#865: The Most Incredible Transformation I’ve Ever Seen — Jerzy Gregorek on Autism, Cerebral Palsy, Coaching, and the Power of Micro-Progressions

0:00 Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs, this is Tim Ferris. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferris Show, and I'm gonna keep my intro very, very short. There are a few things you're gonna want to pay attention to. This blew my mind. I think it will also blow your mind. Two things. Tim.blog. slash hard choices. That is the video mini documentary of prison no more. This is about the transformation that you're about to learn about. You gotta watch it. It's very short.

0:28 And it almost defies or seems to defy Explanation, but there is a method to it. Tim.blog slash hard choices. That's link number one. The second is if you're interested in supporting or being a part of the cerebral palsy research. Go to Tim.blog slash CP

0:48 and fill out the Google form. So two more times, the mini doc, Tim Dotblog, slash hard choices. Definitely check it out. And After the episode. if you're interested in the cerebral palsy research, supporting it, being a part of it in any way.

1:01 Tim.blog slash CP Optimal minimal. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. And then also does some questions. Now it's in the time. a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endocrine.

1:20 Jersey, nice to see you. As always. Pleasure.

1:31 Yeah, I always love spending time with you. And I have wanted to have this conversation for Doing the math. More than ten years because you told me. of this transformation that we're gonna be. discussing in detail a long time ago.

1:49 And Yeah. blew my mind to the extent that you may not remember this. I wanted to try to figure out a way To hire a long form journalist.

2:03 long form magazine piece on this, and it turned out Then a much better format. Is film. And certainly in this conversation we'll talk about it, but not to bury the lead for people who don't have any context. Jersey.

2:16 and I have known each other quite a long time and Jersey's appeared on the podcast before alongside Naval Ravakan. Who also has worked with Jersey. And Drewzy's a four-time world weightlifting champion, co-founder of UCLA's weightlifting team, co-creator with his wife Anjela, the lovely Anela of the Happy Body program. There's a lot more to his story. We get into it in depth in the first conversation. This time around, we're gonna talk about a very, very specific transformation that people might not associate

2:47 With weightlifting when they envision lifting weig in the gym and that is just how far reaching Coaching transformation. can be. And I'm gonna read a definition first.

3:02 of cerebral palsy, CP. This is from the AI answer on Google, but you'll see some version of this in most places. So cerebral palsy is a group of permanent disorders. Affecting movement, posture, and muscle tone caused by abnormal brain development or damage to the developing brain. Usually before birth, sometimes it's during birth.

3:21 It is the most common motor disability in children resulting in non progressive limitations. I'm just highlighting a few words here. Permanent non progressive limitations. Meaning the brain injury does not change over time. on muscle coordination and balance. No.

3:37 I'm gonna compare that with a lead into the doc which I'm making available for free on YouTube. Which is called Prisoner No More. We'll have more to say about that. It is Quite short, easy to watch, about thirty minutes to my memory. And

3:57 Here's the description. What happens when a doctor's prognosis becomes a life sentence and one person refuses to serve it? Prisoner No More follows To Gin Park and I recognize that as not probably the perfect pronunciation for Korean, but to Jin Park, a young man diagnosed with cerebral palsy, who dismantled every physical limitation medical science predicted for him. For elite athletic training under Olympic Strength Coach Jersey Gregorick.

4:21 And an uncompromising commitment to identity transformation to Jin's story redefines What the human body and mind are capable of. And that's directed by Jeff Wolf. And we will come back to that. As well.

4:34 But Let's hop into an actual conversation here. And Begin with

4:42 Jersey, if you wouldn't mind, just some before and afters. Right. And then we'll go into the entire chronology of it and everything else. But maybe we could just touch on a few like bench press what he could do before to gym and what he could do After that.

4:58 Mathieu. language, where would you like to start? Uh, let's start from Bench Press, I guess. Okay. So the first day he I loaded the bar.

5:09 Fifteen pounds and He couldn't lift. He couldn't take it off the rug. Just only fifteen pounds. So I have this wooden bar Olympic. Within bar.

5:22 That I Used to go to the Four year olds, five. I remember my daughter was doing snatches when she was three years old.

5:33 Is three pounds. But I uh With the three pounds on. And he lived it.

5:40 Papo. So I thought Okay. Because they're free. So let's see if he can lift eight.

5:49 Say I did Five pounds and He did. Surprised me. The difference.

5:55 And then I loaded Another five one and it was Verdeen and he did. Came back to fifteen pounds.

6:03 He barely lived that. Lived it, but he did. The dad gave me The insider either way. That he is going to progress fast.

6:14 So I ask for His father to come to the gym. And I told him. You have to be here. And you have to watch every session with him.

6:25 I guess. Something is going to happen here. I already Yeah, that Feelings that

6:32 Something good is going to happen. So I don't wanna spoil the story. We're gonna get into Micro progressions and certainly the importance of the bench press, which you identified really early on. What did he get to as his sort of maximum? Working weight in the bench press. He got to one seventy.

6:49 What body weight? I think around one forty. Passing his body weight. He became stronger than his father. And his father couldn't believe.

7:00 But as the father was Watching it. For years. And he said Or one point, is it?

7:08 I'm really getting what the micro progression is. It's an amazing thing. Yeah, that was um really something. So another layer to this story. That makes it all the more Amazing and inspirational. And mind boggling is that Tajin also is autistic, if I'm correct.

7:29 Right. While you're helping him to build confidence and competent. Physically, you're also working on a lot of other things. And I'm sure we'll get into many of them. But could you just Tell us a bit more about his conversational ability.

7:45 Before. And after. What the father Told me that he was conversation on my way of Tajan was Time to go.

7:54 Too bad or Time to eat. And there we Some probably more because he Could come to

8:02 One to ten. But he wouldn't know what is three minus two. So the mave What I noticed that He needs to work on the map because

8:13 I ask him to do five squads. And he did six or four. Sometimes five. I said to Jen. I wanted five.

8:23 And so that was why And it was sex, right? So He was missing. And that gave me the idea that He needs to work on his mind.

