#122 Robert Cialdini - The Principles of Persuasion

0:00 Joe Gerard He was the world's greatest sales person according to the Guinness Book of Records. He sold automobiles, Chevrolets. For everybody who ever bought a car from him.

0:15 Every month they would receive a greeting card for him, depending on the holiday that month. Okay. said one thing Inside card. I like you.

0:27 Joe Gerard. For Joe Gerard, he said That was important. It's not just that we like people who Are like us.

0:37 We like people who do like us. Can say so. Welcome to the Knowledge Project Podcast. I'm your host. Shane Parish. This podcast sharpens your mind by helping you master the best of what other people have already figured out.

1:06 If you're listening to this. You're missing it. If you'd like special member only episodes, access before anyone else, complete episodes, transcripts, and other member only content. You can join at FS dot blog slash tribe. Check out the show notes for a link.

1:22 Robert Cialdini is here today, and man, I've been looking forward to this conversation for a long time. Bob is the Regent's Professor of Psychology and Marketing at Arizona State University. He's also the author of the most influential book on the science and psychology of persuasion. Today is all about some of the ways our minds go into automatic mode. We exist in an extraordinarily complicated environment, and to deal with that, we use shortcuts. We can't be expected to analyze everything.

1:49 We don't have the time, energy, or mental capacity. So instead we use these shortcuts and rules of thumb, these heuristics, to classify things and respond without thinking. These mental shortcuts are called judgment heuristics and allow for simplified thinking. They work most of the time, but they also leave us open to costly mistakes. Today, in this conversation, we're gonna deep dive into the seven small things that make a huge difference in influencing others and being influenced ourselves.

2:18 We talk about what they are, why they work. when they operate best, and how to defend against them. in the context of an online and offline world. When I asked Bob what we should title this episode, he said The small bag.

2:30 The exploration of the smallest things that you can do to make the biggest impact. And man, he wasn't kidding. This conversation is jam packed with practical advice that will make you more persuasive and less susceptible to manipulation. It's time. To listen.

2:45 and learn. Before we dive into the seven factors that make us more persuasive, can you explain the difference between influence and manipulation? Yeah, and I think it has to do with those seven factors. Those are the things that lend themselves to assent. Because they normally counsel people correctly.

3:11 to move in a particular direction. So for example, one of them is authority. If the experts are saying that something is uh a good idea Then we're probably well advised to follow the authority um influence. If a lot of people Like

3:30 Us. are moving in that direction. There's a trend for it. That probably also lets us know that that's a shortcut to making a good decision. So there are these seven such principles that And For me

3:46 Influence. involves pointing to them Where they naturally exist. That is Informing people into a scent.

3:55 by simply raising the profile. of that principle in one way or another in your communication. Manipulation involves the fabrication of or manufacture of those principles the counterfeiting them.

4:11 of them in a situation where somebody lies with statistics in order to get you to believe that a lot of people are doing this or believing this thing that you want them to. Or uh presenting someone as an authority on the topic who's not truly an authority, is a celebrity or something like that. That's not an authority. That's something else. And so It's when

4:37 You recognize that those particular levers of influence are effective. And Co-op them.

4:47 to your behalf rather than simply uncovering them. For the audience member. Which I think is not just Ethical. I think

4:56 It's commendable. To provide that kind of information to people that kind of Education to people. That that's a great

5:07 um opening to the the conversation. Let's dive into the principles and start with reciprocation. The first principle I talk about is Very An early one In

5:19 The соціалізацій процес. Yeah. All human societies, we are trained to live by a particular rule, the rule of reciprocation that says. We are obligated to give back to others. Who have first given to us.

5:35 Right. That's the way that the society best functions. And allows people The freedom to give. First.

5:45 With the knowledge. That they're not giving something away. I mean for the first time in Evolutionary history all these species besides us

5:56 Never had the Concept. Of future Obligation. To return what has been

6:03 provided to them. But when we have that rule in place. It allows us the freedom to give resources attention Care and so on.

6:15 To others With the recognition We're not Losing it. That person is obligated to give back to us when we need.

6:25 something. It's a fair exchange. It's a great system. So We give first. And I love a new study that was done, not even published yet. Was done in McDonald's.

6:37 Actually in the countries of Colombia and Brazil. Where researchers in In fact, my colleague uh Steve Martin, who runs our office in uh UK.

6:50 And was a commission to do this study. in South America did a study where For a week. Every family that came into the McDonald's locations was

7:02 The children got a balloon. From The McDonald's. Management. Half of them?

7:08 Got the balloon as the family was leaving. As a nice thank you. for coming into McDonald's and purchasing food. The other half Each kid

7:19 Got the balloon as they entered. Those Families bought twenty five percent more food. Because They had been given something.

7:28 First. First is the key. First means It's not the usual behavioral model that we use in business which says if you buy my product

7:41 If you sign my contract I promise. I will give to you the very best service or m merits uh the of of the offer that uh I can Oh I can provide.

