Transcript

Most Replayed Moment: Neuroscientist’s Proof Of Life After Death! Dr Tara Swart

0:00 Uh So your husband Robin. You met him Two thousand sixteen?

0:11 And he passed he passed away from leukemia in Twenty twenty one. Twenty twenty one. Now from twenty twenty one, when he passed away, what what happened in your life? What was going on in your world? If I was a fly on the wall in your context, what would I have seen? He'd been given two weeks to live, but he actually lived for three and a half weeks. And he died two days before our fourth wedding anniversary, so

0:36 I was literally reading condolence cards on my fourth wedding anniversary. If it wasn't for the people that I have around me who became like a fortress I don't think I would be here today. you know, never having had that experience before, it was just so, so devastating. Um

0:54 And even though I'm a neuroscientist and a psychiatrist. I just I just was like like Totally lost and broken. And then

1:06 I started seeing robins in the garden every single time I went to the window. both in Hampshire and London. I've never ever seen so many Robins in my life. Like not before or since. I still see them sometimes, but I noticed it. I thought Of course, that's what I want to see.

1:23 I have no idea what it means, if anything. Um And then about Six weeks after he passed away. I was asleep.

1:35 And I heard a noise in the distance and we had been burgled once, so I went to check it wasn't the alarm in the garages. Couldn't work out what it was, thought maybe it was birds in the distance, went back to sleep. It was about four AM. And then I got woken up.

1:50 By a massive thump to my shoulder. I I wouldn't demonstrate it on you because it would be too much for me to hit you that hard. It wasn't like a tap. So open my eyes. And

2:02 I could see next to my bed. A very vague, hazy version of Robin as if he was pushing himself through Treacle to be seen. And I was just transfixed. And I saw him become more and more clear. I could see the outline of his hair and his face.

2:20 And then suddenly he just dissolved from the top down and my eyes went like this and I remember seeing his shins and his feet. And I was like up on my elbow. watching and I j I just gasped out loud. In my desperation. I did consult a couple of media.

2:37 And again, I had that dual conversation. I said to myself This is the kind of thing that crazy, desperate people do. And Within the same breath. It's okay for me to be crazy and desperate right now. I've lost

2:50 My best friend, my life partner, like My everything I thought about how the world worked has crashed around me. And I ended up think, you know, being not being impressed by the mediums and Just at some point, I can't even remember when now, thinking

3:06 If it's possible to communicate with someone that's Passed away. And he was my husband and my best friend. And I am all about optimizing my brain and expanding my consciousness. Then I should be able to do it myself.

3:20 That's That's the start of my journey that I've written about in the science. And do you think you found the answer? Yeah. How sure are you? Hundred percent. I mean if if if what you're saying is true then

3:36 That's a pretty I mean that's a revelation, right? So many people have lost Lost people or Um have gone through different types of loss in their life. And i you're telling me that through

3:47 the work you've done over the last couple of years and the research you've done. You understand how to communicate with them in some capacity? Mm-hmm. And you're one hundred percent sure. So listen, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna

4:01 I'm gonna I'm gonna challenge you in ways that I think um The viewer might challenge you set at home. So I'm gonna try and ask the questions that the viewer might ask because there's you know people The I this idea is quite a significant perspective shifting one. So m my job in this conversation, although these are sensitive matter matters of course, is just to try and play devil's advocate where I can.

4:24 And I just I want to say that, you know, you know me and you know that you've asked me to come back on the podcast several times and I've come when I'm ready. Yeah. So I want you to ask me those questions. Yeah. So when does this journey begin then? So th this You suffer this tragic loss in your life. You go to the mediums

4:41 You're let down by them. Where does this begin? Where does your research, your your journey of discovery begin? It starts with this decision to um You know, try to communicate with him.

4:55 Myself. There's a realisation at some point that it's not a one way thing, that when people pass away they also have to learn. So it's it's It's like Two people having to learn a language to speak to each other, like two people who speak a different language. Having to learn.

