This guy made millions by inventing the McFlurry & the $1 Menu

0:00 All right, Sam, I got a uh Billy of the Week for you. I'm excited about it. I got Goosebumps thinking about this guy. He's an inventor. He's an innovator. Yeah.

0:09 Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Thomas Edison. Look, if those guys were going on a road trip. But there's only one set of keys. They would toss it to this guy. He would get to drive. And his name is Tom Ryan. I feel like I can rule the world of no way

0:23 What I want to I'll put my law in it like my day's off on the road, let's travel, never lose. Tom Ryan is basically the Leonardo Da Vinci of calories. Okay. This is a guy who has invented some of the most iconic Foods. In history. He invented the McGriddle. He invented stuffed crust cheese pizza. He invented um

0:46 Smash Burger, the chain. He invented the beef dip sandwich at Quiznos. He invent his guy has just been inventing things in the food category. The McFlurry. He's just been inventing things for, you know, just decades. And he is like the godfather of food science. And so I want to tell you A little bit about this guy. Dipping a sandwich in Azou, I didn't think that was like an invention. And so Okay, so some of these things I'm using the word invention. A little liberally, right? Some of them he genuinely invented, meaning like Nobody had done that before.

1:17 Some of it is He created that product at that company. Which had was not previously a product. And so sometimes it might be like, Oh, well, you know, somebody else had had the idea of You know, a sweet. Okay, but cool. He he invented the McGriddle. It's a specific thing that he invented that made it work, and here's why. But can we can we start by a me asking, how did you even discover this?

1:38 Were you like on the Mick Riddle Wikipedia page? Just you know when you're eating something. And it's so good. You're like, I like to pay homage. Who's the man who invented this? I'd like you to put some flowers on his tombstone. That's not exactly what happened. I saw TikTok about this guy and I was like, there's no way one guy did all this. Okay. Alright, so this guy basically he

1:58 goes to college and when he's at college he has his girlfriend. The girlfriend's taking a food science class. So she convinces him to take it. He goes there. And immediately falls in love. He's like, Oh my God, I didn't even realize there's a whole science behind Things like ketchup and ice cream like There's literal like chemistry science, but then there's also sort of the brain science, psychology, the tongue science.

2:19 of like what flavors work. And so then he d not only t studies food science He then gets a master's in something called lipid toxicology, right? So this guy's just studying like the science of fat. And I would say this guy's like, you know I don't know what the what the equivalent of the Nobel Priest Prize is, but for like obesity, this guy deserves. So he um he des so he goes and he gets a job at at Duncan Hines, he then works at Jif and he's like pioneering a lot of their peanut butter work that he that you know does some some really great peanut butter work. The best work.

2:51 Yeah, he's like, you know, these open AI researchers that are just getting poached from lab to lab. That was him, going from Heinz Food Lab to the JIF Food Lab. And then he gets the call from Pizza High. And They recruit him as head of new products'cause he's got this reputation. 'Cause he even at Jif he was launching new products and so he gets this reputation as being like this sort of mad mad genius. And his friend tells him when he gets the job at Pizza Hut.

3:14 For head of new products. He goes, dude, I'm so sorry. Because what? He's like, that's a tough position, man. Everything's already been done in pizza. Like you're doomed. You're doomed to fail. Pizza's a solved problem. And he there's a quote from he goes, That pissed me off. He goes he goes, It pissed me off not because they the guy was doubting me, but because a lot of the world thinks like that. They think the world is full of solved problems. I don't think like that.

3:39 I think there's always an opportunity. So he goes into the research and he's doing research and he's like, All right, what do consumers care about when it comes to pizza? And he's like, All right, two things are very clear to me after studying how people eat pizza. Number one Cheese is the value driver. The more cheese, the better the cheese. Um, the better. And there's really no limit to the amount of cheese that people are willing to have in their pizza. And second

4:00 The dogs eat the crust. He's like the crust is the necessary part because you need a handle to hold the pizza. But it's the worst part of the pizza. People just give it to the dog. And so he's like, All right, I need to put cheese in the crust. And so Yeah. goes to his team and they're like, Yeah, we'll just put some cheese on top of the crust, it'll be great.

4:16 He's like, nah, it doesn't have that wow factor. He's like, We gotta have a wow factor. It's gotta feel different. It can't just be That we've added cheese to crust. It's gotta like be something that's marketable. And so he's like, let's figure out how to put cheese inside the crust. Which was a whole like physics problem because you know, he's like the first one he made like that. He's like it tasted pretty good, but it looked like a

4:35 Like a bike tire. Like I burnt the whole outer crust was like this fat, you know, like Thing. And so you had to figure out how do you cook the pizza. So that you can have gooey cheese in the crust. Without burning the crust.

4:47 Um, and so he does some work and they figure it out. They f get a special dough and a special pan and they get it to work and it becomes this huge hand. But then he's also a marketing genius. And so he creates He's like, You know what? We don't need to do something new. What we need to do is um Have you ever seen this Malcolm Gladwell talk that he gives his his big TED talk about the the perfect pastas? Have you seen this?

5:09 No. That sounds great. What is it? So it it's Malcolm Gladwell's famous TED talk from back in the day when he was, you know, Malcolm was the man writing uh tipping point and others. And he basically talks about this guy, another food scientist. Who got hired by a pasta sauce company, Ragu or whoever. And they were like, We need you to

5:27 Figure out how much um Like what's the perfect pasta sauce? Like should it have like chunks in it? Should it be just smooth? Should it have like herbs in it or just be plain? Should it have cheese? Like what what's the perfect pasta sauce?

5:40 And the guy and then the the the big takeaway, the spoiler of this TED Talk is The guy discovers discovers there's no perfect pasta sauce. There's only perfect pasta sauce is meaning You cluster people into like four or five categories. Like if you like chunks. Then give them way more chunk than you're currently giving them. Like they want way more. If you like spice.

5:58 Make it way spicier. It's too mild for them today. And if you like cheese, put cheese and so you basically like the middle that they're trying to serve everybody wasn't working and they actually needed to like go extreme. So this guy discovers the same thing in pizza. He creates the meat lovers pizza. He creates the pepperoni lover's pizza, the cheese lovers pizza, and he creates the lover's line. of pizza's there and that becomes a huge success. So he's crushing it at Pizza Hut. Which but all this sounds like silly, like I'm laughing.

6:23 This is not silly. This is great. This is actually this is really hard to do in a corporate setting. To convince someone true inventions. True innovations. I'm laughing, but This is legit. And this is moving billions of dollars of product, right? And this is like you know, hitting millions of customers. And this is also, by the way, we have friends that work at Facebook and Google and they're like, Yeah, I'm optimizing the like the marketplace.

