#729: Legendary Actor Scott Glenn — How to Be Super Fit at 85, Lessons from Marlon Brando, How to Pursue Your Purpose, The Art of Serendipity, Stories of Gunslingers, and More

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5:23 a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endocalyptic. Me show Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferris. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferris Show, where it is my job every episode to interview world class performers from different disciplines to tease out the habits, routines, lessons learned, et cetera, that you can apply to your own lives. My guest today is someone I've wanted to have on the podcast for years. We did the interview at his house in Idaho. He has no social media, no website.

6:01 And his name is Scott Glenn. He is a legend. Scott Glenn's acting career spans nearly sixty years. His impressive film resume includes performances in Apocalypse Now, Urban Cowboy, The Right Stuff, Silverado, The Hunt for Red October. The Silence of the Lambs, Backdraft, The Virgin Suicides, and The Born Ultimatum. I would venture that every single one of you would recognize His face. More recently, Scott has appeared on the small screen. as Kevin Garvey Senior.

6:26 In the leftovers. The blind sensei stick in Marvel's Daredevil and the Defenders. And as the retired sheriff Alan Pangborn in Castle Rock. This year Scott will return to HBO to join season three of The White Lotus. And there is so much more to his story. He

6:43 has I would consider it the gold medal trifecta. In terms of mastery across life. And we'll get into exactly what that means. But I've wanted to Have this conversation with Scott for a very, very long time. It took place.

6:56 On his couch. In his living room. And I'll leave it at that. Please. Enjoy.

7:02 a very wide ranging conversation with the one and only Legendary Scott. Plan. I have a an embarrassment of riches here. We could start just about

7:14 Anywhere, but I thought I would start with saying That I'm In part so happy to be having this conversation because Even among all of the hundreds of people I've interviewed, if we look at people in their thirties and forties. They don't check career fitness and relationships, but you seem to have

7:32 Fifty plus years. Checking all three of those boxes. It's hard to find three out of three in the young guns who have sort of wide open field ahead of them and I wanna dig into that, but I thought I would start

7:46 With Idaho. Because we're sitting here in your home. It's been a long time since I've been here. And

7:53 You have Elk in the backyard. This is not what most people imagine when they think Hollywood star. How did you end up In Idaho. A bunch of years ago, so we've been up here for

8:07 I'm not sure the exact number, but in the Mid to high forty years. We were living in LA My wife is Probably throws on the wheel as well as any two dozen people on the planet.

8:20 She's really g a good potter. She was accepted to a uh summer workshop was invitation only to the best ceramic artist In this country. And it was gonna last all summer long. And we were living in LA, we had a place in Tapanga.

8:37 So she said We had a VW van typical hippy dippy live out of the back of it. She was going up with Our two daughters. To do this workshop and she said well You're gonna come with me.

8:52 And I went No, I you know, I I'm I'm waiting for the phone to ring to tell me whether I've got a job or not. And she said, Does the phone really have to ring for you? To kick you in your ass to go anywhere. Can't you just do something on your own? And I went, I don't know. She said Well you can.

9:10 Because There's a group of people who are leaving from Well place she wasn't sure where, as it turns out was Chalice, Idaho. That they're leaving On the following date, which was like a week after her

9:24 Workshop started. She said they're going into an area called the Bighorn Crag, so the biggest primitive area in the contiguous United States, bigger than anywhere except Alaska. And they're gonna be doing high mountain this is in July, they're gonna be doing high mountain traverses in snow and ice for three days. Then they're gonna be going down into a little valley. And climbing rock faces and and naming them for the geodesic survey.

9:51 It's being led by a guy named Eric Ryback, who's the first At that time the only person ever to walk the whole Pacific coast. The trail from Canada. Down to

10:03 The barm of Uh-huh. You say you're going with them. Yeah, I was a rock climber at the time, so She knew that, but I mean but

10:10 I said, How do you know? She said,'Cause I signed you up. So it was like I had no choice in the matter. So we got up here. I tend to overdo things physically. I've just part of my stupid personality. So we got here

10:26 And I started hiking up Baldy. Now we come from sea level to here So I got Altitude signals the first day and puke my guts out about four or five times. And at any rate

10:39 had about a week to try to get ready and then she drove me north to Chalice I think there were Seven people on this trip with us. So I met Eric Ryback and these people I was gonna be hanging out with for the next few weeks. And we drove ninety miles on a dirt road to the Cobalt Ranger station where You didn't tell them where you were going, you just told them when you expected to be back.

11:05 And if you weren't back inside, I think the cushion was three days. They were gonna send people out to look for you. And at the time it's probably still true. The big horn crags, no internal combustion allowed at all. So if uh forestry service had to go in and open up trailheads

11:23 They had to go in. With mules. Two man cross cut saws. Because you couldn't turn on a phone. That wouldn't work.

11:32 So we did that. And it was I hadn't been Off on my own alone. With the exception of once that I won't talk about.

11:42 But Then in that situation it was just so Much fun and so cleansing and so It was just the best. And I thought I knew how to rock climb, but there was a guy named Tony Jones there who was a great rock climber who sort of took me under his wing and

12:00 Turn me into five eleven plus plus stuff. The dangerous stuff he led all of us. So I don't wanna pretend that I just instantly did it. But I did do those climbs again and again. And I remember when Carol was gonna come and pick it when we were done, it was like two weeks. And little over two and a half weeks of doing this. I said to Tony

12:21 I gotta give you some money or something. I mean, you've been giving me he said Come on, I had a great time. I said, What can I do for you? And he said, You can do this. When you go back to LA How horrible Idaho is. Tell him it's a tick fever state. It's it sucks and you had a bad time. And I said, Why should I do that? He said

12:41 'Cause I don't want people coming up here. So When Carol drove me back into catch him, I felt like I was Entering lower Manhattan. It was like noise and people and And it's a small town for people in the country.

12:57 This sounds woo wah and whatever, but yeah, I don't really give a shit. Because it's true. It was like the family fell in love with each other again. I had been Sort of

13:08 Living in the blues in LA. Because of what I do for a living. And all that fell away up here. When you came to Idaho, roughly how old were you and where was your career at that point? I was probably

13:22 Thirty eight, thirty nine, like that, late thirties. And had you already had a sort of inflection point in your career at that point? I had done a ton of work in New York, mainly street theater, improv, off off Broadway. And then we moved to LA for me to do the first film I ever did, which was called Babymaker. And then I did a couple of sort of very small parts in

13:48 Big important American movies. One was Nashville. Bob Alman's film. And the other was Apocalypse No. That I was on for A little over seven months. They shot that film. It was the shooting was a year and a half. So I was

14:07 A short timer at seven months. But that was my experience of working in front of a camera. Learning a lot of Stuff that But what had happened in LA was

14:21 Okay. I had gone to universal, I think, to audition I'd done some T V stuff at Universal.

14:30 And I gone there and because of my experience with apocalypse W what had happened before is I would go in and I would audition for a T V job mainly at one of the studios and people would tell me what a crappy actor I was. You squint too much, you're not loud enough, you're not doing this, you're not doing that. And on the surface I would say, Well what do you know? But the reality was underneath it I suspect that maybe they were right. And I didn't know what I was doing in terms of a camera.

15:00 On stage or doing improv in the back of an alley, yeah, I could do that. So I had no self confidence. And then I Did Apocalypse Now. And

15:11 Wound up working My choice. Francis thought I think incorrectly, but he thought that he owed me because he thought I saved his life in the Philippines. So I went over to do a small part and he said, I'll write you whatever you want.

15:25 Because You filled up a helicopter in a rainstorm. with nothing getting in the gas and you kept me from drowning in a River.

15:38 He said, What do you want? And I said, I want to be in the end of the movie And he said You can't be in the end of the movie, Scott. It's Absolutely completely cash. Well yeah, wait, there is a part you could do, but You'd be like a glorified extra. Play Colby the guy who came up River in front of

15:55 Martin Sheet. And I n Understood because of the way I I've learned everything in my life. That's important to me is

16:05 You learn by apprenticeship. Not from a book or going to school. At least I can't. And I thought At the end of the movie I'm gonna be around

16:15 The person who in my mind is far and away the greatest American, probably the greatest movie actor that ever lived, Marlon Brando. And I'm gonna be around this guy. And just being around him. And Dennis Hopper, who's a lunatic, but brilliant.

16:30 And Martin Sheen and the end of this movie It's an experience that will change my life. And it did. I told Francis later on that I got the greatest gift you could give any artist in in the Philippines, which was Self confidence. So I when I came back

16:47 Before we went up to Idaho I was basically locked out of Universal because Along with self confidence I came back with a huge amount of arrogance. And now I remember I did one audition And they said, You know, you're not really very good. We want to give you things to work on. And I said, What the fuck do you know? Who have you work with? Because

17:10 I was just doing improv and work with Marlin Brando, Victorio Stararo. Francis Coppa, Dennis Hopper. And they accepted me as an equal. What have you done? You've done this and this, you can't even fucking direct traffic. So they kick me out of Universal.

17:26 So now we're back from Idaho. Yeah. And I'm sitting watching television. Smoking a joint. And Carol walks into the living room and says, Babe, what's wrong? And I say

17:39 What do you mean? I'm fine. She said, No, you're crying. I reached up and there were tears coming out of my eyes. I was on television in a bread I'd done. And I pointed at that and I said. You're supposed to get Better at what you do.

17:52 Not worse. That's the crappiest acting I've ever seen. I was so much better doing street theater in New York. What's happened to me? And I started thinking And that night at dinner I said, You know, what I've turned into in LA

18:07 And I'm horrible at it, is a show business politician, which is What am I up for? Who do I know? What openings and parties can I go to to network and make And I used to think what makes this person tick? Why are they doing what they do? What belief system are they coming from?

18:26 All that stuff that I really And To this day. And I said to Carol

18:34 I said, Well how would you and the girls feel if we moved back to Idaho? And she said What do you do up there? I met somebody who told me that If I gave him three years.

18:46 He would have pronounced me to be an a backcountry cross country ski guide. And Hunting Guide and I'll do that and She said, Will you quit acting? I said, No, I'll do Shakespeare in the Park and Boise if I can get a part. I'll do that kind of stuff, but

19:03 I can't go back to New York with my two daughters this young. And subject them to the life of a Street actor. So we came up here with that in mind. It was a super cold year. We came up with a friend of Carol's and mine

19:20 He was a commercial director, but sort of feeling the same kind of burnout in LA that I felt. So the two families decide we come up here. And try to figure out What to do in Catch him, Idaho. No real idea. We were up here.

19:35 Inside two weeks I get a call from a friend of mine, a guy named Rupert Hitzig Who said I'm doing a movie and uh In Mexico. The way I knew Rupert was he and I were in the same platoon in the Marine Corps. So R Rup said, I'm producing a movie in Mexico.

19:52 And I can give you a small part in it. You will be shooting for three months and I got like w I think it was uh I can give you two thousand bucks. And I said, Great. So Carol and I went to Mexico. And I was warned when I went down there. It starred Rod Steiger, Bert Lancaster, Amanda Plummer and Diane Lane.

20:12 Those were the stars. And I had teeny tiny little part. is one of uh Bert's It was the Duel and Dalton gang, Western. And I was told by a lot of people when I went down there that you're gonna love Rod Steiger, he works the same way you do.

20:26 He's a member of the actors studio And you're kinda guy, but watch out for Bert Lancaster. He's an old school movie star. Hill Get in your key light, he'll screw you up, he'll

20:39 Intentionally ruin two shots so they'll have to go to His close up. Just watch out for him, so We go to Mexico, first day there, El Presidente Lobby hotel in in Mexico.

