Elon’s wildest interview yet — our reaction

0:00 He goes, If you get things done I love you. And if you don't, I hate you. I thought that was What a weirdo. Ha ha

0:10 When I heard it, I was like, That's how Sam is. I feel like I can rule the world, I know I could be what I want to I put my all in it like a day's off. Can I tell you about this Elon Musk podcast? Did you did you listen to this cheeky pint episode with Elon? I saw it, didn't listen to it. You gotta listen to this thing.

0:30 This is an amazing podcast. I think the who's the Indian guy. I s I started seeing him pop up like out of nowhere. Door cache. Uh Dorke is a podcaster. He's got the Uh he's got his own YouTube channel and and whatnot. He is this unicorn because he's a good he's a really good podcaster.

0:46 Like he's got good energy, good vibe. You like listen, he's like an authentic nerd in a way. But he's also technical. So the one of the reasons this podcast is really interesting is because normally Elon says something and he'll be like I predict that in four years we will ha uh Have

1:01 You know. Of uh whatever. Ten more data centers in space than we have on On earth. Cumulatively. And then what me or you or Joe Rogan or any of us

1:11 Would do when he says that? Well my wow. Yeah. That's crazy, man. How how are you gonna do that, right? That it's like that, like come on, bro. Like you know, that's that's all we're capable of. Like our little peanut mind can only do so much. But Elon, that

1:28 That doesn't make sense because electricity doesn't work the same way in space or whatever. Yeah, he w he was pushing back the whole time to where I was like Is Elon gonna throw his drink in his face? Like what's going on here? Is he gonna get mad that this guy keeps pushing back on every idea that he says? And it because he pushed back so he would be like Um but why do we need that? We can uh you're talking about this much energy that could be done by this many solar panels. That could fit in just Nevada. So why do we need space to power this?

1:54 And then Elon would be like Well, here's the reason why. Permitting and blah blah blah blah. And he's like, but won't there be other problems in space, you know, that are just as difficult? How are you gonna how are you gonna uh fix a broken GPU when it's in space? Like what are you gonna do for maintenance? That's gonna be incredibly difficult to do when it's floating in space. And uh Elon was like, you know, then had to like come back with a counterpoint each time. So I thought that was one remarkable thing about the podcast was Somebody with enough technical acumen.

2:20 Two on the fly. Calcul so he so Elon would say something about space and then he'd be like So if you're gonna do ten thousand launches, that means you're launching out a s a starship every hour. Every hour you're gonna do a starship launch. How many have you done the last you've done like you know, three or whatever in the last year? Like that's Is that even possible to do an hour every hour?

2:38 And then Elon would be like. Well f uh You know, there's more planes than that taking off from airports. So yes. And then they would like go into why that's like either correct or incorrect. Uh and by the way, it's really funny because the Founder of Stripe is sitting there, right? This is it was on it was like a collab. It was on Cheeky Pint, which is made by the Stripe guy. He probably asked.

2:57 Five questions total. In three hours. And Dwarke asked Five hundred maybe. Didn't do it. But it was exactly what was needed and shout out to the guy from Stripe for Letting that play out the way it did, I thought it made for a great podcast. Did he best Elon in anything?

3:12 No, no, it wasn't like a one upsmanship, but it was definitely a I'm not just gonna let you say that shit. Like, wait. So what do you know that I don't know? Because I would just think this. And he would like kinda earnestly ask the question and he'd be like, Okay, I buy that that does this, but I don't see the connection you made to this. And so he forced him to keep going.

3:31 Uh, which I thought was great. Did you feel the same sense that I feel when I see a white guy with a hundred meter dash or like Sense of national pride. Yeah. Like when Chris Anderson Is that how you felt? A little bit. I'm a founding guy. I actually felt scared for him. I was like, dude, tone it down. That's a little crazy. You just get a little you get a little feist here. Uh but he was also like autistically like um unaware of like So I like I can't not ask this. I have to ask this because I want to know the answer to it. And I thought that was so great. He's so earnest in the way he does everything. It's great. Um, what what like high five of your wife watching it? Like a world star hip hop. Yeah. Where we at? Where we at? Next. I may or may not have bought a dwarcash uh

4:26 You know hoodie after that. Um So can I tell you some of the crazy things that Elon said? And Uh did he mention Epstein at all?

4:37 He did not they didn't go into they were they basically were like, We're gonna use this time to talk about like technology, not like The woke. Politics like politics, Elon, they like did a very minimal amount of that. Did a little bit on Doge at the end, but like not not much. Um I'll tell you first just like a useful thing and then I'll tell you some of the crazy things. Cause the crazy things you're gonna be like

4:56 We're both again gonna be like wow, man. Um but let's just do the useful thing. So he they asked about hiring. So they were basically getting into their like, so um How do you do like what are you doing differently than the rest of us? Like what what is it that you're doing that's leading to All of this incredible like individually and of one any one of your companies. Is doing incredible things, right? SpaceX trillion dollar company, XAI.

5:21 it came into the AI game like, I don't know, seven years late or something like that. And became a two hundred fifty billion dollar company. I saw the X AI thing, I didn't even know what it is. Have you ever used Grock? It's it's Elon's Competitor to Chat GPT.

5:37 The product is called Groc. It's his revenge company,'cause when open AI kinda screwed him and like uh did exactly the opposite of what he wanted, right? Open AI, open source. Um AI that's you know a nonprofit and now it's a for profit.

5:52 closed source company and he funded fifty dollars and that now owns none of it. Like His revenge company was X AI. But again, seven seven eight years late to the game and still uh caught up. Tesla obviously worth more than the next twenty car companies combined. So it's it's like you know, he's d any one of these companies dominate.

6:10 All of these companies. Supernova. What is this? What's even happening? And so they're asking about hiring. And they were like, You must have incredible people because just by logic, there's no way you could be in five of these companies at the same time doing the things yourself. So you must have incredible people. How are you getting these people And so they were like, What do you look for when you hire? Because he hired, I guess, the first thousand people at SpaceX or thousand plus people at SpaceX. He interviewed them uh himself. And he just goes, I'm looking for evidence of exceptional ability.

6:39 And he goes, uh sometimes I would see a resume and I'd be like, This person sounds great. He goes, but I've learned You trust the conversation, not the resume. So he's like If in that first twenty minutes I'm not saying wow Um, I believe the conversation and I don't believe the resume. And he goes, All I asked them for in the interview is

6:56 Tell me about something something exceptional you've done. I'm looking for evidence of exceptional ability. And if they can't tell me a story, he goes, if they say one thing Or you know, one of the three things that are I'm just saying, wow, wow, wow. That's all I'm looking for. When I have to do it.

7:12 Uh of exceptional ability. Yeah, like could it be like I was um an N C double A athlete and I was uh I won. I won't be able to do it. Techn technical achievements or like things you've built. Or done technically.

7:25 And he was saying he he's like, you know, he's like he's like, it's not that I'm batting a thousand, right? I make a lot of mistakes. He goes But at this point I've have probably You know, to use like the AI terms. I have the most training data probably uh you know out there of hiring Like

7:40 Technical talent. You know, I've been doing this for a long time and I've interviewed so many of these people myself and I've gotten to see What worked? And what didn't you think? And then I revised my training uh I have a big training set and I revised my own I R L'd myself.

7:54 And I re did reinforcement learning on myself in order to figure out. What should I actually be looking for? What what do I actually want? And then they were like they asked them this great question. They go Uh what do you look for in like a sparring partner? So like what does it take to work well with Elon? And um, you know, what do you want? And he goes

8:10 I don't want a sparring partner. I want you to execute well. If he was If someone executes well, I'm a huge fan. If they don't I hate them. He goes, I don't care about my own idiosyncratic preferences.

