Transcript

A first look at Samsung’s blueprint to win the AI era, with Mauro Porcini

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1:43 The reality is if you let AI to Everything. then your company's gonna progressively look more and more like the other company. because the eye is gonna become more and more like a commodity. You know the human impulse.

1:58 The interaction between the human perspective and the AI perspective is what is gonna generate something that is original. That's Maro Porcini, president and chief design officer of Samsung. Since Maro joined Samsung last year, I've been eager to talk with him about the Korean consumer tech giant, its competition with Apple, and the impact of AI on its products. This week, as part of Milan Design Week, Mauro unveiled a slew of new ideas and experiments that give a glimpse of Samsung's future and of what may drive the tech future for all of us. So Let's get to it.

2:37 I'm Bob Safian, and this Із рапід респанс. I'm Bob Safe, and I'm here with Moro Focini, president and chief design officer at Samsung. Mora, welcome back to Rapid Response. Ciao Bob. Hi everybody. Really a pleasure to be back.

2:56 You were last on the show in twenty twenty two when you were chief design officer at PepsiCo. Last year you moved over to Samsung as its first ever chief design officer. So How different is the task that you've taken on from from what you did at PepsiCo? You were the first chief design officer there, also. Yeah. And I was the first at three M as well. So and I'm and I'm saying this because

3:23 The jobs are really similar. No matter the industry. You know, I'm an industrial designer. I spent at 3M ten years in tech. And then I first I I did this first mega leap, giant leap, to go to a completely different kind of industry in food and beverage. I never worked in that industry. And then One year ago again, I do another giant step. It's not just, you know, going back to the consumer tech industry, but moving to a completely different region of the world. Because designers what they do is They observe people, their needs, their wants, and they try to build solutions. The methodologies we use, uh the approach we have is transversal to any kind of industry. Obviously the companies are different, the culture is different. I'm European, I work for many years in the United States, and now I'm working Korea, you know, uh different worlds, but with very similar challenges. It's probably a decade or more ago.

4:16 As I recall you took PepsiCo's then CEO Andrew Nui on a trip to Seoul to sort of study Samsung's design, right? Does this feel like it's full circle for you a little bit? It is actually even before I I remember I was a student in university in the nineties, and I was observing how Samson was progressively transforming. To become an iconic design leader in the world. So I've been fascinated with Samsung already, I rarely out of Samsung to join me, for instance, em Triam. And when I joined Pepsi, as you just mentioned, I asked Kindra if she wanted to to go and see some companies that were really seriously investing in design, and so we took the plane and we came all the way to Korea and so it is full circle. As an Italian in American business and as a designer working with business people, you're always been a little bit of an outsider in some ways in the communities you're in. Now as you get to to Seoul and sort of you're the first non Korean president in Samsung's history, like

5:20 How much of being an outsider is good or bad and you know, how do you sort of I don't know, impact the culture without without alienating the people, you know, who built it. This idea of being suspended between different worlds. I grew up In Italy.

5:38 In the north of Italy from parents from the south, in a moment in time in Italy where the south and the north were really divided. I would go around my neighborhood. It was clear there was not belonging there. But then when I was going to the south in vacation during the summer. For sure I was not belonging there either. So already then, when I was a child, I lived in this grey area and this suspension between different identity. If you talk to the design world often they're like, Well, but you're a business person. But then if you talk to the business world, they are totally like you're not one of us. And so you don't belong there either. Often people are uncomfortable when they don't have a specific label, where they don't belong.

6:18 The message I want to send especially to the new generations of people that are trying to define their identity. Often in those gray areas you can Design your own identity and be unique and original. Already when I move As an Italian to the United States, there were many things that I didn't understand, that were alien to me. They were weird to me, honestly.

