Transcript

Padma Lakshmi’s secret to authentic leadership? Stop trying.

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0:53 Hey folks, Jeff Berman here. I am thrilled to share some of the new names who will be joining us at this year's Masters of Scale summit. This may be our biggest stage yet. Reed Hastings, Meredith Whitaker, Van Jones, Amjad Masad, and more. Will be there with us October 20th through 22nd in San Francisco. If you're building something great, or you want to build something great, We want you there with us too.

1:20 Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. No matter what they do. What this administration does with Ice or Border Patrol or any of the other ways they're trying to

1:41 Impede the natural progression of what this country looks like. They want a white America. They do. And it's too late. My child's blood is just as red as theirs.

1:54 I know that I turn some people who don't think like me off. Yes, of course, I'm a I'm afraid of losing business. But I'm more afraid of losing my soul. That's Pad Malachmi, TV host, author, producer, and now series creator of CBS's upcoming America's Culinary Cup, premiering Wednesday, March 4th. Padma and I have chatted before about the intersection of business and food and culture, and I wanted to know why she's eager to shake up food media right now after leaving Top Chef.

2:34 I was also curious about her take on the US government's crackdown on immigration as an immigrant herself and a UN Goodwill Ambassador. Padma doesn't hold back, offering candid advice for business leaders about speaking out on social and political issues, how to radiate authenticity on social media. and why it's okay to take Zoom meetings from the comfort of your bed. The clock starts now, so let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian, and this is rapid response.

3:08 I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Padma Lakshby, TV host, producer, author. Uh Padma, thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. Nice to see you, Bob. Yeah, it's been a little a little bit since we last connected. You're you're no longer a top chef. Such a great run. Uh your show Taste the Nation on Hulu's going gangbusters, and now you've got a new startup. America's culinary cup. Premiering March 4th on CBS. Do you like the startup phase? D do you think of it as a startup?

3:39 I don't think of it as a startup. Um, because I'm not a startup person, I guess. But I I do love the beginning stages of building a show. I find it very rewarding and stimulating. I think there's a certain excitement and energy when you're building something from scratch that is totally different from you know, just being talent on a show. So I actually love the parts where I'm not on camera more much more. See, now that sounds like a startup to me, a creative project that you're you're moving a lot of things around, not all of them in your control, right? Well, I mean it is definitely a creative project. When I think of startup, I think of um

4:22 a tech company. And I mean I love I I do have control over everything. I mean, I can't control what the chefs do, obviously, once we start filming, but I do have a say in every aspect of the show, down to wardrobe, down to what kind of salt we have in the pantry, um, what kind of lights we're using, all of it. You know, there's so much about This

4:47 medium that you know I am not an expert in, right? Like I don't know what lens to use. Is that an eighty or two hundred or whatever, right? So then it's just about building a team, building your dream team. You know, I had a body of experience that prepared me for for this. project and it's the biggest project I've ever done. probably all told three hundred and fifty people on my crew. It's like this big group comes together and and and Builds this circus and it's exciting.

5:20 So America's Killing Your Cup, it has a million dollar prize, much bigger stakes than other cooking shows. S some top top chefs. prize. I had a lot of support from CBS who really wanted this show. Um they really gave me carte blanche. I really appreciate the faith that they had in me and how they treated me like an autour, you know, and and to have that mutual respect from someone who's heading as big an enterprise as CBS Was life changing. I was fortunate enough to get to see a sneak peek of the show and I was struck by how

5:56 How directly like competitive and alm almost cutthroat it was. Like was that was that a goal that you sort of To construct it to be that way? I wouldn't use the word cutthroat. I would say I wanted when you know, look, I thought that

6:13 The genre needed an update, needed a refresh and a shake up. Um you know, one of the reasons that I left the genre was because I was bored. And um I wanted to be simulated like all of us, you know, um, when you do anything for too long. And so I wanted when every other show was zigging, I wanted to zag. Okay. I wanted to do a show that was purely about the pursuit of excellence.

