Dina Asher-Smith: Why Britain's Fastest Woman Feels Unaware of Her Achievements (E435) Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/c2b42ce90d39cabf You are now. Britain's fastest woman. You're a world champion. You're an Olympic medalist. I love medals. Eight of them are gold. I'm still next to the real life girl, man. She's the most decorated European athlete in history. If you want to achieve greatness, it's going to hurt. And when you've only got 10 seconds to do your job, at any even a tenth of a second that's spent thinking about something else, you need to just be focused absolutely on what you're doing. 2022 was a crazy year in my life. It was horrid. I had to do so much psychological work coming into that because the pain to to let go, I was in so much emotional pain. And to let go of that emotional pain that I would have cried. But when you're racing you can't cry. Dean Russia Smith. Back on high performance. I am, hi. This time in person. Definitely. It was nice over Zoom. It's even better like this. Much better like this. That time in Zoom was a crazy time for everyone, so I'm really happy to be here in real life. Good. Well, this is also a crazy time for you once again, because you now have a place that no athlete in European championship history has ever occupied before, and we are surrounded by Your medals, they're all around us, here they are. There's about nine hundred million more medals at your house, your parents house, everywhere else where they live. But you are now. Britain's fastest woman. You're a world champion. You're an Olympic medalist. You're the Sunday time sportswoman of the year. twice in back to about years in twenty eighteen and again in twenty nineteen. And now After an extraordinary summer in Birmingham. You are the most decorated athlete ever. At the European championships. I love medals. Eight of them are gold. But I think what makes this a very interesting conversation is not Where you are now. It is How you've got to this point. And what the future looks like. thirty years old still competing, still at the very top. Ah. I've really enjoyed for the last few weeks when we knew we were desperate to have another conversation. looking at the kinds of things that you've been saying where You're saying there's very little left to prove, yet you still know that there's an Olympic medal. That is the kind of gold that you really want. So I think what I'd love to do today is understand what drives a champion. When proving yourself is no longer something that you need to do. Whether experience removes fear. Or creates a new kind of fear. And what you have to change when the next generation Start chasing you down. As we've seen over the last couple of weeks. Does that sound good? It sounds great. Should we go on this journey together? So much research. You know more about myself than I do. So great. Thanks. Um Interesting for me, when I started reading out the list of achievements, you start looking a bit shy and sheepish. Yeah, I just don't like think about the achievements very often. And even when people were doing the medal count for me throughout this season and over the last few years. I I until people were saying it to me and media or my teammates I didn't know. I don't know how many medals I've got. I just try my best each time. I don't I don't necessarily keep count. So it's been a really Eye opening period for me in the best and most fabulous way because I I think the reason why I've got to this point is because I'm so hyper focused on each individual race, each individual year. Yeah. And even though I've had a lot of great stuff before I do understand that every time you step on the line it's a blank sheet of paper. And you always have to give your best shot. Like every time you go into training, you've got to try your hardest because Um, that's just the way our sport is. So I think that's for better or worse. I just never think about What's happened in the past. So With that in mind, when other people are being wiser than me sometimes and taking a step back and they're proud of me for a long period of time, it I actually had to rejig my mind because I just never look at myself like that. I just stay hyper focused in the moment. So people were like saying it last week and I was like, Yeah, okay, yeah, like Eleven, eight. It's great. But I want this one now, and I want this one now. And um It was only I think last week that I started to be like, you know what, all these people might be right. Like it's actually quite cool. So I should be a bit I should be proud of it. I should be happy. So that's probably why I'm still getting used to these things and celebrating them, because I'm always trying to be better. Uh Also gotta give your achievements time to breathe. But this is where like the mind of a high performer is so fascinating to me,'cause you didn't say there I am proud. I am happy. You said I should be proud. Yeah. I should be happy. Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting. I didn't notice that. I mean I am. I I guess. I guess I don't know. I just always want to be better, and I think it's because I know that I have. more inside me and even though I've won all those medals, I remember like It was so funny. I was doing T V last week and I laid them all out and it was so funny because they were so happy what was there and they're right. Like you guys are all right in this situation, by the way. But all I can see is okay. Two th my first one was twenty sixteen. Twenty two thousand and fourteen, I was there, but I got hurt, probably could have meddled. Twenty twenty-two, but did not have the most fabulous one, was not well during that championships, didn't realise, could have got more there, could have got more this time. Hopefully I'm gonna get more next time, but then I'm like, Oh LA, the schedule will, how many events will I be able to do? So all I see is like Gaps. Really? Yeah. So like sometimes I'm just like Could have been more. But is that not the reason? Why you've won so much. I think so. It's not necessarily healthy. It's not something I'd advise kids to do or go to a primary school and have that mindset. But I think that's probably why we're at this number. Yeah. Am I right in thinking that when you were little, Dame Kelly Holmes was your picture of yourself covered in medals, is that right? Yeah, just one. Like when I was at school I just Well, I think when I was in that formative physical would you want to be? I remember I was watching the Olympic Games in Athens and I just thought she was so incredible. Like I love that. I'm I've the His degree Buried into history. So I saw the wreath on her head. She looked like a Grecian goddess princess. And I've always been into fashion anyway. So I was totally loving it. And I was like, yep. That is what I want to do. I wanna be that kind of person And so um yeah, I drew that picture. I'm very happy to have chased it, yeah. And I wonder whether that little girl would understand why your Happy with what you've done, but still not satisfied. Yeah, I think so. She'll be just mind blown. She'll be like, Can't believe we did it, mate. So I think this is more me because I think the m I've already achieved all the dreams that I wanted to anyway. Like even when I became a professional athlete. Like it's very hard to even be somebody who can make a career out of this, somebody who can show up ten, fifteen years After they get sponsored at first, and also somebody who is in the zero point zero one percent of an already really tough sport. Like I'm well aware that I'm already living an incredible dream, but I just think whilst you're doing that, you might as well go all the way and you might as well absolutely maximize your capacity and maximise your talent. And I'm aware that I just, in my opinion and in the opinion of the people I work with, and the scientists and everybody that I've still got like. a lot of capacity and a lot of topside to kinda chase. So If I'm not hitting it, I'm trying to figure out how I get there. So how quickly after A final, a medal, a success, a good meet. Are you immediately thinking about what's next? Immediately. It's not great. Yeah, immediately. How immediate immediately. Like as soon as I'm Even if I'm in the mix zone. So if you're on the track still in your own. Yeah,'cause I'm thinking it's if you're mid championships and we have four events, I'm thinking, Okay, media's great, but if I want to start the two hundred in the way that I need to run it, I need to be recovered. So I need to get a massage, I need to eat a meal, I need to be an iceberg, I need to be in bed in about Two hours. And if these interviews go on forever, I get a lot of reach, but it's eased into my recovery and the two hundred might feel a bit sticky. So um, but I'm just one of those people, like I'm always just moving and thinking. So But Non elite. Athletes. might look at dissatisfaction and think it's a negative. And I actually think we can have a really interesting conversation here about dissatisfaction being one of the most powerful things in your army. Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's it. Because it doesn't mean that when you're dissatisfied, it's not an indictment of your self esteem, your self worth, or your self confidence. It's just like yeah, I'm where I am at because I'm good at this, but that doesn't mean that I can't do better. And I wouldn't necessarily say that I'm dissatisfied, it's just that You can be fine. And happy. With what's going on, but you can still want to achieve more and I think that's absolutely fine. And What's the reason for needing more, do you think? I don't need more. It's just I just think you might as well. 