7:55 That means the customer has to go first. This is saying something else, but We have to go first. We give value in some way. Easily the

8:06 The way to do it that's least costly. Is to give information to people. About things that will uh improve their outcomes in any given

8:18 situation. uh white papers uh tips about the top three things to do to improve their outcomes in something not Based on our Product or service. If it's designed to tell them

8:32 how to buy us or why they should then it's seen as a device, not a gift. If we do that People are now readied To give back to us. So the rule for reciprocation. That's the first.

8:47 I have a friend who who summarizes this as go positive, go first. Go positive, go first. That's right. So so why is it we don't do more of that? I think people are afraid, they don't recognize The power of this rule.

9:02 And they're afraid that by going first and giving resources, giving time, giving attention, giving samples and so on. People might, they might just be losing that. They're not Cognizant. Of the fact that there's such a strong rule.

9:18 In every human culture. That says you're not You must not take without giving in return. They really don't register the power of that rule, but it is Formidable.

9:31 And there's different types of things that we can give. Um, gifts come to mind, maybe concessions in a negotiation. What are what are the other types that We um can think of when reciprocation is at play. So for example, you're right about uh concessions. There's research to show If we walk up to people and say, Listen

9:51 Would you be a long term blood donor? And give a unit of blood. Every six weeks for the next two years, a very large request, right? Uh starting off everybody said no, I don't even know where I'll be in two years. I can't make that And we said, Oh Well then would you give one unit tomorrow during the local butt blood drive?

10:11 In your neighborhood? We go from thirty three percent of people who agree to give the next day. Right. If that's the only thing we ask them. to fifty five percent

10:23 If we retreat to that. We make a concession. Oh So you can't do the two year thing that we would most like, but would you do this one thing? So now we go from thirty three percent to fifty five percent compliance, and by the way. We staff

10:40 The the blood services organization, we have observers there. They show up. It's not just that they say no, oh yeah, sure, I'll do that. Because they want to get us away. No.

10:50 They show up. Well, that goes to commitment and consistency, which we'll talk about a bit later. But is there a contrast at play there too? Because you now you've taken it from a large commitment um to a much smaller commitment, which feels more manageable. That's a very perceptive point. There's Not only is there the effect Uh making concession that needs to be reciprocated.

11:13 Oh, you made a concession to me, I'll make a concession in return. It's that You've made a contrast between the larger Favor. Two years every six weeks to just once. And this one now seems smaller.

11:28 So we tested for that in the study. And we found that If we Include the contrast in our presentation. Oh you can go f

11:38 Anywhere from Giving Six months uh for for two years, every six weeks for two years. Or you could just give two Tomorrow.

11:49 That doesn't produce the effect. To the same degree. You have to get them. To say no. So you can retreat.

11:58 And then spur A retreat and return. Sure. Like if if somebody gives you a a gift or maybe does you a favor, is there a balance in the sense of obligation that we feel we need to repay or is there like an almost an interest, a mental interest that we uh we ascribe to

12:16 uh returning that favor. So we have to do more. No, uh We are obligated to give back at the same level. But

12:27 If the only thing we can do is to give back at a higher level, we will. To avoid the burden of feeling Like A cheater.

12:40 Like a free rider. Like a taker. An ingrate. So If somebody

12:47 Buys us lunch. So we say, okay, next time it's on me. Right. But between that time, if this says this person says I mean a bind.

12:58 Can you drive over? to where I am and jump my battery for me? Right? We have to say yes because this person Just did us a favor while we're in that state of obligation.

13:12 We will go even higher. Oh no. Most of the time We can cancel The

13:18 uh the obligation simply by giving What they gave us. A nice lunch. Is there a time span associated with this? Like after a couple of weeks, does it wear off? Or is it more potent at the start, or How do we think about that?

13:32 There is a time frame associated with this. People are more willing to say yes to a request for something in return than The closer to the favor we've provided. However

13:45 When they have given us very large favors. Those things stay in our consciousness. And years later.

13:57 we will be willing to give back to them. They Those big memorable favors stay solid, but the smaller ones They tend to fade away. Over time.

14:09 Are there sort of ideal operating conditions like when this works even better? That that's one of them is certainly that uh proximate. Uh to the card. But also When what

14:23 We have given to them. Is Tailored To their

14:29 needs Their preferences They're current challenges. Under those circumstances

14:37 We now have a more muscular version. of the sense of obligation. I'll give you an example again. We can do it at at a at a Fast food restaurant. Right.

14:49 Researchers did a study, people came in. And One third of them. Just went to the um Uh to the counter and ordered their food.

15:00 Another third of them. Came in. And we're given A very attractive Key ring.

15:08 with a beautiful um medallion on it. By the management. Oh, thank you for coming to McDonald's, here's a gift for you. Right. They they they then bought twelve percent more food. There was an third group.

