Advice Line with Jeff and Curran Dandurand of Jack Black Skin Care

Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/ba0ffb2a55871e3a


Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges and each week
I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show, who will help me try to help you.
And so if you are building something and you need advice, go ahead and give us a call and you might just be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one minute message with your name, a bit about your business, and the issues or questions that you'd like help with.
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You can sign up for free at gyros.com or on Substack, and we'll put all this info in the podcast description. Alright, let's go.
Joining me this week are Jeff and Curren Danderand, co-founders of Jack Black Skincare. Jeff and Curren, it's great to have you back on the show. Great to be here.
Good to see you again.
Great to see you.
On how I built this originally in uh twenty twenty three. And if you guys haven't heard that episode, we will put a link in the podcast description.
Um, you guys launched this business in two thousand as a men's skin care brand. And this is back when almost nobody was thinking about the uh the men's skincare market. And I we should be clear, because I know this sometimes comes up
This is not the same name as the well known actor. You guys came up with that name independently, just to confirm.
Absolutely. Right. No relation. No relation. But a great but a g a great guy. Seems like a great guy. Actually I've interviewed him before. He's an amazing guy.
There are so many awesome lessons in that episode, um, including how you like targeted golf clubs and and men's locker rooms and sort of higher end gyms and
and how you sort of were inspired by cigar labels on old cigar boxes and how that really helped to gain traction with the brand. And again, we will put a link to that episode in the podcast description. But before we get to our callers today, I was hoping if I could ask you guys a couple of questions. So
You know, just sort of thinking about
skin care. Uh it is an incredibly crowded market, right?
Even more
skin care brands for men now than there were when you guys launched in two thousand.
And while it's not the same type of crowd as the women's skincare market, there's still a lot more competitors. So
If you were starting Jack Black today
Yeah, it's a different environment.
Do you think you would use the same playbook or do you think you might
Do things a little bit differently.
I I think it'd be very difficult.
To start a uh
immense skincare brand today.
The space is very crowded.
I've noticed going into stores that the
retail space allowed for men's skincare has shrunk.
I think a lot of that's because of the direct to consumer
strategy that most brands take. Yes. Uh so there's less space available.
Uh I I honestly I don't think I would do it again. I think that our timing was so
Good.
I I just think it'd be very, very hard to start a men's skincare company today. I really do. And and gain traction and build
A big brand.
Do you think that I mean there's obviously there's two ways of going about it. You guys started with the sort of the wholesale
approach, right? Try to sell to boutiques and then department stores.
But a lot of brands we talked to on the show
are really focused on direct to consumer. Harder today than it was ten years ago, right? Because there so many brand are doing this. But we have had you know recently we've told the story of a brand called Beyond Yoga.
Which really start start back in two thousand five.
as a wholesale brand, you know, really selling through retailers.
I mean it's almost counterintuitive, but do you think that if you were trying to start it today
You would still go with the wholesale route.
Still try to sell it in retail?
I think so. I think for a strong brand you need to have both.
You need to be in brick and mortar and you need to have a strong presence online.
'Cause people do wanna touch and feel and try the product and they wanna experience it.
Before they buy it.
So I think you know the successful brands in the long term are gonna be able to play well in both
You know, I know that both of you guys um stepped away from from the company a few years after it was acquired. Tell me a little bit about some of the things that you guys are up to. I mean I know
You're in Dallas. There's a lot of startups there. You're probably asked to come to all kinds of startup events and talk about what you built.
You know, what what kinds of things are you guys up to?
Our son Dylan
started a company.
Mm.
He's uh called not beer.
And current is
helping him with the branding on that.
I've helped them a little bit with the
Distribution side of it. And from what I understand, not beer is sparkling water, right?
Right.
But with a fun beer like positioning and personality. Yeah. So socially it's it's really fun to drink, um when you don't want to drink a beer, but you feel like you're drinking a beer.
And I think from the product standpoint it's got a really smooth mellow carbonation.
So it's a lot easier to drink than say to Po Chico?
And he's already gotten some good distribution. So he's in what I call the dark days of uh a start up. Where there's a lot of heavy lifting and a lot of setbacks and um
A lot of tough sledding, but um we've been there and so we can advise them on how to stay resilient and focused.
Um, I'm on a couple of boards of beauty companies.
All women's brands. And you go way back in this industry because you were, you know, obviously
Had
What fifteen years of experience in the industry even before you start Moore. Before you start Jack Black.
Yep, many decades that's pretty much all I've done is beauty.
Beauty marketing, product development, and branding.
It's a really, really fascinating category. We do as you know, we do a lot of it on the show. Um, are you guys ready to take some calls?
Sure. Let's do it.
Yep.
Looking forward to it.
All right, let's bring in our first collar.
