#875: The Random Show — Tim and Kevin Talk Retreats, Mortality, AI Predictions, Supplements, Rock Climbing at (Almost) 50, and Not Waiting for “Someday”

0:00 Optimal minimal. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. And then also the personal question. Now it is seen it kinda. My cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal and the scale. Sure

0:24 Tim Tim Good. Good to see you. And let's figure out which one. There we go. Cheers. Cheers. All right. You know, I know the cool kids are down on Alcohol, but every once in a while. I think there's a place for it.

0:37 There's a time and place. And This is the time. I think this is the time and the place and I think. Paying a tax for it the next day is a feature, not a bug. Are you getting taxed harder? Oh, of course. Yeah, every old bastard that's gender neutral gets taxed as you can process ethanol.

0:55 Less and less well over time. But I'm cool with it. I don't have that much, but Today has been Hectic?

1:02 Yeah. Yeah, take a little edge off take a little edge off. And uh people may not like the sound of that. A little antiquated maybe for all the cool ketamine kids. No offense. Put that shit on me. I try it one time and I get freaking bastard. You fuck a goat once and then they call me the goat fucker. You can't get around it. I still stand by that thing.

1:28 When you're doing it. In a supervised setting. By a medical profession. Here we go. No, I'm telling you it's you've done it. Of course I have. Okay, so there we go. Well, yeah, because I wanted to be able to speak to you. I saw you at a party one time and you were just like. That's not true. That's not true. Still have all my nostrils intact. No ketamine cramps. You know I don't know what that is.

1:49 Zo. That's when you use too much. Way, way, way, way too much. Oh, yeah. Yeah, your bladder can get a little grumpy or a lot grumpy. Yeah. As the case might be. Yeah. You know, I'm good. Kevin Random show number. Three thousand four hundred and seventy nine. Yeah. You know what's crazy, dude, is I looked up a random show the other day and

2:10 You had a bit of hair. Like we way back in the day. Way back. Yeah. We were babies. I know. So much shit has happened. I know. The only constant I think is like maybe like toaster. He's barely alive. I know, seriously. Poster was a tiny tiny little pup. Yeah.

2:33 Oh my god. On your couch in San Francisco way, way way back in the day. Thousand fifteen. And I'll tell a quick little story. A week ago I get this call. Derry calls me and she's like, You got to get over the house. Like toaster is shaking violently. And he's fifteen. He like running into walls and shit. Like, you know, he's getting up there and he's

2:53 Legs are collapsing so he can't stand up and he couldn't stand up. And he's shaking violently and I'm like Just flying over there. I throw'em in my car. He's on my lap.

3:03 Driving to get to this emergency vet as fast as possible. And he just Brace shit all over me. Like literally I heard it like I felt the stomach be like Girl, girl glug, girl. Here we go. And then like ten seconds later, I'm not even talking like, oh, like oh, he had a little shit. Like, no, no, no, no. Like shotgun against the car door, like the whole thing. And it's all down my pants. I know, but you know what's funny, dude? It's like

3:31 I rushed him in and long story short, he's okay now. What was it? He had gone into the vet the day prior. And he was so nervous. that he stood for he had to be there for like a multi hour blood draw'cause we're he was having some other issues. And he stood for like six hours straight.

3:47 That's too long for an old dog. He can only stand for like ten minutes. Like max. And so he had just over taxed himself and got like There's a syndrome that they can get when they're like super stressed out and all so little Molly's at it, or big Molly, she's on the floor right here. He's sleeping. Molly's twelve. It's crazy.

4:05 But long story short, he's okay, but I thought to myself It's so weird because I when I walked in there And there was like shit and like I l I'm literally I'm in tears'cause I think I'm about to have to put down my dog. Yeah, of course. And I just thought

4:18 It's okay. I'll do this any day for this dude. Yeah. You like when you care about your animals that much. None of that matters. Yeah. Like you would do anything for them. You know, and it's just like just that love. It's so crazy how much you love these little beasts. Like it's insane, dude. Yeah.

4:35 It's like a kid. It's like a kid. Yeah. It's um Wild to think about if you really sit down and think about it. Some of these super common daily Experiences like Communing with a dog. Or pointing and having a dog recognize that you're pointing, for instance.

4:53 That's really rare. in the animal kingdom, that recognition of pointing as just one example. But how unusual it is that we have this And yes, we have cats. I grew up with four cats and two dogs. I get it. But In particular dogs as like companions.

5:10 Co hunters, et cetera. The fact that we have evolved, co evolved in a sense. And Sort of co domesticated. Yeah. Also Right. It's not necessarily one way. Read The Botany of Desire by Michael Pollan for more on that.

5:24 It is incredible. Yeah. The fact that we have like We're totally calm having this. Sixty plus pound B with giant fangs on the floor. Is

5:35 Nuts. Yeah, I mean I'm sure you've seen that those Instagram posts where it's like Where I was and where I am now today. And like they show like the wild like wolf like out in the countryside, like eating a rabbit. And then they show like a poodle in a tutu outfit and shit, like all like dying. The the meme is I'm gonna go grab some scraps from those weird monkeys. What's the worst that could happen? And then it's like Ten thousand years later, you're a Chihuahua with a bonnet on. What else is going on, Kevin? I got a couple of things on my list, but we got there's a lot to talk about. There's a lot to talk about. First I'll say that

6:05 Lately life has been lifing me. It's been doing all the things. We lost a a dear colleague. Oh, Malik. Oh yeah. Very uh notorious like Amazing.

6:18 Early. Tech. Just create a brilliant writer. Brilliant thinker. Very sweet guy. Nicest.

6:26 Nice. And um we lost him within the last week. Yeah. So he passed away. So that was tough. That was Really tough. I found out when I was at a retreat. I went to Five day silent meditation retreat, which is great. But bummer to hear that. But I mean this is the thing that I realized the other day I was Thinking about

6:43 You know, toaster and ohm and Other stuff I have going on and my mom getting older and following and all these things and In some sense It's unavoidable, number one. And number two I kinda wouldn't have it any other way.

6:56 It's what makes life interesting. When ohm past. You mean death? Well just the everything, the chaos of it all. If you can just Take a step back and be like well Or I could just be sitting there living a really boring life and nothing could be happening.

7:11 Like when Om passed. Вой фел вас севір с сорон, бо і реаліз. That that gap. is just love at the end of the day. Because I wouldn't have it.

7:24 Unless I love this man so much, like I cared for this person so much. How lucky am I to have crossed paths with this person and you were tied in through True Ventures, obviously, and prior to Yeah. But like anyone in general that you lose that you love, you know? I mean, when I lost my dad, like that is just a gaping hole. Of love manifested through sorrow and sadness. And once you realize that, it's like wow, I had This great father that did all these amazing things with me.

7:53 And you can kind of convert that or just be Okay with it. Not that you need to change that feeling. Right. Recognize that it's a consequence of the love. It's a consequence of the love, the deep love. Yeah, you know, I um Heard about his passing and I wanna give.

8:09 Credit where credit is due for a few things. Matt Mullenweg. Mutual friend. He was incredibly close to um. And I'm really grateful to Matt for a few things. One, I mean many things. I could give a long list, but There are a few. One is he organized a trip. To Antarctica. I've never been to Antarctica.

8:27 Artera hadn't. And on that trip were just a handful of people, including Um. So I got to spend quality time. I mean, trust me, when you're in Antarctica, you are indoors most of the time. Yeah. What that means is you're either trying to sleep in your tent, but it's gonna be during the summer, so it's like a spotlight in your face twenty four hours a day. Or you're in one of these other structures where you're probably like having wine and junk food, let's be honest. And there's a lot of talking. So we got to hang out and Ohm was also an avid photographer. And so we got to like go

8:58 to this nearby Empire Penguin Colony, which was a once in a lifetime experience. And you just sit and talk. And If there were gonna be any small talk, which there wasn't going to be with Ohm, or me really for that matter. It all falls away after the first half day. Right. And then everybody's kinda like psychologically naked.

9:19 So I really Wanna thank Matt for that. opportunity to bond with him. And I'd spent a lot of time with him, but it was always in these little Bits and pieces. Yeah. Several days straight where you're basically like locked in together. Yeah.

9:33 And separately. Matt introduced me to this short blog post by someone who typically writes very long blog posts, Tim Urban called The tail end. I don't know if I ever sent this to you. People should note by Way But Why. Yeah, Way But Why. Yeah. Fantastic blog. And the tail end makes the point among

9:53 many others that by the time you I think it's graduate from high school. So let's assume you're headed off to college. away from your parents. You've spent something like ninety, ninety five percent. of the total hours you will ever spend with your parents by the time you graduate from high school. And when you start to visualize that, and Tim Urban's really good at laying it out visually. It can provoke some really profound changes for me. I mean, just reading that short blog post sent to me by Matt. ended up leading to taking my family on these family trips as like

10:25 Awkward and uncomfortable that was the points,'cause my family doesn't really A moat much? Mm. So you stick us together in the way that I was together with home and it's it can be super uncomfortable. But

10:38 Making the effort, right? At least feeling like look. This runway is not infinite. Yeah. And it's like let me just make the effort. And I'm glad I did because we got to a point where it's like with my Dad's mobility is really compromised and needs a wheelchair now for a lot. And I I just saw him a few days ago and it was great to see him, dude. Yeah. It was so great to see him. He's so kind. Yeah. He's Kevin, like so happy. And you know, he's keen and it was just like so sweet to see him, man. I hadn't seen him for like years. Long time. It'd been like seven years or something. Yeah. Something like that. And

11:10 I'm glad I took those trips because Before you know it. You can't do it anymore. And it makes me think of you mentioned meditation, this really good short I'll call it a meditation for simplicity, but Like an audiobook chapter by Sam Harris called The Last Time. I think it's called The Last Time.

11:28 And He reflects on These various experiences that at the time you don't recognize are the last time for something. Right. So he he went skiing, he went skiing, he went skiing, and there was a time when he stopped, but he didn't realize that that was gonna be the last time. Right. And You just fucking don't know. Do you ever try and like

11:51 I think about this dude and then I try and do it one more time. Yeah, that's how I always end up injured. Dude I went to the bouncing house with my kids. And like I'm forty nine, you know? And I was like I'm gonna fucking do a flip right now. And and and like literally people were like, don't do it. Don't like like call me off, you know? And I did it and I stuck it. Yeah, I felt good. You're good on a trampoline. My last time. You might be your last time. You are good on a trampoline. This is so weird, man. Dude, I kid you not, I had a dream last night.

12:19 Of the two of us. Going to House of Air. At Chrissy Field in San Francisco and you were doing like front flips off your knees, but you dropped your hat and then you like kicked the trampoline to bounce it back up to your head. I was like what you know I sent you that video of me dropping my hat and kicking it back to my head. Yeah. Yeah. So it just made its way into the dream. And I was just like, What? I literally had that in my dreams last night. That's wild. And I have the access chaps on like I normally do when you're Yeah, yeah, the S tap song, which like depending on your angle can be kinda awkward. Yeah, exactly. Cause you like doing the straddle flip. You like doing the straddle flip.

12:55 So it's a little awkward. I've heard about these dreams before. I always text them to Kevin I'm like I was thinking I was thinking of you last night. The chaps were back. Yeah. Longtime listeners know how important privacy is to me. In fact, my friends would call me Paranoid, or they used to call me paranoid, and now they think I was just depression in a sense. These days, you may have noticed, it is a lot harder.

13:22 to protect privacy. Anyone can find your information with a quick search. It's shockingly easy. And I've had friends and paid people to red team me to try to find my info. And uh What you'll notice is that shadowy data brokers quietly collect and trade your home address, phone, family members, and more. It's a mess. You have to have a plan for defense. And you can fight back with incogni. That's I N C O G N I. Incogni automatically removes your information across four hundred and twenty plus data brokers with one thousand plus additional sites covered in their unlimited plan, and they keep it scrubbed automatically. Deloitte has independently verified the headline numbers. In other words, two hundred and forty five million plus removal requests. And the company adheres to strict security standards with an A plus rating from the Better Business Bureau. And with their unlimited plan.

14:15 If you find your info on a site they don't monitor, send them the link and their privacy team will handle it. Go to incogni.com slash Tim, I-N-C-O-G-N-I.com slash Tim and use code Tim at checkout to get sixty percent off of an annual plan. One more time, incogni.com slash. Tim. Yeah. What do you got, man? I mean people should check out My hands are too sweaty because I'm thinking about it.

