Advice Line with Angie & Dan Bastian of Angie's BOOMCHICKAPOP

Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/bea378e94956c47f

Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show.
who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Leave us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with.
Alright, let's get to it.
Joining me today are Angie and Dan Bastian, co-founders of Angie's Boom Chick-a-Pot Popcorn. Angie and Dan, welcome back to the show.
Thank you, guys. Thank you. We're happy to be back.
We first met, uh back in I think it was twenty nineteen, we sat in it down in front of a live audience in Saint Paul, Minnesota. It was so fun.
You told us
This crazy story about how you saw an online ad that said, uh, make thousands of dollars by popping kettleborn, which sounds so crazy. Angie, you were a nurse uh practitioner at the time, Dan, you were a high school teacher.
You guys were looking to make some extra cash to put away for your kids' college, and so you bought uh some kettle court equipment and started selling in parking lots and a
Vikings games and eventually somehow
This becomes a multi million dollar business. It's an amazing story.
And for those of you listening who have not heard the original episode of Angie's Boom Chicken Pop, you've gotta listen to it. It's so good. We'll put a link to it uh in the show notes. Um anyway.
So it's been a while since you were last on the show. Angie, I think you were still involved with Boom Chica Pop at the time. Um and Dan, I think you had moved on from the brand. So Angie, what are you still working with the company? Wha tell me what's going on.
Uh no, I'm not. Um Dan and I started getting involved in some of the things that
um we were passionate about and one of those things was with a nonprofit in Nicaragua, um, working with small shareholder farmers that were producing yuca and um
The CEO there had this vision to create a production plant and to create a product, um, Cassava Flower. So he created something called Prospera Foods, which I chaired the board for about five years. And um the funding is now flowing back through into the non for profit organization. And now
I'm trying to learn how to retire.
You know
Ange and I you were still mentor a lot, mentoring startups, especially in the food industry.
And uh you know, we we we kind of
Get to set our schedule, which has been great.
Yeah. You know, I'm wondering i if if you were to
start Boom Chick a Pop again today. Right? Or or any
Any food brand, right?
Um do you think
You would have done it differently.
Now if you had to start it again.
I think one of the things that Ang and I have talked about was
You know
We were the twenty hour day workers.
Um which was not
healthy. It's just it's how I knew how to operate.
Just
the pedal down, go, go, go, make sure we are doing everything we can. You know, I I I'm not the smartest guy, and so I had to make up for it oftentimes. You're really smart. But no, but my point being is some people can operate and work ten hour days and accomplish maybe what I worked
took twenty hours days to do and I kinda knew I could outwork
you know, most people and startups and
And I think
Both Angie and I probably would have
try to spend more time with each other taking a step back
For us
It really did damage to us.
in in the sense of just physical, you know, our bodies and emotionally and and all of that. And I think, you know, it's taken a long time for us to kinda get healthy again in every aspect of our lives. And so that's probably w the biggest thing that we would have done differently.

I really appreciate you saying that. I know we you know, we only had an hour and a half live on stage when we did the interview,'cause normally, you know, I'll interview people for longer and we edit it down.
But I do remember y you guys talking about that, that grind, you know, and
This is the thing, and I I I think it's really important to re-emphasize this. I mean, we try and make sure people understand this when they hear our show.
Building a business is really hard.
It's very, very, very hard.
This is not a get rich quick scheme show. This is a slow
Steady grind.
Kind of show.
Good news is you guys are both young. You've got another f what, forty
Maybe fifty years to live. I hope so. So
We be a lot of time.
I mean we could have done a few small tweaks like Dan was talking about, like just
Have a dinner together without the phone on the table. Like
Yeah, just turn off the phone. But we just didn't feel we could turn off the phone.
And honestly, one time when Dan did turn off the phone, one of our
delivery vehicles got into an accident and they were trying to reach him. So I mean it's just it's just that's what business is. Yeah, fair enough. All right you guys ready to uh take our first caller? Sure. Sure let's go.
Founders of Angie's Boob Chick-up, Angie and Dan Bastian. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.
Hi, I'm Michelle Pisateri. I'm the founder of
Nana Joe's granola based in San Francisco. And we make epically delicious certified organic granola and granola bars that have out of the ordinary flavor combination. I myself am a trained pastry chef, so that comes into play and it's fresh out of the oven texture flavor and crunch.
Awesome. Welcome to the show, Michelle. I have seen your products'cause I'm here in in California and I've seen them at Whole Foods and you guys do like
Sure.
Paleo granolas, I think, and gluten free granolas, right? Am I right about that? Yeah, you're totally right. So we do the the paleo blends, which are bound together with almond butter. Nobody else is doing that.
