Story Of The Most Important Founder You've Never Heard Of

0:00 Sam, I think today we should talk about somebody who is one of the most important founders in the world. One of the most brilliant founders in the world. That nobody talks about. I feel like I can rule the world of nowhere. be what I want to

0:14 I'm putting my all in it like a day song on the roll, let's try to get the I don't even know how to say this guy's name properly. And he is One of the most important tech founders in the world. His name is Denis Hasabis. Is he currently the guy who's like warning people? Is he on a like a podcast tour warning people? No, no, no. He he's pro AI. So he's not warning people. No, then I don't know anything about him. Enlightenment. Okay. So this guy is Demis the menace is what I'm gonna call this guy, because this guy is an absolute animal. Okay, so so I watched this documentary called The Thinking Game. It's on Prime Video if anybody wants to go watch it.

0:51 I'd heard good things from some smart people, so I thought okay, let me check it out. And Let me just first lay out my case for Demis as Billy of the Week because he's kind of legendary. Okay. So I didn't understand how much of a Prodigy this guy was? And this was a documentary that was like, you know, pretty straightforward, but like this could have easily been

1:11 A movie like The Social Network. Because The social network basically covered the most transformative young, brilliant founder. From the kind of

1:20 Two thousand four to two thousand ten era, which is zuck. And it talks about Zuck in college and how he's this kid and you know, all the ups and downs he goes through trying to build this thing. Demis is maybe that guy now, him and Sam Altman. They're both basically like two guys who are Creating the most important technology. Of all time. You think those are the two guys. Those are the guys.

1:40 Well, Elon would be the other, right? So Elon's the obvious other person that needs a movie and has a crazy life, but This guy, I think, is the most, you know, underrated, less talked about for who he is. Okay, so who is he? He started this company called Deep Mind. Deep Mind got bought by Google. And Deep Mind is basically Google's AI play. And the Deep Mind team, which was basically a research team that was building AI.

2:02 is the reason that open AI exists. It is the reason that ChatGPT exists. It is the reason Elon He's interested in AI. uh was very much because Elon met with Demis. And

2:13 Basically Demis big dogged him a little bit. He was like, Oh yeah, I'm working on the most important thing. Ever. And Elon, who's building rockets and electric cars, he's like I'm saving the planet, I'm going to space. That's my portfolio. And Demis said, Well, what we're building will be the most important invention humans will ever make. It will be the last invention. It's artificial general intelligence. So a computer that can think and learn better than humans.

2:39 And the reason why this is called the last invention is because Once you invent An artificial general intelligence. It's basically like its own little species. So it's Computers that can think and learn, they will then do the thinking and learning and inventing far faster pace than we will. So they'll invent all the new shit after that. He has that conviction throughout the documentary. And he's had it since he was a kid. Okay. So the here's the here's the cool story. So that's the you know the very basic setup. But uh here's the story. So he grows up, he's got these like hippie parents

3:05 His dad like is a musician and they look like very like Bohemian. He gets into chess and by the age of six. He is one of the best chess players in the world. Amongst all humans. Or six years. So first he wins the under eight championship when he's only six. In uh in Europe. Then and he is at one point he's ranked the second best uh chess player in the world for his age. So he's like elite, elite chess player as a young kid.

3:32 And he uses his chest he would go to the his parents would basically drive him to these chest tournaments, he would win. as his t and he looks tiny. Even now he looks like baby faced. He looked like such a little kid when he's he's sitting there at these tables. And um he would basically go win prize money and then he used the prize money to buy his first computer. Okay.

3:49 So chess gets him a computer. When he gets a computer, he starts making games on the computer. He builds a chess game, builds out the little games. And he starts a hacking club with friends at school and he's basically like wow, computers and chess, like this is my life. If you had a a crit of stereotype for a good movie character who's like, you know A James Bond villain or a mega genius. This is how they all start. The stories all the time. And by the way, he tells the story of this inc incredible uh origin story. So he goes

4:15 My parents took me to this tournament. of three hundred p of best players in Europe. And it was like on a mountain in a church. And it shows the church And it shows three hundred fifty chess tables lined up. Three hundred players are gonna be there. And he's only I don't know, he's eight years old or something at this point. He's tiny. And he's playing against the like the Danish national champion, a thirty year old man is playing against him.

4:38 He describes basically this the chess tournament was uh no timer. So this turn this game with this thirty year old dude goes for ten plus hours. And he's just playing him and he's like, I'm pretty sure it's a draw. But this guy's not conceding that it's a draw, so I just have to keep playing.

4:53 And he's w this guy's just wearing out this little kid. Over hours and hours and hours. They only have like five pieces on the on the board, and it's just like a stalemate, basically, but he won't give it he won't say it's a stalemate. And he decid he describes how at the end, basically, this guy kinda like tricks him a little bit. And um He ends up losing.

5:12 When what should have been a stalemate, he makes one wrong move at the end. And the guy laughs at him, stands up and laughs and sa and says You know, you should it should have been a stalemate. You should have just done this and you would have it would have been a stalemate. Like rubs in his face, basically. And he's so upset. at this tournament and that this like kind of grown man humiliating him.

5:30 He looks around and he's just like, What am I doing? He's like, That was a horrible experience and he goes If you take the three hundred people in this room, the brain power in this room. That we're just spending st on this like, you know, ten hour tournament here. We can cure cancer.

5:44 And he's like Forget chess. I'm not going after chess anymore. Like I'm so done with chess after this bad experience. I'm gonna go for computers. I'm gonna try to figure out how to harness the brain power of humans. And combine it with computers. How do I get computers that could think? And the documentary is called Thinking Game because they interviewed him when he was like a six year old. And they're like, So why do you like a T V network was like, Why do you love chess so much?

6:07 And he goes, It's just It's a good thinking game. What a fun hang. What a funny. Can you imagine your boy played with him? Okay, so listen to this from Boy Wonder. So he gets into Cambridge, but he's too young to go. So he has to wait a year to go to Cambridge because he decides I'm gonna go to Cambridge, I'm gonna study AI. He's like

6:26 Fourteen, fifteen years old at this point. And in his gap so he's like they need him to wait a year. Can't go till he's seventeen. So he says, Okay. Why don't I try to get a job, I'll work in the meantime. And I'm not gonna do chess tournaments. I'm gonna do something with computers. And so this company called Bull Frog, which made like the most popular computer games at the time in Europe.

6:46 They were the number one production company of games. They held a contest. And it was also cool to see like Gaming was so new at the time. The C of the gaming company was like, dude, there was no recruiters. We couldn't be like, Hey, go get us the best game programmers. There were no game programmers. It wasn't even a job yet. And it just reminded me of like what the frontiers always look like. It's like Little signals of you're in the right spot. Is when

7:07 There's not even recruiters for the thing, there's no agencies yet for the thing, there's no name for the job. And for context, by the way, he's fifty years old now, he's forty nine, so we're talking the eight uh late eighties. Right, yeah, yeah, long time ago. Hey, I got something pretty cool to share with you guys. So if you're like me, you listen to podcasts or YouTube videos, you like to take notes, you're here to learn. And that's a lot of effort. Sometimes you're on the go and you can't do it.

