Grab’s rise from rideshare to superapp in Asia, with Anthony Tan

Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/d34e0421fc4c8d38

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You can come out as a lion and be proud and be fierce.
You're willing to chew anything in in your path.
but at the same time also sort of have the humility of a lamb.
It's like showing love all the time.
And caring for your people?
While at same time holding a really high bar.
Because you love them.
Because you want them to do better.
Because you believe that customers expect much more from us.
And society wants to see many companies that have triple bottom line fail.
So you gotta prove to them that a triple bottom line company can not only survive but thrive.

That's Anthony Tan, CEO of Grab, the Southeast Asian rideshare super app that's rapidly growing from Singapore to Vietnam. As Uber expands globally, I wanted to talk to Anthony about how Grab outmaneuvered Uber in Southeast Asia, eventually acquiring its operations in the region.
I also wanted to know how Grab has unexpectedly become a pioneer in AI implementation. Anthony talks about how he quote shocked the system at Grab to shift mindsets.
Grab may not be a household name in the U.S., but it's a public company valued at over$20 billion that's in many ways setting the pace for how Rideshare and Super Apps will evolve globally, from electric vehicles and autonomous driving to interacting with local and national governments.
So let's get to it.
I'm Bob Safian, and this
is rapid response.
I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Anthony Tan, co-founder and CEO of Grab. Anthony, thanks for uh being here.
It's a real honor.
So
Grab started in
Two thousand twelve as a rideshare platform. It's since grown into South East Asia's largest
Super app providing food delivery and financial services is more. The the term super app is this increasingly
popular concept what what does super app mean to you?
Well
The super app
Just means an app.
That has multiple services.
If you look at
How it's evolved here in South East Asia.
We started
Just
To solve.
solving Asian problems. For example, safety. Safety was a major issue. We
Wanted.
To make sure rides were safe for women and children.
That was a real problem, we solved that. And we're now at ninety nine point nine percent safety. And then we said, Okay, what's next? We realize, wait, but to get drivers, you needed to
Lend them a phone.
How do you lend them a phone? Because many of them didn't even have a smartphone. So we said we'll start a financing business. So we have fintech built into the Grab app. Uh so it's just like one service after another. And then when we said payments, we said, hey
You know, the driver became an ATM, you know, uh mobile ATM and it wasn't safe for them. So we said, you know what? Uh let's just take out cash out the system.
The drivers have a grab pay wallet, the customers a grab pay wallet. So all this just helped
Build more and more services.
On one app.
I was gonna ask you about the the fintech stuff because like obviously you're you're
Providing a service but also FinTech

better margins than ride share and delivery, which are tough businesses, right? Like how how much of the economics was part of the decision we're like, oh, that's a that's a gap that is valuable for us to fill.
The key is two things. One
How do you create
Amazing data.
And two, how do you create
An amazing collection. Right. It's easy to lend money out. The issue is collecting it.
Right, Bob. Um, so as more and more services are roll, everyday services are rolled out.
More and more data is gathered.
Mm.
As more and more data's gathered, that data has given us an advantage to lend because we basically create a credit score.
Across hundred distinct data points. But it's that massive data advantage.
Allows us.
To price risk much better and to collect much better.
You mentioned
that Grab operates in multiple countries. I I think eight different countries, if I've got it right. I'm not sure how many are up to now. That's right.
For a lot of um businesses that cross borders, twenty twenty five has been a a challenging year. I mean you alluded to it. There's been sort of geopolitical tensions and economic trade war sparked by the Trump administration. How does all that impact
Grab?
Yeah, the geopolitical environment uh hasn't been easy. Um
You know, the tariff wars uh hasn't been easy.
when factories uh have to close down because of the tariffs or whatever uh shops that are happening.
We are able to cushion all this additional employment. We work for and governments really appreciate it because they are really uh
concerned when unemployment shoots up. So they see that we've been able to drive not just
more employment, uh, you know, within twenty minutes they can sign up uh to be a delivery partner, to be a driver.
But
As we got more supply.
Actually prices came down. So if you look at our financials, interestingly, we have
More supply which meant
Less surge sessions, which means lower prices, which means more affordability, which means more customers.
Yet at the same time our earnings po
online hour keeps going up. So our drivers ear more per hour basis.
So really we're seeing a win win win.
as a countercyclical platform.
Across
All our cities in the region.
It's been quite a journey. You went public in twenty twenty one. I know the stock's gone up and down in that time. Right now, sort of in what ways is your business
At an inflection point. Like what's the what's the big urgency that you see now? Is it risk? Is it opportunity? What's next?
If you ask me what's the biggest risk?
I would say no.
For us.
It's really about
Being stagnant.
And
I think
We talked about
the geopolit, we can weather uncertainty.
we can really help communities become resilient.
But
We need to.
constantly change.
Um so at grab we called it
How do you
Think about Kaisen, which is
Just one percent better every day for every service. We just need to be one percent better every trip, every delivery order.
Every payment.
But that's not enough.
That's just not enough, Bob.
We need what we call Kai kaku, which is another Japanese term besides kaizen, is sort of this step change.
So we call that Gai Gaku, G AI, generative AI Gaku.
Using generative AI.