8:25 He goes, If you get things done. I love you. And if you don't, I hate you. I thought that was What a weirdo. Ha ha

8:36 You say that. I feel like you're the same way, dude. I literally feel like I when I heard it, I was like, That's how Sam is Well, I just took Andrew Wilkinson's like personality test. You see him tweet that thing out the other day. Yeah. Your boy's autistic, apparently. So uh that's literally what the text is. Wait, how did we lead with that? Yeah. And the good Yeah. Breaking. Tell the T V PN. I need to get one of those little uh like uh Announcement things. Yeah. This is better than your birthday, Feb ninth. That was your awakening day. The big A Day. Um

9:11 Maybe now our podcast can get into the top top charts here. We may break into the top ten. Yeah, it turns out uh yeah, capital A autistic. And so maybe Elon and I, um I don't know, maybe he's got the good type of autistic though. I've got the math one and you have the both got the one where we uh are just awkward in social situations and we say things like that. By the way, for anyone who's a fan, we say this with extreme love and uh a sense of humor about this. There's a long running joke, which is like in San Francisco, like it's one of the highest status.

9:44 It's one of the highest status things you could have and that's where uh the the origin of the joke come from. All right. So a lot of people watch and listen to the show because they want to hear us just tell them exactly what to do when it comes to starting or growing a business. Now a lot of people message Sean and I and they say, All right, I want to start something on the side. Is this a good idea? Is that a good idea? And Again, what they're really just saying is just give me the ideas.

10:07 Well, my friends. Are in luck. So my old company, The Hustle, they put together a hundred different side hustle ideas, and they have appropriately called it the side hustle idea. database. Pretty good ideas, frankly. I went through'em. They're awesome.

10:22 And it gives you How to start'em, how to grow'em, things like that. Gives you a little bit of inspiration. So check it out. It's called the Side Hustle Idea Database. It's in the description below. You'll see the link. Click it, check it out. Let me know in the comments what you think. Can I tell you another thing uh he said in this? So he was like They kept asking, they were like, Okay, so like what are you doing differently? He goes, I just have a maniacal sense of urgency. And he goes, I shoot for a deadline that I have a fifty percent probability of success.

10:48 And people make fun of me because that means half the time I'm late. And I'm wrong about my deadline and I miss my deadlines. But uh it's worth it because You go work is like a gas. It expands to fill the time you give it. And so I just don't give it much time. Um and so okay, that was that was good. Now let me kill tell you about some of the crazy stuff.

11:06 So Wait, that's actually really interesting. I get criticized within my own company of doing that, of creating like these super urgent and people get worn out. And then like Hermosy, who I who I think is a really smart business guy, he like preaches all the time of like have patience and everything like that. It's that's a hard dichotomy to to handle. Uh yeah, I think it's sort of a like Uh, long term patience as in you're not gonna give up and you're gonna stay at it.

11:28 Um, I think short term maniacal sense of urgency. Is i in on the task. So it's like patient with the mission and maniacal about the task. Um is is probably the way to do it. So th here's another thing um that I picked up.

11:42 He might have said the phrase Limiting factor. Four hundred times in three hours. Have you ever said that phrase?

11:53 So i the i if one thing came out of this, it was how Elon thinks and works. Is You have a huge mission. Right. We're gonna go to Mars. We're gonna build the first electric car company. We're gonna build artificial general intelligence, right? Like whatever it is. Huge mission.

12:11 You have a maniacal sense of urgency. Right. That's the second component. And what's the third one? It's this idea of the limiting factor. And so at any given time, all he's doing is he's sort of scanning for What is the limiting factor as in what is the bottleneck that's preventing us from getting to the outcome sooner, right now? So for example Um

12:30 With AI right now. They're like, uh you're doing these space data stations, uh data centers. That sounds crazy. Why are you doing this? Why can't we just Dude on earth. Well To make AI smarter.

12:42 We need Bigger Like. Data center. More compute. And so you're either gonna be limited by chips.

12:48 Uh initially we were limited by chips. So I started building chips. Uh so like Tesla's building, like uh their own GPUs to like, you know, like the equivalent of the NVIDIA chips. Um and he bought he bought the most you know, he bought like huge orders of NVIDIA chips and

13:03 you know, told Jensen, like, Give me everything you got. The second thing is power. And so he's like the limiting factor is now power, not chips. He's like, I suspect that actually in the next, you know, twenty four, thirty six months There will be more GPU chips that can't be turned on.

13:18 So y the limiting factor will not be chips anymore. We're not constrained by chips, we'll be constrained by power availability. And so then he's like, um and so they walked through, they're like, So what do you mean? So like why can't you just connect to the grid? And he's like, You can't connect to the grid for these reasons. There, okay, well, why can't you do it off grid? Why can't you just get a buy a like a power plant and power your own chips, not connect to the grid. He's like, Well, there's three companies that make the power plants and they're all booked out till twenty thirty two. We can't build the power plants fast enough with there's not Enough people or projects and time to build enough power plants as we're gonna need.

13:49 And they're like, Well specifically like what's the so then's like specifically why? He's like, actually it's the turbines inside the power plants that we cannot procure in time. And there's this many companies that make the turbines. And actually within the turbine, it's the blades in veins that you can't do. And so we're gonna try to make them at Tesla, but even that will take time. And so we're limited by this. And so I'm throwing all my weight into whatever is the limiting factor at any given time in this business.

14:14 And so it ended up with like F it we're gonna launch These data centers in space, that's the way to get around this limiting factor. But over and over and over again in the whole podcast. It's basically like the formula is like identify the limiting factor and then go apeshit to get over it. And most people don't do either of the two. They don't actually correctly uh address or identify the limiting factor.

14:35 And then if the even if they did, they don't go ap shit, right? Um and so ever since this podcast it like Any meeting I've had, so like you know, I check in with kind of my portfolio companies. And I've just gone full Elon on them where I'm just like So we want this outcome.

14:49 What's the limiting factor? And then the CEO will talk for five minutes. I'm like, Cool, you didn't answer my question. What's the limiting factor? Well the limiting factor is X. Okay, great. Why are you talking about all these other things besides X? X is the limiting factor. So all we're gonna focus on is X.

15:03 Okay. Well what does that okay, so what does that mean? N now you now once you identify that, you need to drop everything else, just focus on X and then go ap shit on it. And he would say he's like In my companies, if something's going something is going well, you're not gonna see me. Right now the boring company's going well. I don't spend any time on it because it's going well. If it hits a roadblock and there's a limiting factor and they can't solve it.

15:25 Then I will come in and I'll throw my full force, my full weight at it. And I just thought this simple operating philosophy, I think can serve a lot of people is to identify the limiting factor. And then figure out how to throw your entire weight against it. And um, you know, sort of if you gotta go over the wall, over the through the wall, around the wall, under the wall, whatever you gotta do, you gotta get past that wall. Like I don't know, like I don't know if you want to play the game, but like right now, let's take Hampton, for example.

15:48 What's the limiting factor in Hampton? Thought exercise. Yeah, so we basically only do two things. We get the best people to join a core group and then we allow them to have good conversations. And so for us the limiting factor in order to ex uh expand to chapters uh globally is to get more of the The best people. So uh more people.

16:05 What's the limiting factor on mortgage people? Well, I I could probably make a list of five things that we could do. For example, we could ask for referrals more than we do. We could probably spend more on advertising. So okay, so those would be solutions, but just one level deeper into the problem. So like we have a lot of people, they're not good. Yeah. We have good people, but we just don't have enough of them appl like we don't have enough people applying, period. We're limiting our prospects to only thirteen cities.

