Transcript

How to balance a two-sided marketplace, with Care.com CEO Brad Wilson

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0:53 Hey folks, Jeff Berman here. I am thrilled to share some of the new names who will be joining us at this year's Masters of Scale summit. This may be our biggest stage yet. Reed Hastings, Meredith Whitaker, Van Jones, Amjad Masad, and more. Will be there with us October 20th through 22nd in San Francisco. If you're building something great, or you want to build something great, We want you there with us too.

1:20 Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. You know, at the end of the day, these people are here to serve and and help your family and other families, and we want to make sure that they get the best and most fair pay. It it may not be obvious, even for the people who are hiring the caregiver. You do have other care things in the home that you're already

1:44 likely paying money for home care and housekeeping is one many people have pets, 70 million people have pets in this country. And so I can assure you most of those caregivers would love to take some of those duties on because again, it it prevents them from having to figure out the scheduling and the the calendar Tetris of going to other locations and they can actually earn those wages in the home. So it's it's actually a way for families in most instances to keep the cost down. This is Masters of Scale. I'm Jeff Furman, your host this week on the show, Brad Wilson. Brad is the CEO of Care.com. That's the digital marketplace that connects caregiving professionals with people who need help with kids, seniors, pets, and more. With more than 45 million people on the platform, it is the market leader in an area where the need is constantly growing. We talked with Brad about how companies can create more loyal employees by supporting caregiving.

2:39 why the future of work needs to be flexible, how he's leading through transformational technology change at the company, and how some very difficult circumstances in his personal life. Have informed and inspired his commitment to care's profound mission. Crad, welcome to Masters of Scale. Thank you for having me, Jeff. I'm thrilled to have you. Um I I just want to start by acknowledging uh on a personal note, I'm so sorry to to learn that you lost your wife. Um I know that you stepped in to lead care when your wife was sick. Um, and I'm I'm just curious kind of how that came to pass and how your personal and professional lives

3:24 um came together in that moment. Yeah. Well I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. And um uh Yeah, it was an interesting time. You know, we this was back in twenty three. in January w when I s first started talking about the role with IC and Barry and Joey and company and You know, I'd I'd followed Care dot com for years. Uh marketplaces are only so many at scale and You know, for me, I've done twenty five years in consumer brands and so I gotta I have a little bit of pattern recognition on on on what I think ticks.

3:56 And it's a brand I always loved. And, you know, when I looked at it Just professionally. I saw a great brand. I saw a clear market leader with the largest carryover pool and supply, which is extremely important when you run these companies. And

4:11 You know, and we're we're still on this journey today, if we're being honest. It wasn't a great experience. And so when I took a look at things that I thought I could be Good at. and influence and help improve. This was a this was a great fit. It just so happened at the time, too, as I was interviewing, we learned of my wife's diagnosis. And We started to go through it.

4:33 And care became a part of our story too because I needed that help. This is a deeply important mission uh for me personally. I'm living it today. I'm a single parent. I have three wonderful children. I have a great support system, which we all need as well. But I also go through what a lot of parents uh and communities go through today and I'm trying to stitch together.

4:53 my own care community, uh, to make make our family go and go to all the activities and events and make sure that we can show up for work and do great jobs and serve and be a part of our communities. A lot of people who are of our generation are are very much in the sandwich generation moment. I'm just Yeah. Curious as you look at the the the trends both nationally and globally. Um

5:16 H how you think about the mission of Care.com and the problems that you're solving. Um And the scale at which they have to be solved. You know, we view our vision as number one, we want to help families find the care they need. Most families have. four carrot cages in the home. And you know, whether that's senior care, pet care, child care, home care, even tutoring, camps and activities, et cetera. So there's a lot that families are working to stitch together. The other thing is we really believe we have to be a leading advocate for families.

5:49 and caregivers. And you know, there's a lot uh that families go through today to to bring the cost of care down But the reality is our caregivers aren't making it up either. So that's a very tricky equation. You know, just to give you a little bit of of what families are facing, it's it's a very overwhelming And stressful time. I mean, you know, work is more demanding than ever. You have most families, the cost of care uh twenty percent.

