#700: Guy Laliberté, Founder of Cirque du Soleil — The Power of Belief, Street Gangs, Wild Tales from Las Vegas, The Dangers of Nurturing Fear, and Dancing on the Cliff

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3:28 Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU, and Australia. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. And then I'll see you personally quite. No, it is seen. My cybernetic organism living tissue over metal and the skeleton. Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs, this is Tim Ferris. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferris Show, where it is my job each and every episode to deconstruct world class performers to tease out the backstories, the frameworks, the philosophies.

4:10 the tactics and so on that you can apply to your own lives. And my guest today has been in the works for a long time. I'm thrilled to have him. And if I'm not mistaken, this is his first long form podcast ever. G La liberté. who is the founder of Cirque de Soleil, One Drop Foundation, and Lun Rouge. If I'm pronouncing that correctly, my apologies for

4:32 The French, which I do not speak. He was named by Time Magazine as one of the most influential personalities in the world and has been recognized as one of the most creative and innovative minds by Condé Nast. An artist, entrepreneur, and philanthropist, Guy is a three time winner of the Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award, which included World Entrepreneur of the Year. He is a knight of the National Order of Quebec and an inductee of the Canadian Business Hall of Fame. He has been granted the insignia of the Order of Canada, the highest distinction in the country, and in 2010 received his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Guy now dedicates his time to his company. Lun Rouge and his international nonprofit One Drop Foundation, which aims to ensure sustainable access to safe water, sanitation, and hygiene for communities everywhere through innovative partnerships, creativity, and the power of art. This is a Wild conversation full of a lot of unbelievable stories.

5:25 And we take a few minutes to warm up, but definitely stick around. There's a lot to learn. There are many, many negotiation tactics, philosophical tenets, and more that you can pick up from this conversation. You can find him on Instagram at GuyLa Liberté DJ, and you can find his new projects. Which are brand new projects. And they will contain descriptions of some different projects that we allude to at the end of the conversation, and that is frugs. F R O O G S dot com and you can get to the English with slash E N. So frugs.com slash E N.

6:05 And without further ado. Please enjoy. A very wide ranging, very tactical, very hilarious conversation with Guy La Liberté

6:17 Thank you for making the time. I know you are a man on the road. You are a man on the move, which I suppose would be On brand, as I did research. For this conversation, you seem like a very hyper kinetic man. And I thought we might start in nineteen seventy seven. I might be getting the date right. I might be getting the date wrong. A trip to Europe.

6:39 What prompted This trip to Europe. And what was your experience? To understand this desire uh hitting the road and engaging that journey which was a very Important

6:51 moment or year of my life. We have to go back a little bit in my childhood. There's always that famous question that adult ask to kids. What do you want to do when you're An adult. Mm-hmm.

7:02 And my answer back then was, Well, I wanna discover uh the world and I wanna travel. And that came from tree very important key moment in my life. The first one was That was the day of When my father brought the first

7:16 Caller TV in the Hot Wiss. And the first programme we'll watch was uh National Geographic. Program. That showcase basically Something I've never seen in my life, which was

7:28 animals that doesn't exist in my own town or my country, colours of skin or dressing of people. So I was just like So amazed by this Colorful impact. that did have on me, that was like triggered my curiosity.

7:43 And it stays at that moment, it that grows slowly. And obviously I was a big fan of those national geographic every time it was coming and it was like, Yes, I wanna see what's more on this planet. Actually at that time it made me realise and my mom explained me and said, Listen, You're not only living in a city or a province or in a country or on a continent, you're living on a planet. And that made me realise that The world was bigger than my backyard.

8:08 Second thing. Nineteen sixty seven. Which was the World uh expo. And Montreal.

8:15 My mom, another very curious person, I bother For the family passport. And almost every day of the summer she was bringing us to this international expo and We visit Pretty much.

8:28 Probably minimum of three time each. each pavilion that was there, which again was putting me closer To work. being in touch with the culture that was seeing and and and the national geographic so

8:42 Kind of not where they were. But Close to me. In a way that again it Reinforced his desire of

8:50 discovering what was out there somewhere. I didn't know the notion of distance, but I knew it was far away. And the third thing is with I think put the cherry on the Sunday was when Neil Armstrong walked the moon. I was in the summer camp. Black and white T V that time.

9:06 Bunch of boys because it was a boys uh camp. And we spend the entire night and and it was a long program because it's uh they showed up all the process, the expectation was there and solidly. This guy put a foot on the moon. And it was very interesting because you could see the reaction of the other kids. And even

9:26 Telling, wow, I wanna be an astronaut, I wanna do, I wanna go on the moon, I wanna do what it's doing. And for me My look at that moment was totally different. It was like Whoa. The little prince story could be real.

9:41 No, it's very interesting. And then it triggered my belief that If I have a dream or anything that was Dreamy. could be achievable. So from that moment

9:51 It was really okay. How could I shape? My rest of my life. to be able to travel and discover that world. So obviously I was about ten, eleven at that time and I was still too young to get the road by myself.

10:06 Soon my parents were bringing us more in North America. And Around the age of fourteen, fifteen. We did our first international trip to Cuba. And then

10:18 This is why discover green tomato. Beautiful long legs woman dancing uh dance that doesn't exist in my place. Colorful music, happy dancing, so it's just like wow. and blue collar, the ocean of the the sea and the ocean and fish that doesn't exist in the lake. And it was just yes, I knew it.

10:39 Here it is, the beginning of a great adventure. But at that time, you know, obviously um I was a minor So I really start to engage in discovering my province It Chai King going in the theater festival, music festival. In the same time I pick up the accordion of the family of my father because I come from a family of musician, but traditional music and

11:00 I started. to realize that maybe I could activate a little bit this adventure, this venture using music. So I took the time to Prepare a little show of myself, saying songs, storytelling, music, and then Short after connecting with a couple of other musicians, creating a band.

11:21 And that I for three years permitted us to travel around Canada and a little bit of the States to encounter other musicians, to play on the street, play in a music festival. So I realized that hey, listen, I could have fun. Playing music. I discovered through this journey the beginning of the pleasure of entertaining people. But mostly I was able to always go further and further geographically. And then obviously after a couple of years.

11:47 eighteen years old was uh coming soon and it was just like I'm going to Europe. And I had enough money to pay myself uh open tickets for a year. And I have about fifty bucks in my f my in my pocket. But an amazing number of contact that either had met over The previous three years or people that have been in Europe say you should go uh

12:09 in this bar to play, you should meet that person. He's an interesting musician and went out hit the road And basically uh spend Almost a year in Europe discovering and the pleasure of playing in the street, realizing the impact of making people smile. But mostly I was achieving my dream.

12:28 And I came back with more money in my pocket than I left with. You came back with more money. Then you travelled there with So I assume and please correct me if I'm wrong, that means you're busking and entertaining And earning money in that way. What were the keys to good busking?

12:44 What did you learn about effective busking? First of all, where do you busk? Because it's not every corner of the street that you can make your get your bread and breakfast money. So one of them is really to Rapidly identify in a city where's the hot spot for people to busk. Okay. And obviously there's already busker when he arrives, so you don't invent the wheel.

13:07 It's just observed thing. But then you have to deal with Territorial. situation. So you have two way of dealing with that. Either you Provoke and you confront with normally is not the right way to do.

13:18 Or you engage. You engage in the street neighborhood, which is not always Busker, but it's also uh a a lot of different people of all kind. Very colorful, very uh misfit people, very disrupting people, but also amazing personality because a lot of artists are there, musicians. So you engage in a community that belong to this

13:40 The city but what I realize is basically there's Two things the bus can business in in in Europe. It was the Permanent people. The people who live in that city that didn't move and there were the

13:52 The one that was there every day, but there was the travelling people. Rapidly recognize that If you play the game well, if you're socially engaged and uh and respectful of certain Rules. that exists and you have to learn about them.

14:06 Then you engage in a community that is really supporting of each other. And then you make friends and then you decide with the traveler when to do uh I don't know a Two weeks with the Violin player or uh A week with the belly dancer, uh saying or the fire breeder. So

14:23 Through this experience, it's not only encountering a community That was much bigger. in Europe that it was in Quebec. 'Cause you know, obviously Quebec we have the climate factor. Which is

14:34 A little difficult to bus, uh at minus thirty uh the corner of the street of Montreal. So the timeline is pretty limited and also the population is much smaller. Paris was my base at the beginning, this is where I speak French, arrive there. And from Paris I then I start met a lot of people And then you start to engage. Okay, do I go to Ireland, do I go to that festival? And I kind of like organically, the rhythm or the speed of the wind, you know, it's like oh, I was waking up in the morning, I was like, Okay, let's go there, it's chiking. Again, depending on the success of each site, you could arrive on time or not.

15:08 So it was this journey. Uh Going from one place to the other one. with people who are alone and uh and making friends and uh engaging jamming, making money, learning. This is where I learn all my fire breeding things, the a little bit of the performance size of a busker because there's a music side.

15:27 And there's a performing side. So this is where that I start to also engage in uh Learning. You know, I've never been a specialist of things, but I always been a very good generalist. Time after time I was

15:40 practicing things and and basically my offer to the street was a little wider at the end after a year. So let's talk a little bit about your mom and dad. How did your values differ from perhaps your parents When you got back.

15:55 maybe a different way of looking at that would be asking what their hopes for you were. And then what your hopes for yourself were. First of all, my parents were Amazing characters to start. They were entertaining, not knowing they were entertaining my father probably a little bit more. My mom my father had this way of triggering reaction with my mom and it was create uh

16:14 Amazing Funny, dramatic moment. That was trigger their own story to be shar with us, with ch the children and my friends. They were entertaining us all the time. My mom come from a very specific type of family. Both of them were very poor.

16:29 My mom worker ass out to be a nurse. Hit the road at the age of eighteen. She had a Stud Baker at eighteen, hit the road to California as an adventure with two other nurse. Work all it musician piano player. My father come from the other side, he was coming from a neighborhood in Quebec, which is like bunch of kids hustling. Playing tricks.

16:50 having fun and getting away with it by just Bang. With some. People would think bad little boys. But they were having fun and actually it was the uh another wheeler of the year, he always made his way.

17:03 got broke so many times because was a gambler. But You know? He was the most amazing entertainer he ended up his career as vice president of a Alcant company, not because he was former one at school on that. But because it was the best person in the company, when client international client was coming to Montreal.

17:23 He was organizing all the party. And all the client was going back signing the contract. And whatever need he was organizing it. So I learned this things. And by the way. And this is pretty special because I not met many people who qualify in that. In all my life. And many years after I grew up or uh

17:44 Still now. I never heard a bad word about my father. With always Gaston. Clone. Amazing guy. My father was always smiling. It was always like

17:55 humor, smiling, not reacting to things. Where my mom was that little uh Scorpion, she was pigging pickings. It was mama controlled and the dynamic was interesting, but I grew up in this type of family, one brother when we were fire and water together, but now we're best friends because we're both parents with pass out the last year. And then the grand family My father was coming from a family of Eight, seven sister and him.

18:23 And the grandmother had the twins so together, you know, on the father side family there was about Over a hundred twenty people, uncle, aunt and things, and every weekend. And one of the house, and nobody had money. Nobody was the rich one. The richest one was uh the uncle that uh the uh printer uh company was printing uh pamphlet and stuff like that. Tell you a little bit. How rich we were, but every weekend.