14:41 Yeah, in the chaps. Ha ha ha. Um perfect audio. Well the retreat was fantastic. I spent five days Going really deep on my Koan.

14:54 Doing a lot of work on it. Oh no. Which You can listen to Henry Shipman on your podcast if people are interested about what Zen is all about, like real true traditional Zen with Koans and You probably heard the ha the sound of one hand clapping, that actually is a one of five hundred plus cohans.

15:10 Yeah, it was fantastic. I had a couple of little micro insights, which was good. And I was kind of rush through to the Zen Master to explain them and try and get some clarity on them, which is great. How do you know that you're having a micro insight? So it's not like my balls are shafing in this. Position. It's something else. Yes. But close.

15:30 I essentially was sitting in Yeah, Henry. one of the Zen masters that you've had on the show, dear friend of ours was there and then his Roshi from Japan was there. So it's very special. And then it comes every two years. What's his name? Yamada R Yamada Roshi. Yeah. So Basically I was kinda

15:47 Pold Henry aside, you're not supposed to not talk, but I was like He's like, Yeah, how's it going like this and that? And I was like Well had this thing happen. Like what do you think about this? And he's like You got it.

15:58 Come with me right now. He like got me right in front. There's a line to see the Roshi to go have Your private interview where you go and like check your practice with them. So it's behind closed doors, you go in, you sit down with the Roshi, you typically get between

16:12 Two and ten minutes to sit down and talk about Your progress on your practice. And you do that like once every day and a half when you're out there. Mm-hmm and This was enough to where Henry was like, You should go talk to him right away. Skip the line. TSA pre check. Like go through the pre check. And it was beautiful. It was a micro little thing. I can share it if you're curious. Yeah, of course I'm curious. Yeah, so

16:35 There was this sense I'm getting bored of hearing myself talk. That's why I'm here. Talk to you. So I'm sitting here staring against the wall because in Zen you stare against the wall with your eyes open. You're just hanging about three quarters down, kinda just glancing on. I'm working on my clone, and for people that don't know how you do that, is essentially On the out breath you just like slowly internally Say your call. It's almost like a mantra in some sense, but a little bit more Yeah, it's like a question you're kind of asking yourself slowly that doesn't make sense and eventually it pops. But

17:04 What happened is I had about two seconds of this sense that. There was And this is gonna be hard to explain because it's not from the world of thought, which are is already hard to explain. It's like a sneeze. In the perennium.

17:20 No. No. I had a close. I had a sense of nothing lacking. Mm. That sounds nice. Nothing needed to be added and nothing even possibly could be added and nothing possibly could be taken away. Because everything

17:37 At that moment Was four. In the way that it should be. But what was interesting about it is

17:45 It wasn't an emotion. It was just like a steady state of being. So it wasn't like oh I feel free right now. No, none of that. It was just like Oh.

17:56 Everything is here. Perfectly present. And It was just Wild!

18:04 Wild in what sense? In the in the Felt sense of that. Experience or Why is it in the sense that Wild in the I just drank too much tequila after not having much tequila, so I haven't had any tequila, but uh in the sense that

18:21 We often time so often like go outside. Or inside. into our brain to try and find Something. Figure something out.

18:31 an emotional state that's either bothering you or feels good or feels bad or something else. And then just to know that everything And I don't mean like objects. Like everything was one unit of Nothing lacking.

18:45 And it was just A micro sense of kind of like Oh, there's Actually nothing to do. Because everything's already here.

18:54 They talk about this in Zen a bit where You already have everything that you need. So It's just they call it the removal of the veil. It's an expansive awareness that you get from The deep

19:07 Continued practice over years and decades. But it was already there all along. Can I give a shameless plug? Yeah, let's hear it. Guided single path. Meditation app.

19:23 Which is guided by Henry Shuchman, you mentioned. And it's the Progressive development of skills on a single path, which I really like, as opposed to just what is the meditation du jour with no coherence. And A few of my favorite

19:41 Meditations. I have a lot. of different sessions bookmarked. I've done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. And by the way, for people who are like, oh these guys are just showing their bags. I do think it can be a good business, but this is Sort of a ideologically filosofical

19:57 An investment of time and money. Right. It's like the reason we invested in um the dog aging study with Rapomyases. Exactly. University of Washington, it's like this needs to exist. It's good for the world. Let's try it. So sure, we've got some chips on the table, but this is mostly because we believe in it. And a few of my favorites, if people ever try it. Whole earth is medicine is one. That's another one is this too is me, which makes me think about what you're saying. Yes. So this too is me. Is

20:30 Meditation led by Henry. Which This is gonna sound maybe esoteric, but it's not. When you recognize that All of the things you experience are mediated by your mind. Right. And therefore, like when you hear something.

20:47 When you feel something, when you're interrupted by something. Et cetera, et cetera. Anything you can possibly imagine experiencing. is also you because ultimately It is entirely mediated. by your mind. Let's just use that instead of brain.

21:03 And It's incredibly at least for me, and I'm not comparing it to your experience, because I think it's probably characteristically different. is incredibly Relaxing.

21:14 to let go even just for a moment because my brand is like the ultimate Dog. Chasing a squirrel kind of brain, right? Like I'm always looking for something to fix, something to improve, what I need to do, what is happening next week. And meditation is You are the squirrel. I am the squirrel. Right. It can be excruciately painful. Yeah. Like meditation can be hundred percent. That's a very common thing. People are like super can't do this. But when Henry gives you permission to include all of that.

21:45 As you I know this might sound Very bizarre. It allows you to kinda drop this burden that you didn't Realize you were carrying. So in any case, you don't have to do a week long meditation retreat.

21:58 If you're just doing ten minutes twice a day, and I do think there's some alchemy to twice a day. I don't know why exactly I have some theories around. Vegas nerve stimulation and stuff. But You get a lot out of it. In any case, I didn't mean to interrupt your story. No, I I think there's two things that I love that Henry says quite often when he starts some of these meditations, which is

22:19 Take everything that you came in the door with, like all of the thoughts, worries, emotions, things. And leave it at the door. Just for now. You can come back to it in twenty minutes. But just for now, the permission to set those things down.

22:33 For yourself. Just for now. It's such a beautiful thing. And then like the little instructions where he's like Drop your jaw an eighth of an inch.

22:41 And I'm like, Whoa I didn't even realise I was like I was claiming. Can I tell you something crazy about that? Yeah. All right. So I got fitted for a mandibular device, which is a fancy way of saying. A double decker mouthpiece. Yeah. That Is an easier

22:58 Approach. Sleep apnea or snoring. So I don't snore a ton, but every once in a while I do. Drives my lady uh insane, understandably.

23:09 And if you take The jaw. And drop it down. And it is an inch. And forward an eighth of an inch, you open your airway.

23:18 Mm-hmm. And I was thinking about that because Henry will often say, as you're alluding to, like, drop your jaw And leave it forward as if it's resting on a small pillow ever so slightly. Yeah. And it increases your airflow. I mean these ancients hit on some stuff by trial and error. that really just works. It's like yeah, if you want to have better respiration while you're meditating

23:44 And better alignment and blah blah blah blah blah. Just do it. energy describing and I will say his dulcet British tones. Yeah. If you just want a relaxing voice. Yeah. That will help you with chilling the fuck out when your monkey mind is

24:00 Ricocheting inside your skull. Try Henry out. Like you can find free stuff everywhere. I've had him on the podcast a bunch, as well as Meditation Mondays for a while. Which were these very short episodes of Guided Meditations. In any case. You know, I've been so

24:15 It's the right word. I mean overjoyed is sounds too dramatic, but I'll just say happy for you to watch your path with meditation.'Cause it seems like you Yeah, so much nourishment and grounding from it. And no offense.

24:29 You're kind of a spaz. You're kind of a spaz. Like you get excited about shit and then you drop stuff that is very well exemplified. And like, Tim, you gotta buy this stock. And then you never tell me when you sell, and I'm like, Oh fuck, I'm fucked. Um Yeah. You should have held. It's fine. No but anyway. Literally Tim gives me this tip and I'm like, all right, I'm in. And then like a day and a half later, I'm down like I know that's why you gotta wait. The the point of the story is I thought uh this meditation thing. Just like every

25:04 Nine months, you're like, I'm moving to Android. And then I'm like, Yeah, let me start the timer for two weeks before you come back to iPhone. I'm like, yeah, this meditation thing, yeah, sure. We'll see. I give it two weeks and you've stuck with it. And more than five years now. Yeah, it's really made me happy as your friend to see something that gives you that

25:28 Mm. Consistency. That's it. There's nothing more to add. I've been really Not sure of the right way to put it. I've just been very reassured.

25:37 Yeah. By you having that constant in your life. One of the things I'm I'm curious about speaking up constants and kind of like how Things change since we've known each other and you had hair and all the other shit. My hair wasn't great. Exactly. The question I'm curious about is I've been thinking a lot lately as I I kinda march towards fifty.

26:01 What are the things that I've always said that I wanna do Then I'm just like, you know, I've got a thousand bookmarks on Instagram, like all these Japanese woodworking things and like always woodworking. Always woodworking. You know, does have bad my uh he's speaking of the monkey mind and bouncing around. I literally have For some reason the algorithm has now given me Like those motherfucking boats inside of bottles? Like people making the boats in the bottles. I'm like, Am I gonna be a boat in the bottle guy? Like I don't know, maybe.

26:29 I realize now I think the next couple of decades like I wanna stop bullshitting myself and stop saying like Hey one day. One day I'll get in the Japanese woodworking, one day I'll do this

26:40 And really start doing some things. Yeah. You've been really good because you like you Archery. Hunting, like the stuff that you've gotten into, you've gone deep on in the last few years. Are there any things that are on your kind of bucket list of things where you say One day

26:55 You know, you're busy with your podcast and all the other shit, you got podcasts. Shoot me in the head. It's it's Fine and it's fun most of the time, but it's so crowded, and it's like, Man, if twenty other people are trying to do the same job, I don't want to do this job. It is wild how many new podcasters there are out there. Also optimizing every little freaking thing. All the thumbnails what you need to know before your crypto crashes next week now. And I'm like, Oh god. I just don't want to play that game. And For me, I would say the most top of mind is rock climbing. Actually I just did some outdoor rock climbing a couple days ago. And

27:34 I love rock climbing. I was always for at least the last fifteen years limited by my right elbow, which I had surgically repaired, so it's ready to go. And I wanna do some multi pitch stuff in US M. Let's go. Yeah. So I don't know if I want to say this.

27:51 Ha. Alright, that's a good start. He was a big rock climber. Yeah, he's perfectly to Yosemite. I'm sure we should go.

28:02 Okay. He's like I'm sure there's good. Apparently he's amazing. So And I'm like, dude, I can't go do multi pitch with you at Yosemite and he's like, ah just come out, we'll have fun, blah, blah, blah. No, that's how you end up fucked. Yes. Exactly. I did multi pitch when I was like Twenty four. And it was like Three pitches.

28:22 Like I didn't I didn't do Yosemite. Yeah, no, that's a commitment. Yeah. So the idea of having something like that Two strive for Having some type of physical goal like that I for me is very helpful because Just

28:38 Not dying, like training to not die sooner than is necessary is not sufficient for me. I'm just like that's such a Depressing. Uninvigorating goal. I'd much rather have something That

28:54 You know, has a deadline, right? It's like all right, you need to be able to do X in the case of the archery, it's like the Lancaster Classic. Here's the date. You need to do this type of training and this type of volume with this type of deliberate practice. Yeah. In order to be prepared to train and then compete. Right? Okay. Similarly for something like a multi pitch, it's like okay.

29:15 You can break that down and I just enjoy doing that stuff. Dude, so let me ask you a question. The number two, I don't know if you saw this on my Number two story I had was this guy Michael Eckhart. You know? No, no idea. Oh my God. Okay, so Huberman and Rogan and all these guys they've they've talked about him publicly about this guy.

29:34 He has won multiple pull up World championships. Okay. And dude, when you watch him do a pull up, he's kinda one of those guys that can bring the bar all the way down. Yeah, like you know the like the the where like yeah you can walk with your feet and shit. All the calisthenics. But he has A series of videos that teach you how to do finger strength. Training. And

29:57 I bought his course, and I'm doing this right now. All this thing'cause but you got me into that the wooden device. The nug. The nug. So dude, you gotta watch his videos. They're amazing. Seriously like Joe's really into him. Like this guy is my name is Michael Eckhart. You can find him on Instagram. And it's all about grip strength, pull ups.