20:52 I meet Rod Steiger and I I rarely Openly dislike somebody when I meet them. But I wouldn't say it was hate at first sight, but it was certainly dislike at first sight.

21:05 And then a little bit later, Bert Lancaster comes into the lobby. And to be really honest, he hardly Saw me at all. But he's boy, did he see Carol. And he said to her, So what do you do? And she said

21:20 I'm a Potter, he said, You got any pictures? And she says she has some little slide pictures of stuff she'd done. He looked at them. And I could see something change in him. And he looked at her and he said. God, this I love this stuff.

21:34 I only have the work of one other ceramic artist. Would you throw me eleven place or twelve place dinnerware set? Was her first commission ever, and she said Yeah. Yeah, I will.

21:46 Later on, many months later, she found out the other ceramic artist that he owned was named Picasso. Ha ha Wow. So the next day. And he kind of was like I wasn't even there. So the next day we're on the set.

22:01 Getting ready to do some scene. It's a group shot. At the end of the first take, Burke walks over to me and he said So Scott, has anybody ever taught you the difference between working with a close up Camera lens and being on stage. He said, I know you've done street theater, I can tell right.

22:18 I said no. He said I didn't think so. He said, You know, I'm not gonna bullsh you. I seriously was watching you and I think you've got something, but If you'll permit me to be a gigantic pain in the ass over the next three months, I'll teach you whatever I know. Wow, what an incredible opportunity.

22:37 So he taught me about how to work with a camera. And how to mean he was an amazing guy. He was an aerialist who traveled across the country with a carnival And to make

22:50 Drinking money. Fought people in Toughman con He was the real deal. I love Bert. It was like What people had told me about Roddenbert was like flipper. So in the way home this is a long

23:04 We got all the time in the world. So we're coming back from Mexico. We want to Paramount. To see a a friend of Carol's and mine. That on their advice

23:16 Carol got pregnant. They said, You guys have gotta have a baby. And we were really close. Jim was the director, Jim Bridges. And Jack Larson was his Partner, lover, whatever. And they were great guys. Super great guys. So we wanted to just say hi to him on our way back to Idaho. We walk into his office

23:38 He looks at me, he said. I can't believe you're coming in here. He said you I just realized You're perfect. For this part in this movie I'm directing. It's the bad guy, but

23:49 You're perfect for it. Just hang around town for two or three more days. Meet the star who has cast approv didn't tell me who it was, who has cast approval. And uh producers here are Paramount. And I think we can make this happen and I said, Screw that. I don't go into anybody's office like a piece of meat anymore. I just made two thousand bucks.

24:10 And we're on our way back to Idaho. I just wanted to tell you I love you and I hope you and Jack are well and Carol and I are out of here. So we left. We came back up to Idaho. About two weeks later.

24:22 Maybe a little less. I get a call from Jim and he said, Okay, now I'm on location. In Houston. Paramount, doesn't know who you are. They don't want you to they want Ryan O'Neill to do this part, or maybe Sam Shepherd. But I'm gonna send you a plane ticket to come down here. I think we can make this work. I've told

24:42 Irving Azoff. The music Guy who's also producer about you and he likes the idea. You gotta meet him. I think we can make this happen. And I said

24:52 No. Don't send me a plane ticket. I don't want them to have their hooks into me, even for a plane ticket. I just get my GMC Jimmy, I'll drive to Houston and I'll see you down there. And I said just tell me And he said. A bank robber and a bull rider.

25:09 I went okay. So I drive down to Houston on my way to Houston, I stop off Just in front of Huntsville prison.

25:19 Where I knew the the character I played spent some time. And I'm gonna be a little shady about this'cause I kinda have to be, but so I'm sitting there in my Jimmy And I hear familiar voices out of the dark saying, Hey Vato, what are you doing?

25:35 And I look over and there When he was alive. In another part of my life I knew Freddy Fender. The country western singer. His real name was Baltimore Square.

25:47 And Freddy was in w a family that H everything illegally. That was his background. And he hung out with these two guys who were for real

25:58 Just a layer of. The real deal. Um These two guys were there. And they said, What are you doing here, man? And I told them what I was doing. They went

26:08 We don't believe this. We got our buddy coming out. He'll be out of here in a Fifteen, twenty minutes, you gotta meet him. He's a bank robber and a bull rider. And I went Yeah, Mexican guy said, No, man, he's a fucking gringo I know what.

26:23 Okay. So I met this guy. Who told me? Enough about the character that I was gonna be playing. And little things like he said

26:34 You gotta get a hat sticker or something, not a tattoo, but something on you that says thirteen and a half. 'Cause that's the number that gets us in here, and we all have it. And I said, What's that stand for? And he said, Judge, jury And a half ass lawyer.

26:51 So I said okay. Then you gotta get tattoos on your forearm. Nuestra familiar. I said but I'm not A Latino, he said, Neither am I. And showed me that he had that.

27:02 What did that refer to? Our family. Like what was the in prison organization of Ratina. I see. But He's a dark word too. Mm-hmm. So he gave me that to do, and then I said is there anything about being a bull rider

27:18 The bull riders do That I could learn That most people can't do, and he showed me. He said, Yeah, when you tie off your glove. Since you're gonna be using your dominant hand to wrap

27:30 The rawhide around, you're gonna have to use your non dominant hand and your teeth And he said You're gonna have to do it a lot of times.

27:41 without even thinking about it. So I went okay, I'm gonna do that at least a hundred times a day from now on. Hopefully a thousand. I get down to H Houston. Jim said. I'm gonna make this happen. I met the actress who was

27:57 Had never played the lead in a big movie. Neverware. And both she John Travolta, Irving Azov and Jim Bridge is always all kind of like Shove me down, um

28:11 And Jim said, This movie is gonna change your life. You'll never have to audition again after you do it. And he told me the truth. I didn't believe it, but In those days it was Urban Cowboy. Yeah. And the part was West High Tower. It was funny because when I read the script I thought all I have to do is be honest with this character. I'm not gonna go for big moments, right?

28:33 Because if I'm honest with I'll jump off the screen at people simply because This movie is about oil workers and blue collar workers. Who dress up Like outlaw cowboys. On weekends to go in and ride not a real bull.

28:49 But Um Bull machine. Yeah. Mechanical. A real bank robber.

28:57 A real ex con And a real bull rider. And if I just get close to uh Just close to it. I'll look like a diamond in a

29:06 Bucket full of rhinestones. Not because I'm particularly good, but it was almost like a setup. So anyway, that happened and I didn't have to audition. I d audition once since then. For a part that Not a big part in a movie I really wanted to do and the director said no, no at that point.

29:24 I don't want you to do it, so I went to a cattle call under an assumed name. I just shouldn't forget and got that part. But since I I did urban cowboy, my life has changed. And I thought

29:35 I was offered the lead in some T V series while I was in Texas. Because in those days, Dailies were shared by everybody in the In the business. So

29:45 I turn them all down. Because I thought I don't wanna leave Idaho and move back to LA. I love my life and I know. I love I didn't know how to ski, but I was learning how to ski. And I was climbing and I was hiking and I was shooting and I was riding motorcycles.

30:03 And all the things I really love to do And plus I could really Cleanly. think about and concern myself with the art of acting and not Who do I know and where am I going and I've got this cool place in Malibu or any of that shit. So uh

30:20 So I turn on the T V stuff. When I've been in Texas, Carol had she hadn't left me, but I knew it. At a certain point when I was playing West High Tower. that I had the character, but I was terrified if I left it alone.

30:36 And put it down, it'd be like a bar of soap and I tried to pick it up and I wouldn't So I live that part twenty four seven. Got arrested, got in trouble. I was West High Tower the whole time. I remember at one point I came back to We had an apartment in a gallery and I came back and

30:56 There was no presence of them in the apartment, and there had been when I had gone to work that day. I'm thinking, What's going on? The phone was ringing I pick it up. It was Carol. And she's I'm back in Idaho. I can't handle living with West Hightower. So

31:11 You let me know when he's dead. Me and the girls love you. We're up here, but We're not gonna Put ourselves through this. And

31:20 I weren't. Okay. And I was about to hang up and she said, Wait, before you hang up, I just want to s say one thing. I said, What's that? She said two things. Number one, I love you. Number two I think you're hitting a home run with this.

31:35 And it's gonna change our lives. So when I drove back up here in my Jimmy, I remember I stopped off in Wyoming at one point. People must have thrives not And I got out of the gymmy and I walked down to the side of the road. And I took this invisible West High Tower and threw'em in the ground.

31:52 Broke his fucking neck. And call Kara on a payphone. I said, West High Tower is dead. I'm coming home. Wow. Okay. Okay, okay, continue. And then we're gonna go back to the origin story. We were renting this house with this family that had come up with us. We were sharing this house. We had a bedroom.

32:13 On the bed were two scripts for the leads and movies for more money than I'd ever dreamed about making. And that was that. So here I am in Idaho. What uh we're gonna go back in time. We're gonna slowly rewind because I have a couple of follow-up questions. One is Jim Bridges, what did he C

32:32 What gave him the feeling or the confidence to say, This is gonna change your life? What do you think it was? Was it that setup that you talked about? Done my first movie with him and I got the movie I came out here and I met him, but I didn't audition for the part. There's a director, Ed Ed Perrone, who I'd done a thing called In New York it was called collision course. It was nine one acts in the course of the night.

32:54 And Ed said to Jim If you're looking for somebody a young guy who's not gonna charge you a ton of money It's perfect for the part. Scott Clen's the guy. So I got that part and did the movie. So Jim knew me over a period of

33:08 In those days movies took about three months to shoot. Now it's way faster. And I guess Whatever it was he saw in me It was jangled awake when we walked into his office coming back from Mexico. That was when he went, Oh my God, I

33:24 Something. That he saw about Me He wrote the script for Urban Cowboy. with Aaron Latham, the guy who had originally written uh column and

33:34 I don't know if it's the time, some place in New York about Dillies and Bull machines and all that stuff. And then Jim adapted that and wrote the screenplay. I don't know what it was he saw. I remember my screen test.

33:49 They wanted me to do a scene from the and I said I can't do that. I'm not in the For I don't wanna lose it. And Jim said, Well we've gotta put you on On screen and I said And Deborah was

34:01 During her sexy All right at the time. And there were a bunch of guys in the front watching and I picked out the baddest looking one of all who was a bandito. Texas. And I should put the camera on me and I thought

34:14 Dear Lord. Don't let this go bad, but Here we go. When they were watching Deborah and I walked over to him. Then I went hey.

34:23 And he looked up at me and I said, You're sitting on my fucking seat. And he looked at me and I thought. What's gonna happen? And he got up and walked away. And I went and sat down. That was my screen test.

34:35 Yeah. Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by AG1, the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole body health. I do get asked a lot what I would take if I could only take one supplement. And the true answer is invariably AG1. It simply covers a ton of bases. I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me. On the road. So what is AG1? AG one is a science driven formulation of vitamins, probiotics, and whole food sourced nutrients. In a single scoop, AG1 gives you support for the brain, gut, and immune system.

35:13 So take ownership of your health and try AG1 today. You will get a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs with your first subscription purchase. So learn more, check it out. go to drinkage one dot com slash Tim. That's drinkage one, the number one. Drink AG One dot com slash Tim. Last time, drink AG1.com slash Tim. Check it out. I If we go way back in time.