18:48 Somewhere. In one of the house. There was always from Friday night to Sunday night. Forty eight hour party. I remember we this Sleeping on the floor, ten kids, spy on that.

19:00 They were doing music, play cards, have fun, drinking, getting drunk, singing, arguing. And All my life I've seen that family supporting each other w in terms of when one of them was screening up, there was never judgment. And you know, this is what I grew up on. So my

19:18 Roots. It's love. Support is community spirit. It's like understanding that Nobody's perfect. So I learned a lot out of that. I didn't understand it at the beginning.

19:29 You know, because obviously When you grow especially at the teenager moment, then it's starting to be a little confrontation and there's many stories I could tell, but I don't think it's relevant. More than Saying In their heart. They try to educate you, the parents, in in terms of what they believe is a good thing for you based on their value. So at my time of my childhood,

19:49 Being a doctor, being uh Judge or whatever. was the consecration. You know, you're an engineer you're you're you get a good salary, you have security. And I was trying all my life to my teenager moment to try to explain well, listen, I have a call. I just like I don't like that. And every time I do that, I learn more, I have fun doing that. I do more money than that than now than I'm doing. Yeah. Build up, you know, I wanna have long hair, now you have to short it down, you have to go to church.

20:18 All this type of things. So I was very confrontational. And actually they helped me because when they were punishing me, they were putting me into my room. And this is where I learned music. This is where practicing my music by rage. I was transferring my rage in in not being dark. That being said, I I was in a dark moment from eleven to fourteen for

20:37 Other reason. But when my parents was all that then I left home at fourteen years old. It was enough is enough. one amazing moment in my life. One teacher, moral science, because you couldn't have the option of uh Catholic, you know, or moral science. Obviously I was Rejecting uh

20:53 the religion, but that was interesting again, in a moral sense. And then one day. if throw a tax to all the students there. The text was about Kale Gibran. The Prophet.

21:04 Yeah, I have a coffee at home. The page about the children. I said the children are not your children. I was just like it blew my mind. That text was everything I want to say to my parents. Mm.

21:16 So I think within a week or two weeks after I got in conflict with my parents. And Left own. Hit the road.

21:24 'Cause they want me to cut the hair and it was another thing. And I took the page And I wrote on the piece of paper when you will understand that. Meaning of that text. will be able to communicate. That's pretty brutal at 14 years old when you throw a text like that in the face of your father and mother.

21:40 And actually It was a very important moment in my relation. The first like This is where the first time I stand by my my thing. Before I was arguing, I was screaming, I was like. Bitching. But this is really what I say. Enough is enough. We have to make a point on our relationship because I'm not happy. I'm at the point I'm questioning if you love me.

21:59 You know, all the teenager turmoil. You know, this is a very Being a a a teenager This is the most fragile time in your life if you've not been I criss sexually before the A Thans or beat up. But if you have a normal life, this is a very fragile moment. So

22:14 Obviously came back, my mom was crying and stuff like that. Came back like Ten days after and then I sat down and said, Let's make a deal. We don't agree a lot of things. But I will continue my school. You pay for my lunch, my my clothes. But I wanna be having the right of

22:30 Keeping my hair long. And second, work. True. Earn my own money. To pay

22:37 Myself what I want because I'm tired, Dad. Of every time I ask you something, you ask me to do something for it. And enough. You know, because sometime things could go there because I'm trying to ask you things to be able to achieve things, but it's always a negotiation. And you try to bring back in your way of of things. So I cleared that and it worked. Actually that deal worked pretty good because

22:59 Without supporting everything I was doing. It was at least a dialogue that took place. And there was some up and down. But I realize And this is where the first thing I realize is

23:11 Actually at the end, all this courage that I have Going and hitting the road, taking risks. In my adventure. I always knew somewhere. And I realised that after

23:23 And it's maybe that subconscious or this third eye or sixth sense or whatever, but I realized that hey, wait a minute. I knew and I know exactly what they were about. They never told me if you cross that door, don't come back. First of all. You know, and you know how many parents screwed up when they said that to their

23:40 Kids. And second I realize that if I screwed up I will always be able to come back. I will have a bad food. And love. And come forth.

23:50 And this uh trigger this enormous wave of courage the desire to even engage more. They didn't know that at the moment. They think I was crazy because I was doing more That was the win previously. And then obviously there was this confrontation about

24:05 starting to do business and entertainment because it was one thing for them to understand that I was using art or music to live an experience. In our conversation I always made them believe that I will come back to school, but I was always every year extending the return to school. But when they realize When they realized that I was shifting and I consciously made the decision to not go to school. But give myself the chance to live out an entertainment wall.

24:34 That was difficult. But my mom. It took The first year of Signa Salah to realize it and she collapsed in law and now I understand. My father it took three more years because it was still some issue related to

24:47 I reach him a couple of times for financial help to help to go through some tough moment and it was coming back with his old uh moral or condition, and it pissed me off. But we had a great conversation in a steakhouse Moshe's in Montreal, a good bowl of wine and with a big deal pickle and koshlas and And We make peace there, and that from that moment.

25:08 I brought them everywhere in the world with me. We became good friends. We had the up and down, but it was an amazing uh Connection, you know, in the life of a children. Or any relationship with parents or not, you know. Obviously it's not instant, but You always wish that the

25:24 complete connection of the circle of this relationship is done before one of us die. And I did accomplish that with my parents and this is another Beautiful gift of life that I am. I may want to come back to that. I mean I know a lot of people who have not been able to do that. That may be for a bottle of wine another time, but

25:41 I wanna connect the dots to Cirque du Soleil, but before we get there, if you're open to talking about it, and we can always cut this afterwards if you want to cut it, but you mentioned That you had a dark period from eleven to fourteen. And my main question is how you got out of that dark period, but would you be willing to say A bit more than I've been. I could share. I could share. I've been sharing, uh people. Uh yeah, yeah, it's part of my life. My close friends know and I have no problem talking about that. And that's actually related to a very big problem in the world that we're living and it's coming out and keep coming out year after year which is all about this Catholic Church.

26:14 Controlling schools. Abusing children. And being excused because they were the voice of God. At the end of ten, my parents sent me to high school in the college in Montreal, which I was uh

26:27 Boarding school and Obviously soon I realize with my friends that a bunch of priests that wanna uh ab ab abuse you sexually. So I resist that, I beat that up. But I had a friend who suicides off and I and so I start to be very, very reactive and it brought me A lot of angriness.

26:47 Because you know, what does the feeling first year is this. I've not been raped. But I've been they've tried it. And I Got their trick, I resist, I filed it back.

26:55 But there's some other kids there that didn't have this courage of reacting and they were my friends and they They got beat up in the sense of of uh it killed their soul and and then one suicide itself. So Obviously, and I was incapable of saying to my parents at that time, remember I was ten years old, eleven. And knowing my parents were religious.

27:14 So obviously Will I be punished or would that I I didn't know. I was confused about the information and I guess There was a taboo things because I see my parents were very religious. I was confused, so I kept that for myself and among my s my friends. So I build up this

27:30 desire to destroy. To the point of Sulma that even Because of another event later I left. Two event a little bit like that. And the last one which is kind of like the add-on of that.

27:42 I arrive to a point where I'm gonna kill. The person. And actually I was not feeling that. So That dark moment. really was present.

27:51 I was doing things that was not necessarily creative, that was more destroying. I was doing things that is not how I was educated. It's not what I was feeling, but I was doing it by rage. And this is where it's super important to understand that what saved me out of that darkness is music and this desire of travelling and actually Activating The action of getting out of my city and getting out of my environment.

28:15 Because that was Fox it. It was contaminated by what I had to live as children. And I was not able to see the beauty. And I was just seeing the darkness.

28:25 And going out of this circle geographical circle permit me to slowly Eal. This things to a point where certain moment. I remember there was a f very very precise moment where I have the address I knew where this person that tried to rape me was living.

28:43 And I kept in my pocket always the address because I said if I pass by there, I want revenge. At a certain moment I physically had Took the paper. Rip it off. Put in garbage. And that was it. I was living my future and I boom it.

28:56 But again. This is how lucky I am. Do you know how many kids? The life will be destroyed for things like that. So again, what that comes from is it is it the love of my parents, this understanding about your dad, this feeling that the way you think is not the way you want to be.

29:14 and overcome that. Do you know how many friends have not survived that? How many people I've been their life have been destroyed by living something like that. So Obviously, once I overcome that, I become so engaged in those type of value and defending that that I become very, very strong about Not allowing those type of things in my surrounding. Combat that. Fight that.

29:36 Not with my fist. But with my creativity. For me Making people live uh an emotion because they live A moment of joy.

29:48 And when you're capable of Putting down the walls that the people put in general around them to protect because they got hurt before. And you're bringing them to a point that they put down those walls and open their heart for you to plant a seed. It made me realize that

30:03 Part of my job was not only to be a a merch of happiness, but A soft medicine healer of the soul. I don't know all you could do that. And then it reversed totally. At the moment I start to feel this power that to understand that feed the circle of life, it feed me back, and it was like very, very powerful. And I was like trying to explain it in a colorful way, but the dynamic is what I just explained to you. So

30:26 It's very interesting because sometimes people tell story But they don't tell the source of why you are there. And there's many other things that I learned my lesson out. But This is a typical example that You could reverse negative and build it to be even be better.

30:43 So What do you believe in that? Of course that person, those person was wrong because this is not Right. But on the other side, if I didn't live that moment, maybe I would be a different person and not realise very young in my life. Now wait a minute.

30:57 No. I would not be and I would not Use that type of power over other people. So it's uh very interesting. We could talk and talk. This is my philosophical uh Part of the brain, but Those are

31:09 Typical way that I learn out of everything I engage in. Key, thank you for sharing that. And I'm sorry that you and your friends experienced that and As a

31:21 Spectator as a, I guess participant, but from the stands, someone who's gone to many Cirque du Soleil performances, it's beautiful for me to hear how you referred metaphorically to the lowering of those walls, those protective mechanisms, because we don't have to spend much time on this, but I was very badly abused when I was very young, two to four. And I have very well established walls, but when I've gone to Circus lay performances. And there are a few places in life where this is true.

31:50 But it's where I can forget those stories. and become engaged with awe and wonder in a way. that allows me to Exhale. and experience these things very fully.

32:02 in a very tangible way. So I just wanted to reflect back my personal experience. And you'll be surprised because I always said, you know To hit the big seven, which is having the privilege on this planet to be born on the right side of the planet. Having the love of your parents, water.

32:21 food not being beat physic before the age of tens or sexually abuse. Well Has a question, Haram. I will tell you, like there's not many. Yeah.

32:32 qualify for the big seven. So this is very important to understand. I believe in the society we live in, it's a lot of Creepy and twisted things that happen to human being and that human being to to each other. So Again. Significantly I'm so happy to hear your story because

32:49 Two things. My show where about of course. The spectacular of it, the things like that. This is like this was the Big pleasure, but the the fundamental satisfaction was coming from two things. Really having the impression that m each of my show was

33:03 Helping to build a better world. In two ways. First. And Exposing.

33:09 Because all my show was all about inspired by the culture of the world, either in through the music, the costume, the team and things like that. My artists Well A mosaic of all this beautiful people around the world. It was performing. So for me I believe that I was a promoter of One World.

33:26 And by then. open the mind of people that there's other people than you and they could be beautiful too and they don't have to think like you. That one. The second one is really well, I just explained about this. Wall because I believe strongly that the power of love overcome the power of eight.

