Advice Line with Angie Hicks of Angi

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Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab.
I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you.

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Alright.
Let's get to it.
Joining me this week is Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie, formerly known as Angie's List. Angie, welcome back to the show.
Oh, it's great to be here.
Alright, so you were one of our first guests on how I built this way back in twenty sixteen and uh s
Great episode.
Uh you told a story of how you
You built Angie's list this this database where you could
find reliable contractors and handy men in in you know in in your local area.
Um and of course if you guys have not heard that story, check it out. We'll put a link in the podcast description so you can find it.
Uh but basically back in nineteen ninety five, Angie was in her early twenties, she was going door to door in Columbus, Ohio to sign people up for memberships uh to to the list.
And then people would call in and then
Angie would answer the phone herself and then refer them to
uh like reputable plumbers and roofers, what you know, whatever service provider they needed. And and so that's how it became known as Angie's list.
'Cause you were Angie. They were calling Angie.
right. It's one of those inconsequential decisions. We only had a few members at the time. And it was like when we decided to uh name it Angie's list, I was like we're just in Columbus. What does it matter? Uh and then
You know, down the road it turns into something much, uh much bigger. And and of course I know that the company's now known as just Angie, and you are Angie's
Chief customer officer, um
Um, and so before we bring in our our college, I just wanna start by asking you a couple of questions about what you've been up to lately, because we haven't reconnected in a while. Can you fill us in on
You know, and what your work looks like today as as the head of sort of
Chief customer officer?
Yeah.
I actually love what I do as a chief customer officer. It's it's it's a lot of fun and I really try to bring a human touch to a tech company. I think all too often we live in a world where
We can actually talk to a human being.
Oh, I think
Exactly. I'm like, I think a well placed conversation, building relationships can add a ton of value. So several years ago, I had started doing office hours for our team. When our team got too big that I didn't know everybody, and I'm an introvert, and I'm not one that's gonna go out and say, Hey, what do you
How are things going? What are you working on, et cetera? So I set up office hours uh for employees and they could come, talk about whatever they wanted. It was 15 minutes. Quite honestly, I got more out of it than they did.
And I think it was an important cultural shift.
Um, so about a year and a half ago I decided to open that up to our customers. So now
Any pro in the network can can sign up to chat and we'll do a Zoom call and talk about whatever they want to talk about. And these are these are providers. The pros are the providers. That's right. So plumbers, electricians, all across the country. Anybody can f can up can sign up to talk to you.
Anybody. To Angie.
To me.
Exactly. So if you think about what that does culturally to the organization,
Having accessibility and being able to do that probably just the opportunity brings more value than the than the conversations themselves because they always know they can. Like, have an idea for the business? Tell me directly.
Having a problem, tell me directly. I will help you. And it also helps
encourage the team to solve things throughout the organization as well. And you know, there's there's not uh you know, there's not any problem that I'm not willing to tackle directly.

Angie, tell me about the name change from Angie's list to
Angie. Um what what
What changed uh about the business to kinda warrant that rebrand?
Absolutely. So and it was actually something I had thought about even years earlier than that. You know
It was becoming a situation where we felt like
List probably dated us. You know, we did more than just a list of contractors, you know, we did more than just give you a name. We would actually help you get scheduled and get connected and uh you know take you much further in the process. So we're like, how do we how do we think about modernizing it and
and giving it a fresh name. And so you know we took the same you know, we took approach that many brand take in kind of shortening their names. Lots of brands over you know kind of over time end up shorting shortening their names. So
We went with uh Angie and you know, we dropped the E to make it unique and uh and we had brought together, you know, a couple of different brands. We had merged with a home advisor and there was, you know, kind of s shifting a brand at you know, it was twenty five years old at the time is risky, but it's
It's gonna allow us to be much more simplified, much more streamlined, and put our marketing d dollars behind a single brand.
Yeah.
All right, Angie, why don't we take uh the first call.
Please introduce yourself, tell us your name, uh tell us where you're calling from, a little bit about your business.
Hi, thank you so much for having me. My name is Paige McReynolds. I'm co-founder and CEO of McRay Motocross Co. along with my sister Kelly. We're based out of Southern California. We design and manufacture women's dirt bike gear.
with a mission to address a significant gap in a male dominated industry and hopefully create a community where women actually feel welcomed in in this industry and take some of that intimidation factor away.
