Torchy's Tacos: Mike Rypka

0:03 We were on a little spot on Fifth Street and the landlord there he never gave us a contract for what he wanted for rent. Like we had kept coming to him and asking him like, Hey, we need to figure something out. We don't wanna stay here for free. We gotta pay you something like help us out and he gave us some crazy like ten or fifteen thousand dollar bill that we had no clue was even coming. And he's like, Well you got two days to pay it or you're out of here and Wow. We didn't have the ten or fifteen grand to pay him And he literally just cut off our electricity in the middle of lunch. He just came and w what do you mean he c he like pulled the plug? Now he

0:44 Came with one of his guys and Use bolt cutters and literally Cut off the power.

0:58 Welcome to How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements. I'm Guy Roz, and on the show today, how Mike Ripka went from dropping out of high school and dodging drug dealers. Baddest taco chains in America.

1:21 Torches. If you met Mike Ripka when he was a teenager, you'd conclude pretty quickly that he was going nowhere. Mike, as you will hear, was a total mess. And yet he would go on to build one of the fastest growing taco chains in America. with over a hundred and thirty locations and a business that now does over three hundred million dollars in sales a year. So you might call this a redemption story. Now I know that can sound a little cliched and predictable, but the truth is to get from where he was to where he is

2:07 didn't happen because of miracles. It happened because Mike Ripke made a decision. He decided he didn't want to be a screw up. He didn't want to be a victim. And the path from rock bottom to where he is now.

2:22 didn't happen overnight. Mike would spend decades grinding it out in kitchens across the US. And in those kitchens, he didn't just learn how to cook for lots of people. He learned how to manage inventory and staff and customers. But by the time Mike hit his early thirties,

2:40 He was out of work, broke, and trying to figure out how to make money. The answer came in a secondhand barbecue trailer that he bought and turned into a single taco truck in Austin. One truck One man in years of early mornings and late nights turned into a massive success story called Torchies Tacos. And it happened in spite of or maybe because of Mike's serious struggles as a teenager.

3:09 Struggles that landed him in a military academy and then eventually Rehab. Mike Ripke spent most of his childhood in Northern Virginia. By the time he was eight, his parents had split and his dad had moved out of the country. His mom worked long hours as a journalist, plus weekend shifts in retail to make ends meet. From a young age, Mike was around grown ups who smoked and drank heavily, and

3:33 It wasn't long until he started experimenting. himself. I just I I wanted to feel better, you know, and I didn't really have an outlet or someone to go to to help me feel better. And so I saw people drinking and and and doing other things and smiles on their face and I want some of that, you know? Um I can remember even at the age of five being at a party and um there was a keg off to the side and I grabbed some friends and we went and ran over and stuck our head under the keg and drank from it.

4:08 I used to sneak drinks from uh my parents' glasses of wine and beer when they'd go wash the dishes. I didn't love the taste of alcohol. I think most people don't, especially when you're young. But I think the thing I loved was that That feeling of when the buzz was coming on. And that was sort of just this feeling of calmness, hey, everything's gonna be okay. And when you're a kid and you're in a lot of pain, like

4:37 Anything that's gonna help soothe that, you're gonna go after more. You were um Mm-hmm. It's sort of this. strange.

4:47 kind of dichotomy,'cause on the one hand, you were a very good athlete. You played I think you played baseball and you played football. You were a pitcher, you were a a a starter on the football team. So you were going to practice and playing Yeah. Like Using drugs like Like

5:02 Crack o cane. I mean at one point I read about a drug dealer who had basically pulled a gun on you because you owed him money. Yes. And and you had to find

5:14 A way to pay him you found some old Savings bonds that were saved up for you. And you grab those and like Through Basically save your life.

5:23 Yeah, I uh I still don't know today how I was able to catch him. being under eighteen, but somehow I did and I would go to this bank and I think I went through Forty thousand dollars worth of savings bonds and You know, probably six months and crack and

5:41 Drugs and everything else. I guess the tipping point for your mom was she found out that you hadn't you hadn't gone to school for like Forty five straight days. And

5:53 And f basically made you get drug test and you came back just Just on fire. Like all light lit up. P a positive for Like several different drugs. Yeah. And put you into your first Sheeman facility.

6:06 Yeah, I was in in tenth grade. I was fifteen. Um I think I had LSD, PCP, crack cocaine, marijuana, and alcohol in my system. So my mom obviously freaked out and then they obviously knew I needed more help and that's how I ended up in Louisiana. So um I went to a place called You would stay there for a few months, I think. I was there for about nine months. Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah. Um and so this is your And

6:41 Miraculously um You kicked it. You you w you were able to Come out of there. Totally sober. Mm.

6:50 Yeah, I struggled some in the beginning. Um I'd run away from there twice and uh I'd use quite a few times when I was in there And Something just changed and um You know.

7:08 I found some help. and decided to actually start listening to what they were saying. And really kinda realize like, Oh crap, I really do have a problem with this stuff. Like I can't Control it. And um

7:24 My mother was coming down in the next two weeks, uh, with the sheriff to uh basically go take me to jail'cause she wouldn't allow me to go back on the streets and I had a bunch of charges were still holding over my head. These are charges for for illegal drug. possession and Yeah, drugs and um car theft and things like that. Um and so I don't know. I I Something changed and um I started showing up and and doing all the stuff that they were telling me to and and not because I felt I had to, because I wanted to. And um

8:02 But then that two weeks I said, Hey, let's let's give this guy a second chance. I think he really wants it now And so I got to stay at the treatment center instead of go to jail. Um you get back to to the D C area, um to Virginia and finish out high school. Um you did manage to and and during I guess the time when you came back you started working

8:25 In restaurants. First as a dishwasher and then You got a chance to be at a line cook how I mean, d were you already by the time you were a senior in high school thinking about a career in food or or was it just a job to do? A little bit of both. Um I loved working in restaurants. What I loved about it was I didn't have to think.

8:48 Yeah. And anyone who struggles with alcohol and drugs like thinking's kinda your worst enemy. Your mind doesn't wander, right? Because you've got a purpose. You're you know, you've got to either wash the dishes or if you're line cooked, you've got a you know, do the prep or you've gotta do do work on your station, right? It's it's like almost like this Automatic kind of

9:09 It's like being in a factory. Yeah. Yeah, you don't you don't have time to think and you're just, you know, on to the next thing, on to the next thing. And there's a rus from it, you know. There's there's nothing better when you're a chef or a cook of like going through a really hard Saturday or Sunday And

9:25 getting your butt kicked and like actually succeeding on the other side of it. So how did you I mean, your senior year of high school or you know How did you start to Yeah. get jobs cooking. I mean you weren't

9:39 Think you eventually got a job at a at a golf Club. In Springfield, Virginia. Where you were

9:47 Uh Like Cooking. for uh as a you know eighteen year old ha How did that

9:55 Who showed you what to do? So I had a mentor. His name was Brian. He was the executive chef there. He kinda took me under his wing. But I don't know, I just I fell in love with it. And

10:07 You know, I almost got fired, uh, because my knife scales were just horrible and I was kind of just anxious in the kitchen, so I was always dropping stuff and kinda not getting it together and He finally had one last stern talk with me and I I turned it around and um and he started really working with me and showing me things and I can remember him giving me a lot of advice around just Hey, if you want to do a career in this, like, you know

10:35 Your first. Five, ten years, like don't stay anywhere more than two years. Like learn as much as you can. Like Get your butt out there, working everywhere you can. Um and You know, learn learn learn. And so it was really, really helpful.

