Oz Pearlman: How To "Read" Minds, Influence Anyone, and Never Fear Rejection

Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/e7a625aae77238c2

How to convince people and how to win them over is the most important thing in life. How did you do that?
Skills that have nothing to do with my tricks that allow me to walk into a room.
Be remembered, engage with people, and create deeper bonds. Those three things
are a cheat code in life, but I would say 90% of people don't have that.
So how do you develop that? How do you explain what you do? Everyone knows what a magician is. Think of this as a magician of the mind.
There are no props. Rather than tell you here pick a card, you put it back and I find it.
So intimidated. You are the horrible herring. Are there any cool crimes that you could commit? So if I was using this to steal your financial information and then use it to potentially steal from you, could I do that? Absolutely.
Could I absolutely. Uh
I feel like I can rule the world, I know I could be what I want to
Watch so let's try something really fun.
Time for money. This is the perfect example. Let's say what what is life about, right? Is it having more zeros in your bank account, my first million? I like the two commas, but where do you spend that money? How do you use it effectively?
Here's all you do. You're having a birthday party. We're gonna hypothetically play this out right now.
Milestone birthday Sam make this up.
Right now I like spot in A. How many guests are in the room at your birthday party? Be very specific. How many guests do you see
being there. Getting the number. Yeah. Make it up right now. Small. Ten.
Oh, so it's ten people. Ten people that's
And did everyone that you invited attend?
No.
Ooh, okay, ouch. Okay, uh. So you're in the room, and now this is where I wanna envision this. We're gonna play this scenario out because you've had birthday parties before, and obviously you've seen you walk in the room, you're saying hi, it's 10 people.
And this is close your eyes.
It is it a surprise not a surprise, is it?
Yes.
But okay, so you've walked around the room, you've said hi to people.
And open your eyes and this is where I tell you I say one person
you walk up to, they give you a big old hug, and you it means a lot that you're here right now.
And you look this person in the face, can you picture that person's face?
Could I have known that you were gonna tell me there were ten people at the birthday party?
I don't know. But did did I tell you to set this up? Is there any way I could have known how many people you'd have at this party or who they would be? Of course not. How? Right? How?
And then the person that would hug you.
Right. How could we know this?
If they had a birthday party.
A milestone would you attend their party?
For a really big one.
That's interesting how you thought for a really big one. I wonder if they live far away. And in your mind you're thinking
Have I been to their party before?
Watch this.
Let's let's switch it.
Somebody just came up, they hugged you at your birthday party, could have been anyone.
You looked them in the eye, you were thinking in your head.
When I go to their birthday party and I saw I know you know this person's birthday, instantly I could tell
I'm trying not to react.
January, February, March.
April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December.
Close your eyes.
Okay, I'm gonna just show the camera.
Open your eyes. There is absolutely no way I can know who you would have thought of. Are we in agreement?
Yeah.
Or anything about them, personal details. What month is that person born in?
July. July. July.

July has thirty one days. I'm born in July. That's my birthday month. Think beginning, middle, and beginning, middle, and
Close your eyes one more time. So nobody Okay, I'm gonna go with this. I'm gonna go with this.
I'm gonna commit.
I think it's a guy. Open your eyes. In fact, when you looked at them, you looked up directly at them. Similar height. Are they older than you?
They're older than men. I could tell. It was it was a differential thing. What's their birthday?
July 10th. July 10th.

Uh
And then you give them a hug, you look them right in the eye, you go, Really means a lot that you're here. John. Is it John?
Yes.
That's
Crazy.
I hate that.
My brother's name is John.
Uh that's that's absolutely insane. Uh
That's crazy. It makes me emotional a little bit.
Uh my brother.
I was telling uh my uh this we had a nanny at our house this morning and I was like, I'm uh talking to this guy
I was like, he's a mentalist, and she's like, Huh? Yeah. Wha is there oh what do you explain or how do you explain what you do?
So everyone knows what a magician is.
So think of this as a magician of the mind. There are no props. Rather than tell you here, pick a card, you put it back and I find it.
I can just have you think of a card and see if I can deduce where your mind went. It's how to influence people.
It's how to pick up on what they're thinking and how to make it seem as if I can read people's minds, right? Which we all know is impossible. But I say all the time, I can't read minds. I don't possess supernatural
Powers.
I don't talk to the dead. I don't know the future.
I've just found ways
to influence you
and get information out of you that you can't explain through a variety of different methods.
It's kind of an elevated form of magic. It truly is. It's
It's
I find the purest form
of entertainment.
is stand up comedy.
It's you.
A microphone and potentially thousands or tens of thousands or millions of people, just the spoken word.
Magic involves props. And I don't I I don't dislike magic. I love magic. I started as a magician, but as I evolved, I got rid of the props, rid of the props, rid of the props. And if you saw me last night, did show for twelve hundred people. In a few days, show for four thousand people. I will show up with virtually nothing. If you lost my luggage,
I could do the show.
With
Literally a marker.
In a flip chart.
Because
That's not the show.
I'm the show. So to describe it, it's a magician.
of the mind.
Well, what's interesting about what you do, so I've known who you are for a while because I studied like magic when I was a kid and like a lot of I mean, I was I was a very stereotypical kinda nerdy introverted kid wanting to like be loved by people and I studied the stuff. Join the club. Yes, which I want to talk to you all about that that club. So I've known about you for a little bit and then I was reading your book
I thought I was gonna learn more about like how to read people's minds or how to like do magic or something like that.
You're basically like a modern version of how to win friends and influence people. That's the hook. If I could distill all of the skills I've learned in the last three years, doing what I do.
Which is
Really interacting with people. That's truly what I do. I've learned that what my product is, and everyone should know what their product is, is people always think you're there to fool them if you're a magician.
That's that's not it at all. I create very memorable moments. And for a lot of the companies I work for, what I mean by memorable moments, when I leave, something people talk about.
And the skills that I use within my profession that are not the magic and not the mentalism, but if I quit this business today, started a new business tomorrow.
What could I use from these 30 years that would make me successful in any business? I believe these are the core skills. So it's it's a reinvention of that book.
All right. So a lot of people watch and listen to the show because they want to hear us just tell them exactly what to do when it comes to starting or growing a business. Now a lot of people message Sean and I and they say, All right, I want to start something on the side.
Is this a good idea? Is that a good idea? And
Again, what they're really just saying is just give me the ideas.
