Ivanka Trump: My Dad Told Me Two Weeks Before He Ran For President!

Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/ae29d7bf39429fb0

She was extraordinary.
My mother taught me a lot about just like
Bringing in attention to what you do, bringing
And being the child of accomplished parents. Most people thought that I would lack the ambition, the preparedness, but my mother taught me that.
Being underestimated is not a bad thing. It's very powerful thing, actually. And it almost always worked to the detriment of the person who underestimated me. From real estate to her own multi million dollar fashion line, Ivanka Trump continues to carve her own path into the business world, succeeding at every turn. And then you then
Two weeks before he announces your father decides he wants to be president of the United States. Did you have any sense that this was at all on the horizon? Not really. And then when he pulled the trigger, it was full steam. He asked us for help.
And he's like, but I have to warn you, they're gonna come at you hard. They're probably gonna hate you.
But one of the things I've learned in moments of tremendous pressure and scrutiny where any slip up is completely weaponized against you is to find the signal and the noise. I just don't get distracted by the outside noise. That's probably the thing that has been most helpful to me in terms of performance and success because you have a choice only in how you respond.
You've said politics is a pretty dark world.
This is quite a difficult question to ask, but when you heard the news that there was an assassination attempt on your father's life. Do you remember where you were and like what's that like as a daughter?
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You um you don't do many interviews, do you?
Not really, no.
Why don't you do much media stuff or podcasting or interviews?
I actually don't know. I think I'm I get sort of really locked in and heads down on what I'm working on.
That
I tend to kinda put on blinders and just go.
But I like to have conversations in longer form with people that I admire. I think the reason why I um
I do this is because I see I I naturally see everybody as like a jigsa puzzle. And
You've lived an extraordinary life. You've lived an extraordinary atypical
Yeah.
I mean it's safe to say almost nobody on planet earth has has ever experienced. And so I think I asked that question just to be completely honest at at the top, because
The life you've lived that we'll get into.
Is is one that would have shaped you in
A number of ways.
And one of them is I think
From what I read, things that you had said and different experiences you had as a child, it's just
Like trusting people.
You know what's interesting. I I grew up
The child of
wealthy and accomplished parents.
And so I do think there's like a
a natural barrier that goes up. You're you're worried about people, especially when you're a kid, um, liking you for the wrong reasons. I see this now with my son. You know, he wants to be loved by his friends. And I appreciate that. That's that's good for who he is, not for who we are, and certainly not for what we have. So
I do think being the child of of of famous um
parents and living such a privileged life. I had this
Guard.
And um that guard served me really well for a long time. Like I
I didn't have any friends despite the
Really tumultuous.
life that I've had, ups and downs, to
Really disappointed me.
meaning close, close friends who who didn't show up for me or or who changed because of my circumstances or
what was happening around me. And I've learned for me, I mean you were saying the purpose of life for me it's
you know, the expansion and not contraction of the heart. And that's hard as you get older. You know, how do you live a life of
of service and rooted in in love and connection and
I've learned more and more that those walls
They don't serve you.
And the only way to have connection, which is so fundamental to the human experience, is to
Um is to build it and that requires trust. So I have to trust people. Now I have a good radar. I'm not foolish.
I think I'm a very good read of people and I think it's one of um
My
strengths and I think it's why
I haven't been surprised by a lot of people. Um, so I read pretty quickly, but
I also have had to teach myself.
rather than grow sort of cynical as one tends to as they get older. I've really actually taught myself to
be more trusting. And to the extent that means periodically I'll be burned like
That's I'm okay with that trade off because I think it will lead to more meaningful connections in my life.
Probably nets out better, right, in the lifetime.
I have this photo here.
Of uh a very small

So funny, I look at this and I see my daughter.
Really. That was like the first thing when I saw that photo.
Ha.
At what age did you realise that life for you was slightly different from the average person? Like when does a child realise that?
Hm.
I think
There was always a lot of
media attention scrutiny.
you see it, you experience it very early on. I think my parents did a really good job trying to shel us from it and
It was different then without social media.
You know, not everyone I think the experience our children have or anywhere they go.
People have
A recording device in their hands, their iPhone.
Um and can take pictures of them and you know, it's so um you're so exposed.
During um
during your formative years and thankfully I did not have that growing up. There were times I felt it. I remember
I wanted to be a dancer.
A ballet dancer, and you know, my mom um was an incredible skier. She skied on the national team for then Czechoslovakia, now Czech Republic.
And so she really believed in the importance of
of sport for cultivating discipline and um so she really encouraged this and I was dancing at Juilliard the School of American Ballet here in New York
I was in the Nutcracker and I remember I was probably at late eight.
I was you know like some small role in the nutcracker, I was a party girl.
And an angel.
Those were like the entry rolls where you like dance at the party. Uh, where the
The man with the nutcracker arrives and then you're in that angel scene. And I remember being so excited and it was my first nutcracker.
And um
Michael Jackson had just moved into Trump Tower and was literally our neighbor in Trump Tower. And my father sees him one day, you know.
passing in the lobby, I'm with him.
I said, You know, my daughter's in the nutcracker.
You should come.
You should come see our performance.
So he comes to the Nutcracker with my father at the height of his fame.
To watch me dance.
And now this
in retrospect could be like, wow, what a cool experience.
But I was horrified.
Like this is I was so embarrassed. I thought we had ruined the nutcracker. Everyone was dancing with one glove. People who produced the show were, you know, hysterical that everyone was dancing with one glove. I thought it was all my fault and this was like just a wild childhood experience. So I had things like that happen that
We're so far from normal.
That it's actually like comical in retrospect, but I think the the day to day was like really grounded. My grandmother
And uh and grandfather before he passed on my mother's side really raised us. My grandmother meal we ate.
for you know most of my childhood. And uh Bubby. Bubby. Yeah. Yeah. So she
Taught me.
Um
A type of
Unconditional love.
and tenderness and um I think more than anything she was just this un
Got her?
She's um
Unbelievably nurturing.
I'd come home from school and you know, before I'd
Be out of the shower.
She would have laundered my clothes and folded them and put them back on my bed. She was always feeding me and food for her was very much like an expression of love. I remember when I became a teenager and I'd sleep later and later, she'd wake me up for lunch. Just like God forbid I wasn't being fed at all t at all hours. But I can see she means the world to you.
She does. She's ninety eight years old and um you know, uh her health has suffered and
You know, it's it's been a little bit of a difficult time for her, but I
I feel so strongly for for me and my children to have the experience to be there for her in just like a small fraction of the way that she was there for me is such an extraordinary privilege. And for them to grow up with her at our table every single meal.
um each night and
her telling her stories and stories of my mother who
They sadly didn't get to know.
Um
Are you okay?
Yes, I'm great.
I I have a lot of um
I have a lot of love for this woman.


Mm.
What is that um mixture of emotions that you're experiencing?
Um
She taught me so much just about
Love and we were talking before about connection. Um
And uh
You know it's
It's
been hard to see her now as she as she struggles, but
Um
But she's a
It's a blessing to have her in our home.
And living with us and
Very special person.