6:14 of income goes out to child care related expenses. And if you're dealing with senior care and other care uh pieces. That escalates to about forty percent. Ninety percent of people report losing sleep. uh eighty-nine percent uh report feeling burnt out and they really, really want

6:33 enterprise and or some federal support. for you know, by the way of tax credits to help ease the burden of this cost of care. We enjoy about seven hundred corporate relationships today and we're finding more and more that companies are coming to us because Their employees need that support. employers are happy to give it because they know that if that support is right

6:55 They find happier employees, they'll stay longer, they're much more loyal to the company. And so we enjoy both aspects of that equation. I'm just curious as as you look at your team, especially in in that in the non technical side or even the technical side of the prioritization, how is the nature of work changing at at care? Yeah. Yeah. I I I'd put it maybe in two, if not three buckets. So one is the I'll call it the mundane tasks. Not every engineer likes to debug their own code. So I think AI can do a lot of that for you today. We do get a lot of people call in because we don't always get it right. But all of a sudden now sifting through the notes and the cases and actually looking through the experience to see What can be what can we learn that can actually serve that customer better and fix that problem right away? It's not a hundred percent AI.

7:39 But that's there's there's a lot of assistance that helps gather the information and even make a recommendation to the agent. but there's still a lot of research that has to happen behind the scenes at times. So we have this concierge platform as an example where people call in And there's there's hundreds of use cases.

7:58 But one of which may be a How do I think about getting my aging loved one into a facility or an in-home caregiver? How do I pay for it? what happens in the first three weeks. And so we put together these tailored personalized plans, so research

8:12 for those cases used to be very manual, very hourly intensive. And now a lot of our researchers and masters level social workers They can rely on AI and reduce days into hours. So that's just one example. On the point of a two sided marketplace and in particular where um you have a tension between serving both sides, right? You want to not only provide the highest quality caregiver and care for your your family customers um at the best price possible, but you want to get the the care provider The best job at at the best price possible. Right. There's a tension there. H how how do you balance that tension in particular in this kind of a two sided marketplace? I'll take you back two years ago.

8:53 When I joined, a lot of the new management team joined, um, you know, you had you had a product, frankly, that was it was it was quite tough when you measure it by any kind of marketplace metric. So I always think about conversion, so meaning what what how many people are actually willing to pay you and a lot of time that comes through Did you match it? Mat match them to the right caregiver and home. And that rate, let's just call it was um

9:17 far lower than you would typically see from marketplaces. And and and we were seeing that drop off at the match point, or were you seeing it earlier in the in the process? It's a freemium product. So so you you're you're allowed to post for free. And we charge at the point of access to communication. And so, you know, most marketplaces I always say convert between two and six percent. We were South of the two percent number. The second thing is uh responsiveness in the messaging.

9:43 And let's just say that that number was uh astonishingly low. And then that leads us to kind of a match rate, but all those metrics were were substandard. And uh then to your point on the tension on the caregiver side, you know, when we got it right. They're happy, they're great, but the reality is we weren't getting right a lot. And the piece we really have to solve for, which is tricky, is to your point, is you gotta you gotta keep the cost low for the family.

10:09 And you gotta get w uh wages. higher. And that's a very complex uh thing to solve. And you really can't do it. uh fully without some again, I think there needs to be subsidy from

10:21 uh the government uh and or and mostly enterprise. And that's where we've seen a lot of benefit because enterprise has come in and help taking care of those costs for families and some of the recent legislation too with uh the one big beautiful bill and 45 F have lifted the tax credits for companies and care given related expenses. I go back to Most families have four care occasions in the home. They all stitch together. Things from pet.

10:46 to housekeeping to seniors. And if you think about most caregivers, and mine's a great example. The they'll they they'd prefer to do as much as they can because it saves from the driving and going to different jobs. Which therefore can lift the wages and and the well being and really what you can make in that particular household without having all the stress of going to multiple places. The enterprise side of the business. And the consumer b side were in in in in part because both were scaling.

11:14 They were a bit separate. And federated. So I think what we've tried to do is really say One brand, one team. We also want to create what we're calling this ubiquitous care platform. So the way we think about that is

11:25 Rather than having separate supply serving the enterprise side and the consumer side. Which it did. Oh wow. We're now merging that supply and thinking about other forms of supply like locations. We want one common delivery type uh platform. So we're not shipping eight different things. So we want that efficiency. Because it's complicated. You're selling into HR, you're selling into finance. Yes. Not channels that generally have the the budgets for the the bigger spend. So what what's working for you there? Yeah. So generally we we make money three ways and serve our clients in three ways. One is uh backup

11:58 So most companies will come in and say Hey, we want all of our employees to have fifteen backup care days for when their primary care uh falls through. I can tell you, uh I've had a caregiver, a lovely caregiver. it she's needed three days off in the past month and we all need it. So it's it's a great benefit for employees and for those companies. And they and they do find it um as a vessel for I I I call it well being because people are more loyal and they're just they have the the stress relieved of knowing

12:28 I have a safety net here. So back up here is one way. The other way is through our care concierge. So this is a service where we have masters level social workers. And we get people calling in from everything from I just need parental guidance. How do I think about getting my my father into a senior assistant living facility?

