555: The Nature Of Man Is War

0:00 This is Jonko Podcast number five fifty five with Echo Charles and me, Jonko Willing. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. The worn body of the brave. Always finds a reserve. The rapture of service is too strong for the body, however spent. To refuse its duty.

0:17 And that right there is a quote from a book called Maxims on War. It's written by a guy. Named Renee Quinton. And you're gonna find and we were discussing before he hit record that some of his opinions on war And human nature are

0:33 Extreme. Some of them are Some of them are very extreme. We may even go so far as to say they're too extreme. Mm. But

0:42 As I read through this book. There's a lot of Elemental truth. That these Statements are rooted in.

0:51 Uh this guy He was A Frenchman. He was born in eighteen sixty six. And his father was a doctor and and a like a local mayor and he's pretty wealthy.

1:01 And his mom was, you know, a homemaker. And he grew up He was very into writing. So he wrote.

1:10 And books and stuff like this. And he tried to pursue writing. I think he was kinda Quite frankly, I think he was what in modern day we would call him a trust fund baby. You familiar with this term? Of course, yes, sir. So he was like a trust fund kid and he tried to pursue writing. For like a decade.

1:27 And and I don't think he he never finished A project. He would just like write and start and whatever. And Then he decided, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna pursue something else and he became a biol uh he went into biology.

1:40 And he studied, you know. Marine life. This Potion. And it's you can still get it, by the way.

1:48 It's called serum. De Quinton. Like means like Quentin's serum. And it's some kinda Saline solution. He made it from seawater initially and

1:59 and it's supposed to help with the whole plethora of of of diseases and ailments and whatnot. Eventually he became interested in aviation as well. He was in which meant interestingly, like around the turn of the century that means he meant he was into like ballooning. You know? Yeah, like balloons. That was aviation back in the day. Okay. So he did some of that, but then he was pro

2:21 kinda real planes too once those things started rolling out. And then the war broke out. The first world war. And despite Not

2:30 Being Required. which was forty eight years old in nineteen fourteen. He joined.

2:39 He joined up. So he's forty eight years old. He's had this kind of strange life. And he joins up and he just goes goes to war. World War One. uh fought in just battle after battle after battle.

2:53 All over France. Champagne, uh Trigney, reams like the list of battles that he was in. is ridiculous. He's wounded seven times. He ha and on top of that, he suffered severe frostbite to his feet. Uh he was highly decorated. He was highly decorated by France.

3:12 His native country. He was also you know, he also received uh Distinguished Service Cross from both America and the United King Kingdom and he was highly decorated by Belgium as well. So The guy definitely got after it. And

3:29 After the war. He finally sat down and started writing. what he had learned at war. And the that project.

3:38 Which he came close to finishing. I said he never finished a project as a as a When he was a writer. And Unfortunately he didn't finish this project either.

3:49 He was editing it and he was writing it and drafting it and whatever, and he died. Yeah. But before that he's like the first part of this book is the mo the most heavily edited, so the furthest along the process. And this book here.

4:05 Which is uh released by Perth Imperium Press. That's the name of it. So That's who made it. It's edited. And they put they did a good job putting together And we're gonna look at the

4:18 We'll look at some of them today. I think this might take us a little bit of time. So Very interesting. In some cases, like I said, very extreme maxims, but again, I think a lot of them are rooted in Some level.

4:32 Of truth. So Let's get into it. Starts off. Men may dream that they do not love war.

4:43 But nature loves struggle and death. That's where we're going out of the gate. Okay. Now Again, as you and I talked about a little bit before.

4:51 The We hit record. Mm. And you Pushed back a little bit against this concept. And I just threw at you like why are there so many movies about war? Books about war, movies about war.

5:03 Videos about war. It's war all over the place. So why is that? You know, it's it's y what if people don't I hate to use the word love, but if there's not some deep part of a person's brain that doesn't want to watch war. Why do we why do we why does twenty war movies come out a year.

5:20 And by the way. It's not just historical war, it's aliens war. It's All kinds of war. Mafia war, gang war. It's just war. Infinity War. Infinity War? What's that? I think it's one of the Avengers.

5:35 So It's a good point. That's the opening, by the way. Men may dream That they do not love war. But nature loves struggle and death. Next, it is in the it is in the bloom and fullness of their age.

5:48 Nature dedicates males to deaf. Yeah. W which is why you get why is why is uh the insurance rates For An eighteen year old boy.

6:02 very high for a vehicle. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. He is dedicated to death. Like that's what he's doing. He's pushing the envelope. Nature creates species, it does not create beings.

6:17 The species is the end. The being is only the servant of that end. It is the nature of the individual to be deluded about his destiny and to believe he was born for himself. So he's saying your whole purpose is not for you. It's for the species.

6:37 Mm-hmm. He says man places. This is like he's got a bunch of footnotes. The footnote for this one is Man places value on us on his existence. Nature does not. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Facts. Yeah.

6:49 Nature doesn't care. You you You got all this big life, you got all these things and all this stuff. You just get Eaten by a bear. The bear literally does not care at all about you. He's just like food.

7:02 Do you think when you eat a chicken nugget? You know? You're a chicken nugget to a bear. I did. Like you don't think about the impact of the soul when you're eating a chicken nugget. A bear is just Crunch in your head doesn't care. No thought whatsoever about anything. Your wife, your kids, your future, your mortgage, your house, the little dreams you had of videos you were gonna make.

7:26 Like what you did, your memories, it's all just chicken nugget, boom, gone. I understand, yeah. Only heroes suspect they were not born for themselves. Fact. Yeah.

7:44 War does not transform men. It returns them to their native purpose. War is the natural state of males. Now you seem to have a little bit of pushback before you hit record on this Yeah.

7:58 idea. I still do and uh'cause I don't want to interrupt like this. Interrupt you know? Interrupts. The Titan of facts over here. The Titan of Talk. Eight minutes of this, so I can't be like Wr that's not well, there's more to it than that, you know, kind of a thing. So yeah, I get it. And keep in mind too I suspect. I suspect. I'm not saying I'm not proclaiming this, but I suspect That his whole experience caused this little bit of bias. for the outcome of this book. So he put himself in a very specific environment.

8:29 And that environment's like very intense, very exclusive too, by the way. So he's coming up with all these, you know, conclusions and stuff based on this very exclusive environment over time. True. So I'm not saying Or disagreeing with that that there's a lot of truth to that. I think that There's like You know how y you know your little terrarium.

8:48 Speech that you give me in Others from time to time. Terrarium. Yeah. Terrarium. Aquarium. Terrerium. Fish tank. Whatever. And he's like, bro, this is this is it. This is what's going on in here. Meanwhile, there's like one, two, three more. terrariums next to'em.

9:05 By the way, but he's just not looking'cause he's not in that terrarium. See I'm saying? So he drew all these c this what it sounds like so far. Okay. He drew all these conclusions in his very specific one. Meanwhile there's these other ones driving the whole bigger picture, you see I'm saying, that that kinda compliment it and stuff like that. That's what it feels like. I thought where you were gonna go with this idea was that this dude had kinda tried some other stuff, tried to be a writer, tried to make this s this serum, you know, kind of tried to get to the peak of these other things and it didn't really happen. So then at forty eight, it's like War happens. And now all of a sudden and he's gonna talk about this stuff all now's like nothing else matters. Mm-hmm'cause we're out here.

9:42 Yeah. And and so this seems like the peak thing. Now let's say he'd have been a Nobel Prize scientist who had discovered in this serum that he made was you know world renowned and saved all these people, maybe he wouldn't feel the same way. Yeah. But I kinda think he's saying Yes I would. Yeah, and I understand. And he and then but and keep in mind too, like when I talk about this bias, like he's gonna He's gonna go in this war.

10:07 Environment. And Not only is he gonna think that's the whole world, he's gonna draw like Analogies. To everything.

10:16 mapping back to war. So he's gonna call everything war. When you could do that with construction as well. Like building something. No good. Yeah. There's a lot of things you could be like, Well, isn't that just another way of saying building. You gotta throw away the scraps When you're building otherwise you can't build it. You see what I'm saying? You can you can make a metaphor, but it's not gonna be it's not gonna be a one to one metaphor. Yeah, yeah, and that's that's kinda my point where if you're in a wartime environment, you can make metaphors War can be a metaphor. Everyone's comparing everything to war all the time. Yeah, yeah. But they have to compare it to war, but it's not war. Right. We all know that. That's what I'm saying.

10:52 That's what he's saying. Okay. Not war. Okay. Like all the other stuff, the building, the whatever, doesn't matter. Yeah.

11:01 All right. Next, as much as man dreads death in the calm hours of life. So too does he naturally accept it in the midst of struggle. Being all afraid of d dying, and then you get in war, you're like, Well, it's gonna happen. Could happen. I'm I'm down with it. Ready.

11:18 In the universe, the service of the species imposes on females the burdens of risk. The burdens and risks of maternity. It imposes on males of the same blood, fratricidal struggle, combat amongst themselves, death if need be. What instinct commands the animal accepts by nature. Males are made to die.