7:30 And so the folks at HubSpot who are sponsoring the podcast have done something pretty cool for you. They have created the MFM Vault. It's a place to go find notes and resources that they pull. from the different episodes that we do. So if we have a guest on that shares their five point framework, they write down those five points with the examples that the guest gave and they put the notes there for you. So if you want to access the vault. It's totally free. All you got to do is click the link in the description below and you can access all the notes and the stuff in the vault. We're going to keep adding to this trying to make it better over time. Thank you to HubSpot. This is a very cool way for them to sponsor the podcast, but by instead of telling you To go buy their stuff. They're actually giving you something instead. So he uh enters this contest, he wins, and he gets a job there.

8:17 And the first game he works on is the did you ever play Roller Coaster Tycoon? Of course, yeah. So he was built the Europe had the equivalent called theme park, and he built theme park with this guy. They became a smash hit when he's sixteen years old. And his job in theme park. He was to m not building the the park builder, but the guest Uh the guest logic. So AI basically is like You're gonna have a thousand guests walking around, but they need to do sensible things. Like a thousand sim characters like decided to go on a ride. Got it. Yeah, that are going into your theme park. So he he's like and he and so they were like, Oh, just make them walk around on a random path. But he's like, No, no, no, this is AI. I wanna work on AI. So he goes,

8:52 He makes it so that if you make the roller coaster too crazy They'll puke. And the odds of them puking go up if there's a burger joint next to the theme next to the roller coaster. And so he creates all this logic that was not in games at the time. Like this like very intelligent logic around the autonomous characters and the even the people there were like, dude, why do you care so much about this? And he says at the time he's there's a line in the movie where he goes Today the whole world agrees with something that I knew twenty f twenty plus years ago.

9:20 That AI is the most important technology that we're ever gonna build and that that was the only thing that was worth working on. So even at the game companies working on AI. Okay, so he gets he's now seventeen, he can go to Cambridge. The guy who owns the company offers him a million pounds to stay. And he's like I'm a poor kid. I'm seventeen years old.

9:38 He offers me a million pounds more than a million dollars. And this is back into like eight million eight million USD. Yeah, we get a huge offer just to stay. And he's like, No, I wanna go I wanna build AI. So he turns it down and he stays broke and he goes to college. And ecology basically, you know, meets this other guy, the only other guy he knew that was equally obsessed with AI and neuroscience and like how the mind works and then teaching computers to think like a human mind.

10:04 And so he I thought you were gonna say that he uh like partied hard and hooked up with tons of girls. He's like we would drink beers and we would play foosball and we would talk AI. Okay, so then he he decides at some point That he's going to start this company. And now nobody really believes in AI at the time. In fact, in the scientific community. AI was not a thing. 'Cause it's not science, really. There's no like testable hypotheses that you could go do. You couldn't go into a lab and and do AI.

10:36 The entrepreneurship community also didn't really respect AI. It's the sci fi topic, no There's been no commercial companies doing this. So he's There's nobody who believes in this. Well, guess who believes when nobody believes?

10:49 Guess who loves a good old contrarian bet? Teal back Steel becomes the first backer of Deep Mind. Are you kidding me? No, so so th how how legendary is Peter Teal, that he's the origin to the other. Peter Thiel I I think that people talk about this, but I don't think it talks about enough. Where I think Tim Dillon's a comedian where he was like

11:08 Everyone thinks the president of the United States is like most powerful, but there's one person who's never around. You can't see him. But he truly runs everything. And that's Peter Thiel. And he was saying let like at Trump's inauguration, it was like JD Vance, who's a a teal guy. All the CEOs, Teal Guy, Teal Guy, Zuck, Teal Guy, you know, and it was like Peter Teal is the guy. And then I recently read a whole bunch of old quotes from him. And it's just like everything he says is timeless and has been true so often.

11:35 He's like a city, dude. He's like A place that people are from. It's very strange. Oh yeah, Zucky grew up in Teal. Uh yeah. Oh Ethereum, you like that? Well he got grew up in Teal. Oh yeah, yeah, that that's true too. It's very interesting. Elon Musk, yep. He actually first company merged with Peter Thiel's company and Teeter Teal was the CEO. So a lot of times it starts with um I was it was it Plato or Socrates where like it like well

12:01 Uh Socrates uh taught Plato, Plato taught Alexander the Great and also Aristotle. And it's sort of like there's like this one person that's like the the lineage. Yeah. It's very strange. So Teal becomes the backer. The second backer, I think, the second significant backer was Elon Musk. So Teal tells Elon about this. Elon meets Demis. Demis says that that big dog line of basically like, I'm working on the most important thing in the world. Elon, you know, is like, Wait a minute, what's going on here? He ends up funding this. Okay. So he gets a little bit of funding from some some crazy believers. And now

12:32 The part of the movie that I think is just incredible is Showing them building This monster that is AI. So when there when you say build, is there actual physical building as well? So so what they would show. No, so at at the time it's them on a whiteboard with really complicated math equations. Talking about well, what if we took this technique from

12:53 deep learning and we uh merged it with this this technique over here about neural nets and like, you know, what if we could get something new? And that's what they did is they they got Q star plus deep learning, you know, they combined these two different ways of learning. Don't ask me what any of those words mean. But the thing they show is a little TV screen with the Atari game of Pong. And so it's so funny that this whole thing starts with Pong and it starts with dams and so much like

13:18 You had the most brilliant people in the world. Staring at this Atari game, trying to be like How can we teach the computer? to play this game. And he he talks about like because he grew up on chess He was super competitive and games were how he learned to think. He's like, Maybe games will be how the computer learns to think.

13:36 Because games have rules, they have rewards. They have like clear definite you can they have a a a board where you can see all the information. And you could do it a bunch of times and get better and better and better and better. You can run a lot of simulations very quickly. So the rate of learning, just like how he basically was like, the way kids learn is games. So maybe that's the way we can build a childlike computer program to also learn. I think one of his breakthroughs was like when they played the Asian game, right? Yeah, so before that, it starts with Pong. I didn't actually know this. And they they basically said, look

14:07 Don't tell it anything about Pong. Just tell it one thing. Score go up is good. So at the beginning they show it and they're all watching it. They're all just like sitting there watching and the the computer hits it. Like the game hits it and then their AI player

14:21 Like doesn't even move its paddle. It's like oh Down one. Next time it like moves its paddle the wrong way. We're down two.

14:29 Next time. Moves his paddle the wrong way. Almost recovers, but misses it. Down three. And then it hits the ball once and they're all like But then it still loses the point. And it basically over you know, it starts out Terrible.