6:46 Banner ads. To be like, you know, what happened. Yeah, you know, you were talking about this. I think you're watching the other thing. I was like um like if the like my wife worked in the team of them trying to put stickers on photos and she's like, Well, if the dog's tongue is out of the mouth, uh the cli the click the rate is five percent versus if it's in the mouth, it's only one percent. Right. And there's definitely like a cynical side of this, which is like our world's greatest minds are basically Just fine tuning knobs inside of giant slot machines, which is really what's happening inside of most big tech companies and most big food companies.

7:18 But hey, I'm not a hater. Let me just see some of the positive things of this. Okay. So he gets the call. He's at Pizza. He's crushing it. He creates all the all those products. Ring ring. Hello? Yeah, this is Tom.

7:29 Speaking. And then uh on the other side. Ronald? Is that you? And Ronald McDonald calls. He gets called up to the biggest of the big leagues. He gets called by McDonald's. McDonald says, We need you.

7:42 Is he a kid right now, or is he like Grown ass man. Okay. So he has a great thing, by the way, one of his frameworks, because they're like, How do you invent?'Cause like honestly he's like one of the more Creative inventors of our lifetime. And they're like, How do you invent it? And he goes I try to get inside the mind of an ambitious thirty two year old. And I was.

8:02 He's like basically when you're thirty two you have money. You have taste, so you kinda know what you like and you don't like, but you're still open minded. You're not closed off to the world. And um You're not like Easily swayed by the latest and latest trend of everything.

8:19 So you're y but you're still like You're still with it. And like you're still a part of every major trend that like has staying power. And so he's like, I study the mind of the f of an ambitious thirty two year old. Okay. And he works very much for that. So when he gets a call from McDonald's, he goes there and they're like, All right, where's the opportunity? And he's like, All right, let's look at breakfast. They start looking at breakfast. And he's like, All right, you got coffee.

8:40 Check. And then you have all your like savory foods. Check. He's like nothing sweet. And he starts thinking about it and he's like

8:48 All right. Casual answer. We need French toast. We need pancakes. And he's like oh Mm. Average first level thinking. Ew.

8:57 Get out of my get out of the room. And he's um he says, No, no, no, what what are we really gonna do? And he goes So he He's a master of constraints. So he says, How do we take

9:08 The Denny's Grand Slam breakfast. And put it in your hand. And they're like, What? And he's like I want an entire Grand Slam breakfast. But that will fit just fit in your hand.

9:20 'cause that's what McDonald's does. This guy sounds like a Salt Park character. And so he creates the McGriddle. Which is exactly that. It's a sweet breakfast item that fits in your hand. Pops off. McGriddle becomes a huge hit. McDonald's breakfast.

9:38 uh surges on the back of this creates billions of dollars in m market cap. And uh all because and he had to do some invention. He's like Well, we can't have this messy, drippy Um syrup, you know, sticky sandwich. Like, yeah, I can't put a sticky thing in your hand, then your your whole's ruined. You're not coming back the next day.

9:56 And I've never had a McGriddle. Have you had one? Hell yeah. Yeah, of course. You've never had a McGriddle. I've never had a McGriddle. Al Qaeda? Like this is like the greatest, like the greatest American. Where have you been? This is the best. Honestly, I never even considered it. But after this I after this I'm I'm so in. Apparently there's uh so you tell me, I don't know.

10:23 Is it not like covered in syrup and actually there's something called syrup crystals that are inside the pants? They're like little little balls of sh like sugary like syrup and it's wonderful and it mixes perfectly with the salty sausage. Okay. So that's it. That's what he did. Tom does it. So he does that, he creates and you don't get a mess on your hand. So you get the syrup but not a mess on your hand. Alright, so a lot of people will talk about how you need a million dollars and three years of experience to start a business. Nonsense. If you listen to at least one episode on this podcast, you know that is completely not true. My last company, The Hustle, we grew it to something like seventeen or eighteen million dollars in revenue.

11:01 I started it. With like Three hundred dollars. My current company, Hampton, does over ten million in revenue. Started it with actually no money, maybe twenty nine dollars or something like that. Nothing. And so you don't actually need investors to start a company. You don't need a fancy business plan, but what you do need is systems that actually work. And so my old company, The Hustle, they put together five proven business models that you could start right now today with under a thousand dollars. These are models that if you do it correctly, it can make money this week. You can get it right now. You can scan the QR code or click the link in the description now back to the show.

11:37 No, you might be thinking all right. Is this guy like You know. What was he really about?

11:43 Is he just is he just in this for himself? Is he an elite? Is he one of these elites that I should hate? Or is he a man of the people? Well, he's a man of the people. He creates the dollar menu. The dollar bandy, dude. What a what a iconic what an iconic move. Is he an employee at McDonald's right now?

12:01 Or is he an entrepreneur? No, I mean uh in the story. In the story, at this point in the story. He's a mercenary, he's a hired gun. And he drops in like he's like a one man Navy SEAL who drops in and like nails the target and bounces after a f handful of years. I don't know why there's no movie about this guy yet. Right? Like I don't want to see Jason Bourne. I wanna see Tom Right. The only question that we have at this point is is it does it come in via parachute or just do they storm the beach on a boat? Like what's he gonna do? Yeah. So he creates the dollar menu, creates the McFlurry Um and then he goes to Quisnos, Quisnos poaches him.

12:40 He does a little bit of work there, but the owner of Quizzles is like, Yeah, this is the guy. So he says forget quismos. Let's just create a whole new concept together and they create Smash Burger together, which I don't know if you've paid attention, but Uh uh. As a former QSR operator myself.

12:54 I'm I have a lot of respect and esteem for Smash Burger. Smash Burger is just it's just thin It I mean it's a burger that you when you grill it you put the meat you you stick the thing in the metal in the mass, right? You smell it. So it's kinda like a thin crust pizza. But for burgers. So they kinda smash the burger, which gives it like a more of a char

13:11 On both sides. Which is better for them too,'cause it's less meat. Well, I th I think it's the same, it's just gets wider. Uh okay. But uh but it tastes better, yeah, I think. Okay. So they create Smash Burger, become successful. But what a prolific career for this guy. And what a what a

13:27 What a track record. Like Who has dominated their industry the way this man has dominated fast food science, right? Like fast food food science. Pretty inspiring. When I Googled his name, it came up with Jobaly Foods Corporation. Is he associated with that?

13:42 Yeah, I don't know what that is. He's got like new stuff that he's doing. He did like a Like a new like Like sports bar type of deal. Um He's got Smash Burger, he was the CEO of Smash Burger for a while. I d I don't know all what all he's doing now.

