Carlton Calvin: Razor. The wild rise, collapse, and reinvention of a mobile toy empire.

0:06 Wait, so in June of two thousand you were selling a million a month? Yes. And January of two thousand one You couldn't sell one the s the sales stopped? Yes. Doesn't make sense. It makes no sense. It doesn't make sense unless you understand crazes. It's happened to me so many times.

0:21 And No matter how many times the retailers go through this, no matter how many times I went through this, everybody's thinking to themselves, this time is different. Yeah. Like this time, it's gonna sell a million a month for the next three years. And they can't even just do simple math that there's not that many people. Welcome to How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements. they built.

0:55 I'm Guy Roz, and on the show today, how Carlton Calvin helped turn a craze into a classic toy and built a massive company around scooters, hoverboards, and bikes. Razor. In the summer of two thousand. Kids all across the US couldn't get enough of one thing. Scooters, but not the clunky ones you might remember. These were sleek, made from aircraft grade aluminum.

1:25 They had polyurethane wheels that glided far and fast, and the scooter was compact enough to fold up. And carry anywhere. They were called razor scooters, and within months, demand was out of control. A million scooters a month were rolling out of a small warehouse in Cerritos, California, and at the center of it all was a man named Carlton Calvin. Carlton didn't invent the scooter. That credit goes to Gino Tsai in Taiwan, along with his partner Robert Chen. But Carlton helped launch the razor in the US.

2:00 And he knew how to make it a craze, because he'd been chasing toy crazes for years. He tried yo-yos, he sold fingerboards, he was in the pogs and slammers business. Carleton understood something important, and it was almost intuitive. Kids are loyal to a toy one minute. and then abandon it the next. And his business was all about timing. Spot the craze, ride it high, and then scramble before it fizzles out.

2:28 But Razor was different. It was bigger, faster, and hotter than anything he had ever touched. But just as quickly as it rose. It collapsed. Sales dried up.

2:40 Almost overnight. But Carlton hung on. And slowly rebuilt Razor into a bigger brand. Razor became more than a craze.

2:51 It grew into a powerhouse. Manual scooters, electric scooters, bikes, hoverboards, even a skateboard that twisted and swerved called the ripstick. But before all of that happened, Carlton grew up in St. Paul, Minnesota in the 60s and 70s. His mom was a schoolteacher and his dad was an entrepreneur who started out in direct mail. Carlton went to law school, but he hated it, so in his early 30s, he decided to pursue another interest.

3:21 Becoming an entrepreneur. Himself. You know, always wanted to be an artist. Believe it or not. And I made that pitch to my wife. But I also felt You know, like I needed to earn some money.

3:31 And so I thought I'll work with illustrators and do children's books. So I thought of this idea called Masterpiece Fairy Tales. Where I would Tell the classic

3:42 Fairy tales, but I would take the paintings of the great Like impressionists and retell the story in their style. So it might be Van Gogh told the story of Puss and Boots. You know. And you'd find an artist to kind of to to paint. I found really great artists. Who could paint in the style of these famous painters.

3:59 Now you could do all that on Chat GPT. You just say, pay me Puss and Boots in Van Gogh style. And it would do it. Yeah. All right. So you so you're gonna come up and that's great because the all these stories are not, I mean, they're in the correct public domain. So you could have a fairy tale book and hire some artists and Uh, and you get a children's book. Okay, that's an did you pitch this idea to anybody? I um so that the problem was I didn't understand business at that point. At all. But I did get I got a lot of meetings out in New York. It was very fun. I ran, you know, went to the big beautiful publishing houses. And I now I know that what you do when you have an ideal diet that is you print up the books and you go to the book shows and you start selling them to the bookstores and you build a teeny little company that eventually gets big. Did not understand that at that time.

4:46 But while I was doing it I Um was working with illustrators, and some of the illustrators were um involved in this craze called pogs and slammers. And that's what got me interested in pogs and slammers. Okay, so g let's wind back for a sec. You you are pitching a a fairy tale book idea. Yes and you get interested in pogs and slammers, which we will explain what those are in just a second. Okay. Before we do that

5:12 I know I'm trying to understand the connection between pitching a book a Puss in Boots with Toulouse Latrec style artwork. And pogs and slammers. So the the connection is the illustrators that I was working with. were getting work.

5:29 As illustrators for the Pox. I see. And they said this thing is going crazy. Okay, let's let's pause and explain what these are. These are they're like Like poker chips, like wafer sort of lar like cardboard wafer Poker Chips. Exactly right. They that you would do what with? It's like the game of marbles.

5:49 So Pog stands for pineapple orange guava. Started in Hawaii. And they would put this these are the caps that would go on a bottle. And to keep it sanitary. So they're discs. And it's just like marbles. One kid comes with five pogs and another kid comes with another five. They stack them in a stack. And then there's something heavy.

6:14 Which is a separate item called a slammer. What does it look like? You throw it at the stack. And cause the discs to flip over. And the ones that flipped over in your direction.

6:30 You'd call one or heads or tails and you'd then collect all the pods that we've got to do. It's a version of gambling. And I r I remember this is in the nineties. I mean I was already And you know. leaving high school and getting to but I remember seeing Kids playing with these my little brother actually would so this just went wild. Yes, explosive, but at this time, so many of the crazes that were sweeping across the country would start in Los Angeles. So very fortunate.

7:03 Alright, so you see you're talking to artists and they're like, Yeah, we're just we're making art for these things called POGs, and you're thinking Oh, this is interesting. So what what did you do? The next step was I wanted them to make pogs for me. So I was gonna have them illustrate and I was gonna print the pogs and I was gonna sell them. But while I was doing that, uh my wife is also a lawyer. Um, and we were driving through Arizona. to go on a case and I was help you know, just going along for the ride.

7:36 And you stop at the rest stops and they sell these paperweights. with real scorpions embedded in plastic. Yeah. And they're like domes. And I looked at it and Mine.

7:49 I I got an idea. Which was Yeah, you could make a slammer, one of these bigger discs. I bet I could embed a scorpion in clear plastic and kids could throw it at these discs.

8:02 So the scorpion slammer. Yeah, the real scorpion inspired by the scorpion paperwing. That's right, called Stinger. Stinger was my brand name. Okay, so you're so this is like a light bulb moment that goes on. Light bulbs ro on this road trip and Okay, but now you've gotta find somebody who is going to First of all, you gotta get the scorpions. And then you gotta figure out how to embed them in plastic and then you gotta find somebody to make it for you. So let's break this down a little bit. What did you Than do.

8:31 So I turned the paper mate weight over and I saw they put their brand their their company on the back. Just just the name. Mac. I still remember it. This is You know, thirty years later. And Um I thought, you know, I'll call them up and ask ask them to make these discs for me. Right. You know, be no problem.