16:28 So we need to open that up in order We we have thousands and thousands of people applying every single month, but we limit it only to thirteen cities. So what what's the limited factor of opening up thirteen more cities? Just bandwidth probably of like

16:42 having someone really focus on a particular city because once one person joins or a prospect shows interest in let's say Birmingham, how do we find seven other people who are interested? And then the way that we will eventually scale that is we will instead pivot our business to where moderators are basically franchisees owners and they have to go and help recruit seven other people once we give them one person and so they're running their own little coaching business. Right. And so a a useful exercise in this case would be Basically what's stopping us from doing it tomorrow. So let's say tomorrow you wanted to open ten cities.

17:13 What would actually break if you if you open ten cities tomorrow? Well, a customer would potentially be angry'cause they'd have to wait a long time until we found seven other people in let's say Birmingham. And so then you say is that true? Is there is there not are do we have uh So to have ten cities you need how many members? Like to activate that city?

17:34 Um well you just need one core group of eight people. So you need so you need eighty people. So you need uh eight per city. Um Do you have Eight do you have eight?

17:44 That are ready to open one city tomorrow, or no? Like could you open one tomorrow? Yes. 'Cause you've been two tomorrow. Probably

17:52 Mm maybe. But like it would get hard. I need more I would need more people. And then the question would be like well why do I need more people? Well, you know, why can't I just do it with less people? Uh yeah, yeah. Okay. So so you start to get into like the nuts and bolts of it, right? But like if we just even just look at what just happened, right? It was like uh started with a high level problem. We need more power.

18:11 Right. In your case it was like Uh we need more good people. And then you got to turbines and blades and veins is the limiting factor. Which was like Actually, Mississippi has four people.

18:22 And we need eight. Right. That's the turbine, that's the blades and veins level of detail. Um, and so you know, could you do if we want to do we need to do ten. Could I do one? Yes. Did I do two? No. What happened at two? Why did one to two break? Right. So you sort of okay, there's a limiting factor somewhere between one and two. What's what's different? What's what happened there?

18:41 And also a second ago you were like, We could ask for referrals, we could do X, we could do Y. It's almost like um We jump to solutions really quickly. And what I think actually happens in these companies is we sort of already have in our mind a bunch of pet projects of good ideas. Generically good ideas?

18:59 But not specifically problem solving ideas. And I think the one big sign of one big source of waste in companies is When everybody wants to do their pet projects or everybody wants to do their generically good ideas Rather than the specifically effective ideas.

19:13 that are gonna solve the current bottleneck that is right in front of us. that we could unblock for tomorrow. I think this makes sense. I think it's hard to pull off. I think that like It's hard to pull up just because of interpersonal relationships. A lot of people would like approach this and be like, Well, I'm doing all these other things. Like how dare you like tell me just do this one thing like you don't understand? Like how are we gonna keep the business running? You know what I mean? That's the the the pushback mostly.

19:35 Totally. Uh and and I think that's by the way, that's a very real thing. Like Hey, we're gonna focus on this and it's like, Well, actually you don't really realize I'm holding up this entire ship. By keeping these six trains running on time. And um I have to keep doing that. So a lot of people a lot of times I've seen this where it's like I could tell the good people in my company

19:54 They're like Yeah, I hear what you're saying, and I'm gonna do that. I'm not even gonna Like I'm gonna have to keep some of these

20:00 These trains running and you're I we don't need to discuss it. It ju I just know it needs to get done and blah blah blah. What I've found is pretty effective is to address it in the in the call. So what I'll do is I'll address The trade off. So I'll say So here's what that means.

20:13 By focusing on this, what that means is that this area where we actually know how to improve it and we have a bunch of good ideas and maybe even two things that are in flight. We're actually just not gonna do any of those and we're gonna accept Mediocre progress here. For exceptional progress here. And nobody wants to say that out loud.

20:30 But I'm gonna say it out loud because it's true we have a trade off. Of energy and focus and intention. And if we're gonna move it all over here. That's what that means over there. We're all saying out loud, yes, we understand and accept this. It's like accepting the terms and conditions when you sign up for a website. It's like yes, you're gonna sell my data. So yep.

20:47 Over here we're gonna make Far less progress than we want. And I think this happens throughout life, right? You um You have a kid. And you're like, wow, this is really important. Well, guess what's gonna be a little less important is like your work for the next three months.

21:00 And your gym routine is gonna go out the window. And you just have to like, you know, if you don't accept those trade offs, you're just gonna feel a constant underlying state of anxiety. Or stretch yourself too thin and do a poor job of everything. Uh rather it's actually just better to say well great for this season, this is what matters and I am I'm okay with a

21:19 Less than stellar rate of progress. I will only do this amount to keep this running. But beyond that I will not be doing. for this next period of time. Are you good at not bitching at them about why this thing sucks? For example, for the hustle, it was um Uh grow email list.

21:35 Therefore, social media does not matter. And then I wouldn't have a lot of people. Why is our social media suck? Yeah. Uh well I give them permission to Vermont. I mean we put the

21:46 the thing right in front of us, like front and center. We like I I'm I'm a obnoxious repeater. So like every day when I start my day I will Say, Hey, here's our goals for the year. Here's the things we said matter. Here's what matters this week. And I'm like a bot. Um, but'cause I realize like if I don't keep repeating it, people don't even know what we're trying to do.

22:05 Um and we don't like So I try to get a really crisp Set of things. Crilli really crisp, clear set of things we're doing. And I I will repeat it so much. To the point that

22:15 I myself remember we said social media doesn't matter. All that matters is going email list. And they have permission to be like, Wait. But social media doesn't matter. All that matters is the list. And it takes some time to work together where you kind of screw that up. It's like You refer you like why why was this last month not as pr productive as we wanted?

22:33 And then you sort of come to the pow wow and reali realise like Well, it's because we said we were gonna focus on these things, but then we kept getting distracted and You know, wanted to also do these five other things, and guess what? When we try to do it all, like we can have anything, we just can't have everything all at once. And you learn that the hard way once, twice, and it's like, you know, George Bush, you know, fo fool me once, shame on me fool me twice, don't fool me again. You know, it becomes that at a certain point. So the good thing, you know, I've worked with Ben for like six years.

23:01 So we kinda know, like, yo, we've stepped in that gum before, like, do we really want that on our shoe again? I can kinda see it coming if we're gonna do this. Or you're saying this. But remember. This is like that other time, so let's just stay focused. You threw that George B Bush quote in there, like you're a rapping.

23:17 Seamless. That was great. Well what's the quote? Fool me once. Uh shame on me, fool me twice, don't fool me again. Yeah, he like loses the quote, so he's like f Fool me twice, uh Don't you can't be fooling me. It's like an old timer. Ha ha.

23:34 Today's episode is brought to you by HubSpot. Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book, but then tearing out four fifths of the pages. Point is you miss a lot. And unless you're using HubSpot, the customer platform that gives you access to the data you need to grow your business, the insights that are trapped in emails, call logs, transcripts, all that unstructured data makes all the difference because when you know more, you grow more. And so if you want to read the whole book instead of just reading part of it, visit hubspot.com. Can I show you one other clip that I thought was pretty Just

24:03 Uh I don't know. Wild. From Elon? Yeah. Is it the clip about how he lied about uh not going to Jeffrey Epstein's Island?

24:11 No. Did he go, actually? Um, I'm not sure if he went or not, but he said that he uh refused to go. But the email say that he was actually begging to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, we're gonna be around the town. You guys got anything going on? Yeah, definitely. Um, all right, watch this.

24:29 Fastly more intelligent than humans. So in some sense you're like a doomer and this is like the best we've got. It's just like it keeps it around because we're interesting. I'm I'm just trying to be realistic here. Um if If we have if if if uh AI intelligence is vastly more

24:42 If AI is like Yeah, uh Let's say that there's a there's a million times. Or Uh Select Intelligence than there is biological.

