Advice Line with Leah Solivan of Taskrabbit (September 2024)

Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/daeaa8908a07bf78

Hey everyone, it's Guy here. So this week we're bringing you an advice line episode that we really, really loved. It was with Leah Sullivan, the founder of TaskRabbit. And I was super happy to have Leah back on the show because she has a really interesting perspective on the growth of the digital sharing economy, which was really just taking off when she started TaskRabbit back in.
Yeah.
Leo was so generous, sharing her wisdom and experience and
I hope it can serve as an inspiration for however you're trying to grow as well. So without further ado.
Enjoy the show.
Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab.
I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will attempt with me
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Alright.
Let's get to it.
Joining me this week is Leah Sullivan, she's the founder of TaskRabbit, the online marketplace for services like cleaning, assembling furniture, running errands, and a whole lot more.
Leo, welcome back to the show. Thanks for coming on.
It's great to be back, guy. Thanks for having me.
Super excited to have you back on the show because
Today we're gonna talk to founders who are all uh building
App based or web based.
products or services and um and you're one of the OGs in this space movement. I mean when when ideas like like Airbnb and and Uber weren't yet fully formed, you actually launched Task Rabbit in 2008. And I mean this is one of the first
brands, it became part of what we now call the digital sharing economy. Um and of course in twenty seventeen
Uh you guys were the company was acquired by
By IKEA.
Exactly. Yeah. I mean it was early days and it's been awesome to see Task Rabbit and the brand live on. Uh I was just at an IKEA store a couple weeks ago and kinda got a kick at him seeing all the branding around the store as well. Yeah.
Um Leo, before we get to to to our callers, I
I suspect a lot of them
are working on ideas that
that might seem a bit ahead of their time, like it might be hard to convince people why they might need that product or service.
Um
When you
ran into this dilemma.
You know, with Tas Rabbit at the beginning. How how did you work to convince people that this was a service that they would want or need? Like they would actually have somebody come into their home and assemble their furniture or you know, or or go run an errand for them and bring it to their house?
insane at the time to invite a stranger into your house to do things. And even stranger to jump into someone's car, right? For a ride down the street. That was never gonna happen in two thousand and eight. But you know, um having experience now as an investor and having talked to
hundreds, if not thousands, of entrepreneurs. I really think it comes down to
Three things.
Timing technology.
And Tam, the three Ts.
And you know, for me with Task Rabbit.
The technology was there.
The time was there.
And it was an idea that everybody understood immediately, so I felt like there was
a market there as well.
And it still took a lot of education and trust building. Um and over time, you know, it really started to scale rather quickly. So
You don't always have all three of those things at once. Yeah.
And sometimes it's not the right time or the market or maybe the technology isn't advanced enough. And so those are kind of the three things I would think about.
when you're looking at a new idea and can you make those three things converge?
When do you remember
it it really starting to gain traction. Because it didn't it was not a it w it was not an immediate it wasn't like all of a sudden you s flip the switch and people are like, Yes. No. It really wasn't. I mean we were this tiny company in Boston for
you know, almost two years before we even opened the San Francisco market. But you know, once we started opening new cities and we saw
the people in every single city and every single market.
start to use the service, give us great reviews, tell their friends. It was a slow build.
But then it you know, you kinda start to build momentum.

All right. Why don't we um take our first caller?
Let's do it.
Hello, caller number one. Welcome to the advice line.
Hi Guy Leah, my name is Kate Pittner and I'm calling from Los Angeles. Welcome.
And I am the founder and creator of the Poppy Notes app.
on the Apple App Store.
Um I designed Poppy Notes to be um an e cards and greetings mobile app.
That will let you easily send
Text and email.
Green cards and instant invites and thinking of your notes.
Uh, from the ease of your phone.
Awesome. Well welcome to the show. Thank you for calling in. Um
Before we get to your question, um let me ask you a couple of questions. So so this is an app that basically lets you send like a c a card to somebody, just a digital card. Yes, yes.
And it's designed to be very simple. That was
That was the key.
Right. And tell me how you um I'm assuming you have a a design background. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I have been a commercial graphic designer for over twenty years and
I partnered with
Companies like Hallmark, um, Flygology, Joanne Fabrics, Home Depot.
Um, but ever since I was a little girl, I always wanted to have my own greeting card line. And um I used to sit in my room and draw and my poor family had to take all of my cards for all of those years. Uh many, many cards. Um
And when twenty twenty hit and the pandemic hit and we all couldn't
communicate like we
were accustomed to and being able to to stay connected to people. I started making greeting cards that I could uh text and email to family and friends. And people really loved them. And they kept going, where do you get these? I want to text and email these too.
