when bartenders And nightclub operators That it was a suitable New component for mixed drinks. The energy drink was sometimes referred to

25:50 As poor man's cocaine. So this spreading in nightclubs and bars actually gives them their initial traction. The first year they sell about several to several hundred thousand cans are sold in the first year. The next year. That number goes to one point two million.

26:05 And then the year after, so year three, they're at one point seven million. So they're growing, but they're not, you know Growing crazy fast. They're also spending A ton they really start putting it. Putting a lot of their money, I think it's something like over 30% of their gross revenue they spend on advertising. At the beginning, it was even more than that.

26:23 But the remarkable thing is they hit their break even point in year three and they've been profitable every single year since then. And so there's three ideas that he's gonna go into here. One that he was all in, he had that burn the boats mentality. He wanted to go high end from the start and he knew that there was no market for this, so he had to create one. And so he talked about the great personal risk that he did. And starting a company, he says if things had gone wrong, I'd be sleeping under a bridge today.

26:49 And so he talks about his decision to have a high price product. Plus use a lot of that revenue from people spending more money on it. to actually reinvest into advertising. Red Bull was to become very expensive and it was a new product for which there was not even a market yet. So it was necessary to create create demand first. Potential customers had to be explained.

27:07 Why they now desperately needed Red Bull. Which they had not even known existed before. And so one of the things that he does that's so that's very unique that I don't know if I've heard before. is he hires an advertising firm from the very beginning. It sound he calls him his s his former study buddy. So I I'm assuming that is this is his friend from college.

27:24 This guy named Kastner. At this time, Kastner was already a founder of an advertising agency called Kastner and Partner. So Kastner is gonna play a very important role. Because he's the guy that comes up with the slogan Red Bull gives you wings. Now here's I think a testament to how unique Masters is. He doesn't have any money.

27:41 But he's also a perfectionist. And so he keeps turning down over and over and over again all the different marketing and advertising campaigns that they're trying to come up with. And you're like, Well how how how could he be doing that, David? Like he has no money. all this time is going by. I think it's like a year and a half that they're working on this till they finally figure out how the positioning and the actual initial launch and of the marketing and advertising.

28:02 And so he actually paid for this initial work with labor. He had no money, so he actually w helps out in the agency as a freelance employee. Just to pay. for the marketing and advertising that the advertising agency that his friend started is doing on behalf of Red Bull.

28:18 Another important point. Everybody's telling us a bad idea. His friend immediately recognized its potential and he said, if this is pursued consistently This idea will lead to success. So again Mashes is very self confident, has a ton of as you can imagine, has a ton of self confidence in himself and the idea that he's doing, but it is very helpful for other people, especially people that you trust and admire.

28:40 'Cause he said uh he he says that Uh Kastner was a very clever fellow and he knew that he was a perfectionist like me. And so you have somebody like that that you know is smart, that you admire. you trust their judgment. They're like, No, you know, everybody else might be telling you this bad idea, but if you pursue this consistently, you give her like it it will lead to success. And so Kastner was talking about this time. He's like, listen, the this the birth of this campaign was not easy.

29:02 Because for a year and a half He's just rejecting every single suggestion that I have. I think they went through fifty different you know, ways to either slogans or ways ways to market it. Match just rejects every single one of them.

29:15 But Kassner understood his friend, he says he wants the absolute best, he believed in his product. to the end of his days. And so even after 50 failed attempts, they're having this conversation and where they're like, Well, anybody that drinks Red Bull becomes damn strong. So that's the conversation they're having. That's why how they were thinking about it. It's like well you drink it and you become strong, like what's the what's the right tagline or motto for that? And in the middle of the night. Castner has the idea that Red Bull gives you wings.

29:41 And so he calls Masters in the middle of the night and immediately Master's like, Yep, that's it It was a it was a The the fact that that was a good idea was immediately obvious to both of them. The thing about how crazy that is. You're fighting for a year and a half, going through fifty things. He calls you, you hear it, you're like, Yep, that's it. Let's go. And so now they had the branding and the tagline. They wanted the advertising to be this is the the traits that they were looking for. They wanted to be self ironic.

30:03 nonconformist, smart, and rebellious. And the their point was that they that's how they viewed their own personality. And so they're like, we're going to put a lot of our own personality into this. And so now they're up and running. five years they're still in just in that small single market in Austria. five years in, then they they expand to Hungary. That's the second uh market that they open up and then they start adding market after market after market in Europe. Now

30:26 This part was a bit confusing to me. But it seems that the formation of the European Union was one of the waves he surfed. If you listen to Episode three twenty nine on poor Charlie's almanac. There's something fascinating that Charlie Munger would talk about that because he several times in the book, he will analyze like outside success. And he's trying to teach people like well what what would account for the success of like a Les Schwab or Sam Walton? And he goes through and one of the uh ideas that he has, he says surfing is a very important model to understand.