13:55 But they were like, You wanna retire? He's like, retire. I wake up every day I I wake up every day I'm trying to dominate the palate. You think I you think I wanna go play golf? Like what what do you think this is? Have you Googled him? He uh he's got he's a beautiful man. He's just got the most beautiful head of hair I've I've seen in a long time. He looks like that British reporter like who like covers like sports. He looks like that guy. In the nineties, in every rom com the woman.

14:21 was vying for an editor and chief job at Vogue or something like that. That was like it had to be like Well no, the he looks like the second character. Now the second character. Is a British Yes. Or California uh record label executive. So they work in AR or they're running a label and they miss the kids' baseball game'cause they have to check out this band. Right. Like he he looks like that character. He looks like the record label executive uh from every nineties rom com movie. Is he like this alpha, like get after it type of guy, or is he like a kooky

14:56 Forgetful for f professor who wears two not matching socks. Okay, that I don't know. But he's an alpha in my mind. He's an alpha to me. I'm gladly a beta to him. This guy's amazing. Um, did I tell you by the way, back in the day when I was doing my sushi restaurant chain, we went to a uh You know like these industry conferences

15:15 That You like you just sometimes like you know we we went to farm con it's like a farmers conference Well I went to like a food version of this. I don't know if you've ever been to any of these quirky, like industry trade show conferences, but They're so funny, dude. So I mean like I w I went to inbound.

15:30 The inbound the Hobsmotts Inbound Marketing Conference. So I went to this thing um because there's a QSR magazine. Quick service restaurant. So I there's a quick service restaurant. We uh We apply, we're like, Hey, we really want to go to the conference. Can you give us free tickets? And they're like, Yeah. Here we go. And uh

15:59 You know what the icebreaker was? We got there. The icebreaker when you come in. In the lobby. They have three tables set up. Of just like dirty dishes. Like it's a A a restaurant table?

16:11 It was a speed busing competition. So you would go with three other people And you'd have to try to like bust the table as fast as you can and whoever had like the best bus was uh you know, like succeeded, basically like one that won the contest got like a a keycha or something like that. It it was amazing. The guy who organized it, his name was literally Tom Hamberger. It was unreal. Dude, this is um this is I've this we've done seven hundred and fifty plus, I think, episodes of MFM and this happens a lot.

16:39 Where a lot of people don't realize this, but for the majority of episodes, you and I don't talk in advance'cause we like to like surprise each other on air on the topic. This is funny, what you're saying is very similar to the topic that I had brought. Okay, which again and and so it it this can all actually be related. And I have what I think could be like a nice little bow at the end to like how this could be good for uh Entrepreneurs and business owners listening. I found a photo of a billboard.

17:02 That I saw recently that stopped me in my tracks. And so I want you to look at this billboard and tell me what it says. Okay, so it says boiled cod and it's a picture of a cod. Slightly more protein per calorie than our bars. David. The David Bar. Okay. Have you seen this? No. Amazing. Okay. So I want to tell you a story about this because it and I wanna explain a little bit like

17:23 Nerdy marketing about why it works. So the story behind this, uh, we had Peter uh Raha uh on the podcast, I think like six months ago. So Peter was the guy who started R X bar in his mom's basement and he eventually for something like six hundred fifty million dollars only six years after uh starting. By the way, the episode he did with us was awesome. Like uh if you if you wanna if let's go listen to a fun episode, listen to that one. It basically he tells a story of how he built R X bar. how he's building David Bar, but also he had like four or five

17:53 other ideas of like if I was gonna go into a category, this is the type of category I look at and how I would attack it. Which is like what you always want from a An entrepreneur who's got like expertise that comes on the pod. It's like great. Tell me how you did it. Tell me what you're doing now.

18:07 But okay, that's great for you. What about for me? And do you have specific ideas And like a specific approach you take that I can learn from for like white space right now. And he actually had a a a third part of that uh which was he had a beautiful attitude. Uh and not beautiful in the sense of um fun to be around. Uh like he was sort of like Napoleon. Like he had this like conquer the world energy that I thought was like actually kind of cool, very intense energy.

18:34 Um that I thought was interesting. And so uh when he came on, he told us a story of R X bar, he told us a story about David Protein bars. I don't think David had launched at that point. But the background behind David is when he was and I I have to give a shout out to New York Times uh daily. I I'm using them as the source for this. Uh but when he started um David, the idea was with R X bar it was a natural bar. It was made out of dates, and it had a very small amount of protein, and he noticed that it had I had more I think I would have been able to approach a larger market and I could create something a lot bigger. And so David find this thing called EPG. It's a delivery mechanism for protein. And eventually David actually the company has bought the company that owns the patent for EPG. And EPG is a type of

19:22 chemical that allows protein to be delivered to you faster. So so let me explain let me just ask this question'cause it the doc here says It's a modified fat called EPG, which delivers the texture of fat But it passes through your body with ninety two percent fewer calories. Is this Remember when Paul Verlucky came on?

19:42 And he was like Dye Coke is amazing. And he's like, I just wanted to make like Diet Coke for like any food into the equivalent of Diet Coke. So it's just like food that tastes really good. But it basically just passes straight through your body and it can't be absorbed and therefore like doesn't make you fat.

19:58 Um Is that what this is basically it's like so is it. tastes good, you could put it in a bar, but because it can't be absorbed by your body It's uh you know, it it doesn't have the sort of caloric impact. Is that what it is? So basically it's the it's it's it's one of the most efficient ways to get tons and tons of protein into your body per calorie.

20:19 And the way they do that Is Via via EPG, which is a incredibly ultra processed food. So I don't know if it's what you're describing, but the criticisms for David, of which we had Justin Mary's on the podcast, he's one he was a very loud vocal critic of this. He has basically said David may get you lots and lots of protein, but it's incredibly ultra processed. And there's the argument as to why that's not good because this This

20:44 Just chemical or whatever you want to call EPG. There's a lot of people who who want to criticize it and say it's bad. And I'm not gonna place judgment on either side. I'm just telling There's two sides of this argument, which is what I'm gonna get to. But People loved it.

20:59 Uh David, which I think is it even two years old yet? Yeah. I think it's one year old roughly.'Cause he was on about a year ago on the podcast and I think it was like just about to launch or had just launched. So this year they're gonna do close to two hundred million dollars in sales in roughly the second year of business. They're they're on a They're on a tear. They did a million dollars in the first week of sales. And if you go to like any store right now, I don't know what it's like in California, but any store in New York, they're everywhere. David Protein Bars are everywhere and and they've crushed it on the marketing in particular. They've crushed it on the product side, but they've really killed it on the marketing. And so

21:34 When I saw this sign, Boyle Cod, it stopped me in my tracks and the reason it stopped me in my tracks is I'm reading this book, I'm rereading. We had Tim Ferris on the podcast and he had mentioned this book that he loved. It was called The Twenty Two Immutable Laws of Marketing. Have you ever have you ever read of that? I have it I have it, but I haven't read it yet. It was one of these things where like I skimmed before when I was younger, but when we had him on, I he made a comment that it was a great book and I was like, you know, I should actually sit down and read that. It's really short. It's only a hundred pages. You could basically read it in one or two sittings. And one of the laws is called the Law of the Opposite. And the reason why this is relevant to the story that you just said is because it goes to like the science and the methodology behind in twenty two different ways to stand out and be different.