24:52 Um It's it's I think it's it it would be uh foolish to assume that that there's any any way to maintain control over over that. Now you can make sure it has the right values, or we can try to have have the the right values. Okay, so I I don't know if I I think I might have taken the wrong time step a little bit there, but Uh fifty minutes in and they're they barely drink their their drink. No, there's refills. There's refills. Well one of the funny jokes is that Dorcash doesn't touch his pint.

25:14 Uh, he just keeps bringing it up to his mouth and it just wets his beard and then it goes back down with the same amount in it. While the other guys are just like crushing them. Um Alright, so here's what he says about AI. So the the The topic is Um

25:28 How do you make sure that uh AI You know, ends up being good for humanity. And he says something where he goes. Uh, they were like they were like, How do you stay in control? And he says Um if you have intelligence that's a hundred times smarter than any human.

25:43 It's hard to imagine that the humans stay in control. And then the second thing then they go, So wait, are you like a doomer here? Like, you know You just think we're doomed? And he goes I'm just trying to be realistic here.

25:55 If AI is vastly more intelligent. Like there's a million more times. silicon intelligence to biological. I think it would be foolish to believe that we can maintain control over that. All you could do is try to make sure it has the right values. Like kind of like basically like it goes on like that it would keep us around.

26:14 And I just thought that's a pretty stunning admission. For a guy who's building AI. To basically say out loud. Um This thing is gonna be so much smarter than humans and when it is, the idea that

26:29 the human like the chimps are gonna stay in control of the humans, like That the humans are gonna be in control of this thing that's a hundred times or a thousand times or a million times. It doesn't make sense to me because it's foolish. Like uh you know, the ego is the reason why like Napoleon's Napoleon. You know, like the reason to dom like there like d does does a computer have the need to dominate? It's not even that it dominates.

26:51 It's that we don't control it. So for example, like if we say, Cool, I want you to run all decisions by me. But it makes decisions a thousand times better than any human alive in the history of mankind. Realistically if you gave it the mission of being successful, is it actually gonna run the run the decisions by you? But that's what I'm asking. Does it actually have the mission to be successful? Like a human has Well, you're gonna give it to the even if even if the human is the one prompting it. Say hey, I want you to make this thing really I want you to help me become president. I want you to uh build this successful company, I want you to build this technology.

27:22 Do you think after that it's going to Care? Well you could turn it off if you turned it on. That's my point. Like Like

27:30 humans have a compulsion to be right, to a lot of humans have a compulsion to be nice, to reciprocate. It does it have compulsions. And so like can can you can you churn it the way that you just told it to dominate or to win, can you also say When you might. Then the next guy says, No, I wanna win.

27:47 Stay on. All it takes is one guy to to not turn it off, right? Like the same thing with one country. To not have safeguards on it. Have you seen the AI social network where they're like all AI guys talking about like how they're gonna dominate humans? Yeah, although that might be like kinda faked. It's unclear at this point if that's fake or real. Like it might be that

28:06 Humans are saying Say something like this'cause it freaks everybody out, goes viral. Have you seen this? He Elon tweeted this. This uh meme. I don't want to live in a world where someone else makes humans irrelevant before we do. That does how that is kinda how it feels.

28:20 It um but like Yeah I hope he's wrong. Yeah, even with SpaceX, uh you know, he's talking about like You know, the goal is for you know, the the original mission with SpaceX is to like preserve the he calls it like the candle of consciousness. Like basically like What if something happened to Earth, if we're a single planet species, like all consciousness could get wiped out?

28:40 Uh, it should be really important that we're multiplanetary species. So that like really good phrase human consciousness or intelligence, like, you know, lives on. And in this interview he kinda backs off that. He's like, you know, consciousness is We don't really know what that is. So let's just say intelligence. Um 'Cause X AI just merged with SpaceX? He's like, so you know

28:58 At least intelligence will propagate through the internet. It's basically like The robots and the chips and the AI will Well definitely. Be multiplanetary, whether we are or not, like He basically his argument and so to our cast is like why do you think that they would care that humans survive?

29:13 And he's like, Well Um You know, there's no reason to kill us. Like, that's not very reassuring. Was essentially the way that that he put it. He's like, you know Humans are interesting and we're part of consciousness. So like if you want to maximally expand consciousness, you would keep humans around, right? There's not a big advantage to doing it. It's like whoa. If that's what if that's the last if that's the moral victory we're clinging to, this is a pretty um

29:36 startling thing. So I just thought that's that's a kind of crazy admission that that he was making. Can I tell you two other just insane things from this? So he's talking about what he's doing with his AI project, which I don't think he's ever really talked about before. Have you ever heard of this macro hard project? Yeah. What's it called? Macro hard. Yeah, like like the like the seventy for thirty or what's that called seventy for seventy, where you gotta like run a mile every day for seventy days. Seventy hard.

30:01 No, no, he made it the opposite of Microsoft. So he's like, What's the opposite of Microsoft? It's macro hard. And basically what he was doing what he's doing is he's building what he calls human emulators. So here's the Elon uh philosophy or the like strategy that kind of got revealed during this podcast. So the strategy is How do you win? Um

30:20 Well He goes, if you think in the limit, what is the m what is the most that AI can do before b before you have like robots? That are you know. Um Like artificially intelligent robots, which they're trying to build at Tesla, right? So Tesla's building Optimus, which is the robot that can do any of the work that a human could do.

30:38 Um And Yeah, that's that's robots. He goes, What's the so what is he doing with his software play? It's He goes, Think in the limit. Well the limit is If you're not in a robot.

30:48 It's anything a human can do on a computer. And so he's like, um Basically he's I think he says within Like twelve or twenty four months, he believes that AI will be able to do anything that a human can do on a computer.

31:03 So uh he calls it a h so they're building what they call the human emulator. So it's a Uh AI that can work like do anything a human could do with a computer. So like I have an executive assistant. So the idea would be. Obviously the AI would be able to do everything she does for me. So researching things, booking things, uh, you know, making anything happen. That's obviously there. But also you and I doing this podcast, if we can do this online, that means that AI should be able to do this online.

31:26 It should be able to produce An interesting podcast twice a week. About You know Business trends, opportunities, uh ideas that are related to entrepreneurship for business junkies just like us.

31:37 And it should be able to have a sense of humor, but bring to the table three or four really interesting topics per per episode. Um so AI should be able to do that because this is done online. So he goes anything that's moving electrons The AI should be able to do. And they go, Well, how are you trying to solve that? And he goes like So do you want me to just give away all my secrets on a podcast? Like that would be sort of stupid, right? Like I'm in the the most competitive game in the world right now. Is to create this.

32:01 He calls it the highest Elo battle in the world. Uh being Like you know the chest rankings, like the ELO r your ELO ratings? So he's like the highest Elon needs a wedgie man. This guy's hilarious. Macro hard humid emulator. This is crazy. So he's like, um you know, I he's like he's like it'll take at least three more beers for me to get you know to reveal that. But he's like

32:22 It'll be something like the way that Tesla solves self driving. And then they were like Okay, unrelated question, how did Tesla sell self driving? And he's like Well, what it d you know, what it did was it used very basic sensors, the s the same sort of sensors that humans have. Cam in this case, you know, mostly cameras, eyes, vision. And it watched humans drive a lot.

32:43 Like millions and millions and millions and millions of miles. And then it tried to emulate what they would do. So it tries to while you're driving, it tries to guess what you would do. And any time there's a difference, it notes it. And it tries to learn from other people in similar situations until it can

32:59 Basically match what a human would do while driving. And that's what Tesla self driving does. And so similarly what they're doing with the human emulators is They're basically getting tons and tons of tr data of humans using computers. And they're using that to teach computers how to use computers. And that's where this is going for Macrohard.