And that kind of
started the whole process and that's uh took a couple years and
and a whole lot of time and
Stress and development and um
I
I was able to launch two weeks before Christmas in twenty twenty two on the app store.
And basically the app makes it
Easy.

Write a message to somebody on
on a a a card, believe a designed card, and you could just text it to them or you t you turn it into like a text or an email or or or what?
Yeah, yeah. So you you go on the app and you select I have'em categorized by different um
themes so holidays or birthdays or thank yous.
Yeah.
Pick your card you want, you scroll through the options, tap on it, type your message.
I've added some fun features where you can, you know, customize the font and color and the
size and make it really personal.
And then you just uh click send and you can choose to s text it, to email it, you can social share.
Uh kinda has a lot of a lot of fun options. Yeah. And ha and and did you have to make a a like a sizable investment to make to develop this to get
Mm
people to help you build it or did you build it yourself or yeah. Luckily I could do all the designing of the artwork. Um
I'm not a coder and that was my first hurdle. I I asked a number of friends, got some mentoring on what on earth this coding thing is and how to even do it. Um, it's a whole different language.
And I did uh find I gr had a few different developers. I have a great development team and and that's how I
kinda started I I had to teach myself how to do
uh the basics like the UIUX design.
Um
I did that myself and then we built from there. Got it. And and the app is
For like a freemium.
model so it's like free, but then you pay for some stuff.
Yeah, so it's free to download and I have a welcome pack of cards that are free for everyone to use and um start using right away. I also have a another category I just added called Spotlight where I'm partnering with
nonprofits to create up their own line of poppy notes cards, like you know, breast cancer awareness, and then um to receive full access to the entire library. It's um a low monthly subscription uh US dollar ninety nine a month.
Got it. Okay. And and before we get to Leah, tell me um
What what question you brought for us today?
My problem is, or my biggest challenge is finding and reaching my audience, particularly as a tech product.
Um
And it's easy to get lost on the app store. It's easy to get lost on Instagram. I'm trying to reach my audience.
I know that was something you've definitely dealt with, Leah. Yeah. All right. Before Leah, before we get to
to the question, to Kate's question. Um do you have
Questions for
for for Kate and and for what she's building? Yeah, well, Kate, first off, super impressive that you've been able to build this much, you know, basically on your own and
all of the design work that you've done. I mean, it's really, really incredible. Um, and so yeah, I mean I think I understand the question just reaching that audience and
I think um
You know, my main, I guess, question and feedback, and I I'd love to hear how you think about this is
I know that there's a lot of categories and a lot of designs available right now on Poppy Notes, which is amazing. Um, the app store is super, super crowded for lifestyle apps. I mean, it's just like
crazy how many apps are in that category. And so it it takes a lot to stand out. It takes a lot to rise above the noise. So I'm wondering how can we figure out what the wedge is
that you can create that differentiates you and what you're offering people. And maybe it starts with how people are using it already, or maybe it's something new and different that, you know, we haven't tried yet. So what are what are your thoughts there?

That's a very good question. So
In the category idea, you're talking about different themes and different
types of cards so maybe I want to market a real specific theme.
to a specific audience so that it can hook.
That audience is that
kind of what you're asking. That's kind of what I'm thinking. And I just wonder, like if you kind of look at the competitive landscape of what's out there today, like I think Paperless Post, I think Evite, I think these big apps, you know, that you know have kind of built up their base over many, many years, even decades.
And they're kinda have this generalist approach where they're available across all these categories. I wonder if
Is there a category that
Maybe they're missing or maybe is an opportunity for you to focus on like okay, I have
I have babies on the mind. We're getting ready to have our fourth child. I wonder, like, is there something around like gender reveal or or something that is like a little bit more
you know, unique, different, where you start to build that wedge, you start to build an experience.
through the app, through your designs, that is that's differentiated. No, that's really good. I I actually
I'm thinking too about babies and
Yeah, the idea of
I I I know when I was in that stage of life too, it's just all encompassing. But I do know a lot of my really popular cards are
school age children cards mom support cards
Those kind of
Those kind of things might be really perfect, what you're saying. Yeah, and and even I would think through the full stack of how to reach your audience, are there influencers?
Are there, you know, mommy bloggers, mommy influencers? I mean, that's a huge category. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that I you know, paperless post is not partnering with them. Like you could be the one partnering with them, right? And it's differentiated, it's unique, it's custom.
I mean, there is so much noise, but I think if you can find the right ambassadors, the right influencers that align with your brand and values and voice, it can be really
really powerful. I would
You know, uh just looking at the app on the app store as well.