22:15 And to focus on something that's not better, but different. And so the law of the opposite states that If you're not the leader of a category, your strategy is then dictated by the leader. Which mist to not to be better. Than the leader, but to be the opposite. Customers already have the leader's position locked in their mind, and you win by framing yourself as an alternative. And the key is to embrace the differences and often extra uh uh exaggerate them. And the reason this all works is marketing is a battle of perceptions, not products. The challenger doesn't need to disprove the leader. they need to define themselves as the antidote, meaning

22:50 We are not them. were the other choice. Right. And so why is this so interesting? Because David took the criticisms of them being an ultra processed food and they ran towards the fire. So much so that on their website, I thought that this was a joke. And so what they're doing is they are positioning themselves as an alternative to natural foods. They're saying, Yeah. Natural frozen cod. Better for you.

23:14 That's the best. But like it's disgusting. Who the hell wants to eat that? Eat this other thing that tastes good and it's Like it's just a little bit less good in terms of protein per calorie.

23:28 But you're actually going to be able to consume it. They're actually selling card. If you go to their website They sell it. They're selling it. And so this is a master class. on how to handle this situation.

23:42 They're cod. So they're wild caught. And it's like twenty three grams of protein, hundred calories and no sugar. You can get it. It's four filets flash frozen. Add to cart. And then there's all their bars like chocolate chip cookie dough, peanut butter chunk. All sold out. Here's all the sold out bars. Here's cod, fully available.

24:01 We've got a lot of this stuff still stuck. And there's a bunch of examples of the law of opposites. Do you remember, I don't know if you remember this as a kid, but you would see commercials for Avis. Do you remember Avis? Yeah, the rental car. Yeah, so basically Avis was number two in the market and Hertz was the biggest company by far. And Avis had this amazing uh brand campaign where they said, We're number two, so we try harder. And that was their that was their campaign, which is like we know we're number two, we're gonna try harder.

24:27 Uh that's another example of the law of opposite. But David has executed this flawlessly. Isn't this like an amazing thing to lean into? And this is like not something that like Dude, I'm just kicking myself because when he came on I literally fell in love with the guy. I was like I love this guy's intensity, love this guy's honesty, love his approach. He's clearly like

24:47 An expert in this field in this industry and in attacking this. It was so obvious that the they had nailed the branding and packaging at the bar. So I'm just mad that I didn't push to like try to invest in this thing and be like, hey, I just I'm so bullish on this. And it it has played out exactly, uh as I would have guessed. I think you go I I think we said, What's your goal? He goes, Well

25:07 I actually think we're gonna expand the TAM. And I think that this is gonna be a ten billion dollar company. Yeah, that's crazy. I like their copy on their site. We thank our predecessors in the protein industry. We'll take it from here. It's so good, right? They they they nail it on on branding. They nail it a bunch of stuff and I saw when I saw this COD billboard

25:25 I was like, Oh, that's that's so good. That's exactly what the book, Twenty Two Immediately Laws of Marketing, that's exactly what they had mentioned with the law of opposites. And they completely nailed it. And if you are a small business owner, uh very similar to what this guy Tom Ryan did. I would highly recommend reading this book and then downloading it and uploading it to chat GPT. It's so cool and interesting. Uh to give you ideas on your product. Or and or your positioning. And what what what he just was explaining about with the with the Mick Riddle and all that stuff, it's all very, very, very similar to this, which is it's not the goal is not to be better, the goal is to be different. Because

26:00 A meat lover's pizza. That's not particularly better. It just that's remarkably different than anything else. Listen up the old playbook is slowing you down. AI.

26:11 Broke the funnel. Loop marketing. Fixes it. It's a new era for marketers. AI is capturing traffic, channels are fragmented. And generating leads feels less predictable than ever before. HubSpot's loop marketing playbook will guide you through this unprecedented disruption.

26:27 It's the system your marketing teams should use to move faster, connect deeper, and grow smarter. The modern growth playbook for the AI era. Built by HubSpot. Design for today's marketer. Get the loop marketing playbook at hubspot.com slash loop dashmarketing. To find out more.

26:42 and leave your competition behind. All right. Back to the pot. Alright, let's do another Topic.

26:49 Okay, I have a little Doc market. Thing. Can I do a stock thing? Yeah. Um

26:56 Is there any pretty stupid and dangerous'cause like Most likely just gonna get be wrong and give it a part here. Not entirely so La last time we talked about this type of stuff, you picked So we're we're all disclosure we're idiots, don't do anything we're saying. The last time though you picked UFC.

27:14 Yeah, so we did a episode called Stock Palooza. Uh I don't about a year ago, I don't know when that was. And the idea was that me and Sam would go research And we just try to pick a stock. Like we try to make a call similar to the Sewn conference where you just try to find a company that you would believe in as a um as an outperformer and then we made our case. And I picked TKO, which is the parent company of uh

27:36 UFC and WWE. And you picked Well Ferrari. Ferrari. And I think um I believe we did that episode so February twelfth, twenty twenty four.

27:48 Uh Let's see what the stock price has performed since then. Okay. So the the stock at that time was trading at eighty five dollars And it's currently at a hundred and eighty five dollars. Okay. You know.

28:02 Up uh what what is that? Over a hundred percent, hundred and seventeen percent. Did you put any of your money into it? Course not, bro. You think I'm here to make money? What's going on? Um not because not for any particular reason. I was just like, Lazy. I didn't I didn't pay attention. So anyways, that pick has performed well. I don't think Ferrari's done well. I think Ferrari's down like five percent. So I'm better than you. Um you just stay quiet for a minute. Let me just do this segment here. You could give a pick that's bad after this. I was hanging out with somebody recently who's a guest. He can't you know as a guest on the podcast, super successful like billionaire type of dude.

