Building a $1.5B real estate empire, with Spencer Rascoff and Austin Allison

Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/8fe2ee5bdbd92cd7

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We grew from
Zero to billion and a half was our series C valuation, which we did in like the first eighteen months.
We are operating in 35, 40 markets.
We had three to four hundred people.
We were growing fast.
Hundreds and hundreds of percent year over year.
And then
The music stopped.
Austin Allison's startup, Picasso, lets people buy a fraction of a luxury vacation home.
It boasted about being the fastest US company on record to reach unicorn status, but then mortgage rates started climbing.
And fast.
Fortunately, Austin's co founder is Spencer Raskoff.
the co founder of Zillow.
We started Zillow in 2005, moving into the 2007, 2008 global financial crisis, which was a real estate and mortgage meltdown.
And we managed to pull through and
I've seen this movie before a couple times.
Spencer and Austin weathered the storm and got Picasso back on its hyper scaling path.
It's a stunning example of a startup bringing decades of experience to bear on clever market insight.
You gotta have incredible talent at every position.
There are fires burning when you're going out. Can you believe it? Such an idiot. And then you go back to this is totally gonna be amazing.
There are so many easy ways. I have no idea what to do. Sorry, he made a mistake. But you have to time it right. Oops. It just seems absolutely nutball. Ten years later, but well that's just how you do it. We haven't made it just how you do it.
This
is masters of scale.
I'm Jeff Berman, your host.
This week on the show.
Picasa co founders Austin Allison and Spencer Raskoff share hard won lessons from their real estate related businesses.
and Zillow.
We talk about how those experiences now inform the meteoric rise of Picasso, their new vacation home company.
Austin Spencer, welcome to Masters of Scale. Thank you. Good to be here. I have been looking forward to this conversation ever since uh my friend and I'm guessing you were certainly your investor, Marcy Vu, told me about Picasso, and I was like, Oh my God, this is genius. How has this not been done before? So Austin, we start with you. Just
What is Picasso? What do you guys do? Yeah, so Picasso is a global marketplace.
that enables people to co-own luxury vacation homes.
And the reason why we exist is because most people who own a vacation home only use it five or six weeks a year. So our model enables people to buy what they actually need, which for most people is about one eighth of a home.
And then we manage every part of the experience, everything from designing the home to paying the bills to coordinating repairs and maintenance. So that as an owner you get to just use the home without any of the headaches that are customary of traditional home ownership. I mean it sounds a lot like a timeshare, but what's different about Picasso from timeshare?
Well, the biggest difference is that with Picasso, you actually own an asset, whereas with a timeshare, you're effectively prepaying for the right to use time in a hotel. So it's kind of like comparing an asset to a liability.
The better analog for Picasso would be buying a home with friends. If the three of us wanted to own a home in Mexico or wherever our dream destination is, the way that we would go about doing that is we'd form an LLC.
the LLC would take ownership of the property and then we would divvy up
the calendar and divvy up responsibilities.
Picasso's ownership structure is exactly the same, except for you don't have to know the other people.
And Picasso manages all the details. We've now been around for four and a half years. So we've sold, you know, well over a billion dollars of these Picasso units. We have thousands of owners and operate in about 40 destinations around the world. So what usually happens is about half of the home is spoken for by the time we close.
We then take temporary ownership of the other half of the home and we have great financing partners that enable us to finance that. And then we sell through the remaining interest over a period of about 90 days thereafter. And once the home is fulbs by its owners, Picasso retains no ownership in the real estate.
So you as a Picasso owner get all the upside in the capital appreciation that occurs in the home. How do you guys make money then if you're not holding on to any share of the property, where do you guys get paid?
Well, we think about the business like a tech enabled marketplace that offers lots of services within the marketplace. And many of those services produce revenue for us. So the first service is organizing the group of co owners, sourcing the property and setting up the LLC that we monetize through a service fee that is
baked into the share price. So when you look at a property on our website in that share price is a little fee for us for all the work that we do on the front end.
then once the home gets into our ecosystem, it stays in the Picasso ecosystem into perpetuity in most cases, because once somebody buys a a share of a home, if they decide to resell at a future date, they're not triggering a whole home sale. They're just selling their interest, whether it's a fourth or an eighth.
And therefore all the other services that we provide from financing to property management to design and furnishing to resell are all revenue streams for us that
are recurring in nature. Where did the idea come from?