11:41 Or at least to accept the risks of death in battle. As I said, this guy goes hard. Mm-hmm. This guy goes hard. And

11:53 When I say there's a Some You know. uh morsel of truth in there. I I can see this morsel of truth.

12:03 Yeah, and again, I do too, but even that what he just said there, it's kinda like He's like men are made to die. Or at least Willing to accept the risk. Those two completely different things. So yeah, I don't know. Like I said, this is just the beginning. So I don't know. I'll give you time to process it.

12:20 Um Nature does not will fertilization. It wills essential fertilization. The primary mission of males is not to reproduce, but to kill one another. Across the living world. Their slaughters precede love. The female propagates the species, the male, through his death, selects it.

12:38 Nature which reaps the benefits creates males to destroy one another. She grants them both the taste for it and the strength to risk it. And by she he's talking about nature. So That's what we're doing. And isn't it crazy, you know, that we're supposed to be this enlightened, you know, educated Species now with With thought.

12:59 And logic and right now as we're talking, there's people just slaughtering each other out in the battlefield. Yeah. So it it's kind of uh well. You know, maybe in your coffee shop or whatever, you're sitting there going, Oh, this war just doesn't make sense. And meanwhile

13:16 Some dude over in Ukraine is just like getting ready to freaking charge a trench. For the fourteenth time in two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Again, and not to I don't wanna keep us here on the first chapter, whatever. First page. Let's go.

13:29 But I think where maybe we might fundamentally disagree at this time. Me and Renee here. Okay. is He's he's focusing on the war part of it and saying that's everything. And I say and I actually told you this before, where I think

13:44 If you wanna break it down to the fundamental building blocks, at the very least there's Two, there's like a balance between collaboration in competition. So he's talking about just the competition part. You have all competition, everybody kills each other and everybody dies. You gotta collaborate if if you wanna you see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, but in a lot in most cases you're just collaborating so you can kill other dudes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ultimately. But still that collaboration exists alongside what I'm saying. But only to further your war efforts.

14:12 Or you further your war efforts just for greater collaboration. Mm. I think yes. Of course you're gonna say no, I understand. That's what I'm saying. I don't wanna keep us in the first base. But This is where we get you know we start getting more extreme. The male who dies serves the species by leaving

14:32 to others. the task of propagating it. Nature denies males the right to reproduce, races the right to endure. This right, males and races must win it through struggle. The first duty nature lays upon them. Is not to live.

14:49 But to triumph or die. Going hard in the paint. Yep, I agree with that. The burden of dying is as natural to the male as the burden of bearing is to the female. The destiny of males is to stake their lives in the service of the species. Every male carries within him the calling to die. And his footnote here is nature does not love males. Within every species, males are tasked with destroying one another for the salvation of the species.

15:24 Like that's what you're gonna do. Mm-hmm. And y you know, when you take I think a lot of the stuff that you're You're seeing, you're picturing with like the veneer of society on it.

15:35 Uh meaning, Oh, we're gonna collaborate'cause we're trying to build something. No no And when that veneer goes away it's like Yeah, I'm gonna beat you to death with a club. I mean, yeah, half the time. Half the time that's true. The other half is like no no no, let me team up with this'cause like even if you're fighting, you're fighting for something. See what I'm saying? So it's not like oh yeah, we're just gonna fight for no reason because we're meant to fight and die. Like it No that starts. That is what he's saying. I know that's what he's saying. That's why exactly right. So so like Even And again, I don't know. I could be wrong at this time, but

16:07 Think about even just the male. Uh. Psyche, let's say you come across another man, and actually you too, the more you know, leader of men, Jocko, hell yeah, freaking war all day, you know, if required, kind of a thing. When you see another person that's within the realm of yourself, even a little bit, age, physicality, you know, whatever. An evaluation goes on in your mind. Just maybe even subconsciously, but I would imagine consciously. Consciously. Right. And it's either

16:33 Like is this a friend or a foe? So by the way. That stuff is all. That stuff is all primal. Yeah. It's part of your limbic system. Perfect. When you look at someone You're you're judging you look at the narrowness of their eyes, you look at the broadness of their jaws, you look at their their weight, their height, like you assess all that stuff. In your limpic system, w is this human uh is this other human a threat or not?

16:54 So this is going on, this is so deep in your in your being you sometimes don't even recognize it. Now what happens is if you're a fighter It it bubbles to the surface more. Because you spend so much time in combat in hand to hand combat with your with your teammates and your friends that when you see s an outsider, which by the way is also another part that your limbic system judges, like is this person part of my crew or not?

17:18 Yeah. If they're not part of my crew, I know it. I know it by looking at someone this this person's not like us. They're an outsider. Right. This is all that stuff is all happening. Whether you want it to happen or not, it's happening. Yeah, that's and that's my point. Now hopefully, logically You can go, look, I meet this guy

17:34 I look I think I can take him or I think he can take me, but instead of like aggressively trying to confront him To your point, let's see maybe we can collaborate. Mm-hmm. But that's all an override of logic. And there's a decent chance that logic does not override and I'm just fighting you.

17:50 Yeah. So and I I get that, but I think as far as the the initial val Evaluation. It's a friend or foe evaluation. And

17:59 The friend part of it. Is part of it too. And that's what I'm saying. I'm not denying any of this stuff. I think I just think there's another side that comes with it. That's all I'm saying. Yes. So when he's like you're meant to die, it's like Bri know, maybe. That's why I would I would lean more towards the risk thing. Again, you put the veneer Well he said or He said meant to die or the risk. But also when you put the veneer of society. Yeah. And like

18:21 You know. W when you have a car and you have a wife and you've got kids and you got a house, like and you got a job, like all this stuff is just each one of those little layers just just buries it a little bit deeper. But if we're gonna say We have to recognize that it's there. Yeah. That's there. Okay. And that is what I'm saying. I do recognize that it's there. Okay. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying, but there's that other part. Otherwise this society wouldn't even exist as a whole. It's the basically society is one of the many symptoms of this other side that exists, which is the collaboration side. So if you're saying and not you, but if he's saying war is fundamentally it That would be the front running result. You see I'm saying just freaking destruction. Like m man would not would build less than he destroys. You see I'm saying and if the societal

19:06 Part. Had Even the slightest bit of power over

19:12 This animalistic Instinct. we wouldn't just be in constant state of war for the past thirty thousand years. Like I said, they go hand in hand. I'm telling you, like again, I'm not denying that I think this is it. Yeah, hell yeah, all day. But I'm saying There's another side to it that comes with it, is what I'm saying.

19:30 The fundamental point that you're making Is that there's There is a surface veneer overpainted all over this stuff, which I totally agree with you. There is. That's what we live in. We live in the veneer. Right. We live in the nice stuff, right?

19:42 But beneath it all is just like I'm getting ready to beat you to death with a club. Yeah, that's half of it. It's not even half. Depending on who I am. Because if I You know, I'm probably I'm closer to beating you to death with a club.

19:58 than some guy that works, you know in finance Who you know what I mean? Like he just doesn't he hasn't a had the opportunity to express and he has buried those instincts deeper. Yeah. With more With more fluff, right?

20:14 Yeah. Whereas like And then you go to someone that's a uh You know, someone that's an active duty Marine. Well he's a little bit closer and then you go to somebody that's like in combat, well he's there.

20:26 And then you go to somebody that's y you go right on down the line. So we have people that are at various depths And this animalistic nature is being brought to the surface more. Yeah. Depending on who you are and what you're doing. Yeah. But you've got to keep that in mind.

20:41 Yes, keep it in mind. Continuing on, death is well born in war. In the hour of combat, natural man scorns life. He is no longer his end. Or sorry, it is no longer his end. He ceases to be its champion and becomes the champ of the species. This is like you're sacrificing

21:01 yourself for the species. War. is no defiance of nature. It is not against nature for the male to kill his fellow. It is not against nature for the male to be killed by his fellow. The law that governs relations between males within a single species is a law of murder and risk. War is a chapter of love.

21:28 Males of the same species are intoxicated by tearing each other apart. The intoxication of war is an intoxication of love. Again, why are we watching UFC? Why why can you go on uh and doom scroll just people getting in fights? And war scenes and people killing each other. Why is that? I wonder why that is.

21:50 Yeah. That's very strange, isn't it? Well, I don't think it's strange, but I think that that's part of that's one of the elements that people doom scroll. There's other things. And love, by the way. And so if our how about this zoom out a little bit. Mm-hmm. So yes, I agree with you that hell yeah. Like when two guys fight, everyone's gonna pause and watch for sure. You know? And the more freaking active. But we jump up and down and get and cheer. Oh hell yeah. But here, zoom out for to a bigger picture, too. Here's what we like. Just a little bit, one click, we'll zoom out. We like when two people have like beef and issues, right? They hate each other and we're like ooh, this is brewing up. We feel it. The entertainment starts right then. See what I'm saying? They didn't fight yet. They got beef for this reason or that reason. Some people identify with this guy because of this and the other guy because he's from here. Or whatever. You know, they're beefing. They hate each other. And it's just bubbling up until

22:40 The climax of the fight. Right. Boom boom they fight. Boom, it's hard fight. That's what we like, the hard fight. We don't need the anticlimactic freaking short fight. We want the The hard fight, right? They fight, they fight, they fight, one winner emerges. Right.