35:44 And This is just based on what I researched online, but it seems like Initially you you were not born out of the womb Dreaming of being an actor. It seems like you wanted to be a writer.

35:55 Yeah. And How did Acting. Enter the scene for you.

36:01 And I I read a bit about Berghoff. I wanted to be a writer and If I look back on my whole life, the most important Single event in my life. was scarlet fever when I was nine years old. That I wasn't supposed to have survived. There was one weekend when the doctors told my mom and dad to get a plot.

36:18 And what saved my life was crystalline penicillin. I don't know if you've ever had that a shot of it, but it's interesting. Because usually with most shots. It's the needle going in that hurts. And it's fine.

36:31 Crystalline penicillin is like Thicker than Engine Grease. Yeah. So the needle going in kinda hurts, but then The rest of it going straightens you up. And I didn't realize it was saving my life, so I hated it. But that experience Turn me into an athlete, turn me into someone who I've learned to not only live with, but fall in love with my fantasies and my imagination.

36:56 And I don't know if it's true or not. And I don't wanna know. Because it's a fantasy that I If it's not true, I grew up believing it was that on my mom's side of the family I was directly related to Lord Byron. When I got out of bed w from scarlet fever, my bones were so soft that they bent and I limped like For almost.

37:15 Four years. But it turned me into a an athlete'cause I was just embarrassed about the way I looked and I Was in a neighborhood where It wasn't good to be Physically frail. This was uh Pittsburgh? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

37:29 At any rate, I decided, you know Two things. Number one I wasn't gonna be Walter Mitty. I wasn't gonna have an imaginary life. The adventures I was imagining were all gonna be true. I was gonna make'em come true. And one of them was I was gonna be a writer.

37:45 Poet, writer. So When I enlisted in the Marine Corps, I enlisted as a six month reservist. Why did you do that? Because you went from English major to Marine Corps, right? 'Cause where I came from there was nobody

38:00 Dodge the draft. And the draft was happening. I see. So for me And I knew even with a BA in college I had

38:10 So little technical ability and Everybody'll tell you about that. If I was smart enough I would have tried to become probably a Naval Aviator But I wasn't smart enough to be a pilot.

38:22 So where I came from The choice is worth three. Marine Corps. Eighty second airborne, one hundred and first airborne. That's it.

38:30 And then a friend of mine said, Well, you can be airborne and a marine both And then I was worried about my hearing because I've been legally deaf since I was ten years old because of Carly Caper as well. And They laughed. You're gonna be an enlisted Marine, you're going to boot camp at Paris Island, and you're worried about your hearing

38:51 People are gonna scream at you the whole time you're there. And then you're gonna be shooting Automatic weapons without your hearing protection. It your hearings can be trash. Don't worry about it. So that was my reason. So

39:04 I did my six months in the Marine Corps and This was the sixties where if you were a reservist You didn't really have to Make weekend meetings in summer camp. There are other ways of doing your time.

39:19 of deployments for Three months or a month. Month and a half, whatever. When I got out of the Marine Corps, I went to see my mom and dad who were living in Kenosha, Wisconsin. My dad was at that point he gotten pretty high up in Snap On Tools. When when I was born he was a salesman.

39:38 So he went from No money and no nothing to You actually wound up kind of running that company. I went to Kenosha. There was a job opening on the Kenosha Daily News.

39:51 And I Didn't interview and lied, as I often do. Um they said, Can you type? And I went, Yeah and they said, How many words a minute? And I said thirty five'cause I knew that's what I needed. After the interview they said, Well you got the job, I came out and There was uh Joe Jacoby, one of the

40:09 reporters there said, You should be happy. You don't look happy and I said, Oh, I'll tell you the truth, I lied. I don't know how to type it all. And he said. Me and one other reporter will cover for you, Scott, for two weeks. You go to adult education at the public high school. And learn how to type. And what was the job for? The job was cover reporter. I got it. I was not very good at what I

40:35 So anyway, I'm up up in the city room doing that and I hear shots out the window. And it was cold as shit. And I remember I said to Somebody in the sitting room, those are shots. Go out and check'em out. And it was like thirty below zero. It was freezing cold. And somebody said, No, that was a car backfiring. I said

40:54 Paperlock, cars aren't even starting now. And There's all most stuff in life I don't know. But I just Got out of the Marine Corps and gunfire I do know, and I'm telling you those were shots. And they said, Why don't you go out and cover it?

41:09 So I went outside and two blocks from the newspaper at the side of the road Was a city patrol car. Well Mrs. Hockadal, the chief of police's wife, sitting in the driver's seat. With her husband's

41:23 pistol smoking in her lap. And next to her. Dorothy Batadas. Who was the chief of police's secretary Slash Mistress.

41:35 With half her head blown away. It was my story. It was the biggest story. Obviously So they made me a police reporter and I real I thought being a police reporter would be really cool'cause I'll

41:48 Cover, you know. Mob itch and All that stuff. And I realize that You do do that. But you're all for every one of those you do

41:58 Six. Interviewing a woman Fifteen minutes after her teenage son has died in a traffic accident. And you're thinking about Do I get a byline? Is this gonna be on page one or page two? And I felt like a ghoul.

42:13 There is a bulletin board with other jobs listed. So I applied for the job of a reporter on the sports desk. I can't even remember the name of the paper, but it was in American Virgin Islands. I got the job. And I was talking to a friend of mine on the phone and she lives on Long Island and she said When does the job start? And I said In about six months and she said

42:34 Why don't you go to New York and take an acting class? And I went. Why? And she said, I'll be honest with you, Scott, I read the stuff that you write and your description of ideas and action and places Isn't bad.

42:50 But you're Dialogue. Essentially sucks. It's deaf. Nobody talks like that. The minute you put words into anybody's mouth, whether it's a poem or a short story, whatever

42:59 І плава. If you have to get in front of people and say words He'll kick you in your ass to start to listen to the way people really talk. And if you're doing theater, you'll be dealing with arguably the best dialogue ever written. So after I got over m maybe five or ten minutes of being angry'cause she told me the truth.

43:18 I Thought okay, so I got my car, I had an old triumph, and I drove to New York, sold the car. Good. Two jobs. I looked up uh acting in the village voice, nothing under A, under B, it's at Berghoff studios. I didn't know anything about it. Call it up.

43:34 Call program studios. And this guy named Bill Hickey, who was one of America's greatest character actors Nominated for he might have gotten an Academy Award for God, I can't think of the Answer the phone.

43:48 And he says, Yeah, work on this, bring it by uh Berghoff Studios Wednesday morning. It was Oh Dad, poor Dad, Mom was hugging in the closet I'm feeling so sad was the play. Something I'm completely unsuited for, but I go down into the basement of Virgoffs, it was raining outside Wednesday morning.

44:09 Maybe Seven or eight people sitting there to watch. I walk in front of Bill Hickey. To start this. Monologue and for the first

44:19 And the only time I like literally a light bulb went off between my eyes and I thought, Holy shit, I'm an actor. That fast. And it wasn't like oh I'm so fulfilled. It was For the first time.

44:32 My life made sense to me. My proclivity to daydream, my laziness in a lot of areas. Everything made sense Like that. And Bill saw it. And he started laughing and he said That's right. You're one of us.

44:46 And then he turned to the the other students and he said. Scott's not gonna finish this. He's got to go outside, walk around the block a couple of times and think about things. I went outside There was a Pay for one.

44:59 on Bank Street, I called my mom and dad. I got my dad on the phone. I said, I'm not going to the Verge House. I'm not gonna be a director. They were terrified I would go back into the service, which I actually was thinking about doing.'Cause being in the service in a lot of ways Can be rough and you know, all that stuff. But in other ways It's very easy because you don't have to make decisions about what you're gonna wear, what you're gonna do, what you're gonna eat. And I like that.

45:24 'Cause I really am lazy. I'm like horribly lazy human being. Anyway, I told my dad that. And he Took a second and he gave me the best advice I could ever have had. He said, Son, I don't really know

45:37 Anything about what you're telling me. The only advice I can give you is Don't give yourself any deadlines. I said, What do you mean? He said, Don't say if I haven't made it In two years.

45:49 I'm gonna sell insurance. He said that's like starting a race with a lead wheel weight hung around your neck. In for a penny, in for a pound. If you love it, make it your life. And I did. And here I am talking to you.

46:03 I'd love to zoom in on your dad for a second because it seems like Just based on what you've said thus far that for a company man At that time. That seems like very unexpected advice.

46:16 that would be given, that there wouldn't be any pushback. What do you attribute that to? Why did your dad give you that advice, do you think? Or why did he feel comfortable? My dad grew up in a way that I can't possibly understand, in real serious poverty. I remember he told me at one point If I ever have money I'm gonna give it to a charity. Make it the salvation army,'cause they fed us. Christmas time. They had a cow in a vacant lot that three blocks of people used for milk.

46:45 So I'm not gonna go into I don't wanna divulge to but my my dad was involved in As hard a life as you can imagine. And did well in that life. So my dad's background was

47:00 He dealt with really poor Irish. Jewish. Wack. Italian.

47:07 And all of them Involved in Gambling and booze. None of them involved in drugs. They were all people

47:15 My dad's best friend w who raised me as much as my mom and dad did was Uh Black Cherokee Super honorable, super loving, super gentle. But also somebody you wouldn't want to fuck with.

47:30 So that was my dad's background when he met my mom and she said basically If you even curse around me, we're not gonna be together. And you can't do anything illegal. So he left the world that he was in and started selling

47:45 Blue point tools that morphed into Snap On tools. He told me later on, when I was still struggling as an actor, and the thing that I'm sad about but I can't do anything about it is he never saw me being suc My mom did, but my dad was dead by the time. But he told me, he said When he was

48:03 Start doing really well with Snap on Tools, he said I keep running into these men. who are d lawyers and doctors And they're not happy. Because

48:13 They're doing Yeah. Fathers. Drain. Not their dream.

48:19 And he said The only advice I can give you about having kids is when you have kids, don't dream their dreams for them. Do not do that. So he was An unusual guy.

48:31 To be very honest, the only human being I've ever met in my life. close to who he was. It's him. Thank you for sharing that. And

48:41 How would you describe your mother? Her character. What you absorb from her filled with love. Unconditional love. When I think back on it, my mom and dad

48:53 played tennis. My mom also grew up really, really poor. Her dad died when he was in his thirties. But she had a rich Super odd. who never gave the family money but gave her things like ballet lessons and so my mom was a dancer and

49:11 I think back on it, she was a loving Fizical Artist. It was like when I remember when Carol and I were gonna get married and then I told my dad that We grew up Sweden Borgians.

49:24 And I was planning on converting to Judaism. I don't want her to have a target on her back that I Didn't have on mine as well. And my dad's answer was man should do what the woman wants. So

49:37 That was my mom and dad. I mean what I will say about growing up with them is we hear all these people talk about Growing up in these dysfunctional families. I don't have any excuses. I grew up in the most functionally family. Straight out love.

49:52 My dad never hit me except for once in my life. I remember my mom wanted me to take this girl to a dance. Junior high. And w she was the daughter of a friend of hers and I went, Ooh, I know she was Little hefty, whatever. I didn't want to do it. And I said, No, I don't want to do it.

50:08 Please, sir, I'm asking you. I said no. And my mom teared up and started going My dad walk in the door. And he said, Why's your mom crying? Something I said. He walked over And hit me with a number cut and drop me on my ass like

50:23 Wham. This is somebody who had never given me a spanking. Yeah. And he looked down at me, he said Make your mom cry, you're going down.