30:17 He's not big. But he's shredded. When I think about the next ten years. Like I don't need to be big big. It's probably not where you want. Right. Especially for rock climbing. Yeah, exactly. I mean you need to be lean, right? Like and strong.

30:31 And that's what I love about this. So I'm getting into I'm doing these every single day. I had net one two days in. I'm getting into it, you know? Tell us about the nug, because that was something that you told me onto. The nug, I mean I have it in my suitcase at the hotel here. It's just a simple little wooden device. Looks like a very large bar of soap with these different indentations carved into the sides. Like little finger indentations. Yeah, exactly. So you can use a carabiner to connect it to, say, a cable machine of some type in any gym. And look, you could use a loading pin and all this and the other thing and a daisy chain, but let's put a that aside. At a gym you could use a cable

31:10 and connect it through the loop with Carabiner and work on your Yeah, strength. And you brought this to Santa Fe when we were out there doing that meditation thing. I did, yeah. It's literally something small enough to slip into my sweatshirt pocket. So it's easy to travel with. I always travel with that and a band for multiple purposes for like something called DNS kind of core exercises and I Oh yeah, I know DNS. Yeah, so I use so I use a a band for that. And it's incredibly easy to travel with.

31:39 And then a handful of other things. There's something called an alpha ball, which I use for different types of kind of mobility. It's the size of like a very large, soft Softball. And all this stuff fits into the corner of a suitcase. And then I'll do

31:56 Also Something that um maybe we haven't talked about called Abrahang's Abraham. M. Abrahamsen, very well known. Rock climber on YouTube.

32:06 And Abra Hangs. I'm writing this down right now. Abraham's Abraham's. Are pretty simple. I mean it's partial body weight hangs in different positions. for ten seconds on, fifty seconds off for ten minutes. And you do that twice a day. And it's very, very moderate in intensity. With like a wooden kind of rock. Climbing kind of like a a hangboard. You could use a I mean you could also use a pull up bar, depending on how you position your hands.

32:33 And that's what I was doing in Santa Fe was that kind of stuff. Ten seconds on, fifty seconds off. And the endurance and strength gains that you get in your hands are just insane. Your I should say your lower arms. And It really helps. So I've been doing indoor climbing, but ultimately I'm like, you know what? This is a stretch goal. Multi pitch outdoor Yosemite. That just

32:57 And I am Deadly terrified of heights. Just talking like look I'm like just looking at my hands. Like I'm sweaty. Just talking about it. My hands were sweating the entire time. Yeah. For people who haven't seen the documentary. Even if you're not into rock climbing

33:13 Like that is amazing. Yeah, watch free solo. It'll freak you out. So that's one that I'm thinking about going deep on. I'd say that's very high up on the list because I am totally into it. I mean the the rock climbing when approached In a reasonable way, like a systematic reasonable way, not with like crazy dyno movements on bouldering. younger bodies can handle it, certain bodies can handle it. My body, not not so much. Uh, like I do not want to fall repeatedly from ten, fifteen feet up. I'm just not into it. So

33:46 In the case of doing it reasonably though. For instance, I spent a bunch of time. I've spent a lot of time in Utah. and climbing in some of the Salt Lake City indoor gyms. You have. Incredible athletes.

33:58 And I'll make that a little Fine, yeah. When I would go to the gym, it was generally like eleven AM. Who the hell goes to the rock climbing gym at eleven AM?

34:10 On a weekday. These are retirees. And moms. So you would see, for instance, these like sixty seventy, seventy five, almost eighty year olds. We're doing like five eleven plus. This is when you were single, so that was like I'm hunting.

34:26 Exactly. Cougarville. And You would just see these people in their sixties and seventies doing things that I could not even Imagine doing. With complete inversion on overhangs. Oh yeah. I've seen sixty, seventy feet up, you had the National

34:44 Speed climbing team, you had Olympians. But More than like the young guns, right? The fifteen year olds who are doing all this crazy stuff because they're impervious. It was the people in their sixties and seventies who were climbing. Every day.

34:59 that inspired me to wanna take this more seriously. So I was like, okay. I wanna play the long game here. Yeah. What can I do? That's fun. It's a puzzle. There's a lot of Tetris. They'd literally call bouldering They come problems.

35:13 Problems. Yeah, exactly. And so it's there's a lot of brain power involved. And Also, it's just to give an idea of the technicality. I mean there are For example, women who cannot do five pull ups.

35:26 Who can climb five thirteen, five fourteen. That's very, very, very, very, very hard. Just for people who have no reference point, like world class, like five fourteen, five fifteen. Like insane. Insane. Like that's when you're in the magazines. Oh, right. And It's because of the technical depthness. And yeah, there's like ape index and other physiological factors that play into it, but

35:48 That is a very long answer to your question. of what I'm thinking about now, which is rock climbing. Okay. Lately navigating the financial landscape can feel like a full time job, and it's not a very fun full time job. It's stressful, but it does not have to be that way. You can simplify. Wealthfront helps you Tune out the noise and earn more on every dollar with sophisticated, easy to use products like their cash account. You get fee-free instant withdrawals to eligible accounts. And when you're ready to invest, transferring to their expert built investing accounts is simple. For a limited time, my listeners can earn up to 4.30% variable APY.

36:28 On cash. What that means is on top of the 3.3 base APY from program banks, new cash account clients get an exclusive three month.75% APY boost on up to$150,000. Then they get another 0.25% APY increase by direct depositing$1,000 a month. in maintaining a funded investing account. Terms and conditions apply. More than a million people trust Wealthfront. Check them out. Go to wealthfront.com slash Tim to claim your boost. That's wealthfront.com slash Tim.

36:58 This is a paid endorsement of Wealthfront. Client experiences vary. Wellfront brokerage isn't a bank. Base APY as of january thirtieth, twenty twenty six, and subject to change. Details in the episode description. I

37:14 The archery was great. And the competition was fantastic. I love competing. However, our tree is By definition, incredibly solitary. Like you're just by yourself doing the same thing over and over and over again, thousands of times.

37:28 And I've had enough of that in my life. I've hit my quota. I wanna hang out with other people. Yeah, timing is super social because you sit there and you and you if neither of you can do it, you'll be like ah Like, what if you put your like Found like that and like kinda lunged up that way and stretched. You know what I mean? Like Yeah, and then you can ask other people for tips, like beta, right? Yeah, yeah. It's fun. It's really fun. I just love it.

37:53 Yeah, I wanted to Mention something if people haven't read it. The blade itself, which is uh series. It's not very long. I think it's two or three volumes by Joe Abercrombie. It's uh Fantasy.

38:06 Novels. They're really good. The audiobooks are incredible. And the reason I thought of this, the blade itself. Is because of our conversation around Ohm and Toaster and you know a friend of mine just died in a plane crash. Jesus less than two weeks ago. Yeah, Jets one that we're You knew him? Yeah, Josh. Oh God, that was a latitude too. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. So

38:32 You just don't know when your time is up. And in the blade itself, I mean there are a lot of various like sucks. Yeah, things. And we weren't like super close friends, but certainly like friendly, you know, acquaintances. Like we've That wouldn't be strange to a text. And uh You just don't know when your time is up.

38:49 And the blade itself. Explores this in a million different dimensions. It's really, really outstanding. I've read a I say that as someone who's read a lot of fantasy. And it just talks about the randomness of Life or death in war, right? It's like you happen to like squat down, take a shit, and the guy next to you gets an arrow through the head. It's like it's just dumb luck. Yeah.

39:10 Um, which is a way to I suppose reiterate the Gratitude. Piece that you were mentioning earlier. So I mean that's gonna be a a tough act to follow.

39:22 Wh where do you want to go from that? Yeah, I mean a few things. Well, let's just go straight into like working out. Um have you tried this? Yeah. I have actually. Okay, I really like it. Yeah. So for people that are on audio, I just got turned on to this new protein called Pioneer Pastures and it's thirty grams in this little tiny shake. It's A two. So it has lactose removed and it's also from that special genetic cow. Do you know more about the A two? Can you use the A two? I've heard about the A two. I don't know a whole lot about it. It's like the Holstein and some other cow and dah.

39:54 More people Tolerate better. Than not. I don't get any stomach issues or anything with this type of whey protein. Anyway, this is not I'm not an investor or any shit like that. This is you can get it at Target or whatever. It's tasty as hell, and it's thirty grams, and I don't know, if you're trying to put a little muscle mass. I love that this is next to the lala tequila. Exactly.

40:14 I mean you can mix them if you want. Everything a growing bone needs. Anyway, I just I just wanted to know if you had tried it, because like we always this is the random show. I've tried them shit. Yeah, I tried it. Um I do, yeah. There's a gym I can't remember exactly, I think the Brooklyn Barbell Club where they sold this. And I tried it then. And I did. Yeah. Tolerated super well. Didn't get the grumpy guts. Yeah. As one might. What's your favorite protein out of curiosity? I mean my protein, I mean this is a softball pitch, but Funny you should ask, Kevin. Uh

40:43 I'm look, I'm involved with this one, but you know what? I it's like I always disclose have you noticed how few Fucking people disclose what they're involved with. They're like, Yeah, I've heard of this great thing. Oh my God. And they never disclose they're involved. The fact that involved. No, I know. But the FTC doesn't enforce that stuff. Anyway, I mean right now, like I'm traveling with Maui Nui as usual. This one though is kind of interesting. I probably get Forty percent of my protein from Mao Nui venison. This is wild harvested.

41:14 access deer from Hawaii. There's a long story there. But Incredibly nutrient dense. I love this shit and this is not an ad, but I do have a hard question for you, like a real hard question. This is how you know that it's not an ad because you find what you were about to say. Let's hear it. Processed meat nitrates linked to a lot of cancer and bad shit. Yep. What are your thoughts on that? This is very, very, very minimally processed. So you can get summer sausage or the sticks. This is free of most of that bullshit.

41:42 What do you think that is? Because it is real. Like people that eat more nitrate processed ultra processed meats. Yeah. If it's ultra processed and the shelf life is like three years, I would raise an eyebrow and probably hit pause. So the fact of the matter is most of this stuff that is minimally processed Almost definitionally is not gonna last very long on the shelf. What do they mean by minimally processed when you see like a meat stick? Like what do you think about that versus Is it the amount of salt content that creates the nitrates? Like what what No, no, it's actually nitrates are a whole totally separate category. So you're you're looking to I think an easy

42:17 Heuristic for this is just shelf life. Uh your eye your your eyes are gonna be better than mine. If you can read this size two font on this, then you can tell me. Good to go. Uh And I'll buy you some time. In the meantime.

42:33 Forty seven years. No just kidding. Twenty five years. It doesn't say on here. Yeah. It'll say somewhere on the box. There we go. Twenty Best Buy. Yeah, twenty seven. So it's like less than one year, I think, actually looking at it here. Yeah. Yeah. So Yeah, less than one year. Yeah. Yeah. And what makes this interesting is that This I give also Molly looks really good for 12 years. Mm-hmm.

42:56 I give her probably two or three of these a week. The way I think of this, this is Hepherd 10. So they're a bunch of these different sticks. Like every professional team you can imagine uses these things on in their training. But this is made with Wild harvested venison, liver, and heart. So it has some organ meat in it. You do not taste that.

43:16 It just tastes like regular jerky stick. But I treat this like a multivitamin. It's like I take Let's call it two or three of these a week. And limit it to that, and then the rest of the time I'm taking the other either peppered or regular sticks. But this is

43:32 When I'm on the go, I mean, literally, this was in my bag when I got here. Right. When I'm on the go, I'm traveling with this. Probably some nuts of some type, like pistachios or whatever. Walnuts pretty good for a host of reasons. And That's about it. I mean I might have

43:50 a couple of servings of exogenous ketones, but I haven't taken that stuff in a couple of months. You told me you freaked me out. It messes up your liver. This is a controversial. Topic. Yeah, there are certain Exogenous ketones. It contains something called one three butane diol. It's very common.

44:08 And there's a lot of debate around this. So the jury is still out, but some people believe that that can produce liver toxicity. So I Consume Anything with one three butane dial in moderation.

44:24 Now to play not devil's advocate, but to to a counterpoint a lot of the people who are Putting forth that hypothesis or claiming that's true are selling their own ketone salts. So they're actually selling A competitive price.

44:39 So question mark, question mark. You can look at the peer reviewed literature and decide for yourself. What I have decided personally is that You should use the exogenous ketones very intermittently. I have experimented a lot with every type of exhaust ketone you can imagine.