22:53 Gotta have the winner. Seems saying. And then after the fight They make up. Yeah. And they say, Man, I respect you and boom. We love that that that make up collaboration part, you see I'm saying we just love war. It may No no. But if you add the other elements alongside it, it's a greater satisfaction, is what I'm saying. It's a greater thing. Like we like that more, I think, collectively. I think. Yeah, we like war.

23:14 Yeah, but what I'm saying is yeah, I agree with that. But you add on those other parts of it. We like it even better. Yeah. See what I'm saying? Check. So if if war was the only thing, that other part would be neither here nor there. No, it wouldn't be neither here nor there. Maybe not quite as gratifying, but it would still be. No, I'm saying if we didn't love the other part of it. Yeah. If when it came, if if two guys you know, like I said, that whole scenario, whatever, that happens, by the way. If

23:41 That happened versus another scenario th you know, the next week or the next year or whatever, and they didn't make up and be friends or whatever afterwards, we'd still If that was less significant, we wouldn't care about that second one. You'd be like, Yeah, that's neither here nor there. That that that that collaboration part at the end. You see what I'm saying? But it's not like that.

23:59 We tend to like the whole story. We tend to, but it's not a critical Not a critical uh component. Yep. Mm-hmm. Egoism is the false reckoning.

24:10 War suddenly reminds men That they were not born for themselves. Ain't that the truth. Pacifism is an assault on honor.

24:20 Man has but one Man has but one majesty. the knowledge of how to die. Pacifism denies him this.

24:31 The force that drives men into the line of fire is one of the most powerful in the world. It surpasses even the force that drives them to love. There are few loves on earth for which one is willing to die. Love of country is one of them. He who is ne he who has never wished to die has never truly loved. Again, we're sometimes we're getting kind of extreme here. Mm.

24:56 It is not to reach summit that men climb mountains. The nearness of death is so sweet that in absence of war. Man invents games occasions to die. I I do agree with that, yes, sir. Yeah.

25:12 And You think about it, you know, when people like climb up Everest. Mm-hmm. If you're or whatever mountain. Like if you're doing that for the view. Mm. Right? Mm. Well

25:22 Just Send a drone up there with a GoPro attached to it. Yeah. If you're doing it for the physical exertion, we'll just go and jump on a treadmill and you know, go up the whatever stair climber and climb up w however far it is.

25:34 But you're only doing it. Kind of What you want to do is let's face it. You might die.

25:44 So you have to replace war. And look, there's levels to that too, right?'Cause we do Yeah, but We we want to go to war. Well

25:52 We can't do there's no war going on, so we're climb mountains, we're fighting, playing football, we're playing basketball, like we're competing, we're fighting. We wanna get in combat. And you know. I always say like if we're in a basketball game And you like foul me a little bit much, we might fight.

26:10 You know what I'm saying? Yep. Yeah, you re that's actually Very That's correct, I think too. That

26:19 When there's no war, like we look for he says death, but I'm like I'm like bro, he's probably more right than he knows'cause we look for other wars too. Like if and if there's no other wars over here, we're gonna look for'em over here. If they're not over there, it's like, bro, let me make one up real quick. Let's see how else I differ. From this other p person or group, you know? Doesn't matter. It can be the most peaceful freaking type. Don't matter. And you're just looking for that stuff. I get it. No species brings more frenzy to death than man. None purifies itself more nor kills its own more readily. Among animals only instincts clash. Among men.

26:57 It is ideas. A differing belief carries within it a summons to death. Every ideal is a pretext. For killing. I mean, you gotta just admit that's spot on.

27:11 Like we're the only We're the only group we're the only animal that's like, Wait, I don't like what you're what you're thinking. I'm gonna murder every w every one of your group. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean I think

27:25 I think it's kinda like a more sophisticated version of the animal. stuff. You know, like Most animals they'll they'll kill. another animal of any kind like either to Eat them, take their stuff, or defend their own.

27:39 Most of the time it's it's uh It's more of a of a fake fight. It's more of just a They don't kill each other. Like they they sometimes accidentally kill each other, or they sometimes kill each other'cause it gets it gets heated or whatever. But a lot of times, you know, if you're a a freaking elk and the Yeah, if I'm the smaller elk or the weaker elk and this other elk starts beating my ass, I just leave.

28:01 He doesn't he doesn't like chase me down and just kill me. Occasionally they get killed because they got freaking giant knives on their head that they're stabbing into each other. So occasionally, but like that's not their purpose. But but humans Be like, No, no, no, wait, you think different I will chase you down and kill you. Like we have to make special laws. You know what I mean? They're like, Hey, if the guy comes into your house, you can kill him. If they start running away, you can't kill him anymore. Cause a man will be like, Oh, you came into my house and now you're trying to get away from me. Cool, I'm going to walk down the street, find you and kill you. Yeah. And now we gotta say that's a more extreme uh law. We gotta put like that's you murdered, it's not manslaughter, you know, and like uh We gotta put special laws like crimes of passion.

28:40 Like w you know what I mean? Oh yeah. If if if you you know, if a guy catches his wife in bed with a guy And he kills them both on the spot. He will get less Yeah.

28:56 He leaves and he comes back a one hour later. And kills them both, he's going like the the first one is gonna be I think it's there's some there's It's not gonna be first degree murder. They might even get you can even get away with a damn manslaughter charge. Little aggravated That aggregate of manslaughter something like a lawyer. But I know it's a lesser charge. Like everybody knows that you just might lose your mind. Right. You know? And they kinda they kinda make uh some wiggle room for that. Right. But we have to have a law that says oh, you might calculate

29:28 a motherfucker down again. You know what I mean? Like we have to have to have to say that. Like, hey listen, if you go to that extreme, you can't do that. Whereas like an elk, like the other elk runs away, he's just like cool. Yeah, cool. I won the little scrap. No, a a human? Mm. Oh yeah.

29:42 Well y I'm gonna hunt you down, I'm gonna kill you. Mm-hmm. I'm I'm gonna come into your house at night and slit your throat. That's what I'm doing. Yeah. Um

29:50 Pleasures may fill the world, but it is ideas that govern it. Cool. Natands being to live beings to live only in order to serve. Service is the end. Living is merely the means. The instinct of self-preservation in the male is like caution in a troop advancing towards the enemy. It delivers him alive, on foot, and in position for combat, his final purpose as a being created to struggle and die. Again.

30:22 Extreme. Um The face of the male in combat is hideous. It breathes vice and commands the blow. The mail is horrific. to the mail.

30:41 He is that which must be exterminated. Take your own worst enemy. You you. You're oh. Your other species. This is where people f you know, uh pacifists are like, What are we doing?

30:55 Like wait, that's This is another human being. Okay. And you're gonna kill them. Like what is happening right now?

31:02 Isn't it funny how you uh not funny, but When you start to Like how groups will turn against each other. I remember we were off the coast of Somalia in the nineties and you know, there's a bunch of shit going on in Somalia at the time.

31:18 And the Somalis have the you know, they would try to give us the cultural brief on the Somalis. And one of the cultural briefs was they have this saying and it was like Me against my brother. My brother and I against my family. My family against my tribe, my tribe against Somalia, Somali against the world. So that's how they just break shit down.

31:36 And it but it's weird for like a pacifist is like, Wait a second, no no no. Your brother is also your tribe, is also your Somali is also the world. So Why are you trying to make war with, you know, these other people that are basically they you know, all humans are brothers. So what's happening? This is what a pacifist is can't even

31:58 Can't even relate. You know? They just can't even relate. You know how some people just don't When when when people Like culturally Are different. It's very difficult for them to even understand what's happening.

32:10 when um I was I think I was having a a talk with my daughter about fighting. And When someone doesn't know about Like grappling. They just don't even understand.

32:22 Like you could see like s say someone boxed. Let's say we went back thirty years right now, or forty years, right? Go back pre UFC and someone was a boxer. And you knew Jujitsu. Yeah. Like trying to explain to them.

32:34 that they should learn how to grapple would be it would be like, you know, it would make no sense whatsoever. Just make no sense. Just it was it'd be uh incomprehensible. You'd have to you'd have to like fight them and choke them. You couldn't verbally explain it to them. You'd have to show them it and it would even take them a long time To even realize then. that grappling is good. I I used to think the number was about four. Maybe three to four.

32:57 Submissions. Before someone even realizes Even believes that what you're doing is real. Yeah.

33:04 Back in the day before people knew Jiu Jitsu? I would grapple with someone. And I'd submit'em, right? Mm-hmm. And people didn't really know Jiu Jitsu, so you know you catch him in an arm Bar.