5:11 A language that they can both speak. That's that's how it felt. Obviously as a scientist, I then wanted to find out as much science as I could to to try to back it up, which really comes down to the science of whether The mind or the psyche or the soul can exist separately from the body.

5:29 Mm. And I will say that way before I even started thinking about this stuff, just the m the moment that he died, which he died in front of me. Once he'd actually passed away. I remember a really strong feeling of looking at his body and just knowing that wasn't him. And that the essence of who he was, I don't know where it was, but it was not there lying in that bed.

5:50 And when did you Realised that you were going to start to collect research and do research on this idea of being able to communicate in ways that most people don't realise we can communicate through signs. And also when you talk about being able to communicate through These

6:06 Thirty plus senses. Is that just with the dead, or is that with each other? Like can I communicate through uh you know, is there other ways that I can tap into these senses that you discovered through your research? That will help me be more effective with the living, too. I mean I think it starts with yourself. So I think

6:25 The the fact that If you're not even aware that you've got thirty four senses, then you're obviously not consciously tapping into Something that you're not aware of. And and some of them are non conscious senses anyway. Um, things like the pH of your blood, or like the balance of oxygen and carbon dioxide in your blood. You're you know, you're not gonna be

6:42 Conscious of those, you can't necessarily exert much control over them, although obviously if you slow down your breathing or you do a certain type of breath work, it it could have an impact on those things. The conclusion that I came to. So like I said, I went to the brink a few times. I went to the brink Let me give you the first example.

7:00 I realised that the first anniversary was coming up on October twenty sixth. And Around, you know, a couple of months before that, I was doing the best that I had been doing so far, but I was very aware this anniversary was coming. And I wanted to prepare myself mentally.

7:16 But from the fourth of October. I suddenly like was in aches and pains all over my body. Which actually lasted for six or seven weeks and was accompanied by me feeling So depressed. That I actually had to look in the mirror and like go through the criteria for clinical depression and work out.

7:34 I was actually depressed or not. Um And I didn't meet all the criteria, but it was in this physical pain. I could not understand why I I went for a massage, it was so painful I didn't go again for a year. So eventually I look through my

7:49 Um diary on calendar on my phone. And I looked back to October fourth, which was the day that it started. And that was the day that I'd taken him home to die. That was the day I took him home from hospital. I didn't remember that date. But clearly my body had and the trauma was just reemerging as like physical pain.

8:07 Um And I only realised quite a lot later that I had to to do some somatic work to actually get rid of the last bits of trauma that um talking therapy can't actually get to.

8:18 Somatic work. So body body work. Whether that's massage or uh dance or art or cranio sacral therapy or Tai chi, you know, like anything physical. Because basically

8:31 There's an area in the brain, it's actually inside, so I can't really show it to you on this, but it's kind of inside Yeah. And That part of the rain is to do with articulating speech. And it basically gets shut down by trauma.

8:44 So those sort of phrases like I'm speechless or I'm dumbfounded or I have no words indicates the fact that there may be residual trauma that's held in your body that you can't actually articulate and get out and solve through talking therapy. So it requires some kind of physical therapy. So that was obviously to do with my Um

9:03 Sense of pain. And it took me a little while to kind of put together what that might mean by really like tapping into why was my body Um manifesting pain to to sort of remind me of something or show me something. But also in the first couple of weeks after

9:20 Um Robin's body. Robin's body was taken away the morning after he died. And it was uh Just under two weeks till the cremation. In that time.

9:31 I would wake up in the morning and I would be absolutely freezing cold, like shaking and shivering. And it was October, it wasn't like mid winter. And I would blast up the heating. when someone else was in the house, I would realise it it was like a sauna. It was actually a bit embarrassing and had to like, you know, turn it down and like open some windows. And

9:50 Robin actually hated being cold. And he would have been in the morgue in a refrigerator drawer that whole time. And again, I think it was my sense of temperature. That was kind of on the same wavelength as where

10:03 I didn't consciously think of where he was. But I was feeling freezing cold. So it was Looking back, it was things like that that were coincidences, absolutely. But then

10:14 over time, and I'm talking a couple of years. I could ask for specific signs and get them. Sometimes at first it would take a while and then it became like it would happen that day. I could ask a question in my head and get an answer. I mentioned having, you know, sort of again being at the brink of my sanity, having to question things.