Hello, welcome to Advice Line. You're on with uh Jeff and Kern Danderand of Jack Black. Welcome to the show. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.
Hi Guy, Jeff and Kern. It's so nice to be here. My name is Inga Potter. I'm calling from Kittery, Maine. I'm the co-founder of Cold Current Kelp.
We're a women founded kelp farm and skincare company. We grow kelp regeneratively off the coast of Maine, and we use our kelp to make our skincare products.
Amazing. Perfect perfect people to have on. So tell tell me a little bit more about about cold current kelp. So you harvest kelp
off the coast of Maine and then you turn that into like
Creams or what? Like what are the products?
So we make an extract from the kelp and we currently our product is a facial oil. It's called kelp glow. So we make it with nourishing oils that are great for your skin. We infuse our kelp extract into the oil.
We have three cents and two sizes, and that's that's our product as of now. We launched in August of twenty twenty three. And selling directly to consumers to your website.
We sell directly to consumers and we're currently in about twenty boutiques and s a few small spas and and stores. Inga before we bring uh Jeff and Curtain, tell us a little bit about how you how this started. How did how did you get into this? Do you have a background in skin care?
No, actually I'm a marine biologist by background. So involved in sea kelp harvesting. Yeah. Yes, exactly. So sort of what drew me first to the business is actually the environmental benefits of of growing kelp and farming kelp. And it's a really exciting and growing industry in Maine. Um so that was sort of the initial draw, but once
My co-founder's name is Krista Rose, and once we started doing some uh research about Kelp, learning about all of these amazing bioactive compounds, we got really excited about finding some other high value uses for it besides just
the dinner plate. So we found a lot of uh scientific research and evidence about uh the benefits of kelp for your skin and for your health. And we decided that a skincare product was an achievable goal and that's that's sort of how we framed our company.
That's super cool. Um and tell us what your question is for us today.
So my question is we uh are sort of in those dark days as Curin referred to where we're really just kind of very hands on and doing everything. Uh, but we're wondering about the role of advisors in business development. Um, given the stage of growth our company is in, we're facing a lot of, you know, really critical decisions about expanding our product line, about
um whether or not we seek investment, we're doing some R D. Um, we have a lot of questions and we're just sort of wondering what role at this stage advisors should play and how we
obtain them and and how do we choose them and sort of what capacity what that should look like.
All right, so you're and you said about eighteen months in, so and and you're h how m how what what have you guys done in sales so far?
We've done about fifty thousand in the last twelve months. Uh we're growing really organically. We haven't invested anything in marketing. So our we're actually seeing a lot of growth. We we're getting a lot of um earned media. So we're getting some some great news coverage. We've earned some government grants. Um so we're getting a lot of attention.
And people are enjoying our product, um
And that's kind of where we are. All right, let me bring Jeff and Kern and Kern first to you. I'm sure you may have some questions for Inga. Please fire away.
Okay. First of all, I love your concept. Bravo. I think it's brilliant. Um and I think you've got a lot of potential.
I think my question to you is uh where do you need help? What expertise are you lacking?
Um,'cause that's where you start, right?
Yeah, uh that's a great question. My my co founder business partner is a former attorney, so she brings a different skill set than I do. But we are we've never
had a business never had a skincare company. So I think some of our critical questions have to do with uh right now we have one flagship product, which we manufacture on our own. We're looking um to figure out sort of how to expand our product line. Do we seek, you know, a manufacturer to do that? That's one of our biggest questions.
um seeking investment is another question. How to, you know, when to do that, how to go about doing it. I would say those are kind of two of our biggest questions. And also like a marketing, you know, how much should we be investing in marketing?
versus sort of the organic growth that we're seeing just by doing our own social media and things like that.
Yeah, everything.
from having an advisor that has started a company in the in the beauty space and has done it kind of bootstrapping with a lean staff, not a lot of financing.
And how did they grow it? What decisions did they make? What trade offs did they make?
I mean I feel like um
You need to focus on sales.
Because nothing really happens until you sell something and you've got a great brand, you got a great story.
But you gotta get it out there, and I think sales is super important.
Maybe even more so than marketing because you need to get distribution, you need to figure out how to place your product in the right retailers.
How are you opening retail stores today? What's your process to opening up the retail partners you have today?
That is such a great question. Neither of us are particularly great at the selling point, so I really appreciate Karen's advice on that. And I know Jeff you
yours. So I was talented at that as well. Uh we've done a couple of trade shows. That's where we've gotten the majority of our retailers. Uh we're also on a platform called Fair.
So people are reaching out to us because they're finding us on Fair, which is kind of a platform where, you know, you can put your
uh company and your products and and retailers can find you. We've done a little bit of cold calling. We're we really would like to get into the spa
market. But we're we're not we don't really have much of a process, I guess, is the
Long.
Answer to that question.
you know, critical at this point in your development.