Ha ha
Thank you.
It's a real credit to her.
Yeah.
It's often a testament
Um
to the person and the value that they've added to your life and how they were there for you, that you would feel
feel the way you do about her and that's so like visible in your face, you know?
She must have been quite formative.
Oh, for sure.
Um
For sure.
So she's been
She's an amazing person.
You said that she she was really taking care of you.
Mm. And and sort of the age of ten.
Mother and father I am shooting very, very busy.
Yeah.
Explain that to me.
Yeah.
You know, my mother
was an incredible trailblazer. Um
An amazing example for me of
strength and resilience and glamour.
And um
determination and ambition, and she was a great mother too.
But she would also say like she couldn't do it alone. And she wasn't pretending she could. So she surrounded us with people who loved us. We had um
Two n amazing nannies, one of them
worked for my mother.
Until the day she died.
The other um is
worked for my mother until the day my mother died. Um and still works with us today. She w worked as after we grew up, she worked as my mother's personal assistant. So they were very much part of our lives and and part of our extended family. And of course my grandmother who she
Trusted completely with us. So she showed me a lot at a time when
You know
Not many women were doing what my mother was doing, um, inside the boardroom and on the construction sites all the time, by the way, with
Five inch heels and like
Perfectly caught hair. So
She made it look incredibly easy, but it was and continues to be very challenging to
balance work and life like that, especially at a time
where what she was doing was so singular. So she she really
My mother served as an unbelievable role model for me.
For what is possible.
How to be an amazing mother.
It was loving and nurturing and fun and
Provides for children and and also to be
unadashedly um
And doggedly pursuing
Once you're going to be able to do it.
goals in in a professional capacity. So she did that when she was married to my father, she did that.
um following their divorce and um
And really was just
an amazing an amazing mentor for me.
You're growing up in a context where your family are
Privileged, they have um they have no notoriety and
The both parents are quite
Absent by way of them being so busy. And they're also kind of like professional.
But
You know, my mother wasn't home cooking us meals. My grandmother was.
But my mother was home when we ate them.
And then she'd go out again. You know, her and my father were actively building their life and pursuing their passions. And for my mom, much like me today, you know, one of her creative expressions came in the form of design and architecture.
She wasn't absent and and you know, neither was my father. So he was filled a more typical of that generation male role where he was less like present.
But there was never a doubt in my mind that I was his top priority and that he was available to me. So I used to call him from
Yeah.
At uh a chapin. It was in a broom closet.
And never once did he not pick up.
And sometimes his office would be filled with people of um
You know, he'd be in the middle of a deal or a negotiation or some politician or whatever it was.
And he'd always put me on speakerphone and then start the conversation by telling everyone how I got great grades. And I'd start to blush. Um, but he always picked up.
They weren't absent.
Did I what? Miss him.
No, because I didn't feel like they I didn't feel like he was absent. It was just different. Like he wasn't
Attending all of our sports games. But by the way, a few parents were
Um you know.
Four decades ago.
there's a lot more sort of active participation, like the way I am in my kids' life, the way my husband is. I I think it is a you know a little different, especially
Um, for fathers today than than thirty years ago.
If I sat Havana, your mother here next to us.
Uh the same age you are now. What would be the the
The fundamental differences in in those individuals.
Mm.
You know, it's funny, I think back now and um
My mother
and I are both incredibly similar and very different.
So she had like over the top style and glamour, you know? And I think in some ways it was
A reaction to the austerity and the control of growing up in
a communist country in in then Czechoslovakia.
Like nobody was gonna tell her what to do. Nobody was gonna tell her what to say. So she actually would make my father
Look.
P C.
And was hysterical. I mean I spent much of my childhood being like
Oh


You know, it was really interesting. Um
I feel like today.
Because my
Mother passed away, um
Unexpectedly, um, from a fall a few years ago.
They were just like I had a lot of questions and um
And I really dug into her story and her history.
And
Um
And really studied her almost in a way that I wish I had done when she was living and I could speak to her directly.
And I think I understand her, A, because I'm at a level of maturity and I've have some of the same issues, you know, having young children and
I think I understand her though better today than I did in some ways in in her life. Like I see her more fully.
And what did you understand?
More about her that you didn't
Understand while she was here.
After she passed.
She wrote a book in
The final years of her life that talked a lot.
More about her childhood.
And I think not uncommon um
For people who have experienced
you know, a lot of hardship. Sometimes they compartmentalize and it's like
Forward only.
And this whole part of our life she never talked about. And I think when you're younger, you ask a lot less questions. Like now I would tell everyone who's listening, like
really ask the questions, especially if
people are a bit of a vault and are less inclined to
to look back in the past because I you know all of
Her life experience very much shaped her.
This was a beautiful photo that I found of you and I.
That was in uh in Mar-a-Lago.
On my uh
Childhood bed.
Yeah, yeah.
Ornate.
Um
Yeah.
She was really I mean, she was impossibly glamorous. No photos.
Nine years old, you
Mother and father.
Split up.
Most.
That was quite well publicised. Um that you were finding had an affair with somebody.
And this is actually where the the quote.

Quite remarkably.
Reporters were waiting outside of your school.
To take photos of you.
and ask questions about your your father's affair.
And the quote that I read in GQ said
This is a quote from you. If I didn't have that lesson
I don't know that I'd be tough.
It taught me not to trust anybody.
You can never let your guard down.
I never really
have since that time.
Hmm.
So that's probably the twenty five year old version of me. As as you know, there's a lot of truth in it. And I think
certain defense mechanisms we create for ourselves are actually healthy.
Yeah.
not to be trusting before I had honed my own instincts and had
learn to understand people and read people. So I think there was
Nothing wrong with it.
twenty five or twenty seven year old.
with my lived experience answering that way.
But um but I do like it. I completely understand though.
Like every part of me completely understands that reaction to that event at like nine years old.
Yeah.
I mean
re reporters being at your school or just generally, you know, uh how that must have been as a s as a kid in school. Well, there was a level of aggression that like
even today wouldn't exist with the paparazzi then, like to be shouting things and like reading
Um, quotes from from tabloids to me as I'm leaving school. To put this in context, this
Divorce.
apparently garnered more headlines
than the OJ Simpson trial.
So that was a lot.
The difference is that once I stepped into my home
It was a safe place.
You know, unless the t T Vs were blaring, which obviously they weren't during that period of time. So I think
The difference today for parents, and that I think about a lot with my kids, is you just can't
protect them in the same way. Like social media amplifies everything. So while that experience with those reporters was extremely combative and aggressive and like
Totally unacceptable in a way that I don't think society would allow today.
Today it's very much more in children's faces. You know, they can acquire the information they need, and obviously when you're young, you're curious.
Again, I'm trying to like world build in my head.
Because I think understanding that early context helps us understand everybody.
And if that was my early context, I think you'd be you'd see the fingerprints on me today.
Yeah. Well I think we're all you know, I think about it with my own children. Like I
I grew up with a lot of privilege and um
And I've lived an extraordinary life and
You know, I never worried where my next meal came from. I never worried about being able to pay for the best school that I was able to get into.
And so by
so many metrics my life was
Extremely comfortable and easy.
And I do think back like some of the challenges, the the moments that were
disgusting or uncomfortable, or, you know, even just the fact of um
my parents' marriage.
being t torn apart.
I think those
create the pressure that turns you into who you become.
Did you know what
it meant at nine years old. Because I again I transport myself to I probably then you couldn't look things up as easily.
I don't know what I thought. I I think I was probably more scared than anything of like the mob and the lights and
Um the surprise of it all. They did, and I think the experience I had, albeit
I was televised.
Um, but it was very much like any other
child who's nine, whose parents are separating, you start to wonder
We know.
Will I be loved?
Will I be forgotten? What does this mean?
Um, you want them to get back together. You're hoping, you're trying to
create peace between them, um, rekindle the love. All the things that I think are like deeply normal and and human. And you found out
About the divorce by seeing a newspaper on your way to school one day.
Um, yes.

That wasn't the plan.
Um they used to have uh the big news boxes with the newspaper, so
What did it say? What did the newspaper say?
I don't remember. I remember the photo. There was a picture of them with a rip.
Down the middle.
It was not an easy situation for a child, but um
That experience I always look for
Like what is the positive in any situation? And you know, the positive
for me and my siblings where we really like
bonded in a different type of way because we were going through it together.
It must be so interesting being in your shoes because
Yeah, look, me and you're both aware that people they want to drive a a wedge between you and your father. They want a headline, they want you to say something. I can see it within you that you have a real desire to be like open and transparent.
But if I was in your shoes, I'd be thinking
Like everyone's trying to trip me out.
Everyone's trying to make a headline um on on me and my life. They wanna