6:39 But uh you know, you need to really analyze yourself, analyze the culture you are in front of, and understand what are the unique strands that I bring to the table. So here it's a culture that is very organized. There is this vision coming from the top, and then an army of people that can execute. If used in the right ways is very powerful because they are able to move really quick. Obviously, you know, I was called to bring in a vision that is adding to the one that the company already had in design. So I spent really the past year trying to understand what were the strengths of the company and try to understand how I can bring something different. I'm still in the middle of it. You need to be, I think, very transparent about the fact that you will do missteps and mistakes, but again, you also need to show

7:27 As much as possible, you know, what you bring to the table. I've seen this commentaries on on LinkedIn from designers talking about your move to Samsung and kind of finding hope in it. And And I'm curious what what that hope is referring to. Look, I

7:45 I was surprised by those comments, too. Design incorporation is somehow struggling. The design community made huge promises in the first decades of the new millennium about the power of design thinking. And then in many instances design thinking didn't deliver. The zane thinking is important. Because you need a methodology, you need a process, you need tools. Exactly like a painter needs a brush, but then you need The right painter. You need Picasso, because if you give that brush to Picasso, you get something. If you give that brush to my accountant or my kid, you're gonna get something different. And instead, our design community talked too much about the brush, you know, the bristles and the material and how to design the brush. And we forgot that at the end of the day, what really makes the difference.

8:33 Is the thinking of the design thinkers. Do we have the right empathy? Do we read the right signals? Do we have the right intuition? To innovate you need the tool, you need design thinking, but you also need the right people with the right mindset. I was wondering how much of the reference to hope was referring to to Samsung specifically. I mean I'm struck that like PepsiCo at least historically was viewed as like the fighter brand compared to Coca-Cola, you know? And now you're at Samsung, which is enormous, but in consumer tech is kind of the Fighter brand to Apple.

9:08 Right, the parallel is is is really interesting. When I I joined Pepsico, and I'm doing the same here now, the same thing here and now in Samsung. What I'm telling my teams is forget the other guys. We can't design against a competitor. That's really

9:27 the wrong approach. We need to really focus on People. I really understand how can We create the most extraordinary solution for them. When I say solution, it means The best product, the best service, the best experience, the best communication and storytelling. If you work against a competitor, you may end up being blind.

9:48 To a sea of opportunities that eventually are new to the industry, are different for the industry. If you just focus on the competitor, you you may do very interesting things. Don't take me wrong, there are endless cases of of companies that focus on beating the competitor and did it it very very well. But if you really want to create value long term for for your organization, if you build a culture that is really human centered, a culture that is really thinking, what is the ideal world for the people I serve? You've been at Samsung about a year and you're announcing this sort of design manifesto for Samsung's future this week as part of Milan Design Week. So can can you give us a taste of that and how that came together? The pillar of what

10:33 We're doing with designers Samsung is this is really making sure that designers are the voice of humanity. in the organization. I identify four different territories, four categories where to focus on. The first one is what they call leave

10:50 Longer. Then there is live better. Live loud. And live on. Longer means all those technologies, most of them are wearable technologies that we have to monitor your body and help you.

11:05 with your physical and mental well being and then all those technologies that are there to for your safety. The safety of yourself, of your loved ones, of your pet. Of your home, of your belongings. The Second one the Live Better is all about using technology.

11:22 to free up time. To do what you love the most. The second dimension is literally about using robots and AI to increase the productivity of what you do, or ideally to do things on your behalf so that you can be free. of technology and do whatever you want. With or without technology, is up to you, is your choice. The third dimension, the live loud is the word of creativity, self expression. It's about l using technology to express yourself.

11:51 It could go from creating content for social media all the way to, for instance, creating your start up from the comfort of your living room using those technologies. And then the fourth dimension is what we call live on is about transcending yourself and preserving memories. We are saving pictures and videos of the people we love. I have Thousands and thousands of pictures and videos of my family members, and I have almost nothing of, for instance, my grandparents or especially when they were kids. So already today When people are not with us, either because we are

12:28 they are in another side of the world, or maybe because they're not with us in this world anymore, we can preserve their memories, their emotions, their knowledge, but more than ever now with AI, we can literally build digital twins of people. It will happen organically because the more we share Everything we do we AI devices, AI platforms, the more these platforms will learn about us and will be able to replicate us in some formal way. My parents are in their 80s. I hope they're gonna live for the next fifty years.