28:36 And uh asked him two questions. One was What would you be doing right now? What would what would be your AI play if you're just like young And Broke, but like wanted to do something with AI. And he had a pretty interesting answer to that, which is he's like, I would go into he's like, I would go find a business owner

28:53 Who's um built a successful book of business, like let's say it's in insurance or home mortgages or you know, some some some nice industry, some juicy industry. And like the owner kinda knows like, oh, AI probably could benefit like I probably I could probably benefit from AI in my company. But who cares from sixty. But I'm sixty, I'm too old to like c actually figure this stuff out. And go to he's like, I would go to them. I would go to as many of those guys as I can and try to build up a relationship and be like, hey

29:19 Um I will do all of the work to use AI to cut our costs internally. Like I can automate a bunch of processes and jobs and whatnot. Like I can increase our accuracy and decrease our costs. And if I do that, like can I carve can you basically will you carve me out ten percent of this business? If I successfully do it. I'll do it totally on contingency, but like here's the deal. And we can like

29:40 measure the op exchange that I'm gonna make in this business if you just give me free reign for, you know Twelve months. He's like it's the fastest way to kinda like own a piece of the thing. He's like, you know, and then I would try to in that agreement, maybe create an option to buy the majority of the business. At a fair value.

29:56 If I can pull that off. I thought that was interesting that was the first thing. Second thing he was talking about, he goes. He was like, Yeah, um He's like SpaceX.

30:06 I just think it's Unbelievable that people will That there's any Counter argument to SpaceX. He's like

30:12 SpaceX is the most Defensible company. In the history of humanity. Like the What's the second best SpaceX? Like, is there anybody you know, like there's there's so few companies that can even compete with SpaceX.

30:26 And think about how monumentally difficult it would be to compete with SpaceX. Like yeah, you gotta literally Get into the rocket business. And like Not just the rocket business, the reusable rocket business. Not only that But to do it and like be competing you know, competing for these giant government contracts. And you have to, you know, successfully demonstr you know, demonstrate, you know, safe launches over a period of time. He's like

30:48 At this point, SpaceX is so unbelievably defensible. He's like, I think it's the safest place to put money. And so I thought that was kind of interesting. Just like generational defensibility and really the question of like Who is set up over the next twenty years? Who just has an incredibly competitive position for the next twenty years? So I just took that frame and none of these names are unpopular, so I'm not giving you some like obscure pick.

31:15 But I just like This is my honest take. And like I you know, I'm basically trying to get into all of these companies because I think over a twenty year period, I think All these companies have a very Um combination of They have a tailwind behind them, so the wind is in their sails.

31:30 of they're in the right place at the right time. Like clear the industries they're in The tech wave that they're surfing. is the big tech wave that we're gonna see play out over twenty years. And two. They don't have much competition.

31:42 Which was my case for the for the um The TKO stock pick also. Because I was like, there's no competition to UFC and there's no competition to WWE. Like The number two

31:54 MMA, you know, promotions, whether it's PFL, like Bellator. Like these were companies that literally called the brink uh on the brink of bankruptcy. And like They're They're like not just like in second place. They're literally like one hundred or one thousand times.

32:09 smaller and behind and they And because of that network effect, they have no chance to ever catch up. UFC is a a tens of billions of dollar company and the second best one like they get in trouble for not being able to like make payroll. Literally it's like the rich guy's hobby typically. Yeah. Like it's not even close. Like that it's like it's like it's like LeBron versus the freshman the freshman team. It's not even in the same category. And so when you're in that category of one

32:35 It's like that's a pretty big deal, plus you have growth behind you, but like the fact that there's just no competition. Same thing with WWE. There's really no competition. to WWE. And of course, since then they both signed major, major like streaming deals, way bigger than you know people thought they would sign, like billion dollar a year plus streaming deals. But what's this have to do with the first part of um AI? Oh the AI part that was separate. All right. So now so here's here's five other companies I think are extremely well positioned. So the first is a company that

33:01 I've been I I was wrong about I own the stock very early on. And I got so mad during the Game Stop thing that I sold out of principle. I'm never gonna let those stupid principles in my way again. They give you bad directions. Like in route to making money. Yeah. My my big moral stand didn't seem to hurt this company. So Robinhood was the company. I owned the stock when it was like, I don't know, five dollars, seven dollars, whatever it was, like really early on, like right when it IPO'd basically. And um

33:28 The it was like actually after the IB kinda dipped or something and um When the GameStop thing happened and they basically shut off the ability to buy, but continue to let people sell GameStop. I was like That is the most corrupt thing I've ever seen. Same. And I it pissed me off so much that I was like, F these guys.

33:46 I don't I don't trust these guys, I'm out. Since then, they've just basically proceeded to like build what's clearly like Morgan Stanley for the next generation. So like The tailwind behind Robin Hood is the following. There's some like

33:58 Absurd amount of wealth. I don't know what it is, like twenty trillion, fifty trillion. This is like some stupid number like with a trillion behind it. Of wealth that's just gonna get transferred from like The parent, you know, boomers to millennials or Jen Z. Over the next twenty, thirty years.

34:13 And so the question is. As that money gets handed down What will those people do with it? And it's pretty clear that like If you're a Jen Z or you're oblivious.

34:22 the platforms you trust and gravitate towards the financial platforms you're already a user of when you have small check deposits. Is Robin Hood. And then and then they're like, Great, we have crypto, we have four one Ks, we have home mortgages, and we got credit cards. Like what else do you want? Wait, they do they they do all those? They have prediction markets, which the which is a code word for sports betting and gambling. So you can gamble on there, you can buy crypto on there, you can buy stocks on there. You can buy fractional stocks at private companies. You could buy

34:50 You can do all the margin trading and options trading if you're wanna get really degenerate. You can do your f you can put a four you can open up a four one K with them, you can get a Robin Hood gold card and you could use that as your credit card and you get a home mortgage. It's like An unbelievable amount of financial products that they've rolled out all in one app. And it's basically this financial super app that Gen Z slash millennials are most comfortable with and as the wealth transfer happens

35:13 They're gonna be the beneficiary of that. So I think next twenty years, they're extremely well positioned. So Austin Reif, uh the founder of Morningbird, one of my uh closest buddies. He has been texting me for the past six months. Maybe longer, to be honest. Longer. He's been texting me too about this. In fact, he's the only reason I bought it. Uh so I did buy it back again, like uh maybe six months ago. I had a I was about to have a call with him. And he had been talking about Robinhood, but he's kicking himself because he doesn't own any. But he's been it was like his call. He was like, it's gonna be great. I'm just waiting for a dip. The dip never came. And he d he doesn't own any of it. And it's basically ripped up like in a five X, seven X Since he's been like wanting to buy.