33:14 And they'd be like You know, the look of disbelief let's go again. Yeah. And she goes, Okay, cool. Guillotine.

33:22 And they still are just like, Wait, what you know, this doesn't make you know, you're whatever lucky thing just happened, it was not gonna happen again. And the Kimura. Mm. And then like and usually by the th third by the fo the the fourth time they're like, Okay. But the first

33:36 Two times it there's no belief whatsoever. Yeah. So thinking that you're going to convey to somebody how radically different the world is is very, very difficult. Yeah. Yeah, you're you're still right about that.

33:49 Yeah. If you um Let's say the grappling scenario, if you're if you walk'em through what you're doing to them in real time, then they'll start to grasp it. But it's kinda like. Yeah. Well here that's why I thought that the first three UFCs actually it was one, two, and four were the kind of the ones that I would watch all the time.

34:09 Is the announcer, one of the announcers was like new new grappling. I think he trained with like Horne and them. So he would kinda walk you through. It's like okay, he's gonna put him, you know, between his guard. He'd say that between his guard, or now he okay, he got him down, now he's gonna mount him and you know, this and that. And it's like bruh, this guy, even though I don't know what he's gonna do next. This guy does and he's walking us through it. So it doesn't look like just one big shuffle of anarchy and he winds up in this magical position that I happen to have my arm like bent or to happen to be, you know, choked or'cause that's what it feels like in real life if you're it is so weird. to think of what gr what jujutsu is from Um Place without knowledge. Yeah. It just must look like it. It feels like oh they locked out. And even if you if you remember like um

34:57 You know, when we're kids. In high school, I remember uh Like when you get on Mount, right? And it's really hard for someone to'cause they don't even know what Mount is. They just feel like you're on top of'em, you know? And then so you feel like, Oh shoot, I just wound up in this bad spot. out of bad luck. Yeah, yeah, let's get too. Yeah, yeah, let's do it again and whatever, and then boom, you're not again and it's like Okay, nah, maybe luck, you know. You know how it takes them a few times to understand all these you're doing this on purpose. Yeah. And that's so common. Like if you if you

35:27 I'm trying to remember who it w might have been Hens or I don't know, somebody where they were like okay, they got in a fight And they said uh The guy who we fought was like Let's go again. Yeah, I'm gonna show you uh what I'm gonna do with that sneak attack stuff, right? Like he called it sneak attack, even though

35:43 It's very calculated stuff. It's not just some, you know. So yeah, you're right. If you don't know the fundamental stuff, it just looks like one big kind of hodgepodge of nothingness and you wound up in this unfortunate bad luck situation. But meanwhile it's like no no no, this is a Calculated. And I'll tell you what's interesting from a leadership perspective. That's leadership too. And when people aren't thinking with the leadership principles.

36:06 They're just They're just ending up. They're like, Oh you know? And hopefully if you're leading correctly You know, you're you know, obviously you're trying to teach people leadership, you're trying to bring'em up, but when they're They're they're they're stumbling around and all of a sudden they're doing the thing that they should be doing. They're kinda like, Oh, you know, this is It makes sense, you know, or whatever. It's so true,'cause e even when you say

36:26 Oh yeah, they had good leader, you know, this real successful, I don't know, like even a t football team, right? Oh yeah, they had really good leadership. The head coach is so good, you know? And you're like, bro, what the hell's the head coach doing? What? Telling him good job. Like I don't get it. Like how his leadership affected how fast this guy runs, how good this guy can catch, how good this guy can throw, how good this guy can tackle and all this stuff. How does the head coach that he doesn't teach him that. But that's how you know, they're the ones doing this amazing stuff on the field and have that keep the coach is old guy. Just'cause what, he he was on a team deal, like I don't get it, you know?

36:59 But when you know how leadership works, you're like oh god, this is this mystery just revealed, you know, kind of a thing.'Cause yeah, we don't see leadership like that kinda intuitively, right? We just see a guy walking and everyone just sort of following it. It looks like Jujitsu to the untrained eye. So Check. Um Pleasures of the body, resentment, remorse.

37:20 The being knows it betrays. There is no bliss but of the soul and no laurels but of the species. And it says here as a footnote, every being possesses two souls, the soul of the body and the soul of the species. The soul of the body seeks only pleasure. The soul of the species issues the command to serve. He who does not serve knows he betrays. The body craves comfort, rest, delight. The species demands effort.

37:50 Hardness. Sacrifice. Come on, bro. It's all worthwhile. You know what I'm saying? Like think of that. That right there is just It it makes so much sense. Yeah.

38:04 You know, when when When you're looking out for yourself. People look out for themselves. And they bury that. That uh

38:12 That instinct to serve. And It's rough. comes out in other ways. Sometimes it comes out in good ways. They become very charitable, whatever. You know, when you see these uh billionaires give a bunch of money at the you know, before they die, they wanna donate all their money to all these causes and everything, they're trying to become saviors, they're trying to become they're trying to make up for the fact that they were just, you know, doing stuff for themselves. Yeah, yeah.

38:35 Yeah, that means they go on and give all this money away and Yeah, well guess what? The pursuit of happiness is is impious. Pleasures are lures, they are not ends.

38:50 So he's saying, you know. Yeah. MPS is like Without God. Mm. You know, so like

38:57 Pursuit of happiness is just not good. Pledges are lures. They're just lures. Yeah. Not ends. The people who love war are the male peoples.

39:09 Yeah. The male people. The male people. Yeah. Maternity is the natural state of woman, war is the natural state of males.

39:23 Mm. Guys going hard in the paint. The male who kills saves the world. And he says Nature im This is the footnote, Nature imposes

39:36 Guarantees. Upon duration. Races and males purchase the right to endure with their blood. The male who kills saved worlds. Saves the world. Philosophers may

39:53 Offer people the ideal of tranqu tranquil happiness, but tranquil happiness is not the only thing men desire. Yeah. Do you think this do you think this has anything to do with uh You ever heard of a midlife crisis? Yeah, yes and yes. I heard a mid lake. They pay to go to like a boot camp scenario. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

40:20 The the re the recreational boot camp scenario. Yeah, like a recreational boot camp scenario. Yeah. They're like Pay for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I was like, Oh, what are they missing? Yeah.

40:31 Are they missing'cause they were not They didn't they buried their warlike instinct. For their life. And then they get to be like thirty five years old and they're like

40:41 They feel They they wanna gratify that thing. They're too old to just freaking straight up join the army and go get some. Yeah. Yes. Could be, right?

40:51 Yeah, and it feels well, it feels like I don't know the all the ones I've seen. Because you don't see dudes that were in the army or in the marine corps signing up to go to one of those things. Right. Like that's not happening. Yeah. At least I I don't think it's happening. Yeah, I uh I don't think so either. It wouldn't make much sense to me as of right now, but I don't I don't know. I've never been to one, so I don't know what it entails fully. But the uh

41:11 It feels like the attraction is not just the the w war part of it. It's just, you know how like there're many benefits to the military. Than just being able to fight, you know, according In fact, a lot of people join the military like With no intention of fighting, you know, like there's benefits. Yeah, yeah, no, but I'm saying the

41:33 personal benefit. Oh, you're talking about structure, structure discipline, you challenge yourself, you come out more resilient in a lot of ways, stronger, mentally, physical like all this stuff or whatever, all like legitimate, legitimate benefits. And then when you kinda put'em together you c You how like the what are the sum of This is worth more than it's part or whatever. It's like you have that element as well, as far as like just personal development through life as a usually usually men go through these things, right? So think about this. I think they're trying to get that part of it.

42:06 out of these recreational We'll say boot camps. Yes, the whole like uh oh I'm gonna challenge myself and all the everything that you just listed is all Is all under the umbrella of being ready to freaking serve. You know what I'm saying? It's all like that's what we respect about those things. Right, right.

42:25 We don't watch the when we drive by like a You're driving down the road and you see in someone's window And you see a guy like just like eating a bag of Doritos and uh watching Netflix. Yeah, yeah, hell yeah. You you just You don't you don't respect that person, you have no you're not like damn, I wish I was doing that.

42:41 Right. And then you go by a guy's g open garage. Yeah. And he's freaking in there swinging a kettlebell. And he's playing freaking

42:50 Uh let's see what we should Mastodon? And you go, you go, okay. Like, dude, like you kinda want you're But you think like that guy's getting ready for war. Mm-hmm. Your your your animal instinct goes, That guy's getting ready for war. The guy that's on the couch is not getting ready for war. No.

43:07 And that's what I think is so when you go I want that. Yeah. And so when you see those like Uh uh A don't

43:13 Boot camp things. thinks that that's gonna get him ready for war. He's gonna scratch that itch that he has'cause he didn't just at freaking seventeen years old just sign the dotted line, let's Go. Yeah. Yes. I I do agree with that. What I think Zoomed out.