33:15 And then he talked about on the robot side. They like that. Is that a is Macroh a company? I don't know if it's a project or a company. I think it's a project within XAI. I don't think it's a separate company. Um How many people work at X AI?

33:29 Is that is X AI considered Twitter now? Same company. They did merge. X AI and X merged and now and now that merged with SpaceX. And okay, so now let's talk about the robots thing real quick. So he goes. Um, the Optimus robot he go he he goes, it's the infinite money glitch.

33:51 Because labor is the biggest market in the world. And if you can have robots that can do human labor. And specifically, once the once the robot can build more robots, that's the infinite money glitch. So basically once Optimists can build more Optimus. It's over.

34:05 Um and he's like And they were like, Well, how will you do the emulator thing?'Cause Tesla made sense, right? Humans bought the cars and drove them around. So that gave you all the training data of how to drive. And with Macro hard. Theoretically you could have you could have a bunch of you know humans using computers and emulate it.

34:22 But how do you do the robot one? There's not enough robots to learn from. And so he said he's building this warehouse where ten thousand robots will be able to self play. So it's basically this giant warehouse where ten thousand robots are a bunch of toddlers. Walking around trying to figure out how to do tasks.

34:38 Like pick this up. Move this here. Try this. Work together on this. You know, build this box without it breaking, you know, whatever. And they're not gonna tell them how to do it. They're just gonna self play over and over and over again until they figure it out. The same way they're gonna be. They're gonna like come in after three weeks and they're gonna be like trying to like solve the like bars to get out. You know what I mean? Like they're like escaping prison. So so like this is how um

35:02 they beat they built the best chess engines and go engines was instead of telling it strategies and rules They just said play ten million games and figure it out. All you know is the rules of where the pieces can move. Like Piece this pawn can move forward. The bishop can move diagonally. That's all we tell you. And we'll tell you that winning is good.

35:20 Go. And it played like ten million games and it became the best chess player in the world. They did it with Go, it became the best Go player ever. Um now he's doing the same thing with robots, but I thought how crazy is that gonna be? There's just the self play warehouse. Where the robots are trying to figure out how to do stuff. Where is it gonna be? Where's this gonna be? Uh I don't know, you didn't give me the address, but it it sounds pretty awesome, right?

35:40 They gotta put like uh you know, they got like puppy cams at like doggy like doggy daycare. Uh you know we we need that. Tell me I wouldn't be watching that thing four hours a day. This is like whenever we talk about this, my fight or flight response goes up hardcore. Can I ask what's the

36:00 Okay, so I have this theory that basically A thing happens. We give it a meaning. The meaning just decides the feeling. You told me about the thing happening, hearing about

36:10 All these exciting AI breakthroughs. You told me the feeling, which is like Kind of fight or flight fear, anxiety. Uh exhaustion. What's the meaning you're putting on all this that's making you feel that way? What does it mean that Elon's doing this or that

36:23 These tools are rapidly advancing or there's new tools every day. What's the meaning you're putting on that? I'm falling behind. You ha yeah, you ha you either got to get on or get off and you have to ch you have to adapt Faster than ever before in order to keep up. And All these opportunities are flying by and you know, what's the phrase like opportunities like trains. Thankfully there's always another one, but these trains are moving real fast and I don't even know if I can grab it if I don't catch on when it's at it when it's at the stop.

36:49 And what happens if you don't catch on? Well, I'm lucky. I'm in a point in my life where like if I don't catch on like I just I'm nothing. Like I I'm safe. But like as an opportunity loving entrepreneur, like there are like You know?

37:04 You do feel FOMO and also there is fear. There's a bit of fear, but it's weird. You have to like think about it. I'm lucky, I'm not fearful entirely of myself, but I still feel that like humanity is like changing and it's scary. Yeah. It's just change. It's and change is good and bad. But it's just like А не спід.

37:22 of of things. It is incredible. I mean I remember in two thousand and twenty one my friend was telling me about open AI and thinking about joining the company and I was like, I don't know, man, this is this legit. Like who knows? That was only five years ago. And it's like our parents use it. You know, like it it's pretty much pretty. Which is crazy. It's astounding. It's crazy. It's wild. Like And

37:42 There's a different tool every single day and they're so good. Yeah. I I guess I just uh I think we should leave it with the optimistic version of that, which is um There's never been more opportunity than this. That If you're good.

37:57 You get to lever up. And like whatever your whatever your output was gonna be, you can sort of tend to hundreds that using these tools. You don't need to use all of them. You don't need to catch every opportunity. Catching any piece of this.

38:10 Is gonna be huge. Um catch any piece of this at all is gonna put you in the top one percent. Cause if we're feeling this We have to remember the whole world is not Uh if if it's all about change and adaptation, who better than us? to you know who better than the type of person that listens to this podcast?

38:25 Um than to take advantage of that. Like You know. Ninety nine point nine nine nine nine nine percent of the world doesn't even listen to a podcast like this. If you're listening to the positive podcast like this, you're already in the point one percent. Of Uh you know, adaptability of change of future promise.

38:42 And so you're better positioned than anybody to to take advantage. Yeah. The problem is we compare To the e we two decimal places over and we're like, but Elon's doing this, but this guy's doing this, right? And it's like you don't have to be them to to win. In fact, uh, you know, we sort of stand on the shoulders of giants. I have a friend who um was telling me his father owns a nursing home company. Or something like that. It's like at home care.

39:06 And he's like My dad's In his seventies, he lived in The Midwest and It's very

39:12 The business does ninety million a year in revenue. Eight million a year in profit. And I told him about AI and he had never heard of it. Like he didn't even know what that word meant. Like it wasn't even like and he's like I went to his office and it was like eighty employees and they all look like the same woman over and over and over again of like, you know, have you ever seen Fair's Beeler's Day off like the secretary, like with like that haircut? He's like they like that word AI, they they literally didn't know what it was.

39:37 And uh it's just crazy how um How much opportunity. I'm like, How much do they spend on payroll? He's like, They spend eight million dollars a year on payroll and I was like, What are they doing? And he explained, I'm like That's crazy. That's just like that one little business that you've never even heard of in the middle of Missouri. That just unlocked eight million dollars a year probably in value. Uh someone can go and do.

39:57 Right, right. All right, let's take a quick break because I gotta tell you a story. Let me tell you about the first time I tried to run payroll for my team. I was using a traditional bank and you know the type. It's got a janky interface. It's built like a two thousand and two tax form and it was open only during business hours. And I hit send. And it froze. They flagged the transaction, they locked my account, they put me on hold for 45 minutes, and then they told me I gotta visit my local branch. And that was the day I started looking for a new banking solution. Uh after asking a few founders what they were using, I found out about Mercury.

40:25 And so now my payroll is two clicks. I can wire money, I can pay invoices, I can reimburse the team. All from one clean dashboard. That's why I use it for all of my companies. And so do two hundred thousand other startup founders. And so if you're looking to level up your banking, head to Mercury.com and apply in minutes.

40:41 Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Bank the services are provided through Choice Financial Group, Column NA, and Evolve Bank and Trust members FDIC. All right, listen, Sean, you're getting dumber. Am I? Well, we all are. So Uh, I'm reading this book called Stolen Focus,'cause I'm I'm basically like

40:58 incredibly depressed by the fact that like I get ten thousand notifications a day and it's like impacting my mood. And so I saw this book called Stolen Focus. Have you ever seen it? Well I saw it, but then I looked away. Great. Good joke. Um But it kinda got me interested, and it's coincidental, just last month Uh this one neural uh neuroscientists did this thing in front of Congress, this testimony or whatever in front of Congress, where he basically said that this is the first time in history of measuring this since the eighteen eighties that the current generation, Gen Z, is dumber.