Well, my friends.
Are in luck.
So my old company, The Hustle, they put together a hundred different side hustle ideas, and they have appropriately called it
The side hustle idea.
database. It's a list of a hundred
Pretty good ideas, frankly. I went through them. They're awesome. And it gives you
How to start'em.
how to grow'em, things like that. Gives you a little bit of inspiration.
So check it out. It's called the Side Hustle Idea Database. It's in the description below. You'll see the link. Click it, check it out. Let me know in the comments what you think.
What are the one or two things that
People
Or most transformed.
in their lives based off of what they learned from your book or from you.
I think one of the biggest ones is how to make your fear of rejection disappear. So that one to me personally, I could see it from a young age was
My biggest hurdle.
I the the book starts out with me and my teenage years. I got into magic when I was thirteen. I don't know what you were saying. Again.
Of course. That was my I I remember I got that trick and that was my trick. And then uh the quarter trick. Yeah. And yeah, that was my my first time. David Blaine, you saw the David Lane screen match going buying everything. I was really into trick deck.
Yeah. So I started doing the tricks and I got a restaurant gig when I was fourteen. I walked in, I talk about in the book, I don't know where I got the the the cojones to go in there. You know, my mom was with me and just I knew how to do a sales call at a young age of how to go in, how to convince them, how to use benefit oriented language. And I got this gig and within
two weeks of me doing it, I realized that my biggest hurdle was when I went up to people, they would reject me. And it
Hurt.
You know what I mean, Sam, like you go to three tables in a row, we're like get out of here, kid.
It's it's very bruising, it's very difficult to approach the next table and not have a bad attitude. Yeah. And so again, I saw this vision of I want to buy more tricks. Tricks are expensive. My parents were divorced. I don't have money. So if I keep doing this, I need this path to make money to buy more tricks, right? It was very like linear, A to B.
And so I realized I have to find a way to overcome this part where
People have the ability to hurt my feelings. And I have to so I just at that point and I describe it really clearly, I almost became my own agent.
If you're in showbiz, you have an agent who handles your negotiations, who does all the icky stuff you don't want to do. You don't get a movie star on the phone. I can't call Michael B. Jordan right now and negotiate.
you negotiate with this person's agent.
I didn't have an agent. I'm a four-year-old twerp. I'm four foot nothing. I'm walking up to your table at an Italian restaurant.
So I created this
Separation in my mind.
where I no longer took it personally.
When I was rejected, I said that's not me. They don't know O's Perlman. That's
Oh, is the magician. It was this cognitive dissociation where I was able to take the negativity and put it on someone else that they don't know. Oh, it's the tricks. I gotta work on these tricks. And I didn't take it personal. And it was truly transformative. And I believe that that ability
to
overcome rejection and and like that fear of it.'Cause not even rejection, it's the fear.
of it and failure. So many people when they start a business or go after their goals.
They don't go full in because they keep one foot out. You know, it's like you don't jump in the pool, you keep one foot out to protect yourself if it goes wrong. That's what I've learned and what sets me apart from my competitors, I think greatly is that ability to focus on goals, not care if there's hurdles. I don't care if there's a no or a no or no. It's a not yet. And I
have to this point achieved way more than I thought I would and I'm not even done. I'm nowhere close.
When I was fourteen, I remember
I read this book called The Game. Have you read The Game by New York? Of course. Neil my God. It has a little bit of an ick factor, but the way it discusses and quantifies and creates terminology for interactions with people is incredible. So the game is a book, basically I think I think I was a 14, it created this word called Pickup Artists.
I read it because it was like it's like a little bit Jane's Bondy where you're like it's like an adventure book about hearing these guys who are nerds going to hook up with these girls. But the reality is as I read it and many other people read it, is because I was fourteen and I was desperate to get a girl to like me and I and I wanted a relationship. I didn't want to like
Hooking up with girls, that wasn't even like
A possibility. It was like, can I please convince a girl to like like me? Yeah. And so I studied that book. And then I was reading what your your work and why watching your podcast, and you do these things where
You talk about approaching people and you're like, I'll approach someone like'cause I think what you say is you've talked about this a bunch, you're like, I have to walk into a room of five hundred people or ten people and I have to control the energy. Yep.
And so I w I've learned that if I walk up to them and I'll say, Hey, I gotta run in a second, but first before I leave, uh I've been told by the owner of the restaurant to do something special for you. And that seems like um
You just made that phrase up, but like every part of that sentence

And when you study like how to meet girls, it's like oh he just put a time constraint on that. Oh he's coming up at an angle as if he's going straight out of the game. I'm not even trying to window dress it. That's a hundred percent things that were learned in the game and that are from the world of pickup artists where
It it's iterating. It's just like any type of software platform. Changing little ingredients in a recipe and seeing how they do and the
other part of the recipe is other people and what makes them feel comfortable.
And
A big one that I analyze is when you leave an event.
Who did you remember? I'm just I'm obsessed with that term. Who did you remember? Who stood out to you and why? And normally you don't think about it. It's like in the game, who are the naturals? The people who have natural game who didn't learn it.
But how do they know that they walk up and they have this cool, calm composure? What's it like when you walk into a bar, you smile and you approach the first person you look at and you say, Hey, how's it going? Oh, I had to come say hi to you. That confidence.
is contagious, right? That energy of someone who does that naturally. But I would say 90% of people don't have that. So how do you develop that? And how do you not have the fear of, oh, what am I going to say to them? And if they say this, they're going to think I'm stupid, right? All of the inner dialogue that kind of talks you out of what you could be in your full potential.
So
The packaging was magic for me when I was a kid. But
Underneath the magic and the skill that we bring to the table, and especially as a mentalist, having done this for so many years, there's
Skills that have nothing to do with my tricks. Nothing.
Yeah.
Allow me to walk into a room.
Be remembered.
you know, engage with people and create deeper bonds. Those three things
are a cheat code in life. If you're able to do them, you will succeed at anything you do. I don't care what business you're in. I don't care if it's interpersonal. I don't care if you're a teacher.
who is selling attention to their students or a mom trying to get their kids to listen and eat their vegetables and do their homework.
how to convince people and how to win them over is is it's the most important thing in life.
Are there any cool crimes that you could commit that uh that we I mean I could commit tremendous financial crimes because m my job is a con man. It's exactly the same as a con man.