14:42 By a hundred games. It's competitive. By two hundred games, it's like as good as the best humans at playing the game. And by five hundred games, it's never losing a point. They're like

14:52 Okay. That was Remarkable. Uh let's carry on. And so they had this first objective which is Let's without telling it'cause again, the call the goal was he goes, What is AGI? It's

15:03 It can think and it can learn. So we can't just tell it the rules, we can't just tell it how to win, we can't give it strategy and then it executes it. No no no. It has to figure it out itself. Like a kid learning how to walk and it stumbles and it starts to figure out, Oh, if I put my center of mass here, that's how I walk. So they wouldn't tell it anything about the game except for Whoever has the higher score at the end, that's a good thing. Go for it, computer.

15:25 And so they would t and then they they had it learn like fifty games. So then the next one was like Brickbreaker. If you've ever played that game on Blackberry. Where it's like breaking breaks and it And it says the same thing. A hundred games.

15:35 Terrible. Two hundred games, pretty good. As good as most humans. Five hundred games, it's unstoppable. And it figured out this strategy in Brick Breaker where you tunnel in through the sides and then the the ball will just keep bouncing on the top and break all the bricks on its own without it having to hit you. And it's like, Okay, that's cool.

15:51 Next let's do chess. So that they show it doing chess. And the one of the kind of like the first aha moments was It started to invent its own Strategy a little bit.

16:01 But just a little bit like oh it's got its own style. Okay, that's kind of interesting. It's got its own little attacking style. That's pretty cool. It beats Stockfish, which is the best chess. program out there and they're like, Well, that's good because Stockfish beats all the pros. If this beats stockfish, that means it's the best at chess. Then they went to go. And so go uh I didn't entirely understand what it almost looks like Chinese checkers, but it sounds like it's more complicated and they claim that it's the most complicated game on earth because it has the most permutations on how you could possibly win or lose.

16:30 Right. There are more board configurations in Go than there are atoms in the universe. So you can't Like just Think it through you know, there's too many combinations. So you have to be actually

16:40 fluid that in any situation you're in Be able to figure out the right move. So people had always thought Go is too hard. No computers had ever beaten Go before. And so they

16:50 start and they this is called they created this program called Alpha Go. So Alpha Go, basically what they did. Which was this is kinda nerdy, but I I liked hearing how they did it actually. They gave it a thousand Or a thousand or a hundred thousand games from strong amateur players. They said here's a hundred thousand games. Learn from this.

17:07 Pass game. The play by play. Uh yeah, like the move by move thing. And it learns all that. And then it said Cool, based on what you learn. Now play yourself.

17:18 So based on what you know, you play yourself. See if you can get better. And it played itself like a million times. Okay, so that's kinda interesting. Maybe that'll get a new result. So they go to Korea. For this test. They're like, We're gonna go play this guy Lee Sadol. And Lisa Dole is, you know, a grandmaster go player. He's one of the best players

17:35 of the past, you know, two decades. He's the man. And they show them like getting off the plane and there's like hundreds of photographers taking pictures like today, the computer versus man, man versus machine. And like I didn't actually see any of this when this was happening. I don't know if you did either, but like again, in the small corner of the earth. Dude, this storyline is as old as John Henry. Do you remember John Henry who is like you know the strongest man? The strongest man who is using the jackhammer through the mountain trying to race the uh the new steam engine who can like pile through stuff. And he works And he's trying to beat the steam engine and he works so hard that his heart explodes. And it's like sh and that's like the story. It's the uh the legend. Yeah, so that's that's like story line, it's perfect.

18:16 So they sit down and the game is going as usual. And th they they have a line from Eric Schmidt. So Eric Schmidt It's from Google. He was the former CEO of Google. And a super technical guy. And he and Google had bought Deep Mind at this point. Do I sell the price? One of the greatest deals of all time, potentially.

18:32 So they bought it for I think four hundred million pounds. So it was like, you know, five hundred something million dollars. And there's a great line from Demis in this. I don't know if you saw this part where they're like His investors didn't want to sell. And he goes, he said this line that I really Like

18:47 It was kind of a frame breaker for me. I don't I don't think most people when they listen to this line would even think twice about it, but for me it was a little bit of a frame break. He was basically in like a frenzy. He's like, this is so important. There's so much to do. My life is only so long. I wanna see this happen. And he's like We have so much to do. If we can just get this funding and be left alone to go do what we needed to do. Yeah.

19:07 Then I might actually get to see this thing in my lifetime. And that's what matters. And he's like What's a few billion dollars for five years extra of my life getting to work on this? He was like, Would you trade a few billion dollars? He's he goes, I could sell for a few extra more billion and make up billions of dollars, but let me ask you something. If you're gonna die, would you spend billions of dollars to live an additional five years? Of course you would. That's what he said he was gonna do here. It's such a good line. I I actually someone changed my perspective on having children. Someone was like, Do you think you're gonna love your kids when they're born? And I was like, Yeah. He's like

19:37 Well then why wouldn't you have them sooner so you have an additional like life with them. Time with them. Yeah. He has another line later that's kinda like this. He goes, um He was talking about like W what a new breakthrough that they were gonna have? And he's like, It's gonna both be the most exciting thing ever. How will we get sleep? I won't be able to sleep. And he was just like that fired up ten years into the mission.

19:59 And so I just thought like when people talk about mission driven This is what they mean. When the guy's like There's so much to do. I don't know if it'll happen in my lifetime. The most exciting thing in my life is if this happens while I'm still alive.

20:12 I will do everything in my power to make this happen while I'm still alive. And I thought that that was just like a next level of mission driven excitement. I want to read you a cool quote. Um okay, so I'm reading this book. Can you see this? It sounds silly, but hear me out. The quick and easy way way to effective speaking by Dale Carnegie. Oh, very cool. So Dale Carnegie, you know, wrote famously wrote how to win friends and influence people. Uh he was actually more famous origin originally because he created the Dale Carnegie speaking program. And so they had locations all over the country and hundreds of thousands of people went through his programs.

20:44 Including Warren Buffett, who says it was the most important class he ever took and he had the diploma from the speaking class on his wall next to his office, not his college. Diploma, you know. And he even taught he was a Dale Carnegie instructor. And uh there's this amazing quote and so basically Dale Carnegie, one of his premises is that public speaking, he calls it the uh the royal road to self confidence. He says if you want to be a more confident person, you should actually learn how to public speak. But when you control the minds of of many men, you control yourself, you know, it makes you more confident. And one of his um

21:13 axioms or whatever for how you get better is you have to envision the end goal. And he has this amazing quote from William James, where it's like it's like the godfathers of like modern psychology. And there's amazing quote of William James. He says In almost any subject, your passion for the subject will save you. If you care enough for a result, you will most certainly attain it. If you wish to be good, you will be good. If you wish to be rich, you will be rich. If you wish to be learned, You will be learned.

