Hydro Flask: Travis Rosbach. How a thirsty surfer changed the water bottle industry

0:00 We ran out of money. We had about Ten employees at that point. And so I write this letter that says, you know, dear employees, I'm sorry, but I'm

0:20 I'm gonna have to close down the business. Yeah. Friday morning I call everybody into the office to tell'em that we're closing down. And the phone rings, and the the lady at the front desk says there's this guy here who wants to see you.

0:36 And he says, Travis, I'm here to talk to you. And I said, I'm sorry, I'm not hiring and I'm not even interested. Thank you. And he says, Well I might want to invest. Welcome to How I Built This. A show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements.

1:03 They built. I'm Guy Raz, and on the show today, how an obsession with finding the perfect water bottle led Travis Rossback to invent a new one. Hydro Flask. Popular metal bottles.

1:17 in the country. Around two thousand seven, Travis Rossback walked into a sporting goods store looking for something pretty simple. A water bottle, a reusable container that he could take to the beach to keep cold water cold. And that purchase, or should I say, attempted purchase. changed his life because in that store, Travis could not find the bottle he was looking for. So he started looking deeper. And when he realized the product he wanted wasn't on the market, he decided to make it himself. People told him it couldn't be done, or that it would be too expensive, or that he didn't have the right background. And to be fair, he didn't. Travis wasn't a design engineer, he wasn't a materials expert, but he had an idea and a stubborn belief that it should exist.

2:13 And so this is the story of how Travis basically proved the skeptics wrong. But it's also a story about how much time and effort it took. To do that. Because this conversation really gets into the mechanics of building something. Painstaking hours of research and reverse engineering, the risky trip to China to find

2:35 Just the right manufacturer. the improvising and jerry rigging that went into making a first prototype. The company Travis eventually built became Hydro Flask, and in just a few years, he and his then girlfriend would go from selling bottles at farmers markets in Portland to seeing Hydroflask become one of the most popular water bottles in the country. Travis Rossbeck grew up in the 1980s and 90s in Salem, Oregon. After high school, he joined his dad in the Virgin Islands, where he got certified to become a dive instructor and later a private pilot. And as cool as those jobs were,

3:12 Travis was restless. He wanted to start his own business, and eventually he moved back to the Pacific Northwest and settled in Bend, Oregon. I had a girlfriend at that time and we rented a place, and one of the first nights we were there. We're sitting watching a movie and drinking a bottle of wine, and a guy walked into the backyard. And

3:35 So I jumped up and ran out back and He was building a fence at the rental house. And I thought Well that's an idea. I'd never even thought about people building fences before. How do you do this? And he showed me he's using metal pipes and clear cedar. There's no knots.

3:53 And bend was really starting to grow. About two thousand five or so. And So the fences and the houses were going in everywhere. And I asked him, I said, Well, are you doing the subdivisions? And he said, No, I just like to do one house at a time.

4:08 I said, well, why don't you do the subdivisions? Cause that's, you know, two hundred houses in one go. And he said, No, I I I'm not interested. And I said, Well, do you mind if I do that? And he said, I don't care what you do. I said, Well, I'm gonna do that. So I went back in the house and I told my girlfriend, I said, I wanna start a fence company. So we started bend fencing. All right, this is important'cause it'cause she will factor in later. Your girlfriend's name is Cindy.

4:33 Because she will you could we'll be together for a while and and start other businesses. But Let's talk about the fence business. How d what did you know about Like, did you know how to build a fence? Not at all. I had no clue. I I didn't know a postal digger from a pry bar.

4:48 So I Got on Craigslist and found a guy who worked at the number one fence company in town, Mike's Fence Center. And he was ready to leave there and I said, Well, come on. Come work with me and I'll I'll make you the the head guy. And he said, Okay. And so we went out and bought a truck and bought all the tools that the supply company told us that we would need.

5:14 And the day before our first project, uh he got arrested. And so Uh we were supposed to show up in Sun River and put in the first fence and Instead, I ended up going to the homeless shelter and found a couple guys that said they knew how to do fences. And

5:34 Went down and learned how to build a fence on on site. Alright, so you start this fence business and uh and and who You know, how how were you like competing against established fence companies? I have to assume you were you were charging less. Well

5:50 A lot of the fence companies were still using wood. And they would say, Oh, pressurized wood lasts forever and it's gonna be here forever. Well, no, actually not. It it rots and it breaks. So we were using stainless steel pipes. And then building wooden boxes around it. And then we're also doing clear cedar, which had no knots, and it just looks beautiful. It's a very high end looking fence. And so we were going in to a lot of the high end

6:20 Subdivisions. And how would you given that you had no experience and and I have to imagine you're in Ben, right? that they're established fence companies, who are working with developers, who are trusted, like how does a guy like you who has no con contacts or connections in that world, like

6:38 Ga the trust of developers to hire you. Well, we called it bend fencing. Which actually went quite a ways. A lot of our customers. Just thought we had been around forever. And why would we not be? We have the name bend fencing, and

6:56 And hired a lot of good people who taught me a lot and it's a high turnover rate and so I had to learn pretty quick how to build a fence myself and drill holes in the rock and get through the ice and stuff. So all right, so you run this business, I think you w would end up running it for Almost Two years, is that right? Yes.

7:15 And From what I understand, you you're getting burned out doing this. You're j it's just a grind. It's like seven days a week. You know fourteen hour days. No breaks. Is that a fair description?

7:29 It exactly was. Yeah, I try to take off a couple hours on Sunday, but Typically that wouldn't work. And I did. I got burnt out and I called The office, and I told her I said look. I'm gonna kill myself or kill somebody else. I have to get out of here.

7:44 And It was it was cold and I Was in pain. Yeah. I said either Mexico or Hawaii, but I need to go somewhere warm and I need to go quick.

7:55 And she called back and said, Yeah. And she says, All right. Come home and grab your bag and I took off to Oahu. And I remember landing in Oahu.

8:09 And as soon as the door opened, I could just feel the aloha. And I called her and I said. You can keep the company or You can sell it, but either way, I live here now. She said, Where are you? Are you at the bar? Are you drunk? I said, No, I'm still on the airplane. I haven't even got off yet, but I live here.

