#733: Live 10th Anniversary Random Show with Kevin Rose — Exploring What’s Next, Testing Ozempic, Modern Dating, New Breakthrough Treatments for Anxiety, Bitcoin ETFs, Mike Tyson vs. Jake Paul, and Engineering More Awe in Your Life

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4:26 Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferris. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferris Show, where it is usually my job to sit down with world class performers of all different types. Tease out the habits. Routines, favorite books, and so on that you can apply and test in your own. Lives and I have said ladies and germs hundreds of times now, it is crazy to think That

4:48 The tenth anniversary is this week. officially of the podcast and there's no better way to commemorate such a wild milestone, something I never could have imagined. than with my good buddy Kevin Rose and a little teela, because as many of you listeners know, Kevin was my very first guest for episode one, way back in April twenty.

5:09 14. So this time, rather than me interviewing someone who is more or less a stranger to me or less known to me, we have a very special episode I recorded with Kevin at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. So for those who do not know, Who is Kevin Kevin is a partner at True Ventures, an early stage venture capital firm that has investe more than$3.8 billion in a portfolio of more than 350 companies. He's also a serial entrepreneur. He's founded a bunch of companies. He's an all around wacky and crazy guy. And we go way, way, way back. He also hosts the Kevin Rose show. Sound familiar? Tim Farr's show, Kevin Rose Show. That's Kev Kev Roro, which that's an inside joke for very early listeners, which offers glimpses of the future into investing, artificial intelligence, wellness, and culture, featuring conversations with experts at the vanguard of their fields. And for those people who want bonus credit, you can send a hashtag. Kev Kev Row.

6:05 to Kevin Rose on Twitter. And if you don't get that joke, don't worry about it. In this episode, we meander all over the place. We catch up as we do discussing the dangers of audience capture, Kevin's Bitcoin ETF strategy, novel mental health treatment, including one very, very innovative treatment that I'm incredibly excited about for Not just depression, but also anxiety, which does not involve any drugs. Modern dating, Ozempic and its cousins testing these types of things, time dilation, how to increase, hopefully, awe. in your own life and the reasons you might want to consider that. Mike Tyson versus Jake Paul and So much more. So Let's get to it, shall we? Go to kevinrose.com to learn more about Kevin or follow him on Instagram at Kevin Rose.

6:50 And I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did. Ten years. What a What a thing to say. I I'd never thought it would ever last this long. Started off as a lark, a little experiment. And I ended up with the best job in the world. So thank you for listening. Gives me great joy. to

7:09 Have these conversations and provide these and That's enough for my intro. Thanks for listening, everybody. Good afternoon, everybody.

7:22 Hello, hello. Thanks for being here. Hi Kevin. Tim Tim. We're doing it. Kev Kev, we're doing it. This

7:29 Our first ever. Live. I think so. I think we've always just been at your apartment or house drinking tequila. It's usually how it goes. It's a very formal affair. So thanks for being here, everybody. Yeah. And

7:41 Cheers. Cheers. With our water. With our uh quote unquote water. It's good to see everyone. Thank you for coming out. Of This is awesome.

7:51 We we have we have a lot to talk about and a lot to celebrate because Mr. Tim Ferris has hit one billion downloads. Okay. Yeah. So you are the first to hear this. Actually happened mid last year and I was waiting for the right time to talk about it. And so I figured why not talk about it today? So hell of a

8:13 Milestone. Who would have thought? I mean so many bots. And after our first episode where I asked you if you had to be a Breakfast cereal, what you would choose and why and then you busted my balls relentlessly and that continues. Yeah.

8:28 And tenth anniversary's coming up. Yeah, ten years. How long are you gonna keep doing this? I'll keep doing it as long as it's fun. I still enjoy doing it. I'll probably Tighten things a little bit in the sense that

8:41 Return to some basics. really try to be aware of not automatically following the majority in terms of trends or new platforms. I think that's a dangerous seduction. Can be helpful, but you want to be thoughtful about it. So I'll probably back off of video in a lot of ways as one example. and especially personally will back off of short form video. Not because there's anything inherently bad about it, but that's just not my game. So I like to choose games where there's some van diagram overlap of energy in for me, recharging and also

9:14 Capability. Yeah. So a good question that I like to ask friends, I like to ask myself is, you know, what is easier for you than other people, whatever that is. And typically you'll have an advantage there. You either have some particular skill. Or you have some particular type of endurance.

9:31 that will give you a competitive advantage. Not that you have to compete, it's not zero sum, but holy shit is podcasting crowded. It is Really, really crowded. And there's some very, very, very talented interviewers out there. So it's become a much more saturated Red ocean of sorts? And The practice for me.

9:52 as I pause at ten years will be to think about How I can create More blue oceans for myself. Which I find more exciting. But if it's fifteen years, twenty years, I'm gonna be having these conversations no matter what. Yeah. The question is, do I record them and then put them on a podcast? I don't know, but I'll continue to have these conversations. So my feeling is why not just record them? It's not a heavy lift. When you think back over say those last ten years, there has to be not in a slamming way, but there has to be some

10:22 really challenging interviews that you've had. In terms of just like Someone was just so sharp you couldn't keep up. Or just like oh God, I was really hoping this would go better. Like any fun stories. You don't Maybe not the this would go better, but like who was just like so sharp that just absolutely blew you away.

10:41 Oh, there's so many. I mean, there are a lot. I mean Martine Rothblatt comes to mind as one who's just incredibly, incredibly sharp. There are many others. I can tell you one where I was the most intimidated and it showed up in the recording, which was with Ed Catmall of Pixar. At the time who was the first person I interviewed. Who I had not had any previous contact with. And we got on.

11:07 Had no established rapport, of course. Very nice guy. Very sharp. And I was so nervous. I'll flash forward and give you the punchline. On Twitter and other places.

11:20 I saw feedback, dozens of tweets that said something like great podcast, but mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. And I was like, what the fuck? And I went back and I listened to it, and every time Ed said anything, I was like, Mmm. Mm-mm. Super Japanese. I can say that. I used to live there. And I was just like, wow, I am like Compulsively nervously.