But it's an honest con. Right. So
A hundred years ago.
is when it's a little fuzzy when is when
I I don't want to call them conman, but psychics who would take your money to talk to dead people or to tell you your future. They would take your money and that was the transaction, and whether you were getting the product you paid for.
I don't know. That's up to you. I'm not gonna say whether psychics are real or not. I'm gonna let people believe what they want. But
Whether or not you can prove that it's a matter of kind of faith.
I am not selling a product.
that's false or fake. I I'm telling you from the start it's fake. Like I couldn't be more honest. This is
Built on magic. I have no supernatural psychic powers. It's a learnable, repeatable skill. So again
The beauty of it is that you believe these skills could generalize to every part of your life.
They're hyperfocused. Yeah, but I was joking with someone and I was like
This guy is so powerful and he's using it to guess a bunch of losers people's ATM pin number. Like what a waste. S Seth Myers was recently on TV with with Kate Hudson and and she was talking about me because I did some for Hugh and Hugh Jackman. Uh is a great clip. And and and Seth Myers had the funniest joke where he goes, you know
I think he might be an alien. He goes, but why did the aliens send the mentalists here and then go, you know, be great for this? Bart Mitzva's in parties. I was like, what a waste. Such a good joke. Oh, Seth Myers, man. Very funny. Uh he's a great comedian. And uh
And that was it it just it had me laughing so hard I posted it, but it was so funny. But it's because it it's funny, but you don't realize how true that is. So if you were to use this in a different sense, so if I was using this to s to steal your financial information and then use it to potentially steal from you, could I do that? Absolutely.
Could I absolutely. It's not that different of a subset of of what I'm doing, guiding you to giving me the information. It's really what scammers do. Um Were you have you so we've been in here, I don't know how long we've been here but you came in earlier, we talked for ten minutes.
Are you w is like Robocop making calculations a second? Yeah. I mean, there's a bunch of calculations. I normally come into these things with a little more info. Yeah, I felt like
You know how like that story of like someone goes to prison and they um
They gotta like uh
In the first day they gotta like kick someone's ass. Yeah. That's it, day one. So you came in and I was like If you wanna read the book, the last chapter is me going to jail. I know, and I read that and I spent time in jail too. How many days? Uh months. Five days. Wow for what?
Uh DUIs and fighting. I uh in college I'm fourteen years sober, but I I I went through I was basically intoxicated for like two years.
Every twenty four hours a day. And you'd be like a a a like a raging drunk, like into fights? Yeah. I was just like a risk taker. I was like I was just reckless and I only cared about myself. And so I just did a lot of dumb shit. Just lucky they get through it, huh?
Oh my God, it's gonna learn the lesson. Getting arrested and going to jail, it changed my life because I was there and I was like
What am I doing? Yeah. Then I read that you were in jail for kind of like a ser it could have potentially but I I used to shoplift.
I would shoplift things I didn't even need or want. Were you good?
Amazing. Yeah. But think about I was sleight of hand expert.
So I used to be at a 7 Eleven. I could I could shoplift. It was like it was like Mission Impossible, Tom Cruise. Remember we had the CD and he just went like this and it was gone?
That was me. Okay, that was literally candy? I used to steal cigars.
And I didn't smoke cigars. So how stupid is that? Can we discuss that for a moment? I would steal them for my friends. And I would take them and there's Art Cigars behind the counter. So I could do it behind the counter, I could do it anywhere. What? Oh man, I'm like expert. Well, you gotta understand again, so I could do
There I'm not gonna give away magic secrets, but I could literally take something in my hands and just go like this and it's gone.
And you'd be like, what the fu like so and I would do that, but also I'd misdirect. I I'd say, Oh, I'm putting it back, and then it was gone then. Like he thought I'd put it back. It's like a
It's kinda like the way you could
pickpocket somebody. I could take your phone and say, Oh, let me put it back. And you don't know that you it's already gone again because a pickpocket touches you here, does this misdirection, right? When you look that you look there, that's training. That's misdirection one oh one, beginner.
I didn't tell you to look there, but you instantly looked there. That's the same tactic.
I used to steal stuff, and so I
peer pressured my friends. I won't tell the whole story. I don't want to ruin it if anyone does buy the book. But uh
It was it was
In college, it was drunken stupidity. We stole a bunch of stuff from a Papa John's. And then at night we went back to house party. We were wearing Papa John's t shirts that we had stolen from dirty ones and a Papa John's phone going around the party, house party like twenty five people, You want Papa John's? Who wants pepperoni? Like just running. Like you stole someone's cone at the Papa John's?
This is too early for a cell phone. This is in two thousand two. This is like a a landline broken phone. So you like unplugged it and took the It was broken. It was because you know it's a it's a college one, so they had like twenty phones lined up because all they're doing is answering phones. So one of them had been cracked. So down the middle was a crack, so it was broken. So it wasn't attached. But it had the logo on it. It had everything. So I just swiped it, put it I had like a
Poofy fake North Face, I'm familiar from North Face, in my jacket right here, like instantly gone. And I just stole that one and I made my friends go steal something. So they went in, it was a bathroom slash locker room. So one of the lockers wasn't closed all the way. So they had it like open by a corner and they just reached in and took a bunch of T shirts that were dirty. They they turned up being like grease stains. Good caper.
Yes, great caper. And so I got woken up at about
I don't even know, two or three in the morning and I was I was like
wearing like tidy white's and I'm wearing the Papa John shirt, which was way too big for me because I'm like small. And I get woken up
uh by a dude being like, Yo, the cops are here And I thought it was a noise violation'cause I'm like
So drunk and past well I don't live here, dude. What the fuck, what do you want for me? And he's like, No, the cops are here for you. I'm like, for me? And then like one minute later, I think this guy, they wake they come in and the cops are in and they're like, You're under arrest.
And I'm like under arrest for what? And they're like felony, larceny. The first words out of their mouth, which I'm like, felony. I'm like true, you know. And then I go.
Stealing what?
And they go.
From a Papa John's.
And I've been a
Um, and they didn't even let me put pants on. And this was in Big Rapids, Michigan, McCossey County. And it's like yeah, it's like
negative 10 Fahrenheit and I'm literally perp walked out. I thank God they let me get um I got I got my did I get my contacts or my glass I can't remember. I think they let me get my contacts because I was near legal blind before I got LASIK. And man in these like tiny
Tight tidy whitey's. They brought my pants with me. It was like so unnecessary, the whole thing. Arrested us, brought us in, and we were in jail for three and a half days. Yeah, I mean you stole something that uh changed my life, never stole since.