10:53 All right, so here you are, uh, just starting out in life. Um You're sober, you've got it together. Uh, and you're getting obviously some experience in the kitchen. Um, but then I I I guess that you actually started attending some college classes, right? Like what What were you thinking that you would do at that point? So I

11:10 I almost went to uh well I did. I went to a community college to start to become a counselor and I thought maybe I'll be a substance abuse counselor'cause I I like I love helping people. Mm. But Two months into my semester, I literally woke up in the middle of the night and I was like

11:30 I had this thought of like what the hell are you doing? Like you need to be a chef. You need to be in restaurants. Don't worry about it, you're gonna be fine. And So I trusted that and I woke I woke up that morning and ran downstairs and I was all excited and told my mother and said I'm dropping out of school she said, The hell you're not And uh so uh she made me finish my semester but uh we went and toward a bunch of culinary schools that next couple of months and I ended up at Johnson of Wales down in Miami.

12:03 This is nineteen ninety four, I think around ninety four you started Johnson and Wales. program, right, um in in culinary arts and so you get your degree. Um but Johnson Wales. And then I think right after you you went and got a bachelor's degree in hospitality management. So

12:22 Were you thinking I mean Do you remember at that around that time what you thought you might wanna do? Did you think I wanna Run restaurants or I wanna run I wanna cook. All of that, did you have a sense of what you thought you wanted to do?

12:37 N Horribly I d I didn't know sort of Exactly what direction I was gonna take. Um, but

12:47 I knew I wanted to be in kitchens. I loved cooking. I love being a chef. And I also knew that like At some point I'd love to start my own thing. And and I knew even at that age, like I never wanted to do something that was like super fine dining. Uh I wanted to do something that was more kind of for the masses, affordable, you know, sort of street food type.

13:14 Something So I I I had that early on inkling that, you know, at some point if I could, I'd I'd love to start my own place. Alright, so you graduate from Florida International and I think one of the first jobs you get is at actually at a five star restaurant. Um

13:33 Mark's place. in Fort Lauderdale on five star. Like this is tricky because there's Michelin and this this and there's five diamonds. And w what does five star mean if somebody gave five stars. But it was a fine dining restaurant, basically. And you were not the head chef, you were uh you were in charge of saute uh and sauces Making appetizers so Uh and this is like the mid nineties when kitchens were

13:59 not gentle places. I mean today everything's everything's on t tick tock and Instagram, so chefs have to be on their on guard. But Uh, what was the kitchen like? There. Uh it was rough. Uh actually while I was still in school when I worked at at Mark's place, um it was before I graduated. Um Super rough. I can remember dodging many a saute pans flying at my head.

14:21 Um and uh hot Uh spatulas of pasta water getting thrown at you too. Um yeah, it was it was rough. Lots of yelling, lots of screaming. There was a lot of you know, getting your ass handed to you, if you will, um in the kitchen. Um and just Super intense, but it was a a great learning experience. Like our menu changed every single day. And we were using ingredients from all over Latin America and the world.

14:52 Um and I can just You know, remember like Holy cow, like I didn't know you could do this stuff with truffles or sauce of fee root or Real hearts of palm or just different things we did. So it was pretty pretty impressive menu we had there. Yeah.

15:11 Well, you you would end up staying in South Florida for a couple of years after you graduated. doing different jobs. But eventually, I think in in ninety nine you go back to your sort of hometown area, you get a job. At the World Bank.

15:26 And uh and what it what what what did you do? I mean you're what, twenty four, twenty five years old. Twenty two at the time. Twenty two, wow. What was your job? Uh so I started as an assistant manager and my mom's now ex boyfriend at the time helped me get the job. He got me an introduction to someone at Marriott who ran all the food service there. So I got hired. And I showed up every day in a suit and a tie and kinda learning the learning the ropes. And uh we fed three to four thousand people a day from seven AM to three PM. So that's a lot of bodies moving through in that time frame. Um it was a huge cafe set up. Kinda like a food court. There was about twelve or thirteen stations and each station

16:18 Represented a different area of the world. I mean, anything you can think of, we had it on our menu. And two months. And to me being there, um, the chef left and they came to Little Well Me at twenty two and said, Hey, do you wanna be the executive chef? Here and I choked a little bit and I said, Hell yeah, I'll do it.

16:41 And um It was not easy in the beginning. I mean, I literally would get laughed at when I'd walk in the kitchen just because, you know, they're like, Who's this young kid? What the hell does he know? Right,'cause you were in charge of like seventy five people and I read that like They would call you boss, but sort of like Uh as a dis disparagement. Like to

17:03 not out of respect, but to be like you know,'cause you were a kid. Yeah. And there were there were these adults working in the kitchen, but you were essentially their boss and they they really didn't res they didn't respect you. No. No, not in those first three, four months for sure. I can remember them, you know, setting up things to like for stuff to fall and you know, making messes and just sabotage you. Yeah, it did sabotage me. So um and So I learned I was like, Okay, this is this is hard, I need to figure this out. And so

17:41 The one advice I got was like really work beside your folks and So I'd go in, I'd be there earlier than everyone, and I'd leave later than everyone. So I I had that going for me. And I would come in and I would set people's stations up for'em so that when they got to work, like their cutting board was there, their knives were there, their aprons were there, their towels were there. And over time just built this real sort of confidence of like, hey, Mike's really got our back. And he actually does what he says he's gonna do and if I'm in the weeds like he jumps in and and really helps us. Um and so I started to really gain their respect. And then we really focused on how do we have fun in the kitchen and start laughing and

18:29 Having a good time. You would last there about a year before you decide to move to Los Angeles in two thousand. Yeah. Yeah. So you um you're in LA for I think for about a year doing some work.

18:41 cooking at M T V and and Disney for for some time. And then you get a job in Houston In two thousand one for a really uh I'm assuming it was a really well paying job, you're you go out to work for a very successful energy company called Enron. Two thousand one. For Enron. Yes. And and again, am I right? It was like a well paying great opportunity. Great jobs. So they yeah, I mean Enron was the cat's meow back then. Rolling and dough. Rolling and dough. The stock price was through the roof. Um jobs getting created left and right. And I got hired to

19:24 Open this new like state of the art Cafe that was gonna have uh a full bake shop, homemade pasta, sushi station cook to order food in front of everybody. Um and so they were kind of Using my expertise and skills from what I had already gained and all the different places I'd worked, um, to be able to kinda create this very innovative fun menu to life in Houston, Texas, um for their folks. And so I got there, I started hiring people, and then I guess it was about a month and a half, two months after that.

20:01 That's when all the news broke about Enron. You're talking obviously about the Enron scandal in two thousand one where they there's basically cooking the books, right? They were uh uh lying about clearly lying about their business and It was a it was Uh a scam and it all unraveled and I think in a in a few months. It had gone from being one of the most valuable companies in the country.

20:22 to a totally bankrupt company. Yeah. That was a super challenging time. Um you know, I'd only been in Houston like four months at that point. Um I'd move everything and Moved to Texas and You know, I'm watching this company just crumble by the day, basically, like um they had their stock ticker on the um escalator to uh the elevators.

20:47 And um every day the the price would just drop and drop and drop and news cameras start showing up and like it was it was a madhouse. I guess the writing was on the wall and you knew that your job was was also um winding down. Yeah. outside of Austin working for Dell.