15:23 They came in. And they were given a small cup of yogurt. As a thank you. Right, for coming in. Now, any economist would say they were fools to do that because now people don't need to buy as much food, right?

15:38 They bought twenty four percent more food. Because why do you go to a restaurant? Because you're hungry. If you give people something they need that's high in their goal hierarchy They're gonna be most Willing to give back to you.

15:56 at a higher level. Sure, that makes a lot of sense. One one of the examples from your book that I really liked, maybe you can illuminate this for us, was the uh Cuban Missile Crisis. Yes. You weren't alive during the Cuban Middle Crisis. It occurred in the early nineteen sixties, when the president of the United States was then John Kennedy, and the leader of the Soviet Union was Khrushchev.

16:21 It was determined by US intelligence that That Russian ships had brought To Cuba. ICBM missiles.

16:32 Nuclear head W missiles? that were installed and pointed at the United States. Ninety miles away. What Kennedy did was to demand that Khrushchev.

16:45 Remove those missiles. And there were Russian ships steaming for Cuba at the time. That were carrying more and Kennedy said. We're going to blockade those ships.

16:58 And Kruz just said that's an act of war. If you do that You're gonna Set off a war! Not any war.

17:06 A nuclear war between the two greatest nuclear powers at the time. That was Estimated To kill a third of humanity. And during that time the two leaders were locked in this stare off contest and both of them were

17:23 Adamant about their positions and Finally Because Kennedy was so adamant and strong willed and and resolute in this. Khrushchev blinked.

17:36 And he removed his missile. Right. That was the story. that we all heard in the history books and that I learned about when I was uh alive at the time. It turns out it wasn't true.

17:49 It turns out that there was a secret deal that was made between Kennedy and Khrushchev. It was a reciprocal concessions deal. Kennedy said. If you will remove your missiles from

18:05 Cuba. We'll remove ours from Turkey. That are Pointed at you. But don't tell anybody about it because

18:13 politically if I was seen as m as compromising with yielding in any way to our natural enemy at that time or global enemy at the time. It would ruin my political aspirations for reelection. Right.

18:30 Promise yes, okay, I won't say anything. It wasn't until Recently That this information was revealed that the U at the Kennedy Library. The After it was embargoed for all those years, it finally came up and

18:45 And scholars have said No, it wasn't this hard line. That won the day. The hard line Was the thing that risked

18:54 The white. The thing that saved the world was reciprocal concession. And it got buried. It's regrettable because

19:04 The image that A lot of world leaders got from this never compromise. Never give in. Just be strong and you If you are strong enough, you will win. It was exactly the wrong thing. That's not what happened at all. It was the rule for reciprocation that won the

19:24 One the day. I love that example and uh the power of this particular effect is undeniable. Not everybody has great intent. How do we defend ourselves against this? Yes. I think what we have to do is recognized that we can't just

19:44 in a blanket kind of way reject the gifts and favors and services that may be very well intentioned. For us. Right. By people who

19:56 Would like to you know, increase our outcomes in a particular situation. What we have to do is recognize That when Those people do that.

20:07 And then use that as a lever To get something Much larger from us. We have to re frame what they gave us.

20:18 as no longer a gift. To be reciprocated. But a trick. A device. An artifice.

20:28 Designed to get our compliance with a much larger request. Where they will come out. Marcha. Far ahead in the bargain. We have to make that little change and then

20:40 Here's where the rule for reciprocity Comes in. Because Uh I studied a group that would Get people

20:47 to make appointments with them. uh to check out their fire safety i uh issues at home Right? And somebody would come in. And give them

20:59 Uh A home fire extinguisher. And then would give them a bunch of uh reasons to buy a particular kind of very expensive heat activated fire alarm system that they were representing. Right. So they weren't really there to give us the information about fire safety. They were there to sell this outrageously overpriced. system. And what I

21:24 Say to people in this situation is look, as soon as you see that what The the game was Don't Tree.

21:34 The fire alarms The the the fire extinguisher that you got is a Gift. Treat it as a trick. And if that's the case

21:44 Show them the door. And keep The fire extinguisher. Because by the rule of reciprocation.

21:52 Exploiter should be exploited. Yeah, it works both ways, right? The the second principle in your book is liking, which is we prefer to say yes to people that we like. What are sort of the main variables that carry a lot of the weight to whether we like somebody or not? There are really Two

22:11 major uh variables that we can Influence. Uh one is Similarity we like people who are like us.

22:22 So one thing we can do Is to point to commonalities that genuinely exist. If we point to a genuine Comparability that exists.

22:34 between us and the other other individual. That person Feels a greater rip. poor with us. Oh, you're a runner? I'm a runner.

22:43 You're uh uh an only child? I'm an only child. Yeah. Okay, now there's a a a bond between us and those People will feel more We're poor with us and want to do business with us.