30:54 And so it seems like These this brand new formation of the European Union was one of the waves. that Maschist surfed. Because if a product is approved to be sold in one European Union country it is automatically approved in another one. So it says

31:09 Berlin fin Berlin, remember he's trying to get in Germany finally allowed Red Bull for the German market as well. This made Maschuset one of the first big EU beneficiaries the approval was only possible through a detour. Red Bull managed to get approved in Great Britain. Great Britain was not in their sights at that time, but an EU law

31:28 laid tracks for approval in Germany. And so practically the next day, Red Bull set out to conquer the market in which it actually wanted to settle down. So it's talking about Germany. Now here's the crazy thing. Way before they launched in Germany, there was a black market. People were selling cans of Red Bull. On the black market. So

31:46 Let's go back to this idea that that I've seen a bunch of times, but the the one that comes to mind most uh is most top of mind right now because I just covered Christian Dior's autobiography and he talks about this. Is that rumors and innuendo, you have to think about them as great free propaganda. And so Christian Dior says The relative secrecy in which I chose to work sounds a lot like Master Chets, right?

32:05 The relative secrecy in which I chose to work aroused a positive whispering campaign. Which was excellent free propaganda. Gossip. malicious rumors are worth more Than the most expensive publicity campaign in the world. That is the end.

32:19 Of Christian Dior's. Quote. This is what this book says about it. And again, I have to like rewrite this'cause the the translation's kinda funny, but There was a a a thriving black market for Red Bull in Germany long before it was approved. Remember, it's banned. And people are flocking to it.

32:35 So they're actually people are There's a b people are making money by smuggling it in from Austria into Germany. And so all that does is increase the desire for it because now you're drinking something that's oh my God, this is illegal. And it actually made it more charming because it's like more forbidden. So this is the the foundation of like this cult like following that Red Bull had at the very beginning.

32:54 And it is in Germany where they're spreading these rumors. That the drink contains an extract from bull testicles. There was also rumor that it was secretly enriched with amphetamines. Remember this is spreading in like clubs and bars and stuff like that. And it says the company did not did nothing to counter these bizar rumors. And again, I want to repeat that excellent quote that he had.

33:14 As Massachusetts once lectured, the most dangerous thing for a branded product is low interest. Then they get approved, right? In the first three months. Of a legal market presence They sell thirty three million cans in Germany alone. This idea is not new to you and I.

33:32 Right, this idea is like if something's banned, it's all it is is free propaganda, it's free advertising, it's going to drastically increase the amount of demand. If you remember on the Michael Jordan episodes and also on the Nike episodes, when the NBA banned uh the the original Jordan shoe. At the very beginning, Nike's like Oh, hopefully We're gonna sell like I think it was like four million dollars or no, I think it's three million dollars by the fourth year.

33:53 And then the NBA bans the shoe and they make a smart decision like Just keep wearing it, Michael, we'll pay the fine. And so instead of hitting I think three million by the fourth year. They did a hundred and twenty five or a hundred and twenty six million dollars the first year. And so Mashes does something that he does for his entire career. He really pushes the pace.

34:12 They they launch in Germany. And he his marketing budget, right? So right now, the entire revenue of the company at this time, where we're on the story, they're doing seventy million euros at that time. They're in a few different markets. He sets the marketing budget for Germany. at ten percent, just that one market, more than ten percent.

34:29 to seven point five million euros for that year. And then I learned something that was actually surprising because You go look, like Red Bull essentially just has Red Bull. They might have like different versions, right? But they're essentially so one thing. In the book, there's all kinds of examples. Like they have like this uh coffee and this this this cola line. But In the early days you could tell that he's learning from his mistakes.

34:50 and eventually goes and and really puts like all of his energy behind one arrow. Because let's see, he's a couple of years into the company, it's in nineteen eighty nine. He comes out with this this This drink. It's a lemonade drink called the Red Rooster.

35:04 Which is like maple and lemon syrup. It sounds disgusting, by the way. But They launch it and just a complete flop. And I went and searched all the other drinks that are mentioned in the book that were still in operation, and none of them seem to be in operation today. So I think he's he obviously learned from his mistake. He's like, Well We Red Bull has this this power law outcome.

35:23 It's really silly for us to like try to introduce anything else. We should just stick with that and put all our energy and money behind the one thing that we know is, you know, a um a smashing success. And so this is where they just start. hitting new markets after new markets. By nineteen ninety seven they're opening

35:39 New markets, which are new countries. Nearly on a monthly basis. And every time they hit a new market, sales just keeps like that now you just see this like huge spike in sales on the graph. And then he also launches in America. was very fast. So he actually launches in one state. He serves

35:55 He's like, Well, I think It's working in Europe. It should work in America. And so he just launched in California as a way to test a single market before expanding nationwide. He'll mention multiple times to the fact that he hates banks and is very afraid of debt.

36:10 And so most of the growth is just fueled from actual the profits the company's making. And so he's able to do something that's very rare, which he's able to control costs and maintain financial discipline. even when they're making a lot of profits. And he preaches that to his employees over and over again. It says employees have to argue.