41:29 Then the the generation above them. So have you heard of the heard of the uh Flint effect? No. So basically since like the eighteen hundreds, since like we started like measuring IQ at a large uh level. Every generation is roughly ten points higher than the previous generation. So every thirty years it goes up by ten points, or every ten years it goes up three points. Which is kinda cool because that means that the average person today would have been

41:52 uh gifted in like nineteen hundred. And so it's been going up for a variety of reasons. One education, diet, a bunch of different stuff. But starting in two thousand ten. They notice a decline. And this isn't just in America. It's in uh Norway they notice as a a bunch of different countries. I think eighty different countries have actually studied the same thing. This isn't just an American thing. But starting since two thousand ten, there's been a decline. And so now officially Uh according to like um I think a sample size of like eight hundred thousand test subjects.

42:19 Gen Z is the first generation, I think since eighteen hundred. That has a lower IQ from the generation before. Is that insane? They blew it. We had it going. We had a trend going. We had a streak going. So all right, the float influenct is the long term study Showing an increase in standardized IQ test scores observed through the

42:37 Uh, twentieth century, about three points per decade, as you said. Primarily due to environmental factors such as education, nutrition, smaller family sizes, more technology rather than genetic changes. It's most significant in test measuring fluid intelligence, which is problem solving, rather than crystallized intelligence, which is acquired knowledge. It highlights that in uh intelligence is heavily influenced by environment, blah blah blah. Okay, great. And then you're saying recently

43:02 recently it's not holding uh Gen Z the first generation to score lower than their predecessors and they have this just this picture Of someone is the headline article, which is always great. Jed Z is like uh gayer than every f ever before. They like zoom it on you. Yeah. I'm never just gonna pose for a picture without asking what it's for again. Um Gen Z, is that I think two thousand ten onwards? Uh so people who are like uh sixteen years old, I think Maybe ten to sixteen.

43:38 Um Something like that. Is that right? Uh Ninety seven

43:45 To twenty twelve. Sorry, I got that way off. Yeah, you're right. Gen Alpha. Uh okay, so they're like what, twenty five right now? Um and so what You can guess probably. What do you think has caused this? Well yeah, just seems like the sort of

43:59 Brain rot. The brain rot consumption, right? Like it's like diet. Why are we getting fatter? And then you go to the grocery store and you see that a grocery store is basically lead gen for a hospital, right? It's just a sugar factory. So yeah so you know it's not a big surprise. So the correlation, um, and I think there's causation proof, but the correlation is certainly the rise of smartphones and social media. It kinda got me thinking, like I I think that we talked about inflection points on this podcast about businesses. So inflection points means a tech inflection. Meaning everyone has a smartphone and thus G we all have GPSs. Therefore new businesses can launch like Uber because of it.

44:36 Or a regulation inflection. During COVID, doctors were able to prescribe medication virtually. So that created telehealth. I think that we haven't gotten to the inflection point yet. But in the next ten to twenty years, we're going to see an inflection point with a variety of cultural changes, a cultural inflection, and potentially a regulatory inflection. I actually think there might be something there. Uh where we're gonna see a lot of different opportunities in businesses and just like cultural change due to the uh lack of focus. Have we call this like the a focus Or attention inflection.

45:09 I think that we are at the very early stages of that. And I had like uh some ideas that I think could thrive there. But I wanted to hear Have you noticed this in your life? Like have you noticed that you are changing your like is there like a per like a like a household uh inflection going on? We're all getting dumber, you mean? Well, you're like combating this. Well

45:30 Yeah. To combat this over the weekend. My wife was like, Oh my God, did you see what Trump Tweeted. And I was like, no.

45:39 And then like an hour later uh we're so then that conversation happens. And an hour later they were like Oh, you hear about the The the news anchor whose mom got kidnapped? And I was like, No. And then there was like another th a third story and and I again I was like, No, don't know anything about that. And I think I'm been totally fine without it. And I kinda realized I this like

46:02 I don't know. Y you know when you get happy that you're better than everyone else? That's kind of where I was. I was in that that beautiful state of mind. Yeah, I was in a I was in a smug, smug state of mind. Yeah, exactly. I went to the admissions shop and uh Sure enough, smug check. You did not pass the smug check. I don't listen to the news. I don't watch the news and I just

46:27 I was thinking about this, I was like Dude, imagine if every day you just woke up And then instead of focusing on your life You just said distract me with everybody else's problems. And then then the people tell you about a problem happening three thousand miles away, another one happening nine thousand miles away, another one that happened ten years ago, and one that might happen ten years from now.

46:48 And then you got your brain gets to think about all that shit instead of what's going on in your life. And That's essentially what it is if you're a regular consumer of the news. And the news is one of these things that Today at least there's like a half.

47:01 warning label on it, but it the warning label's like fake news. It's like you need real news, not fake news. And actually the answer is less news. You just need Way less news than you're currently consuming. You don't need to know the stock price right now. You don't need to know the Bitcoin price right now. You don't need to know what's happening in DC. You don't need to know any of that stuff. And I I think uh and some people will argue the exact opposite. They'll say, Oh my God, you're So uncivically minded and You really need to care about what's going on with other people in the world.

47:27 And you and you're like, guys, it's not my ability to not watch snooze, it's the fact that I lied to get out of jury duty and I told them that my wife is uh a drug addict and I had to be over with the kids. That is why I'm not civically binded. Yeah, this is not the correct argument. This is not the correct evidence. I've given you the right evidence for that. I would say on the whole an overconsumption of news. Is uh I've seen this just one major leak people have in their life. Uh I guess the answer is not zero, but Definitely not the set point that most people have. It's like their thermostat is set to eighty eight degrees in their house and they're wondering why they're sweating all day. This is just overconsumption of content in general, one of which is news, and then the other is social media. I told you my challenge this year.

48:09 was I deleted all the social media off my phone. And so well, that definitely changes things, right? Because I get back a couple hours a day of a time and attention. Um, but it's not even really the hours, it's kinda the moments. It's like, oh, I like every time I open my phone I type in X to open Twitter. It's weird, right? And that all all my phone has is the Xfinity app. And I'm like, I guess I could check my internet speed right now. That's all I could do.

48:33 It's like when you were a grown up and you would sit down and you'd start reading the back of the cereal box or when you're on the toilet, you like read the shampoo ingredients. No, seriously, that's happening to me all the time now. So I'm like okay, what the hell am I gonna think about it, you know? Like and then I think about important things and think about things that are m like really meaningful to me, like what I'm gonna do that day. My Time, my precious asset. I think about my kids and where they're at. And I think about I start thinking about other things because I created space. I think that space is the thing that most people are lacking out of. So yes, in in my household, I've felt this especially this year. Because I deleted social media and I was totally

49:05 Like anybody else, a social media addict. Right. And it became more obvious than ever that Um like you don't notice the addiction till you feel the withdrawal. And um that's you know the phase that I went in the first month of this year as I deleted all these apps is the the withdrawal of like I keep checking my phone, I just keep getting into the Xfinity app. Dude, I'm like a fact checker. Uh addict. Like I uh I get addicted to social media, but then it's like um someone will be debating something. Try to see if like

49:33 Like how old's Tom Brady? Uh you know what I mean? I'm like, Well I'll just tell you right now. Or you know, like You know, like we were debating you like, Man, Trump's, you know, seventy six, that's so old. R actually. You know, like you useless facts Yeah, like if I type I right now for Instagram, I get Instacart.

49:52 And I get I Aqualink, which controls my pool temperature. Like those are my options for those are my options for distraction, for voluntary distraction from Um you know from the world. So my prediction is that um we are going to look at this problem the same way we look at obesity. We're gonna like look at this stuff and we're gonna say there are some people who can just put it down and just walk away. You know, there are some people like, Well, just just stop. Just don't do it. It's like, Well, but like

50:18 This processed food is like addicting and it triggers something in my brain and it makes it almost impossible. So I think that what we're gonna see. is that um this is gonna shift from what it is now to like either we ignore it Or Uh We think it's just like a small problem to it's an environmental problem.