6:41 No tricks. No, you know, obstacles thrown in their way, no crappy equipment. I wanted to develop a show that of course was a success for my own professional ego and for the accomplishment of it, but more than a successful show. I wanted to create a new culinary institution. I wanted a boku's door for America. You know, I didn't want us to always keep looking towards France. I wanted to create a new tradition in our country based on traditions that were born here in America, a fine dining. Obviously it's still a Western European uh influenced culture. So it is French technique that comes in there. But

7:25 I wanted Чи гівді шефс Every toy, every weapon, every ingredient of the highest caliber, so that they could do their best. I want like the Wimbledon of cooking. I want the Olympics of cooking. So if you're gonna ask Serena Williams to come and play, you're not gonna give her a shitty racket. You're not gonna give her a court that is not as manicured as possible. And that's what I wanted to do for our chefs. And who she's competing against, who your chefs are competing against. Like that. That's also part of the allure, right? Like Yeah, I mean you you know a million dollars is a big amount of money for anybody. So it brings out all kinds of chefs

8:08 out of the woodwork that you would never think would even want to compete on TV. You know, n everyone on that show On our show has A Michelin Star or a James Beard nomination or a James Beard one or a Bokus Dore medal or you know Oh god. On and on and on, you know. So we really beat the bushes. It was by invitation only. You could not apply. Um, I also, you know, wanted to make sure we canvassed the country well. And I know it is a show that um

8:42 Every Every world renowned chef would be proud to be on and would that kitchen I mean I had So many different chefs come in, whether they were competing or judging, and you'll see them throughout the uh season. Look around and be like, I would kill to have a kitchen like this in my restaurant. And that made me feel good. So I you know, more than the million dollars

9:05 I want people to want to win that cup because that cup means something. And it will mean something after people have seen our show. Our show is governed by the principles. Of fine dining and what makes A great chef, great, you know, all of the things that they have to master meet Vegetables, sustainability, consistency, innovation. You know, science and tech.

9:33 All of those things that a well rounded, world renowned chef should master. Like there's there's there's no time where they're like sitting in a stew room, you know, arguing with each other. We don't make them live together. They're adults, you know, we're not sequestering them. We're not taking, you know, their phones away. They their families can come visit them. They're human beings and I don't want to torture them. I want to support that. If they want to stay up all night and memorize La Rouce gastronomique, that is on them. Right. Right. But that's not your challenge.

10:09 It's not my vibe. Yeah. Um but I know what makes a good competition, I know what makes a good chef, and I know I have a good palate to judge that. You mentioned you you're leading this team.

10:21 You know, three hundred or so or so people. Are there Particular mindsets that you go to when you're leading a group like that, any any lessons you've learned or or foundations you fall back on from your experience? I think the biggest thing that I wanted to make sure I did was be clear.

10:41 You know, I think people respect someone with a Very Clear point of view. And that they communicate that point of view. to their crew, like the worst thing is to be like, I don't know, what do you think when the art when the head of the art department comes to you and says, How would you like this to look in an ideal world?

11:03 You know, you need to know that. You need to have envisioned that. You can't be like, I don't know, what do you think? You know? Um Before you ever start Picking up a hammer. Or looking for locations, you have to see the show in your mind's eye. And um because I had thought about it for a long time and because I had I had made sure that I, you know.

11:29 had conceptualized a show in great detail. I had all of the ten commandments before I ever got the green light for the show. Is it true that you take Zoom calls from your bed? I saw this somewhere. It's it's something not a lot of bosses would feel comfortable with. Or or or are you are you modeling behavior for your team like let's not be too stressed, but also never stop working. Like what?

11:53 Um, I'm not trying to model anything. I am a workaholic. I get great satisfaction from what I do and like any good immigrant, I usually have you know, two or three jobs at once. And as you can imagine, a responsibility like the show, it's a really big swing for me. Um You know, there were times when Um, I was just tired.

12:19 And so I didn't want to go into the office. And um yes, I do take Zoom calls in my bed, but you know, that comes also with confidence. I wouldn't have done that. you know, five years ago. Like I'm not talking to the head of the network in bed, although now if I did, she'd probably giggle at me. But as long as you get your work done and get it done to the highest standard possible. I don't care, you know.