21:38 Only then you must really wish these things and wish them with exclusiveness and not wish one hundred other incompatible things just as strongly. And his point being is Whatever you truly want, if you want it bad enough, your passion will carry you enough to acquire all the skills and have the determination to see it through the end. And I was gonna I wrote this down that this guy You see it from the beginning. And where he is now, this quote applies to him.

22:06 That's great. Today's episode is brought to you by HubSpot. Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book, but then tearing out four fifths of the pages. Point is you miss a lot. And unless you're using HubSpot, the customer platform that gives you access to the data you need to grow your business, the insights that are trapped in emails, call logs, transcripts, all that unstructured data makes all the difference because when you know more, you grow more. And so if you want to read the whole book instead of just reading part of it, visit hubspot.com. Okay, little segue. Have you ever seen the Tony Robbins TED talk he gave?

22:39 So Tony's normal talk is like a seminar is like a four day Twelve hours a day on stage thing. So TED Talk is 18 minutes. So he gets on stage. He's like, All right, like I usually talk for twelve hours a time. Let's see what I can do in eighteen minutes. And he gets to this point in the talk and he's like What stops us from getting what we want? And then people are like I I don't he goes, I don't have the and people are like

23:02 Time. He's like, Yeah, all right, time. I don't have the Money, I don't have the skills, I don't have the network, I don't have And he writes all these resources that you lack down. And then one guy in the crowes

23:13 I didn't have the Supreme Court Justices and he looks through the darkness, he's like, Who said that? It was Al Gore. Yeah, Al Gore. It was Al Gore who had just lost the presidential election. In I remember in Florida there was a recount and the justice he was like two justices short or something like that. And everybody has a big laugh. And then Tony says he goes

23:33 You know. I don't think that's why you lost. Because I saw you yesterday on this Ted stage talking about climate change. You know, Gore is like super passionate about climate change. He was like one of the big advocates for climate change. And he goes. If you had done if you had talked like that in your presidential debates, you'd have never needed the Supreme Court justices. You were on fire yesterday. I didn't see that when you were debating Bush.

23:55 And he basically says he goes The only resource you need is resourcefulness, he goes, Because look, if you're Just like you said, if you're just lit on fire. To do something. You just ask yourself the following question. Like if I'm determined enough, if I'm charismatic enough, if I'm charming enough, if I'm playful enough, if I'm creative enough.

24:13 If I am like motivated enough, I'm persistent enough, can I not achieve anything I want? Can I not overcome all those things that I lacked? It's like of course, like You didn't have the resources, you didn't have the money. Well, but if you're determined and you're charming and you're persuasive, you'll go get the funding. Yeah, it's like this master skill that's underneath. And so I find my I I often I actually catch myself doing this all the time where

24:34 I feel like I lacked something and I'll literally go say that almost like an a like an affirmation. Like well if I'm playful enough and I'm determined enough and I'm charismatic enough and I'm persuasive enough and I'm determined enough. Like, can I not can I not get this thing I want? Of course I can. Like Oh, they're closed?

24:48 I could probably get them to open. Oh, this guy said no? I could probably get him to say yes. Right. And then like each one of those things th that's like a a just like this universal skill we all have, if you remind yourself. That's pretty badass. And I don't even think you need to be charming charming. This guy Demis, um He was Pretty

25:05 Black and white, but when I listen to him I'm like You're an unstoppable force. You you care about the so much. He is what Paul Graham calls a fierce nerd. I think that p fierce nerd essay is actually Hall of Fame level for Paul Graham, and you see it when you see something like Demis and how competitive he is with foosball and chess.

25:22 And then he's also that way. With trying to win. So like protein folding problem. All right, back to the story. So They're sitting there with the best Korean go player in the world.

25:31 least at all. And there's this move. Move thirty seven. And I think if they write the book of humanity or The movie of humanity.

25:42 Move thirty seven is like The uh oh moment. It's like the moment in movies where, you know, in a rom com, it's when the guy bumps into the girl, she drops her papers on the ground, then they pick him up and he they look each other in the eyes. It's like the spark. This is the spark of like where AI really took off.

25:59 And it's move thirty seven. So basically they're playing Lisa Adult. The expectation is Lisa and all will win'cause Go is so hard and he's the best. But we'll put up a good showing. We'll be as good as the best players against Lisa Ital. And in move thirty seven. The computer does something and right away the announcers are like, Oh my.

26:17 Oh what is that? And Lisa Adole, you can literally they show him like sweating and thinking and he's like What the hell just happened? They go and they go, I think we might have just seen an original move. By AlphaGo.

26:29 And At least it all is like just He doesn't know what to do. He's like really perplexed by this movement. They go, No human would have made that move. And it was the first time that it wasn't just pattern matching.

26:42 W like let's mimic what a what a human would do or say, but less good than a human would say or do it. Or maybe it's a little bit faster'cause it's a computer, but it's still doing what a human would do. It was the first time it was like That was novel. That was a creative breakthrough. And it beats Lisa Dole. It's like when the uh like in a horror movie, like the robot turns you says

27:01 I'm in charge now. Like this is that moment. Exactly. I d I had never actually seen the clip. And the way the movie shows it, I think is wonderful. So then Right afterwards, Eric Schmidt's like holy shit.

27:14 And he goes to Demist and he goes. What's next? Where does this end? And he goes When we beat the Chinese guy. I didn't even know about this part. It's like then there was a Chinese guy who was the actual number one ranked player in the world.

27:27 They go to China to play this guy. And now it's like, what's gonna happen? This computer just beat Lisa little is it can it beat the Chinese guy? And I just love that they even called him the Chinese guy. It was like the most relatable thing that this absolute super genius with like a ten thousand IQ said. I was like oh He's just like me. He just we would just call him the Chinese guy. Um like that that was cool. And so they go and they play.

27:48 Had you ever heard about this? No. So I just if you go on YouTube and you type in Move thirty seven, there's videos with hundreds of thousands and millions of views, and it's all like for example, retelling the story of Move thirty seven. Or there's Magnus Carlson uh talking about like how Move thirty seven teaches you about XYZ. Like it's it's become like an acronym or like an analogy for like um Yeah, exactly. It's like Exactly. What it is, a four minute mile. Like it's just a phrase that doesn't even mean move thirty seven anymore. It's going grown beyond that. Totally, totally.

28:19 I see your little public speaking brain is picking up on all these little uh you know, magic the magic of f of tiny words, huh? Thanks, Dale. Thanks to the Thanks today, Dave Carnegie. Thank you. Um Okay, so then it goes to they play the Chinese guy. Now here's the crazy thing about playing the Chinese guy. Alpha goes whooping ass. And it's like putting the pressure on the number one. He's actually a pretty young looking guy. But the crazy thing is

28:47 As he starts to put the pressure on the Chinese guy. They cut the feed in China. No way, how badass is that? They cut the feet of the broadcast they're like no, we will not show her we will not lose face like this. And they call that in the movie. They're like, this is like the sputneck moment where China was like, Wake up call, we're getting into AI. And so this actually triggered the AI race for why China got so into it and how they cut the feed so dramatic. I thought that was incredible. That's crazy. Okay. Awesome.