21:09 Running their food. Um catering program. And now you're in Austin and you're working at Dell and and tell me about Dell. I mean it it it seems like it was a pretty stable place to be. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, you gotta remember um late nineties, early two thousands, Dell was You know hot rocking and rolling. Um I ran all the uh food service over both campuses and there was about um twelve different cafes and different buildings.

21:39 And we also had a huge uh catering department that did tons of catering. So it's a a big, big job um and a lot of responsibility. I mean I was a charge of about, you know, ten to fifteen million dollars a year in food business. So um a lot, especially at You know, twenty five years old. Wow. Um And then

22:04 After I'd been there about two, two and a half years, they really started making a lot of changes and taking a lot of the liberties away and they really wanted things to be a lot more Sort of. The same across the board. And that's where sort of the

22:21 the taste of like, hey, why did I get in this business in the first place? It's'cause I love food. I love being creative. And so that's when I started getting back to thinking about maybe different restaurant concepts or something that I could do that could be really fun and um Kinda create something different out there. Yeah, I mean it's it's usually those moments, right, where

22:46 you start to get itchy feet. Was that our our gift? Right, that w where you start to get um frustrated that that actually it's like a sign from from God or the gods or whatever you believe in, which is maybe it's time to make a change and you did. I mean you you were at uh Dell for almost three years, but then you I guess out of frustration left and and helped um

23:07 started a new restaurant called Lucy's Boat Yard that you were brought on to kinda help But that's closes and this is now g takes us to about two thousand six. You're Now like thirty, thirty one. and trying to figure out the next step. And I guess you have a fr you had a friend in Austin, a guy named Bill Roberts, who

23:27 who had a Like a trailer. that like a barbecue trailer that he he had owned and he said, Hey Do you want to take this off my hands and

23:38 Like open up a taco truck or something. So, um he had this old barbecue trailer, he gotten it from his grandfather and um he couldn't uh he was trying to sell it. It was just a what was it, a smoker or a huge grill. Um, kinda what you see at like you know, carnivals or now what you see out there, you know, out in the yeah. Yeah, there's a kitchen um the whole nine yards and so you know, he couldn't sell it. Um And at that point there wasn't really a food truck slash food trailer culture that you see nowadays in different cities. Um, and definitely not in Austin.

24:21 Um and I had You know, had gone to some banks before that for trying to do a breakfast concept and they all pretty much laughed at me, you know, wrote big business plans and yeah, I didn't have any money. Um, I didn't know people with money. Um and that's really kinda almost how you have to start a restaurant. You know, bank's not gonna just take a bet on you and and give you Six hundred grand to go open a brick and mortar restaurant. And so, um

24:52 He had this trailer and he's like, hey, what do you think about opening a taco stand? I I thought he was nuts at first, cause you know, there's tacos every on every corner just about in Austin and so I sort of did this taco tour all around Texas and around the border towns and What I realized was like, man, there's some great tacos, but they're all kind of the same. They're all these sort of Street style tacos, all great, but they're very similar. And I was like

25:22 Well, I don't wanna go replicate that, right? Like these are history old recipes that these folks have been doing that have been handed down by grandma and and cousins and aunts and everyone else like Let's not try and compete with them. Let's go do our own thing. Like take this You know, vessel called the tortilla, and let's go have fun with it. Right.'Cause like in LA where I grew up, like uh

25:47 You know, a taco a t sort of traditional taco would be or you know be like al pastor or maybe a like a little bit of uh you know, carne asada with some some onions and cilantro and that's it. Yep, yep. Like that is it, right? Or uh, you know, pork tacos with bits of pineapple and

26:06 Uh some pickled onions. Yeah, yeah. And that's it. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like that's awesome, like and I I think you know, that's that was like the opposite of what I wanted to do. Like I wanted to take tacos and and put fried chicken in'em and fried shrimp and blackened salmon and brisket and, you know, all these different flavors that like Let's go have some fun. Um

26:34 And that's sort of the idea behind Torches and where it was born is just these gourmet street tacos. All right, let's talk so so two thousand six, you decide, all right, I'm gonna do a taco truck. Yeah. And first of all you call it Torchies. What's what's Torchies, what does that mean? So that actually came from Bill. Um we were struggling with the name. And he woke up

27:00 One morning. Called me super excited. He's like Dude, I got the name. Like we gotta meet. Let's go get coffee. And He had remembered something that happened in the nineties where he probably had a little too much to drink one night.

27:17 And was that a late night? Taco place that was here in Austin called Rosie's El Pastor. They were famous for their El Pastor tacos. And he sort of had this vision of this old Airstream trailer with neon torches with flames coming out of the Y And he hadn't remembered that. memory until literally that night or that morning when he came and he said, I've got the name. And when he said it, we both looked at each other and like that's it. That's the name. That should be Torches.

27:49 Torches just felt like very right, very inspired and like No, this is it. Like fi like Torch fired meats or but it could be a guy. It could be like the cook's name's Torchy. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So and it wasn't um

28:05 And that was the other thing. Like I never wanted a place that like had my name on it. Um,'cause I I always Felt like the place needed to be bigger than than me. Um and Mike's taco is just tacos ain't gonna do much for us. Yeah. Um I'm curious so alright, he has this trailer and he suggests that you

28:27 Do and you guys have agreed to do a taco truck. So how does it work? Are you gonna be partners? I mean, did you did you need a whole lot of money to st I can't imagine you need that much money to start this thing, but I imagine he would he was a co owner with you. Yeah, he was a co owner. So um I ended up taking a loan on my house, um and using that to help kinda get the trailer painted and get our logo on there, um, and buy some of the equipment. Um And then he used some of his money to kinda help set up our first spot. Um and you know, do some of the landscaping and things like that.

29:07 And where did you I mean, where did you s I you set up on a corner in Austin And what just like How does that work? Do you have to get a permit from the city? Like h can you just set it up anywhere? Yes, you definitely need a permit. They did have mobile vending permit back then. Um and we needed to have a commissary kitchen, so we figured that out. Um and I got a buddy who I knew owned a restaurant to help us. And um

29:40 So yeah, we opened on South First, um just south of downtown in this Undeveloped lot. There was a guy that was selling snow cones there before that went out of business. Um, who I had asked originally and he didn't want to uh share the spot with me and then I came back a month later and the poor guy was packing his stuff up and He gave me the landlord's number and I called him and um you know, f came to find out that whole spot was in a floodplain, so you can't build on it. And so having a food truck there's actually like the perfect use for it. So all right.

30:17 G let's just talk about food trucks for a moment, because two thousand six food trucks were not Yeah. Cool, right? It was like a it was like It was construction sites. They were, you know, trucks that would go to feed construction workers or maybe you'd like a get a go to a carnival, like one of these carnivals and there'd be like a food truck.

30:37 This was not something that a trained chef from Johnson and Wales would be doing at that time. Yeah, yeah. My my I remember my friends going, What the hell are you doing opening a food truck, dude? Like, how is that even gonna work? Um and You know, I I I don't know why I just and I guess I think when, you know, folks that are entrepreneurs or that have passion about a business like You just won't hear no. Um, and I can remember people sort of challenging me and

31:11 I just like, look, this is what I can afford and this is what I'm gonna do and I'm gonna figure it out. And the owner of the land where you were set up. Uh Basically I I I I think he was letting you kind of squat there for free.