'Cause a lot of people are just content, right? And they go, Do you know what? I had a good day at work, I walked the dog I ate a biscuit before dinner and I might go on holiday in a few weeks, and that's enough. That's me with ninety five percent of things in the world. But not with your athletics. I think with certain things in my track. Like there were just certain things that I think When you're in a certain category of athlete and you very kindly read out these like accolades, I might as well fill the gaps, you know what I mean? You know I just while you're here and you has have the chance to do stuff that your younger self would have never thought you could actually do, I just think you might as well go all the way. Especially if your body wants to and you've got the people around you, just might as well go for it. And if you get it, congratulations. If you don't, you tried. But I just think you have to, like, while you can, just absolutely try your best. So that's probably why I just keep going. I think it's a powerful and brilliant mindset. Have you seen the new Pep Guardiola documentary? Absolutely not. I know I don't watch sports stuff, can you imagine? It's really good. I know, no, but it's not I need to Increase my culture on that size. 'Cause they've I mean the access is incredible. You know, normally these documentaries, they're kinda sanitised and they just show you the bits they want to show. Absolutely. I'm the person that sanitizes it. So this is everything. And there's a moment where he's standing up in front of the players. And he's visibly emotional. And he goes guys. I am divorced from the most beautiful woman in the world. I Because I s I love her. He goes, I still love her with all my heart and she loves me with all my heart. But we lost one thing, the passion. Guys, we lost the passion. And all I'm asking you to do is live With passion. You've got to have passion at the center of what you're doing. If you don't have passion, you don't have anything. We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners. And hearing you even just talk now, I'm like that's You found something that I think is so special but so integral to being a human being, which is to have a real passion for something. And sometimes I'm so sad when I speak to people and I'm like, God, you You haven't found what you're passionate about. Yeah, I think it is like That was a beautiful thing that he said, by the way. You might make me want to watch it. I should. Yeah, I think A passion is something that just lights a fire inside you because I just love racing. Even if it doesn't go my way, I j I just feel like each performance is a jigsaw puzzle because when you get into it and you're in The company of some of the best athletes in the world, you know that some people are having a great year, some people aren't. Some people are having just the jigsaw puzzle isn't coming together. And it's not that they don't have the capacity or they don't know how to do it or they're not They're definitely they execute, they know how to perform under pressure. It's just a jigsaw puzzle of all these different elements. And I don't know, I just find it fascinating just to pull all these things together. And um, maybe that's the passion, it's the journey, it's the adrenaline rush when you stand on the line and even if you haven't had a great season, it's like is this gonna go well? Well We're about to see Or even if I'm running the mixed relay and I see somebody who's one of the fastest men in the world just hurtling at me, it's like, Am I gonna get trampled? Hey, we're gonna find out at the same time as the nation, like do you know what I mean? So have you got that freedom now? Because I imagine a young athlete you're tired, you're restricted. There's a lot of fear in what you're about to do. Have you lost that I don't think I have that. Really? I don't think I ever really had that. Like I've definitely had different levels of kind of running into the unknown, but I don't think I was ever fearful. I just think I'm grateful to know that like you're running in a straight line, like you're very blessed. There is lots of not to get morose. But like people Some people that are watching this at home, they have really tough jobs. They're doctors, they're lawyers, they're firefighters. Like some people actually run into danger and try and save people's lives every day. Like the most pressing thing in your life is how fast you get from A to B. So there's already a bare minimum on how bad a bad day is. And um I think I'm very comfortable knowing that what I do is a blessing. what I do I'm very fortunate to do what I do, and very fortunate to be able to Prioritized. how I chop a few tenths of a second or a hundredths of a second off a time to like cross the finish line just in front of somebody else. And I think I just sit in that joy, but at the same time run directly into the fire. Like I'm somebody that if you want to give me like a challenging task, I'll be like, Okay. Sounds good. Do you know how to do it? Nope. But we're gonna just figure it out as we go along. So um yeah, but I think that The reason why I'm not scared, I don't think there's anything to be scared of. Like nobody's dying. I'm not making a life or death decision. Like if I say the wrong thing, an economy or a Fortune five hundred country company is not about to crash. Like it just means that I need to either train a bit harder, get a bit stronger, or not make the same mistake that I made last time. So would would you take us into what's going on in your head on Competition day. Let's go back to Birmingham just a short amount of time ago. Is there a moment where you go into the zone and maybe lose a bit of this freedom, or the way that you're talking now, the way you're thinking like Are you like this all the way through to the moment that you go down on the blocks? Um Yeah,'cause I think I always perform better when I'm not overthinking. So sometimes I'm just better making sure that my lip gloss is nice. And yeah. I think that's great. It could be a throw away comment, but actually that is that tells us a lot. Well, I spend all my time micro analysing how to get there, but I think you get to the point when you're at race day, or at least in the summer season, when you need to release control. The more you overthink it and over process it while you're doing it, the slower you're going to run. Have you experienced that before? Absolutely, all the time. it takes a a lot of practice and control to take a step back and not overthink it. So I always run best when I'm kinda like Just I mean just in it. And I'm just kind of flowing with it and I'm not overthinking each element. Yeah, I've got certain things that I might need to remember. But only one or two things. But um some people can really overthink or over think it's the wrong word, but every personality is different. They can really process each section. I don't work best like that. I just work best when I run free. I'm just thinking about getting through the line first, getting through the line well or strong or relaxed or anything. And then um Just remaining in the moment rather than watching the moment in your head, if that makes sense. Yeah. Explain that for me. So like I'm better just I feel like if you overthink something, you're kind of almost like you're watching a T V of yourself do it and you're trying to make sure that you do what's on that T V, but I prefer to just be in the T V. If that's making sense. I prefer to just be in the moment. And I've always I think most people. in our sport perform best like that, but I think For some people like me, it takes a bit of work to get to that place. And what about the motivation to keep on taking yourself to that place?'Cause I was watching the telly, funnily enough, after Birmingham and you were like, Look Your exact words were I don't really have much to prove. And I think that At this point you're really Like you're seeing What you can maximise from your Body. And you're trying to have as much fun as possible while doing it. And I think that is very interesting to me because so many athletes are fueled by something external. By proving themselves to the world, by pleasing their coach, by pleasing their parents, by doing something that brings external validation. I kinda don't I don't see that from you and I and that makes me wonder what is your fuel at this point in your career. I just think that I have some things that I can do. I'm not gonna I'm not somebody to throw out my personal targets because then BBC G in a sense I'm not nah, we're not I'm not that kind of athlete. But um I just think that there is one thing on your C V that we'll know I'd love Olympic guns. Even if I got a run of four hundred guys with I mean not a flat four, but like four by four, God forbid. You'll see me crawl over that line. But I'm like, let's just try and get that for myself, because that would be nice. If I don't get it, I've still had a great career. It's all good. But um there are just some things that I think like when I look at my numbers, like I could do, I could achieve and for what Reason. Just I don't want to swear, I'm just like Might as well. Just to say Um Yeah, like I did that and I ran that time and I did this, I did that, but I used to