8:27 And I spent about nine days on vacation in Oahu. And Went back to Bend and said I I'm done. I'm I'm completely out of this. And we put it on Craig's list and sold a couple weeks later. Yeah, I mean I understand that impulse of landing in Hawaii and just thinking

8:46 I'm not ever leaving that place, uh,'cause I have been there and it's absolutely incredible and I felt that before, by the way. Um but you left behind your fence company, right? So now you had to figure out Something else to do. I guess you decide to start like A sign making company in Oahu?

9:04 I did, yeah. So I Uh there was sign shops in in Oahu, and there was a lot of them. Every couple blocks you'd see a sign on the corner that said

9:16 sign company or banners or something like that. And there was a huge amount of competition for it. But I wanted to I wanted to try that. I had a fascination with embellishing Uh a substrate in making it. different and beautiful.

9:32 So I thought well let's just buy a plotter. And start a sign company. A plotter is basically like a large printer. It's it's a like a razor blade that's computerized and so it cuts vinyl. Okay.

9:45 Yeah. Alright, so here's what what what I understand. You said that you You noticed a lot of sign shops in in Hawaii, like You know

9:54 All over the place. Like every street corner had a sign shop, right? And so why would you get into that business if It was already super competitive. Well technically what I would see were signs advertising. For

10:10 Sign. And so there were very few actual brick and mortar Sign shops It was that a lot of people

10:21 owned a plotter. And so they would make banners and call themselves the sign company. I see, okay. And I thought, well, if the best you can do is cut blue and black vinyl and put it on a white banner. I bet we could figure out a way to do it. Different and or better.

10:40 Then What you're doing. And you're in in Oahu, y you're living there with Cindy at this point. Yes, yes. What was her reaction when you said why don't we buy a plotter? And make signs.

10:51 She was down. She's she thought that yeah, that's A a wild idea, but why not? And Sure enough, there's a sign show in Orlando. And it's like it was in a couple weeks.

11:05 And so we bought tickets to fly to Florida, and at this big convention. I saw Uh this one booth called Fellers. And there was one guy, Frank, who's the owner. And so I went up and said, Hey, Frank, I wanna start a a s uh sign company.

11:24 Yeah. Well what do you need? I said, I don't know. Could you tell me? And he thought I was crazy, but they told us what we needed and what we should buy and shipped it out to Oahu and the guy showed up and installed the printer and it was a a 64 inch printer. So we could print banners as opposed to just putting vinyl on top of them. So we could do full color photographic image. Banners.

11:51 And where did you did you get a shop in Oahu? We did. Yeah, we Just got the biggest lease that we could find and afford, which was right downtown, right by the Blazedale Center, right by the big Coliseum. And we did screen printing and embroidery and hats and tablecloths and table throws. We ended up doing big outdoor signs. and we did a lot of like business development, branding, marketing.

12:23 Alright, so this sounds like a pretty good business. But I'm trying to understand Uh what happened to it? Wha I mean, why am I not talking to a guy who ended up, you know, starting a chain of sign stores? Like I mean you've got a business going, was were you making money?

12:40 Yes, we were breaking even and and and slightly pulling ahead. So We were bringing in a couple hundred thousand a year, I'd say, yes. Alright, so you're so you're doing that job and you like it. But what's going on? Well

12:55 One day I was out And I was running errands and I was thirsty. I'm tired of seeing the plastic wash up on the beaches. I want to get a non- single use bottle. To drink water. And so I thought, well, I'll just get an algine.

13:13 And then I can reuse it. So I go into the sporting goods store thinking it's Pretty simple. twenty bucks, I got a bottle and I'm back to work and

13:24 And There was some employees up front and I said, Hey Where are the water bottles? Right. And the guy takes me back and he shows me this wall that was Completely

13:35 Empty. There were only two bottles left on it. And I said, what happened here? And he said, Well, the owner's French and she just got back from France and her dad is a doctor and he says there's this stuff called

13:52 BPA. And we don't know what it is. It's probably not going to be anything. But as a precautionary measure, she decided that she wanted us to take all these bottles off the shelf. Okay, but the now genes I don't think at least today they're BPA free. Now they are, yes.

14:09 I see. Okay. I s I now I see. Now Gene stopped using BPA in two thousand eight. So At that time it's possible that they did have BPA and I remember this'cause my my first child was born two thousand nine and a B PA thing was was hardcore. Nobody you know, everything was like no BPA free, BPA free and I had a baby and I was like, Oh my God, I should should be really careful about this.

14:31 So okay, yeah. And I said, Well, who's going to refill this shelf? And he said, Nobody, there's nobody else doing water bottles. And it hit me right in the back of my head and it came right out my mouth. And I said, I will, I will do that. And

14:48 decided I was doing water bottles. Hang on, hang on. Okay. So right there in the store You get struck with this idea. A new idea for business, maybe, but but meantime you were still

15:00 Uh running a sign business, right? Right, yeah. So I get back to the sign company and I ask one of the employees, I said What do you know about water bottles? And she said, Oh, it's Sig. You gotta go with this company called SIG.

15:15 I thought. They were aluminum, yes. Aluminum. I remember those bottles, yeah. Yeah, and I was like, Oh, this is great. I don't have to do bottles I can just stick with signs. This is fantastic. And so I went to Patagonia and I bought one and it was expensive. It was like twenty bucks, you know, for a water bottle. That was a lot of money. Yeah. But they're good they're good bottles. I mean they right, I remember then they had like that little I think they still make them like that s small screw top or the you can like hook it on a

15:44 It looked like it was made for climbers, like you could hook it on a carabiner or something. Yeah, and it had real nice powder coating on it. It was really gritty and I really enjoyed it for about a week and I realized I couldn't put ice cubes in it. I couldn't put it in the freezer. Uh opening. Right, yeah. And they were aluminum, so you couldn't put'em in the freezer. Wait, why is that? I don't know that why can't you? It would expand and and crack. Like kinda like putting a popcorn in the right.