31:27 If I'm not mistaken, but then he was like okay now you gotta Pay. So we t we talk about South first'cause that was really kind of where we found our home. So before that We were on a little spot on Fifth Street and the landlord there he never gave us a contract for what he wanted for rent. Like we've kept coming to him and asking him like, Hey, we need to figure something out. We don't wanna stay here for free. We gotta pay you something like Help us out and

31:56 He gave us some crazy like ten or fifteen thousand dollar bill that we had no clue that was even coming. And he's like, Well you got two days to pay it or you're out of here. And so Wow. We didn't have the ten or fifteen grand to pay him. And he literally just cut off our electricity in the middle of lunch. He just came and w what do you mean? He c he like pulled the plug? Now he came with one of his guys and used bolt cutters and literally

32:24 Cut off the power. He cut the power line in the middle of lunch. Yes, he cut the power line. What did you do? Did you run out out and go, What the hell are you doing, man? I I did not want to get in a fight with him. Um And so I had to kinda like close up shop that day and uh We ended up for a week literally Cooking out of Bill's driveway. We

32:48 took the trailer and we hooked up the power to the trailer at his house, which was totally illegal at the time, but You know, we were trying to stay in business and and you know, keep some cash coming. Well we come back in just a moment. how partners, publicity, and$15,000 worth of pumpkins help Torchies grow into one of the most popular taco chains. America.

33:12 Stay with us. I'm Guy Roz, and you're listening. how I built this. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So it's 2006 and Torchie's Tacos is just a single food truck parked off South First Street in Austin, Texas. Meanwhile, founder Mike Ripka's gone from managing huge kitchens at the World Bank and Dell.

33:46 To toiling away in a trail, pretty much doing Everything. himself. Yeah, so seven days a week, five AM to midnight. Every day I'd start I'd

33:59 Open everything up I get the prep going, I'd get the gas grills going, um I'd welcome the employees, the one one or two employees I had at that point. Um you know, pretty much every day you had to go shop. And so, because it just wasn't enough space and we weren't doing a lot of volume either. And I didn't have some big runway budget. of like, you know, hey, here's half a million dollars in the bank for your first six months of operating costs. Like I basically

34:30 Took a loan on my house and maxed out my credit cards and got the doors open. And so like every dollar that came in the register mattered. I I imagine you were not you were gonna be making a lot less money than you made a Dell. Yeah, I mean no money. Uh At least in the beginning. Um I didn't get a paycheck, I think. For the first two years I was in business. And what and and your menu is pretty

34:55 I mean you did just a few things initially. It wasn't like w I don't even think it was just tacos, right? It was like fajitas. What what what were you making? Yeah, so we we started with uh kind of a build your own breakfast taco. Like chorizo and egg. Yeah, chorizo egg, bacon. So breakfast tacos are real big in Austin, so I I I wanted to have that. Um And then You know, we started with kinda the basics. We had a barbacoa, a green chili pork, and then we had a chicken and steak fajita, and then you could make a burrito or get a fajita plate. And our first

35:34 Taco of the month was called the trailer park, which is our number one selling taco today. Um, all these years later. Fried chicken, green chilies, lettuce, pico, there's some uh shredded jack and cheddar cheese and it comes with a creamy poblano ranch. And uh if you want it trashy, you can take off the lettuce and put queso on there. And and so When you la I mean, when you launched it, right, in the first couple of weeks or months

36:03 I from what I've seen, I've looked at a map of this place, I mean maybe it's it's a little different now, but Two thousand six. It doesn't it it was It there was nothing around there. Like who went there? What did you have customers who had w there were there just hours that would go by with nobody coming up and ordering any food? Yeah, it was it was very tough. You know, again, so there's this stigma of like At that point, like Roachcoach, right? Like is it even safe to eat in a trailer. You know what I mean? Like is it safe in there? Inspected by the didn't by the food, you know, whatever. Is it is is it safe. Now the one thing I had going for me was we were on the right side of South First. So all the morning traffic.

36:48 going to downtown was passing right by our trailer. And so we were perfect for breakfast tacos. The question was How do you get'em to turn in there in the first place. And so I learned real quick, like How to do grassroots marketing. So I had a red Vespa. And I would make chips and salsa because it was cheap.

37:14 and print out a ton of menus and I would go hit every time Dick and Harry Dentist office, office office, um... You know, tire shop. Lou Place, salon, wherever they'd let me in and I'd go hand out samples of chips and salsa and give them my menu. Um and we started delivering. Very early on. Um when you say we, it was you and who else? So it's me and I had a cook named Juan.

37:45 And I had a delivery driver. We took the orders by phone. Um there was no DoorDash or Uber Eats at this point. And uh We'd go deliver'em on Novespa. So I had a a setup on the back, you know, we'd put all the food in there and and go hand deliver it to folks. You know, today if you were to start this, right, uh you'd have like a A branding agency that would say, Okay, you wanna call this like chef driven menu, right? Like You weren't just some dude who was just making tacos, like you really came from the culinary world.

38:20 Did you advertise that in any way? Did people know that? Or were you just I mean, how did you differentiate in the minds of consumers, there's a lot of taco options. Even in Austin in two thousand six, there were a ton of taco options. So why Why would

38:36 Like what made your how how did you convey that your place was different? You know, I don't know that there was some big communication plan around it. It was really about just getting my food in people's mouth. So we did lots of events, we did lots of giveaways. I would go donate food to a school, show up at their carnival at the school and and serve tacos and give some of the proceeds back to the school. Um, so we just really got involved and inundated with the community. Um was really How we got the word out and how we got people to to know who and what we are. So I guess by the end of that summer.

39:20 You start to get some traction. What was your lifestyle like? I mean, here you are, you're in the early thirties. You had you had just come off pretty steady uh jobs where I'm assuming you had pretty steady hours and Decent life balance now. It's you and Juan.

39:39 And I'm imagining you're working at least Fifty, sixty more hours a week? Oh I a hundred hours a week, literally. Five A. M to midnight, seven days a week. Wow. Yeah. How did how did you cope with that? Did you Did you like it? Did it get you down? Did it

39:57 I don't know. It was stressful. But I had my eye on a prize, right? Like I What was the prize? Well, the prize was to really get this business off of ground so it could sustain itself. Um it wasn't about you were not profitable yet. No, not even close. And

40:16 The hard thing for us was just the sales. Um and Early on at that south first spot. My Partner Bill comes to me with this bright idea, um and lets me know that we've got a eighteen wheeler truck of pumpkins coming. Exactly.

40:35 Yeah. I t told him he was nuts, but it was around Halloween time and Unbeknownst to me, he puts you know, I think it was around fifteen thousand dollars worth of pumpkins on our business Amex card. And uh you know, his thoughts was like hey, let's do a pumpkin patch and

40:56 help drive some business to the trailer. And so We opened this pumpkin patch and I can remember just you know on the premises right next to the trailer, yeah. And and the idea with a pumpkin patch was to presumably to attract people to the taco truck. Yep, sell some pumpkins and get'em to try some tacos while they're there. And so uh we opened this pumpkin patch. And we're doing fine. We're selling some pumpkins, but you know, here it is, it's about October fifteenth. And like I still have like an I don't know if you know how many pumpkins come in to eighteen wheeler, but it's forty four pallets of pumpkins. Like it's a lot of pumpkins. Thousands of pumpkins of pumpkins. Yeah. And I'm like counting the days like once Halloween hits.