11:45 indulging myself with this tick. And these days we would fix something like that. But at the time I was like, Oh, still work to do. Who is the biggest I have to say, I think I I can probably guess this, but in terms of like fanboy I mean, obviously Arnold now you're best friends with. We see you pictures of your skiing, you guys play chess, you do all this shit together. Arnold must have been a huge one for you. Huge, huge. Well, Hugh Jackman must have been also huge. Yeah. Huge Jackman. He's a large man. And everything you would hope him to be as a side note. I would say there were a few inflection points in terms of guests because at the time celebrities on podcasts was pretty uncommon.

12:23 And eight listeners on podcasts, quite uncommon, I would say. Arnold was certainly one. That first. conversation for me Tony Robbins was also another that was a big one. And a lot of these folks did their first podcast on The Tim Ferriss show, which is also

12:38 Really fun for me. Jamie Fox took a year and a half, two years to get booked, and that just blew my mind. He is the Ultimate. performer on every level. Jamie Fox and Hugh Jackman, I would say, certainly stand outs in terms of The catholes of entertainment. They can do everything. It's incredible.

12:56 So I'd say those stand out certainly as a couple of inflection points. And it's just been experiment after experiment and it's very personally driven. And that is To keep My interest high?

13:09 And it's also to try to counteract any impulse to Chase. Google trends and whatever might be in the news cycle. Right. So for instance there was a year where My first interview with Bology went

13:24 parabolic and completely insane in terms of downloads. I mean millions upon millions upon millions of downloads. And there is this one where he got a lot of predic predictions right? He did, yeah, he got a lot of predictions right. I would say that in that particular case we had an internal conversation and I think that you have to be very careful about your audience shaping you. You can become a caricature of your most extreme views or behaviors. And if you allow that to drive your behavior, you can become the mask that you wear.

13:53 And I've seen that. We've both seen that. With folks who have their most extreme views and headlines reinforced on, say, YouTube, and then they suddenly Replicate that. and emphasize it and they become that person. they become the actor on the stage. So you have to be careful about that. And the impulse was to do more crypto, more crypto, more crypto. And I said, No, we're not going to do that. Actually we're going to do zero crypto for a while.

14:18 Just to make it clear that our priorities for the show. So I continue to be thrilled by Conversations.

14:27 I've had a lot of fun. And I'll keep doing it as long as it's interesting. Because if it's not interesting for me, it's not that's going to be clear to the People who listen. Do you know what I mean?

14:39 Hundred percent. Yeah. We got a lot to talk about. We have a lot to talk uh about and we have much more limited time than we would normally have. Forty seven minutes left. So let's jump into it. Classic random show style with a handful of things to just BS about. Speaking of crypto, I mean it's having the moment again. It is obviously very cyclical type environment. Like

15:01 We're back up, things are going crazy. I did something wild and and we always do this weird thing where we say not weird but important thing where we say not investment advice. Very important. Over the years when you leave various jobs, you tend to have like A little four one case sitting over here, or if you've done a Roth IRA or something like that. The nice thing about

15:23 The fact that we actually have ETFs now is that you can put actual crypto, you buy these actual ETFs that are crypto. I mean we all saw that that got approved. And so What I decided to do was take all of those retirement accounts

15:37 And there's like three or four of them. And just convert them all to Bitcoin ETFs. And this sounds crazy, and I'm not saying that this is for everyone. Because certainly I believe everyone. But the nice thing about it is that at retirement you get all those gains tax free.

15:54 And the thing that people don't know is there are gains. If there are gains. Yes, that's right. If there are gains. But the thing that people don't know is that there are So many competitive ETFs that are out there, right? You got BlackRock, you got Fidelity, Franklin Templeton, you've got probably another dozen or so. And they all charge management fees. But if you take a look behind the scenes and actually peel back. Who's providing the services underneath

16:20 These, you know, dis takers. It's largely coin based. Fidelity is the only one, I think, that does their own custody of actual crypto. There might be one or two others, but Almost everyone is Coinbase on the backend. So really at the end of the day, what you want is the lowest fee. And so Franklin Templeton has the lowest expense ratio of all of these

16:41 And so I just moved everything into Franklin Templeton's ETF and just keep it that way. And then at retirement, fifty nine and a half. You get to start taking disbursements of that. And if there are gains You get them tax free. So it's kind of a fun little hack to do. You know, just if you want to see that upside over, you know, the next couple of decades, if there is upside, I guess. And take it out tax free. Obviously if you're just gonna go buy and hold Bitcoin, why pay the fees, right? There's tons of exchanges you can go and and and pay less. You don't have to pay an annual fee like you would with an ETF.

17:14 But if you're gonna do it in a tax free account, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So that's my one little fun little thing I did the last couple of weeks. I've had a lot of fun little things the last couple weeks, but we'll be second place on the roster. Well, we sold proof. So with my my NFT venture over the last few years.

17:31 Went to Uga Labs, which I'm happy found a home. At a place that is actually building You know, what I consider to be a very high quality game with a micro economy and something that has some real legs to it that hopefully

17:45 Will turn into something that is durable and that is Large. The quote I heard was kinda roadblocks for adults. Which is like, you know, an infrastructure where you can go and build and create worlds inside of a three D environment. that has its own built in currency and an economy.

18:03 powered by, you know, NFTs and actual assets inside of that world. So I realized finally I came to the stage where After being a couple years in I know I'm not the hardcore D Gen. I'm not gonna be getting there on stage trying to like Tell people things that you're going to do. Well, I mean, we talked about this at length, you know, a podcast ago one last time we did the random show.

18:26 But you know, I wanted to find a good home. So it was No easy feat to go and work and and try and find, you know, someone like Yuga who if anyone's gonna make it, good Lord, I hope Yeah, they do. So uh that's been that's been a nice kind of like transition and and new move. So personal question related to this. My experience

18:46 As someone with front row seeds to your entrepreneurial journey is every time you have an exit or finish a company you say, I'm never doing a company again. Never doing one again. Never again. And then six months later you start another company. So if you were me, what odds would you give Kevin Rose? to sticking to that. Ninety nine percent I'm not gonna start another company. No, I'm telling you.

19:06 Well here's the thing I realized. Don't hurt me, don't hurt me, more, more He brought in tequila behind the scenes you're not supposed to. So It's all my fault. Yeah, a little bit of it. So there we go. We might get kicked off stage now. I had to come back with something. That's all I got. So here's the deal. Two things is that anytime you tie finances

19:40 to a startup like meaning like people's financial well being. It is a whole nother level of emotion that you get from people that are participating in what you do. And that's the most challenging startup I've ever faced. And then the second thing I realized is that like I love that early stage ideation. Like, you know, coming up with the idea for zero fasting early on before it was a thing and or dig in the early days

20:04 I don't like the scaling aspect. I appreciate the one woo out there. Some of the members dig But I don't a appreciate the scaling. I'm just not good at it. It's not In my DNA to be able to Manage

20:16 The call it When you're just getting started, it's the ten things you need to do. And then you get to five, ten people, fifteen people, twenty people, and all of a sudden There's emotions involved, and not everyone's up to speed and there's a lot of more of the Just logistical management of of humans.