8:34 So I started um Asking him Simple questions. What is Two plus two. And

8:42 Up to ten, he was okay. But after Ten. Didn't know what is the five plus seven. The subsaction

8:53 Didn't know at all. So that was the beginning of the math. I came to English and and a conversation. She

9:03 Couldn't Have any conversation. So the Father. After about probably a year, he said we had the first conversation.

9:14 After a year of training. Yes, we are actually. Talk about some. That's why that was amazing. Yeah. How long you train?

9:24 With Tit. Almost five years. Okay. So at the end of five years. With math. Where was he?

9:33 At the end of five years. Well he is in community college. He passed fifty seven units. So he is waiting for another free unist to And you're sixty.

9:45 And go to San Jose State. So you can you can imagine what his moth is in English. He writes essays and It's just It's just let that sink in, people. It is so wild. And you'll see this in the video. So

10:01 To not just converse about concrete objects, the mug in front of us, or Something to the left of us, the dog on the floor. But you had him Memorize. Poetry. So you could discuss things like emotional tone.

10:18 Metaphor. getting into much more complicated Terrain. And Honestly, the more I

10:27 learn about this and the more I revisit it, because this is not the first time we've talked about this. And I I just re watched the documentary earlier today in which I did the voiceover for. And I got really emotional watching it, to be honest. So I wanna talk about the how to.

10:44 because there's so many, so many pieces to this. Maybe what we should talk about is Why previous approaches hadn't worked, right? How are people with cerebral palsy generally treated? By society, why do they have these deficiencies? The lazy explanation is well, they had this brain damage or abnormal brain development, and that's that. It's a sentence.

11:07 And then Dijin had worked with physical therapists. before Meaning you. Like why didn't

11:15 You make. progress. I mean those are two different questions, but I'll let you start with Maybe How you view

11:23 the environment and society as implicated in the development for people with cerebral palsy. And this applies to many other places, by the way. It's not limited to cerebral palsy. But for instance, we were talking about the community college and to Jim when he decided to go back to school, which didn't start with college, of course. And There were a lot of pressures to put him into a special program.

11:44 And you were like, No. No special program. But He has to be around normal kids. So I'm leading into it a little bit, but would you like to say a bit more about that?

11:53 Well, you know, I come from Olympic weightlifting. As you know. So atletics. Focus always on progress and reaching records. Breaking record.

12:04 And that's what uh athletes are about. But when you Think about physical therapies. I rectors.

12:13 Doctors. We call them really in weightlifting recoverers. So helping us to recover occupying uh massage and All of this. Is when we do the training.

12:27 We need recovery. So the recovery is that system that Helps us too. Recover the body for the next day. And uh

12:37 The next day something a little bit more than before. And Yeah, create the progress. when physical therapies approach, let's say somebody that Is after surgery or has problems.

12:51 The mission is to The return to person. toward the person who was before. And the same with doctors. Make them

13:00 Healthy again. But With Tajan. That's not the case. Because

13:06 Or cerebral policy people. Because they are Oh, did that. In the Cannot return anywhere.

13:13 So they I have to Progress the same way as athletes. Forward. More.

13:22 Yeah, it a stronger Faster. What is five? Plus seven. Or

13:28 A line. Memorized the Oh. And you know, belief system. Bad.

13:34 Yeah, talk. Before then. Trigger to it because He hated The sun.

13:42 The sun. And he hated police and he hated murder, he hated Ah, they're in And that came out. During our

13:50 Process of coaching. So that I had to address to So the philosophy was also the part of it. It was poetry.

13:59 Philosophy. And it was English. But uh coming back to what Yeah. Sad about

14:07 A whole Community That works with cerebral policy. I think that they The focus is not athletic focus. The focus is to comfort them.

14:18 So not really Improve them. Not to Improve them so they are improving. Just to comfort them so they have the

14:27 Saved your life and Stay okay. I guess. That's probably the difference here.

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17:43 Yeah. And just to reiterate something for people who are listening, right, we're talking about In some respects two things that will get intermingled as we talk. Which does not mean that we're equating them, but you have on one hand sort of the

17:59 mood affect and some of the communication challenges and other components of Autism spectrum disorder. Then you have The motor challenges.

18:11 And much more, of course, related to cerebral palsy. We're talking about both. And Let's revisit the prior physical therapist, right? Because I believe based on some of the notes that you sent to me. That his approach was to put

18:27 Pigeon on a treadmill. Is that right? Where you just there wasn't in other words, it was he threw him into A plan, but it wasn't a progression. I don't know if that's fair to say. I mean maybe maybe there was some minimal progression to it, but

18:43 Maybe some progression of a treadmill. But treadmill after why Is exhaustion. Diadness. And uh Brain actually becomes depleted.

18:54 Instead of Getting the power. Getting this threat. Getting more energy. You're thinking about

19:00 Arresting. Energy. And when that resting energy can be improved. The dressing energy. can keep the person awake.

19:10 He was very lethargic at the beginning. Yeah, it would sleep in the car. You would sleep in the car. No, never never was awakened in the car. When he was In the room. He would usually sleep because

19:24 He was not engaged with people. So he was Sleeping. And so the bench press. Seems like it was one of the

19:33 Kind of key components to increase resting energy. Yeah, it's Ben for us. I squads. Back squad. Asquad and then uh

19:44 Eventually The bags quite was big challenge because he Couldn't sit down. He was very stiff.

19:53 Because he was stiff, he would fall on daily basis. It was bruised all over the body. And he Walk awkwardly.

20:03 Usually father. And when they were Walking and he was just walking very To the left, to the back. Oh quand.

20:12 That He did a Challenge. The challenge For the squatting was that he was not able to squat down. He was able to bend.

20:22 Right. Which is why his parents also took him to the bathroom. Box or the chair. You remember the boxes I use. He was not able to sit on a twenty inch box. Because he was bending forward and looking for the box. So that was uh

20:40 Yeah. I guess uh at the beginning Uh about twenty inch, twenty Three inches. When it came to sixteen inches, I noticed that he is nicely squatting down.

