Transcript

How to break through a fear of failure, with Fawn Weaver & Van Jones

0:01 The very best founders I know are brilliant at building systems. They connect teams, they remove bottlenecks, and they eliminate single points of failure. And yet When it comes to their own wealth. Most are running a disconnected stack. A tax accountant here and a state attorney there, a wealth manager who doesn't talk to either one of them.

0:22 Creative planning was built to fix exactly that. One integrated team of tax professionals, state planners, investment specialists, all coordinated by a dedicated wealth manager who sees your full financial picture and keeps every piece working together. Proactive tax efficiency, state strategy, investments all under one roof. Creative planning where wealth works together. Learn more at creative planning dot com slash masters of scale.

0:53 Hey folks, Jeff Berman here. I am thrilled to share some of the new names who will be joining us at this year's Masters of Scale summit. This may be our biggest stage yet. Reed Hastings, Meredith Whitaker, Van Jones, Amjad Masad, and more. Will be there with us October 20th through 22nd in San Francisco. If you're building something great, or you want to build something great, We want you there with us too.

1:20 Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. twenty six. Mm. Hey folks, Jeff Berman here. We were so lucky to have the brilliant CNN host and entrepreneur, my friend Van Jones, join us at the 2025 Masters of Scale Summit to lead some of the most spirited and inspired and engaging conversations we've had on our stage.

1:56 In the episode we're sharing today, Van speaks with Fawn Weaver who is an absolute force of nature. She's the founder of Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey, after blitz scaling one of the fastest growing spirit brands in history and becoming the first black woman ever to build a billion dollar spirits business from the ground up. Fawn talks with Van about why her focus is not just on building a company. But building an extraordinary life. You're gonna love this one. Hello, hello. Hello.

2:38 You're so well known now. Yeah. what you've done is so extraordinary starting this brand Literally from scratch. Based on a story that nobody knew. We'll get to that. Yeah.

2:50 We would know you better. If we knew what. I always show up as me. Невезенative в мсьо. So the reason I

3:02 Річ піпо Is because they're talking to The real me at all times. Yeah. I have up no walls. I love that. I love that. Well you know I want to for some people may not know this story.

3:16 How many people here have heard of Jack Daniels? Okay. Uh how many people know that he stole all his stuff? You better quit that. That is absolutely not true. Uh okay. So so so tell tell tell us the story of Uncle Neeris, just that they just so they know. So to be clear, since Van decided. To go back to the original story. In two thousand and sixteen, in June of two thousand and sixteen, there was an article in the New York Times, and it was a photo of Jack Daniel sitting with an uh an African American man with seated to the right of him. The reason why that was important is it was circa nineteen oh four. And

3:55 The foto was Дack Daniel and his leadership team. At that time, any African American in a photo would be seen on the peripheral if they were allowed in the photo at all. At all. And in this photo, you had the African American man. To the immediate right, and once you actually look at the full foto, that is not. crot you will discover is is Jack Daniels off center The center position

4:26 Was given to the African American man. So the question becomes why would Jack step out of the center position of the foto? And give it to an African American man. And you have to look at yourself here in Lynchburg, Tennessee, you've got a photographer. Who undoubtedly has never seen this before.

4:45 Understand this, and so I'm looking at this. The world came to the conclusion because the headline was Jack Daniels Embraces a Hidden Ingredient Help from a Slave. The entire world very quickly determined. Jack Daniel was a slave owner, stole the recipe, hid the slave. I looked at the photo and said If you wanna hide an enslaved man

5:07 Or his children. What you don't do It's put him as the center of a phone. And so I looked at this and came to a conclusion pretty quickly that it was very possible that Jad Daniel was our first business ally. And if that was the true story. Then I knew

5:29 To be able to share that with America. Who has an underbelly of race we haven't dealt with? That is what the entire world knows our underbelly. is race you poke us there And we will react every single time. And so I knew that if I was going to inject

5:48 An African American into the story of Jack Daniel distillery. У неї з грін із жак'с ферст. Master distiller He was the only known master distiller for distillery for number seven. For those of you who do not know, old number seven was actually Jack's original distillery number. And Nears Green is the only known master distiller of that distillery.

6:13 The reason why I love Talking with you and and learning from you. Most people would say that's interesting. Right. They wouldn't say that's the key to a billion dollar brand. I didn't say that either.