It's difficult.
It must be difficult. Like even I think about it as a podcast, the podcast you know, the podcast gets big. I don't I say the wrong line.
You know.
moments in my life of
tremendous sort of pressure and scrutiny.
Is um
to like find the signal and the noise.
And that's probably
the thing that has been most helpful to me.
It can become quite turbulent. I find myself sometimes literally like dancing in the eye of the hurricane. It's been many years of my life.
But there's a lot of like peace within me, so I just don't get distracted by by the outside noise. And um and I think if you know what you stand for.
Then it really is just noise. When did you have to learn this? Because am I right in thinking
Yeah, this is the first time that I saw the Trump family. During The Apprentice. So
Obviously, you know, growing up as a kid, big fan of business. Yeah. We had the UK apprentice, but the US one was much more interesting in my in my opinion.
So this is when I first understand who
Your father is and
Who you are.
What was the sentiment around
you as a family at this point,'cause again, people can't r remember
Hm.
Pre-Vortex.
It was the biggest show.
And
The world at one point.
Um it was this massive phenomenon. You know, he had been very famous in sort of New York and in real estate and in business circles, but this kind of like
It expanded awareness of him beyond those
New York circles onto
Um a global stage. So there was a lot of attention and a lot of excitement.
You know, he
was very similar to how he is now. He said exactly what he was thinking, which could be polarizing at times, but it's part of what people loved about him. I think
The thing about my father and my mother is they're like
Deeply authentic.
So you can disagree, but
There's a certain amount of like respect for the candor of it. Um, and the lack of fear to say what you're thinking, because so many people are
sort of afraid.
to be them truths.
You're more delicate with your words.
Yeah, but I know exactly who I am. That's why the noise doesn't affect me.
I'm really proud of the fact that
You know, I've lived through some incredibly intense times where people are taking cheap shots and swinging and
I don't punch back because I don't
believe in
Sort of.
spending my time in focus, like
being combative, like jumping into that particular arena and to like the nasty swirl of social media. It's just it's not for me. And I've been consistent in that my whole life. And I feel like that sets an amazing example to my children.
Where did you learn that? What is it that you've read? What are the sort of You just have to be yourself and you have to be true to yourself. And like I don't allow that noise to distract me. We were talking um earlier about stoicism. I think like Marcus Aurelius's meditations is so informative on so many levels. I mean, here you have somebody who was literally an emperor.
And he's writing this journal in a tent in a battlefield.
So his perspective is
Amazing. And he once wrote that the soul becomes dyed the color of its thoughts.
А think about that all the time. The cost to me.
Uh
living in a way that's inconsistent and not aligned.
With what feels right.
what models the right thing for my children.
What feels inherently true.
To me?
It's too expensive.
It's too expensive for
For my soul, so I won't do it.
So
You know, there there have been times when the incoming and I say, Well, but that isn't right, or this isn't right, or I wanna correct it.
And then I say, like what's the cost of doing it?
Thoreau has another great quote. It's
Something paraphrasing to the effect of, you know, the cost of anything is the amount of your life you're willing to exchange for it.
I focus on those things that like elevate my soul, um my my joy, my happiness, my connection to the people I love and care about.
Have you always been there?
Because you seem more stoic now. But you know
I have like I'm much more naturally like this. Like I feel
Things, like a lot of things. You're a bit of an empath, right?
Oh, for sure. Okay, yeah, makes sense. Uh so it I I have not always been like this. Like I had to work to be like this. And I had to
I think mature and I had to gain like confidence. And it took me a while to really let people in. And I think it was after my children were born.
That I really experienced a different type of
Love?
It like cracks you open.
And you're never the same.
You know, and and you want more of that feeling. Like I
I'm very
intentional about everything that I do. Even sitting here today, like I I have zero interest in spending two hours having a conversation with somebody I think is like a bully. Um because they get
good podcast. You know, like I I like having conversations with people I think are
interesting and curious. But in business as well. Like I'm I'm
You know, I do less things and I do them with a lot more
Focus and intention. You've lived an extraordinary life and it's a very anomalous one. But actually the lesson there about
Being intentional.
in every sense of the word, not just with what you do every day, but also what you let occupy your mind is one that I think
Everybody listening.
might derive a lot of value from. Because we live everybody lives on a spectrum of the world clawing at them.

From who they are.
um some you know one one end of the spectrum if I take myself back to when I was I don't know sixteen years old the world you know other than my mother telling me she wanted me to go be a doctor, lawyer, whatever, the world w wasn't really pulling me away from myself.
But then on the other end of the spectrum, you know, in thirty three now.
Yeah.
Every time I have a podcast guest on, someone's mad at me. And everything I say can be spun and whatever. So you also
w on this side of the spectrum, you have to get really, really clear, as you said, on like who you are and what matters. Well I think that's key. Like if
If you don't know who you are, the mob wins. Oh a hundred percent. Because they tell you who you are. Yeah. And then you start to believe it. Once you know who you are
You feel sorry.
for the people who are like screaming at each other on on social media. It takes like a beat to get there. Like I think
It it takes a lot of work to
to really understand yourself. And I think sometimes
Modern society it
Praises sort of speed.
And fast pace and um you know
accessibility and being available and responding quickly.
then people wonder like, why don't they know themselves? Like why aren't they connected to something bigger? And they're not taking the time.
I take
Time.
to shut down and like really go inward and ask myself every time I have a big decision, like what feels right. And even if it's hard.
to make a decision like whether it's a no or a yes.
If it feels aligned.
with your values and who you are, like it never is a mistake.
Ever.
You grow up in the uh
You know, with a with a family and a father that are
Very
Prominent.
At some point, do you have to make the decision to become your own person?
Like because I I was wondering if in that context you
There's a there's a pressure to kinda like be the same person in every regard, to believe all the same things, to live the same life, to go the same path. Is there some point in your journey where you where you go, Do you know what, I've actually got to like figure out
I can see a little smack in the corner of your mouth. Well no, I think about it with my own children because as a parent it's very easy to see them as
You know, a lot of parents they they view their children as extensions of themselves. And I really try not to do that. Like they are their own people, just like I'm my own person. Sometimes
In the context of a broader public narrative
Everything's sort of co mingled and related, but we're all our own people. We obviously have
conditioning, we have learned behaviors, we have um some of which are great, some of which we spend
part of our adulthood, um
Unwinding
But we're all like fundamentally unique and special, and I work really hard to make sure my kids see
themselves, each of them individually, that they know how much I love them and
As like perfect complete human beings, not
I love you because of this accomplishment, or because of this sort of external validation that you've received, because you're sort of.
perfect as as you are and like in your essence. So so
My parents taught me a lot.
A lot.
I love them so much. I'm like them in some ways. I'm very dissimilar to them in other ways.
But even though I was like the peacemaker in our house, I was also like very
Like true to myself.
And they create and I give them credit for this, they create an environment where like descent was okay.
And so I could agree or disagree.
And share it with each of them and um do so respectfully and and privately and
That was our home.
Um you started off.
W in real estate. You you worked in a you sounded like to me you were basically an intern at a
a a different real estate company before moving into the the family business. And in the family business, you know, heavily male dominated space. I heard you talk about how actually being a woman in that context,
prove to be, in your mind, an advantage of sorts. What what is the the context there? Again, I'm in twenty twenty-six right now, so I don't have
the perspective of what it was like to be a young woman in the real estate industry, presuming in New York. Yeah. Some sort of twenty years ago.
Well, I think I was like underestimated twice.
First being the child of
Accomplished parents.
There was an expectation that I
On one hand, some people thought I was like a savant.
Because I was their child. But most people
thought they would be um that I would phone it in, that I would lack sort of the
thought process, the ambition, the preparedness. So I
I always worked like twice as hard as everyone else to sort of prove my worth and
prove um my ability to to be in these rooms where truthfully oftentimes I was in them before I was prepared to be in them. So that was
You know
On my mind, but
I think being underestimated is is not a bad thing. I think it's like a very powerful thing actually.
And
І almost always
Work to the detriment of the person who underestimated me. So I think if you're somebody who's prepared and somebody underestimates you, well, guess what, they're not?
So when you're dealing with people who are extremely accomplished,
Like do the work. Like know what you're doing because probably they haven't done the work when they know they're dealing with you.
And
I think as a young woman in real estate, especially, you know, there were there were women in sales and there were women in marketing, but there were
very few women in development and construction and finance and ac
acquisitions and
I think um
I harnessed
Both in
The belief.
Some of it may be stemming from my own insecurity, but the belief that the people would underestimate me, I harness that like
sort of fear, that sentiment, and I used it to sort of propel me. And I used it to give me motivation and drive.
And then I also
would use it against the people who underestimated me just because I I was always prepared. I was overprepared. I I always did the work.
I heard you described as um from people that worked with you at the time.
A natural born deal maker.
And this kind of overlays with what you're saying there, that if someone underestimates you
They're actually
setting themselves up to be
Surprised or Well, I'd prefer to be underestimated than overestimated any day of the week. Give me specifics on what what environment that creates for you to then win in a deal.
I think in in negotiation it's like incredibly important to
Know what the other person wants.
Sometimes you can
Learn that through research.
Very infrequently though. Like you have to listen.
Like you're probably a great negotiator because you're an incredible listener.
silence can also be a weapon. People get very uncomfortable in moments of silence and then they start talking. And I think the more you can get a person to share with you
what they consider to be a win.
the more you can potentially accomplish something where you give
where you really have like a mutual win-win. Like I've seen negotiations where you give up very little, but the person feels incredibly happy because it's what they want.
Yeah. Right. Now when you're dealing with like a negotiation that's purely price, that's kind of different. That's like a very simple transaction. It's you know
But very few negotiations are purely that.
You know, one of first and foremost in a negotiation, like
Like make sure you understand what the other person wants because you may be able to give it to them at at very little cost and then everyone's happy.
And I also think there's
a lot of value in like authentically building relationships. So, you know, some of the
The best deals I ever did were uh
Derivatives of
really like getting to know someone like authentically and genuinely. And um they want you to win, you want them to win.
And those are are are like really beautiful types of transactions. And you know, I believe in you know, a lot of the projects I'm working on now are about like creating things. Like I like