8:49 Uh I call them up. They said we're not there's no way we're gonna make these discs for you. But we can sell you some scorpions if you want to try to figure out how to do it yourself. So I ordered I got a hundred scorpions in a little jar of alcohol. Came in the mail, or UPS. And um I went into my garage. I was renting a house in Pasadena. went into the you know, from uh old Craftsman house Happen to have a garage, classic, started my business in the garage story. Went in there for six months. My wife thought I was crazy, trying to figure out it's not trivial, how to get a scorpion inside a little plastic disc. And so what would you do in your garage? Were you like melting plastic and pouring it into mold? Oh, it's so it's so cool. Uh first of all, I did all the reading I could and I went down to the

9:37 Natural History Museum in LA where they actually embed specimens in plastic. And I talked to them and I checked out a book from the natural library on embedding specimens in plastic. But of course they're not making there's a there's a couple of problems. One is I wanted mine to be Shatterproof. And

9:55 Like the globes and other things are not shatterproof. So I did research on materials I called Actually industrial chemical companies in LA And Arrived at polyurethane as the kind of plastic that wouldn't break. But all kinds of problems, just like you might imagine. The first problem was You know, scorpions

10:14 If you don't dry them out, took me a long time to figure this out. they turn white and you can't see the scorpion. So then I took I went to Goodwill. And I uh But like

10:27 Five or six Old ovens. And I then put light bulbs to heat them. And then I would desiccate the scorpions inside dry them out. Dry them out. Under low temperatures. Under low temperatures, light bulb temperatures. And then I'd pour the rest of the plastic on top. And that's how you got a dish. Wow. So it's so all right. So eventually I'm assuming you figure out how to how to make it this. Yes. Okay, six months.

10:51 So you you successfully figure out how to embed a scorpion in polyurethane as a slammer for pogs. And Then what? This is when I started to behave like a regular business person. Somehow gradually I learn about business. I went to a toy show, the Pomona Toy Show, which, you know, back in the olden days,

11:13 They used to be small toy stores. And in order to buy toys. Toy toy stories would go to these toy shows. There was one in Pomona, major one in the west for the West Coast. And I rented A corner of a booth.

11:27 Well I mean like a tenth of a booth. And I had one aquarium with This

11:34 All total of six scorpions that I made. That I never figured out how to make in this in a little aquarium. And I was You know, talking to people, people were walking by and a guy walked by who was a happened to be in the pog and slimer business, was a toy distributor, and he said

11:52 If you don't Leave this. And you sign an exclusive contract with me, I'll buy two hundred thousand of these at three dollars apiece. Wow, who was this guy? Um, Mickey. Uh he had a he had a warehouse in commerce, big big toy distributor. Most of toys, you know, there was a whole there's a whole business back then of importing toys from China that were kind of unbranded and like talking parrots and all kinds of stuff he'd and he would do that. That that was his job. But you know, the the the pog and slammer business was again an open system and everybody was getting into it and he was in it in it too.

12:32 So he said he s he loved these so much he was like, I want an exclusive deal, I'll order$200,000 these at what price? At three dollars apiece. So six hundred thousand dollars was my first sale ever in business. And and he was gonna manufacture them? Nope. I said he needed you to figure that out. Yeah, he I gotta I gotta figure them out. And I didn't have any money. So he I said, But did you even know that that like That you could make them I mean you know you know how much it was gonna cost. It might have g it might cost you a million dollars. You had no idea. I I had never bought a scorpion before. I I knew a little bit about how much the plastic costs. But I figured you know but but that was it. That was my only cost that I knew. But I wouldn't even even at that age, it's just so hard

13:16 to remember how naive I was and I didn't even understand what margin was or how much you need to manufacture something. And so I I just went ahead at that point. But I didn't have any money. So believe it or not, the world is a great place. He wrote me a check for$75,000 that day. On the spot. On the spot. On my face. As a deposit. As a deposit. So that I could open up a factory, try to figure out how to make them. So all right, so you get this deal It's amazing. It's amazing that a Scorpion embedded in polyurethane.

13:48 Ca but yeah, I mean th these slammers were going l crazy. Kids were buying these cardboard pods and And the slammers. I know what ten year old boys like. is really the answer. It's just like irresistible. How did you develop that?

14:01 That Talent. I think that's inborn. And that that is like the secret is that I didn't stray too far. From

14:11 what I am. Like I am a ten ten year old boy. My favorite story is I got into trouble while I was a law clerk.

14:22 'Cause I snuck into my Judge's chambers in the middle of the night'cause His um He had the most powerful computer to do video gaming on. You know, I just

14:33 Have a ten year old boy's mind f for the longest time. And so I have a sensibility about you know, naughty, dangerous Things or in like like scorpions. That the

14:45 Boys like. Okay, so you so now you've got a seventy five thousand dollar check. You're in LA. Yes. How are you gonna make these th how you gonna make two hundred thousand of these things. I mean I didn't know so, but I began to go look for a warehouse near my house in South Pasadena. Uh where I could set up a factory.

15:04 But the bigger problem was I immediately called Mac. And said I need two hundred thousand scorpions. And They said

15:14 No, no, you completely misunderstand the scale of our business. Like we go out with our kids at night in the desert with black lights. Yes, and turn over rocks and grab scorpions. Like I could maybe eventually get you a hazardous job. It is a hazardous job. Fun, but hazardous So they're saying to you, hey Th we can't give you a two hundred thousand scorpions? So w what what do you I mean this is what this is like nineteen ninety two, nineteen ninety one or something? Uh nineteen ninety five, I think. Ninety five nineteen ninety five.

15:51 I mean really kinda pre pre internet. I mean the internet's around, but not not It was definitely pre internet for me. Like I had no notion of intermediary email at that time. So what are you gonna do? You gotta get two hundred thousand scorpions. Quick. So I

16:06 Had a Chinese friend. And they said we eat Scorpions in China. Or they eat scorpions in China. And I figure if they're gonna there's a lot of people in China if they're eating scorpions, at least a lot of scorpions. So I I went down and at that time There was something called the Hong Kong Trade Council in downtown Los Angeles, and I went physically down there.

16:30 And talk to them. And they gave me a and and again, this was at the early days of China turning into a market and they had Um You know they they had people who were importing products from China on a list. And they gave me a hand you know a print out.

16:48 You know, of a with a dot matrix printer. of a list of Chinese importers I called I had twenty of them I called them all Yeah. I only found one that could find me scorpions, but he did. Wow.

17:01 Obviously these are dead scorpions are gonna be sent. Yes. And it but just out of just a c I out of curious, w Was it gonna cause a a a problem or challenge? Like is it hard import? Uh two hundred thousand. I didn't even Think about it. Like I didn't even understand, like oh whoa.

17:19 Are they gonna be be annoyed that there's scorpions coming into the space? You know, and they put them in like Gasoline jugs. Filled with alcohol to preserve them. And I suppose it makes them food safe, too, for how they eat'em in China. That's how they transport them. Um yeah, yeah, no, I I

17:37 I didn't ever happen with customs with the that I remember. So you found somebody who's going to uh enable this and and do you remember how much it was per Scorpion? Yes. And of course the a little bit interesting. Um, I think they started at like seven cents a scorpion. But as I got more popular And they wanted to order more, the price rapidly increased.