20:52 And also was able to turn. At the beginning he was not able to turn. So when I noticed that I So the dot.

21:02 He's ready to go to the restroom on his own. And ready for the other things in the restroom. And that was The beginning of The first

21:12 Really independent. For Tajan, he was able to dress himself. The other thing was to How you did. Should it be.

21:22 So at certain point I saw that he has this The shoes and uh his shoelaces were Untie. And The father run

21:31 To tie his shoes. I said no no no. He can do that. And Okay. So

21:38 Other S. Yeah outside of Yeah, our lunges in the our house. And so he bends.

21:46 And he tried to tie. And the father was looking at Piercing, you know. I said relax. Thank you. He's going to be care. And I created this atmosphere facilitated for Jan so he could relax.

22:00 And he could actually make it happen. It was about twenty minutes before he actually made it. But it was a torture for the father. I started really seeing how the parents are with him.

22:13 Yeah. I Add to teach the father the the father the mother Patient to wait.

22:20 Until he does something. Not to do for him. So that was Also element That was needed to be fixed.

22:28 It's Also Looking at it. with a very through a very sympathetic lens I can understand how All three of them.

22:38 Have been struggling and working hard to do the best they can over How does Pigin when you when you met him?

22:48 Tive. It were intense. Twive years, right? Of conditioning and habits. So it takes Time for everybody involved. They were so intense that With him.

23:03 And he was Sure. I would say so fast to respond. And he's Also walk was that way.

23:13 He tried to walk fast because he Then walking fast. He will be Be normal.

23:21 But I slow down everything. I Walk and it was the torture for him, but you know Yeah.

23:31 H And uh Thank you. After about Two, three years he started walking normally, heel and toe and

23:38 I know I have videos I send you videos of it. It just was just amazing to watch that hand to walk. His arms were really up and really contracted. Yeah. And control extremely control. And then Everything

23:56 Started being More soft and relax and And he started walking Like you know, like a normal person what the father wanted.

24:07 One of my earth days and It was just amazing to see him out about four years. People were just Yeah.

24:17 Has a nice You know, it's just like Is it the same person really? What happened to Taj and it's just like Amazing. So I'd love to

24:26 highlight a few of the Ingredients. That's were critical for the recipe that led to that. Because

24:35 Friend of mine. I'll name him'cause it's funny. He'll get a good laugh out of it. I remember I introduced my friend Mike to you. And Mike has very he's a multitude of issues with his hips. He has one titanium hip. And I remember

24:49 I introduced the two you, he came over And you guys trained, he you laid out a program for him. And he was unable to squat properly to a certain depth, so You meet people where they are, right? Everybody can improve, but it's about knowing the starting point. You're famous for saying this. And so you gave him a certain depth and I remember he w he did that for maybe a week.

25:10 And then he was feeling good, so he decided to do it, you know, five inches deep, or something like that. And he came back and met with you and your your response was, You are wasting both of our time. Because the microprogressions are a key component to progressing. without injury and also I know that you feel like the no pain, no gain. approach to training is a myth, right? Or that belief undergirding training. So I want to mention just a few other things and they're

25:41 Of course, all in line with your most famous mantra of hard choices, easy life, easy choices, hard life. Hard doesn't necessarily mean painful. Right, but it does mean hard or difficult. But I wanna mention a few of them here. Because it's so comprehensive. We'll come back to this, but

25:59 A car spotting. Right. So Tejin was so lethargic, as we already noted, that he was typically sleeping, but after six months or so You asked his father if he noticed anything new, and he remarked that Tajin had noticed a car on the way over. So you started to give him assignments to remember the cars that he spotted, the collar, the make. Whether the driver was male or female. And you got an inkling of his

26:25 potential for math because you started memorizing the license plates, which is just incredible. Then negativity, right? This sort of negative affect you already mentioned him hating the sun. Hating the police. hating this, that, or the other thing at certain points hating the work out, which maybe we'll come back to because the I I thought it was very clever how you responded to that with well

26:50 Once you're an adult, you can decide if you want to quit the training. And you had a trick. And you and you had hurdles for hitting that. You also gave him assignments Though to come back to the negativity Having dialogues and asking him questions to see the world more objectively. So assignments to have him write in English and explain why the sun and the police might be important for our existence. The use of celebrations. So I might I might ask you about this.

27:17 But having certain Milestones for him. where you would give him a certificate and then I think it was later on going to restaurants with his family and giving it to him in front of him. Also because his life, I suppose, seems so perhaps

27:32 to him uneventful up to that point, like nothing was happening. Maybe you could speak a little bit to that and then I'll jump into some of these others. Well, you know, his brain was virgin. Shoot. Nothing was there.

27:46 So He didn't have history. So he couldn't really Doc. About

27:53 Whatever he was doing. He was not doing it. So I uh I wanted to create Yeah. History. In his mind.

28:02 Create something, memory about something. One of the things was to Give him certificates for the breaking record. So whenever he broke the record

28:13 Then We Printed diploma. And I asked father to set up a dinner. Celebration.

28:21 And every time The A record was broken in the squad or merch press. We went for a dinner. During this dinner.

28:31 We gave him diploma. And some other people came And it was the celebration. Integen was. started liking this was like a a star and

28:42 Enough to About a year. I saw him, he started Talking about this. Celebration.

28:49 We talk about Mav. You talk about poems and So all of it. Said Becoming his

28:56 Memory. Is history. It was very important. And He also

29:03 Start liking Breaking record. He got crazy. Jumping. But that came.

29:12 Because you know, he wanted to be an adult. So Okay, so we're gonna we're gonna get to the Right. The adulthood that might come up. immediately. I also just want to give credit where credit is due to The parents and I don't know to what extent it was both parents or the father, but driving twice a week, how long was the community twin? So they were coming twice a week, uh about one hour and a half driving one way, so

29:39 They do have at least four hours. To come. Other was devoted. Very Kind.

29:47 Devoted. And Stoic. No, he was there all the time. And

29:57 Yeah. Couldn't really see any irritation. in him at all. Loved his son. That was very clear.

30:06 So um He was coming uh every time when he couldn't come. His mother brought him in. But it was For them four hours.