44:55 Yeah I mean you got me on that good shit. It's expensive as hell, but like that stuff goes straight to your head. The one that you do want to do. We can talk about it. This is how you know it's good. Off camera, Tim's like I don't want to mention the brand.

45:10 Because if I do, it'll sell out and I won't be able to get my own supply. And that's how I knew I was like, That's some good shit. Tim wants to guard his own supply of it. Like you know it's good. Yeah. And and it is good, but it's BHB. I won't get too much into the technicality here, but it's beta hydroxybutyrate bonded to one three butene diol. So you're still getting that one three butene dial. Which means you should take it in moderation. But In a pinch. When you want it for a podcast or something like that, man, it really works. It does work. It really works. And I mean, I've given it to relatives with dementia.

45:45 And within twenty minutes their sentences have like Five X in length and they're more Acute verbally, it's wild. How do you give it I wish they had it in pill form because In some sense it's really hard to give That to someone.

45:59 That has dementia'cause it's like it tastes like gasoline. It doesn't taste great. It's not the worst thing. I mean I've had a lot of foul stuff in my life. I should have shot. With this person and I was like, I'll do it with you. And then we went for a walk.

46:11 And that was it. There are some concerns around one three beauty and dial and Balance. So particularly in older adults, you do not want to contribute to any Risk.

46:24 That's just The death knell for a lot of people. I just had to put my mom into a different home that has the it's actually kind of cool. It's sad, but she's been falling. They had this like new AI orb that sits up there and it kinda does like a kind of radar type situation and it detects falls.

46:43 Oh wow. So the second she falls in the home, like they can rush in and like help her out and all that. Yeah. How do you think about Pre-grieving that. Or contending with that. Yourself. With family, that's rough. I mean, it doesn't sound easy.

47:00 You know If you've like play forward the tape, right? It's like I mean I think about this with my own parents and it's just like Nobody lasts forever, you know. It's it's one of those things where It's so funny'cause when you're a teenager and I remember when my dad was having a hard time standing, and this was like when I was much younger before he passed and I was like, oh dad's gonna be in like the thing that I might have to like push him on it if he has to sit down. Kind of those walkers, it can also be something you can push somebody on.

47:23 I was so embarrassed, you know, I was like, Oh, are people looking at us or whatever? And now I like push my mom with pride. Like in the inner like Walker thing and I'm like I don't know. You don't know when it's gonna what's gonna happen, but it's like the only thing you can do is just make sure to show up, you know, and hang out.

47:40 And I'm very lucky that I My mom has dementia, but it's it is a type that It's not Alzheimer's, so it's like it's probably vascular or something. So I can walk in and she knows who I am. She can't take what she had for breakfast, but she knows who I am. But she's like, I'll take that all day long.

47:56 I know you have family members that are in the same boat or a ton of family members with Alzheimer's literally got a call. from one of my relatives wanting to discuss interventions and It's a tough conversation because there really isn't much. Like you have to As far as I can tell, act preemptively. Which is why actually this relates to another bullet of mine.

48:20 I Yeah, five. What was that? Oh, is how many b how many balls did you have? Oh.

48:27 Yeah. That was good. Of all of all the rye whiskeys. It's the only one that I can tolerate. I loath stationary bikes. I just I I really find stationary biking to be one of the most soul crushing things in the world. It's the worst. However, yeah. I mean I've tried Teloton.

48:47 And didn't like the ergonomics and So on for a bunch of reasons. And then I have tried very expensive. Very, very expensive setups recommended to me by a fan. Fancy doctors and so on, which are just like too uncomfortable. Like I'm incredibly hunched over. Like my back is basically parallel with the floor.

49:08 Self in the stomach. It's so uncomfortable. No, I'm talking about getting on like a stationary bike, but if you're in like a racing position, you have to adopt this hunchback. And like there are a million reasons why I find that uncomfortable. There is a bike, however, it's very easy to find. It's pretty common in public gyms called the Kaiser M three I studio indoor bike. I don't know why they have to make it. So difficult in its nomenclature, but the Kaiser M three I Інік і майс і

49:40 you can elevate the handlebars enough to sit in a comfortable position. With a decent saddle. me and in the seat such that I can do the V two and the V four and all of that training. For me in a comfortable position without compromising my low back, which has been a huge step forward. So this is the only bike that I've used consistently. this kind of training and I was having a number of conversations with a neuroscientist named Dr Tommy Wood.

50:09 over a period of weeks and If for instance you do something call the Norwegian four by four, there's data to suggest that It's VO2 max training, so it's very, very, very intense, but it's like four minutes on. Three to four minutes off. Let's just call it three minutes. Four minutes on, three minutes off, and you do that for four rounds.

50:27 This is the only bike that I've been able to use to do this consistently. And if you do that For I think it's three times a week. Perfect. Five to six months. the volumetric changes, meaning the neuroanatomical changes and the hippocampus and other areas that are certainly indicated in things like Alzheimer's.

50:47 lasts for up to five years. Wow. So if you do five to six months of gutting it out three times a week, the result. The dividends pay off. For it seems Up to or possibly beyond five years. Holy shit. Crazy. Wow. So

51:02 That's probably the sauna in there and you're like Well that's why I'm doing yeah, I'm doing yeah, I'm doing all the usual stuff, right? I'm doing the sauna and Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like okay, sure, you don't have thirty minutes to do it, like do ten minutes. Like you can't do a sauna, take a hot bath, like figure it out. You know what my good is that I like? It's not perfect, but it's good. Which is I go on my treadmill.

51:26 I started to Four point seven five or something incline. Yeah. So it's like not crazy, but it's not Yeah, I can still do shit. Yeah. And I set it to only like two point five on the walking.

51:38 Yeah. And all Play Duolingo chess'cause they have chess on there now for Duolingo. They teach you chess. It's amazing. And you can play friends and live people and all that stuff. And they do game replays and they teach and I'm learning a ton. And

51:53 thirty forty minutes go by and you're drenched in sweat. I know it's not high intensity. And all the benefits on the the cognitive side seem to be around like a lot of high end. Yeah, but who knows. But It's good. Doing something. It's doing something, right? So I I've really enjoyed that. Like if you if you just want something To both be learning and engaged and kind of like having fun. Yeah. So you forget about the time. Do you know what I'm talking about? Where it's like, You just like oh wait, what time is it? Oh shit, I've been on for thirty seven minutes. I can get off now, you know? Yeah, I I I love that type of cardio.

52:24 Yeah, I mean For me, I mean this is gonna sound like maybe um I'll step down, but it It's like the older I get, the more I realise like A little goes a long way. Yesterday, for instance, like I had a bunch of stuff stacked up and I won't bore people with the commitments, but

52:39 I didn't really have any time to go to the gym and it was my day to go to the gym to do X, Y, and Z X. And I went in and I did like three sets. I was literally in there for five minutes and I left. But it's better than nothing. Right. Totally. Something is better than nothing. I'm not gonna go to the Olympics with that approach. Yeah. But let's fucking be real. I'm not gonna the Olympics. I mean maybe as like a bystander and like getting the Yeah. Oh man. You know, I'll throw some New random stuff in there. There's a study that got my attention, it's been out since twenty twenty five, September twenty-five. This is in JAMA.

53:16 And this is the title. Single treatment with M M one twenty, and then in parentheses Lacergide, I think is how that's pronounced. In generalized anxiety disorder. So this is This is the cat. This is a randomized clinical trial looking at

53:32 Anxiety. Which is often comorbid, meaning happening at the same time as Depressive disorders. And I think this is sponsored by a company called Definium, which used to be MindMed. In any case, this is going I just looked it up. Yeah, well this so what what's interesting about this, and they're not gonna maybe love

53:53 My comparison, but So M one twenty Lisergi, I mean it's Comparable to LSD. Right. And this is a multi arm clinical trial. They did five arms, which is rare to do because the risk is that they'll blend together. So the arm means

54:12 A group who has is treated with a different intervention in this in this case. So they've got placebo. Twive micrograms fifty micrograms, a hundred micrograms, and two hundred micrograms. A hundred mics is That's what you can think of as a standard hit. Yeah. 100 micrograms. And the results are wild, man. If you look at the ham A score, this is up to twelve weeks out. You can see, I'll just show you.

54:40 How it's dose dependent. The more you take Basically the better it goes over Up to and I'm not sure how long the follow ups continued, but Where you land is you see that like the one hundred micrograms and two hundred are very, very close together. Like the like twenty five and fifty are are certainly

54:58 A lot higher. Now are you still getting the same psychedelic experience with this stuff? In the case of this particular compound, I don't know. My guess would be yes. I could be totally wrong in that, so Davinium, feel free to correct me. I am guessing the answer is yes with MM one twenty, but What that says to me is Hey, twelve weeks of relief.

55:23 With G A D generalized Anxiety Disorder, which I've been Clinically diagnosed with that no CD. Like twelve weeks is pretty good. And it seems like at least according to the data in this study, the minimum effective dose would be a hundred micrograms. Now a hundred micrograms At least for me. And for a lot of people, you will be tripping your balls off, not to get too technical. Wait a second.

55:44 Dude, it says that this was done at Neuroscape at UCSF. Was it really? This is Adam's lab. No shit. Are you serious? I'm dead serious. I just clicked through on it. It says phase three trial of MM120. For gad. Oh, that's amazing. This is our buddy. This is our buddy Adam. Okay. Well, I have a text that I need to send them. Oh my God. That's awesome. I wonder if I indirectly funded this because I helped fund some of Neuroscape stuff. That's funny. I'm hilarious. Yeah, I did not look at that. That's hilarious. Small world. Yeah.

56:16 Okay. There you go. So Yeah, it's interesting for G A D, we were talking about dementia. There's a case report with high dose Silosovia mushrooms. I don't think it was actually psilocybin synthesized.

56:31 Looking at This particular thing was a Japanese elderly woman with uh dementia might may have been Alzheimer's who Took I can't believe they did this too. Five grams, right? Yeah. And then she took five grams. So Terrence McKenna heroic dose. Somehow fell asleep for like

56:48 Nineteen hours something obscene. Which would be very, very worrisome if you're like the child of said parent. Wakes and then starts having like full Expositional conversations. in contrast with her previous like monosyllabic or or single word responses to things. And it was transient. It didn't last forever, but it it raises some very interesting questions. I've seen at least some case reports

57:15 Also with LSD. Producing similar. And I've been uh interested in this for probably a decade, right? Like I've kind of I've I've

57:26 Hypothesize this could be the case, it's just like Do you really want to give your parent like Under what circumstances is it ethical to give someone hallucinos. I could never do that to my mom because she was always anti all this stuff. Yeah. And then the second, like God forbid they have a bad trip. Like why would you want to put them through that? Yeah. You know? So

57:46 So I was curious. I was I was sent something by Well, someone I won't mention, but a very interesting case report on microdosing with L S D. Mm-hmm. Dementia. Did it work?

57:59 Yeah. Oh really? Yeah. And in terms of similar to the ketones. Not saying the mechanism is the same, but producing much more verbal fluidity. Right. Going from like Uh, I'm good. It depends.

58:14 And I have relatives who are limited to that now. Like they're basically giving answers that are non answers. Sounds good. Right, like these things that you could uses a reply to anything. Right. They're not necessarily groking what's happening. Two full paragraphs. Mm. Right. Which means To my interpretation, it's like offline to online.

58:34 Yeah, it's a really stark difference. Like because with the one word, two word answers, like you don't actually know if they're yeah understanding what's happening. Yeah. So Do you have some Mm one twenty on you right now. I don't. I don't. If if I did, I'd probably not take it. If you see a weird cut in the the video, and then we get infinitely smarter, you'll know. Yeah, exactly.

58:59 The flash all of a sudden we're just like for the smarter I would keep it probably to twenty mics or below. We'll see. But I found this pretty interesting for for G A D especially and then for the dementia piece, but It raises a lot of ethical questions. what is ethical to use as a treatment in someone who cannot give consent. Right.

59:19 That's a tough, gnarly problem. Right. Yeah. Especially if you're dealing with stuff that is not exactly Prescription medication. Yeah, I mean that's the whole thing. If if it goes sideways, you feel like an asshole.

59:32 Well to put it mildly. Yeah, to put it mildly. But if it if it's amazing and it gives you another, you know half day with A parent or a loved one. And you can full and have conversations and they see you and you see them in a way that you hadn't in six months, like or a year. That's amazing.