How did this get started?
Well I grew up
a real estate agent when I was 18 years old, I had to find a way to pay for college. So I started selling real estate, which led to I know you you went to law school as well, right? I I did, although my classmates would tell you I I barely went, but yeah. So yeah. I went to law school as well and ended up starting a real estate tech company in my first year of law school to digitize real estate transactions.
Which we ended up selling to Zillow and that's how I got to know Spencer really well, which led to this company, which I'm sure we'll talk about. But along the way, that entrepreneurial journey led my wife and I to San Francisco. And in twenty thirteen, my wife and I had an opportunity to buy a second home in Lake Tahoe and it just changed our lives for the better.
if you've reached a point in your life where you have some discretionary income and you have some savings
a second home is kind of the ultimate privilege because it provides a separate space where you can be a better version of yourself, whether it's a better partner, a better husband, a better hobbyist. Like I used to always love mountain biking when I was growing up.
But I never made time for it in my primary home in Cincinnati or San Francisco. It wasn't until we had this home in Lake Tahoe where I rekindled my relationship with mountain biking and it's now a really important part of my life.
So this Lake Taho home really
became an important part of our lives and I wanted to find a way to make it possible for more people. But the other thing that I learned about second home ownership is that it's a huge hassle. We wanted to find a better way, we wanted to find a more efficient way.
Because when second homes are sitting empty ten months a year, which is the norm, it creates all these other downstream problems for communities.
Spencer, when did Austin come bring you this idea?
We both left about
five and a half, six years ago, we both left Zillow at the same time.
And after we should say the tremendous run at Zillow. I mean a a lot of success there. Yeah, about fifteen years or so of running Zillow and it was a great run and I'm very proud of what we accomplished.
When Austin and I both left years ago, we immediately started brainstorming startup ideas. I had another idea in the sharing economy space about something else that I was interested in. And Austin improved upon that idea and applied that concept to second home ownership. And as soon as he said it, I said, Yeah.
That's a good point. I have an empty second home that sits there ninety-two percent of the year and drives me nuts. And it's the cost, it's the hassle. It's also the stress and sense of guilt. And so I immediately realized it was a good idea. And it's a a another good way to find startup ideas is to find things that people hack.
themselves.
in kind of an okay way.
And people have hacked this. Friends buy ski houses together, beach houses together, et cetera.
And it usually doesn't work out. Usually you argue over the furnishings, you have a hard time with the scheduling, you can't get a mortgage.
I mean, one of the big benefits of buying a Picasso is you can get a mortgage on just your portion of the home because Picasso created that financing instrument. So you can't get a mortgage and you can't really resell. If the three of us bought a home together, what happens when one of us wants to get out?
Are the other two gonna be saddled with the stranger, et cetera. And so Picasso solves the resale model, we solve the storage.
issue as well because you want to keep things at your home and we have owner closets in all of our homes, so people keep their personal effects in our Picasso. So we thought this was something that's already happening kind of on a small scale in a hacky way that we could democratize and standardized. When was this conversation
Early to mid twenty nineteen. Okay. Where we raised our seed round
February fifteenth of twenty twenty. Okay, so a few weeks before the world. Yeah. Very scary.
But we just went after it.
Start up with D O A for the first
couple months post Covid starting.
It turned out to be an incredible tailwind to the business because
People wanted Sanctuary. They wanted to get away from
their primary home away from the city and
have a place to feel safe and secure. And so the Picasso's that they purchased were able to provide that.
But it was dark days at the very beginning. Well, and I assume also just the move to remote and hybrid work gave opportunity there as well. That had to be part of the tailwind. But before we get to that growth part,
those dark days, I mean Zillow and Dotloop, you guys have done great, but still your founder, you're starting a company, like your heart, your soul, your everything's in it emotionally. What were those days like? How were you managing through that with each other?
The way that I've managed through challenging times, whether it was twenty twenty or
two thousand nine when I started my first company.
Is to just stay focused on the mission.
I've started two companies now where I was CEO and in both
situations I was incredibly passionate about
the problem that we were solving.
And if you believe deeply in the problem that you're solving.
It serves as a North Star to help you navigate through whatever challenges you're facing. So
I didn't actually think Spencer may have thought we were DOA. I didn't actually think we were DOA.
You know, when COVID happened.
I just wasn't sure how we would have to evolve
to find product market fit.