16:14 Right. And I was walking up the stairs and it fell off some books. And it dinted almost like catastrophically, it just looked terrible. 'Cause it was thin. It was like thinner a little bit. And

16:29 I I thought, Well that's too bad. You know, I just paid a lot of money for it. Now it doesn't look great. Couple days later, I'm filling it up and I look inside and some of that gold had flaked off. There was a gold liner. Inside the bottle. Yeah, and so I said, Okay, well, I guess I really am doing water bottles now. And

16:51 I called my brother Jeff, who just started working at REI and Bend. And I said, Hey Jeff, I need a water bottle. And he goes, Clean canteen. They just started. Good brand. Good product. Great product. And so he sends me a clean canteen. And

17:08 I it just wasn't ergonomically correct for my lip. And every time I'd take a sip, it'd dribble down my shirt. And was it a screw top? At that time, I mean now they've got all kinds of flip tops, but was it just a screw top? Like wide mouth bottle? It was, and it was big enough that I could put ice cubes in it.

17:25 Which was huge. You know, to take to the beach and have cold water on the way there was was awesome. And then I'd put it in the sand, I'd go surf and I'd come back and it'd be too hot to drink. And And then I came home and I'd hike a mountain and I'd get to the top and it'd be coo too cold to drink.

17:45 And so I thought My grandpa had an old school Coffee thermos, one of the big old heavy thermoses. And I thought, well, why can't we take that same technology And make it in

17:59 A normal sized water bottle. that we could actually drink water out of. Well let's talk about the thermos for a moment, because that that's been around for a long time, right? And so it's not like the technology didn't exist. Yeah, it was vacuum insulation. They came up, I can't remember exact year. I almost want to say it was like in the in the nineteen hundreds or even late eighteen hundreds, they came up with the vacuum insulation technology. Basically it's like

18:25 The between the inner wall and the outer wall The air has been completely taken out. The the part in between those two walls is where They've sucked out all the air. Yeah, yeah. It would provide a vacuum space that no

18:43 Temperature air molecules could transfer. Uh between the So anything on the inside, whatever temperature it is, it's going to remain that temperature because it doesn't have outside influences affecting it and it doesn't Release Like if you have hot liquids, the hot doesn't release through the vacuum.

19:02 Okay. So This experience has get get you thinking, like you get a cleanteen, again, it doesn't do the trick. It's not keeping your drink cold. It's not keeping your drink hot. It's not doing what the thermos did. But there is no therm you could buy a thermos, but the thermos was like a big thing and you know, you had like the top and You unscrew the top and then you pour the coffee in there and then you drink out of that and and so You're thinking Wait a minute, why isn't there a thermos but for water bottles?

19:31 Exactly. And I wanted metal on the inside. I knew I didn't want plastic. And so I figured and and I knew I didn't want aluminum. So I figured, well, why can't we just make'em out of double wall vacuum insulated stainless steel? All right. You have this itch that you want to scratch. So what so what like a uh uh

19:50 Are you still working in the science shop every day? Are you going in there every day at that point? Yeah, every day was was long days. Our printer was broken and so it would take us hours and hours to fix it and keep running it and It was just It was like I was completely overwhelmed with having to do bottles.

20:12 And We had a client who would go to the Canton Fair in China. And He would help. His customers find factories to build their products.

20:25 I really knew that I had to find a factory and it was probably going to be in China. So started doing Google. And found uh factory that said yes, we'll We'll do that. Come on over and

20:39 Check it out. Okay. But did you have a design in mind a or did you just think all I know is I want this to be Double walled. I don't know what

20:49 And I know I know I want it to be a wide enough mouth where I could put ice in it. Like unscrew it and put ice in it. Is that all you knew? It was, and I kinda still figure that somebody was doing it. Surely there must be somebody who's doing this. I can't be the first person who've thought of this. But I knew that I wasn't able to physic stop until I found that. So when you decided to pursue this.

21:14 What What was your first step?'Cause I would think if it was me, I would be Looking online, I would make contact, I'd get in touch with them, and then maybe I would fly out there. Yeah, I found one that said yes, we we will do that. That's what we do. Okay. So I sold a surfboard, I sold a mo ped, and I took off to Shanghai.

21:34 in may of two тазен сев And Found this. Factory. And

21:41 I get there. And I go in. And it's all plastic water bottles. And

21:47 They show me around, we go through the tea ceremony and everything. And I said, Well, where are the insulated and where's the stainless? And he said, Oh no, we don't do that. Nobody does that. I said, Well surely somebody. And he said no, there's nobody.

22:03 And I thought, Well, I've sold my surfboard, I've sold my moped, starting to run out of money. I guess I'll just fly back early. And so I start leaving the factory and this guy came up and he grabbed my arm. And he said, I have a cousin in Hanzhou that might be able to help you.

22:19 Why didn't you talk to him? And so he gave me two pieces of paper. One was to get to the train station, one was to get to Hanjo. And I show up in Honjo. And I realized I don't know anybody. I don't know where I am. I don't know who I'm looking for. I don't know what's going on here.

22:36 And I'm going down the The escalator. And luckily I hear Travis. Nice. Yeah.

22:43 And It her name was Natalie and she takes me to this office and I met her husband Michael. Who is Michael? Michael was the guy who was the cousin I met in Shanghai. Okay. Oh he was he was a Chinese man. He was. And Michael was his English name.

22:58 Correct. And he spoke enough English where he could help you. A little bit, right. And then the next day we get on the train and we're heading south again. And we show up at a actual water bottle factory where they're doing metal water bottles.

23:12 And we go in and Michael says, Hey, you know, Travis wants to do these vacuum insulated bottles. And the guy just laughed. He said, No, there's no way Nobody does that. We're not doing that. And so we spent three days.

23:26 going from factory to factory trying to find out if they do double wall vacuum insulated bottles. 'Cause a double wall means it's like You make a metal bottle and then you basically I guess that Insert it into another bottle and then

23:40 Connect them together or something? Yeah, it's a lot like if you think of a metal fence post, you have two different size fence posts, and one's inside of the other one, and then there's a little copper tube. that vacuums out the air. In between the two walls. And that requires, I guess, certain a certain technology on their on their

24:02 assembly line that presumably they didn't have because I'm s imagining if they could do it, they want to make money. They'd be like, Yeah, we could do this. Right. There was no market, nobody had asked him for it. So Finally on the very Second to last day.