10:32 I was experiencing something called thought insertion, which um in psychiatry is one of the symptoms of schizophrenia. It's when you have a thought in your head that you know isn't yours. So I was experiencing that really vividly. But can you imagine experiencing that and at the same time being a psychiatrist that is is saying, Right, Tara, you do realise you are having Pike.

10:54 a psychotic symptom. And So in my research, one of the things I realised that maybe, you know, if you're going through grief and you don't know the things that I know You can't Articulate to yourself that grief in many ways is like psychosis.

11:09 It's changing the levels of neurotransmitters in your head. It's changing the electric electric and chemical like signaling in your head. I just have so much empathy for people that that have to go through that and don't have the wherewithal or the resources that That I did.

11:25 Do you think one needs to cultivate their ability to see signs? Do you think it's like going to the gym? Totally. Totally. I've it took me years. Um and like I said, I believe it took him years as well.

11:36 Um So yeah, I I say it's like learning a language, but you're right, it's like going to the gym. And what does one need to do in that gym? To grow the Sine muscle.

11:47 Well it always starts with believing, right? Yeah. Um Do you think that's w one of the big issues w in terms of being able to access these other dimensions or dynamics. Is most people just don't believe in it. So I wouldn't I'm not even sure if I'd say most people, I'd say a lot of people don't believe in it. Well, they secretly do, but they're scared to talk about it'cause they think people ridicule them.

12:08 Yeah. 'Ca'cause it I don't know, my my brain my brain feels like I need to have the scientific evidence of things for me to accept them because I think sometimes I worry that if I don't have Scientific rigor around my beliefs then. I would I'm susceptible to believe anything.

12:24 And I'll believe it in a spaghetti monster at the bottom of the garden, and I'll believe you know, every religion in the world and every and everything, and then I'm unanched and then I blow around like a plastic bag in the wind and then I have no orientation. Yeah. So I think okay, rigor is The basis of my beliefs. I have to have some sort of scientific evidence. I know you do. Yeah.

12:43 Um It's not to say I'm not open minded, because I've had my mind changed so many times in my life that one would be Dumb now to not be open minded and to not listen. I agree with you about rigor. I completely agree with that. My entire career has been based on that. But I just yeah, you know, I was pushed up against a wall, so I had to think differently. And I think

13:03 The question I pose to myself is is what if You had to think differently. So um the psychologist Carl Jung w talks about um when he talks about the collective unconscious, he talks about those Basically three main things that all humans experience, which is birth, life and death.

13:20 And so we have this common experience. which is actually part of our inherited gene and brain structure. Um so everyone who's ever lived will experience those things. But if we look at ancient wisdom

13:34 For a start We are made of the carbon and hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen that came from the big bang. So we're all made of the same thing. Our ancestors lived in the cycle with nature. I think us actually having broken our connection to nature is a huge part of why we're so disconnected and unhappy. So if you think of the life cycle of a salmon, for example

13:55 It's You know It goes through its life cycle and eventually its bones contribute to the phosphorus on the um floor of the forest.

14:04 So it never really goes away. Um In many other ways our ancestors repeatedly saw the cycles of nature, and therefore the always kind of new that everything gets renewed and nothing ever completely goes away. And

14:17 I think that's a really important thing to return to. I think You know, when we question things which you're absolutely right to do I think we have to look at things that we didn't think were true, that we now know are true. as just ways of being open to the fact that Things in the future might become

14:36 Obvious or known. That aren't known now. I think that is an important place of being open minded to to sit at. And so for example

14:47 Um Want to hear about slime mould? You tell me if that's something I want to hear about. So Slime mold are single celled organisms like amoeba.