12:48 legal guidance, uh there's a whole gamut of things. And then the third way is our digital membership. And so you you mentioned small businesses as as an example. Not every company can can afford a backup care program. So Perhaps we can just give them the digital membership at a reduced or wholesale rate and help them find that caregiver. And are the enterprise customers I mean I have to imagine that they on some level can understand that if their team members have better support for the care that they need to provide or they need help providing, they're gonna be better team members. They're gonna be more engaged, they're gonna be happier. We have a lot of data, they're more loyal, they'll stay longer. In fact, when they when they don't have the benefit uh our future of benefits report, uh, we see that

13:32 there's often a very high burnout factor and there's a little bit of um disdain for the company they're working for. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There's gonna be two types of companies. Those are great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Calyubi.

13:56 And on my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. and we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show.

14:30 Because every Friday we release a second rapid response exclusively in the rapid response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there. twenty five ish years in in consumer, largely in tech, largely in marketplaces. Um what what drew you to the space to begin with? Business school in gosh, ninety nine, two thousand one. Now we're now we're really dating ourselves. And uh just so happened this thing called the internet was burgeoning and I was I was just super interested

15:20 And the technology. And uh, you know, I was in Dallas, Texas. I graduated from the Cock School business at SMU and Everyone was doing oil and gas or going to their investment banking jobs and I just said yeah I'm I'm I'm very interested in that. I wanna wanna get into that. And lo and behold, I got uh I was lucky enough to get into match.com, which was an IC company at the time.

15:41 in Dallas. And so you very quickly economics. I mean at the time to, you know, you learn Consumer behavior very fast, unlike we'd ever learned it before. I was very fortunate to to learn And study from great leaders. And so at the time, you know, we had Tim Sullivan, our CEO, I felt was a great leader. Over time I got

16:01 Got to Expedia and you know was fairly close to the Dark Hazard Shahi. I really worked under Aman Bhutani, who was just a fabulous CEO at GoDaddy. And then ultimately through through HBO Max and Warner Media, Jason Kyler and eighty four cell, just incredible men and leaders. But at the end of the day, you know, I always I always this is what I tell our team is You have to deliver. Delight, something I took away from all those leaders.

16:25 Deliver delight. Constantly innovate. What should drive direct to your products and brands. Yeah, you mentioned Jason Kyler. I don't I don't know if he coined the term. I always give him credit for it because he's the first person I heard it from, which is this term automatically. Um where where like it it it it feels like magic and it's just happening in the background and it it delayed. I don't know um if I've heard him say that yeah uh back in the Hulu days. That's uh that's that's where I heard him say it. Um what lessons did you learn from that era that you're applying to an era where um Google is uh really being meaningfully displaced by um

17:00 uh by AI search, effectively, or or a Gentic search is feels like what's coming. How are you preparing for that future, given given what you learned in that time? Everyone in our company we we're measured on delight. Literally. I mean it it is We try to drive it through the organization. We're not perfect. We're we're we're far from where we need to be. But we want to build experiences where people know us. They can trust us and they're gonna come to us directly.

17:23 But I th I think first and foremost is How we go to market. And For Care.com in the past, it was a lot of the old traditional ways, is you would put some things on TV Mm.

17:36 But with AI being uh having a huge disruptive effect in in search. We're really trying to make sure that we are playing and meeting audiences where they're at. Publishing a lot of authoritative

17:51 educational and entertaining content. Whether it's uh distributed through social media and or and or through our own influencers in the company or through anyone else who might find that content interest interesting, pardon. And

18:06 That's that's the way the game's gotta be played now. Everything's so fragmented. Uh second part of that is we we reshaped our brand. Uh we got a fantastic brand leader, Mailing Tan, who reshaped our brand. We really want to go to market that speak to care beyond childcare. Um and care holistically as an emotional ally for our families and and our caregivers. But I I would just say we've completely revamped go to market. I think the second thing is

18:31 We have to make sure. the product is really delivering and works. And in fact, we want to build AI in the product. And then the um the last thing I would I would say is If you think about care on the consumer side, where it was For eighteen years really. It was a

18:48 Mostly it's a transaction experience failed in subscription. And Why do you need a subscription after you find find your match. Right. And so we we've really thought about How do we make these products really work within the lifestyle of what we're trying to do? Again, we want to match first. Then we want to be a part of the entire journey and the way we think about that is before, during, and after the hire.