20:34 Which is quite challenging for me personally. I like the idea side of things, so I'm done. I mean I'd I'm I'd much rather focus on things like content creation and hopefully finding and seeing around corners early enough with the podcast where we can expose people to the next big thing and they they decide whether they want to get involved or not. Not me creating that next big thing. Yeah, and for people who've been paying attention for a long time.

20:57 Kevin is given. Previews of the future many, many times on the Random Show on this podcast. So I I do think your superpower, one of your superpowers is Either super early stage or actually public market. Supermature. But not in between. Not so much in between. Uh so I wanna switch gears a little bit and mention something that I'm incredibly

21:20 Excited about. Which is The most impressive Let's call it mental health intervention that I have encountered in the last Ten years.

21:30 So as some of you may know, I've been very involved with supporting a lot of research, basic science and so on related to psychedelic compounds and psychedelic therapies. That has been because th I believe they can really change the lenses through which we look at psychiatry, mental health. And so called mental disorders. Completely due to some of the effect sizes and

21:55 Durability. of say effects on complex PTSD. treatment resistant depression and so on. But I'm actually tool agnostic. Just like with startup investing, I'm looking for uncrowded bets with super high leverage potential outcomes. I'm quite agnostic about the tools.

22:13 And I will say And you and I have talked about this privately a little bit. But in the last Let's call it year, especially the last six months, I've done a very deep dive on a new iteration of an older technology, which is TMS, transcranial magnetic stimulation. So this is a type of brain stimulation.

22:34 The technology has existed for a number of decades. But the protocols and the neuro targeting has advanced really quickly. There was there's full subreddits where you could go And learn how to do it yourself at home. Don't do this. Do this. People were literally having burns on their skins. Yeah. Yeah. This is Star War War's territory. Try that. Don't do this, guys. In part because you can make things a lot worse if you don't do it the right way. But to Jump to the punchline.

23:00 I have gone through two rounds of something called accelerated TMS. You can learn a lot. About this by looking at a number of scientists. including Nolan Williams out of Stanford. I did an interview with Nolan on the podcast for people who want to do a deep dive. And uh they developed what was previously known. It's gone through some rebranding, the Sync protocol. which is a very condensed protocol for administering TMS. So you have these magnets, they uh elicit, in this case, theta bursts.

23:29 And typically you might have TMS treatments over the span of many weeks, many months. They're compressing fifty sessions into ten days. Or actually fifty sessions into five days, excuse me. Pause for one second, though. For people that don't know, what does this look like for you said you said magnets. I'm I'm thinking like I don't know what I'm thinking, but like what are you actually doing? Are you hooking shit up to your head? Are you in a lab? Are you doing it at home? No, you're not doing it at home. You're hooking so you are in a clinic Or lab.

23:59 And there are different iterations of this. So my first round was with a company called Brainsway. and they use a particular H seven coil. They're developing new technologies. That's effectively a helmet. That you then attach to your head with a chin strap. And based on specific targeting depending on the condition you're trying to address, which could be

24:19 Depression, treatment resistant depression could be generalized anxiety disorder. Could be O C D any number of C Right, E D. Sure. Everybody's got their thing. If there's magnetic Viagra, then there's a whole new business I need to invest in. So yeah. Sure. And then the second round was with Magnus Ventures and a slightly different technology, but it effectively looks like a paddle.

24:43 that is placed on the head. And they use computer vision and pretty sophisticated targeting. But the upshot of this is going into it, no one will be surprised. I remember when I had my first diagnostic interview with one of these psychiatrists and we went through this long multi hour process and they said, you know You score X, Y, and Z And it seems like you have moderate to severe O C D and they're like, This might take a little while. I know this is heavy news. Like if we need to take a break and I was like Are you kidding me? Like this is no one this is a surprise to no one. Like let's let's move on. So I went in with pretty high

25:19 Assessment scores for Just to simplify the whole thing. O C D. Which looking at my family, you'd be like, Yeah, obviously. And then anxiety and a lot of long term listeners will know about depression. Um that also is pretty much kind of genetically hardwired.

25:38 Did these two sessions and With three months so far of durability. no longer meet any diagnostic criteria for any of those. It has been the most durable noticeable on a day to day week to week basis.

25:55 change in my state that I've ever experienced. Can you give me or if you care to share, can you give me something like let's just say on the O C D side where you were doing it previously, you had the treatments and now it's no longer examples. And I should say Your mileage will vary and the sample sizes are still very, very small for accelerated TMS, which is I'm an early stage guy too, right? Like I like to get involved, but there are many unknowns, many open questions. They're still in I wanna say

26:26 Sub thousands in terms of Subjects in some cases for say O C D it's probably fewer than Two hundred. would be my guess. I'm making up some of these numbers, but I don't think they're very far off. So there's still a lot to figure out. But

26:41 As an example, I've had Lifelong. onset insomnia where my brain will just not quiet down. You know my mind is like, I've been waiting all day to talk to you. You know. And it can take me an hour or two hours to fall asleep. In three months, that's effectively gone to zero. None of that. That's crazy. The best sleep I've had in a v in decades. Do you look at Aura data as well to see like am I getting the proper deep sleep? You know, I haven't gone super granular. I recognize the how that could be helpful in a sense, but I really feel like we can

27:19 out source our Awareness to Devices and metrics where it's it's pretty much it. If the if the effect size is large enough, it should be pretty obvious. And I will say there are some People who respond inversely to this.

27:37 Right, it can worsen some people's conditions. I've seen a number of lives transformed. We have the most data for depression by far. And If you talk to really competent, sophisticated psychiatrists who have looked keep abreast of the latest technology, they will say finally TMS is delivering on what we hoped it would deliver. Like the promise is finally Finally we're seeing some of the results we're hoping to see. So there's been so many devices, even at home devices that claim to do, you know, TMS.