30:16 Drive and I discussed that. With the Jen and they How?

30:25 Devoted was his father. Ah. Eventually when we started Having conversation. Philosophical conversation, appreciative conversation.

30:35 I I do. Pass on him the appreciation of his Uh. Enlarge the imagination.

30:45 about his father if the father was not committed to that. For five years. To bring his son. Twice a week. And every time spends four hours and the money.

30:58 Then I don't Tejan, you wouldn't be who you are today. He help you.

31:07 What you are. You know, it was Interesting he was just Sometimes Look and you could see that he

31:15 Was thinking about something Sometimes he Like it. The most joy that I saw in him He was breaking the records and some videos and there

31:26 It was just like It's in the it's in the joyous. That is like when you see Children sometimes.

31:37 Very joyous. In that moment, that nothing else happens. And yeah, it was ecstatic, you know. It was So Pleasure to see. Yeah, we're like an athlete winning gold at the Olympics on the platform. Yeah, exactly.

31:53 Let's talk as promised about Responsibility and adulthood. Which was a Crafty. Strategy.

32:01 On your part? Could you speak to that? He Didn't want to play piano first. Then Because his he had been

32:10 Required to take piano. Oh you have to play piano and He didn't he didn't like to come to the Work out. Training. He didn't like the training. So he didn't like the piano and he didn't like the training. Yeah, and then he said I want to stop the

32:27 Yeah. And I said, Well, you know You're not an adult, so you cannot do it. Yeah. Somebody needs to decide for you.

32:36 But when you become another. You can. Stop the piano. You don't have to come here. But they w training.

32:43 Hm. I said well, you know And what is the adult, right? So we started discussing yeah, so what do you think? And we started discussing what is it really an adult So I said, Well you know, adult is independent.

32:57 What does it mean independent? Nine. Working, making money Living somewhere. Separately, and so on and so on.

33:05 But then I said, but there's other things, that We can consider you an adult. If you jump On it.

33:13 eighteen inch box. So he was Jumping at that time around eleven, twelve bucks. Eleven, twelve inches. Yeah.

33:23 He got so excited that And he thought that he can conquer it very quickly. And he was on a missionary this box, I tell you, now he was like The energy that was generated in him Mm-hmm.

33:38 Well, it's the same energy like in me when I was wanted to go to Olympics, right? I would run to the forest in uh two AM, whatever it was needed to do, I would do. And they would do with Lots of energy and then it's just Commitment and So he was committed.

33:58 Wanted to jump. But I knew that this ex Inches. It will take two years. Because my good progress is that he was not going to do it easily.

34:08 Bad. Yeah, we were on. And Well yeah, on and on. And then he came to I think about like seventeen something inches. He was so excited.

34:20 But then we ended up with some problems and Yeah to Here he's back because it's not so Simple to just jump on the eighteen. It's it's a ch was a huge challenge for the people.

34:34 Watch. The the documentary and I would have mentioned this in the introduction, but I made a a short link. Doesn't sound short, but easy to remember link that'll point you straight to it on YouTube. If you just go to Tim.blog slash hard choices.

34:50 If you go to Tim.blog slash hard choices, it'll take you straight to the doc. But when you watch the doc. And you look at digens before. What is motion? Motor control. Walking. looked like before and imagine him.

35:04 Jumping onto a seventeen inch box. It is unimaginable. when you look at the starting point. Really just Incredible.

35:14 Now I want to Hear you explain another development that I think it's just

35:24 so compelling and that is related to math. So he starts memorizing License plate numbers, you're also working with him on repetitions and building up some of that arithmetic muscle. How did he go from that? Two doing math. Five to six hours a day.

35:41 And having that. Fire. Lid with him. Well it was progressive, but it was progressive, but that's why I'm asking how did he get there? So first I

35:51 It's not really working on the counting. So he had to count from Until twenty.

35:57 Uh I just want to pause. To just Let people have that sink in for a second. Math five to six hours a day, which again

36:05 We're gonna talk about the journey. Like most people On twenty cups of coffee a day. Could not do five to six hours of mouth a day. I Ask him about the accounting.

36:16 First was the counting. That he couldn't count to twenty. So I said okay. Let's come to

36:22 Fifteen. Can you count to fifteen? So we count it Fifteen. When he got to fifteen. I said you go home.

36:30 And you start learning to count Twin. So he came back. And they test it here. Did you count to twenty? Yeah. So okay, count. So

36:39 Yeah. Counted. So then I Ah the addition.

36:43 How much is Five plus seven. He wouldn't know. So Homework. Doing homework. You learn how much is five by six.

36:51 Seven, eight, nine. All the calculation up to two and For the Adi. Then subtraction.

36:59 Division. Multiplication. All of it. Until you know the number ten or twenty. Then

37:06 Counting to thirty, forty, fifty, hundred. I wanna Got there. I don't Dot.

37:14 He needs our teacher. We need a tutor. Mathieu to And English to. He needs both.

37:22 So they High it's People do have. So I was testing. Of course.

37:29 But he had his tutors. So I think that It was a An amazing Additional.

37:38 To work on his brain. And I noticed the same story with other Crown policy people. Yeah. I have difficulties with math. Some of them that I

37:50 So that A I had good English. But Mav looks like uh difficulties. To

37:59 Eventually When he progressed with Energy. With bench press. Came to the certain point with in a year.

38:08 that he could press about hundred pounds. And that Gave him Enough energy That he could go to his computer.

38:21 And spend hours on A computer. To start it. He is elementary school.

38:28 He started actually elementary school. And you know, because He was not in elementary school, so he was twenty five years old when he's sick. So he joined us program.

38:40 Elementary school program. And he said You know, working Prove it. On his own.

38:48 And After two years he passed The whole Elementary school. Then he started high school.

38:56 Another two years. And he passed. Normal high school, I know like a normal The same program as other people do. And father said

39:07 Tajan is like on fire. is like it's two AM and he's still on his computer And he started like Eight PM and At two AM.

39:18 He's on his computer and he doesn't want to stop. Or something. In him awaken. And Powerful.