22:54 If those are genuinely there. So uh for example there was one study That was done between negotiators. who were bargaining over email. And you know, email is the most bloodless communication device we have ever devised.

23:11 And As a result. They s were stymied in their negotiations. Deadlocked so that In thirty percent of the instances

23:21 Both sides walked away with nothing. The other half We're told Before you begin the negotiation by email. Send some information about yourself.

23:35 To the other. negotiate. You're negotiating Partner. What your hobbies are, what your interests are, where you grew up. where you went to school, what your major was in college you know, these kinds of things.

23:49 In that case Stymied negotiations went from thirty percent to six percent. When the researchers Analyze the data. It wasn't the amount

24:02 of personalizing information that had been sent across It was How many commonalities were in Those accounts.

24:13 If there were a lot of commonalities, similarities, they got the most Concessions they Right. The key was the parallel.

24:23 The Implication is clear for us. We now have a tool that we never had before, the internet. That allows us to know some things about the people that we are going to interact with and hoping to influence in our direction.

24:41 It's not. proprietary information people give us that information on social on on um social media and LinkedIn and so on. We can find that and where we find genuine commonalities. We can just raise those to the surface before we begin. I I have the same question for all of them, but are there there ideal operating conditions or set of circumstances when this works even better for liking principle?

25:07 It does. When We have had Some kind of situation in which

25:16 We've been Excluded. From uh an interaction or we felt our our feelings were hurt by somebody, a friend or something, then we're really looking for People are really looking for

25:32 That Connection. That friendship. uh association. That can be the case.

25:38 Uh as well. Uh I wanna again talk about how to defend against that, but before we get there, the my favorite example from the book, I think was Joe Gerard. Can you tell us about him and how he used this? Yeah. Joe Gerard He was the world's

25:53 greatest salesperson according to the Guinness Book of Records. For like twelve years. In a role. He sold automobiles, Chevrolets, From an

26:05 dealership in uh Detroit in the Detroit area. He sold an average of six Cars and trucks a day. Every day that he worked. How did he do it?

26:19 Well one of the things that he says That he did. That was So important. Yes.

26:25 For everybody who ever bought a car from him. Every month they would receive a greeting card for him, depending on the holiday that month. Happy New Year, uh You know, whatever it was, the fourth of July, whatever the month was. And then you opened it up. And it's

26:45 Yeah. said one thing Inside card. I like you. Joe Gerrard.

26:54 No. That man Use the liking principle. Ві лайпу лайка. The second thing

27:05 That we can use besides similarity. Із genuє compliments that people give us. Praise. Well w that we give to others. Right.

27:15 And if we do that honestly, and Joe was a people person. He liked everybody. So he wasn't lying by saying I like you. Just having that message, you would think Twelve times a year, every year automatically this thing comes.

27:31 No. For Joe Gerard, he said That was important. To let people know. So it's not just that we like people who

27:40 are like us We like people who do like us and say so. H how do we defend against this? How do we go about neutralizing the effect of liking somebody? Suppose you're in a cart.

27:53 Showroom. Not Joe Gerards. But uh you're you're gonna buy a new car. Here's what The most

28:01 Uh effective salespeople have been taught to do. Before they ever show you the car. They're gonna give you something. They're gonna give you a bottle of mineral water, they're gonna give you a cup of coffee or tea or a soft drink.

28:16 They're gonna compliment you. Um uh your decision to come in at this time of the month maybe even compliment you on your choices of colors, schemes, and accessories associated with the car. They're gonna tell you. Here we are in uh Minnesota and uh

28:35 We want. Born in Minnesota. Well yes, I was. Me too! Well, I'm born in Minnesota, but my wife is from Texas

28:44 MU- Wife is from Texas. They'll they'll claim these similarities. Right. Mm. And You will find yourself liking that sales person. More than is warranted is

28:57 By an interaction with somebody for thirty minutes howdy you find yourself liking somebody Inordinately. Step back from the situation. And say, Wait a minute. What has that person been doing?

29:13 That would cause me to like him or her. Oh yeah, they gave me that coke. The They t they complimented me. They told me that they live in the same they they're from the same area as me. They're similar to me.

29:26 Right. And then You have to separate The sales person From the car.

29:33 Yeah. Because you have to recognize I'm gonna be driving The Toyota off the lot. Not the sales person.

29:43 It doesn't matter how much I like the salesperson. I could be driving the car. So you m you have to make your choice based on The favorable features of the deal. Not of the person who's offering you.

30:01 The D I like that. Moving on to social proof, which is the third principle in the book. Uh why is popularity so effective? I I saw a a quote about

30:12 popularity and and how People are using popularity. on the internet and on in in various ways in this uh particular humor is said Popularity is all the rage these days.