33:42 Because it's a feeling. So when people feel something that extremely Profound. And deep in the emotion of joys.

33:51 Well They will try and they will look into living that Again. And again. And again.

33:58 And the same effect when somebody suffers something. And this is why sometimes one event of aggressiv could provoke a monster. Why? Because the emotion is there and he You wanna give revenge.

34:10 So He's building even more what he had in this. So it's like it it it goes both way. And like I said, I'm so happy to uh make that choice of my life that I could have this tools of this healing tools that I believe is think my job at Sigda Soleil I did a lot of things.

34:26 But one of the most important function I has when when we create a show. My job was to assure that every my show It could be a fraction of a second. Yeah. Any spectator in the place will say, Wow, they did that for me.

34:40 You know? Whatever it is. And if I was able in my show to make people feel that I did that for them.

34:48 That was the most wall was falling down at that moment. So again, the understanding the psychology, the world different way Radical acceptance. a recognition that nothing's perfect. So it's like this is all came to my journey and and sick was The sandbox in which I was able to build that castle.

35:06 Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by Mementis. Mementus offers high quality supplements and products across a broad spectrum of categories, including sports performance, sleep, cognitive health, hormone support, and more. I've been testing their products for months now, and I have a few that I use constantly. Personally I've been using Momentus Mag38 Ltheanine and Apigenin, all of which have helped me to improve the onset quality and duration of my sleep. Now, the Momentus Sleep Pack conveniently delivers single servings of all three of these ingredients. Mementus also partners with some of the best minds in human performance to bring world class products to market. including a few you will recognize from this podcast, like Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Kelly Starrett. Their products contain high quality ingredients that are third party tested, which in this case means informed sport and or NSF certified, so you can trust that what is on the label is in the bottle and nothing else. So check it out.

36:08 Visit livemomentous.com slash Tim and use code TIME at checkout for twenty percent off. That's LivMomentus. L-I-V-E-M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S dot com slash Tim and code Tim for twenty percent off. Let's Track your path to the sandbox because there are many people who busk.

36:29 I actually did a very small amount of busking in Paris, actually. Well but it pissed everybody off'cause I wasn't asking for money, I just did acro yoga with another woman who was there. I think we're actually near I'm not gonna pronounce it properly, but near the gardens. Was it uh Tuilery? Something like that. Yeah, yeah, yes. I was close. I was close. So we were in front of the Louvre. In front of the Louvre. Very exactly. And there are many buskers, many people who busk, but very few people who create something like Cirque de Soleil. So you come back from Europe Could you describe some of the key

37:04 Decisions or moments. leading up to Cirque de Soleil after you return. Actually when I came back I was not yet decided if I was going back to school or not. Again I find another way to extend my a year not going to school to tell my father well I need to make money now, could you help me to have a job? You had a friend who had a factory to do a window for the uh

37:26 R Vs and trailers, so I worked there for months. Obviously this was a factory job, but it was bringing a little money while I was playing in bars with music and uh still willing dealing anything that could sell. On the side. What kind of stuff would you be selling on the side?

37:41 Not baseball cards, anything. Not anything, anything. I will find uh Anything. I was able to see opportunity to make m a buck on anything. So you just like buy a bicycle at a yard sale and then sell it to somebody. Something like that, or yeah, yeah, yeah, or buy uh

37:55 Always sell a bunch of jeans and going things and making five bucks over the jeans. That's cool. Whatever. I was a wizard dealer. I was a hustler also, you know, I was uh good at bagaman, I was like uh uh poo and stuff. A little bit of everything, you know, I always I'd like to put to challenge. I I love competition, I said same competition. amongst people, I think this permit you to it's like playing poker. You discover personality of people by Being a good chess player is that's nice. And actually it's something I apply in business later on. But but at that moment we're talking about when I come back to Europe. So uh nineteen seventy eight, seventy nine.

38:31 Done that job. And then there's another friend my fr father had, because at that time the biggest job you could have was to go work on the dam and the north uh the electrical dam. The wages there was like you were sent there, you had the highest wages. Extra hours you were working seven hours, it's like you were doing so much money. So my father got me that job.

38:51 So I go there. then Three days after arrive there and my syndicate go on strike. Your syndicate is like the union of the workers? The union. The union.

39:02 Got it strike three days afterwards. I got it. Well, here we go. My summer is screwed, my money is out, bad timing. Then I come back, they want me to go picking have nothing to do with the things, you know, to be honest. I was it's a community that I didn't even engage with and I was like uh I didn't know I didn't feel emotionally engaged to a big thing because they were giving you a check, small check, but they were giving you a check.

39:25 So what I decided to do I said Where did I then go in my province? And there was one place. B Saint Paul. Okay. Which is a little village north Quebec.

39:34 Which had the reputation of one of the coolest youthful styles. There. And I said, Wait a minute. I have a little check. I'll go there, I'll offer my service to help again the uh A better than food.

39:45 That was it and I'll wait. I didn't know uh when the strike would stop and not. But then end up to be all summer. So when I arrived there, climbed the hill. And Funny enough, I see Jill Saint Croix, that is one of the most important person in my life with Sing de Soda.

40:01 And another guy, Daniel Gauthier. That was my school friend, which was We left for relationship not a good note and then I go, said okay. why do I end up with this guy that I wanna see? But it's part of this it was a nonprofit organization and I arrive at the time where they were shaping They use hotels, so we prepare the things I got

40:22 the job of animating. So I was in charge of the party. You in charge of parties at the hostel? Exactly. Okay. parties, organizing things. That that's what I was good to. I always been good at doing those things. organizing trips and stuff like to Louisiana at fifteen years old, running the Mardi Ground. I've many of those mini story there that we could talk for a long time. But this one was an important one because

40:45 First. The deal was They would tell me, We cannot pay you but we could offer you a roof Annabelle. I said that's okay with me, but could I have uh Maybe the opportunity of making a little more money.

40:55 I said, I'll organise your party, but I wanna be able to pick up every Beer bottle on the f site. And earn the money of the beer bottle. Oh, like the redemption. Like you get the Exactly.

41:10 After every day there was a truck on anti bottle. I made so much money going back and selling everything to his bottle. That I end up having a very with little contract of music and the bar and the cafe. I end up having a Pretty decently. And this is where Jill thinkways.

41:27 Which Was coming out of uh was also uh Very interesting misfit creature. He was just coming back from uh An experience at Bread and Puppet in the Vermont. I don't know if you remember. I just heard about bread and puppet.

41:41 or bread and puppets for the first time from some of my family who live in Vermont. Literally last week they just told me about it. Yeah, because you're probably too young to remember that. They're still there, but at that time there was this leader And the bread and pop at the moment was Anti war, right? It came during the Vietnam War and And they had that farm in Vermont that they shape in uh and they had a magic wood.

42:02 And every year they were doing this festival and They were the master of still walking. And Joe came back of that. I'm fella. I have an idea. Let's do uh you know, I'm doing music, we're doing a little theater. So let's start a theater troupe on stilts.

42:16 That's the end of seventy nine. Then In the falls I got called for but the strikes fail and I go back to work on the dam. And Jill in the meantime choose another partner. I say, Okay, well You're not doing it collective, you want to do business.

42:32 Fine, but I won't hire you. I said, Well listen. I'm going in Mexico. Came back. Went to the dam. A month after Jill said, I have the grant of the thing that you want to be an artist and my true

42:43 I said I don't know. So a grant this is uh from the government? The government, yeah, yeah, they basically they had those grants that you could have uh enough money to pay salary for the summer, you know. In that region of Quebec it was very simple. Eighty percent of population was working on grand salary during the summer. and get the unemployment check during the winter. This is what that region is about. So basically you need twenty weeks to work to get your

43:09 check the rest of the year and that's what the life and most of people was living on that pattern. But I didn't know. So what I said, I said to my employer, I said, listen. I didn't have a house as I said. My house just went on fire. Could I have a couple of weeks to just go organize the thing? I didn't want to lose my job.

43:24 Yeah. You know, because if I say I quit, uh that's it, I'm done. So I'm gonna know if I'm away. So I mailed that story, I got the permission, went there. Never went back, but at least I had that back off. It's always, you know, you're playing chess in life. It's like you make a move, but you want to know what's your back move. That was one of them. So so eventually I accept to be one of the artists in this teater Trubon Stilts, which was in partnership with this guy Sylvain Errant. We end up to be so bad for the business, so at the end of the season.

43:56 Actually. We had an amazing experience. It was a summer of my first big love in my life. And An amazing

44:04 theatrical, original experience But Bad relationship with the management, especially that guy. So Everybody was like, uh we don't like the guy. They end up bankrupt at the end of the season.

44:17 Jill said, Well You know, like I making mistakes. And we all decide to create a nonprofit organization, buy back the the assets and start it under a new company which was the original the foundation company that we built Signes LA with in the future. So Step two.

44:34 Of that? was to Manage. And then I was tour manager. I was like uh assuming uh market thing, business function. I was I was able to give my skill

44:46 And uh we had an amazing uh nineteen eighty summer. This is the year also of the federal election. I was a candidate at the Rhino Service party, you know, there was this like crazy party that was promising anything. I was a political candidate. We had a lot of fun. Quick question. So was the performance at that time still mostly theater on stilts or had it changed? Theater on stills, music. Fire breeding by that moment I really had master I would say then all the skill I had. Probably fire.

45:16 Well The highest level I was mastering, so I had my pyro license. I was one of the best Fire breeder in the world. I was developing device to manipulate fire, I was organizing show with fire.

45:30 And this was my personal uh I would say the Feature. And I was very proud about it and I was recognized for being one of the Best.

45:40 Quebec uh fire player or fire master. That being said, then We did one season and and the winter I was always again Twenty weeks of work and people were going and getting their paycheck for the rest of the winter. It was not my style. For me it was about okay, the job's finished.

45:58 I was hitting the road all the time. So one time on a motorcycle going to Montreal, Ky West, then uh San Diego and then jumping there. But in nineteen seventy nine, nineteen eight, and nineteen seventy nine. At the end of the first year, which was my love affair.

46:14 I discover Hawaii. Summer was the love of my life. Back then. First big love. And at the end of the year it was like the

46:22 broken art of my life. The first within six months, seven months, it was like I went from Wow, this is love and singing hole. Heartbreaking is very hard. It's very painful. So I had to take care somewhere. So I was a friend that was in Hawaii on the big island that said, I passed by. And arrived there. And

46:43 Wow, I was discovering a part of the world that I didn't see and my I always Wanna go Hawaii because my parents told me so many good things about it. And then I was there and it was very interesting. There was an interesting E P community is performer there. There was like the E P side, there was uh

46:59 You know, nice nightlife. Simple life, uh mellow things, but I was still in pain and I it's a very interesting moment in my life. So For the two first we Um it was fun. But I was

47:11 I have the sadness inside me, and I was heartbroken. And I was getting this little cafe or juice. I was not drinking coffee, but like this milkshake type of things, you know, in the morning at the same cafe. And there was always this Old E P there. I remember he was a magician, I learned that after. That was always the same thing with me. And so when he approached me and he said Hey. What's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? And

47:37 And I said, Well, there's nothing wrong. So what do you mean you're fighting the rate of you know the guy was throwing me like that Sitting down, didn't even invite himself. He invited himself and wait a minute, I'm in my bubble. A pain. And then it just keeps throwing me those things, you're not feeling the vibe of the island.