41:44 And so one day it was like a Tuesday or Wednesday this uh News van shows up and like Hey We'd love to interview you and do a story and we're like, What are you talking about? He's like You guys are one of the only people that have pumpkins left in Austin, and we want to do a story about it. There's a pumpkin shortage this year. I was like, really?

42:06 I was so busy I wasn't paying attention to the pumpkin shortage out there. Um I was just trying to make tacos and make a living and uh So he does this interview, and like within two weeks we end up selling all the pumpkins that we had bought. and got some new customers, um not tons, but definitely got more exposure to who we were. I can remember just thinking like, holy cow, that was a bet that like really could have gone wrong if that didn't happen. Yeah.

42:38 So I I'm curious about Overall. sort of financial situation. I mean You know, on the one hand you're grinding

42:48 Your trying to get to sustainability, but what about And it was just the two of you who were who are financing or funding this thing, you and Bill. Um I mean

42:59 were there d do you remember any specific moments where You weren't sure you were gonna make payroll? I mean damn near every week it felt like. Um, you know, there were definitely weeks where I was like, Holy cow, it's Wednesday and I need like three thousand bucks to make payroll and we've got a thousand in there. Like how's this even gonna happen? And

43:24 We'd get these little breaks, right? I'd get a call and I'd have a catering for like a Thursday night to go cater for heatas for a river boat. Or You know, there may not quite be enough in the bank, but I knew it was gonna be a great sunny weekend and I'd cut the checks hoping they didn't bounce and

43:46 Yeah, we'd get enough Sales over the weekend, uh cover the float and and not get in trouble, but it was real, real dicey at that point. How did you manage to the stress of doing all of these things all the time, every day, and without a single day off? It was a lot. Um lots of coffee, lots of Red Bull in terms of keeping awake.

44:08 You know, I think the thing that I leaned on the most is, you know, I had this recovery background. that like really kinda helped me I'd been through rough times in my life, right? Like I'd seen what darkness looked like And I knew that if I did the right things for the right reasons Whether the business succeeded or not, like I was gonna be okay. And

44:34 Um That would give me enough strength and enough grit to like Do it one more day, put one more foot in front of the other, and just have some faith to like just just keep doing what you're doing, Mike. It's almost like Staying

44:51 So busy that you couldn't stop. And let your mind wander was like Or you Just sort of an extension of your Ongoing recovery. Yeah.

45:01 Yeah. It was about it was about doing, you know Um I like to say My job is to chop wood and carry water and eventually the house gets built, right? Like If I'll chop the wood and don't carry the water, the house isn't gonna get built. So

45:18 Alright, so you are Um you know, on South First Street and Two thousand seven. You get um

45:28 some locals in Austin who wanna make an investment and and and suggest or I guess help you get a second truck. And this is just sort of the beginning of the process of a group of local people who wanna invest in the business. I guess Feel your original partner. decides to step away, he gets bought out, um Uh and there's a couple that

45:50 um invest a little bit of money, Farrell and Rebecca Cubina or Cabana. Locals in Austin. And what when when they came to invest, what did they W did you have a plan? How did that come about?

46:05 So at this point we were finally having some success. So before that happened, we got a big write-up in Austin Chronicle. And that really helped. change things. So we were definitely on our way to like We were having Lines.

46:22 twenty, thirty people long every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Lunches were starting to pick up during the week, dinners were getting better. And so we knew we like had something and we figured that like We probably couldn't get enough money to open a restaurant yet, but maybe we could at least open a second trailer and kind of extend the brand a little bit. And so did you

46:47 Did you know these people who Who were interested to like were they friends? Bill knew them. Uh he had done business with them. Uh so Farrell was a builder. So he built a lot of houses in Austin And they had a relationship because they would work together. Uh Bill would do the landscape and and Farrell would do the house building. So they had worked together quite a bit and uh We knew that we were gonna have to raise money to help open the second trailer because we were all tapped at that point. And so we brought Farrell on and showed him the finances and what we were doing.

47:27 Had him come try the food. And he was just blown away. He's like, Man, I've never had tacos like this, like Holy crap. And His wife Rebecca thought he was nuts. But they were sort of serial entrepreneurs, right? And so they kinda knew the game. So

47:46 Having someone on the team that like knew about business that could, you know, help navigate some of the things that I was still learning on the fly was really helpful to have them kinda on the team and and to be able to, you know, f help finance the second trailer. So Um and we took some of that money to kinda help just I hadn't had a paycheck yet, right? And uh so I took a little bit of that cash and just kinda like kept my house from getting foreclosed on and got

48:15 Caught up a little bit on some bills. All right. So they're now so you now have some investors and so all of those people were now uh partners I it was uh I it was um the Far Farrell and Rebecca and then Uh a guy named Bob Gentry bought out Bill.

48:33 The original partner There was another guy involved named Jay. Um and with with their help Um not only were you able to open up second truck, but but by two thousand eight.

48:46 you were able to get a brick and mortar location. Um And Let's just pause for a moment because this is a An important turning point, right? You have two years of

48:57 grinding away in taco trucks and now you've got a brick and mortar location doesn't mean the grind is gonna end. For sure it won't. But at this point now having Some investors involved. Are you guys starting to articulate a vision of what you think this could be? Like was it Was it too early to talk about multiple locations or were you already talking about that possibility? A little yes and a little no. Our first goal was we definitely

49:24 At first we kinda argued about like, hey, do we just open a bunch of trailers'cause they're cheap and we move'em. And I was very much against that because I was like Hey, look, this is a great way to start, but it's not a good way to sustain. It's very weather dependent. It's a lot of heavy lifting every day of like shipping food back and forth. And so I was really like, Hey, we gotta get a brick and mortar. I know it's expensive, but that's the way to do this. And it was a little bit of defense because

49:58 Trailer location. We we couldn't get more than a year lease. And every time the lease came up, our landlord wanted to double the rent. You know, he saw the lines and Was like I can make more money off these guys. And uh

50:14 Farrell being in real estate and construction, you know, had a real good eye for that. So we kinda put him in charge of like, Hey, go find us the next spot that's Somewhere close to here that but not too close, but that like we could still capture our customers. And so that's how we found our South First Spot. Okay, so now you've got This the brick and mortar. And and and and then

50:38 And two, you opened up two in two thousand and eight. Tell me a little bit about the look and the vibe. Like this is This is just on the cusp of Austin and forgive me'cause I I I hate to use this language, but like becoming more corporate, right? Like South by South West, still very indie. Like now you go and it does still fun, Austin's still amazing, but

51:00 It was still a little bit of a kind of a sleepy cultural Town, right? So So The vibe I think

51:12 Right. Like the whole I think like the whole motto of Austin was keep Austin weird, right? And so how did your like look and feel We definitely had that vibe, especially early on. So a lot of used restaurant equipment. Paint.

51:30 A little bit of decor. Not a whole lot in terms of like a super well thought out like this is how Um we did incorporate. Some of our colors from our logo.

51:44 Your logo on a little devil. It was like a devil with a with a toilet plunger in its mouth. A pitchfork. Okay. Am I the first one to say that? Yeah. I haven't heard that one before. Okay, it's a pitchfork. All right. I got you. No, you're good. Uh Torchi uh he's he's sort of my alter ego when Bill and I first started Torchies, we were Even though we were just opening a taco truck, we definitely still wanted to have like a good brand. And we did a lot of talking about like great brands and What makes'em special and and a lot of the good brands out there, like Nike has the swoosh. Like if you just saw the swosh, you know that's Nike. Starbucks has the siren and so on and so forth. And so we were like, Well what what is that for Torchies? And we talked about pitchforks and this and that and

52:40 I had the same kinda moment that Bill had when he came to me with the name. I like woke up in the morning super excited and I I just had this idea of like It needs to be a little Baby devil. A baby devil in a diaper. Yes. And um and and that was that was the premise of Torchies was We were a place to really come let your hair down.