30:27 Yeah. Yeah. Ha. Here's the point. Popularity. That is a version of social proof which says one way

30:38 We can reduce our uncertainty of what we should do in a situation. When we're uncertain, we don't look inside ourselves for the answer. All we see is the Lack of confidence. So we look outside. And one place we look Із торс like us.

30:55 Have been doing. Or are currently doing in a particular situation. Are we getting a lot of people going to this new restaurant, uh buying this new piece of software? If so, that Is a shortcut I can use. To reduce my uncertainty about The fact that that would probably be a good choice for me.

31:15 A lot of people are doing it. and uh are rating it positively with those star ratings and so on. That's A way I can reduce my uncertainty. Because they've already b beta tested this thing for me.

31:29 That's why it's so Popular To choose popularity. As a Indicator.

31:36 Of a good choice. Uh, there was a study done in Beijing, China that that That I love. It shows you the cross cultural reach of this. So In Beijing.

31:45 Researchers arranged with the managers of a string of restaurants. To put a little asterisk on certain items of the menu. that people got when they Uh we're to order those items that got the asterisk.

32:01 Then became purchased. Thirteen to twenty percent more frequently. So what did the asterisk? represent.

32:10 It wasn't what we normally see. when there are little asterisk next to items on the menu like this is a specialty of the house. Or This is what our chef recommends for this evening.

32:24 The asterisk said If you go down and read what it stood for. This is one of our most popular items. And each one. Became

32:35 thirteen to twenty percent more popular Four Its popularity. Yeah. No. If you have to read the um

32:43 footnotes on this study that was published on on this Research. To see one more little feature of all of this that helps explain the Or answer your question, why is popularity so uh valuable for us? And it is

33:00 If you look at the various demographic groups that came into the Restaurant. Males, females, young people, older people, business people, uh neighborhood patrons, and so on. They all were influenced by the Yastric. Yeah.

33:18 But there was one group that was far more influence than anyone else. First time visitors. The ones who were most uncertain. They could look to

33:31 The Choic of others. In that restaurant. to reduce their uncertainty about what to buy. Sure. I think that that's a really good point, right? So uncertainty makes us more um vulnerable to it. I think there's a a couple of other nuances to this that I find really interesting. One is

33:50 feasibility, right? So if we see other people doing something, we feel like we can do it too, especially I would imagine if we identify as part of that tribe or Um that person is similar to us. In fact, I once worked for a company as the chief

34:06 Scientist. That Sent messages to the customers of local power companies. About

34:14 how much energy They were using relative to their comparable neighbors, neighbors uh who had similar sized homes, similar uh air conditioning and heating units, and so on. That information cause those people who were using more energy than their neighbors to dramatically reduce their energy. And I think one reason Is what you said.

34:42 It's that well, if My neighbors like me can do it. That means I can do it. It means it's feasible. And I I can tell you something that is

34:53 remarkable about This company it was called Old Power, it's since been purchased by Uh Oracle. А за результатом All power has

35:03 Із респаса For Thirty Billion pounds of carbon dioxide that have not

35:12 been released into the environment. Because people have reduced their energy conservation. By just knowing what their comparable neighbors are doing

35:23 And saying, Well then I can do that. It can be a very effective tool for good. It can also be used against us. How do we defend against social proof? So what we have to do Let's take uh online reviews. Right. We have to check out

35:39 the character of those reviews. It turns out There's particular things that allow us to know when the review is phony. Дудаю. A lot of personal stories. That means

35:52 They're not giving you Evidence of the features of the product or service because they don't really know. They've just been hired to give Do they use a lot of verbs rather than nouns for the same reason. It's they're telling

36:09 Uh what they were doing and how they were operating and how they were feeling about it rather than what the product really was. Right. So we can look to that. But also

36:22 There was a great study. That look at Which Star rating. On a product review.

36:30 was most likely To produce a conversion. From a prospect to a customer. It wasn't a five point rating.

36:40 It was A range Between four point two and four point seven. People were on to The tricksters

36:50 who were loading their evaluations with all of these positive things. So If it was below four point two People say well maybe this isn't such a great Product.

37:02 If it was above four point seven They got suspicious. So what we have actually is a constant struggle. Between The Product review sites.

37:14 Who have algorithms to try to weed out. The phony uh reviews. And The tricksters who are trying to outflank the the various to protect to prevent them.

37:27 And it's all it's an ongoing battle. But there are a couple of things we can do and here's the thing that I I Keep recommending in Yeah. response to your question, what can we do about this?

37:40 So for example there are Instances in which Uh news accounts tell us of Companies that were caught Providing phony information about their products, uh I mean their popularity, or about their market share, or about their ratings and so on.

37:58 Whenever we see one of those We need to go. on their site. And go on every site. Of our

38:06 Uh social media. And Say so. Look, these people were cheaters. Don't go back to them.