I think any you're going to gift shows, going to spa shows.
um hiring independent contractors, salespeople to help you.
You know, anything that you can do to drive sales.
Uh, how much emphasis would you put on sort of the trade show circuit versus
kind of choosing companies and approaching them uh because they look like they align with our brand and investing in that. I think you g have to do both. I think you have to cold call and try to connect with uh
with retailers that you think would be a good fit for your brand. I think you need to
You know, try to find salespeople that have similar type products that they're selling.
They may be able to bring your brand in to sell as well. I mean most of these salespeople are on straight commission. They're paid
Usually fifteen percent of the wholesale order.
So you don't have a lot of uh expense associated with having these people.
But I I think you you gotta really focus on uh opening up some accounts at this point.
Okay, I appreciate that. So are there freelance salespeople then that could represent multiple brands? Okay.
Okay.
Yeah, but independent rep groups.
Um all over the country. And we use them
To help us build and open up accounts for Jack Black. We had
Almost a thousand accounts like that.
And uh, you know.
Over the course of years.
So even if we're small
Uh they would still be able to
Kind of represent us.
Maybe.
Maybe not. I think you have to have a
You know, a good story, you have to be persistent, you have to, you know, follow up with them even when they they say no.
Uh, you have to go to shows on your own without
Without a rep group. Um
You just have to
Yeah, you talk to your existing retail partners and say who's your best salesperson? I mean
You know, the retail accounts you have today, I think I saw twenty on your website.
You know, whatever the best account is, I would go to that
account and say who who's your best salesperson that comes in here and sells you product.
That's the person that you need to talk to.
Okay.
That's great advice.
You asked Inga about advisors and men and mentors and one thought I had was you're in Maine.
There is a like in any state, and particularly Maine, where people really are proud of being Mainers, um
There's going to be a strong community of entrepreneurs. I mean we've had
You know, Tom Chappell who founded Tom Zemain and Roxanne Quimby who who founded Burtsby's
I mean it might be worth while
Just going on LinkedIn and cold you know, cold contacting some
Maine based
Found.
that have managed to build an interesting business because especially in the
personal care space. Because I think that g that goes pretty far. You know, people are
Hearing about another main
based entrepreneur, they want to help you.
And and uh you'd be surprised at how how many people will say, Sure, I'll I'll up on a on a call. Okay, I love that. I love that. Yeah, those those are definitely inspirational stories. So that's great advice too. Thank you. One of the things that I'd love to see on your website is
Just i uh it's really cool. The the video of you guys
harvesting the kelp and and that's awesome and I would keep that exactly how it is. But I would love to see just what it does for the skin.
I'd love to see something. Okay, great. Yeah, we tried to include a section about the benefits of Kelvin skincare, but maybe we need to do it.
A little more visually, is that what you're suggesting? I think so, yeah. Okay.
Mm. Okay.
I think so for sure.
Or or even you could do um
A small clinical study.
that shows your product and how it works and um the before and afters and the measurements of the, you know, elasticity and the you know, fine lines and wrinkles and hyperpigmentation.
You really need to establish um the efficacy of kelp for your product.
I know you cited all the research, which is great. Um, and that's very legit, but you wanna talk about your product and how it works. And I'd also show your reviews. I s I see you have the stars, but you can't drill into it and read the reviews. Okay, so put more details about the reviews. I guess we we would love to do a clinical trial. I really appreciate that.
um advice. Could you do it for
Under ten thousand dollars. Yeah. I think you could. I mean you're not gonna have as many people in it, but you could have enough to
talk about and to show before and afters.
And get some measurements.
And you could get different quotes. I mean it all comes down to how many respondents, you know, you have in the study. Yeah.
That is good advice. All right. The brand is called Cold Current Kelp.
Ingepar, thank you so much for calling and good luck.
Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much, Jeff Current and Guy. It was so great to be here. Thank you.
All right. Thank you. Bye bye. All right. Bye bye.
I mean it makes sense to me that seek help, right?
You know, there would be some
A lot of benefits to it. It's a great story all around. Did you guys ever um experiment with like sea vegetables or anything like that in any of your products?
Oh gosh, I think we had seaweed.
But Celp was not on
The radar.
But it has a lot of great attributes. It's environmentally friendly. I just I love their story.
I mean she's a
PhD in biology I mean there's legit
Right.
The more they lean into that, the the better as well. Yeah, no, I like it.
Mm.
We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz, and we're answering your questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab.
Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Roz, and today I'm taking your calls with Jeff and Curran Dandaran. So Jeff Curran, let's get back to it. Take another call. Yep. Let's go. Let's go. Coller, welcome to the advice line, your Honorable Jeff and Curran Dandaran, founders of Jack Black. Hello, welcome. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and uh a little bit about your business.