6:25 I said this is gonna be one hell of a book and one hell of a movie. So the book Love and Whiskey tells the story of how this all unfolded. I didn't show up in Lynchburg for a whiskey. I showed up in Lynchburg because I knew it would be a brilliant book. That could then be turned into a movie. So even when I showed up there, I was already a New York Times best selling author. This would be my third book.

6:49 And I had no doubt that it would be an amazing story if. What I believe to be true was true. If this was a story in which Jack Daniel stole the recipe from an African American man or an enslaved man, I wouldn't have been interested in that story because we have so many of those. What drew me to this story was the aliship the love. Was the love, the honor, the respect. The most famous American whiskey maker of all time moving out of the center position. So when America tried, at some point someone here would attempt to wipe out the legacy of Neeris Green, which they tried in 1978, which is why no one of this generation knew the story.

7:27 When Jack was alive, when his descendants ran the distillery, all the way to the last one passed away in seventy eight. Nearest Green and his boys George and Eli were always a part of the story of Jack Daniel. people are here and people are so fascinated by you is that From the beginning. This is an unlikely story. And for some reason you've been able

7:49 To break the playbook. You have not done a single thing in the playbook. Uh you even said that that you don't care about the PL as much as you care about the love. Mm-hmm. Talk about how someone like yourself Can't and and you got people here who are trying to build companies. They may have a story written on their heart. Did their advisors have told them, Oh, don't say that. Yeah. Don't lead with that. Here's the cookie cutter for this. Here's the way you do that. You've broken all those rules and you've broken through. Just talk about that as a founder. I think the key is this isn't a new blueprint.

8:22 You can go back to Carnegie. You could go back to Rockefeller. Certain elements. And every American Titan that you can find in this story. What I think a lot of people do, and I think it's a big mistake at the current moment. I have so many people come to me and say, Will you mentor me? And every time I say no, but I'll send you a list of books. Because I believe it's a crutch.

8:47 We're looking for someone. To guide us, but the reality є one still living. is still looking to be guided in some area. So if you were incredibly successful in business, but your marriage was garbage and your kids didn't like you by the time you died, I don't want you to mentor me. Right? Oh, and so what I have done throughout thirty listen, is it about to get real

9:19 What I have done throughout my thirty years of entrepreneurship is I have read most books on most titans, and I can tell you what they did. So when I'm looking at Any situation that comes up in my company, I don't care how difficult and challenging and crazy it looks to the outside world, I assure you I've already seen this playbook before. I saw it with Reginald Lewis. When he leveraged everything for Beatrice. The first black billionaire. The first black billionaire when he leveraged everything for Beatrice. I saw it with Carnegie when he's building using a material that wasn't safe as far as Americans were concerned. And yet he had to get them to cross a bridge that he had built that was very expensive, that ran two years behind budget, and which every investor was knocking on his door, and every debtor, and he had a lot of them, was calling him every single day for two years trying to shut him down. And he's building something that America never even said they wanted.

10:22 Mm. He builds this bridge. And to convince America to cross the bridge. Because Americans for whatever reason believe that elephant sp

10:31 Would not walk on any thing that wasn't stable. He does a whole PR move. To have the elephant lead the people across the bridge. Do you know how brilliant that is in the PR move? Бо лимита ПРП.

10:49 And the history of American бізнес. Jack Daniel. Okay. And so when I am looking at what I am doing, I don't look at anything that I am doing as unique. You could call out any element Of my business.

11:04 And I can point you to who it is that I am following in that regard, but here's the key to doing it this way. And and listen, for all of you all who looking for mentors, go for it. Just make sure their personal life is together, because if their personal life ain't together, you don't want that one. Mm. Still ahead, more from Van Jones' conversation with Fawn Weaver.

11:33 Wired Newsroom is known for award winning reporting on how technology shapes our world. On Wire's Uncanny Valley, we take that curiosity even further. Each week, journalists from Wired break down the biggest stories in tech while speaking directly with the people building, challenging, and reshaping the future. Is the AI boom sustainable? How do you protect your privacy in an age of constant surveillance?

11:55 Uncanny Valley tackles the questions driving today's tech debates and lighting up your group chats. Listen to new episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show. Because every Friday we release a second rapid response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about

12:30 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There's gonna be two types of companies. Those are great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future?