18:00 Wow. So Okay. Yeah so it started at seven cents for two hundred thousand scorpions. And then and then who was gonna you get the scorpions, but who was gonna manufacture the discs? So then I ask my Chinese friend. To help me find You know, employees.

18:19 And she did, and um I hired her to sort of supervise them and I opened up this Chinese scorpion factory in in in Southern California. A warehouse and you put what in there? Tables? You were you were gonna hand make two hundred thousand of these? We handmade two hundred thousand in America. How is that possible? Like you hand poured the polyuran and that's right. I how many you you just hired a bunch of. I had like seventy five Scorpion arrangers. And then I took bakery.

18:53 Um rats. And converted them into makeshift ovens with light bulbs. With like Insulation on the outside of a bakery rack. And I would stick bakery trays in there of scorpions. It was Wild. You know.

19:09 Alright, so you how long did it take you to make two hundred thousand discs, do you remember? It probably took three months. Three months to fulfill this order and you deliver it to this guy. Yes. As they came off the rack. And where is he selling them? Global all over all around the country. Just a toy store. Yes, and everybody, a lot of people knew. Well, toy stores everywhere. Magazine shops. I mean it was a it was a craze. So they had these, you know, pods and slammers almost at newsstands and any anywhere. And how d and I'm assuming these these slammers did well. They did great. Everybody knew about the Scorpion Slammer and it said stinger on the side. I I had it engraved into the mold. So it was really cute. And was that the name of your company, your business? Did you file like an LLC? No, it was Small Minds Press. So oh that so it was still part of the original. I mean of the idea I had an L C that was all set to make children's books. Books. Yeah. Okay, Small Minds Press was making these so now you have

20:08 You're you're like you get a taste of what it's like to have cool and and did he order more? I mean, was that it? Just two hundred thousand. So this is And then The day I delivered the last Scorpion. The pog craze collapsed. They're like nobody nobody was buying bogs and slammers in. Not it just stopped. It stopped. The whole industry shut down.

20:30 Immediately. Like in a matter of hours. It's wild. It's it w it was like the hottest thing. Yes. And you probably, you know, cleared uh your margins were probably pretty good. Yes. You probably you probably cleared like three, four hundred grand on that. Maybe yeah, maybe two hundred thousand dollars. Yes. Okay. Yes. But that was it. But of course I was naive.

20:51 And I thought, Oh, this goes on forever. This is my first craze you know, so I I'm say I'm selling You know, seventy five thousand Scorpions slammers a month, I need to order like And that

21:04 And the price of the scorpions went up. So all my profits were tied up. And Yeah, I see. So you basically took the cash and ordered more as you d as you would. Yes. But you didn't you you could not sell those. No zero sales.

21:21 So you were you left with a surplus of scorpions or or slammers or both? Yeah. So I had scorpions. Lots and lots of scorpions and lots and lots of employees that I was very sad and didn't want to let go. How many scorpions did you like a a couple hundred thousand at least. What did you do with them? So No, I d I did not know what to do with them, honestly. And again, humiliated in front of my wife, you know, this is like oh my God, you all your profits. Like where's the money, guy? And and so I I Took them and

21:55 Um started to just like make Um Keychain. And you know, for like I was back in you know, back in the market where I saw

22:04 max paperweights. I was in s you know, Arizona selling scorpion keychains, you know, by the hundreds. You know, was a really sad moment. For my career. But while I was in the process of making these scorpion keychains and anything else I could think of with a scorpion in it. I Was in M Pasadena.

22:29 And I walk to a shop and it like a random shop was selling yo-yos. And I'm like Wow, that's kinda weird. Weird because yo-yos were like a fifties thing or something like that. Yeah, or just like it's not a toy shop. You know, that that's a good sign for a craze. Like yeah, I didn't explain that. Yeah, it was like a random I don't even know what kind of shop it was at this point, but they had some yo yo's. And they had like a hundred dollar aluminum yo yo and

22:53 You know, it just like seemed like wow, that's interesting. And then I got the idea. I could put A um Scorpion in a yo. In a yo-yo. Yes. Yes. Now at that was at that point, it was just I didn't understand it was a craze. But I understood that it would just be like keychains. Like it would be another thing that I could be doing to get rid of my two hundred thousand.

23:15 Scorpion. I did. And I didn't have a way to make the yo yo, so I started to make the yo yo itself. In China. But I still embedded them in my factory in South Pasadena. I see. So you get the yo yo' made in China and then you would you would sort of

23:32 P put the polyurethane disc, basically the slammer into the younger. Essentially, yes. I mean I pour actually pour the the the polyurethane into the yo yo and then put a scorpion in there, bake the yo yo, the whole thing. And It turns out that y we were On the cusp at that time. of the greatest yo yo craze in the history of yo yo's. Wait, why? What happened? Uh

23:56 There was a guy Who invented something called the brain. Which was a yo yo. That um Was a hitek yo yo that could sліp.

24:06 Which means spin at the end of the string automatically. Without any talent. Yes. That is the essential move of Yo Yo Dom. If you're an old school yo yo, you would need to learn how to make it sleep. But this would sleep automatically. And caused a huge explosion of interest'cause everybody could look like a pro. All of a sudden every kid wanted a yo yo. Yes. And And and there was that's exactly right.

24:30 But you were not making the sleeper yo-yo. You were just making a regular young. But but again, I wasn't making the original pod, but I was involved in a major craze that's sweeping through the culture. Ten year old again, 10 year old boys. And I went to like the s there was a science store from public Television. Um that was in the malls at that time. And

24:52 A scorpion yo yo was perfect for them. And so that was my first time I ever sold directly to a major account. So how did you have I mean, with the Pogs and the Slammers, you had a guy who bought You know, who bought them from you and then distributed them, but now you had the yo yo. So uh I'm assuming you had some connections in the industry at this point where you could find Somebody willing to buy it. buy them and distribute them.

25:18 Uh you know, I just was learning how to be in business. So at this point I personally Contacted the buyer at the science store. And then somebody told me. that you can't do all these sales yourself. You know.

25:32 You can't expect to do well if you're just gonna call the buyers at the major stores. You need a you need an organization and you need you need sales reps, essentially. And I hired a sales manager. And that's what transformed my business. Yeah. So you hire a sales manager to basically go directly to these retailers. That's right. And actually hire a group of reps that would go to all the retailers in the country. Put a nationwide sales network together for me.

25:59 Overnight. Basically sales reps know people all over the country. And so I uh Scorpion, you it turns out you don't just have to sell them to Science stores. They also sell extremely well in Toys R Us. So I for started to get my big My first big customers, and I sold millions. of Scorpion Yos globally.