I knew there was a there there. I knew that people aspired to own a second home. I knew that it was
silly for people to own a hundred percent of something that they were only gonna use ten percent of the time. I just didn't know how we were gonna solve that problem.
Was there a point, Spencer, where you realized
Oh, not only are we not DOA.
We're really on to something here. Yeah, and that happened very quickly. And you know, I've now been doing this for a long time, been doing this for
Almost thirty years. And I've seen this a couple of times. We had this at Hotwire Hotwire.com online travel company after nine eleven in two thousand one where it seemed like the company was on the ropes and we were an online travel company.
Through September eleventh and people didn't want to travel. And then through a lot of hard work and focus on the mission, we were
back on the upswing within a couple quarters and and then had a successful exit. And we started Zillow in two thousand five, moving into the two thousand seven, two thousand eight global financial crisis, which was a real estate and mortgage meltdown.
It looks like
Zilla was gonna be on the ropes and we managed to pull through and then
Picasso similar thing, started a home sharing business.
moving into a global pandemic. So
I've seen this movie before a couple times.
And Austin's absolutely right, staying focused on the mission.
Staying focused on your team, controlling the things that you can control.
Caring deeply about your customers and being nimble. Like these are all they sound kind of trite, but if you follow that recipe, that's how you manage through adversity. And we've had our fair share at Picasso. Actually, frankly, the more
almost existential challenge, more so than Covid really, was
the rise in mortgage rates. When mortgage rates started going up and that hit the brakes on really
most real estate transactions, whole home, partial home, everywhere in between.
And so managing through that set of challenges, I think, was even more difficult in a lot of ways than managing through early Covid. What'd you do to manage through that?
Wow. Well, it was a challenging time. So we grew from
Zero to
Billion and a half was our
Series C
valuation, which we did in like the first eighteen months. We were operating in thirty five, forty markets. We had three to four hundred people
I mean we were growing fast, hundreds and hundreds of percent year over year.
And then the music stopped. So fortunately we had raised a big series C just prior to this. And Spencer and I had both gone through challenging economic cycles in the past. And the last thing I or Spencer ever wanted to have to do as a founder was
Downsize the team. Sure. And we tried to plan for that as we were growing. Like we expected that this growth would eventually slow down, but we didn't expect that it would slow down as quickly or as dramatically as it did. So we had to downsize the team.
And we did it with
class, I think, and took care of everybody and you know, many of those people were now hiring back, which is really awesome.
But that was hard. You know, we had to cut our cost basis. So that was number one.
Number two, we had to focus in on the markets where we had the most scale and the strongest product market fit.
Was there a concern with Picasso now, given that you're, you know, in higher end markets where there tend to be more restrictions on not just fractional ownership, but Airbnb has trouble operating a lot of these markets. You're running some trouble there? I would say that the main thing that we've learned from it is that
it's really important to be proactive and not reactive on this front. So anytime we're entering a market or, you know, innovating on a product offering or something like that, we're
two steps ahead in terms of talking to local electeds, making sure we understand the rules and regs in that market. So we structured Picasso now in such a way that
It was
compliant in the same way that our core ownership experiences. I mean this is really kind of the opposite of the Uber and Airbnb approach, which is like
Effort like YOLO, we're coming in, we're gonna do it, we'll pay a price later on, we'll activate a user base to to add a little bit of that um ruin the hard way. Bravado at the beginning. You know, like people are very emotional for good reason about the composition of their neighborhoods.
I think
Some of the public affairs issues that some other sharing economy businesses faced were more about disrupting legacy industries that had lobbyists and entrenched interests.
home ownership is really different. It's quite emotional and people care a lot about
Who owns the house next door and what does that mean to the neighborhood and
Are they emptying the trash cans and is the house in good order and and these types of things just to change the character of the neighborhood. And so we've gotten a lot smarter about where we operate, how we operate, the way we form relationships with the communities that we're in.
And um I'm I'm quite
Proud of the impact that we've had on communities, but we also have to do it.
Made mistakes along the way.
Picasso has faced some resistance from neighbors and local officials, specifically in Northern California.
Many of the critics are already frustrated by what happens in communities when guests come in on short term rentals, and they were worried that Picasso's fractional ownership model would degrade their neighborhoods.
So when we first started getting feedback in Napa is where it all started, or St. Helena actually.