19:10 And then we want to build a kind of an always on platform, which That's a couple of years out. I'll save that for for th for a later conversation. And it's really hard, but if we get it right. We're gonna do a lot of good in the world. And so That's that's the fun part of about what we're doing every day and and I'm I'm Very privileged. We have an incredible team. When you take a new role and particularly when you take a role leading organ an organization as a GM, as a CEO, um, you know, you

19:35 You kind of think you know what you're getting into, and then you get in there and it's a cover dish and you take that top off and you're like, Why is there cilantro in here? Like this makes no sense. Right. What what surprised you coming into the role? The Sales cycle is a bit longer than I anticipated. And and you know, I th I I knew it was long, but I figured it'd be six to twelve months. But what ends up happening is twelve sometimes becomes eighteen, becomes twenty four, particularly now because

20:02 One of the challenges we're seeing in our country and in many companies is rising health care and dental costs. And so when that happens, care benefits become, you know, we're kind of a one B benefit today. And because they have to meet meet the needs of those rising costs in companies. Sometimes we get just push maybe another half year to a year. So that th those sales cycles have been a little bit more challenging. And then the second thing is is and I and I'm super proud of the team for working through this, but

20:28 When I joined And talk about in the company is you gotta have a great brand, which means you have to deliver. to your customers and in our case both sides of the marketplace.

20:39 But you have to have speed. And I mean Dara and Amon at Expedia did this better than anybody ever saw. And um

20:48 But to have speed you really have to have the testing apparatus is in place, you have to have very clear uh mandate on what you're going after. You have to have total transparency in the culture. And you really have to give people permission to break things and move fast. I knew we were slow. We we were we were we're still Mm.

21:08 And the reason for that was the backend infrastructure. This is probably not uncommon from a lot of these these technology stories. We just had very outdated code. It was very federated. We made the very hard decision early on. And I I said w we're gonna we're gonna pull it all together. We're gonna go through the what I'm calling the infrastructure error. It's gonna be eighteen months to twenty four months of really hard work. We basically took everything commoditized in the back end from

21:33 authentication where you recognize users where they are in the experience and you could provide feature benefits to the package they're in. Messaging payments. uh the entire backend uh trust and safety systems. completely replaced it. And now we're moving into that true transformation era where

21:51 We can do fast Twitch retailing, merchandising and testing. And so we're kind of just now embarking upon that. But I would say that was a little more complex than I originally anticipated. And did Pang off paying down that technical debt. limit your ability to launch new features and new products. Sure. And so yeah, I mean that's gotta be people want to build people want to do those things. Like how did you keep the team motivated and focused around. And driving toward that to get to a place where you could launch the new things. Yeah. I d it it's a fantastic question'cause uh you know, we we we do spend a lot of time thinking about culture and how do you motivate people and we want to we we want this to be a really great place to work and people

22:29 equally excited about the mission as as as we all are. And um I I think what worked for us w was a couple of things. One is we're just constantly in front of our teams, whether it's town halls. bi weekly stand ups and our weekly operational meetings. it was not unclear what we were marching towards and the vision that we were painting for the future. And so I think that was really motivating and enticing.

22:51 The other thing I would say is kind of mid turn of where we were in this first period. We did take a very bold swing on And you go to market. And uh you know, so we we kind of unchiseled that subscription

23:04 We had an access pricing. I will tell you it didn't work particularly well. But I but I found that it was a very hard thing and a big thing for the company to do. Which motivated the the engineers and product people and technical people in ways that that probably hadn't been done in quite some time. And even in the last six months I always tell people This company's had more innovation.