building tangible things. I like creating
Things that um
that uplift and like solving
challenging problems and um
And you don't do that alone. You do that
Through
Partnership.
You do that.
through coalitions of people who
Share your passion and interest and um and that's very rewarding.
When you hire people, what are you looking for for for your businesses? Are there I mean, everyone's got their own hiring bias, and it often stems from their past experiences, who's burnt them in the past.
When you're looking to hire someone for one of your organizations or for some of the projects we'll talk about in a second, what it what are the like the key characteristics?
I think first and foremost you want someone with a strong sense of self and a strong like orientation towards like agency.
Like somebody who has agency. It's very hard.
To teach people, you know, you can have a brilliant person, but if they don't have like good judgment or if they're not like a self starter, it's very hard to give them that. It's very hard to sort of give them good judgment. And some of it's like street smarts, right? We talked before about
You know, how can you both be trustworthy?
And not be disappointed or burned too often. You've have an instinct about a person and you can read a room and and that's like EQ skills and those are
Those are a little bit harder to teach, so I look for that.
I look for good people.
At the end of the day, like
I don't want to do
a deal with I don't want to work with people I don't enjoy that I don't think are like good people because I don't want to spend my time with somebody who I don't trust.
or who I don't respect. So that's like really core and fundamental for me.
You know
For somebody who's working with me, I I actually tell my kids this all the time.
Because I think so much of the outside world is like
Impress me by what you do, like impress me by what you accomplish. The grades, the trophies, the the badges of like external validation and success, like our whole life.
is oriented towards that.
the validation that comes from the outside world.
So like I always want my kids to know like how I'm gonna validate them is like be a good person.
Like you want to impress me, like be a good person. Was that the case for you?
Probably not. I look at the Trump family, it it for me as an ex outsider I look like a competition between siblings and even when I think about your father. I think because we're so competitive and the hard
Yeah, I know I think um
I think it all like worked out and we're all I I like to think, you know, my
My siblings that I grew up with.
Um
My good values and uh
But no, like we were in a more like I was like very competitive with my siblings. Like you know, my mom was like a disciplinarian. There was like a high expectation of like performance and success. Um when you're in that when you're calling collect your father, he's reciting your great grades to the room of people he's in. No no no. That was
Yeah.
That
mattered and and it matters to a lot of parents and by the way it's not bad
like having an incredibly high standard. And to some degree
Yeah, and I think look, I I think it's
a lot of parents, like I I think especially like my mom was an immigrant to this country, there's like a high standard. Um and uh and she didn't like humor fools, right?
One of the things I'm most proud of, I look at my daughter
And there's no bar I could set for her.
That the bar she sets for herself isn't higher.
So like I actually view my job as a parent with her is to like give her permission.
To not like
strive for perfection.

You go on to build a business in the
Jewelry industry.
And fashion.
Industry.
Um there was I I was reading about there was a point in your career where you were p you know were offered a job by Anna Wintour. Yeah. At Vogue, and you I think your father did kinda want you to go in that direction, but you wanted to go in the real estate business direction. She called me actually on the day I graduated from
University. I went to a Warden School of Business at University of Pennsylvania and she offered me
a job at Vogue and I was
like incredibly honored and flattered and
Groggy.
Because she called me at eight o'clock in the morning, which calling a college student at eight o'clock in the morning, you might as well call them at four thirty in the morning.
from when I was a young girl that like I wanted to go into real estate.
Life has taken me in different directions and and interestingly now I'm returning some amazing projects back to
my real estate roots, but
I love architecture.
I love design.
I love it.
as an expression of self. You look at a city skyline and it's
an expression of like a vision for
Mm-hmm.
of hope and optimism and the amount of courage that took
To build each of those buildings and it's it's extraordinary. But you did go into the fine jewelry at twenty six years old, and then at thirty three you launch Avanka Trump.com.
And you were in a huge amount of major retailers, including Nordstrom
Neiman Marcus. Um and that's really also that's what I knew you first.
Four.
I knew you for running a
Fashion business.
Which was
Doing exceptionally well. I think from what I read it was making
Hundreds of millions of dollars.
And then you shut it down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was kinda like lightning in a a bottle. I caught a moment, so I was
Um, still sort of leading the charge at our family real estate business. I had young children at home, um, or was just starting to have uh children when when I first launched fine jewelry ultimately, we ended up having eleven different categories, apparel, footwear.
Sunglasses, fragrance, um
But we created
An accessibly priced line.
That was
feminine and beautiful, but for like a multi dimensional woman, like
At the time when I was coming up,
the outfits that women were buying for work were so far from aspirational and they couldn't transition with the woman to the date night they would have that evening or after work
Drinks with their girlfriends.
Like nobody was posting on Instagram like what they were wearing to work. And so we thought like let's bridge the gap and create something for a modern woman and it caught fire and it was an amazing success. We were doing um close to eight hundred million dollars in sales annually.
Um when I shut it down when I went into government.
It was great.
But You were doing eight hundred million in sales annually when you shut it down.
Yeah.
Why did you shut it down?
I went into government.
And you always have to sort of be moving forward and I had built a team.
of women who were oriented towards forward momentum.
And I had to put it on ice. And this was all just part of the rules of complying with the Office of Government Ethics. So they basically look at everything you have and they say, sell this, put this into a trust, do this, do that, do this. So you do that and and for my own business, they weren't allowed to use my image.
they weren't around to grow the business in terms of new accounts or internationally.
And that was fine for a moment, but at the end of the day
You need like growth, and so I thought it would be easier to end on a high note.
than to um allow the business to sort of stagnate. And I also felt like for
Myself, I'm always looking forward.
Like I don't like to look back and and I feel the
experience of of
This new experience, I mean
Serving was so
Expanding.
dollar annual business.
To go into government.
Why did you
But it's your baby as well, you know? It's like
Yeah, I you know, I thought about
The version of me and
Forty years.
That when asked the question to serve.
by my father who at the time
Knew no one in
in Washington D C at all.
Said no.
And just proceeded with life.
as usual and that didn't like sit right with me. So I had no intention of serving.
And a few weeks after
He won, he asked Jared.
me to go with him and sort of help him navigate this new environment. And my eyes grew big and
He joked with me, he's like, But I have to warn you.
They're gonna come at you hard.
They're probably gonna hate you.
You're too young, you're too and he like I'm like, Oh my God. That was like the anti-sail, but you know, he asked us for help.
Um, and I feel incredibly
Privilege that he gave us the opportunity to serve a country we love so much. We hadn't been expecting it. We hadn't set up our lives for it. We were loving.
the path we were on and and the work we were doing.
But you also you know
Can't put your head in the sand and like life had changed.
As much as I'd like to say like oh
He wins business as usual. There is no business as usual. Your life has changed. You didn't choose this, though. In fact, you didn't choose most of these things. I look at your life and I go
that from a very young age you've not chosen the context which you've been thrust into because of your your father's ambitions.
And
I mean I can see it in your face that it kinda rings true.
But I think that's true for all of us, right? To some degree, like our path is determined by our circumstance. I
Not really.
Not really in the same way. This is a little bit different with politics and the presidency, but But even from nine years old, you know, you're not choosing to leave school and have reporters
uh treat you like that and you're not ch choosing these other things along the way. And then your father decides he wants to be president of the United States. It's not like he had a political career where he like built up slowly. It's like he woke up one day and was like drinking water from a fire hose for all of us. It was a lot. Normally you cut your teeth on
you know, some local election as a family had the experience
the first time he ever run for office was president and he w so it was a radical adjustment period for
Um, for all of us, but Boy did it.
Oh yeah.
I did.
I mean it was it was hard to believe myself because everyone was saying that he wouldn't. And I'd say, Well, these people probably know what they're talking about, but it felt like he would.
And you know so
For me, that time was extraordinary, because I really believed.
You know, I lived in New York City.
I thought I was around surrounded by
diverse minds and opinions and perspectives and viewpoints. And I really thought I had sort of a lot of exposure.
Two ideas and
his campaign like ripped it open for me in that I realized like the bubble that I was in. And suddenly I got out into the country and I heard from people who had very divergent views on a number of issues. Some of it reinforced my existing beliefs, other times it
Completely
change my perspective and and orientation. So it was extremely
Mind expanding.
So when you ask like oh why didn't I go back to what I was doing? I think like
You know, you you get thrown into something and you learn and you grow and you change.
And um
And I felt
as challenging it was as that moment in my life to um
To say yes.
When when my father asked us to
to go help him, I felt like it was an amazing privilege.
To be able to serve, so
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I watched interviews going back to the nineteen eighties where it sounded like your father was playing with the idea.
I remember that.
Oprah interview that's subsequently gone viral of him saying that
Um, if it got so bad in the US
He would never rule it out totally. He th thought he would win.
Because he's never gone into anything.
To lose, as I think you said.
And even nineteen
eighty in an interview with Rona
Bray.
Can't pronounce that name. He said maybe I'd run for president, I don't know.
Did you have any sense that this was
at all on the horizon in
Not really. That's interesting.
No, it was you know, it was actually
where we discuss things that weren't sort of the normal
How was your day at school? It was we spoke a lot about real estate and about
Um
And about building and we were gonna go into the family business and and I do think he sort of toyed with it in his mind, um, for a while. I I do remember once thinking it was real, I was
sixteen and I was at boarding school and I called him up and I go, Oh my God, I read that you're gonna run for president. This is gonna ruin my life. I think I was like hysterical and he's like, Don't worry about it, not happening. You know, I think he was
He was thinking about the options he was given.
As a voter?
And he was dissatisfied and
I think he was beginning to formulate his perspective on what he would do differently.
But it was not
My childhood, that was not an ambition.
of his that was at least articulated to to us.
You know, some of the ideas you mentioned that Oprah interview he was talking about
Uh
Trade policy.
being deeply unfair to American workers.
You know, his viewpoint.
remain consistent.
over time and remains consistent to this day on exactly that about trade policy and and many of many of the things he articulated then are very true for him.
To the stay.
And then in two thousand fifteen, when you were thirty three.
My age.
You learn.