24:17 We find a factory that had a vacuum and it wasn't very big. It was kind of the size of a motorcycle, which isn't huge for the vacuum world. And they were doing these little vacuum insulated Japanese milk. Bottles. So wait, like bottles of milk that you buy in the grocery store? Uh, it was more for like kids milk and maybe formula and and and bringing it. I see for their like lunches or something. Right, yeah, but they were real small. They were cute. They were you know, they were Japanese and so they were just beautiful little Containers.

24:50 And I said hey, you know, let's let's just make'em bigger and do Water bottles. And He laughed and

24:59 He looked at me and I wasn't laughing, I was serious and He said, Fine, we'll try it. When we come back in just a moment. How Travis finally gets some samples made and winds up walking into his local whole foods. at exactly the right moment.

25:16 Stay with us, I'm Guy Raj, and you're listening to how I built this. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So it's 2007 and Travis is in China where he's Finally found a factory that might be able to make him a vacuum insulated water bottle. But he and his local guide, Michael They still have a lot to figure out.

25:53 We didn't have the molds and we and the machine, the vacuum wasn't quite big enough to do it. And so Michael and I spent the next two weeks going from factory to factory and we'd buy two kilos of screws and we'd go buy metal plates and we'd go buy all these parts to build all these machines to build more parts and more machines. What were you sorry, what what did you need to build? Well, we had to modify the inside of the vacuum to hold

26:24 Bigger sized bottles. So not only do we have to get the Uh Molds made for the actual bottles. But we had to modify the vacuum to get the molds inside of it.

26:37 Why were you guys doing it? Why why w why why didn't the factory do it? They said we could rent time, but that was it. They weren't gonna do anything else to help us. They didn't believe in it. They didn't think it would work. And they they thought it was a rent time on our line and you know Try it out. Correct. Yeah. But you had to build the

26:55 adapters to make this work. How did you even know what to do? How did you know how to build that? They showed us, they said, you know, here's here's what we have. But it's not gonna work, and we're not willing to work with you to do this because this is a dumb idea. Nobody wants a vacuum insulated water bottle. So we're not putting forth any effort. That's how we came up with all the modifications and everything. And then I took off. I come back to Oahu. And

27:23 About six months later we got a call that the samples were ready. And Mm-hmm. What name do you want to put on it? Do you have a logo? Do you have a Name.

27:34 And we didn't. And so All hands on deck, all friends and family, what should we call this water bottom? And my brother came up with the name Hydra Flask. And I hated it. I thought it was a terrible idea. I didn't like the word flask.

27:51 But we had to have something printed on the bottles. So we went with it. And we got the first two samples. in November of two thousand seven. And and and how much sort of input did you have in the design? You just said

28:05 Was it just a I don't know. What it was a cylinder. with a wide opening that screwed on and off and it was double walled. Like did you give them any specs about colors, about powder coating, like w or did they just kinda make it? Uh based on what they thought you wanted.

28:21 Yeah, I hit. Drove all over the island buying as many bottles as I possibly could, and I bought calipers and I was measuring thicknesses of mouth sizes of bottles and which one was the most ergonomic size to drink out of and put a ice cube in and So I I drew it all out. And I'm kind of embarrassed to say, but About five years ago, somebody pointed out that I'd basically just drawn a scuba tank.

28:49 And it was the first ones just look like a scuba tank. And it's interesting, you you buy calipers. to measure the width of the bottle and the width of the the metal. Which is interesting because There is I mean, there's a like a lip feel, right? When you're putting a water bottle to your lips.

29:07 And we don't think about this consciously, but it's like when you when you have a beautiful wine glass. It's just very thin. Glasses. it just it's a better way to drink wine. And I think it's the same with a water bottle. Like if it's the right

29:21 Thickness, not too thin, not too thick, but Did you give the Factor in China, those specs or did they just kind of Make something and send it to you. Well both. I gave them the specs I you know

29:35 Minute made I liked better than Pepsi but Coke I like better than Sprite. Oh, you're talking about w these are plastic bottles, though. Yeah, I was measuring like w how big is my lip? How big is the drinking size out of each of these bottles? Budweiser bottles versus Corona bottles versus Milk jugs. And once I found what I really liked, I gave them the specs and then they

30:01 They made it the best that they could, but the very first samples the lip was real sharp and I didn't like it, but Everybody else liked it, and they were insulated. It worked. And it worked. Yeah, we got two. There was a red one and a blue one, eighteen and twenty one ounces. And

30:20 Went down to Waikiki beach. And put ice cubes in it. And started just handing them to people. And they would get out of the water from surfing and they would see the ice and they'd say, Wow, yes, this is This is something we would buy.

30:37 Did you uh and by the way, how roughly how much did it cost to get the samples done? It was about ten thousand. And and was there a commitment that you would have to make an an order after that? Well, we didn't know that at first. Yeah, I I I hadn't thought to ask about a minimum order quantity. I didn't.

30:55 I don't have an MBA, I don't know these things, you know, I didn't know these things. And we found out later that the first MOQ was three thousand. And how much would that cost you? About seventeen thousand dollars. Okay, so d did you have that cash?

31:10 No No, we ran out of money. And so I negotiated fifteen hundred instead. Okay, so How did you finance that?

31:21 Sold everything we had. We sold all of our clothes and furniture and that's what we're doing. And when you say we, it's this is you and your girlfriend Cindy, right? Correct. Correct. She's on board too. She's you guys are both selling all your stuff to to get the cash so you can pay for this order. Right. And then in March of two thousand eight we moved back to bend and moved in with my mom. Why not stay in Hawaii? It was expensive.

31:46 And Yeah. We needed to have You know, closer access to airports and And big trade shows and things.

31:55 And Bend has Kinda been. an outdoor Mecca for Oregon for quite a while and it was It was just kinda really starting to take off as as an outdoor place to be. Got it. Okay, and this is two thousand eight.