36:26 And justify the expenditure. Of the smallest amounts. Even at the same time that the company's annual record profits were being produced. And so as I was reading how he interacts with his employees Th there's something um if you listen to the Anna Winter episode I did on episode three twenty six.

36:41 I said uh if Anna had a tagline it would be I have to make sure things are being done right. I I feel Metrichis was the same exact way. And and sorry if I'm mispronouncing his his name. Um when he died There's a bunch of different reports so I went on YouTube to try to figure out how to pronounce his last name and they all they're all like European press reports, so they all Pronounce it differently.

36:59 But anyways, this idea of like well his the role he's making, you know, he talks about the fact that he's a control freak, he's a perfectionist. He he's going to make sure things are being done right. And so former employees are saying there's always a great deal of pressure to perform. One can make a mistake, but you can only make the same mistake once. So he expects a lot, but he also provides a lot.

37:20 Um, he pays salaries that are above industry average. And in addition, this was wild. Every Red Bull employee. From the secretary to the board has a company car. Past employees repeat the same thing that he is extremely loyal. They describe him as a gentleman.

37:35 They say if you've helped him once, he will never forget it. And then there's also some bizarre th when I got to this part. This is the note I left myself when I read this part. I go Uh,'cause he's talking about, you know, there's a it it has a cult like following outside. And then you get the i the the the idea that there's a colt like following inside.

37:52 And I read I wrote to myself Am I reading this right? They drink special water only available internally. And so at these internal company events, they drink this thing called Luna Aqua. Which is mineral water that is allegedly only drawn at f at the full moon. And they say it's advertised.

38:09 That it supposedly awakens. The spirits of life. And so they serve it to Red Bull employees and then a bunch of Red Bull athletes or anybody in like the Red Bull family, and I think it might be served at Red Bull events as well. And so there's this great quote. In this section.

38:24 that I think applies to this. Cult brands have their own laws. Otherwise they would not be cultish. And again to you and I when we describe something as cult, that's not a pejorative. This is a very positive thing. A lot of the greatest companies in the world, a lot of the greatest brands, you could describe them as a cult like following. And Red Bull definitely has that. A lot of the

38:42 culture and the ideas at Red Bull it sounds it's just really the founder's personality right large. The accepted code of conduct for Red Bull people is set by Masters himself. He is a fine and elegant person who values a cultured tone of conversation. And good manners. You're supposed to hold doors open for the ladies and you do not get drunk in public. Red Bull is Matches.

39:03 And Matchishitz is Red Bulls, a quote from a former employee. And so let's go into this idea that he views Red Bull as a marketing conglomerate. Again, marketing is our core competency. We're gonna outsource everything else. Red Bull has no production facilities or warehouses. Many large corporations outside their outsource their marketing and advertising activity. Red Bull consistently took the opposite approach. It outsourced production and distribution.

39:26 And takes care of sales and advertising itself. Basically. Red Bull is just a large marketing machine. Production, bottling and delivery which require simple manual labor are outsourced.

39:37 Now. This is also speaks to being a gentleman, being uh more like an old school way of Approaching things The main relations so when he's outsourcing all the the bottling

39:48 uh in the production, right? His main bottler relationship. Was sealed with a handshake. The bottler is this family business that has been around for over a hundred years. He meets with the the lead the the head of that that company, right? It's in German, I'm not even gonna try to pronounce it. They agreed to produce Red Bull on a handshake.

40:07 That was in nineteen eighty seven. And they still have this collaboration. This is what, forty years? How many? Yeah, about forty years. Ah, he says, we are hopelessly loyal to each other. Master Sitz once described his as that's how he described his relationship with his bottling partner.

40:22 For Dietrich mattresses, a handshake among men Is still worth something. So Charlie Munger said something that was excellent. Uh there's actually two he he said this in Charlie Munger said this in this interview. That he did with the release. Of

40:37 the republication of Poor Charlie Dominic. It's on the Invest Like the Best Podcast feed. If you haven't listened to it, I keep talking about this. It's so important. Uh, it was released December 5th, 2023. It is Invest Like the Best, episode three fifty five. It is John Collison. uh f co founder of Stripe interviewing Charlie Munger. In that

40:56 podcast, which I've listened to I think four times already. Charlie Mugger says something that's fascinating. He says trust. is one of the greatest economic forces on earth. He is constantly trying to maneuver his whole life, he maneuvered himself into a high tr uh a w I think he calls like a web of a seamless web of deserved trust. Where it's like, you know, in some cases we have just have a handshake or an agreement. We don't even have a a contract.

41:16 And there's another great invest like the best episode on Rolex. It's on the founding of Rolex. And the founder of Rolex ha did this exact same thing. One of his important suppliers, I can't remember what what part of the uh the watch they produce for him. But they had

41:30 A Handshake deal. No paperwork at all that lasted seventy years. So again, I I think this all ties to the the the great way that Charlie Describe that that trust is one of the greatest economic force forces on earth.