That he's gonna announce?
That he wants to run for president? Mm-hmm.
Again, how'd you receive that?
Is then like an existential panic like you actually came together as a family in Bedminster, um
And he shared with us his intention and
He asked me to introduce him.
I said to him, I'm like, Well, are you really doing this?
Um, are you really gonna do this? He was coming down the escalator and I'm trying to like introduce him and give this speech. I'm like is he gonna get up here and actually it was so quick.
But I think you know, I think he had debated it in his mind for a long time. And then when he pulled the trigger it was
Full steam.
Life hasn't been the same since.
In many respects.
Mm mm. No, it hasn't.
But it's been I mean, it's been an extraordinary ride. There have been highs and there have been lows, but
Um, we've done a lot of living, so a lot of living. A lot of living.
of which he spent four years working in the White House. Mm-hmm. Some of your sort of key headline achievements are doubling the child tax credit from one thousand dollars to two thousand dollars, benefiting forty million Americans with an average
of two point two thousand dollars per year helping secure paid family leave for federal workers, helping pass the Great Americors Act, which is one of the largest
conservative bills since the national park system was created, leading efforts to modernize career and technical.
education providing one point three billion annually to over thirteen million students.
And helping to pass nine pieces of legislation combating human trafficking and child ex
Exploitation.
And then it ended.
Yeah.
We happy it ended?
'Cause I think with Michelle Bama, she seemed happy.
I left it all in the field.
You know, I I don't look back and say
Okay, I I don't have regrets. Like I worked as hard as I could and I'm incredibly
Proud of
what I was able to accomplish in in those four years and um
Like I don't regret it in any way.
But it's
You know, it's a sacrifice um to my children.
And it's um
And it's it's it's hard work.
You know, so I feel both incredibly privileged for the opportunity, but also
I don't have what they refer to as potomac fever. You know, there's some people that once they have the experience of
of being in those rooms and and close to that type of power. They just like hang around the hoop constantly like cycling back in.
I feel like I wasn't expecting to serve in this capacity, at least not at this stage of my life.
My father asked me.
To help him?
We uprooted our lives and went and did just that and scored a lot of wins. I mean you think about something like the trial tax credit.
Forty million American family.
benefited from that policy.
an average of two thousand four hundred dollars in their pockets.
That's
Extraordinarily meaningful and consequential, and I'm so proud to have been able to do that.
Nine pieces of human trafficking legislation, the work that I did around vocational education and skills training, which is all the more relevant.
as we sort of surf the oncoming tsunami that is AI.
You know, the fact that we were able to um
get the private sector to commit to skilling or reskilling sixteen million American workers.
The fact that we were able to facilitate the creation of a million apprenticeship opportunities in
In the United States, like these are
Are deeply meaningful. So I
I'm so proud.
of my service. I I feel deeply honored that
He trusted me?
to pursue these
different verticals and and to work alongside of him.
And I also know
That it's really hard.
And
For my children, you know, my first responsibility is to be their mom. It was true then as well, of course. And and I did the best I could every single day to be
Everywhere I needed to be. But my kids are a different age now.
And there's a finite period of time before they leave our home.
I think
You know, I look at at my teenage daughter, she's fourteen.
And even if
Like
a quarter of my interactions with her through her closed bedroom door, like I need to be present and I need to be there.
It's not theoretical for me because now I know.
The sacrifice.
That they would have to.
bear the cost to them.
Of if I went back into service.
And I'm not willing to let them pay that price. So for me it's like actually a rather easy decision. I made it immediately, you know, that
In this moment I'm where I need to be. It's also a different time.
You know, now my father has a deep bench of people raising their hand.
who want to help and participate.
That wasn't true before. He's really refined his policies, his beliefs, and has
a lot of conviction in terms of what he wants to do. So so I feel like for him
It's amazing. He's got the team he needs, and um and for me I think
You know, my priorities are are my family and not
Just feels really good and right.
For me.
What weren't you prepared for?
I asked the same question to Michelle when she was here.
About
You know, you get that phone call from your dad and he says come come help.
one has a vision of what that might look like, but there's surprises. Michelle talk t talked to me about so many of the things she had no idea would be the case. I wasn't prepared for you're not prepared for any of it. There's nothing that trains you.
for the experience and
I think one of the things she realized pretty quickly is like power, just like money, makes people more of what they already are. And you see that very much in playing out in in politics and and in life, right?
I also think you realise people are just people.
Like you look at and
I've you know, I had exposure to some of the great leaders of business and now I was being exposed to um
to leaders on a global stage of countries.
Um, sometimes they were monarchies, other times they were elected democracies, and then all sorts of variants of of that, you know, were
And and you realize at the end of the day, like
People are people.
You know, some of them they're their kids don't speak to them. They got in a fight with their wife that morning. They're you know, they're just people. And now some of them
Feel it.
Extraordinarily historic.
You meet a person and say, This person feels consequential. Others not of them you leave and say, I wonder how this person ever got elected to to this you know
high office, but um
But I think it it removes the veil.
and and the mystery and I think it removed from me a lot of
Any of like intimidation I may have in like interacting with another human being.
Your security situation must have changed quite considerably. So did yeah. You know and because politics is a dangerous game. I think I r I heard something that said being president is the most dangerous job in the world when you look at the fatality rate.
And obviously we've seen political assassinations in this country.
even in recent times, but your father was also shot at hit in the ear when he was on the campaign trail more recently.
What's that been like? And what does it actually
Can you give me any specifics on what that actually
Like means?
When you become involved in politics.
How does life change from a security perspective?
Yeah.
I think
Well, it changes radically. Now we're protected by U S Secret Service and I'm so
grateful to to the men and women who who take care of my family, um, took care of my father.
protected him and uh risking their own lives to do so and now do so for for me and and my children. So
Very grateful.
Uh
Yeah.
But it's it's it's scary. We live in um
Very troubling times and like
You know, the fact that there is a correlation between
Service and violence is
Um
is uh terrible in and of itself, but but that's the the world we live in. So you know, I have to acknowledge that reality and defend my family as as best I can and make sure they're protected. And I'm very fortunate the s the secret service are
The best in the world at doing that.
Where were you in two thousand and twenty four in July when you've when you heard the news?
Yeah.
Your father had been
Shot in the ear.
There was an assassination attempt on his life. Do you remember where you were and like what's that like as
as a daughter, what are all the feelings and thoughts?
I was in Bedminster, New Jersey.
And um
There was a lot of commotion and
Um the televisions were on, so I saw it almost
Immediately, not in my house. Actually,
Don't love watching television.
Um, but out by the pool in the bistro and um
It was almost real time. It was before he had
Stood back up.
that I had seen um
What was transpiring and um two of my children were there.
Um so you know, my first reaction was
to turn them away. Um
But
It was incredibly difficult.
Interestingly, I knew real time in that moment.
That he was fine.
Like I had
I just knew.
That
Like it wasn't his time.
So I was
horrified and I was scared and I was protective of my children, but I also
I didn't believe like the worst possible outcome had transpired.
Thank God.
And um
And thank God it's
It hadn't.
And then I saw him that night when he came home from the hospital because he was also staying. That morning he had left from
Bedminster and that evening he he returned after
He left the hospital and um
Slate one.
Two o'clock in the morning and
Jared and I stayed up and we met his his car as he was pulling in and
Um
I just feel