be fueled by I guess chasing medals, chasing titles, but when you've kinda done that, it's like great. And what else motivates you? And I just think on my times I have some upside. So I'd like to chase that. And I also just want to have loads of fun. I just want to step on the line and be free and really enjoy the crowd, enjoy the atmosphere. And just have fun because I don't think that's a privilege that's everybody always has during their careers, whether that's sport or whether that's anything else. So um Yeah. You remind me of Keely, you know, in that respect. She's fab. I love Keeley. She is, but she's also one of the very, very few athletes who I've interviewed in this setting. And like you, they've prioritised, I just want to have fun. Yeah. And you can see on your on your socials, the way that you are around the track, the way you are with other athletes, the way she is as well. It's about Bringing fun into it. I suppose I wonder whether bringing allowing yourself to have fun. Is liberating or scary? Or whether it starts out being scary when you first I think it is a bit It's a bit about rel relinquishing control. I think. Because sometimes it depends where you are in your career. Depends every performance, they're all like little logic puzzles, in my opinion. They're all achieved differently. Say you've been hurt. And as a sprinter, you know, hey, if I've had a hamstring injury, my biomechanics needs to be perfect. Otherwise that hamstring is gonna go bue-bye on international TV. So there are times that you really need to be locked in for whatever reason or the other. But when everything's been flowing and you're in a good mental space and You feel fabulous. You might as well have fun because those memes moments can be few and far between. And when you're in good shape or when you're winning medals, you don't know how long that's gonna last for. And um I think you should just enjoy it and soak it up. But I think for me that perspective came through a lot of experience as well. privilege of talking to athletes that are competitors and now I'm fortunate enough to call people that you know, you WhatsApp and the ladies that race me when they're older and they just look back and they're like, Yeah, like I won the Olympic Games, I won this, I won however many goals at world champs, but like I was having a really tough time. I wish I'd smiled. I wish in that moment I just soaked it up and been proud of my achievements because all the pictures I see of myself, I could just see in my eyes I wasn't happy. And um when you hear people that of you regard as your icons and your heroes talk like that. Like yeah. And we just listen to them and just Enjoy. I'm so pleased you've found this during your career. We interviewed Fernando Valons, the two time Formula One world champion. The day he became a former non world champion because all he was thinking about was What's next? How do I defend it? How do I become a two time world champion, not a one time world champion? After two he wants three and I Yeah, that's uh It's rare that an athlete finds this in the No, I was gonna say he's saying that. I'm like, Yeah, he's absolutely right because sometimes I think that's also the internal nature of sport, though, because as soon as you get one thing, people are moving on to the next. People always wanna say, even if it's good, ooh, but the next one, ooh, but the next time, ooh, but the next Olympics, ooh, and it's like Hey, I just achieved one of the greatest things ever. Let's just be happy for five minutes and then we can start to process. But that's something that I also need to learn myself. You still struggle with that? Not struggle, but I'm just somebody who always I'm very uh in a good way of self critical. So even if there's a good race, I'm like mm, could have been better. Mm could have been smoother through this phase. Mm, could have taken the bend differently. Can we talk about the form that that takes then, because all this conversation so far has been really lovely and it's been smiley and happy and it's been about freedom and joy. Yeah. Not having to prove anything and Getting to a place in your career where you are still fast. But you also have clarity of thought because you're experienced enough. But there is also that moment where you need to go right. Now I need to be the best I can be. So what form does your self analysis take after a race. Breaking down what could have been. Oh, I've got really incredible scientists that like will literally send me a full page document on where I could have done better, even if I win. Oh w I uh yeah, yeah, yeah. Like even if we're in a relay team, like Even if we've won the race, we'll still get a page full of our numbers and like red, green, red, green, even if we've broken a British record. What sort of data were they getting there then? Everything. So absolutely everything. Everything. There was even a race when I think I might have clipped my toe and my biomec was like, Yeah, on step five, you missed that. I was like, How did you see that? I didn't even know I did that. And he was like Known you since you're 17. And that's from them watching it, have you got to be able to do it. They've got cameras. Sometimes it's a one page report, or sometimes even if you've been had cameras on your training, you're getting a three, four page report with visuals and graphs and writing and like obviously I know how I feel. So as you get older and more experienced and more knowledge, they will also have conversations with you to feedback and'cause even they might have numbers, but and they might think something's slower, but it might have paid off later down the track. So you know, it's a dialogue. But um no, I know you can do better because somebody will literally tell you very Soon after like Could have done better. And do you love that? information. I love it. Like what you like I did my best to I love it. I I think it's fascinating. I think like it's an incredible thing about the human body because I do believe that we're continuously seeing how far we can go. And even think when you think you can do better. And that might be what you have in yourself right now. It doesn't mean that that's the maximum you've got in yourself next year or the year after or across your whole career. So I think it's fascinating. It's just like keep learning. So and that's the physical stuff. The mental stuff is also fascinating because we've seen at at Birmingham the kind of She's been on the scene a while, but the real emergence of Amy Hunt. Oh, she's phenomenal, yeah. Beat you over a hundred metres this year. And too. Beat you to the European two hundred metre title as well. On four goals in Birmingham. Then stands next to you and again I was watching on the telly as I am and she goes, Oh, I'm here with the goat. Right. I wonder how You kind of balance this idea of mentoring and working and as you say, Oh, she's great, loving someone else's success. But at the same time, being absolutely single minded in your determination that you want to be I think it comes very naturally because we kind of since we've been Really young We've in this sport you've always had the individual and you have the team. So there's a time to be All on you, and there's a time to be together. And you understand there's only so far you can ever go all on you because twenty minutes later or two days later. you're a team. So I think I think sometimes people look at look from the outside and normally you're used to seeing individual sports or team sports I guess I don't know if women and ones like it'cause they still compete. It's just points when they come together, right? Formula One. Yeah. No, the first person you want to beat is your teammate. Oh my hush. So'cause they're in the same car, basically. So the only the only direct comparison is if someone's got exactly the same raw materials as you. So the first if the F one driver The first person they need to be is their teammate. The worst thing is to be beaten by your teammate. Because that's the true comparison. And that's the injury is but that's the interesting thing about Formula One is like And for us it's like if there's more of us doing well, when we come together, we can I'm like we can get these Americans. That's where all of that you know what I mean? It's like So yeah, obviously you wanna be the best always. But it's not a bad thing that you've got three, four, and particularly when the British ladies are five, six, seven girls running fast. That is not a bad thing. As long as you're all on the same page when it comes to your team events, like that is not a bad thing. And if the men are on your fast as well. That's great, because we also do events together. So everyone lifts everyone else. In my opinion, yes. Then there's the moment where you want to beat that. So how what's the switch like in your head right now? Uh it's just very natural. It's like I mean it's Yeah, I wanna run I wanna be the fastest. I wanna win the race. But at the same time I don't know, I think that's a very good I think I see it as natural, so I don't even know how to describe it. There's just a time and a place for everything. If that makes sense. But I think it's something that's very natural in our sport. So even when you were Take for example Darrell. I've been racing Darryl since we were fifteen, maybe even younger, like eleven. So we'd have individual races and then when we were even at school level representing the south east of England or England, you