12:45 Yeah. Yeah. I'm a creative. I'm not a corporate person. Over the years you've been A a central figure in the growth of food media TV and books and so on. How do you think about the broader impact?

12:59 You're having like are you Are you you try to affect how food is? Produced and consumed food system. Something broader.

13:09 I mien I will tell you that I'm very concerned. With how much food waste that this country has. And that's That prays on my mind. And that's why, you know, even on our show, we tell them you don't have to make anything more than a tasting portion. I mean, there are times when we're testing for consistency where they had to make a hundred plates or whatever.

13:36 But those also, you know, go to my crew. And we told them, like, we're gonna give you this food, so keep a little space in your tummy open. They were very happy to be able to taste the food. But I'm trying to do work that will outlast me. Hm. Um I

13:55 I'm trying to Follow my And act accordingly. And eke out a living by doing so.

14:04 When I took Top chef. That job. I thought it would help my cookbook out a little. I d you know, I thought I would give it a little boost that was kinda cool. And you know, when I was started talking to Bravo, they were the network of um

14:19 Actors Studio. They were not the network of the housewives. I was thinking also there's there's food's impact on culture and even politics. The your your book that came out in November, Padma's all American recipes and essays. You were born in India, you moved to the US when you were four. You said the book was a was a rallying cry that we're all American. Can you explain what you mean by that? I think I was frustrated by the narrative that You know, only

14:51 People of European descent. We're quote unquote real Americans because the real Americans you want to be purist about it and honest about it. Are people who are indigenous and part of the First Nations, you know? And if you look at the cover, it's me in front of the flag, but if you take off the jacket, there's a picture of me with tw Twila Castador who is an Apache woman. Who lives on the San Carlos reservation and taught me how to forage in the desert, which is something I'll never forget. But I mean I

15:22 I wanted to do something that was illustrative of our culinary landscape in this country. You know, a landscape That is not often Um given mainstream media attention. And so yes. course, you know, um hot dogs and hamburgers, but those are also things that were brought here by Germans.

15:45 Right. historically has been for twelve thousand years before the Mayflower got here or whatever, you know, it is Squash, beans. And corn. It is elk. It is that.

16:02 It's not chicken and apple pie. Not one ingredient in apple pie. Is indigenous to North America, not even the apples. You know? So I just wanted to make sure. We called all of our influences and and all of what makes this country amazing, um, not only food buys, but in general. To the table. What does it mean to be as American as Apple Pie when nothing in Apple Pie is indigenous to the US?

16:32 Cadmi gets you thinking about what drives culture, about the deeper lessons of the food world. After the break, she shares her leadership tips on authenticity, bravery, and the confidence to be yourself, plus her perspective on the Trump administration's ICE program and its impact on all of us. Stay with us. The Wired Newsroom is known for award winning reporting on how technology shapes our world. On Wire's Uncanny Valley, we take that curiosity even further.

17:07 Each week, journalists from Wired break down the biggest stories in tech while speaking directly with the people building, challenging, and reshaping the future. Is the AI boom sustainable? How do you protect your privacy in an age of constant surveillance? Uncanny Valley tackles the questions driving today's tech debates and lighting up your group chats. Listen to new episodes every Thursday.

17:27 Wherever you get your podcasts. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show because every Friday we release a second Rapid Response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely. From Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find. Just search Rapid Response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI.

18:13 Those are great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future? That is human centered. I'm Rana El Calyubi. And on my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone.

18:36 Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future, and we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives. Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Before the break, TV host and author Pad Malachmi talked about how her new show, America's Culinary Cup, is like the Wimbledon of Cooking Honors. Now, Padma talks about the legacy that business leaders should be mindful of leaving, how the US government's immigration crackdown makes her think differently about her own work, and what drives true business authenticity. Let's dive back in.

19:22 Your work. The book The Hulu show, you're sort of drawing on Multicultural experience, immigrant experience. With all the stuff that's going on right now.

19:35 With uh crackdowns on immigration. How do you feel about that? How does that impact what you're trying to do? I feel horrible. I feel horrible about all of it. Yeah.