Just incredibly lucky.
That he was protected on that day.
But
It's you know when
You can't take things for granted in life and I've learned that in
Numerous ways, that being one of them. Um
When my mom passed prematurely.
When my husband had a scare with cancer.
You know, all of these
challenges that remind you how finite
And how precious every moment of this life we
Live are
make you realise you just can't take anything for granted. And I think as you move through them and, you know
God willing, you're able to and
We were so fortunate that day that
That this was a failed attempt to take his life.
I'm not a realized one.
But you just I think you
You recommit.
to sort of love and connection and to
A recognition of um
How short.
our time here on earth is and how you have to value it.
Someone shooting at your dad.
Um and trying to kill your dad.
This is quite a difficult question to ask, but it's like if if um
Most of us will never be able to relate to the fact that
members of the public want our
Parents.
To be deceased.
And that's the reality of the
The situation for your father is someone shot at him was trying to execute him publicly.
And um
I wonder how that
Again, doesn't make you
Negative to the world.
Because I don't allow it to.
What does that accomplish?
Mm.
I think that
brings more negativity into the world.
There's a lot of sickness.
There.
And
I
You know, I think that
Forgiveness is a difficult thing in in this regard, but I think you have to
Um
His living
Was a blessing.
So I could look at what happened.
And
Be rightfully.
Traumatized by the experience.
And nobody could really argue with that, but
You have to
You have to move through it. And
And on the opposite side of that is the fact that
He's with us today.
that he didn't die, that my father's alive.
And
That is
An extraordinary blessing for me as his as his daughter.
In life you have a choice only in how you respond.
And I choose to
sí
the positive outcome that
That transpired.
And dwell there.
The mind plays out scenarios, right? The mind plays out the scenario that where he he didn't make it, where the he turned his head in the other direction, the bullet hit him.
And
Mm-hmm.
Presumably played out that scenario of what
how different life would have been in
Well seeing it on repeat for
months on television on the news was certainly like not the easiest thing and you know that's part of why I just
I even before I didn't I n never loved watching the news. I'll read the news, but
But no, I mean he's here.
You know, really felt like
Um
A miracle and a blessing and and that's what I focus on.
I can see the emotion again in you.
Which is again, it's fascinating to me because I've you know, I've had
you know, people around you speak about it, but the the emotional toll seems to be more
still sort of present in you.
about that incident than it does about other people that I've heard speak about this.
Well he's my father.
He's my father and he almost lost his life that day.
But he didn't.
And I feel
Truly grateful.
For that.
And in this second season of his presidential career you decide that you want to pursue um many other things.
Many other things, many other business developments and um
Real estate developments.
You step away from politics.
In twenty twenty two, I believe, you announced that you would not be returning for the third election campaign.
Uh, you said this time around I'm choosing to prioritise my young children and the private life we're creating as a family, I do not plan to be involved in politics.
You also said on Lex Lex's podcast politics is
A pretty dark world.
There's a lot of darkness, a lot of negativity.
And it's just really at odds with what feels good.
To me.
As a human being.
thirty minutes ago, I was thinking your nature
As I've known you.
Seems to be a
The antithesis.
of this type of world.
Like fame. Totally true. There's this like gladiatorial aspect of it that's just like not for me. I care deeply about policy, about helping people, and I think there's all sorts of ways to do that. And and and I'm doing that now in in the private sector, but
I don't like politics, but I I do care about policy.
Um quite deeply.
And I've tried to focus on on that element of service.
And do you feel the need to
Express.
You never do because you don't punch back at the world publicly.
Which is, I think, something to be admired.
And I I've learned actually quite a lot from everything you said there about
not feeling the need to like punch back at the well. It takes training.
It like takes real training. I was actually
reading uh
recently, uh
about the crow and I I thought it was like a great metaphor.
for life. So Crow's like a highly intelligent
Animal.
Extraordinarily so in some cases.
But it can get
aggressive and territorial and it's
One of the only animals that will actually attack an eagle.
Like a crow will go and just sometimes because it's being territorial and other times for fun. And the crow will actually like mob the eagle.
and it will land on its back and it will start
Packing it.
And the eagle's response to this.
Which naturally the Eagles
many times over larger than the crow, isn't to like twist and turn and knock the crow off or
um defend itself and and and then go on the offense. It's just a fly up.
And it flies up while the crow continues to like
just peck at its at its back, it flies up and up. And the crow is not built for high altitude flight.
So at a certain point as the eagle flies up, not expending any energy in the counterattack.
The Crow just
Falls off.
Mm.
It can't sustain the altitude.
So I and I kind of love that analogy for life because you have a choice. You know, you can turn around, you can fight back
Probably the Eagle would win.
Or you can just
you know, play the game on your own terms. And I I think about that sometimes and I thought it was like a brilliant metaphor.
for dealing with the noise.
And you trained that muscle.
For sure. So there was a time when you did care.
For sure, because I d there was a time when I was just like confused. I'm like, Well, but I didn't even do that.
Like what are you talking about? Like I don't even know what you're and and then there's a sense of well that's unfair.
Like that's an unfair attack, and then you realize like
lot of it's unfair, especially in politics. Like it's just like
A team sport and people attack and you know
And and people also, you know, put you up on a pedestal and
You just
Can't get distracted by either. You just have to be yourself.
And uh you have to fly up.
Let the crows fall off. And um
And that's it. That's all you can do.
Do any of you remember a conversation I had on this podcast with anthropologist Dr. Daniel Lieberman? It was one of the most viewed conversations of all time on the diary of a CEO. And interestingly, the most replayed moment of that entire conversation was when I talked about a specific pair of shoes that I wear. They're called
Barefoot shoes, and they're made by a brand called Vivo Barefoot, who have become one of the sponsors of this show now. All of their shoes have significantly reduced support, which gives my feet the opportunity to strengthen just by wearing them. And research from Liverpool University backs this up. They've shown that wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes for six months can increase foot strength by
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Enjoy.
We have finally caved in. So many of you have asked us if we could bundle the conversation cards with the one percent diary. For those of you that don't know, every single time a guest sits here with me in the chair, they leave a question in the diary of a CEO, and then I ask that question to the next guest. We don't release those questions in any way.
environment other than on these incredible conversation cards. These have become a fantastic tool for people in relationships, people in teams, in big corporations, and also family members to connect with each other. With that, we also have the 1% diary, which is this incredible tool to change habits in your life.
So many of you have asked if it was possible to buy both at the same time, especially people in big companies. So what we've done is we've bundled them together and you can buy both at the same time. And if you want to drive connection and instill habit change in your company, head to thediary.com to inquire and our team will be in touch.
You are very different from your father. Now listen, I know you you know, you love your
father deeply and I've I've watched you in every interview you've ever done to talk to that love, and I have zero.
Exactly zero desire.
to to s ask you any questions or ask anything that's gonna try and drive a a wedge or get you to say something that I think, you know, is