That same instance, different person, wrong thing.
Can't get a job in finance, the path.
Just it's so different.
I was very, very smart. I don't say that I'm not trying to be cocky, but school came very easily to me.
And math came incredibly easy, and so
it it allowed me if if if and I just it's so lucky that I was able to get great grades
While completely m messing up in other sectors of my life where normally those things are l there's a linear correlation. Like if you're doing tire drugs, you're probably failing out of school. I wasn't somehow. I was still getting straight A's and doing well and covering my tracks. And so
There's differences of and then I I stopped drinking a couple years ago. I didn't really have a problem, but I just was a change that I decided to make. And I think it was it was the healthier path.
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When I was a kid, I was a competitive runner. I went to college, like I said, uh on a running scholarship, and I thought that I was like if I
Achieve my potential, I could at least make the Olympic trials. And I never did because I party too much in college.
But
The hard thing about running is dealing with the pressure before you run. Oh, you know that even if you win the race and succeed, you're gonna be in pain and regardless, you're gonna be nervous. It's the most it's a very fear driven sport.
And I developed this alter ego called the machine. Nice. Where I was like I am a racing horse and in a in the
I all getting ready to go. And racing horses, they're not nervous. They don't they don't think about any of this. They're just there. And so I would think I was like, I'm just a machine.
And I would like look down on myself and be like, Well, there's the machine. I am nervous, but it doesn't matter. The machine's not nervous and he's about to race. Right. Uh I'm so happy the machine exists. And that was like an alter ego and it was the exact same thing of like disassociating in order to perform.
And it's the same thing actually with starting a business. I I've started and sold a company and um by maybe some traditional measures, I've been a success.
But I still have like
incredibly fearful about starting any new project or before this podcast. And like what is interesting about starting new things is you hit realize that like the repetitions
You you say I must accept that this fear is going to happen, but I have practiced so often at like
Doing
G getting past the fear and I just accept that this is part of the journey not
Why am I fearful?
Right.
So I I think that um most everything someone can improve on.
But
Whether you're gonna be in the MBA or not, it's likely due to were you born seven feet tall or not.
Yeah, I would agree. Like you can ma I like you know, a five foot five guy can like maximize potential for basketball. But like LeBron James was born and he worked hard. And he worked hard, yeah. It's a skill and a talent.
Where does this rank on
Skill versus talent. Like how much can you teach me in order to be better and do things like
You do.
I would like to think that it's
Mostly
skill based. If you were willing to put in the work.
you'd probably get very, very good.
There's just no question.
Where's the ceiling?
That like you hit
That
I have gone over or that other people that are at the top of the game would have gone over.
I am uh I think that the core skill for me is is one of relentless drive.
So I'm willing to overcome failure consistently. Like I'll fail and I don't mind it. A lot of other people would fail enough times and be like oh But like is failure for you, you're in a group of seven people trying to do a trick and it just
Yeah, exactly. Bonds, yes. When was the last time you bombed?
Uh I I
Well d it again, define what bombing is because as you get better and better
you get to move the goalposts, you get to change the rules. Yeah. So you you you're defining something that I define very differently. Got it. So it's not binary. It's not binary at all because you only know if something's right if you knew what was wrong.
But listen to me,'cause that's really poignant.
You only know if it's wrong if I've said the terms is you think this, I guess this, I didn't get it, it's wrong.
What if
you're watching a movie and there's three directors cuts and you never saw the other directors cuts.
A good example is I did something with Josh Allen for quarterback for the Bills.
Where Josh Allen was told, Hey, if I talk to you, do we know each other? No, no. I was set this up, Josh. No. I give him the ball and I say, look around the room and throw the ball to anybody. And I wrote it down and show everybody, he throws it to the first guy. It's him. I go, throw it to another guy. I wrote it down, it's him. It's like, how are you doing this? I guess the two players he throw the ball to. I go,
I knew who you're gonna throw the ball to right now. I'm not gonna write it. I can prove a hundred percent I know exactly who you're gonna throw the ball to. I go, put the marker, put this, go, throw something. I go, I knew you would do that.
And he's like, yeah, how do I know that? I go,
Think of your ATM pin code.
And I go, Did your wife even know it? He goes, No. And everyone started applauding. It was pretty funny. It's like a little bit rude, but and so I then guess this guy's ATM pin code. He freaks out.
And then I had the two other guys stand up and I go
What's your jersey number.
His jersey number's eighty eight. Next guy, what's yours? Fifty. Their jersey numbers.
We're the third guy's ATM pain code to his bank.
Amazing trick. No one's ever done that before.
What would have happened
If I got it miserably wrong, which I have before.
I never
Did the last part.
All I did was guess two of these people.
And then I guess the HP going, you've been blown away. Sure. And you would have never seen that the whole thing to me went wrong, but you didn't know that.
Do you understand what I'm saying? So you don't know what's next. So in in a lot of the tricks you've had, like they're called multiple outs. I have different ways that this can end. I have yeah, you know, it's like when I did a T shirt reveal on the Today Show and Al Roko goes, What underwear are you wearing? I'm like, You don't even know the half of it, brother. Did you have underwear on? No
But that's a funny point because you just don't know where I would have gone with it because I don't tell you.
And I have the element of surprise to my advantage. So as I've gotten better at my craft, I've realized that I get to call the shots and know where it's gonna go. So a lot of times you don't know if I got it wrong. Or if I get it wrong.
I will then overcome that hurdle and get it right. And it's actually stronger because it looks like you got it wrong and then oh my God.
He got it after all. It builds drama. Are there people
Above you where you're like, Man, I would love to be good as this person, or are you that what I do? Yeah.
You're are you at the top?
I again I'm not gonna answer that for you. Just do a Google search and you can kinda figure that out for yourself. But at this point right now, it's it's uh indisputable. It it's not even it's like when you describe LeBron at the moment. But again
You've got to understand there's waves, there's peaks and valleys. It's silly to ever think that everything's gonna stay the same. You've gotta stay at the top of your game and keep reinventing. But I I I'm not gonna define that for you. I'm gonna let you look at objective metrics. Subjectively, there's tremendous amounts of people that I admire. People that are there could be kids, there's
A 19 year old person does right. I'm like watching, I'm like, wow, this is cutting edge. This is new stuff. It's silly not to learn from everyone. As soon as you do that, you start dying.