It's just it's gonna get lost in the app store.
Like I don't I don't know how much
time I would, you know, spend trying to optimize that. Um, one thing you could do there, though.
is if you start to build a wedge in a category that is standing out, maybe you can try to
get on some lists in the app store that are, you know, like top five or top ten, like baby shower, you know, life it not just the lifestyle brand, but very specific because it's just so hard to be
In that
that big group. I think you really gotta hone in on something that's that's really differentiated.
To me, you know, a lot of these
these different apps are I mean uh you know, we we've had Canva on the show and and and
uh you know, some of these other
companies on the show and brands on the show and they're awesome. They they they offer great products. Um
Not always super easy for somebody like me to figure out quickly because I'm sort of useless. And so it seems like this is really this is like like super plug and play. Like I can teach my, you know, eighty two year old dad how to use this in like five minutes. That's the goal.
Yeah, and and that to me seems like an opportunity to to sort of maybe senior citizens too. You know, I talk to my dad every day and my mom and they they wanna talk to their grandkids and maybe this is something that
There's a way on especially on the blog, because I notice you've you've got a blog, which I think is great because that's a another way to reach people when they're doing searches.
Uh to maybe think about ways to
to direct some of the message to
seniors as well. You know, hey, is this a way to re send a message to your grandkids with just a funny photo and your a funny message.
Ah it's a great idea. Actually I mock up a lot of my cards in my marketing.
with that in mind. So I love that you taped right in. That's
That's I need to do a little bit more of that, I think.
Yeah.
Quick thought which is
Creating virality, right? And it's not so easy, but um, if you if you've heard the show before, you'll hear this theme pop up again and again, which is the number one thousand.
Um and and this is a this is a highly researched number, which is the argument that to start something to create momentum for a brand or product, you need a thousand
People who adopt it.
And those thousand people become the force multipliers, right? And so
Is there a way could c and I don't know the exact answer, but and I and I'm sure you've thought about this, but
When you send this as a text, when you send it as an email
For there to be some kind of link.
That
Essentially says wanna make your own.
I love and you click it, you know, I mean this is the story of Slack or Dropbox or you know
um these other viral products which is in order to use Dropbox you gotta
Set up a drop box. So it invites you to do it.
And I wonder whether it's like hey
Uh this
Do you like this? You know, click here to
To to make your own poppy notes.
Okay, that's a good idea.
And then you get every m every member of your family, distant family, relatives you'd haven't talked to for tw twenty five years, people you thought you didn't have to see ever again Thanksgiving, get all of them to use poppy notes, everybody you know.
Because I'm sure if you if you think about it, you probably have
Hundreds of people distant
r you know, peop people all over, you know, loose connections that you can just send this out to shamelessly.
And say hey try this.
And send it on to other people and
Tell me what you think.
Absolutely. And now you have two more fans right here. So that means. Absolutely. I love it. Thank you very, very much, both of you.
All right, Kate Pittner, poppy notes, good luck. Congrats.
Thank you so much. Take care.
All right.
Do you know, uh you probably had this experience, Leah, which is
It's your birthday.
And your kids are trying to figure out what to do for you and you say to them
I just want you to make me a card.
Absolutely.
I have all those cards for my kids.
Yes.
Now I'm gonna say make me a poppy note.
Make me a pop, you know. You know the stick figures just like
There's something really special about that about a uh yeah. So I'm thinking about Kate as a little girl always wanting to have a grieving card company. Yes. The dream. I love that. It's a dream. I love that. It's a dream.
Alright, we're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, another collar, another question, and another round of advice.
I'm Guy Raw, stick around, you're listening to the Advice Line on how I built this.
Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and my guest today is TaskRabbit Founder Leah Sullivan. So Leah, let's um let's bring in our next caller. Hello, welcome to the advice line.
Hello, Lear and Guy.
My name's Sean Sarekley and I'm from Sydney, Australia, and I'm delighted to be here talking to you today. Welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about um the the name of your product and what what it does.
Yeah, so along with my wife, I'm the co-found founder of My Love Your Love, which is a couples coaching app.
Which is designed to take couples on a journey to unlock
all the amazing benefits of long term relationships.
Wow, I'm sure there's a lot to ask you about because you are
I imagine y you and your partner are doing a couple's therapy.
thing then there's a lot to to unpack here. Tell me about how so how does it work? It's an app you download and
Presumably designed for people who are having problems or
Or or what? Absolut a actually
It's designed for anybody in a relationship.
And one of the main reasons to create this app
is because people come to therapy
way too late. And we know the longer you've had problems in your relationship, the more likely it is that you're gonna break up and that interventions aren't gonna be as helpful.
