How a $200 Doorbell Became a $4B Business

Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/aec1ecb36bac55ed

Jamie created Ring Dorbell. You sold it for like a billion dollars, right? 1.15. The part after his decimal point is worth more than our entire career so far. I want to brainstorm business ideas with you. I want to see how you think. Is there a five or ten billion dollar company hiding in the bug space? Probably there is. You said I just don't know how to stop.
And sometimes it's not smart and it costs me.
Yeah.
You're gonna make me cry, Sam?
You gonna you gonna do this?
I feel like I can rule the world, I know I could be what I want to
I put my law in it like my day song on the road, let's travel. So Sean, listen, if you're like me, you woke up this morning, you roll out of bed, you checked businessinsider.com.
And you read this amazing article about Jamie and it just says, I'm Jamie and I'm the CEO of Ring.
And I have the world's worst morning routine.
And it's a whole article about how he rolls out of bed.
He scrolls his phone for about four hours. Everything they say he shouldn't do. Like immediately like all the wrong shit. Like everything.
That was the whole article about how JB has the world's worst routine.
Good PR strategy. Right. Like they sit down with you and they're like, Hey, we need to get some cool like tech billionaire weirdo stuff. What do you got? And you're like, Nope, don't have anything. So they're like, Okay, we've got to use that.
Yeah, like the average guy from Missouri.
Mm-hmm.
Are you from Missouri?
I'm from New Jersey, but I tell people I'm from Missouri now because I have this farm in Missouri and I've decided that there's no reason why
You can't just be from Missouri.
Guess where I'm from, Jamie. Can you just look at me and guess?
Sorry.
I'm from Missouri, Michael.
Saint Louis. So I my farm is in La Belle, Missouri.
So I'm in I'm from Missouri. You're from Missouri. You're more like a city folk, but
We are two and a half hours north of uh St. Louis. Dude, I love how he just out Missouri'd you, even though you were actually born and raised there. And he just actually was like, You're a city slicker.
Not a real true Missourian. We don't like you folks. This is like you going to like Tony Soprano and being like actually Tony it's brisquetta
So
Let me tee this up. All right. So
I did a call with Jamie and and it was super fun.
Jamie created, if you've ever seen a doorbell that has a camera on it.
This is the inventor. This is the man who did it. He created Ring Doorbell.
Grew it.
Sold it to Amazon for tons of money, and I was like, Hey, I want to kind of have you on the podcast and brainstorm business idea ideas with you. I want to see how you think.
How do you approach businesses? And he's like
I believe I don't know the exact quote, but it was something like, you know
Ideas are like my drug of choice. And he's like, I have this list on my phone of like thousands of ideas. Which one do you want? Yeah. Exactly. And so um, so I want to do that. Sam, you saw the doc that he sent over, which is gives us kind of bullet point ideas. We don't know what he's gonna say, but bullet point ideas. Where do you want to start?
Wait, can I ask a question before we get in? How much you sold it for like a billion dollars, right? Uh uh one point one five, but I mean if you want to ro you can round down if you want to, I mean. Okay, so we're talking to a guy who, you know, you have a billion dollar company and it's not a lot of different after his decimal point is
Worth more than our entire career so far. I think you just point out I did sell it for a billion when a billion was a lot of money.
Just a billion was cool. Back when a billion was actually like you could buy more than a cup of coffee with it. Well, can can we actually go to that story? Do you remember kind of where you I guess I'm always curious about two things. One
Was there a good negotiation story or like a throw out of number story of like how do you arrive at that 1.15 billion? And then like how did that come about?
It I mean what was cool with Amazon is you know, from the the we had been working with them on stuff for years. So I I I actually went to Amazon and showed this guy Nick Camoros.
the ring before we launched ring because we had been talking to them. They were with Alexa and stuff, they were looking at sort of they were trying to reach out to all the small
IoT people at the time. There's a lot of little hardware things bubbling up.
So I I even like literally like
brought them the first one and showed it to him. So we had been working together for a long time.
We were very like aligned on
Like mission, what we're trying to do. They started to look at video, realizing like with Alexa, they had, you know, the kind of the call it the ears in the home.
And they started to see the eyes and and saw what we were doing.
We had this
Yeah, kind of like dating awkward.'Cause we we would talk all the time. We'd meet and you know, Nick said, Let me come down and
Um let's have lunch, which was kind of not that abnormal.
And we're sitting there and next like, you know, we should kinda go to the next level here. And it was this like very funny
Like dating conversation of like
You know, it's like where you don't want to just like jump out and be like, Okay, let's do it. You know, it's like
And and it's like do what? You know, so so it's like we keep going back and forth like Do you mean? And he's like Yeah and I'm like two and like we kept going back and then he finally said, Yeah, like we it's time we should combine and
Yeah.
Not not a merger of equals, by the way, but uh that Amazon should buy you.
What was your revenue then? Do you know? Uh we were we did so that was twenty seventeen. So we we that year we did four four hundred and eighty million.
Oh, okay. So you guys were just huge. Was it a profitable business? Or were you burning money and you had to figure out? Which was so interesting is like
It was the ac like the f the
Of each like the individual customer economics were
Insanely good.
So the the the fund like the the fundamentals of the business, like the actual like
Business was good. It was growing so fast.
That like money was just being lit on fire everywhere.
And it's not that we like we we had crappy offices, like it's just
You have to hire so fast to get ahead.
Just think about like customer service. When you're growing it like
Five hundred percent a year.
And if customer service takes three to six months, like a person you hire to get up to speed.
That means you're hiring like
two to three X what you need at that exact time. Yeah. Just so that you can like not blow up.
as people are buying and the growth. So you're just you're just like putting out all this cash.
To do this stuff.
So I mean you start to think about it, it's like it sounds cool, but then
Like when you're doing
A hundred and seventy million and you're ordering for four hundred and eighty million?
It means like if anything slows down, I mean you are just like you're dead. Right.
It's like on one side, yeah, I'm sitting there with Nick and I have this I have a four hundred and eighty million dollar year business that's growing
You know, triple digits still like literally triple digits at that.
At that scale, which is insane.
And the other side is like and I'm going out of business every day.
Like every day I'm facing basically like the wall, like we're gonna hit the wall, and the only way to stop that is you raise a little money, you get a little financing, something else comes in, like so it was
Getting to a point where I just couldn't handle it. Like I I was you know, I was sort of
s the stress was getting to me. I mean it was you know it was years of just like that.
And then we we kinda got into, you know, started to get into negotiation.
During the negotiation and so I I wrote this book
And part of why I wrote the book is like
The story I mean it's a it's like a bit of a longer story, which is why a book is good.
But
During the negotiation.
I get sued by ADT.
Uh probably for something that was a little bit self induced, to be fair.
They win an injunction.
And literally
I mean and this is like
Holly I you can't make this up.
Nick calls me and he's you know, you I'm gonna send you a term sheet over, you know, tomorrow morning just FYI.
Great.
An hour later.
The injunction hits us.
I have to call Nick back and be like, hey, just FYI, like not a big deal at all.
Doesn't it.
Shouldn't matter, like shouldn't matter at all. But like just like as a FYI, we did get an injunction from ADT on this lawsuit and he's like
Dude, we're out.
Yeah.
And and what does that mean? So ADT was suing you for for what?
So we had been building an alarm.
They had a s like a company that they had some part of that they were
sort of invested in that was building it, they stopped funding it, the company went out of basically shut down.
I hired all the people from there.
They told me I couldn't hire all the people from there. I
Told them in a very respectful way.
You know, I said like you know, please and thank yous.
I was like a total asshole and I was like so dumb and I just like
Yeah, again I I
You poke the bear. I poke the bear.
And it's like looking back, it's funny because
It's the s it's same like insanity and passion that like gets a company to go from one seventy to four eighty.
Is also the person that blows it up.
It's like you know, it is like the demolition man of like you know, it's the the the same person that can use the demolition to like
Clear the way for the road is also who can like blow everything up for everyone and it's my favorite Elon thing of all time. When he goes on Saturday Night Live and he goes
Yeah, I

All my money and I spent it on trying to get rockets that will take us to Mars and um electric cars.