41:43 This is the trust that Matashitz had with his main bodler. And if you really stop and analyze everything else. The way he's he set up his business. It's like well, why would he do that? Well

41:54 This asset light approach frees up funds for marketing. He was building a marketing conglomerate. from the very beginning. He understood that at the very beginning. He's gonna outsource anything that's not his core competency. Something else you see that he he thinks like a marketer.

42:08 So if you remember uh James Dyson had this great realization from trial and error. In his career. And he says you should, if you're making a physical product, make your product look different from the start. Talk about it at a huge advantage, right? He's distributing his Vacuum cleaner.

42:22 The same place everywhere else. buys vacuum cleaners. You go to a store He said you'd see like a line of like let's say five vacuum cleaners. You see four the look of the Like very similar.

42:32 And then a fifth one that's like, What the heck is that? Doesn't mean you're gonna buy it, but you're again indifference is the enemy to the inventor, right? He's like You might not buy my vacuum cleaner, but you're sure as hell going to notice it. And uh Mashes did the same thing where he made the can There y I think everybody's seen what a Red Bull can look like. No no other can look like that back then. Now some have copied this.

42:52 Um but he made that tall Slim can with the intention of looking different and standing out from every single other thing that would be on the same shelf. And one hilarious little story is uh Red Bull has its own private like aircraft fleet. It's called the Flying Bulls. They use them for a bunch of events. The can holders in those planes. only hold cans the size of Red Bull.

43:12 I thought that was cool. I also thought it was cool. uh when asked he was asked like why why he did that and uh Dietrich said.

43:21 Everything is marketing. Let's go back to this focus that he has. He puts all of his energy behind you know one arrow. I sell Red Bull, I sell energy drink. called Red Bull in a can. Might have a couple of different variations, but I don't do anything else but that. And so as the brand got more and more popular He got assaulted.

43:38 with all these offers to like hey let's license it We can make Red Bull gummy bears and we can make Red Bull underwear and Red Bull perfume. And he said no to every single one. He does not want to use the Red Bull brand for anything else but to sell the actual energy drink to sell cans.

43:54 of Red Bull. All marketing is just made to sell more energy drinks. And so I found this fact in a couple different places. I It's insane to me.

44:04 Like, I can't believe this is true. Um, so he talks about the fact like he he hates banks. Uh does not like debt. He's Aiming for fun and for durability over every single thing else. And so his motto it says

44:17 Absolutely no debts. to that since the founding of the company, only in the second year of Red Bull. Did it accept minor bank financing, which we talked about earlier that he's still Uh loyal to them.

44:29 But the company says that they only spend what they've already earned. And so all the growth Uh an expansion has been Funded, self funded. And

44:40 This is the crazy part. To not go into debt. There were no dividend payouts of Red Bull until nineteen ninety nine. So you're talking for the first what fifteen years of the company. He essentially just lived off of his own salary as the the the as the managing director of the corporation.

44:59 And that all the profits had flowed back into expansion. And so how many people would have been able to do that. Fifteen years you're just making I'm sure the salary's great, but nothing like I mean why is it paying off because Then in the two thousands and the next for like twenty years of his life, he's paying himself, you know, I I've seen all kinds of reports. He made a hundred million this year, he made a hundred and sixty five this year, he made four hundred that year, made seven hundred this year.

45:21 His son inherited uh after his dad died, his part of the of Red Bull. And his son's dividend this year was six hundred and fifteen million dollars. So that is a crazy, crazy dedication. to no dividends for fifteen years, living off your salary.

45:37 And then plowing everything back into expansion. And then by that time the company's so valuable that you essentially just are living on unlimited money. And when he talks about this, I think you get insights onto why like why that was so important to him. If you really think about it, I think uh I think it was Warren Buffett said. Us either buffet or

45:54 Charles De Gaulle, but to win you must first survive. And so the way he's operating his company he's what he's saying here without saying is like we're never gonna do anything that could potentially compromise our survival. And here's a quote from him. I have been raised on the motto that one does not incur debt. We at Red Bull spend the money that we've earned, not that we might earn someday.

46:13 We never want to endanger the existence of the company, not even for a second. And so this constant expansion is something another another theme that just flows through this entire story. I loved uh Geor General George Patton's Um speech to the third army.

46:28 Uh I I listened to it to like hype myself up. I don't know, I probably listened to it hundreds of times. But there's something that he says that Patton says to his uh soldiers in that speech when they're fighting they're about to fight the Germans. Uh that I think is very similar to How match sits. Like kept

46:43 I it says that he was he he kept his empire constantly in motion, that he was constantly trying to to grow and expand it. And so Patton tells his army that or his soldiers that uh I don't want to get any messages saying that I'm holding my position. We're not holding the goddamn thing. We are advancing constantly.

46:59 And when I'm getting to this section about the fact that the the Red Bull Empire, you know, through the founder. Uh, it's he's constantly keeping that empire constantly in motion. Uh, for some reason that that quote from Patton popped my mind goes back to this idea that Red Bull.