line up in your England kit next to each other, and then an hour later you've got a relay and we've got to beat Scotland. So I think it's just always this kind of a balancing between that And I remember When I sp when we were really young and we got the opportunity to speak to people that have done more than us. I remember Michael Johnson, one of the first things he said to me when I was younger, he was like, You can't take your rivalries too seriously. He was like, This is beyond sport. He was like when it's all said and done, it's qu can be quite challenging to move from the world of athlete to non athlete. And when it comes down to it, there's only gonna be a very small amount of you across the world that knows what it's like to stand on the world championship final start line in front of eighty thousand people who are screaming and you can't hear any you can't hear anything and then you hear nothing and you can hear a pin drop and you have to have the moment of your lives. Like there are not many people in the world that get this experience that understand what you go through being away from home, all the sacrifices, the hard work and the intensity. So yeah, for this period of your life you raise each other and then you come into a team. But this is only a fraction of your life and for the rest of your life these are people that If you do well, you're gonna see them every week, mate. You're gonna be on TV together, you're gonna be at award shows together, because hopefully you would have created a legacy. And I think that's the mindset that I've always had because that's a talk that when I was in the futures, um pathway of British athletics. That's exactly what we were told from the beginning. And I think that's probably why we've had such a good era of relay running as well, because that was the tone that we started with. Yes. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And I think my first senior relay coach also said as a nation of British athletes, you have such an incredible opportunity as the relay. And I know I can't keep going on about it, but this was how I was introduced to the senior. Like I my first senior best and my first senior medal was a relay medal in 2013 in Moscow when I was seventeen. And um, yeah, you can run the individual, yeah, you can do well. But at that time we had an American coach who was like, Don't forget your medal counts and don't forget that. As a nation that has a lot of good sprinters, you can Always. Like Do incredible things. as a team. And not every country has the privilege of that. 'Cause they might only have one or two fast people. You know, you need four. So I don't know, I talked a lot, but um I just think we've you know, it's just it's part of our sport. Yeah you have to be able to go So you need them But then you need to beat them. Exactly. And it's the same for absolutely everybody on that track. And that you always hear athletes that are from the smaller nations, they're like, Oh, I wish I had a relay team. That looks at Amy and just goes, Not now, because I really do want that gold in the U.S. Not at all. Really? Not at all. I don't work like that. I don't work like that. I think everybody has a season, everybody has a time. Like I think I have a lot of upside, so I'm not really that's Not really where my mindset is. I'm just Honestly Even in messages that I've been talking to at Mani everything, how can we push forward as a unit? How can we push forward as a unit. So you'll still share everything you know? With everyone I'm out with all those up. Yeah, but we have some of the scientists. I mean, maybe not necessarily individual like info, but when it comes to like the real relays and how we can work best when we've got changes'cause we all need to interact and be within that twenty metre zone very quickly and minimise that time. I'm getting really tech technical. We have to understand how each other accelerates, where they accelerate best, and how I can give people enough space to be their best self. So you do have to understand your competitors as well. If that's making sense. Like we really have an event that's together. Like I think it's cool. Do you have to commute you know what I mean? Yeah, and it's there. It doesn't it doesn't happen. Not in not all countries get any in well even in other sports. No. So I think or even I think the four by four is the best example because they really get Well from what I've seen They really get along because it's such a grueling event, like with the pain, again, couldn't be me, but if I have to, it is what it is. Then you'll do it. But um and then they come together, but because I think it's them against pain. They're really united. Yeah. Like they just feel like they're in Gladiator or something, like lining up. Against pain. So yeah, it's an interesting environment internally. Can we talk about um what you do when things aren't perfect for you. Yeah. Because you create this like performance bubble, right? Then life doesn't always go perfectly, so maybe the start's bad. Or maybe someone unexpectedly comes past you and in the middle of the event you're thinking, What the how does that happen? or your body doesn't quite your body doesn't quite feel right or the plan that you've created with your coaches disappears out the window. We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners. What's the kind of mental process that stops one unexpected or unfortunate moment from becoming panic. Oh, I think it's just a bit of uh self confidence, self worth, understanding that Even if things don't go right in one moment, it's not it's not an indictment on who you are or your capacity of your quality of athlete. It means in that moment this did not go right. And as long as you completely understand why that happened, how to prevent it, and make sure it doesn't happen next time. There's no reason to get too bogged out, just fix it and move on. Um Yeah, just And this is the speed at which your events happen. Do you have the opportunity for clarity of thought during the events? Uh I try not to try and just I this is what I mean, but I do better when I'm not overthinking. If I'm too hyperaware, I think sometimes you spend more time thinking than you do doing. And when you've only got ten seconds or twenty twenty-two, twenty-one seconds to do your job by any even a tenth of a second that's spent thinking about something else. You need to just be focused absolutely on what you're doing. And you've got Hours, days, years to analyze it afterwards. Just not in the ten seconds that you're doing it. Yeah. 'Cause that's the ridiculous thing about your world is Let's say you run in a heater, semi final and then a final, that's thirty seconds of work. Yeah. And it's been years in To get to those thirty seconds in which you're being judged. So You have you managed to remove Your self worth from From these medals or from the results from the performances. And how have you done? I just think I've always had lots of people around me that care about me as a person. I think I've never really been too tied to my achievements. And I think also growing up in the sport and understanding I've been very fortunate to have a lot of competitors that have turned friends, particularly as they start to retire, which also as you get older, you turn up and you're like, Oh my gosh, all my mates are like Good luck. Does that sharpen your mind? Not really. Sorry, I went on a tangent, but I mean not really. I think it's I think it's just I think it's also important to just remember as an athlete what we do is an honour and a privilege. But like you're like as a human being, whether you win or lose this race, like keep it pushing. Like you're s as long as you're a good person, a nice person, you treat people well, you treat people with respect. Like it's not an indictment on your personality. Um Try your best, but you Don't have to, you know. I take more self worth from Nice. And good. Yeah. I think that's more normal. But you arrive for training. You in Texas, it's never cool. But it's really hot. And your coach says this is what we're doing today, what is the training session that makes you go, Oh my day we is it really that? What's the one you dread? Um Excellent question. I think what those sessions are in a cold climate and a hot climate has completely changed. So like This time three weeks ago, I was training in Texas and every day well my weather report, I was screen shotting it and sending it to everybody, like, look at me, I'm tired. Pray for me. It was like thirty eight, forty one, forty, thirty nine. Like that was the temperature from like uh the hottest part of the day is like two PM and it's it was just it was stuff that like you shouldn't be outside. Like Apple was giving you a heat advisory. We're getting those little buzzes, like do you know what I mean? Like we shouldn't be outside. But here we are. And running. And I think anything that They're all bad in that weather. They're all bad. I think If you're doing blocks, because you've got to pay attention, you can obviously know when your body's trying really hard to self regulate. And there's not much shade. There might be a bit of a breeze, but it's coming from Arizona, so the breeze is hot. So it's like you're opening an oven as opposed to a sea breeze. And um If you've got anything you've got to concentrate or touch the ground, you're gonna get you're gonna get burns. it's really hard to concentrate when it's that hot. So your attention you really need mentally to be fresh. Whether you got ice towels, ice vests. Ice coolers, ice, any kind of ice. You try that. But then obviously if you have to run around and around, you're probably more likely to vomit when it gets to that temperature. Look at me just talking like this is normal because your body is just struggling to like self-regulate and keep you in the room. You gotta make sure that you've hydrated, but not over hydrated. Uh,'cause you don't want to cramp, because if you cramp, your day's done. If you vomit, your day's pretty much done. Like you can run after it, but you're likely to get injured because you've lost all your nutrients. So I think when I'm in that climate, it's just about making sure that I can train and I can focus. That is the most challenging thing. Everything's hard. That see that now that's not normal. That's what that's when I have to check with people. I'm just like, Yeah, that's just terri that just comes with it. That's fine. And then people go, hm. I think I think when you're talking about not throwing up, you hear that a lot from maths, when you're saying Oh I hope you don't pass out. Yeah, you didn't pass out. I mean that can't be a regular part of No, that's the weather's not always like that. That's like really rough times. