The quiet reinvention of a $42b business, with Canva’s Cameron Adams

Transcript from https://podmenti.com/t/eceec9696431fc2e

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We now have
Quarter of a billion people that use Canva every single month. Uh we need to make sure that Canva empowers
the whole world to design through everything that we do. And that the AI that we use and develop truly represents the world as well. The real power that we've seen with AI is when you can amplify ideas and when you can take what AI gives you and build on top of it. Put your own stamp on it.
Make it authentic and make it connect with the real people that you want to connect with.
That's Cameron Adams, chief product officer and co-founder of Canva.
I talked with Cam on stage at the Can Lions Festival about Canva's dramatic last year as it redefined itself from a design company to an AI company. Cam challenges the idea of the so-called SASPOCalypse.
Talks about how product cycles are accelerating, and argues that Canva and its kin help everyday users stay up to speed as technology shifts.
He also sharp steps we can each take to get more impact out of AI, plus the power of exploiting what he calls each organization's unique unfair advantage.
It's an idea filled romp through technology and creativity, so let's get to it.
I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.
I'm joined this morning by uh Cameron Adams, who is the chief
Product officer and co-founder of Canva. Uh Cam, thanks for doing this and your house this morning. It is amazing to be chatting with you here in the amazing cabana behind the ducks. I was talking to Cam back backstage about uh
The challenge of this year of living dangerously with AI changing so much and Canva itself being under a different kind of pressure. Has it been uh a good year? What's made it a dangerous year?
I'd probably say it's been an interesting year.
And I think we've always been running a marathon at gamma. Like we've always had an incredibly long term vision.
This yeah
Feels like we're sprinting that marathon just a little bit.
You you said that you now consider Canva to be an AI company that does design rather than a design company that does AI. That seems like a big change to make in a company as
As big as Canvas. It has been a big change. Having a strong bench of AI researchers and ML engineers has enabled us to rapidly move on the product.
And particularly to develop
Our own unique
blend of AI. It's not just repackaging and L L M, it's like

technical research and unique IP that now exists within the Canva platform. The last year both the team has scaled up.
Which has enabled us to ship more.
Uh, but also we've entered kind of a new cadence of product shipping and
To me it feels really exciting'cause it's almost a return to our start up roots.
It's not
Think about six thousand people and and moving them all like the Titanic.
It is literally a bunch of speed boats that are now going around and shipping as much customer value as we possibly can on a week by week cadence. When you're moving at the pace of AI, I guess your product pace has to be faster than
It was. How much do you worry about
What that means to your users like if the product changes too fast for them.
You know, they're not looking for it to change. They're looking for it to continue to do the things they want it to do. Is is all the change behind the scenes, or
How do you get the
the customer to be up to speed with you.
Uh, definitely there's a lot of behind the scenes change in terms of
Mm.
How quickly our teams are putting features out and particularly just how quickly we get it out to our own internal team.

Software company, every great AI company is shipping to themselves first. Uh, so we're literally shipping every day new stuff to the Canva team to try out.
To say if it's good quality enough.
To see how we need to change the experience to map to it.
But as you say, if you did that to your customers
They would be incredibly frustrated because
They just want to turn up, get their job done. So you have to be careful with when you do roll out.
A very major change to like
App architecture or anything like that.
Uh, but you can roll out smaller stuff quite easily. So you can in roll out improvements to models.
You can roll out a new filter that you could apply to an image or a new kind of workflow that you can apply to your images.
So try not to like move all the pieces around too much, but adding in new pieces you can do fairly scalably. And and when you think about the the playbook of how you're you've had to refocus the company and the product.
Do you look at, you know, some of the companies in Silicon Valley and say, Oh, we're gonna do it that way or we're not gonna do it that way. I mean, you you guys are far from Silicon Valley in in Sydney.
We've made I think
A couple of really pivotal um changes to the way that we work with our teams to enable that.
Firstly
It is use whatever tool you need.
So we're not mandating
cord or chat GPT or Gemini or whatever tool you want to use in your part of the company.
You can figure it out.
You've got spend to try it on tools.
to figure out your workflow, your process, and tackle the problems that you have.
