Super Bowl ads, Bad Bunny, and the business of cultural risk, with Autodesk’s Dara Treseder

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1:20 Join us at masters of scale dot com slash apply twenty six. That's mastersofscom slash apply. Twenty six. Many of the ads were just so forgettable. And I think that some brands could have sat it out.

1:39 They should have looked and said, hey. Do I have do I have something simple I wanna say that I can really cut through? Is this sincere to who we are in this moment? And am I actually making a statement about something? Now if you weren't ticking all those boxes this year, I don't think this was the year for you to have done a Super Bowl last.

1:57 The best ad of the night was Bad Bunny for Bad Bunny. That's Dar Treseder, Chief Marketing Officer of Autodesk, back on the show to break down this year's Super Bowl ads. What worked, what didn't, what we can all learn from the high cost high wire act, from anthropic shot at OpenAI to Lady Gaga's homage to Mr. Rogers, to Duncan's nostalgia-fueled celeb fest. We also dig into the Bad Bunny halftime show and what it means for the NFL and Apple, and Dara shares her view of Black History Month and opens up about her personal experience as a black woman in America. It's timely, uplifting, and instructive, so Let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.

2:50 I'm Bob Safe and I'm here with Dark Treseder, the CMO of Autodesk. Dark, great to have you back on Rapid Response. You ready for our annual post Super Bowl uh dish? I'm excited. I've been looking forward to this. I I so I have to say the the on field game. Wasn't much of a contest, kind of a blowout, but but plenty of trick plays and Hail Mary's in the ad battle. The cost for a thirty second ad this year was somewhere between eight and ten million dollars to place. You you talk about Romy, return on marketing investment, what's worthwhile, what breakthrough. Just quick off the bat, any any big winners or losers that

3:29 That jumped out at you? There were some big winners. Um, I think Anthropic was a big winner this year. Uh uh Rocket. And Pepsi was a big winner this year, so we can go into details. But off the bat, I would say those were some of the big winners this year.

3:45 I mean I I I've been scanning all the best and best and worst lists online and there's like roughly Zero consensus. I would say we are the authority, Bob, you know? But I but I know you use this lens of like memorable, relevant, and ownable. Right. And and so is that is that why you're you're particularly picking

4:11 Those Those three that you mentioned? So you know, I you know, we have been using ownable, relevant, and memorable for the past few years now. And this year. We are adding a new layer.

4:23 Given the context of where we are at. I think we have to add the lens of simplicity. So was it simple enough? Because there's so much chaos happening in the world. I think it had to also be sincere. There is so much in sincerity and inauthenticity.

4:40 In today's context, and the last thing I would say is it had to be statement making. To win this year, you had to be making a statement of a sort. Hm. So so like I like I saw a lot of mentions uh in the other lists of like the the Duncan ad, the Goodwill Duncan spot fronted by Ben Affleck. Does it fit on all of the layers that you're that you're looking at? So I thought that that ad was sincere. You saw a lot of insincere use of celebrity. The only winners uh this year from a celebrity standpoint were the celebrities who got paid, okay? A lot of brands use celebrities in ways that they really did not need to do that.

5:23 Over two hundred fifty milyen dollars. were spent on celebrity placements for these Super Bowl acts. That's a quarter of a billion dollars. Wow. And the ROI was really not there. In fact, sixty percent Of the Superbol as this year, you celebrities. And many did not use them intentionally or use them well. I think Goodwill Duncan.

5:45 Was where celebrity use made sense. We all know one thing is true about Ben Affleck, he does like a Jennifer. And he does like Dunkin' Donuts. And and like some of the um more artsy highbrow ads like like Emma Stone for Squarespace or Adrian Brody's like TurboTax, you know, sort of purposely overacting. That's That was effective or sort of modest? I think it was modest.

