Replay: Dinner table wisdom with Danny Meyer

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1:20 Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. Hey folks, Jeff Berman here. This week we're sharing a conversation with hospitality legend, Danny Meyer. You probably best know Danny as the founder of Shake Shot.

1:43 Which now has hundreds of restaurants in more than twenty countries around the world. Danny also leads an ever-growing portfolio of one of a kind restaurants and investments through his Union Square Hospitality Group. Midway through our conversation, we invited a rising entrepreneur to join us on stage, Danny's daughter, Hallie Meyer. She's making her own name in New York City as the founder of Cafe Pana, a growing ice cream business. This Masters of Scale Live was recorded in front of an audience in New York City. It's part of an event series presented by Capital One Business.

2:24 You gotta have incredible talent at every position. There are fires burning when you're going out. Can we believe it? Such an idiot. And then you go back to this is totally gonna be amazing. There are so many easy ways. I have no idea what to do. Sorry, we made a mistake. But you have to time it right. Oops. Working out of a three-bedroom apartment. Ten years later, I'm like, well that's just how you do it. We haven't made it just how you do it. This is masters of scale. We kicked off the event.

3:01 With a recording from a story that we did with Danny several years ago with a live musical score from the artist Margot McDonald. I'll never forget the first time I finally figured out that almost every Roman trateria has the exact same pastas on the menu. And every one of them is related. There's the Cachoe Pepe, which is simply Spaghetti with pecorino cheese, olive oil, and lots of black pepper.

3:39 Then by simply adding Guan Chale The bacon that comes from the cheek of the pig. It becomes spaghetti alla gricha. Or by adding eggs, that same exact recipe becomes spaghetti alla carbonara. And if you omit the eggs and add tomato sauce instead, you get spaghetti alla matriciana.

3:59 Four different pastas all related. Great Italian cooks really cherish and respect their ingredients. A little olive oil and salt doesn't provide much disguise if the tomato itself isn't perfectly sunripened. Or if the basil isn't fragrant. One of the things I discovered about myself in Rome

4:18 That I prize wherever I find it. is an Italian word called sprezzatura. Spreadsatura. Is what happens when the food or the painting Or the athletic endeavor.

4:30 or the architecture. comes across as having been effortless. In other words, you can dig into a bowl of pasta that is so amazing. And makes you so happy. And it appears to be effortless.

4:44 That spreadsatura. It's so easy to fall into the trap of believing that more is better. Whenever I find myself thinking that way. I try to remind myself of the simple bowls of pasta that I first discovered in Rome. And that little things can make all the difference.

5:01 N now for him, please. Um Danny, we were backstage together as watching you listening to that. What did that bring up for you? It's actually bringing up a lump in my throat.

5:42 Truly. I can't believe this is happening right now. We go on to a different question. No, you know, it's uh I think I've just composed myself but First of all I I recorded that

5:57 Well before the pandemic. In fact, my voice even sounds younger than but I think what I was trying to get at is the joy of discovery and how Infrequently that happens as you get older. The fact that you get to Taste something for the first time, see something for the first time, smell something, experience something for the first time.

6:19 And There's still out there. In fact, one of the reasons I love traveling and I just constantly stay curious Audrey and I go to New restaurants all the time, right here in New York or wherever it is we're traveling. But

6:33 is to get new discoveries. It's just for me, it's like the greatest joy there is is to learn something new. That you never thought of before. And then and I'll just share one other thing. 'Cause I know you guys think about entrepreneurialism and innovation all the time, but Innovation for me is never about inventing something that was never there. It's truly about

6:54 How many of these discoveries did I store in my taste memory, my heart memory? Wherever it's a And then Use that. Pile cabinet and

7:04 Pull out those things and combine them. At the right time and maybe freshly In a way that uh Seems fresh, but it really isn't. What's something that you've discovered or rediscovered recently that's influencing what you're doing or how you're thinking about the world?

7:23 You know, I think Audrey and I were recently in uh Portugal. Which I hadn't been to since I was really, really young. And The joy of

7:34 Going to a country where I don't know the language, I can speak Italian and French, but I can't speak Portuguese. And Just kind of soaking up different streetscapes uh in the wine country a completely different landscape in the Duro Valley.