12:53 That is human centered. I'm Rana El Calyubi. And on my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives.

13:20 Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Welcome back to Masters of Scale. You can find this conversation and more on our YouTube channel and Be sure to check out the link in our show notes to subscribe to our newsletter. When I am looking at the blueprints that I am following, I could probably point to twenty different ones that are certain elements, none of them in the spirit business. Gotcha.

13:51 Or woman had ever succeeded before me in the spirit business, so I can't follow your advice. I can't follow what you did, but what I can do is I can look to someone who started With nothing. That's the thing. And then I can watch what they did.

14:09 And then after they're dead, I don't know whether or not their family liked them and then I can decide what elements y'all I'm I'm serious about this. I I I don't want to just have a great business Why is that so important to you? Because look, I I have a bunch of questions to hear about business and you're talking about family. Listen, I've been married twenty two years to my favorite person in the world. My favorite person. It's important to me because I think that people give up so much of themselves to build. Yes.

14:38 But We weren't placed on earth. To build. We were placed on earth. To love.

14:46 Еффін супers The love You are gonna walk around empty, and that's why I shoа без мінап мис. I can do that because I am so loved. I don't care about what anybody in here thinks.

15:04 Not that y'all aren't important. You just ain't as important as my husband's words. I'm rarely speechless. That's what Jeffrey said when he interviewed me. I do this for a living. I'm barely speechless. But let's talk about this now because let's be honest. We have a bunch of people who are building companies, who are building businesses, and that's how they think they're going to

15:29 make a difference. That's how they're going to vindicate having been bullied and pushed around and given wedge on the playground. That's how they're going to show everybody who laughed at them. And it has become a singular pursuit, yeah, and in the world of technology. That means that we are gonna wind up with the world possibly with an awful lot of data. And very little wisdom. Yes.

15:50 And we're already now running companies that are data smart and people stupid. Yes. And it has to do with a hole in the heart of these founders. Mm-hmm. Too often. And yet. I can imagine somebody saying well listen Easy for you to say you had another career before you became a builder. You have this broad basis of understanding all these stories if you've ingested in your own personal LLM and you're

16:15 Now with the billion dollar company. But I'm twenty three years old or thirty two years old and I'm trying and And I don't have nobody that loves me like that. And if I spend time trying to find that love I'm gonna miss my moment.

16:26 What did you say to that person? I wasn't trying to find love. Love found me. Okay. I started my first company at eighteen. Okay. So when my husband found me. I was already building. Okay. But what I was is I was open.

16:42 Right. And so for so many people In the building, they begin to close themselves off because they are so concerned. For those of you who do not know, if you buy any alcohol, it's essentially, for the most part, seven spirit conglomerates, right? Six really, and then you know, toss in Tito's, because he's bigger than all of them, even though he has one bottle of vodka flavored vodka. Right. And so but that is ninety percent, more than ninety percent of the volume of alcohol in this country is run by a very small group of people. Then you have this little black girl with all the frickin' confidence in the world who walks in here and says, I don't know what I'm doing. But I will figure it out.

17:24 Mm. And by the time I'm done. I will be sitting right beside each of you. And I'll be running as much through here as you are. But let me explain the reason I'm able to do this. Is because I don't care what arrows they throw my way.

17:43 I won't let it Close me. I remain open and that's a tough thing because people are so afraid of being hurt People are so afraid.

17:55 Of Other people seeing your failure. I said this not too long ago, and people really questioned this on social media, but I'm pretty sure I got the data to back this up. People believe that they have a fear of failure. And it's the reason why a lot of people never launch or a lot of people refuse to scale. They'll stay at a certain level because they're like, if I go to the next level. And I fail.

18:21 So they'll just stay stuck, and they believe that their fear's failure. But I don't believe that is what The fear is because if you try something and it doesn't work. But you were the only person who knew You tried it and it didn't work.

18:37 Do you care? It's not really a fear of failure. It's a fear. Of public embarrassment. Of people knowing that you failed.

18:52 Yeah in that shame button. I don't care. Because if I fail I'll build it again. It's of no consequence to me.

19:02 Oh look. It's so interesting, you know, sitting here with somebody who is free. Yeah. You don't get that a lot, do you? I don't. Yeah, yeah. I don't. You're free. Yeah. And I think that that's something that we don't talk about enough. I got I work with Prince for six years. He was free.