50:35 And there has to be changes and and I I have a few ideas like on what could be cool. But I think that the the I think that this is this you referenced another study before that I thought was fascinating. Explain that one again, the trained classroom study. I thought this was like A really important Do you remember this one? It was like something about the noise from a train and just that like A train went by in the classroom was lowering their score. What was it again? Yeah, so basically um the the the hypothesis was do does does noise interruption impact people's focus?

51:05 And a study looked at something like two or three or four hundred thousand children. and in school in the fourth grade and he looked at kids that were under an overpass of a train or nearby a train and kids who weren't. And they found that the kids that read silently without the interruption of a train passing by, uh retained information significantly higher. I don't remember the points, but basically just that decibel level, even if it was um Intermittent. Yeah.

51:31 significantly impacted their ability to retain information that they were reading. Right. Um but did you see the uh Pavel Durov. Tweet he had for on on New Year's.

51:43 Did you see this thing? Okay, so Pavel is the founder of uh Telegram, which is like one of the biggest messaging apps in the world. He also started One of the biggest social networks in the world before that, the it's like the Facebook of Russia. And isn't he like the f the father of a hundred kids, too? Yeah, and he's like

51:58 built like a Greek god and he's brilliant and he's super rich and she's got a great jawline. Can't say enough good things about this guy. I don't know if you know the story, when they asked him for for access to all the data. And they wanted a backdoor, he said no. And then they sent him like an official notice and he sent back an official response, which was a dog wearing a hoodie, like flicking off the camera. And then he left the country. And then they took his social network, but he was like, Fine, take it, but you're not gonna Yeah, I'm not gonna give you access. He tweeted out this year, he goes.

52:30 This year I wish you less. Less information, less food, less entertainment, less communication, less stimulation. You already have too much of that and it stands in the way of your certainty, health, sleep, and creativity. Merry Christmas. And I just remember like that really stood out to me and I I like it.

52:46 And obviously I agree with it, but the s the part that I think is more interesting is This guy created you know, one of the biggest messaging apps and social networks in the world. He doesn't use his phone. Wha uh so I don't know anything about that. What what do you mean he doesn't use his phone? He doesn't have a phone. He's like if something needs to get to me, like

53:03 Somebody will Bring me the message if it's really important. And he's like, I just don't Use or look at my phone. Um like I think it's either either at all or m most of the day. He does not look at a at a I don't know

53:15 And he was like and then you know, um You know, Steve Jobs. You know, he'll invent the iPad and the iPhone, but at home his kids don't use it. Zuckerberg, his kids aren't on social media. It's like Do as they do. Not as they say.

53:28 That you should do. Right. Like you guys should use this. But we're gonna do this. Like I don't think the You know, I I don't know if what the executives at at Craft do or the food scientists at Kraft do, but I don't think they're Given their kids. Craft mac and cheese.

53:43 Every day, right? Uh you should have it, for sure. Please buy it. But But we're not gonna eat that shit. And I think that that's kind of where where I stand with like the social distraction focusing obviously it's super hard, right? Like But

53:56 But I seems like the fight worth fighting is kind of what you're you're bringing up here. Well, I personally think that. Yeah. I I think it's a fight worth fighting, but I also th I'm just acknowledging that this is gonna be a trend. I think that what we're gonna see is that there's gonna be like these classes where like the upper class, the rich people who don't have to be on their phone or computer all the time, they're they're gonna know that this is an issue. Um sort of like it's a little bit different now, but sort of like In the nineties and early two thousand, whole foods was a luxury. So health food was a luxury. And so I think that's what's gonna happen here, which is sad, but I think that's just probably naturally how things are uh kind of

54:29 Play out almost all the time. We've seen this on the podcast. We've had Guys who come on here. We I remember there's one guy who uh owns an NBA team is billionaire. And um We were like are you

54:40 Doing this podcast from a phone? And he was like, uh yeah. I don't like I don't own a laptop. And then we we were like, uh Can you move the thing? And he's like uh there was somebody he's like, I don't know what this is. He's like somebody set this up, I'm here, and then I'm leaving and this is I don't really even understand what's What this is. And we yesterday or I sorry not yesterday, last week I did a call with A guy who's the richest guy of a country.

55:05 Not the biggest country in the world, but he's the richest guy of that country. So, you know, very wealthy multi billionaire, probably worth ten, twenty billion dollars. He was trying to screen share. During our call. And he's like He's like

55:16 We were in Zoom. And he's like, I'd like to show you this, but Uh, and I know I can, but where do I go? And I was basically tech support for this guy. I was like, look at the bottom. Of Zoom, there's a thing called share. It's like a little square with a thing and he's like, Okay Oh, it says I need to have a

55:33 A different browser. And we were like Are you not using Chrome? He's like No, what is what is Chrome? I was like, wow. He's like, Yeah, usually just like people do the stuff for me. I've like abstracted myself away. From Like my computer, from tech problems, from being from having to like set these things up and be like you know, to to to do the stuff myself, to be hands on with it.

55:56 Um and I feel like there's like you're saying like a Almost like a wealth or a status thing here where like The wealthier you get, the more you're going to be able to abstract away from some of these tools, right? From from s from digital, you know, digital dopamine.

56:13 Yeah, yeah, I for sure think that's gonna happen. But I think that it it will get to the masses eventually. I think that's just like how things work. I think that um So listen, tell me tell me what you think about these two or three ideas I have. So I think that have you ever done a VO two max test? No. Uh, do you know what it is? Y yeah, you put on a like a Bane oxygen mask and you run on a treadmill, I think.

56:33 Basically, yes. Uh no different than like the combine idea you had. It's just like a way to measure how good is your heart. You use it oftentimes to figure out where's your max heart rate and at like what level can you run comfortably in zone two for an extended period of time. That's like why endurance athletes use it. So You exercise on a treadmill or bike. With increasing intensity and the mask you're wearing analyzes your oxygen consumption and CO two production until you reach exhaustion. Okay. Gotcha.

56:58 And so I think that we can I think here's the business idea. I think that we're gonna see like a VO two max Test? For attention. It sounds hilarious. I'm telling you, I think this is gonna be. You just sit in a room and they see how long it takes you to like it's like the marshmallow test.

57:14 Like how long it takes to pick up the phone. Have you ever felt like This kind of this is I don't know exactly how to explain it, but have you ever felt like your nervous system being fried? Where you're like, I'm just like my anxiety was too high. Like I just I've been I was in um fight or flight too much. Have you ever felt that feeling? Hundred percent. Yeah.

57:30 Do you ever get that looking at your phone? I get it all the time. I feel like I almost It's

57:38 What it should be. Is that you're in The normal state, which I think is called like parasympathetic or whatever nervous system. And then you go into fire flight when there's like this extreme stimulus. I think for me it's almost the opposite. I think for most people it's probably the opposite in modern day, which is

57:53 You're always running with this sort of baseline anxiety fight or flight type of response. And then you remind yourself to take a breath, go for a walk, put it away, and you you sort of come down off of it and you re re re regulate yourself. And I maybe I just live in San Francisco and I'm around too many like kinda tech Uh you know, add addicts, but

58:12 But I think it's almost what what whatever the ratio is, it should be like ninety ten or whatever. I think it's almost the opposite, or it's fifty it's a terrible ratio. And I believe that one of the best ways to lose weight is to weigh yourself every single day. What gets measured gets change. And I think that we could see you you can measure like your nervous system. There are ways to measure it. Your your resting heart weight rate and like for example, just like pulling up your phone, your heart rate could go up. I mean there there are there are ways to do it. I don't know exactly all the ways, but I think that like there's this huge uh um group of people doing like uh prenovo like all these like measuring things

58:44 And I think that we are gonna see this for nervous system or attention. Like it'll be advertised towards like let's see where you rank or where you are, like in terms of attention. And we're gonna tell you how fried you are, and then we're gonna give you a plan on how to get unfried and you can come and measure it. Uh you can come and and and remeasure your body fat in six months. Yeah, I think that's very true. Um Wh when I've been coaching this basketball team, one of the things I find myself saying a lot to the guys is Concentration is a skill.