39:30 And at the same time he said Noticing that Who he was. As a person. That actually he was a person.

39:40 And he Was Cerebral pulse. And that generated a lot of negativity in him. A lot of

39:50 Uh to his father and mother and then he started really talking that he hates his mother and then he He did everything at that time. Yeah. Yeah. What did you notice?

40:04 Yeah And just to flash forward, right, I mean he's his father's reported that he's living an independent existence, taking care of his own needs, planning his own days, or does Uber rise to get to his classes, manages his own paperwork. So that's the after. What did you notice in terms of

40:23 How did you cultivate this if you did? I I don't know if you did this deliberately or if it was a byproduct of everything else, but emotional range. Or facial expressions. Did any of those Did any of that change over the course of the training? Emotionally.

40:38 He was Blank the same. For a long time. You mean in whatever circumstances. Yeah. Bad.

40:47 At certain point He's had been negative and expressing his negativity. And then he Made these moves and Couldn't see

40:58 Where he was, I was looking for where he was. But I address negativity is something that needed to be Thanks. So whenever he

41:10 Said that he hated something. I challenge it. Challenge it. In a way, why is it good? Right.

41:19 Well he was negative, but And then the white police is good. Why? The sun is good. Why the father is good, why the mother is good. So

41:28 Expanding and expanding imagination. Oh him. To facilitate this so he could fine in his mind Actually

41:39 acceptance that actually is a good thing. Is a huge Shit. In his Psych believing

41:46 And liking people. You never like me, I just like I don't like you. And he said I don't like you. How long did he say that for?

41:56 All the time. He has never liked me. So He'll celebrate and give you a high five for their training, but Still. I don't know even today if you like it. Probably not.

42:10 You know I created a lot of hard choices for him. So you know Uh he will come to this point that he may be like What I Done, maybe, but don't really mean.

42:26 Mm-hmm. Wow, that's kind of amazing. Well, you know what? Of course, of course. Could you talk about helping him or asking him to identify heroes? A bad. That also.

42:48 Stuck out to me. Did you provide a little bit of context to people on that piece of the bubble? already in elementary school. And he was The writing and essay.

43:00 About a hero. That was an assignment. Yes. And he wrote it. From school, not from you. Yeah, yeah, from school.

43:08 Because he already had a tutor, English tutor. So he was always proud that When he did something. He was bringing something and And reading me uh

43:20 Yeah Read it. So he wrote about Jingis Khan. And I said, Okay, so Is

43:27 You're kinda a hero? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I said, Well, why he is a hero? Uh he talked a little bit, and I said so.

43:37 Who is a hero? Well that created a philosophical proud. So we've And it up there, the hero is really risking Their own live. For others to save others.

43:52 But that's not Jingis on. So Jung was not that. He was a conqueror. But he was not a hero. And then At the same time.

44:01 I watched his movie about Admiral. Actually Korean I mean. About three hundred Japanese ships were coming to

44:10 Korea. to you know conquer that. And he With one ship and twelve. And he stood up to them.

44:20 And actually The twelve ships, you know, the the People didn't have a Want to fight. Wanted to surrender.

44:26 He said no. And he fought. And he fought. And these other twelve ships, you know, join.

44:33 The whole armada japanese armada Turn back. And I said. That is your hero. And I

44:40 And I said, That is your hero. From Korea. And you are going to Right. This SA.

44:47 But it's too late. It's not too late. You're going to go to your teacher. You tell the teacher. Why?

44:55 Jinke Shan was not a hero. And you want to rewrite the essay. Okay. I said okay. You go and do it.

45:05 And he did. And he re wrote The essay. The teacher agreed. I can see why he might not like you. You know, think about it. I w I was coaching him. I understand. She was jumping. She was lifting. And at the same time we did poetry, math English. Right. All of it together.

45:31 Wack. Why he wouldn't like me I don't know. Yeah. Well there's there are many reasons. But you know, uh one day he was he wanted to step on a six inch. Fox. I remember. And And he would not up just stepping one foot and uh like on the stair, right?

45:54 Was sick. Yeah. It was uh I don't know. And they're like uh couldn't make it. So I grab his shirt.

46:02 And Pull him. I've seen the video. And after about two times. I loved him and he was

46:10 Jumping on this box like One after another stepping one one one and so fast. Just amazing what the grain is. Get a little bit of help. And suddenly.

46:21 The door opens up. And is the progression is huge and fast. It's amazing. I tell you what I Uh what I was watching, what I learned During this process.

46:33 Wow. Even to this day I know that modern science has come to a greater appreciation of brain plasticity. And the malleability and adaptability and of course just as the Let's call it broadly speaking, this is a simplification, but the control center for the entire Body, right? The brain's job is to keep the body alive. So they're

46:52 They're dance partners. There is just so much room for improvement. And I mean, a lot of the science that I've supported has been related to this, but it This was the first time I'd ever seen

47:07 Such an amazing transformation. In some with Cerebral palsy that was so clearly and well documented also. And I wanna talk about next steps in a little bit.

47:20 expand this into a study. But Before we get there, can you speak to Training logic.

47:30 So that I think that was after about two years of already training with him, but working on his thought process using poetry. Why did you do that? He Couldn't really Read

47:42 The lines of poetry. And understand the Feelings, emotions behind. Then I started really

47:50 Doing them of the And Seeing whether he can Think Logically.

47:57 So I Tested him If A is B And B C So

48:04 Is a He's also C and and playing these games. And Slowly he So did

48:13 Not only being logical And I ask him about writing something about What is logic and Give me the example and

48:22 He would bring me. Was there logic or not? So it Tested that. And then added the map.

48:29 But the most difficult for him. Was to read uh Line of Poetry. And know the metaphor.

48:38 Not really what What was the meaning? The words not just the words. Yeah. And never a line.

48:45 S When I asked him to recite a To remember and recite a poem. You would recite the poem. And then we analyze the poem.

48:53 Every line. After Line after line. And what was what is the meaning, what is the feeling of the line? And that was

49:02 An amazing Possibility. For him. To learn the Language?