Wow, okay, well welcome to the show page. Thank you for calling in. Um, first of all, Dirt Bike, we're talking about like
Motocross like
Those those motorcycles that you'd like see people leaping and dirt and jumping and
That that's what you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. We don't do so much of the jumping and leaping. I we try. We get you know, we try to do a little a little air here and there, but our biggest thing is
There's there's also a world where people just go out and ride recreationally. And so
Our target market is is those women who they're not the pro racers, they're not trying to get sponsored. And my sister and I are here to say,
Hey, that's okay. You can still ride. You can still be a part of the community. There is space for you, and there are other women like you who are in the exact same space.
Okay, so what what's your question that you brought for us today?
Is there an ideal time or a certain milestone that you have to hit or that you should hit before you go
looking or talking about.
to investors.
All right.
First of all.
Um tell me about about women's motocross because I mean it sounds like
There's a community there, but probably not as well known as, you know, the mail writers.
Definitely not as well known. I think there you know, there are definitely women who
Someone like Vicky Golden who is kind of the
Um
What's the right word?
Yes, exactly. Exactly. Everyone looks up to her. Um, she represents women in the industry really well. And I think there's kind of just been this movement over the past few years of giving women more space and more of a voice. And uh we're starting to see a lot more of that through other other brands as well. And it's super exciting just
Uh to have that opportunity and to be a part of that movement.
Got it.
Building up I if I'm if I'm not mistaken, what sounds like a lifestyle brand inspired by
motocross but but
apparel for women.
Yes, specifically our main what started the whole company and the idea was gear. So I had ripped my jersey, we were looking for a new jersey and couldn't find anything that we liked. And it was all, you know.
The men's section would have twenty plus options, and the women's section would have two or three, and they were all black and pink. And I was so frustrated, I
couldn't understand why
There wasn't more for women and
that day I was bored at work. I was in a meeting and I started sketching my dream jersey, what it would look like. And you know, something that you would see
uh on a Nordstrom rack or something that you'd see in Target, you know, those kind of prints and patterns
I sketched it, I looked at my sister and I said
We would wear this.
Uh.
And so our main focus is the gear um for women
of all ages. So when you know a girl who's four or five years old sees a dirt bike jersey that has a unicorn on it or stars or flowers, um, she's immediately thinking
That's for me. That is made for me. So I can participate in this sport as opposed to wearing her brother's hammy downs or, you know, something from the boys section. And so creating
Cute styles that allows women to embrace their femininity, um, to show up authentically, especially in an industry where a lot of the
A lot of the designs and just a lot of the culture is very masculine.
Paige, where are you how are you um how are you funding your business right now?
So up until this point, we have completely self funded the business. Um I
Also have a full time job. I drained my 401k and uh my sister has a job as well. We've gotten a little help from family and friends.
Uh, but that's why that's why I'm here today is to talk about
the the big next step, which is investors.
All right, before we answer your question, I want to bring in Angie Hicks. Angie, I'm sure you've got lots of questions for Paige, so
Let it rip.
So how are you telling your story externally? I think that's like
a bit of your secret sauce is just kind of your passion around this topic. So would love to hear how you are are are leveraging that in in building the business.
Yeah, absolutely. Um, social media has been huge for us. Um, it also was very scary in the beginning because my sister and I are not what we we don't consider ourselves social media people, you know, put quotes air quotes around that. Um
But so instead of
leaning into
the the trends that you see on TikTok, we just decided, let's film us. Let's film our lives and who we are, because this is ultimately, again, it's a lifestyle brand and that's what we're basing this on. So
Telling our own story through those types of things and
Going to events. We go to a lot of events
races, uh trade shows and that to us is
the biggest way that we can be
Face to face with customers, explain our brand and our story, show them what what we're doing and what we want to do, um, but then also
Kind of you know.
The proof is in the pudding. Like we're we're also out there doing it. And so it's not just that we're
Talk in the talk, like we're also
walking the walk. Which I think is
crucial in today's day and age.
People crave authenticity and they want they want realness.
They absolutely do. And I think, you know, some of that same storytelling and kind of
capturing your founder passion will be important in your investor search too because uh you know when it comes down to it, you're looking for someone to invest in you, uh that believes in you. And so kind of getting them to kind of buy into that story will be really important.
Paige, I wanna I I wanna ask you about
where you are right now. You started this in twenty twenty one and I know I've I'm looking at your site and um and it's apparel, right? So sweatshirts and crop tops and and jerseys
Inspired by
by dirt biking, um
What can you give us a sense of sort of roughly what you're doing in revenue right now? Are you have you
cracked fifty thousand, a hundred thousand in sales.
We have not.
But we our f our sales are fifty percent up from last year.