So this app is for anybody. If you do have problems, yes, it is gonna help you.
That's really designed to make your relationship robust and deepen your bonds over the lifetime.
And and tell me a a little bit about you and and your wife. Um, are I'm a s imagining both of you guys are therapists.
We are indeed. So we're both clinical psychologists and we're both couples therapists as well.
Um, so it means that
You know, I can tell you we have a great relationship, but we've had plenty of conflict.
And um
you know, part of the app is actually wanting to
Take all of our clinical knowledge.
Take all the research and distill it into an app.
Uh coming back to that question before, how does it work? Well
Thank you
Both parties have to download the app. It's fulnized.
You go on a journey together through a map, through many different interventions and strategies.
And as you move through that journey
Two things happen. One is you unlock your toolbox.
So that when problems arise in real life
You can go straight to your toolbox and access them in real time.
And on the other side, you actually build out your relationship profile.
So you get to learn about your own vulnerabilities, the vulnerabilities of your partner.
Your conflict styles
your values and your desires. And there's more features to the app than that actually also.
Huh.
Wow.
So how did this idea come about? I mean I mean, it y imagine you guys are are were and are busy
doing in real life couples therapy in Sydney.
So how did you
Guys.
come up with the idea of like let's make an app and and w and was it like because
Presumably you want to reach more people because it it's expensive to go to couples therapy and you want a more affordable option, like what
Tell me about it. Absolutely, all of those things. I think couples therapy is universally expensive and separation and divorce is astronomically expensive. Yeah.
So we wanted to create a product that anybody can get access to.
And look, I've been a psychologist for twenty three years now.
And I've seen the power of a positive relationship.
And sadly
I've seen how devastating
you know, conflictual and toxic relationships can be.
not just on the people in the relationship, but those around them as well.
And there's a lot of focus on
curing disorders, but there's not a lot of focus on preventing and promoting good mental health.
So we thought
How can we make the biggest impact?
And also
There's not really a good guide or handbook.
about how to have a relationship.
So we thought
We need to get this out there to prevent the problems before they happen.
So basically what based on your experience, right? And this seems intuitive, but I you know so many things that seem so plainly obvious that we just don't do or ignore. But essentially what you're saying is if you can
It's c if you can sort of focus on on conflict resolution.
quickly.
Then that kind of
Opens up.
the possibility of strengthening.
A relationship and preventing it from spiraling.
Absolutely. So relationships and behaviors run in cycles and feedback loops.
And
The longer conflict goes on for the more damage you do.
But more than that.
We also know that
You know, positive behaviors.
Are protective of the relationship. So for example
If you have a habit of being loving or kind towards your partner,
you're you're gonna be more uncomfortable with conflict and wanna go back to the status quo.
Now a lot of people great relationships have that habit and a lot of relationships don't.
So the app actually helps you identify
What cycles.
Do you have which are good?
What are the patterns and cycles and vulnerabilities that you have, which you probably picked up from your family of origin?
From past relationships.
How do we find the antidote to those as a couple?
And then we put in the positive behaviors as well. And how much what what's the cost?
Okay, so it's a hundred and eight dollars per year if you want to get the yearly version.
Or seventeen dollars ninety eight.
Per month.
So l on the higher end of apps, but presumably a lot cheaper than going to
Uh uh.
Well, absolutely. It's a lot cheaper than just one couple's therapy session.
And Sean, what what what's the question you brought up for us today? Okay, so my question is about user acquisition.
So
We do have a social media campaign going, um, and we do have a monthly newsletter, which has about eleven hundred subscribers to it.
Uh but user acquisition has been slow going.
And I guess one thing that we didn't think a lot about
Which is the whole point of the app, actually, is that
You need two people committed to take the my love, your love journey.
Yeah.
And so my question is, how do we find our couples?
And uh drive up user acquisition, our committed couples that want to work on their relationship. Because each couple has to every user pays the monthly or or the yearly fee, right? Yes, but to be clear, when I say fifty four uh hundred and eight dollars
Per year it's fifty four dollars each.
Or at seventeen ninety eight, it's eight dollars ninety nine each. So
We like to advertise the total price per couple so people don't get a shock with that.
Right.
All right, Leah Sullivan, I'm gonna bring you in here. Um
Before we answer Sean's question.
Any questions for for him?
I have so many questions, Sean. You are doing such important work. I love it.
I it feels like the real question is
How do you get people to take their vitamins every day?
Right. It's like it's like all about prevention and
healthy relationships, I mean
In technology we always talk about okay, is this product a vitamin?