We're all certified organic and we also have oat blends and that's how we started. It's kind of following the evolution of my diet. Yeah.
Tell me how t uh tell me how long you guys have been around. When when did this business start?
So I started in two thousand and ten.
And in in San Francisco, the Bay Area?
In San Francisco, we actually built a manufacturing facility in the dog patch in San Francisco in two thousand and twelve.
Wow. So we self manufacture everything. So you make everything. And tell me um where where you guys are distributed now. Where is it available?
Yeah, mostly on the West Coast, so all of California, up in the Pacific Northwest, and then some in Texas, so predominantly West Coast.
Got it. And tell me a little bit about
the business. How are you guys doing? And give me your sort of top line numbers.
Yeah, so we're doing well. I think we're doing well. We've grown every year.
Um, we're about two point two million dollars in s in sales, so sold a lot of bags of granola. Yeah. Yeah.
And so most of your business is coming through these s stores of the whole foods in in California and the
And then the
other grocery stores or is it most of it coming through the website?
It's 30% direct to consumer and then around 65, 70%.
Um wholesale and custom label and retail.
That's really good news. And and you mentioned you are pastry chef, so
How did this idea come about? Were you just uh
You know, ten years ago or so were you kinda like
I want to start my own thing.
Uh well I had actually started surfing and I was going out trying to
Surf early mornings at Ocean Beach.
And I was having coconut yogurt. I've been dairy free my whole life and I'm also uh gluten free. I have celiac, I have colitis, so I really have a strict diet and I
was eating like granola that I had bought at the store that was gluten free and and my coconut yogurt that I always made
And I was crashing out.
And I was like, why am I crashing out mid-surf session? This isn't like fueling me at all. And so I took a look at the back of the granola bag and in two thousand and ten there wasn't this better for you movement. There wasn't a lot of natural
alternatives to cane sugar and it they were packed with sugar and I looked at it and one serving had twelve grams of sugar. Wow. And I was like, oh and then I was like, I'm a trained pastry chef. Why am I not making my own? So that's how it came about. And as the story goes, friends and family loved it.
Wow. And twelve grams of sugar, but for most people is still not that much, right? And I think you guys have what, how many grams of sugar do you average in your in your girls? Three. Wow. So you're a tiny amount of sugar and and you're using like no you're not using cane sugar, you're using what?
Maple syrup. We're actually using Farm Direct certified organic maple syrup. Wow. We get it from New York. And just like the flavor combinations and really using the ingredients
to sweeten it. Like almond butter is naturally sweet. And just like the seeds and stuff like that can can be sweet if they're toasted correctly.
Well, all right, before we get to um bringing in Angie and Dan, um to g tell tell us a little bit about what challenges you're facing and what you're hoping to get help with.
Yeah, so I think, you know, after
Bootstrapping for fifteen years we're definitely at an inflection point.
And how do we decide whether outside capital accelerates our mission or compromises it? And then on the turn, how do we find investors who strengthen the business without diluting our values? I think
We're very we're we're pro regenerative. We're pro keeping our organic certification. We care a lot, like Dan and Angie, we care about our people. We pay a livable wage in San Francisco. We just wanna make sure that
Whoever we partner with is really looking at our mission and our values in the same light and the same eyes that we are.
All right, cool. Angie, Dan, I want to bring you in first of all thoughts or questions, uh or ideas for Michelle.
Well, congratulations, Michelle. It took us ten years to kind of figure it out before we brought investment on. So we understand.
the grit and the grind that you've gone through and are continuing to go through.
For us
You know, we were in a position.
back in two thousand ten where we didn't really need investment but we found a partner
That
we thought we could work with and that would enhance the opportunity for us to scale.
'Cause we knew we were at that point of scaling. And so I mean, for you it's a matter of like
Wню interview or talk to potential investors.
Your focus is you know you don't want to lose the mission.
uh of of your brand, of your company and
You can make that decision.
I mean, there are investors out there.
that might only want to do a minority investment with you, which you controlled. I mean that's what happened with us with Sherbrooke Capital in two thousand eleven they took a minority position
And
We
ran the company no different than when we did before they came on.
Ange you might have some other insight on that.
Yeah, yeah. I again congratulations. It's not easy to get to two point two. I mean and to get through Covid. And I mean, it's unbelievable. And have your own manufacturing. Yeah um I just I yay.

Great job, Michelle. I just want to cheer you on for that. Yeah, and and you know, I I think a couple of things. There are investors out there that want to invest in exactly the set of core values that you highlighted for us. I mean, there are investment groups in
Institutional money, family offices, angel investors that feel the same way you do about what you value. And so the first question I have is have you talked to anyone yet?