47:15 as viewed from the founders lens. is a marketing conglomerate. His economic empire is a marketing conglomerate and hence the entire activity of Red Bull. is to be seen against the background of marketing. All corporate projects like Formula One. Football.

47:28 Air races. Media serve the core business. Which is the sale of the energy drink. And he was way way ahead of his time on this economics, especially in the consumer goods industry, he said.

47:39 is essentially a battle for attention. Red Bull throws more material into this battle than all of its competitors, focusing Primarily on sports and increasingly on culture in recent history. No other company uh spends nearly as much money on advertising and marketing, meaning uh other company in the same market. And something that he picked up too was the importance of differentiation, he says.

47:58 You learn this in the first semester of marketing. that you have to differentiate yourself. Consumers want the original, not the copy. So he even applies that not only to his product but also to the way he markets. Like all these media events and these crazy things. So these outrageous and unique events Like the guy jumping from space.

48:13 If you think about like why that's so smart. An outrageous and unique event will get covered for free in other media. This is multiplying his advertising and marketing spend for free. And so some of the things that they spend money on, it says about half of the marketing budget is spent on unusual

48:29 Unusual sports as running in the Himalayas, skydiving over the English Channel. surfing on the Amazon or mic or mountain biking in a mine. That's crazy. These events may not attract too many spectators. Since they don't take place around the corner, meaning in person. But due to their extravagance, they attract interest from new numerous media outlets and thus reach a larger audience. And so even his approach to like sports sponsorship, right?

48:53 You would think, okay, there's a you can go to any sports event, you see, you know, this beer's advertising and this company's advertising. He buys, so he has bought Of the his Formula One teams, his football teams. The crazy thing is when he starts He's essentially what he's saying is like, Hey, I don't want to just sponsor, I want to own and then I want to rename it to the company. So his soccer teams They rename the teams the Red Bulls. So That is their actual name and then

49:16 The logo on the jerseys is the Red Bull logo. And this is what he says about it. Our philosophy in sports sponsorship is not to run around with a suitcase full of money. And buy advertising space. We don't wanna be like Marlborough on the Ferrari. But we want to be we wanna be integrated into the sport.

49:31 That's why we own an F one team. We want overall responsibility and to make our own difference. He calls F one a very important marketing tool. And then he makes sure that all of his uh marketing and all the events and all the stuff that he's Investing in it it's very he has a very symbiotic relationship with other media, like other larger dist uh distribution forms of media. So What they'll do is like they put the they control everything, right? They put up the money for the event. They make the event.

50:00 uh then they make sure that they never relinquish media rights to every event. So as a result, they've produced hundreds and hundreds of hours. of material every year from like T V shows Radio stations.

50:13 Uh print. And then they'll go to other broad T V broadcasters, other t radio stations, other newspapers and magazines, and they will give them their content for free. And so when they put on the Red Bull air race uh the Red Bull air race world series.

50:27 That content that Red Bull made and Owned. They gave it to over seventy different televis television stations all over the world and said, Hey We put all this money into this. Here's something that the people are that you can't get anywhere else and that your customers will find your uh watchers or listeners or whatever, your audience will find interesting.

50:45 Here. We don't want anything for it, you just play it for free. And because the media outlets don't have to pay to produce that material, they jump all over it. So again, a very clever way to just multiply his advertising and marketing spend. And so I mentioned earlier that he has developed his own company building philosophy, one that is very unique to him. And so he talks about the fact that even though he went to school for business, he just doesn't really believe a lot of the stuff that he was taught.

51:07 And so it says Massachusetts amounts as wealth. has amassed as well, despite or perhaps precisely because he is at odds with some basic business principles. If someone says to him that the primary goal of a company is to maximize profit, He simply declares that to be incorrect. He thinks longer term. And more broadly than his competitors. I just don't believe everything I learned at business school.

51:27 He has repeatedly said. He never tires of emphasizing that money was never his main motivation for starting his own company. Rather. The driving forces were longing for freedom and independence. As well as finding joy in the work. This is why you don't retire, right? If you if you love what you do.

51:46 you're obviously he's making uh a bunch of money in it. You're free and you have complete independence to control What you work on, who's around you. There's nothing better than that. Our motto, going back to a quote from him our motto is the journey is the destination. I don't want to go to the summit. To stand at the top. But to do the climb.

52:03 Up. One of the great uh one of this maximum I have saved on my phone. This great line that I think about all the time and I try to apply apply it to my work. I love the climb. I don't care where the summit is. You don't last forty years into the same business if that's not true for you. It is true for Mashes. It's like I don't care. I'm having fun. I'm free, I'm independent, and I get joy.

52:23 From The work And I think in addition to all that, I think one thing that helped the longevity is the fact that He decided to move uh originally the company was headquarters in a bigger city called Salzburg. And he winds up moving the headquarters to this tiny village that I can't even pronounce.