6:14 Uh, I don't think it quite cut through as well. I would say that I will give. The square space one was simple. Get a domain name using Squarespace. Many people might have thought about Squarespace to design their website, but not necessarily like I'm not even ready to design it, but have I gotten my domain name yet? That if Emma Stone.com is unavailable, girl, what you sitting on? Go get your domain name right now. Like that. Cut through. I even had my kids say, Mommy, should I get my domain name? I was like, wow, this is cutting through all generations right now. You know, we've got an eight year old wanting to figure out if he needs to get his domain name or not. He better. He better. In some ways like the one one of the simplest ads to me that's our cut through is the Levi's ad, with just focused on rear end. Right? That w it it it worked. It worked. My son was like, Are we looking at butts? What's going on here? But you know what? It showed that look, every human body is original.

7:11 And you know, you what whoever you are We've got jeans for you. So much about marketing is about pursuing attention, pr particularly in the Super Bowl, but it's it's like this interesting time because brands wary about sparking controversy. You know, like how do you get attention and stay under the radar at the same time a little bit? Um And and and you mentioned this, one of the biggest risks I thought was the r rocket

7:41 you know, Lady Gaga ad using won't you be my neighbor from Mr. Rogers neighborhood. To me it was kind of treading a line with all of the ice controversy and neighbors, activists handing out ice out towels in front of the stadium. That's one of the ones you said sto stood out to you. That was an incredible Incredible. Add. Um, I thought everything about that was brilliant.

8:04 From the insight The inside was rooted in the business strategy, right? They have that line own the dream. And then the execution was really well done. First of all, let's talk about good use of celebrity. They use Lady Gaga.

8:19 To re-record will you be my neighbor the Mr. Rogers all. That was beautiful, even before the ad came out. all over social media from Maria Shriver, like people were sharing just the song, right? The song itself, the Lady Gaga execution of that song was amazing. And then you have the added cultural context of Lady Gaga being a kind of a big winner in the Grammys this year. And then Lady Gaga also happened to be in the halftime show. So you had this the musical choice. Um for the ad.

8:51 Was so spot on. I thought that there was a lot of love for that ad because given everything going on in our context right now. That ad was one of the few ads, if not the only ad that made a statement. In our cultural context, that was tonally appropriate. And it did it without Passing judgment. А на зубitation то.

9:16 to say, hey, how can I be a better neighbor? And that's a call that all of us can identify with from a cultural standpoint. And of course, there's a business standpoint of as you're looking to find your next home, come and use you know Redfin or Rocket. Right. There was that underlying premise. We love when culture and brand magic. Is sitting on the bedrock foundation of a solid business strategy. Another one of the ads that you mentioned was the the

9:45 Pepsi ad, which was a risk of a different kind. This polar bear ad that sort of adopted Coke's mascot to to use against them. Right? It was bold. R the return of rivalry. We love that. The return of rivalry. Um you know, I thought that was a brilliant ad, and the internet loved the ad. And I think part of what made it work so well. Was

10:10 It was a little self deprecating. And it's okay to say you like Pepsi better, right? That sort of self-deprecating. you know, um layer, I think worked really nicely. Also the fact that they were able to co-opt the polar bear. That worked incredibly well. And Taika Watiti. Who doesn't love a good Taika Watiti? And I obviously have to give a shout out to our Autodesk customer Frame Store. Who, you know, used our design and make platform to bring that world to life. But I did think even the art was well done. It was tastefully well done.

10:43 And it did hark back to Pepsi's own legacy of, you know, the the Take the Pepsi challenge from way back, right? That exactly sort of always been their their fire persona in the marketplace. They've always had that fighter persona. I thought they they they personified that. Um and and they did it really They they made a statement. Making a statement doesn't have to be a statement about the cultural environment. It could be a statement about your truth, but on a platform as big as the Super Bowl.

11:15 It was sad to me. that a lot of brands said nothing. One of the things I loved about Pepsi is they said something. They said something about who they are as a brand. They said something about the competition. They, you know, they might not have made a cultural statement, but they made a category statement. The other ad that you that you mentioned and was also, you know, a bold shot was was Anthropic's jab at open AI. Definitely came in hard with their clawed spots.