Totally a different company.
And that's what we introduced this idea of AI first with heart.
I wanted to ask you about this. I saw l that last summer you implemented a
a a company paused for a couple of months to upskill your employees on AI, something you called cyborganization.
Why was this necessary at that time?
What did it look like?
I think mindset change is is tough, especially in the Augur for over nine thousand people.
Um
First.
We had to really upskill folks, uh, but you're a shocked system.
Um so we did a generative AI sprint.
I spoke to everyone, whether you're from engineering and data science, you're an AI specialist.
Or you're someone just
Signing up merchants in a tear tree city in Vietnam.
And we said for nine weeks, folks.
We're gonna focus on learning and experimenting.
Where the goal outcome was
Every grabber has to be a technologist.
regardless of what backgrounds you come from.
Before we started the sprint, something like eighty percent of folks were worried that their jobs would be replaced.
But interestingly, by the end of it.
Eighty percent was saying
They understand generative AI so much better.
And they can see how it's helping their jobs.
Total.
Mindset shift.
And that's the beauty. And and it wasn't just, hey, we just wanted to create a uh
You know, sprint for for fun. We
Built real generative AI solutions.
Oh for example.
You know, we created
Uh AI much an assistant.
Now it is deployed across millions of long tail merchants.
We worked with the top R and D labs across the world, uh like like Anthropic. And yesterday I was just looking at we use Cloud Four to think about how to
make it so much more empathetic, so much more relevant for the merchant. So now it's helping them not just boost your sales, helping them with photo edits, helping them position how they look on grab food, uh cross cut the customers, how to pack. They even ask questions, uh Bob, like
Oh, you know, business isn't good. Uh times are tough. You know, can you give me some encouragement, sis?
And the merchant assistant talks in such an empathetic, such an encouraging way as their personal best friend. So that's the type of
Products that couldn't have come out without this generative AI sprint.
You mentioned that you you're working with Anthropic and and Claude, but as I remember you also worked with OpenAI, you were like their their first partner in Southeast Asia, right? So what's that about? Like multiple partners is
is good. I mean, in some ways it would be easier to lean into one system or not necessarily.
Look, you want to find the best solutions for these real world challenges.
We want to partner the best.
And we wanna find a
Best models.
For specific tasks.
When we first started
And early days. Uh I remember
We we did a change, we didn't update an app.
And then there was a bunch of really angry drivers and angry customers who came up to us and sc scolding us.
And we're wondering why. It was uh a few of them were visually impaired.
And because we didn't update and and they couldn't use the accessibility option. Today we've been able to work for open AI.
Two
Create.
Using multi modal LLMs.
On voice specifically.
Such that they can
Speak so easily into it.
Whether you're totally blind or not.
And and really
Solve your problem.
And I know you you must be thinking, hey, look.
It's not a
Big.
set of people who are visually impaired. But you know what, Bob?
It helps these individuals in such a real
large scale impact way to them individually.
But not just depl deploying it for
As we think about just visually impaired, we're thinking about the elderly group, the silver generation, right? So again,
We first started with large impact for small group of people.
Now we've
specialized training. Now it's going to larger and larger groups deployed to more and more ju uh geographical markets. Uh so
In there are scenarios we build on our own.
The Arsenal to be partner the best.
like open AI, like Anthropic. There are scenarios we partner with with the best universities around the world, but what we do believe is
Generally partnerships.
Make us stronger.
Mm. You know, as you're talking about partnerships. Uber.
Which was initially a uh a competitor of yours.
Grab ended up acquiring over South East Asia business, I don't know, six or seven years ago.
And Uber took a stake in Grab. Your Uber CEO, Darek Husford Shah, he sits on your board. It's kind of fascinating to go from competitors to sort of allies, right?
I w what is that relationship like? Like how
How did you
Manage to
To beat Uber, which is something a lot of people are struggling with in in other markets. I mean, are there lessons on
outmaneuvering uh other global players.
Absolutely.
How do
local, hyper local players like us.
Wind.
It's tough.
But how do you get
problems that no one else can solve. Uber is a huge company that many
Great.
Global tech companies that have huge scale.
But
they won't invest in
Very unique problems.
Like for example
Mapping in Southeast Asia.
We built our own maps.
Our core services
Uh
built on the most accurate maps. We found that third party map were just not accurate enough. They weren't updated. They didn't understand um where most of our mobility fleet
Are two wheels, our motorbikes. Right.
That's why we build ground maps and it's not only provided us a huge competitive advantage, a huge cost advantage, but it's become now a B2B.
uh enterprise service that w now Amazon uh buys from us, Microsoft buys from us. So
That's why we can really understand these local problems.
And solving them in a hyper local
way that leads to a much better service that creates higher loyalty, higher retention.