7:49 It's just so exciting. I just love learning how people live, and I've always learned the most by learning how people eat. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I wanna go back to that

8:01 trip to Italy at twelve and a source of so much inspiration for what you've done in your life and career. You've talked about your dad having declared bankruptcy a couple of times in your youth. one might imagine that would be daunting then for someone to go and be an entrepreneur and and build businesses. What what do you think got you there to being an entrepreneur? I don't think I

8:24 ever considered anything other than being onto an entrepreneur. That was what I grew up with. I watched my dad doing that And I loved the creativity aspect of it. I love that he was a great writer. He always had a fresh idea up his sleeve.

8:39 And it wasn't daunting for me to take something that I was obsessively passionate about, which is Going out to restaurants and knowing how I wanted to be treated. and trying to create a restaurant which became Union Square Cafe that if only it existed would have been my favorite restaurant. It was really easy. For me. And in retrospect

8:59 It just made complete sense. We didn't have any restaurants in New York in nineteen eighty five like Union Square Cafe. We had really fancy places. But we didn't have A place that you could eat really good like today there's hundreds of'em in New York City and Brooklyn. Yeah, where you can eat really good food and

9:17 Doesn't matter whether you're wearing jeans or or a coat and tie. Um and they treat you well. It used to be in New York that the restaurants that treated you the worst were the most popular. Bizarre, but true. If someone had told me

9:31 You know, during the first ten years of my career I only had one restaurant. Someone had told me I was gonna one day be on a show called Masters of Scale I would have said you're absolutely insane. I will never ever open a second restaurant. Why not?

9:46 Bankrupt. And I associated Both of my dad's bankruptcies with Scaling his business and he did scale his business. And I'm really sad that it it wasn't until after he died

10:01 At the very young age of fifty nine. That I gave myself permission to realize I'm not my dad, and number two, there's a whole lot of businesses in the history of the world that have scaled and not gone bankrupt.

10:15 And it It really helped me to understand that It was not about scaling. It was about His Achilles heel, which is that he didn't surround himself

10:26 With enough Really talented people who complimented both his strengths. And his weaknesses. And instead he surrounded himself with a lot of people that made him feel somewhat exalted, which is what he needed emotionally.

10:39 And I made a determination Finally, when I did expand after almost our tenth birth at Union Square Cafe opening Gramercy Tavern, which is now thirty years old, uh, that I was gonna constantly surround myself with people who could do Things. Better than I could.

10:58 And That gets easier and easier as life goes on'cause You know. I d one one of the really fun things about all these years of d of growing and doing this is that I feel like it's my responsibility.

11:13 To constantly take inventory. Of what I do during the day. And truly'cause none of us is ever gonna Invent more hours in the day. So The real question is

11:25 If I am ruthless about saying here is how I'm spending my time. And I do this about once a quarter, literally with a piece of Paper and pencil in my office. Invariably twenty percent of the things I'm doing are things that someone else on our team could do as well or better than I do it. And every time I do that, it's an act of generosity'cause someone else gets to grow.

11:49 Every time I don't do it. It's an act of selfishness. But I think even more importantly, every time I don't do it. It's a It's an act of stupidity. Because I don't get to grow. And my license to grow

12:02 Is to Increasingly do fewer and fewer and fewer things, but Increasingly Only those things that uniquely I can do better than

12:14 Anybody else on the team. Yeah. I I love that insight and I appreciate that having a team that complimented with an E, not an I, you allowed you to take the leap. But what got you over the psychological barrier of taking the leap to go and launch Grammar C and and have a second restaurant and then go beyond? Yeah, two things. Actually three things I'd say. One was

12:35 A fair amount of Therapy. Psychoanalysis. I mean it three days a week on the couch. Um

12:43 Really learning. About What was motivating me and what was demotivating me. Did that start after your dad passed, or did you start that before he passed? Uh it ramped up, that's for sure. Yeah. And then I'd say the second thing was I got on knock on the door one day.

12:59 From a guy who was a really good chef, Audrey and I would go to his restaurant called Mondrian. We loved it. And his restaurant had gone out of business. And he knocked on the door, basically. We saw each other at the Aspen Food and Wine Conference, guy named Tom Galicchio.

13:16 Some of you may know him from top chef. And he said I wanna Be your partner. I w I love Union Square Cafe. And I think we could do something special together. And that became Really the second

13:29 I'd create a restaurant with Union Square Cafe. It was I've got this idea. That I'm really passionate about. And now I've just gotta find the right place for it and the right chef for it. with Gramercy Tavern because of Tom, it's like I've got this chef that I really, really want to work with

13:47 And now I've got to figure out the right idea. And the right place for it. So it was Therapy. It was Tom.