59:48 Yeah. Or if it potentially. Slows the decline. Yeah. I think it's too much to hope for a reversal, frankly. Yeah. But there are some strange phenomena out there, man. Like there's this phenomenon called terminal lucidity where someone like on their deathbed when they've been vegetative and like that book that'd you read did you read that? No, I didn't read that. Okay, because they but they talk about it. But this is well doc is well documented. Where people suddenly they've been basically vegetative or

1:00:17 completely unable to respond to any stimulus. They come fully lucid. Yeah. They become totally lucid and they can have full blown extensive conversations. That's why what the fuck is going on there? I'm telling you It is so weird to me that we think like Like a lot of the things that we do in physical form, like what we do in life, like mimics nature in many ways. And All of our data Is like backed up in the cloud.

1:00:40 And we're like, oh, we're not backed up in the cloud in any way. And then there's these people with like full blown entanglements in their brain. full on, you know, the Alzheimer's for like a decade, and then they become completely Lucid? Where is that coming from? Okay, I see what you're saying. I I was I wasn't tracking that fully for a second. If it's if I'm hearing it correctly, it's like if it's all Localized.

1:01:03 All of that ability. is localized within the confines of the skull. Mm-hmm. How do you explain? Right. This given all the structural deterioration. Exactly.

1:01:13 Exactly. Yeah, I don't have good answers for that. I just don't it is a well document as far as I know, a well documented phenomenon. So it's like go figure that one out. I mean, I'm not qualified way above my pay grade. Crazy, man. It's wild.

1:01:28 So I'll give a shout out to somebody. We're not gonna open this right now'cause we'll start chewing on them and it'll be the the we'll be up all night. Is it the one twenty? No, this is new tonic N E U T O N I C no Tropics. See that's a pun. A tropics'cause these are toothpicks. That I was given by

1:01:47 A podcaster you may recognize named Chris Williamson. And they have they have like twenty Wanna say twenty, I might be getting that off, but like twenty, twenty five milligrams of caffeine in each toothpick. Oh wow. And there are a couple of other no tropics, aka smart drug coffee. Yeah. Yeah. Smart drug. And they're great. Because if I have cups of coffee, I will chug a cup of coffee and then if it gets refilled, I'll chug another cup of coffee and it's a problem. These actually is in terms of pacing. Have been fantastic.

1:02:19 So that's been my Sort of No. Exactly quite as interruptus for people to get that. But Ad libidum interruptus avoiding overconsumption of

1:02:29 Coffee and other stimulants. This helps me to kinda pace it'cause even if I chew on this thing until it's Fragments of wood. Max I can squeeze out of it is twenty, twenty five milligrams. Yeah. Uh what else do you got, Kevin? Yeah, I mean the only other thing that I have that I think is interesting is

1:02:44 Is what's happening in the world of I don't want to talk a lot about AI because I'm just frankly AI'd out. But I will say that The idea that we can all now kind of take control Of Our productivity and pretty much anything that we want to control now, like device wise.

1:03:03 We can do with just a simple a few simple prompts on AI. And I had a buddy that came over to my house and he was like, Hey You got cameras in your house. I have something called ubiquity, which is like they have cameras and they're it's a very common kind of household type situation when you wanna have Security system, front door thing, cameras, sensors.

1:03:23 Water detectors underneath your the things in case things leak and you're out of town, whatever. And so I've got this whole setup and he's like, Hey, you know, they have a full on API where you can just tell bot or whatever to code against it. And I was like okay, that's interesting. Like What can it do? The cameras now

1:03:42 Have AI sensors where they can detect Who it is that's walking in. So it's like oh Tim's coming up to your door. Oh, that's your daughter, that's your dog. What it detects my dog, toaster, like sees him and it puts it like a little dog. emblem above his head when he's walking around and it knows that it's toaster. But the crazy shit is I was like, okay, well what if

1:04:03 I can go further. And I can tell it to do actions, there's a speaker hooked up to as well. So that's for security. So basically if anyone loaders in my alleyway In it detects it. It's like I ha I play some like really funky shit where it's like detected like loiter in the alleyway, like or whatever and just to scare people off and case they're I am the bad man. Yeah, but you can draw little areas around like the where there

1:04:29 Like they shouldn't be, which is like at your door fiddling with your door and say if they stand here for more than thirty seconds. Play said audio out of speaker. So I was like, okay, this is What if when I walk in my house If I'm wearing like a hat

1:04:44 Of like my favorite sports team. And they're playing. It like reads me the scores like I walk in. So like you can think about all these things where it's like it's Doing

1:04:56 Stuff based on your activity. So like if you're out there gardening it's be like it'll be like Hey Kevin I noticed that the plant over here wasn't watered enough So it's watching all of this stuff. And so there's a lot of if then then that kind of situation. Like If I see you doing X, so like the latest I have is like

1:05:14 I programmed it so when it sees the license plate on my car. It automatically knows to open the gate. 'Cause it knows it's me. Yeah, yeah, that's it. And the camera looks at the license plate on the freaking car. Checks it against the database and allows me in. How crazy is that? And this is like for people that are listening, I'm not talking about like

1:05:33 Ten thousand dollar systems. The camera's like two hundred dollars. Anyone can do this at home, you know? It's just wild to think about finally we had all these kind of discrete systems that I had some Nest stuff and I had some Google Home stuff and I had now they're all talking to each other. So you can just do

1:05:49 Kinda really crazy. I know you would like this because You're the kind of person that You've told me before, like you don't like to answer your door. The delivery person is like

1:05:58 Damn then all of a sudden your address is like all over the internet. Docs. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I know you said you don't I I'm also pretty AI out, but at the same time it's like I can't resist going back to the opium den. It's so fascinating. What are you doing now with the with the I stuff? Well, I mean, I'm more curious to hear your thoughts and predictions, frankly, because I think you're better at it, but I mean I'm using

1:06:23 Play code with various APIs to do tons of like inbox analysis and stuff. Right. I'm doing uh twenty year retrospective analysis of angel investing. It's like who made what introductions? Which companies did I not reply to that ended up being successes. Which did I Turned down that ended up being. Really important. You really want to do it to yourself. I suspect it would be worse than it was. I actually have not I haven't missed that many.

1:06:50 Explicit. Yeah. I wanted to test my own stories against data, right? Because I have all sorts of stories about why I did certain things and why certain things worked out. And I have certain stories about my Batting average. And I'm like But is it true? Right. Really? Is it really true? Like let's look at some hard numbers.

1:07:13 The sad truth And I have a buddy that wears up the bracelet and you see me with the necklace over on the way categorizes your AI and listens to you twenty four seven. Yeah. It's about seventy ish percent that we Think we know, but is ac actually what we know. Like out of the hundred percent of like what we think we know, like this is the truth.

1:07:30 Like I said I wanted a dark chocolate bar at seven PM. It's like nah, he said it at five. And you said it this way, you know you said it was about job. Yeah, exactly. So it's it's always about twenty percent off from where you actually think your brain's at. Sure. Which is is brutal. Well, plus, I mean, that's like last week, right? If you're talking about like fifteen years ago. Exactly. I mean, if you listen to any Genesis story of any startup, you're like Wait a minute now. Like this is like a startup comic working on material, but he's been working on this one five minute bit so long that now he believes that's actually truth. Yeah. The sanitizing and the editing of these startup Genesis stories is hilarious. And there's no reason to think that I would be or you would be exempt from it. Right. Right, when you're telling your own story, even if you're just telling it to yourself.

1:08:16 What's the number one thing that you've learned by applying AI to your life in this fashion? Like what's the thing where you walked away and said, like Damn, that was like insightful and I'm gonna change my behavior. Or I learned something new about myself that I do wouldn't have if I had not used AI. Well I think

1:08:32 From a Holistic health perspective. By holistic I mean Having enough data related to medications, supplements. Predispositions, side effects, what happened to me two weeks ago. The LLMs have been incredibly helpful.

1:08:47 the picture that they get and the speed with which they can deliver an answer that I can interrogate is just incredible. So what did you learn? Like what was the thing that you Uh I mean honestly it's it's mostly avoiding disaster, right? It's like what can I Are any of these things contraindicated? With one another. Could A, B, or C explain D? And you have to keep in mind these things can still hallucinate, but

1:09:12 You can I don't want to say Eliminate that but minimizing it by just Fact checking across LMs. There's that. I would say that There's a lot of insight on hopefully

1:09:22 That can translate to future decision making related to Investing, which is investing for me is not Just amassing more chips. It's what's fun about investing to me is it's a way To scorecard your thinking and decision making.

1:09:39 It's just a very objective way. to decide if something was the right or the wrong decision. And you can fine slice that and there are ways that you could maybe question that, but If you're asking yourself, was I thinking well last month? That's not a very helpful question. Where do you go from there?

1:09:58 Right. If you're logging maybe every decision you make every day and then trying to cross reference outcomes with blah blah blah, like yeah, but you're never gonna do that. But when you're making relatively frequent investments, you can do that. You can also run counterfactuals. What if I did the opposite? What if I had not sold that? What if I had kept that? What if I had done this? What if I had done that? Is that worth your time, though? At the end of the day, throw everything in the S V five hundred. I just go to bed. Well, there's that.

1:10:25 I would say it's worth it to me because I find it interesting. I actually enjoy the intellectual exercise of it. But otherwise I would say with In terms of like how AI has Impacted me. I would say that

1:10:40 The Honest answers not that much because most shit isn't worth doing in the first place. People are finding very, very clever ways to expedite automating workflows of all different types and doing something well does not make it important or worth doing in the first place. So there's a lot I think the level of bullshit that is being done just at a very fast, efficient rate, is skyrocketing. But simultaneously, like there are definitely cases

1:11:07 Where I look back at say this analysis of twenty years of stuff. To do that manually would be impossible. It would take me a year full time with multiple people to do that. And with the clod code.

1:11:21 Like Gmail API and Leaving my computer running for a handful of hours a few times. That's like What you get back is fucking incredible. Yeah. I it's Unbelievable. And I haven't even scratched the surface.

1:11:35 Yeah. I will say also another way that AI is maybe affected my life in a Net negative way. And I'm not we have another mutual friend who maybe we shouldn't name who feels very similarly is We'll bleep that out, but yeah.

1:11:49 Jesus Christ. So If you train AI is on your writing. They're really good. Yeah. And I think I feel

1:12:03 This is a stretch of a comparison, obviously,'cause I'm not an adept like a world class Go player, but when Alpha Go defeated one of the top Korean players. Mm-hmm. He was kinda like, I'm done. Like I don't find joy in this anymore. Yeah. Like if we're playing against machines.

1:12:19 Yeah. And when I see These AIs very Beautifully, I'm not gonna lie. We're like in the top of the first inning. This stuff is gonna get so much better. Spit out stuff that is So much better.

1:12:33 Yeah. I mean I can still write. But what they can do in thirty seconds is what would take me thirty hours. And I'm just like, Fuck. It really drains the motivation for me to put in those thirty hours. Yeah. Why wouldn't it? Of course it would, right? Yeah, but in some sense you can consider it a really good co pilot because for it to come up with novel ideas that would engage an audience, that's still the holy grail where it's not quite there yet.

1:13:01 Right, like it's gonna make You sound It's gonna button up your copy. And it might expand upon it in ways that you wouldn't. But it's not gonna come up with the original thesis for the whole thing, right? Yeah, it's gonna have trouble with the original thesis, but even there

1:13:17 I think It does a pretty good job. I haven't tried with writing stuff. Well, if you just do a data dump and you're like create Amazing. Oh, you sent me that link. Yeah, if you if you just do a data dump you're like create. Oh yeah, that was good. That was really interesting. Tell people what you did because they might find this parts of their own life. Sure. So you could do this in whichever model you're using, whether it's you know or chat GPT or whatever. If it knows you

1:13:45 You can tie in your inbox too. Yeah, you can tie in your inbox. In my case I didn't do that. But if it has enough history on you, you can just ask, What do what do you think I should do? in the next five years. What might be Some rewarding paths of exploration. I think I put something like that. What are three to five ideas? that you think could be rewarding career exploration for this in the next X period of time. So if you listen yeah, if they've used AI for let's call it three to six months and you've probably given us several hundred things to think about. It will span cross those conversations

1:14:23 As long as you turn this on. I it's I think it's on by default now, but it used to be an opt in thing where you say Allow the AI to look cross conversation. Right. So it has a holistic understanding of who you are. Yeah. And the answers are fucking outstanding. Yeah. I mean really, really good. Yeah. I sent it to a few friends, sent it to you, I sent it to a few of my closest friends and they're like, That's pretty fucking good.