Um and we're
And last year was thirty percent up from the year before. So we're continuously seeing growth, uh, which is extremely promising to us. And I
I think we're in this place where it's
the the chicken or the egg. So we've
received a few opportunities to expand into retail locations, but we don't have
the funding, the product, and the capital to help us get there. And so, you know, and that's where we're trying to figure out like,
People want to see
you've hit, you know, X amount of dollars in revenue and we're like, Well
We can get there. We just need we need the product
To help us get in those stores. It is it is a bit tricky. You know, and I know that you said that you had already started uh raise the money through family and friends. I am all about kind of being a bit incremental in fundraising, right? Like
Raise some kind of prove, raise some more, improve. So you kind of turn fundraising into a journey versus kind of a one off big event. So then it it kind of leads me to, you know, I are there angel investor opportunities. So maybe kind of expand beyond those family and friends.
to potentially an angel investor, someone, you know, dirt biking enthusiast, or someone who likes to invest in women's
you know, kind of startups or things like that. I think there's a couple of paths that you could take there that maybe'cause like how much money are you looking to raise right now? Like what'll what'll get you into that first retail store?
It's not small to us, but fifty to a hundred thousand, which I I think is a in the grand scheme of investing, I think is a
on the smaller side. Right. That's why I'm thinking kind of an angel investor opportunity. You might even be able to find a couple of people that are willing to be like, hey, I like your idea. I could write you know I could write a check for that amount. And then you can kind of prove out from there. But
I think you know the real key and I'm sure guys heard this, you know, in all of his conversations as well, is you know, it's making sure that you get the right fit with that investor, especially an early investor, because they're going to have a lot of influence over the business. So you want to you want to be picky.
Yeah. I know that sounds kind of counterintuitive. You're like, I just need the money, but you're like you gotta balance needing the money with being picky to make sure that you're getting the right partner.
That aligns so much with my sister and I. We've
We are so protective of our brand because
'Cause it is so different than what exists. And I think that's why we've taken a little bit of a slower grow approach over the years. You know, people have said, Well, why don't you pay influencers and why don't you do this? And we said, Well, we only want to do something if it feels right and if it matches our brand to a T and
So the same with investors, you know, listening to the how I built this podcast and you hear some people's stories of
Investment.
P partnerships going wrong and we are terrified that we're gonna partner with the wrong person and it's just gonna tank our business.
I I have two thoughts for you, Paige. The first is uh I'm assuming that probably
A number of the women in motocross are already sponsored by the Red Bulls of the world. But but you know, there we did a story on On Shoes a couple months ago and
They grew that brand, but eventually they partnered with Roger Federer, and that took that brand into the stratosphere. It's the first, really the first shoe brand.
to challenge the dominance of Nike and Adidas, certainly with running.
So there's a world where you
You bring in
Uh a writer.
to be a partner, an equity partner. The second thing I would say, and this is a little tougher, but I'm gonna give you some some feedback that I hope will be helpful and uh it's a little bit
Tough love here, which is
Female motocross.
As um
As a as a market.
is too narrow ultimately, and I'm gonna
I want you to listen to our episode that we did on Black Diamond, the the equ uh uh now
sports company, but it started out as a brand just for mountain climbers. That wasn't enough to build and scale a sustainable brand. They couldn't make it
They eventually had to expand out to skiers. Now it's
all kinds of outdoor gear. And so to me what could work for you is to put together a plan that you bring to some of the angel investors. You say, look, right now we're focused on women's motocross, because that's our core. But down the road we want to focus on women's skateboarders and surfers.
And kayakers and hikers
And all kinds of athletes.
To me, there's an opportunity to think in a much bigger way, even if motocross is the core of what you do and where you start.
In my view, it's not enough to just build a business around that.
category. Angie, I'd be curious to to get your take on this,'cause maybe I'm wrong.
No, no, I think I think you're right. Kinda knowing where you're gonna grow and always having that path is
is gonna be important.
You know, it's it's kind of like hey, if we only thought about plumbers, but gosh, gosh, gosh, people need electricians and roofers and things like that too. So how does that expand beyond because we're we wouldn't have never made it with just plumbers, for example.
Yeah.
Hundred percent agree. I
That's eventually where we would like to go is not just
Uh dirt biking, but fishing,'cause there's no no women's brands in fishing or women's lines. Um
a lot of water sport, so
Um
Whether it's like wakeboarding and snowboarding, like all the things that it just women are it feels like women are put second. So I completely agree. I we
We're itching to get there. It's when we actually started we wanted to do
Everything at once and then we realized
that probably we would lose a little bit of our message and our brand and so we honed in and picked
The one sport.
That we had in common. That's the tribe that you want to start with, the motocross. You really want to go to those events. You want to get these things on
the b bodies of women, right? You want them to wear this stuff. You want to build a c a loyal tribe, but then from there you've got to kinda go to the next circle and the next circle and widen it out. But you could have that plan in place now, even if you don't implement it now.
