Rohan Oza: The playbook for building billion-dollar consumer brands

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0:53 Hey folks, Jeff Berman here. I am thrilled to share some of the new names who will be joining us at this year's Masters of Scale summit. This may be our biggest stage yet. Reed Hastings, Meredith Whitaker, Van Jones, Amjad Masad, and more. Will be there with us October 20th through 22nd in San Francisco. If you're building something great, or you want to build something great, We want you there with us too.

1:20 Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. I started looking around to see who can m help make Videom water cool and broad because the product was great, package is great, but didn't have that zeitgeist.

1:44 Rohan Oz's new job was to make vitamin water stand out in a crowd beverage landscape. So two thousand four yeah. Right? The two guys at the height of the game in music were fifty and Jay. If you know, you know, but if you don't, that's rappers fifty cent and Jay-Z. But Vitamin Water was a scrappy young brand. How could they possibly afford a global superstar as their spokesperson? And the vision

2:10 Was To get fifty in the room. And how fifth could be the face of the brand. I'm like I said to F like I can't afford you. But I have an idea.

2:19 I said, we can do an equity game. I'll give you skin in the game. If you wanted to do this. And he's like Amen.

2:32 This is Masters of Scale. I'm Jeff Berman, your host. This week on the show, Rohan Oza. If we were erecting the Mount Rushmore of consumer marketing for the twenty first century, there is no question that our guests today would have a spot on that monument. The mastermind behind eight billion plus in exits, the guy who brought fifty cent into vitamin water with an equity deal that changed the way not only that brand grew, but changed the way celebrities and influencers ultimately play in the world of brand.

3:05 recently the co-founder of Poppy, which had a two billion dollar exit to Pepsi, the co-founder of Kavu. which is a a consumer brands uh investment fund where also you're partnering with founders. Rohan, thrilled to welcome you to Masters of Sca. Thank you, it's quite the intro. Really excited to dive in with you on the journey that you've had. We just take us back, like set the stage. Where do your entrepreneurial roots come from? Probably my family. Originally Indian. Born and raised in Africa, educated in England, and now I'm American. So like the sort of

3:36 The immigrant American dream story. And My family was all a bunch of businessmen. It's in the blood, it's in the culture.

3:45 And Initially the thought was I'd join my father's business. You know, Indian families, dad starts or the granddad starts to join it. What kind of business was that? And that's the problem. It was in agricultural equipment, hardware Things that I was one terrible at and two had no interest. And one of the things I push for is be passionate about what you're doing if you're allowed to do that.

4:05 Right. Sometimes you have to just work to get a paycheck, but if you're blessed people to be passionate about it, I think you can be a lot more successful. So I realized that if I did this, I would do okay with my dad, but I would never do really well. And so I kind of transitioned into consumer products via engineering, meaning I started in manufacturing. With Mars M and Ms. And then I went from there to Coca Cola. Why manufacturing with Mars Ms. Mars has created

4:29 Probably some of the most iconic Consumer brands. In the world. The power of brand is one thing that I Espouse a lot and

4:37 Mars is a great place to understand that. Like how have you created such legacy brands that a hundred years later are still massive? So why am I not sitting here talking to the head of manufacturing for Mars Eminem? Yeah,'cause they fired me. Yeah. So I went there and I started manufacturing and I wanted to pivot to marketing.

4:54 And so I'm like, what do I do? I came to the States, went to Michigan. And so why business school? Business school. It's not for everyone, by the way. But for me, it gave me intellectual maturity, which I think what I needed. It allowed me to shape where I wanted to go. And why Coke? Why did you choose to go there? I gravitate towards iconic brands. And that's why I think in my career I've tried to build iconic brands because my foundational learning Other than Mars, the other company that has probably some of the most iconic brands in the world was Coke at the time, right? Why do you think Coke took you and said, We want to make a bet on this guy?

5:26 This was the Olympics, yeah. So they didn't do a full summer internship, but it was like a abbreviated internship. And one of the guys a guy called Carl Swad actually ended up becoming one of my mentors there was like look this guy is high risk, high reward. We don't know if he's gonna be a

5:40 Brilliant or a train wreck. He's gonna be one of the two. He's not middle of the road. Let's just take the gamble on him. So I was like the last man picked from Jim Class. Did you understand why they would consider you high risk, high reward? As I've grown up. I realize I'm high risk, high reward. But at the time I didn't quite understand it. What led to the next step for you there?