Or is it a painkiller?
And you've got a vitamin here. So we gotta think about how do you sell vitamins, right?
Absolutely. Are you
Tide.
Two
Making
Both couples sign up.
At once.
At the moment, yes, it's the way the app works, but I can tell you
We did get people saying
How do I get access to this information if my partner's not ready? Yeah. So I'm very excited to announce what we did in response to this after we're exhausted finishing the app is we wrote a book. Oh. And the book's called The Eight Love Links.
So that's gonna be out.
Any day now.
Okay. And people can take the solo journey.
And the book
is a standalone product, but it does mention the app.
It says in parts.
When you're ready, you can take the practical application.
With your partner.
That's great. That's so exciting. I love that.
Yeah, so I think if if there are other ways to soften the onboarding, because you're immediately shrinking your market.
Down to
Couples, two people who are willing.
to both onboard at the same time. So just it's gonna be a smaller market from the beginning.
Absolutely. So thinking through can I soften this? Are there ways to onboard? Are there interactions
that become the on ramp.
to both couples. I would think through that a little bit more from an app standpoint.
You know, I I would think about
Where are the couples, but where are they happy and where are they already doing some of this work?
Are there couple's retreats?
Are there travel, hotels, resorts, something that you could kind of partner with to, you know?
offer this as part of their check-in process or part of their package, you know, or something. And so I would just think about, okay, where are the couples right now?
Today, at this moment.
you know, that would use this, uh, they're they're probably not in therapy, right? Because they're already they're already feeling the painkillers. They're needing the painkillers. You need to sell the vitamins.
Absolutely. So would you recommend, for example,
That we try and get in front of these couples and like maybe give them some free like a free workshop. Yeah, I mean and then mention the add something to that sort of extent. Okay, that sounds like a great idea.
Yeah. And then and then the other question I have.
Sean. Uh f Leah and Sean, I mean
You know
Obviously for couples therapy to work, you need both partners.
Willing to do it.
I think in a lot of cases, Sean, and and you probably experienced this
It's one partner who who really kind of drags the other partner in.

is often kicking and screaming or, you know, just not interested in
But uh but it you know, it can be really beneficial. So I wonder whether
There's a world where, you know, uh going back to Leah's analogy of of the painkiller versus the vitamin, where this is a painkiller, where essentially you are
pushing this towards peop to to people who are struggling and are looking for ways to resolve
you know, their the the crises in their relationship. And and it may not be that you have to
look for the couple, but you just have to look for the one person.
First.
You know, I've gotta say guy like that.
Definitely
parallels what we see in therapy. Now don't get me wrong, I always say when we have two
Invested parties, we're gonna get the best results.
However.
Often there's an over somebody who over functions a bit for the relationship.
That brings a couple in.
And we still do get amazing results. So I think that's a really good idea. We just need to
really connect with that one person.
who will then kind of like be the encourager for the for the couple.
I would also think about along those lines
Are there certain I think you called them interventions or
Or interactions or certain modules.
That
Could entice it.
The other
person in the relationship and
Can you, you know, give that
the the other person who's kind of dragging the other one along some tools. Can you empower them through these interventions to kind of bring in
the other person in the relationship.
Uh Leah, do you mean through the app, like get them on the app first and then give them the strategies to do that? Yes.
You know, I've never thought about that, but that is a really fantastic
idea for us to think about.
Because we do get like we get registrations and we have reached out to people who have registered but not gone on to use the app.
And sometimes the feedback is m you know, my part I'm I'm looking, I'm not sure my partner's ready.
So that's a really good idea. Yeah, just t just offer them maybe one module or one intervention and just say, Hey, could you just try this one?
One interaction through that.
Yeah, great.
I don't think that would be too hard. I think actually I I haven't thought about it in this sense, but we could do like an extra module.
That is just for each partner to do on their own. And even if they both connect.
uh at the same time they can work through the introductory model.
first and we can kind of really talk about
Some tips and and insights to
To really try and get both people invested.
Right.
And are you and y you mentioned like um
uh doing like sort of seminars and talking to people and giving them the opportunity to use this for free, which I think is is an interesting and and smart way to go about it.
And I'm looking at your your website here, your landing page, and I see you've you've got some press coverage. I mean, you've got coverage certainly not on Australia and on podcasts and
the Times, I don't know if that's that's from the UK or from from Australia.
Um
And are you finding those I mean have those generated
interest at I mean at the very least, or or or users.
Yeah, absolutely. I think when we've had good press, we we get a spike in registrations and users.