13:02 But when they're not with me anymore, I would love to have a moment, you know, let's say have a moment of difficulty to have the possibility to ask my dad, What would you do if you were me? In all of these You see that the technology is just a tool is a deservice of humanity. When you come up with these four areas, to what extent do you sort of start with like Here are the products we have now and we have to serve them.

13:27 versus like here are the questions and how do I move the products into there. There are three horizons that we're considering. One is the short horizons. You start from the products of today and you try to Advance them. in a incremental way, even though obviously you always try to figure out if there is something breakthrough that you can implement quickly.

13:50 Then there is a second horizon where I need to figure out how I can do something that is more radical, but the the area where the four categories apply the most is the long term horizon. This is where You define the future portfolio of the company. If

14:06 There are products that maybe in the future won't exist anymore. Because Robots will do a lot of things that eventually other devices do today. So those devices will need to evolve, need to be redesigned. Let's say in ten years time, in a house where you have multiple kind of robots, you have humanoids, you have uh utilitari robots, you have small robots that are more about emotional. Companionship.

14:33 In this kind of house, our appliances will change. The robot will be the main interface between you and some of these appliances. It's gonna be in your in your house. How your TV, your refrigerator, your speakers will evolve, what will be the role, what will be the shape of these devices, where they will be placed, and then you go back to today and you start to influence the development of of those products in the direction. And this is influencing, by the way, eventually strategies of acquisitions, partnerships, uh you know, or research that you can do. You know, when you talk about having a you know, uh a digital twin of your parents to talk to

15:15 You know, that some people might find that like, ooh, that's that's not that doesn't necessarily make me comfortable. And I'm curious Whether there's any Conflict within Samsung about sort of how AI and robotics might impact the role of humanity. I mean, there must be a lot of discussion about processes and safety guardrails. Like how how do you how do you address all of that?

15:37 Look, I I'm glad you're mentioning this because Essentially when I talk about What I'm Trying to push and pitch to the world, not just Samsung, but to the world in general, is the idea that we need an ethical compass. What we can control as business leaders, you know, you, Bob, me, Mauro, each of all the people listening to us right now.

16:02 We have a role here. No matter our titles, no matter what we do, you know in life, we have a role to remind the world That what we need Is care. is love for humanity. Now there are designers that don't care and there are designers that do as there are business leaders that don't care and business leaders that do. It's my responsibility.

16:23 and and an opportunity that I have because of the voice that I have, the platform that these companies give me to remind the world That in this conversation right now. We shouldn't talk about a I yes, a I no, or robos yes or robos no. They're gonna happen. They're gonna happen. we should talk about rules, policies, you know, constraints, you know the the boundaries, yes.

16:46 But even before that we should talk about What is gonna inform those policies and boundaries and and this is the love I talk about. I make the example of my parents because people can connect with that, because there is an obvious love connection between a son and a father and the mother. There is a lot of conversations about the potential of AI, what AI can do or cannot do. But if we will talk more about Caring for each other, about loving each other. Many of the problems we have, you know, the hate we we find in social media, the conflicts that we see all around the world, uh, the problems that we have with technology, the problems that we have with

17:25 Brands and companies any kind of problem. You know, you find The solution to that In this care for each other, in this love for each other. This became many years ago. A mission in life, a call, you know, that I have. And when Samson called me, you know, I I've been always fascinated by the world of consumer.