26:19 Wow. It was crazy. And Toysara still in nineteen in the late nineties was was probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest distribution channel. Absolutely. I think for a long time they were my biggest customer Even for the rate scooters and stuff like that. I I remember as a kid in the eighties being taken to Toys R Us, you know, and it was like Magic. You know, it's just a magical store. Wandering through those aisles and looking at all the toys and it was like

26:47 One of the gr that and a happy meal and McDonald's like were two and I didn't get them very often. It was just amazing. Amazing. Yes, and it's a great sadness. That that we don't have a specialty toy store nationwide anymore. All right, so you get these yo yo's, these scorpion yoyos, and and w what? Like all of a sudden your basically your gamble on all these scorpions pays off. And I have to order more. Absolutely. I have to order many more after millions of scorpions and the price keeps going up with the scorpions and I have these all these employees and still making them in a a warehouse.

27:22 That I could never get anybody else to make'em. Never could figure that out. You know. Um So I was yes, I was in South Pasadena and selling millions and millions of scorpions, but knowing at by this time that I needed to be careful.

27:39 Because you knew that the craze would end. Yes. Eventually it my theory is everyone gets it. You don't you can't s sell You know. infinite number of yo yo yo's to the same people essentially so already once those those yo yo's went and they sold they sold well extremely well order reorder reorder reorder yep so you were like making pretty decent money already yes at that point I was on paper making lots of money More than I way more than I would be as a lawyer. Right. And I'm very grateful to my wife for her patience because she was a lawyer. That meant I could reinvest all the capital to keep the business growing.

28:25 So I didn't really wasn't really able to take out. A big salary, or any salary, really. Alright, so you are You know that This is not gonna last. And and does that mean you're already starting to keep your eyes peeled for what the next thing Absolutely And and what were you doing? Were you just uh reading, looking, like going I don't know, what I don't know Honestly, I don't know.

28:49 Why? This is part of my personality. Like, I don't know exactly why, but I'm just Just keeping the only way you can describe it is keeping your eyes open and talking to everybody and seeing what's happening. And

29:02 Somбі I met Introduced me to somebody who was selling something called fingerboards. Oh yes. And People know them today as Tac tac.

29:16 Yeah. Yeah, as I'm gonna do it. They're like little skateboards, that plastic skateboards. Miniature skateboards. That's right. And you d you'd use your fingers to like You know, play with them. I remember my nephews used to play with them. Yes, exactly right. And they still do. Movement. First You know, it was just

29:38 Kids doing it. With Cardboard cutouts of skateboards. Then the person that I met Had the idea.

29:45 to brand them. He had arrangements with all the skateboard companies to put the branding of the skateboard. In the Fingerboard. And they were called fingerboards. But the person that invented it didn't have access

30:00 to major companies like Toys are us in Walmart and all that kinda stuff. And I did. So we struck a deal. And I manufactured them.

30:09 And these are just finger skateboards. Finger skateboards at first. This was a major craze. And of course You know, by this time I learned about product differentiation. So I made all kinds of like parts of the street landscape like

30:23 Barrels. fifty five gallon drums and little barrels and street cones so that kids could fantasize playing. with their fingerboards. And then I also um branched out into things like um BMX bikes and surfboards and pretty much any other extreme sport. I would go and get a famous brand.

30:43 And put it on it and You know, sell it. And w where were you manufacturing these? China. The guy who made the yo yo's was my connection and he started to make all this stuff for me. It was

30:54 Again, they were flying off the shelves. And I had, of course, the original brand name, which was Fingerboard. Tactic came out as a competitor. And they were more authentic looking. Than mine. At the time.

31:05 You know, I had the original Old school one. And they had a sort of more authentic looking piece. This is the company's called Tech Tech? Yeah. It was called Tech Tech. Now it's owned by Spin Master, who are good friends of mine. And they basically kinda copied the idea. Yes.

31:23 I mean you had this pro these products, did they Kind of take your market share. They did. Yes. I had a niche.

31:32 But they were far more experienced and advanced. in the toy business than I was and had deeper relationships with all these retailers. And At the time they sent around a letter saying that I was infringing their intellectual, even though the exact opposite Was true.

31:47 In you know. It was really so it was really dirty. Yeah actually my my understanding of the world. Alright, so you're

31:55 you're pushed kind of pushed out of this business. A little bit. But I also knew that Whatever the situation is, it's not gonna last forever because it's such an amazing craze. Carlton, let me ask you a question. Yes. Did you ever get

32:09 Like already at this point. Were you thinking in your mind, I have got to find something that is more long lasting, like a more enduring toy. No. No. I mean it. I I just couldn't This is how I thought toys were.

32:22 Period. This is I mean, this is my only niche and I was just moving a millions miles An hour. And it was emotionally. Draining.

32:32 To have your whole business collapse. Every year. Or year and a half. So at any moment I thought this whole thing is gonna just stop. You know.

32:42 The whole business. Yes. Absolutely. It was terrifying. When we come back in just a moment, Carlton goes through yet another boom and yet another bust. This time.

32:57 With the Razor Scooter. Stay with us, I'm Guy Roz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So it's nineteen ninety nine and Carlton has lost his grip on the fingerboard craze. And he's looking for an idea that could be just as popular. So I'm reading an article in the LA Times, and there's an article about adults in Japan.

33:37 In Tokyo. Writing Scooters called the Razor Scooter. And I thought to my immediately thought to myself. Well I'm in the craze business.

33:48 And I also make miniature Extreme sports items This is gonna be my ticket to kill Yeah. Tac tech. You know, I'm gonna be the guy that gets the razor scooter.

34:00 License to make miniature Razor Scooters. It w because I I just know this is gonna I sense this is gonna Come to the United States and be huge. And so somehow

34:11 I got the telephone number. Of the company J D You know, JD Scooter Company. You know, that was making these scooters, invented the scooters. And these were making they were making them in China? China.

34:25 And they were called razor scooters, they were called everything. But they're the br when they started, they put a name on the ones that were coming directly from them. But they were uh Chinese factory. So they would make Under they were made under many different brands for in Japan already. And already they were getting orders from other people. You know, I'm not the only guy. For sure that once something is super hot in Japan, they figure this is coming to the United States. Yeah.

34:52 Okay, but to be clear, your your vision was was not to import these these these ride on scooters, right? It was to have the company that makes them make miniature versions, like mini like a miniature Razor. Exactly right.

35:07 But then I I guess there uh must have been a point where you're Uh we're thinking. Wait a minute, I'm I'm focusing on the wrong thing here. Like why don't I why don't I just sell the actual scooter, like the life sized version? Absolutely. for the first time in my life. I was not going to be somebody participating in a craze.

35:26 I had the Notion that I could be the craze. You know, and that was it. I had this like Like I why should I make a uh a knockoff, essentially, of a razor scooter? I you know, knockoff is a Not a very nice word. Like my Scorpion Yo Yos weren't really knock off of yo they're they're innovative, blah, blah, blah, but they were still just participating in a craze, not owning a craze.

35:49 Right. Right. Okay. So you you decide to sell the actual scooter. in the US and Uh from from what I gather, like to get the ball rolling on this You connect with with two guys who will soon eventually become your business partners, starting with

36:03 Uh, there's a guy in LA is a guy named Robert Chen. Uh and h who exactly was Robert? So he was an inventor. And he was doing folding bikes that he invented. So he had a warehouse in Cerritos, which is where our headquarters is now, and also was getting interested in, you know, helping Gino with the razor scooter. business because it was just going crazy in Japan already. Gino Tsai.