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't passed out. But you felt Absolutely, it's time to go inside. Or like when you're doing something simple and it's a lot tougher. And then you go inside, you're like, Oh yeah, it was way too hot. So what gets you through those moments? I just try not think about it. That's not possible. Is. Look at me. I'm It is. Um I've got I'm very fortunate to have lots of great staff that have my health and well being as their priority, she says in 41 degrees. But um so I know my s my coach will cut the session if it's getting a bit too spicy. And um I'm just trying to hit the times. I'm trying to execute I know. I'm trying to just examine it as well as I can. And it starts to hurt that we'll join to another set or 'Cause your brain just says do you know what's going on. I think I've been doing it. This is when I say I've got to check that I'm in the room making sense with people,'cause I think for me, I've been doing this a long time. I think my I really don't mind about pain. I think I've got over pain like when I was like twenty, twenty one. Cause if you're doing this job and you wanna be the best in the world at this, it's going to hurt. And I think that's just something you have to get over very quickly, otherwise you're not gonna be very successful. Like Even all the rape people you see running races, like Key running her eight, people running a marathon, people running a mile, like it hurts. Like People don't get to these insane performances without a bit of pain. I'm not advocating for that. It's not healthy. Kids, please don't follow that example. But I think if you want to achieve greatness, in these physical exertion sports, like where you really are testing your max every single time. It's going to hurt. Increasing that max is going to hurt. These races sometimes when you're eight races deep in a championship it's going to hurt. And I think you just have to get used to it. And so Just ignore it, just get over it. Like it's just it's like though it's like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday it hurts, okay, like It's like that great military phrase everybody wants to eat few people are prepared to have it. Exactly. I yeah, I just think It's just part of the job. It's like you wanna be elite at this, it's not gonna be it's not I mean not in a nice and icy sport. This is not and I mean that from a physically. It does hurt. Like you will be times when you're like Yeah. And uh really You're rewarded for discomfort in many ways. 'cause getting yourself to those places is really where the growth Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Like Some days you don't have to be in pain to grow. Yeah. I would like to say that before the parents are like, this isn't great. But um yeah, the normally you tend to find yourself increasing your maximum and increasing what you can do when you're in that moment where you think possibly I can't possibly finish this rep. I can't possibly do another rep and then you do. And not only do you, but it's great. And then you're like, oh, that was fine. And then next time you know, okay, I thought I could do five, but I can do six. I'm not saying you need to always push, but There may be if you know you can do six, then they can be better quality and they can be sharper and they can be more biometanic mechanically correct. You can really charge through the line, like There are these tweaks that you can do once you realize that Yeah, okay. I can I can dance in this arena. I didn't think I could But I can. And we need to move forward. Yeah. I think it's important for people to hear this because They see the medals, they see the victory celebrations, you know, they see the success, but this is the cost. This is the cost of that success. It it it definitely hurts. You You taught yourself or you've learned or you've developed the skills to cope with that kind of a problem. Forget about it,'cause you know, everybody's in the same boat. I think being in a training group helps,'cause everybody's in pain. Yeah. Then it's just like why would I mean about the pain? Everybody feels everybody's on the floor. Everybody's scrambling for ice and water. Everybody's in the same boat, you know? Can I can I talk about Yeah, you definitely did. Yeah, but the check that making sense'cause I know it's not normal. Two things can be true at the same time. Exactly. Everybody's trying to survive, you know. It's not I wanna talk about A tough moment. that no matter how much sprinting you do or how much methods mindset you develop it's It's not gonna prepare you to deal with it. If you want me to talk about it, I wanted to talk about Sicily and your Oh my grandma's death. Yeah, that was Twenty twenty two was w a crazy year in my life. It was horrid. Yeah. What was your fondest memory of her? I've got so many emotional. I've got so many. I think that I'll be here all day if I was gonna talk about the fabulous things. Like even my handwriting reminds me of her because she's the one that literally taught me how to write. She was very one of those very typical Caribbean women that's like, you know, was always matching, was always looking chic, always had a nice little hat on, and was always like grace and dignity. Like you will never lose your elegance, your grace and your dignity. So that's how I was brought up. And even like she had this beautiful cursive handwriting and I've got very similar handwriting, and that's because she would be looking over me like Right prettier than that. Right prettier than that. So I I have loads of fond memories, but I think the thing that I'm most grateful for. It's just she always instilled in me to hold my head up high. And just remember that um Yeah, and uh you know what it is just holding your head up high and always carrying yourself with grace and dignity. And whether you're having the best time or not such an easy time, and this um has definitely smooth the up and downs that I've had in my own sport. Just remember to keep kind keep going on. As long as you have your morals, your grace and your dignity, you're doing great. So just keep your he head held high and keep trying your best and you're gonna be good. Yeah. You've spoken. since the start of this conversation about Not overthinking things, about being in the moment, about not being outself, looking in, about being in flow. Were you able to do those? Absolutely not. No. That was psychologically the most challenging time in my life because I think to be able to do all these things and It goes for any time when you've got any kind of mental disturbance, if I'm making sense. So I count that as it was way more than a mental disturbance, but something that affects your mentality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't flow. you can't it's really hard to be outside your body. And I think with my grandma, I was particularly proud of the world championships in 2022 in Oregon. Okay, I didn't win, but it was an amazing series of races for me, probably the best series of races I've ever put together. And I'm I can definitely run faster, but At that time it was amazing and I had to do so much psychological work coming into that because the pain to to let go, I was in so much emotional pain. And to let go of that emotional pain that I would have cried. But when you're racing, you can't cry. So to be in that flow state where you're just in the moment and everything, the moment for me was very painful. And then my psychologist was who's phenomenal. She's a phenomenal psychologist. I always I'm always sending her Christmas presents, always Christmas handposts because I'm like, My career is so much better because of you. Whatever you need for the rest of your life, you're good. But um She was like sat down with me and she'd done a great job of kind of helping me kind of come through this. And she sat down before the World Championship. She's like, how much do you want this? I was like, would you mean? And she was like, look, I'm gonna be real with you. We're gonna have to really go through grief in like the next five days. So you can come out the other side and you can tap into your emotions because you run best when you're emotionally happy and vibrant