We have actually. We've been in a couple of conversations over the years, um, three to be exact.
where we got close to signing the paperwork and
It just it it didn't work. I think one of the things that they came back and said after everything was settled was, Oh
I think that we're gonna actually have to help you because it was a strategic investor, help you a little bit more than we thought. So we're gonna take more percentage. And this was like at the signing table. And in my mind, that was a red flag, and that was also like, okay, but you know, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for everything.
it's not gonna be a right fit. And then another one kind of early on when we were about the million dollar point.
was like you can't ever do this being certified organic
And
I wanna invest in you, but
You have to go conventional. And I said, Well that's not my plan.
I I went conventional to certified organic, which is extremely rare, and something that I'm really, really proud of.
And
our product integrity and the way that we make our granola is one of those things that I won't compromise on.
Nor should you. Thank you. Yeah, no, I agree, yeah. Michelle, I have a question for you. Have you thought about
alternatives like because w I'm assuming you you want
more capital to come into
To ex to scale the brand, to to increase distribution, to increase your direct to sales channel, right? I mean you want more money for maybe for advertising, for example.
Definitely.
Yeah, for sure. So money or raising capital is is sounds like it's important to you. And do you have sort of a number in mind? I mean, is it is it a million, is it two million, is it uh around that that range, is it more or less?
Uh my my thought is between a million and a million and a half, and every time I've talked to somebody who's got an investment, they're always like go higher. So I think two million is is where we need to be at.
I I run everything. I do sales.
Marketing
I run the production facility. We have an operations manager in fulfillment.
But
I think for us to be able to scale the way that we want to scale, we need more people. So two million would allow us to hire on sales, hire marketing, spend some money on some marketing, which we've never done, and also be able to automate.
And I think that's where we're at right now. We're confined with
You know
my ability to do more twenty hour day have you have you explored loans?
Yeah, we have loans.
So we have three working capital loans currently. Angie Dan, I'm curious to get your thoughts on on
On this idea because
Yeah.
You could try and and get some institutional cash, which could listen, in this market it could be tricky, right? Um even though you guys are doing so well.
for many of those institutional investors you're too small, but there are plenty of as certainly where you are in the Bay Area.
interesting angel investors who have invested in food brands.
Uh, you know, there's in in in the Bay Area there's flour and water, for example, which is doing quite well. What what I mean, do what's your sense, Angie Dan? I mean, do you think that that
The opportunity might be and it it's hard work.
but might be going to, you know, ten or fifteen or twenty or even more
Angel investors writing fifteen thousand dollar to
Fifty thousand dollar checks?
That's a great question.
I wouldn't eliminate any possibility for you if that's if you're really looking at trying to grow.
Um, and the the question I have is do you have visibility to a large scale
sale or or sales opportunities coming up. Do you have anything in your back pocket? Do you have something that's on the horizon that that Yes, that would be
interesting for investors to
that that you could demonstrate, hey, this is where we're going, this is the the velocity of we need this cash to get a salesperson in place and some some promotional and marketing dollars behind it and and we need to hone our manufacturing.
Yeah, just Michelle
We were in a very similar position. I mean, we financed everything on our own up until ten million.
I m weadlons.
And we had a lot of debt. And and we we went, you know, really I think around the one million mark is when we went to a bank and got financing to build out our plant. And that gave us the the bandwidth to you know, when we got tied in with Trader Joe's and Target and Casco, we kinda grew and that opened the door for
You know, our our private equity. Is there opportunity for you to go back to the bank? You know, you probably have some collateral with within your plant where it gives you just a another year.
Like Ann said to
get to a point where all of a sudden, you know, you find an opportunity within Target or Costco or or any other big retailer that is gonna open the doors and bring awareness to potential investors.
I mean, yeah, definitely I could for sure. I think
I still have a little bit of wiggle room.
But
I'll be fifty five this year and I'm kinda cognizant of how much debt I I incur because
We all know we don't pay ourselves what we
should pay ourselves when we're founders. So
I think that's something that's top of mind as well. I have a qu a a question for you, Michelle. You have a lot of experience. You've been in this business for fifteen years. So you know the food business. I'm sure you've been to trade shows. I'm sure you know a lot of players.
In the business. Um I wonder whether
Even with all of the things you bring to the table.
Is there a world where
you bring someone on as an advisor or consultant who might be retired looking for their next
thing who who, you know, may have exited. Some like you you know, somebody who worked at Boom Chick a Pop, right, who's was the executive there who's kinda looking for the next thing. Or I th this was what Justin Gold did with Justin's Nut Butter. He found somebody who
recently left Izzy,'cause Izzy sold a PepsiCo and they were looking to do something interesting, and that person had
You know, they could just clear the path for
distribution. They had relationships at Kroger and Albertson's everywhere. It's an interesting model. Have you explored anything like that?