28:08 But you can you can literally I've seen them on Amazon. But here's the the real question is like okay Obviously you did all the proper due diligence around figuring out who's the best of the best in this business that's actually doing the real science. How soon until that actually propagates out to clinics where you would feel comfortable saying, Okay, now's the time when the average person can go and do this. It's hard to say. I will say on a

28:34 widely distributed basis. But that's also like Uber Black got all this criticism early on. And then those people subsidized the development of UberX and Over time. Cost went down. Well, I would say it ranges at this point because insurance will not cover

28:52 Accelerated TMS. least as far as I'm aware. From Let's call it if we're looking at competent. Well trained outfits were vetted.

29:01 five to fifteen K for that five day period. But here's the thing. Depending on your conditions, depending on your resources If you were to ask me how much would you pay to go back twenty years and have this treatment, I'd be like, Take half my net worth. It's fine. That big a change. Now It's not a silver bullet, nor are psychedelic assistant therapies, by the way. It's not.

29:25 One shot, one kill with conditions. So Most people will go back for boosters every three to six Months for say a single day of treatment, not necessarily Five days. But

29:38 The When I say effect size, people can look this up, but the magnitude of change and durability is so far beyond. Pretty much any conventional treatment that I can think of. Especially if you exclude maintenance therapies that are really just covering symptoms.

29:54 Or suppressing symptoms. I'm very, very excited about this. In terms of time, I can't I couldn't tell you. I think that it will be more widely available at retail where people pay out of pocket. In the next six months. How will someone know if that has been the same thing that you're doing? Is there some type of like certification or what what do you look for? I've seen it being offered in various

30:19 Places I would look for people who have real clinical experience who are working with established hospitals and Have some bona fides. There's a lot of fly by night. TMS operations just like there are lots of rent to shamans on like Craigslist and Facebook.

30:37 Who did some weekend yoga course in Costa Rica and suddenly they're gonna save your soul. Probably not a great idea. Uh, similarly if it's like, Yeah, we run a you know dentist's office and we offer TMS, maybe you don't do that. Or like the people who are like, Oh, we will fix your nails and give you semi glutide like you mix in the bathroom. Like maybe you don't do that. So I think you know common sense applies, but It has been really fascinating. And the reason you don't want to DIY it, or one of the many, many reasons you don't want to DIY it, is

31:07 That You're dealing with some very sensitive circuitry. This whole thing in our heads, as far as I know, is powered on roughly The electricity of a light bulb. We really don't know how it works, how we're able to function at such a high level.

31:22 I suspect there are all sorts of and this is true for all factions, but like quantum effects and many, many complicated mechanisms that we just do not understand. And when you're applying a magnetic pulse to your brain. And this is simplified. But you're either Activating or deactivating.

31:40 enhancing or suppressing some degree of activity or a network of activity. And If you screw that up. you can get the opposite of what you're looking for. Is there any real time like feeling like when you're sitting there are you like

31:54 Seeing shit. Feels like someone flicking the side of your head. There are no visuals or anything, but you feel like someone's flicking the side of your head and each day you feel like you ran a mental ultra marathon. Like if you were cramming for the LSATs every day for fifteen hours straight, that is the degree of mental exhaustion. It's very tiring. Do you find that it's improved Your Cognitive tasks. Like are you like able to like is there any performance enhancing benefits to this as well? Well, I do think TMS is gonna be used for performance enhancement. I think it could be used for sports enhancement and many things. So I I do think, especially in the world of anti-doping and so on, that athletes are gonna start to use TMS pre-competition for enhancing who knows visual acuity reaction speed. That's gonna happen for sure. Like if you want to make people more susceptible to being hypnotized, you can use this. It's gonna get super wild really quickly.

32:49 I will say that one thing I have noticed On the plus or negative side, depending on how you look at it, is the I've been so much less productive in the last few months. You seem really chill right now. Yeah, super chill. Here's what I would say.

33:04 I wouldn't trade the productivity for my current A sense of calmness. And I was chatting with a therapist about this and they said well I think for a lot of people that anxiety is used as a fuel to work. To basically run away from things, not run towards things. And I was like

33:21 Yeah, I could see that. That doesn't seem shocking to me. So you know a question I've tried to ask myself with a lot of different projects is am I running away from something or am I running towards something? That seems a very important distinction. to make. And also another reason not to DIY this is in a lot of cases you're

33:40 Let's just say in the case of anxiety. So you have too much Fight or flight. Or freeze, let's just say. So you want to dampen that a little bit so you can move around without being a head case. Okay, great.

33:51 You still need some of that fight or flight in your life. So you can over dampen that. Or maybe you want to increase your parasympathetic response. This is gonna be very personal. I didn't really think I would talk about this publicly, but so there's a shorthand in medical school, they say Point and shoot. In other words, parasympathetic to get interaction, sympathetic to orgasm. Both of those are really important. So after I got my sympathetic

34:16 Smashed. I couldn't orgasm for like two weeks and I was freaking the fuck out. I was like did I just Completely screw up my hardware, like I'm never gonna orgasm again? That seems like a high tax to pay. Uh fuck. You know. Was the engine there. Scary moment.

34:33 Like you you didn't have a problem with the point. No. No, okay. It was just the the finish. So like that could freak you out. This is classic Tim Ferris, like early like trying the craziest shit. You know, I'm taking the bullets to other people don't necessarily have to. But these are all reasons why you don't want to buy a kit on Amazon and just start zapping your brand while you're watching Netflix. Yeah. Unless you're fast and you need to slow down. You know, and if somebody else wants to run that N one, like knock yourself out, then I'm not gonna do that. Yeah. All right. Anyway, moving on. That's so uh last question and then we can we can move on. Is there a website or anything where where you went? Like where did you go if someone's listening to this and they're like, I wanna go where Tim went. Yeah, I I mean this is where I would like to have and this is not

35:24 For Any reason other than I'm going to defer on that just because I want to have some more experience. Also I want to do a follow up. I wanna see what the durability looks like before I start recommending outfits. So I will do that. I'll have more to say about this, but for people who want to do a deep dive Dr. Nolan Williams and the podcast that I did with him touches a lot of this. I will also say just a quick note, which is

35:47 There are some theories around, say, depression, which are not chemically focused. So instead of like oh serotonin imbalance, this imbalance, which is a little antiquated in a bunch of sense is it's not that it isn't a non variable, but it doesn't seem to be the primary determinant. It could be that different structures in the brain are firing out of sequence. And you can use the TMS to correct that sequence. So instead of firing like BAC, it's like oh well let's slightly tweak that system so it's firing in what we see in normal healthies, which is A B C. Pretty interesting.