32:10 financial crisis about to be in full swing, right? This is the beginning of I think Bear Stearns happens and then you know, and it's gonna be Lehman Brothers and it's gonna go then this is all gonna go gonna all go crazy. But Um You go back to Ben and you And to save money you Did you say you move in with your mom?

32:28 Yeah, yeah. And my brother had just moved back in and my sister had just moved back in and had a baby and it was it was a full house. Wow. So he gets a bit and and the idea is you're gonna get this order of bottles and And then what? W wh where were you what were we gonna do at that point? That part I wasn't quite so sure about. I knew that we had a Portland Saturday market. The soldier.

32:52 You could go and sell your your wares. And so I figured, well, we'll start at the Portland Saturday market and see how it goes. Oh yeah, but when the shipment of twenty five hundred bottles arrived, were they like individually packaged in boxes? They were in boxes of twelve. Okay, and w and where did you store all of it?

33:11 My grandparents have a two car garage and my grandpa said we could have one of the two cars until the summer. And so we started out in Salem in in the garage. All right. So you've got they arrive in March of two thousand Uh eight.

33:27 And The idea was let's start selling this at the farmer's market. Let's set up a table. And by the way, I'm assuming you've a pretty kick ass sign,'cause you were in the sign business. Your sign is saying what it says hydrophlask water bottles, right? Am I right? Yeah, kinda. Like we we knew the difference between a table throw and a table cloth.

33:46 You know, and so we had a table throw that said Hydra Flask and we put it up on the rubber made table and we had a little pop up banner. We had our shirts that said Hydro Flask and hats that and stickers card company. Exactly. And it was hot. It was middle of I think it was July. And

34:09 People came and They'd say, What is this? And It's a water bottle. And they'd say, Why would I need a water bottle? Well,'cause it's not plastic, you can reuse it and it's insulated. And we put ice cubes inside of them.

34:24 And I'd put ice cubes in on Friday night and I'd write eight PM Friday. And then by Sunday, there's still ice cubes in it. And and people would Freak out. And the farmer's market was on Saturday or Sunday or It was on Saturdays and Sundays. Yeah. Saturday market's a bit of a misnomer. It's really on Sundays also. Right. So you would you would have a piece of tape on it and it would say Friday eight PM ice, and then on Sunday people like, Wait, you put the ice in on Friday and it's still this cold?

34:53 Yeah, and it was a hundred degrees outside. And they were like I love that idea. And How much were you selling the bottles for? We had We had a eighteen ounce that was nineteen ninety nine, and we had a twenty one ounce that was twenty four ninety nine.

35:08 Okay, and this is two thousand eight. It's the financial crisis is starting and and this is the summer of two thousand eight, so people are starting to get I mean, it's not not Yeah. And and again, like I'm thinking twenty bucks, twenty four bucks were a great deal, but but again, g I have to go back to two thousand eight. And from a two thousand eight perspective, that was

35:27 Probably kind of pricey for people. People were probably like, wait, what? 20 bucks for a bottle for a metal bottle? Yeah, it was it was tough because Oftentimes what they would do is they'd come by, they'd meet us first. And then they'd go shop the whole market, and then if they had any money left over, they would take a chance on us. So we're selling anywhere from twenty to fifty bottles a day.

35:53 At that point. for the two days. And then we'd leave the Saturday would head back to Bend and start doing what's called munchin' music at Drake Park, where they show a movie and have a bit of a Thursday afternoon get together.

36:10 And when you sold them And obviously people had seen how how you know was keeping the this ice water cold. Um did you offer any kind of warranty or return? Like what'd you say to people? Like how how did you convince them to to

36:25 for this water bottle because in two thousand eight The idea of having a a permanent water bottle was not like what it is now, where everyone's like, What do you mean? Like in my I can go in my pantry now, we have too many of these things. We've got hydro flasks and swell bottles and yetis and we got all we got the whole thing. We got every brand in there. Uh and I'm sure a lot of people listening are like, Oh yeah, I got a closet full of these things now. But then it wasn't like that. People just Bought a plastic bottle, drank it, and threw it away.

36:53 Or you know Like only only like really environmentally conscious people were doing this in two thousand eight. Right, which was a bit of a benefit being in Oregon because we do have a lot of environmentally friendly folks here in in the state, but we gave a a lifetime warranty. And said that if anything happens

37:16 We'll take care of it. We'll replace your bottle for you. And that helped a lot. So How are you financing the I mean, were you you know, you were selling them they were c how much their

37:27 Probably roughly what, five dollars a bottle? That's what it was costing you to manufacture them and and have them shipped? Yeah, yeah, about five twenty five, five fifty, yes. Okay, so so you were making Fifteen, you know. seventeen dollars per bottle, which is pretty good.

37:41 And that was enough money I have to imagine to To be able to finance the next order? Yeah, we just bootstrapped it all. And it was just you and Cindy? Yes.

37:52 And and then what happened was we were at the Munchin Music here in Bend. And a guy came up and he says, Hey, I'm worth I'm I work with the Ben Bulletin newspaper. Can we do an article on you? Yeah, sure, fine. So we were on the Front page of the business.

38:11 newspaper Ben Bulletin. And The following Thursday he A guy comes up and he says Hey, I'm a sales rep and I want to rep.

38:20 Hydra flask. Wow. Yeah, his name is Brent and he lives in Bend and he's a sales rep. And He wanted to rep.

38:30 The bottles in in sporting good stores throughout the North West. And what was he selling at the time? What was his other Main product. I think he had like skis and socks and uh other outdoor products. So he was like, Hey, I like this product. I wanna work with you. How did you even how did you know he wasn't a scammer?

38:50 I didn't. Yeah. Yeah, no, he I said, Okay, well what do you need? And he said, I need forty eight bottles. And at that point we were down to Less than a thousand. And I was like, I don't know, man. I don't I don't I'm not gonna just give you free bottles.

39:07 He wanted the bottles so he could go around and offer them as samples to retailers. Right. And I said, I just don't feel comfortable giving you forty eight. I said, I'll give you a twenty-four. And then you tell me how you did with the twenty-four. And he Sold.