I haven't. I have a few mentors that have helped me out along the way, for sure. A actually
immensely helped me out. But I haven't thought about that. I think that's that's an excellent, excellent idea. Cool. Uh the brand is called Nana Joe's Granola Michelle Pissoteri. Thank you for calling and good luck. Keep us posted.
Good luck, Michelle. Great to chat. Thank you.
Thank you so much.

We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice.
I'm Gaira, stick around, you're listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.
Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab.
I'm Guy Roz, and today I'm taking your call with Angie and Dan Bastion of Angie's Boom Chick a Pop. So you guys ready? What do you say? Should we bring in our next caller?
Let's do it.
Let's go.
Alright, let's bring in our next caller. Welcome to the advice line. You're on with Dan and Angie Bastion, co founders of Angie's Boom Chick-a-Pop. Welcome to the show. Tell us your name, where you're calling from and a little bit about your business.
Hello, my name is Gloria Kolb and I'm the co-founder and CEO of Alida and we're based in Newtown, Connecticut.
So we have Elitone, which is a wearable medical device that treats bladder leaks.
By strengthening the pelvic floor muscles externally, and it essentially it's doing those kegel exercises for you, but longer and stronger than you could on your own, and it gives women back their control and their confidence.
Thank you so much for calling in, Gloria. Okay, so Elida is the company name and the brand uh the product is called the Elitone.
And forgive me. I mean I'm you know, I'm a fifty something year old man, so I'm I need some help here. Explain what the product is and how it works and yeah.
Yeah, so
Most people don't realize that it's such a big problem, but one out of two women over the age of fifty has some incontinence where if they sneeze
They exercise, they leak some urine. Right. And that's often due, you know, after childbirth.
Just the pelvic floor muscles are weak.
And so so how did the this product work?
So it's electrical stimulation and it's placed right on the perennial area. It's a very easy wearable um like a thin gel pad goes right on that area and then we have a tiny controller that sends the signal and it's just
Very discreet, because you could get dressed to walk around the house while you're getting a twenty minute treatment at home. Well so it's it it's all uh fits almost like a maxi pad.
And tightened your right your muscles, right? Certain muscles, right? Is that that we're that's you're talking about.
Yeah, we're t we're talking about tightening
Those muscles down there strengthening and actually giving it a work out. Okay, I get it now. Thank you. I really appreciate you indulging me. So tell me how this started. What I mean, you must have a background in in medicine or in medical devices.
I have worked in the healthcare industry and I have a biomedical engineering background, but it really
was when I had a nine and a half pound baby girl and then 13 pounds of twins that I started to leak and I was looking for something for myself and everything I saw in the market I didn't like. It was vaginal.
Which meant that you had to lie on your back
Lock yourself in a bedroom with this device inside of you for 20 minutes and no busy mom has time for that. And as a biomedical engineer, my husband and I started the company and we we figured we can do a better job.
That's amazing. And tell me a little bit about how the business is doing.
Uh so it's doing wells in that
you know, we got grant funding and so we've uh ha hadn't needed to raise a ton of money
And we were growing we launched right before Covid, which meant that we had to pivot and go from the doctor's offices straight to direct to consumer. We were growing a hundred percent year over year.
Until last year and last year was a little bit of a doozy, um
digital healthcare marketing changed a lot and
Last year was a struggle. You just stalled. Sales just stalled.
Yeah.
All right, um, before we dive in further, tell us what your question is for us. I think I know what it is, but please. Yeah, so well, due to all the changes in the m uh digital marketing, our cost of acquisition has skyrocketed. And so we are looking for other ways to bring
Consumers uh
Awareness. And so one of the things we're looking for is referral programs, affiliate programs, but all of the things we've tried doesn't take off because
Women hesitate to publicly associate themselves with this condition. So how do you create authentic word of mouth growth in a category that's embarrassing?
Wow, this is such a fascinating question because I think this has the potential to be a massive
Massive business, right? Angie, Dan, please jump in. A questions, thoughts, ideas for Gloria?
Okay, I wanna jump right in because I'm really excited about Gloria and the product that you created because
Um thank you.
Because I think your question
hits right at the heart of stigma. You've got two problems. One is is you're in a new product, new category. It's not surgery, it's not physical therapy, and it's not internal vaginal treatment.
And so how do you sell in a new category with a new innovative product? That's the first question. The second question that is attached to that is how do you overcome stigma? And stigma is really about
education and exposure, proximity, distance to a product. And I know you have FDA approval and you're over the counter, so your access isn't limited in a sense. Um, but I don't know if there are any regulations around it, but where it
sends me is like what you gotta do is expose
your product to a much larger target market.
Instead of
Seeing it just like a medical piece of equipment.