36:22 Yeah. To be able to basically just reset the the tripwire sequence. Something I think we'll be hearing a lot more about in the next handful of years. And it is better tolerated than most medications. Like from a risk profile perspective for most people, in very rare cases it can trigger seizures, like there are Adverse. Side effect. Potentials. But

36:44 For the vast majority. Very well tolerated. So I'm I'm excited about it because For instance, psychedelic assisted therapy is contraindicative for lots of people. There are many people who should not take this. Or engage in in that type of therapy. Too many risks involved.

37:00 People with say borderline personality disorder with family history of schizophrenia, et cetera. But they wouldn't necessarily be automatically excluded from Doing something like accelerated TMS. So that's exciting to me.

37:15 Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by AG1, the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole body health. And I do get asked a lot what I would take if I could only take one supplement. And the true answer is invariably AG1. It simply covers a ton of bases. I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me. On the road. So what is AG1? AG one is a science driven formulation of vitamins, probiotics, and whole food source nutrients. In a single scoop, AG1 gives you support for the brain, gut, and immune system. So take ownership of your health and try AG1 today. You will get a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs with your first subscription purchase. So learn more, check it out. go to drinkage one dot com slash Tim. That's drink AG One, the number one. Drink AG One dot com slash Tim. Last time, drink AG One dot com.

38:13 Slash Tim. Check it out. All right, we've got twenty two minutes left. What you got? They're cutting us off. So one of the things that dawned on me at South by Southwest, and I'm I'm curious uh to get a uh we'll do a poll at some point here, but one of the things that's really challenging

38:31 At least for me personally, is like when we go to these events or you go to events and gatherings, social gatherings I'm okay on stage and I'm okay interviewing folks, but I actually don't like social events. I get a little anxiety around them. And it's largely because it's like the tequila beforehand. Exactly. The social lubricant does help. But it it's largely because it's a lot of kind of like small talk, you know, like what do you do for a living like this and that, right? Totally. I had this fantastic guest, Charles Dohig, recently on the podcast just a couple days ago. Great author.

39:03 Yeah, fantastic. Called Superconnectors. How many people like have a hard time at e at events? Like raise raise of hands just at Curiosity. A lot of people. It's this challenging thing. And so those icebreakers and all that shit. I don't know what to say. And this author was fantastic. So Superconnectors is the book that I I just am in the process of reading right now.

39:23 And It's really about a couple of things. Like one How can you get to a deep conversation quickly? And then How to build trust.

39:34 with the person you're having a conversation with. And that can be used for relationships, like first dates. It can be used for eventually, you know, working business partnerships. How is trust actually formed in terms of social interactions? And a lot of it comes down to the questions that you ask and actually the follow up questions that you ask and then the reciting of what the person said to make them know that you actually heard what they were saying. And so it's just a fascinating fun topic. And I was just curious, like, is that something that like you've ever had issues with, or have you ever studied how to create these like lasting long bonded kind of like connections with other humans?

40:14 Yeah, I think about all the time. You really? Oh yeah, for sure. And I'm also I can pretend Where I'm safely at a distance talking to one person in front of a lot of people. But I am very introverted. You've seen this. Yeah. It's like if I'm at a big group dinner, I'll take twenty bathroom breaks. And it's not because my prostate is old, it's because I need to do Lamas breathing in the bathroom. Like Okay. I'm okay.

40:41 Yeah. And I can get back out there. So I've thought about this a lot because but what I've found also is that if you study this type of thing It makes you more comfortable and less overwhelmed in these circumstances.

40:56 So it is not only helping the person or making the person across from you feel more comfortable, in my case helps me feel a lot more comfortable. So what have you learned from this book? Are there any particular Yeah, I mean there's a couple of things. Yeah, one is you were a breakfast cereal, what would you be? The one thing that you do is you write down five things that you could talk about when you're at this event. Or questions that you might want to ask. And there was this research study that was done that people that wrote down these questions and they put them in their pocket. They never used the questions, but it put them at ease, knowing that they had the backups in their pocket, and then it led to more natural conversation. And then the second thing is just really going in and

41:41 Being naturally curious about the person and asking like if you were saying, Hey, I just tried this new brain stimulation technique, it'd be like, Oh, i i y that sounds really fun. Like that's a dead end to that, right? You would say, like, well I've read a little bit about this, but like Can you tell me more about how it's actually helped you and like you know you like what you just did. Yes, exactly. I was I was actually ninjing. But But it it is a w one thing where there's like these little tactics, but the interesting thing is you're not faking it. Cause I I the first thing I asked him, I'm like, Well, that feels like you're kind of faking it and you're just kind of like, Oh, I've got these tactics and I'm gonna go use these tactics. And he goes, No, once you start using these.

42:26 You build a muscle, you get comfort, and then it naturally just happens to where you can walk into a social setting. And you'll have that muscle and the comfort is there, the anxiety is gone, and it flips it from something that is like Should I go to this event or not? To like I can actually thrive at this event. Cause for me, you walk out of an event and I'm like, oh my God, I just ran a marathon, you know? Like you feel dr emotionally drained. And it turns it into something that is actually you probably have a friend where they walk out of the vents and you're like Gary Van Richard, like how the fuck does he do what he does? Like the dude kid's got batteries. Yeah. He's got different batteries. Different batteries. Yeah. And it's like you you watch someone like that and you're like, how do you feed off of that versus getting drained from it. And and it's there's a lot of tactics there. So anyway, I just want to throw it out as a as a fun book to to tune into. And it was it was a really fun podcast that we did.