53:07 Be who you are. Be original. Take all the stress of life and just come enjoy some damn good food. Like the little angel on my shoulder says, hey, you should probably eat the kale salad. It's healthy, you need to go work out. And Torchi on the other hand is like fuck that, drink a margarita, have some queso and have a damn good taco. And uh and that was that was sort of what Torchi is about. And and as you sort of uh once you have the brick and mortar locations, was the menu

53:37 I'm assuming it was it was expanded. I mean you had How are you coming up with different like You know, for example, I don't know Uh a taco with um Like just the things that you would add to the taco. Like you know, you've got a taco with

53:52 Carnitas, teriyaki sauce, bacon Corn relish. Kotilla cheese, I mean A lot of different cultures and flavors blended into that thing. How would you Come up with those ideas.

54:05 Very early on me and Bill agreed that like, hey, we wouldn't do anything unless it came from an inspired place. Might sound a little hokey, but Sometimes that meant that like It might take you a while to like come up with something because it didn't feel very authentic.

54:25 And what I mean by that was It would be anything from hey I'm in the grocery store And I see an ingredient like a miso paste and It sparks an idea of like, Ooh, I've had that with sea bass and what if I did this and then And then how would I format that in a taco? And what I found

54:48 Is when I've allowed myself that space and time to do that that like typically The stuff that wins. I nail on the first recipe. Um, there's not a lot of like

55:00 back and forth and testing and this and that. It's like You have that idea, that inspiration, you go in the kitchen and it all just kinda works and works out perfect. All right, even with these two restaurants, from what I understand. Torches was still not profitable. And and one of the challenges is that when you

55:19 you you guys are opening more locations in Austin. I think by the end of that year you'd four locations. And then Two thousand ten. you opened the first location in Dallas. And I think I read that you guys couldn't still could not get Lines of credit. You couldn't get banks to give you lines of credit and a lot I mean, this is now the financial crisis, right? So of course it's gonna be challenging. So I'm sure it was stressful that

55:44 That you were just kind of treading water. Even now five six years into this business. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it it was definitely a challenge and I think Just like

55:58 Yeah, the thing that kept giving us hope was we were open in these locations and we were doing really good business. And at that point we were really starting to capture A lot of fans. Um and the reason we opened in Dallas is'cause we had people begging for us to come up there. And when we opened, they came out in droves. Um, I mean we had lines out the door for weeks and months, um when we opened our Dallas location. So We knew we had something and part of part of growing a business isn't always that profitable, right? Like you're constantly investing kinda to the next phase, which you know, typically if you do it right, you kinda wanna be a little overinvested ahead of yourself.

56:47 So that you've got the team that can execute it, so that you can do it at a high level enough to to make it work. When you opened that location in Dallas And then subsequent locations. How did you explain what the culture was to the team? Like Hey everybody, we're opening this Torchies. This is what Torchies is.

57:09 And you guys have to personify that, embody that. Wha what what was your explanation? So, uh we had a handbook at that point. Um, you know, so some of that some of our cultures and values were were in that. We did about three weeks of training with those new employees. I was up there, all the partners were up there. We did lots of storytelling in terms of like Where we started, the kind of things we've been through. We

57:38 Get our folks super involved in lots of tasting classes. Um, and one of our big mantras is if it's not damn good, don't serve it. And so to really ingrain that culture of like hey, like You know, it's okay to not have Pico if your tomatoes aren't ripe. Like just don't serve it. Right. Like a customer Well understand Hey

58:03 We got a bad batch of tomatoes today, so we don't have Pico versus hey, let's serve yellow tomatoes in our Pico that, you know, is hard and tastes like crap, you know. So Um, it's really about Um getting that buy in from your folks. Being consistent with your values in terms of, you know, making sure that Yeah.

58:25 that people understand what's important every day. Um, you know, we we have what we call the the our war winning formula. Which is damn good food, damn good hospitality, and damn good shifts. And damn good tacos is your Trademarked Motto.

58:41 Yes. I should say. You trademark damn good tacos. Yeah. And it came from our customers, um that said, Damn these tacos are good. What the hell are you putting in these things, you know? And um We decided to add damn good. as really a guiding light of like, hey, this is the level it needs to be Every day, every shift, every time when someone comes in here, it needs to be damn good.

59:07 And when you focus on that and when you really drive that home with your folks Um, they're able to do that, you know? And you end up with a very passionate employee team member base that like cares about the food that like holds each other accountable when something's not right and they bring a tasting spoon to the manager and make sure like Hey, does this Diablo sauce taste right? Are these beans good? Um and That kind of culture um has to get cultivated and you need to do it every day kinda without fail.

59:46 When we come back after a quick break. A critic torches the tacos, a rival chain shows up with copycat recipes. And Mike? He's out. CEO.

59:57 But that's not the end of the story. Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Hey, welcome back to how I built this. So it's 2012, and Torchies Tacos is up to 11 locations. Most are in Austin, next came Dallas, and now They've just opened up. In Houston.

1:00:34 And uh a very A prominent respected food critic. Named Alison Cook, James Beard Award-winning food critic, comes to the restaurant and basically just just like trashes the restaurant. She just says. you know, uh you guys have lost the magic, the the ingredients aren't it's the quality's gone down. I wish They would focus more on

1:00:57 you know, quality rather than just expand, expand, expand. And uh that's not a good review to receive. No. Um and you did something pretty creative. You actually responded to her article in the comments section of the article. I well first off, before that, I called their office and said, hey, I'd love to talk to Allison. I'm not trying to change the review, but I'd like to know Cause one of her big complaints was a busser kept trying to take her menu.

1:01:26 And I don't know why our busser was doing that that day. I think he just was on autopilot, like clean the tables, clean the menus, like whatever he was thinking. And so I wanted to be able to coach that team member. And they would not let me talk to her and that just really pissed me off. It's like I'm not trying to change your review, I just wanna Yeah, make su Our restaurant as good as I can. I'd like to know who it is, so I can coach him.

1:01:52 And um So I responded and and basically Called her out and said, Hey look. You know, I'm gonna be there in two days from twelve to two. Bringing this article and I'm gonna be giving away this tacos that she reamed us on.

1:02:10 And you can vote for yourself whether you agree with with her or not. 'Cause I just I felt real passionate about our food and like, hey, you know,'cause it was obvious that like This thing the busser was doing is what kinda killed her experience. It wasn't the food. It wasn't, you know, she was recalling her memory from eating at the trailer. Under an oak tree.

1:02:32 in the middle of spring when it's seventy two degrees out. Like that's hard to compare that memory with you know, being in a brick and mortar in Houston, right? And so My point was is like we haven't done anything to change the food. The food's just as damn good as it was in that trailer, if not better. And come on down and I'll prove it to you. You said if you print if you print out the article and bring it, we'll give you a free taco. Yeah, we'll give you a free taco. And so and then you can and then I wanna hear your vote. And uh and I think out of the three hundred articles we got

1:03:07 Um, only two people agreed with the article. So you can't please everybody. But that's a pretty impressive vote change there. So I'll take it. Well I I uh in her in her defense, I read the original review and I feel like She was it was a tough love review. She was saying, I love Torchise, what's going on? And I And so I think in her defense you could say that it also It must have perked you your your

1:03:33 It must have perked you up a little bit and and it must have made you think, Well, what's going on at that restaurant? Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. Well, and that's why I called her'cause I wanted to know, like, hey like You know. Give me some more details so I can like Fix this, right? Yeah.