When you um
Are learning an uh a new trick or a new skill. Yep.
Can you walk me through like your routine um on how you focus?
So
I'm
Uh the weird part about me is that
I do uh so many like T V and media appearances.
That
Uh think of a comedian. A comedian has to work out new material.
And then they tell the joke and a comedy and like an a
comedy cell or some club and they keep refining, refining, refining and and then it's very funny and then they've got their material for special.
Right, that's their uh I I like the parallel because comedy's the closest thing to what I do.
I have to
create new material for when I go on TV because if you keep keep doing the same thing it gets very tired.
So
I
Constantly when you see me on these things, I'm doing that trick.
for the first time ever. So when you see like like the thing with Josh Allen, I'd never done that before. Before I did it in the room for them, I had never done that before. That was the first time, which is like
Kinda the craziest thing to realize. Because I can't burn my material that I do in my normal sets, like in my corporate show and in my place where I'm performing for
audience members. If I did it all on TV it would lose its luster for when I do it in
Paid performances.
So
What I'm constantly doing is
Thinking of what's the ending.
And rewinding backwards. And it's
It's just like reverse engineering, which I think is really my skill set. I went to school for engineering.
I
know my solution and I'm just trying to figure out a way to get to it. Do you understand what I mean? It's like proof and math. Well I do that with business. So
When I was
twenty four, my first company I said.
I ta I was I grew up poor and I was like
I th I remember this distinctly having this feeling of like I'm afraid my my mom's car is gonna run out of gas.
Wow. Like created trauma. I believe it. Yeah. I don't want to feel that anymore. I want to be rich.
You knew you wanted to be rich. Yes. At what age?
Nineteen.
Night that's pretty interesting. Maybe even before that. But I was like at nineteen I was like w when I went to college, I worked for people and they were rich and I was like
Rich people are real people. Right. Oh my God. This is like a thing I could touch. This is like a T V thing.
And then I asked a rich person, I said, Like what's rich?
Right. And they were like, Well, I spend fifty thousand dollars a month and I was like, Well, you're the richest person I know. Right.
And then I looked at this um have you heard of a safety withdrawal rate?
No. So the safety withdrawal rate is if you have a a liquid pot of money, you can w can withdraw three percent of the money. Sure, sure. I didn't know that's you what you're calling it, but yeah. Yeah. How can you have a perpetual motion machine where you can just live off the principal. Yeah, where you're like free.
You will never run out of money as long as you stay within the rules that you've created. Right.
And some rich guy was like well
Fifty thousand is how much I spend and I was like that's an astronomical amount of money. At the time I was spending fifteen hundred a month in college, I don't know.
And uh
So I was like, did the math I'm like three percent. I was like, okay, so I need twenty million dollars. So I was like, so it's like six hundred. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, how do I get to twenty million dollars by the age of thirty?
Okay. Well
I think I
I did the thing called Eke Ekey Guy. Have you heard of Eke Guy? No.
What you're good at?
What the world wants.
what the world wants to pay for, what you're passionate about. The goal is to find something in the middle. Smart. That's like how you get in like flow a little bit.
I was like, I like to write. So I've I settled on creating a newsletter, a newsletter company. So I was like, Okay, so in order to get twenty million by thirty
I have to build a company that I could probably sell for thirty or forty million dollars, which means if it's gonna be media, I probably have to be doing eighteen million in revenue with this EBITDA. The way I would get there is I would create a newsletter that gets to this many subscribers. And if I do that by year,
Four, that means by year three, I gotta be here, year two, I gotta be here. And then it was like okay, every month, this is where I need to be at each month. Wow, that's intense. And so I was like, Well, if I could just set this up to where all I have to do is worry about what I have to achieve next month and next month and next quarter.
then I can allow myself not to worry. So it's just like execution mode. Wow. And so the idea was like I'll do that. And so I ended s I sold my company when I was thirty one. So it worked. That's the ultra runner mentality right there.
You don't think to yourself like I've done a race that was 153 miles and I felt like crap very early on and go the next mile. You just have to get to the next thing that you're going to do, whether it's a mile, whether for me it's the next gel, which is gonna be in 20 minutes, and that's all I'm thinking about is just get to that gel. Do not extend beyond that. The first time I did this race called the Spartaflon. It's in Greece.
A hundred fifty three miles in thirty six hours. There's a lot of these races you're here that are longer. This one is arguably the hardest because the cutoff is very tight. Like a lot of these other ones are glorified. You could walk like this two hundred fifty miler. You can walk the whole thing.
People are gonna get pissed. But you can
Five days, right?
They do it. Literally that two fifty. I see like
You have to like calculate the hours. I'm like, how many hours this is so this is you have to run this whole thing, or you're out. You're out. Most people are cut by fifty miles into this race. It's it's that challenging.
So
At that race.
There's a video of me and a buddy of mine, it's on YouTube, where at mile fifty four he goes, Oh my God, we only have ninety nine miles to go. And I literally say, Shut your mouth. Like I just go I was I DNF that year. I didn't finish and I was crushed because that
Thought of right now I still have a hundred miles to run, it broke me. It broke my spirit. I just couldn't
I couldn't
I couldn't feel that. It's exactly what you just said, which is I'm gonna make twenty million dollars by the time I'm thirty. I'm already twenty seven, I'm nowhere near like you just crumble. It's like a diet. It's instead of just saying stay focused on the next step.
We're getting to 10,000 subscribers. Don't worry about getting to a million. We're that close. Let's focus on now.
And I think that's the best way to do it. That's what you like. Me and my partner Sean, we call A B Z
So Z is the long term vision that
That inspires you.
But that's not helpful.
But it's g uh rather, it's good for inspiration, it's not good for daily action.
For what you're at, but A?
You don't worry about C, D, or anything else you just learned about you're at A, I worry about B. Yeah. Then when I get to B, I worry about C. Smart. And so that's kinda like the idea. And so anyway.
I read this w about you reverse engineering your trick and I was like, Okay, here's one of these metaphors for life'cause that's like works perfectly for like anything. Honestly. And it's
It's weird how that happens where things are going I also have a b a bad problem where
When I'm at my peak when things are at their best.