and smiling and that's not authentic for you anymore. So we need to go into your deepest, darkest, most grieving thoughts. Like we're gonna talk every single day and we're gonna meet every single day. We're gonna go for walks, you're gonna cry, it's gonna be painful. And you I don't think you're She's right. I don't think you're ever gonna have to have a psychological push like this in your career again. But if you want to perform on the other side of it, we need to get you through that emotional phase of grief so you can unlock your emotions to perform. That was hard. And like when she said that to me and she was like, I don't know if you're ready, it's gonna be really hard. Like if you want a mediocre championships Fine. But I'm gonna ask you this because I know you don't want a mediocre championships. I like obviously I don't want a mediocre championships. She was like, Well, we're gonna do this. And that was a really challenging time for me. And I had to focus on really connecting, not only move through so many negative emotions in a very short space of time. And move through is the wrong word because you're always grieving, I think, when you lose somebody, but just get through that very raw phase. in some sort of protracted time frame that was for races, like that's that's not normal. That's Wild. Yeah. But she was like neurologically in your brain. As I said, she's very good at her job. She was like it's possible. From a neurological perspective. we're gonna move through that and you're not gonna be healed or happy or anything, but you are going to be able to engage with the emotions that takes you from 80% capacity to 110. And I was like, Well We got ten days. To the champs, like might as well do it. Like, what have I got to lose? And then I went and had one of the most focused and well executed championships of my life because I was in a position where I could feel and I could go back into the moment. Cause that whole season I did feel like I was watching myself compete because engaging with who I am and being smiley and being vibrant and just Standing on the line and being ready to roar and to fight. It just wasn't there because I was already fighting To like Yeah. So that was One of the hardest and um championships of my life, but I learned so much about myself. I learned so much about psychology as well, how powerful it is and how much it has the power to transform your performances. Like I really felt it. But um yeah, that was intense. That was a lot. That was a challenging ten days. Process. W as much as you could in that short time because lot of people actually listen to this podcast and reach out to us. Because they come to this for a bit of help when they're going through a tough time. And a lot of it does revolve around grief actually. People that just can't move forwards. Well, I think she said you're never g I think my mum was good with this but you're never gonna move forward. Yeah, you never I think with grief you never ever feel the same. I'm not my I feel like I grew up During that period before my grandma died as a child, now I'm an adult. That for me was the switch in life because she passed away from cancer. So it was a very challenging I saw it, I saw way too much. Saw way too much. So um it was I feel like I lost my childhood through that summer and through that period, or my somewhat naivety. And grief will never leave you, you just get better at dealing with it. So I was just hoping to be on the other side on a protracted time frame. And my uh she's done it for other things that have happened since in my career as well. Where she's like, if you really want to move through this and almost flush yourself out emotionally and neurologically, you need to say and talk about the most painful things that you need to go right. And we need to know. No beating around the bush. I don't have time for you to dance around the niceties. She's like I'm not gonna tell anybody, obviously it's confidential, just me and you. We'll go away from everybody. You need to cry, you need to feel all of it like And you're gonna be emotionally exhausted. Like we'll do the worst bits on your training days that, you know, they're not the big low training days. But she's like, I need you to go right for the pain. And you need to discuss it and we need to process it and I need to talk about it with you. I need to talk about how you feel, even any regrets that you have with her, more time you would have said the things you wish you would have said, anything that's lingering. We need to discuss it. It needs to be out on the table so I can help you work through this both emotionally and neurologically. And it's very tough'cause she's asking some very Very bare questions. What was the sort of question that opens you up the most and just like do you have any regrets? Do you think she would be proud of you? Do you no. Oh. Yeah. No, she was like we're going she's as I said, very good at her job. Not mentioning names, I don't want her to get poached by anyone. But these are my favorite. Always the competitive. Yeah, always, absolutely not. But um She was just like we're going through this. I don't want you to line up and have Any well, you will always have emotional baggage, but I want you to be as clear as possible. So you can stand on the line, you can feel You can connect emotionally you can connect to power and through the track, you can connect to the crowd. You can connect and open yourself up. to the environment to perform. I don't want Any emotional uh rains on you. So we're gonna we're gonna go through this. And I think it's a beautiful place that I've got to that level with her as a psychologist where so that means even if there's something quite challenging that you have to go through, now I know that she knows how to get it out of you. So Any that's why I also think any Challenge that I might come across if it's mental or anything, like because I've been through so much, especially in that period. But I know that there's ways to move through this. I know that it's only temporary. I know that if I have the right conversations and do the right thing and work with the right people, like nothing is insurmountable. So I think that's also why I'm able to stand on the line so free. And if things don't go to plan, there's always a solution. Because even with something like grief. I had somebody walk me through it. Was painful. Zero out of ten. Don't recommend it. But um It was possible to perform through that period. I wonder whether that's In a strange way, as much as you wouldn't want to have lost Siseline. Whether that almost gave you more freedom because it's like If you can perform a metal. In this thing. Absolutely. I have a lot of those moments in my career, whether they're public and known or not, like even if it's through illness that you weren't sure and all of that. Like When you've kind of performed in conditions that are Just in the absolute opposite to an ideal performance environment. And even if it hasn't gone a hundred percent the way you want it, even if it's like eighty-five percent, then who am I to stop put put any limits on what I can achieve when everything might be a bit smoother? And I think that's why I just Even if things don't go your way, like there's always room for growth. There's always room that you can do better because Um, I just haven't reached my top side. That's it really. And did it change your Your relationship with winning. That kind of grief. Absolutely. There are a few achievements through my career that I'm the proudest of. Funnily enough, I think the career highlights that you even like read out. They are obviously grey, but they're not necessarily the ones that were forged In That were the hardest one. Yeah. Like sometimes if you have a smooth year and everything's lovely, great, fab, it's beautiful. I love that for you. But there are some times when you've earned a bronze and you've had to literally claw your way to that bronze medal that even though it's a bronze and people are like Came third, like you're just holding it and you're so proud because the path there has not been easy and sometimes it's much more challenging than the gold. And I think that's also the beautiful thing about sport and our sport because You just never know what's going on in somebody's life. So somebody might be coming fifth They might be used to winning, but they might have come fifth that year and they're so happy. They're bouncing around, and you're looking at them like you're a multiple time Olympic champion. Fifth? You are used to much more than fifth. Be like, oh you'd never guess. This happened, this happened, this happened, this happened. You I didn't even know I was gonna be here, my legs hanging on, and I managed to come fifth. Like they're so happy. And then the next year, bang, top of the podium, you know, because they're learning about their capacities even in the times that are tough. And I think I've had a few years of that where things haven't gone according to plan, but nevertheless I've been able to do and Do things that If some people had the same season, they would just have wrapped it up. And um but that's also what motivates you to know that you have so much more to come in the future as well. I've been impressed by And I say this as the dad of a little girl who is a teenager and sort of emerging into the world and becoming a young woman from being a little girl. And I see the things that you've said And the changes that have happened