1:03:46 Okay, so you guys are still but I think still not profitable, right? I mean you're growing, but still it's getting tough. Farrell had And Rebecca had starting to take in a small pay. And this is six years in, I should say. So it's been a grind. I mean you were on a hamster wheel for six years already. And so You know, so we're starting to, you know, take a little bit of money and just from a paycheck standpoint, but we we were definitely weren't taking any kinda like dividends or anything like that out. Mike, I wanna ask you a personal question here, which I I I I often ask, not ever in every case, but

1:04:28 We didn't mention that you had gotten married around two thousand eight. And I think your marriage Broke apart. Around Two thousand twelve. All of this is going on, you're b expanding, you're building the restaurants.

1:04:42 And personally you're going through this crisis. Yeah. We didn't mention that that also, you know Your mom had passed away. A couple of years before

1:04:52 Um D I I don't know, I mean, do you again marriage and and and partnership is complex, relationships are complex, but I imagine that you working a hundred hours a week couldn't have helped. Yeah, I mean I you know I I by the time I met her, I was working less. Um I wasn't you know, that hundred hours was really that first kind of

1:05:14 Year and a half, two years. And I met her in two thousand eight Um And that same year my mom passed away from ovarian cancer. So it's just really sort of

1:05:33 It was just a uh you know, on one hand I I had this woman that was potentially gonna be my wife and you know, was thinking about marriage and then, you know, my mom passed away. So it was just it was a really kind of weird and confusing time. And then also you know, I'm like, I've got this business that's new that's like You know, I'm starting to make a little bit of money, but you know, it's it's it's just a lot Of everything going on at once. And um You know, yeah, it was tough. Um

1:06:06 We got married, um literally The same year we got married, we we had our son. Um so it was like boom boom, get married, have a kid. all while you know, I'm also trying to like manage growing this business and there was just a lot of a lot of challenges and and you know I think You know, I definitely made some mistakes.

1:06:31 You know, it was it was tough, you know, it was tough trying to manage all that together. So, um this is happening in the background in the meantime. You guys are Growing and expanding. And then In twenty thirteen.

1:06:49 There's another Taco chain. Another taco. Restaurant. uh called the Texas Taco Company. And you start to see im like pictures on Instagram and on social media of of fans at their restaurant and it looks like

1:07:04 From your perspective. They're making the same exact things. They're they're literally copying your playbook. I should mention that the recipes are not copyrighted. It's not like a photograph or or a book or you know, or a patented invention like Unfortunately recipes just aren't

1:07:21 protected in the same way. But you guys decided to sue them for, I guess, copyright or some kind of infringement, trademark infringement. Tell me it Why you decided to do that. Well, we knew they It's stolen.

1:07:37 Our recipe book. So they have to Taco Bible that you used in your kitchens, right? Yeah. Like a brand Bible for your tacos. Yeah, exactly. With all the recipes and everything in it. And it was a trade secret. Yeah. Yeah. And so We had it on video. Um now the problem is by the time we got to court we had lost that video, but we had enough other Proof around you know their their menu

1:08:04 I mean every description was exactly the same. The only thing they changed were the names of the tacos. Um they were doing the same exact fried chicken taco and same exact stuff, you know, across the board. Um luckily They weren't executing it at all. So that that I think saved us, but definitely a moment of like holy shit, we got this great brand. We're doing these great things and like And they were franchising, right? Like they opened one store and like immediately started franchising. So And you guys were not franchising, you were opening opening all of your own locations and you continue to do that to this day.

1:08:47 Yep. They were franchising and you felt like oh this is a potential threat. This is a huge threat. They've got our food, they've got our recipes, like they could completely take over and we'd just be forgotten about in the wind and this is our stuff. And so yeah, we definitely went to the lawyers and the thing went on for about eighteen months, but we were able to get them to to close everything down. So thank goodness for that. All right. Twenty seventeen you guys announced that a a investment firm general and makes a significant investment which is I mean, it's a big deal. They they're looking at your business and thinking, Okay, we can really expand this. And now I imagine

1:09:31 By twenty seventeen you had ten or fifteen locations, I think. Oh no, we were we were at thirty five at that point. Oh wow, okay. And but with this deal, I imagine there was plans now to really expand this, like to turn this into a national, maybe even an international Business chain. Mm-hmm.

1:09:53 Um, yeah, and I think, you know, the the you know, two things we thought about. One was hey, look, we've been busting our butt. You know, we don't even know like what we're worth or or or not worth as a company. Um We didn't want to like step out. But it was also be nice to like take some chips off the table, like we've

1:10:15 You know, restaurant You never know, right? And we wanna if we're gonna grow like we want the best shot to like Do it right. And these guys have done this stuff before and so we started talking to some people about, you know, hey, what does What's a good way to accomplish two of those goals to

1:10:34 Take some chips off the table and um But then also to continue to like expand and work in the business and and and you know, not necessarily write it off and And what we came to is like, hey, if you you find the right private equity partnership that can that can work out really well. And so we went through a whole bidding process and and really landed on General Atlantic and they've been great to work with and Just down to earth. They get the business. They get investments and they had a great track record.

1:11:05 So you now I mean now that there's there's outside investors You know. Profession investors, I should say, involved. with your you and your original Team.

1:11:16 Uh there's a different set of pressures, right? And There's a board and it's twenty eighteen. And I I gather that uh that year the board essentially ask you asks you

1:11:32 to step aside. From what I understand they felt like you were not The right person to help scale the business. anymore and they brought in a quote unquote professional who had been the CEO of California Pizza Kitchen He was an executive of Texas Roadhouse, a guy named GJ Hart. Um

1:11:49 Were you okay? I mean clearly you h you did, you stepped down and you took on a different role, but Uh, were you okay with that decision? Were you relieved? Did you feel like I really don't want to do this? Or were you like, I can't believe they don't Trust me to do this. No, that ac actually the way that went down was um I was ready for a break.

1:12:10 Um and I think The the five of us We're kind of at this point of where We've done what we've done. We've done an amazing job, but like what if somebody professional came in that's done this before, that's grown a company you know, two, three, four hundred units that knows what that looks like.

1:12:33 What could they bring to the table that could add value? And it was really a group decision. And there wasn't really In this new phase, like it was gonna be hard for me or some of my other partners to s you know, one of us to sort of rise above Everyone else. And we also knew that like, hey, even though I was sort of running things, that like we were still very democratic in how we made decisions, you know. It wasn't like I was the boss of everyone. And so And now you couldn't do that anymore. Yeah, and we were getting bigger. We were getting bigger. We needed someone to kinda be a decision maker on stuff. And so we all agreed with um when they came in, um

1:13:15 And they had actually asked, like, is do one of you guys wanna be the CEO? And and we all kinda said no. And I was still in the business per se, but not I didn't want any more direct reports. I kinda wanted to take a step back and just Take a breath. All right, so you step down, but you stay on as the uh like a in a creative leadership capacity and um and the brand

1:13:41 starts to gr you know, the the the the company s continues to grow. And Um he Hart is also leading the business during Covid. Which is no question. Very challenging. Um

1:13:57 But manages to kind of steer it through. I mean I think by the time you know, sort of by the time it you know, within a couple of years, twenty twenty It hits. Over seventy locations. Uh so

1:14:11 So not a bad Yeah. But from what I've read You weren't happy with with how it was expanding. I mean I'm just looking at this objectively.