And he's like
What did you think? I'd just be a normal chill dude. And it's like, oh, actually that explains so much. Of course. We can't have one we can't have mad genius and then also
You know, stable, respectful, peaceful, reasonable man over here. It can't be unreasonable in one area and totally reasonable in the other. And I think that's the
Problem is like
It it's just true. Like if you wanna do something, I mean Ring is a
one in a whatever generation company. And like I I say that as someone who like looks at it and I can't believe I'm even part of it. Like it's inc I mean, it's
It's a ver people
Just call it a ring. Like it's it's in I mean, to build something like that is incredible.
And so yes, like you y you probably have some traits that are
very strong, but those can cut both ways. And so
You know, when the person from ADT calls you and you're like think you know, like you're
Like in this sort of vortex of doing stuff.
You know, maybe you don't sort of take the time to say, like, why don't I just come to you? Why don't we sit down like we're two humans?
And work this out. And by the way, I'm
It'd be funny to like now go back. Like I'm sure if I had just flown there
Sat down for dinner with them.
I really actually feel like they probably should be like like
Fine, whatever, we're good.
Like we just wanted to, like, talk you know,'cause I want to say, like we just wanted to talk to you. Instead I was like, you know
Compl like lunatic.
You know, doing stuff.
Well
Why don't we teach you some business? And so they
They did. And to be fair, like whatever. And so that that was very it turned out to be fairly painful.
Alright, so you guys are about to get to the best part of the podcast. This is the part where we asked Jamie how he comes up with new ideas for businesses, how he came up with the idea of Ring, but also a lot of the other projects that he's looking into starting. And he's got this amazing name. It's called the Snowball Method, meaning he likes to find very small ideas that can eventually become big, but the problem is that these ideas
are so small that people don't notice them or they forget about them. And so here's what we did. We went and looked at what he's gonna talk about on this podcast, which you're gonna hear because you're gonna get to it. But then he's talked about the snowball method on a bunch of other podcasts, and we went and broke it down into a really easy to understand methodology. And so if you're interested in solving these four questions,
This guy, it's for you. So it's how do you spot billion dollar ideas hiding inside boring problems? Number two, what early stage moves actually validated Ring before it took off?
Number three, how do you keep momentum when your business feels stuck or you're on the brink. And number four, what critical decisions make or break a founder's path from$200 to a billion dollars. And so if this type of thing interests you, which I think it does, because you're listening to my first million, you can get the link in the description below.
So you call the guy, you're like, Hey, feel silly even bringing this up, but there's a little lawsuit you should probably know about. And then
They he's like, We're out.
Out.
And you're thinking
Well look, you drafted the term she was just go ahead and send it over. And he's like, No, no, no, we're out. So how did it go back on? I said, Why don't we just keep the negotiation going and like you know, if I settle this thing out, then like we're good. He's like, Dude, we're not like Amazon's like not we're done. Like it's it's like basically like pencils down until whatever.
On the flip side, which was great, is I had a safety net. So like, don't worry, I'm totally fine. Like
I'm going into this Amazon deal with a safety net, which is if we don't do the Amazon deal, I'm gonna raise
Two hundred million dollars.
So
I also had to call them and say just FYI
Like I know this deal, like we're about to close it for this money.
And and just FYI, like we had this little injunction.
On that little thing that I kind of said that was not gonna be a big deal.
And they're like, Yeah, we're out too.
It's like the two doors I was looking at is like selling to Amazon or raising two hundred million dollars. It was the first time I was gonna take secondary money off. So I was gonna actually take some money off.
The table.
And meaningful money. Like it would have been like real for me.
And so those are like the two things I was like sort of
looking at going into the holidays, basically.
And all of a sudden both those doors evaporated and now we're negative like seventy million in the bank because we didn't plan.
The cash flow because it was like
one of these doors is gonna happen, you're not gonna raise more money
Like I mean.
You're not gonna raise like a third set of money, like you know.
So all of a sudden we like go to like basically we are like technically like a
Bankrupt company.
Almost immediately.
Okay, go on. I'm hooked. So what happens and for more importantly.
What's the conversation you have with yourself in that moment?'Cause I think
You know, there's what you did.
But there's also what you said to yourself before you figured out what to do. Yeah, so what's uh the like my i so again to traits that are good. Like the one thing I do have, which is probably
You know, has kept us from completely blowing the the place up.
When things really happen like when things are really, really bad
I go into like a pilot checklist. Like I am just like
Deadpan com
We gotta do this. We gotta do this so I'm like we have to we're going to the holidays, we we have to sell everything. We have to like
break every record. We have to like it's like the only way to survive is just like we gotta like do this.
Um
And
We also have to stop paying our bills to anyone that can't like, you know, actually like tow us away.
Right.
And so we did that too, which was pretty that was and that's
That's not fun because like you're
Calling
people that have worked, you know, vendors and you're like, Hey listen, like I I know, but if you if you like
Stop shipping this.
We're dead. If we're dead.
Everything you've already sent is dead. Like you know it's just it's a bit of like it it it it
It's not a conversation you wanna have. That's everyone's problem at that point. Yeah.
It it's horrible. Like it's just a it's just like a bad it's a bad situation.
And then did the lawsuit go away?
So we
Like we're going through whatever we go it it's crazy is we go through um
Yeah, Black Fri Black Black Friday, Cyber Monday, like that whole sort of week.
We literally blow out like every like everything's like ring is just the it's the product of the holidays. Like it's the number one seller. Best buy. Like it's just literally like
And
Fire.
By the way, on that.
If this wasn't happening.
How much less do you think in sales you would have had, you know, like percent wise. How much do you think you got extra just with the forcing function of necessity?
At least I there's definitely like probably like
low double like ten percent, fifteen percent at least. At least. And was it just your intensity?'Cause it's like we have to, or did you come up with a new idea? What'd you do? We did everything. Like every social post, every this. Like I mean we just had people like we did like yeah, you just like you put it all in the field. Like you just like
Send in your best everybody. So we just went crazy.
Um but it for sure. I think for sure that was a part of it.
Um but we need like we needed to. Like we needed to like literally break every number, blow everything out.
Um
And still with that, like it wasn't clear that we would live. It just felt like
It was
Gonna be more likely you'd live if you

Blowing it out than not.
Um
And so we
Doing that and then all of a sudden ADT calls and says hey
Would you like to talk about it?
You know, settlement. It's like a it's like imag like imagine if you had like
Yeah, if someone's like literally like you have no oxygen, you know, they're like, Hey, would you like a little oxygen? You're like, Uh uh uh I'd love some oxygen. And so
Mm.
We went and they were actually like
Pretty like fair.
And
Once we settled like that like
Everything else was amazing. It was this weird thing where like everything underneath was like
The best ever.
And we had this just one cloud that that that moved everyone away.
And as soon as that
dissipated and went away. Like it was you know I mean, so we basically it was like December ninth or something.
Yeah, that we settle.
Um
Which is pretty fast.
That's that's really fast, right? So you go to this like it's this thing you go to like this um
Um
This office where there's like two conference rooms, and this this judge, like a uh a retired judge as he walks back and forth between these like two conference rooms, like you're in one and they're in the other.
And just they just keep going back and forth all day and then
It's the craziest. Like finally like okay and you're like okay.
And then you sign it and you're like, Are this is done? And they're like, It's done.
I'm like done done like I kept like it was like like a like you know like a Laurel and Hardy like done done done done
And then you know I called I literally I called Amazon.
And just said just FYI is settled. And they said
Okay.
It was like
You know, like that's all like we love the business. We just didn't you know, we didn't want to get involved in that.
And so once it was settled, they know that was like December ninth or whatever.
December thirty first, we signed for one point one five billion.
To sell it.
Wait, so the deal closed thirty days later after the turkey. So we signed the LOI, like the binding LOI, like literally like less than thirty days. So did you shop it around as well?
I I I didn't.
Um for a number of reasons. The the biggest one was
I did not
know of another buyer that would back our mission. So we were very missionary around
Making neighborhoods safer.
What were your interactions like
with uh with Jeff Bezos.
So Jeff loves entrepreneurs so much that they've learned not to have him
Um
Yeah.
involved in the in the purchasing because I think Jeff would just be like I love you, man. Like he's like Jeff's so great. And so
So I didn't actually I mean, I had met him like once before, but I didn't really kinda know him. And so really it was post deal that I got to
Yeah, really start to spend some time with him.
And he is just one of the greatest people ever, uh, for lots of reasons. I I say the number one is he's just like a good human.
Do you have any good um
basis stories of like, you know, it's'cause rare that you, you know, get to actually interact with or in your case work with
Because there's always levels to the game, right? I meet people who I think I'm doing great, then I meet somebody
I'm like wow, that person's got a different level of intensity, or they're a different level of sharpness, or they ask a different style of question.