13:55 And there was a third. Yeah. Audrey said if you don't open a second restaurant, you're stupid. To Mary Well.

14:03 Ha ha ha. One of the interesting things about your universe is you have restaurants like Manhattan that are one offs and I think probably designed to be one offs. You have

14:15 restaurants like Daily Provisions that have expanded, but are still, you know, relatively small. And then you have Shake Shack, which is incredible scale and and scaling. How do you decide which ones Are meant to be what? Well, that's a great question. That implies that

14:33 I ever decided Shake Shack was gonna be a scaled concept,'cause I didn't. It started as a hot dog card. And this was the summer of two thousand one. We didn't open a second Shake Shack for five years. So getting back to your question

14:48 I had my hand on the emergency break of scaling forever because of The stuff you asked me about earlier. And Really the thing that pulled me over the edge to open a second Shake Shack. It's not anything I ever wanted to do.

15:02 Was Another two things. The first one was that The biggest problem we had with that first Shake Shack was way before there were apps on telephones, you know, where you could cut the line with by having an app. And the biggest problem we had was people complained I'd go there more often, but the line is too damn long. Yeah I remember. And we tried everything. We had a shack cam so that you could look online in real time and see exactly how long the line was.

15:30 And people actually love that. They use it. But Uh, the second reason was that Randy Caruti, who had become the I he it was before he was CEO of the company, but he was definitely running the business at that point for us. Um Lived.

15:45 On the upper West Side. And he walked by this space every single day. that had been closed for years. It used to be called the museum the museum cafe. And he said we've gotta open a second Shake Shack. It'll help us cannibalize the lines. I said all right, if you really think so.

16:03 And we spent more money than we ever thought we could building this place. Never thought we would make the money back on the second one. Second one opens. The good news was that the lines were around the block. The bad news was we got

16:18 robbed on the first night we were opened, someone broke into our safe. And Better news was that the line at the first Shake Shack didn't get cannibalized, it got longer. And so we said, Uh oh, we got a tiger by the tail. So

16:34 Most of the restaurants we open I call restaurants of terroir. They're like a single vineyard wine. They belong where they were planted. Gramercy Tavern. Not only did we Name it after the neighborhood, but

16:48 You feel like you're there. Union Square Cafe. You feel like you're there. And as you said, Manhattan, the modern Those are restaurants of terroir. We call those our hard back books. But then Daily provisions is another example. Never intended it to be

17:04 Uh you know, more than one. Now there's There will be seven by three weeks from now. So it's still tiny relative to Shake Shack. But If you find that

17:16 People Have found a place in their heart for something you're doing. And it's becoming essential, it's becoming part of their lives. You don't have a right to hold it back from people. You don't have you don't have a right to not employ more people. You don't have a right to not give this gift

17:33 to communities, but you've got to really be clear that they love it. So then you can put it into paperback. And that's the difference. You have the snack. I mean, let's be honest. You can see a space or you can meet a Tom Coliccio and you see the opportunity and I appreciate Almost following the lead of the business and the brand and the customer You're almost following them on the journey, is what I'm hearing you say. It's a dialogue. You know, you when you start a restaurant, and I assume this is the case for a lot of businesses.

18:01 You definitely start with a huge amount of Belief. And passion. That your idea is fresh enough. that it's gonna solve a problem for somebody that didn't exist. I'm I've never been excited about

18:15 Doing a replica of I like to We call it writing a new cord. With the same existing notes. So in the same way that if you're a musician

18:27 There's only eight notes in the octave, plus some majors and minors. No one's inventing a new but that doesn't mean there cannot be an unlimited number of new songs. And in our case What I'm always doing. And this gets back to the Discovery. Is

18:43 I like to take five Different experiences that have stayed with me. Mostly restaurant experiences. And ask myself if you Merge those all together, what would you get?

18:56 One of the other ways that you are achieving scale is through an investment fund. And it's interesting going through your portfolio because you are in Salt and Straw, the ice cream company. You're in Pinky Cole, Slutty Vegan, um, but you're also in Clear, the company that helps you get through lines more quickly. Goldbelly. How are you deciding where to where to make investments to help others on their scaling journey? Yeah, well, so after Shake Shack had its public offering in twenty fifteen A couple of things happened. That that was another thing I wasn't all that excited to do, but I'm really glad we did because it was a wealth creator for

19:33 people on our a hundred percent of everyone on our team at that point got a chance to buy stock at the strike price. Which was twenty one dollars. The first trade happened at forty six dollars. We never you know, people were retiring mortgages and school loans and We never ever could have done that on our own.