around the way they're filming young athletes. Females on the start line. You know. as a dad, it felt inappropriate at times and and I'm so pleased they've brought the changes in. But also the way you've spoken about female athletes Having periods. And how much that changes your body. And you're totally right what you say that if this was something that affected everyone, not just female athletes, and it changed your biomechanics completely and your hormones. You know, I saw this thing the other day. It said the other day If If men had the same cycle, uh if men had the same physiological change. as a woman when they go through their menstrual cycle, it's the equivalent to a man aging one hundred and fifty years in twenty four hours. Can you seriously. We'd have think pieces and Can you imagine how different the world would be if that's what went on. But I think I think there's an also an element of that as a As a legacy piece for you. I don't know whether you've ever thought about it. Yeah, I have. There's actually there's so many things that I love to do in the world and like Um I'm sure like throughout my career and afterwards there are things I'm gonna be able to do touch point on, and that is definitely one of them. But um I definitely think it's a really Underexplored. And Sorry. It's a really underexplored area because Like There was a certain point, I guess, in my career, I think before Even twenty twenty two, maybe. Every Mm, but every major hamstring or back injury I had was to do my menstrual cycle. And it might not have been directly. But it's like if you've lost sleep. And and why did you lose sleep? Uh Oh, your pelvic position is annoying. Why? Oh this And it's just all been collected. And I was getting really frustrated, I have to admit, but I was just getting really annoyed and like I am very fortunate to have a great team. So they were able to do better. And I don't have the same problems now, but we were able to work towards that and really shoring up that period every month. But yeah, there are some of us that Everybody's periods are different. And it could just put a complete sledgehammer through your performance once a month and sometimes you have if you have particularly bad periods. You have no idea what the symptoms might be every month. Like they might be consistent. But They might not. They might get a complete curveball. you might suddenly not be able to engage your lower core in the same way. And as a sprinter, like if you're not engaging your lower core, you've got different bodies, parts of your bodies that are taking strain. And then how Big Oh, how strong, sorry, are those bodies that aren't used to taking strain? How long are they gonna hold? Do you have a championships this week? Do you have eight races and eight warm ups this week? Ooh, is your hamstring and hip flex gonna like that? Oh, okay, if your hip defects it turns off, what happens? Your calves get overloaded? Yeah. That's Very sciencey, but I think there needs to be a lot more work done. And I think we're Have you getting better? Uh The T V angle thing was a good was a good change, but I do think that there's a lot of scope to be done. I think there's a lot of people that want to do the work, but I think it needs investment because, you know, money makes everything go around. Everybody can have the intention, but if it's on a volunteer basis, you're not gonna get the greatest minds in the world together, spending the time that's required to really make any um real headway on it. Yeah. And it actually I don't think that this is just a this isn't just a sports conversation when it comes to the menstrual cycle, because you've got women who I walk in into a big meeting and they don't feel like they felt last week'cause things are different. And you know, I look at like a little girl like Flo, my daughter, and I think You understand your body really well, right? And you've got loads of People around you saying people, yeah. We've got all the data. This is why this week you're not gonna run like you ran last week. Yeah. What about the fifteen, sixteen year old club athlete? female performers who are berating themselves and massively critical. They're like why am I why am I three tenths down? Am I not good enough anymore? Maybe I should sack this whole thing off. Like I think it's not a little bit more. And they're like, Am I anxious? Do I need to do better on my mentalist? Like, no, babe, your cool body temperature's through the roof. You can't settle. The the better it is for for people that don't have a voice. But I know that even if, say, you've got women, you're in a boardroom and suddenly they're trying to give a big presentation, they get a hot flush. It's tough. Like it's it's there's a lot of things that I think as a society we should be working harder to have more open conversations with and Yeah, maybe solutions, but also just make everybody feel more comfortable with, whether that's men, women, mothers, fathers, all of the people around. So um That's why I want to have this conversation'cause I think Most guys might shy away from this cook. Definitely. Do you know what I mean? I'm even with my team, I'm so fortunate. They're like, How are you feeling? I'm like, overall I'm good, but I did not sleep at all last night. I had like three hours' sleep, starting my period, and I'm very fortunate that I work with people my physio is like, Okay, cool, we know what, thank you for letting me know. We're gonna loosen off your back, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that. And then my coach will be like, We'll adjust that. It is how it should be. should be and unfortunate, but I do make a point to work with people who are that way inclined as well. I think it's an essential performance, particularly at this end of my career. Like I don't have time for people who are gonna be funny. Okay, I've always got time for all people, but you know, I'm not gonna necessarily give my time to people who are going to be funny about it because if I want to perform at my max, I have to have people that Are willing to go there with all of you and not just cherry pick. You know, what they want to talk about. I do still have a daughter that when I try and talk to her about periods, she literally will leave the room and be like, Dad Give it a few years. Dad, I'm not having this conversation with you. But until she is eighteen, twenty one Exactly. Yeah. It's all on the table. Yeah. Um Last time we spoke um there was one person who you were fulsome in your praise of, and that's John Blackie. Yeah. Who has he just retired as He had his retirement due yesterday. I was there. He was Him and his family were kind of emotional. It was very beautiful, yeah. Um well now is the perfect moment then to pay Homage to him and what he did for your career'cause I Even when you stop working with him. I I imagine that you were probably still relying on a bit of his wisdom now and then. So much. Okay, so I'm on the end of the phone. Really? On the end of the phone. So in honor of John Blackie's amazing career for you and for many other athletes. How would you describe what he did for you in your career? I think what he did for me in my career I actually can't be put into words. I think I think for me just trying to say it is a sound, but I don't think that I could achieve the depth or even have enough superlativ for what he did for me and not just me, so many other athletes that he's coached, because obviously I went on to have a career in athletics. But I think when you have such A good man? as a coach and somebody that prioritises you as a person before you as a performer, it unlocks so many things across your life. Like you get confidence, you get the self esteem, you get the sense of if I work hard, I can do anything. Therefore, whatever industry you want to go and be in, whether that is sport or you want to go and work in as a doctor, you want to be in lawyer, or you want to go do anything Somebody like that has taught you If you want to be good at something and if you want to give something a shot, you commit to it and this is how you do it. And I've always been grateful for somebody for for John because he is so steadfast and so calm and so honest. That um you know that you can always trust him. And again, as I said, there's not enough superlatives and he like he's somebody that we're always gonna be What's the story that you share that best sums up? Oh that's a good question. It's hard because we worked together for twenty years and we still work together now, swim yesterday. Um There's a few. I think definitely when I've had times when I've been really upset with my performance. Say I've been injured at a really terrible just a terrible timing or something like that. He's always had the ability to like keep my head above water and make sure that I'm in a spot, even or even if I'm just not in the best mood. He's like, just go on the start line and I run a crazy time and he's like, Right, okay. So next steps we're gonna that was excellent. And now we're gonna push on, yeah? So he's always been able to kind of manage me emotionally and he's known me like the back of his hand, but he's also really fun and training with him was always fun. It's I really struggle to put into words. really struggle to put into words the influence that he's had on me and my career and also so many athletes'cause I think he's just phenomenal. I keep encouraging I'm like, please, even yesterday I asked him please write a book. He's