Thank you, my name is Ashley Gold. I'm calling from Park City, Utah, and I'm the founder of I'm a Tand, an everyday luxury home and tableware brand.
Dedicated to helping people reconnect with themselves, their spaces, and the people in their lives.
We design our own products and we make them in small batch production.
All over the world from the United States to France to the Czech Republic.
And our designs are based on function, sensory experience, and aesthetics.
Welcome to the show, Ashley. Thanks for calling in and um a Tante. And so and what does that mean, by the way? I'm just I should know.
No, that's French for to take care of your soul.
Got oh nice. Okay. So it's home it's home goods or is it is it uh like
So it's plates. Yeah, we've got um
Ceramics.
Glassware, crystal, wooden cutting boards.
Things that are in your home.
And you design everything.
Yeah.
We design I have a designer.
Dylan Williamson who works with me and the two of us work on them together.
And you're based in Park City, and do you sell any of this in in shops in Park City?'Cause it's I'm looking at your website, this is fancy stuff. Park City's a fancy town.
We do not, and that actually is actually my question is where to uh find our customers. We're currently direct to consumer.
Only
Um we spent a lot of money on our photography.
And um obviously the margins are better direct to consumer, but
I do think we need to find the right.
Places, the right retail locations for people to be able to touch and feel our products, to really see the quality.
Because the price point is also high. They're expensive to design and manufacture in small batch production.
Tell me a little bit about how you founded the business. What were you doing before? Were you were like did you come from this in industry?
I am a lawyer by training, actually. I worked at Jewel, which is an e cigarette company. Oh yes. The the infamous Jewel. You so you were like their in-house lawyer or one of the lawyers? I I st I had a I wore a lot of different hats while I was there. Um I ended as the chief administrative officer. I testified before Congress. It was a very, very
Challenging
Job and maybe not for the reasons you might think I still very much believe in the product for addicted smokers.
The way that society and news and everybody
talked about it and I felt like failed to actually have the conversations.
Um
just led me to this broader sense that we are
Having trouble.
Disagreeing respectfully. So I moved to Park City during Covid and decided to
completely change what I was doing.
And it was really driven by being able to sit around the table, have difficult conversations, not necessarily agree.
But spend the time together and connect as humans.
Well.
Alright, so you left
That world behind.
And you move to Park City to start this new business. And is this entirely self funded?
It is.
And since you launched, how how how have you guys done in sales total?
We it is slow going. We made about twenty five thousand dollars last year and would obviously love to see that grow substantially.
Got it. Okay, so your question is how can we reach the right people?
Yes. Right. And and kind of convince them. Um I want to bring Jeff and Curran in. Um before we answer Ashley's questions, do you have any questions for for her?
Yeah, I do. Um, first of all, your website is beautiful. I love your concept.
Um I was struck by how broad your product line is, and that makes it extremely challenging when you're a startup. Um, just your inventory costs, the cost of maintaining all those SKUs.
So my question is
Um, do you see the eighty twenty role coming into play in your product line thus far?
meaning that twenty percent of your products generate eighty percent of your sales.
Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much, Kirin. So I had a consultant who actually suggested that we had to have a relatively large number of products to launch.
And yet, to your point.
We are definitely seeing a few products be the ones that resonate with people. So I
I mean I like this idea of potentially narrowing down. For example, we have these beautiful hand blown crystal tumblers that are made in the Czech Republic.
And we have three colorways right now, and now we're expanding into a couple more colorways. So maybe if we find the products that people are gravitating to.
We
give people more color options of those products, but simplify.
The number of products that we offer.
I I totally agree. And I think you're gonna build your community.
By focusing on your hero products at this stage in your development and making people fall in love.
With those products and then you introduce them.
to the rest of your line as as you evolve and as you get stronger, and that's how you build your community. First they gotta fall in love with your product.
And it's a bit overwhelming when you look at your site'cause you have so much there. It's all very beautiful.
But you kinda don't know where to start.
And I think if
If you're gonna go wholesale
That is way too much for a retailer.
Two.
bring in. You know, they're gonna focus on the best sellers and your hero product and what is that
Entry point product.
to your brand.
And that's where you need to really focus right now, I think.
And do you think that the entry point product needs to be a more affordable product, or is it okay if it's a more expensive product?
I think it depends on how expensive and
how you can justify the price point, how easily you can communicate that it's it's worth the step up.
It's always nice to have something that's a little more accessible to bring them into the brand and again have them fall in love with you and then you can upgrade them.
As they become uh fan.
So I would be sensitive to that.
Okay.
One of the things that I thought of was, you know, you're in Park City, you're in an area
just filled with affluent people throughout the year. I mean especially as as we speak, you know, people getting ready to go to Sundance.
And
I wonder how whether you've tried to or considered
working with some of the boutiques in Park City to to at least have some of your
Items.
In the stores.