19:51 But I said to myself, this was so great. Could we do it again? And I realize that Амна смайнов ідея з necessarily to ever do that again. So that's when we came up with the idea.

20:04 Of what if we could identify Other entrepreneurs who had Fantastic ideas we wish we had come up with. But we just hadn't. And

20:15 And who were leading cultures that we would be proud to associate with Union Square Hospitality Group. In terms of being an employee first. Caring deeply for the guest experience, caring deeply for their communities and their suppliers and and obviously their investors had to be good businesses. And so we raised a first fund And then we raised a second fund and we've got about

20:37 Twistments at this point. And I get a chance to be I'm not on any one of the boards, which is great, but I'm at meetings three days a week. The great uncle.

20:52 I'm no one's dad. Um, but I'm sort of like a great uncle. All the founders know that I'm a phone call away and you know, it's a good chance for me to Share stuff. Mistakes I've learned so that they don't have to make the same mistakes.

21:06 They can make new mistakes, but they don't have to make the same old ones. when we talk to investors, they're often talking about betting on the entrepreneur. It just feels like you've got a nose for the idea as well. How much of it for you is the person and how much is the concept? Well we're learning. Yeah. You know, because we look back I think anyone who's got a fundamental. You look back at the good ones you missed. And

21:28 Fortunately you look back at a lot of the bad ones you're happy you missed. And I think we've probably made more money by not betting on The ones. We're happy we missed. But I do think that in general.

21:41 The leadership is probably even more potent than the idea itself. I think A great leader Can

21:51 Pivot and make A decent idea even better. But I've never seen a great idea overcome bad leadership. More with Danny Meyer and we'll meet his daughter Hallie to hear how she's growing her popular New York City ice cream business, Cafe Pana. In just a minute.

22:11 Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show. Because every Friday we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely from Ford's CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There's gonna be two types of companies.

22:53 Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Calyubi. And on my podcast, Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future.

23:20 and we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Welcome back to Masters of Scale. You can find this conversation and more on the Masters of Scale YouTube channel. One of the other ways you're scaling is by raising a next generation of entrepreneurs. So I'd love to invite your daughter, Allie, up and join us on stage.

23:56 Thanks for having me. I'm thrilled you're here. Um, Hallie, part of your journey involves Rome as well. Will you will you tell us about what Rome is for you in your in your journey? It's kind of alarming how similar The journey of inspiration is Especially since growing up, I think. And especially since I've started my own business, there's been a lot of

24:18 kind of tension between Well Are you doing exactly what your dad's doing? Are you doing something totally different? And it's a very interesting tension, but it's No denying that

24:29 Rome is a huge It's just the place that For me, I think the story started when I traveled there with my family growing up. But I think it really kind of solidified when

24:42 I had an experience in actually after the twenty sixteen election. I decided to leave the start up I was working on. Um because it didn't feel like the right thing to do anymore. Was it in food space or it was, it was in the food tech space, actually. Yeah, it was a home cooked meal delivery service, which there are many of now, actually. But at the time I said you know what I wanna

25:03 sign up for a year of Ameri Corps service. Um And that year of service didn't begin until the following school year. I was like I think I want to open an ice cream business eventually. So I think I should just go to Rome.

25:18 because it's a place that I've loved growing up. And I found a cooking job at a place called the American Academy in Rome, Rome Sustainable Food Project, which is still hosting cooks from from around the world actually in this like fellowship program. I made it a goal to

25:33 Eat it at least two. gelateria's in Rome. Every single day I was there. Great goal. Um And I definitely did at least two. Good for you. And recorded all of the experiences, but all of it was, you know, with in mind like how can I put these

25:49 Notes together. Yeah. So tell us about Cafe Pana and What have you taken from your experience growing up with your dad? And what do you what are you doing differently? So I'll start with Cafe Pana. So Cafe Pana is an Italian inspired

26:04 uh ice cream store or business now because we have two locations. We make everything in house. We change the menu daily, which is kind of the The most fun part for me. We're based on the ingredients that are available at the market, or that's based on it. One is just

26:23 Wim. The next is definitely the ingredients available. The next is Customers. sending dozens of emails a week saying you really need to do this take on a Swedish dessert I had. It's banana with meringue and Nutella.