29:16 Okay, so then they go they continue with the games and those fast forward. They do Starcraft next, which Starcraft's interesting just from a uh why why Starcraft? Because both players are playing at the same time. So it's not turn by turn. Like you go Starcraft. I don't know what it is. Yeah, I think it's called like a m a MOBA or whatever. It's like basically a game where you you know, you have a map, you have characters a little bit, but you have a base, they have a base, you gotta attack their base with characters, you gotta move them around the map. There's a fog of war, the whole map is not revealed. Both players are playing simultaneously. So now it's even harder. I don't play that, but anyway, so there's this main character. Here's what he does. I don't play Starcraft, but I you know, I've been around enough dworks to know enough. Th it doesn't actually beat the best Starcraft player in the world. Okay, but it was a good good showing. Anyways.

30:03 Then I think what's what's just What's the next stuff? What's the next stuff that really stood out to me? There's this one last part about protein folding. So are you are you familiar with what they've been doing with this? Uh I all I know is that no one had ever solved it and basically within days or weeks or something like that, they solved something that took fifty years to get up to that point in progress. Actually it took years, which is cool. I didn't actually realize this. So So Demis is basically talking about they're like all right.

30:29 We did good in games. But he's like before AGI he's like He's basically AI assisted science is gonna be the thing. And I don't think this gets talked about very much nowadays. Like maybe in a pile like maybe it could cure cancer. But this guy's seriously like no AI should cure cancer. Hath can or math or that type of like uh how chat GPT cures cancer. It's like that link seems very important. Like why do you need more data and more effort? Like like it's it's it's as if like in order to cure cancer, you're just like uh let's throw these fifty drug at'em.

31:01 Oh, that one kinda worked. Let's like soup up the drug and throw it five fifteen more times. You know, that's sort of how in your head you think cure cancer, not like can you math your way out of it. Correct. What I've realized in watching this and hanging out with AI people is One of the most important things in the world is basically prediction. So I remember I invest in this

31:20 Guy who was a self driving car entrepreneur. He had worked at at the Uber self driving car team and he took me to this little garage and he had this like golf cart that he's then like rigged into twenty nineteen or eighteen, right? This was pre pandemic. Maybe before that, maybe. Yeah. I remember that was that was probably the time. It was yeah, right before I started my fund. So twenty eighteen, twenty nine. You're right. And um he drove me around in a self driving golf cart in a self storage facility. So it's like you get a peak of the future like Whoa, that was.

31:47 Amazing. Um, this is you know, before Tesla had it and whatever. But like it wasn't perfect. You could only do it in a very controlled, you know, environment. But he basically said, Like, look Everybody who's working on this knows there's these like four or five steps of self driving. And I didn't I don't remember all of them, but one was like

32:03 Predict, you know, so it's basically like vision. So you gotta see the world. Then Based on what you see, the next step is prediction. So Okay, I saw that that car was right there. Where will it be in two seconds? I need to predict where it's going to be.

32:14 That's the whole like basis of self driving is Planning Prediction, there's like an action step, whatever. So there's like five steps. So that that kind of planning a prediction step is the key. to how AI affects all these industries. So

32:26 Chat GPT is planning and prediction of what is the next token or the just word. What's the next word that would probably go in this sentence. You know the Um roses are Red.

32:38 I think it's gonna be red because I've seen roses are red so many times that my my prediction score very confidently would say The next word in the roses are is Red. Okay, great. How do self driving cars work? Same thing.

32:51 If I see a car there, my prediction is it's gonna be here in the next one second. So therefore I need to do a new action. The same thing applies to science and curing all these diseases, which is You need to know what a protein structure looks like. Based on the shape of the protein structure. You can then if you can predict the protein structure.

33:09 Then it's not so hard to figure out What should you attach to it to either like destroy that Protein or Uh soup it up and make it more strong or whatever, right? You know where to bind on the protein. Okay, so

33:21 I didn't know about this thing, but it's called Casp. So Casp is this co competition that been going on for years. And it's basically the Olympics of protein folding. So if you do like a a sequence, you're like amino acids, it's oh it's got this amino acid, this amino acid, this amino acid, you get just 10 amino acids. Cool, you know what's in it, but you don't know what it looks like. Okay. You don't know the f the structure how it's folded up into this like little tiny knot.

33:43 A very unique structure. When you say folding, figure out the shape of the knot. The shape of it. And you need to know the shape in order for what? To design a drug that's gonna do anything to it. Who could who could kill it or grow it or shrink it? Like imagine I said, Hey, you're gonna park this car at this address.

34:01 Cool. But if you don't know what the garage looks like, you're just gonna smash into the house, right? Like you might know the location of it. But you don't know where to park the car. So how do you park the drug? That's gonna attack this, that's gonna either kill it or enhance it. You need to know with the shape of it.

34:17 So the way they do it is one by one. So they so they create this competition to be like, can anyone use computers to predict the protein folding?'Cause doing this manually is Untenable. And For years, if you look at the graph, it was like, you know, like kind of this like twenty percent, thirty percent prediction accuracy. Like

34:32 A decade. So Demis decides he's like, This is what we're gonna do. We're gonna throw our resources behind this. And the first time they do it, they win the competition. But they're like

34:42 Great. We're trying to go to the moon and we just have the like the tallest ladder. Like the latter doesn't get you to the move. And so they were actually incredibly disappointed. And he's like This was like a bitter taste of We really tried.

34:56 We won, but Not by enough to even solve the protein like we're here to solve the protein folding problem, not win the competition. And to solve it, you need ninety percent plus accuracy. And he describes this like the next year where they basically are like, So we went back to the drawing board. Try to come up with new ideas and he I thought it was a cool CEO moment. So he was like

35:17 I know when you need to come up with a creative idea, you can't Force it, like squeezing it doesn't make creativity come out. When you just push the team. We need an answer now. That's interesting because that's the opposite of what I would think and

35:31 there have been people who would say constraints are the answer. So they used constraints. But what they didn't do was basically like put everybody into fight or flight mode. Because when you're in Fighter Fight, it's kinda like why your best ideas come to you when you're in the shower or when you're relaxed or when you when you're sleep or when you're on a walk. Because the brain like

35:50 You have two modes. One is Executive mode where you're doing tasks. And that's good at doing tasks. But it's not good at making new connections between

35:59 existing fuzzy data. Dude, that's so interesting because this is how Henry Ford, so uh Henry Ford, um Uh one of the th basically there's an engine block. So it's a block of of metal and you put cylinders in there and that's how um a car combustible engine works. But before that was one block. It used to be two blocks and it kept breaking. Imagine two blocks and Screwed things together and it was he was holding them back from taking over the world. Henry Ford got a team of four engineers of the company of thousands of people, and he goes

36:30 Brought them to a small office, he goes, This is your guys' workshop. And they're like, What are we doing? He's like, You see that big ass block of metal? Uh And they're like, Henry, sir, that's impossible. He goes,

36:42 I'll see you guys in a quarter. And apparently the story is is that he went back uh like eight quarters in a row. So it was something like two years. And then finally they got it. But it took two years. But he did allow them This is four of you, this is your job, just figure it out and let me know. Exactly. And this is also how if you read about like Steve Jobs with the he was like no keyboard on the phone. And they were like, But the Blackberry, you know, keyboard, like you gotta write emails.