19:18 Yes. He had some painkiller addiction he picked up late in life and it killed him. But he was free. Yeah. And I have not met anybody who felt as free as Prince felt until I'm sitting here with you. It is really I wish you could be up here. It is a it's a remarkable physical experience to be with somebody who is not guarding anything.

19:39 And who's not managing a bunch of ego or fear or presentation, he was just flowing. None of these questions gonna get answered so I I'm sorry, I'll let me tell you. It's so funny because when when my company is going through anything publicly, anything challenging, and people will check in with me, right? And they'll text and like Are you good? And what I'll do is I'll send them a screenshot. Of my stress levels on aura.

20:03 Do y'all have an aura ring? So I live between restored And engaged. Mm.

20:11 And so after this I will go, I'll look at my aura ring at the end of the day, and I assure you I'm gonna still be between restored. Relaxed And engaged while sitting here, leading up to here, when I leave out of here, and I believe it is because. I show up as me. Yes, you do. I don't have a fear of public embarrassment.

20:36 And you have to, by the way. Be embarrassed publicly a few times to know whether or not that statement is true. I I I know nothing about that, but go ahead.

20:49 But I I I I do believe that a lot of people when we're talking about master of scale. A lot of people Choose not to scale. Because they're afraid. A failure on the next level.

21:03 And the reality is is any person who has built anything extraordinary, any extraordinary business. Especially in America. They always did it on risk. They always did it not knowing what happened on the next level. Listen, I I agree with you on that, but I just want to say something to you because

21:25 Anybody could say that part. Take risk. Mm-hmm. What you've revealed here is there's a secret Power. That we Don't talk about it.

21:36 Yes. Self love? Yes. and then being open to love from others. Everybody may not find their twenty two year love of life. But you said something about being open.

21:47 Yeah. This is a tough game. You get a lot of nose. Mm-hmm. You get a lot of rejection.

21:53 Mm-hmm. You get a lot of people who you're trying to tell them what your dream is. Yeah. And they're just blinking at you. Yeah. And you gotta go to the restroom and get your face right. Well see, I don't And that's what I want you to close on is Somehow. They need to add in these business books and add in the all these courses everybody spending all this money on. Yes. A chapter about love and staying open. Talk about the not just the fact of it, but what does it give you, what does it unlock for you to have this

22:23 secret weapon of love for self and others in your business. Yeah, so I don't separate business from personal. Okay. I have no separation. I am who I am at all. times. I don't care if I have on no makeup and I'm in sweats and I'm at home or if I'm here with you. This is the same as if you were at my house. Now if you were at my house I'd have on no makeup and I'd have on sweats. But the exchange would be the same. It is no it is no different for me. But because of that, anyone who knows me knows I lead with my faith.

22:56 I absolutely lead with my faith. So the reason why when people say no, or when people if their heart is turned away, If I am looking for something and they choose not to invest or whatever the case may be, I don't look at it as being that person. And I'll explain what I mean. Він Мозис вас лідін. The people of Israel

23:20 out of Egypt. We've all seen all the plagues that happened to Farrell because he kept saying no, right? We've all seen this. This is the part that people miss, and I live with this in front of me. Із евриси Мозис селе майпо.

23:38 Pharaoh said Yes. And he let the Israelites Go. The next sentence in the Bayb every single time.

23:50 And the Lord hardened. Farrell's heart. And he did not. Let The Izraelite.

23:57 Go. So when ever someone says no to мі. I assume it's God. Not that person, so I can remain open. Біка персон

24:10 was only speaking on behalf of the direction God wanted me to go in. So I'm okay with every no. Font. Ha ha ha I'm gonna do the Oprah, I'm gonna do I'm gonna do Jay-Z, I I this was unbelievable, huh? I got it.

24:30 Oh Thanks again to Fawn Weaver and Van Jones for joining us. This conversation was recorded live on stage at the Presidio Theater in San Francisco. А те мастерс оскел саме. Masters of Scale is a Wait What original. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our senior producer is Trisha Bovida.

25:07 Associate producer is Masha Makatanina. Senior talent executive is Stephanie Stern. Mixing and Mastering by Aaron Bastanelli and Brian Pugh. Original music by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcasts is Letal Mulad. Visit mastersofscale.com to find the transcript for this episode, and to subscribe to our newsletter. And please make sure. to check out our YouTube channel.