6:00 Well, the next step was I ended up on the Brand Sprite, which I loved. And that's where I kinda learned. what became one of my mantras is influence influencer. 'Cause Sprite had suddenly become the super cool brand we did stuff with Kobe Bryant and Miss Y Elliott and Tim Duncan and in the African American community Sprite became super cool because of all the hip hop that we were doing. Which by the way, I had to learn whilst doing and I learned from super smart creative people. And then after that I got under Power Rate.

6:27 And I redefined Power Rate because no one really cared about the brand. It was like a dying brand. And so it was like sure, what harm can Rohan do? Right. So I put an excellent team together, revamped the whole thing. And the brand took off. And so what did you do? What did you take from Sprite and innovate to make Power Aid pop? First of all, packaging and redesign.

6:46 Your package is the brand you walk around with. So we're redesigned the brand, the packaging. I brought an influencer strategy to the mix. So we brought in different athletes into the mix because I think at the time Power Ray was just picking what Gatorade didn't want. And like that's not a strategy. Picking up leftovers isn't a strategy. Go find people you want. and drive forward. And so with new product, new packaging and an influence of strategy. I was able to get the

7:11 Coke butlers who are critical to Coke success to actually get behind the brand again. On the product and packaging side, I sat with um Jeff Curl from Stance Sucks several years ago and he talked about walking up and down aisles at grocery stores at Target at Walmart, et cetera, to look what products look all the same and and where is there an opportunity to differentiate. What was your process for figuring out how to reimagine the product and the packaging so it would stand out in the marketplace? It's funny you bring that up. My wife gets very upset when I go to the grocery store'cause it takes me two hours.'Cause I spend so much time going up and down looking at product package. And she's like, I just sent you for four things. Can you get back here quicker? But yes. I think it depends on the brand and the need. The key thing is you have to stand out.

7:54 So the product has to pop. There's no one thing. I think it's one you have to have a vision for what that brand needs to stand for. then you gotta put a strong creative team together. And then in the end there's a gut feel. Because if it's just research, then everyone's gonna have great packaging. Right. Because you have the same we should a agency, you'll show them ten designs. I think finding the right design and going with your gut is a big part of what makes packaging cool. On the celebrity side, going back to power aid it's not like celebrity endorsement was a new thing, right? I mean, celebrities have been endorsing products f long before you and I walked the earth. What did you see as the opportunity to do differently to evolve or to reinvent to make Power Aids stand out with your engagement with the celebrities? I think what I started power and I took it forward with me.

8:39 Is the importance Of engaging celebrities. or influences'cause celebrities were the influence of that time. Who felt your brand. Sometimes people just signed on a celeb'cause hey, let's pay the money and get it done. But They didn't feel the brand.

8:55 And I think it's important for them to feel the brand because when they do, they go above and beyond. And when we go forward and I'll talk about other brands, it makes a massive difference, especially on entrepreneurial brands. How do you know when they feel the brand? Is that gutter? I think you're deal with them. I think a lot of it is the interaction. I sat with fifty on Vite and Water and Justin Tim Blake on buy. We sat with Alex Earl on on Poppy and you can see how they react to the brand. Big difference. You have to sit with'cause a lot of times if you just go through the agent and you don't connect with the actual artist, you have no idea How they react to your brand. I think this is a really critical piece because whether it's an agency or an agent or a manager or a lawyer, whoever the subdivis working with, part of their job is to protect the talent.

9:36 Right. To protect time. Like they don't want you to have direct access to them. God forbid you pitch them something that they wouldn't recommend or they don't get credit for. You at this point in your career can get in the room with anyone. But for an entrepreneur who's not known, who doesn't have your track record, How do you advise them how to navigate that maze? It's all about relationships. First, make sure you have a good relationship with the Asian Because

9:59 You can't go around the agent. The agent's their go to person. So there's no going direct to So foster that direct relationship with the agent. And I've done that a lot over time.