50:32 And walked away. So The next time my mom wanted to me to do something, if she even started to go, I said, Okay, Mom So let's come back to the conversion to Judaism. I'd love for you to say a little bit more about that. You mentioned if Carol was gonna have a target on her back, you didn't want her to be alone in that. Can you say more about

50:55 The decision to convert. Yeah, I had a friend. Hilton Badaux and I've lost touch with him. I don't even know if he's alive or dead, but he was a Rabbi in a shoe in the Upper East Side in New York, and he was a friend of mine. He had been a rabbi In a shul in Charleston, South Carolina. He'd been in some of the first bus sit ins.

51:14 He'd been in shootouts with a KKK. And I believe he dropped a couple of those. And he was my friend. He loved theater and I went to see him and I said, I want you to m make me a Jew. Why did you say that to him? In preparation for getting married? Yeah. Yeah. I said I'm going with Carol and make me a Jew. He had met her and he so he and I said, I want you to make me a Jew and he said

51:37 Schmuck I'll lie for you. I'll tell her parents that I did it and I won't do it. Nice one, it's not uh her parents don't have anything to do with it. And he said I'm uh Conservative rabbi.

51:49 I don't really believe in conversions that much. What do you know about the Talmud? And I said, If a man teaches his son no trade, it is as if he taught him highway robbery. He said, You've read the Talmud and I said, Some of it. He said, Do you accept it as the word of God? And I went No, not really.

52:07 I said it's I think it's a book with a lot of wisdom. As is the Bible, as is the Quran. But if you're asking me Of all that stuff, what resonates the most with me would be Lao Tzu is the way of life. He said, I'll give I'll find a rabbi that'll do it for you. I'm okay. I started walking out of the show and he said, Hey, wait a minute

52:25 Turn around. So I did and he said You're not doing it. For the Talmud, you're not doing it for her parents.

52:32 Why do you want me to convert you? And I said'cause I met this woman and I love her and we want to travel. And I don't wanna be go anywhere in the world where somebody's pointing a gun at her and not at me for the same reason. Period. That's it. If there was no anti Semitism, you and I wouldn't be having this talk. And he said, Sit down. So I sat down and he said, After me, all of Beth Gimmel Doth and I said, What are you doing? He said

52:57 I'm converting you. And I said, Well you just told me you wouldn't He said Nobody has ever given me that answer to that question. He said if you want to take this on That way. I'm duty bound.

53:09 To convert you. And then he kinda converted me. I was doing an off Broadway play at the time. So he would go down and when I would go to the shoe to like learn about Judaism He was a closet director. You would say, I want to come back on stage in two days. I want you to try this Okay I'm not gonna say no to the guy.

53:31 Abraham or Fraim. An Avraham. This is my Jewish name. You mentioned Lao Tzu. Why does that resonate? Why does his

53:40 Writing or the conglomerate known as Lao Tzu, the sort of uh It feels like an honest Description of Of inner and outer truth the way I know it. It's just Resonates with me that

53:52 I mean we can talk about this later on or not talk about it. You shoot, I know. Do you know who Brian Enos is? No the name I did. So he wrote a book called Practical shooting beyond fundamentals. And it's about

54:08 When you enter the space of doing something The less thought that can be involved and the the more you're just present in the now. The better it will be. Doing martial arts and

54:20 Boxing, wrestling, all that stuff. I just realized at a very young age that if I wanted something to work out well physically The best thing I could possibly do. Is Watch my body do it.

54:33 Not make any decisions at all. So You know, if somebody does this, then you do that. I never bought that in martial arts. Given where I grew up. I knew that wasn't true. Number one, if anybody who predicted what would happen in let's say

54:49 A physical confrontation. If they We're making the prediction. The one thing for me was very clear about them. They'd never been in one. Now I believe that that's not just true of that kind of stuff, but it's true of

55:01 pretty much anything you do physically. If you have muscle memory, let your muscle memory alone. It'll do it. So much faster and cleaner than you ever will. And for me Spiritually, that's what Laud Zo is saying. So it's this.

55:16 Sort of diminishing of the self or Dissolution of the self. Mystical. And for me mystical the mystical side of every religion is not the impractical. That's the practical side. The impractical side Is orthodox.

55:34 It says. This is a whole other thing. And I'm just an actor and I'm not that bright, so I I'm just saying this, but I believe that orthodoxy right now Is under fire and diminishing quickly. It's in the rear view mirror. And people like Mike Johnson

55:51 even complain about going to Fundamentalist evangelical Church. And seeing less and less people in the pew. The reason for that, I believe

56:03 Yeah. Because orthodoxy is not practical. Orthodoxy says take Absolute for real the words that are written in these books. Well

56:13 If you want to save orthodoxy Forget about banning books about LGBTQ or Blacks or Latinos. You want to save orthodoxy, bend the teaching of these three following subjects.

56:28 Math. Physics. Chemistry. Of science. Orthodoxy doesn't work.

56:37 Carbon dating says Two The Bible. The Talmud and the Quran. All of which get kinda close to the same date as the age of the earth.

56:47 Carbon dating says Yeah, you'll miss that one by only around a hundred and seventy million years. Whoops. Somebody lived in the belly of a whale. Well, two thousand years ago, you look at uh somebody as big as a whale you say if it's possible. Biology says this thing can barely swallow anything bigger than a minnow. Guess what? It never happened.

57:09 Whoops. But mysticism says All of this. It's poetry to tell you from God how to live your life. How to be an honorable just person.

57:19 How to have a family. All of which I completely believe. Absolutely. So To me, Lao Tzu is

57:29 The ultimate mistric because In my mind. What mystics and orthodoxy. Or looking essentially at Doing the opposite thing.

57:39 Orthodoxy is saying if I About a Mecca, or if I eat Fish on Friday or if I Live kosher. When I die, I'll be cool.

57:50 My ego will be cool. I'll be fine. I will be fine. Mysticism. tries to dissolve the ego altogether. Do I believe when I die Scott Glenn will be around? No.

58:04 But do I believe there's something in me that's a point of view that's a point of view of You two guys and the cloud outside and Elk running. Yes. I do believe that. Talk about that dissolution from uh

58:19 first hand experiential perspective. Like a mystic. Have you ever experienced Say in acting a role playing you as opposed to the other way around. Yes. Could you describe Yeah.

58:33 The first time it happened was Urban Cowboy. I translated it wrong. I translated it as a as fear of Leaving this character alone.

58:44 Second time. It happened. Was Doing an off Broadway play called Killer Joe. And I just realized that

58:55 Up until one part of Killer Joe It was a crazy play where we were allowed The director. realized that the acoustics were so good in the Soho Playhouse. That we could turn our back on the audience and be heard. We could walk off stage and be heard.

59:10 So he thought To make this really spontaneous and organic. I'm gonna allow anyone to do whatever they want. There's not gonna be any blocking at all. None. The whole thing took place in a trailer. On the outskirts of Dallas. So if

59:25 If as a character you've in the middle of a conversation You felt like walking down the hallway off stage. To take a leak. You did. So it was completely Open like that.

59:37 The only part that was choreographed originally was there was a big fight at the end and we brought in a guy from the opera To choreograph the fight and he choreographed a great fight scene, but it didn't look right. Next to How loose the rest of the play was.

59:53 So we realized we had to improv the fight as well. Mercifully the people in the cast had circus skills. We knew how to pratt fall and stuff like that. But everybody got hurt doing. Fifteen minutes before half an hour we come on stage and we say, Okay, tonight This chair is a breakaway. This will shatter. This is real.

1:00:13 And the deal that we had was like if you came up behind me and grabbed the back of my hair and pulled me. I would fall backwards, but since I couldn't see what I was falling into. It was the obligation of the person pulling me. The kick If there was a chair or something that I was gonna

1:00:30 Buck on my back. The only place to kick it. Was the first I over the theater. So we told people when they came to see his play.

1:00:40 This is a projectile aisle. You may not get a heavy object. landing on your lap. Or you may You for sure are gonna be covered with fried chicken and ketchup and fake blood. There's no question, so don't wear suits that you care about.

1:00:56 So anybody o over the age of twenty five avoided those seats. And the kids fought to get them. Yeah. So that was sort of the way the play worked. There was one scene at the very beginning of Act Two where I'm supposed to walk on st it's dark.

1:01:12 And this guy is trying to get in the he's drunk and he's trying to get in the front door, but I don't know who it is, and I've moved in at that point. Um In bed with a young girl. So I come out. In the dark, grab him, slam him down on the ground.

1:01:26 And I've got a Forty five automatic, and I'm wearing a watch. The lights come up. And then everybody else wanders on stage who's in the trailer. My wardrobe.

1:01:37 Yeah, it's a forty five automatic and a watch. At one point Tracy Let's said Scott, when people on stage, all I see is your ass. You're trying to th you live at this place.

1:01:49 So full frontal nudity, fine. But doing that Oddly kind of. Mm. After the first night doing it, it was like

1:01:58 I don't know whether liberate is the right word, but I realize that after that And Tracy forced me into that spot. The best thing I could do with the play was just let it happen. Just let it happen. So that was Killer Joe.

1:02:14 When you say let it happen How does that change how you approach The next performance. You decide to let it happen. What the next performance I didn't make any decisions about what I would do, what prop I would pick up, anything. Just well, let's see what's going on here. I'm gonna live in this space. I know that I am this character.

1:02:36 I even told Tracy, I said, I know other people have played this part At Steppenwolf, where it started in Chicago. But you fucking wrote this for me. And I just know it. In the way that

1:02:48 that I felt the same way about West High Tower and Urban Cowboys. So that was Kill Joe. The next time it happened. I was doing leftovers. Um I had been in two seasons of the leftovers and I'd gone from just being

1:03:02 A character. to Damon Lineloff calling me up with Mimi Leder, the producer who she directed most of'em. Damon wrote it. And they said we want you to be a regular member of the cast. We're doing the last season in Australia. And

1:03:17 I think the second or third Episode. Is gonna be just you, Scott. All just you in Australia. And I've written the longest monologue I've ever written.

1:03:30 I'm so lucky. So I said, What is it two pages long? He said, No, seven. Holy shit, seven pages. And he sent it to me.

1:03:39 At the time he sent it to me, I was reading this book, I know you've got a dog, and I'm gonna ask you about your dog. Sure. I was reading this book called Uh Don't Shoot the Dog. Excellent book. Isn't it a great book. It is the top recommendation always for people who are considering getting a dog. For any type of training. It is an excellent. If we were her holding mics, I'd argue. So I got so I'm reading Don't Shoot the Dog and the section I'm reading Is where she says

1:04:07 Positive reinforcement. Can help you train Your dog? Your husband or your wife? Your friends.

1:04:16 Even yourself. For example, if you've got something long to memorize and I'm thinking, Holy shit, how there's my So what she said in that was It'll take longer initially, but it's the perfect way to remember something really long. Start at the end. The last sentence

1:04:36 And then the last sentence and the next last sentence and then Like that. Because what will happen w when you get to the the beginning of this thing and you Launch into it for real. As you're getting towards the end, it'll become more and more familiar.

1:04:51 It'd be like walking home. Wait a minute. I know the street lamping instead of the ending Being this hanging It scares you a kind of while remember it as you get near the end and you become more and more comfortable and more and more comfortable. So we get down to Carol and I get to Australia, we go to the Outpack.