52:38 And it only has fifteen hundred inhabitants. It's like almost all Red Bull. uh the the local like uh governing like the local politician said that if it wasn't for uh Red Bull the the place would be impoverished and now I think it's like one of the richest uh communities in Austria. And so he actually moves

52:55 uh the company headquarters to this little tiny village. This is very similar uh to the idea, like if if you listen to the podcast I did on the founder of Bugatti. He did this exact same thing. That's episode three sixteen. Brunello Cucinelli. You know, it's a huge Again.

53:08 Bugatti did his business for till he died. Yeah, Bruno Cucinelli is still alive, but he's been doing his business for like forty five years. That's episode two eighty nine. uh this idea is like okay, you're controlling the product that you work on, you're controlling who's like who works in the company. But you should also

53:22 put a lot of time and emphasis like where you're actually doing your work. And I'm fascinated by these people that actually build like physical manifestations. Almost like their entire Like building an Building their own like miniature world inside of the world, I guess George Lucas did the same thing with Skywalker Ranch. But we see this idea again with matches.

53:39 This little community is on this picturesque lake in some Word I can't pronounce. And he said they asked like why he why he moved it there. And his simple his answer was simple. The aim was to create a more pleasant working atmosphere.

53:54 Now there was one funny thing I have to add though, because people are having these rumors about why he did this. And it goes back to the fact that he's secretive and likes to control his environment. It also said That's He wanted to build a network of underground Tunnels so you can move from building to building without being seen.

54:11 And then more about the fact that his business is kind of like his personality were at large. Uh, he stays incredibly fit. He loves extreme sports. Aviation, riding his motorcycle. And he's he constantly talks about he refuses to ever get married. I'll tell you this funny s sentence on that. Uh, they call him the top bull, which is hilarious. I don't know if that's just it's the German translation in English. I hope not. I hope they actually call him the top bull because I thought it was funny.

54:35 Uh the top bull takes care of his body, keeps fit. and is in amazingly good shape for someone almost seven years old. He says everything that gives me pleasure in life is connected with a certain physical fitness and a physical well being. And so It is pure selfishness.

54:49 That I do something for my fitness. I like going to the mountain. I like skiing. I like sailing. I like riding my motorbike. Everything I do is connected with a m with physical agility. Motor skills, dexterity, strength. and stamina enjo in order to enjoy it outdoors.

55:06 I need the indoor program. So he's saying his dedication to physical fit fitness to be able to perform well in the outdoors, he has to be dedicated to his gym routine, his work out routine. It says he is the dec He is a declared opponent. to the marital state. He was never married his entire life, just has his one son.

55:22 And what I love most about him is that he was true to his authentic self to the very, very end. One thing he's categorically ruled out again and again. exiting the company in the form of selling his shares. I hardly even allow this question, he said. We could have done it a dozen times already.

55:39 Our view on this has not changed. We neither have the desire to do so Nor is there a need. It's the one exception, of course. One can never say never.

55:48 For a strategic minority stakes Sometimes they can be helpful and indeed make sense. Matish has also consistently and categorically ruled out A stock market listing. A sale or an IPO is not even remotely tempting.

56:04 And when asked if he's going to retire He answered. I'm having more fun. Than ever. And that is where I'll leave it. I will leave a link below.

56:15 To the German version in case you happen to speak German. Also leave some links. to some uh long form, like longer form. uh profiles written about. D trick in

56:24 uh The Economist and in Bloomberg, in case you want to do any further reading. That is three hundred and thirty three books down, one thousand to go. And I'll talk to you again soon. Okay, so I hope you enjoyed that. I had a lot of fun. uh researching and reading and learning about

56:40 Matish, and I think there's a bunch of ideas. uh his approach to company building. Um and really just the way he lived his life that that are gonna stick with me. So I wanna tell you about two things and they're really related. So one, I wanna give you an update Founders notes. Founders notes. uh I really feel is the world's most valuable notebook for founders.

56:57 And I can say that because I've been compiling and adding to it and editing it. Uh nearly every single day for the last five years. And if you think about the story about how Founders Notes came to be one, it's uh it's the best possible way you could support the podcast and yourself. Um so if you haven't subscribed and haven't invested in a subscription yet.

57:15 highly recommend you do. You can uh you can click on the link in the uh in the show notes or you can just go to founders. Notes dot com everything I'd ever do. 'Cause I'm about to tell you about a conference called Founders Only. Uh is always has the S, just like the podcast Founders podcast. Founders notes.

57:30 And now we have the founders only. uh conference, but I think it there these two things are related to like why I'm doing an in person conference that is targeted on Th the mission is to build real relationships between founders. I've seen the difference in my own life of creating these relationships with founders. In fact, I'll I'll just get best basically I'll just tell you about both these at

57:52 Uh one time. I was uh there I've had this idea for a long time. And I'll tell you how it relates to to founders' notes too. But I uh wind up having a conversation was very fascinating.

58:02 uh with a guy who was His job he was hired by a bunch uh he was hired by a family office. Uh so you know, very wealthy family office in Texas, and his job was to introduce And do these in person events. for other people in other family offices.