17:46 uh electronics, I did my thesis in the nineties in wearable technologies. Just you know, so it's been always a passion of mine and technology is a tool and you can drive it in one direction or the other. And we should all Talk today about what is the right direction and again this care for people, for humanity, and making sure that technology is there at the service of people is is fundamental. Mauro is both absolutely practical and totally aspirational, looking to bring love, as he puts it, into everything we do. So how does he extend that love to his team when managing in the age of AI? And what will the form factor of the future be for tech, whether wearables or otherwise? We'll talk about that and more after the break. Stay with us.

18:36 Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There's gonna be two types of companies. Those were great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't how do we build a future. That is human centered.

18:58 I'm Rana El Chaoyubi. On my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show.

19:34 Because every Friday we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there. Mm. Before the break, Samsung's Maro Porcini explained why he doesn't focus on Apple when looking to the future. Now we talk about how to transform a business in the age of AI, how form and function will shift in the tech of tomorrow, and what the tech world needs to borrow from the world of fashion.

20:23 Plus why experimentation is the one strategy we all need to embrace. Let's jump back in. You now oversee a global team of fifteen hundred designers across mobile, displays, TV, home applying, like everything. You got hubs all over the world. How how do you think about sort of Getting them up to speed or having them on there. Like how do you apply the love There.

20:52 While also, you know, delivering the business of being more efficient and faster and all the other things that you know that businesses have pressure to do. As soon as the I started to be a thing, I remember in my previous company, immediately I I I I created a task force to jump on it and and leverage it. In a moment where a lot of designers were pushing back like crazy on On AI, we decided no, this is an incredible opportunity. And and today we're using it, you know, extensively in so many different ways in the company. And is really increasing. The productivity meaning is increase is accelerating. the speed, but mostly is increasing the quality of what we do. I think one of the biggest values that I bring to the table today is that

21:38 Is bringing in A very different perspective. Eventually with the the AI biases, you know. You could replace one bias with another if you're not careful. But what is interesting is not my perspective or AI perspective, but it's the blend in between the two. And this is when I talk about the interaction between human And AI. I mean the reality is if you let AI Do

22:02 Everything. Then your company's gonna progressively look more and more like the other company. Because they are gonna become more and more like a commodity. You know, they human inputs the interaction between the human perspective and the AI perspective is what is gonna generate something that is original. A third perspective We live in a world that is very competitive and obviously cost is a is a level that companies have. But quality of what you do, new ideas, innovation is an incredible level as well.

22:34 I'm sure not all your designers necessarily feel that way. And sort of how do you Get them to To see it? The moment you try to transform Anything in a company.

22:46 You have resistance. I mean strategy I've been using over the years. Again, not just in AI, because uh we mentioned in the beginning of this conversation being the first ever chief design officer in these three multinational corporations. So my life has been always alive where I had to. Drive transformation. What I usually do is to identify what I call the co conspirators. People that get it in the organization. With them I build proof points.

23:15 I show that actually that thing can drive real value. And then I storytell the heck out of it. You know, I internally, externally, I use my personal social media, the social media of the company. Platforms like this one right now, Bob, and then a lot of informal communication within the company to celebrate the new approach, to celebrate what that approach can drive and celebrate the people, the co conspirators that been driving this. So this is how progressively more and more people are like, Wait a second, oh I didn't see the value there. I wanna be part of it. And more and then you start to scale it up.

23:55 Where are you now in that run in Samsung? Or is it Different in different places. When we talk about Me as a designer introducing a new approach, we are for sure in the occasional leap of fate. I had one full year to identify my co conspirators and we're working on you know building the proof points and and things are progressing in the right direction.

24:18 you know, Milandes and Week is an example of uh how the company is letting me Take, you know, multiple ideas that embody All the way. to the world in public. Uh so it it's you know that there is support, there is sponsorship from the top. They want to drive this evolution of design. I found my co conspirators and I'm lending you know the first projects and the first initiative.