1:05:11 And we're gonna do this scene. It's the first one we're gonna do. And so Mimi says We'll do this in bits and pieces,'cause this is seven pages. There's no way you can do the whole thing in one. And I said, You know what, Mimi? Can you set it up so that I at least give me a shot at doing it in one take? And she said Yeah, okay. I can do that. So he said uh it's really

1:05:32 It's not a monologue in that it's not me talking to myself. I'm talking to David Gopalil. But he doesn't say anything. So he just sits there. And listen. So we start doing this scene.

1:05:46 And we come to the end of it. I hear action. I feel my key light a few times. I hear cut. And Mimi says, Okay, that was

1:05:56 First she said. Incorrectly, but I'll say it because I got a big ego. She said, You just had a master's class inacted.

1:06:05 She said, Okay, so Scott, so when you picked up the tape recorder And you started to play it and you weld up and you started to cry and you wouldn't let yourself and you put it back down. What did you do next? And I said, What did I do with the tape recorder? Ha. She said, What do you remember about what you just did? And I went

1:06:23 Not much. She said. You're telling me that so much of you was in that scene there wasn't enough to step outside You weren't watching yourself at all. I'm like, no. And she said

1:06:36 If you can't direct yourself, I can't direct you. So would you be willing the next time we do this Two have a little piece of you watching it so that when I talk about parts of the That I wanna change.

1:06:48 We can talk to each other. And I said Are you asking me as Somebody who has this job and is being told by the director or as an An artist.

1:07:00 She said, What's the difference? And I said, The difference is I'm a blue collar. Enlisted Marine. I know how to take orders. You're my boss. If you tell me to do it, I'll do it.

1:07:11 But if as an artist you're asking me will I do it? Artists wait Whole lifetimes to be able to have this experience. Uh and if I could have this experience again, fuck no, I don't want to do it. I do not And she said, What if I'm not getting what I want? I said, Let's do another take. We'll just do one take after another.

1:07:30 She said, It'll wipe you out. It'll exhaust you. I said, No it won't. Look at me. Am I exhausted? So we did Three or four more takes of the whole thing. And at the end of it, Mimi said.

1:07:42 Is this what I'm gonna be dealing with for the rest of this episode? And I went, Not if you tell me not to and she said I'm not gonna tell you not to Let's just go for it. So we did that whole episode. Crazy white fella thinking.

1:07:58 And all I would do in the morning was I would wake up First in the Autback and then later on in Melbourne. was I look literally look in the mirror and I say, Stay out of the way. Do not make editorial decisions or try to work for that. Big moment.

1:08:15 I had a manager who used to his term was having a conversation with Oscar. Have no conversations with Emmy or Oscar. Just stay out of the way of this and let it happen. So that was When I really understood

1:08:29 Being in that spot as an actor. And then it happened to me again with Vince Vaughn. Doing a series that hasn't come out yet. The first season, I don't know if there'll be a second season. The first season will be Around

1:08:44 August. It's called Bad Monkey. It stars Vince. And the first day on the set working with Vince, we did uh I play his dad. And the character is a shaman.

1:08:55 Fox amenatees and Yeah. At any rate. Vince after we did the scene as written like three times.

1:09:07 And it felt like it was just taking me Vincent. Okay, we know the scene. Scott, will you Be cool with just throwing the script out and just

1:09:16 Winging the that scene what we just did, just Completely open ended, loose. And I went You mean like I used to do in street theater? Shit yes.

1:09:25 And after we did that. I just thought I'm not gonna edit myself or uh this character that I'm playing because of A key that kind of Something that I signed up for a breathing thing with this guy, Erwin Lakourt. At any rate, I just realized after that day with Vince and the key that I had to play in the character.

1:09:46 I'm gonna stay out of the way of this. Because It feels so good and so fresh. And I'm lazy too. I mean it's taking care of me. Why should I work my ass off? When the best stuff is just leaving it alone. And then the next job I got after that was something called Eugene the Marine, which is this low budget thriller.

1:10:06 That will be coming out sometime in the next year. And with that I realize from the get go Just stay out of the way. Both because

1:10:16 The director was gonna let me do whatever I really wanted. I would make the physical but I'm supposed to pick up a drill and drill a hole in the wall, I'd do that. But how I was gonna do it, whether it was gonna be the same again and again, where it would match. I Wasn't even gonna not even think about that a little bit.

1:10:32 To a great extent because I am lazy and in the part that I was doing in Eugene the Marine was beyond the lead. It was in a ninety eight page script. I was in ninety six of the pages. So there's no way I couldn't even memorize I was just hoped that the words would come to me. And what I happened on with that was I realized that what gives In my mind what gives

1:10:56 Performances on film. Their juice or electricity Is their degree of spontaneity. And Complete spontaneity.

1:11:07 And I got this from Brian Enos as well about shooting. Complete spontaneity. It's not watching yourself at all. Complete spontaneity is being in the now. So completely.

1:11:20 That you really don't have a past. And more importantly, way more importantly, I think with acting, is you don't have a future, which means plans On What you're gonna do in the scene. Dissolve and then finally disappear.

1:11:37 So what I had with that movie was finally what just wound up being with the crew as my very small audience every single take. was a one act play called No. Ha ha.

1:11:51 You mentioned Marlon Brando earlier. Was there anything that you gleaned? from your time around Marlon Brando or that he taught you any gems you picked up Aside from his moral behavior, which was Phenomenal.

1:12:07 What do you mean by that? Supported two villages in the Philippines with all his pay. Wouldn't let anybody write about it or It's not in the movie, but There's one point where I killed Ennis Hopper.

1:12:20 And I was working on the scene and Marlin came over to me, he said, Scott, just because they call it acting doesn't mean you have to act. No one. Okay. What did he mean by that? What he meant by that was I was trying to squee something out of a moment rather than seeing what the moment was gonna present to me. And what I learned from watching him was

1:12:41 Because He had this reputation of being Okay. schools of acting that even to this day that when you watch people work and you know which one they're coming from One is

1:12:53 Right. Really great actors all have this, which is technique. You get down the accent and the physical characteristics and the wardrobe and the makeup. And the dealing with props. And get the whole outside

1:13:08 Perfect. And then Do the part. That's R

1:13:16 Technique acting. Most of what you still see. Then there's The Russian school. Which is Stanislavsky, Bolislavsky.

1:13:25 And that Yeah. You begin with the inside of the character. Does this person share my same The way I look at life, philosophy, all that stuff.

1:13:36 What emotions are really mine that are also this characters. If they're not the same. Can one be replaced with the other? So if something makes me angry about getting on a subway And I'm playing somebody who's angry about

1:13:52 Not being left. Money and a will. The audience doesn't know where that anger comes from, so you use the subway because you're not in the other side. So Marlin had the reputation of being mainly, if not a hundred percent, the Russian school. I realize around him he was whatever worked.

1:14:09 Sometimes he would take a mirror make a An expression on the mirror freezing to say action. At other times He would say, How are they sh lighting this scene? And they would say, Is there a way I can put This ear

1:14:23 In the dark, so you don't see it. Yeah, but what are you gonna do? And he put a sound plug in his ear And play not his lines But the stuff he wanted to cover In improvisation.

1:14:35 So he wouldn't miss stuff. It was audio he had recorded himself. So he would do anything. And I learned from Him That part. But I also got from Marlin

1:14:45 His understanding about Okay, so Brief little story. Where we were in the Philippines was it a place called Poxan Hunt? And

1:14:54 I had a room at Pakshan Inn that I basically kept all my crap in. I was living at the time with This group of people called the Ifigaw that were on the set, but One afternoon I was back at the hotel. With Moralin with two producers

1:15:10 I think Dennis Harper and So anyway, we're sitting around The table in the hotel and where you check into the hotel. And a jukebox were all kind of in the same room.

1:15:23 This couple Came in to check into the hotel, Filipino couple. And they had two little girls with them. One was Holding her mom's

1:15:31 Dress hiding behind it. The other one. And I think it was satisfaction was playing on the jukebox. The other little girl heard this song And she came dancing into the

1:15:45 sort of miming to satisfaction. And she was magical. And people were laughing and Finally her parents checked in and they all left and went upstairs. One of the producers I think was Grey Frederick has said about the little girl who was in Dancey, he said, God, that little girl was magical.

1:16:02 Some day. That little girl will be a great actress. And Marlin said. Great actress? And they said yeah, and Marlon said, You're wrong. It's the other one.

1:16:12 They didn't get it, but I immediately understood'cause that other little girl doing like this was me. Who needed the permission of a park. To go nuts. To do whatever it was. And Marlon was saying the same thing about himself. With

1:16:27 The quickening that you felt when you realized That you were meant to act when your life started to make sense. Do you think that was

1:16:36 Predestined out of the box. Was that informed by your experience with scarlet fever? Because I know I believe you couldn't read at the time. Yes, girl fever attacks Sometimes all usually just one of your senses. And they don't know why it does that. But they were trying to protect. My eyesight which

1:16:55 Turns out to be really good. What scarlet fever left me out w with was damaged auditory nerves. I mean I've got hearing aids in now because it Carol Finley, who was up here probably five, six years ago. She just got tired of screaming at me and having me walk into the room and turning the TV up so like ear splitting loud. She said, You gotta get here and

1:17:18 Didn't think I needed them and then I got Checked by the audiologist. Oh. Went behind my back to talk to me. And what happened was

1:17:26 He was talking to me, I'm looking at him, and I'm hearing him fine. He walks behind me and I can't hear him. And he told me, he said, That's because you read lips. I thought no, I don't read lips. He said, Oh yeah, you do And he said, The good news, Scott, is this is not age related. The bad news is You've been suffering this for at least forty years. My suspicion is longer.

1:17:47 So um that was scarlet fever. And do you think that informed Help shape you into what later became this actor. discoveries that I wouldn't have had before. Like When I got out of bed from scarlet fever I could take my finger literally and run it in and out of my rib cage.

1:18:07 My bones were soft, so I limbed. I grew up in a neighborhood that was very physical. So out of mortification If there was a pickup football game I played.

1:18:18 But what I've discovered from Playing sports and stuff. It wasn't that I was so good at it. But I actually liked it. A watt. I loved

1:18:27 Physicality. Before I got scarlet fever I didn't all my friends were girls. I'd much rather talk about flower arrangements than the NFL or And to some extent that's still true of me. So Scarlett Fever just introduced me to a different world that I

1:18:43 Really loved. Marine Corps did too. All of those Things. Rock climbing with Tony Jones up in the Bighorn Craggs, all that stuff I Found out.

1:18:54 was really fun and put a smile on my face. And I don't think if I had never gotten scarlet fever, I don't know that that would have ever happened I don't know, it did happen and Now I'm eighty five and Here it is. So for people who of course are listening to this and not seeing any visual, I mean for the majority of our conversation, you're sitting comfortably cross legged on a couch, no back support, something that I know thirty somethings who wouldn't be comfortable in that position more than a few minutes. What is your physical training look like now? And what would you say are some of the most

1:19:25 important types of training or decisions about training. that you've made say. Post forty. Just to allow this type of terribility. I always wake up the same way. I wake up

1:19:39 I didn't today, oh I slept in. But normally. I wake up Around five thirty. I slept till seven today. I don't know why, but

1:19:48 I come downstairs. I fill up the coffee machine with water, turn it on. Clean up the surfaces of all the tables. Just'cause it feels like A good thing to do.

1:19:59 And then I Massage my ears. Pull them up as high as possible. I'm not talking about being general, not general at all. Pull them down.