37:06 Si No keyboard on the phone. And they're like But how would we the accuracy of the s I mean, screens today don't Exactly No keyboard on the phone. And so then they had to go invent multi touch and figure it out. So he gave them the constraint, the cr you gotta do it in this these are the constraints.

37:23 But then I give you the time to go explore and figure out like which path might work. That's interesting. Uh and they they they also did this with the game thing, by the way. When they did the go thing, the first one was again train on a hundred thousand games. Then they created Alpha Zero where they said Now try to make it win with no prior human knowledge.

37:40 'Cause he's like, if we're ever gonna do new novel things You gotta assume we were not gonna have a database of a hundred thousand good humans at doing this to use. And so they did they create an alpha zero which could win in chess and go. With n just by playing itself.

37:54 Like ten million times or whatever. It figured it out. And so similarly here, they were like, You gotta go back to John Burton. He described he goes First. I'm gonna give them the constraints. Second, I'm gonna let them be creative and try to go go to the drawing board, figure out multiple different possible ways this might work.

38:08 He goes. And then when they pick one, he goes, I know this is when it's time to push. He goes because First we will get worse. than we were before. Then after some time

38:17 We'll pick an approach and we'll get right back close to where we were before. He goes, and that's when it's time to push. I've seen it so many times before, it will explode through. And I was like, That's pretty dope how he kind of Had developed judgment on the scientific process and the creative process enough to know. When do you push and when do you not push. Dude, that's so great. We're learning all these techniques and I'm putting it all together. Hermozy had this cool thing that he said when I talked to him once. He was like basically I've noticed that when you start something new,

38:45 the results go down twenty percent right off the bat. So if you're sit training your sales team on something new, their conversion rate is actually gonna drop from fifty percent down to uh you know, it'll drop twenty twenty percent. So down ten points. Um but Eventually it will go up. if you pick the right thing. And so the question is basically make sure you pick the right thing because if it's gonna go down twenty percent, that means you need it to double it it's improvement in order for it to be worth it. So you pick the right thing. Otherwise you're just back to square one and you went down twenty percent for a a quarter. Right.

39:15 And so knowing that these J curve progress things exist is important because the amateur would panic. The amateur would would not go forward. Or bring down bring everything down. Therefore make your project selection perfect. Or high high quality. Right. And so he anyways, they end up Crushing the thing.

39:38 And um they they show kind of like how they did it. They they end up getting ninety percent prediction accuracy. And they basically solve the single protein folding. Question. Now there's also like multi protein and there's like Variations.

39:52 Now now they moved on to harder things. But it's pretty crazy that the the line graph was like, you know, twenty thirty percent, twenty three percent, and then went to ninety in one year when they like went back to the drawing board and figured it out. And how ecstatic they were. They're like, Yo, this This just changed the world. People don't realize this yet. But this just changed the world.

40:09 And it's reminded me of your inflections thing, which we should say. What what do what is your describe your inflections thing for entrepreneurs? I think it's one of the best like axioms or principles you have on entrepreneurship. Yeah, basically and and and and I I didn't invent this. I think it was Maples, Mike Maples, I I think. I don't remember exactly. But um basically the idea is that in order for a lot of like big breakthrough ideas to truly happen, not like small businesses that make tens of millions of dollars, but like culture changing companies. You basically have to have inflections. And so there's a handful of inflections that matter. There could be regulatory inflections. So during COVID, uh better help and all these telemedicine things existed because we changed the rules on who who doctors can serve. It could be um

40:49 cultural inflection. So like the Me Too movement, that changed a a bunch of stuff. Or it could be why does Uber exist? Well there was a technology technology inflection. Everyone now had a a cell phone that had GPS on their phone. Therefore they could call an Uber wherever they they were And there's about five or six different categories of inflections and you have to spot the inflections to know what's actually worth like going after because that you need an inflection in order for a right culture changing company to exist. So I think this I think this Alpha Fold stuff where figuring out the protein folding is is a massive inflection. And

41:23 I didn't really know what the businesses were around this. But I kinda like Googled afterwards I was like, you know, I was talking to And asking it about this. So there's some pretty cool companies. I didn't realize first of all, Google has their own Company they spun out from this. So isomorphic lab. So basically

41:37 Google has spun out this company that is Basically trying to cure all disease. That's the mission. No big deal. And their thought process is like, Well, with AI, we can You know, from first principles change the way that drug development and discovery works.

41:52 'Cause if we can predict how the proteins fold. Then we can They have a way higher hit rate on the targets we designed with the drugs. Then we should be able to simulate if it's gonna work with it before we even get to clinical trials. We should be able to run

42:06 You know, th hundreds of thousands of simulations to see how effective this is gonna be to get the probability of success higher. So that when we enter a trial We have a way higher hit rate. And this company, by the way, their first round of funding was six hundred million dollars. Um

42:20 to as they spun it out of Google and Deep Mind. And Demis is the CEO, I think, of Isomorphic Labs. And so like you know, there's a There's a world where Google becomes the drug company that, you know Cures like right now they're working on malaria and like these different things. G deep mud.

42:36 As well. Yeah. Well. The H one on isomorphic labs.com with the headline is solve all disease. We're entering a new era of drug discovery, one where the frontier of AI can unlock deeper insights, faster breakthroughs, and life changing medicines. If I was uh doing a Sarah's list episode right now. Isomorphic labs would be one of those where I'd be like, Go

42:55 Go be a PR person there. Go go be a uh junior account manager there. Yeah, does the cafeteria workers yeah, yeah, you guys uh show up and you say, Hey, I I'm the best coffee bringer. to your desk or ever. Give me a job here. I will find ways to be useful every single day, whether it's in any job you have, I need to be at this company. Because I I can't I can't think of a you know How many companies have a more noble mission, but actually a shot of cracking it, because there's a new tech vector to to go chase. So um how does the the the documentary like where where does he leave it? The

43:29 And is weird because it's actually like the beginning they're still in the beginning stages of what they're doing. Right. So it's like They end the documentary, but it's like The AI stuff is just starting to work. So they end it with

43:41 After the Alpha Fold thing, people like all these Sci like it's a big thing in the science community. And so all these researchers and drug companies were like, Hey, can we get access to this? Because if we know protein structures. This will be tremendously helpful. So they're like, Oh, we should set up like a service where you can request a protein. And then we tell you how it's folded.

43:58 And then blah blah blah. And then Dennis was like Can we just Fold all the proteins? And they're like what?