like, No. I was like, okay. Oh. The answer's no. Um, he never wants any of the fame or the applaudits or the attention that I think. other people in his position might Readily take. Um, because it's for him, it's always been about the athletes. And even though I definitely like reenumerated him, he was really keen on never taking a fee. Like which is crazy. So obviously like I found other ways to like make it even and balance it out. So whether his wife needs something for his house or anything. Like we def there was definitely stuff going on for my own sanity, but at the forefront of his mind was that he just he just wants to do right by people. He really loves coaching, he loves track and field, he loves developing people, he likes seeing the spark in people's eyes when they kind of go and achieve their goals and do better than they thought they could. And I think I've just everybody's always got a lot of time in life for those kind of people. Uh we're gonna move on to our quick fire questions in a moment. Okay. Before we go there, I want you to take me to LA twenty twenty eight. Yes. Olympic two hundred metre final, you're thirty two. Maybe Amy Hunt next to you or a couple of places down. Yeah. twenty odd seconds to chase the one medal you have wanted your entire career. What does the thirty two year old Dina Rasher Smith need to understand in that moment that the little girl who Drew herself wearing those. Medals and even the dean who went to her first Olympics. What a privilege. I don't want to get emotional, but what a privilege. What a privilege it is to be on this line for your Fourth Olympic Games. Like Just having an incredible time, but she's gonna know exactly what to do. Like she's made so many mistakes before that it'll be a different roadmap this time. But um what a privilege, I think. I don't I don't think you necessarily always have that as the first thought because you're thinking about whatever your coach is telling you you need to do in that moment to be successful. But I think the overriding thought is just what a privilege and absolutely just do your absolute best in this moment. Like just Yeah, what a gift. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited to watch it. Thanks. It makes you emotional thinking about it. No, but well well when you ask me to compare it to the eight year old, that's not something that I would Tend to do. in like a sentence or a thought because you're so hyper focused in the moment, again, you're gonna be thinking about I mean, I I don't know what the coaching queues will be in two years' time, but whatever you've been told directly to go out there and do. And that's what's gonna be in your mind. But yeah, when you put it in that long trajectory, what a privilege it is to be in the minutiae of Yeah, how do I get this Olympic gold, right? But that will be your last Olympics, right? Yeah, mate. Melbourne's Melbourne's far, like both geographically and time. So therefore I m like I'm almost positive it will be. But all my mates that's like the older than me, they seem to be coming out of retirement. They seem to be just popping out at retirement, or even if they haven't said it out loud and they're retired, they're sending me messages like, Oh, I'm training, I'm just feeling how it goes. Like it's it's a really interesting time to be a female sprinter. A really interesting time. They're just loads of loads of them are just completely tearing up the rule book of what it means to be a female athlete. So I think that would be my last one. But if you spoke to some of them five, ten years ago, they'll be like, Never again. And then I'm getting little messages of them stretching like Yeah, I just went for a knee surgery, just trying to figure out all of it, and then we're just gonna see if I can get back on track. Not exposing names. Well but that shows you how much this sport never leaves people. It doesn't. And what a privilege it is to do it. And that's really why I think it's likely, although not certain, to be your last. And that's why I think it's likely though. Of all of your events. That is the moment to think about the eight year old girl. Yeah, I mean it depends. I don't want to get emotional in the moment though. Sometimes she's gotta she's gotta Get it done. Maybe afterwards. Yeah. Maybe not. Yeah. Okay. Maybe just not the execution. Maybe we're just gonna stay in the moment and execute. You know far more than me about psychology than that. Maybe maybe we're just gonna stay in the moment. The eight year old guy, we can think about that afterwards. Correct. The journey, we can we can get into the emotional details of that afterwards. We just need to be stone cold in that moment. Why don't we get together back in the studio in late twenty twenty eight? Yeah. On that day and then I will leave her before. Yeah. And you'll be figuring out if hopefully in twenty twenty eight we would have I would have figured out how to execute that mix really and not just be terrified for the whole backstory. I love the f have you seen that that quote though, the only two people in life that you have to make happy is the eight year old you with big dreams for your future. Yeah. And the eighty eight year old you who would love to be where you are now. Incredible But that's how I live life, honestly. That's why I'm just like My hero self is happy. And I kind of also when it comes to my grandma, I kinda figure out how my eighty eight year old self and she's I mean I've been through that psychological d like thing, remember. So I know she would be happy and I'm very comfortable in that. You're unbreakable. Yeah. Hopefully. Are you ready for some quick fire questions? Brought to you by Vitality. So I'm sure you know well. Yeah. Oh, the the life and health insurer who have proven to help people live up to five years longer. By nudging us towards healthier lifestyle choices. So let's do it. What are the three and you have done these, but it was a few years ago, the three most important non negotiable behaviors, do you think? On a stay? Um Dignity. And effort. What's one habit that's changed everything for you? Getting up as soon as I wake up and not going on my phone. No, oh my God, yeah. Greatest advice you've ever been given. Just try your best, try your hardest, and your best is often good enough. One goal that you haven't yet said out loud. I I can't say out loud. Haven yet said I work? No, come on. Now's not the time. Or the place. I keep most of my goals private, to be honest. Yeah. But they're good to have. Excellent. They're what keeps you going and that's what keeps you motivated. And when they're exciting goals, it definitely is what bounces you up and gets ready to chase everything. Yeah. What's your biggest strength? Uh yeah, my mental resilience. That's definitely something. Nice. Your greatest weakness. Sometimes I care a lot about people, which is never a weakness. In in life, never a weakness. Really happy for my emotions, really happy for my empathy, but there's always a time a time and a place. What advice would you give to a young deaner just starting out? Oh, do better than me, babe. Do better. Always wanna be better. Like I always say to young children when they're like, Oh my God, I wanna be like you, I wanna be like you're like I love that. Thank you, but you wanna be better than me. Like I'm not perfect. I made loads of mistakes. Like look at the success, but also understand the failures. Like lots of from a British perspective, often when I was coming up, I was doing a lot of this stuff for the first time. Like I was kind of I don't want to say it, but I was kind of breaching new ground for our nation a lot. So like lots of mistakes. So look at the positives, but also look at the times I've messed up and learn from both of them and then just do better. And finally your one golden rule for living a high performance life. Have fun. Yeah, enjoy it. Sounds good. It's a blessing. Well done. Uh you can find out more about living longer with vitality at Vitality.co.uk. The life and health insurer that aim to help you change your behavior, which then can change your life, and they are pioneers in prevention as well as top health and life insurance cover providers. Dino, I love that conversation. That was a fabulous interview, thank you. What an amazing conversation with an incredible person. I think what's really interesting there is that there's a few times isn't there that you can see Dina starting to get emotional and she kind of checks herself and stops herself from going there and it's a reminder that she's still Despite all the freedom she has, needs to live a life of control because um her whole life revolves around performing at the moment that she needs to perform despite all the little things that go on and How many times did she mention in the interview there are things that have happened that I still haven't spoken about where I mean as she said at the end that I'm so mentally resilient. I hope you really enjoyed that conversation. Maybe you have a young athlete in your household Maybe you have someone who's struggling at the moment with grief or Some of the other topics we discussed, I'd love you to share this with them. Um please remember to subscribe and follow the show. You can rate and review high performance wherever you listen to it or watch it. But I really appreciate you coming back for more. And I will see you next time for more. For now though, stay humble, curious. And empathetic. See you next time.