And so you but you don't know until you meet him, right? You don't even know what level twelve looks like until you see level twelve. Yeah. And so I'm just curious, like did you have any moments like that with uh with with Bezos? Definitely many, many moments. I'd say the biggest thing I took away from Jeff is he's the most
Positive
person I've ever met. In like the weirdest way, because he gets shit done. So it's not like he's like just like, hey, good job, guys. You know, it's like but
He's able to just like be so patient.
on things. And I and just like he he like sees the future.
And he's just very patient and and and very positive. And so I've
I've tried to it's it's definitely different than my personality. You know, I'm I'm sort of more like, you know, punch a wall, kinda like run around and yell a little bit more like the it's just like kinda like more like that like
Maybe like inventor passion.
But he has taught me to sort of try to
Like just be a little bit calmer and let things sort of work themselves out versus like forcing everything. I think maybe that's the the the biggest learning.
Well and why have you stayed this I mean how the the deal was what ten years ago five years ago it's twenty eighteen, so seven seven years ago. So why why are you still there?
I mean, obviously m I mean, money is probably a big part of it, but is there Oh dude. Mission. He's gonna say mission. I could bet anything he's gonna say the mission. Um, you know uh
I actually so in 2023 I ended up stepping down. I was just, you know, I'd I'd taken the company, almost 10X it from when we got to
Uh Amazon brought it profitable. Like I felt like I had delivered like the package. I'm like, here it is.
pretty amazing. So you grew it to four billion revenue.
Around there, yeah.
Oh my gosh. That's wild. So it it you know the thing just kept growing. It just kept like it's just insane. And so I I
Finally it was just like I am
I'm feeling like super burnt out on just the like a whole thing. I step back and I and I did realize I missed
Just
I just missed like ring. Like I missed the the mission. I missed what we're building.
I love like yeah, I'm an inventor at heart and being able to be at Amazon, you can invent at scale.
So
Yeah, an inventor, the best thing for an inventor is like see your invention out there.
Yeah, but it's pretty amazing that like most inventor I mean, I mean, there's many inventors that are successful with Dyson. There's you know, Edison was a good businessman, but uh you know, uh maybe maybe Musk would be an inventor. I'm not sure who else, but
But
Typically the stereotype of a of an adventure is someone who's got like two different matching socks and like they don't like know how to do anything, um, other than like invent.
And they're a little bit messy and whatever.
But it sounds like you actually knew how to operate.
I s I would say I've used invention around operation, but I don't operate I certainly don't operate in a normal way. So um like I've never had a staff meeting. Like everyone's always like, you know, what day do you do your your staff meeting on? I'm like I've none.
Um,'cause I've never had one. We never had an all hands meeting at the company into like so we you do things when you need to. So there's a lot of things like I don't have those like processes of how to like run a business.
Dude, you are exactly like you know who he's like, Sean? One hundred percent.
Oh.
A lawn. Um
The card game.
Yeah, Elon Lee. Yeah, Elon Lee. Elon Lee. Oh my. He had the exact same mentality where he was like, Yeah, we don't do this at the company where whereas Sean and I were like, Wait, but I thought everyone had to do all hands. He's like, Well, I thought about the reason why and we just invented a different way to do it. Yeah.
Yeah, and I think if you can turn like again, like it's still inventing. Like it's like just like just cause it's not a pro like a physical product or just cause it's internal doesn't mean it's not an invention. So I do love that, like
You can use invention across the board.
Um, and especially like how you build a business.
I I would say like I mean this is where Dyson
I think and I don't I don't know him, but he's like he's like my mentor. I just this is like the mentor I don't know.
Um
But like look at what Dyson's been able to do by having built a great business. Like if he hadn't built a great business, he'd just be a guy in a
A barn somewhere in like Oxfordshire or some shit.
Um
And instead, you know, he's like able to like build all this crazy good stuff and have this company. So I think I did feel like the business was
Something you needed in order to be able to
Like get your inventions out there bigger. And that's that's kind of what Ring has been. And then being at Amazon that like that's just like
Yeah, a thousand X that.
Was there a moment in those early days for Ring where it went from
Not working, like it's not a thing, to it's a thing, like an inflection point where
You know, it or did it take off right away as soon as you had the product, people started buying it.
It's certainly you know looking

Probably took off
More than I thought.'Cause like being inside of it, you're sort of dealing with the problem, so you don't really see it.
As easily
Um like again, when I wrote the book, I kinda like was able to like go back and like
think about all of what was happening and look at it in a different light. And so
Um
It was two thousand and sixteen, my wife was out trick or treating.
Um I was away on something.
And that was like the years she called and she's like, This this is year it's like an every house has a ring. She's like, This is insane.
Um
And I think you really felt it'cause like they're literally trick or treating and like they're like hitting like the ring like every house.
Um so I I think there was like some moments like that.
That's gotta be like one of the most proud moments ever where you're like my wife is seeing it. So so I mean, like we we would literally drive around I mean, early, like and yell like when we saw a ring on a house. Like it was like that was like a and then
We s kinda had to stop the ring game because it like like it was like you just became yelling ring the whole time.
Um
But but early on, yeah, I mean it's like and as an adventure, like that's
That was
You know, if I I I never felt like it was successful until we got the wire just because I felt like it could blow up.
But I did feel like I had created something
meaningful and had that like satisfaction of that just by seeing like seeing these on everyone's front door and
Um the stories that then they created, like the
You know, stopping a crime, doing whatever. Like those those were the things that were like that was amazing. I'm curious. The wire hits.
We've asked a bunch of people about this on the podcast'cause it's a
You know, it's a moment you look forward to as a founder like like crazy, but you know
It's hard to actually get there.
And we've had some guys say, Yeah, with the wire hit, you know, he's like, I went to the ATM the next five days just to print balance. You know, never pushed that button before, but I was just so excited.
Or um you know, some people feel lost, you know, right afterwards. I guess like
Wire hits. What uh where were you and what what was going through your mind? I I I So I had booked um I don't know if you had this company Task Us, but um the the that's a great
public company now. Um the founders are friends that were, you know, kind of kids from Santa Monica that I had known.
uh that started it and they asked me to speak at their customer conference like six months earlier.
And it was in New York just like on whatever, some random day in April.
Of twenty eighteen.
Um
Because of how everything happens, like you sell, like you finally announce it, then the government has to inspect it, then even after that, there's like
They have to like file stuff and whatever. See like the actual wire date is not
Like any of those dates.
It's kind of a random time when it just comes.
So it ended up being like
I'm at
This
event and I'm speaking in New York.
And I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm sorry, everyone. Like I'm gonna I'm my like my phone's out. I'm like I'm like I can barely even like I'm like just like I'm so I'm like I'm just gonna
Keep refreshing this because the wire's supposed to come in. And everyone known like they knew I'd sold. So
I'm like the wire hasn't come in yet, but it's supposed to come in right now and I just like I sorry I
You know.
Well, Spargo, you know, it's like.
And um You're like on stage, you're like, look, I know I was talking about customer service, but today I'm gonna g I'm gonna give a talk on how to get rich. Yeah, and like and like you know, money doesn't matter to me, it's all about mission, but like
But like you know hold of the next hour. Yeah, it's like it's like it's all and and and literally like it
You know, it comes in and there's like just commas and commas and commas, and it's like how many commas could this be? Like you know, it's like like
Yeah, like comments and comments.
I just I uh
Yeah, I it was the best
I mean, especially I I just gone through
The most traumatic

And from a money side, like I if if if Ringhead exploded at that point, which it I mean, it it got right on the edge of
It would have been like really impactful to my family. Like and I like it. Yeah, but you like uh
Just
Not broke, but like were you just like, you know seven like
Hundred fifty, two hundred fifty thousand dollar a year salaried person.
Like that, yeah, it was like a hundred and fifty, I think, at that point. And I prided myself, and this was by looking back, a real mistake.
I prided myself on being like the least paid executive.
Yeah, man, that makes you desperate. I did the same thing on a much smaller scale, but it it made me desperate.
And that's exactly right. So
Here's the other problem. When you're making that kind of money and you're at a company say four eight million
People are like, Hey come to this charity event.
Oh, it's only ten thousand dollars a table.
Uh do this. And you kinda have to like
You're
It's like you have to sort of take part in some of this stuff, but you don't actually have the money.