36:33 A genius. Amazing human being. Wonderful human being too. um who was the inventor and the creator and the original Razor Scooter guy.

36:44 Right. Gino had been an entrepreneur for he he he and Robert are older than me and they had been entrepreneurs for longer. He didn't waste time going to medical school. I mean law school. And you know, so they knew business. He had maybe 10 different companies at that time. He was he was a wealthy man already. So what I mean why would I mean you already had some experience clearly with the yo yo's and the pogs and the and the

37:10 How did you convince them to give you the license? No, this is a great Question. I mean, this is this is like an amazing part of Like

37:21 how this happens. I mean Basically. It was based on trust. And Robert. Is

37:28 Like I want it I it's hard to express how good a person and honest Robert is. And Geno two.

37:37 And we all and I like to think of myself that way too, and we got And Robert and I had an immediate connection. And You know A lot of untrustworthy people were approaching him.

37:49 Yeah, not with the and also they didn't have this grand vision. Yeah, the grand vision is Stop what you're doing, which is a big risk on their part. And own a brand.

37:58 Uh and a and the brand is everything. I I mean I clearly Like in any mi number of people. I had my relationships with Toys R Us at Walmart and Amazon. Uh Target, you know, all the players, and I could bring them to the stores. But but of course they were not selling to the stores. They were selling to distributors.

38:16 And so I was gonna get them wholesale prices. Instead of them selling it through a middleman. Who then sold it to Toys R Us or Walmart. So there was a big opportunity to capture more profit for them. But the big концеп.

38:30 was Branding. You know, and and building a company for the future. So instead of just being a white labeled you know scooter, we're gonna call it Razor and you were gonna get the license for North America? Globally. Globally. We and it wasn't a license. I w I be I went into partnership with J D C

38:50 It was a partnership. So you become a partner. Did you have did you have to buy into it? For not nobody had to put any capital in. My businesses tend not to be in capital intensive, but y you know, you'll appreciate this. Business people appreciate this. A business of this size that we formed would ordinarily require a lot of capital.

39:12 But we were in very unique times and it's exclusive to crazes. But These Toys are Us and Walmart were paying C O D for scooters to me. Wow. I know you would get paid to on delivery not ninety days later. Not ninety days later, not five days later. How? How they needed them. They wanted them.

39:33 And And That's I never could believe it, but I that's how I financed the company. But this is before you when you I mean when you Got that when they agree to work with you, you still have to pitch it to Toys R Us. So what, did you go where was Toys R Us headquarters at the time?

39:48 Uh New Jersey. So did you fly to New Jersey with one of these things? Absolutely. Yes. And right away they were like, We're in? Yeah, no this is the biggest craze. Like and maybe they were already being sold by knockoffs even faster than Razor could get into the market in the US. They might have been being being sold.

40:07 In like convenience stores in LA. You know, just like the Pogs. Like they're in and and certainly as it progressed. It got to the point where you could go to a pizza shop and they'd be selling s knock off scooters. Not razor scooters.

40:22 Right. So your pitch to toast roses, we get these in fast At at scale. That's right. We've got the manufacturing capacity. From the original. You don't have to deal with these knockoffs anymore. Right. Yes. And Toys R S says, All right, we're gonna order these we we're gonna put in an order and we want them in all of our stores. Absolutely. How long between the time that that That you get You know, the green light.

40:46 Until the time they're actually delivered. Was it quick? Yes, I think they were like no, like a month. Wow. Yes. They were just Cranking them out in China. Yes. Yes, in anticipation.

40:58 And they shut down all these other, you know, customers. So they didn't have to make them and slap all these other weird brands on them. They could just put Razor on all of them and ship them to me and I would ship them to Toys R Us and the other retailers. Did you need a lot of employees in the US to make this happen? I immediately scaled up to a real company. From three I had three employees selling fingerboards. And I put together a whole team.

41:23 Like I had a You know. Uh. president, I had vice you know, vice president of sales, marketing, just a The skeleton but

41:31 You know, customer service every kind of And I didn't even know. Honestly. I had no idea what a company looked like. Like I didn't know that you needed a marketing VP or a finance VP or a sales VP. I had no idea. I just thought, oh, you just do it all yourself.

41:46 But that's not it. Nope. And you're eight years into doing this kind of work. No, I'm only like been doing like serious you know, it took me a long time. to get from you know making children's books to actually doing the pogs. You know, that was a And then from the POGs it was probably just three years. So now at this point, do you rename the company Razor? Yep.

42:09 You so you create a completely new entity. Call Razor U Razor USA? Yes. Yep. Okay. With real like Experience people, you know, in real jobs. And me. Okay, and how and and and how much w w w was each s scoot gonna gonna sell for? The scooter sold for

42:29 retailed at a hundred dollars for the and immediately I came up like in really incredibly quickly with all like Good, better, best, classic. Let's just'cause I'd already been in business a little bit. Yeah. Um so It went from like a hundred dollar retail for the base model. to like a hundred and forty dollars for one with some

42:48 Mm parts to it. Like a suspension or wheelie bar, all kinds of Yeah, little bit. Like we had the A, the A two, the A three. Mm we were gold.

42:58 So I from what I understand it's around June of two thousand. when they start to get sold in the US, the razor scooters. Yes. And I mean craze is an understatement. Yes.

43:11 What happened? So I was selling a million scooters a month. From the get go. From the get go. Just because Yep, Target, I think. Sharper image. I mean, everywhere, everywhere. All the sporting goods stores I sold to, Dick Sporting Goods, uh Sports authority.

43:34 You know, I don't even it's it's so hard to you know, it's like uh You know, beanie babies or You know, cabbage pad kids at the time when you know parents are scrambling for them and can't get them. It was ridiculous. It was Uh once in a lifetime experience for me. And just once generational.

43:51 Sales. Why were these so popular? What's your theory? Why did why was there such a craze around these things? That's a Good question. I mean I d I sort of take these things on face value. Um but

44:07 Scooters have always been popular. But these were small, made out of aluminum, so super light, and they had ball bearing You know uh

44:18 Uh wheels from rollerblades. And That is made them Much better at scooter. than the old fat better. It's sort of like the brain.

44:28 Like a technological improvement. They're not. Um aesthetically beautiful. Which isn't always the case.

44:35 They were culturally, they were used. by adults and children that was I think influential So adults could talk about them and ride them in a way that like yo-yos were never used by adults. So it had a broader appeal. You know, and it it had something to do with you know, the internet coming and they were used in Silicon Valley, you know, in warehouses and

44:56 You know, people would use them like they'd fling'em over their shoulders and unfold them. There was this vision of future transportation where adults would be riding scooters. That helped popularize it in local car. There was a my favorite thing. Um a cover of the New Yorker. Of a guy riding uh you know, razor scooter and then

45:17 A another man riding a tricycle. Yeah, just infuse the culture in a way that like yo yo's didn't or other other crazes happened before. All right, so this is like the year two thousand. Yes. It's going nuts. Yes. And you're selling A million a month. Yes.