One thing I'm really delighted to say
Is between 70 and 75% of all people who do the free trial. I don't know if I mentioned that actually, you get a seven day free trial before you get charged.
Um, seventy to seventy five percent of those people go on to subscribe to the app.
So I think the thing with media is it it is hard to get and some of the
Unfortunately, I think we went to market a little bit too early.
Some of the great media we got.
The app was not in its current form. We've had many iterations of the app, in fact
We totally redesigned it and changed it for user experience. It's been in this best form.
Probably since about March of this year.
Uh but we
With the book, we are hoping to generate more publicity around the book and then secondary publicity for the app as well.
Well the book is a great
excuse too to take it on the road, right? Do a book tour, get on the road, do some seminars that are connected to the book, and that seems like an awesome opportunity.
Yeah, absolutely. For sure.
Uh the product is called My Love, Your Love. It's an app, Sean Sereckley. Um thanks so much. Good luck.
Thank you both for having me. I am a big fan of the show also, and it's been an absolute delight. I feel very privileged. Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, I mean.
I mean, yeah, it seems like a great right,'cause couple therapy's got I mean, I I we've had Esther Perrell on my on my other shows in the past and I always think of Esther when I think of couple therapy because she of course you love her.
She's like the the oh you know, sort of the the guru of it, you know, probably the best known couples therapist in the world. I mean, that's ki it's cool. It's a cool idea, right? Because a lot of it's expensive for people to go and pay for any kind of therapy.
It is. No, it's a great idea. I mean
It's um
It like I said, it's really important work. I mean, how good are you though at taking your vitamins every day?
Well you must know I'm pretty good at it. I do take a m yeah, I'm pretty good at it. But but I but I hate to say that. No, I sound self righteous, but I have them
See here's here's my secret. I have them next to the coffee machine. Yeah. And and it drives my wife crazy. Maybe we should go use this app. It drives her crazy because she's like
People come into our house they see your vitamins all sp
laid on the d on the shelf next to the car and I and what I say, she's Can you hide them? And I said, If I hide them, I will not remember to take them. I will literally forget. Like that's how my brain works. So I love that. So yeah.
That's the point. It's like you've gotta have a routine, right? It's gotta have routine. It's good. It's gotta be a just it's like a a a Pavlovian response. I don't even think about it. I just I make my coffee, I've got my vitamins, they put'em down, I take'em. I'm gonna try this tomorrow. Yeah, it's a way to go. Yeah.
I wish I could do that with everything, like with meditation,'cause I forget to do it. Yes. Or stretching. When I stretch every night, it's great. Maybe I should put my stretching next to the coffee machine. Coffee machine. Coffee machine. That's the answer. That's the answer, you know. All right.
Stay with us because after the break, we'll talk to another founder working to take their business to the next level.
I'm Guy Roz and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab.
Mm.
Hey welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab.
I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking calls with Leah Sollivan, the founder of the company TaskRabbit.
So Leah, let's bring in our last collar. Let's do it.
Hello, uh caller, welcome to the advice line here on how I built this. Please introduce yourself and uh tell us a little bit about your business.
My name is Alan Ward and I'm calling from Honolulu, Hawaii.
Nice. I'm the co-founder of Dynabody.
Dynabuddy is a streaming service that helps kids learn to play music.
Our goal is to give more people access to high quality music education.
At an affordable price.
Amazing. Okay, well first of all
Mahalo. Yeah. So good to have you here.
Alan, thanks for calling in. Um I wish I was there. You know, I'm in California, so it's not too bad. So um all right, so tell me a little bit about Dina Buddy. It is a
It's an online platform that teach kids how to play instruments. Correct. Yeah, so it's a streaming service. So online play play along videos.
Yeah. And the videos are carefully sequenced.
Uh to teach kids from day one.
Who may have never held an instrument.
Like how to play.
And we'll work them through about
with the equivalent of the first two years of band instruction.
Uh, my wife helped me design it. She's a musician too, and
And we
um carefully set up our scope and sequence our whole curriculum to align with national standards. And we have videos and curriculum
for all standard band instruments, so all of the woodwinds, the brass, and percussion instruments.
that kids may ch typically learn in public schools. Got it. Okay. So this is so these are streaming videos. It's called Dina Buddy because it's they're dinosaur characters that
Teach kids how to do these things?
Dinabody.
Yes, you got it. The name of the company is a play on words.
And so we
We wanted to take the word dynamic.
D Y N A.
Uh which is a musical term.
and like fuse that with dinosaur to sort of imply music friend.
And my my cousin was the graphic designer for this.
And he described the whole project as sort of a Trojan horse for music education.
Where
The kids are just having a fun time doing this thing.