I have this uh
Fatalistic pursuit of like, oh man, things are too good right now. It can't continue to go better. And so I'm like, I'm not enjoying the present moment of things being incredible. And everyone's like, dude, you're doing this. This I'm like, Yeah, but what's next? And so that's
a mindset I have to kind of overcome a lot of the time, which is always
Just, you know, being stuck in like fifth gear and saying, What am I gonna do next? What's gonna be even bigger and brighter. Next all the time.
I should be deriving joy because I'm doing things that if you had told me
ten years ago I'd be doing.
they'd be impossible. It's like, oh, I'm at the Golden Globes with all the winners. I'm now hosting the White House correspondence dinner. Like I'm gonna like there are things that I would not have dreamed of occurring that had you rewound and said to me.
You're gonna do this and this, I'd be like, there's just no way that's true.
And now when you're in it, you don't really enjoy it in the same way because it's a it's a means to an end, but I don't know what the ends are. It's a hamstring that never stops.
You know, it's kind of like we've now entered this cycle of a content game where all of us are vying for eyeballs and it never ends.
It's like it's like I have friends who are partners at law firms. I remember my sister one of I have two sisters that are older than me. Uh when I first moved to New York, I was seventeen, I had an internship over the summer.
Michigan.
And I'm from Missouri, so good Midwestern guys. Right? Good very friendly. And I was here, it's just like your thing, where I met I met this gay couple, and these guys were both uh partners in a law firm, no kids, each of them made over a million dollars a year. Okay. I'm like
What? Junior, like it it's I don't even I can't even comprehend that number. It's it's it's un unfathomable.
And this is in um
This isn't like 19, this is in 2000. And I just don't even understand. And they go to restaurants every night. I'm like you'll eat at restaurants every night. I haven't been able to eat dessert more than once a year on my birthday. Like I just don't like to ask if you can order a Coke. Everything about this is insane.
And I can't get over it. It it's exactly like what you just said.
And so when you're viewing this from an outside perspective
Um
It's
I just can't explain how
You get once you start attaining those levels, you
No longer see it the way you did before.
What do you do with the money once you've already made it?
This is a question Sean and I ask our successful guests all the time. And the reason we ask it is because if you are successful, if you do have a little bit of money, information on how to spend or invest your money, it's actually really hard to come by.
And I know this because inside of Hampton, which is my community of founders, people ask this question all the time. People have made ten or fifty million dollars. How do you spend it? How do you invest it? And so to help solve this problem and answer this question, I actually interviewed eighty plus founders, guys like Scott Galloway, Alex Remozzi, Brian Johnson, people who are worth
fifty, a hundred, even billions of dollars. And we got them to reveal everything. So their net worth, how much they pay themselves, their monthly expenses, their portfolio, things like that. And we turned these eighty interviews into one document. And I don't think you can find this type of information literally anywhere on the internet. And it's completely free.
So if you want to see behind the net worth of people who are worth billions of dollars and their portfolios, their expenses, everything, you go to joinhampton.com slash reveal. Again.
joinhampton.com slash reveal. Check it out.

What can I do to
Incrove my odds.
That I can guess that someone's lying to me.
So I've gone into a bit of like lie detection, but the the thing is I'm not a body language expert. So like I'm not there's people that that's what they study and even then it's wishy washy as to like
How effective is this? It's like looking at
You know, it's almost like looking at vitamins, what's the efficacy, how much can you really figure it out?
To know if people are lying to you, I think that the the key way that I do it within the construct of my show, I set up very strict parameters of questions that I can
potentially get the answer to easier. It's not a daily life thing. This skill doesn't generalize. Does that make sense? Yeah, so you don't think that you are Well if I'm in a show and I ask you a very certain question, like think if the card is red, think if it's black. Think if it's this and I'm I'm trying to get
to a limited subset. There's fifty two cards in a deck and I'm getting down to one. I have a series of very pointed questions and ways that I can
influence you to get there.
What do you think of my business? How much is it worth? And seeing the answer you give me. That's a much broader span of answers.
Like have you been able to use this, for example
Giving feedback to like your co your wife or your co worker. I would say that I've had very good luck with things that are very simplistic and numerical based. So like real estate negotiations where it's a very clear cut. We're trying to get to a number and I'm trying to see where I think their number stops and where my number stops and trying to figure that out and deduce like are we gonna go back and forth? So how do you do that? I mean, how did you do that?
War.
I use a lot of emotion. So it's the same thing as what I use in my show, which is excitability, which is
The conman's tools so when I've sold every property that I've sold at a profit, every single one.
I want a feeding frenzy. So whereas other people will say, well, emotionally based, I've owned this thing, they're all worth this much. I'm gonna price it this. And I hope I would rather price something 10% less, get
a hundred people in the door for an open house, have this person spouse saying, We gotta get this, honey, there isn't been anything on the market for 499. And it's it went right under the five hundred of street easy that your searches and we got to get in this place and see it on day one. And then have emotions come into play because once you're emotionally invested,
That's when things start to happen. That's when people start getting reckless. It's the same as behavioral economics. When everyone's selling,
You should be buying Warren Buffett one oh one, but when everyone's selling, you're calling your financial advisor and being like tanking, it's tanking. Oil's about to be two hundred. What do we do right now?
Stay the course, baby. Come on, look at the long term buy right now when people are panicking. So I use that to my advantage.
in my show I do the same thing. So when I've sold properties, I've always underpriced them considerably and then taken the momentum and then utilize the fact that when people think they're competing with others,
They're gonna work against themselves. You can literally have no other offers. How many properties have you sold? I think four or five.
And they've all been at a profit and done very well. And I think that that's that's been because I understand
Not just the way people lie, but I can observe the way people behave in situations. When you were how old were you when when you met your wife?
Twenty six. So I presumably you're you're
Good already. Not really. I was a pretty good magician, but I was like a pretty not lackluster mentalist. I didn't do as much mentalism then. What age did you get good?
I mean I'm still getting good, but I I uh
That's a that's a difficult question. Probably over the next five years I start improving. Well, I it was it's been eleven years ago that I became a mentalist as like I I literally branded as Owes the mentalist instead of kind of being a bit of both, and I just decided this is what I'm gonna
do and not really do magic. It's again, this is like nuance, but I don't do almost any magic in my show anymore. Who's the most successful magician, like um data financially ever. Oh yeah. Is he a billionaire billionaire.
He's a workhorse. I mean he's no one has his ethic. He's he's on a different level. I think I read that he does
Was it five hundred shows a year? So w how many shows did he do?