14:59 Who go about their daily life on their own, very happily, as long as their basic needs are met. But if for example they're facing potential starvation. They will come together.

15:11 And form a slug. Because the slug can move towards your vegetable patch, you know, a new food source, and they can survive. Equally, if they are if They are facing potential um extinction. They will come together and form

15:28 A a swaring body like a mushroom. So that's gotta stalk. And a fruiting body. that can release four, that will go into the atmosphere to all different places where these new baby organisms can can grow and thrive. But if you think about it.

15:44 The Single cells are sacrificing themselves for the greater good,'cause there's no chance that their they're going to get released into the atmosphere as a spore, because they're in the stalk. So some of them actually cheat and climb up the stalk to get into the fruiting body and displace other cells from the fruiting body.

16:04 So things like that. And for example, the mycorrhizal network, which is how Mushrooms and mycelium. feed the roots of trees. Even trees that have been felled.

16:16 can be kept alive for centuries. Because the my mycorrhizal network, which is the connection between mycelium and tree roots Can bring water and sugar. to that tree stump to keep it alive. And trees and mycelium don't even only do it for the same species. They do it because

16:33 They're part of the entire forest and its symbiotic relationship. And They care about each other. Things like this would have been like thought to be fantastic.

16:44 Ten years ago. Um You know, but we're in L in LA at the moment and I saw the driverless car for the first time. Now when I was growing up watching sci fi I never thought I'd see that in my life.

16:57 So that's all I'm saying that And and I'm saying it from the point of view of being a cognitive scientist, and I'm talking about the nature of consciousness. I'm not talking about other Not asking you to believe, you know, other parts of science, but Based on the fact that

17:12 We don't know everything. We've learnt loads of things that we thought weren't true before. I strongly believe there's a benefit to humanity. of raising this kind of question. And having this conversation. Which

17:27 I ask you why it's a taboo conversation. What You know, why shouldn't we be enlightened? Why shouldn't we feel better? Why shouldn't we be more connected? Whatever we've been doing up until now certainly hasn't been working. When when was it that you made the decision that you were going to write a book about This called the signs.

17:46 Was there a particular moment in this process where you realised that you were going to dig deeper and that Then you are ultimately gonna share this with the world. I wasn't intending to write a book at all, but I'd got to the point where I had something that I could share with people that I actually thought would be useful. And at this point you're communicating with Robin. On a daily basis. On a daily basis. Yeah. Give me some colour to that. What does that mean?

18:08 Give me some examples if you can. Well either will be the like I'll ask a question in my mind and the answer will come in my mind, but I know it's not my own thought. Mm. I'll just get a direct like message from him in my mind that I know isn't me, but mostly it's the signs. So I've t talked to you about the first anniversary and how hard that was. By the time of the second anniversary, um

18:33 I was actually in America. And I'd been Filming in studio for a week and then I was on the road on the Navajo Nation And that was due to I was due to fly out of the Navajo Nation on the second anniversary of Robin's passing. And

18:50 On by that point I was feeling a bit like I'd completely burnt out. And I had a choice about how to re emerge. Um, you know, whether that was gonna be in a good way or I wasn't gonna be able to make it. Um And I had this analogy of a Phoenix rising from the flames in my mind. So On that trip

19:11 I said Darling. Send me the sign of a phoenix. You said that to who? Robin in my head.

19:19 And I s I chose the Phoenix'cause it's really unusual. So it's not like if I said you know, a dog, I'm probably gonna see a dog on the pavement every day. I chose something that Is not an easy thing to see. And I was actually in Oklahoma City where You know, you wouldn't expect

19:36 necessarily to see like something unusual. Every single day between my hotel and the studio. I went through Chinatown and I passed a restaurant called the Phoenix Garden with a big emblazoned like you know sign. And On the way there, I had had an indirect flight from Boston, and the flight leaving Boston was late, so I missed my connection in Chicago.