38:13 Look, they've been caught cheating. Don't do business with them. We have to penalize Those people Who do the manipulation

38:22 that you were asking about earlier. We can't just let say well I'm not gonna do business with them. We have to really penalize them at their bottom line level. in order to reduce this tendency to To manipulate.

38:37 Let's talk about authority. Is there a difference between Uh being an authority and being in authority. There is And We can have a lot of evidence of

38:50 Somebody who's in charge. directing those Well working or a operating. Beneath them.

38:59 To do something. coerce them or threaten them uh with some kind of form of uh penalty if they don't uh move in a particular direction. Because I'm the boss. Playing the I'm the boss card. That has costs.

39:16 People don't like being pushed. They don't like being pressured even by somebody who's in authority over them. Very often what they do is they find a way to finesse the system and uh get around the uh the directive. Because what that's about for me is not

39:38 Influence as much as it is power. That's about power. Yes, and we can wield power, but there are costs of it. That's from being in authority. What we are recommending

39:52 As a way to be influential. Is being an authority. Somebody who knows a lot about the topic. Someone who's a true expert on the matter. To the extent that we can harness that principle

40:07 Bye. g having testimonials from legitimately highly knowledgeable experts that speak to our idea or our product or service. That's gonna Work.

40:21 I know that when bows uh acoustics Uh we were working with them. When they added uh to uh an ad for a product that they had called the Bosewave Music System. A line of

40:36 Testifiers. Uh right at the start of the ad all over to the to the left, just as you read the ad and up at the top, they saw all these testifiers. It increased Purchases by fifteen percent.

40:50 Oh wow. Of that product. We know that it was that ad that did it. Because the increase

40:59 occurred only to the phone number That was in the ad. It didn't occur in the shops, people walking in and buying No. It was to that phone number.

41:11 And were those testimonials by authority figures, or were those testimonials just average people? They were testimonials by authorities. legitimate experts on audition and electronic components, the audio components and so on. Now here's the thing that we did help them with. Originally when the marketing department structured that ad Those testimonials were at the bottom.

41:37 And look at all of the people who agree with what we've just said here about this. By moving them to the top. The authority aura. That they provide. Is infused on

41:50 Into every word. Of that ad. as people are experiencing it. Why would you throw that? Honest. lever of influence away.

42:04 At the top. So what I always recommend to people who are using testimonials And this can include, by the way, as you i inferred They can also include testimonials from similar others because remember, we want to follow the lead of people like us, right? So you've got Pierce?

42:22 Or you have experts. In either case. They need to Go at the top. So that

42:29 You have been informed. Ahead of time. That others Experts or peers Have reduced your uncertainty

42:40 Of whether to believe. the information that's going to come next. How do we defend ourselves against this? To ask ourselves two questions. When we see an authority

42:52 Testimonial. One is Is this person truly an expert? In this matter What does Matthew McConahe really know about crisis?

43:05 He's driving and he's telling us how a great Chrysler He's just some actor. Right. It's What's that?

43:13 Right. There was a great Uh set of uh T V commercials. that began with

43:20 An actor. Who played a doctor on TV. who began by saying, I'm not a doctor, but I play a doctor on TV, right? That

43:31 And sold all kinds of cough syrup. If we had thought about it and said, wait a minute, before I Believe this person. Let me ask, is this person an expert on this topic? No! So that should

43:46 Un hook. The expert influence. From my mind on this. That's the first thing. But sometimes we will have People who are genuine experts.

43:57 recommending something. Then we have to ask a second question. Is there a reason for this person? To be recommending This product or service.

44:08 Other than its merits. Is this person hired? Does this person get products? For doing this what a lot of influencers get. They get products and Income. From

44:21 Those products that they Advocate on air. So we have to Once again, unhook their perceived authority here.

44:31 If They truly are, you know, they are makeup consultants and so on. They all do this and they say, We love this particular kind All right. They might have authority, but Whether they're Acting in that unbiased, independent way is another question we should ask ourselves. And if we see that they're not. Unhook.

44:50 the perception that this person should be followed because of that expertise. Let's talk about the scarcity principle. Sure. People want more of those things they can have less of. We

45:04 Find That those item that are Rare? Scarce Dwindling in in availability.

45:13 А мор атрактив то. We want those things more of those things we can have less of. And we all know that there's a uh an acrimon called FOMO. fear of missing out that we've all heard about.

45:27 That's a a a big Rezen why scarsity works. The idea that If something is rare or scarce or dwindling in availability It means we might not get it. We might

45:42 Miss it. Fear of missing out. We might miss out on this thing. Right. And we hate that idea. There's a a concept called loss aversion.

45:52 that uh Daniel Kahneman, who won the Nobel Prize in Economics a few years ago Demonstrated. That The idea of losing something of a particular value.

46:06 Із твай з порфо. on human psychology. as the idea of gaining that very same thing. When we present An idea to people.