I think it's parallel to sort of uh continuous glucose monitoring. It's parallel to the sleep ring. Like those two sort of medical devices are in mass markets and they they're you can buy them on Amazon. I really do think that there is a human health movement
Where there are
Women who aren't yet identified
with a diagnosis of urinary incontinence, but they are interested in prevention. They are interested in strengthening their pelvic floor muscles. And maybe it's not for the purpose of urinary incontinence. Maybe this product also helps with sexual function and experience.
And and that in itself, I would say, hey, get it into medispa and and women's retreat clinics. I'm curious about how you thought about this.
Yeah, so our end game is to be acquired by a medical device company.
However, we have been told by a lot of these uh strategics that if you go down that sexual
Route. And yes, a lot of two people do buy for that reason, but um they are not gonna be interested in us as an ac acquisition. So we have to be very careful about that. But yes, people do
buy our product for strengthening and for lots of different reasons.
Uh
The we've also been very
cautious about where we go on for example, an on Amazon
Uh we haven't fully put our product there b
Because
There's so many
Competitors
That
are vaginal or whatever, but they're not FDA and so they make all sorts of claims that
As a medical device, yeah, we could try to compete with them, but I don't know if we want to go there.
Um Da before I jump in, Dan, uh do you have any thoughts or uh uh things you want to add?
Yeah, I mean my first initial thought um and just hearing what Ange is saying and what you're saying
You know, is
To
embrace the stigma kind of and going full at
the digital marketing piece, whether it's yourself or others, someone else that can
really kinda lay it out and
Do the video and whether it's TikTok or you know Insta or wherever that you can and maybe you've already done this. We have tried and so that's what um like in twenty twenty four we were profitable, but in twenty twenty five when Meta stopped us from um targeting it
became unprofitable.
Well
Can I can I just say I then it then what that calls for is boots on the ground, right? Like get like in the gyms.
in in in yoga studios, in Medi spas, in in places where women are that you have direct contact with them. Is that possible?
So I guess I go back to that we haven't raised a lot of funding. So we don't have a lot of people to do that.
No, that wasn't intentional. It's just we're in a female founder gets no money and then women's health get two percent of all healthcare funding. So
I've tried. I've been trying to raise money
These last five years. It's it's just been really hard. I have a thought for you about how you are
Telling your story. So I'm looking at your website, Gloria, and
We've been talking about this now for a few minutes and
You've got to go deep into the website to find out about you. Here on the website I find out that you have a an engineering degree from MIT in Stanford.
And that you uh have this incredible background in in developing these products and you are a user of this product, presumably.
I believe you
You are the influencer. You are the face of this. You are a mom. Your story of of having a nine pound baby and then thirteen pound twins that you told us here.
You've got to go deep into your website to find that.
And I feel like that's gotta be the story.
From the beginning.
Right. I I was uh recently in Chicago and I saw Serena Williams doing ads for um
GLP ones, right? And so it would be great if you could find a a a woman over forty five who who is willing to partner with you and to you know, who's prominent.
to talk about this publicly and maybe that could be a strategy, you know, find a strategic partner who's sort sort of a celebrity and respected and uh could could be public. But but in the meantime
you're that person. So I I think that you know the challenge one of the challenges. People are not gonna like these posts on Instagram, they're not gonna tag people or share it publicly.
But if you start to talk about it or think about reframing how you're talking about it with you front and center, right, and then
You're gonna talk about your story on every podcast you can get, on every newsletter you can get any uh like sub stacks that deal with menopause or
that's really w where I think you're gonna find your audience because you're
The best sales rep for this thing.
That's so good. Uh I've been told that before, but
I just feel like I have no time. I'm already like spending those eighty hours. Yeah, well, you gotta do it. You've you have got to be out there.
I know, I that's true.
That's true. Guy, what you're saying is that if it comes from her, she's also fighting that stigma.

You're doing it.
Yeah.
I I want to go back to this uh you know, it's a bit of a risk.
But you're sort of at an inflection point where
You've got this
This opportunity
If you can find the right
person who really wants to partner with you, who has some prominence and who's willing to be
in addition to you, the face of this thing. You know, I think about on shoes, right? On shoes
Um it really took off once Roger Federer.
joined that brand and made a very significant strategic investment. He didn't want to just be a quiet investor. He wanted to become the face of the brand. And it really helped to supercharge that brand. It's one of the, you know, biggest running shoe brands in the world now.
That's where I think there's an opportunity.
i if you can find somebody who's like yeah, I'm I'm in. I can I can partner with you and
you know, get some equity in this brand.
So you would give
Equity, right?'Cause I I always thought it took millions of dollars to ha to get one of those influences. If you can find the right person who wants to be a partner with you know, get some equity in this thing.