19:56 And I had to spend a night in Chicago. And then I was you know, late for filming and stuff. And so when I was leaving To go to LA. I was leaving on a s on a Sunday.

20:10 And from the Monday onwards I had a podcast every single weekday in LA. And so the team said to me, We know that you cannot miss that flight. We are not going to put you on an on an indirect flight. We absolutely promise you direct flight to LA, so you're fine from Monday onwards. We were in the middle of nowhere for like a week. And Basically my flight wasn't booked'cause we didn't know which airport we were going to be at.

20:33 We arrived on the eve of the anniversary of Robin Passing, and And my flight was booked that day. And it was from Flagstaff in the Navajo Nation to LA. Flying on the day of his anniversary. No direct flights.

20:46 I had to fly through Phoenix, Arizona. On the day of his anniversary. You've probably heard of that. old analogy of when you buy a car, you end up seeing the car everywhere on the road. Like I buy buy a new car and then I go everywhere and it seems like everybody's got my car because of uh do they call it confirmation bias in science and psychology? Where once you've got something in your head, you're more likely to see that thing. I think they've done studies on this where If you are exposed to something or you're told to think about something, then you'll see it more in the world. How do you separate what you're saying from that

21:16 proven psychological phenomenon. I don't. I say use it to your advantage. But how do you know that wasn't what was happening in your life? Because if you thought about the word Phoenix and then Over the course of a couple of days. You're looking at everything but you're only gonna register the things that are emotionally reg

21:32 Resonant. You know, I might have seen Phoenix a lot of time over the last seven days, but it means nothing to you. Yeah, I wasn't I didn't register it. Again, I would say the number of times this has happened, the s the sort of like How narrow I make the criteria. So, you know, sometimes I say

21:50 I need to see A button or a symbol of a button. or the word button, but it's got to have happen three times by eleven PM tomorrow. Um, and one of my friends says that, you know, we share something which is if you see a pair of lions. Um and we send each other pictures of it. But she says it has to be if you went out of your way

22:10 And you walked a different way and then you saw them. If it's like you know, the normal way that you go or somewhere that you know that they exist. That doesn't count. It has to be if you went out of your way. So I had a previous um thing with Robin, which was about the figure of eight or in the infinity symbol. Um, and there's a story in the book of how that was cropping up for me when I actually met him. But there was a day recently where

22:32 I had some spaced I had three spaced out meetings in the day, so I thought I'd take the opportunity to walk for an hour between them all. And for the last meeting of the day I ended up walking past um U C H, which is University College Hospital. where he was having treatment.

22:51 And that had been a really traumatic time for me when he was in hospital there. And I have I will have to say I kind of avoided that area since then. I'll tell you about a particular story that was like really traumatising for me. Um

23:05 So on this walk. to um where I was going for the evening for a book launch event. I end up walking past the hospital. And I and I actually said in my head, like Why would you make

23:17 that happened to me, like why Why do I have to walk past that building? I never want to see that building again in my life. And again I said you have to send me a sign. And um by the time I got to Euston station, so you know, you can People who don't know can Google this, it's not very far.

23:33 There was an elastic band in the figure of H sig on the pavement and That means something to me. Um So the thing about this this confirmation bias thing is it it's dependent on the reticular activating system. Which is the system of your brain.

23:49 that filters out what's not crucial to your survival and fin filters in what it wants you to notice. And So Actually. One of the things I've written about in the book is the art of noticing.

24:04 Because really we live in this world where the li you know, life is passing you by at a hundred miles per hour. You're not noticing things that could actually be crucial to you thriving rather than you just surviving. And in this model called shared trait vulnerability.

24:20 Which falls under the field of um research called neurosetics. So basically Creativity is a positive personality trait, right? Mm-hmm. But there is a a high correlation between creativity and psychopathology, which is mental illness. particularly depression, schizophrenia, and alcoholism.

24:40 And there are quite a few high profile examples of um creative people who had mental illnesses like Alexander McQueen Kirk Bane Van Gogh. So What that should.