24:46 If you talk instead about AI, similar things, even though in some areas with AI we're already scaling up, you know, the use of AI in many different areas of the organization, while in other areas we are more experimenting and and and train things. But I think once again It's what is very important when you dri dry transformation is to have very, very clear what is gonna be your Journey. And understanding that it is a journey that requires time and you need to stick to your plan, uh and you need to be very clear about the different steps you need to take. I'm coming here to to something with, you know, a very clear playbook of of how to do it that worked for me in the past, and it seems that it's working also here.

25:29 And I was curious, the you know, you have the title of of president I is that sort of something that Helps the credibility, like gives you more impetus within the organization to get all of this done, or or does that title represent that you're I don't know, that you're in charge of some P N L that's different too.

25:50 Like any title in any company, it means that I'm positioning a certain level in the organization that is the highest level close, you know, close to the CO. So it's not about P L, but it's about Credibility, but mostly is the message that Samsung is sending both to the company and employees and then to the world. That they believe in design. Is a message both internal and external.

26:16 What you're doing at Samsung in some ways are messages that you're trying to get out much more broadly. But obviously there's there's business stuff at stake for for Samsung. And I'm curious how what you think about what's at stake for Samsung right now and how how you and the and the design group plug into it. Look. AI is gonna change the way we interact with all the devices that surround us. In the company we have a mobile um business that is mobile phone and wearables, we have all the world of television and uh sound systems. And then we have all the world of appliances in you know, in consumer electronics, these are the three uh big businesses.

27:03 Is evolving and transforming through AI. So I give you an example how the television is evolving in the next few years. We're not talking about the future in the next few years moving from A device where you are passively receiving content to a device that essentially is your AI companion. How the design of this device

27:25 It's changing. You know, the traditional television Before a eye is a frameless. T V The screen.

27:33 As thin as possible that you see on the wall. Is that gonna be the design of the TV of AI, or is it gonna be different because this object needs to interact with you in a different way? Even without considering AI. in a industry where In the past fifteen years, everything converged towards a very uniform, homogeneous design language that is the language of minimalism, that is very essential, a language inspired by the Bauhaus, the idea of form follows function, and you strip out anything that is not essential. Is that

28:08 The design language of the future. Why in the tech industries like this, but then you look at fashion, you look at Arquitecture, automotive, lighting, furniture, and you have so many different kinds of design languages. There is so much diversity and choice reflecting human diversity. Why in tech instead everything looks very, very similar? So you're saying like I could uh have a TV that looks very different from your TV In a way that's not really available today, but might be economically feasible for Samsung to produce for me.

28:44 Yeah, look. We are all different. Your living room is different than mine. Why do we need to have T Vs that all look the same? I created this new formula to direct our uh design uh work that moved from form for loss function. to form and function.

29:05 follow meaning. What does it mean that I'm gonna blend form and function and mix form and function on the base of what is meaningful for different people. This can manifest in multiple ways. One, the most obvious that is gonna happen no matter, you know, what me or Samsung or our design team decides, is that in user interfaces

29:28 True AI We are gonna mix form and function to create a interface. for you that is different than the one that I'm gonna have on my phone or my TV. So AI will create a perfect interface for you and it's gonna happen very soon, you know, in the near future. So already there from a design standpoint, you know, I don't want to go too technical, but essentially you don't have any more the rigidity of a system that you need to design up front and impose to people. But you need to design how form and function will blend in a way that is meaningful to people, but is also makes sense for your brand.

30:03 And also help people not to be overwhelmed and and confused by total freedom. So what are the right boundaries? What is the right flexibility between the freedom that you give, but also the our direction that you have. 'Cause there's a lot of discussion about what the best form factor for AI is gonna be and hardware and and other things. And it sounds a little bit like you you're saying there's not gonna be just one. There's gonna be different ones. Good point. So you know, I was saying one is the user interface is gonna be flexible by definition. The other one is the form of this Devices.

30:38 And now The more technology goes In the direction of you know, wearability, fashion, things that you wear. But also we're talking about television, the same in the house, the more you have Technology that should be warmer, more human, more diverse.