11:45 Did they win even before the the Super Bowl A ran because people were talking about Before the Super Bowl ad ram they were talking about, I mean there are very few times my husband sends me a text. about an ad, okay? It grabbed a lot of people. The ads were incredibly well done. When you also think about the three sixty straty. Of hey, we are going to maximize conversation and ROI. They absolutely did that. When you take a shot,

12:12 Add another. company and the CEO and the CMO of that company start to comment You know you've won. Cause you struck a nerve. Now I think that

12:22 The proof will be in the pudding. Because now if they start to bring ads to their platform The internet will not forgive. So Yes, it's a it's a it's a strategic business decision to play that up. It's not just uh it's not just a a tagline. Like you you gotta live with it.

12:40 You gotta live with that. You absolutely have to live with that. I mean There there were a lot of AI related ads. Something like one in four of the ads I I was tracking were were AI. Uh one of my producers really liked OpenAI's ad for codex. Another one hated the Gen Spark ad, the one with Matthew Brodrick for being tone deaf about people's fear of AI. Like All of these these ads around AI, is it like

13:06 Like it was a couple of years ago where suddenly every ad seemed like it was from a crypany. Like is is this uh is this a bubble? Is it like what what does all that mean? I think the big picture was AI is here to stay. That was the big picture. The ad We're not

13:22 As spot on or bullseye. As they could have been, so there wasn't a single AI ad that I would say. other than the anthropic ad that we talked about, right? It almost felt like anthropic was over here and everybody else was over here. So there was a huge gap. So the AI winner was anthropic and everybody else was sort of either met or even in the in the kind of loser category. But in general the AI ads were sort of They were overdone.

13:49 This year. I would say the overarching theme this year was disappointment. I think a lot of the ads were not that great. There were a few standout ads, and we've talked about them, and I think a few honorable mentions, and we've talked about a few of them as well. But the majority of the ads were sort of uh a little meh. It's like you know w it When your agency comes to you and suggests boying

14:12 John Ham And Scarlett Johansson in a spot. Your question should be Why? And if it's not queer.

14:20 Maybe don't do that. So you know that there's a learn. They were just trying to reach every demographic. It doesn't work when you try to speak to everyone, you speak to no one. When you try to speak to everyone, you speak to no one. The YouTube ad about Things being

14:38 I I thought it was kind of a meh ad too. I was like Yeah, y you've defined yourself perfectly. It was a meh i it there was just a lot of meh. And I think this is one of the things that I worry about with our industry. I worry that in the age of More?

14:57 The lack of focus on being excellent at the fundamentals leads to a lot of Mediocrity, right? I've talked about how AI raises the floor, but it's human ingenuity that's gonna raise the ceiling. And I thought that a lot of ads were playing at the floor. There was just a lot of mediocrity. Many of the ads were just so forgettable.

15:20 And I think that some brands could have sat it out. They should have looked and said, Hey Do I've g have do I have something simple I wanna say that I can really cut through? I might sincere. To who we are and this moment.

15:32 And am I actually making a statement about something. Now if you weren't taking all those boxes this year. I don't think this was the year for you to have done a Super Bowl lad. Dara isn't shy with her critiques.

15:46 So what did she think of the Bad Bunny halftime show? Was it good for the NFL and for Apple? And how is she personally trying to show up with simplicity and a statement as a leader right now? We'll talk about that more after the break. Stay with us. Hey listeners, Bob here. If you listen to Rapid Response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show. Because every Friday we release a second rapid response exclusively in the Rapid Response feed. The guests and topics are just as compelling and timely from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from The Devil Wears Prada. It takes about 10 seconds to find, just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode.

16:39 I hope to see you there. Humans will never be more intelligent than AI. There can be two types of companies. Those are great at AI and those that went out of business because they weren't. How do we build a future?

16:53 That is human centered. I'm Rana El Calyubi. And on my podcast Pioneers of AI, we answer that question and so many more. As an AI scientist, entrepreneur, and investor, I know what it takes to build AI that works for everyone. Every week, I sit down with the pioneers shaping our future. And we take you behind the scenes of the AI that's transforming our lives.