43:19 It does Side note. Which is related to something you said about having the back up topics and then never using them. Yeah. A friend of mine, Neil Strauss, I've known forever, very funny, skilled author. He was also a journalist for a long time, interviewed

43:35 celebrities and politicians and so on. Of the era. And he would do tons of tons of prep. He would have all these questions written out on a piece of paper, he'd fold it up, put in his pocket, and never look at it for the interview. Yeah. It was just to have that confidence and comfort. If you hit a dead end, you've got something to fall back on, right? Yeah. And I would also say

43:56 Quite apart from that. Part of how I of resolve for myself some of the social anxiety. is just assume that anyone you meet, like everyone knows everyone. In the sense that if you go to a party with thirty people and you talk to one person

44:12 For the whole night. That is not a waste of time. Even if you misfire over time having that habit. It's a very small world. Oh, here's a good one. Speaking of talking to one person, have you ever found yourself in a conversation where you're like, I gotta get out of this conversation, right? You wanna move on to the next person? A board. Abort. This is a really good hack, actually. He told me he You wanted some heroin? And they're like, What exactly exactly You offer them heroin, they're like I'm gonna go that way. Um No, but you do. This is a a brilliant one. It was one of my favorite ones that he dropped on my podcast at kevinrose.com. Uh what he did is he said

44:49 that what you can do is What you wanna do is you wanna go in there and you wanna say hey, listen I have some other people here that I need to go have a conversation with, but I wanna ask you one more thing about what you were just saying. Because then it's not that I'm not interested in what you are saying. But tell me a little bit more about what was so interesting about you. Which is a really fascinating little happy. That's a good softening. Instead of like hey, my cat's on fire. I'm so sorry. Right, exactly. Yeah. I wanna give people a little Scooby Snack.

45:23 Which is totally unrelated to zapping brains or Point and shoot. This is if people want to hear something that ninety nine percent of you will hate. I give it to you anyway. This was I'll give credit to S. I'm not gonna mention her full name, but there's a band called Ginger, J I N J E R. This is a Ukrainian metal core band. It is super hardcore. The range is impressive. With the vocalists involved. It's very hardcore. But this is introduced to me and I've been listening to it. Pisces.

45:54 Let's start with that track. And uh so if you want something really strange. To listen to. You're welcome.

46:01 This is the random show. It's the random show. Gotta live up to the name. Okay, let me I'm gonna give you one then Sone. S O H N Ah yes, you artists. Underrated, I mean he's got some tracks that have like millions of views, but like underrated like Amazing music just to show to. So S O H N S O H N Also the name of a great finance conference. Unrelated. Okay. Android slash Gemini. I want to hear about this. Okay. I'll hit one real quick. You hit one real quick and then we're gonna we're come up on time. But You have 14 minutes. Yeah, it's true. Every six months I try to move to Android and I fail and it sucks. I I really want to do it and I get the phone and I'm like, okay, I'm excited. This is the first time where I install the beta for Gemini, and Gemini is their AI stuff, right? Their chat GPT competitor.

46:52 Gemini sucked like six months ago. I mean that like three months ago was horrible. It's gotten a lot better. No doubt. I mean it's Google, right? You're gonna throw some serious resources at this and figure out this problem. They did this update where you're you can actually integrate it into and replace the assistant on your phone now. Immediately the way that you can assign to the new Apple iPhone, you can take this new button that's in the corner, the action button, and assign it to chat GPT. I was very good. There were a few hallucinations. But it was pretty convincing up until the punchline. But the but the crazy thing is that for the first time I I realized that like

47:31 I can't move to Android full time because of the freaking Bubbles, the green bubbles. But aside from that I will say that it was providing me insights that were actionable relevant

47:43 And unexpected, which I thought was just fascinating. Like I'll give an example. I was supposed to head to the airport to catch a flight to come out here. And you know, I'm with my family, with my kids, I wanna say goodbye to my girls. Getting to LAX for my house is about an hour ish and change, you never know, right? And I got a notification, it was like, Hey, we saw on your calendar the flight, we know that with the time you have to leave, this is your check in, this is your carousel, and you actually have an extra thirty minutes. And I was like, holy shit, that was like all proactive, right?

48:11 And you know, you ask Siri something, you're like, hey, how many points did Steph Curry score last night? And like I'm sorry, I didn't get that. Yeah, or it's like here's your results from the web. And you're like, gee, thanks. Like Okay, I could have Googled that Siri. But like Gemini now is giving you all that shit in real time. And I'm like, it's on. Like Apple has to really go hard and as obviously they are on the they just haven't announced it yet, but it's getting pretty awesome. I'm excited for the future of of what this is gonna bring. Also translation and simultaneous translation of her conversation on Android is incredibly impressive. Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna get better. So this is a true story. Right now, yesterday I saw my podcast.

48:54 fullated into Spanish and Japanese. In my voice. And then I have another company.

49:03 That is doing the lips perfectly. And so now They will be released actually in all these other languages, and I'm imagining you're gonna be doing that too. That's surprisingly straightforward. every product and everything we do in the next two to three years. Yeah, I mean the

49:31 the sheer volume of content production is gonna be so outrageous that I think there are gonna be a number of Secondary and tertiary effects including I think the half life of fame is gonna go down. Dramatically. There's not going to be another Oprah who has command of or half of a country with a show like that and the decay rate's gonna be really fast, which I'm looking forward to personally, because public thing gets a little tiring. What do you think about Jake Paul and Tyson?

50:00 I've read some God. Okay. So if if we're gonna so Tyson's fifty seven years old. He's in incredibly good shape. Yeah. Given everything. Did you watch those clips of him like fight like punching the he's still got in the tight turquoise short. Yeah. Yeah. I hope he wears those shorts when he fights. So yes, I look, I don't want to fight Tyson. I have heard rumors they're going to require headgear and eighteen ounce gloves. That's bullshit. They can't do that. That gives too much advantage to the young buck with more endurance. I'd say if you're gonna fight Make it a real boxing match.

50:34 You don't ever have to podcast again. Two hundred million dollars, step in with Tyson. No Oh. Absolutely not. Dude, you wouldn't take two rounds. You take one punch from a professional fighter and the T B I you're not gonna be able to count afterwards. So Well you got your magnets and shit, you'll be fine.

50:54 Yeah, no. I I need no more head trauma in my life. I think Tyson's gonna kick his ass. Yeah, I mean my I I you know I I respect the guy'cause he went from YouTuber to like legit fighter. Like no doubt. He would make a very good He's a serious fighter. Yeah, he's he's a serious. I would say if it is to be a credible fight. No headgear. And regulation size boxing gloves.

51:21 Having spent some time doing this kind of stuff. Yeah. If you make them like the giant sumo costume like Protective. outfit. No one wants to watch that though. People will watch it. But if you have all those protective mechanisms in place, it discounts the power and it rewards the speed and endurance. And that's gonna favor it's gonna favor a younger fighter. Tyson's not gonna wear headgear, but he is.