10:09 Um That was number one, right? With fifty, it was Chris Lighty, it was uh Brick Yorn with Justin. Like I established the relationships Because then they trust you. And then oh you're not gonna try and do a side swipe pitch on the on the artist. And then a core part of the final negotiation is I'd like to say with the artist, because in the end, they're representing our brand. So all the upfront negotiation, you're never gonna get there. But

10:30 You know, it's almost a house. Before you write the check, you gotta do a final inspection. Okay, so power aid pops. Coke is starting to see the high reward, not the high risk side of of having the team. What happens next? So brands rocking and rolling, but this is the high risk part. I'm kind of Probably a little too cocky at this point. Because My team is the one running the show. Yeah. And

10:53 Instead of Coke moving me up the ranks, which I felt I deserved, uh they put someone above me. I just want to pause you for a second here because You are murdering it at power aid, things are happening, you're hard driving, you've got real vision. The best of companies would say like hell yeah, like this is a lap in we've got. Let's go figure out what's the next brand we can give them to go do it with. Why are they layering you? corporate America, there's a lot of chess moves. They get nervous. When you move very fast.

11:22 I was too entrepreneurial in my approach, which is difficult to do within the confines of corporate America. I think this is just super relatable for a lot of entrepreneurs. I went I like that phrase entrepreneur. I mean you're inside a big company. Okay, but so you get layered what happens next. And at the same time guy called Mike Rapoli had reached out to me. Mike's a super successful entrepreneur himself. He was the number two guy at Videum Water, he'd come in super early.

11:46 And then you're a CMO and he's like This is the guy. And Mike's also a gunslinger himself, so we kinda got along very well. And so I s I'd receive that offer and I'm like, you know what? Things happen for a reason. I went to Vide and Water. Um Became the CMO and

12:01 started what was the next and probably most important chapter of my life to lay the foundation for my future. Okay, so what what happens if vitamin water. So it was an incredible product at the time. But the biggest problem is like no one knew about it. And how do you do that? So At the time I took my spite experience, which was Very much an influence of strategy but Sprite.

12:20 I used to You and I old enough on this. The influences back then, by the way, were radio DJs. Oh yeah. Remember back in the day? Sure. So I back in the day, I flew in like About eighty DJs from the top sixty markets in the country into Vegas.

12:35 for a recording session and every artist around a watch show. And so every artist could hit twenty cities in an hour and a half. She basically created a Super Bowl radio row around an award show exactly that was a product promotion opportunity. Ahead of its time. Yeah. So I do that same thing and I thought of going radio DJs. Wow. And so I did partnerships across the country. I hired a whole set of field marketers. But

13:00 Well, cool. That felt the brand. Young, hip. dynamic, they knew the radio DJs, they knew the hot bartenders. But it was a lot of street marketing because there the digital world didn't exist there. And so I started looking around to see who can m help make Vitam water cool and broad.'Cause the product was great, package was great, but didn't have that zeitgeist. So I looked at two guys. They're talking about two thousand four, yeah.

13:23 Right. The two guys at the height of the game in music were fifty and Jay. Friend of mine, Seth Rodsky, actually had uh fifty's number. Or Chris Lady's. I had neither. I was a nobody. So he goes, I can cut you to Chris Lady. And Chris and I bonded. Remember I told you the importance of building relationships? She and I became good friends. And Incredible guy, super smart, came from the streets.

13:43 Hard life, he had hard life. Guy gets pitched. Twenty times a day. What broke through? How how did you get Chris to pay attention? I actually think the product and package did the work for me. In a big way,'cause he saw it. And then I painted the vision.

13:56 And the vision Was to get fifty in the room and how fifth could be the face of the brand. And he beforehand had never done that. He'd been like with sports and rebock and this and that music, but actually the face of a beverage brand was the first time.

14:11 Here's a problem, though. I said to F I can't afford you. But I have an idea. I said We can do an equity game.

14:19 I'll give you skin in the game if you wanted to do this. And he's like I'm in that quickly. Shocked. He's a very smart individual. So he understands business called.

14:29 And he knew what he was capable of more than I did. Because I had a number in my mind of what I thought fifty could make. And I think he made ten times that. I also didn't think the company would sell for four billion dollars. And Fifth got fully behind it. And so that was a big part of and he owned it. And funny, when he actually met Darius the founder, Darius walked up to him and said, By the way, I'm the real founder of Vitan World and fifty cracked up because Fifth basically just put on his back and said, I'm Vitan War. He basically refounded it. Yeah. And but it

15:01 It's fine, it lifted the brand. Still ahead, more with Rohan Oza on how he turned his beverage brand playbook into multiple massive exits. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There's gonna be two types of companies. Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered.

15:28 I'm Rana El Calyubi. And on my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. and we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives.

15:52 Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show. Because every Friday we release a second rapid response exclusively in the rapid response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there.