17:20 Find pioneers of AI wherever you tune in. Before the break, Autodesk's Dark Treseder took us through the highs and lows of this year's Super Bowl ads. Now we talk about the Bad Bunny halftime show, what it says about the NFL and Apple, and what it means to live in the purple, plus assessing the brand of Black History Month, AI and layoffs. And the power of joy. Let's jump back in. In many ways the

17:49 biggest statement of the Super Bowl was the halftime show. You know bad bunny. Singing in Spanish. You know, at the Super Bowl party that I was at, like some folks loved it. Some honestly were put off. I don't understand what he's saying. What was the larger impact, do you think?

18:06 The best ad. Of the day. Of the night. Was bad bunny for bad bunny. Like I thought he did an incredible job. And you know, at my Super Bowl uh party, I was up, I was dancing, I had a great time. Now, you know, there were also people at my Super Bowl that were like, you know, they they they they were not up, they were not dancing. Um and and and and I think that was kind of reflective. I think your Super Bowl party and my Super Bowl party were like

18:32 reflective of what's going on in the world today. The people who didn't want bad bunny there, there was nothing he could have done. To have pleased them. So to have tried to please them would have been a failure. I thought he was a tremendous success because he spoke to the people who he needed to speak to. And he did it in a way that was incredibly authentic to them. I mean, from a real life couple. getting married to like a lady gaga performing to just the joy. The overwhelming thing was joy and unity. He said God bless America and he said it in English. So you everybody could understand that he had the football That's it. Together we are America. But the the America he referred to then wasn't just the United States of America, right? He referred to to uh all of the countries in the Americas, which Again turn some.

19:25 people off. I mean there's risk in that. I thought you know, I thought what he was saying, and this might be my own little interpretation, but I thought he was talking about all of these people come to America and then they are American. And I that very much resonated with me as an immigrant. I'll go a step further and say I thought it was a win for Apple. I thought it was a win for NFL. Because they are trying to be global. These are global brands that have global, and guess what? Who is global? Bad bunny is global. A lot of people all over the world.

19:57 Love Bad Bunny. The NFL is trying to go global. You saw that with they were even showing the watch parties, right? Here's people watching the NFL in London, and they're trying to be more global as an institution. So to take a very established and loved global superstar, who, by the way, again was the winner from the Grammys. And they didn't know that when they chose him, but they stuck with him through the controversy. So I think that also builds goodwill. Because they would never have won. By ditching And by opining with a spine, I think they have actually gained more followers and loyalists than if they pulled away. And guess what? Those other people, they still tuned in and they still watch the game anyway.

20:38 And the fact that You know, President Trump Called out Bad Bunny before after that, you know, turning point. Charlie Kirk's organization puts on an alternate halftime show. Fronted by Kid Rock. Did you watch that? Did you did you Bob, did you leave the halftime show too? Okay. Neither did I. I did not. I did not watch that. But it g it got a lot of attention. And I guess I guess the question it raises for me is like the Super Bowl is one of the few

21:04 shared experiences these days, you know, across the United States, across the world. And yet you could say that That In some ways having Bad Bunny sort of Undercut that a little bit? You know, instead of connecting us

21:19 I disagree. I disagree. I think that Bad Bunny united us. There are things that he could have chosen to say or chosen do that would have been Divisive інsted he says God bless America in english He has a football that says together we are America. And so I actually thought that he he he brought healing.

21:42 He brought hope. And he brought Unity. You encourage us all to opine with the spine and to, you know not Try to be everything for

21:52 Everyone's But at the same time, like there's so much risk of being called out as being partisan in the United States and like ha you know How do we live Live in the purple.

22:05 You know, not in the red or in the blue, but in the purple. Is that Question running in your head all the time? What is honestly running in my head a lot of the time is Um

22:19 Are we saying the things we need to say? To the people we need to say them to in a sincere way. And I think sometimes that might be a statement. that is red, it might be a statement that is blue, it might be a statement that is purple. I think that

22:35 That's actually not the problem. The problem That we are facing or s Is Moral decay.

22:45 And it's saying hey. I might be making whatever statement I'm gonna make, but I'm gonna make it in a way that is Really Awful.

22:55 And rude or racist or hateful. And I think that what I love about what Bad Bunny did is he showed us you can be you and you can make the statements you want to make. But you can do it in a way. That is Full of integrity.