43:30 Perspective. War is one of'em, but I think it has to do with overall just capability. You know, so like if you're resilient, you're strong. All these capabilities are the only reason we all the main underlying reason that you can admit to or not that you respect these things is war. I think I would say more specifically. One of them, yes.

43:51 I don't I don't know if I I don't know that I would say the main one. I w I The underlying one. Might not be the main one that you sense,'cause you layer a bunch of frosting on top of it. But if you get rid of the frosting, you'll be like war. War is the root. I I don't know if it'd be the root. I would say it's one of the root tentacles. Oh yeah, for sure.

44:12 Put it this way, look, any time I'm contesting this whole book Or whatever. Or at any time it appears I'm contesting the whole book. I just know that I'm not I'm saying There's more to it. It's kinda like, Hey, uh freaking the tires are the most important part of the car. With no tires, your car ain't going nowhere. So that's the roots. But I'm like, Whoa, whoa, what about but no no, you have a tire tire in concert with the engine.

44:35 'Cause if you don't got an engine, your car ain't moving either. See what I'm saying? Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Well We we got you covered in this next one here. It says Philosophers may strive to tarnice discredit and blind and bind war. But the stags will go on bellowing in the woods and all males will go on offering themselves to slaughter and to death for the salvation of the species. So you can be over there like, Well, you know, there's this, that and the other thing, but it's like cool. As I just said, the stags are in the woods

45:02 getting after it and the the troops are on the battlefield right now, by the way. It's twenty twenty six. We're all enlightened. We have education. We have the internet. We can we we have philosophy. We have psychology. We understand the way the human mind works. We have medicine. We can save lives. And we got dudes right now just unloading belt fed machine guns into trench positions. That's what's happening. I'm with you. Nature which is bound. bound pleasures to ac to the acts of love has not forgotten the pleasures of combat.

45:36 The pleasures of combat are The thrill of risk, the thrill of killing, the thrill of being alive. Yeah. Confirmed. Death in battle.

45:50 is the natural end of males. Check. You know, we n now w what do we what do we do? We like you get old, you can't walk anymore, you're you're you're losing your mind, you're uh You have to do it.

46:04 Mental decay. And all this stuff is going on. Or just death in battle. Yeah. Wars will cease on earth when love is extinguished.

46:18 The hero is a man of destiny. He obeys a mission. Dude. This guy's going hard. Hundred percent. But I do agree with that part of it.

46:28 Yeah. The whole mission thing. Yeah. There is no such thing as a pessimistic hero. He would undertake nothing.

46:38 Mm. Confirmed. The full array of military virtue does not yet make a hero. What sets him apart is the pleasure he takes in difficult situations. The hero acts not out of duty, he acts out of love. What the brave man may do is give their life.

47:00 The heroes. Offer it. This guy's rolling out of World War One. Two. You know, go back and listen to Dick Hoffman and what was like trench warfare. And this guy got wounded eight times. And by the way, he's there for the whole war.

47:16 Yeah. So it's n this isn't some guy which he we later in the book talks about these other guys. The people that are in the rear. He talks about them. He's got a whole thing. The whole thing.

47:28 But I just want to remind everybody here. This is not some uh You ever heard the term pavement princess? No. So you ever seen a big jacked up truck? Yeah.

47:38 But it But it just drives around like all Yeah, in Hawaii we have in expression all go, no show no, all show, no go. Yeah Yeah. This is he's he's not a pavement princess.

47:52 Yeah. He was in the shit, as they say. He's all go. He's all go. Yeah. The hero is the one who forgets himself and gives himself. Self love guides men.

48:04 But love for others guides heroes. Nature does not create hero to live, but to serve. Heroism is to serve. Heroism is nothing but love. It is not effort. Where there is joy where there is no longer joy, There is no longer heroism.

48:23 What does he say about that? I'm gonna read the footnote. Where there is no more joy, honor may still remain. But heroism no longer does. Heroism is the joy of effort for the struggle, for the love of struggle. Mm. Men may men enjoy the universe only through the senses of their bodies. Heroes through the ph the faculties of their souls. Men are fulfilled by possessing heroes.

48:51 By giving. This whole section, you know, obviously he's talking about heroes, but It's almost as if he talks about heroes. as their borderline another species. They just have to have a philosophically different

49:04 Different. uh existence in the world. Like men are fulfilled by possessing, heroes by giving. Men are servants of their bodies, heroes are servants of men. This is a different these these people are thinking differently.

49:18 Mm-hmm. Heroes beg for hard commands. Tragic days are wedding days for the brave. Nature entrusts heroes with the deeds too heavy for other men. Yeah, he he's he definitely views heroes, which I'm sure he saw plenty.

49:41 Experience does not cure bravery. The builders of great fortunes never enjoy them. They go on pushing the boulder that crushes them. We definitely see that, right? People people just they're d what you can't get enough.

50:00 But that's a that's a saying, right? Oh, right, right. You know, can you get enough? And like why is Elon Musk still working eighteen hour days? Like bro, he has a trillion dollars. If I gave you a trillion dollars Today. How many hours a week would you work?

50:17 One month from now. Yeah, probably not many. But that's two different things. Like you giving me a trillion dollars is different than me you know, dedicating my life to something that you know, ends up ends me up with a a trillion dollars, you know. People that win the lottery. Yeah. That they

50:38 Like the urban legend is, you know, they have all kinds of problems, right? Yeah, yeah. You think What do you think? Do you think that's just urban legend, you think it's facts? I I'm Put it this way, makes sense to me, yes, from the stories that I've heard

50:49 You know. You can you can watch little documentaries on this kind of stuff. Um, I'm sure you can look up the statistics at some point to really get the facts. But it makes sense to me, yes, because A vote. It kinda makes sense to me that a person who winds up with XYZ, you know, whether it be riches or or a

51:09 be in great shape or basically the coveted things that people like have For the most part. It's they have that for a reason, and put very simply, it's because they're the type of person that lives the kind of life and takes the kind of actions that end up with this thing, right? You just don't turn it off. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. It's like it's who you are, and that's just a s in the money or whatever you wanna point out. That's just the the result, the eventuality, a symptom. Of what kind of person you are and what kind of actions you take over time.

51:40 So Elon Musk or you know who you know, whoever you want to say, or even a guy in great shape will say. He's in great shape because he did a bunch of stuff and lived his life a certain way. He's the type of person who ends up in good shape. That's the way it works. Now anytime you sidestep that process, you end up with some weirdo problems. Like you you know, like um you know, we have these GLP one. Peptides. Which that's kinda An example of that people will sidestep this process and take a drug for it.

52:10 And then it'll wind up with all these effects that Or outside of that process that are undesired. So and that goes for any kind of sidesteping that process. You know, so winning the lottery is another example of that where A person with let's say five hundred million dollars.

52:28 isn't when you win it most of the time when you win it through the lottery, you're not the type of person Who gets five hundred million dollars in this principle, you see what I'm saying? So you end up with a five million dollars and you're like you kinda don't know what to do with it. Well You go to Vegas and you figure it out real quick a lot of these lot of these people, right? Exactly right. Or you buy a bunch of stuff that a person without five million hundred million dollars would want to buy. This happened to athletes too. Like athletes sign big contracts. And all of a sudden they just have all this money.

53:00 A lot of'em end up with nothing. Yeah. They just blow it. Right. I remember an uh interview with Mike Tyson's accountant. And they were like the questionnaire or the interviewer said, You know

53:11 Mike Tyson made a hundred and seventeen million dollars last year. How is it that he's broke? And the accountant said he spent one hundred and eighteen million. Like There you go. Like It's just numbers. Oh yeah. You ever watch the show, uh or you heard of the show called The Biggest Loser? Yeah, it's a weight loss, right? Yeah, exactly right. So

53:29 You get these people who are not into working out not into you know being dietarily conscious and you know, all this stuff, right? And they put'em in this very strict and regimented program that has very few like w not very much wiggle room. So it's kinda like they have kinda no choice. So they go through this process and they're very successful at losing weight and getting into we'll say getting into shape, we'll say. But that's a very that's not really the real world process. You know, the real world process that

53:59 People will have their struggles with is like It's a world without those boundaries that are kinda artificially placed for this show, you know? So they get this crazy success. It's crazy success, very fast too. Faster than the normal process. And they don't have to contend with the the we'll say the obstacles that the real world process will provide, right? So no crispy cream sitting in the office. In the office, at the corner, in the grocery store when you're shopping, you know, all this stuff or whatever. Parties, you know, get together's all this stuff.