35:48 Yeah, he's been talking about a constant. And I had a call with him, so before the call I bought a hundred thousand dollars of Robinhood stock just so I could get on the call as a Robinhood shareholder. And be like, Oh, thank you for the tip. And since then it's up thirty forty percent also. And so he's responsible for my Robin Hood uh conviction, even though he doesn't own any of it now. Yeah, and I think his reasoning, I forget what it was exactly, or he had more than one point, but one of the points was like young people and he owns a company called uh or he did own Morning Brew, which probably had two hundred employees of which a lot of'em were like twenty three year old, like hundred thousand, hundred fifty thousand dollar earning uh people. And he was like My staff, that's the uh

36:25 The default. They all have one hundred percent of their net worth in Robin Hood. Right. And that is only going to continue to grow. So they'cause they keep their money in there and it's just gonna keep on growing. This is this company's unstoppable. And he's been bragging about it or calling that for for maybe a year and a half And so he's absolutely nailed it. I and I agree with you. I did not buy into that argument at all. I thought was silly. I w I thought on principle I'm not on board with the what these guys do. You're more of like a schwab type of guy. I feel like you you want

36:55 When it comes to money, you want boring. You want like a bow tie? You want like you know a man with a briefcase is what you want. I I I potentially have a lot of money and I didn't want to keep it in an app. Like to think of keeping it in an app was like kind of a that's a little nerve wracking. And like the interface is so cute. That I thought it was like

37:15 They cared more about looks. I was like I want the ugliest website that's at the biggest vault. But you didn't want to keep it in an app as if it's like a shoe box. Like where where do you think the money's kept in any of these? Like if it was a website that's better? I wanted the like forgot password button to be like hidden. Like I didn't want someone to like I don't know, I just it was too user friendly. If it's too user friendly to me that means it's easily hackable. Uh that was the issue, that it was too good, you know? It's like uh you find good deals on Craigslist because you're you're finding something like interesting that no one else uses. Robinhood scared me. Honestly, I get I actually get what you're talking about. I I actually felt s similar. I was like I don't want to keep huge amounts of money in this app. But I did keep some I I I had some money. I think I bought like crypto on it before and uh I like they for years they did this thing where instead of giving you like Uber for your new ride if you referred someone to a new ride, they give you ten dollars. Robin Hood had this amazing thing. where you could like s do a scratch off. You could pick option one, two, or three, which obviously it's not actually one, two, three, it's all the same. And they would give you stock. And so like I owned like I owned like ten dollars of Ford.

38:16 And that is now worth more. Because I did this like you know, right when they launched. And so I like Robin Hood, though, as a company. Uh I just Googled it. Is it true did they do one point one billion dollars of profit on three billion in revenue. Yeah, basically when interest rates went up, all of the like financial service companies started printing money. Because now all the money that they hold, they're able to they're able to like and and money that they lend out at high rates, but like the money they hold are earning like four or five percent on their float.

38:44 Which is like pretty crazy. So they're you know, they're very interest rate dependent right now. By the way, the criticism for all of these Is that These are crazy. The valuation is crazy. Look at the fundamentals. Oh, you know Tesla, you know, they need to sell this many crazy amount of cars in order to justify this. Or like

39:01 even self driving and have to be like bigger than Uber. To um to just Be where it's valued at currently right. So like Your upside is priced in would be the counter argument. And I by the way, I have no argument against that. I just think very simply, this has actually served me pretty well, which is like

39:16 I told you the story, like in twenty ten I was kinda like, Oh like These internet companies seem to be like pretty dominant. Everybody uses them. Everybody's using them. Let me get some of that. That's the thing. I don't really know how to do a discounted cash flow. I can't I can't really tell you much about that about the PE ratios and like the any of that stuff. But like I don't know, this internet thing that toothpaste's not going back in the bottle. And so like similarly it's like pretty obvious that with some of these is like Yeah, like I like that partners. That's the name of your uh that's the name of your firm. Exactly. I like that. Running my company Hampton, it gives me the chance to meet with hundreds of different businesses. And I'm always surprised by how many of them still use spreadsheets.

39:57 Emails and clunky tools that do not talk to each other. It's like watching someone build a house with duct tape. So here's my take. Custom software that actually fits your needs isn't just convenient. It's a competitive advantage to transform the way you do business. And that's why you need to know about a no-code platform called Bubble.

40:16 With bubble, you can build powerful web and mobile apps by literally dragging and dropping different elements out of the screen. No coding required. By the way, I use bubble on a ton of different apps, including Hamton. And if you want help. building something complex on bubble, you have to bring in zero code.

40:33 They're the top bubble out there and literally the biggest plug in creator for the platform. They can build anything, custom portals, SaaS products, and they do it about ten times faster and cheaper than traditional development. Zero code is also all about AI business automation, transforming manual and slow processes into efficient automated ones. So stop cobbling together different tools and solutions and head to zero code.com. That's zero code as in the word zero and then code q. Again, code is with a q and tell them that Sam sent you.

41:05 All right, what's the next one, let me just run through a couple of those uh Coinbase is basically the same case. Except what they have is Coinbase has nine product lines. that do over a hundred million dollars of revenue each. I thought that's a stunning, stunning statement. I can't believe how many different ways that they make a lot of money.

41:22 I think cryp basically it's like I'm bullish on Bitcoin in general and crypto. And if you're bullish on crypto. The most trusted exchange. that basically everybody that takes a fee on everybody's interest. Everybody's uh enthusiasm around crypto. They take a fee of every buy and every sell. Like that's a business that's gonna do very well. And also

41:41 Like As now like the government The government's pro crypto, they're buying crypto, there's ETFs, it's in people's retirement accounts, like Same thing. Can't can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle on that. And that CEO is an animal. He's an animal.

41:55 And so I just think they're they're extremely, you know, well positioned similarly for for the you know the future. Uh when it when it I PO'd uh I never do this. I've only done this two or three times or Something like that. I bought up and clapped? I I Right after I purchased like a hundred grand worth of stock and I just looked at my um I just looked at it I

42:19 I just made the money back. Now that it's like on a on a tear, it looks like I've I've I'm I'm even now after I think four years or three years. The other two uh Again, this is uh this is so cliche. I mean, I almost didn't even want to do this segment, but I do believe in this, so like It's not cliche to me because I don't follow all this stuff, so I I think a lot of people won't find it totally cliche. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well unfortunately the YouTube comments aren't as uh as forgiving and and kind as you are. All right, so Tesla is the the next one, which is basically if you think about what are the next

42:51 Big Industries to get unlocked. A combination of Self driving cars gonna change the world and then the robots. Now the time scale is obviously the question here. Uh but again I'm taking if you take a twenty year outlook.

43:03 Nobody's better positioned to do self driving cars and robots than Tesla. So And then I also think, by the way, he's gonna end up merging XAI with Tesla. Like he's gonna he's gonna put it all together. I don't understand that. I don't get that. I don't get that combo. W why are we going together? Well it's basically it one is an AI lab.