Giving people that freedom is really important because they need to feel comfortable experimenting.
And if you force a tool on them
They're just gonna do that very begrudgingly. Um and they're not gonna enter into this
very experimental mindset that we need them to
The second part is giving them the time to just explore and try things out.
I'm sure we're all terribly busy and trying to get
hundred and one things done every single week, and you naturally fall into the patterns that you would normally do things in. You've got your tried and trusted tools, you know how they work.
You'll always read for them.
So you're not looking for that medium term and long term
improvement that you can get through some of these tools. So we give our staff
Plenty of time to just
sit back, put down their tools, get out of the business as usual.
And get stuff done. And uh something we did a month ago called AI Discovery Week really speaks to that.
The whole week we said to people, please don't do your normal work.
We want you to think of the problems that you have.
The tools that you've heard about.
The opportunities that you've heard from colleagues in other industries.
And we want you to try those out for the entire week. And at the end of the week we did a massive show and tell where people showed off what they did. And we had about
four or five hundred different projects that people showed off.
employing AI in different ways from our legal team to our finance team to of course our product and engineering teams.
And it was super energizing. Are those tools that you're actually implementing or are they more like prototypes for things? I think almost half of them are now.
Pretty much in production. In production internally, or in production actually going to our customers.
So a legal team rolled out a uh trademark checking
uh application because
They spend thousands of hours every year
thinking about our product names, what we're shipping and whether
All across the world we can trademark that and legally use that.
Uh and they've now rolled out a tool which has literally saved them fifteen hundred hours.
Of work.
How do you think about sort of
being disciplined about experimenting with and growing and using these tools, but not having it I mean, I know it's supposed to make me more efficient, but sometimes I find I just I I'm doing so many different new things that maybe I'm not being as inefficient.
Personally
I don't like just picking up a tool with no random
Use case and just
Experimenting with it. I really like to
Take something that I'm working on now or a problem that I'm feeling.
And then bring a tool to bear on that and learn through that process. That's how we've seen our staff.
also get the most value out of AI experimentation is when they're dealing with a real problem. So you launched Canva AI two point oh in April. Yep um it's which is a conversational assistant, right? That helps to generate designs
From descriptions rather than from templates. How do you know when you're
Amplifying creativity versus kind of
automating it away. I mean that's some of the anxiety that that that comes around with using AI tools. One of the principles that we adhere to as we're developing an AI product is that we need to keep humans in the driver's seat.
We don't want to create a product that automates everything away, that automates creativity and taste.
And judgment.
And
purports to give you a solution where you don't
Need to interact with it at all.
The real power that we've seen with AI is when you can amplify ideas.
And when you can take what AI gives you and build on top of it.
Uh we've seen many
Dead ends in other products.
Where you ask it for something, it gives you something back.
And you can't do anything with that. You either take it or you leave it. It's a flat image.
Or it's a swath of text that you then have to copy and paste somewhere else.
And Canva is all about
Enhancing people's creativity and
And getting them involved in that creative process.
So yes, AI can give you a hundred and one generated images.
It can generate copy lines for you or it can help you draft a blog post.
But you need to take that, put your own stamp on it.
Make it authentic and make it connect with
The real people that you want to connect with. Uh, so every part of AI and Canva is editable.
Anything that you produce, you need to be able to take
Into a normal Canva design.
Share with your team, collaborate with your marketing folks and your sales folks and your HR team.
And bring them into it.
As a first class citizen
not as attack on to technology. I I always felt like that part of Canvas promise it it like helped me as a user
to have better taste how do you with AI you sort of providing that
Originality.
And maintaining soul at the same time, like can you teach an AI model?
To sort of have empathy to understand the emotional reaction that humans are gonna have.
I'm not sure whether you can teach it empathy, but you can also you can give it some understanding of the context which we're living in.
and the goals that we're trying to achieve. And that's very much what we
do when we're integrating this AI into our platform.
When you
Talk about conversational AI.
designing a conversation, which is kind of a new field for many different people.
Uh but
Designing a conversational interface is quite different to something that you point and click and Right, which is the way I I I used to into engage with Canva. Exactly.
Uh, so you need to put a lot of thought into it and there's new ways that you can shape that conversation that you're having
With an AI.