47:57 And he said the certain one said, You know what? I know I'm disturbing you there, but I will tell you one last thing. I said. Try to fill the rhythm of the island and the island will bring you on the right side of your soul. Mm.

48:10 Okay. What is that? Mm. And at that moment and and you know, I'm I I could be very thing, but I listen. You have to understand. Remember.

48:19 Kale G Baron of I've had things is like my first philosophical reading and I've Remone it. Everything that made Poetic sense or whatever, I was that got my attention after that because When you're capable of reading behind the word.

48:32 And the meaning of it I start to discover and this is where I start to l light Orch. Before that it was paint. But now I start to understand thing and I really reflect on that. And uh watching sunset. And then I start to just

48:46 And this island. Change my life. This is where I start to get inspired. I connect with uh Lua troops. I was doing my fire dance. I was playing accordion in the Italian restaurant. going and using a bad gammon and a bar after and you know meaning And realising.

49:05 That Actually. So many things at that moment. I've tried to Mention all of that. First of all.

49:12 At that time there was a hundred one Type of religion or spiritual faction that was on there. On the island. On the island.

49:20 Make me realize, wait a minute. Because at the same time you hear about all those fight about religion and that And you say, Wait a minute, this is like but is it? And then you suddenly see a piece of land on earth that people live in peace with each other and respect. I don't know why. Oh something.

49:35 Then you meet all those eater with potion with growing herbs and stuff like that, and there's this Healing spirit on the island. You see people at a rhythm that doesn't exist on the North American continent, there's a base. That is more toward the pace of the The rhythm of the wave of the island or the wind instead of the

49:55 Subway a rhythm. And then you meet A bunch of Performer that We hang out on the beach every day and perform on the naked beach, on the non naked beach.

50:07 There's probably their phone, probably And then I start to For the first time in my life. Got To what I believe still today the closest to meditation on my side. I'm not a meditating guy. I never stop the answer in the head uh but when I watch when I watch Sunset,

50:24 This is a very peaceful thing, s and the Sawaiian sunset. This is where I start to Think about project. Well remember, every winter I was coming out of the that was the second year of the not first year and then second. I went there three years before we did the Fate for Ren, which I'll talk But The sun

50:41 was my inspiration moment. So I start to think about project creating this. Well my creative mind Explode there. Okay. The reason what the name Saleh Seg Saleh is for two reasons.

50:54 The inspiration of the sun of the big island? Okay, sunset, which are amazing. And at that time in the symbolic book of Symbol. Sun was a the symbol of the energy of youth. So that was

51:05 This is the name of my company. He said you said it came later. But before that While I was there, everyone threw it going down, finding my old friends and just having It became my Ealing Island. Uh

51:16 For the rest of my life. Every time I have a business decision, an emotional distress, a question about my Decision to be made. This is where I Find my answers.

51:27 Every time I was coming there. I was planting the seeds of my question. And then I knew that when I come out of there the answer will be there, whatever decision I made, and it worked. Pretty much all good. So

51:38 This is where the evolution of the theater Troubone stilts. You know, we were trying to grow and then Jill said, Okay, we'll do a winter version on skate and no for me there. I'm not spending a winter here. I'm a beach bomber, I'm not a ski bomber.

51:55 And this is where I start to talk about the project of a street performing festival in B. St. Paul. And with Jill what we did in nineteen eighty two. We went into this village which is very uh traditional painting, you know, this place is recognized by all this is a beautiful place for art is a pain, uh Landscape and things like that. So

52:14 We were already black sheet there, the the the U Social people and this village of wolf mentality. You know, you have to understand this is all the old traditional families that are directly from the Founders of Quebec, you know, the people who got thrown in the boat by the French as bandings and built this country. And actually it's very it's not the swolf mentality because it's all very strong.

52:38 Established family. So when you're a stranger coming there Oh, I see. They're just ag aggressive when you say wolf mentality. Well, yes, yes, yes, and clan. They're they're very uh protective and you arrive a bunch of uh People who w or are on a Utal cell or maybe dancing naked around a fire, uh uh taking substance and uh and actually the first business that's been opened by our community there is called the the Mouton Wall, the cafe, the restaurant, was called the Black Sheep.

53:07 That's We made a statement that we will assume The perception that we have. So you can imagine and they had that festival at that time, which is a art festival painting. Very uh touching it, white grouse. White glove festival, you know it's like

53:23 An institution. And we arrived Wanting to close the street and do a street performing festival. So we have to go through all the political level convinced that And then sponsorship. We're selling you know in our program seventy five dollar little business card size.

53:39 in our program to the merchant, but we have to convince the people to give us a chance. And it became a success. Then I was like, financially we lost a little bunny. But We had the attention of the

53:51 Big city in terms of culture. We brought The merchant was super happy. So the black sheep go pitching this crazy idea in this, let's just call it maybe conservative town, protective town. What was the key to the pitch?

54:06 I don't know, you know, it's like I guess. Again it's so convinced. Like I said, me and J Jill is a charming human being. Always pause, never raise your mind. I'm the I was the Jester, the the Jester. The Jester, the speedy Gonzalez guy. I'm always like hands up, talking like that, but with a lot of passion.

54:27 But we arrive with something I believe Well. Safe enough, colorful enough. Business wise maybe maybe it will have a good economic impact for us. So we got a shot.

54:39 We got a shot. And actually Pretty well on, obviously, and again, the last day. The last thing. Of the last show.

54:49 in the arena because all those free travel were there, there was work shop, people were learning how to do clowning in the wood, in the mountain, whatever. We organized a very nice program You know, it was not a big budget, but people showed up. And mostly a lot of my international friends decide to come and visit us because we were booking co booking The big paycheck was from the main festival in Quebec City, but I got the good deal if I was getting a deal for them in Quebec, so that just if I'm to come.

55:17 And I got them for a good price. But we had that closing show in the arena. Which was everybody on the scene. Together. And where the last moment is the Fan Far is there, and I'm blowing fire.

55:30 And that moment there's a thunderstorm. And We're playing that track that's called the Schnabel, which means the person that walk on this on the wire. It became rantom attract. And we're in a grand finally the storm.

55:44 shut down all electricity and we just would uh The flame, the camera. Super dramatic. And I still have Goosebum, and then There was

55:53 A big, big quantity of the Quebec. Street performer. And this is where we look at each other. It was so emotional and we said, Okay Let's think about Maybe it would be time to think about creating your own circus.

56:07 Okay. And this is what inspired me the first flame. of inspiration came wow look at all us together on stage imagine under a big thumb Start to share that, but obviously. Starting a circus far more difficult than doing uh

56:21 Street Performing Festival. So we did a second Year nineteen eight that was nineteen eighty two. In nineteen eighty three we do the the second version of it and that's greater success. And then we got the attention of the government because Nineteen eighty four was a celebration of the four hundred fifties anniversary.

56:39 Of discovery of Canada. Both celebrating by the federal side. And the provincial side. And you have to understand the provincial We're French Canadian. We're frogs. French fries.

56:50 And then the Anglo Saxon on the other side. And obviously the government wanna celebrate and and both Take a position very political, so so there's a lot of money that is thrown. For cultural or shows, activities or things. So Special money. So I've been invited.

57:08 Based on the success of F and to depose or propose a project. And this is where that moment I said, Well, this is our window. So We build relationship with the director of programming, but we still you know the remember I'm dealing now with the government. A cultural minister that is so in the

57:26 I and class C, uh I'm hanging out with the stars, so You're Thinking about a government that we're this minister of culture is Tolly

57:36 start systeming, you know. And all the different department of culture. You have dance, opera, singing, whatever, music. Street performing circus was not there. Basically you have to understand The social reality there is

57:51 And the mentality of Whatever festival government was about, pay them a sandwich, they'll entertain you for fifty minutes. Okay, so so this is what we started. Their assumption was it was very low. Okay We're way down the food chain. Everybody got the money, everybody got the contract and things. And here I am with one other friend that was uh which actually is the real co founder is not the other one. The other one came later, but there's one real co founder that left after the first year. So we engage yourself of going pitching. To the government.

58:25 And then there's different level of contract you could get. But there was this artistic director that was in charge of programming. Jacques Lana. Yeah. Really we have connect.

58:34 But I was Pushing him to the He was coming red sometimes. That's not what I'm asking you. You know, we we had to fit in the in the formula And I'm trying to business the first Quebec circus. And I'm trying to explain. He believed in it, but he said you will not be able to sell that to the government. You will not I said, No, no, no, this is this is the time.

58:54 And then slowly by slowly they will buy us to hire or put in our team somebody that was recognized by government. A friend of mine, we play with her, but she is absolutely not the same level. But slowly, and I will always remember the dealing because It was a famous cap of a million dollar contract. And it's not grant, those were contract negotiating. And my project

59:14 That what I wanna do With some compromise. was costing one point seven million. But To have over a million dollar you have to the uh uh minister council. So they didn't want to bring a freak like me.

59:26 As a proposed Content provider. Especially not that minister that doesn't like uh street reformer. So basically I will always remember you pitch in front of commissary, the minister and something I have two document on the table.

59:40 One big Cover collars. And I put a corner there and I have a black and white one. Okay. And then

59:48 Because they asked me to stay at nine hundred ninety nine nine. Okay, one dollar under the million dollar project. And I did work. So I present in black and white. Everything of my project I present black and white. I said, this is a project. And there's one, of course, I've seen the document. They said, Well, is this other document we call it? I said, Well it's not important. It's like this is the one point seven, you don't want it.

1:00:10 And I raised it and I'm playing the game. Full on the game. No no no. You're just like it. And eventually somebody I'll ask me, convinced me, and it was part of the game actually, this is all negotiation. Colorful negotiation, I call that. Strategic thinking. Understanding human nature. Okay. And it's very interesting. And I learned all that in the street. You know, because of the streets is basically

1:00:35 You have a fraction of seconds to decide if you hit and run. If you have. Or run fast. Or talk. But you don't have one minute to converse there's a situation there. So one of the biggest scale in business I learned was in the street because of this.

1:00:49 dangerous environment. Or you make friends or you run or you're ready to face a More physical reality. So Obviously there was a compromise there where it was we cannot give you one point seven million dollars. Now But let's start with one million. And we promise you that over the summer we'll be able

1:01:08 By exception, by exception, by exception to get to your budget. So basically I have my one point seven million dollar contract. And with all the hard start, we were the star of the summer. You know, everybody was Failing. Huge failure. We fell too in the first month, but the beauty of it is we were the product that was going in the country.

1:01:27 So you know the in the countryside. So the first month was a disaster. We lost our big top, it was raining and it was like it was like conflicts. Uh uh the artist was fighting and like there was a strike whatever happened at the beginning, we were in the mud up to the throat. But one month after or show us so. Hype. You were able to prototype it in the countryside, so you're able to be a mess.

1:01:50 But it didn't matter because you could refine it. Yeah, because they ask us the minister wanna keep the big city and the stars of the big city. They put us on the third row, you know, go go in the in the cheap country. Yeah, yeah. Where were the piece of bread that was thrown in the country to satisfy To touch everybody with a celebration thing. But at the end It became the best thing that arrived for us because when we arrive in the big city, because we did play in the big city, we arrive so ready. We became the success of the summer.

1:02:20 Press wise, public wise, and government wise, and Prime Minister was there and it's like Wait a minute. Those are the type of because you have to understand we're right in the middle of the Independent movement. And the Prime Minister at that time was trying to always say We're not done for a little bread.