58:21 And the reason they put so much time and energy and resources behind that was he had a great line. He said Because uh relationship between these two people, like these two investor or founder types, they produce nonlinear returns. You and I have talked about this idea over and over again'cause they're in all the books. And I've put it a maxim to it, that relationships run the world.

58:41 This is something that I had the pleasure of speaking to both uh Sam Zell and Charlie Munger in person and this is something They in different ways. But the the the same idea was behind it that Invest heavily in the relationships.

58:53 build a seamless web of trust, find the most talented p people you possibly can and work with them. Uh because relationships run the world. And so if you think about how founders uh notes came to be Is I didn't like I I started building a relationship.

59:08 uh with one of the co-founders of ReadWise. Uh his name is Tristan. And it's because Tristan sent me a DM. He was listening to the podcast all the way back in 2019, realized that I was Yeah. Kind of. uh psychopathically reading and he's like hey Uh, I built an app that makes it really easy for you to store your notes and highlights so then you can search them and you can recall them and they have

59:29 all these interesting features, you might want to check it out. And I didn't even know what it was. And then I immediately started using it. I be I became not only a super Ha ha. A super user. Uh, but they told me that I was their best sales uh salesman in unintentionally, because I would go on

59:45 I would go on all these other podcasts. And I'd be like This is the best app I pay for. I use it every day. Uh, I become friends with Morgan Housel.

59:53 who's obvious, you know, w one of the best selling authors of the last, you know, decade. Uh he wrote Psychology of Money. Um and then he just released Uh new book. And

1:00:04 I should do a podcast as a new book too. It's called same as ever, and a main theme is that that human human nature just repeats. But anyways, Morgan had heard me on a podcast uh describe ReadWise as a a smart Twitter feed. And so he winds up signing up, using it, and he's like, Oh, that's exactly what it is. And so anyways, over the years, I've been adding to this, I have over twenty thousand highlights in ReadWise that I can search, I can constantly reference.

1:00:26 And Uh what happened was I kept having people ask me over and over again How do I get access to your notes and all your highlights and everything else that you have? And so I wind up because I had a relationship with Tristan, this is gonna relate to the conference. This will make sense in a minute. And so because I had a relationship with Tristan, I contact and was like, Hey, I think we have an opportunity to work on a project together.

1:00:45 And the result of that project is founders' notes, which again I think is the world's most valuable notebook for founders because what you see When you sign up for founders' notes. You see exactly what I see. You have a exact replica. of my readwise.

1:00:59 And so what that allows you to do is you can search every single one of my highlights. Uh by book, by keyword. I just did this yesterday. Uh because I was I was like, man, I am becoming even more obsessed with making founders podcasts and like finding other ways to teach and like share these lessons. And you know, I was like, Am I going crazy?

1:01:18 And I obviously no I'm not because obsession. I mean this is Every single person in the podcast. uh that we cover was obsessed with what they were doing. And I just decided I was like, Let me just go through and it's and I started reading highlights just by searching the term obsession. I was like, Oh Anna Winter was obsessed.

1:01:33 Christian Dior talks about their obsession. Uh Bill Gates talks about his obsession, the founder of Ikea Ingvar Camprad talks about uh becoming obsessed with his work. Napoleon Christopher Nolan.

1:01:43 James Dyson, Leonardo Da Vinci, Arnold Schwarzenegger. Este Lauder, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos. Mike Ovitz. And so it just reforces this idea that if you want to get to the top of your profession, which I definitely do.

1:01:56 uh you know, uh obsession is a a prerequisite. So that's one of the main ways if when you get access, you'll see the the the first thing you do is search for highlights. You can also do this thing called the highlight feed. That is what Morgan Housel Called uh the smart trader feed with the highlight feed is it's going to show you a random

1:02:13 Think about like chw any kind of really Yeah, social network. It just shows you like a piece of contact that Uh after another. Instead of, you know, the ramblings of these crazy people on the internet. It's

1:02:23 Highlights and notes. Uh from All the different uh books and founders that we covered. So I just clicked on it. I see something here from Jeff Bezos, from David Ogie, some of Ivan Chinard. It's like history's greatest founders talking to directly to you every single day.

1:02:38 And so that's why I say it's like if you have access to this Well, you already have access or your you're you want to subscribe now. Keep it up in your browser. I never X out of it unless I do it by accident. So you can do the highlights feed, you can then go by books and search and you know, uh and then actually read

1:02:53 Let's say you just want all the highlights from an individual book. That's what you want to read that day. And then the other feature is favourites. Which what that means is when I go I so I reread my highlights every day. And as I do this, I'm constantly

1:03:06 So I have, you know, seven hundred, eight hundred, something like that. uh favorites right now, that number will constantly go up and and it's updated because I'm doing this constantly. As you can see what I'm reading. And you could see the what I feel is like even Yeah. highlight is special in one way, right? And then now I'm saying, Oh, I've reread these highlights and this is something even more special, something I wanna remember.