There's a ton that goes into the system prompt. There's a ton of orchestration that you have between different agents.
And all of that forms part of the experience. So it's definitely like a frontier land for building product.
But one that our team have been really excited about entering and when you see
A well designed conversation.
that gives you insight into the creative process, like an AI that helps you understand better font choices.
why it chose this colour, so that you can then roll that into your taste and judgment.
I think that is the type of conversation we wanna be having with AI.
When you're sort of um
Tuning the models for your use. You're putting guardrails in to say like, yeah, don't put these things together like there're certain design principles that are baked in behind it.
We have an amazing understanding of design, both
From
An internal experts level?
whose knowledge and experience we can bake into the AI experience.
Uh and we also have a tremendous amount of data from our customers as they've interacted with designs.
That can also help the AI understand what people want to achieve. So we've baked all that.
into what we call the Canva Design Model, which is
Uh actually the world's first foundational design model that we released last year.
It goes
far further than many of the general purpose models uh that you have access to.
And it specifically knows what good design looks like and what you're trying to achieve with your design.
I want to pause here to underscore what Cam is saying. Canvas AI platform is bespoke to its users, to the craft of design.
In that way, it's like a window into how AI is evolving to be more purpose and project specific.
So is there a competitive advantage in working across multiple AI models like Gemini and ChatGPT and the like?
And what's it been like to help lead Canva through the storm of the so-called SASPocalypse?
We'll talk about that and more after the break.
Stay with us.
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Before the break, Canvas Cam Adams talked about a year of dramatic change from being design first to being AI first.
Now he explains why he's not phased by the so-called SASPOCalypse, what Canva needs in its pursuit of a billion users, and the power of exploiting each organization's unique unfair advantage. Let's dive back in.
There's that um that phrase that became uh popularized or talked about earlier this year, SASPocalypse. Yeah. Right. That that that businesses based around software, not not unlike Canva, were suddenly vulnerable to
Obsolescence because of what the models could do.
That worried you, that spur you in a different way?
I don't think it worried us, but it it certainly gave us a an interesting
viewpoint to take as we we thought more deeply about building an AI platform.
Um
I think
This notion that there's gonna be
One place that the entire world goes to to do all of their work.
Uh
I don't think it's gonna be a reality.
And tools like Canva that focus on particular areas like
Visual communication.
And visual content creation
will be able to create an experience that is far deeper, far richer, and gets you better results.
The end of the day, that's what we all want. We want better results for what we're trying to do.
Uh and Cam can certainly do that with Visual AI. There's a lot of talk these days about the responsibility of AI companies. It's sort of just because you can do something maybe doesn't mean you should.
W what kind of responsibility do you feel like Canada has?
Uh
We feel a very deep responsibility. We now have
quarter of a billion people that use Canva every single month. And being able to fuel more of that.
through AI, through better product development.
Is an incredible responsibility we feel.
Um
We are very optimistic that Campbell will get to over a billion people.
Using Canva itself. That puts a responsibility on us to make sure that every person in the world can access that.
Not just the rich few, not just a few people who can speak English.
But literally everyone in the world who speaks different languages
Who has different economic capabilities
Who operates on different devices.
Uh we need to make sure that Canva
Empowers
The whole world to design through everything that we do.
And that the AI that we use and develop truly represents the world as well. I will say that when I um speak publicly at this uh this event of creativity that we're at here, um you know people talk about all the great things that AI can do, and more privately
You know, people worry about
their creativity being taken away, or how AI is gonna step in and take jobs. Like
D you have advice for for people who sort of want to stay.
Creative.
But also don't want to fall behind
Technologically.
Can we just trust that the Canvas of the world are gonna sort of take care of that for us? Or do we have to be learning these tools and figuring out how to do it in addition to that?
Well you can definitely trust
The camera of the world to to enable your creativity.
But you also need to take your take your own hand in this moment and in the change that's happening.
And I can fully understand
why a lot of people feel a bit
fearful or hesitant about what's going on because that always happens in moments of change.
But speaking personally
I've been through tremendous amount of change in my life.
Uh and embracing that change.
Has without a doubt been the most important part to shaping a better life for myself. And in this moment of AI.