1:02:36 coming out from the religious things behind them, and we lost everything to where the English rest of Canada and to the economy. So this minister was like believe in the French Canadian creativity, business skill and stuff like so we became The symbol. Yeah. Totally. And I developed that relationship with that prime minister and he fell in love with that. We were his case.

1:02:57 Or the product. And the example of what he meant. So basically the second year he like twist the arm of the Minister of Culture said no you if you want that amount, you have to give them so It was a very important thing. S obviously year second was more being in the by yourself in the business

1:03:14 But this is the beginning of six. This is how it came and that's how it take place. So let me pause for one second. So in that meeting, you have the black and white copy. Give the colour. So you're playing on human nature. And you're doing it really well because of in part your experience Learning lessons on the street.

1:03:31 Still, when you walked in, I assume That their perspective was that street performing Again. Lowest

1:03:41 on the food chain. Right. So what else was there in the Presentation. That made them change their mind. Over time.

1:03:50 Because that was a year in preparation for meetings. Uh. Got a lie. Uh right. Financial officer which is a big man, Mathieu became a defender. then the press person

1:04:04 Was in love with you. And it's like there were so many that Jacques Renault, director of creation, that was like pushing, he wanted our project. So suddenly. The administration, the people at the administration level, not at the decision level. Well Middle level the same level. start to recommend us and no you have to have that type of programming and all this this is diversity they became or defender And actually and we had certain ali, but it slowly we convinced them by

1:04:34 I believe what they believe was a great Creative project. But also were enthusiastic. We were a bunch of kids. You have to understand. We were coming from the streets and this was a window and as a wheeler dealer this is an opportunity, I'm not giving And then like

1:04:48 Unless the fish is cutting the line. I'm taking that fish out of the pile. Okay. So Yeah.

1:04:56 I was really always in this like War I I was on a mission. And I achieve it. And be because what I was carrying on my shoulder is The dream of all the community in Montreal. or Quebec that for years was talking about the dream of doing a circus, but never nobody organized it.

1:05:12 And I have the credibility of that tribes. because I did a street performing festival, so I was able to ally behind me the entire community and I was the I was given kind of like the carte blanche to make it happen. And without having to go through this collective process of things, because you know, I I believe in consultation, I believe in collectivity, but at a certain moment

1:05:33 I believe also that everybody in the organization have Specific Responsibility. And mine was to make final decisions. And I got the respect of that. It was not I had to gain it in the first month because it was a lot of challenge.

1:05:45 Related to that, but at the end I got the support of the community and the press. Favorable critics. And the love of the public. So when you have those three things in front of whoever You have an army.

1:05:57 Yeah, you have an army. And Let's talk about maybe influences, philosophies I read, and maybe this came later, so we could also pause this for later, but that your marketing inspirations were P T Barnum and Walt Disney. P T Barnum. Obviously

1:06:15 People who know and read well. Very complex character, but basically invent modern marketing. Talk good, talk bad. But talk about it. What is this? Is line.

1:06:25 And You know, this is a guy that was bringing a circus in New York and will make sure that the biggest truck that carry the biggest LFN will have a breakthrough in the middle of Times Square. Oh but he will have uh a breakdown and and will we'll have the front page of the New York Times the day after that word hundred thousand dollar. Okay. He was a master of that. And for people And I understand even if people think that he was abusing freaks and stuff like that, e I decide yes to do business with all the misfit, but he gave them a roof and a and a community.

1:06:57 So that And the other one is uh Walt Disney. Walt Disney, yeah. Oh my God. And I was like this uh I don't know, we don't we're not on the visual here. But

1:07:07 Over a napkin, they designed the entire vision of Walt Disney with the things and the this a famous napkin drawing that he did. Yeah, the uh like the parks, the merchandising. Exactly, exactly, exactly. So this guy was so creative and so business it was a perfect balance of the two sides of the brain of a person. So obviously this was my other uh influence. At the time that you get the million dollars with additional, like maybe it adds up over time to whatever it was, one point five million from the government, then you do another year. At that point What was your aspiration? Well, the other year was almost killed. The other year we were technically in bankruptcy.

1:07:45 Okay. What you don't know in between say once you have those contract Well then you have to go and find a bank. Mm-hmm. It's one thing to converse the government, but I'm telling you it's much more difficult to convince banking. To help you with your your finances. Yeah, yeah, because the the the government was signing your letter, contract, but the payment process of uh government is a little longer than just signing a a check every month.

1:08:09 So we have to go and finance and find uh uh the bridge. Which was banker. And my God, this was like uh hilarious. I don't know. I think we did uh Avery bank or then a hundred uh miles around uh the city we were in, and basically We're entertainer. They all have a smile, but they all told us no with a smile, saying, Well, I like your project

1:08:28 But us bank we need collateral and actually we don't know what we'll do with with a trapeze or a tent or a uh a crane truck or uh a counter of hot dog. If you fail. Mm-hmm. And you're there. Listen, this is a contract. Yeah, but So but we end up And it's very, very funny.

1:08:46 We end up in the the last Financial institution we ever thought we could know not. That was a little uh Bank. That was mainly known to finance Strikes. So basically you know union that have a lot of money, things when govern people want strikes.

1:09:02 They need a bank that will manage the strike budget. How does the bank get repaid if they're funding a strike? They take some portion of the settlement? No, no, no. Basically the union have a lot of money. But they use those bank, this is where they put their money in. So those is a the number one bank In Quebec.

1:09:21 Where the Union put Their money deposits their money. Deposits. So m most of their members H union workers. Right. There's not a business person in business with them. They're all union. This is a union bank. I get it. That have no clue of financing a business or whatever. And this is where we and this is the one bank that give us our first bank account. With uh a first credit line or advance the money that the government they try because that's what they get. They're used to that. They use that union we say, Okay, found uh give money to those people, we've found it, we guarantee the money.

1:09:58 So It's in their DNA to advance money to people who have no money because they have People, big bank account that say we'll pay. Government is the same thing as a union. They have big bank account. Anyway, so So so in in this moment, this we established the first years that was not risky because it was all pretty much guaranteed, and we end up with fifty thousand profit.

1:10:21 out of the one point seven million. Couple of equipment, but a lot of experience. But obviously they also tell me that We cannot work under the model we did that because it was a compromise. So

1:10:32 We had to go to the market and then we were by ourselves. There was no more grand. Or no no more contract from the government. But we have the Prime Minister out there that really loved it and nineteen eighty five was the international year of the youth. For young people, youth. So I that that just need me for me the one thing like that for me to build all the next second year of Sig de Soleil under the youth banner.

1:10:53 And here we go, we build a single sole and actually Even there I recognize that we cannot survive with the ambition we had when when I build only in our province. We were condemned to export on time. I see just for financial reasons you would have to expect. Yeah, yeah, there was not enough market. Yeah. Not not enough market, you know, the the analyze we had on the things was okay, we could do three months, four months. But to run a circus you have to do nine months, ten months over the year and uh because of the climate and the population ratio.

1:11:24 We have to export. So our first line of exportation was Ontario. Toronto? And Niagara Falls. Ha ha. Two million visitor whatever by month or things like that. That's what the government told us you shoot there, there's like the biggest tourist destination, Niara Fall.

1:11:41 So The way we had no money for marketing thing. You have to understand that We were tied, we had the little subsidies, we have things, but money was always coming at the end and at the end. What make the success of entertainment is your your marketing campaign. But we were always short on money for for promotion, so

1:11:59 We were betting always on the first night or creating a PD barn yum event in the downtown city or whatever to get a little press. And That year. was going well, you know, Toronto was going well, but we were so fragile in terms of our general budget. That one city

1:12:16 You know, we could afford a little hiccup. But a drastic failure. would create a drastic financial situation so where I've That's almost the last video on the tour. We're in Niagara Falls. We all prep, you know, for the opening night.

1:12:31 There's fooling people there, all the politicians, the local people, and then normally The history tell us that the day after the sales tickets increase and we we get our end result. Second day. Ten tickets. Shit. Uh uh. Uh oh. Second show.

1:12:49 Sixty five people in the room when I have seventy five worker. Okay. Second day, twenty tickets. So it went on. It's like what's wrong? What happened? And then I have a revolt of the artist. We're not going to play in front of fifteen people. This is where the rule of

1:13:05 We will never perform we made a deal with the artist that we will never perform Is the number of public is under the number of artists. That was a moment we made a deal like that. But it was catastrophic. So Then I was like, what's going on? And we did all kinds of things, bipage things. We tried to react, but nothing was working. And this is where a certain moment is like, What's wrong? Why are we that bad when it doesn't work?

1:13:30 To then realize That's yes, there's two million people passing in the airfall, but the average of stay of people is forty five minutes And the other one would stay long, their honeymoon are in there or in the room having their honeymoon moment. So we we understand that the notion of market study really but the result of that is we're technically in bankruptcy. And we saw that. So the specific bank, and this is a true story. You know, obviously we were about three quarter million dollar in deficit at that time.

1:13:57 But to arrive there We had to survive the end of the tour, pay the salary. And if we don't do that, that's it. So we have a list of supplier Under five thousand dollar and over five thousand dollar.

1:14:09 We have a payroll to deliver every two weeks. And we have or Minimum will be scarce and we cannot build back, you know, so so you have to pay cash. And then we have no more cash. We're coming back in Montreal. We know we'll get a little more money and we could reduce that and

1:14:24 Not overcome everything. But we have to survive that because if if we cannot bring a little more money to balance a little bit We're done. And then who sells? We have no money, not selling tickets. So

1:14:35 The banker. This Union Bank that we have like uh I don't know, a hundred thousand that year or two hundred thousand dollar Credit line. Start to allow without a approval of his committee. First it was every check we're doing, we went over maybe another hundred thousand. Then he said, Wait a minute.

1:14:52 You know, you're go you're your line. Yeah. And you know, instead of telling ya you can't do any more, you said Please, could you not do check over ten thousand dollar. Is it like Wait a minute. This is the banker. So we do check under 10,000. Then second call.

1:15:09 Yes, please, could you not do check over five thousand? It went down to five hundred dollars. So he was in, and the last thing we got of him. It was uh I think a twenty five or thirty thousand dollar payroll, the last payroll of the season. We went to this listen. I know we're way over it's like and the guy said he look at me and said I'll lose my head.

1:15:30 I have no authorization. I did things that I was not a rise to do as a director of the bank. I said, if this goes wrong, I'm dead. So Well I said yeah but Please, you're definitely dead if you don't have me to pay the payroll. And the guy released another twenty five, thirty thousand dollar to pay the payroll. And then we're end of season. And I'm my partner at that time, Danielle.

1:15:52 We look at each other, right? If one and we have maybe twenty thousand dollar cash that we put aside. And we said to each other, if one supplier come and Pose a nation. Like a like a like a lawsuit or yeah, claim. Just just claim. Just going to court, then it will trigger all the things.

1:16:09 Then very soon. But we did is I took all the supplier Over them. I said to the bank, first of all, I said the bank Should I have five, six months, you know, we're we're doing another tour. We have a contract with the exploded night eighty six in Vancouver.

1:16:23 We have good traction, you know, it's like we're popular. But we don't we we're totally Technically we're broke. So I went on With my director of administration and me, we went to every supplier.

1:16:36 And made a deal. Didn't pay none of them. Except tree and then we use the cache. We made a deal. Postponed. Check.

1:16:44 Eight months. In twelve checks. How them? They will accept. Hm.

1:16:50 Why did they accept? They loved us? Okay. They trust us. I think they believe in us. We were up front.