1:14:43 Yeah. I it was really cool. It's some of the ideas, I was like, damn, you should do that, dude. Yeah. We had this one business idea for you to do, and it wasn't a book. Yeah. And I was like Dude, I text you back, I was like That's awesome. Oh.

1:14:56 Go build that. Yeah, there's there. I mean there were there were business ideas, there were certainly kind of non revenue But philosophically aligned ideas, it was shocking to me. So That's actually a very good example of something that has deeply informed what I'm mulling over. As I imagine. The future, I was like, man, that actually is a really good because keeping in mind, I'm asking questions about

1:15:21 Things of interest, things I like, things I don't like. I am asking questions about different scientific interests related to Sise Foundation, my nonprofit foundation. I'm asking questions about investing. I'm asking questions about writing. I'm asking questions about relationships. I'm asking questions about organizing trips for friends. I'm asking so many different questions. Am I still on the border nonprofit? Think you're like secretary or something? Yeah, something like that.

1:15:48 Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe you were. Honorably discharged. I don't know. I've been doing like for years. I'm like, okay. Yeah. Well, I said it was gonna be a light lift. It's a light lift. And uh I mean that that's a very good example, right? I mean, that may be the best example because if that even ten percent informs, like A major next chapter. Yeah. Like that's a big deal for me, certainly. And

1:16:16 It makes me think a little bit about Podcast listeners. Especially. Readers also, but to a greater extent podcast listeners to come up to me. And most listeners I run into are really great and there are always a couple of weirdos, but

1:16:32 Most are fantastic and they'll say something often like I'm so sorry you don't know me at all and I feel like I know you. And what I say a lot of the time is actually if you listen to my podcasts Every week or even every month. You do know me pretty well. Yeah.

1:16:49 And then you think about A machine that never forgets. Yeah. It's gonna know you pretty damn well. Yeah. Worse. And it's spooky in a way. Yeah. But I started getting more out of the LLMs.

1:17:06 when I started asking questions. Now you have to be I think a little careful with outsourcing this. And absolving yourself of responsibility to think about these things, but when you ask it open ended personal questions in the way that you would ask a close friend. What do you think are three to five Creative way I might explore things professionally in the next five years. Yeah.

1:17:27 As opposed to Something that you think is more suitable for a robot. Yeah, yeah. You get some really Interesting response. So cool. That's a great use case. Yeah. The one thing I've been playing around with lately that I haven't told you about yet, but

1:17:43 You know, I think about all these AI startups and everyone that's creating all these different apps and all that stuff and and for me It's kinda fun to watch as a kinda bystander being like Oh, cool, you're going to make this But I I really Wanna explore things that Just no one has done before. It's always been interesting to me, more than just like iterative, kind of like standing down under the rough edges. A lot of startups will go out there and be like,

1:18:04 Hey, you know what sucks is? You know, word processing doesn't do this, so I'm gonna like make a slightly better word processor. I'm just making this up, but I like the kind of like wilder, crazier, like I'd rather have it fail and say I did something new. Then just do something boring. That makes sense. Oh, I get it. And and so lately what I've done part of why I have so many fatalities. Yeah, exactly. Same. What I've done lately is I've I went and bought a bunch of these decks of cards.

1:18:33 on Amazon that are values cards. Meaning like they give you like a deck of a hundred things and like what are your core values? And you're like empathy or kindness or like you like flip through them And the way they typically work is that You have like a really high value, a medium, and a low value, and then you put'em into different stacks. And then you walk away and you say

1:18:53 Oh, this is my high value stack of Things that are my core values of Mean a lot to me. There might be ten or fifteen different cards. And what's interesting is to do that with

1:19:03 Like friends and partners and things like that, and then compare them and say Hey, what do we align on what we don't align? And I can imagine for like an intimate partner this would be a pretty important thing to do. And so I started there And I'm like, okay, I'm well, I'm gonna scan these cards in. And then I'm gonna par it down and make

1:19:18 These core values where you come in and say, This matters to me and almost like a like a swiping like Yeah, dating app or something like Yes, I'm into Yes, I'm into empathy. No, I'm not. Yeah, exactly. And so you you y but you swipe through them and then when you're done with that. Then you've got your list of like These values and they can change over time. And so I think the important thing is to log that and say these are my values today, but tomorrow

1:19:41 One might shift a little bit. And Then I thought about contractual bonds, and so like the working title half for it is just called Bond. Where I can say like

1:19:50 With a partner. I'm gonna create a contract with you where we both have to shake on it. Meaning like A virtual shake. Like you think of it as almost like a Sim City like situation. This is my city. This is her city or a friend's city. And we're gonna agree that I take the trash out every Tuesday night.

1:20:06 And there's an emotional shake on both sides, and if I break this bond. Yeah. Results in what? And so from the partner side, it will result in a one to ten on how much damaging this is to me. So Not taking the trash out, probably be like, ah, that sucks'cause the trash is gonna overflow. That's probably a three to most people, right? Then I kinda get negative points in case I break that bond.

1:20:29 But what's interesting though That will link back to a core value of theirs and a core value of mine. And I wanna show up as a good partner and there'll be a core value associated with that. And then you could see those bonds between multiple people. And the reason I say this is because. I've always been one of these people historically that

1:20:46 Yes to so many things and then might be a last minute. I'm the worst at that. You know, where I'm like I'm in. And then I'm like I'm an introvert. I'm out. The last minute, right? And so I just think that there needs to be a system where Almost like a LinkedIn for like

1:21:01 Values and trust and bonds. There's a great Wu Tang quote that's like word is bond. And ultimately like I really believe that. Like there's something really cool about saying You know, we have the better uh business bureau. That's like the best we got. Oh, this person like they did well by their customers. Two thousand times.

1:21:18 What about individuals in saying like hey This person was always empathetic towards me, or this person was kind and helped me move on a Sunday. What prompted all this? I don't know, I'm just thinking about it. Just like the thing I think about is that there's such a dissatisfying answer. No, hold on. Let me give you the real answer. I call this dark information.

1:21:38 Dark information. So dark information is information that exists in the real world. But we have yet to put in physical form. And so right now you and I have a trust thing. Yeah. You know that If the camera was turned off, there're certain things that you can tell me that you're pretty certain I will not tell anyone else. Every once in a while I do. But you will know you know where that line is, right? But that hasn't been concretized in any type of like visual real format.

1:22:06 And so there's something interesting. I'm just brainstorming with you in real time because we've had a couple of drinks, but like My point is If there was a system where I could say I've created these bonds, I've built up this reputation. But it would also give me a way to reflect back and be like, Oh, you know what?

1:22:22 I can see now historically that I've often bailed on events that I signed up for. Let me improve that in myself. The whole point of what you brought up a minute ago was If I use AI to go back historically and look across things, I can detect these trends and then make course corrections based on those trends, right? Yeah. And so there's something interesting about This idea of There are these different facets, so there's in these like emotional facets we have with every individual.

1:22:49 How might we track those? What jumps out at me about this is Maybe a cool use case would be identifying You could write it out, or you could have cards. Your values

1:23:02 But maybe to put a finer point on it, the type of person you believe yourself to be. Right. Or the very different than what people receive you. Or or the type of person you want to be. Right. Exactly. And then it's like let's take a look at your calendar and your email and your iMessage to see how much Your story of what you think you are or what you want to be matches up with your behavior. So I built I built And then you get a report card. I built a prototype for exactly this. So remember maybe seven years ago you did a three sixty review for me. Yeah. Those things are brutal. For people that don't know what three sixty reviews are, is like you give Ten year friends is somebody

1:23:35 They interview them. They collect all the data anonymously. Could also be like coworkers and co workers, bosses, whatever. And then you get a report back being like here are the deficiencies and positives. that this person brings Anonymized. Anonymized. And they are very different than what you think you're you how you show up. Totally. And so like that's the idea. I literally was watch looking at mine from like twelve years ago. Yeah. A couple weeks ago and I was just like I know. So tough.

1:24:03 I know. So you get it back and you're like Who said this? I know. I think I think I know what you said, by the way. Do you ever use the word child rearing? Child of you. Did you ever say that?

1:24:16 Child rearing. I mean. To throw me off, would you ever say that? Throw you off the sun trail. Because before I had kids, somebody in my Anonymous three sixty review said like Oh, he's gonna have a hard time with child rearing. Oh no, that wasn't like who the f no that's not me. I don't have any friends that even have that in their vocabulary. And I'm like the only person that could do that would be Tim trying to throw me off with a fucking smart ass word. No, that wasn't me. That wasn't me. That wasn't me. No no. I think I'd be able to identify whatever responses I give.

1:24:46 That's the one thing that stuck with me for like fifteen years. Like that. Man, you're lucky if you got off of that. I've got so much more. Good Lord. You know what I've been doing? That has been really helpful. Because the blank page is something I struggle with with writing, which is part of the reason why the AI is so demoralizing in a sense because the LMs within like thirty seconds are just like

1:25:07 Boom. How you like me now? Try to match that. But Using Even though I don't certainly don't know the future of this company'cause they might get replaced by features that are innate to X, Y, or Z, but

1:25:19 Whisper flow. Oh God, I love it. Yeah. So using Whisperflow as a data dump. I wish I was you may you may have recommended this to me, I can't recall, but Yeah. Basically doing a dump of a conversation as I'm walking with Whisperflow. Yeah. Into

1:25:35 A note. On my phone. Then taking that, dropping into Claude, asking it to like clean it up and turn it into something readable. has been so helpful, not necessarily for publication, but for emails, especially uncomfortable emails. You're like, oh God. Like I just like I'm putting it off, I'm procrastinating'cause I don't do it.

1:25:54 Just doing like a 10 minute brain dump, it's shocking how quickly things come together. Like I incredibly helpful. And I'll just give a shout out to My friend Alon Lee, co-founder of Exploding Kittens, he recommended this headset. Cause I was on a call with him. I'm like, man, that audio is awesome. What are you using? Can you put it on just for the viewers? Yeah, I will. It's gonna look as good as I hope it does. It looks so good. Yeah. It's pretty good, right? So this is the Shocks S H O K Z Open meat U C open ear bone conduction headset. So He was talking and I'm like, What the hell are you wearing? I was like audio's really good. So it looks pretty dorky. This is like a No, it's great. And the bone conduction.

1:26:35 is right here, effectively my cheekbones. When you first use them, you're like, wait a second, I feel like this is playing out of speakers. Like this is nonsense. This is complete BS. But then you totally plug your ears and you can still hear perfectly well. Which is crazy. And what I like about these A the audio quality's great. You know, the connectivity varies, but The audio quality was fantastic. You can hear

1:26:58 So if I'm like walking my dog, walking Molly. And I wanna be able to hear traffic and so on. I can use this'cause I especially if I'm Using Whisperflow to data dump. Into a text file.

1:27:10 Of some type. I don't really need to be listening. It's not like I'm on a phone call or a Zoom call or something. So I find this very, very helpful so that I can actually pay attention to my surroundings. And uh that's all I got. It's basically this and AirPods. I mean there there are other headphones that I will use for professional recording and stuff. But Thus far I'll I'll share one more tech thing real quick. This little baggie here.

1:27:33 is the Sennheiser Pro Audio Condenser Microphone. It's Very simple. I've just been very impressed with the audio when I'm on the road recording stuff for the podcast, like intro or sponsor reads or whatever. It's just a simple lav, Mike. It's so simple, but the audio quality Even in a hotel room that is really bouncy. Lots of glass, lots of metal, where it should sound terrible.

1:27:57 If I use a fancy Like this is a sure mic that we have right here. If I were to use this exact mic,'cause I have it at home. Yep. In some of these bouncy rooms. It would sound worse, I'm not kidding, than what I get for my purposes with this. It's pretty wild. And I love Shore. I use their mics

1:28:16 On a lot of podcasts, but in terms of minimizing bounce, yeah, for whatever reason, this little baggy. that I can stick in a pocket, right? It's like this is my portable Yeah. Sort of. Recording studio. Have you recorded on the iPhone with it?

1:28:31 I have. It sounds good. It sounds great. That's amazing. And I don't have my phone with me. There is An app that you can use for really high fidelity recording. It's called Like Ferrite or something like that. It's like lossless recording, right? Lossess recording. It's like F E R I T E. Something like that. I'll put the link in the show notes.