44:05 And he's like How long would it take to fold all proteins known in existence? And they're like that in like two months. Well why don't we do that? Let's fold'em and give it all away. And he's like, Let's just make it open for anybody. Let's go run the computer, fold all the proteins.

44:20 Give it all away. And so that's what they did at the end. They folded Two hundred million plus basically every known protein in existence. And they made it available and the end is basically like researchers from around the world showing up on their Google Analytics, like logging in. We have a hundred thousand concurrent users. We have you know

44:37 th they now have three million users and that's everyone from like Someone in Africa running, you know, a small lab to universities to Eli Lilly. who are all using them to uh to us to be smarter and better about how they do, you know, medicine. Dude, how are all the guys who work at isomorphic labs and deepmind and denimists, how are they all not like Andrew Tate looking dudes, like the most tan, like a jack dudes ever. Cause like if you can cure taking peptides. If you can cure all disease, like how are they not like the hottest people on earth? I think the way you become that smart is you don't care about stuff like that. Right? Like No. You become that smart because you are bullied. But now you're gonna seek you're gonna seek revenge. And the the issue with bullying going away is that none of these nerds are gonna exist.

45:29 Yeah. Why does he not look like Adonis? That's my question. I think when Larry uh I don't pay attention to the news too much, but when Larry Ellison and um Masa Sun and Trump and uh Uh m Altman did this thing where it was like You know. A hundred trillion dollars or some like ludicrous number. Uh th it was under the premise of like this is gonna cure disease and Larry Elson, I do know that Larry Elson's in his eighties, I think, or close or close. Looking good, Larry. Close to and he's looking great.

46:04 And his wife like is like a thirty year old, but for some reason they don't look like that much of a different age, even though there is literally a fifty year difference. And it was under the premise of like we you know, Larry's interested in solving and therefore we must do that. Whenever I hear that, I just think that's just words that are meaningless. But now that I know a little bit more about the topic just from you now. Is that actually a legitimate thing? Well, I'm glad you're asking me, because as a premed student time, I'm clearly an expert of this. No, it's hard to know. Someone who took one class on this fifteen years ago. Somebody got a see in physics had to repeat. Had to repeat in the summer. It's like on Instagram when people report like you see like uh Instagram videos of people with their children and like the kids like on an iPad or screaming and someone's like, Well, as a mother, I could never it's like dude You mean as a human being like I don't care. Okay, you don't like As a mother does not mean that you are right.

46:58 Shot's fired. Mom, not special. Yeah. As a as a father. Like brother. I don't care. There's a line where they're talking to like one of the OGs of artificial intelligence and they were saying like what are predictions? And he goes It's hard to predict what's gonna happen as we

47:20 make this intelligence into super intelligence. It goes it's like asking a gorilla To explain Einstein's theory of relativity. And when I heard that I go Oh yeah, we're we're the gonna be we're gonna be the gorillas.

47:33 Thing, right? Because Clearly if you're making intelligence smarter than any human. You're creating, you know, the next race. It's like To an animal. They if they just saw a human at first, they'd be like, Yeah, it looks kinda skinny.

47:46 I think I little funny little extra appendage on their hand, you know, all right, cool. They they they walk upright. Oh cool. But they're pretty slow actually. And then you're like, Fast forward, you know, two hundred years. And

47:58 You know, you see the blue angels flying above you, you know. Two thousand years maybe I don't know. Speaking of gorillas, we are a few brain cells away from gorillas. But just like what humans have done is like kind of incomprehensible to any to our closest animal. You know, a relative. That's what's gonna happen here, which I think is pretty crazy.

48:23 All right, let's take a quick break because I gotta tell you a story. Let me tell you about the first time I tried to run payroll for my team. I was using a traditional bank and you know the type. It's got a janky interface. It's built like a two thousand and two tax form and it was open only during business hours. And I hit send. And it froze. They flagged the transaction, they locked my account, they put me on hold for 45 minutes, and then they told me I gotta visit my local branch. And that was the day I started looking for a new banking solution. Uh after asking a few founders what they were using, I found out about Mercury. And so now my payroll is two clicks. I can wire money, I can pay invoices, I can reimburse the team.

48:54 All from one clean dashboard. That's why I use it for all of my companies. And so do two hundred thousand other startup founders. And so if you're looking to level up your banking, head to mercury.com and apply in minutes. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided through Choice Financial Group, call them NA, and Evolve Bank and Trust members FDIC.

49:12 Uh, I don't know if you listen to Mark Manson. He's he's the man. Basically he wrote this um he did a podcast. I think it was his second most recent one. It's about um it's a Q and A, maybe. Uh finding your purpose, failing better, and the AI future. So that was um it was basically like an end of the year Q and A, which we actually did as well. And he tells the story about how he built an AI product recently.

49:31 And so someone asked him, What do you think about the future of AI? And he was like, Well, I just built an AI product and what I I realized a few things. One AI is amazing in that it's better than ninety-five percent of people at certain things, but the vast majority of value created by in in the world is created by people who are ninety-nine point nine percent better at People than human things. Like you still need these experts. And AI can be great, but it's not an expert. But then he also said You know, there's maximalists who think that AI is gonna come really soon and take over the world and we're all gonna be worthless. And then there's other people who think that, you know, it might happen over many decades, but we're probably gonna be fine. And he was like, I tend to be in that category. And the reason being is that when a lot of people think about

50:11 uh AI, they think that it's just gonna take all of our jobs and we're not gonna work anymore. But human desire Is not fixed. And when you're thinking about uh AI, oftentimes people think desire is fixed, meaning once you hurt hit a certain level of productivity. You will not do stuff.

50:27 And he's like, that's just false. For example, if we look at the industrial revolution, people said the same thing when uh certain stuff started happening. And then you look at like the Victorian area where we started getting electricity, things like that, people made the same claim of We're not gonna work again. We need universal income and all this stuff. And he's like Humans just always want more. And because of that, I don't think that

50:47 There's never gonna be a point where we are useless. It's just gonna be different. And I thought that was a really great perspective on it. And that's one of the first times I've heard a perspective on it, other than maybe Darmesh talking about it, where I felt Calmer. Hum desire's is not fixed. We will evolve. Mm-hmm.

51:03 Yeah. It's interesting. I don't know. Have you read this there's this book I haven't read it yet, but it's called If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies. I don't think I'm gonna be reading that one. Yeah. I mean it's a crazy documentary and I think You know, w one my meta takeaway is I love that they were filming this the whole time. I'm

51:23 Glad that smartphones and video and these video platforms are so popular now that because Imagine ten years from now. I think we're gonna have ten times the number of like documentary behind the scenes building it type of things. Right now it feels like a fluke whenever this happens. For example,

51:39 We did a podcast about the Kanye documentary. And the craziest thing about the Kanye documentary is not about Kanye, it's about the guy who just decided You know what? I'm gonna just film this young guy In Chicago. Over a ten year period. I'cause I think he's got something here.