1:16:59 But we had a deal, but you know, we had a break of eight m six months minimum, eight months of each of them with postponed in check with the promise that if the cash was coming first. We will pay them faster. My God. This is Angel flying and not only one, this is like uh fifty Angel is on that. And actually it was about two hundred fifty supplier. Whatever, for five hundred to uh ten thousand, the biggest one I think was hundred thousand, and the bank. And the bank and the guy have to go back. So are you so the bank I have to ask so this guy

1:17:29 is clearly just breaking all the rules, it seems like, to give you guys this money. Was he uh I wanna know a little bit more about that. I mean, was he just pissed off at his boss and he was gonna quit in six months anyway? No I know being a bit of a joker, but why would he I mean he's risking his job, I would think, doing this. Totally, totally. But I guess Yeah, you have to be there at the origin. We came like We were a storm of collar of happiness and what we're doing we're

1:17:56 What people never saw in the circus thing, so we were We were clearly we were inspired and we were working hard. And We were working on a business plan and we Everybody understand if we bring that things.

1:18:08 It could be a huge success. But we were just young entrepreneurs that was leaving everything a young generation have to face when you do business. And suddenly Every wall of those people that normally would put a wall in front of kids. Uh decide.

1:18:23 And I didn't interview everybody of it, but I would say for the banker point, because he became a great, great friend. It was just like I just believed. Yeah. And I was ready I was ready to go battle with my bank committee. You know, and say

1:18:37 We should and actually his philosophy was banks should sometimes take risk, business risk, and not only Protect themselves. You know? It's principal we do so much money that a portion of our things should be when we feel it. To take

1:18:51 Greater risk over and above what the rules of the bank rules is. And that's what he was defending. Actually he was using my case And actually this bank that we stayed Until I sold Soleil. We were super faithful to them.

1:19:03 And for him it became the bank. That every Young cultural enterprise or young things were to go because they made a model. All of that. And they have been able to service there. And it was just like Again, this was the type of thing. And then eighty six, we went to Vancouver in one year we pay everybody the bank and stuff like that. It was all done.

1:19:23 And then eighty seven we hit LA was a live or die in LA. Opening night. Again, it worked. Most died that night. Wait, did you say you almost died that night?

1:19:33 Well, listen, that day, okay, you have to understand we're going to Los Angeles Festival, Art Festival, super again institutional things. Director of programming comedy came late and said, Well We're interested, but we have no money to book you. I said I'm going from Quebec to Canada to put everything on things. And one of my partner We're saying, Well, let's go to Vermont.

1:19:55 What the hell a vermand will tell you everything, uh if we will be successful or not. We have to hit the big city, New York. Or or Los Angeles. And we had an opportunity there. So I made a deal. With the Los Angeles festival, I said, okay. I'll go.

1:20:09 I'll take my own risk. But please could I have the opening night? Okay, the of the festival. And please could you just at least make sure that in your promotion, your generic promotion You put us.

1:20:21 And I said Third. Can you make sure we have good press, the big name of Hollywood. On the opening day. But here we are, we're in uh little Tokyo, you know where they p put out in a little Tokyo, yeah.

1:20:33 It's everybody else is in the forum of that, all the big institution They threw us in the middle of the worst neighborhood there is. Little Tokyo. Okay. Downtown LA. In a site that is the middle of site, which basically is the Middle on one side you have one street gang and the other one you have the other street gang. It's one of the biggest crime plays things.

1:20:55 It's like murder over the It's just like wait a minute. So we end up having to deal with the neighborhood there, so and we have to uh you know, we have two choice. Either we are security things, so we decide. I've been able to negotiate kind of a truce. between the two gangs saying, Listen.

1:21:11 I'm coming, I come from the streets, I put all my street history behind. I make them laugh, uh, you know, I did the clown of myself. I got their approval. Why? Because I said Your wife, your kids, I'll give them job. Okay, other than selling drugs or killing people, whatever stealing

1:21:27 My God. Two memorable moments. Okay. And that was a very interesting because people tell us put uh twenty foot no no like another four twenty foot things. We'll give John. So everybody had a job the uh the security, parking cars, uh

1:21:43 cleaning, uh ushers, uh selling hot dog or whatever. Everybody that was hired from the two gang there. And actually I think for a very long time that was the first time they were Not killing each other in the same roof. Anyway. So there's two events that I made me laugh. One is about that opening day, which is you see people arrive, the big limo, the big Mercedes, the big Rolls Royce.

1:22:05 And they give the key to the the hood. Yeah. Going park the place in the worst place you could park a uh that type of car. So just that thing was like wow. Wow wow wow.

1:22:19 Just that for me was an interesting mission accomplished somewhere. To be able to make that clear. But the most freaky moment was The opening was in the afternoon and it was so what? So what?

1:22:31 And people arrive and you know Hollywood, they don't arrive on the dot. Oh my god. And so we were dying just to die. It's like they had people who was like Hundred degree. People were sweating, you know. And then okay, uh it's not complete and the organizers Well wait a minute, this this star is coming, he's on his way, da da

1:22:50 So we decide to send the clowns To animate the place. And you have the mayor, you have like the the governor, it's like all the big shabang is there. And they're on time. So they're just sitting down waiting.

1:23:03 And so you're they're they're in the then I can't go because we have to give a little animation. So I said to my my bunch of clowns Okay, just go. Uh don't do the things of the pre show, but uh you have enough Tricks uh to make them laugh. My one belly clown.

1:23:19 Um One of them. First thing he's coming, he's coming with a O's. A water hose. Oh water hose, yeah, yeah. Water hose, open the hose and start to spray it everybody and think I said I'm dying. I'm there die, I said that I will really die.

1:23:34 In that way. And then suddenly fraction a second because you could see people reacting And so And then you see the first body talk. But there's suddenly a bunch of people all together

1:23:45 Give it more they stand up and like give me more water. Magic moment. Yeah, it could have gone. That's what I'm saying. I thought it was going the other side. So finally do the show Standing Ovation and The day after is like sell. So we were sold out. And this is the was the beginning of never looking back again. Wow. We did have bumpy road and stuff like that, but from that moment

1:24:10 There's only one year the year of a growth crisis. And our our growth that we Lost a little money, but since then sick except the bankruptcy year. We've been doing money, money. Never never been on the deficit here. That's interesting. Super interesting. So if if you look at LA, so you told a bunch of stories about LA. You're headed to Vancouver. You do really well in Vancouver. You don't want to repeat Niagara Falls, obviously. Now Vancouver is very different from Niagara Falls, but was there any planning

1:24:38 Or changes that you made to the preparation. Before going to Vancouver that made a big difference. No, you have to understand that we start to build wealth, you know, on reputation and we're able to do media deal. So we're starting to be much more strategic in our communication. Remember, the first year was very difficult because We have all the money for the operation, but we're very tight.

1:25:00 Side we start to generate cash and profit. So Again. It's support a good campaign. So we're able to buy a full page in the New York Times and you know and hit. And create

1:25:11 I would say attention. We were very famous to Every opening night at that time. It was an amazing party, not everybody wanna be there. And then after that sells going and the model was click, click, click, click.

1:25:24 And then we expand to show and then The breakthrough of Vegas with Steve Wynn. It's just like life or the universe and that was presenting us opportunity. And we were

1:25:35 Or highs was Enough Ben to see Dam and seize them. Because it goes both way. And I believe this is something that's very important for people

1:25:45 To understand how we were thinking is that Somewhere in this space or this dimension. There's Something for us and we have to find it. But not only we had find it, but it was coming to us. And this is all the notion of the

1:25:59 Blue ocean. Concept. versus the red ocean environment. We basically create a blue ocean by And so if we were ahead of a time.

1:26:07 We package. We didn't reinvent nothing. The hard form of circus was there. We just Put collar on something that was very dusty. Apply a teatrical approach versus a circuit show approach. And we R and V and we once we start to have money we reinvest.

1:26:24 For supplying or organic growth. And the same time that we're building relationship and having access to bank money So we became Great business people. And that

1:26:33 Always related to when At the beginning of six. When I tried to convince bank Put a place on a board where nobody wanna be a board. I said, Well, now I'm condemned to play business. And I still had play business and out of fun of playing business because it was a wall

1:26:50 Always about the game. You know, it's like we come from nothing. So what was the worst situation? Go back nothing. I couldn't live that. That's where I come from. And While I was seeing successful people failing. Because they were starting to nurture to not having tomorrow they have.

1:27:05 Today? And start to nurture fear. And it was like no. Could you explain that a bit more? I've seen a lot of successful enterprise.

1:27:14 There's many things that kill success, huh? The first one I've seen Is about once you have success, you get a lot of reward financially, economically. And then You're starting to nurture the fear of not having tomorrow.

1:27:28 What do you have today? Right. And then change your entire way of addressing things. So suddenly You're not the same person, you don't address your business the same way. You don't address your vision and things because You're not your fear.

1:27:41 Okay. So my say on that is like Bancher there is. But please evaluate danger, don't nurture fear, because at the moment you nurture fear. There's a good chance that that you call your fear and the result of the fear.

1:27:53 So that's one thing, and I've seen a lot. of entrepreneur. Shifting. They will have been shifting or Transforming what they are.

1:28:03 And deny where they come from. So at the end Not being themselves. And having a business of success, changing their soul, their way of doing things, and become other people which

1:28:14 Again. could affect the result company. And the other one is more recognizing or realizing that a certain moment you're not the person to Bring

1:28:25 your business or your baby to another level. To be able to step out when you realize that Yeah. Maximize For different reason.

1:28:33 your contribution to the success of your enterprise. So let's talk about the first part of that just a little bit longer because I I lived in Silicon Valley for 17 years and have a lot of friends from that period of my life. Many of them have shifted, I would say, into trying to defend what they have or have experienced more fear. because they don't know who to trust, et cetera. I mean there are many stories about. So what else would you say to those people? They're people you care about, you see them maybe changing or feeding the fear. What else would you say to them? You mentioned something about trust.

1:29:08 There's a tin line between wasting time of doubting versus trying to see The best side of a person. and work toward making emerge of a person's best side. And this is conversation I still have, whatever with my kids, with my

1:29:23 Ex And the actual business. Is this notion of To which level you trust without compromising the fundamental.

1:29:33 And this is Very difficult to conclude because I've lived the two spectrum Of that in life, I got some of the best reward by trusting people. And focusing on their beautiful soul versus their dark side. And that has been very rewarding.

1:29:48 That provoked the Observation that People have sometime when you have Give them traps, they will fell in the trap. of felling in the greed, ego, and power side of life.

1:30:01 versus the love, respect, and trust side of life, which is what we had build or things with. And and that brought me a lot of deception to people I really Trust that I believe. That we had enough experience together and they fell in that part.

1:30:17 And again. It happened in my own little ethos, but look what's going on in the world. You know, we're driven by this tension between the two side of it. And obviously the people who are driven by greed, ego, and power. Every morning they wake up and then thinking about how they could be better. Uh

1:30:34 You know, on the side of the love, peace and love and stuff like that. We get it on the face. Ah, we look at the sun, we meditate, and and we're a little more slow to react at that. So I guess we have to be a little more organized. If I'm understanding you correctly, I mean it sounds like You're suggesting maybe defaulting to trusting people and expecting sometimes you're gonna get punched in the face, but that's just the tax you pay for being optimistic? Or are there other ways that you protect the fundamentals?