1:28:51 for this for people who are interested. The quality is absurd. And you can also use D Script or one of these programs to do AI Clean up. And it's

1:29:01 Crazy. Yeah, you didn't need to need the script anymore. Like you didn't just use All the models do it. Gemini's actually quite good at uh at multi modal Audio video, all that stuff. Oh, cool. Yeah, Jim and I honestly I've been using

1:29:15 Gemini more and more just because it's such plug and play with fast with with G Suite. Also. Yeah, I mean three five flash like is a great model. Although the new sonnet just came out, that's uh from Anthropic that just came out and that's I haven't played with it yet'cause it was Newly launched today. supposed to be fantastic. So what do you what do you think the landscape looks like in a few years? You got Anthropic and Open AI eracing to IPO. See where that goes. You've got Mythos slash fable taken off. Mythos is out tomorrow. Right. Back out tomorrow. Right. Okay. Was a national security threat yesterday, but it isn't today. Exactly. What do you think? I think the it's a big three.

1:29:50 It's three players. Okay, Google, Anthropic, and open AI. Mm-hmm. And X is trying and I wouldn't I would never ever Count out Elon. Like uh obviously like He has the funds to make it happen.

1:30:03 Well also Anthropic and Google are buying excess capacity from Colossus, right? Yeah, but that means that they're Product isn't working. Yeah. Because they bought that capacity for themselves. Right. So that means that no one's using rock, you know. I mean I I actually like Rock. I they they have done

1:30:19 I use Scrock more than people might realize. Well here's what's interesting about it. For current events and synthesizers. Yes. So the they has direct access to the X API and that it has actually X tools built into Grox. So if you want to like get Like you said, current events, news, things like that. And they've also said that it it is one of the most grounded models and doesn't hallucinate.

1:30:39 So that it's really Good at? And so on Dig, when we relaunch it and we use a lot of AI to kind of like come up with the different stories and all that. We use it a ton because we want that grounded information that is true. And so it's really important to have that night.

1:30:54 I don't know. I mean I think I wouldn't count them out. I should probably include them in that list. All right, so big three Yeah. What do you think things look like in two years? You're very good at this. I'm not saying obviously this is just fucking bullshitting and speculating, but What's your guess? I mean pretty heavy into Alphabet thanks to you. Which uh heavy in the alphabet? Yeah. Yeah. I mean like but and then they had a forty percent pop on a four trillion dollar company.

1:31:20 What is going on? I mean I have him watched. Is it up? Well, I mean this is this is a while back. While back in AI time, which is like dog years. So by that I mean like five months ago. Yeah, I I I listen exactly. Five months is like ten years now. So Here is why I like Google.

1:31:39 They own the full stack. Yeah. They have their own ships. Yeah. And so One of the things that I did a deep dive on was The chips that they are building

1:31:48 They Really confused the industry. It's my understanding that They made an insanely high bandwidth and kind of memory throughput when everyone was like Hey, why are you opening up these channels and making them so high bandwidth for this kind of like data flow?

1:32:02 And I talked to a buddy and he was like, Yeah, everyone was confused at first when they saw the architecture for their their latest AI chips and then They realize that We live in a world right now where a model drops like Fable goes live tomorrow on Wednesday, right?

1:32:19 And The next open AM model goes live. In two weeks or whatever,'cause they have that rumored one. It's like old software deployment where it was like Model trained released out. Model trained released out. That's the cadence we're on right now.

1:32:34 What Google is betting, and I know I know they're all thinking this, but what Google is betting with this high throughput kind of wide Memory architecture is The future is continuous learning. And so everyone is saying like we're twelve to eighteen months out, maybe a little bit longer. From self improving models. I see, yeah. So twenty four seven, it's not no longer about like

1:32:57 Oh, Mythos came out today. Woo crazy. It's not about those new models dropping, it's about a child learning day by day. It'll be better than today. For forever. And when that happens And they own the full stack, so Google's got the chips.

1:33:12 Granted they're gonna be constrained by TSM C, which is the the only player that's producing I mean there's a few others, Samsung and Micron and a few others, but like T S M C is like the leader. And they're producing I believe they're producing Google's chips as well, but They've got the chips architecture. They've got the models that the engineers

1:33:29 They freaking I mean, they lost a great one like a week ago, but It's crazy how they're paying these engineers. Did you see some of this? It's like A billion dollars like situation. Like it's insane with their paying some of these people to do that. You know, Meta was doing the poach also. Meta, I just don't think they're gonna make it, man.

1:33:46 Yeah. Listen, they have great businesses. Instagram is Phenomenal. They've got these

1:33:52 Fantastic assets. But I just don't think they have The talent to pull off. What these other bigs are pulling off, you know? So w what do you think the

1:34:05 What do the big three look like in two years, do you think? 'Cause like Google has a lot of advantages, like you mentioned. Yeah. I mean also like a vast data center expertise. They have the data centers. They have Android?

1:34:20 Yeah. Which is like sixty some percent of the population or something like that. So They have the install base. I have a hard time believing

1:34:30 That if you believe that AI inference and all the costs associated with AI eventually kinda settles. And it's affordable. And yes, it'll probably be like a Netflix type plan where we're all like, Oh yeah, that's our extra thirty dollars a month to get all the AI shit, whatever. If it's coming on your device and also Google's powering a lot of Apple shit, although Apple has some unique tech.

1:34:53 It's interesting. Apple is kinda coming up. I wouldn't run off Apple either. Apple's another one, but they're probably another couple of years out. I don't know. I mean at the end of the day Formi I'm old enough now to want not want to be like, Hey, this is the 10xer. Like this is interesting. I called on your podcast. I don't know if you know this, but like Four years ago, I was like, dude, NVIDIA's gonna crash it, blah blah blah. There's some been some dumb predictions. We've definitely made some bad ones too. So I'm not gonna say it's been all good, but we've

1:35:20 Called out some stuff. In the world of AI, I don't think it's winner take all. Unless somebody hits some kind of crazy escape velocity that is like truly It's like aware. What do you think just I'm curious,'cause you're you're so much better at this kind of stuff than I am. I'm like good at my dumb little corners here and there, but

1:35:39 You've worked at Google. And you worked on their ill fitted Social. product at one point, right? What was it called? Yeah, I can't remember Google Plus. Plus Google Plus, right? It's horrible. I left right away. Right. and very wisely segue to Google Ventures. I guess my point is like when people think

1:35:56 Consumer. Not enterprise. When they think AI right now, they think chat GPT. Right. Yeah. Chat GPT has raised a ton of fucking money. Yeah. They've got to figure out ads, almost certainly. Yeah. That's not easy. That is very, very, very hard to do. It's not like I'm pretty familiar with the ads business at Google. Very hard to do at a high level.

1:36:15 However. When Average Joe or Jane on the street thinks AI, they think chat GPT. And when I have tried to set up the Gmail API for Claude?

1:36:26 The process on the Google side is such dog shit. Like the UX is Terrible. Like it is so bad. Yeah. And I'd like to think myself reasonably decent with tech stuff, not as technical as you are. But pretty good, I would like to think. Nonetheless, I need someone like on my staff to walk me through step by step to do it because it's so counterintuitive and there are errors all over the place.

1:36:50 And then you've got You know, anthropic which is If we are to believe the headlines. On A R just like crushing right on the enterprise side. Like the fastest scaling business of all time. Yeah. But on a lot of different measures.

1:37:03 However They've gotten a number of Pretty strong bitch slaps from the administration. At the same time. It seems

1:37:13 unlikely that any of these frontier labs are gonna be left unconstrained by the government. Right. So that's like a huge question. Uh I think Channel will push that. Okay, tell me. Well, so China's been launching new models and they just did one at like a a week ago that is on par with uh Fable and The Was that Alibaba or someone else? No, it's it's uh But these are open source models. So it's actually really interesting because China is like, Okay, listen, we're gonna open source this.

1:37:41 And People will use our tech. They're almost doing it the American way. Yeah. Like they're not close sourcing anything. They're like, Okay, here's the free model. Come use ours because we're gonna charge you you can run it yourself if you want locally. Mm-hmm.

1:37:58 That is gonna be increasingly I Think That will be increasingly common. Like AMD came out, I don't know if you saw what she uh the CEO, she's

1:38:07 Brilliant. She came out with this new box. That is this like little four thousand dollar box or somewhere around there. And it can run like these massive multi billion parameter models locally. And so those charges that you were getting

1:38:21 Yeah. For you know, like a thousand dollars a month or five thousand dollars a month or whatever in AI expenses. Is now just that one box that just runs the model locally. Now granted It's probably

1:38:31 eight months behind in terms of like the model it can run versus for a lot of people who cares. You know, and so I so what do you think from a business perspective. Yeah. And I know that's tightly related to all sorts of technical considerations, but Where do you think

1:38:50 Google I still hate saying alphabet. Let's just say Google. The word on the street is that they have models that are more advanced than Fable. They have not launched them. Because one, the government's gonna step in and stop them. Yeah. And two, they are very expensive to run. Yep. And It would cost them a lot of money. They would lose money doing so. And so I

1:39:12 Think In a year we're really like twelve months will be we'll won't really know where Google's at. I'm telling you, shit back. And it's King Google. Like you don't understand.

1:39:24 My time there I walked like Sergey took me and I'm not saying this is a flex, I'm just like Sergey took me and Bill Maris, um, who ran Google Ventures through Bill's amazing. Google X. And this was years ago. Yeah, and he was like That's the moonshot factor. It's like, dude, you already work there and like they make you sign shit when you walk in, like don't fucking say anything about it. Google X is like the Willy Wonka.

1:39:49 So I'm like seeing the Waymo's before they even talked about them like Freaking ten plus years ago, you know, like before it was even a thing. And so I saw all the Crazy Bloom projects and a couple of those the shutter that I can't even talk about, but I'm telling you, there's something on tech that's like five years out that like Don't underestimate how many

1:40:09 Freaking PhDs they have working on this shit. Yeah. Like you just can't Imagine what's under the hood there. Sure. Like it's just So For me, I'm not a fan of like at this point when I think about investing into the future, and this is not investment advice. When

1:40:25 The anthropics and the open AIs and the Googles, like you name the top five. It's kinda almost like what they said back in the day when they had the acronym they use for like Netflix, Google, what was the Uh changes all the time. But you know I'm talking about Fang was a thing and then there's another one, there's another one. You're gonna want to own like those five. And you'll sit back and you'll be like, Damn, if I'd only just own Google, I'd be up like seventy percent. But you're like, Oh, you know what? In combination, I'm up like thirty percent, the market's doing ten.

1:40:53 You'll be stoked, right? Yeah, you sent me a graph. We can delete this if we need to. Yes. Yeah. So I mean, if for you looking forward, right,'cause you bust my balls about some of the swings that I take, which is is good. You should show you should bust my balls. I bust it because I'm like, Tim, what are you optimizing for, dude? Another zero, you don't need another zero. I get it, I get it, I get it. But I'm asking you. Yeah. Right. I mean look. We're all looking for the feeling of being alive. Part of the way I feel alive is by taking s swings, right? Yeah. My question for you is No, it's gonna do SP five hundred.

1:41:27 I find that hard to believe. I dabble. Okay. So if you were you, I I bought Waymo stock and you got pissed at me because I didn't offer you any. Such a prick. Keeps all the the shiny stuff for himself. I didn't know you wanted it. Oh you a hundred percent know that I want it because I said This was actually turned out pretty well. It's part of the reason why I I pulled the trigger on Google was such a simple approach. I took Five names, was it? It was like Google, Anthropic, OpenAI, Waymo. Handful of other companies.

1:42:03 And There's Verseau, Crusoe, a couple of others. Damn it. And and I sent this list out. Yeah and I sent it to like I don't know. Five smart people I know who are very, very good investors, have good track records, cross asset classes.