And they walk away being able to play and understand music a whole lot more.
Got it. Okay. So um and tell tell me what um what your question is for us. Yeah. So Guy and Leah, from your perspective
How can we recruit
early adopters and find our ideal product market fit.
All right.
Okay.
Lots to unpack here. Um, Leah, questions uh for Alan?
Alan uh
Tell us a little bit more about
The specific
Target age group.
That this is best for? Yeah.
So ideally the target age range is, you know, about the fourth to sixth grader and would support them
currently what we have up would support them for about two years and
We have our curriculum map to
uh support students all the way through the end of high school.
Okay, got it. And
You know, it seems like uh the
the idea in the strategy and sort of the go to market plan has been through
The school
system.
Is that correct? Are you really tied to that as the strategy?
That was the original idea. And
Um
One thing I've been paying attention to is the rapidly changing educational demographics in our country.
And
Uh, especially the
the prevalence of home schools, micro schools, charter schools, and
increasing number of families that are looking for alternatives to the public school experience.
And so yeah, I'm not tied to the public schools.
as as our uh market.
Yeah. I mean I I think that's good to hear just because I do think that
You know, from a
from a venture investor standpoint, which is where my brain works, um, you know, the the industry is so fragmented, uh, it's slow.
It's underfunded, uh, and there's not a lot of room
you know, to innovate. Um, and so I think thinking through
You know, other strategies of getting dinobody
into the right audience, into, you know, that that early adopters, as you said, that's really gonna
grasp what you're what you're doing here and and take it and run with it. Um, I think is what you want.
I mean, one idea I have for you, Alan, is
Have you thought about there are a lot of
I think music teachers or people that are passionate about teaching music to kids, you know, I just wonder if there are
ambassadors or people that could utilize this as part of their curriculum and kind of helping to streamline
you know, what they're what they're teaching and how they're teaching it and can you make this kind of a a standard um for music teachers who wanna wanna help kids at that at that age.
That is a phenomenal idea and something we've thought of and I'm trying to actively set up at the moment.
I have been doing
Clinics in local public schools.
and um would love to get this into a teacher training program.
Say for example at a you know university
Where they're sending out the next generation of music teachers.
And those
uh those people are much more open to new ideas usually than established teachers on the ground.
And we see that as a huge opportunity.
One of the things, Alan, that you probably have come come across, and I know that you have
been kind of seeing if you could c connect with homeschoolers, a lot more kids being homeschooled, which is a really interesting phenomenon and market, and and I have a
a kids' media company, we make kids podcasts and um and and other k kids' books science around science, and we've a lot of homeschooled kids who listen to Wow in the World or or read our books.
But the challenge, as I'm sure you've
you faced is is schools. It's really hard to get anything into schools. There's a
big bureaucracies and they're also strapped, you know, they just don't have the budgets.
But one one thing that that has been successful for us at Tinkercast, we have a a an online platform that teaches kids um, you know, critical thinking skills using our our our audio podcasts.
is we basically every time
Somebody
Buy.
uh the you know a a a membership we gift one to a classroom.
So, you know, we're giving it away.
but we're also encouraging people to use it and with the hopes that some of the kids might come home and say, we can we get this too.
And so there's
There there's an opportunity here, I think, for you to create a a way and and certainly starting it in Honolulu, where you're based, but trying to expand it from there.
Where
Buy a membership.
And then you will gift one to a classroom, or that they can gift one to a classroom. Like I I think that you might want to experiment with these.
these kinds of tears because what you really want to do is get it in and I know you're you're doing this.
But you really need to get it in front of as many eyes as possible, and you won't be able to go all over the country to do that. You need it to
Growth
without you being there. And so one of the ways to to do that I think is to try this gifting
subscription model.
Love that idea.
Yeah, and the way you have that structure.
is the person who's purchasing the product and then electing to give the gift.
Are they choosing where the gift goes or is that an internal decision?
We usually give them to like title one schools.
a around the country, you know, where uh kids don't have access to the same kinds of resources. So
You know, that's one uh approach. You c you can decide how you wanna do it. You know, maybe maybe you it's for homeschoolers. Whatever however you decide it.
To do it.
you can create a mechanism where
uh kids get exposed to this. I mean, look
We know
There's so much research behind this. And I'd love to see you you you push this a little bit more on your website, because your website's nice, but it's it's very simple. And I understand that you probably are limited in your budget, but there are things you can do even on a limited budget to get that message across, which is to say,
Parents and Leah, I think you can
attest to this. We're we're interested in enhancing our kids' brains.
Right. Yes.