39:22 twenty two of the twenty four doors and opened them up. He sold them to where? To like individual sporting stores? Sporting stores stores. Yeah. Just like around in in Oregon, mainly? Oregon, Idaho, Washington. Mm. And what were these like these are bomb and pop stores, presumably ma many of them, so they were probably ordering no more than a hundred of these bottles at a time. Yeah, we started out with our our minimum was twelve.

39:50 And then we bumped it up to the window. Yeah. Because they came in twelve bottle. Boxes. And as soon as we figured that okay, people are buying 12 and they're starting to reorder. We we bumped it up to twenty four per case. And

40:07 The accounts started getting bigger and bigger. And so we picked up a couple more sales reps on the East Coast and a couple in the Midwest. And pretty soon we started getting more sales reps and opening bigger and bigger accounts. And meantime You get into whole foods and then to Dick Sporting Goods. But that's not nationally. That's just in Oregon initially.

40:29 Yeah, when we got the first fifteen hundred bottles in And brought him from Salem over to Bend because my grandpa kicked us out of the garage. I thought, well We just got a whole foods in Bend. What if I just go check it out and see what they say? And so I walked into Whole Foods and I said, Hey, I'm here to sell water bottles.

40:49 And they sent me back to the lady who buys water and she said, Where's the water? I said, There's no water, it's just a bottle. And she's like, ah, that doesn't make any sense. I said, Well, it's a water bottle. She goes, Yeah, go talk to Evan. And so I go back and I There's a man lay on the floor and

41:07 And he is pulling water bottles out of the bottom shelf. And they were Sig. And they had BPA in'em. And I said, Hey, good news. I'm Travis from Hydro Flask. I got these water bottles to replace those.

41:20 He said, Is there BPA? I said, Nope, it's all metal. 'Okay, fine, how many do you have? And we had about six colors and he says Fine, I'll take a case of each. And so once we got the whole foods order just for that one bind location. I I basically used that all across town.

41:38 You would say, Hey, we're in Whole Foods. Yeah. And people are like, Oh, good enough for Whole Foods, good enough for us. And I think it's change now that Amazon owns it, but Whole foods Mart like stores had a lot of autonomy. to do that. Now you still see that like local and stuff, but now it's more regional. So you could actually sell into one whole foods. And so they s this one whole foods and bend starts to sell them. Yeah.

42:02 But How does how then As you as this product Gain some traction.

42:09 Right. Then what's the next step? I mean was there like a trade show that you could go to? Did you start to Cold call Or d was Brent cold call I mean he had connections, was he going to to bigger Retailers like what tell me a little bit about how you start to expand this

42:26 this out into other stores. Yeah, luckily Brent said, Hey, you gotta go to this thing called the outdoor retail show in Salt Lake City, and it's where all of the outdoor product companies come to Що вот с нею фезнь. We couldn't afford a actual proper booth. But we

42:46 Paid to get in. Yeah, and we Took a bunch of bamboo. And kinda laced and wrapped together a hut.

42:56 To put up our banners. And we were the only water bottle company there, and pretty soon the buyers started coming and seeing who's who's selling water bottles. And and then with that, we had other sales reps that would come to the booth and they'd say, Hey, I have this little tiny region in this area, or this massive region in this country. We're sales reps and we wanna sell the bottles. So this really was and again I can't I don't know for sure, but it was probably one of the first

43:26 brands that was doing this. Right. My question is for you, and this might be a sensitive question. Was your design patented? Did you have this protected? Well, what we did was we ended up getting design patents.

43:39 And so there's utility patents that are like for the insulation and we couldn't get that'cause that had already existed. You could not patent the vacuum technology. Correct. And so what we did was we design patented the design, the shapes and the sizes of the bottles and m made sure that it was on the packaging front and center. Patent.

44:03 pending or patented. And what I found was that a lot of people who maybe would have been competitors. saw patent it and they figured, oh, well, they've got the vacuum insulated market. We'll just leave them be. And it it helped for about six or eight months that

44:20 People just kind of left us alone and weren't really doing double wall vacuum insulated bottles until oh wait, it's just design patent. And then they started designing around it. Right,'cause I would imagine as as people saw how affected these were You've got a lot of companies out there that are like, Okay We could do this. You know, we can we could do this. It's this this technology, they don't own this technology.

44:44 Yeah, I think Clean Canteen was the first. And when I found out that they were doing vacuum insulation. I thought, Oh man, it's over. You know, we're we're out of business'cause They're selling the single wall so well, I'm sure they're gonna sell the double wall. Yeah, they used the different vacuum technique. They used one that was a little bit easier, a little bit less expensive, and it didn't

45:06 Didn't look as good and it ended up not working as well. So That that gave us a bit more of a runway to run with it. Okay, and so I have to imagine you've got no cash. Because

45:19 If the demand is high, then And you've got to constantly the money's gotta constantly be s recycled out. Uh you've no money, for example, for marketing. Yeah, luckily we had a friend who was a banker, and so she could help us uh find different banks that would give us a line of credit and credit cards. My grandparents took out a second mortgage on their house, and we borrowed and and sold everything that we could just to keep buying more bottles.

45:49 When we come back in just a moment. Money problems bring the business to the brink. Until Travis gets a visit from an unexpected investor. Stay with us, I'm Guy Roz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So it's 2009, and Travis is gearing up for his. Biggest shipment of water bottles yet.

46:28 Forty thousand of them. He spends all of November in China watching them being made, but When he gets home. He's in for a shock. I get home and the bottles show up, and we found that they had rusted and they were not insulated.

46:45 So I ended up going right back to the factory in in December of O nine. And Said hey. What happened? And we found the machine and we figured out what was wrong.

46:57 And I negotiated another forty thousand bottles. To replace the rusted forty thousand And a hundred and twenty day. payment after they arrived.

47:10 And so they said okay, yep, we'll do that. I come home. And In February We get a call that

47:19 We owed For the second forty thousand bottles. About two hundred fifty thousand dollars. And I said, No, no, I have a net one twenty after they land. And they said, nope, you owe us for another forty thousand.