1:42:18 And a few of them sent that to like their technical analysts who specialize in different fields. And I was like, Yeah. But but I was like Ah, maybe, maybe not. And I was like, You have ten ships. Where do you put those 10 chips is about that's it. No further guidance, no caveats, no explanation. And Look, I'm not saying this is the most sophisticated investment thesis in the world, but

1:42:39 You know that I want a Waymo'cause it was on that list and it was one of the winners that came back in terms of if we are to believe the consensus of this small cohort. Be fair, I offered you some of my own purchase and you I may I may I may take still take it up on it. Saw the news. I would love to revisit our conversation from earlier. But uh I think for the average person listening, like the good news is that these companies are going out soon. Yeah. Like meaning they're gonna be publicly trading. They may seem very expensive and very pricey, and you'd be right to say that. And so did Amazon when it went out in two thousand, you know? I mean, what was the market cap on Amazon? I pay it. It was it was like it's gotta be tiny. No, but no no no. Well here you know, but it's not about mark gap, it's about price earnings, right? Yeah, okay, all right. So I I looked at

1:43:30 The price now price to earnings will depend a lot. I mean, it's gonna be very different for open AI and Anthropic, right? Well crazy is like SpaceX is like thirty percent bump on price earnings on the peak of Amazon. So like SpaceX is like Did you invest in SpaceX or no? No. Yeah, I started investing in SpaceX like ten, twelve years ago. Uh I mean look, yeah, I'm fine. But

1:43:51 You know, I would say here also it's like if you're like oh I missed it because only the fancy people get to invest beforehand, it's like no, I mean uh SpaceX right now I'm looking at the chart Launched it. Sixty. A hundred and sixty, excuse me. Like had this huge bump, obviously, but then drop down and like you could have bought it for a hundred and fifty six, hundred and fifty four, hundred and fifty three. And now it's climbing back up. I mean, there's a lot going on here and honestly I still find public

1:44:17 Equity investing terrifying'cause there's so many sharks and there's short sellers and like derivatives and all this craziness going on. Like what happens when it's Listed and put into these indexes and blah blah blah. Like all those dynamics are way beyond my point. I don't I don't do the dates for anything. I don't do day training. No, I'm just saying like, for example SpaceX. I don't have a position in SpaceX, but if I did

1:44:38 It would be to hold for the next ten years. Here's a good takeaway. You're asking like what's the takeaway from like my twenty year analysis of the angel investing. It's still incomplete. Like there's a lot left to do and Shopify. Oh God. Well, that's a good example, right? It's like This is gonna sound so

1:44:55 Dumb and yeah, duh to so many people who are more Um Just better investors than I am. But yeah, I've I mean I've done pretty well. I think the decisions I made at the time to sell certain things were very logical, given the information and My financial status at the time.

1:45:12 Totally reasonable. So I don't wanna judge a good poker play. Based on like where I am. twenty years hence. That's not reasonable. But The takeaway is like you gotta let your winners run as long as possible. And I've lost more money not by selling stocks early than I've ever

1:45:29 Probably made. buying the original stock. And the other thing I would say also for people listening who are like, Oh my God, if these one percenters are jerking each other off any longer, I'm gonna vomit. If you adjust and some very famous firm did this, maybe it was Sequoia or Benchmark, I can't recall, but They looked at their gains from

1:45:50 initial investment all the way through follow on rounds to IPO. And then six months. Post so after lock up for Let's just keep it simple for all intents and purposes. And then they looked at what you would have gained if you bought at IPO and just held for like ten years.

1:46:06 And you would have made as much or more if you just bought as a retail investor. That is the silver lining here, which is I for some reason get fed all a lot of these Instagram videos. And two of them that you're on Instagram so much. You send so many. You do. So the the the interesting thing about it is So many times as individuals and I've fallen into this trap as well, which is You find something that you love and you buy said object when you should actually buy the company.

1:46:36 Yeah. So let's just pretend you're gonna spend five hundred dollars on an iPhone every year since it came out, right? Yeah. And the there was this great woman that came in and she was like, Okay Had you just for the first four years of the iPhone coming out, rather than buy an iPhone, put it into Apple. Just put it into Apple. That's so cool. And it was like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yeah. And my buddy It's sadly like I love you, Prager. David Prager

1:46:58 The second the Tesla came out Not the the first one, but the the one that was consumer friendly, you know? He went on, he's like, he had me a little money and he's like, You know what? I'm gonna do it on splurge. I'm gonna deck it out.

1:47:10 a hundred grand on this thing and he got the freaking top line Tesla. We did the math for him because we're bastards. And it it was like Fifteen million dollars or something like that. Had he just invested in Tesla. The second he loved the product. The moral of the story is if you love something, and this is gonna happen over and over again for decades to come. If you're like, hey, Claud is my shit.

1:47:35 I use it every single day. I think it's great because of X, Y, and Z. And they go public. Like set it and forget it. Come in, whatever you can afford. I don't care if it's a hundred dollars. Or a thousand dollars or a hundred thousand dollars. It's meaningful at the end of the day.

1:47:48 That's my right. It's great advice. I mean look That's part of the reason and I have gotten so much shit from this by some VCs, I won't mention their names, who are just like, What? Because they've got their like thirty slide are proprietary investment thesis shit that they show pension funds and stuff. Right and I'm like I just try to invest in stuff that I will use every day. Yeah. Right. And it's not true for everything, like commonwealth fusion systems. All right. I'm not using them every day, but SpaceX. You know, I mean outside of Starlink, but it's like

1:48:16 There are exceptions, but it's like with something like this, right, where it's like I am Eating. close to half of my protein calories every day of this stuff and I'm like I should just invest in the company. That is what makes sense. You know the first stock I ever bought?

1:48:32 This is when I was like Dillonics. Tell the dildonics. Can't go wrong. Yeah, well that'll be another random show. It was Pixar.

1:48:47 Oh shit. Yeah, my dad bought me some book on stock investing. Honestly, I couldn't make any sense of it because it was getting into like price earning and this and that earning per share and I was like, ah, I don't really understand this. But you do like That's cool. It's cool. It's cool. It was his way of like showing love, you know? Like we can't all do it the way necessarily people want to receive it. But in any case The point of that was I loved comics. I tracked

1:49:15 Comics and animation. And I saw Toy Story. Number one. I even saw shorts and I was like That is the future. That's amazing. I know that's the future. Exactly. And When I was whatever, fifteen or something, first stock.

1:49:29 Pixar I have the I have the original like shareholder poster they mailed out. Like Laster and jobs and stuff. Oh dude, that's amazing. Yeah. And For me it's like look at your credit card statement. Do you know what I mean? I mean this is not investment advice. I'm just saying this is the way I personally approach it, so Informational. purposes only, but it's like, yeah, if you're spending hundreds of dollars on like

1:49:54 Amazon and Amazon Prime. It's like well. Maybe. Who knows? Totally. You know? Are you gonna be spending more or less on that in five years? Like just Forget about the market. Forget about

1:50:04 Analysts like you personally. Will you be spending more or less on this in three or five years' time? That's exactly right. Okay. And we'll pop to put something in the intro on this is not investment advice, but it's like it does this stuff, you don't need to be A quant hedge fund manager. And to be fair, like when you look at Buffett's portfolio and the things that he's bought over years, like it's the consumer staples and the things that were just like He's like, yes, more people will want and drink Coca-Cola.

1:50:31 In the future. It's a fantastic brand. The margins are impeccable. Like it's a well run business. I know the CEO. It's like prone to disruption. Yeah, exactly. In downturns, guess what? People still drink Coke. Yeah. You know, it's he's also a clever bastard, though. He's been very good. with his shock's grandpa branding. He's very good at that, but that dude is a stone call killer in terms of Geico as cash machine and being like the lender of first resort when shit's gone sideways. People call Uncle Buffett and he's like Sure.

1:51:03 Here's my offer. Take or leave. But yes, very bright guy. All right. What have we missed? Uh I the only thing I would say is that Tell Dodonics. He has that. If you want to learn about the latest tech and AI news, I relaunched Dig.

1:51:19 Uh you're showing me some numbers. That's crazy. It's crazy. We've we've got like we went from twenty thousand people a week using it to now we've Close to five hundred thousand. So it's been growing quite a bit and it's pulling across the entire zeitgeist of the web. We don't want to start another social network. So we pull from X, we pull from a few other feeds and we'll be putting in like

1:51:38 Videos from YouTube and TikTok and others and It's just been a fun little hobby. It's a fun hobby. And it's like doing millions of pages a month and I'm proud of that. It's like it's awesome to see it working again. So yeah, it's good. D I G G dot com. D I G G dot com at Kevin Rose on Instagram and uh yeah. Sweet. What should I say? I guess Tim Dotblog you can find thousand plus blog posts. If you wanna read about my cadaver on the table, my book sales as a result of AI, that is a crazy blog post.

1:52:05 I don't even know if you were aware of this. Oh yeah, my uh All format book sales. Oh I saw that. Yeah, isn't it crazy? Down. Well, you look at the graph and it's like stable annuity, stable annuity, stable annuity. Very predictable. And then in two thousand thirteen, because what happened in November twenty twenty two? Chat GPT three point five. And you see a slip by

1:52:27 Negative five percent. Then you see a slip by like I'm making up these numbers, but they're close. Negative twenty eight percent. Then it's like negative forty nine percent. But it turns out you're gonna be okay. I'll be fine. The implications are pretty interesting. And and now If we continue the pace in twenty twenty six down like sixty seven percent. These are shit. These are sort of compounding in the wrong direction, right? It's not the quite the right terminology to use, but you get it.

1:52:52 So it's stuff to think about. People can Check that out. If you search AI nonfiction, Tim Ferris. That's a blog post that's actually pretty Interesting read. But on on a less dystopian view, ultimately the message isn't dystopian.

1:53:04 Tim Dot Blog. At Tim Ferris on Instagram at T Ferris, T F E R I S on Twitter. But like honestly I'm not so active on the socials'cause I've deleted those from my phone for a couple of years. You're listening to the podcast, so I don't have to sell the podcast. Oh, Five O Friday. My diary. Can you add one?

1:53:22 Can I add one what? Six bullets. Well every once in a while if I'm lazy, there are I tell you. No, if I'm lazy and I'm like, ah, I don't want to do it. Cause I still I still do this thing myself. Hold on one sec. We're almost done. Relax. And you and your prostate. No, no, it's not the prostate. It's the fact that we had you give me tequila. Oh, I gave you tequila. You were overserved. Hold on a second. Just give me two fucking seconds, you old man. So I'm not gonna make this really long. No So yeah, five bullet Friday every once in a while, you did this yourself turns into six bullet Saturday if I'm just not feeling it. But yeah, two million subscribers, it's free. Easy to unsubscribe. Tim dot blog slash Friday and that's that's all I got. All right. You wanna go PO man? Yeah, I will. Alright, good to see you, but see it. Love you, brother. Love you too.

1:54:09 Hey guys, this is Tim again, just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kinda like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading. albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcasts. guests and these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun again it's very short a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend something to think about. If you'd like to try it out

1:55:08 Just go to Tim.blog slash Friday. Type that into your browser. Tim dot blog slash. Friday, drop in your email, and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening. Lately navigating the financial landscape can feel like a full-time job, and it's not a very fun full-time job. It's stressful, but it does not have to be that way. You can simplify. Wealthfront helps you tune out the noise and earn more on every dollar with sophisticated easy to use products like their cash account. You get fee-free instant withdrawals to eligible accounts. And when you're ready to invest, transferring to their expert built investing accounts is simple. For a limited time, my listeners can earn up to 4.30% variable APY

1:55:49 On cash. What that means is on top of the 3.3 base APY from program banks, new cash account clients get an exclusive three-month 0.75% API boost on up to$150,000. Then they get another 0.25% API increase by direct depositing$1,000 a month and maintaining a funded investing account. terms and conditions apply. More than a million people trust Wealthfront. Check them out. Go to wealthfront.com slash Tim to claim your boost. That's wealthfront.com slash Tim. This is a paid endorsement of Wealthfront. Client experiences vary. Wealthfront Brokerage isn't a bank. Base APY as of January 30th, 2026, and subject to change. Details in the episode description. Longtime listeners know how important privacy is to me. In fact, my friends would call me

1:56:38 Paranoid or they used to call me paranoid. And now they think I was just pressured in a sense. These days, you may have noticed it is a lot harder to protect privacy. Anyone can find your information with a quick search. It's shockingly easy and I've had friends and paid people to red team me to try to find my info. And uh what you'll notice is that shadowy data brokers quietly collect and trade your home address, phone, family members, and more. It's a mess. You have to have a plan for defense. And you can fight back with Incogni. That's I-N-C-O-G-N-I. Incogni automatically removes your information across 420 plus data brokers with 1,000 plus additional sites covered in their unlimited plan, and they keep it scrubbed. automatically. Deloitte has independently verified the headline numbers.

1:57:28 In other words, 245 million plus removal requests. And the company adheres to strict security standards with an A plus rating from the Better Business Bureau. And with their unlimited plan, if you find your info on a site they don't monitor, send them a link and their privacy team will handle it. Go to incogni.com slash Tim, I-N-C-O-G-N-I.com slash Tim and use code Tim at checkout. to get sixty percent off of an annual plan. One more time at Incogni.com slash Yeah.

What you see above is a preview of the first minutes. One unlock costs 10 credits and covers this episode forever: full segment and word-level timestamps on this page, plus .txt, .srt, .vtt and word-level JSON downloads, as many times as you like.