45:36 And just overwhelmed. Just totally overwhelmed. But but And but this sounds like it was different that this wasn't not gonna be A flash in the pan. This is gonna be lasting. Did you feel that way? I had no idea. You know, I probably in the back of my mind.

45:53 was thinking, how long is this gonna last? Honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so what I don't understand is I mean You've got this thing, it's selling like crazy in the summer of two thousand. Where's Mattel? Where's Hasbro? Where are the big toy companies? Why aren't they j jumping on this and just cranking these out? They can't move that fast.

46:14 That's essentially the answer. It's just too fast for them. And also they're probably wise. They're like Wise but incorrect.

46:24 They're like Um oh this is gonna be over by before we could get into it. So we won't be able to sell any. Right. And

46:32 Wha when did the the copycat start to come? At the beginning. they were because they knew and that's right. And they're quick acting. Yes. And did you have I mean, I remember the r uh you know, I've ridden razor scooters and like it had the fender on the back that was the brake, for example. So was w w was it a patent was it

46:54 This was where my Legal training came in handy. Um but yes, there we had a patent. And that could also be a reason. But I'm not sure that other bigger companies didn't get involved because they were aware of our patent.

47:10 We certainly publicized it right away. But mostly people ignored our pet you know the fact that we had a patent. And this is already the beginning of like, you know, Chinese factories starting to just crank out copycats of products. How so you have a cho you have an option here, you can just ignore them and just really double down on your brand. Or you could go after them, and I think you chose to start to sue them. We did. We did a major lawsuit. And this is in two thousand. In two thousand.

47:37 Okay. In the fall. And did the l litigation instantly stop their sales? Like did you have an injunction or we we prevailed quickly. We I believe we got a preliminary injunction. I I I re I I believe that Um

47:52 The lawyers were great. And we were able to Have an injunction against everybody. Did you did you but did it eat into your sales? Um it did not I sold as many as I could manufacture.

48:06 During the time I was selling them. So I couldn't have sold any more than I did. But they sold a lot. And Helped.

48:15 Cause The thing that always happens. Which is the sales completely stopped on a dime. Wait. How? What do you mean they stopped stopped when?

48:25 They stopped in spring of The spring. Of two of two thousand one. Yeah. They they stopped on a dime. I could not sell a single scooter out of my warehouse.

48:35 Wait, so in June of tw two thousand you were selling a million a month. Yes. Thro through the rest of the year. Yes. You're selling million a month at least. Yes. And In the spring of so like by March of twenty January of two thousand one. You couldn't sell one the s the sales stopped? Yes. Doesn't make sense. It makes no sense it Doesn't make sense unless you understand crazes. It happened to me so many times.

48:58 В міз So this is how it relates to the knockoffs. They were also selling. At the same time. So between the two of us

49:07 We sold A uh scooter. Every single Kid. in America who wanted one.

49:15 But like literally everybody between the age of You know, five and eleven or twelve. Got one. Like ten million scooters, maybe, maybe more. Maybe fifteen million.

49:26 Yes, maybe five. And so I maybe only had a third of the market, believe it or not. You know, and their others were cheaper. You know, I was at a hundred and a hundred and thirty dollars. Th there they were there were a lot of scooters sold. And No matter how many times the retailers go through this, no matter how many times I went through this, everybody's thinking to themselves, this time is different.

49:47 Like this time it's gonna sell a million a month for the next three years. And they can't even just do simple math that there's not that many people. Right. And so As much as I was trying to tell everybody in my organization we can't keep ordering scooters, we still had Like a million scooters in the warehouse for the next month's sale, which then were zero.

50:09 Okay, by the spring of two thousand one What are retailers just stop? Or Toys R stops Ordering them? Yes. Nothing. Nothing. They've gone from we will pay you whatever it takes to we don't we don't want these eight marks. This was the olden days. Do do you know what they said?

50:25 They said We want you to take all these back. We've got too much inventory. And what did you say? We said no, we don't have any room in our warehouse which has a million scooters in it.

50:36 But it was a major conflict that I had. It was my first hardball experience with retailers where they're they'd already paid you for them, right? They'd already paid us for them. Yeah. I mean My reaction was

50:50 Because I am I mean of course I'm s struggling to do everything I can, you know, w it to it's sort of like after the Um Uh

51:01 Pogs, I tried to make keychains. So I'm trying to think of anything I can do. Yeah. Right. But Not having had a lot of success with keychains. My impulse was to Fire everybody. That was my impulse.

51:15 Just basically kind of collapse the business and cut back. Yeah, like I I could do it myself. Like it would be me and Robert and a couple of people. You were that concerned about the business surviving? Absolutely. I cause I never had a craze that continued before. I never had a craze that continued before.

51:32 And I never had a brand before. And I didn't understand what it meant to own a brand. I thought I just had the next yo yo or the next You know, fingerboard and that it was just all over and that there wasn't hardly any business here. You know that I couldn't handle just by myself'cause I handled fingerboards and pog you know, pogs by myself.

51:49 So so you Are thinking about Trim and how many employees did you have that at the time? Probably f Forty five or fifty.

51:58 Yes. This is like the fourth time that my entire business has completely collapsed. And I'm like, and now I got all these people looking at me and like, okay, now come on, where's your next hit? But I don't think I'll be able to do it again.

52:11 And I'm just a very, very Frugal. You know, and not optimistic, skeptico. person and I just said it's over. We should just save every penny we can.

52:22 Well we come back in just a moment. How razor scooters turn a corner After going electric. Stay with us, I'm Guy Roz, and you're listening to How I Built This. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Roz. So it's early 2001. The Razor Craze has collapsed, and Carlton is ready to fire a bunch of people and manage the business by himself.

52:57 But his partner Robert He says No. He's just like You shouldn't do this. You just have to have more faith.

53:06 that we'll be able to come up with new things and we should keep all these people and You know, I really respect Robert so much. And you know, again, for so many years we've just had this partnershi where we talk over everything and he I'm not a I don't get

53:23 Set in my ideas, I think, like to think. I think I'm open-minded, and he has a lot of influence over me, and he persuaded me. It's really the answer. And I just did. I just kept going. Okay, before we we find out what happened What about the the the inventory that you had. I mean you had all of this inventory

53:43 What was gonna happen to that inventory? Um Really what what happened was So To be

53:49 Really candid. Is that Gino was a great partner. And You know

53:59 These scooters did not cost very much to manufacture. You know, he owns Owns Razor. With me. But he also owned the factory that made them.

54:09 And he charged us a pretty penny. And so we owed him a lot of money for these like leftovers. We'd already paid them. for all the other scooters. But you know, but for the leftover scooters

54:22 He said Listen. I'm gonna you know, help you with that. You know, you don't have to pay me the full price on those scooters.