But the thing I find interesting is that like how you make your way in the world
And like become your own person when you do have this derivative noise.
That's trying to define you through things that you have never even actually done. Yeah. And I just find that fascinating, like how and life has clearly made you a stoic for this very reason, because you have to deal with, I guess to some degree, being characterized in a certain way for actions that you yourself haven't taken. So one has to become a stoic or else how could one possibly survive?
Like we all deal, I think, uh on microscopic levels with like r in just like on the eye of the hurricane. I think that
Like I I sometimes like feel a lot of gratitude for it because
I I think sometimes you
Keep being taught a lesson until you learn it. And I think as
somebody who always wanted peace and harmony and
I think I needed to like maybe it took this level of intensity to be like okay, you know, like peace and harmony within the
context that I can help facilitate, you know, like I can't
controls something so much.
Um bigger than that. So so sometimes like maybe that was my medicine, you know. Did you go to therapy?
Yeah.
Not in my childhood.
In actually as an adult I um
I I have a lot of um
Friends who are
Unbelievable either.
teachers, professors, therapists and um
And
I have like a very growth oriented mindset, as you can probably tell. Like I'm always looking to learn about myself and about the world.
And uh so they've provided unbelievable perspective for me over the years. I asked that'cause I imagine there's lots of people watching now who contend with their own struggles. Yeah. Similar to that dealing with the outside world or
Think therapy can be amazing.
Um, I think you have to have the right therapist.
Um, and somebody who helps you sort of process and move through.
I don't think it's like healthy to linger
Too long.
Um
Like I think you have to
Move forward.
When did you decide to start seeing a therapist?
Um
In my adulthood.
Like as an adult. And it was more just as
like another tool for me in the same way that I meditate.
you know, I view it as as an opportunity to like
to do an internal inventory.
Was there a catalyst?
There's often a catalyst when I interview people if something happened, they realise that they needed more tools.
You know.
I think um
some of the challenges around um Jared's health.
Mm-hmm.
I just left Washington, our life was in flugs, Jared.
Um, was diagnosed with thyroid cancer for a second time.
Um
And uh and then my mother passed.
And I wanted to make sure I'm I'm really good.
Uh like
Being tossed.
And I'm really good at
kind of compartmentalizing. So it was more just like a check with myself that I was also
Taking time to like
You know, sort of like look inward and uh
And like nurture myself. So it was not it was not
particularly like formal.
Um
But it was more, you know
And
I think when you can speak to people you trust who are knowledgeable.
Just make sure you're like taking time to like really heal and not just move forward.
You strike me as someone that spent a lot of time being tough.
On the outside.
Um because I look tough and super soft at the same time. But I've I've kind of
But that's like where, you know, I have to like watch myself from
Because my life has always had such intensity.
like I can like move through things. Like I sometimes have to pull myself back and say like
process. Because I don't believe that you ever put something in a box.
I think that thing that you're hiding from yourself.
is with you every time you make a bad decision.
And like driving the bus. You know, like it's you may not be like fully conscious of it.
But it's it's like there. So you better unpack it.
Um and as close to real time as possible, I think the better.
Yeah, in in your context, I imagine as well, you can't just offload like the average person does in every context. Like because there's consequences to that. Whether it's trusting people, whether it's the media trying to get something on you, what you know, whoever it might be. So and then, you know, you're in a family where
Yeah.
It's important to
Keep a straight face.
Especially in public a lot. And I was watching the footage from Yeah, people think I'm like have like a sort of like a stoic look in public. I'm very
But I but I haven't spent time with you behind the scenes.
sort of d bit of a dichotomy in the sense that you're
There's a real
Ye like
Pure
Um
Soft.
And pathetic.
So
And then it appears to me.
That
Life is
demanded for the survival in the context you've been in.
that you pop a mask on in front of that to keep a straight face and a tough
d demeanor and to not punch back and to
To suppress that in certain contexts because
Frankly, you kinda have to if you're in the shoes that you've had to fill.
And w I guess one can
Keep them.
That mask, that tough exterior on
Too long.
Yeah. Well I think you actually see it with
A lot of politicians.
they feel inauthentic because they are. You know, they've experienced so much that they
They never allow the mass.
To slip.
Yeah.
I think one of the things that makes my father so unique is how is he so authentic in a world where so few people are, like in that profession, that realm.
And
They're like almost like you look at side they're feel like
They're robots.
the way they speak, the way they interact, the way they engage.
Oftentimes you see that when you're with them one on one as as you do
as it comes across like on a debate on a television set.
Um
So I think there's a balance. Like I I don't think
You need to be
Like your most vulnerable self in the public. Like why?
Like what is I think you want to be authentic.
But I think like you should like you have to guard things about yourself, about your family. And I think that's like healthy and and good. And I do think there is a part of me that's like there's never been like a
There's no
room for error. You know, like even as a child, like growing up in the public eye, I was always nervous about doing something and embarrassing my parents and then politics and you have to be perfect and
Any slip up is completely weaponized against you, so you become very careful publicly.
I think the mistake though is people
Get confused.
And they lose the sense of themselves.
And
They bring that into their relationships like off
Um
the public stage and and I think that's
Really unfortunate.
You mentioned um.
One of the c countless moments for you seeking out some s sort of more professional support was
The death of your mother?
Twenty twenty two.
And a beautiful photo of her. Wonderful.
Yeah.
Try not to cry again.
She's extraordinary.
She was extraordinary.
She lived a good life, though.
Yeah, I tell myself with
My mom, she like really lived.
She had fun.
Um so she taught me a lot about just like
You know, the presence I talk about about just like

Bringing in attention to what you do, bringing
I
Oh.
Um
She uh
She was very herself.
And she was very joyful and she loved to dance and she loved to play and so
Um she lived uh she lived a good life.
It's a really tr it's a unbelievably tragic way to lose a parent is suddenly an unexpected when they are
strong. I mean it it says a lot that your grandmother, which is her mother
Still alive. Still alive, almost a hundred years old, and she lost her life at seventy two of falling down the s the stairs in her way, I said my grandmother was ninety eight, she's ninety nine. Crazy. It's amazing.
Yeah. No, it's it
Very challenging and you know
Grief is just
Losing a parent it's it like hits different.
You know.
Um, especially unexpectedly, especially sort of post Covid.
Which like kind of rob so many of us of so many years. You know, some for some people they
sort of sheltered together. Um and it actually created connection between generations. And you know, unfortunately I was she was in New York and I was in Washington, so
Um
There is
The
There was distance there.
Just geographically.
Um
But um
But you know, I I really
Like we really I was telling you before, we really keep her memory alive. Like I really took the time to
Think about her.
Not through the eyes of the child who idolized.
Her fully.
But through the eyes of an adult who saw her clearly.
Her strengths.
Her challenges.
And like I think about like my role.
As a parent.
To my own children is
to sort of stand guard.
against like to to make sure they're exposed to all the elements of her that were amazing and and share the stories and remind them.
Um
And also to like kind of
Like a lioness stand guard against the passing on.
Uh
Of
you know, challenges she had and and struggles and um
And so I try to do that with my own family.
Have you gr grieved properly?
Yeah.
I think it's no, I think it's super important, and that's part of the reason
I
really got introspective. I think wherever there's discomfort, that's where you have to go.
And you know, I would talk about her and start to cry just like I'm still doing.
Um, but in a different kind of way, you know? Like I
I was avoiding
for a moment, a very short moment, because I recognized in myself like the discomfort and like
You have to like unlock that.
And you have to really make the time.
To think about
And talk about and and process.
On the business side of things, you have started in twenty twenty three, I believe, at forty one years old. You co founded Planet Harvest with one of your friends, Melissa
Acommon?
Inspired by your experiences creating the USDA's Farmers to Families Food Box program during Covid nineteen.
When I look at
All that you do.
You're doing this incredible project in Albania.
to develop the land there.
you are investing in technology companies, you're you've got this planet harvest project with which is incredible. And then you've got, you know, um a a family, which you know, you talk about standing in guard in front of them and so on and so forth.
How how do you
Balance.
All of this stuff.
How does one balance it?
You don't like balance is elusive.
Like I think of balance, it's like a scale, it's gonna tip.
Your one child's flu.
Away from like
Complete imbalance.
Right, where you get the call from the school nurse and your son has to come home unexpectedly, or
Um
Or there's like a roadblock and a project you're working on, or
You know, you can't
Striving for balance is not
Like a practical pursuit.
I think what I strive for is to live a life that aligns with my priorities.
And
To have more days.
Than not.
That I feel like I've done just that.
And I think if you get that right, most of the time you're doing pretty well.
Because balance doesn't work.
It's just like our lives are too hectic and there's too much outside of our control to
To maintain.