So you're you're you're spending even more than you would making that salary regardless.
So yeah, I w I was like I mean I was
Basically zero dollars and I mean
Yeah, I wasn't like n I wasn't like in
Debt debt, but I wasn't
I didn't have like a nest egg.
And so if Ring all of a sudden went away, like that was all my
Like future money was in ring.
I love how honest you are. Most people the more successful they get and the more
sort of you know, these moments like they try to either downplay or they're just less uh less honest. And I think I and by the way, I think this is why when I called Joe, I was like, that dude's happy. I was like, uh it's not like you're like, you know, some yogi or you know a monk who's just like, you know, at peace. That's not that. But I was like
I f you f you seem free, and I think that that's something that
We all hope success gives us, but y it's actually not the success that gives you that. It's you have to decide how you're gonna be. I think also again, when you're facing like when you see what
The other side is that clearly
I I do remember. Like it's like I remember how lucky I am sort of every day, like
I wouldn't call it like the i I mean it is success, is it like money but like money I think
I've so many friends that have a lot of money that are not free.
Which is a shame because like that's really what this gives you is the freedom to do what you want. Like I get to wake up and
work on things that I want to work on and impact things that I wanna impact and
Be with my
Sun and take him on college tours this past weekend and
Like I get to do things
Um, because of that. And that yes, like I am like a o overall I'd say like that is very happy.
I wanna take the mindset that you used.
to build ring your approach as a as a founder.
And kinda break that down and then see what other ideas
might fit that. So one of them that you told me. You said rule number one.
Yeah, I like to start with the problem.
Not the solution or the technology.
And so you know, what did that mean for Ring? And then what's another example of an idea where you could where you could take that kind of problem first approach? Yeah, I mean so so ring was I was in my garage, I couldn't hear the doorbell. So like what like what do what do you need to do is you need to hear the doorbell. Now
Wh when you find that problem, it turns out a lot of times new technology
can help impact it. Like, oh there's smartphones coming out. Okay, well those have screens. Like
Uh, there's Wi Fi now in homes. There's like this so it is that technology can assist the problem. I think the pro the the issue is most a lot of founders
Well say I found this new chip that's out there. What can we do with this?
And so they don't find a real problem. They just like, you know, it is a technology looking for a problem.
I like to start start with like actually something that is
A true problem and then
It doesn't matter what the tech is. I mean that's part of what built Ring into the
Where it is today.
Is and again you you're gonna laugh admission, but
By being
Mission to make neighborhoods safer.
We don't follow any
Technology. We're not a camera company.
We're not a alarm company. We're not a social network company. Like we are just a making neighborhood safer company.
Which means like regardless
What comes out or what what we can think of, it doesn't matter what it is. If it's a steam engine in the middle of the neighborhood and that's gonna make things sure, I don't care.
And so you take that now when if I'm you and I'm like, Oh, I was in the garage, I couldn't hear the doorbell.
I think there's a part of me, the inner critic, that would have been like this is too small.
Like, you know, that doesn't sound like a big fancy idea. I'm trying to do big fancy. I'm trying to be a big success, not a small success.
And you know, you it is it that you did napkin math on like how many doorbells I could sell? Is it that you just don't care about the market size? Like how do you think about that? There's a a a guy who's like somewhat successful and
said to me, it was the most insulting thing like almost anyone could ever say and
Right when I'm doing this, he said to me, I kind of put his arm on my shoulder. And he was much much more successful than me at the time. I am now much more successful than he has ever been.
And he put his arm on his shoulders and said, Like, I love you, man.
'Cause you just like to work on these like little things and it's like so cute and fun to see.
And I was like, Oh my God, like that was the most like it it was like the when you're finding these things, it's if they were obvious that they were huge problems.
Some will be doing it. So it's like you have to find these
problems that are sort of not obviously huge, but sort of have that
Have
Again, I look at it as like what is the what could it be? And so like with the doorbell
It was a small thing'cause even people were like, uh, two hundred dollar doorbell, like there's doorbells are ten dollars and it's like so that was the problem, but
If you really looked at it and zoomed out, it was like everyone has a doorbell in their house across the world.
Like globally, like literally a doorbell's on every home.
So Was Nest popular at this point?
So Nest was popular as a thermostat.
Um and they have it sold?
They were just selling or sold to Google.
And drop cam.
was actually the Wi Fi camera that was out there that was doing well and that Nest ended up, you know, that Tony ended up buying at Google to bring into Nest.
So maybe there's some inspiration where it's like, okay, uh not the same thing, but like a household item. For sure. Oh, for sure. Like and I was actually like super in fact, I actually have a email to Matt Rogers, who is the co founder of Nest, like when the Nest came out, I was like one of the first customers.
And just in like it super inspires us, this like what you're doing here. So yeah, no, there was there was stuff happening.
But yeah, I think it's it is hard though to see like at the time how big a market is'cause again, if it was obvious, like everyone would just be like, Oh, the doorb oh it's just do a doorbell. Like look at this guy's doing a doorbell, like let's just it's gonna be huge. And no one thought it was gonna be huge.
Did you have like a dream where you're laying in bed talking to your wife, you're like, You know, I think
I think we can make a hundred million dollars one year one day.
I I
Didn't I kinda like built it.
My wife was the one who said like so this is and this is where
She's like, it makes me feel safer at home. And that was like, Oh, this is like again, like this is more than just like scratching my itch in the garage. It's could
And and that was when I realized that
That
the security market, like the overall security market had not yet started looking at how you could build
And invent products.
around presence and sort of like
True crime prevention. Like it was
The alarm was built in the eighteen hundreds.
And kind of was
Pretty much like
Very the same thing, which is like trigger
off of a trip and call
You know, uh Central Station. Like it was like that was kind of like best in class still.
And we were like, we can look at this problem differently, which which again that's
That was the superpower was the not just the doorbell, but then we did the floodlight camera, then we did like we did all these things that were sort of unique.
Um because we were look uh even the neighbors app, which is a you know, it's a huge
social network for crime and safety in neighborhoods, like all that stuff.
came out of looking at the problem and trying to solve it.
So what's an example of an idea today? You see a problem out there that you're like, somebody could go try to solve that.
Bugs. Like I just hate bugs. Like I've never found anyone that likes bugs.
And it's amazing that there's like no one has actually created with all the technology like we we launch rockets up in the air and land'em on like a little barge. We can like
Do all this stuff, but we can't get rid of frickin' flies at my house.
In Missouri.
And so I just I just feel like there's gotta be
simple ways to do this between like solar and you know, there's just gotta be like ways to look at this problem differently.
than just either hitting it with some toxin that's gonna kill us all as well.
Um
Or these other products that just don't work.
Is that your current obsession?
So I I I have realized over time you have to work on like one thing. Like you can't
work on ten different products. When I meet a founder that's like or you know, an entrepreneur that's I'm doing this and this and they're all different. I'm
I'd say
N you know, ninety nine out of a hundred times, like they're gonna fail because they're just
Splitting their energy. All right. Well, for the sake of entertainment, but also teaching our listeners and it's fun.
Can we walk through this? Let's say that you're not at Ring and let's say that this is like actually the idea.
This idea.
Potentially, I don't know how it's set I mean now it's obvious that ring is awesome, but maybe in twenty fourteen when you were fitted, they're like what that sounds so stupid. And so maybe like a lot of people are gonna think bugs, flies, that's it? That's all you got.
Like let's walk us through like this idea of like why this is a big problem and like how you would attack or how you would go about solving this. Yeah, so I I would just like literally
I would stick myself on the farm.
I would get the soldering iron out and I would just start like figuring out. I'd just be like it also I I'd immerse myself in the problem. Like
Why are bugs going on the horses? Like why are they like what are they attract like what are they actually attracted to on this? Like what are they doing? And I I would get on ChatGPT and I would be like trying to figure that out and I'd be like
Looking at everything and and I just figure out like what
Like again, simplify. Like, like how do I go from a first principles approach? Like what is the way to just get rid of these damn things?
At scale, what would that be? How could you do it?
Inexpensively.
Um my feeling is it has something to do with solar
And either like some like kind of screw mechanism or suction.
Just sort of like'cause you got it, it's like a big problem, right? Like it's like a it's like a mass volume problem. And so it's like these like I keep thinking of these like little stations that you just put all over your property.
And they're just continually sort of like collecting.