Um
Angie, you mentioned angel investors and starting potentially starting
that avenue, is there somewhere to go? Like I don't know, is there a hub where you can go and look up Angel Investors, or do you kinda just have to kn know people or where do you start with that?
Yeah, I mean there's both. I mean you're gonna find both kind of networks of angel investors that you can you know you could find online and things like that. But also like think about your own community.
I mean I'm
I'm in Indianapolis and I know that, you know, as you kind of learn about the community, you'll find people that are in your community that are potentially doing angel investing too. And so, you know, kind of balance those two as you kind of network, uh, because it's really about having that strong relationship. So you want to make sure that you've got someone

believed in you can cheer you on and be a real advocate for you as you go along. So kind of developing that personal relationship will be important.
Page McRennes a brand is called McRae.
Good luck.
Cheering you on. Thank you so much.
All right.
Thanks.
What I didn't want to say to her was how scared I would be on a fast motocross bike jumping on the cell phone looks really funny. Totally not me.
Yeah. But I love it. I'm like, you know, now and like
I just like stumble and bang my knee. It takes like six months for that bruise to heal. And I'm only both. Exactly. That that kind of that that that thrill of the excitement is probably in the past. But it's great to watch and it's fun to see her enthusiasm. It is cool, although she was saying that that
They just like to go on the trails, which which actually sounds really fun. Yeah.
We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, another collar, another question, and another round of advice.
I'm Guy Raw, stick around, you're listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.
Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Roz, and my guest today is Angie Hicks. She's the co founder of Angie.
It's a brand you turn to for all of your home improvement and maintenance help. Uh what do you say, Angie? Should we let's
Take another call.
Great.
Welcome to the advice line on how I built this drone with me and Angie Hicks. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and uh just a little bit about your business.
Well, hello Guy. Hi Auntie. I'm Diana O'Connor.
I'm the founder and CEO of West and Table.
We are a Boston based
E commerce platform
that is seeking to change
the way that people
Open their wallet and shop online.
And we have decided that we want this marketplace to be the go to place for living, giving and entertaining.
All right, and you sell sort of home goods, right? Furnishings and and uh and even some
Furniture.
We do we sell very little furniture, to be honest with you. We sell mostly
Table top, um, entertaining things that you need, uh, you know, things that make your house a home.
Beautiful artwork, a ton of vintage items from around the world.
A lot of American and women produced goods.
Oh cool. All right. So it's called Weston Table. You're from you're are you in Weston, Massachusetts? Yes, I am.
I see. Okay, that makes perfect sense now. All right.
From what I understand you launched this in twenty twenty.
Um, were you in that
feel like were you in home home goods and sort of home decor?
Before you started this e commerce business?
No way. I was raising five children, a couple of dogs.
Awesome. So you so you had
you had been raising your kids and
And you
Jump back into sort of
You know
The outside workforce?
I did. I was um uh working for a big investment uh advisor for many years before I had children.
then I stopped working all together to have these five kids, then they started going off to college and I was
You know, somebody who had a lot of energy.
So I said I'm gonna put that everything I learned.
Being a parent to work.
doing a business.
Wow. I just wanna say I love that so much and a and i if you listen to the show, you know how much I love founders.
who are over forty five, over fifty, which is to Cynthia Tice, fifty seven star Lily's chocolates sold it for four hundred twenty five million dollars ten years later. Because people think founders are like twenty two, twenty-three, and it's not true.
Most first time founders average age is thirty nine forty.
You started this business when you were in your fifties. I love that. It's
Awesome. And everybody listening should know
It is never too late.
Never too late, but it just means I need to get there faster. So I'm well on my way. But you have but you're coming with all this experience as a parent, I mean managing a household
You know, talk about real world experience. That's that's no joke.
It is. I uh started with, you know, myself and then another employee and now I'm up to
Ten or eleven.
full time employees plus offshore teams and
It's pretty exciting.
Uh so you started this in twenty twenty and and now
How have you done this all online direct to consumer? It's remarkable.
Well I think we are
Meeting a
A place in the market where people are responding to
Um
they're you know, during Covid people were stuck in their homes and they basically had their husbands and children and Amazon as their best friends. And um
I loved the I and I still love Amazon, but I got to thinking about all the things I missed on the outside world and what I really missed was that beautiful window shopping experience, that sort of casualness of just
you know, making your house a home by going out into the world and finding things that speak to you in your travels, in your life. Um and I wanted to
take my artistic talent and turn it into a website.
All right, so before we bring in Angie, um, what is the question you brought for us today?