16:34 Welcome back to Masters of Scale. You can find this conversation and much more on our YouTube channel and Be sure to check out the show notes for a link to our newsletter. The vitamin water deal with 50 Cent fueled a wildly successful trajectory for the brand's parent company. It led to a$4.1 billion exit to Coca-Cola in 2007. But Rohan knew that working inside a giant company like Coke. Was not the right place for him. Instead, he took his winning playbook and built something new. It's called Kavu Consumer Partners, and Kavu blends traditional investing with hands on help for brands. The result

17:12 Dozens of success stories for health conscious companies like Poppy. Once upon a farm, Noom, the Farmer's Dog, the list of companies that you know well goes on and on. Rohan credits his co-founder for seeing the potential to make Kavu something different. My business partner, Brett. Saw it.

17:33 He was a hedge fund guy. he wanted to pivot into private equity. And he's like, but I've got to do it differently. 'Cause he's a hedge fund guy. So hedge fund guys always want an edge, right? What's the edge? And in his opinion, like Him raising a fund to deploy, there's no edge. He saw what I was doing.

17:49 And he's like ooh. This is a vision. And so he approached me and said, look, let's go create a fund where we can provide real value add. to companies we invest in. So we create a car Vu. Carvu stands for ceiling and visibility unlimited.

18:05 It's a flying term. I never knew that. But what it means that We help entrepreneurs guide. Assuming they're flying, they're flying their brands through turbulent times to clear skies. Right. So when you get on a plane and a pilot says Car Vu. Great. That's gonna be a nice flight.

18:19 So We create a Kavu against his vision, which was How do we leverage all what you and Steve have been doing and now do it in a much bigger scale. So that's why I pivoted,'cause before I was writing much smaller checks. Now as a fund, we can really go disrupt the landscape. And the mission for Car Vu was like, okay. It's

18:38 To democratize better living. for all humans and their families. That that was our scenario. Is it founders come and are pitching you and you fall in love with the founder, you fall in love with the idea, you fall in love with both. What's your process for choosing where you're going to invest your money and your time? Unfortunately for me No one ever just walks at the door and is, hey guys, I'm here. I'm brilliant. To find the best, you really have to go find it's aren't.

19:02 So we have a great team that goes out there. And there's a hunt. And so we've got to find the best brands. And Then you bond with the founders. It's their company. We're not running it, let's be clear. We just become

19:13 the wingman or wingwoman to them. on their branding journey. So And by the way, think about Swiss Army Knife, right? I don't have to fix everything on your brand. It's like you pick.

19:23 You want packaging? I got you. Influencer? Amazon. DT C Billboards.

19:30 Like we've got all these things in the mix where we can offer you either great pricing, great relationships, we do it ourselves. It really varies. And so they love it because they're like, oh, I'm getting money. Oh, and you guys can help me with the brand and brand is king. Like brand is king. Yeah. If you don't have that brand mode. What do you have? Yeah.

19:47 Right. I think part of it's also having a real combo of the founders. Are they willing to work together? Again, not my show, their show. And they should run it eighty percent. Ninety percent, but if they should be willing to maybe work a little bit on the stuff that we can provide value on. Yeah. And I think ninety percent of the time the founders have. So let's use poppy as as an example here. How does poppy become poppy in your world? I mean step back a little bit. So I went on a shock tank. So I was a shock on shock tank. And the funny thing is I did that as a pay it forward because I'm blessed. I'm living the American dream, right? I'm an immigrant. I've come to America. I'm an American now. I've been very successful.

20:23 And my personal belief, I don't care what side of the aisle you sit on, this is the greatest country in the world to be an entrepreneur. Hands down. Almost nowhere else on earth can you create products from scratch and in five years be worth Two billion, three billion, five billion. I mean I think it's inarguable. It is the environment for entrepreneurs in the US, all the conditions for it are better than anywhere in the world, and there are are literally Thousands of examples to back that up. And we're blessed. I mean Probably like for me, I I I wake up every day I'm like, I'm blessed to have been able to do this. So I go on a shock tank, pay it forward.

20:56 And sometimes you don't know, but when you do that, it actually got paid back to me, which is crazy. So I'm sitting there And I had always had this vision'cause understand I started my career as a soda guy. I love soda, but I stopped drinking it. Yeah. Because you know, I'm like do you want sugar, I don't want the artificial sweetness. And I always wanted a soda that I could Just feel good about.