It'll be worth more than millions.
Many more much more. That's true. Yeah.
Okay.
Quite well taken. It's a great idea. I Elida's the the name of the company, Elitones of Product. Gloria uh Colb, thank you so much for calling and good luck.
Thank you so much. Thank you, everyone.
Alright, we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back with another collar and another round of advice. Stay with us, I'm Guy Roz, and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab.
Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab.
I'm Guy Roz, and my guests today are Angie and Dan Bastian, co-founders of Angie's Boom Chick-a Pop Popcorn.
And we're taking your calls. Uh, you guys ready for another call? We are so ready. Let's do it.
Alright, let's bring in our
Next caller, welcome to the advice line. You're on with the co founders of Angie's Boom Chick-a-Pop. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your
Business.
Thanks, Guy. Great to be here.
My name is Eric Pooline, I'm based in Sydney, Australia, so down under
And along with my wife, I co founded an organic gluten free sports nutrition company.
Called Maple Roo.
Our products are designed for endurance athletes to anyone who wants to stay active.
And now we're seeing strong interest from even the corporate world.
And the healthcare workers having to do long shifts who want natural energy.
Without stomach issues.
Awesome. Eric, thanks for calling in. All right, so tell us exactly what kinds of products you make.
What do you sell it?
Energy waffles, energy drink mix, and also what's called gummies or chewy's all natural, all all gluten free.
And all made with maple syrup or from maple syrup.
Yeah, hence the name Maple Roof. So all the research was done in Australia with a local university. We really wanted to do our research. So for two years we spent time uh researching the product, testing the product
And then the Maple is our partnership with Maple from Canada. So we combined both.
um to come up with uh Me Puru as our name.
Guys, so energy products
with maple syrup or maple uh sugar as a s as a center. What why maple? Tell me about what what you found.
Uh the story is uh I'm a very active person. I've done a lot of Iron Man in my life and and and marathons. And uh after one Iron Man, I collapse. I completely passed out.
And my wife took a picture of me and uh she said to me the next day, I never want you to do that again.
And uh she was really worried about me.
And what I realize is it's not that I wasn't trained properly, is that I didn't fuel properly.
So I really found out the hard way of if you don't fuel properly
You could be in in real trouble.
So
We did did my research and I found out that maple syrup was actually a fuel that's easy to digest. And so I tried it.
To a point that I even qualified for world championship in the Iron Man. So it worked for me, and that's when we said we have to do something, we have to bring this to the market.
Australians see maple syrup as uh a syrup for their pancakes. So it's been an educational ride, but
Uh the feedback has been uh very impressive.
Awesome. All right, before we dive in further, what's your question for us?
So um
Even if it's our first year of sales.
We've seen some meaningful traction and strong customer response.
Uh the broad the market is broader than what we anticipated.
Like I said, we thought this would be for endurance athlete, but now we're seeing that corporation are asking us, you know, for more information, even you know, hospitals and healthcare. We've got a bigger target audience than what we expected, but the reality is
We are competing against massive well funded brands.
So the question is how do we scale in a category dominated by massive brands?
without compromising the product that got us here and people trust.
Got it. Okay. And and just to um before I forget, what what how much did you guys do in sales last year?
So now this year, just even after first year, we're looking at about a quarter million uh in forecast. Amazing. And mostly deep mostly direct to consumer or or eighty percent direct to consumers, and we're now slowly uh adding some uh
some retailers and um you know hopefully have our trader Joe moment like uh
Like Dan and Angie. Right.
All right, Dan, Angie, I want to bring you in with some thoughts or or questions or ideas for for Eric.
Well
I mean, Eric, congratulations. Sounds like you found a solution to a major problem.
kind of in your world um of competing. It sounds familiar to us, you know, we were a total grassroots
brand company early on. I mean we went to fairs, we went to festivals, we went to events.
to just get it into people's mouths and
You know, it it sounds like
You're involved with tirathlons, running clubs, uh different
endurance events and stuff like that.
Yeah.
How we did it and what's familiar to us, and I don't know if you've tackled it this way, is we were really local.
Like we were local in the state and just organically grew out and
You know, it sounds like Australia, you know, there's that opportunity to tap into people who kinda live their lives like you do. Have you focused on that?
Yes, absolutely. So that that's a great point. So
Um we decided to really stay stay local.
Focus on local events uh from run clubs to swim clubs.
And and that was our focus.
It it's interesting what you said then, because I am getting some messages from international companies. It seems that people want to bring our products.
Uh you know, to different countries.
And it's it's that challenge as a startup.
To say do we just stay local?
But then you also want to grow and and you know, you've got New Zealand, you've got Singapore, other other countries calling us, but
Uh what we decided to do is do
Local events.