Well, I guess I uh Angie, I'm I'm super curious because I know there came a point when you decided you guys in order to enter, you know, some of these bigger places
You needed to take on investors.
I'm a national brand.
Already.
How do you make that decision?
to give some of the control, or do I even have to give some of that control?
To someone else.
To really
skyrocket this into the next level.
Hm.
All right. Angie, um
First of all.
Thoughts or questions for Diane?
When you say you want to when you want to give up control, is it are you thinking about fundraising? Are you thinking about kind of running the business? Like which area are you s are are you kind of contemplating the most right now?
Well, I think it th this is a really deep question for me because at my heart I'm a creative person. I was trained as a financial person, but my heart is with the creative and in order to really see the dream
completely come to fruition
I need to spend more time finding ways to entertain people. And that's really difficult when I'm
CFO, CEO, um HR.
Um, in finding a way that I could focus
on what I'm really good at.
And give up the things I'm not good at.
And by finding a partner or an investor that would take this journey along with me, like you said, you have to be
Careful about who you pick, but is it necessary?
You know, like when's the right time?
Diane, what can you do you mind letting t giving us a sense of what your revenue is right now?
Just five million.
Wow. Okay, so you've really
Scale this quickly, which is awesome.
Uh are you talking about I mean, in your perfect world
Would you want to have a CEO and and and that would free you up?
to kind of focus on the on the creative side and and the things that maybe
You enjoy doing more?
Yes.
A hundred percent.
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's important to know. Like knowing what you're good at, knowing what you want to do. I mean you commented that you came out of finance, like
I know it's easy for you to do the books.
But it's not necessary for you to do the books. You need to be able to read them, understand them, and I have no concern that you're gonna be able to do that. No one's pulling anything over on you.
But just because you can doesn't mean you should.
So, you know, finding people that can kind of take some of those tasks off of your plate that just allows you to do things. My my best example is
Um I used to buy all of our media.
Because I could.
I was getting ready to have my second child, and my second child was born in the spring when I would buy all the media. And you know, I was gonna take a whopping six weeks off uh with my new one.
And so I had to give someone else that job.
And you know, that break and ha being forced to make that decision was one of the best things that happened. We got better rates because she just wanted to make sure she kind of knocked it out of the park.
And
I didn't buy media anymore, which meant I could spend my time doing things that were more valuable to the organization.
The cool thing is is I think we're at a space right now where if we brought someone in and they wanted to be a partner, and I mean a true partner, an investor partner, somebody who's willing to put what I've put into the business.
Um and do that.
as an equal
I it's kind of exciting to me. I have people in my family saying, No, no, no, keep it as a family business and I'm like, Yeah, but you don't have to run it. So you know, you don't have a say right now because
You're not doing the heavy lifting here.
I I think that it's it's an interesting
Um I mean th they they're interesting arguments on both sides, right? Like we
We did an episode with uh Mike Snyard, who started specialized bikes and it it was really a f uh you know, he ran it for a long time and then it he he
was encouraged to bring in professionals to scale it, and that did not work out well at all. It almost tanked the company. This is a cautionary tale. And he went back and retook it, retook it over, and now he, you know, he and then he went back to running it. But we've plenty of examples where people brought on
uh others w uh operators who had different skill sets and really were able to realize the vision

And to
take it to the next level. And I think that
To me it's a it's that balance. It's like
interviewing, spending time with that person
Months maybe, having lots of conversations.
But then also building in the infrastructure that incentivizes that person to stay and realize the vision and the project. I mean, we had this story with Kava.
Uh Kava is now a national food brand. The three, you know, the original founders were you know Greek American buddies who had a restaurant.
Uh, and eventually, uh, you know, many years into the business when they were kind of
You know, small scale.
They found somebody who
wanted to join them and he helped scale that business
into a national brand and it's been f a phenomenal partnership for all of them.
Mm.
It's exciting to think that that's the direction that we're headed in.
And watching Angie
start at the very bottom in a hundred square foot.
I don't know, office space and I think, Yeah, you know, I've got about a hundred square feet here. There is definitely
excitement for the future, but find the partner I think is is
Yes.
Definitely it. It sounds Angie to me that you found a partner right off the bat.
I did. I did. My uh so I had my co founder and then he eventually joined the business as the CEO about three years after we started. So, you know, i I had an easier path on that journey because I had an advisor that was, you know, wanting to step in. So that worked out perfectly and kind of let him kind of take that kind of scale and
And let me focus on the things that I enjoyed focusing on. So it was a good balance. You know, one thing you might also think about as you're kind of talking about this interviews, I mean, if you're looking for a CEO, maybe, you know, like
You could go out looking for a CEO or you could go out looking for like a chief operating officer and finding someone that can kinda come in
And then you know, kind of
work their way into the business and then, you know, maybe, you know, in a couple of years they take that CEO seat as you guys develop comfort around that as well.