47:33 And so I had a I had a kind of a list of people who had always said they wanted to help us if they could. And I called the list and and finally I found a local banker who was a big Hydro Flask fan and he really believed in it and He said, All right, yeah, I'll I'll lend you the two hundred and fifty to get the second forty thousand. Alright.

47:56 So you've got now you've got this good problem and a bad problem, which is there's uh you you have n very little access to cash. Um but you're selling a lot. And meantime, I think on a personal front things are kinda breaking down at the company. So let's start first of all

48:14 I think your relationship with Cindy who you started this business with is is is falling apart. Is that right? Yes. When it got too hard with the rust bottles she took off back to Hawaii. But it sounds like you were probably a On the way to splitting up anyway,'cause I can't imagine that the water bottles alone was the reason why she left. We had been on and off for quite a while. And and I think that just the

48:38 sheer overwhelm of the s situation was enough to Send her on her way. All right, I Travis, I wan I wanna acknowledge uh something for a moment here because I I know that your perspective during this time was that you felt Blindsided. And you you've talked about uh uh b before and in in other interviews about feeling betrayed not just by Cindy but by some of the other people that that were working in the business.

49:04 Um and and I can't independently verify all of this here, right? This isn't a documentary or or like an investigative report. But I am I'm curious about something, right?'Cause you're obviously smart you're a smart guy. You came up with this idea, you built it. he pushed it forward with a a ton of conviction. But when it came to judging the character of the people around you

49:25 Do you feel like that was an area where you struggled, or or or maybe you just didn't have the tools to do that? I don't really like HR. I'm not great. I trust people. I just I take people at face value. It always surprises me still to this day when people are dishonest or They have ulterior motives. And and and I'm probably not a real good judge of that. You're right, guy.

49:49 But you were lucky, I guess, with this guy Brent,'cause he he sounds like he'd he really helped you expand and sell. He was awesome, and he brought in other sales reps. Unfortunately what happened was he said that we were not going to be able to get into REI within a year. And I I knew that we probably could. And he was adamant that he wasn't even gonna try.

50:13 And so we had to let him go and replace him with a a larger firm, but he was he was instrumental in getting us up and going. Okay, so now you've got this complicated situation, which is you've broken up with Cindy, who who technically started this with you. Whether you feel like you did ninety percent of the work or not, doesn't matter. She still owns half the shares are w are part of the company. So

50:37 you guys are splitting apart, but you do have this potentially growing business here approaching, you know, twelve million dollars in sales by twenty eleven. And I guess uh you get approached, or both of you get approached, by somebody who wants to basically Buy you guys out, buy this company from you, and an investor named Jim Collis.

50:57 Tell me what the story is. Well, so after she left And I started hiring new employees, that second forty thousand bottles came in. And

51:09 We ran out of money. We had about Ten employees at that point. And Had

51:17 No more money in the bank on a on a Wednesday night. I remember And so I write this letter that says You know, dear employees, I'm sorry, but I'm I'm gonna have to close down the business.

51:30 And I was gonna read it to him Friday morning. Yeah. Friday morning I call everybody into the office to tell'em that we're closing down. And the phone rings and the the lady at the front desk says there's this guy here who wants to see you. And he says, Travis, I'm here to talk to you. And I said, I'm sorry, I'm not hiring and I'm I'm not even interested. Thank you.

51:52 And he says, Well I might want to invest. So I call off the meeting and I tell'em that yeah, you know, we need eighty thousand bottles. And he goes, Okay, how much money? I said, How about a million dollars? And he says

52:06 Okay, you know, he of course he looked at the books and he did some due diligence and things. It wasn't quite that easy. But he wrote us a check and I was able to buy more bottles. And that's when he came in as an investor and and started helping inside the office even with the books. And we hired a CFO at that point. And And They grew.

52:25 So this was in two thousand eleven. Right. And and so now you've got some capital behind you and I mean Look, the story.

52:34 at least from your perspective, ends not that long after. I mean you were going to exit in twenty twelve and uh sell your shares. And at that point You know, it's doing well. It's not what it is today. It's not a as huge of a brand today, but it I think you you're doing about twelve million in sales. Tell me when you start to think to yourself, I just want out. I'm done.

52:58 Yeah. I I got to a point where we got REI. We had Whole Foods. We were an international company. We were all over Europe and Asia and starting in on the South Pacific. And I Was a little tired of being on the road and living in hotels and in the factories, and I I felt like that season was just drawing to an end.

53:22 I was tired. And Then when The investor bought out my partner. Cindy. Right, yeah. It put him to fifty one percent and I was at forty nine and

53:34 he brought in the corporate playbook and said, Here's what we're going to do and this is what it's gonna look like. And I took a look at it and I said, No, I don't I I don't want to do that. So negotiated my way out.

53:47 Okay. twenty twelve. is when you're out. And so It's it's growing, there's potential there. By this point there's already competitors, there's lots of competitors in twenty twelve.

54:01 But Hydro Flask is one of the brands out there. One of the first, if not the first, double walled. Insulated. Water bottle. I'm curious.

54:11 And again, I understand why you would want to be out. It's just it's a grind. Um, but a lot of people would also stay. They would say, Okay, I got this investor Now we can scale. And maybe I'm not really a CEO type. Maybe I'm more of a creative

54:26 visionary type and I need a professional operations guy, I need a professional people Focus on branding, you know, or S something like that. And this happens a lot. So I'm curious if if any of those ever crossed your mind.

54:43 I felt like I'd accomplished everything that I'd really set out to accomplish. And I didn't want to continue down the path of The corporate route. My original goal was to sell 2500 bottles.

54:58 You know, I wasn't Looking to To retire and and and Move out into a castle. And

55:07 I remember I woke up with just a whole weight. That had lifted from my body. And I realized, oh wait. You're not the hydroflast guy anymore.

55:18 And that I did. I I separated from them and Um They changed the quality, they changed the price, they've changed some of the manufacturing techniques. I I don't even really drink out of the bottles anymore. After some of their Add campaigns and things I I've

55:36 separated myself even further with them. So eventually they Hydroflask was acquired by Helen of Troy, which is a um you know, they own a bunch of different brands. Um for over two hundred million dollars. That was in twenty sixteen. Um and I think uh they still own it.