I just kind of ignored it because I'm like
you know, these people just don't understand like this is actually a great thing for them. These are not renters, these are owners who have invested, you know, millions of dollars who care about the home. They care about the community. They're supporting the local charities. It's not changing the character of the neighborhood. So I just ignored the noise, thinking it would go away.
But what ended up happening was the noise didn't go away.
the noise built and perception became reality and before we knew it
Many people in these communities
thought that Picasso was like a short term rental and that it was going to be this revolving door of renters and owners were partying and that we were driving up home prices. And none of that stuff was true.
Still ahead why Spencer recently took on the role of CEO.
for dating app empire match group.
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Spencer, you referenced Hot Wire.
Zillow Picasso, by the way, you're also CEO of Match Group now and you run an investment fund and you teach at Harvard. I mean, it's a little mind boggling what all that you do, but like going way back, where did this entrepreneurial drive this zeal come from?
I mean I grew up I think sort of like Austin always
tinkering and starting businesses. I would bake cookies and sell them to my parents' friends. I would trace drawings and sell them to my parents' friends. And I was always
Trying to make money.
Arbitraging comic books and you know, doing whatever I can to
start companies and and try to build things.
My dad was an entrepreneur in the music industry and that was very inspiring to me. I watched his career as a early tour producer and business manager of rock groups and watched him pivot his career over many decades as the music industry changed.
And that was an inspiration for me. And then my sense of
drive and ambition, I think.
came from the fact that I lost my brother in high school and it's the eve of his high school graduation and he was going to Princeton and he was gonna have a I'm sure a very successful life, which was cut short.
And that
motivated me to try to
Kick ass. And I'm still
Still try.
Yeah. What's driving you to still innovate? Life is short and I think you should make a big impact in it.
And
I'm not ready to just play golf. I don't even like it that much.
I like working with teams. I like coaching and mentoring. You know, the role that I play at Picasso as as Austin's co founder is Austin runs it and he's the CEO and I'm just here to help. And
I really like that. I like coaching and and mentoring, whether it's a company that I'm running, like Zillow as CEO or now Match Grip as CEO, where I'm working with people and building
camaraderie and
Teams.
as a CEO coach or if it's a company that I've invested in or a company that I've co-founded.
I just really like connecting with people and trying to help them succeed. I left Zillow about five, six years ago. And for those five years, what I did was I focused on incubating new startups, mostly with former Zillow people. And so I started four or five companies
Picasso is the largest of them, but there are several others that I'm co-founder and chair of. And I also did some angel investing. So that was a period of my career where I was really focused on the zero to one
the stage of startups.
And as part of that, I also started teaching this course on how to do startups at Harvard College, which I've been doing for five years.
I decided to get back in the arena as a full time CEO just a couple months ago as CEO of Match Group because I was so interested in the mission because
Match group owns Tinder and Hinge and twenty consumer social and dating apps.
For me, curing loneliness.
Sparking meaningful connections, helping people find a spouse partner.
Friend anywhere in between.
That inspires me. I think that's a really cool, exciting mission.
I love the power of those brands. And so
I connected enough with the mission to s decide to put the cleats and jersey back on and get back on the field as a full time CEO.
And so I'm not angel investing anymore. I'm still working with folks like Austin, whose companies I help start, but um, you know, I'm not launching new initiatives. I'm I'm a full time CEO of a big publicly traded company now. With match as someone who's not in the dating market, um how is it running a consumer company where you're not actually a user of the products?
Well, I am a user of the product now. I I mean I'm very happily married. I've been with my wife for more than thirty years, but I'm on all the apps and she's a uh she's a trooper. She's a good sport. I get notifications all the time of you know, this this person just sent you a rose and this this person is chatting with you and this person's waiting for you to respond. Careful which way you swipe. Yeah, so so she's a good sport about
I mean I need to be on the apps. I said to her when I took the job, I was like, Can you imagine if I was running Zillow and I never used any real estate apps. Like I I can't I can't do that. You have to have
consumer empathy that comes from using your own products and spending a lot of time talking to your users. So I do use it use the products. My profiles all say I'm the CEO of the company. I'm just here to learn, just here to research. So I disclose the fact that I'm not single. But
I mean more to the point though
I think you can develop user empathy through research and just spending a lot of time with the users.