23:25 in the past six and nine months and the prior 18 years combined. And so I think you have to give people these big challenges and big problems to solve together. And I think uh people have been invited in on the mission, maybe in ways that they hadn't before. Yeah, and sometimes it it's paradoxical as it may seem you've to slow down to be able to go fast. We we we had to. I mean it almost every answer I got when I came in on well, why aren't we doing this? Why aren't we doing this? Well, the tech is outdated. The tech is outdated. So We we made the right decision. Uh we're we're we're not fully through it. I don't think you're ever done, but you know, what's promising is now you're in this world where we're all reading about the same things from vibe coding and generative AI. There's the promise of that yeah, it'll it'll eradicate this in short period. And and I actually believe it will. I think we're gonna work our way out of it over the next year. One of the things you inherited coming to the company was uh an FTC investigation that you all settled. Um, I know it happened before you came in and settlement happened on your watch. Um could you just frame up what what happened there and how you led through that? Yes. And and I I'll I will state very plainly, stand on my head, in fact the the FTC attorneys got to know me quite well. Uh

24:32 I I violently disagree with what what they acclaimed. And Um I will I will acknowledge one thing, you know, the the FTC, particularly under Lena Khan, uh I think

24:44 It was a good thing. that we should all want to remove what they call dark patterns on the web where people are being forced or uh coerced to click down a path, maybe to buy something that they didn't want to buy, or it's really hard to cancel. And so One of the three things that the FTC asserted was Our site.

25:04 being a subscription or membership serv service was hard to cancel. Guess what? I agreed with them. And before they that that claim was even there, we already started to change it. It did change it to the point where they actually said You guys are far better than than everyone else. So We were already down that path. We were gonna fix it.

25:20 You know, the the other the other things they asserted were We our jobs are truly jobs. And so there was language on the site that essentially called them job posts. They want us to to change the language around that. There was another piece where they uh challenge that

25:39 the rate that caregivers were making uh were was maybe not fully an accurate depiction of that rate. We don't know how they could have claimed that because that was actual real data that we would get off our transactions on the site. And of course there are people who take those jobs off platform and negotiate their own own rates and deals. So

25:57 You know, for us, we just felt uh with all that we had to uh undertake, as I mentioned earlier. It was better better to settle and and move on and uh probably against my my better wishes and People swage me that that was the right path and and it was the right path. We we worked at the outside council. I it was probably more uh time time investment from me than anyone else, but you know, we really try to keep people focused on the mission of what we were trying to build. Speaking of mission, um you're involved with the World Economic Forum and the future of care globally. How did that come to pass and what's what's the mission there?

26:30 Yeah, so so I I was I was invited on uh very graciously by the World Economic Forum and I was reluctant to join this forum. And in large part because Anytime I I I see these caucuses I worry about a lot of talk, no action.

26:47 And You know, it's it's it's been a good healthy start to the dialogue. I think we're bringing a number of different perspectives and solutions to the table. My role inside of that is I'm one of the few. If maybe even only commercial heads uh that actually run a business. Um so everyone else is uh philosophers or uh you know maybe maybe well studied or professors. Um and so You know, I think for me that what what's attractive of having me aboard is you know, we we see a lot. We have a lot of data. So we can support Um especially when we're across sixteen countries as well in Europe. And so we can support a lot of data that they need.

27:25 to help enhance the dialogue around uh not too dissimilar from what we talk about when we think about solutions. So For us, I think there has to be a technology player or players. That help can help simplify this for caregivers and families. There has to be a pop policy effectuation that helps subsidized care for families and enterprise must play a role. And so for them to understand and see the data on why it's compelling and important.

27:50 And actually how hard it is to get. uh the match effectiveness and get people the proper care they need. That's the role we play uh inside of WEF. And and just uh focusing in on on the US, where we seem hopelessly gridlocked on almost everything. We can't even agree, like is the sky blue or not today. Um Yeah. Th the the need for quality care.

28:13 um across the four vectors that you mentioned. Um it doesn't matter if you are far left, far right, somewhere in the middle, or completely off off the the the spectrum on this. Um Most I I spent four years on Capitol Hill. Most people who who work with companies who might engage with Capital Hill will tell you basically stay stay away until you absolutely have to. Um But it does seem like there's a real opportunity for for care to play a significant role at both the federal and state level in making care more accessible, more affordable, um, higher quality.

28:49 Is that part of the strategy here to proactively engage government and try to make things better for both sides of your marketplace? Yeah. We wanna really advance that agenda, uh, at the federal level. We're also we're also gonna take a look at the state level, too. And um we haven't fully attack that piece. Just yet. But you know, we One of the big things I think when we when we think about this is if you think about how uh the federal government's approach this is They view accessibility and quality.