19:47 It's unconscionable, it's unethical, it's immoral, it's antithetical to what this country has not only been about, but what makes it so unique and singular. On the world stage. I mean there's more migration uh today on earth than there has been in the history of human kind But America in particular is shaped and evolved into the superpower it is.

20:16 because of immigration. Специфіки без імміграчин. Because we are able to attract Talent from around the world. And with the promise of you can make your life here peacefully.

20:32 And in turn. In exchange, make America. Better. through you know whatever skill you bring, whatever uh however you contribute to the economy, to the educational system, to the medical system, or you know, whatever. En I think it is very short sighted.

20:53 Of this administration, I mean it's racist. It's of course it's racist, you know. Let's just call a spade a sway. But it's also from a pragmatic view really stupid because. First of all, I mean you can just all you have to do is You know, open your social media to see this farmer who voted for Trump crying about. Carrots.

21:15 In his field that cannot be harvested because all of the people are scared and have run away and not come to work. We can thank Trump for that. He can thank Trump for losing his family farm. You know. And if anyone else wants to pick that vegetable or fruit for that under those conditions for that money, they would have. But they don't.

21:38 And ask business leaders about this kind of question. There there's a lot of um wariness. About Being as clear about the way they feel as you're being here. They're they're worried about poking the administration. They're worried about

21:54 Alienating potential customers, potential audiences. Do you Do you worry about that? Um I know that I turn some people who don't think like me off.

22:10 Um I know that I cannot incredibly be anyone but who I am. Mm. And I think that

22:21 Me leaning into who I am. Has made me sleep better at night, but also Has brought me A modicum of success that I feel I've earned. And and so

22:36 Yes, of course. I'm s I'm afraid of losing business. But I'm more afraid of losing my soul. Your new show is on CBS. You've talked about what great partners they've been. CBS itself has been a little bit of a a lightning rod with the paramount And Warner Brothers deal and what's happening at

22:56 Stephen Colbert show or you know, or or sixty minutes. Have you Felt any of that? To be honest, I have not because I'm not in the news department. I personally think food is very political. But

23:13 The show we are making is not. At all political. You're also a United Nations global ambassador. The Environment around the UN has become more fraught also with

23:27 With this administration. Is what you hear when you go to other countries as an ambassador about America, is that changing? I mean it's been changing for ten years. It's not just changing now. I remember having a book tour in India. Early twenty seventeen. And um I felt like

23:50 I was You know, Trump's Excuse my language, like people kept saying, What is going on? And you know, so like All I could say was. I'm so sorry. I kept apologizing and saying, like, I'm so sorry, I didn't vote for him on behalf of all Americans, we are sorry, you know. And those were such innocent times. But that was happening even 10 years ago.

24:15 Um And I think it's a shame because we have squandered A lot of the goodwill Um that America had in spite of its very questionable

24:28 questionable foreign policy for decades and decades, okay? Um We still had a lot of goodwill because we were that beacon. On the hill. We were that shining light that said, listen, we don't care where you're from, as long as your values align with American values, i.e., the declaration of independent, i.e., the Bill of Rights, i.e. the Constitution. You too have a fair shot in this country, and that It's a beautiful sentiment, you know, that there the only club there is is what

25:04 Your efforts bring to the table, or what your assets or resources, however you want to say it. That is a wonderful thing and very unique and something that I think every American can feel proud of, but It's going to take decades to repair a lot of the damage that has been done. And You know.

25:31 It's too late. It's too late to go back to how it was. People's trust in what we say we are as Americans doesn't have that because I think people are intelligent enough to make the distinction between one man and his administration in office and the average American citizens. I meant it's too late for no matter what They do what this administration does with Ice or Border Patrol or any of the other ways they're trying to

26:00 Impede the natural progression of what this country looks like. They want a white America. They did. You know, they want Um only European

26:12 uh descendants to be in this country. And it's too late. Yeah. Yeah. Too late. Who's gonna program your computers? Who's gonna be your cardiac surgeon? Who's gonna be you know and And also the thing that is terrible, and I want to get away from this for a second, it's not only about what you can contribute.