51:55 Which is like one of the greatest calls ever. Um, you know, before Kanye was Kanye, this guy started filming. And I think we were lucky that that ever happened. That's like a lottery ticket level win. For society that that That that guy just decided to film this

52:10 religiously when there was no reason to believe that That he should do that. Conor McGregor did this. On his way up and he's like I'm gonna be the best. You know, like yeah, I'm a plumber now and there's never been an Irish champion, but I'm gonna do it. And he basically started filming

52:25 A documentary at the and because of that You get this incredible look at the like what it was like on the come up. It's incredibly inspirational whenever this happens. I'm just glad that this that they did this and I'm I hope more people do this. That was that was my like big picture takeaway was really not even about deep mind itself.

52:44 And that I was gonna say that that um Like The need for like Human craft.

52:50 Goods. So for example, you could buy anything you want, but like some people still want like the handmade shit from Italy and they want to know the story behind it. And when you were talking about the story about him playing the Chinese guy and the Korean guy. Like there's still a human is half of the story. And arguably like it I mean not arguably it was is necessary to the story. We are still drawn to stories and story is in my head is sort of an analogy to like where humans fit into this thing. We're still f uh drawn to these like human elements of all of these stories, which makes me believe like, well we have to be part of this experience and like we're not gonna be completely outsourced because it's what the most interesting part is that this genius guy

53:27 has called his shot this whole time and has been interested in this for years. Like that's actually the most compelling part. Yeah. Yeah. Although, you know, I think you don't want to be relegated to like Well, we'll still make handmade goods. It's like that's the one percent, ninety nine percent is the is the mass manufacturer things. You also don't want it to be where Well, we'll always be interested in human like entertainment and it's like but everything else will be done by the AI. No, but I don't mean that. But I mean like You know, like when you fly on a plane, you're not like, Can I get the one where the pilot's doing all the work?

53:54 Right, you're like, Okay, cool, this is like run by a computer that's way safer than a pilot. Great, I'm there's I'm glad there is a pilot, but like the computer can fly. I just think that I'm not I st I mean part of me is nervous, but I do like Um well a big part of me is actually n nervous, but most of me like well some people say uh Some people say uh it's not that big of a deal. Most don't.

54:18 Most don't, but some do. Uh I just think that like we still are gonna play an important role. And like I I'm not too worried. Although I am very worried. There's also this funny thing that happened on the documentary point. Did you see the founder of Robin Hood talking about his documentary?

54:41 No, what do you say? So I didn't know this. Vlad from Robin Hood. When Robin Hood was getting started, he put up a Kickstarter. Saying, Hey, I'm gonna try to build this company.

54:51 That's gonna change the way the financial markets work. And if you guys fund ten thousand dollars, we'll film it because how cool would it be to see Steve Jobs building Apple. How cool would it be to s have seen, you know, these guys building Google. Like that's what we're gonna do. And then it didn't hit its Kickstarter goal and they didn't do it. Isn't that crazy? The Kickstarter project's still up. You can see the trailer.

55:13 By the way, I can see why it didn't get funded. The trailer was garbage, but like with the idea and him being like he's like, Yeah, like in hindsight, I was that was right. That would have been awesome. But we didn't hit the ten K. We only got to two two thousand dollars donated, so we didn't do it. So Funny. Oh my god. I mean, did he actually compare himself to Steve Jobs or is he saying like I I don't remember what it said. In the Kickstarter part, but I think he's not comparing himself. He's just kind of like trying to get you excited about why should you care about this. And he's like

55:41 Well Imagine if the great companies had had this at the beginning, you would have wanted that, right? You know? Oh my God, that's so funny. They called a shot. Nobody cared.

55:53 Yeah, but think like um I've talked about this. I love doing home movies. So my I try to like every day I take like a three minute video of my family of us doing something and I have it on like a secret YouTube channel. What's it called? Sam's superstop secret channel don't look. But all the videos are unlisted. You can even see if you wanted to. But um'cause a a YouTube short can be three minutes now. And so I do I'm doing three because the problem with a lot of these videos that you take with your family or with your friends, they're just like ten seconds and you're like telling your friend like wait. Repeat. Hold on.

56:26 Do it again. Versus like Here we are. Like remember when you're when you're a kid and your dad's like, Here we are, Christmas two thousand four. Yeah. We're doing this. And those are the best. Those are the best videos. Uh, and so thank God like we have these phones, because that's really what a video should be. It's like a three minute to five minute video of someone narrating saying what's going on and You're not no one's performing.

56:48 Versus now whenever I put my phone out, it's always like, Wait, hold on, tell me that joke again. How do you feel? Yeah, like are you um so I definitely land on the optimistic side. I think he's a badass and I loved hearing his story. I think it's super mission driven. I think it's super cool that these guys believe twenty years before anybody else. I think it's super cool. They filmed the thing. I think the

57:10 The breakthroughs they're doing. I like seeing use of AI that's not all the same. Which is like Today the Chat GP well the Chat GPT experience is so dominant. That it feels like that's what AI is.

57:23 And it's kind of like early internet, like getting online and being like aim. Or A World News, like this is the internet. And it's like, No, dude, there's so much more that's gonna come. That's how I felt when I heard more about the protein folding stuff and how they did the game stuff and how that's gonna apply to all these other domains.

57:41 And I'd walked away being like, Oh man, if I was kind of young and just trying to figure things out. If you're high potential and you don't know where to go, like I got two words that'll probably make you a billion. Computational biology. Just go there and just go play around. If you're an entrepreneur Like forget building a GPT wrapper, build an alpha fold wrapper.

58:00 I think you could build a multi billion dollar like what Cursor did. Cursor basically said they didn't make the model. They were like, we'll take Claude. But we'll just wrap this in a tool that programmers can use that will be very useful for programmers. Go do that for pharmaceutical companies. Go do that for research labs. Go create oh or you realize that with protein folding people are gonna want to test protein, uh like the actual protein synthesis in the real world.

58:23 That demand is gonna go up a hundred X, go create wet labs. And just do the tests for these for the people who are using computers to come up with their hypotheses. That demand is gonna go a thousand X. So I was like, man, there's so much opportunity. For anybody who wants it. I got two words for you. I thought it was gonna be like suck it.

58:40 But it was cut computational biology. You uh You took me you led me down a path. I thought you were going one way, not the other way. That was great. This was a great episode. All right, that's it. That's the pod. It be what I want to I put my law in it like my day's off On the roadless travel never looking back All right, my friends, I have a new podcast for you guys to check out. It's called Content is Profit, and it's hosted by Luis Anfonzi Cameo.

59:14 After years of building content teams and frameworks for companies like Red Bull and Orange Theory Fitness, Louise and Fonzi are on a mission to bridge the gap between content and revenue. In each episode you're gonna hear from top entrepreneurs and creators, and you're gonna hear them share their secrets and strategies to turn their content into profit. So you can check out content is profit wherever you get your podcasts.

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