54:28 Not Joseph? So they go through this process, right? This is manufactured process or whatever, they get the success and they go out in the real world and immediately gain it all back. Because they're not like what percentage? Oh I don't know. It's a high percentage though, isn't it? Put it this way, I would not be surprised if it's literally all of'em. Hundred percent. I wouldn't be surprised. I don't know though. I gotta be

54:49 Fair on it. What's cool, you know what's kinda cool is like at Victory MMA. We've had people that have lost hundreds of pounds. But

54:58 I but the big difference that I think I see is like They They have a full lifestyle change. You know what I'm saying? The person that had that was overweight They're not that person anymore. Yeah. And so what you're saying is, which I agree with, when you go to a

55:16 The biggest loser. You lose weight but you're still the same person that you were before. Yeah. And there's a reason that you were in that position'cause you followed Habits and you did. you know, the way you lived your life, you're not a different person. Yeah. So

55:31 Interesting. Uh Like mothers, heroes place their purpose outside themselves. So he's calling it. For the the females that are listening that are very angry at some of the sentences that he said, he's saying you know, uh

55:47 Mothers are heroes, which I agree with. Like they're the mom Mm. The children come first. It is the privilege of motherhood and heroism. To find rapture.

55:59 Where there is only pain and effort. Props. The love of danger. The thrill of risk, the need to affirm one's worth, the joy of exercising initiative, the pleasure of outwitting the enemy, the delight of harming him, the intoxication of combat, the certainty of surviv survival, the pride of carrying through a difficult task, the ecstasy of performing extraordinary deeds, the honor of service, a healthy body, the exaltation of every faculty,

56:31 These are what make men brave. Heroes hear voic other than those of their own commanders. Even in obedience. They dictate their own mission. That's legit.

56:49 Mm. And the little footnote here says one can obey heroically. But even in obedience, the hero assigns himself his mission. Obedience is not always easy for the hero. He hears other voices. than those of his superiors. Men conquer only to enjoy heroes conquer only.

57:09 Only to give. Heroes are servants of men before they are servants of their leaders. The hero knows his own cowardice. The hero too has days when he is tempted to To only live.

57:31 That's a that's a rough one. That that kinda lands. How many days are you tempted to only live? Mm. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean let's face it. Only living is sort of the default modern mode. Yeah. Like

57:47 Get up. Brush your teeth. Scroll your phone. Eat a donut. Climbing your mechanical uh uh

57:56 Transit machine. Yeah. Put a radiation thing in your ear. Get to the The secure compound enter it.

58:07 Mm. Leave your machine. Go into Your cubicle. Look at the numbers on the screen.

58:17 radiation into your face. You see what I'm saying? Like that's his living. Right. Sure. I guess. So just gotta be careful. We're tempted to only live. Heroes have their temptations.

58:30 But they are heroic temptations. Men must be pushed forward. Heroes must be held back. Neither fatigue nor hunger hold sway over heroes, men. Take turns on duty heroes do not. Neither mothers nor Nor heroes are ever relieved of their watch.

58:54 The hero wants to suffer. He takes pride in it. Heroes love defeat for it presents with them. Great duties. And opens the realm of initiative.

59:07 Good. Um One must be gentle with heroes even when they are mistaken. Outside of combat, they are defenseless.

59:23 That's interesting. That's sort of the uh you know the stereotypical war movie we'll have like the guy that's kinda shy or he's kinda whatever and then he'll just do like Insane. Heroic stuff.

59:38 Yeah. When a man has given his all in a critical moment. He is beyond reproach even if he was wrong. Yeah. Yeah, you got to be a

59:53 Good initiative strong or good in good initiative bad judgment. You ever heard that? No. Hey, the way you flanked and ran over there and like good job, but you know, good initiative. Judgment was a little off. Yeah, it's like the old school uh A A for effort, right? A for I'll give him an A for effort. Yeah.

1:00:16 Try it hard, yeah. Mm didn't work out the way we wanted it to. Uh the hero takes his impulses only from himself. He he may be disciplined, but he cannot be governed.

1:00:32 It's a very interesting portrait that he paints of a heroic person. Yeah. It is a great disappointment for a brave man to be poorly received by his superiors or peers on the evening of battle where he gave everything of himself. Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:49 Boldness is madness to those who fear. To those who see clearly. It is reason. To deny the enemy. This is the brave man's first reflex.

1:01:02 The love of difficult situations come from the certainty of overcoming them. The hero feels no passion for victory, victory ends his mission. There you go. Some day this war's gonna end. Colonel Kilgore.

1:01:20 You know what I'm saying? Apocalypse now. Mm. You know that scene I'm talking about? Mm mm. Yeah. It's the pf one of the most famous scenes in cinema.

1:01:29 My little broadinho. Okay. How can you not know the scene? I you know, I see some movies, some I don't, you know. Yeah. Well Colonel Kilgore. that this battle is taking place And and you know, he says to the Captain from Special Forces. You smell that? You smell that?

1:01:46 Napalms so nothing else in the world smells like that. One time we had an air bomb for twelve hours and it was all over. I walked up and we didn't see one of them. Not one stinking dink body, but that smell, that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like Victory. And after that speech. He goes.

1:02:07 Some day this war's gonna end. In the most despondent little undertone, right? Yeah, yeah. Cause he knows he's where he's supposed to be. This is as good as it's gonna get. This is it. Yeah. Someday this war's gonna end. Mm-hmm. I felt like that.

1:02:24 You know, like like on my first deployment to Iraq I definitely was like hey, this war's gonna be over quick, like it's two thousand four things. You know, we were doing Yeah. Right until the end. But yeah. Only a long triumph crowned by death truly makes the hero. The hero who falls in his first battle.

1:02:46 Or survives his last. Seems not quite a hero. The days that end wars. Are days of mourning for the hero. Straight up.

1:02:59 Those who have not endured. Those who have not endured them cannot fathom the depths of deprivation and war. So there you go. So here's this guy that's talking about war, love war, all this great stuff, war, war, war everyone's bent to go in war. And he's like, Hey if you haven't been to war, you can't understand the deprivation of war. And by the way, he's talking about World War One. Yeah.

1:03:19 He's talking about World War One. That's what he's talking about. He's talking about trenches, he's talking about maggots, he's talking about uh entire battalions being wiped out. He's talking about mustard gas. But that's what he's talking about. Yeah.

1:03:34 A lot of deprivation. Yeah. Deprivation to the nth degree. At times the fatigue of war is so immense that one longs for death simply to be done with it. Hunger. Battle sleeplessness.

1:03:53 These drive a soldier's spirit to its highest pitch. Divine souls inhabit broken bodies. Souls are refined as bodies are drained. The most exalted hearts in battle are are the most exhausted ones. It's like a purification ritual in his mind.

1:04:15 Mm. Fatigue invites scorn. He's like, do not get tired. You will be scorned for fatigue. He's also saying like you're gonna be exhausted. It's so horrible, but like uh d don't show it. Yeah.

1:04:33 Don't show it. Exhaustion is never confessed, not in love, nor in war. Pride lies in seeming beyond human limits. The brave hide their weariness as lovers do. Don't show it.

1:04:51 Fatigue does not exist in war. Man's resources there are infinite. Fatigue is weakness in the soul. Meanwhile I got a picture of me and Dave Burke on a cop falcon right after we took it down. We're asleep. The rest between sets. Yeah, you definitely got a rest between sets. In war, no man who kills has need of rest.

1:05:17 War is a passion of the soul. The more the body is consumed, the more the soul is purified. Nature endowed men with virtues, but they revealed them only in war. He who has not known war does not know man. mediocre and ordinary life, man is radiant in war. Because his virtues are martial.

1:05:44 Because nature made him for struggle because war is the natural state of males. Yeah, when you were describing like what you would want to get out of one of these boot camp scenarios. You wanna get wanna get these various virtues. Mm-hmm. And what he's saying is like the virtues that we're talking about, they're martial virtues. Yeah, yeah. They're just for war. That's what they are. Healthy, smart, sharp, disciplined. Like hey, those are cool for business, they're cool for being a dad, they're cool for your health.

1:06:13 But like Yeah. They're just good for combat. Mm. War is to men.

1:06:22 What still water is to swans the place of their beauty. To say to a man you will die there. And for him to die there. This

1:06:35 is one of war's grandures. It is war's harshness that grants its sanctity. And by the sanctity, he's got a little footnote her here. Hardship. Fatigue, which he just said you don't get tired, but he knows you get tired. Hardship, fatigue, deprivation, days without fire, nights without shelter,

1:06:56 Water, snow Danger wounds death. These are the sources of war's grandeur. It's almost like a lot of this is kinda saying the quiet part out loud. You ever heard that expression? Like the quiet part out loud. Mm-hmm.

1:07:15 These things a lot of these things are sort of saying the quiet part out loud. Like w why is it we want to watch a war movie? Oh, because death wounds. Freezing, like cold, suffering. You know?

1:07:27 Mm-hmm. Like how was that movie Oh dude it was r dude it they they really showed what it's up. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, that's true. Mm-hmm. Humility. Poverty.

1:07:40 Chastity. Faith. Hope. Charity Mortification.

1:07:45 The qu the Christian virtues. Why can so few attain them in ordinary life? While in war All rise. Them effortless

1:07:56 All rise to them effortlessly. And with bliss. Yeah. Unfortunately, he doesn't mention the other side of that coin, which is like you also get total depravity sometimes in war. You get uh the Mili Massacre. You get Sand Creek. Like you get some

1:08:14 very gnarly shit that goes down in war. Not not everyone rises to the uh rises to the Christian virtues in war. War is the noble form of human activity. Poverty there brings no shame. Vanity finds no place in it.