49:08 And the feeling At the beginning. He didn't have any clue. About

49:16 The feelings. What? Yeah. Actually written words express. When it comes to Phoenix.

49:24 Yeah when I Think about Your entire Coaching experience with Genum.

49:30 Struck by How many? Different levers. You were able to help him pull. But one that sort of met a lesson that pops out to me and I'd love for you to

49:41 correct this if I'm not thinking about it the right way. Is that He didn't respond to people. In conversation. Didn't have much of a response.

49:51 in part, and I'm projecting here. Because he didn't have The belief that he could. He had no history to support the belief that he could. And then

50:01 With physical movement. Similar. And you gave the example. I mean this is a very fast example, but of grabbing the shirt and kind of forcing him to do it. And then within a few repetitions you let go. And he's doing it on his own. And of course there's the progression over time.

50:16 But even with the poetry. And How you gave him assignments to practice public speaking. Without that.

50:25 he wouldn't have had the confidence to then speak, say in the within the more complicated context of school. With classmates. And things like that. I have to imagine.

50:35 But Yeah, I sometimes have listeners or readers ask me What can I read to develop more confidence? And I'm like, well. You can try to read to develop more confidence, but really you're not gonna fool yourself. You need to do things to develop. the history of doing things so that you have confidence.

50:53 Does that resonate or would you add Or reframe that some somehow. You know, yeah, of course, you know it What you say It's just in perspective, but

51:04 Like to Tell you about my perspective. Yeah. That's what I'm asking. You know, I showed a mind

51:10 The brain. As Something that needs to Find a way. forward and find a way around those

51:20 Patches. With that. And I saw it everywhere. I saw it In math.

51:29 When Yeah. What is two plus two, that is four. You struggle.

51:35 You know, for me to tie struggles. to find out what is two plus two. Eventually. The child knows. So there are certain connections already.

51:46 And then to plus free and so on. Okay. So development of mass. I so Crucial. Yeah.

51:53 Very important. Yeah. When I am not there, he can practice actually. Them off. By practicing the maf, we overcome this

52:05 Мене степ. Steps of Progression, the micro progression. And also That

52:12 Challenge. How's this plasticity of the brain? That that plasticity No, like I thought, okay, uh make him strong doesn't mean that something else is going to happen. Or Maybe I will not make him strong because the mafia is not developed.

52:29 So I So the connection between The squad the bench. The numbers. The words.

52:36 And uh believes. And philosophy. I show connections everywhere. And I created the Challenge the hard choices.

52:46 Every time. Everywhere. For me, you know Bench pressing Going from

52:53 Hundred pounds to one o Two. Was not different. Than to know what is Fiftien plus seventine.

53:04 It is If I know what is fifteen plus seventeen. He's in Nother thing that when it happens Something happened in the brain that

53:15 Was not there before. And I Started facilitating All this development of the brain.

53:26 That Well Be challenge. Develop. From different perspective. And I think that

53:32 The eventually the research Needs to be a Done. I try to understand what I've done because I've never really worked. Oh.

53:41 With person like that. Right. So I try to understand too. What happened there. How did it happen?

53:48 And whether there there is possibility even To replicate this. And how Yeah, so many people. Well.

53:58 Tajan's progress is Amazing, crazy. Amazing. Magical And if

54:06 That could be replicatable. Wow. We could help a lot of people. Well let's talk about it because before we start recording I was trying to get an idea of the rough number of Cerebral palsy diagnoses in the US. And you're based in

54:21 Northern California, so I wanted to get an ID in California. These are real back of the napkin rough. Internet responses, but it seems like let's call it. Roughly one million diagnoses in the US. Potentially and then

54:37 That could be occurrence and not diagnoses, but somewhere between a hundred and a hundred and twenty thousand in California alone. So this is a non trivial condition. It's very Prevalent. And

54:49 If you could develop A method, right? Through doing research. Develop a method. that you mentioned could be replicated. Could be taught to physical therapists.

54:58 Then This could have. Uh tremendous. Impact. On a wide scale.

55:05 And Maybe we could talk about what some of your thoughts are and I'm going to create a web form for people who want to. potentially indicate interest in certain facets of this. But what might the program? Look like.

55:19 How many patients would you have? What would it look like in practice to do a research project to determine if you can formulate a method that would be replicable or a template maybe with a little bit of tweaking here and there that physical therapist could use or others. Meantime I had some experience with other policy

55:37 Though. And You know, my approach is One. Dad.

55:44 I believe that Everybody. Can I do it? So it really does a mother For me.

55:52 It is there of a policy or not. If it's chronic fatigue. It can happen. If it's Hypermelasia?

56:01 The progress can happen. So We've said about policy. When we think about server policy people, they have different conditions, different beginnings. Yeah.

56:12 Most important is to find Where is the beginning? Where'd you start? Yeah. One the major thing because

56:20 Usually I think. That we One too much. It's not going to happen. So we need to find this

56:27 Very tiny thing. You remember Jewel In Hawaii. You've helped me to Go and

56:34 Coach for She was eighteen at that time and she Couldn't control Her head and Arms and legs.

56:43 So her Mother would hold her. And I would Try to find out where is the beginning with her. And she has

56:52 You know, and and it was moving and And I found out that I pointed to one. Place. I took a bowl.

57:02 Very close to her. Like about an inch. From her Yeah, arm and then fingers and And ask her to touch it.

57:12 And she's struggle. Struggle. And we found a way where actually she could touch it, and she was so happy. And she dodge. Oh, I have to send you these videos.

57:24 It's just I you know, it's just you can cry, you know, and you can see things like this. And her joy When she was doing it. So Also the map.

57:36 I found out that her mind was Very good with stories. You could Talk about some things and She loved the stories to listen to stories. But her map was not really different than dance.

57:49 There was like she could on the Count from One to ten. And then Adding

57:56 You know, two plus Five she would. And then we would start with it. So I see the math. It's major part of

58:05 That method. The physical is of course the beginning. The beginning is How strong do you are?

58:13 And how flexible they are. Flexibility is the Main Point here because the awkwardness Comes from both.