43:22 And then All the f the future of the Tesla is as an AI company. And if he's able to basically like financially engineer his way into owning more Tesla by m by having Tesla buy

43:33 XAI, like he's also like done this before with Solar City where he like bails out his own companies in in a way, right? I guess I get that. The way how uh Twitter has basically become AI, which is then a Tesla owned thing, that's a wild journey. That that's the wild part. I wouldn't own any I don't want to own any stock that tes uh that Elon controls because he's a crazy person and I don't mind being I don't mind him being crazy. What I mind is like when he tweets something, the stock changes. Or and so I'm like, Well what if he gets shot? Which is definitely not unreasonable. Like there has to be like a one percent chance that he gets assassinated. Or a one percent chance that he dies doing something reckless. Yeah, there's crazy E-man risk with him. Yeah, it's too crazy. Like when he tweeted that Trump was a

44:17 A pedophile? What? Did it go up or down like did it move? Yeah, it went down. Yeah, I don't have the stomach for that. The stock trades in completely crazy ways in the short term. Like don't be like, Oh

44:31 We missed delivery estimates by a lot. My bad. And the stock's like up ten percent. It's like what what's going on here? It's weird, man. Tesla's too weird for me. Yeah, I'm I'm too old school for that, but uh I do I I understand the argument. I mean the again the idea is like We're gonna have robots doing human labor. Once you ex if you d if you disagree with that

44:52 Then you're wrong and we disagree. Uh, but if you uh realize that robots are gonna do human labor And that human labor is the biggest market in the world. is the market for human human labor. Then the company that makes the robots that do the human labor is gonna sell more

45:08 It's gonna be like the iPhone. The iPhone was like this product that everybody in the world bought. that uh you know s sells billions and billions and billions of units. As soon as they have robots that can actually do functional work, they're gonna sell billions and billions. There's gonna be more robots than humans. Cause why would you not? I'd be like, Yeah, give me five give me five of those guys to be doing shit around my house, my backyard, my factory, my warehouse, my whatever, right? Like As soon as people as soon as that exists, then the question is, do you believe it will exist? Do you believe that that Tesla can pull it off? Yes. The the it's definitely worth betting that they will pull that out. So you once you go down the logic train of like

45:40 The biggest market in the world, human labor. Um, we now have the technology uh wave happening where robots will be able to do that human labor. And that if you had that, what would be the demand for that? Okay, pretty much the biggest demand we've ever seen for anything ever. Uh okay great. So let's go to the next one.

45:55 Who is gonna be able to uh you know Who's gonna be able to do it who's well positioned to do it? Tesla. Okay, great. So you so you go down that chain and you realize like, okay, they're pretty well positioned. It's just hard. Uh because so I have a friend that joined OpenAI uh in Well, I forget the exactly what year, but at the time I think they're worth thirty billion dollars. And he was debating, he's like, Should I do this? Should I not do this? And uh

46:19 He said that we all said the same thing, which is wow, thirty billion dollars, that's a lot of money. Is there any upside to this? Well, he joined Uh I believe he's made about thirty million dollars. And as of now, the stock that he was granted back then, it is grant uh it is now worth ten million a year. So every vest, it's something like ten million dollars. Right. And he sold a little bit to to where he's good. But we were talking the other day and

46:43 We were like This could definitely ten X again. Like your grants could be one hundred million dollars a year. And that's that's it's very hard to like overcome that that to get to that conclusion just because not logic, because of emotion. You know what I mean?

46:58 Totally. Um the smartest investors I know. And the reason why I think there's merit to just having a very like simple simpleton. Uh model of investing. Is

47:12 For most of the like I guess I w if I look back at the last ten years, I look back a couple of the smartest investors I know. They always had like A very like two sentence L two sentence level of conviction and they sort it out. They're like, Hey, like all you needed to do

47:29 was BTC and chill. Thank you. All you needed to do was Bitcoin and shell. Right. You know, when we sold to Amazon and we got our Amazon grant

47:38 And it was like Okay, you own this much Amazon stock now. Guess what? I did all these side projects. I did all this other shit during the meantime. I like try I like work got up every day and went to work. All I needed to do was hold a Amazon and show. Like if you get a big enough lump sum, you're just gonna let things compound. And so like Um one of my friends, Zach, he has this this

47:57 One investment that's sort of like the power law. Like You know when Ozempik happened. He was like, Oh, I think I just need to own the companies that are like the the Oz Epic companies. And he's like, Yep, like that was the only thing that you needed to do. Los Epic was the investment theme of the year.

48:15 You just had to recognize it and you had to take action on it. It didn't take a g like a literal genius to do it, right? You didn't have to predict as epic. You didn't have to like be knee deep in clinical trials six years ago. Like even if it just like after it happened, you just had to like understand what was actually happening.

48:31 And buy and hold. And like that was what you needed to do. And ever he basically has a list of every year. What's the one thing that mattered. What was the one? I think you said one year it was like OnlyFans. Yeah. One year he was like, it's only fans this year. And I was like OnlyFans. What this was like before it was this was actually I think in in twenty nineteen. We clear about it. We sold uh and we sold a Twitch and he texted me and he was like Only thing that's I believe is gonna make more money than Twitch.

48:56 I go. Bro, Twitch is making like and I shared him with him, you know, I was like, Twitch was making a lot of money. He's like I said what I said. Everything else is noise for me this year. I just need to figure out if I can get into only fashion. Did he get it?

49:07 Yeah, he did. And so uh you know, he's you know, but I I I just really respect that level of thinking, that that type of thing. In fact, one of my friends who's like this. He came to he came over my house and he goes, um Take two. Take two. What would it take two? Well it take two.

49:36 I asked him, I'm like, What's the thing right now? Because he was he was the one who early on was just like you need to have one hundred percent of your net worth in Bitcoin. And he was just like every day he would just tell me this. And he would just tell me this every day. This is twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen. Every day he's just tell me the same thing. And he would tell me exactly why and he would write it. He wrote it down for me and he just kept doing it. And because of my own more Bitcoin than I would have otherwise. So I you know, at least I didn't listen to him. I didn't do a hundred percent, but I I I did I did listen to him. He was basically making a case why the company that makes uh Grand Theft Auto He's like Grand Theft Auto is uh coming GTA six is coming out.

50:12 And when it comes out, is it right now the stock is a little depressed'cause it's the game's been delayed for like multiple years. He's like The game is gonna come out. And when the game comes out it's gonna be the Biggest selling game ever. There's no competition.