26:37 To this country, okay? Persons worth. Should not only be based Um They're they're they're Skills or resources.

26:49 There's nothing that is more Morvalu. between my child and that child in the Congo in Gaza, in Brazil My child's blood is this just as red as theirs. When we see each other that way.

27:07 That Will be a turning point. But this administration does not hold that belief. At all. You integrate all of this

27:18 Into your work though too, right? I'm lucky, I'm very fortunate, and I know this. Two Be able to make a living out of what naturally interests me, you know. I didn't get into food into professionally until I was

27:34 uh in my late twenties or you know, almost thirty. And so I was a literature and theater major, you know, I was an actress, and then I made this change. Most of us spend most Of our life at work. And so You've got to believe in what you're doing because work is hard regardless. Even when you do, you know, they're very difficult.

27:55 Days and that's why they call it work. So I think the more you can find a way to spend your time. doing things guided by your principles. The happier. One will be.

28:13 My producers were talking about the the s uh videos that you post with your daughter and how sort of how genuine your your connection is to to your community. A lot of the listeners of this show, they're business people who are trying to come across as being authentic in their Communications internally, social media, otherwise like do you Do you have a suggestion about how

28:41 How you do that? Um You know, it it was hard one. that that understanding that I now have because For so long, especially when I was still an actor, um

28:56 I tried so hard. To figure out and be what any one person who could give me the job wanted me to be. I mean, it's inherent when you're an actor, I guess, but um I have now realized that that there's a difference between Trying to be authentic.

29:15 And just being authentic. One Is conscious Of an observer. Of an audience.

29:24 The other Is not Conscious of the self being observed. So, you know, obviously my videos are edited. They're also edit to protect my child and certain privacy issues in my home. Um, but I I am like I am on those videos. Whether the camera is on or off, which is different, obviously. That's a different version of me than you see on my television shows or in my op-eds for the Times or the Washington Post, you know, and it's also a different voice.

29:58 than is in my cookbooks or my children's book. So they're all different versions of me, but in my home. That's really what it's like. And I don't have the time or the bandwidth to concoct a different persona. You know, how can corporate leaders be more authentic? The only piece of advice I have for them is Especially when they're doing media, you know, whether it's just An internal video or it's something public facing.

30:28 Try to do it without the camera on, or try to do it when you don't know the camera's on and someone on your staff that you trust. Try not to be aware of being watched. Just have a conversation. Right. Just have a conversation. And you know, an editor said this to me when I was writing my first book. Don't think you're talking to everybody ever. Pick one person in your orbit.

30:54 That Is someone you respect Who's intelligent that you admire. And speak to them, speak to an audience of one. If you try to sort of speak to everybody, you're kind of

31:07 Okay. You know, you then it becomes very performative. Mm. Well, the the best way to uh to come across as being authentic is to actually Be authentic, right?

31:18 Correct. Well, Peb, this was so great. Thank you for doing it. It's it's great to be able to get together and chat about all this. Thank you so much for having me on, Bob. Nice to see you again.

31:33 I have to say I found Padma's reflections on ICE and the Trump administration refreshing. She's unapologetically herself, in a way a lot of business leaders wish they could be right now. While you could say that Padma isn't beholden to the same stakeholders as a CEO. Anyone with a platform like hers has something to lose, so I admire her courage in standing up for what she believes in. She's clearly patriotic, as her book Padma's All American, underscores, and she's trying to be true to that patriotism. As for business lessons, to me, her advice for channel authenticity resonates beyond social media. For leaders paralyzed by a seemingly polarization, maybe don't try to speak to everyone. Pick one person and truthfully articulate the values and mission of your company and your team. If we all do that, maybe we'll find ourselves in a business environment that's a touch more

32:29 Palatable. I'm Bob Safian. Thanks for listening. Rapid response is a wait what original. I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our producer is Alex Morris. Associate producer is Mashimaku Tonina.

32:52 Mixing and Mastering by Aaron Bastonelli. Our theme music is by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcasts is Lytal Malad. For more, visit rapidresponsshow.com. Yeah.