I haven't, but I think it's a great idea.
Yeah, I mean because you know, you're you were in the Bay Area for a long time, so I'm sure you're familiar with Heath. Heath ceramics, right? Heath ceramics is a product that people are willing to spend a lot of money for. I have a few Heath serving bowls. They're very expensive, but they've been around for a long time and they've
Done things like collaborations with, you know, Alice Waters, the one of the most famous chefs in America, where you go to her restaurants and everything is served on Heath.
Uh you know, plates. Now that business was really revived in the last sort of decade or so by
So
To me there's some interesting things that you could try to get people to say, Oh, that's that's Amatand. I mean, that's a really high end brand. But you've got to g going from the the website alone to that perception is challenging. Unless you have
a celebrity who who's behind you and and backing this and also promoting it.
I feel like
You want to kind of build this.
Out.
I would say starting in Park City because it's such a
I mean it's a one of those places that's small but really influential because of the people who go there.
Does that make sense? It totally makes sense. I think it's a great idea. And I like the idea. We've thought about influencers, but
That's so I really want this to be
Authentic. I want people who really, really love the products. And when people use them, they do fall in love with them. But
The price point is high, so they need to be there needs to be some reason to try it. And so maybe that is
A local restaurant or some of the local retail shops.
Yeah, I I I mean I think that's the way to go. I mean I you know, b because it's a premium product and and by the way, with Jack Black, I mean you guys were were also making a premium product. I mean this was not
It wasn't you know.
out of you know, a sort of astronomically expensive for most people, but it was a it was a pre there was a premium price on it. And but but that's how you guys also positioned it, right?
Right.
But to your point, we made sure we did a lot of sampling and we demonstrated in store so people could feel it and touch it and see the textures and go, Yeah, this is worth the premium.
And so I like guys idea of of getting placement in the right
retailers um so people can see your product, feel it, and see the context that it's marketed in in with in the right stores.
To establish your price point.

Pinpointing.
Five or six retail retailers in Park City.
Deer Valley, you know these
Super high in ski resort areas.
And going to them with
You know, I don't know how much inventory you have right now of certain items, but
You could even go up to them and
And I don't like to sell on consignment. We never did it, but I think you could
At least offer that as a
option to open up a retail account. Just say hey I'm
I'm specifically targeting your store. I think it's beautiful. I think our products are beautiful.
And I'd like to have the opportunity to sell my products here for the next thirty days.
I'll come back in thirty days if you've s whatever you sold you pa you pay me for. If we if we don't sell anything I'll just pick it up and move on.
But I need a chance in your store. I love your store.
I mean we used to do that all the time.
I love that idea. That's a great idea.
And you could do events. You could do events at the store.
And talk about your concept and talk about your products and
Yeah, and and you're also you also have the
access to some really high end hotels and resorts, Montage and Waldorf and St. Regis. I uh there's a bunch of really
super fancy hotels out there. I mean people are paying
two, three thousand dollars a night, you know, to stay in these places and ski. I I I think there's a world where
You try and get into those gift shops. I mean, those kinds of gift shops in those kinds of places, they want high end local products.
Yeah. Especially high end local product.
And do you think that I need to go and sell this personally to each of these places? Yes, okay, yeah, and it's easy to do because you're there.
Yeah, that's true.
Mm-hmm.
Jeff, you you you were you led the sales, right? It's hard. You gotta go in h how would you suggest
She go and do that.
I mean I would just I
I target
the top five or six retailers. I'd find out who their buyer was or whoever owned the store.
I would show up at their store unannounced.
I'd ask for that person.
I tell them, Hey, I love your store.
And I would say that, hey, I've got this product line.
And I
Wanna find a home for it.
I think you'd be a perfect home for this and would you give me a shot?
I can do that.
All right, you got a plan. We've given you a plan, Ashley. I love it.
Uh the brand is called Amatanda.
Uh thanks so much. Good luck. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Bye bye.
Fight.
Yeah, it's I mean l I'm looking at her website, it's really, really nice stuff.
But to convince right, to convince people to spend that on on this brand, I think they have to know it first a little bit, right?
To Curran's point.
There's a lot of items on that website.
I mean.
It's everything.
They've gotta have a lot of their capital tied up in inventory to maintain all those SKUs and the different colors and
just makes it tough when you're just starting out like that to have that kind of carrying costs in your inventory.
Yeah.
Sculptures, games.

Yeah, sculptures. All kinds of things.
Yeah, and over time they they can they can move that inventory. But it may may make sense to focus on
The the serveware, the dinner wear, the drink wear.
Right. And then you know, the'cause yeah, stationary and
Just food and gifts, but um really nice stuff.
We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz, and we're answering your questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab.
Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Roz, and my guests today are Jack Black Skincare co founders Curran and Jeff Danderand. Uh Jeff Curren.