23:12 And in a way that is not hateful. And I think if more Americans, whether you are red, whether you are blue, or whether you are purple, If more Americans did that, I think we would be living in a less polarized society and in a more joyful society. I noticed that last week you posted a picture on LinkedIn of you with your family, with your with your kids, your husband, even even the dog. And that the heading was um Happy Black History Month. Your husband's not black, you were born in Nigeria, and you wrote Our kids have been asking a lot of questions lately. So much feels heavy right now. And you talk about courage and justice and dignity.

23:51 What prompted you to share that? Publicly? This is the hundred years of celebrating what we know today as Black History Month. It's the hundredth celebration. Um and you know Some people have chosen not to recognize or celebrate this Black History Month at all.

24:12 Beyond that, some people have chosen to Rollback. Some of the progress that black people have made over the last hundred years, or they're trying to roll it back and they're criticizing it. There is a rise in antiblackness and in antiblack. sentiment.

24:31 Right, racism is at an all time high. In modern history, so now I'm going back last twenty thirty years. And so, you know, as a black. Women. As a black leader.

24:46 In today's world, I felt it was important. For me to acknowledge What is going on? And to share a message that I hope Is a message of hope.

24:57 is a message of encouragement. Um ане people be sine. There are historic levels of unemployment. For black people, especially black women, it doesn't get a lot of coverage, but it is the fact. Yeah, not a lot of black

25:11 people and black women feel like they can say something. Right, because there is also a lot of fear. Fear of retribution, fear of judgment. And do I feel fear? Absolutely.

25:24 Bob, I feel fear. I feel afraid. I have I have not felt this scared. In a very, very long time. The last time I felt this scared was when I was in Nigeria and there was a coup. And we lived onto military rule. That is the last time I felt the levels of fear and anxiety.

25:41 that I feel right now. So I feel fear. And I still think it is important to say something. Cause I'm thinking if I who have And I have some privilege, right? I went to great schools. Um I have

25:55 Some financial security. So if I feel afraid and say nothing, what about the millions of black Americans? Who might feel this fear as well, but maybe don't feel like they're in a position to say something or even in a position that anyone might even listen. And so to me it's important to Say something because That is critical.

26:18 For Нали акноложень до момент. Боли ічені вас. To do whatever we can do in our own sphere of influence. To be a light.

26:31 to help To push things forward to keep progress moving. Um because you know When when black people in America are treated fairly, are treated well, are treated with dignity, it is good for all Americans.

26:45 And I think we have a duty. to the next generation. Coming after us. To make sure that we leave this world a better place than how we found it. This fear.

26:56 Does it make you I don't want to say less proud, but like h how does it make you feel about being an American or what it or what it means to be an American? Does it does it mean Something different. I mean, I'm sure you're still rooting for Team USA at the Olympics. I'm always rooting for Team USA. You know, I I will always be proud to be an American. Um а you know you might know my husband is a marine. Um, so I we are a military family. I love this country so much. I will always love this country, and it is the love that I have for this country that inspires me to say, hey.

27:31 Let's look here. How can we continue to be our best selves? It is the love that I have for this country that compels me to call out injustice when I see this. It is from a place of love. From a place of saying this is a country that I deeply believe in. You know, Nigeria was my country of birth. America is my country of choice. This is where I chose to come to. This is a country I chose to become a citizen of intentionally. I love this country and I always will. And I also think it's important for me to. say when I feel like we could be better, hey. Here's where I think we could be better. I'm more than just say do something about it. You know, professionally uh uh

28:11 Yeah. At Autodesk, you are supporting Team USA. You're the official design and make platform for Team USA in in the Olympics. What does that mean? The designing and making of the games, of the different venues, of the stadiums, of the equipment, a lot of that is designed and make with our Autodesk software by our amazing customers all around the world. And it's been just incredible to even see the winter Olympics kick off the flag bearer of Team USA, Aaron Jackson, is an Autodesk athlete. And you know, it it's been an amazing journey uh for us to uh have been on this journey with Aaron and several of the other team USA athletes. We're cheering for them, we're rooting for them, uh, and we look forward to seeing, you know, the medals that they're gonna bring back home.