51:47 I'm saying just the rumors I've heard is that both of them or both but that negates The advantage that Tyson has and should have in such a fight. Yeah. My opinion. Yeah. So Make it real. If you're gonna do it, make it a real fight.

52:02 So let's see. I wish we could do some audience questions, but we didn't set that up ahead of time. We didn't set it up ahead of time. So oh here we I got one we should touch on since we talked about point shoot. Do you want to talk about Kevin's deflated balls? That's my line item here. Yeah, we can thanks Tim. Uh appreciate that. So Well he he yeah.

52:25 I don't even go into this. So One of the things that I find fascinating is these GLP one inhibitors that they're going around the Ozempic and the Majaro. It's gonna change everything. They're talking about Honestly.

52:41 With as much weight loss as going to happen over the next decade, you know, the cost of flights will go down because there'll be less weight. To actually these are where they're going with this. It's insane. Yeah, a lot of the major retailers budgeting for decreased snack consumption. Yes. It's crazy. So One of the things that people don't know about this is that these started off not as weight loss drugs. I mean people probably know this, but as type two diabetes drugs. And so they're primarily used for glucose control

53:08 And one of the things that I've always had an issue with, I went to ATIA a decade ago and he tested also a great podcast. Yeah, fantastic. A Tia is great. The Drive podcast is fantastic. He maybe do something called the glucose tolerance test. You drink a big sugary drink and you watch how quickly your body can dispose of the glucose. Unfortunately, mine's really shitty. It takes me a long time to get the glucose out. And so these drugs were always interesting to me from that point of view, like how can I have better glucose control, largely because my dad died of a heart attack, my grandfather died of a stroke. That cardiovascular disease is rampant on my father's side. And so there's a twenty this is like data we asked Chat GPT earlier. Th it's real data though, you can go to the website, there's a twenty percent reduction in cardiovascular events for people that are on these drugs.

53:54 Even accounting for the weight loss. And so I tried it a long time ago with Tia. Just because I was curious, this was like You know, six years ago. And you definitely lose your beer gut, which is great, Drew, I see in the audience we we like our beer and our drinks. Drew's awesome. It does help on that front, in the vanity front, but like for me

54:16 I would wear a Dexcom and my my glucose was just like stable as hell, which was amazing. And I like the cardio protective benefits of it. I didn't want to stay on it because you lose muscle mass. Yeah, that was the question. Yeah, so ATIA started talking about this and saying, Hey, I don't put people on this because you lose muscle mass. So what do you have to do? You have to go and and do testosterone. Just to be clear, you lose muscle mass because you're not eating. So in which cases people are not consuming enough protein. Nor calories. Right. Exactly. So you're t you're not getting enough protein, so you lose muscle mass.

54:47 And so you can do testosterone replacement therapy to counter it. It's a whole mess, but If you do testos you've done testosterone replacement therapy. Did it post surgery. Yeah. I did the whole cocktail thing. No. You hang out with Arnold, dude. You never have a little It's not like we're having omelets and steroids for bread.

55:08 No. Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on this. But uh I think That post surgery for certain instances and so on. I think it's indicated. I think people need to be aware of the risks they're taking and post cycle therapy and various things that they need to take into account. Yeah, but well if you do it also you lose a lot of things down there. Like your balls shrinking. Yeah, they turn into raisinettes. Just as a side note. Yeah. So anyway it gets a balance. This longevity thing is a really tricky

55:38 thing and it the thing for me is like I've never wanna be someone that like I don't believe in like living forever. I don't wanna do that. I just wanna see my kids grow up. I'm an older dad. At the end if I die at seven or day like I still got all the proofs. I said you're an older dad. I am an older dad. No, I know. I have some catch up to too speaking of which you're you're No, you wanted to cover it, son. No. You're single. Yes.

56:04 Well I I actually hear some there's uh surprisingly some ladies in the audience, which is uh Which is amazing. Meet Tim Paris on the sign. He is signing uh books and No, um How's that going, dude? What's it like now these days? I mean look, anyone here who's participating in modern dating, I think would agree that it's pretty fucking bizarre. So look, there's some amazing people out there. It is also, I think depending on your standards, one of my friends, I won't name him, but he was like you and your standards. Yeah.

56:33 But if you have reasonable standards, it is like finding a needle in the haystack because you're starting from all the apps or all the humans in the world. So I think you need to have some pretty tight criteria if you're gonna make that Remotely Tacklable. Like it's like dating on one hand is very fun, and on the other hand it's incredibly exhausting. How low do you go, just out of curiosity. How low do I go? Yeah, like

56:58 I get how that could be taken a few different ways, but like Slow as necessary. Somebody's a fan. You got one taker. You got one taker later. That was quite the scream.

57:19 Like at your age, are you are you Uh No, are you are you go are you going like what is it, twenty seven, thirty, thirty two? I mean look, I I would say Oh God. All right. So I would say

57:35 Twenty eight. Plus is what I'm looking for. Like I want someone who has a reasonably formed identity and has demonstrated the ability to handle hard things in life. And So on and so forth. If somebody is still really on the path to establishing in their own minds who they are I think there's a lot of risk in that, right? Because people develop in different directions and it's good to see someone who's reached some

57:57 point of confidence in themselves and they have a degree of self awareness in who they are, what they like, what they don't like. Yeah. That takes time. I will say one one thing like behind. It could also be quite a bit above that. I'm not married to that, but I would say the lower back. But you also want kids. Also on kids, so that's a whole hot third rail that I'm not sure we want to touch. It gets people very upset. But yeah, like there are some biological realities for sure. One of the things I will say that I I I do really respect uh about you is like I I Had a chance to as have you to bump into a bunch of celebrities over our time and just mingling with folks. And when you get to a certain state of notoriety

58:35 It's easier to date. And one of the things that you've always said to me is like you want someone that is like challenging you intellectually. And you've always had these really high standards in all the right ways. Yeah. It's not necessarily like a

58:49 Canvassing mensa for my next chess partner type of situation. I like I don't wanna The last thing I want is to date me with long hair. Yeah, that's nightmare. Let me jump off a building now and like end it before it gets bad. What I am looking for is someone I can admire. Like there should be a mutual admiration and the reasons for that Can be many. But it's like Somebody that impresses you that you admire, which is very different from respecting, right? Like respecting can have a negative connotation or an obligation feel to it.