1:14:23 I think this CEO clearly did a good job. I mean he got it from forty five restaurants to ninety six restaurants and and did that. І нестів ковід So by any account a s a success. Yeah. But you were not happy with certain things. What what were you not happy about?

1:14:41 Well, I don't Uh I don't know that There was enough Thought

1:14:49 exact right markets to go into and why. I think it was a little more grow To grow versus Are we growing the right way? In the right place.

1:15:03 And uh You know, and then I also Just saw some of our our branding changing and just You know

1:15:13 getting a little too corporate for what I felt comfortable with and You know, just They weren't bad things per se, but they were just You know, things that sometimes if you're not

1:15:25 Um you know, vocal enough about that like can start You know, start to Water a business down, if you will. Yeah.

1:15:34 um Hart eventually just decide to retire. Yeah. Um in twenty twenty one. And You came back as CEO. Um

1:15:45 Did you Is that something that you wanted to do? You said I I think I I gotta come back in. I did. and and and and bring us back to the core, the heart of what we are. Yep. Yep, I definitely did. When you say went to corporate, I mean

1:15:59 What do you mean? Like I mean the quality was was affected, the the restaurants didn't feel like Like they were welcoming. What do you mean by that? Yeah, just some of the the we'd lost some of the edge to our culture. They revised the logo, um which I didn't really love. Um you know, so we've kinda dialed that back, you know, back to more of our original logo and how it looks. Um the restaurant started to get

1:16:30 Away from our core. You know what I mean? Like we're a cool local taco shop, right? Like that doesn't look like five thousand square feet. That looks more like three thousand square feet. Like cool funky Graffiti on the walls, um not this big kind of massive dining room and everything else. When you um Came back as CEO, you you got rid of or you closed down a couple of restaurants, including two in Wichita, Kansas.

1:17:01 And you laid off sixty five employees. Headquarters. Yeah. W was that uh did you feel like There were just too many people, they'd overhired, or or was it more of a quality

1:17:13 Thing. We were definitely over we just had way too much head count for what we needed, you know, and I remember kinda looking At the You know

1:17:25 It the business kinda going like what are all these people doing? Yeah and Uh just And uh just spending a lot of money that like we didn't have really to be spending, um, even at that point, even being as big as we were. Um and um it just it was time to like get back and focus on what do we do? We we serve damn good food. We give damn good hospitality and we run damn good shifts, right? Like what's the core part of our business um that Got us to the dance. So

1:18:02 really took a step back and really focused back in on, you know, our operations and like now if we go open a new restaurant I always make sure there's at least one internal hire that's a manager in that restaurant. And versus just everyone being new from outside. You you guys are in sixteen states right now. Tell me about what the plan is. I mean You know, I remember interviewing the founder of Five Guys many years ago on the show and

1:18:31 I know they've got thousands of locations around the world and they're in Paris and my children. eight there when we were in Paris. I'm like, Guys, we're in Paris, you're going to five guys. They're like, We ordered it. We ordered it in French. Um Uh What is the plan? For Torchies, like are you looking at a future where you've got Thousands of locations. Not only in at all forty eight, maybe fifty US states, but uh but abroad overseas.

1:18:57 I mean immediately I think we'd like to be a national brand in most, if not all, fifty states. International that's probably above my pay grade at this point. Um but definitely Definitely nationally. Um, we definitely want to expand more up and down the east and west coast for sure. You step down um from your second stint as CEO. in early twenty twenty five.

1:19:20 And now you are What's your role in the company? Uh, Chief Innovation Officer. So my whole thing that I'm focused on now is on a lot of innovation and kind of restaurant excellence, if you will. So really focusing in on New food, new items. Um the restaurant has gotten very competitive. So I think to win these days you've gotta be

1:19:50 Bringing out new products, bringing out new stuff. Um And also Just really looking um back in at our operations and our our kitchens and hey, can we be more efficient? Can we be faster? What can we do to improve our operations and you know kind of Really dialing that in as we kinda get

1:20:13 Ready for our next phase of growth. Yeah, Mike, I'm curious. I mean as you As you reflect on On on just your story. You become a very successful entrepreneur like that was not.

1:20:27 gonna be your life story. No. Strung out. In jail, dead. Yeah. Like any of those things. Yeah. It's kind of amazing, actually.

1:20:39 It is. It is. I think And it's funny, you know, I've I've been asked that before, like, hey, do you really celebrate your success? And you know, I think You know, one of the advantages and disadvantages of I think being successful and being an entrepreneur is, you know, sometimes you don't take the time to sort of celebrate your wins.

1:21:02 'Cause you're just focused on sort of the next thing in front of you. But there are moments where Like I got nominated um an award at my Culinary school for like a legacie award and I remember receiving that up in Providence and just broke down in tears.

1:21:24 Because I just I hadn't really given my chan myself a chance to like Hey man, look what you have done. Like this is an incredible story and and you know, look at all the opportunities you've created for people and and what you've been able to do and what you've been able to overcome, like Sometimes it's hard to Take a step back and sort of reflect on that.

1:21:49 When you think about About the the what happened to you. Where you started and where you are now. Your We're roughly the same age, or just, you know, fifty ish. Yeah.

1:22:00 And uh I mean You did not grow up with a lot of money, you've got You've made a lot of money, you've Built a growing business that is just gonna get bigger. I'm sure if I see you in ten years, Torchi's gonna be much bigger.

1:22:14 How much of of of this do you attribute to the work you put in the grind and how much do you think has to do with Just luck and fate. You know, probably Seventy five percent. work and ethic and doing the right things for the right reasons and twenty five percent luck. I think anyone that says

1:22:34 There isn't a a little bit of luck that It's people to that level of success is is lying to themselves. I think, you know, the pumpkin patch story I talked to you about, right? That could have Put us out of business, right? But for some reason there was a damn pumpkin shortest that year. That kinda

1:22:52 got us to the next level that helped refill the coffers to make sure we had enough payroll to cover the next Two months of business, right? Like So there's little things I think like that that come up that help businesses along. Um, but then I also think that you're not set up. For that type of

1:23:13 Of luck. Without all the hard work. That goes into Setting you up for that, if that makes sense. That's Mike Ripka, founder of Torchies Tacos.

1:23:25 By the way, remember how Mike says he has a hard time celebrating his wins in business? Well, he has a pretty different attitude about his sobriety. Yep, I still still I haven't had a drink in Thirty-three years I just celebrated uh this month. Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app so you never miss a new episode of the show. And if you're interested in big ideas about business and entrepreneurship, sign up for my newsletter at guyaz.com or on Substack.

1:23:54 This episode was researched by Catherine Seifer and produced by Carla Esteves, with music composed by Ramtin Areblui. It was edited by Kevin Leahy. Our audio engineers were Patrick Murray and Gilly Moon. Our production staff also includes Casey Herman, JC Howard, Neva Grant, Alex Chung. Andrea Bruce, Sam Paulson, Elaine Coates, Nor Gill, and Carrie Thompson. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to how I built this.

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