In his life. In obscene amount, I think five hundred to six hundred. Which if you understand what that maps out to, if you look in Vegas,
They have their shows dialed in with teams that really know what they're doing.
And again it's
You're the performer. I'm not saying that anyone's taking the heat off of you, but anything that can be
outsourced that can be, you know, taken off your hands.
Uh like ruthless efficiency. It's amazing what some of the people do who have like a show in their own theater. When you were getting into the business, were you like this is the person who Absolutely Who did you aspire to be?
So you never know this person, but I I I stumbled into the corporate sector because I used to work on Wall Street.
So I
I saw corporate events as like the the the the kind of the top of the mountain because two things. One, I'm I'm I have the right look and the right l lingo and terminology. I come from the world of corporation, so I'm a safe bet. And I started to understand that when a corporate event when somebody wants to come in, they wanna
Maybe it's internal, like an SKO, right? We want to rah rah. We're gonna get pumped up, use a little bit of messaging and leave there feeling inspired. Or maybe it's external, it's client facing. We want to win over clients, make them feel appreciated, and have that kind of night that's memorable that we talk about. In both instances.
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Not everyone likes the same music.
Right, you could spend
10 million dollars and get Paul McCartney. What if I'm not a Beatles fan, not everyone is, then it it's it you you haven't really gotten the full ROI.
If you get a comedian, I love comedy, but comedians can sometimes offend your sense of humor isn't mine.
I
This is very lucky.
Have the one product.
That almost everyone in the universe loves.
Wow the wow in amazement transcends and it's universal. So do you understand what I'm saying? If you do it effectively, it applies to everyone and that
transcends language barriers. You could drop me in Tokyo and I could make friends in one minute. I would do more magic, but I could instantly go, Oh, that do you see that that feeling. That feeling is very special.
It's like it's like the same way as certain things are carnal desires. Like
Sex appeal, food, right? There's certain things that are just like w d hardwired in our DNA for whatever reason, wow, is very strong emotion. So I knew that I could do that second.
They don't spend their own money.
So when you go to a t to see a concert or to a show, you worked really hard for that money, Sam, you gotta go Kerplunk your own money, you gotta get a babysitter, you gotta do all this stuff, a corporate event, you're spending the company's money much easier B to B.
Then B to C.
If I ever opened a business
never consumer facing. I don't want that drama. I want B2B. I want to go enterprise. I want big amounts of money being given to me and not a lot of oversight. People say you're good, boom, ready to go. It's just such a simpler pursuit than getting a million people to spend one dollar. I'd rather get one person to sign a check for one million dollars.
What um how big's the team?
Uh so I mean depends what you describe as a team, but um I have my manager, uh there's I have an agency that helps as well. I have uh an a video editor, I have somebody that helps with social media, but all of them are kind of like contractors. It's mostly me, yeah, and my manager.
And so do you have an end goal in mind for your career? God, I wanna uh offload some of the stuff that I don't like. I'd like the team to be bigger, but really sharper and and I keep wanting to trade money for time because that's really I'm I've just running into this issue of
Money and time.
Where is your time spent right now that you think is a waste?
Oh, without a doubt on on like
Skills that I'm not good at, just like
Administrative oversight. Things that I need a very strong executive assistant to do that just takes it off my plate that I can outsource just day to day management of tasks that I detest. That seems like a that's like the most straightforward thing ever. So I know it is, but I've just had very bad luck with hiring in recent years where they they it it's
Then it's mostly my fault.
Do people find you intimidating to work for because of what they see you do? I maybe that could be true.
How does how like your eldest kid on a hole there, but like if they like are old enough to know like what you do. Yeah. And like do does your eldest find you just as dad or do they know that you're you have superpowers? I think they take a lot of pride, which is really touching. Like when I see them talk about me or hear about me to other people, uh in the day to day, not really, but
What's very funny is that all my kids they know they get a laugh out of me, so they obviously you know
Kids are so perceptive that if they know something's funny, they'll keep doing it. So all my kids, if you ask them what my name is, they'll say oh's the mentalist, which cracks me up every time, even down to my two year old.
So it's just very funny that uh they'll call me that. And then if if I'm in public, they're like, he's a mentalist. I'm like, don't tell people.
So you read this b I I I there's this book called Thirteen Mentalists, is that right? Thirteen steps of mentalism. Yeah, sorry. Thirteen steps of mentalism. I think you said that that was like the book that got you Rogan asked me on the spisable book. Yeah, it's it's that's that's that's like the Bible.
That's the initial one. What was the one that impact what was the the source, the the primary source for you to learn uh that was like the biggest impact on you?
So the biggest impact on me w w was a book, but it's so inside you wouldn't find it. It's it's even out of print. That was uh it was the business of mentalism. It was had no tricks in it.
And it was all about theory.
of
I
keep trying to distill. It's the same way I would say there's an economy of words when you watch a really good stand up comic.
timing like how do you take a joke and tighten it
I kept trying to figure out
What am I doing? I know this sounds so silly. Like what am I doing and why am I doing it? There's such key things that sound so simple that most of us, we don't have guiding principles. We just kind of go through life, we stumble into a profession, we keep doing it, and you kind of hit a certain level. And I think the people that somehow jump and raise to the height.
They look at themselves from an outside perspective of
um of like why the why so
When I'm doing this, I always assume why does anyone care? Like why does anyone care?
Why do you care? Because this is about your brother.
Your most important thing in your life are the people you care about, you know, your wife, your kids, right? Family, finances, your future, your faith, like things that appeal. I try to make this about you. I try to give you a memory, a feeling that you'll take and the story you tell is.
I how do you guess my brother John's name and birthday?
Think about it, the exact same thing I could have just guessed
a date that had no meaning to you and it wouldn't have been the same story. I think like the emotion that I feel talking to you
I mean, obviously that's insane how you do that, but like I I in my head I'm like, Okay
Magic's not real. He's just mastered this skill.
That's and the and the feeling that I have is this person is so much better at his skill set.
Than I am at my skill set. No, but what I'm saying is
I am so inspired at the level of mastery that this person has that I want to become a master at whatever it is that I choose. It's sort of like I don't need to be a fan of swimming, but when I see Michael Phillips swim, it's a it's a work of art. Yeah.
And that is what I feel like. I feel like I'm in like the presence of just someone who's the best of the best of the best. And I find that inspiring. And I'm also like
I want to learn how to be the best.