30:56 The more we need to think about the idea of more customization or the logical fashion. So in furniture design you buy A chair, and often you have it available in different kinds of colors and materials and finish. The more this technology is gonna be on your body, the more you're gonna have if it's a earbud of you know, in a certain way, if it's eyewear, if it's a pendant, if it's a pin. The logic of flash on will apply. So even before we talk about is A pin or a pendant or a earbud or a glasses, even before death, no matter what it's gonna be, it's gonna have different kinds of designs.

31:32 Form and function will Align to what is meaningful to you. Now to answer your question about what is gonna be the right form factor, I think you know, we're all investigating different kinds of form factor because There are pro and cons with each of them.

31:50 And I think We need to Start proposing them to people and see how people react. But we are literally in an experimentation phase. Any company that tell you, Oh, I know perfectly what that is gonna be. It's line because it's not history of innovation. We all know. We all we know very well that in this phase is a phase of experimentation. And so any company in the world, I'm pretty sure working in tech right now, is experimenting with so many different kinds of form factor. And some of them are coming out and people are

32:24 You know, trying them and exp you know with commercial products. Some others are just in form of concept, you know, we're testing them in house. In Milan Design, we are showing you know a variety of different form factors from pants to headbands that you put on um on your head to eyewear. But the reality is that we're showing multiple of them To say It may be none of them.

32:48 Uh But to say we're experimenting with multiple front factors. In the show in Milan. The goal is to communicate a vision and a philosophy that is based on two pillars.

32:59 One is Human centricity. you know, l is literally elevating the quality of life, helping people living longer, better, loud, and done. The other pillar is what is the design language of human centricity is what we call an expressive language, where form and fact and function flex and blend to be meaningful to people. And so then we show so many different products from future concepts of televisions, uh dressers, uh wearable devices, speakers, kitchen experiences, all with the eye behind, you know, enabling. A different kind of experience that sometimes is very functional, sometimes it's very emotional, but there is always this blend of different approaches.

33:41 Sometimes it's very pop, you know, you feel the K-pop culture of Korea in some of the installations. Sometimes it's very Zen, but this is exactly what we're talking about. Technology that flex, both in the intent as well as in the manifestation in the design language to serve humanity, people, you were all different. And once again, we are in the phase of experimentation. The event is the Samsung Design. Open lab is an open laboratory with a lot of experiments mix with some commercial products that are already gone in that direction. Because I wanted people to feel what I felt when I came into the company.

34:22 And after you know, in the first few weeks, they started to show me so many ideas, so many concepts, so many things. And I was like, Oh my God, but the world needs to see this. And obviously, there is a lot of confidentiality and patent and this and that. You know, so it's difficult to share everything, you know. Uh we're working on, obviously. But we figure out a way to share The energy. of the experimentation.

34:47 Some of the concepts, some of the ideas, but we don't want anybody to focus on the specific, for instance, form factor of the wearable. But we want to say look. The world is going in this direction. We need to the most important thing is to focus on humanity. And these are some examples of I some experiments that we're doing, but this really a phase of you know experimentation. Well, Maro, this is great. I always love your enthusiasm and your energy uh about all this and

35:18 Thanks for doing this today. Thank you, thank you for having me, Bob. Mauro is such a distinctive executive. He talks the language of business, but he also talks about love in a way that other business leaders just wouldn't. What strikes me most may be the clarity of his frameworks, about how to spur change within an organization, about his pillars of product design. Despite all the uncertainty about the future with AI and with robots, he manages to create solid priorities and a compelling direction for movement. As he notes, deferring to AI needn't be our choice.

35:56 Originality is within each of us, and we all have a responsibility to shape what's coming next. I'm Bob Sapphian. Thanks for listening. Rapid response is a wait what original.

36:19 I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our producer is Alex Morris. Associate producer is Mashumaku Tonina. Mixing and mastering By Brian Pew. Our theme music is by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcast is Le Tal Malad.

36:38 For more, visit rapidresponesshow.com. Yeah.