24:52 Of Three particular ways of thinking that are underpinned by neurology. That

25:02 Are the reasons that people with Mental illness are so creative. And They are basically Um

25:11 Hyperconnectivity. So that's That's two things. That's joining the dots. in the material world of things that aren't obvious to other people. But it's also hyperconnectivity inside the brain. So if you think about all these lobes.

25:25 If you think about all these loaves. The more lobes that are firing at the same time. And there's also a cortex that's known as the association cortex. So that one Yeah, these f lobes can be firing, but they're not necessarily connecting up with each other. The more interconnected All this firing is in the brain. The more the brain

25:45 opens up to new ideas. So that underpins creativity. And also this usually really involves the visual cortex, which is in the occipital lobes. And that's why sometimes people whether it's through psychedelics or, you know, sort of m sort of altered states of consciousness through creativity can can see things that they didn't see before. There's also something called novelty salience, which is noticing new things, um, or just noticing things of importance that you would otherwise

26:13 have filtered out. And there's something called um attenuated latent inhibition or low latent inhibition, which is to do with that filter. And it means that the filter allows more things in than it normally does. Mm-hmm. So you can see we've got hyperconnection.

26:29 You've got noticing more things and we've got the filter like loosening and allowing more things in. Now if you've got a high IQ High working memory. And you've got cognitive flexibility, which is you can think You know, out of the box.

26:44 That's a really good thing. If you've got a low IQ, you've got deficits in your working memory. And you've got what's called perseveration, which is you just go over the same thought process process over and over again. That can lead to you having a psychological crisis. So I took that model and thought

27:02 If grief is like psychosis and I'm currently in a very vulnerable state Is creativity a conduit for me to get not only back to the state that I was in before, But into a state of expanded awareness where I can loosen the filter as I choose. As I choose fit. I can notice things that I would have passed by.

27:22 Before And I can think differently about how my mind works, how the world works. possibly what happens. After someone passes away. And then I went and, you know, looked into near death experiences and terminal lucidity and dark retreats. Like I said, I went down a rabbit hole.

27:39 And what did you find in that rabbit home? At the border of life and death Usually Within one to twenty four hours of death Someone who has

27:50 whose brain hasn't been functioning, who can't remember the names of their own children. suddenly becomes completely lucid and says, Stephen Darling, come over here, let me, you know Let's have a nice like mother son chat. And then That gives a lot of people hope.

28:05 But usually that means it's an hour or twenty three hours till the person's going to die. We can't explain that. How can a brain that's irreversibly damaged suddenly function completely normally. There is no explanation for that. With the near death experiences.

28:20 I was particularly compelled by three stories. Doctor Mary Neal. an orthopedic surgeon. She's in that Netflix documentary, Surviving Death. She was submerged underwater for fifteen or twenty minutes, she should never have been able to be resuscitated. She describes her whole journey of going to another realm, seeing, you know, a being of light.

28:42 being told that her life isn't over, she has to turn back and return to the physical world, even though she could see her bloated body and her friends trying to reach her to resuscitate her and they couldn't. Doctor Eben Alexander who wrote Proof of Heaven. He is a doctor. He was an atheist. He was in a coma with bacterial meningitis and was pronounced clinically dead, but

29:05 And then basically came back and said that he saw heaven. And he now believes in a God that is benign, that cares about the future of humanity. So for me as a doctor Hearing these stories from other doctors was really, really convincing. And then there's one story that um Dr. Bruce Grayson told me, he's a professor of psychiatry at University of Virginia.

29:27 who has done fifty years of research into near death experiences. And he told me the story of a patient in ICU. who kept going into Cardec arrest. And he had a primary nurse, she was a young, um, twenty year old nurse, and they had a really close bond. And one weekend she was she had time off for the weekend and he had a

29:50 Different nurse looking after him. And he went into cardiac arrest and he had a near death experience. And in that near death experience He saw his primary nurse. She said to him, Your life isn't over, you have to go back.