Indeed,
Diana O'Connor.
The company, the brand is called Weston Table.
Um, congrats on your success. Good luck. It sounds like you are well on your way to scaling this thing.
Well when I am
Scaled. I hope you have me back as a guest again. I hope so too. Thank you so much, Angie. I am a big fan.
Oh, thank you. Thank you, Dane. Best of luck. Thank you. Take it easy.
Bye, guy. Thank you.
Bye.
Yeah.
I uh it's amazing how like little I and I'm I'm gonna sound like a complete
You know
caveman here, but how like little things like a a tablecloth or table mats just like completely transform a room, which I've just discovered because we just got a bunch of them on our dining room table and I noticed that something was different. I said, Oh this dining room table is so good I said to my wife, she said, Yeah, because new table mats or placemats
Right. I think sometimes people think they have to go big to make a big difference, and it's sometimes just the littlest things.
I mean if I lived by myself I would just have like
I don't know, some cardboard boxes and IKEA couches, but we have like blankets draped over the sofa.
Or like strategically placed pillows that I would never think of, but they look really nice. They look really good. They do. Right. They do.
Alright, we're gonna take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us, I'm Guy Roz, and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab.
Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking calls with Angie Hicks of Angie.
Uh let's bring in our next caller. Hello.
Collar, welcome to the advice line. Please tell us your name, uh where you're calling from, and uh just a little bit about your business.
Hey Guy and Angie, thank you so much for having me. My name is Keisha and I am from Kansas City.
And my business is Bridge the Gap Spanish and what we do is we help adults learn Spanish. So we match our learners with native speakers to provide opportunities to practice and improve Spanish conversation. And then we also provide grammar and language coaching to help during their journey.
Awesome, and welcome to the show. This is all online.
Yes, it's all virtual, all a line.
And so tell me a little bit about how you started this this business.
So I actually learned Spanish through an immersion program in Oaxaca, Mexico.
And I did that program right after college. And I had the amazing opportunity when I was there to start teaching ESL, English as a second language, and I fell in love. Like I didn't know what a passion was until I started teaching English. And I was like, this is it. This is what I was born to do.
And so when I moved back to the States, I helped a nonprofit in my area start their ESL program. And I realized, hey, I could be doing this on my own and helping people learn Spanish. Um, and I just saw a gap with um adults who were learning Spanish, but didn't feel confident speaking.
speaking it. And so for me, I had the opportunity to go and be immersed in everything like that. But for them, well you can't you can't pick up and go to another country. So anyways
I decided to help fill that gap with that. That's right. Awesome. Tell me a little bit about how the business model works. H how do you is it is a monthly fee, is it and and how many classes do you get a week? And yeah.
Yeah, so it is um month to month for our learners. We match them with a native speaker, um, and then they pay month to month to meet with that native speaker one to four times a week, depending on the package that they choose. And then the grammar and the coaching really automatically comes with the program. So we don't charge extra for that.
Got it. And uh from what I understand you kind of
really la relaunch this earlier this year. So still early days.
Yes. Um how I mean how are you how how have you been able to find
Customer students.
Yeah, so that's really um how we relaunched is because um be f I I had started it technically in twenty twenty, but wasn't getting any traction. And what it reminded me of when I listened to Angie's uh how I built this was
automatically this one thing brought in tons of customers for you. I believe it was an ad or something like that. And so for me it was Instagram at the beginning of the year.
All of a sudden I s well at the end of
twenty twenty three, I started using Instagram. I was like, man, okay, I you know, let me make some ads and
The ads just started bringing in new clients and it was just like, Okay, this is something, I've got something here.
Amazing.
Tell us what your question is for for us.
Yeah, so my question is really what to prioritize during
periods of growth because I feel like especially this year as I've grown so much, I went from about five clients to now about twenty eight. Wow. And it's just like
Okay, like now I need to do this and do that. And it's just so much at once. So how do you prioritize during moments of growth with so many moving pieces?
Cool. All right, we'll get to your question in a sec. Angie
Imagine you've got some questions for Keisha.
Yeah, so so tell me, explain to us like how you're spending your time now. Like how do how do you break down your time? I think that would be helpful.