59:10 Um because you know, the players when they come into the gym, they think you know they'll Ooh, through the legs, behind the back, you know, whatever. And they think that's the skill they need to do well in the game. And I'll tell her like how often do you do this move? Pretty much never. That's not even your role on the team is to do

59:26 moves like this to score. Um, for the most part, what we want you doing is playing really, really, really hard. And concentrating on the task at hand, like being where you're supposed to be during the play. Focusing on where the ball is versus your man versus whatever And we have some really talented guys who don't get in the game because we don't trust

59:45 Their intensity or their concentration. And I've been trying to tell them like those two things are a skill. They don't sound like skills. They sound like Effort. But effort's a skill. Like these all of these things are skilled. There's a guy on our team, Sam, who's not the most talented. But his

1:00:00 Ability to s to ratchet up his intensity. And then sustain that throughout the game. Like he's puked during three games this year. He just throws he work he plays so hard he throws up. In the middle of the game.

1:00:14 And we're that's the only time he comes out of the game is to throw up, basically, and he goes right back in. And I'm like, Do you need a towel or some water? Like m you know, like what's going on? He just goes straight back in. It's incredible. And I've realized that Intensity, concentration, the ability to be maximally present. These are not just um

1:00:32 Kind of nice nice to have like soft things. They're hard skills. And you actually need to practice them and get better at them and like what you're saying is If it's a skill, then it can be measured. If it can be measured, it can be approved. Right, and and so on and so forth.

1:00:45 I'll give you two two quick more I think we're gonna see um Remember uh you know Q uh what's it called? Q Mon. Come on. Yeah. It's like got the worst logo ever. It's like a sad kid's face. They hired the artist, they were like, just observe and then draw what you see. Yeah.

1:01:03 I think we're gonna see a coupon for focus for kids. I think kids are gonna impact be impacted by this time, where you're like they're gonna be they're gonna learn like exercises and stuff for focusing. Um, I think we're gonna have like a Maria Condo, but remember Maria Condo? I think we're gonna have a Maria Kondo. You know, Maria Kondo was this I think she was Korean lady who was famous for organizing. I guarantee you're saying her name wrong, by the way. Maria Condo? Marie Condo. That's like a Latina who's a real estate agent. Maria Condo. Her name is Marie Cond. Oh come on, man. I was a Korean lady and all I got wrong with the uh with Maria versus Marie. Hey Maria. Like come on, give me a break.

1:01:45 Alright, it wasn't as far as off a as I thought. So like an influencer who's all about the tidiness of the mind? Yeah, and they're gonna like use their program to create coaches who are gonna like uh come and talk to you and like get your shit right. Like I think the probably the number one affliction for kids is like A D D A D, A D H D, right? And then you have to medicate and all the stuff and it explains why you're bad at school when it's like I don't know. I've seen that same kid focus at Fortnite and Roblox for four hours straight. So what's up with that? Like Perhaps they're just not that interested or the school is not that interesting to them.

1:02:17 Because when they're interested, they seem to lock in. And also they've not used that skill and they need to learn that skill because they're like been fucking on TikTok and it's like swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe. Yeah. W uh so I think you're I think you're absolutely right about that. Um part of it. I also think this is gonna happen for adults. So Yeah, the idea of a gym today. Uh seems totally normal.

1:02:39 But If you rewind, I don't know, two hundred years or something like that, you're like, Yeah, see what's gonna happen is we're gonna send spend all day sitting. Uh, because we're gonna have this like box that we work on. You can s you know use your fingers only to just type on the box. And then because our body's not gonna get any we're not doing any actual work, like the thing you think of w as work today, like agriculture. you know, any sort of like lifting of objects.

1:03:02 We're gonna go to this other p box. This other place and they're gonna just have weights on the ground. And you'd be like, What do you mean, weights? Like Just like a heavy thing and you're gonna pick it up. Pick them up and put them down. Yeah. You can do it ten times for three sets. And then they're just gonna go home.

1:03:18 And you go, what? Why would they do that's crazy, right? And it's like, well, that's what happened. Basically, the more we got away from doing manual labor. We then created this demand, this need for stimulating our bodies with Wait.

1:03:32 Well, I think the same thing gonna happen for intellectual stuff, right? Like already people are like, Well, I could either think about this or I could just ask ChatGPT to think about this. You're just outsource The idea of critical thinking. So I think there's gonna be a place where you go that's essentially uh the gym for your mind. It's gonna be a place you go with a bunch of puzzles. a bunch of thought experiments and riddles and shit like that. And it's gonna be a gym for the mind and it's gonna be where you go to keep your mind active because most of your thinking is now done by the AI chip in your brain. Right. That's

1:03:57 Seems like if you fast forward fifty years. Either we're just gone. Yeah. We have to come up with some way where we're gonna exercise our mind because so much thinking is gonna be done by Yeah, digital.

1:04:09 Visual intelligence. And the last thing is um Justin Mares came on our podcast and he told us about this business that he has or he helped Fund out of I forget his association, but it was basically Justin Mares for the listener. He's like our our buddy who's like a health freak. And he uh has an amazing company called Lightwork. I gotta give him a shout out.

1:04:25 Yeah, lightworkhome.com. Okay, what is this? My wife did it. They come to your house and they kind of inspect it to figure out where things are. Not healthy and where they are. And so they looked at like some of the basic stuff like um

1:04:41 Uh do you need different air filters on your AC, which like everyone does. But then they did other stuff. Like, for example, they educated us, like I have a I had a I have a wifi router like right in my bedstand, like next to my head, and they're like, Check this out. Like the EMF Is like coming to your head right here. Or like I didn't know that. Or they'll be like look at your pillows, what they're made out of. Like you're sleeping on plastic or Uh for us it was like we needed more plants in our house'cause like the CO two levels was shit.

1:05:15 Um like it was like a bunch of stuff like that. It's pretty interesting. Did you end up Like here's my fear with this, right? I do this. And then Anytime audits my thing and tells me where

1:05:27 Something's bad, I'm immediately I The sale is done. It's like well. Is this a Hundred dollar fix, thousand dollar fix, ten thousand dollar fix, or a hundred thousand dollar fix? What what's the damage here? So did you end up doing a bunch of changes?

1:05:40 Mm my thing was mostly like reorganizing or small fixes. I'm also renting. So like there's not like I'm not gonna like change the paint. But I I I I think I think that we're gonna see what He's doing. But for like digital products. Feels to me like today that's something we should do, but nobody wants to do.

1:05:56 And at some point you're right, the inflection it'll tip. It'll go that way. It hasn't happened yet. But it will. All right. Is that it? I've seen That's the part.

1:06:06 I feel like I can rule the world of nowhere. But I want to I'm putting my all in it like a day's all on the roadless travel, never looking back. Alright, my friends, I have a new podcast for you guys to check out. It's called Content Is Profit. And it's hosted by Luis and Fonzi Cameo. After years of building content teams and frameworks for companies like Red Bull and Orange Theory Fitness, Louise and Fonse are on a mission to bridge the gap between content and revenue.

1:06:34 In each episode, you're gonna hear from top entrepreneurs and creators, and you're gonna hear them share their secret and strategies to turn their content into profit. So you can check out content is profit wherever you get your podcasts.

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