46:18 That has all kinds of benefits and advantages that we can genuinely point to. We should not just couch it in terms of This is what you'll be able to gain. By choosing our product. We should also honestly be able to say that

46:36 And this is Something You don't want to lose. Right. You don't want to fork. Go.

46:43 Those benefits. That will resonate. More powerfully. Rem we were talking about that Bose ad that I was mentioned that if you put

46:53 Is that the one where you did the hear what you're missing or Yes. So we also before we even did that with Bose on that same project. The first generation of the ad was very unsuccessful for boats. At the top of the Uh of the ad.

47:10 Was the word new? And then after that, there was all kinds of information about new features, new elegance, new simplicity, and it wasn't being very well received by the Bose purchasers. So we asked them, we said, look. Don't change the whole ad. Change what you say at the top of the ad.

47:32 The word new Says Uncertain. Mm-hmm. It says

47:39 There isn't any evidence about this yet. There isn't any feedback that I can see from my neighbors or friends at the office who've tried it or you know. It's it's brand new. I'm gonna s I'm gonna wait. What we did was to change the word new to

47:56 Hear what you've been missing. The idea of missing out Says No time for waiting. No, no, I have to get this. I don't want to miss it.

48:08 I don't want to miss out on this great thing. Right? That Change. produced a forty five percent increase in sales.

48:16 Then If the Bose Marketing Department added testimonials. They produced a fifteen percent greater increase. to sixty percent. increase from the initial

48:28 generation of that ad. But the idea of loss is what people really No. I don't know how many of uh the y your your followers are uh online

48:41 Uh operators so Most of us have s a lot of Uh online profile. But

48:48 There was a study. Of six Thousand seven hundred E commerce sites. And A B tests that were done.

48:58 for various components inside Those sites. Does the site have free Delivery. Does the site have

49:07 A search function. Does every appeal And with a call to action. They had twenty nine of those. The top six?

49:17 We're all Principles of social influence. And the top one? was scarcity of supply. We only have a certain number of these

49:29 with this feature Or at this price. It was the top. A B tests that produce conversion. From prospect to customer.

49:42 Second was social proof. Look at all the people who've already done this. We've gotten this kind of message and By the way, there's a new research that shows that That there is a particularly powerful form of social proof.

50:00 That isn't just A large number of people have done this. But there's a trend to that number. It used to be that Last year

50:11 We had Uh thirty percent market share. Six months ago It was thirty-five. No, it's 40%.

50:20 Right? That's more powerful than just saying 40%. Because people project the the function of the trend into the future. So social proof was number two.

50:34 With Evidence like that of a large market share or popularity or trends. And number three. was

50:44 Scarcity Of time. That is limited time offers. This Offer is only good.

50:52 Four This week. Bost Three? were the most powerful uh uh uh approaches so scarcity

51:03 was two of the top three. No, I'm gonna suggest There's something else that we can do. That in Power is the scarcity principle.

51:12 Right. And it doesn't require scarcity of supply or scar Or or time limits. And that is Unikness

51:21 Of what we offer. If we have something A фічі that none of our rivals can. Match.

51:30 That's where we go. Because people will want it if they can't get it anywhere else. На ала та Because of the homogenation of the way things are present. manufactured and offered these days. A lot of times there it isn't one thing. That separates you from anybody else in the market.

51:51 But it could be a suite of things. A particular combination Oh. Features. That only you provid.

52:01 Go there. That's what people don't want to lose. By going somewhere else. Let's um talk about commitment and consistency principle. This is the one that says people want to be consistent.

52:15 With what they have already said or done. Especially in public. As a consequence Right. If we can ask people to take a small step in our direction,

52:26 Voluntarily. Could you do this? Take a small step. They will now be significantly more likely to take a larger step That is congruent.

52:38 with what they have already done. because people want to be consistent within their behavior and they want to be seen. As consistent. So Uh here's a good study in that regard. It was a study done

52:50 in Chicago. With uh a restaurant owner named Gordon Sinclair. There's a famous restaurant called uh Gordon's there in Chicago. He's since retired, but while he was operating, he had a problem. No shows. People who would call They make a a reservation on that just then they just wouldn't show up.

53:09 And they wouldn't call ahead to cancel. He had uh thirty percent uh no shows. So he walked around to and saw what his receptionist would say to people when she took a booking. She would say thank you for calling Gordons.

53:24 Please call if you have to change or cancel your reservation. He asked her to change two words. Will you Please call. If you have to change or cancel your reservation.

53:36 And then he asked her to pause and And have people fill that moment. And they all said, Of course. Sure. Glad to.

53:46 And that was their commitment. And no shows drop by sixty seven percent. immediately and never went up. Because he had gotten them to make an active public voluntary commitment. to something and now they're gonna live up to it to a greater degree.