Actually teaching my class is really helpful because that is our demo. Gen Z eighteen to twenty four is the primary
user of Tinder Hinge and our other apps. So spending a lot of time on college campuses, which I do, is really valuable.
having a twenty year old in college and a sixteen to thirteen year old is actually really useful because they're the ones that are using consumer social apps like Snap. And so that's also where I learn
Before Austin and Spencer co-founded Picasso, they worked together at Zillow.
That's thanks to a years-long professional courtship where Spencer, a CEO of Zillow, eventually acquired Austin's startup, Dotloop.
Dot Loop was a software tool to streamline the process of buying property.
I was curious to hear how that acquisition play out from both sides of the deal.
So Spencer, how do you find out about dot loop?
It had a big great reputation in the industry. I would, you know, hear about it in conferences and the courtship, the kind of mutual courtship between Austin and me was several years. And it's actually worth reflecting on that for a moment for startup founders listening to this.
Zilla bought seventeen companies. I bought seventeen companies when I was CEO. Dotloop was one of them.
the median time from when I first shook hands with the founder of those seventeen companies to when
those seventeen wires across was about two years. Well
And I don't remember what dot loop was, probably longer, probably three years, I'm guessing of how long we knew each other and we'd see every couple of quarters and we'd catch up and, you know, have a cup of coffee at a conference or an event.
And so
It's really important for startup founders to remember that because companies don't get
Sold, they get bought.
And I always advise startup founders to
Make a list, create a spreadsheet of every potential strategic acquirer of your company.
five, ten, twenty, fifty companies ideally.
Figure out who the CEO is and the head of corp dev and be very intentional long before you want to sell.
start building those relationships and carve out time on your calendar. Literally
block an hour a month.
Call it MA planting seeds.
And during that hour, I'm gonna pick up the phone and reach out to two or three of these people and you're just calling and say, Hey
Can we have coffee at the next conference? I want to tell we're up to. We're doing cool stuff, innovating.
you know, when the company's not for sale, we let's talk about potential partnership or ways to work together, just want to get to know you better, et cetera.
And then a couple of years later that can that can become a I think this is phenomenal advice and but for a lot of startup founders, they're probably scared hearing this. They're like Well, but I'm gonna go tell this behemoth, this eight hundred pound gorilla, what we're doing. Like I'm gonna inform their product roadmap. It is a small risk. The potential upside far exceeds that potential downside. The chances of a competitor, whether it's a big
Potential acquirer, even another startup.
Learning something from that conversation and going and replicating it is very low. It's not zero, but it is quite low.
And the potential upside is really significant. I mean the truth is it Zillow, if we had really
Wanted to go
Knock off.loop.
I didn't really learn anything from those m conversations with Austin that would have made that more likely. Maybe it would have opened my eyes to the opportunity and that might have caused me to go internally and say, Hey, let's spin up a team and try to do this.
But again, more likely it opened my eyes to the opportunity and caused me to want to acquire the company, which is what happened. In this case, Dot Loop had a a really good brand and strong network effects and important customer relationships. We could have built the product, perhaps the technology, but
There was a lot more to it. So obviously founders are gonna wanna think this through themselves, but
I always err on the side of overcommunicating about your idea. Yeah, I think it's worth noting that there are a handful of companies out there were reputationally
they do this and it's good to do a little bit of research ahead of time before you hit everyone on that list. Yeah. I mean I and I was always very careful about that at Zilla, that I thought our reputation as an acquirer was very important. And
You probably did some references from some other companies that we had bought before you decided to s I'm guessing before you decide to sell. And it was very important that we had a lot of founders
Whose companies we bought that stuck around.
for many years like Austin did and the rest of his team did.
Until that most of that team that you brought into Zilla left.
Mm.
go and start Picasso. So the buyer reputation is very important. Why'd you sell the Zoom?
You know, one of the things that I was thinking as Spencer was talking is that I agree with everything you just said. I think it was hugely important that I had that relationship built.
So I would recommend the same, but at the time when I was building that relationship, I wasn't thinking about it.
As Zillow might be our acquirer. In fact, I was just like
absolutely adamant against the idea of selling. I viewed selling as a failure.
I'm like, we're building this company to take it public and we're gonna do it. And anything short of that is a failure. So selling never crossed my mind. I was only building the relationship with Zillow, and there was like one or two other companies like this that I was also building a relationship with because I admired the company.