Um and and how to do that. So that's it, but I would just and I'd just literally I'd just be like
building this stuff. Like I would start I wouldn't I wouldn't do research. I wouldn't
Ask friends if it's gonna be a big business. I wouldn't spend time on any of that stuff. I would be out there like
With solar panels and
Dyson vacuum cleans hooked up to lights and
You know.
tubes and like I'd just be like doing this stuff.
Sam, have you seen Ju our frian's obsession with bugs?
No. So we have this friend named Julian who's like out of this world and like he's he's only eaten steak for like two years. And then now he's moved to Hawaii and he has a ranch and he's doing crazy stuff. So he he moves to Hawaii, he buys a ranch and he starts building like, you know, a home and he's he's got this bug problem just like you. And because
You know, the big project he was doing was the ranch.
The big problem with the big project was the mosquitoes. And so he's like he's specifically f focused on mosquitoes.
And so he told me he emailed me for like over a couple month period that like
Just different things he was trying to do to but what you're saying, like understand what the hell's going on with the mosquito. Where's the root problem of first principles? And he's like, Oh.
The problem is we try to kill the mosquito. No, you need to kill the eggs. Because if you don't kill the eggs, you for every one mosquito you're killing, there's like whatever, a hundred mosquitoes that are coming out.
And then he tried bought all the fancy contraptions and then he realized like oh they lay their eggs in the water.
And so what you need to do, and so I guess I don't know all the science behind this, but he basically has this thing I I got on the screen here. It's like this.
Just a bucket.
With water and then you spray this, um or you put this thing in the in the water that's gonna like kill the eggs when they try to lay them there.
And so it like stops the cycle.
Yeah. And he's like, I did it. I solved the problem with the mosquito, um the mosquito problem, which is that they want to lay their eggs on stale water.
So you put the dirt in the rest, you make old stale water as a trap for them, and then you put this thing in it that's gonna uh it's a harmless to human bacteria.
But it's gonna kill the eggs. And he's he and he was like so pumped and like look at this thing. This thing has eleven thousand bookmarks on a single tweet, which is like
Yeah, that's pretty uh that's pretty unusual, but it kinda shows a lot of people are like
You know, have the same itch, the same problem and don't really have a good solution for it. Yeah, so it's and it is like, you know, is is there a
five or ten billion dollar company hiding in the bug space? Pro probably they're it. Like probably. Like I mean it's
It's global. Like every like they're everywhere. It's it's also like I mean it's it's an issue on health.
Yeah, mosquitoes cause health issues, flies cause health issues. So it's like actually like there's like real impact. So if you can figure something out, like it actually it it it you know, it is probably
you know, a five or ten billion dollar thing.
It also seems like there might be like a
branding thing that you did well with Ring that like could be applicable in the bug space. Like I don't know what all the big bug companies are, but I know Raid
It's like they all literally like they look and sound like killing
With like toxin, basically.
And like the you know, uh it it's all branded in like a monster energy looking can.
And you know the way that
These new like Celsius and Alani New and Prime, like a lot of the new drinks came out and they're literally like just energy drinks, but with a
Like a m a different vibe. I think that's that's a good point. Is like there's like it is the same thing where there's like a there is a
Probably a new brand in this.
That stands for
And it's like it's not environmentally safe because like I'm like some eco warrior. It's because like you don't want to
spray shit all over your house. Like you live in that. Like it's like that's not good. Like we do these like
bug bombs and stuff, like there's no way those are good for you. Like it it can't be.
I thought the monster energy drink uh uh mosquito spray was a pretty good uh that was pretty good. Yeah.
Right? Isn't that what the can kinda looks like? It's like I wish someone would go do it. I I wish in like
It'd be amazing. Imagine five years someone comes back and says, I was listening to this thing. I had the same thing. I needed like a little push. I got inspired.
And I built a five billion dollar business out of it. Like that would be the cool like that would be the coolest thing ever.
w ray like we're at war. We're gonna go to battle. And like the thing about these what this weapon is if you don't aim it in the right direction, there's there might be a there you know there might be a self inflicted wound here. Yeah, but you know it's bad when you're using something when you're when you're when you say the name I can taste that
Like it's not like I can smell it. Like I can taste what that is like because it's like that toxic goes through your it like blasts through your skin.
My wife hates that stuff'cause we have a dog, we have a baby. It's like she's just like, Look, we can't just spray this stuff all over like yeah.
I don't know. It's too risky, right? Well were you like using it as hairspray? Like why are you spraying it all over the place? Well you know it is when like there's a bug that it's like that one episode of Breaking Bad where there's a fly in the in the in his like meth lab. Yeah. It was me with a bug the other day in in like my house and I was like okay
Fine mission. I'm like suited up in a hazard.
Just going to war, but you know, you get carried away.
Um
One of the things you had said I really liked was if you called yourself a snowball. Yeah, so the a snowball would be like if you think about the fly thing, it would be
I I
Hey.
These flies. Okay. Like that's the snowball starts going down the hill. And then I'm just like taking stuff and soldering it together, doing it like it's now it's gathering sort of its
And then it like hits something and like you lose a little bit off the snowball, but it keeps going.
And you just kinda roll down the hill and by the way.
Some snowballs when they're rolling down the hill, they hit s like a they hit the tree and they just explode. So like that could be the fly thing is
You get to this point where you just can't figure it out. That totally happens.
If you can see the finish line when you start, it's usually not a big good thing. Like it's it's like that's usually you're you're not
Like you're not inventing or you're not changing the world typically if it's like that clear how to get from start to finish.
And so yeah, it's like I just kinda feel like I just kinda roll down the hill and gather and and you hope you don't hit a tree.
And as you get to the bottom of the hill, you hope you're like a bigger snowball that's, you know, I guess uh yeah, hopefully good for the world. Like I guess snowball if if snowballs are good for the world that you
Are helpful.
When when we got bought we got bought by uh Twitch and Emmett, the founder
Um he's just
Yeah, great entrepreneur and I was like, you know, my value of being there I was there to earn out my deal and you know
be helpful, but I really wanted to learn from Emmett. I was like, this is the one guy I want to learn from while I'm here. So I asked him, I said
Hey, in the early days of Twitch, did you ever like send investor updates or anything? Yeah, I'm a little bit nosy. I was like, Can I
Would you share any of that with me? Like I would love to see that dude just as a entrepreneur, like what was it like?
Ten years ago. And he's like, Sure. So he sent me this update. And one of the things he wrote in there, he goes
It is one of his updates. Um
'Cause it was hard at the time. You know, they were doing a pretty unproven thing.
Uh
video game streaming and w wasn't clearly gonna be a big market.
But he felt a sense of momentum and he's one of the investor updates the title was
We're a steamroller going through a field full of flowers. And he was like just saying and then they had got like a hundred and fifty two streamers that week. And he was like, Yes. And so he was just taking a lot of pride in the small stage, because if you just keep looking at the small stage and poo-pooing it, you never build up the momentum. Yeah. And the second thing he said was like same thing. He goes,
Yeah, I really want to try to get into this like kind of adjacent space.
And I was like, why do you want to do that? Seems like there's so much more room to run still with game streaming. He goes, Yeah, but he goes, You never want to see the the finish line. He's like, If he's like, because I know he's like, I don't want to be able to see the like the horizon. Yeah.
Um at the end he's like, even if that's still five years away, I need to do something that's gonna push
the horizon out further so that we have more room to run.
Um, and I'd really never thought of it like that. But I guess, you know, as you play at scale, that's obviously like an important thing. It's actually I I think I always think of goal a lot of goals are actually ceilings.
Like y you think of a goal and you want it to be something like you
You kind of hitting a goal perfectly is probably means the goal wasn't set right.
Like you you wanna have these
um directional goals, like things that you could try to achieve that are sort of tangible, but sort of in some ways unachievable.
So that you're always like to your point, like you're just trying harder to get like it's it's the carrot on the stick in front of you where like you can kinda never get the carrot, but you keep going for it.
You have a life philosophy and a life outlook that's very different from mine, but frankly I'm envious of how you think about things, both like
Where you like, I start with a problem and I'm an inventor, which sounds basic, but the way that you do it is quite nice. You have a really good attitude. Uh, and then you just made this line about like goals and ceilings.
What people or what books do you think have influenced you? And if Sean and I or one of our listeners wanted to like
kinda developed this Jamie mindset besides your book. Shout out your book. Yeah, thank you. I mean I would of course read Ding Dong by Jamie Simvinov. I mean I think that's the the how-to guide of uh
Uh uh of business. No. Thank you. Thank you. In all seriousness, no, I would um
I think the
Book that stands out the most for me is the Walt Disney biography.