26:40 Got it. Great. We're gonna do that. And then they feel like they've just won the lottery because we made their flavor. That's the fun of it. It's like speaking to people in all of their different ice cream languages. But yeah, a lot of it does have to do with the with w the ingredients that are available and that was how the kitchen ran at the Rome Sustainable Food Project, the menu change daily. So that was fun to kind of like take that And at the gillottery I worked at in Rome as well. It was like every morning you got in, Okay, what are we making? So

27:06 That approach like Is That's what Keeps me excited. I think keeps my team pretty excited too and it keeps our customers excited. Yeah. Now at this stage we

27:15 The business is a little over five years old, the Gramercy location. And we opened a much bigger factory in Brooklyn in July. So it's also a storefront, but now we're producing all the ice cream there. So we've got a a lot more capacity than we did. So we we currently sell at those two stores. Um ship nationwide on Goldbelly. And sell to a growing roster of hand selected wholesale partners, specialty stores and restaurants. Yeah, well here definitely hearing this During the last twenty minutes I I've I'm like

27:54 Wow, I'm I'm really doing that. I think one of the things my dad is really good at is He doesn't give me advice unless I ask for it. Which I really appreciate. And usually You can correct me if you if you think I'm wrong, but I think usually the thing I come

28:09 to you for advice for is generally around HR moments and conversations. But I think uh What I'm hearing a lot of

28:20 From your stories. kind of where I'm at right now, which is A little bit of a an instinct to Press the brakes on Scale.

28:31 And for me it comes from Just like an obsession with the product itself. And just really, really believing that our success to date has to do with people's Love for the product.

28:44 And The And the places that they get it and their memories around that. And that Getting

28:52 Any bigger than a certain point. could potentially like Burst. The bubble of the obsession people have with it.

29:00 So I'm definitely hearing a lot of that. Yeah. How for you, how do you know, like you you're you're you're describing an instinct. Is it instinctual? Is it more analytical? Like are there data points you're looking at, or is this like I just feel that we might lose control of this, of the quality of the relationship with the customer. I think it's definitely feeling because there's plenty of data to suggest that People want more of the ice cream in more places. However I do think On like a restaurant.

29:29 There's There's plenty of ice cream companies out there, right? And so there's plenty of Yeah. There's something different about it. I can't I can't describe it. But you know, people see this as a product business as opposed to like a a full on experience, which is part of what I love about it, right? Because

29:48 our interaction with people. Can be like the majority of the speaking to their souls we do can be through the flavor, which I love because that's how I That's what keeps me going. Even though of course we have to have a nice experience at the register and you know, hopefully we're wiping your tables down in the cafe and you get your order on time if you order through DoorDash. But It's so different than putting on a show every single night.

30:10 in a restaurant. So I think that seeing other ice cream businesses stories of growth. Many of which I love. I love all ice cream. I'm truly obsessed with ice cream. My dad can Attest to that.

30:23 So can my mom. It's easy to see where A brand that people just adore and consider like a personality trait of theirs. can become something that

30:34 It's just Everyone's. Yeah. Suddenly. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm definitely Wrestling with that. Yeah.

30:41 Danny, was it um how did you react to your daughter going into um a version of the family business? Well Tally's bet, I love it. I don't think we ever said Hallie, you should do this or you should not do that. Hallie's been cooking her entire life.

30:59 Like I know when I was a kid growing up in St. Louis Instead of doing homework I would go out and You know, play touch football or Street hockey or whatever. Hallie did her homework.

31:10 And her version of You know, blowing off steam was to go read cookbooks. Mm. Um, Hallie, what what's success for you in this? See, this is this is the type of question that I mean you're just getting at the core of it. I that's my job.

31:25 So I think right now In this particular moment. I'm especially in the It's only over it's just over five years. I Was the only

31:36 person that wasn't an hourly staff member until A year and a half ago. Like I have done every single thing in the business. So everything I see through a very kind of like

31:47 operational lens and I'm working my way kind of Trying to work my way away from that. Because I know the importance now of

31:57 Taking your what you do in a day list. And that was the other thing that I was like wow, yeah. I guess this is another thing I've absorbed. really trying to make sure that I'm not doing things I'm not so good at because

32:09 I can bring the most to the table when I'm doing the things I'm really good at, which for me is the creative side, the menu development side, the recipes and all of that. It's really not. Managing managers, which I have done for four years, but God, it just I'm really excited to have someone who's good at doing that now. So I think that's a little bit in my way of saying.

32:30 Well what's the next step? That the product is perfect. And that everyone who buys it is just Obsessed with it. And we're we're there right now.