Let's uh take another call. Yep, let's do it.
Yeah, let's go.

Final caller, welcome to the advice line. You're on with Jeff and Current and Rand founders of
Jack Black Skincare, please.
Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.
Yeah. Hi everyone. I'm really excited to be here. My name is Brent, and I'm calling from the beautiful mountain town of Nelson, British Columbia, Canada. And uh I'm the founder of Goso Cookware.
Uh so Goso Cookware is a line of premium quality camp cookware, so designed for people who both love to cook and love to camp.
Got it. Okay, and tell us a little bit about what makes this'cause co cookware for camping exists. So what what's so special about Dosa?
Totally. So Coke for Camping definitely exists. You have
You know, heavy duty cast iron pans, which are great, but they're really bulky, heavy, heavy. You don't wanna you don't wanna backpack with that on. No you don't. Yeah. So then the answer to that is well, there's also really lightweight backpacking equipment, right? Backpacking cook, which is great if you like to boil water.
But if you want to do anything else, then there's like nothing really in between. And so I created a frying pan that is a carbon steel frying pan. So carbon steel has all of the great benefits of a cast iron frying pan where there's no toxicity.
Totally heats evenly, there's no toxic coatings. Um my pan is made in America out of uh fourteen gauge American carbon steel.
It's great cooking properties. It you can season it so it's almost non-stick. Uh but then we created a a custom made
completely removable handle. So it's a handle that can lock onto the pan.
Or you can take it off. So if you pack up the pan and the handle, they all pack down to a very small footprint.
So it packs as a as like a a bowl, basically. Yeah, exactly. It's two pans, an eight inch and a ten inch pan that stack together and then the handle nestles in the side. So you have two frying pan in the the footprint of like a ten inch circle.
And you get two pants. Okay. How did you uh start I'm assuming you're a camper. So tell me the idea behind this. When did this business start? I love to camp, I love to cook. I've been doing it for a long time with my family. And to this day I that's what me and my friends love to do is we get outside and eat good food together, essentially. I actually started a YouTube channel
a couple of years ago a COVID project around teaching people who ride motorcycles and go camping off their motorcycles how to cook better. The idea was that, you know, they're passing past a grocery store at some like at some point in the day usually. So like why not cook something a little bit better than rehydrated food? Right? You're out there, you're having this beautiful experience, eat a good meal.
You know, like it's fully worth it.
Um, so that was my motivation, but then my frustration came in that I didn't have I the I bought like the best camp frying pan I could find, but it was aluminum, it was coated in Teflon, the handle wasn't that great, uh, it got banged up, scratched, and when I tried to cook something at a higher temperature, the whole thing warped and burned. And I was like, man, this this it really wasn't meeting what I what I
What I needed and wanted. So
Yeah, I started on the journey earnestly in around twenty early twenty twenty three, did lots of market research through that time.
And then last year, early twenty four, we started I started working towards producing a Kickstarter campaign. And uh last summer launched my business through Kickstarter.
I was gonna ask, how did you finance this thing? So you did a Kickstarter, how much did you raise? Yeah, uh it's it's fun, man. We uh
We raised a total of a hundred and sixty six thousand Canadian dollars. Nice. Yeah. And uh our our project was funded within the first hour of opening and uh yeah, we're just on the verge of of shipping that. So a year later I've gone from a like a prototype idea to we're shipping our product. Yeah.
All right, so you got the Kickstarter done, you got the money in. Now you're shipping the product out. Obviously there are all those Kickstarter supporters. Yeah. But now the hard part begins because you've got to now we reach a much bigger audience and try to get more attention. So uh be before we dive in a bit more, what's your question for us?
Yeah, so my question is.
is around uh building a culture around around a product.
So gozo stands for get outside, stay outside. And ultimately that's what I want people to do. It's kind of our motto. We want people to get into the outdoors and connect with each other. And uh I want to create a culture around our product where people aren't just using the cookware to sustain themselves in the outdoors, but rather they're using it to create meals that are a catalyst for connection.
Right. So the question I have is how do I best create a culture um around cooking in the outdoors while connecting it to my product, the everywhere pan?
Jeff Curran, a lot to to consider here.
create community which makes sense because there's a certain community of passionate people who camp and want to cook. So
What do you think?
Well, I would start with your website.
I think you can create a lot of compelling content on your site. You could have a lot of um tips about your favorite trails and your hikes you've done.
Um right now it's pretty bare bones.
Yeah. I think you really need to fill that out. Um just
Showing what the Michelin stargazer is all about. A lot of um you could do user generated content. I wanna thank you. I appreciate you uh recognizing the Michelin stargazer. Uh and that's kind of like the name we have for our community of people. You know, someone who loves to cook and loves to camp, that's a Michelin stargazer.
There's a lot of potential there. Um
And that's how you can build your community and and and show what this is all about and bring it to life.