28:59 We talked with the Super Bowl ads about the challenges around AI Uh Autodest recently announced Around the layoffs. Pointing to AI's impacts. I know your products are increasingly infused with AI. Uh do you have any conflicting feelings around what AI

29:17 Is doing to us. H how we're reacting to it. You know, first of all, let me just say it's never great when anyone loses their job. And you know, Autodesk is not alone. Right, in in the businesses who um Have have ha had to do

29:35 Um take action like that. This year. Whenever we have any technological revolution. Like I think we are going through with AI.

29:46 There's always going to be a shaft. And so what that means is roles are gonna look different. Right, new roles are gonna be created and developed that utilize AI in different ways, and certain roles. Are are are going to evolve or shift. So that I think is what always happens when you have the sort of technological leaps, like what we are seeing happen today. And so that's what we the journey we've been on, and it's the journey we'll continue to be on.

30:14 I mean, I So The Superbowl. It's called the big game, right? And and whether you think about the ads or the teams or the halftime show, it it's meant to be fun. A lot of the other things that we've talked about that are underway in our world, they're not always about fun. They can get dark and anxious and scary.

30:34 How do you manage that reality as a business leader. Like how do you know when fun is a distraction Or like an essential antidote. I really believe that joy is. Resistance in my life personally, in my life professionally, I think it's important to bring joy in.

30:55 I think that you know for the people who I work with have the privilege to work with, I think it's important. That I am I am carrying in the sunshine. I am bringing in the sunshine and I am bringing in the joy in my home, you know, to the children that I parent, and my amazing husband, and my wonderful kids, and my puppy bjorn, right? I wanna make sure that I'm bringing in the joy and I'm bringing in the sunshine. And I think that regardless of what is happening in the world. Um, I try to always find joy and bring joy in. And joy is not happiness. You know, I want to be clear on that. Joy is not happiness. So I could be sad and I can still have joy. I could be angry and I could still have joy.

31:36 I can be afraid and anxious, and I can still have joy. Томі joy is a choice. Um, you know, there's a thing in my faith The joy of the Lord is my strength. I really believe that. I think that joy is my strength. And I that's something that I repeat to myself every day. And so regardless of what is going on in the world around me, regardless of the things that might scare me, regardless of the things that might, you know, leave me feeling asking why or questioning why this is happening. You know, one thing that I can always hold on to is joy, and I can always hold on to is love. And that's sort of what I tell my kids, you know. Um, they ask, Mommy, why don't people like black people? What have we done? Why don't why are people against us? Like they don't understand.

32:22 And I can't always explain everything, uh, but one thing I can teach them is that regardless of what comes your way. You can hold on to joy, you can hold on to love. And if you hold on to joy and love, you will carry the sunshine into Any room that you walk in. Well, uh, Dar, you always make this uh joyful for me. So uh thank you as always for for your friendship and for uh having this conversation. Thank you, thank you, Bob.

32:52 When I do these interviews, I sometimes play devil's advocate to prod our guests, get beyond the surface. I feel a lot like Dara does about the Bad Bunny halftime show, but I'm not sure I would know that if I hadn't pressed a bit. There's risk in pressing, not just in conversations and brand messages, but in every job. And yet, in so many ways, that pressing is the job. I've been thinking about Dara's reflection that making a statement as a business doesn't need to be political. It can be a statement about your category, how you distinguish yourself, who you want to be. Dar's emphasis on the pursuit of joy, it's one of the biggest statements we can make today.

33:32 When volatile forces make us want to shrink or despair, what's more disruptive than joy? So where you can, channel your own joy at work, at home, for yourself, for others. It's a superpower worth using. And sharing. I'm Bob Safian.

33:50 Thanks for listening. Rapid response is a wait what original. I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Tro. Our producer is Alex Morris. Associate producer is Mashimaku Tonina. Mixing and Mastering by Aaron Bastonelli.

34:16 Our theme music is by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcasts is Lytal Malad. For more, visit rapidresponesshow.com.

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