1:20:11 And then massage my ears and if I feel any even slightly Tender or sore spot. I really go after that as hard as I can. I learned this At a Tai Chi seminar years ago in in New York.

1:20:24 And I've done it ever since. But uh anyway, strong super strong ear massage. Then after that, and while I'm doing all this stuff I'm thinking I'm making sure that my breath is horizontal and low. What do you mean by horizontal? Okay, there are

1:20:40 Two kinds of breathing the most People like Most Americans Do improperly after the age of I don't know two or three. One is

1:20:50 We're born breathing horizontally, which means If I say take a big in a big breath of air. Your stomach goes out, your diaphragm is working. Right. And it's not and you're not bringing anything into the top of your chest at all. That's horizontal breathing. Vertical breathing is

1:21:09 Well, you see the shoulders going up and And w we vertically breathe way, way too much because what vertical breathing will do aside from the fact that you're not taking in as much Oxygen is it will put tension into your upper body. And lower body.

1:21:25 It also jack you into A fight or flight situation. So if you do that at a stoplight'cause somebody, you know Got your way. That's really

1:21:37 A bad idea'cause you're gonna jack up your heart rate, you're gonna jack up your Blood pressure. You're gonna screw with your central nervous system. So I just try Early in the morning try to remind myself horizontal breathing. And then

1:21:51 Drop it down low. So that you're feeling the diphrase. That's all. So I do that. After the ear massage I tapped my Yeah.

1:22:00 Brain cap. Is this also from Chinese medicine? Yes. Mm-hmm. So after I've finished tapping, I wash my hands. Blow my nose. Walk outside.

1:22:11 And I'm dressed usually like this. Usually I've got a lighter shirt on shorts and a sweatshirt right now. Yeah, and I slip on these slip on shoes'cause This time of year I'll probably be standing in snow and ice. And I open up the garage and I walk outside. And I hum. And when I say I hum, any of us can do it easily. You put your back teeth together

1:22:31 And U I do that. Eight times. And put

1:22:40 Vibration in my vegas nerve. This is every morning for sure. And then I Come back in, shut the garage door and Usually then I look at what the temperature was'cause I think, Whoa that was pretty cool. Like this morning it was fourteen.

1:22:55 And you're outside in short. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not uncomfortable at all. But you know. I know other people who handle the cold way better than I do, but

1:23:05 The humming. You know who does that Buddhist Monks do that in the Himalayas and they do that in Way colder weather. With robes on.

1:23:16 It w actually will work if you can do it in a relaxed way. Yeah, you start to learn Sort of to anchor your cocksicks. Um Come back in.

1:23:27 Then Take a shitload of vitamins and minerals and crap like that. Probably Most of which I don't need, but I do it anyway. And then make the bed. Upstairs.

1:23:40 Always make the bed. And then I do Something physical too. Finish waking up. Today it was baby fit.

1:23:48 In a baby fit. I do not know baby fit. Russian. Special ops do it in the morning. Use your legs first five time and with each leg. Line

1:23:58 On your back with your arms. Over your head. Use your legs to turn yourself over the way a baby would. And then you use your arms to do the same thing five times, five times. Then you rock back and forth.

1:24:11 I do it. Twenty times. Do with your n I do ten times usually. And then a low crawl.

1:24:19 And A bear crawl. You can either do a bear crawl with your butt up in the air or your butt lower than your shoulders. I do it lower than my shoulders. Did you get John into this? And and w what he said was makes so much sense. We spend so much of our time looking at cell phones and computers and driving and doing so much stuff

1:24:39 Like that or like that. Right, with your head with you. Get your neck extended instead of pitch downward. And I do a bear crawl and I Like today I didn't do that many'cause I was thinking about you guys coming over here and I didn't want So I just did twelve, but usually I do sixty When it's warm out I'll use the lawn out there and uh it's usually it's like ninety to a hundred out. This is yards or feet.

1:25:06 Fee, I guess. This is just moves. Oh okay, actually. That's quite a bit. Good for you. So that's one one thing I'd do. The other is You know, like a really brief warm up. When I say brief warm up, thirty seconds of running in place. Swinging my arm just

1:25:27 Putting some synovial fluid in my joints. And then What I've been doing a lot is quick and dead. For me, that's just Ten kettlebell swings.

1:25:38 Either with a thirty two pound, I don't know, the K Gs in the thirties and probably sixteen. Or a fifty three. Or a fifty two. Okay. I stopped doing the fifty two because I screwed up my muscle I'm learning about more muscles in my body with my old age. But anyway, I do Ten kettlebell swings.

1:25:59 Inside a minute, ten more inside a minute, wait a minute, get on the ground, do push ups. Depends on how ambitious I am. I I'll either do I rarely do straight push ups. I'll usually do fist push ups. Or open finger. Fish push ups.

1:26:16 Try finger push ups or This one. Which are Oh, I got it. The close hand more tricep push ups. Yeah, right. Back corner exercise. Prison push ups.

1:26:26 So do ten of those, ten of those, wait a minute. Back and forth. And I'll do five rounds. So inside of five rounds I've done a hundred K B swings and a hundred push ups. Then I'm pretty much

1:26:38 Done. With like Specific Working out if I wanna do I used to do, you know, work out with like

1:26:49 Dumbbell and barbells and stuff like that. Just for the Chuckles of it. Every now and then I'll pick up Some dumbbells just to play, say, Can I still do this? But I avoid that because

1:27:00 I'm eighty five. I don't wanna mess with my joints and tendons and ligaments. And I've discovered that Bange. Work just as well.

1:27:11 And they're way more merciful on your body. I mean one point you talk about being eighty five, I absolutely take into account the fact that I'm And the other thing I realized is that Already at eighty five, my recuperation time is way longer than it used to be. If I do an all nighter now It'll take me three days to get back.

1:27:30 When I was in the Marine Corps, I could get I'm not an exaggerating, I could get fifteen, twenty minutes of sleep. Just tying myself to an armored personnel carrier. I was good for seventy two hours. For real. And those days are long gone. Yeah. So and now also if I

1:27:49 Drink too much tequila, I'm gonna really feel it for two or three days. All that stuff. The one place where that I'm lucky I'm not bragging is really true. is r my reaction to it. I'm still

1:28:03 As quick as I used to be. But what I'm r I realize is that Could turn into For people who can't see you just threw jab right in my face. Thirty seconds from now.

1:28:17 I'm eighty five. As at some point that's gonna go. And if it does that's I'll deal with it. Those are some of the stuff that I do.

1:28:27 Aside from The breathing stuff. I used to think the most important muscles in the body were the butt, the hamstrings and the quads. Lower body, big muscles. And they're s not unimportant at all.

1:28:40 But now I believe that easily the most important muscle you have control mean, I guess yogis have control over their heart. So that would work. I don't. I can slow my heart rate down. And that's pretty much it.

1:28:54 So the most important muscle in my body that I can have control over For sure is the diaphragm. Nothing else even gets close. And that feed up thing over there. I used to

1:29:06 Oh wow. Yeah, look at that. I know the feeling. Forget exactly how the diaphragm feels. So I'll I'll invert myself. And then drop my heels over so that they're against the wall. really gently, as gently as possible.

1:29:21 And why I'm doing that is that I can then take all the tension out of my shoulders and my hands and everything. And then I just start Breathing deeply. If you're in that position You won't be able to vertically breathe. You will not be able to. Let me just if you start taking in big breaths.

1:29:40 You're gonna be introduced to your diaphragm like right away. Well let me explain this for folks because a lot of people listening, a lot of my friends who are former athletes in their thirties or forties could not do this comfortably, so I want to explain it. So imagine there's a device called the feet up. But just for visual purposes, imagine that you took a Let's call it a three inch cushion and put it on your toilet seat. Emptied the toilet of water. Put your head in the toilet and then kick your feet up. So you're basically doing a

1:30:07 The handstand on your shoulders. You can't shrug your shoulders or be very hard. So you have to then breathe through your diaphragm. So this is what Scott does at eighty five, just For hashtag life goals for everybody listening. And do you exercise every morning? No I guess I kinda do. I was thinking when I was joining Eugene and Marine, all I would do is

1:30:28 Well, actually I did do about sixty pace. I would do baby fit in the morning. That would be pretty much it,'cause I knew I had So much work to do during the day. And a lot of it was super physical, his martial arts stuff with Training knives and Stuff like that.

1:30:44 So I'm not compelled to work out every day, but At least every other day. And the diaphragm stuff. I use because like I say, I'm I'm super lazy as an actor. So I got this part in

1:30:58 Bad monkey. I'm playing the shaman. I get the part. And then I frequently because I'm thinking How do I play somebody who talks to manatees?

1:31:09 And I don't want to I don't wanna have to technically figure that out as an actor, that's gonna be way too much work. So Sign me up for this thing with this guy named Erwin Lacour, who does natural movement. You probably know who he is. I do.

1:31:24 He also would concur that the diaphragm is the most important muscle. And the course was all about breathing and meditation. And everyone believes For me it's true. It may not be true for other people, I don't know, but for me it's true. Nope.

1:31:40 Thoughts are Either trying to figure out problems, which we all do. What's how do I get from here to there, what's two plus two equal, that kind of thing. Or it's a conversation. That you're writing the script. And you're delivering to yourself.

1:31:56 When you say that, you mean these are like the stories you're creating. Yeah, so this is what Erwan believes. In a breath hold where you feel stress. Because the stress you ultimately feel when you're holding your breath. Is you're afraid you're gonna die. You're not. Because

1:32:12 At a certain point. Against your will, your body will take over and force you to breathe. So he believes that if you have one Fine. To think about.

1:32:23 And meditate on. During That breath hold. You can rewire your central nervous system. Now that sounds like woo woo stuff to a lot of people, but for me it actually worked.

1:32:36 So he said, Scott, what if what kind of conversations do you have? Are they basically Any one thing I said yeah. They're minor being pissed off. Being angry at somebody to my parking place or making up this

1:32:55 Pished up. So he said, I would suggest that you one of your meditations be peace. Going the other direction. So At the end of this course.

1:33:06 He gave us this thing. I've got it on my phone. And it's what it is is six breath holds. You decide how long you want them to be. And they shouldn't be killer, but they should be long enough that they're difficult. Because as everyone said, Keep telling yourself

1:33:23 I'm getting stronger and better with and because of the stress. There are six. And with diminishing amounts of rest between each one. And I do those Three times a week.

1:33:35 Er one says don't do them in succeeding days'cause it's probably not good for you and So I don't. But I do those these breath holds. And I started doing them here. While I got the part of

1:33:47 And I remember one time sit upright in bed And I yell, Whoa. And Carol, it's two thirty in the morning and Carol says, What, what? I said, I found my man a tea and his name he's a French guy. His name is Erwan Lacour.

1:34:05 What I meditate on are peace. Clarity. And focus. And when I say focus, I do mean physical focus, like a gunsight. I'll pick up. Tiny spot on the ceiling.

1:34:17 And As I'm holding my breath. I'll focus on that, but try to find the place of meditation that just lets me live there. And I started off with doing a minute I think I was doing a minute fifteen.

1:34:33 Anyway, right now I'm doing a minute Forty. Six yeah. Performs free diving will tell you the of record my longest Breath holders four minutes and fifteen seconds. I'm sure that look might even be longer now. I don't know.

1:34:48 But up here. I'm at one forty, but What I'm aiming for I would like by the time I hit eighty six the benchmark for me is two minute breath holes. Those are real. Yeah.