Yeah, that's a really great question. So I actually spend my a lot of my time um focusing on
the interaction with new clients. So um really
A lot of quite a bit of time on Instagram because that's where we've gotten most of our clients from. So making new reels and things like that and reaching out and making sure that they can reach out to us. Um and then I also spend a lot of my time communicating with current clients. So obviously I want to make sure that they're fulfilled. So
um meeting one on one with some of our grammar students. Um, I realized very early on that I can't meet with everyone. So I just started making grammar videos. And so that's where I spend a lot of my time is on those two pieces.
Um Keisha, uh I'm curious about
Before we get into to sort of your question.
Tell me a little bit about um how you are differentiating what you offer from I mean, there are
You know, there are big companies out there that have been around for a long time. I think of like Itaki, I think it's called, that offer one on one online training um in many, many languages with people around the world.
So how do you what are you offering to attract people to your
to to what you're offering.
that makes it that makes it more appealing.
Honestly, I feel like it's how we tailor the program to each individual learner. So a big piece of our program is the coaching aspect because all of our learners are adults. But what we what I feel like we do that's special is we really hone in on
What's going to be best to help you learn not just in the class, but even outside of the class? And how can we coach you?
through that and making you more comfortable to speak Spanish outside of just your classroom. Um and then I think the other thing that makes us different is we match our learners. So we so typically with those programs you can pick like, oh this is the person that I want to work with and you know I like this about them.
But I meet with every single prospective student and I say, Okay, let me learn more about you. Then I specifically match them with a native speaker that I think will work best with them.
And do you know how long your students typically do you have enough history with students yet to kind of get a sense? Is this something that someone does for
A month, three months, six months, you know,'cause that'll h also just help you kind of think about how you can
scale your marketing if you know what basically the you know, the lifetime value of that customer's going to be.
Yeah, that's a really good point. And I think that that's something that I need to think about as I'm, you know, working on this. But most of our learners, they stay with us for at least
uh I would say at least four months. And we have many of our learners that say even m six months or more.
Okay.
Because then that allows you to start thinking about ways that you can market. You're like, hey, if I can spend, you know
Ten percent of the revenue I'm gonna generate over four months to acquire a customer. I'm just kind of making this up as off the cuff here, you know.
Then you can start thinking about what types of marketing vehicles you might want to exp explore. Cause it feels like you're at the point where like, hey, I feel like I have a model that's working as far as I've got once they're in
I like the high touch experience and the kind of the custom matching that you're doing and those types of things. So
So now's the question is like how do you how do you go from thirty students to sixty students to a hundred and twenty students?
Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. So I'm curious
Question for you, um uh Angie. I'm curious to know
When you were in the early days with uh with Angie's list
What percentage was going towards acquiring new members versus like helping those who were currently with you? Because I think that's where my struggle is. Like
Yeah. Um, so so we we did have the benefit. We patterned Angie's list after another business that had been around for about seventy years. So we had the benefit of understanding that business model and we ended up buying that company. So in that scenario, we knew these paid members were gonna stick around for, you know, kind of
five years, six years. So we could build out a pretty robust L T V.
uh lifetime value. And then, you know, I I use ten percent. That was about what we were spending to acquire a new homeowner. We're like, hey, we'll spend ten percent up front. And we knew we were underwater when we did that in year one
Uh, for sure, but we knew as we scaled that that
th we had kind of a a a path on that money that we knew that it was going to return. And we were very diligent about making sure we were proving that out.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I think for me like be being so in the early days, like
like figuring out those models, I think it's gonna be very central. Yeah. Um so yeah, that's a great point.
Tell me a little bit about what you're doing on social media. Are you making videos?
I am. That's what was the game changer for me. I was I used to just make

kind of videos with words and things like that, but then I
you know, suddenly decided one day, hey, I'm gonna put my face on h on here. And people loved that. And so yeah, I'm typically sitting at a computer and it's a reel that says something about, Hey, have you been struggling with your Spanish?
Like
you know, check our program out. Or
Different point of views and things like that.
I wonder if you also think about um
You know,
If the videos are working and you as the speaker on the videos, what about having a uh a quick snippet of a student and one of the native speakers? I mean, you wanna kinda get to the kind of what's the difference.
Yeah. In your program. And I think what you're saying kind of our s your secret sauce is the fact that it's it's it's very much tailored and kind of focused on kind of
Real world.
And so how do you show that? That's becomes my question. So I'm wondering if there's a chance for you to think about almost a testimonial type thing, but not a testimonial because I think it the the real secret here is actually the interaction between the the
The coach and the and the student.
Mm-hmm. So kind of
you know, giving someone a glimpse of what it was like for them to be a learner. Right. So that they can have something to compare it to when they're out looking at kind of competitors that they might be using. It's like what makes you different?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So a quick question for you guys. Um, now, so I mentioned that Instagram has been my main source of clients recently.