32:42 And so I think that's the That's the fear. It's like, well, what happens if you do more? But more specifically now that we have the Brooklyn location up and running. it's starting to be able to say yes to more wholesale partners. So a lot of people want a lot of small stores want to stock the product. Some bigger stores too. And some that I'm wondering Does this work? Does this not work?

33:03 But I think it's pressing the gas on wholesale out of this location and not pressing the gas on more scoop shops. Yeah. If I remember right, I've heard you talk about Not pursuing perfection. When you hear Hallie say the product is perfect, I don't like it. I don't think it's perfect. I don't think it's perfect. I just think it's so Great and fun. And it's you know What if you like it?

33:30 I don't like the word perfect. I love the ice cream. No. I think perfection is a recipe for unhappiness. I r I really do. And and so Yeah, I I'm really all about Pursuing excellence, which is for me the way I describe it.

33:47 No, you can have all the perfection you want. I definitely don't have any of it, so I I won't have it. Um'cause I can't. But what I love is the journey of excellence, which is this kind of balance between Honoring the work you did yesterday, flawed though it was, because we're all human. But honor it. This morning saying I really want to suck today.

34:09 Right. Everybody gave it their best. Even if it wasn't a great day, but honor it. And then figure out how could we do it a little bit better tomorrow. Uh it's a d phenomenal segue to you're both known for incredible customer service and hospitality.

34:25 What's either a non obvious component of that for you or a non obvious source of why you've become so great at that? Especially in the ice cream world where people have really, really strong emotional Attachments. specific order that they placed. Or the fact that

34:43 Their flavor is not Back. But I think the biggest lesson I've learned is Just how much you can make someone's day. If

34:52 You remember the flavor they like. You shoot them an email the week you're launching something like it. And they just It's that type of thing. The fact that

35:02 their whole day can be made by the fact that their local ice cream shop remember that they like A flavor called Galaxy. That has pink frosting in it. You know? Which sounds awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

35:15 How about for you, Danny? You know, I think about it a lot. I spent a lot of time both as a salesman when I was first living in New York. And I would drive around the city We didn't have the internet.

35:28 But Wherever I picked to eat lunch by myself was the highlight of my day. And I was nosing out places to eat, discovering new places. In all the boroughs. I often found that

35:39 Solo diners were not treated very well. And I traveled solo to London, I travelled solo to France. And a lot of times they would look down their nose'cause you were just one. And so a big

35:52 Part of My motivation. For hospitality is How I wanted to be treated. Well, I don't know about you, I'm super hungry now. Um so let's let's leave with this. Danny, you said you don't offer Halloween unless she asks for it. I'm asking you on behalf of everyone here and listening and watching. One piece of advice from each of you.

36:14 How you start. No, absolutely not. No. I think you sh you started the whole thing. So I I think if if you're an entrepreneur, I would say um Try to grow where you're planted before you just propagate. I like scaling.

36:32 I've I've learned to scale. I enjoy it'cause I like S people on our team get to grow. But I think it was a great What for whatever

36:43 Emotional reasons I didn't grow for ten years. The gift to me was that I planted roots. And I think we know this from grapevines that The deeper those roots dig into the soil.

36:57 The more flavor the the resulting wine will end up having. And so Try to grow where you're planted a little bit before you scale. Love that.

37:07 I think that's very much what's probably on my mind, uh and driving the slowness. The one piece of advice. that I have is not even from me, it's from Steven Sonnheim. Which I love because of

37:21 My grandmother and both of my parents. And it's a quote from Sunday in the park with George, which is about an artist. And It definitely has to do with Doing things at your own pace and not letting

37:34 External Forces. push you to move at any different pace. And it's anything you do. Let it come from you.

37:43 Then it will be new. Mm. Beautiful. Dan and Haley, thank you so much for being at Masterscale Live. Anything you do.

38:03 Let it come from you. Then it will be new. Wise words shared by Halle Meyer, and so many insightful lessons from both her and her father Danny in our conversation. I'm Jeff Berman. Thank you for listening.

38:27 Masters of Scales await what original. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our senior producer is Trisha Bobida. The production team includes Tucker Legurski, Masha Makatanina, Brandon Klein, Timothy Lou Lee. Our senior talent executive is Stephanie Stern. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastanelli and Brian Pew.

38:48 Original music by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcasts is the tall Malad. Visit mastersofscale.com to find the transcript for this episode and to subscribe to our newsletter. Special thanks to musician Margot McDonald, the entire Wait What events team and the crew at the Green Space in New York City.

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