Um
I I see on your site that you can sign up to get the newsletter.
But I would tease it.
a little bit on your site with some of that content and show what it's all about so you can sample it a little bit and show them what they're gonna get. Um are you thinking to also um sell to retailers or are you gonna be DTC?
Uh like to be a combo of both. Our our plan is this first year to be direct to consumer and uh in the future like to open up wholesale accounts so ideally starting next year uh and focusing on small independent outdoor retailers.
So yeah, small shops. Um, this is a higher quality, higher like premium level product. So it's really focused towards not the you know, the weekend camper, but people that are really passionate about spending time in the outdoors and passionate about cooking.
Well, and I think your target market is very defined.
And very easy to market to. You know, outdoor enthusiasts, campers, you know
long through hikers
Um so it's gonna be easy to find them on social media and target them.
And I like the idea of going for the smaller retailer and in every community you've got that mom and pop.
hiking shop that would be perfect for you.
Um dealing with the big box guys will be tough in the early days, but I think the smaller retailer will really support you and educate the their customer.
About your product.
Right, I appreciate that.
Yeah, I also think that I mean i it's early days for you. You've just really launched it. And and w as we speak it's it's it's not really hiking weather in British Columbia. It's snowy. But but this is the kind of product I mean, you're in the right place to do this, right? Because you are in an outdoors hiking part of
Yeah.
And um you know, I uh recently I saw this documentary. It's it's it's just an aside,'cause it's not really directly connected, but it's a documentary about that guy, Brian Johnson, a very strange guy, right? He's he's he's trying to live forever. He's try to become younger. You've probably seen these videos of him and
Um, he injects himself with all kinds of gene therapy and takes a hundred and fifty vitamins and pills a day and

Um, what he did was he was basically very lonely and he wanted and he's also building a business. And he just started tweeting out, Hey, I'm going for a run
uh, you know, in this part of Los Angeles leaving uh nine A. M. And the first time he did it, like five people met him.
Second time he did it, like ten people showed up.
Now he's been been doing it for a couple of years, he's getting four hundred people to these things. Th there's a w there's a world where I can imagine you doing a version of that where you're like, Hey, I'm going to this trailhead and I'm gonna be m grilling up sausages in the morning and pancakes.
Come come on down for free sausage and pancakes until
Samples run out and have boxes of go so cookware available.
You might get five people, you might get two people the first time.
But
But you know, there are probably enough popular hiking trails that
Um a after a certain period of time, you're gonna start to build momentum in the you know
among a certain type of person who talks about these kinds of things. Yeah. Yeah, my p my plan this winter, uh, was to go to some ski parking lots and like get to like the trailheads of some ski touring areas, you know, make a sweet breakfast wrap and that sort of thing. And I think it'd be great for the content wise, but also creating that like really organic uh sense of community as well.
You know, once I I would imagine once I have one of these carbon steel
hands. I really don't need another one in six months.
So what other products can you offer?
No, that that's the downfall of my business model is that they really they're really durable and they really last a long time. Um but the idea is to to build up more quality cookware products. So right now we have two offerings, an eight inch pan and a ten inch pan.
And then we'd like to build out into a twelve inch pan, a sp a specific griddle pan that works along with it, lids.
Um, and then also some accessories that go along with it, scrubbers. We have uh two other uh scratch pad and some seasoning paste uh that go along with it.
Uh but yeah, so really I wanna try and
like not spread out too much and cover, you know, anything to do with cooking and camping. In the future, I'd love to just like kind of expand so that you can have a full kitchen that packs down into a very compact
Compact set and then.
Higher quality stuff.
And Brent, are you uh do you have any cash left from the fundraise?
for the Kickstarter Federation to play around with.
There's a little bit, but not a ton.
But yeah, a lot of it went into product development and I mean it it it it it might be worthwhile
Um
You know, again, user generated content, seeing how people are using it
recipes on the website uh I think would help and that that's uh doesn't cost a lot.
Um
But you could try, you know, things like making T shirts, let's say
Michelin stargazer, right? Yeah. Uh'cause it's kind of a cool idea. Michelin, obviously the food, stargazer and and with your logo on it and
you know, sort of hand those out at you know, at especially if you're gonna go to a trade show, but um but also to to to to kind of connect and find people in your area,'cause I think you're you're you're you're in an area. Like how far are you from Vancouver, by the way?
I'm about eight hours east of Vancouver. Okay, so you are deep in British Columbia. Yeah, it's a small little town, but we're loaded like we're a mecca of of outdoor enthusiasts. Like there's amazing skiing, amazing biking, like
It's um
So that's your community. I mean that's really where you have to start. I mean that's that's the those are the force multipliers because those are the people who are who know you, they know that you're local, they wanna support you
and incentivise them to do that. I mean I mean if they
If they post, if they um maybe they get a shirt.