I love hearing how Anthony saw something that other big players were missing and leaned into it, and now has clients like Amazon and Microsoft reliant on him.
It's not unlike his all-in embrace of AI. If Grab is gonna go at something, it's gonna go hard. So how is Grab approaching electric vehicles and autonomous driving? And what makes competing in Asia distinctive from other markets? We'll talk about that and more after the break.
Stay with us.
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Before the break, Grab's Anthony Tan talked about how the Southeast Asip outmaneuvered Uber and how it's going all in on AI.
Now he shares his strategy on electric vehicles, autonomous driving, and what stands out about Southeast Asia based businesses. Plus, lessons on how to cultivate both hunger and humility to build a winning team.
Let's jump back in.
One of the things Grab has been dedicated to is using a lot of electric vehicles, EVs, we've partnered with the likes of
B Y D
What
You know, in the US a lot of organizations have rolled back.
uh sustainability efforts this year. I what what
What a role does that play in your roadmap looking forward?
For us is uh
Two parts.

It is about sustainability, but it's not sustainability for the sake of sustainability.
We have to be honest with ourselves, Bob. Uh climate change does impact livelihoods.
Our drivers uh just recently in Philippines.
When there was a massive flood.
Our drivers couldn't move. That impacts business. That impacts their lives. That impacts their livelihoods, our lives.
Uh
And our business metrics dropped in in Manila.
When that happened.
So
We have to care about the environment.
When we think about E Vs, we think of it in that light.
We
Mm.
to hit our goal of being carbon neutral by twenty forty.
And Eve's is just part of one of the solutions.
We have invested.
Several hundred miljons of dollars.
In low emission vehicles that are
Really?
Primarily on our platform.
So that we can drive this agenda.
Not all markets have EV infrastructure already. You you want
E V's everywhere, but the problem is a lot of the charging infrastructure just isn't ready.
So we had a partner governments to make sure the EV infrastructure is strong. We had to work with uh many companies around to make sure financing is available, not just for the EV cars, but also for EV bikes.
motorbikes, but also for PMDs, personal mobility divices. Um and then of course
building, as I said, with grab maps. We've been able to cut travel time, which again reduces carbon uh because of our maps, because of our
uh AI that is an auto adaptive across our entire system. So for us
Honestly, Bob, it is mission critical and we have very clear goals, very clear plans to get there.
I wanted to ask you about also uh autonomous vehicles, which rideshare companies over here, Uber included, are making a lot of
deals around, pretty focused on. You've been a little bit more
Cautious about
A Vs for your markets.
It is
Going to take a longer ramp up time in South East Asia.
Why?
Because
The road infrastructure is very different.