50:24 He g and he he's like uses all these like economics where like you know, some word for like there are no substitutes. Like there's no substitute for GTA. Yeah, he was using words like elastic elastic or something. So he's like rubber bands or stocks, bruh. He's like, you know, a great investment has these like six properties and like you know, here's the six properties and and I'm like And Grand Theft Auto fits all those? He's like, Yes. And so that's like, you know, his big thing. This is what he was saying a year ago. It's already up like thirty percent or something since he told me this. And he was you know, to the whatever. There's more to that story I will I like I can't share here, but like Is that type of thinking that's like I don't know, it's very uh very attractive to me. I I fall I f I get seduced by that level of that type of thinking very easily. And obviously I'm cherry picking like, you know

51:06 Things that worked. I'm sure there's If I really thought about it, I'm sure I have a bunch of smart friends who, you know, fell in love with random single securities that didn't didn't do anything. I'm sh I I'm not saying this is like a foolproof thing. Dude, when you whenever we talk about this, I like, um I I started thinking I would be like the Warren Buffett thing where I'm like, Well, I just don't understand it, so I'm gonna stick to that thing, which is a really novel way of saying Uh like, you know, whatever. I'm I'm sti I'm not doing it.

51:28 And then I started thinking about this recently, where I was like Well it's Been eight years. Maybe I should learn about it. Maybe that circle of competence needs to expand a little bit. So like six months ago I went and bought a book on it and like started reading it and I was like Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish I would have read this uh a long time ago. This book was published like w years ago. What am I doing? Uh Well I don't know it. I don't understand it. So I'm not going to do it. But that's been eight years. Yeah. I don't I should have read way sooner.

52:00 What's the fourth company? Um OpenAI is one of them, but I think that's the most controversial one'cause I think they they you know There's so much competition, who knows? And I just was thinking like who else is uniquely positioned. On a twenty year time scale.

52:13 Where they have the winds of technology behind their back. So they're they're in the right space where like clearly they're They're sitting in the lane where the the the the the highest velocity of like, you know But then also that they have to do it. A unique defense ability. Well though I they will actually capture it.

52:32 I think it's basic. Space is uniquely defensible. I think Coinbase is uniquely defense defensible. I think Tesla is unique uniquely defensible. None of these things are like, you know, completely foolproof. Of course, like, you know, there's there there are competitors. I'm not saying that. But I just think like On the sliding scale of defensibility, it's very, very hard to compete with any of those companies because they built up

52:52 These durable, durable moats, right? Like whether it's regular regulatory modes, whether it's brand, whether it's network effect. Whether it's like heart you know hard technical um you know. technical things that are you know take years for other people to catch up to, but then by then they're on the next generation.

53:07 Dude, I wonder um Like this is total like the bro science of financial investing. But I don't look into like I don't really read about the fundamentals of certain companies. And the only few times that I've bought an individual stock, it's been

53:23 Mostly because the founder, the entrepreneur behind it. And so when we hung out with Mario, the guy who started Oscar Health, he like explained a little bit about Oscar. And I was like, Okay, it's a health insurance company, but I I don't really know anything else, but like you you're really inspiring. And so I bought a little bit of that. And then the first one was Atlassian. I read an article about Atlassian. And their office. I don't know if you remember this, but my office was at n um Where was it? It was in Soma. And their office was like on the street of my of my office, the hustle. And I used to like look in their office and I was like, Wow, I love the interior design of your office. And I read a uh a little bit about the founders and they seemed really smart and I bought

54:01 I think a thousand dollars worth of it,'cause I didn't have any money. I think it turned into fifty fifty grand. I think it like fifty X. Uh and it was and so both of the times that they have made money, it's literally just been because the founder was interesting to me. Total bro science. No I don't even know what a glass and does to this day. Like I I I I they make software, but I I don't know what software. I don't know what it's like. Like the the they they they say words like schedule instead of schedule. Like you know, it's a scheduler I don't know what a schedule is. Uh but uh it's been like that's kinda been like an interesting way. It just seems like someone has willed something into existence and the cool factor. So for example, Palantir. I'm pretty sure they're trading at like two hundred times reven revenue or something like that. And I have to imagine there's gotta be some research on what the Alex Carp like cool factor adds to that multiple. Yeah.

54:57 These become cults. Like there's enough like um There's enough sort of like retail energy now. Things become cult like right now, they're trying to make it happen for open door. I don't know if you've paid attention to this. I have. I have. I've seen open door. I don't understand why there's what's who's the cult leader behind like what why do people care about open doors? Pomp and it's like this guy Eric Jackson and others. I I mean, I I don't know. I'm I'm not too far in it. I I stay away from the like Uh

55:22 You know, everybody's got their um their their vices. But yeah, meme stock's a not not one that that does it for me. So like fortunately I don't get sucked into that. So your buddy was like, I should just pick one stock and go all in. If there's one skill set that you should go all in, honestly, like I learned it a little bit with Hermosy and uh we've seen it time and time again. But like Becoming a very charismatic person that knows how to talk to the masses is obviously the answer. That's the skill set that you have to learn. Manipulation is what I'm saying. Everything else. Um just learn that. I think uh Rob the Bank, who you had on uh a while ago, He like talked about some book. He's like, I don't even want to say the name of this book. He like teed it up perfectly. And I think you did I I think you did the same. He's like there's this one book on how to manipulate people. I don't even want to say the name. It's just too powerful and I don't want the price to go up. The dark is do you remember what he said that? Uh maybe maybe I don't like like you say it on our podcast or somewhere else. Yes. What is it? I wanna know now.

56:29 I'm not gonna say. Give it to me. I'll tell you after. Uh but I don't even know. Robert Green, they say this about his book, right? Four Laws of Power. Like I think one of the like marketing sticks, which I don't know if he completely made up. Or is of true and then he used it to like to to market his book, but it was this book is banned from prisons. Yeah, because they don't want

56:51 The prisons to like the prisoners to be able to like O overtake powerful is so powerful that it's banned in prisons is Ah, just perfect marketing. Yeah, that's that's like the COVID marketing. And I I have it somewhere in my Goodreads that I'll say that I'll that I'll find it, but it it's uh

57:10 I don't even remember the title if I'm being honest, but it was like I should go all in on on uh Troubles in manipulation or what? Yeah, I mean you're we're kinda we kinda do it already. Yeah. Like I'm just saying like go all in. Yeah, just be better. Uh just do what you're doing now, but better. Is that it? Is that the pod? That's it.

57:34 I feel like I can rule the world and no way Be what I want to I put my law in it like my day song on the roadless travel, never looking back. Alright, let's take a quick break because as you know, we are on the HubSpot Podcast Network, but we're not the only ones. There's other podcasts on this network too, and maybe you liked it. Maybe you should check them out. One of them that I want to draw your attention to is called Nudge by Phil Agnew. And whether you're a marketer or a salesperson and you're looking for the small changes you can make, the new habits you could do, the small decisions you could make that will make a big difference, that's what that podcast is all about. Check it out. It's called Nudge.

58:07 And you can get it wherever you get your podcast.

What you see above is a preview of the first minutes. One unlock costs 10 credits and covers this episode forever: full segment and word-level timestamps on this page, plus .txt, .srt, .vtt and word-level JSON downloads, as many times as you like.