55:54 Um, and it's an international brand and And you I think f you you sort of started a n a different business of consulting business, right, for some time. Are you still are you still doing that, like helping Small businesses get into into manufacturing and and things like that.

56:12 I do. I help uh do advising for companies that are looking for building their products in factories in the States or in China, but I'm also looking to do another bottle company as well. Well what kind of Yeah, tell me a little bit more w but w how you would improve on it,'cause now it seems like this is a pretty

56:32 Yeah, it's pretty competitive space, right? There's some there's some heavy hitters in the in the bottle business and How do you differentiate something and make it better and make it competitive. I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. It's a lot like when I saw the sign

56:50 saying, hey, I have a banner company, I have a sign company, and I I thought, huh, I bet I could do that better. And Basically w I I I found a way to print on the entire bottle.

57:02 And so There it's Typically the best way to embellish a bottle right now is with the laser engraver. And we started doing that early two thousand nine. We started laser engraving on bottles. And it was great. It was cool technology back in two thousand nine. But This is twenty twenty five. We're going into twenty twenty six and it's time that somebody steps up and does something a little bit different.

57:27 When you think about, you know, whether you have criticisms and and chall issues with what Hydro Flask is today, You can still look at that product wherever you go around the world and say, I invented this. I created this brand. As as wild as the story is, as implausible as it is, as weird as it is at times. Like

57:49 You still can say that, and that's pretty amazing and Uh that's gonna be Yeah. m very likely a big part of your story, right? When your when your time uh comes to an end.

58:02 But when you think about this thing that you built and and You know. What what you were able to build out of it. How much of of of of that do you attribute to luck? And how much do you think has to do with just the grind you put in and and the incredible

58:17 hard work and you know what seemed like endless hours. I think that it was a lot of hard work. I think the luck comes in that Mm. Had it

58:29 Happened yet. And the world was ready for it. People were ready to start carrying water bottles with them everywhere they went. And and so as far as luck goes, I think that that It was maybe where the luck was, but

58:44 I I al always take the good luck when I can get it. It's just Sometimes I've had to really look for that luck. That's Travis Rossback, co-founder of Hydra Flask. By the way, Hydroflask is now the official sponsor of the US national snowboard team. It's actually only the second time they've partnered with a major sports program. They also sponsor the US surfing team, which kinda makes sense, right? Snow and surf, cold and warm.

59:13 Same bottle. Same idea. Heat the outside. Outside. Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app so you never miss a new episode of the show, and as always, it's free. And if you're interested in insights, ideas, and lessons from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs, sign up for my newsletter at guyros.com or on Substack.

59:37 This episode was produced by Chris Massini with music composed by Ramtina Rablui. It was edited by Neva Grant with research help from Claire Murishima. Our audio engineer was Jimmy Keeley. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Casey Herman, JC Howard, Sam Paulson, Catherine Seifer, Carrie Thompson, Andrea Bruce, Ramel Wood, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Roz, and you've been listening to how I built this and don't stop the podcast just yet.

1:00:04 Биказ райна You're about to hear an amazing small business story that you don't want to miss. This segment is presented by American Express. With a business platinum membership, the best just got even better.

1:00:20 So a few years ago, on a bright sunny day, Bree Van Luen was on vacation with her husband and kids, celebrating a special milestone. My little girl who was turning one had a cake smash on the beach in Seaside, Florida. But right after Brie puts some sunscreen on her daughter, The party was cut short. In real time on a video, you can see her having a terrible reaction to the sunscreen. So she got welts and blisters.

1:00:44 She was had a runny nose, itchy watery eyes. This had never happened before. But this brand of sunscreen was new to her. And it turned out that this sunscreen had an ingredient in it called butyl optical salicylate. It's a chemical added to some commercial sunscreens to help boost sun protection. And after testing dozens of other brands and consulting an allergist,

1:01:07 Bree realized that her child's skin was sensitive to this specific chemical. And it's a problem for a lot of children. There are sunscreens Brie could have used without that chemical, like zinc oxide. You know, the thick, pasty white stuff that you can't really rub in? Her kids were not having any of it. The older your child gets, the more they're like, oh don't put that on, I'll look white, don't put that on me. And the truth is I wouldn't put white cakey sunscreen on myself and expect to go out and do my day. And yet I was expecting my little girl to go out and go to school and walk out the door looking like ridiculous.

1:01:45 The alternative was to skip sunscreen altogether, but that was not an option. Melanoma runs in my family on both sides, my mom's side and my dad's side. I have aunts and uncles and cousins. It's everywhere in my gene pool. So Brie decided to take matters into her own hands. She set out to make a mineral-based sunscreen that didn't leave a ghostly white film. And that didn't include the chemical that affected her daughter either. I think the best inventor is desperation, and I was a desperate mom that needed something. She found a chemist to prototype formulas and it took them weeks to create each new batch.

1:02:22 And then they'd send it off to an independent facility for testing. We failed our SPF test over and over and over again. Every round took months. And at some point I realized oh This is why companies do this. This is why companies compromise and they put these ingredients in. One is to save money, and two is to save formulation time. But Bree persevered and finally, after four years of trial and error,

1:02:50 she hit on the right formula. So in 2024, she launched her new brand The Public. Daily Shade Sunscreen. Standing in The manufacturing lab, watching it be produced was one of the coolest moments of my entire life when I thought if this is what being an entrepreneur is, if this is what being an inventor is, sign me up because I've never had a feeling like this in my entire life.

1:03:14 And then to see my children recognize my mom made this for me. Fat it. Today, putting on daily shade sunscreen is an important part of the morning routine in Bree's household. It's almost funny at this point because my kids will come in the kitchen, did you brush your teeth? Now, did you find the sunscreen? Yes!

1:03:32 And after years of hard work. Bray did more than create a product for her children. She gave them a role model. When I asked my daughters What do you picture yourself doing when you grow up?

1:03:44 Their answer is I want to own my own company and change the world. That's Brie Van Luen of Daily Shade Sunscreen. And that's our small business spotlight presented by American Express. To build a business like no other? You need a card like no other.

1:03:59 There's nothing like business platinum.

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