Um something like that.
And you might you might think about hiring somebody to help you with social media.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I appreciate any like any tips or any thoughts you think in regards to social media?
That you would.
You have?
Just float the zone as you got a way, you got a YouTube channel. You know what you're doing. Just keep it keep at it. And and re I think recipes are really important. When you're offering somebody um
information.
Or content that is useful to them.
Rather than just trying to sell the product.
that's what sticks. You know, you're like, Oh, this guy is making a corned beef hash. Oh well it's what's what's his pan? So but uh you're focused on the corned beef hash. So I would I would really lean into trying to to do as much of that as you can
Uh the brand is called Goso Cookware. Brent Frisker, uh thank so much for calling.
Yeah, thank you so much, guys. Good luck, Brent.
Thank you.
Great having you.
Um
I don't know about you guys, but when I when I go um on like long hikes and long trails
I look for a
a nice inn or hotel where I can sleep at night in the pitch tent.
Yeah.
Exactly. I'm not staying in a tent. No.

Really nice rib I steak.
There you go. Um before I let you guys go, uh and thanks so much for coming on. Tell me
If you were now, if you were going back twenty five years, you know, to the beginning,'cause I know it was it was I remember it was a struggle, you know, the story you guys told and how stressful it was. But of course you you managed to make it happen in in a big way. Um, if you were able to go back twenty five years ago
And and give you guys advice or or some words of encouragement back then. What do you think you might have said?
Correct?
Mm.
Well I
One thing it's it's kinda tactical, but I would be
more diligent in who I hired.
and do background checks because when you're in your early days and
People don't really want to work for you because you're a startup, it's too risky, you don't have a lot of money.
You're not getting the top talent. You kinda just
You're desperate and you take
Whoever you can find
And
I learned the hard way, you need to do background checks on people. And even if it takes a while because when you do hire the wrong people, it can cost you
A lot.
Uh money and
heartache and stress.
Um the other thing I might change would be being more careful and doing more due diligence on
Retailers.
distributors.
Like we got burned from distributors that
Basically just divert our product and we're
Total.
Frauds.
And just making sure the retailer's the right fit.
For your brand.
And that they're gonna support your brand.
So we made some mistakes in that area. Um
And so just being more careful with that. That's sounding like my mistake.
For some reason.
We were all in it together.
Um
You have to just say, I can figure this out, I've done it before, one foot in front of the other.
Um
So
It it's hard when you're in it, but you just have to have confidence in yourself that you'll figure it out. It's not the end of the world.
There will be a solution.
Yeah.
Yeah, you gotta kinda kinda be your own coach. But you guys had each other, which also helped. Je uh Jeff, what do you what do you think? I mean
Similar similarly. Yeah, there's a couple of things. Uh in the early days when we didn't have money
You know, I'd walk into our warehouse and I would just see
Yeah.
Tons of inventory.
Product everywhere.
Yeah, I knew that's where our cash was tied up. Maybe being a little more careful about
controlling new product development and you know our inventory in general.
The second thing as a salesperson, I really regret this more than anything, is I I didn't know the
product formulations as well as I should have.
I knew I was
You know, that you get great results and the products worked well.
But as a salesperson I was focused on opening up new accounts, not the benefits of the products themselves. And there are significant benefits to the formulations that occur in
And Emily developed.
And I just didn't
I didn't dive into that science like I wish I would have.
Today.
I think I would have spent more time there.
Yeah.
That's good advice.
Jeff and Kern Rand, thank you so much for uh coming back onto the show. So great having you. Thank you. It's an honor to be on.

It's Jack Black Skincare co-founders Jeff and Curan Danderan. And by the way, if you haven't heard their original How I Built This Episode, you gotta go and check it out. A lot of great lessons in that episode. You can find a link to it in the podcast description. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview.
We had this seven foot tall, very beautiful wood floor standing fixture, laser cut logo. We spent a ton of money on it. And our idea was this is the display you're gonna use in your golf shop. Okay.
But people would look at that display and just like go on, what are you thinking? We don't need we can't put that in our shop. We would never sell that much product.
They just weren't interested. And Jeff's like, this isn't working.
We gotta pull the plug and we gotta go get real jobs.
Mm-hmm.
Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at gyros.com or on Substack. And of course, if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues you are currently facing.
Because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com or call us at 1-800-433-1298. You can leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And by the way, we'll put all of this in the podcast description as well.
This episode was produced by Imam Maani with music composed by Ramteen Arab Lui. It was edited by John Isabella, our audio engineer was Cina Lafredo. Our production team also includes Alex Chung, Casey Herman, Elaine Coates, Chris Massini, Katherine Cyfer, Carrie Thomson, Sam Paulson, JC Howard, and Neva Grant.
I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.