For the next six to eight months we've got over fifteen events that we're gonna be going my wife
Uh and m and myself, but
Other athletes that that tried our products
Their now offering to come to these events with us.
uh because they really believe in the product.
And where where are you manufacturing your product?
We manufacture our products in North America, and then we uh ship them to Australia.
So I think that plays a role in how you grow intelligently d because the freight in itself could could um usurp any profits, you know, if you're shipping all over the world. If you're
Manufacturing in North America, are you selling in North America as well?
Yeah, so right now we really want to focus in in Australia'cause that was our our key market.
Um, the reality is maple syrup is produced in in the the one we're using is organic Canadian maple syrup. So uh we had to decide do we ship the maple syrup and manufacture in Australia and then and then um it was better for us
From a financial standpoint.
to do all the manufacturing in Canada, all the research in Australia, and then uh sell in sell in Australia to start. So we did look at all the options. Like I said, we're in our first year.
Uh three years if you count the research. So we're always looking at our options right now to see what would be better for us. It's interesting because kind bars in their first year were made in Australia and sold in North America and that really that was really tough because it was really expensive.
But uh but I would imagine that that shipping maple syrup is m more expensive than shipping if the finished product, right? Because it's heavier. But when I go to your website I'm learning more about
what this does. And you know, if you look at a product like R X Bar, what really helped make that product take off was the macros, you know, it's like or or the simple ingredients. And a lot of these brands now are saying, you know
twenty grams of protein, three grams of carb, zero grams of sugar on the front of the package, and it it tells me something very simple, very quick. And I wonder if there's a way to kind of
You know, even I I'm looking at your website here, it says
Um slow burning energy. That's interesting to me.
Right.
um, you know, clean carbs or you know, the the glycemic index or something that signals to especially to a specialty athlete that this is gonna give you fuel for a long time, right? Because maple syrup
It's interesting. It's it's a little weird. It's odd, right? It's a and that actually is your advantage. It's not a synthetic product. It's not lab grown, it's a from a tree. And so
It
It
could really work to your advantage if you
Are able to in very short, simple maybe
You know, just
Slow slow burning energy, just a few quick
things right on the front of the package.
Yeah, no, that that's a great point. The number one question we get when we go to uh events is always how much carbs in your product.
And um you know, we're lucky to have twenty five to thirty grams depending on on on the product.
And made from two ingredients.
Usually salt and maple syrup.
So I I'm trying to educate people, it's not the number of carbs.
Is how many product
do you need in order to hit those carbs. So you're right, guy, that's a great point. We should highlight that. Just on the w on the thing. Quick quick absorption, you know, whatever, right? If you're running and you're starting to ch chomp to one of these down and you know it's gonna get in your bloodstream within a few minutes.
Tell me that on the package.
I I'm so glad you brought up the packaging guy because uh I did go to your website too and m just a small piece of advice is the there is a little bit of a difference when you hand the product to someone at a site in person because you can explain it to them. But when you go into retail
You're depending on that package to to really explain it,'cause you won't be there. And the other thing that you want to have happen as you go into retail is that when someone looks at your product on shelf, they know all your products are from the same place, the same company, like the
brand architecture looks the same on each package so that there isn't confusion. What you want to do is keep it as simple and clean as possible. And this is something it took us years to figure out how to do but but when you make that transition to retail
Have somebody just go put it on the shelf. Like ask somebody that's never seen your product before to tell you what they see when it's on shelf somewhere. No matter if it's in a nutritional store or uh, you know, a sports specialty store. You want somebody that doesn't know your product to
to look at it and give you feedback about what they see.
Yeah, no, that's that that's great feedback because I think that's the the biggest challenge we have is if I'm in front of of someone, uh usually I could convince them and they try it and they love it. Right. But I'm I can't be everywhere. Well, and I think your question was about how do you scale and maintain your authenticity, right? And
That part of it is as you go into retail
What you're doing is is bringing yourself
Your passion, your authenticity as a founder
to into the buyer's office and you're communicating to the buyer, just like you're communicating to us, like why this product is so important. And you're getting them excited about what they ha can offer their customers. And that's a little bit
Of a different proposition than direct to consumer as you begin to work
through retail if that's the direction you end up going at some point. And then it's it's
then it once they bring it in, you've got a third party endorser of your product and then it's your job to make sure that it looks unbelievable on their shelf and that you're communicating clearly
to the consumer that's their customer
Yeah, and and you know, we just signed up about twenty retailers over the last couple of months and it's a hundred percent repeat business that they've uh they've come back and order more. So I think if we uh you know listen to
Some of the suggestions you've made and improve our packaging that we could grow uh definitely w from a retail perspective. I also think it when it comes to expanding outside of Australia. Right now, you know, you're small, hundred and sixty K, it's great, it's impressive, but you wanna try and try to grow organically to at least five hundred K.
ideally a million before you even think about that. I mean you wanna
maximize those D to C subscriptions, right? You want to maximize that repeat purchase.
you want to get into those specialty stores that you're working on.
really deep in the community.