30:04 And get better. And please tell my parents I'm sorry about the red MG. So he wakes up in ICU, he's got this replacement nurse looking after him. And he says the strangest thing just happened. I

30:18 Um had this experience of being in this other world. I saw um my primary nurse And she said I had to come back, and she also said tell my parents sorry about the red MG. So the temporary nurse Starts.

30:32 Burst into tears, runs out of the room. He has no idea why. Someone comes in and says what's just happened, he explains And they tell him That his primary nurse was given a red MG for her twenty first birthday.

30:46 Took it out for a test run. crushed it into a tree. and died. Now he didn't know she was dead. But he saw her on the other side and she told him to come back.

30:58 And the guy that told you this story was Who relevant to the patient, who said that? Doctor Bruce Grayson, he um has done fifty years of research on near death experiences. He's got over five thousand recorded cases of patients of his own. that he's looked after that have had near death experiences and

31:17 He also shared with me with me the numbers of of Uh cases that other people have on databases. So You know, we're looking at over ten thousand cases globally recorded at the moment.

31:28 What is it that you believe based on those near death experiences like the Red M G story? And Based on This phenomenon. Of terminal lucidity.

31:40 So Professor Alexander Bathiani, who wrote Threshold about terminal lucidity, put it really nicely when he said Maybe at the border of life and death. We see something that is true all along. But we don't for whatever reason, see it or acknowledge it whilst we're alive and well.

31:58 Which is that the mind and body can operate. Independently of each other. It is quite it is quite shocking. There's this case from two thousand and nine. An eighty two year old woman with Alzheimer's disease.

32:11 who was nonverbal and non responsive and had no apparent recognition of her surroundings or families for years. And then one day before her death, she suddenly sat up in hospital, looked around and recognised her daughter by name, spoke clearly. Reminisced about the p past. Thanked her family for caring for her. Her speech was coherent, her memory was intact.

32:31 And her personality recognizable. As though she had never been ill. She fell asleep that evening and died peacefully during the night. Mm. And what do you think's happening there?

32:41 What do you think's happening there? It's possibly, you know, partially explained by a a surge in neurochemicals, but it's not explained by How can those neurochemicals act if the physical neurons and synapses are damaged. There there is no explanation. The only explanation Is that the mind is not emergent from material.

33:01 Matter it's not the the mind. The thoughts, the emotions, the psyche. Emerging

33:10 From physical matter, that's the only explanation from what we understand so far. And so what is it that you now believe? You believe that our souls and our bodies are two separate things? Mm-hmm. And where does Our soul live if it's not Living inside of me. So like where is Robin?

33:27 Mm-hmm. So I believe that, you know, whether whether you want to call it the universe Consciousness, um collective consciousness, Godhead. Cosmic soup. I don't The word for it isn't important. There's there's somewhere

33:42 That that energy goes and it still exists in some form. And if you believe in reincarnation, then you may believe that it then enters another body as a vessel and You know, has a different life. Um But

33:57 It doesn't go away. How do you know? I'm gonna say something that you're I know you're not gonna lie, but I know because I feel it personally. I feel it from I feel it like with the person that I've been closest to in my entire life.

34:14 Who I know would never leave me if they didn't. Absolutely have to. But I can back that up. To the extent of I can I can say you can't prove that this isn't true.

34:25 I can back that up with everything that I put in the book. And I'm not the only one. doctor David Eagleman at Stanford, says you know, this idea of the brain being like radio. and receiving signals from outside. We can't prove it, but we categorically cannot say it's not true.

34:42 Professor Donald Hoffman. suggests that space time is not the basis of how the universe works, suggests that consciousness is the basis of how the universe works. We can't prove that's not true. And I find that really exciting. I mean As a scientist You're supposed to challenge the status quo, you're supposed to be curious.

34:59 You can't as a scientist believe that everything we know now is all there is. There's no point to being a scientist if that's what you believe. What you just listened to was a most replayed moment from a previous episode. If you want to listen to that full episode, I've linked it down below. Check the description. Thank you.