If you wanna read this, like get ready. Like you better clear your calendar'cause this thing is like I think the audio books like
twenty four hours. I mean it's whoever did that audiobook died afterwards. Like it was like that was like like of all the people that I've talked to and all the biographies that I've listened to.
The Walt Disney biography might be the most cited version I've ever heard. And like Walt I've never read it, but there's all these stories
Uh where like
On the small things. Like apparently someone was building like a train in Walt's backyard for his kids or grandkids. I don't know, something like that. And he wasn't there like a contractor that says, like, well, we can't make the train curve. And he's like, Well, it has to curve because when someone's on the train, I don't want them to know what's coming up next. That is the embodiment of it. And it's also he was so
maniacal about every detail of every experience.
And I was what I was gonna say is
When you read this book, you realize that he was tortured.
He could never achieve
what he wanted to which was like absolute perfection.
of this. And so when a movie would come out, like my my the the thing that I took out the most from his book was
Every movie that would come out,'cause you know, he was pushing animation ahead, like like the the technology in animation.
So like Snow White and the Seven Dwarves come out.
He's sitting in the theater in the back.
Everyone's watching it like literally mind blowing, like seeing what's up there.
But because he's already working on the next movie and the next iteration of animation, he knows that this is shit. Like he knows that like
That movie is not as good as the next one's gonna be.
And he's like literally like crying in the back of this theater.
That he's showing such a bad product to people'cause it could be so much better.
And all he wants to show'em is the next one.
And I thought that's like the struggle of a true inventor and entrepreneur and like product person.
He's like
You just
Like everything I put out, I'm mad because I know I can be better. And it's like that just that constant thing. And that's
Like that's how you drive to be the best. Um
There's definitely, you know, like I I think you look at some of the greatest
Inventors and entrepreneurs out there, you see that constant just like that that
That that drive like that engine that just they can't stop.
Yeah, you seem a lot happier than him. Um what's his uh
A good attribute to also have.
It's not terrible.
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Another one of your your philosophies as an entrepreneur that I really liked was you talked about this idea of
Tom Brady.
I've used this.
Uh you know, I did we did this call before this pod uh like a week ago or so.
I've already used it twice in my thinking in between. So that's when you know an idea sticks. So could you explain the Tom Brady
a hiring thing. Yes, I I mean every team, like when you get to the whatever, and I'm not that into sports, but you know, they trade like the first trade pick for this and like they're always trying to get like the first pick.
Of the the the
The of like the what is it called? The uh.
The draft.
Is how much I'm into sports.
So
But like every team
They they had a the chance to get Tom Brady
Multiple times. Like it's actually insane. It's like they didn't just have like one shot at him. He was the hundred and ninety-ninth draft pick.
Like everybody had the chance to get Tom Brady, and so
Well, everyone's focused on like whatever the the the number one draft pick of that year, I don't know, the number top ten, I probably are unknown to us today.
Um but Tom Brady is one of the greatest athletes of all time. And so
To me, as a as a business, you have to find the Tom Brady's. They're actually out there for you. Like everybody has access to Tom Brady or the Tom Brady of your business of that area.
It's like how do you find them? How do you incentivise them? How do you let them become the Tom Brady?
That is just the amazing thing. Whereas
I meet with founders who are like oh I'm trying to get the person from the company to the this.
And it's like that's the number one draft pick, and you're gonna just probably pay too much.
And honestly there
Probably not gonna be known in ten years.
Great.
Sounds good.
How?
My so I there's lots of p people have lots of different methods for finding great people. My thing is
Uh higher fast.
Fire faster.
the mission really helps. So you sort of bring someone in, like the interview is basically like
I mean, obviously like do you have the skill to do the like the basic job. So like it's like there's like a sort of a a
light bar. But oh above that it's just
Are you passionate?
Do you want to work on this problem with us? Like do and do you really want to work on this problem with us? Like, do you want to wake up in the morning excited about this problem?
If you're passionate, you want to work on the problem and you have the minimum skill set to do it, we'll let you we'll let you try.
Like it's just like
I don't know, go out there and throw the ball, like see how you do.
And you give them
Massive autonomy in their area. Like give them the ability to succeed or fail. I think another thing that a lot of companies do.
is they so like wrap you in soft like in they don't want you to fail
So they stop you from succeeding.
It's like such a weird thing. It's like they like they they're so worried that maybe you're gonna, you know, if you you're not able to do that level of the job. So we gotta be careful. Like we don't want you to be it be over your head.
Versus like
Let Tom Brady be Tom Brady. Let him throw the ball. And and and and when you let those people do it, it's like it's incredible.
And
Yes, in the process of that you're gonna have people that are just gonna like not be able to
You know, succeed at those jobs and you
You know, you move on with them and you do it. And I by the way, you can be compassionate in that. It's not you don't have to be
Um how fast do you fire?
Like when people say hire fast, fire fast, that's that's a little bit vague. So like uh let's say you meet someone, how fast would you allow you? I would say at that time, like I mean, yeah, we're probably not
In that sort of like with
Amazon now and stuff, it's like obviously it and it is as you get bigger, like the things are a bit different.
Back in the start days, I'd say like three to six months.
'Cause you certainly don't want to like
It's not like the first day someone comes in, you say, like, Okay, you're bad. Like or or you're good. I mean, it takes someone a little bit of time to get their like their feet wet, get sort of get their footing.
But you wanna be pretty quick. It's it's I would say it's very rare if you talk to almost anyone that, you know, an entrepreneur or leader
That they say like I wish
Uh
P pretty much any way that you say like when they fired someone, it's like I wish I'd done it sooner.
So three to six months.
What about hiring?
Hiring is like on the spot.
I'm a I'm a I'm a on the like I mean again it' Amazon is a little bit different now. So I'm gonna just be like honest of like yes, like we have a bigger company, we have like some more like a it it and
You have to do that. It's like that's part of the that's par for the course.
But
But yeah, we were like
Like Mimi, who is my chief revenue officer today.
She cold emailed me.
And said I worked at Dyson, I now work at Sonos.
Yeah, I see what you guys are doing. I'm in the neighborhood, I'd love to stop by.
So great, stop by. So she sits down with Don and I. Don runs our sales.
She starts talking, I look at Don, Don looks at me, I said, We should just hire, right? He goes, Yeah, I said, Okay, you're hired.
And she's like she's kinda like like are you two Jokers serious? Like this is like
I was just coming to talk to you and I'm like that done.
Like I was you I was like do you not want to work here?
And she's like, No, no, I want to work here. I'm like, Well then then just come in and work here.
She's like, what am I doing? I'm like, I don't know. You just said you seem to like know all these problems we have. So like go fix them. Like I like.
You just told me that we're doing all this stuff wrong. Like why don't you just take whatever that is, like make that job title and go do it.
And she's our chief revenue officer today, so
Have you ever heard Warren Buffett describe his his thing with this with people and the too hard pile?
No, I actually haven't.
So um
This guy came on the podcast, Monish Pabry, and
He in the episode he described, he he bought a charity lunch from Buffett for six hundred and fifty thousand dollars. He had learned so much from Buffett. He had been so super successful.
doing Buffett's method basically and he's like this is
My my tuition is overdue. So he's like I'll I'll do I'll buy the charity lunch and and we'll go and I have no expectations.
So I said, What did you ask him?
And he asked Warren Buffett, he goes, Warren, you seem to be a really good judge of people. Like he hired some pretty great people inside of Berkshire.
And you've avoided a lot of the kind of like
doing the wrong acquisition. So you seem to be be a good judge of people. Um what's your what's the secret?
And Warren Buffett goes.
No, I don't think I'm that good at people. He goes, I think what I do
is I'm a very harsh grader.
So he said um
He goes.
Basically the cost of me saying no.
To a good person to somebody who actually turned out to be good.
It's not that consequential if say if they turned out to be good and I happen to say no'cause I couldn't tell.
But if I say yes to too many people
who happen to be really bad, that becomes a very costly and very hard for me to unwind. So he goes, If I was at a dinner party
And there was a hundred guests, and you let me spend five minutes with each person.
He goes, I could f without a doubt, I could tell you these five, no doubt, are fantastic.
These five definitely stay away. They're sort of toxic or there's something, you know, uh that I don't trust about them.