Outside of Singapore?
It is much messier, uh to say the least. It's much less developed. If you've been to Jakarta or Bali or Phuket, uh
It is
behind
Many of
the road infrastructures that you're used to in the West.
Um that's one.
The second is that the labour cost again outside Singapore
Very, very
Much lower.
Labor costs. Um
So
Fu.
A Vs Autonomous Vehicles to take off.
In the region.
It needs not only to be as safe as what you see in the US
Today.
But it needs to be much cheaper. Those price points that you see in the US just can't work here. It just needs to be much cheaper. But
We are already experimenting. We've deployed our autonomous shuttle.
Uh we're partnering many
autonomous vehicle companies across uh the region, uh globally for the region. And and we are just gonna
Just roll out experiments.
Many A V companies
might not care about drivers. For us, we have to care because
Driver's makeup.
Ninety nine point nine nine percent of our business today. Um, so
We have to think about not just
the displacement effects, but also the augmentation benefits. So
We're really thinking about saying, Hey, for every
driver. How can he become a safety driver?
How can they become remote?
Pilots?
are doing edge cases, how can we think about them becoming data labelers?
We've been upskilling our drivers for a long time, Bob, in the driver app.
You would see how we've partnered MasterCard, how we've partnered Microsoft to have
our our curriculum and micro learning segments. We think about how to create new jobs as we think about the A V world.
It sounds like you see plenty of opportunity still in the
The region that you're in.
To not have to
look further or how much do I mean you as you say you're in you're in eight countries and all the all these cities
It just expanding in those markets is is enough right now.
There's so many problems uh to solve in the region. Uh
And and the region is
Six hundred over a million people. It doesn't have the wealth of America, for sure, uh, but it does have
Lots of babies. Uh it's uh you know, double double the size of America and double the population size. But you know
We literally help reduce unemployment by close to one percent in Philippines.
We generate point seven uh percent of the GDP of the ASEAN nations, of of the big ASEAN nations, right? But the penetration uh is still low if you look at
Mobility, it's it's it's in a low double digits in uh
in in some markets, in some single digits. So
Do we see huge upside? Tremendously. Uh our fintech.
is is our fastest growing vertical. Um and we, you know, we we we we are looking at dispersing billions of dollars.
We just raised uh one point five billion dollars. It was
eight and a half times oversubscribed. Uh we are looking at MA optionies, not just locally.
But also even globally.
Here in the US, there is so much attention paid to China, to China's economy. From your perspective, like is the US
Too obsessed with China? I mean, d what the folks here most misunderstand or underestimate about about other
South East Asian and Asian businesses.
The the reality is
The culture
Sure.