1:03:25 So anyways, that is a general overview. What I wanted to update you on uh is there's two features that I haven't discussed. One is and we're gonna make this I just talked to the team at ReadWise yesterday. We're gonna make this more obvious. If you when you subscribe and you if you go under billing. You can actually invite And give access to one other person for free.

1:03:45 So let's say you want to give it access to uh a co founder, a very important uh person on your team. You can do that. For free. This is available by default. If you already have a founders note subscription, you can do this as well. So every single subscription.

1:03:58 is comes with an additional one for free. Uh, the second thing and then I want to get onto the conference'cause I think it's really important. And we only have sixty days. So I gotta move on that. I didn't want to talk about features before they're released, but I've had so many people, a lot there's a lot of like AI founders that have reached out.

1:04:14 um that have already subscribed and want to help on this, but this is already in development. There's going to be a founders GPT version. I should begin testing it myself. Uh in the next week or two. And you'll be able to actually communicate, ask questions.

1:04:26 and use that chat format, which is becoming extremely, extremely popular. And so the important point is if you sign up now. As I keep adding features and obviously keep adding more and more data to it. uh the the price will go up. But the point is if you sign up now, you're you're locked in at that price. So all the additional uh improvements that I do and all the additional features that I do. You'll never have to pay

1:04:47 uh any additional money if you're already running a successful company and you already understand the the importance of constantly being in touch with the the knowledge of history's greatest entrepreneurs. And you want an easy way to reference their ideas, to search through them, to find ideas that you can apply. to your own company.

1:05:03 Then I would encourage you to test it out for a year. You'll have access to the world's most valuable notebook for founders, and I really do believe. the value that you'll get will be incredible because I use the product every day and I get incredible value from it from it myself. So Relationships. This is another thing that people have requested a lot. over the years. They want to meet other founders that listen to founders.

1:05:24 Um of my favorite quotes from Paul Graham, he's got a great a lot of great quotes, but he talks about the importance of being around other ambitious people. And so he says ambitious people are rare. So if everyone is mixed together randomly as they tend to be early in people's lives, then the ambitious ones won't have many ambitious peers. When you take people like this, the very ambitious, and put them together with other ambitious people, they bloom like dying plants given water. probably most ambitious people are star for the sort of encouragement they'd get from ambitious

1:05:52 Pierce. Whatever their age. So for the last several months I've been kicking around this idea, like what would a founders conference look like first of all it's called founders only. You can go to founders only.

1:06:03 dot com to apply. You can see the dates. It is happening in Austin, Texas. March twelfth to the fourteenth. It is going to be limited to a hundred and fifty people. I rented out an entire venue. It is a private venue, not available

1:06:18 To the public. I spent a few days with there before, I absolutely loved it. Once you get past the guard gated gate. You never have to leave again. So all you have to do is get yourself to Austin, Texas, and then every single thing else is taken care of, accommodations, food, the entire event. You never literally literally never have to leave the compound.

1:06:37 So that's Austin, Texas, March twelfth through the fourteenth. So a little over sixty days. From now it is going to be limited to a hundred and fifty people. Uh, you have to be a founder of a company. CEOs with founder mentality are welcome too. It should be unlike any other conference that you've ever been to.

1:06:53 Because my stated goal. The mission statement, the North Star is to help other founders build relationships with other founders to that end. That's why I've limited it to just 150 people. That's why I chose

1:07:04 the the venue where it's at. It is also why before the conference I'm going to talk to every single attendee every single person one on one. I want to gain an understanding of who you are, what your business is about, and what is important to you.

1:07:18 And then I'm literally building a founder map. And that way I can literally match founders together who I think should know each other. I think this is incredibly important. That's why I'm gonna dedicate so much of my time to doing this. I am the only one doing this. I have a world class events team behind me that are taking care of all logistics, but I'm the one matching all the founders individually myself. And obviously I will be there the entire time.

1:07:40 I will get there before anybody else does and I will be the last person to leave. I think this is gonna be incredibly important because I've seen it in my own life that before I had these relationships and the network I have to after. It's not even remotely the same. relationships really do run the world and I wanna help other founders build relationships with other great founders.

1:07:57 If you're interested, if you're willing to travel to Austin, Texas. And be there from March twelfth through the fourteenth. go to foundersonly.com. I will obviously leave a link in the show notes as well. Founders only. Dot

1:08:10 Calm. And do so as soon as you can because this is limited to just a hundred and fifty people. Okay, so that's it. Go to foundersonly.com, founders with an S, go to foundersonly.com if you want to attend the conference and build relationships with other founders. And then go to founders' notes.

1:08:23 Dot com to get access to the world's most valuable notebook for founders. As always, thank you for listening, and I'll talk to you again soon.

What you see above is a preview of the first minutes. One unlock costs 10 credits and covers this episode forever: full segment and word-level timestamps on this page, plus .txt, .srt, .vtt and word-level JSON downloads, as many times as you like.