And then there's ninety people who I I don't know, I can't tell in five minutes. And they all go in what I call the too hard pile. It's just too hard to tell.
And he goes a lot of life just works by putting everything else in the two hard pile and just focusing on the five things that you were
pretty clear and pretty sure about in a very small amount small amount of time. And everybody wastes their time trying to get clarity.
On that ninety percent, that's very hard to figure out. Takes a lot of time and energy and you're gonna get it wrong a lot.
Yeah, that's I so and so kind of my method has been on the hiring is the too hard pile is
I'm aware that I'm not that good at figuring out.
Who's in that pile always. And so if it if I'm wrong, I'm just gonna be very quick to sort of

You can also be wrong pulling the trigger. Like if you're pulling the trigger after three or six months, like you can be wrong.
Um, I'll also say like there's lots of people who didn't fit our culture.

So it's not that
Like
failing at ring was failing in life. It was you just didn't fit what we were doing. And we are a unique
lock and you want a unique key to work in that lock. And that's where I always say the empathy side. Like
I didn't fire them being like you're terri get out of here. Like it was like
It just doesn't like we're not working out together.
Um
And I would feel bad for every single one of them that they have to go back to their family, whatever. Like that it was it's a that did weigh on me, but
I
also wanted the business to have this clarity and to move fast and to
I will say
The wrong people are
really, really could be like that's bad.
Can I ask you about one thing here? You said um I just don't know how to stop.
And sometimes it's not smart and it costs me.
Yeah.
It's like that's this is like the this is like the uh Jerry McGuire. Like you're gonna make me cry, Sam?
You gonna you gonna do this?
Yeah, I mean I think I if I if I look at like
part of you know it's it's even like we talked about that A T thing is like I just keep going. Like I just don't stop.
And you know, overall
That's probably like
Yeah.
I I think and I so I keep telling you young people keep asking me, like what should I do
you know, AI's coming out, like I don't know where I should go to college or what should I do. And it's like
Just put yourself in a position where you can just grind. Like just go grind because you you just gotta get out. Like it's it's no one knows where the world's gonna go.
No one knows what's happening. You can't control the world. Everyone like
acts as if they can. Luck has to be your co pilot.
And so just go out there and just just keep grinding. And a lot of those times when you're grinding it's hard because
When you can't
Actually see where it's getting you to.
You talk to entrepreneurs that have already made it. So it it's like people say the average business takes seven years to be successful. So we'll say to me, So you like it's kinda like you knew when you started that you had seven years.
It's like no, you don't ever know that it's gonna be successful. Like it's the average it's just
So I I do think the grinding thing is
It's under
estimated how hard that is to keep grinding because it's you don't see where it's going.
And you need sometimes to have these weird other factors happen.
That are out of outside of your control to make your success happen. Just like
Instagram coming out while we're building a camera at your front door.
Yeah, that superpowered our message.
I I didn't build Instagram, I didn't like push it out there, I didn't help it.
Um, I didn't know it was coming and but I kept grinding on my side.
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One of the things I like that you told me was um
You look for products.
where ninety percent of the marketing is already done. And I called it last mile marketing. And you were describing how this worked in your favor at Ring.
And how.
Sometimes an entrepreneur can go wrong if you if you really need to like educate the the market about something completely from scratch.
Yeah, so it's it's and I so I I would call it pre awareness. So if you can
If you can try to like
give a little bit of invention, a little bit of differentiation to something that has pre-awareness.
You it's incredible because I if you look at the there's a cost just look at like the cost. Like
A new to world product.
You have the cost to tell someone about it is incredibly expensive. Like if I have to tell you about
Some product and everything I have to tell you about it is is new to world.
It's very hard for you to understand it. And like go to the film business. Like when it's a completely new film
It costs more to market it than Top Gun Two.
Because Top Gun too, like you know everything. Like you know Top Gun, you know
You know, Tom Cruise, like there's so much pre awareness in that.
The doorbell.
Putting a camera on a doorbell, and again, I I sort of got lucky to learn this thing is
Everyone knew where the doorbell was mounted. They knew what the doorbell did. They knew like the functionality of it.
I just added like a piece to that. I did the same thing with a floodlight camera.
You knew what a floodlight looked like, you know where it goes, like you know what it does for you.
And now you add a camera to it. And so where wherever you can use this pre awareness, I mean, like liquid death, like
It's water.
Like you didn't have to tell someone like what this drink was, or like it's like but they changed like a piece of it. And so I just think like
Changing a piece of it, getting your edge on it.
Um in something where there's pre awareness.
great, great way to start because you get billions or hundreds of billions of dollars, like in my case, like the doorbell. Think about how much
Like advertising sort of dollars or whatever like you want to call it.
Um
You know, come from
The doorbell just being known for the last hundred years.
Alright, so I told everyone that um
You know, we give uh a list where we're like, let's start with ideas, let's start with strong opinions, and then cool stories. You have one on here that actually was probably one of the most eye catching things I've ever read.
You bought a town in Missouri.
Is that right? I I well I I I went to a town in Missouri that had um and a lot of these small towns now, if you go out into the Midwest and to some of these areas
Between like the opioid uh issues, industrial farming, like these towns have just been
Yes.
Pummeled.
And this town La Belle, Mazura, when I went there was really like I'd say it was in it was in pretty tough shape.
You're actually uh you're actually the second guest that we've had that has bought a town in Missouri. The first is Al Don.
He bought a a small town he him and his mom.
own a knitting company that is a multi hair.
Totally know that town. Yeah.
It's amazing. Yeah. So so basically Al and his mom, uh his mom started it and then Al uh I guess is like running it where it's like a knitting company and he has bought a town in Missouri.
And he calls it like uh Disneyland but for knitters. Yeah.
I think I think it is, but it's become this this place has become like the Mecca. Like people go there, it's amazing.
Uh by the way, Al, I'm so sorry. It's called Missouri Quilting Company. It's I've totally missed it. I actually I I I do want to talk I gotta talk to him at some point'cause I I he's done some amazing stuff.
W what I try to do though is just a little different. So they they've made it like it is it is an incredible destination and they've done an incredible like from what I've seen like an incredible job.
My thing was
I really just wanted to help bring this town and I again I I'm an inventor. I look at things that I
see that are sort of not where I believe they should be are a problem. Again, we don't know our problem, right? Like
What's the problem? The problem is that this cute little town
no longer has any business. The sidewalks are broken. Peep and also people's perspective had changed. Like
How did you show up there, though?
So I I invested in a business off of Shark Tank. I went uh back on Shark Tank as a shark.
Invested in a business called Moink. This woman, uh Lucinda Cramsey from Labelle, Missouri.
And uh and she has this direct to consumer meat company where we buy from small farmers and send it out very missionary. It's really cool little business.
And I go there and visit with my family and um
I just like fall in love with the place. My son's running around on hay bells. He doesn't even know what his phone is at that point. Like it's just like you know, we're
Coming from Los Angeles.
And he like
It's just amazing.
And I ended up buying a little farm there and fixing up the house and getting involved with the community.
The town was really in sort of a tough
Place.
And so we started fixing up the sidewalks and like kind of the broken windows theory of like if you kinda start fixing some stuff up.
You know would other people join in, there was a lot of like
kind of trash on some lots and like kind of that kind of stuff. And so people start cleaning up their stuff. We cleaned up the streets and the and the sidewalks. We then
took the building that was broken on the side of the thing and fixed it up and made it into a beautiful coffee shop.
There was no place if it's like crazy. There was no place within an hour.
to sit with someone during the day and talk to them about anything.
Except the bar.
And and I like going to a bar, but a bar is not a great place to have like a civil discussion about things. And so like the coffee shop is an important fabric of the community. So we brought the coffee shop there and it's like
That became cool and actually became successful and then
We helped fix up the
Tavern in town and made it this awesome. It's like the coolest bar ever, but it's like farmed a table with organic grass fed beef from my ranch.
Um no one even cares'cause out there they just like they're like, Well, whatever.
But it's like literally the best food you'll ever have, like anywhere. It's like incredible. It's like literally probably the best like beef in the world. And then a doctor put an office there in a help clinic.
Now and that's been helping and the town's gotten healthier and as that happens, people so it's like this again, this is the snowball effect or like the
the the the is incredible flywheel of you get things going and then people sort of take it from there. They also are like, I don't want this
Yeah.
Jamie, the city slicker from LA. Why is he making all the money? Like I wanna I'll I gre you know it's great. Like have the greed be there. Someone started building apartments, like little apartments there.