Mm.
Tremendous humility?
But
Tremendous.
Hunger.
All at the same time.
Our leadership culture is based on 4 H, right?
Of hunger.
Oh.
Humility.
Of honor and heart.
Right.
Hunger. Look, we know we just have to
outwork everyone, um because it's a tougher market.
It's it's uh low much lower margins.
Uh prices are much lower.
Um
And and just ha have a much lower cost structure.
Second.
Y you just need
to have be extremely humble, know that you're not the smartest guy in the room. In fact, most people are smarter than you, so you just gotta take feedback all the time. I get I get scolded, you know, just recently, uh last week I got scolded by drivers, uh by driver leader groups uh to say, hey, you're not doing a good enough job here. Um
And and I love getting that feedback, right?
You know, just tell it to me so I can learn and iterate. And then from there I call my leaders and said, Look, these are things we have to change. And the good news is that because of the culture is so prevalent it
that they can take the feedback and iterate very quickly, then this hard to serve.
You know, the culture, you asked me, you know, in those days, and this was pre-Dara, you know, with Uber
the culture to work of governments, not fight them, you know, head on, but work with them and say, look, we're in this together. The heart to serve communities, the passion to serve, you know, whereas the vision vision impaired community, whereas the silver generation helping governments
Um
Digitize their communities.
And and just honor that whatever we say we're gonna do. So
Uh I I can't talk about American obsession, but I can say I think that
Culture is one part that has made a lot of our global peers uh sort of look at Asia and say, Hey, these are things that we could learn as well.
Mm-hmm.
In the early days of Grab, I understand, like you put all your money into the business, you're working twenty hours a day, you're talking about the hustle there. Has the job gotten any easier?
Is it or is it just different now?
Paul, my hours haven't changed. Uh, you know, thirteen and a half years later, uh, you know, I still wake up, you know, for this interview at six AM. Uh, you know, I finish work at eleven thirty.
I look.
The reality is um
It doesn't change and and
I I don't want it to change in the in the sense of I still love, you know, every week, you know, my my my assistant, now now I can afford to have an assistant.
My assistant really has been able to
Tell me.
In twenty six weeks.
of the year you traveled for twenty
Five weeks.
So because
I need to go to the ground. Um in the early days, you know, I was
By the
large monsoon drains that were really smelly, you know, pounding the table, screaming louder than their competitors to make sure we were recruiting drivers, having, you know, the local uh chocolate milk.
To, you know, uh incentivize them to sign up with us. That hasn't changed. Last week I was still with drivers, learning from them and getting scolded. Not much has changed.
You have so much passion about this and certainly um
Your expectations are are high.
A are you hard to work for?
Like I mean you're demanding

Uh
Uh you know
People would say uh very high intensity. Um
They would say.
You know, I do believe in this concept. I I you know, I I come from a faith that believes that you can come out as a lion and be proud and be fierce and um, you know, you you're willing to chew anything in in your path.
But at the same time also sort of had the humility of a lamb, you know, and and so I always talk about
How do you be?
Really both?
But have tremendous empathy.
A lot of times you're wrong and I'm wrong. Um, and that we are a constant work in progress. So I think it's that it's like showing love all the time and caring for your people uh while at the same time being holding a really high bar because you love them, because you want them to do better.
Because you believe that customers expect much more from us and society wants to see
Many companies that have triple bottom line fail. So you got to prove to them that a triple bottom line company can not only survive, but thrive.

So what's at stake for for Grab right now?
What's at stake? Lots at stake.
We have
Thirteen million.
Drivers and merchants registered on Grab.
We are probably one of the largest
Uh.
Enablers of jobs.
We need to hold ourselves to such a high bar.
We must
drive and help them along this journey.
To really be um
Embrace.
In an AI first in a
In in a
A V hybrid World and the best way is to
Start early.
Invest in them now.
Even before A Vs are here.
and reflect those values in every decision we make.
Every day.
Well, Anthony, this was uh this was great. Thanks so much for doing it and taking the time on an early morning.
No worries, Bob. For you anytime.
When Anthony used the phrase triple bottom line, it struck me how much that concept has gone out of vogue in certain business circles. The idea that a company needs to deliver positive results financially, socially, and environmentally.
I'll be honest that I didn't expect a ride sharing app, even a regional super app, to be quite so focused on succeeding across these multiple goals.
But I think it's a great reminder, especially in twenty twenty five, of the responsibility that business leaders have and the opportunity.
The irony, as Anthony alludes to, is that what's good for society and your people, what's good for the planet and the environment, it's almost always good for your finances too.
Maybe not in the very beginning, but in the long run.
And so, if we want to build a business that stands the test of time, that positively impacts the future.
Why shouldn't triple bottom line be a consideration for everyone?
My humble thought for the day.
I'm Bob Safian.
Thanks for listening.

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