54:31 And so but that came out of all the you know, all of our profit, essentially. Um but he took a hit. We took a hit. And so I just sat on'em. I sat on him, but

54:43 You know After a certain amount of time. The retailers were able to work through their inventory. of their extra inventory. And then they needed Somewhere between two or four million scooters a year.

54:57 To keep going. Mm. You know, f at that time, you know, there were four million new Customers. turning from four year olds old where they couldn't ride a razor scooter to five years old. So there was still

55:11 All the new kids. So wonderful. They were not a flash in the pan. That's basically the answer. That's what it's going to be. Yeah, because so so it was this craze, right? all of a sudden everybody had one. But really it was the beginning and of a Kind of a classic toy. Absolutely, which is so rare.

55:30 Yes, exactly right. It became a foundational part of childhood. And is. You still sell them today. Yes. I mean I I think that You know, to be just

55:40 Totally fair. Our patent has expired. Yeah. And You know, at lower price points, I'm more of a quality based, you know, higher end scooter. even at the basic thirty dollar scooter. So I don't have the market share that I had of that product.

55:59 That I did originally. But everybody gets some form of The scooter that I say. Like you think about sort of foundational toys like a bike and A skateboard because it doesn't take as much talent as a skateboard to ride. Yeah. Yep.

56:15 But now you are in a category which is wield. Mob mobility toys. Yes. Right. Yes. This is different than the Pogs and the Slammers. And so now I'm assuming You're trying to find things that work within that category. Correct. And also For the first time I had a brand.

56:33 So when you have a brand I began to think of Brand extensions. So just common sensical things. Oh, when we came out, you know, it was just like a a a theme, but that we would try to do what we did with the scooter, essentially. Um

56:48 You know, which is look at the class young kids to have like you know, power wheels or And we would just razorizem. So we'd bring'em out in shiny aluminum and

57:03 High qual higher quality and some innovation. I always wanted to do something innovative with the product, too. So, you know, updated versions of classic. Product. Which were made out of plastic. Aluminum. And actually when we did it The market was primed. and accepting they it really was like anything with razor on it.

57:24 Had appeal. And so that item sold well. It wasn't a crazy hit, but it was sold well. And it was uh it was basically an updated version of a big wheel, which is an updated version of a tricycle. That's right. Yeah, we called it the screen machine. So the бізнес was began to thrive.

57:41 Almost immediately because Both? Scooters began to sell again. Like You know, maybe after eight months or something.

57:50 And people were buying this new these new products from Razor. Um they were very supportive. Toys are us supportive people believed in Razor as a brand. And they were good products without You know being

58:04 Crazy Yeah, it's but of course. Me as my personality, I'm looking for something. Magical. Always.

58:13 And what was the next magical thing? The next magical thing. was an electric Scooter. So this is already in like this is o back in like two thousand five, I think. Very early on. I mean this is before e people e w it was even on people's radar screens.

58:31 Way before. Right. It was basically a battery powered scooter with a um A throttle. And a and a break, right? That's right. And actually the first

58:40 The first iteration was Uh really Outside inventor. They made a battery powered motor that could mount on a razor scooter.

58:53 And that sold. Well But It didn't take me long to realize that was not the way to sell an electric scooter. You don't wanna just like Bolt one on.

59:06 You want to make it From the ground up is an electric scooter. And this really begins your Uh n I wouldn't say a total shift, but a a Kind of a shift into a

59:16 Power electrified. ride on things like not just scooters but then dirt bikes and like like sort of A T V style vehicles but that were Yeah. Not if A T Vs or dirt bikes that were thousands of dollars, but that were

59:33 More like toys. Exactly right. This was transformative. This was explosive. Again. This So The the the electric scooters, as soon as I put them out there, they flew off the shelf. It was great sales.

59:47 And then but you didn't you didn't abandon analog things. You there there's a product that you guys br bring out in two thousand six called the Rip Stick, which is um I still see them. It's like basically Imagine two sort of platforms connected by a by a rod and it's like a kind of a skateboard mitza, I don't know what, and it's It like

1:00:07 I I've tried to stand on these things. I don't have the balance, but This thing How did this thing come about? So this is Again.

1:00:17 I was In my own neighborhood. And All of a sudden I saw like five kids on something called the Way board. And I said, Okay.

1:00:28 This is this is a craze. So I um Called a couple of my People, you know, who sold into smaller venues. And he goes, Yeah, this is crazy. And so I contacted the inventor. And I said, You gotta do it with us. We're gonna we're gonna make this A giant craze.

1:00:45 And we did. And and again it was like the formula was, let's come up with something. We'll put in in Toys R Us. Yes. And i and Walmart. And so it was like if you build it, they will come kind of. Absolutely. It sold itself. It was just out of control.

1:01:00 When when did that model start to shift. What do you mean? Like like w I mean, obviously Toys R Us isn't there anymore and You know, Walmart and and Target still sell toys, but it's somewhat different. I mean, was there a point where it you couldn't just

1:01:16 Make a toy, put it there and and I t so there's a distinction. Like if it's a Craze? That still works.

1:01:25 Very few crazes. So We also discovered television. And so we could take innovative items. That

1:01:35 We're not Organically growing. Like the You know, ripstick was. Organic momentum.

1:01:43 Word of mouth that exploded into the culture, and everyone had to have one. But we were coming across very good items. that didn't have any organic momentum on their own, so they needed television advertising. to get them going. And Through a very long phase of

1:02:01 Making it. Wheel goods, which nobody had been doing. And putting'em on TV. But it sounds like by the time you start to release these electric

1:02:12 versions, these are battery powered versions of you know, of of little motorcycles and and go karts and dirt bikes and then you the ripstick That you start to you really find a way To create Some kind of stability.

1:02:28 in in the company, the brand. Oh yes. The Razor Scooter. was notoriously You know, something that was created and lasted forever.

1:02:38 And actually These electric motorcycles and scooters, they just keep getting stronger and stronger and stronger. And they're not as easy. To knock off. As the scooter.

1:02:52 You know, they're not it's not so much the patent, but the actual technology in making them is quite challenging. you know, to do it well. And so that is we have a very, very steady business on our evergreen items. Let me let me ask you about uh because I want to get into the the really the other pr product that would would also blow up called the hoverboards. Which is not a hoverboard, it's not hovering like back to the future. It looks like it. But it's basically like a segue without the handlebars. Correct, right. begins around twenty fifteen. Yes. Um before we get to that story What were you doing about copycats? Were you still suing

1:03:35 People who were knocking off your electric Scooters and things like that, or were you just saying it is what it is and let's just focus on the side. And and it's and people can't successfully haven't yet. So there's the measured pessimists in me, haven't yet successfully Mm knocked off the electric product.

1:04:00 Right, okay. And your main sales channel were still the retail stores. Yes. The physical stores. Yes. When when did that start to shift to Amazon and to online? You know, when it the day Amazon started buying.

1:04:13 We started to shift with them. We were very early on Amazon. But we had two dramatic shifts. The most Saddest dramatic ship for Razor. has been

1:04:24 The loss of Toys are Us. You know, not only is it a loss from the kids perspective of a fantasy place to go, but They actually always carried our entire line and when we came out with something innovative, they got way behind it. You know, and we could always rely on three big customers, Walmart Target, and Toys R Us. If we're gonna put something on television. that they would get behind it and support it.