Uh whether it's keeping them away from screens or
you know, exposing them to d different activities and music is like
number one at the top of that list. You get kids playing an instrument, and I'm sorry my kids just I couldn't get them to keep pricing piano.
But
Uh you know, you you get them doing that.
it it switches something on in their brains early in their lives and
That's
That's also something I'd love to see more of on your
On your website.
I agree with that too. Um, and I think to Guy's point
Just the home page of your website too, making that
more geared to
parents or who the decision maker is going to be.
Right, um because it's it looks super fun.
for the kids, which is awesome. Um, but as a parent
I want to come here.
And I wanna be compelled to oh yeah.
I'm I'm gonna get my little guy signed up for this because it's gonna have X, Y, and Z benefits and look how fun and easy this is gonna be. So I would think a little bit more too about who the decision maker is, who is the buyer, and kind of
reposition the brand and the the the ask.
To those people.
That makes complete sense. Yes. Originally we had designed things to make it fun and appealing for the young ones, and yeah, I as the more I've uh thought about it and
gone through things and realize I'm I'm really just speaking to the parents and need to message towards that. But but yeah, I
I I hear what you're saying and
Agree with it and uh
We'll follow through with those uh changes.
Alan Ward, Dina Buddy
Thanks so much for calling and good luck, man.
Thank you so much. Been a huge fan of the show, listening for years. Thank you. Thank you.
Well Leah, did you uh get your kids to any of your kids instruments?
You know, the the middle guy right now, he's just really we started with piano. Yeah. Now he's into
Uh
A guitar
You know, anything Yeah. Percussion. Yeah. Some kids just get they j you know, I do another show called The Great Creators and I interview a lot of musicians and it doesn't matter who it is, Jeff Tweety or
you know, or or Bjork or any of these people that been on the show. Yeah. They all just something in their brains clicked when they were little.
Yeah. And they just wanted to play instruments. And and I think they're
There's some kids who are forced to do it and then eventually they just like
you know, surrender and they're like, I actually like this, you know. Right. Um and then there's some kids who just it's
It's
punishing, you know, but our kids were good at piano.
We just
the p pandemic happened and then like they would try to online piano and it just causes kinda fizzled away. So I failed.
Failed as apparently. Well, I'm sure you're succeeding in many other ways, guy. I'm not worried about it.
Mm.
Oh well. All right. Well Leah
Hopefully.
Hopefully we can check back in in a couple of years with some of these
Folks and they'll be like Yeah, that was it.
That that that advice turned it around.
I would love that. I would love to see it. I think
All of these companies are doing
Something so unique and really special. So it was really fun to talk with him.

W when you think about what you wish you knew or what you might have told yourself early on in two thousand eight, that you know, like knowing what you know now with all your experience and I mean just you know, you've s you've you've sort of seen hundreds of companies now as an investor.
What do you what would you
Advised yourself or told yourself back then.
Yeah, I mean I think it really is, and we saw this today with all of these founders and companies. It's about focus and prioritization. I think
As a founder, you have so many ideas, you see all the possibilities, and really you have to pitch all of those possibilities to kind of
bring people in and inspire them and get the company off the ground. But when it comes down to execution and customer acquisition, you've really got to be focused. You've got to create that wedge in the market and you've got to understand
You gotta build brick by brick, baby steps, you know, to get to that full North Star vision.
Yeah, totally totally agree. Leah Sullivan, founder of TaskRabbit
Thank you so much for coming back onto the show.
Thanks so much for having me, guy. It was a lot of fun.
And by the way, if you guys haven't heard Leah's original how I built this episode, you have to go back and check it out. You can find a link to it in the podcast description. But here's one of my favorite moments from that interview.
So we're scaling up.
Енсу реалізін да прода.
Now in twenty eleven
Is it's just not working. It's just not working.
And at this point
There are competitors coming out.
That are launching mobile first.
Mobile only.
And we've been on the web.
I mean honestly it's like the the entire consumer market and expectation just
changed underneath us and we missed it.
Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app so you never miss a new episode of the show. And if you're interested in insights, ideas, and lessons from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs, sign up for my newsletter at guyroz.com or on Substack.
And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us about your business, the issues, or questions you'd like help with.
and hopefully we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you.
You can send us a voice memo at HIBT at ID.wonder.com or call us at one eight hundred.
433-1298, and leave a message there, and we'll put all this in the podcast description as well.
This episode was produced by Carrie Thompson with music composed by Ramtina Rablui. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Chris Massini, Carla Esteves, Elaine Coates, JC Howard,
Catherine Seifer, Devin Schwartz, Neva Grant, and Sam Paulson.
I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.