59:23 Whereas admiration, like you can't force that. Yeah. You can't do that because other people demand it. It's a very organic thing. So I'd certainly look for that. I'd say we're gonna get yelled at, but we can push a little bit. No, we can push. You guys okay with another five minutes? Alright. Alright, we'll go a little bit longer.

59:41 Uh To shift gears just a little bit, just because you mentioned something that has been on my mind a lot. If this might be helpful to anyone. Lifespan, life extension. in the water. A lot of people are talking about it. A lot of people are obsessing over it. And a lot of folks are mostly like tech males, if I'm being frank, but a lot of people are interested in not dying. So there is that.

1:00:05 But there's uh a lot of bandwidth, a lot of money being Allocated to thinking about life extension. And I would recommend we mentioned Peter Tia earlier, Outlive, his book talks a lot about Health span, not just life span. But On a very different level.

1:00:22 I've been thinking a lot about experiential lifespan. So I think most people in this audience have probably experienced varying degrees of time dilation where maybe you go on an extended hike, maybe you take a few days to do X, Y, and Z, maybe it was during COVID because of everything that was changing minute to minute where you have For periods of time an increased frame rate. It's like your normal frame weight and I'm making this up with like twenty four frames per second, but then you go to like

1:00:50 A thousand frames per second. And An hour or a day or a week and feel like months. So I've been thinking a lot about how you can engineer that and schedule that in your life. And if you

1:01:02 Say schedule three or four things that you know produces time dilation for you. If that say just based on the frame rate, right? Kind of expands your year. Experientially. To be an additional.

1:01:16 Three months. Even if you don't extend your max lifespan, you've extended your max experiential lifespan. Really significantly. So what's been your strategy for that?'Cause there are a lot of miserable fucks who want to live forever. I mean, let's be honest. I I hate to say it, but it's just like oh wow, you just want to make this painful journey as long as possible. Okay. Like that's one way to go about it. How do I want?

1:01:39 So what are your strategies for that? What is your like we all agree like as you get older, like it seems like time is just compressing and going faster and faster. Resonated with me, so Clearly, I recommend people check that out because I do think awe And there are assessments.

1:02:03 ranking your experience of awe in different environments, but it's worth thinking about Because I do think it correlates to This time dilation. There are a few things that hop to mind. For me. Exced time off the grid.

1:02:18 Yeah. Yeah. Being in seasonal environments as opposed to in one place, a Your experience in An equatorial place or someplace like Costa Rica, for instance.

1:02:31 for a lot of people is seems much faster. Time passes faster than it does in a place with seasons. as one example. Another would be The last year. Few months. I was in the mountains and I was skiing for half of each day.

1:02:48 And you're changing locations a lot. And people have probably experienced this, where if you're at South by Southwest and you change locations, you go to ten different places in one day, even if that's just eight hours, it feels longer than if you're sitting at your kitchen table pecking away at email. for that equivalent period of time. The experience of time is different. So changing locations, that's something you can very easily Plan into your life. There's certain states, of course. I mean I'm not gonna recommend this. It is Like I mentioned, contraindicated for a lot of people, but certain psychedelic experiences.

1:03:21 Certainly can produce this. But it's not exclusive to that. At all. If you've been, for instance, places that have a Pervasive feeling of vastness, for instance.

1:03:33 Montana. You go there, or Alaska, it just feels bigger, like the sky and everything seems vaster. And that has an effect. on your sensory experience. that changes, I think, for me at least, my perception of time. Lots of nonverbal stuff.

1:03:49 Interacting with animals. That's a whole separate conversation. I'm thinking of it. Yeah, yeah, my experience with the wolves, certainly. So there are ways that you can engineer this, but I think that the most practical way to go about it is just to look back at the last two years, identify where you experience these peak Moments of awe. and try to figure out what the characteristics are, the shared characteristics. I think this is a major unlock because frankly, humans have been trying to figure out the code of immortality and the fountain of youth forever. It hasn't worked yet. I hate to be the one to deliver the news.

1:04:27 And I'm I don't think we're gonna figure it out in the next fifty years. Maybe people say that's pessimistic. I think I would rather be pleasantly surprised when it works than to bank on it and have it not work. So in the meantime, there are some really straightforward things you can do. Let me throw out one last little hack before we go that is related to this. Have you had Sunil Gupta on your show yet?

1:04:50 No. He's he's awesome. He's f fantastic. Just human. And he wrote this book recently it's about the the wisdom of Dharma and ancient techniques, um tying back to India and how we can incorporate them into modern life. And one of the things that He did some research on was

1:05:07 These people that just have this energy that is is everyday They just keep going. energy and one of the people that is like this is Martha Stewart in her eighties. So people say that Martha Stewart now in her eighties has more energy than she did when she was younger. And they went back and they asked her, you know, what's the secret here? How'd you do this? And it's breaks in the day.

1:05:29 And it's like don't do back to back meetings, but taking ten minutes To go for that walk for the day, to break it up and actually You will D stress yourself.

1:05:41 And also the day will seem fuller and longer, but the interesting hack Was that If you ever say, Hey, we're gonna do a meeting, Tim and I, we're gonna jump on a call And You know what, I'm gonna end ten minutes early. It's gonna be from one to one fifty instead of from one to two. It never ends that way, right? You always go till two o'clock.

1:06:00 What he does is he starts his meetings ten minutes late. So the meeting starts Ten minutes after the hour. So he always gets that break. I thought it was brilliant and it's a he's it's another fantastic book to read. Yeah. To underscore that, I would say if you feel rushed, your time is gonna feel compressed. Right.

1:06:19 Seems kinda self evident, but it's taken me a lifetime to figure this out. So There are a bunch of things you can do. Like That's part of the reason, honestly. I don't think there's any magic to say transcendental meditation, but taking twenty minutes as a break twice a day. I do the way every day. Yeah, what does that force you to do? It forces you to realize that if I stop for twenty minutes twice a day, my world does not completely fall apart. And you end up feeling less rushed.

1:06:45 And I think it's that cumulative enforced realization as much as the mantra and all this other stuff. That is so helpful for folks. So it's helpful for me, at the very least. Anything else I think Yeah, I think that's it. Uh we should plug the way though our our friend Henry's meditation app. It's a great ten minutes a day to spend. Henry's got a great uh meditation app that's Yeah, Henry is super legit. He's been uh on my podcast twice. He's been on your podcast. Henry Shuckman S H. U K M A N also. I guess that's it. Yeah, thank you everyone. Thanks everybody.

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