1:34:59 That's very real. So uh But I'm at a minute forty right now. W what I was gonna say about good luck. And this is just pure good luck.

1:35:11 Just accept it, no. When I need to learn something, the best teacher in the world materializes right in front of me. So I w I wanna ask you about this'cause it seems like this is gonna be a leading question, but it's uh Uninformed observation. It seems like

1:35:27 From LA to Idaho, you loosen your grasp on something and then This opportunity This amazing opportunity presents itself for this this career changing role. Yeah. And it seems like that's happened a few times. How would you explain that? I would like to be some kind of intellectual giant which I am

1:35:47 Definitely not. Average. Maybe a little bit above average intelligence, but not much. That's not false modesty. That's for real. Me if people ask me

1:36:00 Am I a good Shot with a handgun. My honest answer is above average. A lot? No. Above average. But I'm a really good instructor. I can teach anybody

1:36:12 probably to expert level how to shoot a handgun. Am I a good shot with a rifle? Yes I am. Can I teach People well how to no, I'm the world's worst teacher. I don't do anything right. I don't get a consistent spot well and I I don't do any of this

1:36:27 I just Been doing it since I was so young. I just do it. And it works out. My great fortune in life And I used to be amazed by

1:36:38 No, I just accept it is Okay, I got into the actor studio by accident. And I got by accident. Lee Strasberg is my own personal

1:36:50 Stand alone. Teacher and coach. The best in the world. I'd never plan on that happening. It just happened. I'm out at the range shooting.

1:36:59 guy next to me was w watching me shoot and he says you're pretty good at doing this, but I could give you some pointers. Come on over to my house tomorrow. And I'll show you what I know. His name was John Shaw. World champion. Kurt Johnstad calls me up when I'm in LA and says You wanna know about

1:37:17 combat shooting that's not military, but the real civilian stuff. L A P D S I S Come on out to the eagle's nest. And meet this guy, Scotty Reid. And we become

1:37:31 We took a course with Scotty Race. We become really good friends and He's my teacher. I'm down in the Baja. This is How stupid I truly am.

1:37:42 Down the Baja. And for two years I've been scuba diving. Without any instruction, I should be dead. I use my BC. At almost a hundred feet to rocket myself to the surf.

1:37:54 So I'm in this bar and I've just spent a day doing this. Oh man. And I'm s talking about it like I'm the coolest person that ever lived. And this guy walks up to me. in his sixties pop bellied guy and he looks at me and he said

1:38:11 You're a real asshole. And for whatever reason I don't know if it was in his What about him? Saying that to me, but I came to attention.

1:38:21 No I should Why, sir? And Got a big grin and he looked at me and he said Okay, you're army airborne or marine, which one?

1:38:30 And I said, Bring her, sir. And he laughed. And he said. I'm here with my girlfriend. I'm standing in that room. You show up tomorrow and give me the next six days of your life. Shop tomorrow.

1:38:43 With coffee. At eight. Forty five, not before, not after. And I'll teach you how to scuba dive and certify you. And then he walks out of the bar. And the owner of the bar, just guy John Irley, walks over to me and I tell him about it.

1:38:57 He said, Do you have any idea who that was? And I said, No, he said That was James Stewart I said Jim Stewart, Jimmy Stewart the actor. He said no, like Jim Stewart dive master emeritus at Scripps Institute.

1:39:10 Jim Stewart who wrote the syllabus. For the SEAL themes. Jim Stewart, who's the only person Who can sign the chit that says you're allowed to dive in the Antarctica? Jim Stewart.

1:39:21 Whose Nally Card is number one. And Jacques said is arguably the greatest scuba diver that ever lived. That's who's gonna teach you and certify you. And he did. I mean so I mean it's again again I'm out of the four of skill actors. I'm out I'm out here in the summertime And I'm talking about what does it feel like to be a bird? Because when I was in the service I never free fall I d never did free fall. Like him and I SF and seals do it all.

1:39:46 But I've done static line jump. So I'm telling somebody at this cocktail party This guy walks up to me and he said You want a free fall? I'll teach you. Come over to my house tomorrow afternoon or hang you in front of my porch.

1:39:59 I'll teach you. Malfunctions and major malfunctions and how to deal with them. And we'll go jumping. And I said Why should I trust you? And he said, Because I'm four times world champion.

1:40:11 I'm the only person allowed To videotape the golden knights. If you know anything about jumping Videotaping Skydivers is the easily the most dangerous part. Because of all the stuff you can

1:40:24 It's all the things that can go wrong. Yeah. So I said Are we gonna tandem jump? He said, No, you already told me you was you're a static line jumper. Well Put a two by four assessment.

1:40:37 We'll go up. We'll use the two by four to launch ourselves out on the strut of the wings, hang on to it. He said you'll go first. I said, What will you do? He said, I'll come after you. He said, just you jump off and establish a hard arch and he showed me how to do that. And I said, Okay, but then what'll I do? And he said, Well jump.

1:40:56 Off. Catch up with you. I want you to Panamine, but don't do it. Panamine. Pull your ripcord.

1:41:03 And you yell to me what your altitude is. We'll go out Hopefully fifteen thousand. And when you hit three thousand you don't pan a mime anymore, you actually pull the ripcord. And pump air into the

1:41:17 sells of his parachute and That's the way it'll work. And it did. It worked that way perfectly,'cause he was so good, he would bullet dive down And be as far from me as I am from you right now.

1:41:29 Like four feet. I mean again and again and again. The best person not like Oh, this person's kinda good at what they do. They're as good at it as anybody on the Fucking planet Earth. And they're gonna teach you.

1:41:44 And the one Thing I will say. And hopefully yeah. Whoever is hearing this will take it to heart. There's part of me that's really a good student.

1:41:54 And here's the part of me that's really a good student. I'm willing to fall on my ass in front of people. The embarrassment of screw up and being clumsy and falling on my ass in front of people. Is not Great enough to keep me from doing it.

1:42:10 And that's the trick to being a good student. Yeah. I heard someone say recently. Very high performer blanking on the attribution, but they were taught by a mentor something and I'm paraphrasing but they said In order to be

1:42:24 excellent at anything, you have to first be willing to be extremely crappy at it. That's so true. I mean it's like with martial arts you've done them enough, so I know I'm talking to somebody The two of you guys. Understand this. Okay, so I'm going to Thailand to do this T V show. White loaders. That I r I can't really talk about it because they're s very secretive, but

1:42:45 I'm gonna be in Thailand, so I called up a friend And Just'cause I love the word Krabi Krebon. I mean it's so cool. Kribi Kravong. Little

1:42:55 Babies probably like to say it too. But it's uh Thai martial art and it's the weapons side of Muay Thai. When you're really good at it, you use razor sharp double swords. But When you begin it

1:43:08 It's just retan sticks. And what I want to do in Thailand is not learn Krabby Krebong or be taught secret moves or any of that. I just want someone to show me The absolute

1:43:22 Basement Cellar Foundation. What are the moves that you need to be able to I know they won't be complicated. I know there'll be something that would Just pure repetition. I can do again and again. That's what I'm gonna do when I get to Thailand. And you've done I mean you've done a lot of knife work also. I imagine that some of the movies do the movement pattern about it. Probably translate really well. One thing you should definitely try to do while you're there if you can, is go to Lumpini Stadium or Rajadamnan to watch the Muay Thai fights. I

1:43:55 Oh you have. I did a film in Thailand J as an actor. I've been in Thailand A few times, but I was there as an actor doing a movie called Off Limits. And it was the king's birthday.

1:44:11 And he was turning sixty, and if you know but the lesser vehicle of Buddhism, you become an adult at sixty. It's the end of the fifth cycle for twelve years. Yeah. So his birthday was all year long. And we lost locations. And so my week and a half or two week job wasn't gonna happen for at least two months. So I said to them, Why don't you just keep me here in a hotel?

1:44:34 Rather than spin first class plane tickets back and forth back. And Bring Carol over and we can go to Bucat and Have fun. So we did that.

1:44:45 But while I was there The movie is kind of a sad movie to me because two of my friends who were in the movie who played much bigger parts than me Are no longer alive. When was Gregory Hines? Who I loved.

1:44:58 And Gregory I knew from martial arts, from doing Korean martial arts in New York. He was really good at it. He's the only person I ever saw. He on his passport, you know, where you put occupation His said tap dancer. He was amazing. He died of liver cancer. And the other was Fred Ward. Who died of Alzheimer's?

1:45:21 But Fred was Fred was an amazing athlete. Fred had a a uh silver boot in Box full of say. Savat. When he was in Thailand he trained Mui Thai with

1:45:35 The people from Russia and Raj. And so he brought me well at one point I remember he brought me into Work out with those guys. I wouldn't hit Palm trees with my hands raised like that. But They they had heavy bags and stuff like that too. Yeah, and Fred told me that

1:45:53 God gave me a right hook and I said, Yeah, I know that part. But we went Fred and I went across the border Illegally into what was then Burma and the up in the Golden Triangle at uh Dangerous Area. Three Pagoda Pass. Yeah, so I had had adventures. In Thailand.

1:46:11 And saw a lot of mate, yeah. Oh yeah. The the art of eight limbs beautiful and brutal. And very effective art. I wanna revisit for a second. This luck because There's luck, different degrees of luck. And

1:46:26 A lot of it's outside of your control, but it seems like there's certain ways you can increase the surface area in your life that luck can stick to. And one is by being a good student, for instance. That increases the likelihood that luck is gonna stick to you. Are there any other recommendations you would have for people who want to increase the type of serendipity And luck that you've experienced. Are there any other ingredients that you can Play with? If you have the good fortune to fall in love with and find yourself with a Jewish girl from Brooklyn

1:46:56 Don't fight her about anything,'cause number one, you're gonna lose And number two, she's gonna take you in a much better direction than you ever figured. Let's go go deep down that rabbit hole then. So relationship. We've talked about career we've talked about some fitness. Long

1:47:13 Durable, good relationships. With a partner. Any advice for people out there? 'Cause especially in your w I would imagine, in the world of entertainment, this is a rarity, I would have to think. From the outside looking in. Again, it was my good fortune to just

1:47:29 Well Completely in love with this woman. How did the two of you meet? In a movie theater in New York. The girl I been kind of

1:47:38 Not really living with, but semi living with off and on. And I had broken up and she just tried to kill herself. And uh I had a friend who who now is teaching school in Iraq of all places. His name is Jeff Siggins. At any rate he

1:47:53 Called me up and he said we're going to the movies Murray Hill Cinema. Me and a group of people are gonna want to come with us. And I said, Sure. So Carol was one of them.

1:48:04 I had never met her before. I sat next to her in the movie theater. I just felt these w I didn't touch her or anything. I just felt these waves of I don't know what it was, but some

1:48:16 And I'd fallen in lust. Probably at least a couple thousand times in my life. And pursued that you know with Full vigor. But I've never really f fallen in love.

1:48:26 Anyway, so the movie came to an end and everybody got up to leave. And for whatever reason I turned to Carol and I said, I think I wanna sit through this and watch it again She said, Yeah, me too. So we sat through the whole movie again. Not even touching. And the movie.

1:48:42 In that period of time It was like magical. We walked out of the theater and there was probably half a foot of snow everywhere. So we went out and we played in the snow.

1:48:54 It was getting late and Carol said And I I was doing a play. But I was off that night. She said, You want to spend the night? And I said, Yeah. Oh yeah.