I
couldn't say it any clearer that's exactly how I feel. Like I when I meet people
That
That have
committed their life to something and are exceptional at it. And if they are the best, it's just so inspiring. It's it's exactly that. Rather than say putting myself down, I'm just like, wow, this gives me something. It gives me fuel.
Yeah.
We've done of these episodes. I've talked to twenty billionaires probably. I don't know a lot. I even know the billionaires, but you've talked to people that are just like inspiring that to build businesses that have been like really just
I like the people that
Are so
driven that all the obstacles put in front of them doesn't matter. They're gonna find a way to go through brick walls.
This sounds messed up. I don't find Elon Musk to be particular particularly inspiring because I don't wanna like trade spots with him. Right. Uh but what I love is people who carve their own path.
And I don't and and I think business and capitalism is the most
practical way to carve your own path. Right. But like I'm obsessed with people who are world class artists.
Or someone who owns a bodega down the street, but they have every single protein bar that because they've found that that's their niche, and they're just on top of it. Yeah. Like I'm obsessed with that.
Like the the the just like the people who are just said, I'm gonna let my freak flag fly and this is the path that I'm going. Have there been any like titans of industry or famous people who you've met and they've been very challenging to read and you're like
That's why you're successful, or you've noticed other attributes where you're like, you are more difficult than the average show, and now I understand why you're at the top of your game.
So I've
It's funny, you ru you mentioned Jeff Bezos and I met Jeff Bezos last year and I had him in my show.
And it was awesome. It was it's it's honestly
Like top ten moments of career what I did with him.
So I I mean I'll tell the story. I'll keep it short, but it was a room probably the most powerful room I've ever been in. It's it's a big event in Aspen and just wow, everybody in there is CEOs, people that run companies, like just name the people and say the list of names. Bill Gates is here, uh you know, Ted Serandos, we got we got Jeff Baze, like that's just
Everyone. There's about two hundred people in the room, three hundred.
And so my kids, we have an Alexa speaker. And I just I I wanted a heartwarming story. It's very true. It humanizes me when I'm up there performing, but I said, There's one person in this room that I told my kids was here. And they don't they they don't care about any of the rest of you, but this one person to them has created true magic. And I go, The Alexa speaker
In my house gets asked a hundred questions a day. At least. What's this? What's this? Alexa this. And I go I told them the person who invented Alexa is gonna be in the room with me. So Mr. Bezos, please stand up. There was just a very funny moment, very poignant. I go.
You get to now ask me any question you want.
Ask me any question and sit there, marinade, but think to yourself.
What if I had
access to all the data in the world, which you do AWS, and I could look up anything about you.
Ask me a question nobody would know the answer to. Not your wife, not your brother, not your sister. Try to go back through your life like it's a movie and think of something so obscure, so impossible, so I don't care what it is, but ask me a question. It goes,
Who'd I get in a fight with in third grade? You know, like it was just like and so and I'm not gonna go through the whole thing, but how you got it? Yep.
And it was it, I got it. It was just a crazy moment. It was just it's one of those moments that I'll never forget because it was just in this room, right time, right place, a challenge. There's nothing like a challenge where somebody challenges you. And uh and it was it was wild.
It was a wild moment. And it's somebody where it's like
It also
Every one of those is a little
uh internal of like
internal boost not of self esteem but like
But it validates because
These are some of the most intelligent people in the world by far. And to be able to take my craft, my craft is to reverse engineer the human mind to know how people think.
And to amaze them.
And also to some level deceive them. And the fact they just pulled it off or they they just have no idea how you could have possibly done that. That's a rare commodity. Yeah, it's crazy hanging out with you because um
Like I have this book up here, Persuasion. You know who wrote the Of course. Uh Robert Chanian.
His book Influence, like I read that when I was going through my period and I was like
I was like, I have this ability to convince people of certain things.
Not like you, but I was like, I have uh this ability to convince a girl to like go out with me. I have this ability to sell stuff.
Let's get this shit right. And I remember reading that book and it like changed my life and I was like, I'm getting my act right. But then I'm like hanging out with you now and I'm like, this is like Robert Cialdini times one hundred. Yeah, I mean what you're doing is like him times way more, you know, it's crazy. I bet he'd enjoy it, but he it's also done again through a certain lens where it it's it's done for
The sake of entertainment and it is very specific.
Do you want to do um one more trick and then we can do it? Yeah, let's do one more thing. Let's do one thing which is again I like this
I like this idea, my first million. It's a very smart title for a podcast, right? It's like We make fun of it. We thought it was a horrible name. I think it's funny because it it leads with the right foot. It's like this is what it is. You take it or leave it, you're gonna like it, and it's a certain culture. Um
You decided in your mind I had a number. Once you had that number, you've achieved exit velocity. You have enough money, you can make it in life, you get to enjoy your life more. I want you to imagine you spin a globe.
I always like to go back to a visual. Hold it your hand.
And you point at one place
And you go.
I would love to go there. Number one place in the world.
Right, I walked in here earlier and I said to you.
What would you do if
All the money in the world, think
where would I love to go and imagine you point at that one place right now. Can you see it in your mind like
Try to point at it.
Interesting question. Hold on.
If you've been there before. No.
You've never been there before.
I think the place you thought of normally
People will travel over. You've been to a bunch of places.
I think you don't need a passport. It's in the US, isn't it?
Reverse psychology. You decided like what if
I'll do this.
That's really funny.
Where everybody else would say Maldives, Seychelles, I'm gonna go crazy, Machu Picchu. You decided I'm gonna try and keep it local to throw him off.
And
Probably. Probably didn't get it.
How did I think the message?
We're
Where was the
Where was it? Where you never been there, where did you think of say it?
Jackson, Holy. Jackson, Holyoman.
Airbnb didn't hire you. You had to pivot, correct? Yeah. You just in your mind pivoted, just like any good entrepreneur does. And you go, Do I have to be there? Do I have to have been there? That question right then, you thought of somewhere else. Look at me. Was Paris, wasn't it?
Yeah.

Ha
That's awesome, dude.
That's it.
My first million. You're comfortable to be around.
I don't you are the horrible herring. Thanks, dude.
Thank you. We're gonna go run sometime. That's uh that's the part. Oh my god. I feel like I could rule the world, I know I could
But I want to
Uh uh put my law in it like
So on the road less travel, never looking back
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