1:08:34 Duty fulfilled fills the soul. Men are brothers in war. War is the golden age. Yeah. You know

1:08:50 Again, it's just interesting that You get Just Wars just happened.

1:08:59 You remember m remember the uh the term spontaneous combustion? Like there was some weird thing in the seventies and eighties, like and it happens, human beings catch on fire sometimes, right? Yeah, I guess there's spontaneous but then there's also just spontaneous combustion with like some, you know, fuel source that's been in a closet and g reaches a certain temper and just spontaneously combusts. Mm-hmm. It's like War just spontaneously combusts. It just pops off.

1:09:26 But it's because these underlying like things. This underlying thing. You know, I I talking at the last council. And I had this whole thing about humans acting like humans. Like you can't be surprised. When

1:09:40 you know, somebody on your team does some like little thing to look out for themselves or tries to, you know, get this little they can get promoted instead of that guy. Like you can't be surprised like by that. Yeah. It's humans acting like humans.

1:09:55 You have to expect that a human's gonna act like a human. Whatever nine billion people on the planet. Humans are gonna act like humans, they're gonna go to war. Yeah. Hm.

1:10:04 And and believe me, I'm not pro war, obviously. No, you're not? I'm just trying to say that it's when it pops off, you can't be like, Oh, I'm so surprised. I'm so surprised that it popped off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, f fully. I'm trying to t figure out where this kinda lands. Um overall because There are certain things about what he's saying.

1:10:23 Um, and of course he's being extreme. But At the same time. It kinda feels undeniable a lot of these things where In and of itself.

1:10:32 It's hard to refute. But At the same time, it's almost like, hey, wait a second, is that the only thing though? Cause he's like saying this is it for f life. You see him saying I get it.

1:10:44 I get it. I think what he's saying is these Or m he doesn't necessarily say this, but I think w the way his belief would fall out is Yeah. This is the underlying

1:10:54 Uh Uh spirit. Yeah. Humans. Yeah.

1:10:58 Of male humans. Yeah, yeah. It's like the underlying spirit is you're talking like uh Some new recruits, we'll say. Yeah. And You know Yeah.

1:11:09 What Twenty guys. Who wants to go to war? Like all of them. Th these look, these kids their brains not developed. I get it.

1:11:18 But okay, their brain's not developed, right?'Cause when you're your your male brain doesn't develop until it's what, twenty five, like the frontal lobe isn't fully developed. So you take a nineteen year old What do y do you want to go to war? Yeah. Yeah. Like that's what they're saying. Little bit of a selection bias, though. It's a total selection bias. But I'm still saying that like you take a

1:11:37 A group of twenty Males. Yeah, you're right. And look, can you go to a college campus somewhere to somebody that's taking classes on w whatever freaking

1:11:49 stupid class he's taken and be like, Do you want to go to war? And you'd be like, No, hell no. You know what I mean? Of course. Of course there's you know so yes, it's total bi it's a total biased survey that I did. But no I actually I do agree with you though. Even even like this college very specific example that you said to on the other side, which I I actually for the point or for the sake of this point. I feel like we could dismiss But if you just grab any typical, let's say group of a hundred

1:12:15 Male humans. Age eighteen to Thirty we'll say. And you

1:12:23 You know, put him in some thing where outside interests are kinda like null a little bit. I feel like the thing that's gonna start Bubbling up. is the war. The martial virtues will say. I I do I believe that. Generally speaking. Yep. And and listen.

1:12:39 Are there Nine people in that group of a hundred that are They don't want to go to war. They like legitimately they don't. Yeah. But

1:12:48 The other And there's some that are like they will go to war, like regardless. Like if you don't if you don't send them to war for the country, they're gonna go to war for a gang, they're gonna go to war for something, they're gonna figure something they're gonna figure out a way to go to war. Yeah. And then there's a bunch of people that are like, Hey, if that opportunity comes up Yeah. You know, like I'm kinda down. Right.

1:13:06 And they're watching war movies that well I f totally forgot, but what about war video games? Have you seen a war video game? Yeah. Have you seen Call of Duty or whatever? Like those those things are just war in a video game. Why are those things so popular? They may make way more money than a movie. Yeah, and to do you one even better, you're more right than you know as far as the vill video game things, even like if it's not a actual like military war.

1:13:30 Game. It's always some Fight against the enemy game. And then And you could say well what else kind of game well you could have all kinds of different skill games. Yeah, there's like like there's a game um about building, but you can fight other people in a way. No, but there's games where there's like You can make a game where there's literally no fighting or combat of any kind. I don't know, I've never played it, but I've seen people play it. Well, I remember there's a game with a bird trying to fly through like some areas.

1:14:00 No, I mean maybe. I don't know. We try to make it through like Different pipes. Oh. It was really popular bird.

1:14:09 Anyways, it was a bird, but it wasn't fighting anyone. It was trying to make it. You know what I mean? Who's trying to make it through the scenario. Yeah. But the scenario was not combat. It was just fine. Right. So you can make you don't necessarily need to have

1:14:23 Uh uh combat. And war. In a video game. And yet there's a lot of combat war in video games. Yeah, fully. And that's not to say they're all kinda you know, there's racing games, there's you know, whatever. But um

1:14:36 But let's say Old school. Super Mario Brothers. Bruh, you're fighting these bruh it's a war game. You're literally fighting'em. Yeah, yeah. Who are you fighting against in Super Mario, Brother? Mushroom beings, turtles with wings and They're half turtle, half like Duck or something like this? Are there modern versions of Super Mario Brother? Or is it all just like old school eighties? Well, Super or Mar Mario Brothers has a whole thing. What's Mario Kart? Mario Kart is the go-kart racing.

1:15:06 With All the characters from the Mario. Yeah, all the people and you can select your cart and select the backstory. Like where did Luigi come from? It's actually pretty f good fun when you look into it. I mean a lot of it had to do'cause I we Super Mario Brothers when I was young, but

1:15:25 It's like they go pretty deep. In the storyline. So stuff starts to make sense. Are they are they plumbers? Yeah, they're plumbers. Hell yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right off. And it yeah, yeah, it's a but yeah, it's a whole thing. So yeah, then you're just fighting. Against them.

1:15:38 Yeah. Against the the freaking Goomba's and the freaking whatever. And then so and I was thinking too when like in life, you know, when you get s stuff, right, without the work we'll say. That's one thing. Like what are what are people trying to achieve in life? I'm saying in civilized life we'll say. Even in like less than civilized Life. There has to be something. You're fighting for something. Right? It's not like, hey, let's just fight the fight. That's why I'm like trying and still struggling to land this whole book on the whole of life.

1:16:08 the entirety of life. Like I don't know. I think that's a this is a very specific Context. which is war, which you ca I don't think you can really deny these. They're extreme for sure, but it's hard to deny deny. But it's like okay, we're we're fighting, we're warring, we're warring. tribes or people or whatever, but like for what? There's always something it seems like anyway you're fighting for.

1:16:30 So it feels like that's gonna kind of give rise to understanding like, okay, where does war and all this that he's talking about, where does it fit in, you know, kind of a thing. So you're like, Okay, let me say I'm gonna go save a princess, right?'Cause she's in danger somewhere. Let's say I go through my little journey. Right, in life and I go and I and I Oh shoot, I find her. I found her she's in the Wood.

1:16:52 She just tripped and sprained her ankle. She she was stuck there. And I found her, whatever. Bring her home whatever and it it's all peace. Part of you, I think. For most people would be like I'm glad I found her, but it would have been way more fulfilling if there was some bad guy who kidnapped her and I killed the bad guy.

1:17:09 If there was some battle that ensued, you know? Yeah. Human nature right there. Yeah. So it is undeniable that this is it. I mean this Fundamental. There's something there, bro. Can't deny it. Birth, wealth, vanities lose all value in war. Man is adorned only with his virtues.

1:17:31 In war, the ranks collapse beneath the weight of virtue. Isn't that interesting? Mm-hmm. eventually you're getting judged not on your rank, but on your virtues. who you are as a person. It is good to toil when one serves.

1:17:48 That's what you just said. You know? We don't want to just rescue the princess. That's serving. But we want a toil song. Yeah.

1:17:58 The pleasure seekers of this world are wrong to think themselves happy. Their delight seemed pitiful on the front line. The man who sleeps on the ground would not trade his bed for any other. Bodily softness is the soul's morning. Nature grants her blessings only to those who serve her through effort.

1:18:23 Check. Pleasure seekers are beggars. Living day by day on the alms of their own flesh. Justice Covenants. Weep for the worldly soldier for the worldly soldiers prefer their hardship to the soft and hollow ease of the so called fortunate.

1:18:48 This is why When um That first Rocky movie came out. Yeah. And like when he starts going hard, everyone gets fired up.