21:14 So Every deal on Shark Tank I lost money. Basically. And then this one deal comes on. I'm like, here we go again, another beverage. It's called mother beverage. First of all, I don't like the name. It's a terrible package. It's in a glass bottle, which is no one can carry around because it breaks and no dice.

21:29 But The entrepreneurs. Seem cool. Great vibe. Good looking couple, like straight out of central costing. Husband wife founder. Husband wife founder. She's like seven months pregnant. I'm like, that's commitment. You know, she's

21:41 On a show just about to give birth. They make the pitch. So I like the founders and mother. I tried the product. I like to. Mm-hmm. And the one I like the most.

21:51 was the orange one. Still my favorite today. And the reason for me it was a cross between Fanta and Orangina. I'm like, Oh my God. Those are two drinks that I drank as a kid. I can now drink it every day.

22:03 And not feel bad. It's got fiber. It's got low sugar. Natural ingredients. There's zero guilt. It's what I call permissible guilt. It's completely permissible. All good.

22:14 And so I said I'm in. But what am I in for? I'm in for a brand that has no scalability in a package that's terrible. So

22:23 And I give Yeah, Allison and Steven a lot of credit. I said, Guys, we're shutting the company down. And we are gonna create a new company together. And I think That's a lot of faith in their answer. Yeah. Scary moment for an entrepreneur. And the company wasn't big. But for them it's still a lot of money, obviously. And so

22:37 They're trust. I give them that. So Basically, Allison, Steven. Me and Stevie. Sat down.

22:44 And with Kavu's backing. Basically co founded Bobby. Well. And so we got a bunch of packages and designs and to be fair I actually picked a different package to this.

22:54 It was very similar, but it was a different it was reverse knockout. The name was Stevie. Mm-hmm. The package we did together and I went in as a shock'cause I had to have to invest myself. And then

23:05 I spoke with Brett and he said, Look, if you're doing a beverage, car vu's in. So we'll back it. And so As a team. We co founded Poppy. Which is like

23:14 It's it's a unique and different scenario, right? So you take the original founders who had a great idea product. I brought the vision. Which was modern soda. Steve designs the package.

23:25 And the marketing DNA. And Carvu Funza. And even with Great product. phenomenal packaging capital behind it and a category that is basically being invented here. You're effectively inventing a new category. Um and as someone who's seventeen years cold turkey, I I mean I haven't had a Coca Cola in that long and I loved Coca Cola. Um I deeply appreciate poppy in the market. It doesn't just happen.

23:49 So what what are the inflection points that that get Poppy to to where you're ultimately selling it to Petsy for nearly two billion dollars? The world has changed. Right. All very digital. So Allison, Stevie, the team. All went into full digital mode.

24:05 And I think that was exacerbated by the fact we launched Poppy in March of twenty twenty. I can't remember what was happening in March of twenty twenty. There was a big thing. Two weeks later retailers called me and said, Sorry, we're not carrying you. the world shut down. Yeah. So suddenly we're pivoting and are forced to pivot. So we've got the influencer strategy. We become digital first. Amazon only.

24:29 And Take them the old school influence strategy and make it modern. That was a amazing team that pulled that together. So immediately there was a zeitgeist in the brand. Rohan, I I remember Papi popping in part because you had a founder who made a video that took off. Um, but it feels like there was a really intentional, almost laddered influencer strategy here. How did that work? How did you approach digital and social

24:55 In that Covid era as Poppy was launching. Because of COVID, we had to go digital first. And it forced us to become a modern digital marketing company off the bat. And so the first thing that happened was Alison

25:07 created um a TikTok that went viral. So immediately you got a founder who's creating a TikTok that goes viral, you got buzz off it. Then we have an incredible team. that we hired who are all young, dynamic women that live the brand. So we're not using an agency, we're not going external. We're doing it all within. So Stevie's writing the DNA, you've got an incredible team around that that's actually executing it. And what happened is that result in an incredible community. And Alison, the rest of the team.