1:31:02 No, I would say it. At the end, there's more success than failure. But the failure or More Touching.

1:31:09 Than the win of trust. Because it's usually attached to deception. So I'm talking more about the The deception, you know, you're in business, you win, you lose, you make good decisions, you do bad decisions, that's part of it. Yeah, nobody's perfect. And nobody's perfect in the choice of who you work with, who you trust or not. It's part of doing business.

1:31:26 It's more deep than that what I'm saying. It's just like So this is why I guess As much On this conversation at the beginning to establish Not the contract. This is why my contract I always

1:31:38 Not put just the legal part. I always start the first page by The assumption. The spirit of how a deal is done. Because my wish that if there's conflict Before going on the legal battle, you look at what the spirit of the deal was.

1:31:52 And if you have sensitive people, intelligent people, they will relate to this. Foundation version the word of the legal uh things. And that's actually a page in the document. That has the contract. It's a page on the contract.

1:32:07 Where the first page is not about legal stuff, it's about the philosophy, the spirit of why we're doing the dream. What brought us to that deal? What is the spirit of the deal? Okay. I made a mistake. To forget that Sometime.

1:32:23 And this was the most chaotic thing is because I'm telling you, it's like If you're not attached to the spirit and it's just legal, we're living in a country, you know, not America, m specifically in the States, hit in me or make me happy, make a mistakes and not clear It's much more difficult for person to deny. The spirit if it's been w written down. It was the night say it's not what I say.

1:32:46 Mm-hmm. Because when you try to bring the spirit in a uh oral conversation, they will always find a way to justify that it's not what they say. Right. The thing? It's very difficult for them. Then it's betrayal. You understand? Then you know it's a betrayal. It's not a misunderstanding. Is that first page, I'm very interested in this, is it almost just like regular text, like it's paragraphs or is it bullets or it's understanding that we uh desire to

1:33:14 Conquer planet March. We will do everything's to you know, it's like very poetic sometimes, very philosophic, it's very mission oriented, you know. We all do document in business a mission and vision and stuff. Why are we not putting those principle

1:33:31 Right in a contract when two parties do things because This become a new mission. This is built on new value. And I think this is I believe An antidote. Against persecution or illegal

1:33:44 Process. Yeah. That's very smart. Wow. I've not been that smart all the time because I'm in some case that that I forgot to put it or my family office I've forgot to put it.

1:33:55 But Now I'm telling you, this will be from now on. Even with experience I did forget to put it because I guess I even trust it more than I believe that I should not put in on it, and that became the biggest betrayal in business I ever did.

1:34:08 So No It's there, forever. So you mentioned a name earlier that I'd love to hear you say more about. So I think you mentioned Steve Wynn. So how does Steve Wynn Fit into this story. Game changer.

1:34:22 Steve Wynn uh game changer for me. Oh, and I was starting to sole always Fan myself by going to see uh as much show as possible. So Right up in a circle, I would go visit the artist and I will always make a stop in Vegas. To see the entertainment that.

1:34:37 And then suddenly Mirage arrived there and the Siegfried and Roy show was there and as my the Not the entire. It was like mind blowing. I said, Wow. I was so inspiring and impactful for me.

1:34:51 Because I realize and make me realize that wait a minute. F Yes. As his baby foot.

1:34:59 Of modern entertainment. You know, you have New York on one side, London on the other side. But VS is still cheesy. They have big production, but still Not deep in the what we call the theatrical, the artistic very Flamboyant is big thing and they put a lot of money. You have a volcano, you have like f uh showers or whatever, uh hundred dancers, you have the spectacular

1:35:23 But when you analyze that in the Artistic quality things is is level one. And then with this twenty minutes, I say, Wait a minute, I look around. It's one, two, three, four, five. They don't have big show or this big show has been.

1:35:37 So they suddenly realize just wait a minute. The city. have the potential of becoming the third biggest entertainment city in the world after New York or with New York and London. And this is where sooner I start to With a lot of focus.

1:35:52 Then we have Caesars was the first one to approach us. From a vice president entertainment part, Caesar's location. So we engage in the development of the Which I had that time to put three hundred thousand dollar, they put three hundred thousand dollar

1:36:07 And we develop a concept of shows called Timeless Kiss. But Timeless Kiss is the first show which is uh But Miss Tair. Okay. You stay on Treasure Island. But we went through a level.

1:36:18 present to the board and re clock Terry Lani and Sentury City in Los Angeles. All those Very age person with a couple of young executive. And we pitch and we believe at that moment that we did a great pitch for confidence in the show. And actually the deal with them was far away from the deal I imagine the Shizu was Steve.

1:36:37 So I'm back in Montreal waiting the answer. I received a phone call. I was on my treadmill. And This Vice President said, Well, sorry, I have a bad news what? So well The board

1:36:48 think that your show is too esoteric for Las Vegas. Isotheric was the word. To explain me why they're not go ahead with the deal. Irage. I don't think ever in my life had done so many hours of stepmaster in my life and there were hours raging screaming for three hours.

1:37:08 And then it was wait a minute, and that was three hundred thousand dollar investment at the moment. We're talking nineteen Nine ninety one, beginning of a success. And that was into the concept development. Yeah, well yes, yes. We were trying to make a deal with one of the casino to put our product there. Then that fell.

1:37:26 So we went around next one. Next one is the Ealton. where Elvis Presley was there at that time it was like uh a Broadway show was there. Same story. Pitch, pitch, pitch, song, it's too complex.

1:37:40 And then that that one I didn't rage because I Having received that answer once, I s uh was expecting And then like A week after I received a message. Call C Wind called you.

1:37:51 Call back. So I call back Monsieur La Liberté. Shed. I heard you were flirting with my competitors. Have you made any uh Deal with my competition.

1:38:07 S No why? I said Why did you come see me? I said, Wow, you have the best show in town. I didn't even think You'll be interesting my brother, you're the best show in town.

1:38:18 Well he said I would like to have conversation we I think I have some things that we could bring so do so late. So that you seem to say I've seen in an uh in uh um Santa Monica in nineteen eighty seven in Oh I said we have a new show. Scalouvelle Experience, have you seen? No. I want you to see it.

1:38:35 Said, Where are you? So while I'm in Toronto now. But I said before we converge I want you to see what I am about now. Okay, I don't know at that moment that he have a his eye problem and vision problem.

1:38:46 So you said I'll be there Friday with my CO and uh One or two board member. So we flow in. Force you, man.

1:38:54 Look at things. We go into a mission and say I like it. So I would like to bring this show. Behind the mirage.

1:39:03 And we could set up that. You turn around, he said, deal. Look at that deal. And he present his end. I said well we have to negotiate This guy? We'll make sure that you will have a good deal and I will have a good deal and we'll make it happen.

1:39:16 I need to be activated very fast. Shake him. Yeah, make a deal. They bought all the new equipment, build the things behind the mirage. And uh I didn't know at that time that for him

1:39:30 You have something else, you have the treasure island what isn't mine and actually you want to lock me down. He did that contract just to lock me down so I could not talk to others. Because he in two years after he was building this thing and it cost his money. And on the top of that. Opening night, my God.

1:39:47 Again, all the big shabang. Of Vegas and still have very powerful and influential friends. In the political things, the the the the business side. Yeah, the spankers there. And opening night.

1:39:59 One artist. Animation again. But this one Could have been turned very bad. Did that two thousand time i sliin on a roll from the tower.

1:40:10 over the head of people On the stage. We're about to start a show. I'm seeing from the side of my light the artist. Fell on the

1:40:19 People. Oh god. I think I experience What it means and what is the temperature and the feeling to be in the tomb. The sound

1:40:30 The sound of the big top. The CEO Bobby Bowen see the same thing and see when don't see what what w what's going on. What's going on. And CO said, Well There's an artist who fell.

1:40:42 And he knew that we fell. I think it was a banker, one of the major bankers. So you just fill another bank. And Steve said, what? And dead silence. So Thank God.

1:40:55 It was just kind of like hurt on the shoulder. He couldn't break his neck. Basically one inches on the side to break the neck. And that was it for me. It was done. Terrific.

1:41:05 So we go to show and you know, it was a hard show to start a show and build up success. So The reaction at the end was good, but it was not The tyramic, you know, it was not overwhelming it was like Everybody was like uh is he okay and uh

1:41:20 So we overcome that moment that could have been crucial, and then uh Two, three months after they said the real reason why I I want to Lock you down is because I'm doing treasure island. I want you to do the main show of this uh thing. So The show.

1:41:34 gave us and became the timeless kids that we may miss there. We try to explain our creative process, which we need, you know, you give us a theater, we'll design it for a show. But we need dust free and we need time to rehearsal and with clowns. We need the audience to test things and stuff like so. Theoretically you got everything.

1:41:54 First dress rehearsal. Another magic moment with Steven. Ah, my clown. The same Benny, by the way, huh? The same Benny That is my clown. He wanna do a satyric The fire hose. Right. The water hose. The same one who did that.

1:42:10 Still believe he's one of the best clown in the world, but you want to do an original clown act, which is about a satiric number of boxing in Las Vegas. And it's game is to set up kind of boxing things, theatrical one. invite an audience member to have a boxing fight that end up to throw each other tarts. Cream tarts.

1:42:31 Okay. But but the test people are only the worker of the casino plus all the executive because Steve Winask, all this top executive, go check it out. First we don't even call that a dress real, so we call that a lion den. Meaning it's the cage of for lion. So it's the risk we're taking there and we just want a little bit, normally we invite friends and family, small crowd.

1:42:54 The room is like Probably fifty percent of the executive with the tire right there. And the number go wrong. Benny panic. The clown panic and he started to throw all the tart on the audience.

1:43:06 Ha ha. So Of course I received a phone call from Steve Wynn that's doing ski and I spam said what the Well I will not use the word.

1:43:16 Happen. Like, what are you doing? What is it to show tarts to people in the room in the new theater like I said Steve. It's like this was the lion dance and we're testing it get wrong and stuff like that. The clown panic. We'll correct that. Don't worry, that's part of the process. And I said yeah, and he said

1:43:35 There's no F Wait. Exactly. Well I didn't say it, you said it. I just tried to play with the situation. So he said, listen. I'm flying tomorrow. I want a private view. Of the show.

1:43:55 Okay. And there's no way you will open this show. And I will tell you what's work what doesn't work. I have the experience of that. In Las Vegas. And we're there. Everybody's freaking out. So I'm cranking because as I the uh tweet.

1:44:08 Took months to explain him this process. And now it's like threading me to not open the show or whatever, you know, in a Steve Wing way. We arrive. I'm not sitting with him, I'm sitting with Bobby Baldwin as CO because he's my friend and that's the one I made the deal.

1:44:24 Franco Dragon and Jill Saint Oi, the director and the director of creation with Steve. And you could see Steve, and you know. Don't show that have so much mechanic on it. You cannot put the artist on risk. So you don't run the shot real speed. You run the show in a safe way, so you mark the step and then you know it's a process.

1:44:43 So I'm obliged to to run a show that's supposed to give him the information what the show is about But instead of being a hundred miles an hour, it's running at seventy five. So obviously uh you don't see the beauty of the race car, you know, it's like it's like It is just safety, safety, safety. You mark, you check a client, does the light could affect an acrobat, you know, there's all hundreds of detail. So obviously

1:45:06 Everything is slow down. So At the end of the show. Stand up. We have a meeting with him. And he's around the table, he look at the he talk to us. What the fuck is this show?