1:04:45 And now Without Toys R Us you you lose a third of the triad. And we really lost a very significant part of our sales when Toys R Us went Bankrupt. And it was not completely replaced by the other people. All right, let's talk about the hoverboard. So this is a product that I guess is brought to you by an inventor. Yes. Or you you discover it and

1:05:06 S guy named Shane Chen. And tell me about how you came across this product and and and also why you thought it was gonna Just Don't Go crazy.

1:05:16 So I had a really good relationship with Shane and every year. He would show me these wild and crazy inventions that he made. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I'm happy to t keep showing me. You know

1:05:29 We could try it a little bit, but I don't know. It just seems too odd. And amongst the things that I kept rejecting. Was the harbor board. And I kept saying um You know, it's too hard to use.

1:05:42 You know, I can't I can't ride it. And if I can't ride it You know I don't wanna I don't wanna sell it. Right. And then I had my incredible You know, marketing guy who was been with me from the start, Ali, he he even was like he he could ride anything and he's like, This isn't so easy to ride.

1:06:01 But then Yeah. Some point, like everything that is really gonna be a phenomenon, it began to catch on on its own without my help, without anybody's help. And I said chain? It's time to be in business again.

1:06:12 And that was that. And he had he invented it. He had the patent on it. And we signed a deal. Now there was You know, I had to like fend off as I often do.

1:06:23 You know, fend off other people who want to sell it, but I was successful and I have a long relationship with Shane, so it wasn't impossible. And uh we got it. It was like another Incredible. It was like our peak year. It was the second

1:06:36 major cultural the event that we were involved in. J Jamie Fox like came out onto the Tonight Show on one at one point. Justin Bieber had one and everybody. All the all the it was again a huge cultural phenomenon. So really, I mean

1:06:54 You were You know. Just expanding, constantly expanding your line. I mean today you've got so m I don't e how many How many different products do you sell? I mean we probably Have

1:07:05 Yeah, hundreds of products, but I would say We still have a solid fifty or sixty different important Items, good items. Right. Yeah. And and and what is your best selling product today? Uh the

1:07:18 mm uh electric motorcycle and the electric scooter. I mean in terms of dollars. In terms of dollars. And then the scooter obviously sells quite a bit too. So we're back to sort of steady eddy. You know Looking for our next

1:07:32 Crazy. So the year after last year was quite good for us. Well, this year's another horror horror show. Because of terrorists. 'Cause everything you make is coming from China. Correct. Yes. And we have a little bit of operations in Vietnam, but

1:07:49 But China. And so what does that mean for your business right now? I mean it's It was An unmitigated disaster?

1:08:00 Like we were I was liter I have you know, made money every single year. I was actually think thinking we're gonna lose money. This year. You know, you're getting hot news. I I suppose I mean I don't know who else you're talking to, but our Prices are significantly higher at retail.

1:08:16 We're not benefit from it. Because it's really You know, retailers who forced to raise prices because of the tariffs. But they're using it to pay the tariff and they don't pay us anymore and our sales are going down.

1:08:29 Their sales are good. In you know, if you look at their total dollar volume of sales, they've raised the prices. They're selling fewer units, but their overall dollar transactions good. But our sales are going down. But not We're not crashing. But it it's a terrible situation.

1:08:46 Yeah. And so how do you What do you do? I mean At first

1:08:51 You know, I've I've got a really great team and we just madly began to figure out how to Vietnam or

1:09:00 you know, Vietnam essentially, or Thailand you know, we began to move everything. Until it was a pause and then we sort of moved everything back. But we're just basically Running around like our uh chicken with his head cut off, trying to respond to what's ever happening next. What about looking for the next thing? Like uh it's still part of your like ethos, I imagine. It is a constant part of our ethos. But this is like

1:09:28 A very interesting Time because I am looking to make some art. At this point. And so maybe looking to sell the company. Well Not so much sell the company, but I want to pass on to the next generation. I'm 63 years old.

1:09:45 You've got kids, are they interested? Not at all. Nope. They want to be filmmakers. Um Because it's a private still privately owned. Still privately owned. Yep. And so I'm really looking to empower the next generation.

1:10:00 I just would in some weird idealistic way, I would like to to to see it live forever, essentially, the company. What do you think could be the next Razor scooter or hoverboard. Oh. You know, if I knew that. But but actually what's interesting, what I'm working on. Is

1:10:21 That intrigues me. And you're this is gonna be just sound boring at this point. But I think Um Discovering trends using artificial intelligence or some other method. of combing the culture for what's happening and finding it early.

1:10:37 That's what was in my Weird brain. And being able to Figure out.

1:10:44 How to do that. you know, algorithmically is very intriguing to me. I mean, I don't know that it's gonna happen. I can't promise it's gonna happen. That's one thing that's very exciting to me. And in fact Exciting to me in general is artificial intelligence for the business. For sure.

1:10:59 Very interested in how that could could roll through the business. Carlton, when you think about You know the just the journey you took. I mean st you know went to law school almost became a lawyer and and

1:11:11 kind of fell into the toy business because you wanted to make b you know p fairy tale picture books. Um And start with these these pogs and then kinda cut cut the bug. And built a really, you know, significant brand here. Yeah. How much of of it do you tribute to the the work you put in and how much do you tribute to luck?

1:11:30 And timing. I love the luck story. You know There's a Like what if I didn't read the article in the LA Times?

1:11:40 That the razor scooter was Of going crazy in Tokyo. And what if Robert hadn't been such an amazing person, such a visionary to put You know.

1:11:50 me and Gino together with him and start the company. And what if W we had shut down. You know, because I was discouraged the year after. You know, there's all these like Luck is is so humbling. as part of success.

1:12:04 And You know. Things happen in a cultural moment, which means you can never bring back the hula hoop. Like how do we explain things like this? I often think that You know, the Beatles, if you brought them into the market today, might not not m you know become famous.

1:12:21 I mean I I feel I do have this like weird ability to like hone into the culture early and act quickly. But Luck.

1:12:33 is such a wonderful thing. There's just no way around it. That's Carlton Calvin, co-founder A razor. By the way, pogs and slammers, they've not totally gone away. You can still buy them on Amazon and you can find the slammers with the scorpions inside.

1:12:51 on eBay. And because the phrase scorpion slammer is so unforgettable, It's also the name of a very hot sauce made, of course, with scorpion chilies. Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app so you never miss a new episode of this show. And if you're interested in insights, ideas, and lessons from the world's greatest entrepreneurs, please sign up for my newsletter at guyos.com or on Substack. This episode was produced by Carrie Thompson with music composed by Rontina Rablui. It was edited by Neva Grant with research help from Sam Paulson. Our engineers are Patrick Murray and Maggie Luther.

1:13:31 Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Casey Herman, Chris Massini, Ramel Wood, Andrea Bruce, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening. to how I built this.

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