25:34 Uh Worked. on building this incredible puppy community, which exists today, by the way. And I think then it started laddering up to the point that Big names like Haley Bieber and Kylie Jenner, all like but just drinking the product. They weren't even being paid. They were not paid, walking around paparazzi snapping them with the product. Correct. And they love it. So that's when you went for the call it the mega influencer. And to be fair

25:59 She took a risk on us, we took a risk on her, but Alex saw the vision. Alex also saw the vision really early. Stevie, Allison team all loved Alex. In fact, to be fair, I was being educated on Alex at the time. So contact credit there. But she one of the first influenc that did an equity strategy the same way fifty had done it as an artist back in the day on Videnwater. And that's what changed the game. And now every influencer wants an equity plan, the same way that artists and celebs Wanted it back in the day. There's a point at which if you are out of the demo or out of the core of what the product is marketing to, where you just have to hire the the right team and trust them. Is that part of it? I was cool twenty years ago. I'm not cool now. So

26:38 I can sequel. Mm-hmm. Someone else got to create the cool. The other question that comes up a lot with consumer brand founders is do I have to be the influencer? Do I have to be the face of the brand? When you're looking at a brand to invest in for Kavu and partner with founders, is that part of the inquiry for you? It varies like in some brands, like in Buy, for example, the face of the brand became Justin Timberlake. Not every founder wants to be the face of the brand. They want to be uh recognized and get credit for obviously and as they should for you know, the brand they create. But like in in Poppy's case.

27:08 Allison was front and center as well, right? There were a bunch of influence, but she was the founding influence of face on the brand. So it works in some circumstances. It doesn't. Uh in this case it did, like in in Vida Coco. Michael's an incredible operator, Mike Cirvin, but Madonna was a face of the brand. You know, and and I think he recognized Madonna's probably a better face than he was. Yeah. You know, but he's most of us would recognize that. But he's a bullying operator. I mean he's you know, he's got a three billion dollar brand plus now, so Before I have to let you go, Bessemer is one of a set of venture firms known for an anti portfolio. Is there one that got away? Is there one that you had a shot at investing in that you passed on where you go?

27:42 F me. I can't believe we didn't do that one. Try a couple. One was There's a product called The Ordinary? It's a beauty product. Yep. I love the founder.

27:53 Shame. rest in peace, we're a guy. He and I bonded. It was our first fund. It was a big check. And he was a hot Be fair, high risk, high reward guy. Yeah. And I think we got to cooperate.

28:05 We got too nervous. And because we're like if this doesn't work We're out of the game. Yeah. Right? Like because it was a third of the fund that you're going to do. You had to be safer at that. Safer. And that was that went on to sell for North Two billion. That would have that fund alone would have tripled off that one deal. Yeah, another one with great product, great package. And the other one was probably we had a deal on the table. It was for a brand called On the Shoe Company. Yeah. Yeah. And a little bit broader than our spectrum, but it was adjacent to what we're doing. And we had a deal ready to go. And found his way to sign.

28:34 Um That day they announced Roger Federer. Oh, I was gonna ask if it was before after Federer and that changed it. Every single investor re opped. Yeah. We were blocked out. Wow. And that would have been about A six seven bagger on a big check.

28:47 You referenced several mentors along the way. Was there a moment where one of them gave you a piece of advice or gave you an insight um into the world, the market, you personally D still with you today. I don't think there was one piece. I think it's it's it's an amalgamation of me learning. By watching. And so I looked at a lot of guys and how they did it and what they built. And to this day, right? Like whether it's from you know

29:12 Coke when I learned from a Darrell Carbon on how to do cool marketing or learning from Mike Roli at at Vitam Water how to create the right corporate culture. Or even today from a Chris Hall, like how do you actually operate and run a tight ship. Like I'm constantly learning. So I think for me, you should never feel like you know it. You should always be a student. And that's actually a phrase I got from Darius, which is like always be a student of the industry. Because it's a continual learning exercise and as the world evolves, you have to keep learning.

29:38 Well, I'm grateful to be a student sitting with you. Thank you. I hope uh we can have you back on to dive deeper into a lot of this, but um awesome having you on Masters of Scale. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks again to Rohan Oza for joining us. It is inspiring to see how Rohan is still evolving his brand building playbook to supercharge better for you products in nearly every grocery aisle. And if you want to hear more about Poppy's scale journey, be sure to check out the Masters of Skill episode we did with its other co-founders, Allison and Steven Ellsworth. We'll put a link in the show notes. I'm Jeff Berman. Thank you for listening. Masters of Scale is a Wait What original. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Senior Supervising Procer is Trisha Bobida.

30:31 Associate producer is Masha Makatanina. Videor is Noah Walstein. Senior town executive is Stephanie Stern. Mixing and mastering by the audio boys, Aaron Bastanelli and Brian Pew. Original music by the legendary Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcast is Letal Malad. Visit masters of scale dot com to find the transcript for this episode. And to subscribe to our newsletter. And Be sure to check out her YouTube channel.

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