58:21 One thing that the brain the mind cannot control the spaces But those places also the the parts of the body became that way. So that's why awkwardness is Coming in. So

58:33 The physical And the physical improvement of the physical They can Engine themselves.

58:42 They can be in pain. And they have to those to who will facilitate their w need to know. How to start? How to use the micro progression.

58:53 How to Um Wrything down. Like Tejan knew all his numbers. He

59:00 Knew how to Measure the time of Five or ten jams and Okay. Right, all the

59:08 Jumps and broad To me to the gym. What he did his homework was Numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers. Not only the numbers of counting but also.

59:17 The numbers of measure. Mm-hmm. So would just to hop in for a second. I would love to help. Of course, that's part of the reason we're doing this conversation is to help facilitate Trying to create some type of template.

59:33 that can be applied to a lot of people with cerebral palsy. So the short link, not to bury the lead, the short link will just be Tim.blog slash CP and we'll have a web form for people who may want to help from an academic perspective, ideally in Northern California, somewhere within near driving distance, since you would want to be there, I think the thought is maybe twice a week with these Different folks, something like that. Yeah, I see that.

59:57 About maybe Five. Several policy people. And Meeting them twice a week.

1:00:05 Let's say Tuesday and Friday. And for one year. And uh add another Five.

1:00:16 So now it's ten. Another five. And do it for Five years. Record everything.

1:00:25 See how it works. Um bring therapies or others that could actually Watch, observe, and learn. And

1:00:34 I Believe. That this reputability Is possible. We need to test it.

1:00:42 We need to explore. Whether How is it? Really? Possible.

1:00:47 What can we actually do? When we have this. Twenty five people It could be that his it was Because I was there. But I don't want to say

1:00:59 That was because of me. Everything happened. It could be that Perfect storm happened. I was a math teacher.

1:01:06 I'm a poet. My weightlifter. So all of it. Uh It happened that I was this one person facilitating that. But when we do research we don't have to have one person.

1:01:22 We can have, you know, Math people. English And you know, uh philosophers And we can have trainers. We can

1:01:31 Create a center. And in that center. We can Think about how we can Progress.

1:01:40 How we can improve. And uh document everything. In detail. The same way. As I was doing, microprogression

1:01:51 is an amazing power. It strikes me also that With the right people involved. And with the right consistency. And I mean you might need a faculty member to Agree to spearhead it and then

1:02:05 There would be fundraising, which you know is pretty straightforward to figure out. And then they would have postdocs or people underneath them would help with recruitment, although I don't think that'll be a problem after this podcast. Patient recruitment.

1:02:19 and then making the trains run on time. But I could see A path, as I'm sure you've thought about this. Much more than I have, but where you could end up with something like a core curriculum of Principles.

1:02:32 that you're teaching and maybe you're recording video modules to explain these things to practitioners where it's like micro progressions. finding a place to start. What are different ways to find a place to start? And then perhaps there's certain things that won't. apply to everyone. So for instance, we didn't talk about we don't have to spend a lot of time on it, but Tai Gen was kind of crumpled. to the right side, right? So you had a ball.

1:02:54 hanging from the ceiling that you would have him reach up to touch to to help correct that. So there might be depression. core curriculum and principles and then sort of ancillary Principles and techniques that can be applied on a case by case basis, but then you end up with this Core curriculum. that people can learn remotely or something like that. I mean it's it's really exciting to think about.

1:03:17 I think that At this point I see that we can assess these people from Five perspectives, I think. Yeah. The physical perspective.

1:03:27 Now where they are physically. Um Where is the flexibility? Where is the strength? Math perspective. Language perspective.

1:03:37 Philosophy perspective. beliefs perspective where they are. So easily we can take the Psychology and then Psychologists and

1:03:47 develop certain ways of Assessing them. Were our beliefs. Right. In Mav is very clear.

1:03:55 Right. We need probably English teachers and they will Create very quickly curriculum to Find out. Where is the level?

1:04:05 of that. And then once we have Yeah, says okay. We have a physical problem that is eighty percent.

1:04:13 Math is only you know Three percent is not you know. The person is really good in math. In English as well. But we can have also

1:04:23 Yeah. Mafia's not there at all. And Walking is good. So there are all

1:04:29 Possibility How we can Us. From this five perspective, just be but yeah. But we need also

1:04:38 Explore and experience them. You not only one person to join because it's just only one person. Now we need to see Can we actually do if I Can we actually deliver what we delivered?

1:04:53 I mean, this is the scientific method, right? And you have such a fantastic starting point. It's an end of one, although you've well you've worked with more than one. Person with cerebral palsy at this point. But Let me just give the UL out again. So for people who might be interested, this is if you are at Stanford or UCSF or San Jose State or someplace that might be able to

1:05:16 help with this type of research if you are in a financial position and would like to support this type of research. go to Tim.blog slash CP or if you have other resources you want to bring to bear on this in some way. Tim.blog slash the letters CP standing for cerebral palsy. So Tim Tim.blog slash CP and just fill out the web form. I'm incredibly excited about this.

1:05:38 We covered a lot in our first conversation. We've covered a lot in this conversation. Is there anything else that you'd like to do? to mention or cover that we haven't Gotten to already. Today.

1:05:51 Uh. Well we uh we covered a lot, but I think one of the most important Yeah, thing is that And people can get help.

1:06:04 And If we have the right approach, we can Facilitate, create the Of course. They change.

1:06:13 We didn't change them. We have to remember that we are facilitators. We are not really Cultures that Created uh powerful human being, that actually powerful human being created.

1:06:27 Themselves. Yeah, we Have to create. A place. Where is athletically

1:06:35 A line. With athleticism. And not Yeah. On the

1:06:41 We know. Yeah, I see that. As soon as we care or we exercise without mission or Purpose or goals. Then we can exercise for ten years and never change.

1:06:54 So I sold his people Thousands of those people. It doesn't apply only to sort of a policy. Because it applies everywhere. Bad uh

1:07:04 With cerebral policy It's very interesting because they have this Situation in the mind, in the brain. That actually We could work with.