That equilibrium.
I'm so curious as to where you've um you know.
I know you've read a lot of stoicism and you read a lot of books and you've you've been to therapy, but you know
You've
You contend with a lot.
Businesses, investing, the real estate projects.
All the family stuff, the broader noise. Yeah.
Um you've really
Much of what I've learned about you is that you've really managed to send to yourself on yourself.
Mm. You've managed to sort of pull yourself inwards in a world that pulls all of us outwardly.
And i is is there a particular book you might advise people to read about this or is that or they just have to have life hit them?
Well, I think
You know, religion for many people provides a beautiful framework. Um
Whether it's the Bible, the Torah, the
You know, of of like be a good person.

Like really um
Live a purpose driven meaningful life
So
I I think there's so much wisdom there and I I think, you know, we talked about the stoics. I think they're some of the the great gods.
I also love some of the eastern philosophies. Like I love Latsu and
The Tao Te Ching is an amazing it kind of reminds me of like the it's like that's similar to the philosophy of of Jiu Jitsu around just sort of presence and
And not
Sort of
Fighting what is.
You know, so much of suffering comes from a rejection of like what is
Um like fighting something that it just
Is fact.
Um, as opposed to sort of
that which is within our control. So
I I'm actually very drawn to sort of Buddhism and Taoism and
Um I personally feel um
Like very alive. Like I think
You look at if you if you think back over the last week, and I don't know what this is for you, but you think back over the last week, maybe even the last month or the last day.
Like when you were in like a flow state, when you fet felt most alive.
Like that's your medicine. Like that's like you.
in your essence. But so I try to also like put myself in those situations as much as possible and and um
And make sure to like bring that into my life. I'm fascinated by Planet Harvest.
Because you could have done so much with the leverage and and experience that you have and you chose to build a business called Planet Harvest, which you can find at planetHyphenharvest.com.
That is
helping to reduce food waste and creating change for farmers across the country. Why of all the things that you could have aimed at?
Um and I know you're aiming at many at once, but why is Planet Harvest so
Central to your mission at the moment.
Thank you. I'm I mean this is truly like a mission driven um
Passion and and pursuit of mine and
Um, I think I told you before that like there's nothing better than
being obvious by being contrarian. And and that's sort of how Planet Harvest was born, I saw through the Covid pandemic.
Um I got really close to the farmers because I created this farmer to family food box program.
That
Created grants.
That would enable farmers to sell their perishable produce.
Um two third parties, distributors, NGOs.
Churches.
who would then get it to the last mile of need, ensuring that when people needed food
the food in the fields wasn't going to waste by being tilled under as we saw in the early days of the pandemic. You know the supply chain shut down. So the restaurants were closed, the airlines, the hotels
Um, so the farmers had no place to to send their food and couldn't afford to take it out of the field, so we created a grant program to enable
that connection, but it really got me
um very close at a at a farm level to to the farmer and and and their experience. And obviously that was
a catastrophic time when there was just zero demand. But but I started seeing even in a normalized situation
the amount of waste that happens on a food on a on a field level on the amount of food, beautiful, nutritious, perfect food that's left.
to rot in the fields while so many communities want for for that form of nutrition.
And um
And I I met a woman um who's uh CEO of the company and we decided to co found an effort together to utilize this excess and create demand for it and and get it into the ecosystem, supporting the environment, supporting
Um these great American farmers. Like I'll just give you one example. I mean strawberries.
four hundred million pounds of strawberries every year.
get left in the field. Not even taken out and and given.
Not because they're imperfect.
They're just
Don't meet
A really rigid
cosmetic specification that's defined by retailers oftentimes twenty, thirty, forty years ago, so that everything was very standardized.
It's just a great way to solve a problem, provide incremental revenue for farmers, which is so needed and such a tough business. So we're really proud of of the work we're doing there. It's a beautiful, beautiful. I'm gonna link link below if anyone wants to learn more, um, as many details as they can about the project and ways others can get involved.
Whether they're retailers or farmers or
Anyone that's interested in getting involved? Um,

Avanka, we have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for.
And the question that has been left for you.
It assumes you are a parent, so
Thankfully you are.
Um
Is if your oldest child came to you
And said they wanted to follow in your footsteps.
What are the three pieces of advice?
You would give them.
That would increase their probability.
of happiness and success.
Oh, that's a great question. Um
I think first and foremost. That's your eldest?
Yes. Arabella.
So would you say to Arabella? She says she wants to be an entrepreneur and
An investor and
I think first
You have to love it.
I think especially if you want to be an entrepreneur, like the amount of work and dedication
And grind the challenges.
um the responsibility as you build a business for other people's livelihoods. Um, it's it's enormous and it's
You know this.
I mean it's it's
It
can be very heavy um to carry and
I have never seen someone.
At the peak.
Of their game who doesn't absolutely love what they do. And I've seen a lot of brilliant people I went to school with, many of them, who were way smarter.
Then anyone else in the class who
Flamed out.
by going in a direction that they were capable and proficient in, but not passionate about.
So it has to you have to want it because if you don't somebody who's less um
Perhaps less capable, perhaps less smart.
They'll work twice as hard.
And like you can't compete with that.
Mm-hmm.
So that's number one. I think number two.
Is um
You can't imitate anyone, you have to be yourself. And we've talked a lot about like knowing thyself.
But um
Actually uh
Naval, who's uh a friend of mine who's who's great.
Um
he talks about like as an entrepreneur the
importance of authenticity.
And how
It's like
It's the key. Like when you're copying, you're losing.
Like you have to be yourself and then nobody can compete with you. Um, and so I think you
You have to sort of find yourself, be yourself.
you can't be derivative of anything else. Of course you can learn from others, but um but you have to blaze your own course and um and as an entrepreneur building something new.
You have to have also like a tremendous amount of resilience through that process.
And
You know, it's um
That's nuanced in and of itself, because that doesn't mean like you have to wear blinders and go.
When you know it's right.
But you have to also I mean they talk about the famous pivot, right? Like in like you also have to pivot sometimes, right? So it's not not to like a fault. You have to still
be receptive to
um to sort of incoming information. But for the most part, like you have to go.
And um and I think for a young person I would tell my daughter
You know, you're gonna have to believe in yourself before the world believes in you.
Like you can't wait for the world to believe in you.
Because if you haven't believed in yourself you'll never get there.
So you have to start and that's why like I love talking. Like one of the things I've I've been doing a lot of is investing in technology businesses, AI, robotics.
um incredible founders and entrepreneurs doing building generationally defining products.
um, and and developing these amazing ideas and I love seeing the belief and the conviction they have in themselves. And sometimes like it's like
Their experience doesn't match like their confidence.
But like you have to start somewhere.
And if you don't like believe in yourself, you'll never get out of the gate.
So so believe in yourself.
Charge forward.
And um
And then when you start putting up some Ws and getting some wins like the rest of the world.
May or may not.
Um
Start to believe in you as well.
Evelynka, thank you.
Thank you.