Um it's a town of seven hundred.
It's amazing.
That's badass. So what what do you think makes um
Like there's all those like levers that you talked about, like you know, the coffee shops are the people have the third place. There's fixing the sidewalks and the broken windows.
I imagine like I don't know, sports or church. There's like other things that kinda like revitalized the community. Was there anything that surprised you that like how how much of a difference it made? Like it seems small, but actually it's pretty big.
What surprised me or sh I should say should didn't surprise me. So when I went to it, I'm like, I'll just buy like you said, like I bought a town. Like and I I did not. Like I I
took part with others in the town to change the perspective. And so I was a catalyst, but like it turned out you needed everyone. So
Would you be comfortable revealing how much like you had to invest or how much money
It's
It's quite a bit, but I'd say the the
What really needed though was everyone to join in.
Like it wasn't like you could this is actually what's interesting, is it wasn't the money.
Like when I went there, it's like I w I saw the town, I'm like, I'll write a che you know, it's like sadly, like I was like, I'll write a check and I'll like
Just fix this whole place up and it'll be nice. Like I'll just do that. Like
And then
No one would even sell me any properties. Everyone was like ah like it
And then I just started to get involved in the town. I drive my backhoe.
into town, you know, like with a Bud Light and the cup holder and like, you know, talking to everyone and like
They realize that I'm just one of like I'm one of them and like we're just all This is like a a movie, man. This is the scene where like
This guy you might be all right. Yeah, like I and I did because I think
I am I love
Sitting out with them.
at the side of a pickup truck watching the sunset on the farm and
having a beer. Like I that's
My happiest place to be. So and then I started we started fixing up the sidewalks and I went out there and like
I was part of it. That was the other thing is
Truly being part of it. It wasn't the money, it was like showing that support. And then another guy in town's like, I'm gonna help fix this up. And I'm like, Great.
And we just it was
You know, it's also a created ring. It's like a thousand things that we did. It's not one thing.
And so it's like there was nothing that surprised me that was
Like one thing we did. I am surprised I me the the coffee shop I thought would lose money.
I just didn't want it to lose too much money. It actually makes money.
So that was surprising.
Um
But
I'd say what
The the unsurprising thing is it's like it's just
It's it's also a long thing. Like it's been seven years that I've been working on this now with the with the people there.
I say we're like
Now turning the corner, but it's probably another seven years to get it.
really where you'd hope it to be because it just
It's like every year you do another project, every year you do another thing. Like you can't just do it all at once.
Every four months.
Uh, in this podcast, here's what happens.
You see Sean and I sit on our hands like this.
If we just stare at you because
We're in. You got us. If you guys are in, let's do a podcast from LaBelle, Missouri.
Sam, I mean you can you know you can go visit home and then and then come up, so
Well, I'm in for that. I think it's so cool. I mean, even the way we said it was wrong. It's not that you bought a town. You invested time and energy and money into a town. You invested kind of a piece of soul into it.
And the idea is kinda like
Some
Places just need a little bit of that s like C PR just to bring'em back to life.
Yeah. You know, it it takes a little bit of pumping. A catal a catalyst. Like the like like I I was a catalyst, but I was not the
Right.
Again, it's like it it is a business, right? Like
It takes a team.
It takes everyone being on board. Everyone rolling like it's all these things are the same thing. Like it's it's not
just like getting venture capital money and you just make it. Like you don't just like
You know, do that. It it it's like it's very it's hard to build something great.
The uh the TripAdvisor page is pretty cool. You guys name stuff uh really well. It's called
The top place is the milkweed in.
The TikTok Motel. Tippy's Bar and Grill.
Stanley's Diner.
I'm in. I wanna stay in I wanna stay in e at all those places. All right.
That'd be awesome. I think, you know, in the s sort of like I I don't like
I the idea of legacy. I think legacy is just sort of like a um ego thing.
But I do think
Uh we do get remembered for certain things by others. And it's not always what we expected. It's not always in our control.
And I think what you're doing here is
is really cool. This would be if you're on a TED talk, I you know, I'd actually want to hear this story more than the the ring story. I think it's
It's such a cool life resume.
You know, when and I'm sure it's been very like satisfying and fulfilling in a way that
just doing another company or hitting another like quarterly sales goal would never do for you at this stage. And so I think it's pretty awesome to hear that because
I think you know.
We all want to
We're in the game of entrepreneurship.
Initially for the success and then s satisfy some insecurity, get some financial independence.
But then why do you stay in the game? Well it's'cause it's fun to play and two, like
These projects are just vehicles. It's just like workout equipment. Um, it's you're you're there to ha to like to go for a ride. You're there for to grow a little bit. And so I think this is a really cool project that
That you did. Entrepreneurs should be making the world better. And so like whether it's on a big scale, small scale, whatever, like we should just be like working to do that.
Is this gonna be like a second act for you? I mean, this is like
First of all, this is like
You know, I don't we have to figure out how the story ends and like hopefully there's like a good like fairy tale ending of it, like the town thrives or whatever, but like is there like a book here, is there a movie here? Because it seems like a pretty like
Uh pretty funny and like interesting tale.
I
I may maybe I I don't know. I I I kinda just would hope that I I just wish more people would go do this. Like I just think like we need to like it's
Like I if we could use if all the people that have learned so much could use their brains and a little bit of their capital
To do this, like we would solve so many problems because it is going to the root of the problem. Like
Like we look we keep we always treat the
output of the problems. Like we have hospitals to treat people that have had sugar all their lives.
But we don't stop people from eating sugar.
And then we try to
Tell them not to eat sugar, but we actually don't like do things to make sure that like they understand why. And so it's like
I think like
Part of this is like if you look at this this area now.
It's like healthier. Like it's like all these things. And so how do you like
How do you figure out like the root of problems and fixing it? So I I I'd say like
Lebelle is just like one of I don't even know 5,000 towns in the US that have the same thing. And if you grow up like that,
You know, the there's gonna be like societal issues that come from if we leave areas behind. And and so we can't think that like
I'm in New York City right now. I'm from Missouri. I'm in New York City right now and there's the Langone
um hospital nearby and it's just you know, the guy who started Home Depot probably donated a billion dollars to start this hospital. But then like
four blocks away, but this other hospital, this other hospital, this other hospital. All rich guys. And that's wonderful. You know, great.
But what is not talked about is like
Middle America or like
you know, instead of like donating to different countries, like it's it's not particularly accessible in terms of
it's top of mind or it's even thought of as a thing of like investing into a small town. But it seems like a really awesome way

give directly to the recipients. But also
The teet the teaching them how to fish kind of idea of like look I'm I'm helping
It's our town. It's your town.
And I'm just here as w a part of it. And
it makes it uh just a little bit better, which snowballs into something bigger. And that and that's really fascinating because
Every rich person
or a lot of Richard Brewers, they want to do dope shit. They do want legacy and like
It seems like a really great option.
I I think it is, and it's where you can also use like your superpower of what you've learned. Like you can actually like impart your knowledge. It's not it's not just money. It's like money obviously does help, but you need a little bit of that like spark to help.
But it's not
Cash. It's like actually more about using your brain and helping
And by the way, what you learn from it, like what I've learned from being there, is incredible. Like that's the other side. Like we
But just share more.
A lot of the tech guys, it's like, you know, cool to be in politics right now.
And um I've uh that is not my personal inspiration. And I hear a story like this and I'm like, Man, that sounds so much more helpful.
uh and very fascinating.
Yeah.

Very cool, Jamie. Well, I appreciate you coming on, telling the story. Uh shout out the book. It just came out two days ago. So
Um shout out the book, people should read it to hear to get the full story.
Uh what's it called? Where where do people get it?
So it's uh ding dong, um, how a shark tank reject uh went to everyone's front door.
It's available on Amazon.com.
Man, you're the best. We um you know, Sean and I have a bunch of favorite people. I think Jesse Itzler
Rob Deirdick we've had on about four or five other guys.
Uh
You have just made our our Mount Rushmore. Thank you for doing that. Thank you. I'll see you in Missouri. We'll be doing a a a f follow up podcast from there.
I'm in. I don't know about Sean. I'm in.
I'm in. I'm in. I'm in. How how can you say no after after such a great story? Well, thanks for doing it. That's the pod. I feel like I could rule the world and no way.
It'd be
But I want to
I put my all in it like my days off On the road less travel never looking back
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