54:02 So here's an implication I think for Anybody like a manager Anytime you're r running a meeting And you've given members of their team

54:15 Tasks to perform. and complete before the next meeting. Don't let anybody out of that room. Until you ask the question. Will you? Be able

54:26 To complete this By our next meeting? And pause. If the answer is no, then That's actually good for a manager to know. That means okay, then I have to give this person more time or more resources.

54:42 or maybe even some help with it. But if the answer is yes You have now significantly increased the likelihood that that person will come with a properly completed task.

54:57 You've asked them And they have made an active public Voluntary commitment. to doing so.

55:07 One of the interesting things for me about ki commitment and consistency is we sort of hide inside the walls of our own thinking. How do we how do we defend against this, not only when other people are using it, but how do we defend ourselves from just constantly um escalating and being held to opinions that may be no longer valid. Man, this is a good question and I'm gonna Answer it by First saying

55:32 How we do this With people who we would like to change in our direction who have already made a commitment to something else. to another product or service or an ID. Right now we've got a lot of people

55:46 who are resisting uh health information about What Right. How do we Change that.

55:53 We can't say well You know. When you made that decision, it was the wrong choice. You were just making a a a wrong choice. Uh you are you're not a good decision maker. People wanna hear that. That's gonna get their back up and they're say I I still stand by this decision.

56:09 What you have to say is at the time that you made that choice in the information environment That may have well been a good choice for you. But Here's a new piece of information that we didn't have back then. Mm.

56:24 As a good decision maker People take into account all the information. So you're a good decision. And we can get people unmoored. From that commitment.

56:35 that they had made by saying, Okay, now Let's re-evaluate because there's a new piece of information I can give you. on this topic And this is what I think I'm gonna ask us. To do ourselves.

56:47 That When we encounter A new piece of information relative to a decision. Or a choice that we've made and you know.

56:58 And that We get a chance to Change. We need to say If

57:04 I knew this When I First made my choice. If that was part of this decision. Would I have made the same choice, or would this Have had us enough weight.

57:16 To move me. My guess is a lot of times. That would allow us to say I want to take into account all of the information, including the information that I didn't have back. There's so many other questions I want to ask. And uh we have to cover Unity and then I have a whole host of other questions. So let's talk about Unity, which is the the new one that you've added to the book, the seventh principle.

57:40 What is it? How does it work? It works for a communicator in the following way. If that communicator can Arrange for us to see him or her As one of us

57:56 As someone who shares an identity with them. in some kind of important way. Like a tribal identity. It can be a tri yes, tribal identity, but it can be

58:07 Something Uh l I'll give you an example of uh a study that was done on a college campus Researchers asked uh A young woman college age. woman to stand on a

58:19 Heavily trafficked. part of campus and ask people to donate to a good cause. I think it was the United Way. Mm-hmm. contributions. If she said

58:31 Before she made the request. One Thing. Which was I'm a student here too.

58:40 Would you give the United Way Donations went up four hundred percent. I'm one of you. I'm like one of you. I'm of you. I'm not just like you in style or preferences or I'm of you.

58:54 Then People will say yes. I use this. Uh a while ago on Uh in my own life when

59:03 It turned out I I was writing a A grant application to get funding for a long three year program of research and it was due the next day. It had to be

59:15 sent in to the funding office the next day. I'm reading over it, you know, making sure everything is right in my head up. Came to a paragraph that said. uh made us particular

59:27 Clean. And I realize I really didn't have convincing evidence for that claim. But I knew that a colleague of mine in the psychology department where I was working

59:41 Year before And had collected The data that were relevant to this. And he had it in his archives. I sent him an email.

59:51 And let's call him Tim. That's not his real name. Tim. I'm in this bind I have this grant d uh due tomorrow and Uh. I I I don't really have the evidence, but I know you have the evidence for this one point that's crucial.

1:00:06 I'm gonna call you To talk about how I could you get that from you in the form that I need to put it into this A grant application. Well Tim is known

1:00:18 As an irascible sour, negative kind of guy in my d department. So when I called him He said hello, Bob. I know why you're calling.

1:00:30 And the answer is no. I can't be responsible for your poor time management skills, Bob. You're a busy man? I'm a busy man. I have things to do today that also have time. Constraints. So the answer is no.

1:00:45 Before I read this research on How people say yes to those inside their We groups, what I call we groups. The groups that they would label as we I would have said, come on, Tim.

1:01:00 I really need this. I've got this this deadline tomorrow and it's a grant application. I had he had already said no to that. So here's what I said. You know, Tim. We've been in the same psychology department now for twelve years.

1:01:17 I really need this. And she I had the information that afternoon. I just located us. Honestly.

1:01:26 Pointing to a common membership. in something that was a shared identity for us. It's very powerful. Let's switch gears here a little bit. Um what makes Warren Buffett so successful? Thank you for listening to the first part of this episode. I don't want you missing out on the rest. If you're interested in hearing the complete version, you'll want to become a member. Head to fs.blog slash tribe.

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