1:45:18 He says look and feel Like a fucking German opera. Ha ha ha. Frico Dragon, the director, turn around and say, Thank you, Steve. This is the biggest compliment you can ever tell me about the chakra.

1:45:34 Ha ha Swear God, this is true sorry. I see this is like, what? Just here, I just tell you the show is a piece of crap. And you're telling me thank you by telling me that by And yeah, and Francois is like you know.

1:45:50 German Opera. It's very important in the word of open rise for the institution. And and Steve is totally disability. And then he starts to say, I like that, I don't like that, I I want you to change that. And then I intervene and said, No, Steve. I said

1:46:07 I explain you, explain you the things. We're not done yet with the show. This will be a great show. Trust me. And by the way. I have the last word contractually about what will be the show. Or not.

1:46:18 And his reaction Yeah but I control the room and if I decide nobody goes in, fair from you. Then you'll be in penality because if I deliver a show and I have the right If you don't wanna let people in, it's your problem. I would have done my job. And then he turned rage because he said, You have to understand Steve Wynn

1:46:35 Always have control hundred percent of his narrative. Everybody's at this foot. Here's a little kid from Quebec and like just standing in front of them saying no. When people tell him yes three times in a row to make sure you not understand no Yes.

1:46:49 And then he turned a Belly Ball and C What the fuck is that tongue track? I don't have the last word. It's how about Steve, you ask you to make a deal with them and that's what a breakdown you'd ask me to make sure that it will be with us. I did it. That was a condition. It was a break deal. I signed it. To the credit of Save. To the credit of steel.

1:47:07 At the moment, as CEO said this is contractually binding. C now okay then. I will have to trust you. I hope you're right. And you will prove me wrong.

1:47:19 But here it is. I will trust you. See you at opening night. Just like that. Just like that. Opening night. Day after sold out sold out sold out. We were the hit new show Rock Vegas. Then after that there was a whole show and you know the story. It's like bang bang bang.

1:47:36 To a certain point that after he sold to MGM There's a moment of the pentacle of things. We were responsible of six percent. of about forty million visitor of primary reason why people were coming to Vegas. And we'll control the almost thirty nine percent of every entertainment tickets in Las Vegas.

1:47:55 Wow. So we did contribute a little bit. Now Vegas is a total red ocean, but we arrive, create a blue ocean, and just like squeeze it. With beautiful show and They were giving us all the money we want to create the most amazing show and all is an example of it.

1:48:11 It was like Masterpiece. It was like That's the perfect match with somebody who believe in you, have a lot of money And a team that arrive at creative maturity to do his masterpiece. So I'll just mention for people Blue Ocean, the Blue Ocean strategy also a great book worth reading that gets more into this concept, but Which was a test case uh story is part of uh

1:48:32 A case study on it. And it's very interesting. And uh people who will read it It really make you understand how addressing a red ocean by creating a blue ocean is could totally be a a game changer for an enterprise and the way of thinking about your Envisioning strategy. Yeah, total game changer. And I would love to ask you more about Steve Wynn. We might come back to it, but I know we're coming up on two hours, so I want to be respectful of your time, but let me ask you this question, which is

1:48:56 I would love to get your perspective on maybe what people miss about Cirque de Soleil and why it became successful, because I imagine there are many people listening to this. Who will wonder, and I've wondered this too, why didn't someone else do this? Well, we were a pioneer. But after the success, like any good success. You have impact.

1:49:17 Creative mind with production company. S We'll have the easy reaction, a lazy reaction of trying to copy you. Very bad for them, very bad for the business, very bad for my brand. Why? Because

1:49:31 They will play inspire by they will call that a sick laon, sick of that. To try to Grab the Flavor. And I track them.

1:49:41 By trying to sell that they're at the same level, right? Disaster. And this For me it's lazy people to do that and non creative people. There's some of that and you have to deal with that.

1:49:54 I'm some driver usually They don't last long. But it does affect your credibility for a period of time, but people are not stupid. They will understand what is the real recipe versus the fake one, right? We're the original.

1:50:07 Then there's the other one that you inspire. Okay. Young artists, and I had a lot. I was responsible with a lot of new Emergent entertainment company that inspired himself about what we did.

1:50:19 And Became the second generation. You know, it's like an art. You have the first generation, you have the second generation, and you have the The other one that or we call the derivative. Derivative of the bad one. You know? Sometimes make money out things.

1:50:35 But they're just copy and they have no contribution to the evolution of the art. But today we are nurture, Sickness nurture. Dozen. Of second generation of artists and things. And it's not necessarily always about circus.

1:50:49 Ah, Mia Wolf, for example. I don't know if you know Mia Wolf. So For example, me I will without saying they're second gener, but they are because I know the Father or some of them. And you know, obviously we had a huge impact in Inspiring.

1:51:04 cultural or artistic entrepreneur to use us as inspiration and my all some of them I said well listen you've been very important in inspiring us and many other like that. And when you see This or even in circus there's been little troops, Kalois, things uh all like babies of Sig du Soleil.

1:51:24 Define their own style. Yeah. Inspire and and contribute to the elevation of the art of circus. And that's beautiful. And there's more of that that's failure and actually

1:51:35 It's very weird then. to see that type of impact you could have on the next generation. So Yes, it's people who try. But the clever one are the one who don't try to copy but try to make their own signature.

1:51:48 So Okay. I want to Be respectful of time. Do you want to keep going for like ten, fifteen minutes or Okay.

1:51:56 I would like to talk about the community, you know, which is Again. The beautiful four years that I live with amazing colorful people that come from the same Environment of work which is funny. Then

1:52:09 Obviously I sold Sig de Soleil two thousand fifteen. Many things happen, another story to tell. And I'm jumping to the conclusion where when from family office Different portfolio.

1:52:24 Explore a lot of things. I don't wanna go details. Rough moment, COVID having to And I was about to activate new content new project and Covid kill it all, lost my investors and stuff like that. You know like Starting to lose

1:52:38 Not every year. Now it's like at least couple of months friends that are dying. You know, make me realise that wait a minute. I'm not saying clock is ticking, but let's say time pass and it does have an impact. And I realized that

1:52:52 What became important from lost my parents And then suddenly it was about, wait a minute. One of my dream because I had some dream in my life, but my recent dream was about A. I would love to go back with all my group of people or friends, invite them on the island, or your uh my uh whatever. And spend a couple of days or a night just with a good bottle of wine.

1:53:14 And just listen what their life was about. just to see the people you love what they evolve because a lot of them I always keep contact with them. But the some I've not seen for twenty years. And we're still in contact with just Would love to. Hag or selfie and and

1:53:28 And have a good conversation again. So It changed the last couple years, really, specially from last year. About fourteen months ago I really went through that period of Whoa What are my priority? First.

1:53:42 Family office type of money management. I'm an entrepreneur. Okay, I need action. I don't have the patience of most of the things. One of my investment was the

1:53:55 Biggest betrayal of my life. I said, Wait a minute. I want to be with my friend. I want to be with my loved one. I want to be with my tribe. I want to be with my family. So It shifted made me the decision that I said, I want to do shows again. So the last year about and I'll since last September, yeah, about a year.

1:54:12 I've been gearing up and with developing concept and and with some of it with My old friends that we told ourselves, let's do something again. And a bunch of young new. Kids. Young people that have the fire, the drive.

1:54:28 And that invite To play with us. and make sure with all my elders that we use this opportunity Of creating things. And transfer

1:54:38 the knowledge of what we are wisdom form them and give them and work with them so they could carry on A nice entertainment environment. And at the end what does it mean is What is the conclusion of that is like?

1:54:51 You know, in life you could have all the success you want, you could have all that. But what's the most important in your family, your friends, your tribe, the people that live A life with. And the comfort of that is so much important than anything else after. Which at the end If you realize that and for me, this exercise.

1:55:08 of starting up a new entertainment company with new show that I cannot disclose today, but I believe they're pretty ass kicker also there. We have First of all, we have a lot of fun. We're laughing our ass out every morning that we're Writing and creating that thing.

1:55:23 So we'll live or die from the public reaction, but amongst the team here we're like cranking up and we have a lot of joys. But at the end, what all this will permit me is somewhere. Hopefully. To this new adventure engage in. Which I didn't have to is maybe end up

1:55:39 Having achieved to one of my goal at the end, which is I mentioned it before being a good ancestor. And this is all the Desire of giving back as much as Could.

1:55:50 In the time lapse, and I hope there's another thirty years, whatever. My goal is at least under the hundred years, but I was fed by so much love, so much joy, so much opportunity that But I got was bigger than what one individual has. So

1:56:05 Trying to find a way that How could I give back of all that to What I know best is creating shows. and creating entertainment companies. So this is where I am. We talked about the tome one. There's a tone two.

1:56:17 And I'm starting to engage don't treat. Basically. Very different and also very interconnected chapters, it would seem. And How much of the getting back to performing or shows

1:56:31 Is The performing in the shows, the content versus having a reason or an excuse to get together with your old friends and the performers. Well, there's different factor on that. One Yeah. I I realize I didn't do my epilogue.

1:56:47 You know, I laugh at the pain of the cold, I visit things. I had a bad result thing for X reason, again another conversation. But What is my epilogue in all this amazing creative production? Adventure.

1:57:01 And what I'm working now is my epilogue. The second thing is a challenge. It's funny. As much I'm very active sometimes, I have the impression that I could become very lazy when comfort is there. So I always perform the best when I'm On the cliff. Um

1:57:16 It's true. It's true. And knowing that if I decide to come back on that and I'm risking a lot. I cannot do what I did at Sulay. I have to find different way, I have to address every angle of the artistic experience I'm about to do. With a different look at it. And this is Intellectually so

1:57:34 So Challenging and interesting. So I'm having a very interesting brain activities with all those hamsters that's key rolling. The hamsters are definitely. Awake in this brain. Alive and well. Dancing on the cliff. Well, Gee, is there anything else you'd like to say, any requests of my audience or anything else that you'd like to add before we Close.

1:57:55 This first round. Yeah, but uh if I open my mouth again it will be five dollar by word that I say from the case. No problem. No problem. Well well, this has been uh incredibly fun. I'm glad that this finally came together. And uh I really appreciate you taking the time And sharing everything that you've shared. And uh hopefully we'll get a chance to do a round. To have a good bottle of wine together. Have a good bottle of wine. Absolutely.

1:58:25 Where are you based? I'm based in Austin, Texas. Oh okay. But I travel a lot. So I'm on both coasts. I'm international frequently. So I'm sure there's an opportunity or we can make an opportunity. I spend a lot of time in Vegas, especially by activating certain things. Uh we'll have uh let's make sure we don't lose contact. I would definitely Either a good bottle of sake over a good Japanese meal or uh A good bottle of wine, the red wine, uh burgundy over a good meal.

1:58:52 Sounds perfect. And Really appreciate you taking all the time and to everybody listening. We will link to everything in the show notes and more at Tim.blog slash podcast. And as always, be a little bit kinder than is necessary, both to others and to yourself. Until next time, thanks for tuning in. Hey guys, this is Tim again, just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bold Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out. every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kinda like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading.

1:59:45 Albums, perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests, and these strange esoteric things end up in my field, and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short. a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to Tim.blog slash Friday. Type that into your browser, Tim dot blog slash. Friday, drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening. This episode is brought to you by 8 Sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep, and heat is my personal nemesis. I've suffered for decades tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling the back on, putting one leg on top, and repeating all of that ad nauseum.

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