29:16 Only in the form of Uh center. Mm. And a center is something that they could they can wrap their brain around as as I can go check that location.

29:26 I can validate that they have the right teacher to student ratio. I can validate that it's clean, the safety measures are right. But the reality is more than fifty percent of the country lives in these childcare uh deserts. Yeah. And there's not enough child care in the region, even if it's a dense densely populated area, or there's just nothing by way of the rural population, you have to have in home caregivers as an apparatus to really solve this problem. So that's where we come in. Or seven, eight, nine times larger, depending on the week, uh than any other next provider. Yeah. Is there is there anything happening at the state level that is potentially a model for other states or for for federal where there's been a real

30:03 Real innovation in regulation or legislation. Yeah, well I mean if ne New Mexico, yeah, I don't know if you've you've read they've they've got um you know universal child care, of course. We're all waiting to see what what uh Mr. Mamdani does it does in New York here, but you know what what I would say is like it there's no one single solution here. It's it is such a challenge for families. So when we when we see things like universal childcare, it's really an acknowledgement for us that Yes, this has to be a bit of a infrastructure and education.

30:31 And you know, it's gonna take a lot of different solutions and technology does have to play a part of that. And I think the the thing that we're most optimistic about is uh enterprise and companies truly value it as well. So we're not just relying on government. We do have enterprise players that want to play a part and make sure that they're employees which have families of all kinds.

30:52 Uh also have benefit equity. Brad, from from the data that you have, both qualitative and quantitative, um, what's sort of a non-obvious piece of advice uh for a family who's hiring a caregiver, has engaged a caregiver um to create the best relationship and the best experience they're possible? Oh yeah. Well, I I can give you my personal experience too. A few of them. So so first off, they're looking for consistency. That that's sort of one it may be obvious, but I I I I'm often shocked by the stories I hear around sort of discrepancy and pain. It's usually around the consistency of hours. Which leads me to then say

31:28 Make sure There's a bit of even if informal Contracting. Up front. around what that looks like. Because and you know, and I went through it myself. I had to learn a couple of times too, where

31:39 I thought it was understood what was needed by way of say hours. And or do they get paid for driving or do they not? Do they get paid for mileage? And so, you know, at the end of the day, these people are here to serve and and help your family and other families and we want to make sure that they get the best and most fair pay. Yeah, I mean it's it's a really interesting relationship, right? Because um it's one of the more intimate employer employee relationships you'll ever have, maybe the most. They're in your home if if you're lucky enough to be able to uh uh afford um that kind of help. Um, they're in your kids' lives, they're in your lives, they know intimate details of your life, you may know intimate details theirs, but it's still a business relationship. Yes. And so is there is there counsel on on how to set those healthy boundaries in in those dynamics beyond getting

32:25 getting things contracted up front. Yeah. I I mean I th I think it's it's it it is truly unique is what I see and and what I find. I mean the the the other thing I would say too is I go back to the stat I shared earlier that it it may not be obvious even for the people who are hiring the caregiver you do have other care things in the home that you're already likely paying money for and so home care and housekeeping's one many people have pets, seventy million people have pets in this country. And so

32:49 I would I can assure you most of those caregivers would love to take some of those duties on because again it It prevents them from having to figure out the scheduling and the the calendar Tetris of going to other locations and they can actually earn those wages in the home. So it's it's actually a way for families in most instances to keep the cost down if you if you consider the aggregate of the other care services.

33:12 While also making sure the caregiver is appropriately paid. Right. It's a way it's a way to actually spend less as a family while the caregiver can make more and have a a more simple schedule and life. That's right. That's a great note. I love that. Brad, such a pleasure. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thanks again to Brad Wilson for joining us. As our needs for caregiving continue to grow, it is essential to have compassionate leaders like Brad tackling this incredibly important issue. I'm so grateful he's taken on this challenge. And I'm so eager to see what care dot com does next. I'm Jeff Berman.

33:44 Thank you for listening. Masters of Scale is a Wait What original. Our executive producer is Eve Tro, senior supervising producer is Trisha Bobida. Associate Producer is Masha Makatanina. Video editor is Noah Walstein. Senior town executive is Stephanie Stern. Mixing and mastering by the audio boys, Aaron Bastanelli and Brian Pew. Original music by the legendary Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcast is Le Tal Malad. Visit mastersofscale.com to find the transcript for this episode. And to subscribe to our newsletter.

34:20 And Be sure to check out her YouTube channel.