Looking at the tools.
Figure out how it integrates into your creative process.
It's really important because
No one in this room has the same creative process.
Some of us think in images, some of us think in words.
Uh some of a sketch
Some of us entirely work on a computer.
And that
Is a legitimate creative process. Your creative process
is your own creative process.
Figuring out how AI fits into that.
is the most important thing you can be doing right now. And that doesn't mean you need to use AI for everything. It means you can use AI to convert your sketch into fifteen other variations. Or you can brainstorm on a whiteboard about
What an event space looks like.
Or you can use it to give you the first draft of a marketing email.
And you don't have to uh embrace a conversational interface if you don't want to.
Doesn't have to be conversational and that's one of the things we focus on at Canva is
Not everything needs to be spoken or written.
You need to be able to work visually with your tools as well.
You talk about all these new things that Canva can do now.
It's still early days with AI. Like how
Far along are we? How much
Do you feel like Canvas gonna change from hier?
We are just starting and and it's actually a phrase we have
Inside Canva that were
We're only ever one percent of the way there.
Because
The other ninety nine percent just keeps growing and evolving and changing.
And it's honestly exciting because that means that there's still an incredible amount of opportunity ahead for us.
Do you have a favorite model?
Or are you model agnostic?
We're pretty monolagnostic. There's like constantly froging all the time. Yeah. Um and
It is it's great to have both
Gemini, Claude, and Chat GBT duking it out because
That's
What drives innovation?
Innovation is never driven by sitting on your laurels and thinking the world is fine. Uh innovation is driven by people pushing you.
Um and it's great to have
Fights like that.
Pushing us.
Us pushing them.
It's it creates, I think, a better world for users because they get more choice, they get more innovation, uh, and they get better things out of it.
One of your colleagues said to me, Every company needs to understand its own unfair advantage in this platform shift. What defines an unfair advantage? What's Canvas unfair advantage?
I think our unfair advantage is
Being able to tap into people's creativity at scale.
We can ship
Incredibly impactful features. Uh
Switch of a button.
That goes out to
A huge audience.
Who then immediately take that
And start deploying it on real projects all over the world.
We've got
Over five hundred designs created in Canva every single second.
Uh and every one of those designs has a story behind it.
It has a story of someone trying to build their company, or it's the story of someone trying to teach a better class.
In high school down the road.
Um
And
I feel very privileged to see those stories coming through the Canva platform.
Uh and we use it to inspire our users with the stories of other design creators.
Uh and we use it to improve the product as well.
For the folks who are here listening who they may be creators, uh, they may be people running or building their their own businesses, their own products.
How do you think about
your business differently maybe than you did a year ago? And what advice do you have for them for what they should be focusing on in the year ahead?
Uh, probably the way I think about business differently is that we're now
Closer to the goals end of what people are trying to achieve rather than the design end.
So
A lot of people
Used to come to Canva just to get
A picture out of it.
Like I wanted something for my social media channel
Or I want a flyer that I can send out to my customers.
Now we're getting closer to the goal. The goal is
Finding more customers, increasing sales of product.
Um
Having more impact through my nonprofit, finding more volunteers.
And with AI
in that creative workflow, we can now get closer to those goals. Cause people can come to us and ask
How do I get more customers?
Given my product, given the photos I took yesterday, given some video footage that I took at this conference.
What can I create that is gonna get me closer to my customers?
And that's a really exciting question to be able to ask inside a product.
Cam, this has been great. Thanks again for inviting me to your cabana. No worries, thank you.
AI's role in moving Canva users from being image focused or design focused to being goals focused, it's a pretty radical step, and one not everyone's gonna be comfortable with.
But it does offer the promise of helping us to be more sophisticated and strategic in our decision making.
I was struck by Cam's assertion that Canva is still only at one percent of its potential. That's both terrifying and reassuring. I mean if a$42 billion company is only 1% evolved,
The future ahead of us is pretty murky.
But on the other hand, moonshot aspirations are what lead to progress and opportunity.
Plus
They're fun.
So
Here's to practicing gratitude for the infinite starting line, even in an AI world, we've gotta take some creative license.
I'm Bob Safian. Thanks for listening.
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