And I was thinking about it selfishly as like what can I learn from these guys?'Cause they're doing
really cool and interesting stuff. And I just want to position myself
To succeed, right? Same thing that that I was learning in law school, like being around really smart, competitive, hardworking people elevates your game.
So
That is what drove me to Zillow, and that's ultimately why we sold to them. And we were getting ready to the Razor Series B.
And
It was like a moment in time this opportunity
Do we want to sign up for a series B and
go at it for another, you know, four or five years, or do we want to join forces with this bigger company?
and increase the probability of success in fulfilling on the mission. And that's what I chose. I believed that being part of Zillow would enable Dot Loop to achieve its fullest potential.
I also believed that it would benefit me and the team
by being able to work closely with these other entrepreneurs and leaders who were further along in their career than I was. You know, Spencer's maybe what, ten years or so
further along in his career than I am. So there's a lot that I can learn from that. And many founders leave after they sell to the the company.
Uh I didn't leave.
And it wasn't because of money.
The reason why I stayed is because I viewed it as an education. It was like
Three and a half years of incredible opportunity to up my game.
I was in the room, you know, as an executive with all these smart people and it led to other opportunities like
Co founding
Picasso with Spencer.
That would have never happened had I just jumped ship and left it to everyone else to try to make this integration work.
So let's come back to Picasso today. There are rumors of going public?
Definitely plan to go public when
We're ready and when the market is ready, that's our plan A
You know, I have to
Disclaim that nothing's guaranteed.
But yeah, that is our preferred path.
I mean, we're in the midst of something right now which is pretty innovative. We're t in the middle of a reg A offering, which is a way to democratize access to
individual investors to be able to buy shares in private venture funded companies. It's very on message for what we are as a company. We're trying to democratize access to second home ownership. And so we're democratizing access to let individual people buy shares in the company.
So we are sort of quasi public. We file
public financial documents with the SEC twice a year instead of four times a year.
And individual investors can go to our website and actually buy shares in the company. The shares don't trade, but they're purchasable from the company. So it's a interesting way to raise capital and it's been great for us, actually. We love it. We think it's the future of capital raising at this bridge moment.
Once you're done raising venture capital from
traditional Silicon Valley type investors.
but before you're publicly traded on the market. It's relatively new. So it just hasn't been around that long. I don't think a lot of companies know about it. Yeah. I would say most importantly, nobody knows about it. Like I have a bunch of, you know, entrepreneur and investor friends.
And
Most of them had never heard of this thing.
And
People understand crowdfunding.
And they understand reg D, which is the reg that we use to raise venture capital.
But this is
Neither.
You know, it's like it I mean, I guess you could think of it as like a giant crowdfunded route, but it's much more analogous to going public, except for you're not traded on the other side of it. In fact
when you go down reggae, you're you're putting yourself and the company on a path to comply as a public company within a certain period of time.
fast forward five years aside from the prospect of going public, what's different about Picasso than today?
The long term vision here is to create a new
category of ownership that becomes as ubiquitous in the
Second home space as
condominiums are in a big city just seems inevitable to us.
that co ownership is gonna prevail as the preferred way for most people to own a second home. So I think we're much bigger five years from now, but we have a feature called global swap, which
is just a feature on one level, but it's much more than a feature in terms of the value that it provides. It really provides our owners with a lot of flexibility around how they can derive value out of the Picasso experience. And I think as our portfolio grows, the value of the swap network grows exponentially. And then the third theme is international.
I think we'll have a much larger international footprint because we have made it so easy for people to buy a home.
That
previously thinking about buying a home abroad, like if you live in California and you want to own a place in Paris
That is a
Overwhelming.
Undertaking.
With Picasso you can be an owner in Paris tomorrow.
And coincidentally swap is the next app that Match Group is launching, I heard. So Yeah, exactly. I love it. Guys, thanks for being a masters of scale.
Thank you so much.
It's
Incredibly impressive and so exciting to watch how Spencer and Austin are leveraging all they've learned about real estate in their earlier work into the Picasso business model.
I'm also still struck by Spencer's advice for startup founders to be intentional about building relationships with the bigger fish in your particular pond.
Even if you're not sure whether or when you might want to sell your business, Zillow's acquisition of Austin's company is a great example of how successful exits require strong relationships.
One thing AI can't
Yeah.
Build for us.
I'm Jeff Burbin.
Thank you for listening.
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