1:07:13 These are the Patches in the brain the We can Create uh Peripheral nervous system.

1:07:21 That actually goes around. We can create that fine. That plasticity of the mind we can create. I have a strong feeling. That This is

1:07:32 possible. I always believe that It can be done. I just created Challenge is constant challenges with the gen.

1:07:42 That could deliver. The results to change the why wanted. It has to be always the Where are you going? Right, we have it.

1:07:52 So for me, he had to walk. Straight. He had to walk soft. And For me

1:07:58 I would not sleep until I would get it. So We need devoted people. We need people that. uh devoted to this.

1:08:05 to these people to help them. Not just Physical therapy is that. What is the

1:08:11 Make my man go home. This is a huge challenge. These people Extremely challenging and we need to also challenge them. And by the Creating this challenge.

1:08:24 We can You're an amazing thing, actually. So It is not something that somebody is Has cancer.

1:08:31 And you will get worse. That's not the situation here. This is a very unique situation with Saravapasi people. Yeah. We have the situation that somebody is And some of this doesn't

1:08:43 Change. For worse. Somebody is like that. Can change for us too, because life happens. Bad.

1:08:51 Because People I like that. We have very Clear slate to begin with.

1:08:59 We are not dealing with ill people. Sick people. We're just dealing with people who Mechanically. Something happened.

1:09:07 To their brain. And Dad. Can create for us. Yeah, really.

1:09:14 Great beginning. And It could be. Yeah. We've

1:09:20 Almost any civil bossy. Something like this return to I wouldn't say They cannot return. Because

1:09:29 Many of them They are just that way. So they cannot return anywhere. But they can't improve. And become a

1:09:38 Like Democrats. The gen. That is Going to College from the person that

1:09:46 Was only Waiting for Food. And sleep. And couldn't go to toilet.

1:09:53 And was lethargic all the time. The life was like that for him and that life would be like that. Right. If nothing happened, what Actually we did.

1:10:04 He would be that person. And depart. Here's the parents. The parents I saw

1:10:12 Happy parents. But after three, four years. Yeah, actually. They were like a ticking bomb, you said, about intensity. Between this for you.

1:10:23 People, right? But about three or four years. I saw them happy. First time. Happy.

1:10:33 And That is enough. You know, to fight for. Right. To give everything whatever you have.

1:10:41 To create The happiness in this Three people. Cool. We're worrying all the time.

1:10:49 What will happen? If they die. What it will happen if something happened. Now they don't have to worry about it. Tajan is

1:10:58 You know. Completely independent. He is in college. Okay. Just

1:11:05 Imagine that. And A lot of that. I believe. Hundred percent.

1:11:11 It can happen with Everyone. Yeah, the happy body microprogressions when your philosophy is and philosophy might scar people off your principles can be applied to so many different things that you and Anella have developed over the years. Really wanna make this

1:11:27 research project happen. So folks if you're interested in any way Helping with that. In whatever capacity, you go to Tim.blog slash CP. And then also want to mention just like The way that you and Annella coach can be applied.

1:11:43 Most certainly to many different Conditions many different circumstances, all circumstances in some sense. I want to give a shout out to Jeff. Wolf, the director of Prisoner No More. I always ask everybody before I talk to them or do anything with them what would make it truly a home run.

1:12:00 And he just mentioned the bigger opportunity is to position prisoner no more. Not just as a standalone short, but as a proof of concept for a larger series. the vision is a slate under the same umbrella. So you could have prisoner no more for alcoholism, prisoner no more for fill in the blank, right? Which I think is also very exciting. So I h really, really hope people you gotta watch it. You gotta see what we're talking about visually. It'll just

1:12:26 A lot of you are gonna cry, I'm gonna tell you in advance. But it's good cry. So Check it out. Tim.blog slash hard choices in honor of Hard choice is easy life. Easy choices hard life. Check it out. You can find the happy body and more on Jersey and Annela's training. at thehappybody dot com.

1:12:49 And I'll link to everything in the show notes as usual at Tim.blog slash podcast. So If you're like that's a lot to remember, don't worry about it. Just go to Tim.blog slash podcast and search Jersey, not spelled like New Jersey, but spelled J E R Z Y. And trust me, there's only one jersey on my website. It's Jersey Greg Rick. Jerzy, thank you so much. For the time. It's always

1:13:12 Great to see you. Thank you, Tim. Everybody thanks for listening. We'll grab a bite to eat tonight or the with the with the with the whole gang and Everybody Who has tuned in as always. I appreciate you.

1:13:26 Till next time, be just a bit kinder. Then it's necessary. To others and to yourself. But Not just comfort.

1:13:34 Don't just make yourself feel better. Don't just eat that cheeseburger. And watch reality TV on Netflix. Challenge yourself. Wherever you happen to be, you can make progress. You can make amazing progress. You just need to find the right Starting point. And for that reason, check out thehappy body dot com. Listen to my first conversation with Jersey on the podcast as well.

1:13:56 Until next time. Thanks for tuning in. Hey guys, this is Tim again, just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun for the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading. albums perhaps gadgets gizmas all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends including a lot of podcast guests and these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun again it's very short

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1:17:15 And people with kids and dogs have been telling me all about it. I put out a note on social asking how people liked it, if they liked it, and the response was kind of mind blowing. Not only because the comments were overwhelmingly exuberantly positive, but my phleb. I got texts from nearly a dozen friends telling me how much they love their Matic. So that was a first. So to quote another media outlet, The Verge writes, This wallie like bot fixes the stuff every other robot vacuum gets wrong. And there are tons of people involved with this, who I respect a lot. We've got Silicon Valley Legend of Al Rabakot and Shopify CEO Toby Ludke. They love theirs. As I mentioned, they're investors, and my friend Kevin Rose has been raving all about it. The list goes on and on. Let's check it out.

1:17:58 See what all the buzz is about. Go to maticrobots.com slash Tim. That's M-A-T-I-C. robots.com maticrobots.com slash Tim today and experience the closest thing to a house that cleans itself. New customers get free bags, one more time. Maticrobots.com slash Tim

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