You know
uh relationship and presence and
At that point, once you start to see five hundred
Okay, a million in sales.
That's when I think you have an opportunity to really think about
Going outside.
going beyond going to Singapore or going to
you know, South East Asia and then and then maybe beyond.
Yeah, no, that that's great. And and we wanna grow organically. But I think as an entrepreneur, and I'm sure others listening to me, you know, we we wanna go fast, right? Because we you know, we get a we get an email from somebody in another country that love our products, that they tried it at a marathon, and and you wanna you wanna say yes to everything. And I think that's the biggest challenge and I have to listen to what you just said.
guy is just to really focus, hit a certain number, and then move on.
I mean I Eric, couple of things. I mean
Going fast.
Like we didn't focus on going fast.
Until we were in our millions.
Like even ten million, it was all about
kind of building the base and doing it right and getting customers and you know taking kind of a step at a time. I mean if you have unlimited resources, you can move a lot quicker. But I think this idea of like locally um
You have an opportunity to
Build it up, learn from your mistakes, and then kind of, you know.
Make some decisions about expansion.
I'm just gonna challenge you to, um, as you grow, and it sounds like you're going to grow because you've got uh a unique product and when you begin hiring people to represent you.
Your job as the leader and founder of the company will be to teach those people how to represent your product the way that you want and that they have your voice in their ear when they go out.
to represent the mission, the vision, the passion, all of it. And and that's that's where
Entrepreneurs
succeed is when they're able to to
to relay that kind of passion and everything that that I can feel from you. Yeah that's a that that's a great point, yes. Uh the brand is called Maple Roo. Eric Poulan, thank you so much for calling in. Good luck. Thank you very much.
Good luck here.
Okay.
Um
Guys
Thank you so much for for all this amazing advice. Before I let you go
I wanna ask you both the same question, which is if you could go back to when you were s first starting this business, you could say, Hey,
I'm coming from the future.
I'm gonna tell you some give you some advice.
What do you think you would tell your
yourself back then, that you now know.
I mean I think for me
You know
Try not to be so reactionary.
Be a little more
Forward thinking in the process.
Like I said before, there's benefits and
reacting on everything, but I think, you know, with entrepreneurs it's like
Often times you're either paralyzed.
Or
You're moving nonstop in and on finding that balance between
Okay, opportunities here.
go at it, strategize a little bit. I mean I I think taking some time, slowing down a bit.
and identifying kind of what the best options are for you at that given moment, uh, would have been beneficial for for me per in particular.
All right, Angie.
Well, I'd say um
Yes, you're in survival mode, but you're gonna survive. And
Yeah. And and it's gonna be okay on the other side of it. And maybe even though you're in survival mode, just put the phone down for an hour and have dinner and don't talk about work with your family and your kids.
Yeah, I used a I've talked about this before, I use this device called the Brick. I break my phone and I cannot use it. I gotta go p physically back and scan it to to try it. It's really helpful for me.
Um Angie and Dan Bastian, thank you guys so much for coming back on the show.
You're welcome. Thanks for having us.
It's been great having you. That's Angie and Dan Bashing, co-founders of Angie's Boom Chick-a-Pop.
Uh, and by the way, if you haven't heard the episode we did with him, it's so good, it's funny, it's just awesome.
Check it out. Incredible story. We're gonna put a link to it in the show notes.
Uh and here's one of my favorite moments from that episode.
You went to a bunch of banks.
And
What did they say? Were they were they eager to lend you the money?
No.
Some were more
open to discussing than others and
You know, we eventually uh
Found uh that worked with us and
I lent us the money. And what did you have to w what kind of collateral did you have to bum? You said you had no collaterals on the money.
Personal guarantees. Personal guarantees. Yeah.
Which was our home.
Yeah. Future earnings.
Everything but the mini van.
Ha ha ha.
Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week, and by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at gyros.com or on Substack.
And of course, if you are working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tell us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing, because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com, or call us at
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leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you and we'll put all of this information in the podcast description as well.
This episode was produced by Nor Gill with music composed by Ramptina Rablui. It was edited by John Isabella.
Our audio engineer was Cena Lafredo.
Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Casey Herman, Carrie Thompson, Chris Massini, Catherine Cypher, Ramel Wood, Sam Paulson, Neva Grant, and Elaine Coates.
I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to the advice line.
On how I built this lab.