How do I know when to pursue other avenues like diversifying my marketing? Because right now I feel like I'm getting most of my learners from there. So should I wait till that's tapped out or should I try and diversify right now and
Do other things or
How should I navigate that?
I never give up on something that works.
Okay. But you should always be testing into the next thing.
So, you know, so if it's one of those where it's like, Hey, this really works, so maybe you're spending eighty or ninety percent of your marketing dollars there because you can just kind of it's it's performing.
But you always wanna be thinking about what's next.'Cause you know, marketing moves fast and you don't want to get caught flat footed. So you wanna know kind of what your you wanna have a handful of vehicles that work well.
Okay.
Well that's helpful. Um and I've
Yeah, that's something the project I need to work on is figure out what those other avenues could be for us right now.
Yeah, and it could be other social media.
I mean it could be they're like, Okay, now I'm gonna try TikTok next, or I'm gonna try YouTube, or whatever it I mean. So it doesn't have to be kind of like I'm going completely different uh kind of vehicle, but just make sure that you're you've got some portion of your budget into exploring.
Mm. Yeah, having a little fun fun exploratory budget. Exactly.
I love it.
Keisha
Uh good luck. The brand is called Bridge the Gap Spanish. Uh
Or we'll be turning you on and can't wait to see what you do.
Thank you so much. Thanks for calling in. Thanks.
All right.
Um, it's really amazing how
All of these
opportunities have cropped up in the last, you know, ten years and and really I've I mean my kids do online
Language. Um
We went to Italy this summer, my wife, who's super disciplined, did three months of Italian.
Uh, with somebody in Italy at like six in the morning, like
Three times a week before we went to Italy.
Oh my gosh. That's awesome. I'm like we're we're looking to go to France, uh in the spring. And I think I am the only family member that has any French and it's you know, it's it's a good thirty five years old. So if it's left to me
We're we're out of luck.
Yeah. So maybe one of my one of my kids will decide to to help us out. Yeah.
For sure.
Um, Angie, before um
Before I let you go, I I I want to ask you about
something that I I you know I I ask a lot of guests who come on the show, which is
You know, you've you're coming to the table with so much experience now and and and so
You have the benefit of perspective and hindsight, which is by the way, anyone listening, this is why we very rarely have guests on the show who are under thirty. Because not not that they're not smart or interesting and even if they made hundreds of millions of dollars,
it's just y you can't buy time. You can't buy like life experience. And so we we often will say, Hey come back and let's talk to you when you're forty, right? And we've made a couple of exceptions, but generally
It's that time scale that we're looking for. You have it.
Right. And so I wonder when you think about
You know, looking back at where you started and where you were, what do you
Uh is there anything you wish
You'd known back then.
Or that would have been helpful for you when you were starting out.
That's
That
You know, could have
I don't know.
Tough moments?
Yeah, I mean I think part of it is just like
being open to learning new things. I think we stress too much about things. Most of the things we worry about don't come to pass. Yeah.
And I think especially as a young person, I'm like, are there things I wish I knew more of? I'm like, uh, if I would have known more about business, I might have bailed, right? Because I was like I knew I was doing there was a bit of ignorance as bliss, but I think
You know, not taking things too seriously sometimes. Uh, you know, I t I tell the team a lot, and I have for years, I'm like, We're not running the ER.
Yeah.
No one's dying here. So let's let's kind of let's not make these decisions so so heavy. Uh let's not stress so much because we need to, you know, kind of make our decisions and move on and you know kind of learn from them.
Yeah.
For sure. Um, Angie Hicks?
Co founder of Angie.
Thank you so much for coming on the advice line.
Thanks guy, it was great to reconnect.
And by the way, if you guys haven't heard Angie's original How I Built This Episode, gotta go back and check it out. You can find a link to it in the podcast description, and here is one of my favorite moments.
From that interview.
People started calling you and and you are the only person manning the phones?
I literally in like a hundred square foot office space.
Like we didn't have a phone system, we had a phone. And so when we needed a second line, we got a second phone.
So there I I do remember times where I'd be like sitting on the floor in the office, literally like toggling between two physical phones with no hold button.
Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at gyras.com.
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and leave a message there, and we'll put all this in the podcast description as well.
This episode was produced by Chris Massini with music composed by Ramteen Arablui.
It was edited by John Isabella.
Our audio engineer was Cina Lafredo.
Our production team also includes Alex Chung, Carla Esteves, Elaine Coates, JC Howard, Katherine Seifer, Carrie Thompson, Sam Paulson, Devin Schwartz, and Neva Grant.
I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to the advice line.
Right here on how I built this lab.