1:49:04 So I went over and she cooked Spaghetti and meatballs and we had beer. And at the end of dinner. Went into the bedroom, came out with a pillow, threw it on the couch and said, This is a turns into a bed.

1:49:17 The blankets are on it. Have a good night. Went back into the bedroom, shut the door and went to sleep. Oh. Okay. So the next morning we had breakfast and we played in the snow some more. And I was gonna say goodbye to her.

1:49:33 And I thought I'm not gonna even try to hug her and kiss her'cause if I do this and she does one of those pull away. My whole world will collapse. How I knew that, I don't know. So I said I had a really good time and I held my hand, I shook her hand, goodbye.

1:49:50 And then For the next week. I would open my I have a Predictably a little black book. And I would open it up and I would Call a phone number and

1:50:00 A young woman would answer hello. Hello, and I wouldn't say anything and I would just hang up. And I went through one phone and I've got. And finally I thought, Who are you kidding? You want to see her. That's what you want to see.

1:50:13 So I called her up. And I told her my T V was broken and there was something I wanted to watch on television. That Saturday night, I think it was, and she said, Okay. So I get down to her apartment. She's

1:50:25 Got makeup on, she's all dressed up and she's Oh, I've got a date tonight, but you know where the fridge is And there's the Nurse of T V and so have knock yourself out. I shot. Literally two feet away from I was so pissed off. I was just fucking really pissed off.

1:50:41 Yeah, if I had been a dog I would have been growling. So I'm w looking at the T I'm not watching the T V. And I hear the downstairs bell go dong dong. And I hear Carol say I remember the guy's name to this day, Earl. She said, Okay, Earl.

1:50:58 A Bas And I'm w looking at the TV and then I'm hearing the Fr open and I'm hearing Earl say, Whoa you look hot tonight and I hear Carol say, Listen, Earl. An old friend of my brother's just dropped by. I haven't seen him in a long time. I'm not going out with you tonight.

1:51:16 You can see The emotion I'm filled with right now. You can. Right. Yes. She shut the door.

1:51:27 Walked into the living room. And that was About fifty five years ago. Wow. Incredible.

1:51:36 What Carol? Add two. This Genesis story. If she were sitting here with us. What else would she add? Tell me I was full of shit and wrap it up and you got you got shopping to do for me today.

1:51:53 I I'll this I'll say about her because she's not here right now. And I've seen it with enough people And what it is about her I I don't know, and maybe I don't wanna know.

1:52:06 But even with he's no longer alive, but I remember when She and I first met. Freddie Fields. Who is the toughest Hardest ass agent Hollywood is old school.

1:52:16 Within ten minutes of meeting her He desperately wanted her approval. I've never seen anybody around her who doesn't want her to say you're okay. W what is that about her? She

1:52:29 Comes from I think now it's thirty, thirty five unbroken generations of Jewish rabbis. And Israeli airborne or whatever. I don't know. Maybe that's part of it.

1:52:41 But that is true about her. People want her to say They're okay. What that quality is in her, I don't know, but It's there, that's for sure.

1:52:53 So she's funny and she is funny. You know, and Doesn't take seriously a lot of the stuff I do and laughs at it and Keep sort of like Properly puts me in my place. I have to ask and I may get the name wrong here.

1:53:07 You mentioned Gregory Hines. You spent some time. At least as I understand it. A brief but intense period with modern dance, I think. And

1:53:16 Let's see if this goes somewhere. Playing pool with Nuriev. In New York City? Is my game the name right? No, that was uh I I was Dancing with a guy Matt Maddox, who was Phenomenal. And I remember at one point I said, How do I get better at this? It was when I quit dancing almost altogether.

1:53:33 He should stop. Acting. Stop doing martial arts. Stop. Wrestling, working out, don't do anything else, just dance. You want to get better.

1:53:42 You're at that point right now. And I quit dancing. Because I Couldn't go all in. I ran into Nuriv while we were doing the right stuff in San Francisco. In New York City Ballet had moved to San Francisco for the year.

1:53:54 And I met him And he had seen Urban cowboy. And Mm.

1:54:01 Told me that I was a Much realer, better cowboy than John Travolta would ever be. And by the way, John Travolta pretty much sucked as his dancer too. So I remember at one point we were down in the basement of this place called Tosca's, a bar in New York. I mean I'm sorry, in San Francisco. They had a pool.

1:54:20 Well famous. And we were Shooting pool. And Drinking. Me

1:54:27 In a minor way. He in a major way. Vodka. I remember one point I said to him Well you Russians can really hold your vodka and he stopped.

1:54:38 got really angry, looked at me, he said, I am NOT Russian. No, I said What are you? He said, I'm a Latvian. That was the first time it ever dawned on me that These parts of Russia that I thought were

1:54:52 Kind of Along with Putin. were actually Russian were more like

1:54:59 Ukraine. They had their own identity, their own sense of who they were. And it meant something, it certainly did generate it. He was in the Some ways the best physical shape of any human being I've ever been around. I watched him go down a flight of long stairs.

1:55:14 On his hand. I mean he was He would invite me to come and watch the New York City ballet work out and they Makarova.

1:55:24 Who was the best prima ballerina in the world at the time. I would watch her On point. Not coming down from point, spinning one direction, three directions, four, back and forth. Chain smoking two camels at the same time. It was the weirdest world because it was a world where there was zero fitness in that way.

1:55:45 And yet they were the Outrageous athletes. I mean like Stuff that Triple back black belts and shot a con couldn't even dream about doing. These k people that

1:55:56 Here's what they I did want to talk about poetry. Okay. Sure. I believe you've written a fair amount of poetry. What is the and we already spoke earlier a bit as we were discussing Judaism of these scriptures as

1:56:08 Poetry slash parables for living. Yeah. What does poetry mean to you? Why write poetry? Why read poetry? Poetry to me is the along with physical Art scratching on the side of a wall. Oh.

1:56:25 This is one of the One of your books, Friction Zone. Which the most Elemental way that human beings have To communicate

1:56:35 Ideas and feelings. Real deep ideas and feelings. And also because as I said, I grew up with Probably, but I don't wanna know for sure. The myth that I'm directly related to

1:56:48 Lord Byron. Who had a club foot. Was crippled, but Swam the Hellispon. Fought in Greek's war

1:56:57 Liberation from Turkey and He did all this stuff and was You know, an outrageous Coxman and Mainly he was a poet.

1:57:05 Sure. I've lived with the In me. But what happened with Carol was I wrote a poem to her every Christmas Hanukkah time.

1:57:16 And at a certain point On her fiftieth anniversary, she said I wanna Publish these. Is it okay with you? And I said correctly It's not up to me.

1:57:27 I'm not uh I can say Indian giver,'cause I've got Gemanche blood and so I don't mind using the word. If I give something, it's yours. It's not mine. You can rip up those pages and wipe your ass with it. So she said, Well I'm gonna publish it, self publish. So uh that was

1:57:44 Room service. That's not that book. And then During the pandemic there was no acting happening anywhere. And then right after that I had a brief period of time when I could work and then the the strike happened.

1:57:57 But during the pandemic, which was about two years long. All I could really do Aside from work out and Hang out with Carol. was write poetry.

1:58:08 I wouldn't even know if I would call it observations. I leave it to other people to say whether that's poetry or not. I don't know. But the thing about the pandemic that I realized with relationships is a lot of people who are in love with each other had to discover whether they liked each other or not.

1:58:27 And what I discovered with Carol was I liked her better than anybody I knew. Even to this day we're like Agoraphobic Hermit. We'd have no problem I don't need the company of

1:58:41 Anybody. Anyway, that Friction zone. Is Kind of what came out of the pandemic.

1:58:48 And it's not a big heavy duty stuff f you know friction zone is. Friction zone is where you want to be with a big heavy motorcycle like a Harley Davidson to drive it slowly. You're Slipping the clutch.

1:59:02 Constantly slipping the clutch. With a little bit of power on the So the metaphor for that just Anyway, how do you apply that metaphor outside of Riding a motorcycle like that.

1:59:15 Trusting the Your body will do the right thing. So when you're riding a say a big Harley I can tell you this acumatically. When you're driving a big Harley and you're going over twenty five miles an hour, you ride like any other motorcycle.

1:59:30 If it's a street bite. Just remember the following dictum. Front break. Until you're really sure about how it works only. Stay away from the rear brake. Dirt bite the opposite.

1:59:43 Under twenty five miles an hour if you're going under Twelve miles an hour. You keep The power on, slipping the clutch. And you will go.

1:59:53 Where your head looks. If you look down at the ground, I guarantee you you're gonna dump the bike. I like the metaphor. So we're gonna wrap this up. I'm wondering. Just as a way of landing this plane.

2:00:07 And wrapping up, what advice let's just say Ten years from now your grandkids are listening to this. And they're wondering what life advice I would give them both the lessons that I learned from Sir Lawrence and from my dad. Which is if you love it, make it your life.

2:00:23 Right along with that. Be tenacious. Warren. That the most important thing about being knocked down is getting back up. And if you can put yourself in the spot where you say

2:00:34 I don't care how many times I get knocked down, I'm getting back up every single time and going after what I want. That's the answer. I mean again I'm in a bar with Lawrence Olivier. Who created the National Theater of England.

2:00:49 Who was the biggest movie star in the world. was the m most creative stage actor in the world and director. He'd done everything. My question to him was What is it? that you need to make it in this business.

2:01:04 Yeah. Timing. Right place at the right time. Is it contacts? Knowing the right people. Or is it just working on your skills? And becoming better and better at what you do. He said, My dear boy, none of the above.

2:01:19 Develop very strong jaw muscles, learn how to bite on and not let go. I said, You're telling me it's just Pure tenacity. His answer was Yes.

2:01:29 If you're a monk outside the gates with a beggar's bull and you stay out there long enough They'll finally get sick of seeing you open the gates and let you in. That is fantastic. Scott, thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you. What fun. I blabed away a lot, right? That's the whole point. That's the whole blue print and uh you know, maybe we'll get a chance to go out and shoot again. And for those people listening, I think uh a little birdie told me that with open sights you can still hit targets at four hundred yards, maybe beyond. I don't know about well, there was a time in my life and I have witnesses that

2:02:05 Because it sounds a I could with Steel sites hit six hundred yards. Whether I can right now at eighty five. Probably not.

2:02:14 But who knows? I mean, if I could get the dragon off down In warm weather, I'm gonna I'll give it a shot. Use a horrible, horrible metaphor.

2:02:24 Well, I'm curious to see if I can get my ass upside down on the feet up after this of after being inspired by your daily routine. So Thank you so much for the time. Hey guys, this is Tim again, just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading.

2:03:10 Albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcasts. guests and these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun again it's very short a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to Tim.blog slash Friday. Type that into your browser, Tim.blog slash Friday. Friday, drop in your email, and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.

2:03:46 This episode is brought to you by Mementis. Mementis offers high quality supplements and products across a broad spectrum of categories. including sports performance, sleep, cognitive health, hormone support, and more. I've been testing their products for months now, and I have a few That I use. constantly. One of the things I love about Mementus is that they offer many single ingredient and third party tested formulations. I'll come back to the latter part of that a little bit later. Personally, I've been using Mementus Mag38 Ltheanine and Apigenin, all of which have helped me to improve the onset quality and duration of my sleep. Now, the Mementus Sleep Pack conveniently delivers single servings of all three of these ingredients. I've also been using Mementus Creatine, which doesn't just help for physical performance, but also for cognitive performance. In fact, I've been taking it daily, typically before podcast recording.

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