1:18:56 Yeah. Like he's gonna wake up at four. He's gonna drink eggs. He's gonna run in the cold. And every No one goes, Oh I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna turn this off now.

1:19:05 Yeah. I don't really No one does that. A massive movie. Yeah.

1:19:13 It's just martial activities. It's asceticism. Asceticism. This is a w this is a word. Um it's like giving it like hard living. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

1:19:29 Just Oh. Uh fences, walls, locks, these are insults to liberty. Social life is nothing but prohibition. Man suffocates within it. War permits everything.

1:19:42 The soldier is poor. Yet the world belongs to him. Yeah. And we'll close it out with this little section here and we'll pick it up in the next podcast and and give Quentin Renee some more time. In social life.

1:19:59 Man is torn by conflicting duties. Life is light in war. Because duty is simple. And the path is clear. You hear so many veterans talk about that. Yeah. They're like, Oh, deployment, nothing else matters. You just get to do what you get to do. You got to do this what you're focused on. And here it is. Wars restore the religious feeling in those who have lost it.

1:20:23 In ordinary life men believe themselves masters of their fate. They look only to themselves for their fortune. But when life and death depend on forces beyond them, They awaken. They invent a god, Lord of fate.

1:20:42 And place all themselves In his hands. It is easy living. That kills. The gods.

1:20:55 So There you go. Like I said, we'll finish uh we'll finish these maxims on the next podcast, but that's a good one. I think a good one to finish with tonight. easy living that kill the gods. So

1:21:08 Let let's avoid the easy living. Which is which is look, easy living is all around us right now. Yeah. It's all around us. But you cannot.

1:21:20 Just Go gentle into the easy living. You gotta fight it. And one good way to fight that

1:21:27 Mm. Just getting after it. Right. Physical. Exertion, running, sprinting. Jujitsu I highly recommend.

1:21:34 Highly recommend the Jujitsu. Swimming, lifting, throwing There's a lot there's been a lot of throwing going on in the The Willink family right now. I've heard things. Yep. Um So shout out to What a shout out to.

1:21:47 The throwers of Ricky Brooch, right? Yeah, hell yeah. Krauser out there just getting after it. Um What else we got? Well how? You know?

1:21:58 We might as well s throw Bert Soren in there. He's out there. Bert uh He was at my house. And I was doing I was like

1:22:07 I surprisingly, you know, I have like steel maces at my house. Yeah. And He surprisingly he w he he was like I never worked with him too much. Mm-hmm. I I kinda like showed him a something.

1:22:19 And you know, he was a hammer thrower in college. Yeah, yeah, hell yeah. And he just picked this thing up and looked like he just like No problem. Like a fish to water just doing it. Uh yeah. So so that's what we're doing, man. That's what we're doing. We're out there getting after it. Um That means you need fuel. We recommend Jarco Fuel. Get you need protein in your body? You need it.

1:22:39 If you're gonna If you need it, you might as well enjoy it. And look, does that make easy does it make it an easy life? 'Cause we're'cause we're To having something that tastes good. Should we make

1:22:51 You know, a form of protein. That tastes bad. So that you have to impose your discipline just to choke it down? I guess we could do that. I don't recommend it. Maybe if you want to do that personally. You can mix it with something that you don't like.

1:23:07 Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Do it. You know what I mean? Like it was something you don't like. Yeah. Cool. Otherwise, you're in for a treat. You're in for d some dessert. Get yourself some protein powder, get yourself some ready to drink protein. Get yourself What you need.

1:23:21 Energy. Hydration. Joint warfare. I saw a buddy of mine the other night. He's like, Dude, I I got some joint warfare. His knees were jacked up. He's like

1:23:31 Freaking good to go. So that's what we're doing. Get some joint warfare. Super cool. The whole nine yards. You know the deal. JoccoFuel.com. Check it out. Also, whatever store you go to. I don't know what store you shop at. But if you're shopping. And you want Jonko fuel, they should have it there. If they don't have it there, ask them for Jonko Fuel. And we'll make that happen.

1:23:48 So Check out Doc of Real dot com. Fuel. Your Mission.

1:23:53 Also origin USA. We're doing jujitsu. Mm. We are Prepared for war. If we are preparing for war via Jujitsu R

1:24:03 Our gear has to be ready for war. Origin's ready for war. Durable. Well made. It doesn't It doesn't

1:24:10 Supply. R Enemies. Financial. an i an economic situation. When you buy something from a

1:24:18 China. Or another communist country. You are not helping America. You are aiding the enemy. So let's not aid the enemy. Let's get a pair of American made jeans, American mare made boots.

1:24:30 American made hoodies. America made belts. America made hats. American made Sneakers coming soon.

1:24:38 You call'em sneakers, you cem tennis shoes, what do you call? Yeah, I don't know. I mean even when trainers when I call'em No, not train that's Australian, right? My wife will call them train them. Yeah, I call'em sneakers now. Okay. Wait, w what'd you call them in Hawaii? Oh no. You don't even know what you call them? Shoes. Shoes. Sneakers and shoes and all that thing.

1:25:02 You know, it's kinda foreign in Hawaii. We wear slippers in Hawaii or bare feet. Yeah. Hawaii. But uh yeah, yeah. But nonetheless, I seen the origin ones. Yeah. So they're not out yet. Is that what you're saying? But they're coming soon. They're coming soon. Okay. But yeah, so I will be wearing those when they come out. Oh yeah. That's yeah, that's like the kind that I'm down for. That's next level. So we got it all. Check out originUSA.com, get some American made stuff. That's what we're doing. Yeah.

1:25:28 Is Mm. Uh Part of if not f the full uniform for everyday um attire. A hundred percent of the time. Like when I say every day, it's not like you know, most of every single time. Head to toe. Yeah, yeah. Head to toe. By the way, w when we get uh when the sneakers come out we'll be full head to toe.

1:25:47 Every day,'cause sometimes you know you're wearing another pair of sneakers for whatever. But We'll be head to toe.'Cause you you boots your head to toe all day. Yeah. So that's a good place to be. I would I would say I can't think of a scenario without some origin representation. Nicely done. Origin Usa dot com. Check it out. Also Jocko stores where you get your discipline equals freedom stuff.

1:26:11 We're on the path we're representing. Um so yes, so good. We have this idea of good. This is from day one. Actually technically I think it'd be like Three ish. Yeah, or something like this. No last from since the beginning, good. When things go bad, there's gonna be some good to come from it. Okay, we we know that. We're all right, you know. But we do have shirts where you can represent this.

1:26:33 See what I'm saying? We have various versions of it. It's all in Jocko store. See what I'm saying? So yeah, choose one, represent that as well. Also the shirt lockers, new design. Whether it be good, w whether it be discipline equals freedom, whether it be Just stuff in that vein. It's a new design every month.

1:26:49 Subscription scenario. Check that out. It's called the shirt locker. And if you want you have more questions about it, you know, like what is it what's the vibe? Whatever, just go jocko store dot com. On the top, click on shirt locker and I'll sh kinda show you what it's all about. People seem to like that one, so yeah, check it all out.

1:27:06 You like something? Get something. Good to go. Check out Eshlonfront dot com.

1:27:11 If you want to help with leadership inside your organization. We can help you. We also have extremeOwnership dot com, which is an online training course or series of courses that you can take to learn the skills leadership. We got a bunch of books. I've written a bunch of bunch of books about leadership, written a bunch of kids' books. We also have

1:27:31 Put your legs on by Rob Jones. And Need to Lead by Dave Burke. We have an opportunity if you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families, you want to help Gold Star families, check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got an amazing charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America's MightyWarriors.org.

1:27:53 Also, please check out heroesandhorses.org. Also check out beyond the brotherhood.org. Also check out warriorsinneed.org. And finally, strongholdrescue dot org. A bunch of awesome charities out there doing awesome things in the world. If you want to connect with us, Check out Jocco.com. And then on social media. You can find us

1:28:13 Uh I'm at Jocal Willing. Echo that echo Charles. Don't spend too much time on there. Don't spend any time on there, actually. Don't even check us out there. It's a big demonic uh time suck. So be careful. Also

1:28:26 Thanks to all of our uniformed personnel. Across the globe. Standing tall. In harm's way, living the life of heroes. Defending us

1:28:36 and our way of life. And thanks to our police, law enforcement firefighters, paramedics, em Ts, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, as well as all other first responders, thank you for defending us here at home and everyone else out there Let's go back to uh one of the quotes. From this book of Maxims. says the hero too has days where he is tempted Only to live.

1:29:00 Only to live. That's a good thing to think about. Two maybe just reset your perspective, reset your attitude,'cause it's very tempting. To think that just living?

1:29:14 On its own? Is enough. Yes. Yes. Going through the motions, just living through another day, just surviving

1:29:22 Another day, surviving another week, surviving another month. By simply living. Let's not do that. Let's not just live instead. Let's go out there every day.

1:29:36 And freaking get after it. That's all we've got for tonight. And until next time. This is Echo and Jocko. Out.

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